July 15, 2025 • 42 mins
Mo Egger and Paul Dehner Jr talk all things Bengals and Shemar Stewart possibly playing at Texas A&M?!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:06):
Enter it now, ESPN fifteen.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
It is really really hard to ruin the home run
Derby and yet ESPN managed to you last night. So congratulations.
I mean that is that is like screwing up a
beverage of duncan tonuts. What's up on ba Legger? This
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on Twitter thanks to Emery Federal Credit Union, your credit
(00:34):
union with hard since nineteen thirty nine. Go to Emery
FCU dot org. He's back after about a month little hiatus,
little sabbatical. Paul Danner juniors with us from The Athletic
and the Growler podcast. Bengals training camp starts next week.
So it's it's awesome to have you. It's not Tuesdays
(00:54):
are not the same without you.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
It's good to be here. I missed it. I don't
I don't like us not having this time to gather. Agreed,
And I feel better not come entire equilibrium of the show. Yeah. Well,
and I feel like my my routine is off. I
don't feel right, but I'm excited about this. The good
news is we've got cool, fun news that I'm sure
that you'll bring up that I'm really stoked about. I
(01:18):
had to have a conversation with myself. Yeah, okay, Yeah,
am I gonna just like not, I'm gonna vow over
Camp no matter what happens. I'm just not gonna talk
about the first round pick. Okay. Like that's how this is.
That's what I want it to be. And I feel
like it's a stance worth taking right now, okay, because nothing,
(01:40):
nothing that you hear or see is gonna be worth
your time, you know what I mean. It's like it's
just gonna it stirs stuff up, none of it. It's
all all.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I have fifteen segments today. Four of them, four of
them planned right now, are about the Bengals first round pick.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, I did it.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I'm sort of gonna push back on this just a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I get it. I just don't want it to this
to be what it is. I just don't want this
to be what it is. You knew it was, I mean,
we all knew it was coming. Yeah, it's only gonna
be worse. I just I think I'm I'm willing to
take some time where I say I'm not going there, okay,
but I'm happy.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
To accept with you of course. Thanks, you're the extense
very much. You're thanks very much. Well camps here. It's
coming up, starts next week. You guys got mock turtle
soup coming up. That's gonna be big. Yes, lots of
moving parts lock going on. It's exciting, It is exciting.
I get I get very excited. Mock turtle soup is
a fun time. We'll talk to Mike.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
There's topics there, and you know, I'm excited to talk
about things happening on the field that I think has
been obviously under discust. So we did, uh we did
a show right before I went on vacation where we
did a draft. It was me and Charlie and Jeremy
(03:03):
ralfrom Fox Sinny team. We did a draft of the
most interesting Bengals for this upcoming season. It was so
refreshing to just to just have these conversations where we're
just let's talk about the team. Yeah, it's really like
this team is really interesting, as they usually are, and
I found it to be incredibly refreshing. I just I
(03:24):
think we'll talk about the fan survey. Yeah, everyone is
over it. I understand we're gonna have to talk about
all this stuff, and whenever there's gonna be all this stuff,
the field feels like a great place to turn our
attention to and I'm very happy for it to show
up next week. Yeah, it's interesting. While you were away.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
At one point, I was on with Tony and Austin
during the end of their show and Tony brought up
Pro football focuses rankings of offensive lines, and I almost
had to like recalibrate myself, like, wait a minute, Shamar
Stewart's not an offensive lineman. Ray Hendrickson's not an offensive lineman.
Huh okay, yeah, yes, yes, let's talk about some of
(04:06):
those guys, right. And it's I even said to him,
like that was a good segment because it was just
talking ball, right, you know what I mean. It's just
and and a huge part of the team that I
feel like can go in any in any number of directions.
And I think you could say that about a lot
of the components of this team. It is I'm not
sure how many roster spots are going to.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Be up for grabs.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
But even if you remove the Hendrickson and Shamar Stuart
things from the equation, which you really can't do, but
if you try, you're left with, I think at a
deeply fascinating team and a deeply fascinating roster at a
really interesting time in the franchise's history.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, I think you've got a team that's kind of
at a crossroads moment in terms of there's already been
some implications to the last two years and what's gone wrong,
and that's clear, whether it's lost jobs, whether it's a
fan base that's that's turtling or turning. I should say
(05:05):
they might be turtling too. Wow's turning. All of these
things that are happening, and you have a team that
has all the POTENTI that can win the Super Bowl. Like,
that's not a thing that anybody should be uncomfortable saying.
That's how they're positioned, that's how they're positioned offensively, and
(05:28):
they're trying things on defense. There's reason, there's a path
to believe, but you gotta like see it come together.
It's something that very much could come together, and there's
also a path for a disaster scenario. I just think
that the range of outcomes are very wide here, and
you have this window of Joe Burrow, T Higgins and
(05:50):
Jamar Chase and you only, you know, you never know
how many rips you have at it, and it just
seems to be a lot on the line right now,
where one more year of what has gone on the
last two years feels like it has massive implications up
and down, you know, the roster and the coaching staff.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I finally finished Quarterback. Yeah, watched the final two episodes
last night because the home run derby was terrible, and
I was reminded watching the last two episodes, like, yes,
they fell short of the postseason, and yes there was
immediate fallout from nine to eight and missing the postseason,
(06:31):
but during those last five weeks that was kind of fun. Yeah,
And during those last five weeks we were starting to
feel pretty good about where this may go. And then obviously,
you know, all that was played played up against the
backdrop of the T. Higgins conversation pivoting very very suddenly.
But I'm I'm watching the last two episodes last night,
and I'm like, you know, I really enjoyed watching that
team down the stretch, that offense last year was awesome,
(06:52):
and for an off season that has been defined, at
least in terms of how we've talked about them by
some reason unpleasant things like when they stopped playing football
last year. I felt like, all right, get one or
two things fixed, and I'm watching that team in late
January again this coming season.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
That can still happen. Yeah, I don't think that the
process of the way that they've done things has been terrible.
There's been problems along the way in terms of not
supplementing more, whether it be in free agency or you
can you know, obviously have issues with certain draft picks
or whatever. But like, I think they're in a good place.
(07:29):
They have a chance to have number one offense in football.
They have taken a reasonable path to fixing that defense.
That one that builds on those last five weeks, That
builds on what you saw was when they felt like
they found a way to connect with young players, which
was through this oversimplification and changing back to something just
go play. Granted asterisk on the quarterbacks they went against there,
(07:53):
but you know it was it was notably better and
it seemed to bring out a little bit more in
a lot of young players that they let play let
the young guys play, let them play free and get
more out of it. And you know, if Al Golden
comes in and does build on that, that's the construction
of a team that is ready to do it.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Man.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And I think that we spend so much time on
the other stuff with whatever's gonna happen there, and whatever's
gonna happen is gonna happen. But what remains is enough
I think to be right there in the mix with Baltimore,
to be right there in the mix with Kansas City
and Buffalo and the other teams that are mentioned in
the AFC and anybody in the league because of the
(08:38):
momentum and what they have building offensively, in the possibilities
of what they have on defense. I mean I was
outlining this before. They have nine top one hundred draft
picks that are going to be in a significant rotation,
and all of them have had struggles at one point
in time or the other or whatever. So if Al
(08:59):
Golden is able to get a majority of those guys,
five six of those guys to start to live more
up to their but what they have been at times
or the potential of those draft picks, I refuse to
believe they all are terrible. These were all bad picks, right,
I just don't see that.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
If that comes out, that's I mean, that's it. That's
what we'll define this team being really interesting. As much
as we spend ninety percent of the conversation on Hendrickson
Stewart in the front office, what's gonna happen with those guys,
those nine guys is going to be what matters over
the course that we watch over camp, over the preseason,
and over the early portion of this season to see,
(09:36):
you know, if there is a ceiling on this team,
specifically because of the defense.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
You and your other thirty one counterparts were asked to
name a breakout candidate for this season, and I was
before I opened it. I was trying to guess who
it would be. And it's kind of doing that thinking
who I would say it was going to be. We
did not have the same guy I had Joseph Osaig. Oh,
you had Cam Taylor Brick.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Yeah, yeah, I had Cam Taylor brid I just I
like where he's at, where he seemed to be at
mentally this offseason. I like what he has on tape
in the past when he's been right, and I like
betting on this setup to get him, right. I just
think that the things feel like they're going in the
(10:19):
right direction with him. You could have picked. I mean,
Chase Brown was certainly on my list, but I was
almost uncomfortable calling him a breakout because of what happened
the second half of last season. But then I think
after I filled that out, some list came out that
he wasn't even in like the top twenty running backs. Er,
yeah right, he did a top ten.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, then they did honorable mention and then they did
like also receiving votes.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, Chase Brown was nowhere to be seen. Yeah. I
was tempted to come off my vacation to change my
answer that I had put in for that because I
was just like, I don't I just some surprise people
don't view him in that light. Yeah, when you consider
what he was doing last year. But I understand people
maybe not paying at ten because of the other stars.
But man, like he is set up to have it.
(11:03):
He so maybe maybe I would replace him knowing that now,
But defensively, I still think, you know, Cam Taylor Britt
has a chance to be you know, contract to your stuff,
can be, can be a real guy that finally lives
up to I think what a lot of the hype
has been. Whole segment to start the hour. There we go. See,
(11:25):
I'm whatever, we will do it whenever we gotta do it.
I I'm here for whatever you need. I want you
to be happy. We have a I have a long
season ahead of us. It's gonna be you know, long
winding roads at the end of the year. So you
know I'm here for you. I know you are.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I have four segments blocked out to talk about the
Bengals first round draft choice. I'm gonna do those four
segments regardless, but I can wait till that for four o'clock.
If you if you, I'm I'm happy.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
You have to be.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
I think the word is malleable. When you have this
job you do, yeah, and I will, I will do.
Give me one of those. Give me one of those. Okay,
very good.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Paul Danner juniors here from the Athletic dot Com and
the Growler Podcast.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Uh, you do the annual fan survey, right, do this every.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Year and the results are not great, not great, surprising,
I would say a little bit.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I was even even with anticipation. Yeah, surprising. All right,
we're gonna do that next. It is sixteen minutes after
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This report is. This is ESPN fifteen to thirty.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Paul Tayer Juniors here from the Athletic dot Com and
the Growler Podcast. Bengals training camp begins next week. Paul
does an annual Bengals fan survey at the Athletic dot Com.
The results are in of all the different questions that
(13:40):
you pose to fans, which series of answers surprised you
the most.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I think how hard they turned against ownership in the
front office kind of collectively. I think it was something
that we all, like I anticipated obviously, I mean, we
know what we I do still have an x account
with mentions, and so I'm well aware of the feelings.
(14:06):
We all know what's going on. But I felt like
there would still be some residual connection to what in
the past has actually been a trend that gave them
some gave ownership some respect for what they were doing.
You know, trust levels were at all time highs. I
mean despite the fact that you know, they hadn't made
(14:27):
the playoffs or whatever was going on, they still were
rarely rating a one with least confidence or even two
with low confidence. The past three years they were down
in the you know, between one and ten percent when
you combine those two categories, and then in this one
it was eighty percent vote for those two categories. And
(14:49):
it's just when you see it in front of you,
hopefully and dramatically shifts to see that big of a
shift in one off season. I think what was bigger
than I would have anticipated. And it just shows the
exhaustion that exists from all of the haggling over contracts
(15:09):
that has been going on for twelve months. Really going
back to Jamar last dear and to see it that
dramatic shows a fan base that is over it, man like,
just over it. It's and it's affecting their belief. So
you look into then going how confident are you that
this team is headed in the right direction? I mean,
(15:30):
these were that was a really high percentage people saying
very confident in the last three years, even with the losing.
It was still even even with not making the playoffs
in twenty four was lingering over Burrows injury, it was
still a really high number. You still had fifty eight
percent saying four and another thirty percent saying five. This
(15:50):
year you only had twenty five percent with four or five,
and that number shifted dramatically. You have this huge number,
this vast majority of fans don't even think that it's
headed in the right direction anymore. Now, there were a
lot one thing I would do want to say, there
were a lot more people that responded to this survey
about twenty five percent more than we'd had in the
(16:12):
previous three or four years. Because what makes people want
to go fill out surveys, Right, I'm mad and I
want to hear it. I want to hear it, and
so I think that sort of reflective of the same
thing as well. Maybe a lot of people did just
show up there that don't vote in the past to
just go throw in once. But I think that is
the point as well, is that it's moving people to
(16:36):
do things that they maybe even weren't doing before because
they want to be heard. You know, you had a
fan base that thought in the will the Bengals win
a Super Bowl in the next three years question, I mean,
the answer was yes in twenty twenty two, eighty four percent.
Twenty twenty three, it was ninety three percent. Last year,
it was eighty one percent this year, all the way
(16:57):
down to a fifty to fifty split. Don't see the path.
People feel like they're losing on the margins. People feel
like all of the things that are happening off the
field are stealing this. You can feel them saying we're
losing Joe Burrow's window, which I think is something that's
rightfully reflect totally fair. It's rightfully reflecting. I just think
(17:19):
the amount of which you saw it turned specifically against
sort of the ownership element of this was more than
I anticipated what I think it would.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Have been interesting had you done this exercise in March.
But I was thinking about this as I was going
through the results that you know, the early March press
conference Jamar and T feels like a lifetime ago.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I don't believe.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
And I say this sitting here every day, I see
this looking at the results of a survey like yours,
and I hear this justin talking with just friends of
mine who are Bengals fans. They didn't enjoy the post
Jamar and T extension pr bump that I thought they
(18:03):
were going to enjoy. And I'm sure that they thought
they were going to enjoy. I think most people looked
at that press conference as yeah, it's fun. But you
know when you hear immediately afterward, while we had to
devote so much energy to these two guys that it
cost us here and it came at the expense of
having to devote a lot of time to this, Like
I think it's interesting, this thing that we had been
talking about for so long that most people wanted they got,
(18:27):
and yet there's still skepticism and exhaustion with how they
do things because the.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Process matters, Like it's not about the end results. It
can't just be hey, we got these guys done, yeah,
but you alienated them in the process.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
It was this.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
It was this whole exhaustive thing to get there, and
when you do it that way, you end up where
you know it. You don't even get the pr bump
that you really want out of it because you know
how hard it was, because there's been so much mud
that's been slung back and forth before, between requests and
everything that happened with Jamari Camp and everything else, just
to get to that point, and to the point you
(19:05):
even have t saying the word finally in the press conference,
and it's just like, the process matters. Fans are so
much smarter than they've ever been. They understand this stuff.
For maybe in the past five, ten, fifteen years ago,
this stuff there wasn't as much of a feeling of
having a grasp on how you can win and lose
(19:27):
in the NFL. Because of this stuff, fans get it now.
Fans have a much better understanding of this side of
the game. And they see that it's more than just
throwing a couple of big wins out there. Hey, we
signed Jamar and t It's so much more than that.
If you're gonna compete and really try to win a
Super Bowl, you're gonna compete with, you know, the Eagles
(19:47):
and the Chiefs and the rest of these teams that
are out there doing it in different ways maybe, and
so the process matters. I think is sort of the
message of that that you get the pr bump when
people know you did the right thing and you did
it the right way. I think right now they're trying
to do a lot of the right things, but I
think in some cases they're just not doing it the
(20:07):
right way, and fans see through all that.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Now that's survey the results, the Athletic dot Com or
by the way, one of Paul's colleagues calls the Bengals overrated.
We'll get to that coming up here in just a bit.
Get your thoughts on quarterback on Netflix and.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
All right, man, you said you'll do it, I'll do one.
He said you'll do it, I'll do one.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Shamar Stewart has not yet signed with the Bengals, but
could he go back and play college football in Texas
A and.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
We have to do it next on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Sincy three sixty with Tony Pike.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Do we want to move on?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
For doctor Keith Gorse and Boston Elmore.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I think you should continue.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Let me keep going there, Sincy three sixty tomorrow which
twelve News on ESPN fifteen thirty. Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
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night is on ESPN fifteen thirty as well. Paul Danner
Juniors here from the Athletic dot Com. So Shamar Stewart
(22:09):
has yet unsigned. On the Cover three podcast, I am
not going to play the audio now, but I'm going
to play it in the next hour for folks who
haven't heard this, but the panelists debate whether or not
Shamar Stuart could actually attempt to go back to Texas
A and m U.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Flor well smell dug. Yeah, well, I will say one
the the Schamar is back there practicing with the team.
I mean what capacity, Okay, players do that. Yes, there's
a lot of players that do their summer workouts there.
(22:52):
You know the idea that this, I mean, I think
this clearly sounds like, hey, we'll go back to school.
This was gonna scare him. I I've been around this
team for a long time. It has now gone so
public to the point that there is no like, it's
(23:14):
it's gonna be old school digging in from the Bengals
that they're not move gonna move like, that's not something
that they're not gonna get influenced by this. It would
be the most stunning outcome be the Bengals being like,
you know, I don't want him to go back to ski.
He might go back to school, he might leave the
(23:35):
money on the table, he might take his chances and
come back. That's just that would be the most emergency.
You know, what's he's my station. What are we gonna do? Yeah,
that's not gonna impact anything. And then you know, I
(23:57):
just kind of laugh about the idea of like, but
what if they get a rookie year where the first
round pick doesn't quite contribute, Well, that would be very
much the same as what has seemed to happen most
years around here. It has happened before. Red shirt red
shirt here we go, red shirt year there. I guess
are very convoluted, complicated ways in which something like this
(24:19):
could happen. If you think that it's for the betterment
of your career professionally to go back and whether it
sit out a year or be involved in a bunch
of lawsuits and then re enter a draft after you
didn't want to report and sign language that exists with
other players in the draft next year. I think, you
(24:41):
know that's highly all you ares, buddy, you know, if
that's it, I just I hope this gets resolved. For
Shamar Stewart's sake. I go back to that every single time.
It just feels like the adults, supposed adults in the
room are failing at this player. Yeah, and it's just
(25:02):
it's he's the one that's gonna deal with this, the
impact of it, and it's gonna hurt the Bengals. Everybody
is hurt by the way this is going down. And
but the idea of him going back, I mean, I guess,
and plus the NFL impact here, the NFL is like, yeah,
(25:24):
this is not a precedent that we're gonna stand by
and politely let happen. They go, I don't know, No,
the NFL is gonna have zero interest in anything of
this capacity. So then what does the NFL do if PU,
if push were shove I mean, I'm sure there's there's
They have plenty of ways to get involved. I mean,
(25:45):
I'm sure that they could get involved however they wanted to.
I mean, outside Schamar going back and being like, I'm
not going to participate in sport until next year's draft
is probably his clearest path if that's something he really
wants to.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Do, pointing out there's a difference between him not playing
at all and sitting out and then he played.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
If he played, the Bengals would retain his rights. So
if he's still have to come back and deal with
the bank. So if he just if he were to
somehow unless he unless he decide again, unless we're in
lawsuits and it's like it's twenty twenty nine and they're
still trying to work out this and they're in.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Court, Like, but I want to make the distinction clear here.
So if he were to somehow figure out a way
to play college football next season, regardless of whether he
is good bad, whatever happens, the Bengals at the end
of that season would control his rights. Yes, if he
decides I'm not doing anything I'm gonna set out, then
he can re ender the draft.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
But he can't re enter the draft and play college
football this coming season.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Not under the current setup, right, I said on my show,
I said on this show yesterday, I'm just you know,
even in your fan survey you asked about people taking sides,
and actually, as it relates to both Trey Hendrickson and
Shamar Stewart, I was surprised that so many people really
aren't taking sides. My side is I just want one
(27:07):
side or the other to be hit by a.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Bolt of common sense. Uh where.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
If it's the Bengals, it's come on, man, like, just
let's kick the can down the sidewalk. As it relates
to the language and the contract to next year, get
the dude here, Cam starts next week. Let's cross this
off the list and then worry about Trey Hendrickson and
try to get him done and go in the Super
Bowl this year. Or I'm hoping that a bolt of
common sense hit Shamar and you go, you know what,
(27:32):
this is not how I want to start my career.
This is not how I want to start my chosen profession.
This is not how I want to launch my relationship
with the Cincinnati Bengals, And it's not how I want
to start my relationship with pro football. I don't think
that bolt is coming. It feels like right now neither
bolt is coming. No, I agree, I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I will say, though we have we're still a week
away from the day where a Marius MEM's signed last year.
Uh huh. So I'm and I'm not. I'm just say sure,
it's not like Maria.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Smims had done the waiver was going to work out,
but there was also issues sitting in his locker, popping
off on.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
His nor no question. I'm just saying, though deals have
gotten done at this point in time, including just last year,
which had different language than the year before. So I mean,
I'm it's not like there isn't some bit of precedent
there to that there's ways for them to figure out
a way to fix it. I'm you know, but you're right.
(28:28):
It just it it feels like something that is gonna
be ongoing. What about Trey Hendrickson, something that's definitely going
to be ongoing. I mean, I don't that's doesn't it
feel destined to go like all these things do I have?
I've joked about this, and maybe with you, but I've
joked about like, all right, so the season starts on
(28:51):
the seventh, right, Bengals are brown. So let's backtrack. Saturdays
the sixth, Fridays the fifth, Thursday's the fourth. Wednesday is
the third. So like that first, like Wednesday practice, I
am anticipating, like, oh, there's rumblings, there's rumblings. And then
like on like midday Thursday, full on tray watch, is
he gonna show up? Is he not gonna show up?
(29:12):
What's gonna happen? And then all day Friday, it's like,
could they get the deal done? You know, he could
still play if they don't, how many snaps can he play?
Pitch count?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
And then Saturday, you know, like aj Green on the
bus before they fly to Cleveland, signs the deal and
he plays like a dozen snaps against the Browns as
totally winded, doesn't do anything, and they lose.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
But I mean a couple of years ago, right, Joe Burrow,
as they were kicking off in games. Yeah, Jamar Chase,
I don't know, Maybe I will play, Maybe I will
the morning of the opener, the morning of the opener,
and now this will be a try to hit the
trifectit three years in a row, and they'll be down
to it and then you know whatever, everyone will figure
out whatever it is and be like and then we'll
(29:57):
all look at each other and say, why did it
have to be like this? You know, for again in
the same vein as Stuart. For Trey's sake and the
Bengal's sake and everything. I hope that they can find
something that works. It certainly feels like this is gonna
go the way so many of these Bengals negotiations go.
It's just a game of chicken all the way down
to the wire until somebody blinks and betting on Hendrickson
(30:22):
giving in to some capacity because there is preces into
that in the past. I mean, they've had these things
happen every single year, and eventually Trey has played and
played really well, and I'm sure that there's some banking
on that that they can win that game of chicken again.
Is Quarterback aired on Netflix.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
He wrote a piece about Joe Burrow and his attempts
to kind of thread the needle between being a public
figure and maintaining some privacy.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
I'm sure you've watched every episode. I thought it was.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Outstanding, and I say this, remove the Bengals part of it.
I just think it was such a well done show.
I walked away from a bigger fan of Cousins and
Jared Goff and obviously, you know, still a huge fan
of Joe Burrow.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
What did you make of how he and the team
and the league were portrayed. I thought, I'm with you
if that was really well done. You know what I
thought was my favorite stuff from the entire show was
just everything Burrow and Jamar. Yes, Like I thought all
of the Joe Jamar, their families, Jimmy Chase, you know,
(31:26):
Jimmy and Robin Burrow, that that table was really fun. Yeah.
The conversation that Burrow and Jamar have on the practice field, Yes,
about the route that Justin Jefferson ran against Georgia, and
point like when we talk so much trying to like
tangibly quantify and talk about why their connection is so
(31:49):
special and what makes what separates them. That's the stuff
like that is a the anecdote of all anecdotes that
they caught right there of this is part of what
makes and has made these guys so and unstoppable. Yeah,
because they have a counter that they intuitively can pick
up on quickly every for everything that a defense throws
(32:10):
at them, and then it's everything that involved Joe and
Jamar and there was a bunch of it in the
borough stuff was my favorite part of the entire show.
I just thought giving a little bit deeper appreciation and
feel for that relationship was a really cool, unexpected part
of it that I enjoyed.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Yeah, that's exactly the scene that we have referenced on
this show is the best part of the Quarterback. And
I only got to watch the last two episodes last night.
Could you imagine if in Cincinnati Joe Burrow walked into
a sport clips.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
And waited to get a haircut. I'm sorry clips great Clips, yeah,
SORRT clips. Yeah. I could envision that, could you? Yeah?
I mean some sort of stampede of people running in there.
It wouldn't last long.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Her Cousins, there was no stampede, No sitting there reading
a magazine waiting to get his haircut.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
No, I mean good for him. Is it as on
braind as it gets for Kirk Cousins on that one,
which I appreciated, But no, I love I really liked
the show and I thought the you know, the end,
Burrow on the couch eating the sandwich, eating the sandwich, yes,
kind of laughing cheeps in that game you can do yes,
(33:25):
And I think he felt like everybody else, and I
thought that was a cool, uh, a cool thing to see.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
You know.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
It's funny because that afternoon, I was sitting on my couch.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Uh, I don't remember what I was eating, but I
was eating something and I turn it on and again
we were all the same way. After about five or
six minutes, it was abundantly clear how that game was
gonna go, and all you could do was just laugh.
And you know, Joe even said, like, you know, it's
we put ourselves in this position. I can't control this,
and there was there was that to me, but there
(33:56):
was just this like yeah, of course, of course, of
course then against them. So in that moment, Joe was
doing what the rest of us were doing with for
the most part, the same reaction.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, all of the insight is sort of his real
emotions about everything that went on last season. Like, I
really liked how it's put in front of you, something
that we spent a lot of time talking about last year,
but you know, you never have a total feel about
And that's like Joe really grappling with his reaction to losing. Yeah,
(34:29):
to dealing with failure like that for the first time
really on the field, and how under gaining this understanding
about how what he says, how he acts, how he
reacts affects everybody. His ability to know when to speak
and try to influence the room, whether it be across
(34:50):
to the defensive side of the ball, or to his
own teammates, or to ownership, like coming to terms. I
think they did a great job of showing him figuring
that out on the fly for the first time and
kind of growing. And it makes me kind of fascinated
to see how much different or how much better he
will be at that after going going through it. We
(35:11):
spent so much time talking about it, and we would
you know, he was lip reading every week. But to
see that and see him kind of get a better
handle on it and how he handled with it, handled it,
I really enjoyed that aspect of seeing it too.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Your colleague Mike Jones has listed the NFL's overrated and
underrated teams. He writes that the Bengals are overrated.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
It's July fifteenth. Someone has to be rated in some way.
I mean, what else we do it? I guess that's
what we're doing. I cool? I mean, you know, why
is it every time I log on social media people
are fighting about Joe Burrow? He explain this to him. Always,
(35:54):
every single time I log on somewhere, every the first
thing I see is people are mad about something debating
Joe Burrow. And I don't know, how does that always happen?
Like three hundred and sixty five days a year. I
feel like, I feel like how we talk about quarterbacks
is just so stupid. Guys are good, yes, like they're
(36:15):
all really good. Why are we doing this? I use
a perhaps somewhat crude way of putting it. We talked.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
ESPN ranked them as third best, you know, using input
from talent people and personnel folks, and not that dissimilar
for Mike Sando, though Mike's tier rankings are much more
nuanced and a lot more thorough. But my take was, okay, fine,
he's the third best quarterback.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yeah whatever.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Can you have a conversation about who the best guy
in the league is and not include Joe Burrow?
Speaker 1 (36:45):
No, you can't.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
If you prefer Lamar Jackson to Joe Burrow, that's fine.
I'll take Joe and I'll be happy. And my take
was It's like, if we have a chance to date
supermodels and you want the first pick, fine, I'll be
happy with whoever second, yeah or whatever.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I'll be really really happy. How we talk about these
guys is I think at times toxic and it's exhausting.
The indignation over your guy versus this How how could
you possibly? And then that just the back like I
don't understand, Like to me, it should be much more
of an appreciation of how how all of these guys
(37:20):
win differently and they're great in their own ways, and
they've been able to lead teams to heights like the
having to just scream and yell about parsing between it.
But if Burrow, I don't know if I just see
it more because it shows up more for me. But
the polarization around him, I just don't understand why there's
(37:41):
always that conversation out there every single day.
Speaker 5 (37:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
First of all, I don't know how you could pay
attention to his career and conclude that he's not an
upper crossed guy. I don't know how you could look
at the issues the Bengals have had last two seasons
and have your mind instantly good to a place where
it's Joe Burrow's fault. I don't understand that. I view
(38:05):
it this way, man, Like, I think the league is
at its best when we have a lot of awesome
quarterbacks to watch, to talk.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
About, to compare with each other. We get great games.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Like I I know, I wish the Bengals would have
been playing in the postseason last year. I couldn't wait
to watch Lamar Jackson versus Josh Allen in a playoff game.
When I think of being a kid and falling in
love with this sport, I think of the quarterbacks Marino, Montana, Moon, Lway,
Kelly Boomer, Cunningham, Phil Simp Like. Some of those guys
(38:37):
are Hall of famers. Some of them are just really
good players. But like those, there were a bunch of
really good quarterbacks which made the league fun. I've also
lived through stretches where we haven't had a lot of
really good quarterbacks. Now we got a bunch, man, that's
a really good, healthy place to be. And the team
here has one of those guys. Yeah, so if you
think he's the fourth best quarterback, dude, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
I don't care. We have one of those guys, and
that's good enough for me and I just you know,
I know there's always a lot of Bengals fans wanting
to go after these people, and I'm like, I just
it's only fueling, you know, this this storm unnecessarily like
whatever that you have, what you have in Burrow, Like
(39:18):
you know what you have. The guy has been to
the super Bowl, He's beaten Mahomes, He's he's played at
an MVP level, like you you know, he can go
in and beat absolutely anybody. The like I'm gonna go
fight people over whatever, the regular or like can't really
being affected and caring and drawing to go say stuff
because a national voice says a thing about Joe Burrow,
(39:40):
Like I just don't think you need to do that. Well,
there's there's nothing. I mean, Steve Spagnolo on quarterbacks, yes, yes,
hey besides our guy, you're the best. Yeah. And I
would point to Sando's tears because that is that is
players and executives and people within the league doing this
and giving it the credence of the ones that really know.
(40:03):
And Burrow has been up in that like you don't
need to worry about that stuff, you know, I get it,
Like it's something to do. It's July fifteenth, and I
get it all. I wish there was so much less
of that.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
But this is why, like, sometimes I'm not sure if
I can do this job anymore because I don't care
enough to fight somebody. Yeah that they don't think the
quarterback of my favorite team is the best.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Go say that a team can't win a super Bowl
with Joe Burrow a quarterback, like and I mean, what
are you talking about? Things like? It's ridiculous to even
utter a sentence like that. Are you you should ask
this about your life? Are you happy with what I have?
If the answer is yes, who cares? And if I'm
a Bengals fan, which i am, I'm happy that Joe
Burr is the quarterback of this team. I'm good.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
Good.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
You need you need a top eight guy to win
the Super Bowl, No One. And if you have that,
it's all the rest of it. What happens around them decides,
you know, And that includes luck, and that includes roster management,
and that includes that guy staying healthy, and that includes
guard play, and that includes a lot of things. But
you know what, if you have that guy, you have
(41:07):
a chance uh to do it, and you have one
so late, don't get a sheep about it. All right,
I screwed up the clock.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
We have to go.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Thank you as always my pleasure and it's good to
have you back. Good to be back.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
The Growler Podcast Theathletic dot Com Paul has the end
of the off season and the start of training camp covered.
You did a podcast with Jay Morrison on the Fan Survey,
Fan Survey and more coming up later this week.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
That's that's right. We had Josh sned on if you
Wire to Laugh with Mark salif Yes with his new special.
We had a ton of fun on that one. Uh
and a lot more stuff coming this week. Mock turtle
soup on Monday. You're excited, Joe, I love it. It's
big all right.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Five away from four o'clock. We have a two hours
to go. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
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(42:20):
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Enter it now, ESPN fifteen.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
It is really really hard to ruin the home run
Derby and yet ESPN managed to you last night. So congratulations.
I mean that is that is like screwing up a
beverage of duncan tonuts. What's up on ba Legger? This
is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thanks for listening. We'll get to
that coming up in the four o'clock hour show previews
on Twitter thanks to Emery Federal Credit Union, your credit
(00:34):
union with hard since nineteen thirty nine. Go to Emery
FCU dot org. He's back after about a month little hiatus,
little sabbatical. Paul Danner juniors with us from The Athletic
and the Growler podcast. Bengals training camp starts next week.
So it's it's awesome to have you. It's not Tuesdays
(00:54):
are not the same without you.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
It's good to be here. I missed it. I don't
I don't like us not having this time to gather. Agreed,
And I feel better not come entire equilibrium of the show. Yeah. Well,
and I feel like my my routine is off. I
don't feel right, but I'm excited about this. The good
news is we've got cool, fun news that I'm sure
that you'll bring up that I'm really stoked about. I
(01:18):
had to have a conversation with myself. Yeah, okay, Yeah,
am I gonna just like not, I'm gonna vow over
Camp no matter what happens. I'm just not gonna talk
about the first round pick. Okay. Like that's how this is.
That's what I want it to be. And I feel
like it's a stance worth taking right now, okay, because nothing,
(01:40):
nothing that you hear or see is gonna be worth
your time, you know what I mean. It's like it's
just gonna it stirs stuff up, none of it. It's
all all.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I have fifteen segments today. Four of them, four of
them planned right now, are about the Bengals first round pick.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, I did it.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I'm sort of gonna push back on this just a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I get it. I just don't want it to this
to be what it is. I just don't want this
to be what it is. You knew it was, I mean,
we all knew it was coming. Yeah, it's only gonna
be worse. I just I think I'm I'm willing to
take some time where I say I'm not going there, okay,
but I'm happy.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
To accept with you of course. Thanks, you're the extense
very much. You're thanks very much. Well camps here. It's
coming up, starts next week. You guys got mock turtle
soup coming up. That's gonna be big. Yes, lots of
moving parts lock going on. It's exciting, It is exciting.
I get I get very excited. Mock turtle soup is
a fun time. We'll talk to Mike.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
There's topics there, and you know, I'm excited to talk
about things happening on the field that I think has
been obviously under discust. So we did, uh we did
a show right before I went on vacation where we
did a draft. It was me and Charlie and Jeremy
(03:03):
ralfrom Fox Sinny team. We did a draft of the
most interesting Bengals for this upcoming season. It was so
refreshing to just to just have these conversations where we're
just let's talk about the team. Yeah, it's really like
this team is really interesting, as they usually are, and
I found it to be incredibly refreshing. I just I
(03:24):
think we'll talk about the fan survey. Yeah, everyone is
over it. I understand we're gonna have to talk about
all this stuff, and whenever there's gonna be all this stuff,
the field feels like a great place to turn our
attention to and I'm very happy for it to show
up next week. Yeah, it's interesting. While you were away.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
At one point, I was on with Tony and Austin
during the end of their show and Tony brought up
Pro football focuses rankings of offensive lines, and I almost
had to like recalibrate myself, like, wait a minute, Shamar
Stewart's not an offensive lineman. Ray Hendrickson's not an offensive lineman.
Huh okay, yeah, yes, yes, let's talk about some of
(04:06):
those guys, right. And it's I even said to him,
like that was a good segment because it was just
talking ball, right, you know what I mean. It's just
and and a huge part of the team that I
feel like can go in any in any number of directions.
And I think you could say that about a lot
of the components of this team. It is I'm not
sure how many roster spots are going to.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Be up for grabs.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
But even if you remove the Hendrickson and Shamar Stuart
things from the equation, which you really can't do, but
if you try, you're left with, I think at a
deeply fascinating team and a deeply fascinating roster at a
really interesting time in the franchise's history.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, I think you've got a team that's kind of
at a crossroads moment in terms of there's already been
some implications to the last two years and what's gone wrong,
and that's clear, whether it's lost jobs, whether it's a
fan base that's that's turtling or turning. I should say
(05:05):
they might be turtling too. Wow's turning. All of these
things that are happening, and you have a team that
has all the POTENTI that can win the Super Bowl. Like,
that's not a thing that anybody should be uncomfortable saying.
That's how they're positioned, that's how they're positioned offensively, and
(05:28):
they're trying things on defense. There's reason, there's a path
to believe, but you gotta like see it come together.
It's something that very much could come together, and there's
also a path for a disaster scenario. I just think
that the range of outcomes are very wide here, and
you have this window of Joe Burrow, T Higgins and
(05:50):
Jamar Chase and you only, you know, you never know
how many rips you have at it, and it just
seems to be a lot on the line right now,
where one more year of what has gone on the
last two years feels like it has massive implications up
and down, you know, the roster and the coaching staff.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I finally finished Quarterback. Yeah, watched the final two episodes
last night because the home run derby was terrible, and
I was reminded watching the last two episodes, like, yes,
they fell short of the postseason, and yes there was
immediate fallout from nine to eight and missing the postseason,
(06:31):
but during those last five weeks that was kind of fun. Yeah,
And during those last five weeks we were starting to
feel pretty good about where this may go. And then obviously,
you know, all that was played played up against the
backdrop of the T. Higgins conversation pivoting very very suddenly.
But I'm I'm watching the last two episodes last night,
and I'm like, you know, I really enjoyed watching that
team down the stretch, that offense last year was awesome,
(06:52):
and for an off season that has been defined, at
least in terms of how we've talked about them by
some reason unpleasant things like when they stopped playing football
last year. I felt like, all right, get one or
two things fixed, and I'm watching that team in late
January again this coming season.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
That can still happen. Yeah, I don't think that the
process of the way that they've done things has been terrible.
There's been problems along the way in terms of not
supplementing more, whether it be in free agency or you
can you know, obviously have issues with certain draft picks
or whatever. But like, I think they're in a good place.
(07:29):
They have a chance to have number one offense in football.
They have taken a reasonable path to fixing that defense.
That one that builds on those last five weeks, That
builds on what you saw was when they felt like
they found a way to connect with young players, which
was through this oversimplification and changing back to something just
go play. Granted asterisk on the quarterbacks they went against there,
(07:53):
but you know it was it was notably better and
it seemed to bring out a little bit more in
a lot of young players that they let play let
the young guys play, let them play free and get
more out of it. And you know, if Al Golden
comes in and does build on that, that's the construction
of a team that is ready to do it.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Man.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And I think that we spend so much time on
the other stuff with whatever's gonna happen there, and whatever's
gonna happen is gonna happen. But what remains is enough
I think to be right there in the mix with Baltimore,
to be right there in the mix with Kansas City
and Buffalo and the other teams that are mentioned in
the AFC and anybody in the league because of the
(08:38):
momentum and what they have building offensively, in the possibilities
of what they have on defense. I mean I was
outlining this before. They have nine top one hundred draft
picks that are going to be in a significant rotation,
and all of them have had struggles at one point
in time or the other or whatever. So if Al
(08:59):
Golden is able to get a majority of those guys,
five six of those guys to start to live more
up to their but what they have been at times
or the potential of those draft picks, I refuse to
believe they all are terrible. These were all bad picks, right,
I just don't see that.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
If that comes out, that's I mean, that's it. That's
what we'll define this team being really interesting. As much
as we spend ninety percent of the conversation on Hendrickson
Stewart in the front office, what's gonna happen with those guys,
those nine guys is going to be what matters over
the course that we watch over camp, over the preseason,
and over the early portion of this season to see,
(09:36):
you know, if there is a ceiling on this team,
specifically because of the defense.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
You and your other thirty one counterparts were asked to
name a breakout candidate for this season, and I was
before I opened it. I was trying to guess who
it would be. And it's kind of doing that thinking
who I would say it was going to be. We
did not have the same guy I had Joseph Osaig. Oh,
you had Cam Taylor Brick.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Yeah, yeah, I had Cam Taylor brid I just I
like where he's at, where he seemed to be at
mentally this offseason. I like what he has on tape
in the past when he's been right, and I like
betting on this setup to get him, right. I just
think that the things feel like they're going in the
(10:19):
right direction with him. You could have picked. I mean,
Chase Brown was certainly on my list, but I was
almost uncomfortable calling him a breakout because of what happened
the second half of last season. But then I think
after I filled that out, some list came out that
he wasn't even in like the top twenty running backs. Er,
yeah right, he did a top ten.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, then they did honorable mention and then they did
like also receiving votes.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, Chase Brown was nowhere to be seen. Yeah. I
was tempted to come off my vacation to change my
answer that I had put in for that because I
was just like, I don't I just some surprise people
don't view him in that light. Yeah, when you consider
what he was doing last year. But I understand people
maybe not paying at ten because of the other stars.
But man, like he is set up to have it.
(11:03):
He so maybe maybe I would replace him knowing that now,
But defensively, I still think, you know, Cam Taylor Britt
has a chance to be you know, contract to your stuff,
can be, can be a real guy that finally lives
up to I think what a lot of the hype
has been. Whole segment to start the hour. There we go. See,
(11:25):
I'm whatever, we will do it whenever we gotta do it.
I I'm here for whatever you need. I want you
to be happy. We have a I have a long
season ahead of us. It's gonna be you know, long
winding roads at the end of the year. So you
know I'm here for you. I know you are.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I have four segments blocked out to talk about the
Bengals first round draft choice. I'm gonna do those four
segments regardless, but I can wait till that for four o'clock.
If you if you, I'm I'm happy.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
You have to be.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
I think the word is malleable. When you have this
job you do, yeah, and I will, I will do.
Give me one of those. Give me one of those. Okay,
very good.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Paul Danner juniors here from the Athletic dot Com and
the Growler Podcast.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Uh, you do the annual fan survey, right, do this every.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Year and the results are not great, not great, surprising,
I would say a little bit.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I was even even with anticipation. Yeah, surprising. All right,
we're gonna do that next. It is sixteen minutes after
four o'clock. Paul Danner Junior is here sixteen minutes after
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here till four. I'm here till six. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
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Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic.
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Speaker 1 (13:05):
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Speaker 1 (13:16):
This report is. This is ESPN fifteen to thirty.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Paul Tayer Juniors here from the Athletic dot Com and
the Growler Podcast. Bengals training camp begins next week. Paul
does an annual Bengals fan survey at the Athletic dot Com.
The results are in of all the different questions that
(13:40):
you pose to fans, which series of answers surprised you
the most.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I think how hard they turned against ownership in the
front office kind of collectively. I think it was something
that we all, like I anticipated obviously, I mean, we
know what we I do still have an x account
with mentions, and so I'm well aware of the feelings.
(14:06):
We all know what's going on. But I felt like
there would still be some residual connection to what in
the past has actually been a trend that gave them
some gave ownership some respect for what they were doing.
You know, trust levels were at all time highs. I
mean despite the fact that you know, they hadn't made
(14:27):
the playoffs or whatever was going on, they still were
rarely rating a one with least confidence or even two
with low confidence. The past three years they were down
in the you know, between one and ten percent when
you combine those two categories, and then in this one
it was eighty percent vote for those two categories. And
(14:49):
it's just when you see it in front of you,
hopefully and dramatically shifts to see that big of a
shift in one off season. I think what was bigger
than I would have anticipated. And it just shows the
exhaustion that exists from all of the haggling over contracts
(15:09):
that has been going on for twelve months. Really going
back to Jamar last dear and to see it that
dramatic shows a fan base that is over it, man like,
just over it. It's and it's affecting their belief. So
you look into then going how confident are you that
this team is headed in the right direction? I mean,
(15:30):
these were that was a really high percentage people saying
very confident in the last three years, even with the losing.
It was still even even with not making the playoffs
in twenty four was lingering over Burrows injury, it was
still a really high number. You still had fifty eight
percent saying four and another thirty percent saying five. This
(15:50):
year you only had twenty five percent with four or five,
and that number shifted dramatically. You have this huge number,
this vast majority of fans don't even think that it's
headed in the right direction anymore. Now, there were a
lot one thing I would do want to say, there
were a lot more people that responded to this survey
about twenty five percent more than we'd had in the
(16:12):
previous three or four years. Because what makes people want
to go fill out surveys, Right, I'm mad and I
want to hear it. I want to hear it, and
so I think that sort of reflective of the same
thing as well. Maybe a lot of people did just
show up there that don't vote in the past to
just go throw in once. But I think that is
the point as well, is that it's moving people to
(16:36):
do things that they maybe even weren't doing before because
they want to be heard. You know, you had a
fan base that thought in the will the Bengals win
a Super Bowl in the next three years question, I mean,
the answer was yes in twenty twenty two, eighty four percent.
Twenty twenty three, it was ninety three percent. Last year,
it was eighty one percent this year, all the way
(16:57):
down to a fifty to fifty split. Don't see the path.
People feel like they're losing on the margins. People feel
like all of the things that are happening off the
field are stealing this. You can feel them saying we're
losing Joe Burrow's window, which I think is something that's
rightfully reflect totally fair. It's rightfully reflecting. I just think
(17:19):
the amount of which you saw it turned specifically against
sort of the ownership element of this was more than
I anticipated what I think it would.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Have been interesting had you done this exercise in March.
But I was thinking about this as I was going
through the results that you know, the early March press
conference Jamar and T feels like a lifetime ago.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I don't believe.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
And I say this sitting here every day, I see
this looking at the results of a survey like yours,
and I hear this justin talking with just friends of
mine who are Bengals fans. They didn't enjoy the post
Jamar and T extension pr bump that I thought they
(18:03):
were going to enjoy. And I'm sure that they thought
they were going to enjoy. I think most people looked
at that press conference as yeah, it's fun. But you
know when you hear immediately afterward, while we had to
devote so much energy to these two guys that it
cost us here and it came at the expense of
having to devote a lot of time to this, Like
I think it's interesting, this thing that we had been
talking about for so long that most people wanted they got,
(18:27):
and yet there's still skepticism and exhaustion with how they
do things because the.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Process matters, Like it's not about the end results. It
can't just be hey, we got these guys done, yeah,
but you alienated them in the process.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
It was this.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
It was this whole exhaustive thing to get there, and
when you do it that way, you end up where
you know it. You don't even get the pr bump
that you really want out of it because you know
how hard it was, because there's been so much mud
that's been slung back and forth before, between requests and
everything that happened with Jamari Camp and everything else, just
to get to that point, and to the point you
(19:05):
even have t saying the word finally in the press conference,
and it's just like, the process matters. Fans are so
much smarter than they've ever been. They understand this stuff.
For maybe in the past five, ten, fifteen years ago,
this stuff there wasn't as much of a feeling of
having a grasp on how you can win and lose
(19:27):
in the NFL. Because of this stuff, fans get it now.
Fans have a much better understanding of this side of
the game. And they see that it's more than just
throwing a couple of big wins out there. Hey, we
signed Jamar and t It's so much more than that.
If you're gonna compete and really try to win a
Super Bowl, you're gonna compete with, you know, the Eagles
(19:47):
and the Chiefs and the rest of these teams that
are out there doing it in different ways maybe, and
so the process matters. I think is sort of the
message of that that you get the pr bump when
people know you did the right thing and you did
it the right way. I think right now they're trying
to do a lot of the right things, but I
think in some cases they're just not doing it the
(20:07):
right way, and fans see through all that.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Now that's survey the results, the Athletic dot Com or
by the way, one of Paul's colleagues calls the Bengals overrated.
We'll get to that coming up here in just a bit.
Get your thoughts on quarterback on Netflix and.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
All right, man, you said you'll do it, I'll do one.
He said you'll do it, I'll do one.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Shamar Stewart has not yet signed with the Bengals, but
could he go back and play college football in Texas
A and.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
We have to do it next on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Sincy three sixty with Tony Pike.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Do we want to move on?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
For doctor Keith Gorse and Boston Elmore.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I think you should continue.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Let me keep going there, Sincy three sixty tomorrow which
twelve News on ESPN fifteen thirty. Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
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Speaker 4 (21:28):
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Speaker 3 (21:49):
Pregame coverage starts at seven o'clock Tomorrow night. We have
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All Star Skills Challenge. Congratulations to him. That match tomorrow
night is on ESPN fifteen thirty as well. Paul Danner
Juniors here from the Athletic dot Com. So Shamar Stewart
(22:09):
has yet unsigned. On the Cover three podcast, I am
not going to play the audio now, but I'm going
to play it in the next hour for folks who
haven't heard this, but the panelists debate whether or not
Shamar Stuart could actually attempt to go back to Texas
A and m U.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Flor well smell dug. Yeah, well, I will say one
the the Schamar is back there practicing with the team.
I mean what capacity, Okay, players do that. Yes, there's
a lot of players that do their summer workouts there.
(22:52):
You know the idea that this, I mean, I think
this clearly sounds like, hey, we'll go back to school.
This was gonna scare him. I I've been around this
team for a long time. It has now gone so
public to the point that there is no like, it's
(23:14):
it's gonna be old school digging in from the Bengals
that they're not move gonna move like, that's not something
that they're not gonna get influenced by this. It would
be the most stunning outcome be the Bengals being like,
you know, I don't want him to go back to ski.
He might go back to school, he might leave the
(23:35):
money on the table, he might take his chances and
come back. That's just that would be the most emergency.
You know, what's he's my station. What are we gonna do? Yeah,
that's not gonna impact anything. And then you know, I
(23:57):
just kind of laugh about the idea of like, but
what if they get a rookie year where the first
round pick doesn't quite contribute, Well, that would be very
much the same as what has seemed to happen most
years around here. It has happened before. Red shirt red
shirt here we go, red shirt year there. I guess
are very convoluted, complicated ways in which something like this
(24:19):
could happen. If you think that it's for the betterment
of your career professionally to go back and whether it
sit out a year or be involved in a bunch
of lawsuits and then re enter a draft after you
didn't want to report and sign language that exists with
other players in the draft next year. I think, you
(24:41):
know that's highly all you ares, buddy, you know, if
that's it, I just I hope this gets resolved. For
Shamar Stewart's sake. I go back to that every single time.
It just feels like the adults, supposed adults in the
room are failing at this player. Yeah, and it's just
(25:02):
it's he's the one that's gonna deal with this, the
impact of it, and it's gonna hurt the Bengals. Everybody
is hurt by the way this is going down. And
but the idea of him going back, I mean, I guess,
and plus the NFL impact here, the NFL is like, yeah,
(25:24):
this is not a precedent that we're gonna stand by
and politely let happen. They go, I don't know, No,
the NFL is gonna have zero interest in anything of
this capacity. So then what does the NFL do if PU,
if push were shove I mean, I'm sure there's there's
They have plenty of ways to get involved. I mean,
(25:45):
I'm sure that they could get involved however they wanted to.
I mean, outside Schamar going back and being like, I'm
not going to participate in sport until next year's draft
is probably his clearest path if that's something he really
wants to.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Do, pointing out there's a difference between him not playing
at all and sitting out and then he played.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
If he played, the Bengals would retain his rights. So
if he's still have to come back and deal with
the bank. So if he just if he were to
somehow unless he unless he decide again, unless we're in
lawsuits and it's like it's twenty twenty nine and they're
still trying to work out this and they're in.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Court, Like, but I want to make the distinction clear here.
So if he were to somehow figure out a way
to play college football next season, regardless of whether he
is good bad, whatever happens, the Bengals at the end
of that season would control his rights. Yes, if he
decides I'm not doing anything I'm gonna set out, then
he can re ender the draft.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
But he can't re enter the draft and play college
football this coming season.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Not under the current setup, right, I said on my show,
I said on this show yesterday, I'm just you know,
even in your fan survey you asked about people taking sides,
and actually, as it relates to both Trey Hendrickson and
Shamar Stewart, I was surprised that so many people really
aren't taking sides. My side is I just want one
(27:07):
side or the other to be hit by a.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Bolt of common sense. Uh where.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
If it's the Bengals, it's come on, man, like, just
let's kick the can down the sidewalk. As it relates
to the language and the contract to next year, get
the dude here, Cam starts next week. Let's cross this
off the list and then worry about Trey Hendrickson and
try to get him done and go in the Super
Bowl this year. Or I'm hoping that a bolt of
common sense hit Shamar and you go, you know what,
(27:32):
this is not how I want to start my career.
This is not how I want to start my chosen profession.
This is not how I want to launch my relationship
with the Cincinnati Bengals, And it's not how I want
to start my relationship with pro football. I don't think
that bolt is coming. It feels like right now neither
bolt is coming. No, I agree, I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I will say, though we have we're still a week
away from the day where a Marius MEM's signed last year.
Uh huh. So I'm and I'm not. I'm just say sure,
it's not like Maria.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Smims had done the waiver was going to work out,
but there was also issues sitting in his locker, popping
off on.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
His nor no question. I'm just saying, though deals have
gotten done at this point in time, including just last year,
which had different language than the year before. So I mean,
I'm it's not like there isn't some bit of precedent
there to that there's ways for them to figure out
a way to fix it. I'm you know, but you're right.
(28:28):
It just it it feels like something that is gonna
be ongoing. What about Trey Hendrickson, something that's definitely going
to be ongoing. I mean, I don't that's doesn't it
feel destined to go like all these things do I have?
I've joked about this, and maybe with you, but I've
joked about like, all right, so the season starts on
(28:51):
the seventh, right, Bengals are brown. So let's backtrack. Saturdays
the sixth, Fridays the fifth, Thursday's the fourth. Wednesday is
the third. So like that first, like Wednesday practice, I
am anticipating, like, oh, there's rumblings, there's rumblings. And then
like on like midday Thursday, full on tray watch, is
he gonna show up? Is he not gonna show up?
(29:12):
What's gonna happen? And then all day Friday, it's like,
could they get the deal done? You know, he could
still play if they don't, how many snaps can he play?
Pitch count?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
And then Saturday, you know, like aj Green on the
bus before they fly to Cleveland, signs the deal and
he plays like a dozen snaps against the Browns as
totally winded, doesn't do anything, and they lose.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
But I mean a couple of years ago, right, Joe Burrow,
as they were kicking off in games. Yeah, Jamar Chase,
I don't know, Maybe I will play, Maybe I will
the morning of the opener, the morning of the opener,
and now this will be a try to hit the
trifectit three years in a row, and they'll be down
to it and then you know whatever, everyone will figure
out whatever it is and be like and then we'll
(29:57):
all look at each other and say, why did it
have to be like this? You know, for again in
the same vein as Stuart. For Trey's sake and the
Bengal's sake and everything. I hope that they can find
something that works. It certainly feels like this is gonna
go the way so many of these Bengals negotiations go.
It's just a game of chicken all the way down
to the wire until somebody blinks and betting on Hendrickson
(30:22):
giving in to some capacity because there is preces into
that in the past. I mean, they've had these things
happen every single year, and eventually Trey has played and
played really well, and I'm sure that there's some banking
on that that they can win that game of chicken again.
Is Quarterback aired on Netflix.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
He wrote a piece about Joe Burrow and his attempts
to kind of thread the needle between being a public
figure and maintaining some privacy.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
I'm sure you've watched every episode. I thought it was.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Outstanding, and I say this, remove the Bengals part of it.
I just think it was such a well done show.
I walked away from a bigger fan of Cousins and
Jared Goff and obviously, you know, still a huge fan
of Joe Burrow.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
What did you make of how he and the team
and the league were portrayed. I thought, I'm with you
if that was really well done. You know what I
thought was my favorite stuff from the entire show was
just everything Burrow and Jamar. Yes, Like I thought all
of the Joe Jamar, their families, Jimmy Chase, you know,
(31:26):
Jimmy and Robin Burrow, that that table was really fun. Yeah.
The conversation that Burrow and Jamar have on the practice field, Yes,
about the route that Justin Jefferson ran against Georgia, and
point like when we talk so much trying to like
tangibly quantify and talk about why their connection is so
(31:49):
special and what makes what separates them. That's the stuff
like that is a the anecdote of all anecdotes that
they caught right there of this is part of what
makes and has made these guys so and unstoppable. Yeah,
because they have a counter that they intuitively can pick
up on quickly every for everything that a defense throws
(32:10):
at them, and then it's everything that involved Joe and
Jamar and there was a bunch of it in the
borough stuff was my favorite part of the entire show.
I just thought giving a little bit deeper appreciation and
feel for that relationship was a really cool, unexpected part
of it that I enjoyed.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Yeah, that's exactly the scene that we have referenced on
this show is the best part of the Quarterback. And
I only got to watch the last two episodes last night.
Could you imagine if in Cincinnati Joe Burrow walked into
a sport clips.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
And waited to get a haircut. I'm sorry clips great Clips, yeah,
SORRT clips. Yeah. I could envision that, could you? Yeah?
I mean some sort of stampede of people running in there.
It wouldn't last long.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Her Cousins, there was no stampede, No sitting there reading
a magazine waiting to get his haircut.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
No, I mean good for him. Is it as on
braind as it gets for Kirk Cousins on that one,
which I appreciated, But no, I love I really liked
the show and I thought the you know, the end,
Burrow on the couch eating the sandwich, eating the sandwich, yes,
kind of laughing cheeps in that game you can do yes,
(33:25):
And I think he felt like everybody else, and I
thought that was a cool, uh, a cool thing to see.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
You know.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
It's funny because that afternoon, I was sitting on my couch.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Uh, I don't remember what I was eating, but I
was eating something and I turn it on and again
we were all the same way. After about five or
six minutes, it was abundantly clear how that game was
gonna go, and all you could do was just laugh.
And you know, Joe even said, like, you know, it's
we put ourselves in this position. I can't control this,
and there was there was that to me, but there
(33:56):
was just this like yeah, of course, of course, of
course then against them. So in that moment, Joe was
doing what the rest of us were doing with for
the most part, the same reaction.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, all of the insight is sort of his real
emotions about everything that went on last season. Like, I
really liked how it's put in front of you, something
that we spent a lot of time talking about last year,
but you know, you never have a total feel about
And that's like Joe really grappling with his reaction to losing. Yeah,
(34:29):
to dealing with failure like that for the first time
really on the field, and how under gaining this understanding
about how what he says, how he acts, how he
reacts affects everybody. His ability to know when to speak
and try to influence the room, whether it be across
(34:50):
to the defensive side of the ball, or to his
own teammates, or to ownership, like coming to terms. I
think they did a great job of showing him figuring
that out on the fly for the first time and
kind of growing. And it makes me kind of fascinated
to see how much different or how much better he
will be at that after going going through it. We
(35:11):
spent so much time talking about it, and we would
you know, he was lip reading every week. But to
see that and see him kind of get a better
handle on it and how he handled with it, handled it,
I really enjoyed that aspect of seeing it too.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Your colleague Mike Jones has listed the NFL's overrated and
underrated teams. He writes that the Bengals are overrated.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
It's July fifteenth. Someone has to be rated in some way.
I mean, what else we do it? I guess that's
what we're doing. I cool? I mean, you know, why
is it every time I log on social media people
are fighting about Joe Burrow? He explain this to him. Always,
(35:54):
every single time I log on somewhere, every the first
thing I see is people are mad about something debating
Joe Burrow. And I don't know, how does that always happen?
Like three hundred and sixty five days a year. I
feel like, I feel like how we talk about quarterbacks
is just so stupid. Guys are good, yes, like they're
(36:15):
all really good. Why are we doing this? I use
a perhaps somewhat crude way of putting it. We talked.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
ESPN ranked them as third best, you know, using input
from talent people and personnel folks, and not that dissimilar
for Mike Sando, though Mike's tier rankings are much more
nuanced and a lot more thorough. But my take was, okay, fine,
he's the third best quarterback.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yeah whatever.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Can you have a conversation about who the best guy
in the league is and not include Joe Burrow?
Speaker 1 (36:45):
No, you can't.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
If you prefer Lamar Jackson to Joe Burrow, that's fine.
I'll take Joe and I'll be happy. And my take
was It's like, if we have a chance to date
supermodels and you want the first pick, fine, I'll be
happy with whoever second, yeah or whatever.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I'll be really really happy. How we talk about these
guys is I think at times toxic and it's exhausting.
The indignation over your guy versus this How how could
you possibly? And then that just the back like I
don't understand, Like to me, it should be much more
of an appreciation of how how all of these guys
(37:20):
win differently and they're great in their own ways, and
they've been able to lead teams to heights like the
having to just scream and yell about parsing between it.
But if Burrow, I don't know if I just see
it more because it shows up more for me. But
the polarization around him, I just don't understand why there's
(37:41):
always that conversation out there every single day.
Speaker 5 (37:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
First of all, I don't know how you could pay
attention to his career and conclude that he's not an
upper crossed guy. I don't know how you could look
at the issues the Bengals have had last two seasons
and have your mind instantly good to a place where
it's Joe Burrow's fault. I don't understand that. I view
(38:05):
it this way, man, Like, I think the league is
at its best when we have a lot of awesome
quarterbacks to watch, to talk.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
About, to compare with each other. We get great games.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Like I I know, I wish the Bengals would have
been playing in the postseason last year. I couldn't wait
to watch Lamar Jackson versus Josh Allen in a playoff game.
When I think of being a kid and falling in
love with this sport, I think of the quarterbacks Marino, Montana, Moon, Lway,
Kelly Boomer, Cunningham, Phil Simp Like. Some of those guys
(38:37):
are Hall of famers. Some of them are just really
good players. But like those, there were a bunch of
really good quarterbacks which made the league fun. I've also
lived through stretches where we haven't had a lot of
really good quarterbacks. Now we got a bunch, man, that's
a really good, healthy place to be. And the team
here has one of those guys. Yeah, so if you
think he's the fourth best quarterback, dude, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
I don't care. We have one of those guys, and
that's good enough for me and I just you know,
I know there's always a lot of Bengals fans wanting
to go after these people, and I'm like, I just
it's only fueling, you know, this this storm unnecessarily like
whatever that you have, what you have in Burrow, Like
(39:18):
you know what you have. The guy has been to
the super Bowl, He's beaten Mahomes, He's he's played at
an MVP level, like you you know, he can go
in and beat absolutely anybody. The like I'm gonna go
fight people over whatever, the regular or like can't really
being affected and caring and drawing to go say stuff
because a national voice says a thing about Joe Burrow,
(39:40):
Like I just don't think you need to do that. Well,
there's there's nothing. I mean, Steve Spagnolo on quarterbacks, yes, yes,
hey besides our guy, you're the best. Yeah. And I
would point to Sando's tears because that is that is
players and executives and people within the league doing this
and giving it the credence of the ones that really know.
(40:03):
And Burrow has been up in that like you don't
need to worry about that stuff, you know, I get it,
Like it's something to do. It's July fifteenth, and I
get it all. I wish there was so much less
of that.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
But this is why, like, sometimes I'm not sure if
I can do this job anymore because I don't care
enough to fight somebody. Yeah that they don't think the
quarterback of my favorite team is the best.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Go say that a team can't win a super Bowl
with Joe Burrow a quarterback, like and I mean, what
are you talking about? Things like? It's ridiculous to even
utter a sentence like that. Are you you should ask
this about your life? Are you happy with what I have?
If the answer is yes, who cares? And if I'm
a Bengals fan, which i am, I'm happy that Joe
Burr is the quarterback of this team. I'm good.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
Good.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
You need you need a top eight guy to win
the Super Bowl, No One. And if you have that,
it's all the rest of it. What happens around them decides,
you know, And that includes luck, and that includes roster management,
and that includes that guy staying healthy, and that includes
guard play, and that includes a lot of things. But
you know what, if you have that guy, you have
(41:07):
a chance uh to do it, and you have one
so late, don't get a sheep about it. All right,
I screwed up the clock.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
We have to go.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Thank you as always my pleasure and it's good to
have you back. Good to be back.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
The Growler Podcast Theathletic dot Com Paul has the end
of the off season and the start of training camp covered.
You did a podcast with Jay Morrison on the Fan Survey,
Fan Survey and more coming up later this week.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
That's that's right. We had Josh sned on if you
Wire to Laugh with Mark salif Yes with his new special.
We had a ton of fun on that one. Uh
and a lot more stuff coming this week. Mock turtle
soup on Monday. You're excited, Joe, I love it. It's
big all right.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Five away from four o'clock. We have a two hours
to go. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center.
Speaker 5 (41:58):
You see Health Brain Tumor Center find's answers for some
of the most complex brain tumors. Learn more at UCHealth
dot com. Westbound Ronald Reagan Highway, there's an accident at
Galbreath on Martin Luther King. It's another accident at Redding
Road got a broken water main on Dixie Highway between
Beechwood and seventy one. Seventy five traffic using these southbound
(42:20):
lanes to get through there, so use extra caution as
that is part of your travels on at Ezelic with traffic.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
This report is sponsor
Mo Egger News
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