July 29, 2025 • 31 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to talk about the Bengals, which is a professional football franchise based in Cincinnati. Football and the Bengals are both quite popular.
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Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You found Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Yes, what's up? Five minutes after three o'clock. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty. I'm Moegar.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Thanks for listening, and I hope we had like the
most awesome Tuesday of all time. Show previews available on
Twitter at Mullegar at Moullegar.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I said, so go watch it now. Let's say.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Paul Danner Junior's here with us in studio covering the Bengals,
covering training camp every day. There is no training camp
practice today. I didn't know if I should feel good
or bad that I got emails from folks this morning wondering, Hey,
no training camp show today, no training camp, no training
camp show. We are back at the toni Emo Training
Camp show tomorrow at ten o'clock.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So Paul's here, Paul Danner Junior.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Covering camp Fortheathletic dot com, as well as the Growler
podcast daily training camp updates on his YouTube channel. Paul's
with us because it's Tuesday. How is it going? It's
going great, It's going great. Kudos to you guys on
the show. All great review is really yes, I hear
great things.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
You do?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Love it? I do really. I'm not just saying it
because I'm sitting here. I hear great days.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
No name one person who's like, yeah, here's a good
review of the Tony and Moe training camp.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
I don't need to name names. I don't need I'm
not here to name names. I don't want to out
people who are who like it. But I'll say this, like,
it's a tough that's a tough gig to try to
do live. I mean, there's a lot of the time
there's not a lot going on, so you're kind of
you're kind of having to do two or three different
things at once, and occasionally you get something interesting that
(01:34):
happens you could, you know, jump off on a tangent
about and that you gotta be ready for that. I
just I think it's a hard, hard show to do there,
and you guys have been doing a great job.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
That's very kind of you to say it's been a
little bit of a challenge. It's been fun though, because
it's like I always say, I love doing the Draft show.
I love Draft Night, like I love hosting that show
because it's one of the few you do where what
you were talking about is happening in real time and
I also so like sort of describing for people what's
(02:03):
going on, and the training camp show kind of combines both.
You're talking about the team and you're prepared with topics.
At the same time, you're telling people what's going on,
or at least highlighting things that you think would be
of interest to the general audience and setting the scene.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
For folks who aren't there. So, yeah, it's different, it's fun.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
I like that you mentioned today on my show that
look you check on who's the first person out? Al
Golden has been consistently the first one out there. Hey
there it is energy, right, an energy guy, first one out, detailed, prepared,
all those things. There it is. He looks intense and
focused and hot.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
He does.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
He's sweating profusely by the end, like all of us are.
But he's been out there for a while. I gotta
say he is thus far start. I hate doing this,
but it's There was a lot of ways that we
could be describing the defense through the first five practices,
and I described them as very competitive, with a unit
(03:08):
that might end up the best offense in football, that
had nothing but continuity coming in, and I have been
that has been to me the surprise storyline of camp,
not that it's going to continue, not that they're great,
not there aren't still individual issues, but they could have
come out and you would have not been surprised in
the least if they were just getting beat up by
(03:28):
this offense, specifically early in camp, because of the continuity.
On the other side, they're not. They're winning, they're playing well.
They're showing that they have a lot of I don't
confidence in themselves, which is saying something considering how much
that lacked last year. You're feeling that young energy that
I think that they're trying to build around now Golden
(03:50):
and it must be him coming out early that's setting
it up.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Yeah, I mean he's he's not just out there, he's
like doing lamps around the field.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I mean he is.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
He is bringing the heat at thirty in the morning
as we're getting ready to go on at ten.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, it's work.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
So we're looking forward to seeing him out in the
field tomorrow. We've spent loads of time in the run
of the training camp talking about, you know, the emphasis
to getting off to a faster start. They've moved camp
to the morning, added dimension of physicality. It feels to
me and Tony and I have talked about this because
he has been there in recent years. It feels like
(04:25):
the practices just have run slightly longer than in recent years.
As somebody as a season grizzled veteran of covering Bengals
training camp who has a larger palette to compare this
year too, What are the main differences in your from
your perspective.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
I do think that there's a little more intensity and
competitiveness early on. That tends to be something that builds
when you get into pads coming on and some of
the more serious stuff. But or you know, the the
field drills where it's truly just offense defense calling place.
(05:04):
I think you felt that a little bit more since
day one here now in terms of physicality, this is
I mean, you know, yeah, this is like baseball compared
to what was happening before with Marvin Lewis and like
it really crossed the league. Yeah previously. I mean, this
is more of what modern NFL practices are. But you're
(05:24):
you're seeing them find ways to not necessarily you know,
I even was asking you about it yesterday. There's there
was never really any consideration of more live tackling drills.
They're not trying to do that. They're gonna focus on
fundamentals of that, and but the it wasn't about that
in terms of physicality. It was about building competitiveness and
(05:46):
that kind of bringing out more of the physicality that way,
and that guys are just more into every drill, into
every from the very beginning. I mentioned this to you
even back in OTAs in a mini camp, about how
you could just sense a little extra competitiveness out there
than there has been in previous years, which we have
very openly and rightfully made fun of them for the
(06:07):
country club nature of the off season program. You felt
a little more competitiveness there. I think they've built more
competitiveness in here. I think that has come across early
in camp as a little more intense environment, not that
it wasn't in the past, but it does feel a
bit ratcheted up that well.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
What's interesting when you say that, I mean I remember
you asking me prior to training camp in twenty twenty
two and you said to me like, does this feel
just a little bit too casual? And that has stuck
with me for years. Yeah, the sense and the feel
has been casual, and typically my eyes in the ears
have been you and you know Tony does those live
(06:44):
reports with this, and there's always been this real casual feel.
What I have seen being down there for four of
the five practices doesn't feel casual.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
No, it feels very business like. Well, I think there's
a couple of aspects to this one. You get what
you emphasize, and they have not shied away from emphasizing
the need for it to not feel casual immediately the
entire offseason, in every meeting. I mean, there's a reason
(07:15):
why it looks and feels like this. That's because this
is what they've been talking about for so long that
it has to start with more urgency. It has to
have that, and that's been led by Burrow who's been
open about that too. That's the one that really resonates
with people. And the other side of it is their
main guys are out there, Trey Hendrickson, notwithstanding, they're out
there setting the tone. We talk about this all the time, right,
(07:40):
but we don't talk about it enough when they're not
out there. Just the setting the tone. Jamar Chase first
one in the drill, working harder than anybody. T Higgins
doing what he does. Like when these guys are out
there setting the tone leading the way you see them.
They're there early, they're there late. Whatever it is that
they're doing the way they do their business, they have
invested people that do it the right way. Well, they
(08:02):
need to be there setting that tone that everyone sees.
And I think that adds to it. With them there
and the emphasis that was placed on it, I think
it has created an environment where that you feel that
urgency more so in past years where it was like,
let's just get healthy to the opener and let's go
let our guys eat. Yeah, and that's just that they
I think there's a recognition they can't just do that anymore.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Also, for all the talk of distractions, and I guess
one of them is gone because Shamar Stewart is there,
we'll talk about that. They don't look distracted by Trey
Hendrickson not being there. No, I think it's a lot
easier to not be distracted when he's not there. Yeah,
so maybe this is good. I don't think it's terrible.
I mean it's better than him being there. Unsigned Jamar
(08:45):
was a distraction last year.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Now maybe to the average player on the team, but no,
but we're asking about it, we're talking about it, we're
tweeting about it. We're just amplifying the conversation all the time, right,
which is our fault, I'm sure, but you know that's
but that is what it is. When it's around, you
see it, the guys see it. There's Jamar, he's unhappy.
I don't know, Trey's unhappy in Florida somewhere right And
(09:08):
I think it's a lot easier to be going about
your business and seeing it when it's like it's almost
like he's just hurt right now and he's inside in
the locker room getting worked on. I mean, it's just
a lot easier to avoid that, and so I don't
I don't think he is much of a distraction. I
also don't have much concern about it getting done. Yeah,
you know what I mean, Like it just feels inevitable
(09:31):
is the wrong word, but it really feels like this
is this is just kind of gradually moving in the
right direction where it ends up and everybody's happy, so
there's no freaking out about it.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
I've had visions in my head of us doing the
show from down there, and you know, our our little
table has been just in the back corner of the
end zone. And maybe Trey stopping by, like with you
guys that appearing on the air with us as his
teammates are practicing. I think that would be a lot
of fun for all parties involved.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, you'd have company.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
I would be pulling my stool up and sitting down
right next to you and making sure my recorder was
in front of whatever he was saying you to your microphone.
I'm I'm sure about that. Yeah, but you never know.
It could end up that place. But it doesn't doesn't
feel that way right now.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Trey Hendrickson is not here, but but Shamar Stewart has
been at practice the last couple of days, and we
have to spend some time on that. Also, you wrote
about Zach moss I did and uh, it's it's it's
rare that there are paragraphs in a story that make
me go, huh, the Zach mass story did. And you're
writing about the injuries he dealt with while playing last year,
(10:41):
and we have to spend some time on that. Paul
Danner Junior on x at Paul Danner Jr. The Athletic
dot Com. The Growler Podcast is the latest edition out.
It is out the one that I was a part
of you were you were a part of it. Yes,
you were great. I did I did a little. I
had to do some editing. I might have been okay,
you were fined the iHeartMedia Wi Fi not so much
(11:04):
troublesome troubles My editing fingers fixed it all like it
never was a problem. Much appreciated. Sixteen minutes after three o'clock.
He's Paul al Mo. This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati
Sports Station.
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Moeagger, Paul Tayner juniors here from The Athletic and the
Growler podcast covering Bengals training camp, which resumes tomorrow. How
surprised were you on Friday to find out that the
Shamar Stewart thing was done.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I mean, it's felt like it was going to be
in our lives to the end of time. So I
guess slightly.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
The timing was not super you know, Friday night, Friday night,
off day tomorrow. He was unnecessary, right, But it's kind
this whole thing is kind of it's kind of was
a fitting way. Yes, one last kick to the gut
on this thing, but either way, it was like, I
don't know, at some point they'll come to their senses,
and it sounds like they did, so.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I guess there's some surprise there, but it had to happen.
It had to happen.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Yeah, how far behind when he took the field on
Sunday for his first NFL practice was he?
Speaker 5 (12:55):
I mean, you know we're over there watching him go
through the the standard little individual drills that they do beforehand.
I mean, after every single rep of no matter how
simple the thing he was doing, he would have a
coaching point, right, and it'd be like, no, do this no,
do this. You went that way, and make sure you
take this way. I mean it was trial by fire.
(13:17):
I mean he was in early that morning, as thirty
as early as you can come in that morning, and
getting the extra meetings in and everything else, and he recognized,
I mean, that's that's what it's going to be. I mean,
the mental reps only took you so far. You got
to get out there and do it. Now he's out
there to do it. There was no question that he
(13:38):
was swimming and trying to just understand. Mean, at one
point he walked out and there was kind of a
had to ask somebody, where do I go.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
On?
Speaker 5 (13:46):
You guys are on that field, defensive linner back there.
I mean, that's it's as simple as that. But then yeah,
the next day, when you put him in a place
where you're on the football field, now go do something, right,
he went and did things. Yeah, so it's a little
easier then. It probably easier for him to rush the
quarterback than figure out where the defensive line practices.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
And so he went out there.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
I thought that was more stunning than him signing on
Friday or whatever any of that stuff was. That he
was immediately out there immediately being impactful because I think
you felt like it was good to take more time.
Not that I mean again, there's no tackling everything, but
I mean there he was making plays.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
You could see kind of the speed and the size
and the length and all of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
It was a real pleasant surprise because of how the
week started. Right, the week started with the Bengals taking
shots at his agent, and it kind of feeling like,
all right, let's settle in here.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
This is going to be a while.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
And then by week's end we're good and he's missed
three training camp practices and yeah he was. He missed
a lot of stuff not being there and a full
participant for mini camp and OTAs and stuff. But I
think relative to what a lot of us were fearing
where I mean, Tony and I were talking about it
from training camp, where it's like, at what point do
you go even if he shows up now it's a wash,
we didn't come close to that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
No, you know what I just can't get over.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
The dumbest part of this whole thing is the practice
waiver in the off season program.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Correct, like that was the problem.
Speaker 5 (15:08):
Yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with him fighting for
this and missing a couple of training camp practices or whatever,
sign the practice waiver to justipate like every other human
being in the draft does, like Demitrius Knight.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Just do that some.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
Good will and maybe you get a little bit more
of what you want and fight your fight at this point,
Like that's to me, that was always the thing, like
what are you doing? It looks like you don't want
to be here, don't care about being here when you're
not doing the easiest thing, which is signing the practice waiver.
Have an issue with the language and whatever, but like,
do the off season program and then fight your fight
(15:43):
when it comes to this time of yearing and then
get that. That would have happened, Yeah, no one would.
I don't even know how much people nationally would even
be talking about it. They wouldn't even recognize it because
oh he's the last guy signed. But instead it becomes
this huge thing which was just silly, Which is the
silliness to me of all of it.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
First ballot ESPN fifteen thirty Ring of Honor inductee.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
We're gonna up on the wall. We're gonna, we're gonna,
we're gonna come up.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
With a way to put him up here somehow to
honor the summer of Shamar. It's been awesome. It's been awesome.
I can't thank him enough. Next year, in the first
round of the draft, if there's two guys on the
board and one guy is represented by Zach Hiller and
the other is not to the Bengals, just cross off
the guy who's represented by Zach Hiller.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
I know who, I know who You're circling on your boy? Yeah, Hi,
there's a chance. I feel like there's a chance. It's like,
but how how long does that list get? It's like, okay,
get a okay, killer and we got on the line,
like at a certain point.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Maybe it's not the agents all the time.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
Yeah, you know, but I do understand that, yes, that
I would think they would probably think twice before.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
They go to I mean, like, like Shamar said, no
hard feelings, and I believe them, Like, all right, I'm signed,
I'm gonna get paid. I got something out of the standoff,
you know, half million dollars earlier than I was going
to get it.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Time to start my NFL career. Fine.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
I can understand Zach Hiller going, yeah, man, like okay,
you know, next we'll talk to you next year, we'll
see what happened.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I didn't.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
I didn't love the no regrets comment from schamar In
that again, I think he's a young kid and he's
just kind of is a lot going on over top
of his head that he's just like what the heck man?
But I will say it's it's a perfect opportunity to
be like. I wish it wouldn't have gotten as ugly
as it did, but I but we had to fight
(17:34):
for what we had to fight for. Like that's an
easy instead it's no regrets. I want to pit bowl,
you know, as my dog. And that's fine. You know,
that's fine. Everybody handles it their own way. I think
that would have been a good chance to go a
little bit further. But nobody cares what he said about
I'm all football now. I want to play football. I
(17:54):
want to be here. Yeah that's all. That's more than enough.
Nobody cares about the rest of it. But I'm sure
that might have resonated a little bit more if he
had a little regret.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Four things that mattered from Week one. One of the
four Jermaine Burton, see you did is this are you
setting this up for? After the breaker? Am I supposed
to respond to this?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Now? That was a little vague. Have we got two minutes? Okay,
what are you doing?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
What I had said to you months ago was like,
there's gonna be a point where you start to write
and this This wasn't a full on Jermaine Burton piece,
but it was a list. There are four things that
mattered I did. So this is what made me happy
to read this. First of all, Jermaine Burton's not making
news for doing the wrong thing. Secondly, what you're far
more trained. I saw match what I was watching while
(18:39):
we were down there, which was Jermaine Burton looking the
part of a quality NFL wide receiver, developing trust with
his quarterback.
Speaker 5 (18:46):
Yeah, in my notes multiple times each day for making
some kind of a play, and I'm not seeking out
just literally writing, oh nice play by who was that?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Eighty one? Okay?
Speaker 5 (18:56):
The back shoulder the early practice, one of the early
practices of maybe day two, Burrow throwing a back shoulder
to Burton that he comes down with the ultimate trust
throw for him, the ultimate thing of got to believe
in you that you're gonna be there, and that shows
that you're coming a long way with your quarterback with
this quarterback, I should say, he went to him and
(19:18):
he caught it and he came down with it. Next thing,
you know, you see him making a few plays. He
had three on the three on my sheet one day,
winning one on one battles, going and making a play
you know, in the ends on a fifty to fifty ball.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
That stuff. That stuff matters.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
He's not there yet, right like I think, I think
they'd still like to see more detail. But again, all
he can do is be there and be consistent. And
he's going to get a lot of opportunity in the
preseason to prove that he can go out there and
do it all on the fly and be ready for that.
And he's he's earned that opportunity right now, and so
(19:53):
we'll see what he does with it.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah, next Thursday, he's going to be on the field
a lot some capacity, and he's gonna have a chance
to somewhat significantly shift the narrative about him.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
Let's hope between now and then it doesn't end up
where we're sitting there and it's it's five minutes ago
in the fourth quarter and.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
He isn't in yet.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
But that'll tell us all we need to know you,
I know wants to relive that again. That'll tell us
everything we need to know, is that, like you know,
ten o'clock, Jermaine Burton is just trotting out onto the
field for the first time in Philadelphia. Week from Thursday,
follow the snaps, we have to talk about a player
at the Bengals didn't sign and a guy who is
back who played last year with a broken neck.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
It is three point thirty. He's Paul Danner Junior on
my legger. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
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SINCY three sixty with Tony Pike. If we want to
move on for doctor Keith Goring and Austin Elmore.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I think you should continue. Let me keep going.
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Though SINCY three sixty tomorrow which twelve noons on ESPN
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(21:53):
going to pitch tonight four innings scheduled for the Louisville
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Florence y'all's at Windy City tonight. Bengal's not practicing today.
They're back in the practice field tomorrow morning at ten am.
It is open to the public and we'll have the
Ae dorn Window, Tony and Moe training camp show all throughout.
(22:14):
Paul Danner Junior is here for another few minutes. The
Noah fan thing came and went. Didn't sign his heads.
That ship is sailed. No, no possibility.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
I think when Noah came in, the conversation was what
do you want to do? And he wanted to do
a little tour. He wanted to have a better feel
for his options and literally go to each place. Yeah,
so he's in Miami now, went to New Orleans, was
here first. But I think the Bengals loved what happened
when he was here. I think they were really interested. Okay,
(22:45):
I think they felt like he was going to be
a fit. It's just a matter of okay, when he
comes back to figure it all out where he lands
on where he wants to go and you know, if
it's a money thing, if it's a football fit thing,
he got to figure that out. But I think he
just wanted to gather it all first and then come back.
But I felt like the Bengals felt like they had
(23:07):
a chance and liked the idea of it.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
How concerning is the Lucas Patrick injury? Not much?
Speaker 5 (23:13):
Yeah, I mean I think you know, he's been around.
It's not like I think it'd be different, the same
way we talked about Shamar Stewart versus Trey Henkerson, Like
it's it's different if you if this happened a dyl unfairchild,
I'd be really concerned if you did to miss a
week or two. Right, he needs all of these reps.
Lucas Patrick has been in this league. Right, he knows
what he's doing. He went through the whole offseason program
(23:34):
starting where he's gone through the call, has developed a
lot of that chemistry. He shouldn't have any problem. It's
just a matter of you don't want to linger, uh,
just get fully healed. But I don't think you're worried
about the mental side of it. With somebody like that,
he can, he can step in and play. That's kind
of the reason he's here.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Zach Moss is currently on the non football injury list.
He wrote extensively about Zach who broke his neck last year.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, in three places in his C six.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Play football ever again, it's healed. Yeah, broken neck, broken neck,
I mean yeah, and it was. I mean he basically
feels like he played through some version of it for
eight weeks last year because he said, you know, they
they didn't they got work done after he played against
the Eagles and couldn't feel three of his fingers. Uh huh,
and he's like, okay, something before that, he just thought
(24:22):
his neck was sore and that was really all and so.
But he said he traced that back to all the
way the week one. So he feels like, looking back
on it, that he played for eight weeks essentially probably
a broken neck, but not knowing that. They didn't really
get it totally diagnosed until after he went through the
game where he couldn't feel things, and then they did
all the work and they see it on that Friday
where they were stunn.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
He's like, everyone was stunned. I was stunned. Doctors were stunned.
Everybody was stunned to find out that was the case.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
This is like football in every way. This is the
brutality of football. It's not just the physical, it's the
mental aspect of having to know you broke your neck. Yeah,
and now you got to go step up into the
A gap again? Like that is hard. I I don't
you know, I've been you know, I talked to Zach
about this, Zach Moss about this, and Justin Hill running
(25:09):
back coach, and a few other people, and every time
I talked to him, I said, yeah, I am not
wired like anybody here the moment something like that happened.
I have a He has a wife, a two year old,
and a two month old at home in Utah right now.
It's the first time he's ever gone to camp without
his wife or his family with him, and he came
back here leaving them knowing I'm gonna go still try
(25:31):
to play football after what happened last year. Like to me,
that is that's you have to be wired differently to
play that game. You have to be wired differently to
think that way and make that decision. But he's nowhere
near in a place I don't think physically in terms
of his conditioning or you know, I don't know. I
think mentally. He sounds like he's trying to work some
(25:52):
through some things when you talk to him a little bit.
But he wants to play. He says, I'm here. I
wouldn't have left my family behind if I didn't want
to play. The question is canny and I don't know.
It certainly feels like he's got a long way to
go to get to that point where you can say, yeah, Zach,
Zach Moss can play well.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
The entire time I read your piece, I'm like screaming
at it, going, Zach, just go walk away.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
It's okay. Your kids.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
Man, he's made over nine million dollars as a pro.
He's got a great family at home, and he has,
you know, done an incredible job of setting them up
for life.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
It's okay.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
But that's hard, Like you know, when you are defined
by something, ye to have to to be forced to
walk away from it, that is hard. I've always been
fascinated by how players walk away because it's never easy.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
It rarely ever goes well. It always has.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
People saying what are you doing in some way that
it's being handled. It's so hard when that's your life.
You're a football player. People know me as a football player,
and him people know me as the tough football player.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
That's Zach. I want to know, is the dad?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I feel the.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
Same way, and that's why I must have asked him
three times in that interview, are you want to play?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Though? Like you want to you wanna play?
Speaker 5 (27:12):
And he kept saying yeah, I want to play, and
and you know, I guess Kudo's tom on that, but
I feel like that would scare me so much. I
can't imagine how hard that is to deal with the
idea of going back out there again. But we'll, you know,
we'll see what's happening. For now, he's just doing conditioning
on the side.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Yeah, obviously we're all rooting for him, but there's a
part of me that wishes the person who cleared him
just went, yeah, look, man, not cleared. Sorry, I'm taking
it out of your hands. Yeah, but he is, and
I hope. Look, the bones are healed if that's the
doctor's job.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
The doctor's job is not to say now, a psychiatrist
or whoever you know.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I mean, I don't mean that joke.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
I mean, they would be the ones to say, I
don't think you're there yet. But in terms of in
terms of the bones are healed, you are.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
You do not have.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Neck right, right, That's that's the current diagnosis. And so
he's here trying to get the rest of it back together.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Man, it's hard.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
It's it's a good read. It's an emotional one, and
you could I could feel for him. Yeah, and we're
all rooting for him for obvious reasons, But man, I don't.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Know, dude.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
Yeah, I mean, in so many ways, it does feel
that way like it's it it's it feels in some
ways like he's just fighting to hang on to something,
the idea that it will click and it'll and he'll
be able to get back into shape and be able
to be the same guy again. But that that just,
you know, you can tell, it just feels a long
way off right now.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
All right, Well, read that piece at the Athletic dot
Com Paul Danner Junior. Listen to the Growler podcast. Typically
we have you for an hour, but we have training
camp reports from Tony pie.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
Is Tony under a tent down there right now. He's
down there at the stadium, Yeah, under a tent. Al
Golden's there, Al Golden's walking laps.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
They're working on the field right now and getting things
ready for ten o'clock tomorrow. But you know, our training
camp coverage has no bounds, So just because there's no
training camp today doesn't mean we're not giving you the
latest from training camp.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Always exhaustive. I appreciate it. It's very very thorough.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
Tony is is just crushing it. He is, I mean unbelievable.
I mean because to not only do that, but then
to go right into Sincy three sixty. Yeah, and keep
it rolling to bait. I mean that's a lot of
that's a lot of talk about training. He's there starting
at ten am. Yeah, does the show with me till noon.
I get a little bit of a break, like I
can recharge my batteries, get something to you know. My
(29:36):
guy's there till three and then has to do live
training camp reports on two different radio stations between three
and six.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Man's a machine, an absolute machine, no question. But it
gives you a little bit of a respite so you
can leave now. I mean, you're more than walking to
stick around.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
I mean I maybe I will. I mean I am
an ice Cubes chair. That is the chair that ice
Cubes had. I tell you I didn't want to sit
in at me, not knowing that ice Cube had sat
in it already. I don't feel like I'm worthy now
that I know that it's been blessed by royalty.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
I told you before you sat down, that seats for
two people, yourself and for ice Cube. And that's and
that's pretty much it. Ice Cube was in here in studio.
Was awesome.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
The only time I've ever been referenced as is an
equal in any way to ice.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Ice Cube was in the building, took pictures with people.
But he was here on a Friday, and you know
our building, a lot of folks like to work from
home on Friday, So it was great coming in yesterday.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
And folks, we didn't tell me ice Cube.
Speaker 7 (30:33):
Was coming, Like, I don't know. Maybe if you were
here on a Friday, happens on you would come to work.
You would know that ice Cube is here. Yeah, not
my responsibility to tell you. So you know what, come
to work, good things can happen. Paul, Thanks very much.
Paul Danner, Junior at the Athletic dot com.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
In the Growlar podcast, Tony Pike with a live training
camp report even though there's no training camp today.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Next Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the.
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You found Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Yes, what's up? Five minutes after three o'clock. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty. I'm Moegar.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Thanks for listening, and I hope we had like the
most awesome Tuesday of all time. Show previews available on
Twitter at Mullegar at Moullegar.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I said, so go watch it now. Let's say.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Paul Danner Junior's here with us in studio covering the Bengals,
covering training camp every day. There is no training camp
practice today. I didn't know if I should feel good
or bad that I got emails from folks this morning wondering, Hey,
no training camp show today, no training camp, no training
camp show. We are back at the toni Emo Training
Camp show tomorrow at ten o'clock.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So Paul's here, Paul Danner Junior.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Covering camp Fortheathletic dot com, as well as the Growler
podcast daily training camp updates on his YouTube channel. Paul's
with us because it's Tuesday. How is it going? It's
going great, It's going great. Kudos to you guys on
the show. All great review is really yes, I hear
great things.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
You do?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Love it? I do really. I'm not just saying it
because I'm sitting here. I hear great days.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
No name one person who's like, yeah, here's a good
review of the Tony and Moe training camp.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
I don't need to name names. I don't need I'm
not here to name names. I don't want to out
people who are who like it. But I'll say this, like,
it's a tough that's a tough gig to try to
do live. I mean, there's a lot of the time
there's not a lot going on, so you're kind of
you're kind of having to do two or three different
things at once, and occasionally you get something interesting that
(01:34):
happens you could, you know, jump off on a tangent
about and that you gotta be ready for that. I
just I think it's a hard, hard show to do there,
and you guys have been doing a great job.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
That's very kind of you to say it's been a
little bit of a challenge. It's been fun though, because
it's like I always say, I love doing the Draft show.
I love Draft Night, like I love hosting that show
because it's one of the few you do where what
you were talking about is happening in real time and
I also so like sort of describing for people what's
(02:03):
going on, and the training camp show kind of combines both.
You're talking about the team and you're prepared with topics.
At the same time, you're telling people what's going on,
or at least highlighting things that you think would be
of interest to the general audience and setting the scene.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
For folks who aren't there. So, yeah, it's different, it's fun.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
I like that you mentioned today on my show that
look you check on who's the first person out? Al
Golden has been consistently the first one out there. Hey
there it is energy, right, an energy guy, first one out, detailed, prepared,
all those things. There it is. He looks intense and
focused and hot.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
He does.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
He's sweating profusely by the end, like all of us are.
But he's been out there for a while. I gotta
say he is thus far start. I hate doing this,
but it's There was a lot of ways that we
could be describing the defense through the first five practices,
and I described them as very competitive, with a unit
(03:08):
that might end up the best offense in football, that
had nothing but continuity coming in, and I have been
that has been to me the surprise storyline of camp,
not that it's going to continue, not that they're great,
not there aren't still individual issues, but they could have
come out and you would have not been surprised in
the least if they were just getting beat up by
(03:28):
this offense, specifically early in camp, because of the continuity.
On the other side, they're not. They're winning, they're playing well.
They're showing that they have a lot of I don't
confidence in themselves, which is saying something considering how much
that lacked last year. You're feeling that young energy that
I think that they're trying to build around now Golden
(03:50):
and it must be him coming out early that's setting
it up.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Yeah, I mean he's he's not just out there, he's
like doing lamps around the field.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I mean he is.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
He is bringing the heat at thirty in the morning
as we're getting ready to go on at ten.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, it's work.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
So we're looking forward to seeing him out in the
field tomorrow. We've spent loads of time in the run
of the training camp talking about, you know, the emphasis
to getting off to a faster start. They've moved camp
to the morning, added dimension of physicality. It feels to
me and Tony and I have talked about this because
he has been there in recent years. It feels like
(04:25):
the practices just have run slightly longer than in recent years.
As somebody as a season grizzled veteran of covering Bengals
training camp who has a larger palette to compare this
year too, What are the main differences in your from
your perspective.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
I do think that there's a little more intensity and
competitiveness early on. That tends to be something that builds
when you get into pads coming on and some of
the more serious stuff. But or you know, the the
field drills where it's truly just offense defense calling place.
(05:04):
I think you felt that a little bit more since
day one here now in terms of physicality, this is
I mean, you know, yeah, this is like baseball compared
to what was happening before with Marvin Lewis and like
it really crossed the league. Yeah previously. I mean, this
is more of what modern NFL practices are. But you're
(05:24):
you're seeing them find ways to not necessarily you know,
I even was asking you about it yesterday. There's there
was never really any consideration of more live tackling drills.
They're not trying to do that. They're gonna focus on
fundamentals of that, and but the it wasn't about that
in terms of physicality. It was about building competitiveness and
(05:46):
that kind of bringing out more of the physicality that way,
and that guys are just more into every drill, into
every from the very beginning. I mentioned this to you
even back in OTAs in a mini camp, about how
you could just sense a little extra competitiveness out there
than there has been in previous years, which we have
very openly and rightfully made fun of them for the
(06:07):
country club nature of the off season program. You felt
a little more competitiveness there. I think they've built more
competitiveness in here. I think that has come across early
in camp as a little more intense environment, not that
it wasn't in the past, but it does feel a
bit ratcheted up that well.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
What's interesting when you say that, I mean I remember
you asking me prior to training camp in twenty twenty
two and you said to me like, does this feel
just a little bit too casual? And that has stuck
with me for years. Yeah, the sense and the feel
has been casual, and typically my eyes in the ears
have been you and you know Tony does those live
(06:44):
reports with this, and there's always been this real casual feel.
What I have seen being down there for four of
the five practices doesn't feel casual.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
No, it feels very business like. Well, I think there's
a couple of aspects to this one. You get what
you emphasize, and they have not shied away from emphasizing
the need for it to not feel casual immediately the
entire offseason, in every meeting. I mean, there's a reason
(07:15):
why it looks and feels like this. That's because this
is what they've been talking about for so long that
it has to start with more urgency. It has to
have that, and that's been led by Burrow who's been
open about that too. That's the one that really resonates
with people. And the other side of it is their
main guys are out there, Trey Hendrickson, notwithstanding, they're out
there setting the tone. We talk about this all the time, right,
(07:40):
but we don't talk about it enough when they're not
out there. Just the setting the tone. Jamar Chase first
one in the drill, working harder than anybody. T Higgins
doing what he does. Like when these guys are out
there setting the tone leading the way you see them.
They're there early, they're there late. Whatever it is that
they're doing the way they do their business, they have
invested people that do it the right way. Well, they
(08:02):
need to be there setting that tone that everyone sees.
And I think that adds to it. With them there
and the emphasis that was placed on it, I think
it has created an environment where that you feel that
urgency more so in past years where it was like,
let's just get healthy to the opener and let's go
let our guys eat. Yeah, and that's just that they
I think there's a recognition they can't just do that anymore.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Also, for all the talk of distractions, and I guess
one of them is gone because Shamar Stewart is there,
we'll talk about that. They don't look distracted by Trey
Hendrickson not being there. No, I think it's a lot
easier to not be distracted when he's not there. Yeah,
so maybe this is good. I don't think it's terrible.
I mean it's better than him being there. Unsigned Jamar
(08:45):
was a distraction last year.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Now maybe to the average player on the team, but no,
but we're asking about it, we're talking about it, we're
tweeting about it. We're just amplifying the conversation all the time, right,
which is our fault, I'm sure, but you know that's
but that is what it is. When it's around, you
see it, the guys see it. There's Jamar, he's unhappy.
I don't know, Trey's unhappy in Florida somewhere right And
(09:08):
I think it's a lot easier to be going about
your business and seeing it when it's like it's almost
like he's just hurt right now and he's inside in
the locker room getting worked on. I mean, it's just
a lot easier to avoid that, and so I don't
I don't think he is much of a distraction. I
also don't have much concern about it getting done. Yeah,
you know what I mean, Like it just feels inevitable
(09:31):
is the wrong word, but it really feels like this
is this is just kind of gradually moving in the
right direction where it ends up and everybody's happy, so
there's no freaking out about it.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
I've had visions in my head of us doing the
show from down there, and you know, our our little
table has been just in the back corner of the
end zone. And maybe Trey stopping by, like with you
guys that appearing on the air with us as his
teammates are practicing. I think that would be a lot
of fun for all parties involved.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, you'd have company.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
I would be pulling my stool up and sitting down
right next to you and making sure my recorder was
in front of whatever he was saying you to your microphone.
I'm I'm sure about that. Yeah, but you never know.
It could end up that place. But it doesn't doesn't
feel that way right now.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Trey Hendrickson is not here, but but Shamar Stewart has
been at practice the last couple of days, and we
have to spend some time on that. Also, you wrote
about Zach moss I did and uh, it's it's it's
rare that there are paragraphs in a story that make
me go, huh, the Zach mass story did. And you're
writing about the injuries he dealt with while playing last year,
(10:41):
and we have to spend some time on that. Paul
Danner Junior on x at Paul Danner Jr. The Athletic
dot Com. The Growler Podcast is the latest edition out.
It is out the one that I was a part
of you were you were a part of it. Yes,
you were great. I did I did a little. I
had to do some editing. I might have been okay,
you were fined the iHeartMedia Wi Fi not so much
(11:04):
troublesome troubles My editing fingers fixed it all like it
never was a problem. Much appreciated. Sixteen minutes after three o'clock.
He's Paul al Mo. This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati
Sports Station.
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Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
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Moeagger, Paul Tayner juniors here from The Athletic and the
Growler podcast covering Bengals training camp, which resumes tomorrow. How
surprised were you on Friday to find out that the
Shamar Stewart thing was done.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I mean, it's felt like it was going to be
in our lives to the end of time. So I
guess slightly.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
The timing was not super you know, Friday night, Friday night,
off day tomorrow. He was unnecessary, right, But it's kind
this whole thing is kind of it's kind of was
a fitting way. Yes, one last kick to the gut
on this thing, but either way, it was like, I
don't know, at some point they'll come to their senses,
and it sounds like they did, so.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I guess there's some surprise there, but it had to happen.
It had to happen.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Yeah, how far behind when he took the field on
Sunday for his first NFL practice was he?
Speaker 5 (12:55):
I mean, you know we're over there watching him go
through the the standard little individual drills that they do beforehand.
I mean, after every single rep of no matter how
simple the thing he was doing, he would have a
coaching point, right, and it'd be like, no, do this no,
do this. You went that way, and make sure you
take this way. I mean it was trial by fire.
(13:17):
I mean he was in early that morning, as thirty
as early as you can come in that morning, and
getting the extra meetings in and everything else, and he recognized,
I mean, that's that's what it's going to be. I mean,
the mental reps only took you so far. You got
to get out there and do it. Now he's out
there to do it. There was no question that he
(13:38):
was swimming and trying to just understand. Mean, at one
point he walked out and there was kind of a
had to ask somebody, where do I go.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
On?
Speaker 5 (13:46):
You guys are on that field, defensive linner back there.
I mean, that's it's as simple as that. But then yeah,
the next day, when you put him in a place
where you're on the football field, now go do something, right,
he went and did things. Yeah, so it's a little
easier then. It probably easier for him to rush the
quarterback than figure out where the defensive line practices.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
And so he went out there.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
I thought that was more stunning than him signing on
Friday or whatever any of that stuff was. That he
was immediately out there immediately being impactful because I think
you felt like it was good to take more time.
Not that I mean again, there's no tackling everything, but
I mean there he was making plays.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
You could see kind of the speed and the size
and the length and all of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
It was a real pleasant surprise because of how the
week started. Right, the week started with the Bengals taking
shots at his agent, and it kind of feeling like,
all right, let's settle in here.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
This is going to be a while.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
And then by week's end we're good and he's missed
three training camp practices and yeah he was. He missed
a lot of stuff not being there and a full
participant for mini camp and OTAs and stuff. But I
think relative to what a lot of us were fearing
where I mean, Tony and I were talking about it
from training camp, where it's like, at what point do
you go even if he shows up now it's a wash,
we didn't come close to that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
No, you know what I just can't get over.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
The dumbest part of this whole thing is the practice
waiver in the off season program.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Correct, like that was the problem.
Speaker 5 (15:08):
Yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with him fighting for
this and missing a couple of training camp practices or whatever,
sign the practice waiver to justipate like every other human
being in the draft does, like Demitrius Knight.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Just do that some.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
Good will and maybe you get a little bit more
of what you want and fight your fight at this point,
Like that's to me, that was always the thing, like
what are you doing? It looks like you don't want
to be here, don't care about being here when you're
not doing the easiest thing, which is signing the practice waiver.
Have an issue with the language and whatever, but like,
do the off season program and then fight your fight
(15:43):
when it comes to this time of yearing and then
get that. That would have happened, Yeah, no one would.
I don't even know how much people nationally would even
be talking about it. They wouldn't even recognize it because
oh he's the last guy signed. But instead it becomes
this huge thing which was just silly, Which is the
silliness to me of all of it.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
First ballot ESPN fifteen thirty Ring of Honor inductee.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
We're gonna up on the wall. We're gonna, we're gonna,
we're gonna come up.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
With a way to put him up here somehow to
honor the summer of Shamar. It's been awesome. It's been awesome.
I can't thank him enough. Next year, in the first
round of the draft, if there's two guys on the
board and one guy is represented by Zach Hiller and
the other is not to the Bengals, just cross off
the guy who's represented by Zach Hiller.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
I know who, I know who You're circling on your boy? Yeah, Hi,
there's a chance. I feel like there's a chance. It's like,
but how how long does that list get? It's like, okay,
get a okay, killer and we got on the line,
like at a certain point.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Maybe it's not the agents all the time.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
Yeah, you know, but I do understand that, yes, that
I would think they would probably think twice before.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
They go to I mean, like, like Shamar said, no
hard feelings, and I believe them, Like, all right, I'm signed,
I'm gonna get paid. I got something out of the standoff,
you know, half million dollars earlier than I was going
to get it.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Time to start my NFL career. Fine.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
I can understand Zach Hiller going, yeah, man, like okay,
you know, next we'll talk to you next year, we'll
see what happened.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I didn't.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
I didn't love the no regrets comment from schamar In
that again, I think he's a young kid and he's
just kind of is a lot going on over top
of his head that he's just like what the heck man?
But I will say it's it's a perfect opportunity to
be like. I wish it wouldn't have gotten as ugly
as it did, but I but we had to fight
(17:34):
for what we had to fight for. Like that's an
easy instead it's no regrets. I want to pit bowl,
you know, as my dog. And that's fine. You know,
that's fine. Everybody handles it their own way. I think
that would have been a good chance to go a
little bit further. But nobody cares what he said about
I'm all football now. I want to play football. I
(17:54):
want to be here. Yeah that's all. That's more than enough.
Nobody cares about the rest of it. But I'm sure
that might have resonated a little bit more if he
had a little regret.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Four things that mattered from Week one. One of the
four Jermaine Burton, see you did is this are you
setting this up for? After the breaker? Am I supposed
to respond to this?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Now? That was a little vague. Have we got two minutes? Okay,
what are you doing?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
What I had said to you months ago was like,
there's gonna be a point where you start to write
and this This wasn't a full on Jermaine Burton piece,
but it was a list. There are four things that
mattered I did. So this is what made me happy
to read this. First of all, Jermaine Burton's not making
news for doing the wrong thing. Secondly, what you're far
more trained. I saw match what I was watching while
(18:39):
we were down there, which was Jermaine Burton looking the
part of a quality NFL wide receiver, developing trust with
his quarterback.
Speaker 5 (18:46):
Yeah, in my notes multiple times each day for making
some kind of a play, and I'm not seeking out
just literally writing, oh nice play by who was that?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Eighty one? Okay?
Speaker 5 (18:56):
The back shoulder the early practice, one of the early
practices of maybe day two, Burrow throwing a back shoulder
to Burton that he comes down with the ultimate trust
throw for him, the ultimate thing of got to believe
in you that you're gonna be there, and that shows
that you're coming a long way with your quarterback with
this quarterback, I should say, he went to him and
(19:18):
he caught it and he came down with it. Next thing,
you know, you see him making a few plays. He
had three on the three on my sheet one day,
winning one on one battles, going and making a play
you know, in the ends on a fifty to fifty ball.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
That stuff. That stuff matters.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
He's not there yet, right like I think, I think
they'd still like to see more detail. But again, all
he can do is be there and be consistent. And
he's going to get a lot of opportunity in the
preseason to prove that he can go out there and
do it all on the fly and be ready for that.
And he's he's earned that opportunity right now, and so
(19:53):
we'll see what he does with it.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah, next Thursday, he's going to be on the field
a lot some capacity, and he's gonna have a chance
to somewhat significantly shift the narrative about him.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
Let's hope between now and then it doesn't end up
where we're sitting there and it's it's five minutes ago
in the fourth quarter and.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
He isn't in yet.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
But that'll tell us all we need to know you,
I know wants to relive that again. That'll tell us
everything we need to know, is that, like you know,
ten o'clock, Jermaine Burton is just trotting out onto the
field for the first time in Philadelphia. Week from Thursday,
follow the snaps, we have to talk about a player
at the Bengals didn't sign and a guy who is
back who played last year with a broken neck.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
It is three point thirty. He's Paul Danner Junior on
my legger. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
SINCY three sixty with Tony Pike. If we want to
move on for doctor Keith Goring and Austin Elmore.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I think you should continue. Let me keep going.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Though SINCY three sixty tomorrow which twelve noons on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
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on the Hill seven ten Tonight seven hundred wl W
Reds Now two back the last wild card Padres won
a wild game over the Mets last night. Those same
two teams took up tonight in San Diego. Hunter Green's
(21:53):
going to pitch tonight four innings scheduled for the Louisville
Bats as he attempts to come back from that groin injury.
Florence y'all's at Windy City tonight. Bengal's not practicing today.
They're back in the practice field tomorrow morning at ten am.
It is open to the public and we'll have the
Ae dorn Window, Tony and Moe training camp show all throughout.
(22:14):
Paul Danner Junior is here for another few minutes. The
Noah fan thing came and went. Didn't sign his heads.
That ship is sailed. No, no possibility.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
I think when Noah came in, the conversation was what
do you want to do? And he wanted to do
a little tour. He wanted to have a better feel
for his options and literally go to each place. Yeah,
so he's in Miami now, went to New Orleans, was
here first. But I think the Bengals loved what happened
when he was here. I think they were really interested. Okay,
(22:45):
I think they felt like he was going to be
a fit. It's just a matter of okay, when he
comes back to figure it all out where he lands
on where he wants to go and you know, if
it's a money thing, if it's a football fit thing,
he got to figure that out. But I think he
just wanted to gather it all first and then come back.
But I felt like the Bengals felt like they had
(23:07):
a chance and liked the idea of it.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
How concerning is the Lucas Patrick injury? Not much?
Speaker 5 (23:13):
Yeah, I mean I think you know, he's been around.
It's not like I think it'd be different, the same
way we talked about Shamar Stewart versus Trey Henkerson, Like
it's it's different if you if this happened a dyl unfairchild,
I'd be really concerned if you did to miss a
week or two. Right, he needs all of these reps.
Lucas Patrick has been in this league. Right, he knows
what he's doing. He went through the whole offseason program
(23:34):
starting where he's gone through the call, has developed a
lot of that chemistry. He shouldn't have any problem. It's
just a matter of you don't want to linger, uh,
just get fully healed. But I don't think you're worried
about the mental side of it. With somebody like that,
he can, he can step in and play. That's kind
of the reason he's here.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Zach Moss is currently on the non football injury list.
He wrote extensively about Zach who broke his neck last year.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, in three places in his C six.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Play football ever again, it's healed. Yeah, broken neck, broken neck,
I mean yeah, and it was. I mean he basically
feels like he played through some version of it for
eight weeks last year because he said, you know, they
they didn't they got work done after he played against
the Eagles and couldn't feel three of his fingers. Uh huh,
and he's like, okay, something before that, he just thought
(24:22):
his neck was sore and that was really all and so.
But he said he traced that back to all the
way the week one. So he feels like, looking back
on it, that he played for eight weeks essentially probably
a broken neck, but not knowing that. They didn't really
get it totally diagnosed until after he went through the
game where he couldn't feel things, and then they did
all the work and they see it on that Friday
where they were stunn.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
He's like, everyone was stunned. I was stunned. Doctors were stunned.
Everybody was stunned to find out that was the case.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
This is like football in every way. This is the
brutality of football. It's not just the physical, it's the
mental aspect of having to know you broke your neck. Yeah,
and now you got to go step up into the
A gap again? Like that is hard. I I don't
you know, I've been you know, I talked to Zach
about this, Zach Moss about this, and Justin Hill running
(25:09):
back coach, and a few other people, and every time
I talked to him, I said, yeah, I am not
wired like anybody here the moment something like that happened.
I have a He has a wife, a two year old,
and a two month old at home in Utah right now.
It's the first time he's ever gone to camp without
his wife or his family with him, and he came
back here leaving them knowing I'm gonna go still try
(25:31):
to play football after what happened last year. Like to me,
that is that's you have to be wired differently to
play that game. You have to be wired differently to
think that way and make that decision. But he's nowhere
near in a place I don't think physically in terms
of his conditioning or you know, I don't know. I
think mentally. He sounds like he's trying to work some
(25:52):
through some things when you talk to him a little bit.
But he wants to play. He says, I'm here. I
wouldn't have left my family behind if I didn't want
to play. The question is canny and I don't know.
It certainly feels like he's got a long way to
go to get to that point where you can say, yeah, Zach,
Zach Moss can play well.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
The entire time I read your piece, I'm like screaming
at it, going, Zach, just go walk away.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
It's okay. Your kids.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
Man, he's made over nine million dollars as a pro.
He's got a great family at home, and he has,
you know, done an incredible job of setting them up
for life.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
It's okay.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
But that's hard, Like you know, when you are defined
by something, ye to have to to be forced to
walk away from it, that is hard. I've always been
fascinated by how players walk away because it's never easy.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
It rarely ever goes well. It always has.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
People saying what are you doing in some way that
it's being handled. It's so hard when that's your life.
You're a football player. People know me as a football player,
and him people know me as the tough football player.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
That's Zach. I want to know, is the dad?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I feel the.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
Same way, and that's why I must have asked him
three times in that interview, are you want to play?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Though? Like you want to you wanna play?
Speaker 5 (27:12):
And he kept saying yeah, I want to play, and
and you know, I guess Kudo's tom on that, but
I feel like that would scare me so much. I
can't imagine how hard that is to deal with the
idea of going back out there again. But we'll, you know,
we'll see what's happening. For now, he's just doing conditioning
on the side.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Yeah, obviously we're all rooting for him, but there's a
part of me that wishes the person who cleared him
just went, yeah, look, man, not cleared. Sorry, I'm taking
it out of your hands. Yeah, but he is, and
I hope. Look, the bones are healed if that's the
doctor's job.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
The doctor's job is not to say now, a psychiatrist
or whoever you know.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I mean, I don't mean that joke.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
I mean, they would be the ones to say, I
don't think you're there yet. But in terms of in
terms of the bones are healed, you are.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
You do not have.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Neck right, right, That's that's the current diagnosis. And so
he's here trying to get the rest of it back together.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Man, it's hard.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
It's it's a good read. It's an emotional one, and
you could I could feel for him. Yeah, and we're
all rooting for him for obvious reasons, But man, I don't.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Know, dude.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
Yeah, I mean, in so many ways, it does feel
that way like it's it it's it feels in some
ways like he's just fighting to hang on to something,
the idea that it will click and it'll and he'll
be able to get back into shape and be able
to be the same guy again. But that that just,
you know, you can tell, it just feels a long
way off right now.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
All right, Well, read that piece at the Athletic dot
Com Paul Danner Junior. Listen to the Growler podcast. Typically
we have you for an hour, but we have training
camp reports from Tony pie.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
Is Tony under a tent down there right now. He's
down there at the stadium, Yeah, under a tent. Al
Golden's there, Al Golden's walking laps.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
They're working on the field right now and getting things
ready for ten o'clock tomorrow. But you know, our training
camp coverage has no bounds, So just because there's no
training camp today doesn't mean we're not giving you the
latest from training camp.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Always exhaustive. I appreciate it. It's very very thorough.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
Tony is is just crushing it. He is, I mean unbelievable.
I mean because to not only do that, but then
to go right into Sincy three sixty. Yeah, and keep
it rolling to bait. I mean that's a lot of
that's a lot of talk about training. He's there starting
at ten am. Yeah, does the show with me till noon.
I get a little bit of a break, like I
can recharge my batteries, get something to you know. My
(29:36):
guy's there till three and then has to do live
training camp reports on two different radio stations between three
and six.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Man's a machine, an absolute machine, no question. But it
gives you a little bit of a respite so you
can leave now. I mean, you're more than walking to
stick around.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
I mean I maybe I will. I mean I am
an ice Cubes chair. That is the chair that ice
Cubes had. I tell you I didn't want to sit
in at me, not knowing that ice Cube had sat
in it already. I don't feel like I'm worthy now
that I know that it's been blessed by royalty.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
I told you before you sat down, that seats for
two people, yourself and for ice Cube. And that's and
that's pretty much it. Ice Cube was in here in studio.
Was awesome.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
The only time I've ever been referenced as is an
equal in any way to ice.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Ice Cube was in the building, took pictures with people.
But he was here on a Friday, and you know
our building, a lot of folks like to work from
home on Friday, So it was great coming in yesterday.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
And folks, we didn't tell me ice Cube.
Speaker 7 (30:33):
Was coming, Like, I don't know. Maybe if you were
here on a Friday, happens on you would come to work.
You would know that ice Cube is here. Yeah, not
my responsibility to tell you. So you know what, come
to work, good things can happen. Paul, Thanks very much.
Paul Danner, Junior at the Athletic dot com.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
In the Growlar podcast, Tony Pike with a live training
camp report even though there's no training camp today.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Next Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the.
Speaker 6 (31:01):
Uc Health Traffic Center. U See Health's Weight Loss Center
offers surgical and medical obesity care and expertise. Call five
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(31:23):
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