9/15/25 - The Tony & Mo Football Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week, the Bengals play the Minnesota Vikings, which reminds
me Prince Squiz from Minnesota. Now it's time for the
Bengals to bring the Purple Paine. Will they slay the Vikings?
Get the coal live from Dan Horden Dave app Coverage
begins Sunday morning at nine am. Stream for free on
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(00:23):
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(00:44):
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(01:08):
the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well here goes enough. What's up? Good afternoon, Moheggar with
Tony Pike.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
It's the Tony and Mo Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty,
a show that is aired now for this is our
eleventh year, which means it's not the first time that
we have been at Twin Peaks or been together to
talk about a Bengals quarterback getting hurt.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
We have a lot to discuss.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
The good news is Zach Taylor has already spoken yes,
and which gives us a little bit more time to
talk about, well, yesterday's victory over the Jacksonville Jaguars and
how the Bengals proceed now for the foreseeable future without
Joe Burrow. We're at Twin Peaks in Westchester. We're at
the Florence location next week. This is the sixth year

(01:53):
the Twin Peaks has hosted us. We cannot thank them enough.
If you haven't been to Twin Peaks, tonight's good night
to do it. You got two Monday night football games.
The Reds are continuing to play meaningful baseball.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
Two and a half back.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yes, after getting swept in Sacramento this weekend. You could
watch all those games. You can watch the Reds. You
can watch the two Monday Night football games tonight if
you're thinking ahead of this weekend Bengals Jags, Jake Browning
versus Carson Wentz college football this weekend, it's a bye
week for the Bearcats, and Tony is just gonna sit
here at at Twin Peaks all day on Saturday. We're

(02:27):
right off the Union Center Boulevard exit off I seventy five.
Awesome food, great staff, terrific beer selection, and a lot
to discuss between now and six o'clock.

Speaker 5 (02:37):
Hi, Tony, Hey, mo Man for spending an entire offseason
talking about a fast start. Never thought I'd feel this
terrible after a fast start. Yeah, two and zero. You
can make the argument that in deserve you to win
either one of the games. But they're opportunistic on defense,
which is great. But since since Joe Burrow has been

(02:58):
a Bengal and we've been doing this show together, we
have had one constant as that is protecting Joe Burrow.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
And by the way, because I think this needs to
be pointed out, it's not just Joe gets hurt behind
this offensive line.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Even when he's.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Healthy, he's constantly under duress. They put him behind an
offensive line in a Super Bowl that had two of
those guys on that offensive line never play in the
NFL again. No, maybe the worst offensive line to ever
take the field in the Super Bowl, and so yes,
one of the common themes is Joe gets hurt a lot,
and we will discuss but a common theme across the
chorus of every single game that Joe Burrow has played

(03:35):
in questions about the offensive line. Tony Austin Elmore just
asked us toward the end of your show, since he
three to sixty, how we both felt.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
We both said, pissed off.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
There are a lot of different angles to explore here,
and we have three hours to do so. I've done
a handful of radio interviews today, and I've talked with
people in other markets, other cities who have asked, what's
the senate, what's the mood? How does everybody feel? This

(04:04):
is just me.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
I can only speak for myself.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
It is unbearably frustrating when you root for an NFL
team and you know your team has a legitimate dude
at quarterback.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
Legitimate yep.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
There are no questions of authority. How good Joe Burrow is, none, none, whatsoever.
You know, at the most important position, the hardest to
fill position, arguably in all of sports, You've got a
dude and.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
You still can't win with him, either because you.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Don't support him, you don't surround him well enough, or
you can't protect him. It is that to me as
a sports fan. There's lots of things that frustrate you.
There's lots of things that disappoint you. That to me
is the most frustrating. It pisses me off to a
degree that I can barely articulate to know that they have.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
One of those rare dudes. They've got one of those guys.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
They've got one of those guys that other franchises in
decades hoping they could get. They've got one, and yet
the franchise is still running in place because they can't
take advantage of him and they can't protect him.

Speaker 5 (05:09):
There are two things that immediately came to mind for me.
One is the anger, and I think the anger that
anyone's feeling is justifiable, because if you followed along to
anything you and I have done, we've talked about the
old line and the way it just doesn't fit. Since
Joe Burrow's been here, and since Joe Burrow's been here,
and every time he goes through an injury, and every

(05:31):
time the year after he's got to go back for
comeback Player of the Year, we say the same thing,
you better do more to protect the guy.

Speaker 4 (05:37):
You better do more to protect the guy.

Speaker 5 (05:39):
You and I finished at twin Peaks last year, historic
year for Joe Burrow and said you better make sure
you protect him this offseason because he played every game last.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
Year but took a ton of hits.

Speaker 5 (05:50):
Thirty second in past block win rate was the offensive
line last year, that's dead last in the NFL.

Speaker 4 (05:56):
And all we did all off season.

Speaker 5 (05:58):
Heh, here's fair Child, here's Lucas Patrick, Here's Dalton Reisner.

Speaker 4 (06:04):
No one felt confident.

Speaker 5 (06:05):
About that now and at the rear of that Orlando
Brown juniors seemingly taking a step back. Carris is, okay,
they have no depth. We saw that when Cody Ford
came in for Marius Mims yesterday. The term malpractice gets
thrown around a ton. Show me how it's not it's malpractice,
and to say it's the offensive line, yes it is,
But what about the offensive line is that You can't

(06:26):
just say they have dudes that suck, right, Either it's
a talent problem, it's a skill problem, or the protections
are an issue, the coaching is an issue, the scheme
is an issue under Zach Taylor, or the talent evaluation
under Duke Tobin is a problem because we spent countless

(06:49):
times last year saying what it just doesn't feel like
the personnel matches the scheme, and we going into the
offseason and said, Zach Taylor and Joe and Duke Tobin
got to sit down and figure out what this is
going forward. But here we are again, and I'm wondering
for a team that ran up for two yards of
carrying week one, two point eight yards per carrying week two,
has Joe burrowhart again, does the scheme and the personnel match?

Speaker 4 (07:12):
And I don't know the answer.

Speaker 5 (07:13):
And the fact that we're still questioning that as Joe
Burrow is now out is maddening. And anyone that's pissed
has the right to be pissed.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
Well, I am, and I have the right to be.
And you mentioned Duke Tobin. I use the term common denominators. Okay,
we've tried different offensive line career of them, right, three
of them under Zach Taylor, but their offensive line issues
pre date each of them. They predate Zach Taylor they
predate Joe Burrow. The last time the Bengals had a good,

(07:43):
really good offensive line was twenty fifteen. Twenty sixteen. That
unit took a step back at the end of that season.
Whitworth walks, Zeitler walks in March of.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
This coming year. That'll be ten years ago.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
So for ten years they've been trying to rebuild an
offensive line. It hasn't been because they haven't spent money.
It hasn't been because they haven't used early round draft choices.
That's been well documented what they've attempted to do. But
I'm interested in the results. Obviously, when your quarterback gets hurt,
and when he gets hurt on a play like yesterday
where the pocket collapses very quickly, that's what we talk about.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
But the offensive line is also responsible for run blocking.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
It's responsible for giving the quarterback time to throw and
not having him having to improvise all the time, not
having to have your wide receivers go.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
In a scramble drill.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
It's been forever since they had a good, like a
good offensive line. It's been well documented how bad they've
been at pass block win rate over the last six years.
But their issues on that side in that area of
the team go back almost a decade. So that's before
the head coach, that's before any of these offensive line coaches.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
It's before all of these players.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
So I start with Duke Tobin, and the question that
I have is the same question I would be asking
him today if I were Mike Brown or Katie Blackburn.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Duke, why can't we get this right?

Speaker 3 (09:06):
It's easy if it happens once to default to, but
the offensive line failed Joe Burrow in a vacuum. Okay,
things like yesterday happened, but they happen here all the time,
and it's tip of the iceberg when you look at
the other issues the offensive line has presented this team,
like run blocking, like normal pass protection, like count It's
been an issue now for a while. And so what

(09:28):
I would want to know, and what I want to
know now is Duke, why haven't you been able to
fix this? Why does this keep happening? Why regardless of
who the head coaches, or where the quarterback is or
where the offensive line coaches, why do we continue to
talk about the offensive line being a liability.

Speaker 5 (09:44):
I think there are great examples of what we mean
when we say meshing the talent with the scheme right
Kansas City's going to right now. As good as Mahomes
has been in his prime, they've always had the ability
to run the ball when they need to. They can't
run it right now. They're zero and two. Look at
the other side of the fence. MVP of the league
last year or who Josh Allen? Josh Allen's game this

(10:07):
weekend Pedestrian fourteen to twenty five. They ran it for
five point one yards of carry. Buffalo has an MVP
quarterback and has now built their scheme to say, man,
James Cook is a good back, Let's build around that
because there's something there. The Baltimore Ravens adjusted their scheme
and their talent evaluating when Lamar Jackson became the quarterback,

(10:28):
and then they re upped it when Derrick Henry became
the running back. You know that the scheme in Baltimore
exactly matches the talent that they bring in the scheme
in Buffalo right now. That's why they're having success, That's
why they're a super Bowl favorite, is because the scheme
matches exactly who the roster is. Who is this roster
because what did we spend all offseason talking about protecting

(10:52):
Joe Burrow and then in week one, the first drive
of the season, what did they try to do. We're
gonna pound it in between the tackles with Chase Brown.
That's not who they are. Tell me how many sacks
Dunton Raiser. What was Dalton Raiser's PFF run blocking grade.
He's terrible as a run blocker. These guys that they
have aren't good run blockers. But you want to be

(11:13):
the run run first team. You want to be the
in between the tackle. You can't be that your scheme
doesn't match the personnel. And to your point, that goes
to Duke Tobyn, doesn't go to the three offensive line coaches.
You could say maybe Zach Taylor because they need to
communicate more. Sure it'say, okay, maybe I need to adjust
my scheme, But you can't say it's the top of
the organization because they've spent money. They've spent money. We've

(11:37):
camped out at Kenwood to see if Layel Collins is
still in town. They got Orlando Brown junior, they drafted
Dylan Fairchild.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
They've tried to draft other players. Let's not get into.

Speaker 5 (11:47):
Jackson Carman, who was a high draft pick and fizzled out.
That's a talent evaluating problem. They've used draft picks, they've
used free agency, They've tried to develop everything you could
possibly try to do, and they have failed at it.
And that is now a problem in the organization and
it has led to year six of Joe Burrow now

(12:08):
being wasted. This is not talking about year two or
three anymore. Right, six years in the NFL is a
long time wasted.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
And when we say wasted, we include years where he
played every game. Yes, Like I put this on a
Twitter thread last night, Like, that's what I keep thinking about.
That's what I keep thinking about. Last year, he actually
survived the entire season.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
He was awesome. He was great, the.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Best single season any Bengals quarterback has ever had. Statistically,
you couldn't even get to the playoffs in an era
where the playoffs have never been more watered down. But
you mentioned what they've tried to do. Like, I keep
coming back to previous coaching regime. Duke Tobin was there
when they drafted Cedric a Bwayheat, Nope, was there when
they drafted Jake.

Speaker 4 (12:49):
Fisher from Wentworth, Nope?

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Was there when they moved on from Andrew Whitworth and
Kevin zeitlerpe Nope, was there when they drafted Billy Price,
not Lamar Jackson, Nope, like we can even We're not
even gonna talk about the other positions he's whiffed on.

Speaker 4 (13:03):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (13:03):
So I mean Jermaine Burton, McKinley Jackson, no third and
fourth round picks from a year ago that aren't active anymore.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Not even active for games.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
So like this offensive line thing isn't about yesterday, It
isn't necessarily about this offensive line. I'll bet you this
offensive line performs better as the season moves on. Fine,
I'll grant you that. But for a while now, for
a long time now, the Bengals have had substandard offensive
line play. And when you have substandard offensive line play,
the likelihood of stuff like yesterday happening is amplified. And

(13:35):
it's now happened three times in less than six full seasons.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
How many hits last year?

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Practice?

Speaker 5 (13:41):
How many hits last year did you hold your breath
on watching the TV for them to pan back to
Joe Burrow and see him.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
Up Miles Garrett in Week one?

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Right?

Speaker 4 (13:49):
Lucky to get up from that hit, right, right?

Speaker 2 (13:51):
It's just not.

Speaker 5 (13:52):
Oh, he takes a couple of big hits a year.
And then I hear he holds onto the ball too long?

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 4 (13:58):
That's an argument.

Speaker 5 (13:59):
He was one of the fastest in the NFL last
year at snap to getting the ball out. And then
it's well, he's trying to make too many things happen.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
What he's a.

Speaker 5 (14:08):
Competitor, who's Houdini like in the pocket. So yeah, if
he's got to extend, he's gonna take kids. What would
you rather him do?

Speaker 2 (14:15):
What was he supposed to do in that play yesterday?

Speaker 4 (14:16):
Correct?

Speaker 2 (14:17):
What's he supposed to do?

Speaker 5 (14:18):
And the fact is everything that you just highlighted, the
greatness of Joe Burrow almost overcame all of that.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Almost almost.

Speaker 5 (14:26):
They went to the super Bowl with the worst offensive
line ever assembled.

Speaker 4 (14:29):
They almost won a super Bowl.

Speaker 5 (14:31):
And that is the greatness of Joe Burrow, who for
another year now you have wasted.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
I need a ball knower to explain to me on
that play yesterday what he is supposed to do, because
I have seen this argument.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well, his style lends itself to injury. Oh yeah, it does.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
If the style is try to not get sacked, that's
what I'm looking for on that play yesterday.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Legitimately, what is Joe Burrow supposed to do? Correct? Pocket
is collapsing, He's trying to not take a sack.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
What you want to get rid of the ball and
do hand it to the guy who's trying to tackle him?

Speaker 6 (15:04):
What?

Speaker 2 (15:05):
What is.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
What is he supposed to do that? I am dumbfounded
by that argument?

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Is is there a world where.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
You could say, look, Joe is maybe gonna have to
take some plays where he doesn't quite play hero ball
and dial it back a little bit. Fine to me,
that comes with experience and age. But if you look
at the plays where he has suffered debilitating injuries, I
don't know on any of them what he is supposed
to do.

Speaker 4 (15:29):
But what else do you want?

Speaker 5 (15:30):
I hear people that, well, he needs to go under
center more because Jake Browning goes under center. The greatness
of Joe Burrow, for everything that we highlighted about last
year is who he is and what he's.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
Able to put him closer to the guys. And that's
what we want to do.

Speaker 5 (15:43):
Really, Yep, that's what we want to It's just between
that and the amount of toll experts that I've met
in the last twenty four hours. Huh has been remarkable.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
I called my pediatrist and told him like.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
Yeah, sorry, man, I don't need you anymore. Just at
the game yesterday, I ran into four or five. Did
not know that we had so many feet and tow
and pedaemic experts in our midst There's obviously a lot
of ground to cover.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
We're here till six o'clock.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
I am going to run a conversation with an actual
docta with a foot expert coming up at four twenty.
Because the timeline that is being offered that has been
reported by Adam Schefter is and.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
You pointed this out minimum three months.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
I want to know from an expert's opinion if his
experience meshes with what is being reported. We'll do that
coming up in just about an hour. You mentioned something
about Jake Browning and Joe Burrow that I want to
bring up to you when we come back. We're here
till six Westchester, twin Peaks, Tony and Mo Football Show,
ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station, and then after three

(16:46):
o'clock this is ESPN fifteen thirty Moeggor with Tony Pike.
It's the Tony and Mo Football show at Twin Peaks
here in Westchester, right off I seventy five the Union
Center Boulevard exit. I will say this really quickly. I
came from the Dayton area. So if you are coming
from north of town, yeah, I had to be in
Dayton for a lunch appointment. Lots of revenue enhancement on

(17:10):
I seventy five. Yeah, So if you're if you're shoot,
I don't know what it's like south of here, but
if you're if you're coming from north, if you're Middletown, Franklin, Dayton, whatever,
sin Day Road, Tylersville, Wow, the Ohio Highway Patrol making
a lot of money today. Not on me, No I did.
I did take a deep sigh of relief when I,
you know, kind of looked.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
My rear view of Mere. I'm good. But just if
you're coming from that part of the area, yeah, take
your time, maybe not have quite the lead foot.

Speaker 5 (17:39):
We'll take your time because once you get to the exit,
it couldn't be easy. You're hearing under a minute.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
So uh many have pointed this out. Pro Football Focus
is Timo Risky tweeted this out. Bengals offensive line can
pass a combined pass blocking grade yesterday with Joe Burrow
on the field forty nine point nine with Jake on
the field, seventy three point one. In twenty twenty three

(18:04):
season where Jake started the last seven games, it was
sixty seven point two with Browning in fifty four point
six with Joe.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
What do you make of that?

Speaker 5 (18:15):
I think the easiest way that I'm making. I'm gonna
spend time this week watching over, over and over the
snaps of Jake Browning and Joe Burrow. To me, what
jumps out early on is it just feels like the
ability to go under center does help this team in
twelve personnel. It does help how they want to try
to run the ball. But early on, for me, it

(18:37):
feels like Jake Browning has put in some more advantageous situations.
I saw Joe Goodbarry mention this on Twitter. The problem is,
why isn't Joe Burrow put in those same situations? I think,
what are those situations? Easier reads, easier breakdown? I mean,
you see Joe Burrow changing a lot at the line
of scrimmage, so.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
You think they dumb it down for Jim, I think.

Speaker 5 (18:57):
I think it's dumb down Okay, I think it's dumbed
down to a point. Why down for Joe correct, because
he's so elite that you want to expand for him
and allow him to do more, would be my guest correct.
I also think there's just something as base to it,
as the defense doesn't respect as much of what Browning
is going to do then Joe Burrow, for instance, a
ton of drop seven rush for two high safeties. When

(19:20):
Joe Burrow is a quarterback, the Tinsley touchdown, the Higgins touchdown,
one high, Manda man a cross, we don't trust that
he's going to make a.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Play, and to his credit, he did. Sure he made
those plays.

Speaker 5 (19:30):
But the plays that Jake Browne made swing passes to
Jamar chase, fade passes, go routes that a defense doesn't
make available when Joe Burrow's in the game. They're going
to make it harder for whatever reason, on Joe Burrow
because they don't want him to dump it out quickly.
You're going to say, okay, show me that Jake brown
can do it. Which is why I worry now with

(19:51):
Brian Flores for a week to sit back and say, Okay,
he checked those boxes, he made the go route throw Tinsley,
Higgins simple go routes, Jamar Chase bubble routes.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
I would expect flora As will get a little bit
more creative with.

Speaker 5 (20:07):
His defense, but I think in game for Jacksonville, you're
kind of scrambling because now it's a new quarterback, completely
different skill set. Let's adjust, Let's bring that safety into
the box because you don't want to let a backup
quarterback run the ball, so let's do that. I think
they dumbed it down a little bit, and I think
a lot of it is the defense went to one high,
which you still got really good playmakers to Higgins, Tinsley

(20:30):
made an unbelievable play, and Jamar.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
Chase got the ball out quick.

Speaker 5 (20:34):
Why why they don't put Joe Burrow in those situations?

Speaker 2 (20:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (20:38):
Does Joe Burrow not want to go under center? Maybe
does Joe Burrow feel more comfortable in the shotgun when
he doesn't have to take his eyes on the defense.
Maybe that just might be what he's more comfortable with.
Whereas Jake Browning gets in and says, hey, call what
you want, Burrow might be at the point where I'm
not doing that. This is what I'm comfortable with I'm
ann elite quarterback. This is How'm going to operate.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
So when Joe comes back whenever that is, what do
you do? What do you do from his end to
mitigate the risk involved playing behind these offensive lines.

Speaker 5 (21:12):
Well, my biggest worry is that we've seen Jake Browning
in a small sample size and the team wasn't playing
for a ton at that time have a good track record.
We're so early in the season now, I feel like
teams can easily go back and watch what Jake Browning
did before, and within a game or two they're gonna
have an understanding of what the Bengals are going to

(21:33):
do with Jake Browning. My worry is early in the season,
the book gets out on Jake Browning and then you
see him start to go through some of the.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Same struggles offensively that Joe Burrow went through.

Speaker 5 (21:45):
Like with Joe Burrow, there's no ceiling to the offense,
there is a ceiling with Jake Browning. They can be okay,
They're not going to score thirty points a game with
Jake Browning. That's just not who it is. And there's
a reason that Jake Browning is a backup quarterback in
the NFL.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
My worry is.

Speaker 5 (22:03):
Three or four weeks from now, we're talking about this offense,
sputtering defenses. Have the playbook now on Jake Browning. And
then we go back to an unfortunate conversation that you
and I have had had too many times. Who's calling
the place? And it's a broken record for me. Zach
Taylor's a great head coach. Zach Taylor's a great locker
room guy. Zach Taylor's a great culture guy. I just

(22:25):
don't know how you can look at how the offense
functions gamed a game and say that he's a great
play caller who out schemes others. There was a point
last night at halftime Justin Jefferson got schemed wide open
over the middle. When is the last time the Bengals
had a wide open intermediate to deep shot over the
middle where you look and you're like, man, that play

(22:47):
design crushed it. It's normally what Joe Burrow moving around
making plays down the field, or the one on one
throws that Brownie made where Higgins makes a catch, sheds
two defenders, walks into the end zone, Tinsley makes a
one handed catch, Jamar gets yards after the catch. They're
so talented with skill guys. When's the last time you
really thought? Man, these guys are just operating with so

(23:09):
much space today.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
So I'll give you my current pet peeve, and I
mentioned it to you yesterday. Go back to the Browns game. Well,
the Browns are just a bad matchup. Oh yeah, seem
to be a pretty good matchup for the Baltimore Ravens.
By the way, Lamar Jackson ran for thirteen yards so
through four touchdowns.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
Don't have Chase, don't have Higgins, have good offensive skill players?

Speaker 4 (23:28):
Yeah right not.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
And so I'm we were talking about this on the
pregame show yesterday and I said, like this hole, Well,
the Browns are just a bad matchup.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
While I believe is.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
True, that can't be how we operate moving forward. They're
gonna play the Browns again this year. We'll see if
it means anything. They're gonna play the Browns twice every
single year, Like we're just gonna shrug our goalie, g
it's a tough matchup, or do you tell your coach
pal figure it out? Because if the Browns are such
a touch tough matchup for everybody, well then they shouldn't

(24:00):
come in last place, correct, right, So I'm watching highlights
of Baltimore and Cleveland. Yesterday certainly felt to me like
the Ravens figuring out a way to solve this team
that has great corners in Miles Garrett. Miles Garrett had
a sack and a half yesterday. So then that's where
I started to wonder about the play calling, the offensive design,
the scheme, and the coaching. Because these other teams can

(24:21):
figure out how to function, how to get guys open
who are not as good as Higgins and Chase against
the Browns, but our coaching staff, well, gollie gee, it's
just a tough matchup.

Speaker 4 (24:31):
Oh well, I can't reiterate enough.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
That's bad coaching.

Speaker 5 (24:34):
Can't reiterate enough. How much of a good coach? I
think he is from a coucher yeader ship. Yes, everything
you want, Yes, but damn I watched it on the
sidelines with Tommy Tupperville and Zach Taylor, and they scored
nineteen points a game, one twenty three out of one
twenty eight in college football and no offense. That was

(24:55):
in the American Athletic Conference. They couldn't do anything. Then,
consecutive quarters is at ten twelve. Oh yeah, like we
see it all the time. Right, there are coaches that
are good coordinators and bad head coaches. And I think
there are coaches that are good head coaches and bad coordinators.
I just don't think that Zach is a great scheme guy.

(25:18):
I think he is great with Jamar Chase and T
Higgins and Joe Burrow, And to be quite honest, how
many people wouldn't be. Right now, we are going to
see a large sample size where you are going to
have to out scheme defenses in order to win. So,
whether you trust or believe or listen to my opinion

(25:40):
or not, Joe Burrow's having surgery, Jake Browning's the guy.
They don't have an other worldly quarterback? What we see
going forward? Can Zach Taylor out scheme the opposing defenses?

Speaker 2 (25:52):
All right? Hold that thought.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
We got to get a break in twenty four from
four because I do want to go back to when
Jake played an extensive amount of time in twenty twenty
three and see if there are some things we can
they can borrow from that stretch where he kept the
team afloat the offense functioned.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Okay, we'll do that when we come back. We're at
Twin Peaks in Westchester.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
The Week two edition of the Only Week two Week
two edition.

Speaker 4 (26:17):
Drinks are gonna be coming here.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
So The Tony and Mo.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Bridge begins Sunday morning at nine am on your official
home for the Cincinnati Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
Jake Browning versus Carson Wentz in that game on Sunday
Bengals and Vikings on ESPN fifteen thirty, Zach Taylor says
it looks like Joe Burrow is gonna need surgery now.
Adam Sheffer of ESPN shared more details than Zach Taylor
did hours before Zach's press conference, says gonna have surgery

(26:52):
on his toe. He is expected to miss a minimum
of three months.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
The good news continues. Shamar Stewart dealt for Sunday. He
is dealing. He is dealing with a low ankle spring.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
According to Kelsey Conway of The Inquirer, and JJ McCarthy,
who was terrible last night, is not going to play
on Sunday for the Vikings. He's got an ankle injury.
And so Carson Wentz will be behind center for Minnesota.
You can get more tonight on Bengals Line, which is
at six on ESPN fifteen thirty two. Monday night football
games tonight, Bucks and Texans Chargers and Raiders, both on

(27:27):
Fox Sports thirteen sixty. After a disastrous weekend in Sacramento,
the Reds are off to Saint Louis, first of three
with the Cardinals tonight. Zach Littel and Mac Liberator are
your pitchers. Seven forty five is Tonight's first pitch. Cincinnati
is a two and a half games behind the Mets
in the hunt for the last wildcard. New York is
off tonight Giants in Arizona, both in front of Cincinnati.

(27:49):
Those two teams played j other this evening. Cardinals are
four games behind the Mets. The Marx Tobs Radio Show
is tonight at six that is going to be on
Fox Sports thirteen to sixty. And the Evander named to
a Team of the Match day for his performance in
FC Cincinnati's thrilling victory in extra time with the Evander
Gold over Nashville on Saturday night. I got a couple

(28:11):
of poll questions. Okay, sportsbooks have adjusted the Bengals win
total to seven and a half.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
You can go, I give you three choices.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Over, over and in the playoffs are under And then
this to me is the most important one. Should Joe
Burrow still have to buy Christmas gifts for his offensive line?

Speaker 5 (28:29):
No, I, in fact would ask for the swords back,
and I would then give some of the guys weren't
here for this. I take the sword back and I
give him a pocket knife. I don't deserve the sword
at this point, I would. I'll still lean over, but
I'm not confident.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
And over in the playoffs, I think they're gonna win
like eight or nine games.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
My take before the season was they're a ten and
seventeam with Joe Burrow. I cannot assume, despite winning the
first two that you're a ten and seventeam without them.
I think Jake is a good backup quarterback. Sure, But
the longer the backup plays, yea, the more the books out,
the more the books out, by the way, and like

(29:10):
we said last, the more it then goes to can
you out scheme your opponent? And come and tell me
why you believe that they could outscheme an opponent. So
with Browning two years ago, they put him under center
and they started to run the ball more effectively. And
I remember having conversations with you about how do you
mesh how they're playing with Jake with how Joe wants

(29:32):
to play? Yeah, right, Joe doesn't want to be under center.
Joe wants to be in the gun. Joe wants to
get it, make reads and go with Jake, everything felt
a little bit more scripted. They started to use Chase
brown during that stretch two years ago. So based on
what we saw from Jake last year, if here's Zach Taylor,
how do you start to build game plans around what

(29:54):
he does?

Speaker 5 (29:54):
Well, that's that's my biggest worry. If you look at
the four games that Jake Browning won in twenty twenty three,
one hundred and fifty six team rushing yards five yards
per carry in a win. Another win, Joe Mixon ran
it for one hundred and eleven yards, only ran it
for three point five a carry, but he had thirty
two touches. Another win, Joe Mixon four point seven yards

(30:15):
per carry. Their last win of the year, one hundred
and eighty three team rushing yards eight or six yards
per car. That was against Cleveland. Was against Cleveland and
bad matchup. The losses win. Jake Browning was the quarterback.
They lost their first game to Pittsburgh sixteen to ten.
Joe Mixon had eight rushes sixteen yards. They lost thirty

(30:36):
four to eleven. As a team, they had fifty nine
rushing yards their other loss three yards per carry. Listen,
if Jake Browning will have any success, they will have
to run the ball. They'll have to run the ball
to set up play action, They'll have to move the pocket,
and they're gonna have to find easy completions. The issue
is two yards per carry in their first game just

(30:56):
under two yards per carry yesterday. Is this offense built
around running the ball? I know they wanted to be that, yeah,
but the emphasis was also pass protection. I don't have
it in front of me, but we can look at
Pro Football Focus grades for the five offensive line in
pass blocking versus run blocking, and I will bet that

(31:18):
their pass blocking grades are much better than their run
blocking grades. They're just not, in my opinion, an offensive
line built around running the ball. But you're not gonna
have success with a backup quarterback throwing the ball forty times.

Speaker 4 (31:31):
It's just not gonna happen.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
Something I neglected to mention during the sports headlines. The
Bengals have le as you might understand, inquired about free
agent quarterbacks who are out there, and they have also
reportedly as the Green Bay Packers about Malik Willis's potential availability.
Jake Browning is going to be the starting quarterback on Sunday.

(31:55):
Jake Browning's been the backup here for a reason. It's
because Zach Taylor talked about this today. They are comfortable
with him being planned B. If something happens to plan A.
But what would your approach be in relation to the
makeup of the quarterback room? And then if you did
acquire somebody the length of Jake Browning's.

Speaker 5 (32:15):
Leash, Well, I am acquiring somebody because I have to.
I'm just not gonna ride no offense. I'm not gonna
ride with ripping Is as your number two. My thought
around it all. I am great with the messaging because
I know it bodeswoll for the locker room as well,
to say we already got our guy.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah it's Jake Browning.

Speaker 5 (32:32):
Sure, it's also responsible to have a conversation with Jake Browning,
who is a backup quarterback and say you know what
this is. Yes, just as you were Joe's backup, We've
got to have one for you. And the thought behind
that is and.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Maybe a backup who has started me? Correct, Is that's
what you're looking at.

Speaker 5 (32:48):
Yes, And I'm promising. I'm saying, Look, we're not bringing
in someone to start for you. You're the starter. Yeah,
but there's an understanding. But your a leash is not
Joe burn if the leash is not that long, and
you can't if you're the Banks punt on a two
and o start. Nope, we don't know if Trey Hendrickson
will be back in another year. And by the way,
Trey Hendrickson was phenomenal. Yes, And something that's being overshadowed
is the fact that he played both sides. Al Golden's

(33:11):
got him moving right to left and talked about that.
That's awesome. But you're kind of all in with Trey
for this year. Jamar Chase again overshadowed. Great day yesterday,
fourteen one point fifty one sixty touchdown. You got Jamar,
You got t You can't just start two and oh
and say, oh Joe's hurt.

Speaker 4 (33:29):
Let's punt on the season.

Speaker 5 (33:30):
And let's play for twenty twenty six, so you don't
have the luxury of sitting on your hands and waiting
because the ultimate thing that goes wrong, Jake comes out
hull hum this weekend. Let's say they find a way
to win three and oh then he struggles again, struggles again,
and by the way at Denver Lions, Green Bay, good luck, right,

(33:51):
And then all of a sudden you're saying, well, now
we need to make a change. But you've waited and
now you've got to bring someone in and then get
them up to speed on the sea. I'm bringing someone
in today. Now get them up the speed. Allow them
to come along a little slower because it's Jake's job.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
But you can't pun on the season.

Speaker 5 (34:12):
So the second it starts to seem he's not getting
the job done, you kind of see why he's a backup.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
Right now. He's thought highly as a backup in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Oh yeah, and he should be.

Speaker 5 (34:22):
He's one of the top five backups in the league. Yes,
but backups don't translate over time. Good game, two games,
three games, absolutely admirable. When he came in and finished
the last seven. You got to be able with a
full season ahead of you, and the scouting report out
to bring a guy along, and if you need to
go there and make the change, you have to.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Okay, among the realistic possibilities, So let's cross Tom Brady
off the list.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Among the realistic possibilities.

Speaker 5 (34:50):
I'm in a contract throughout this year as well, either
as I'm out.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Either Okay, take yourself off the list, ye man to
take Tom off the list?

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Among all the other realistic possibilities, either as free agents
or players that could be traded, who would be the
most ideal.

Speaker 5 (35:09):
Guy among players that are on teams right now?

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Does Malik Willis do anything for me?

Speaker 5 (35:16):
I like Milike Willis, I have I have kind of
three that would be at the top of mine. Okay,
Malik Willis. I like Jamis Winston. I think Jamis has
been in some crappy situations and has shined in some
of those. I don't think he's ever had the personnel
like Jamar Chason T. Higgins, and I think from a
locker room guy, he's gonna galvanize people and kind of

(35:38):
rally around him. Jamis Malik Willis is still younger, so
he doesn't have the veteran presence and I don't. I
don't know because it was decided upon so quick and
the situation around him was terrible.

Speaker 4 (35:53):
What's Anthony Richardson in Indy? Right?

Speaker 5 (35:56):
Daniel Jones has now taken that job. The reports were
Richard him once out? What would they be willing to
talk about and maybe in a new place with a
new weaponry around him, Anthony richards it could be a guy.
He would be my third option. Malik Willis, and Jamis
will be to the top. Jamis's third string on the Giants.
You could probably give a six round pickup and get

(36:17):
Jameis Winston on your team right now, and I would
take that.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
I'd be fine with any of those, Yeah, Richardson, because
it's more.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
But James, if you're not punning on the season.

Speaker 3 (36:27):
I gotta be honest with you. I think Jamis would
just be fun. Yes, absolutely, Hey, Jamis would just it's
an experience.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
And I like Malik Willis. I like any of those options.

Speaker 3 (36:36):
They're not And I'm asking because he was here, not
because we're UC fans. This isn't pick up the phone
and call Dez, right.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
I don't think so. Like I love Dez, I don't
think so. Come On.

Speaker 5 (36:48):
I don't think it's he was just so bad in
that last preseason. I don't know how you can go
back to that. I the guy for me has to
be a guy. If Jake doesn't get it done, you
trust that he can come in and do it.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
But I'm with you.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
I think if you're going to do it, and clearly
they're canvassing the NFL, that dude's got to be in
the building like Wednesday.

Speaker 5 (37:10):
Yeah right, you don't have time to wait anymore. Like okay,
no offense. We've seen this offensive line. It takes one.
I need to get you up to speed.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
If Jake plays these next two and I go, oh boy, okay,
this ain't it. Because at that point I'm two and two,
I'm still not punning on the season.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
I need.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
I need somebody in my back pocket. And apologies to
Brett Rippon, I don't think he's the guy I want
my back pocket.

Speaker 5 (37:32):
You don't have the luxury now to say, well, Joe
will be back in four weeks.

Speaker 4 (37:37):
Let's just stay above water.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
Right.

Speaker 5 (37:39):
You have to be aggressive in this situation and you
have to take it week to week. And right now
I'm looking at an opportunity. Aaron Jones and JJ McCarthy
aren't playing this week? How many points do I need
to win? How can I get those points?

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Can I get twenty points this week? Yes? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (37:55):
And can I bring in a guy that if the
emergency happened and Jake gets banged up, that I can
go to and we can still win.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
Well, the thing is Jake Brown is going to be
playing behind that same offensive horror that just got Joe
Burrow hurt. Correct, So, like, who's to say we're not
sitting here at some point soon going yep?

Speaker 2 (38:13):
God, you know what.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Now they're down to the third guy, whether it's Brett
Rippon or somebody who's somewhere else.

Speaker 5 (38:17):
Tomorrow's they're off day. I would imagine you have one
or at least two guys in the building, get something
done and make it happen.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
All right, So you need another team to execute a trade.
The names you just mentioned, especially Jameis Winston, I can't
imagine like he's their third guy.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
What's gonna cost? Right?

Speaker 3 (38:32):
But I can't wait for another team to say yes,
So don't you have to sign a free agent like
now today?

Speaker 4 (38:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (38:38):
And then if down the road, another team's like, let's
say the Packers go cool, We'll give you Milik Willis.
If you like that more than the guy that you
just signed, then you say goodbye to that guy and
you have Malik Willis.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
But like, you need a third quarterback, you need.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
Somebody who you've got in your back. Don't you have
to get that done right now?

Speaker 4 (38:55):
What's Ryan Tannehill doing?

Speaker 3 (38:57):
That's a great question. AJ mcceron that car Is he
healthy yet? Derek Carr has talked about like wanting back
in Yeah, see healthy that. I don't know, It's just.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (39:11):
I again, I I don't know how you couldn't have
if you There are reports that they've talked to Green
Bay about Milike Willis. What is the conversation with the Giants?
They have no plan for Jamis this year? Correct, Tommy
devito'r des Ritard And I just.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
What was that?

Speaker 2 (39:34):
What was that? Uh?

Speaker 5 (39:35):
What was the Philadelphia guy who looked like Tom Brady
when he played against is that McKee? He looked like
the best backup in the history of the league.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
So what I.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
Remember last years, Malik Willis had to play a couple
of games and a very good head coach and Matt
Lafleur figured out a way to design an offense around
Malik Willis and they won two.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Games with him.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
Yeah, if I recall that correct, I know they beat
the Colts.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Did Love get hurt during that game?

Speaker 4 (40:03):
I think so?

Speaker 3 (40:04):
But they he played it and then he played the
next week against the Titans and they made it work.
And by all accounts, he's like a terrific dude. Jordan
Love is the guy there.

Speaker 5 (40:16):
You you are going to have to maybe give up
a little more because it's in season and teams aren't dumb.
Teams know now you're desperate, so they're gonna say, well,
wait a second, the asking price you know of of
yesterday is not the asking price of today. So with
understanding that, but again you're you're trying to to go

(40:36):
week to week and win. You've given yourselves a chance
to go finish it.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
We we do have the nuts and bolts of yesterday's
game to talk about, which we will get to. And
you mentioned something the Bengals shouldn't do but many have
said they should.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
We'll get to that.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
Plus we'll talk with an expert from Orthos since the
about turf toe coming up at four Twenty's.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
Also just a huge worry about Joe Burrow mentally.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
No question that is well.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
Between now and six, Twin Peaks in Westchester, Tony and More.
Football show on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 7 (41:05):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 8 (41:10):
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Speaker 6 (41:13):
The University of Cincinnati Cancer Center has the most comprehensive
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(41:36):
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Speaker 4 (41:44):
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(42:11):
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Speaker 3 (42:31):
Middle hour of the Toni and L Football Show, broadcasting
today from Twin Peaks in Westchester.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
We are here till six o'clock.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
By the way, we will be at the Florence location
next week and then the Tuesday after that. Since the
Bengals played the Broncos on Monday Night football, worry about
that later. We're here to talk about the two and
O Bengals. Yes, right off seventy five the Union Center
Boulevard Exit. Great places to watch Monday night football and
unbelievable white staff. Our friend Emma is taking care of

(43:01):
us today. Yes, the beer is cold, the food is good,
the staff is awesome, the TVs are plentiful, and there's
plenty of room for you here at Twin Peaks. Obviously,
the focus of today has been Joe Burrow and will
continue to be Joe Burrow in the offensive line and
what's next for this team? I do I don't want
to ignore the game itself yesterday, because it was a

(43:22):
really fun game if you take.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Away the Joe Burrow part of it. A great comeback
by the Bengals.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Just a couple of different things to touch on number one,
they were lucky to win. Yes, it's okay to say thankfully.
Brian Thomas decides at precisely the right time for Bengals
fans to make a business decision.

Speaker 5 (43:40):
Yeah, he made a couple. He dropped the fourth down
on the goal line when they decided to go for it,
and made a business decision on one of the interceptions
over the middle.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
There were a handful of drop balls yesterday that I
felt like Trevor Lawrence. Like Trevor Lawrence is a very
talented quarterback. Could you show him a thing or two
on how to put some toe?

Speaker 4 (44:00):
Just throw it a little harder next time. It's unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
I mean there were some arrolled as Chapman fastballs coming.
You know the direction to some of those receivers from
just a.

Speaker 5 (44:10):
Few feet Awson, I believe in the term water finds
its level. I thought they missed a interference call on
t Higgins early, Yes, thought they got away with one
on the Travis Hunter pass interference on the last drive
of the game.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
I'm glad the flag was thrown.

Speaker 4 (44:23):
YEP.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
If I was a Jacksonville fan, I beat I right.

Speaker 5 (44:28):
They got lucky at the end of the half. I
thought Travis Hunter should have caught the tip I mean
right in his hands. I mean there are there were
a lot, a lot of things yesterday. They they targeted
Brian Thomas twelve times. He caught four of them. But
but again, the defense was opportunistic. They made plays when
they were presented to.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
That until yes.

Speaker 5 (44:50):
I give them that. I loved something we talked about
a lot. Does Al Golden move Trey Hendrickson around? He
does has been a menace through two games this year.
And Jamar Chase, I don't think anyone didn't expect it.
Sixteen targets, fourteen catches, one sixty five.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
That's the part of this that has not been talked
about at all. Yeap, Jamar Chase was awesome yesterday.

Speaker 4 (45:15):
And for much of the day, I'm wondering where's t Higgins.

Speaker 5 (45:18):
Yeah, and then he has the forty two yard or
where he seemingly bounces off to defenders. I think Noah
Fense found a nice little rhythm on this offense. The
issue for me is going to be going back to
under three yards per carry, especially now with Jake Browning
taking over, is not going to win you many games.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
And we were just talking about this off air because
Zach Taylor made a reference to, you know, running it
forty times. I don't necessarily, although I think this change
is a little bit now with Jake Browning's quarterback. It's
not a matter of being a team that runs it
that much more often.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
We want them to run it more efficiently.

Speaker 5 (45:51):
Yeah, I don't mind. Chase brown Sixteen carries is fine. Fine,
Can I get sixteen carries for seventy yards?

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Right?

Speaker 4 (45:57):
Sixty yards? Right? You know?

Speaker 5 (46:00):
To two point five two point nine yards of carry
is not going to get it done, especially And what
I think the chess pieces now for defenses is to say, Okay,
why do we need to load the box against Jake Browning.
Everyone else can rush four and drop seven against Joe Burrow.

(46:21):
Let's rush four and let's make Jake Browning have to
navigate seven guys in the defensive backfield. Because Jake Browning
did what yesterday as good as he was also through
three interceptions.

Speaker 4 (46:32):
Uh, huh.

Speaker 5 (46:32):
I love the mentality of you know, don't let three
interceptions stop you from maybe throwing four. I get that aspect,
but I wouldn't. I wouldn't give any one on one
looks with one high safety to this Bengals offensive. Rippon's
playing quarterback right like, there's no point get home with
four until they showed that they can move around that.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
Jake throws a pick with just over five to go,
and that felt like to borrow from Dan Horde.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Coffin nails.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
Jacksonville has the ball at the Cincinnati twelve yard line
and I'm thinking this is this is bad. Hey, they're
deep in Bengals territory. B they can get a first
down and bleed some clock and then still score. They
end up facing a fourth and five at the Bengals
seven yard line. They don't kick the field goal. I
thought Liam Cohen made the right decision there.

Speaker 5 (47:18):
Yes, field goal doesn't make it a two possession game.
Touchdown still beat you. At that point, you're trying to
end the game, and if you don't end it, you
think the worst case scenarios. They go down to the
backup quarterback and get a field goal. Credit to Jake
Browning from making the place. They were aided along the
way with the pass interference on on Travis Hunter. But

(47:40):
again back to back weeks, opportunistic team. They they've taken
advantage of other team's mistakes. Yes, and they have themselves
two and oh.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
It's so bizarre because their two and oh record feels lucky. Yeah,
you can't call a team that just lost its meal
ticket for a minimum correct.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Correct.

Speaker 4 (47:58):
It's such a weird place to be in. I don't
even know.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
I don't I don't know how to I don't know
how to navigate it for the bank. So you brought
this up before.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
I was listening to Unsportsmanlike this morning, and the hosts
of that show were collectively making the case that it's
time for the Bengals to kind of hit the reset
button and trade Trey Hendrickson and trade t Higgins, with
the logic behind that being, Look, this year's cooked. You
don't have plans for Trey beyond this season, so go
ahead and move on with t Look, you need to

(48:30):
invest as much as you can in the offensive line,
whether it's money, whether it's draft capital, and you could
free up some money and maybe get some draft capital
for tea. I certainly will entertain that possibility, specifically with
Trey as we get closer to the trade deadline.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
Yeah, I'm not there yet, though, I think.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
Under no set of circumstances, I think you would have
a hard time with that team telling them after two games.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
We're punting, we're punting.

Speaker 5 (48:54):
No, you you again, you're in all in mode. You
have to continue operating in that mode. And if not,
then you readdress it four or five.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Six weeks from now. Sure if they lose.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
Their next six games and we started talking about the deadline,
I mean, sorry, that's one thing.

Speaker 5 (49:10):
I'm not entertaining anything about that right now. Right you
imagine that two and oh, but we're kicking or punting.
I can't happen.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
I don't know. I would revolt. I don't know what
most Bengals fans would do. I would have a hard time,
biggest slap in the face ever.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
I would have a hard time addressing that team going,
here's what we're gonna do, guys, Right with this backup
quarterback who has proven he can win games here with
the talent we have, we're hitting the eject button on
the season.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
I couldn't do.

Speaker 5 (49:39):
That and are you gonna hit the eject button every
time Burrow would to potentially get hurt, right because the
core of the team around Burrow is still there.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
And I hate to say this because again it's minimum
three months, but I guess there's a world where Jake
gets you in and then Joe could play.

Speaker 5 (49:56):
Yeah, you know, Zach talked earlier today that they should know,
they should know later this week.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
What that timeline more so looks like.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Yeah, I just.

Speaker 5 (50:11):
It's as Paul Danner Junior pointed out, or dinner dinner.
According to some Scott Hanson, it's unprecedented. So until you
get in there, you see the severity of it, you
get it healed up, you're not gonna know what it
looks like. And then we discussed this morning how's he
gonna rehab, how's he gonna stay in shape? And when
he gets back, you're just gonna is the is the

(50:33):
old line gonna be this fortress or he can just
sit back there because's probably gonna have to move and
cut a lot after that, sure, and then you just
run more of a risk with it. So it's a
hard situation. But I just I don't find the scenario
right now where you can punt.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
And I'm not sure anything has been offered in terms
of specifics as to when exactly he's gonna have the surgery.

Speaker 5 (50:52):
Yeah, I would imagine once you are aligned, it's gotta
be asap. You would think, I fear that he's under
the knife tomorrow, right, and so if.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
It's like three months from surgery, okay, well, right, is
the surgery techic?

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Is it today? Is it technic?

Speaker 3 (51:07):
When?

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Is it all? Right?

Speaker 5 (51:08):
Ideally it's not one of those where you gotta like
wait for the swelling to go down. You should be
able to get in there and get it taken care of.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
So that'll be one of the questions that doctor Nick
Gates from Ortho SINSI addresses.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
We do it on our show on Wednesdays.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
But I felt like with all the questions about Joe
Burrow and the specifics of this injury, it made sense
to get one of the doctors on with us today.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
So you'll hear that conversation.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
Because as much as it was great to meet so
many amateur pediatrists.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Yeah yesterday, So this is an actual professional, This.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
Is an actual medically licensed trained doctor. Great got an
MD on his name tag after his name, Great so
you'll hear our conversation with him when we come back.
Seventeen minutes after four o'clock. Tony and Moll Football Show
here at Twin Peaks in Westchester on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
Oh Wow.

Speaker 6 (52:00):
From the UC Health Traffic Center. The University of Cincinnati
Cancer Center has the most comprehensive blood cancer center in
the nation. The future of cancer care is here called
five one, three, five eight five UCCC.

Speaker 7 (52:14):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 6 (52:18):
Traffic east bound two seventy five at Springfield Pike. The
right lane blocked off from an accident. West found Ronald
Reagan Highway. Right two lanes blocked off just before the
top of the ramp to Coal Rain and five mile Road.
Traffic signals out at Old five mile on that ezelic
with traffic.

Speaker 4 (52:37):
This report he spawned Tory Box.

Speaker 9 (52:39):
This is football in the NATI, brought to you by
Modern office methods on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home
of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Twenty five after four o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty
on Moeger. We are broadcasting so Tony I Loo Football
Show broadcasting from Twin peaks in Westchester.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
We typically chat with one of.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
The xs from Ortho Sincy on Wednesdays or Thursdays. But
I thought, because of not just the player involved here,
but the nature of the injury and all the questions
that everybody had, I thought we'd have our conversation today.
So doctor Nick Gates from Orthos Sincy is this. We
do this on a weekly basis. The great thing about
Ortho since is they have specialist locations and services across
the Tri State. This includes walk in orthopedic urgent care

(53:27):
at five locations with extended evening and weekend hours in
Edgewood and Anderson. Learn more at Orthosinc dot com, Ortho
ci Ncy dot com. Doctor Gates, let's start by talking
about turf toe. What is a turf toe injury? Where
is the injury on the big toe located? And why
is this injury so debilitating?

Speaker 10 (53:49):
Take yourself to your big toe, makes everyone understands it's
the bottom of your big toe. You're right, It can
be pretty painful and it can be pretty debilitating because
you tear the ligaments on the bottom of your big toe.
It can remain pretty painful in sore. To do anything
that requires push off. You're using that foot to push off,

(54:11):
and so there's a lot of force going across that
toe joint, much more than we appreciate when it's healthy.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
So this is a Grade three turf toe injury that
is reportedly going to require surgery. Explain this type of
injury versus a Grade three turftow injury that doesn't require surgery.

Speaker 10 (54:29):
Now, that's getting into the weeds right there. It's a
great question. Grade three just indicates complete tear. We have
Grade one, two, and three tears of other ligaments in
the body that you hear. Grade three indicates complete tear.
That ligament is completely torn and shows evidence of instability,
or there's a fracture of a bone. There's two sasnoid

(54:51):
bones that sit in what's called our plant, our plate.
That's the ligament underneath your big toe. If you tear
that ligament completely, that's a great three. If you also
separate one of the bones, that makes it more complex
and more likely to require surgery. I will say some
with just complete tears of the ligament are gonna need
surgery because the joint is unstable. If it's unstable, the

(55:14):
toad won't stay in the correct position. Without surgery. If
you break through one of those bones, it makes it unstable. Typically,
so if the toe joint is unstable with a Grade
three injury, that will typically lead to surgery.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Is this the sort of thing you would times hear
about injuries where the injury occurs but surgery can't happen
until a few days have passed. Is this something like
that or could they do it as soon as today?

Speaker 10 (55:41):
I would be a little surprised if they do it
as soon as today. It certainly is something that can
be done within the next several days. Some surgeons may
opt to let some of the swelling go down for
even up to a week or so too before they
perform the surgery, but it's something they're gonna want to
get to in a relatively time fashion.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
In a range you.

Speaker 10 (56:03):
Would think this would be done within seven days or
ten days at the most.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
So once the surgery happens, walk me through recovery and
the rehab process.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
What does that look like.

Speaker 10 (56:14):
The recovery is going to be Unfortunately, some offloading or
with the use of crutches and or a knee scooter.
Certainly a boot that we saw him in yesterday. The
boot is required to stabilize or protect those ligaments on
the bottom of the foot. It would surprise me if
they let him even bear weight on the foot Initially,
there'll be a time where he cannot put his foot

(56:35):
on the ground. Unfortunately, that can lead to some secondary
issues with atrophy. I'm sure they will immediately deal with
those things and even be able to perform some therapy
to minimize the atrophy on the rest of the leg
while he's recovering, and it's going to take some time
for those ligaments to heal stable enough for him to
bear weight and then actually move the joint. So there's

(56:57):
a time where the joint has to be held still,
depending upon the type of surgical repair, and once that happens,
the next phases will begin to be able to bear
weight and to get motion in the toe.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
Doctor Nick Gates from Orthosincia is with us. The timeline
that is being reported is minimum three months, so I
guess that's best case. Does that timeline mesh with what
you've come to understand about this injury.

Speaker 10 (57:23):
Unfortunately, that's true, very true. This is not something that
they're going to want to rush through. This is not
something that you typically will see someone play with when
it's sore and try to quote, you know, quote unquote
play through it. There are certain injuries you can do
that with a Grade three turf toe is not. Unfortunately

(57:45):
you'll see with other NFL players, particularly quarterbacks. There are
more mild cases. There are Grade one and two where
an athlete might be out for a week or two
or three and then gradually resume their activities. But in
a Grade three injury with surgery, that's three month timeline.
I think he's very accurate and potentially somewhat conservative, so

(58:06):
I would be impressed and hopeful's fact that it would
be back in three months.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
But that does feel like best case for you.

Speaker 10 (58:14):
God, if this surgery goes through as they are reporting, yes,
three months sounds like best case scenario.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
Somebody asked me on social media last night a question
that I'm obviously not equipped to answer, but the question
was essentially like, is this the sort of injury that
just happens or could this be the result of an
accumulation of things where maybe he suffers turf toe and
he plays through it and then the grade gets worse
that sort of thing, or does this just look it's
like breaking a leg, right, it just happens.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
Is this that kind of injury.

Speaker 10 (58:41):
From what I see, this just happened to him. I
see no reports or evidence or watching him through the
preseason he was being hampered by this at all. And
that's how the majority of these are. I will tell
you there are some cases, and you mentioned how some
people will minimize always and think, well, it's just your toe,
what's the big deal. There are players who will have

(59:03):
a Grade one or Grade two turf toe injury and
try to push through that, and that will linger and
become chronic. And that's the battle with a lot of athletes,
because a lot of athletes want to ignore their toe
pain and just push through it. But in this case,
with the video we see, this looks like it's just
something that happened. Unfortunately, that lineman came down on the
back of his heel, which forced that toe into that position.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
One of the things that was interesting to me, and
I won't keep you too much longer, is when he
first went down, he was holding his calf. Why would
you hold your calf if you've got a toe injury.

Speaker 10 (59:34):
I think he was just starting to localize the pain
at that point. I think that was quick right after
it happened and he was just starting to reach down
himself and reaching out. I don't think it had anything
to do with his calf, other than it certainly could
have strained the calf.

Speaker 7 (59:47):
With that same mechanism a bit one more.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
You know, lay people will say things like, well, he's
injury prone, and it goes without saying he has a
laundry list of physical issues he has had to deal with.
When an expert like yourself, here's someone referred to a
quarterback or any athlete as being injury prone, does that
come off as unfair? Is that somewhat accurate? What's your
reaction to that.

Speaker 10 (01:00:13):
I think the term injury prone it sounds negative, It
has a negative connotation to it. I think my opinion
is Joe Burrow has been very unlucky. But I don't
think there's anything in him or what he does or
how he prepares that leads to him being injury prone.
I don't think he takes unnecessary risks. I don't think

(01:00:34):
he does those things. I think he just has been unlucky.
And I will tell you I think that's more often
not the case with athletes that you see with multiple injuries.
I see athletes also who I think are incredibly lucky.
Seeing athletes who play complete careers and have hardly spent
a moment on the sideline through high school or college
or even the pros.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
Well said, I can't thank you enough. We did this
on short notice. Thank you so much. We'll latchat soon
than happy to be.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Here, right. That's our guy, Doctor Nick Gates from Ortho Since.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
The great thing about Ortho Sincy is they have specialists
and locations across the Tri State, including walk in orthopedic
urgent care weekdays nine a m. To nine pm and
on Saturdays nine am to one pm at both their
Edgewood and Anderson locations. You don't need an appointment, which
makes it easy and it's cheaper.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Than going to an er.

Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
Whenever you have an urgent orthopedic injury, make sure you
go to Orthosinc dot com. That's Ortho ci Ncy dot
com twenty seven away from five o'clock or at Twin
Peaks in Westchester, Tony and Mo Football Show on ESPN
fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports station.

Speaker 9 (01:01:39):
You've been listening to Football in the NATI on ESPN
fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. Cincinnati's
ESPN fifteen thirty traffic.

Speaker 6 (01:01:56):
From the UC Health Traffic Center. The University of Cincinnati
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the nation. The future of cancer care is here called
five one three five eighty five UCCC. On southbound seventy five,
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Bill Gilmore rode another accident over at Planet Drive. Some

(01:02:20):
slow traffic northbound seventy five between Mitchell and Paddock up
to a ten minute delay. I met Ezelac with traffic.

Speaker 7 (01:02:27):
This REPUN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
Sadlines are a service to Kelsey Chevrolet home of lifetime
power train protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family
to yours for life kelseyshev dot com. Uh Joe Burrow's
gonna have surgery on his toe and miss a minimum
of three months.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
This according to Adam Schefter.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
It was somewhat confirmed by Zach Taylor today, who said, basically,
it looks like he's gonna have to have surgery, So
you'll get Jake Browning on Sunday. You'll also get Carson
Wentz because apparently JJ McCarthy, who has been awful for
seven of his eight pro quarters. Heard his ankle last night,
So Carson Wentz will throw and play for Minnesota one
o'clock Sunday live on ESPN fifteen thirty. Also Shamar Stewart,

(01:03:11):
Zach Taylor said doubtful as he deals with a low
ankle spring. By the way, Bengals current odds to win
the AFC have gone from twelve to one before yesterday
to thirty three to one.

Speaker 4 (01:03:24):
Wow, They're leading the AFC.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
North, and their odds to win the Super Bowl have
gone from twenty two to one to sixty six to one.
More tonight on Bengals Line starting at six on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Adam Schefter also reports that the Bengals have
started to inquire about free agent quarterbacks. There's also a
report on twenty four to seven sports that indicates the

(01:03:47):
team is also inquired about Malik Willis of the.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Green Bay Packers.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
Monday Night Football Tonight, Buccaneers and Texans Love It. Chargers
and Raiders both on Fox Sports thirteen to sixty. Both
I think are pretty good games. Meanwhile, the Reds are insane.
He is tonight two and a half out. Miserable weekend
in Sacramento. Zach Lettel and Matthew Libertre on the Hill
this evening seven to forty five from Bush Stadium on
seven hundred WLW Reds with two and a half out

(01:04:12):
with thirteen to play, they now have to leave Frog.
Three teams Mets are idle Tonight, Giants and Diamondbacks play
each other this week San Francisco a game and a
half back, d Backs two back, Cardinals four back one
programming note, The Mark Stubes Show is tonight at six
on Fox Sports thirteen sixty and Evander named to a

(01:04:34):
Team of the Match day for his heroics in FC
Cincinnati's stunning and stirring victory over Nashville on Saturday Night.

Speaker 5 (01:04:42):
Two of my favorite early season NFL teams tonight Buccaneers
and Chargers.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Buccaneers are fun, man Bucks are fun.

Speaker 5 (01:04:48):
Texans are in a weird spot, yeah, because they were
the talk of the NFL last year and now seemingly
drifting back into the abyss. These are the types of games.
If the Bucks are serious, U go win on the road.
And I thought the Chargers were extremely impressive in Week one,
so were the Raiders.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
The Raiders, these are two good games Tonight I worry.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
With Houston in their offensive line, which reminds me of
the offensive line we watch here. The mental part of this,
and admittedly we don't have a ton of time here,
so we might continue this after the top of the hour.
We have Brennanman and Jones on baseball, as as somebody
who has played the position and had to come back
from injury described for me what it must be like

(01:05:35):
to be Joe Burrow having overcome you know, you mentioned
it before. He's already been the Comeback Player of the
Year twice. Yeah, this offseason, it was your most normal one.
Yet you weren't coming off the surgeon's table, you weren't
rehabilitating an injury. You got through training camp. This was
your most normal training camp of your pro football career.

(01:05:59):
To go through all of that and have the rug
pulled out from underneath you during week two, I cannot
imagine how I know how frustrating it is as a fan. Yeah,
I'm sure it's frustrating for him, and I wonder about
the mental toll that something like that.

Speaker 5 (01:06:16):
It's the most I'm worried about around the whole situation.
Like my first reaction was, my first reaction was not
knowing how severe it was, and you see him kind
of walking off.

Speaker 4 (01:06:27):
You're like, oh, okay, good, but you're pissed.

Speaker 5 (01:06:29):
Because he shouldn't be hurt in the first place once
you found out the severity, Like this morning, I was
distraught for him. Yeah, because a fan, it sucks, sure,
but for him, like I went through it on such
a smaller level, like I bided my time at U. See,
I got a taste of it. I get hurt against
Akron and at the time, I don't know like what

(01:06:51):
the future even holds. But it was the first injury.
So you're just eager to work your tail off and
get back and mentally and physically you're strong and you're
getting there. And then two thousand and nine happens, and
I'm having a bunch of success. I'm doing Heisman candidate
interviews and I reinjure the same arm, And it was

(01:07:12):
so different for me mentally because instead of how quick
can I get back, it was damn, I already know
what I have to go through.

Speaker 4 (01:07:20):
Physically, it's grueling.

Speaker 5 (01:07:22):
You're getting up early, you're doing treatment all day, you're
going to bed late, you're uncomfortable, you're hurt. And then
mentally things start to unravel because mentally, now you're not
around the team, you're spending more time alone. That to
me was the hardest part. The physical side sucked. The
mental side was almost unbearable because you know, going in,

(01:07:45):
how much you've put in and how much you've worked
to get where you are, and now you're right back
at square one. Doesn't matter what you've done, don't matter
the work you've put in, done matter the hours you've
studied film, the work you've done with teammates. Everything feels
it's like at that time it's all or not because
here I am at the at the start and at
the ground level. Again happened to me when I got

(01:08:07):
to the NFL elbow surgeries and not knowing you know,
am I done? Is my career over? And you just
restart the process over and over and over again. We
mentioned he's already twice worked his tail off so much
and he's been the comeback player of the Year in
the NFL twice. You know how mentally hard that is
to try to be in a third time. No, there
was a no, I don't There was a staggering stat

(01:08:29):
This was on NFL Live earlier today. Joe Burrow and
Andrew Luck QB comparison. Luck played six seasons Burrow's. In
his sixth season, Andrew Luck was contacted on twenty one
percent of the plays he played, Joe Burrow's at twenty
percent time sacked. Andrew Luck won seventy four Joe Burrow
two to one. Pressure percentage Andrew Luck twenty eight percent,

(01:08:53):
Joe Burrow twenty seven percent. Andrew Luck could have rehabbed,
came back and played. The tool side of it is
so dang hard. And for Joe Burrow now it is
square one uncertainty in front because there's no clear cut
time frame.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:09:12):
Knee injury, Yeah, acl everyone kind of knows anymore. Well,
Achilles injury, everyone kind of knows.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
It's almost easier.

Speaker 3 (01:09:18):
You hate to put it this way, it's almost easier
if this injury happens in December and.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
You know season's over. Correct Like now, if you're Joe
in the back of your mind, I.

Speaker 4 (01:09:27):
Get back, are you pushing yourself? Am I doing enough?

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Now?

Speaker 5 (01:09:29):
You're doing more time in the training room. And the
hardest part is from a football standpoint, being away from
everybody because there's such a camaraderie and there's such a
locker room culture. That's what I missed the most when
I was hurt. Guys are practicing, you're in the training
room by yourself. Guys are in meetings, you're in the
training room, you're rehabbing, You're there at different times. It

(01:09:50):
just it sucks physically, it sucks even more mentally. I talked,
you had your guy that I talked to, Bob Manjean
from UC because he was the guy that helped me
through a lot of mind and he talked today about
with guys that go through multiple injuries, there's so much focus.
He said, we don't focus on the physical side because
we know what we do work. It's the mental side

(01:10:11):
because that's a lot of scary thoughts. And for Joe,
he's a very private guy. You know, he's not Mary,
doesn't have the family or anything like that yet, so
he's going through this a lot on his own. It's
just that that was where my mind immediately went this morning.
Is I feel terrible for Joe one from going through
it on a much smaller level to just knowing the

(01:10:33):
type of guy he is and everything he's worked to
get back. We watch training camp, we heard him after
practice I believe. I don't remember what the question was.
But then Baby asked him a question, and he said,
you've been out there, you see how I'm throwing it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
He was just.

Speaker 5 (01:10:45):
Confident, he knew he was feeling the best he's ever felt.
And now, not only do you go through an injury,
you go through an injury that you have the term
that Paul Danner Junior used again, unprecedented. You just don't
know what the future holds, and that is that's a scary,
scary thought.

Speaker 3 (01:11:01):
You you know, going in injuries are gonna be part
of the equation, Like you know that. I cannot imagine
what it must feel like to have gone through two
other injuries that you know, the.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Road back is long and it's hard.

Speaker 3 (01:11:14):
And look, I mean you put your trust in the
people who do the surgeries, who help you through rehab.
I understand all that, but the just sitting there if
you're him last night going crap, I gotta do this
all over Imagine I got to do this all over again.
And like at the end of the day, these guys
are judged by by how they play. This is another

(01:11:35):
He's gonna miss an extraordinarily large amount of time. His
ability to win a championship and at the end of
the day, that's all these qbs are judged by. It's
another opportunity for him at least gone by the wayside.
Now I gotta work myself back just to get myself
back to where I was yesterday, right yesterday morning. I'm
sure that you know how hard it is to do, dude, Like,

(01:11:57):
as a fan, it's exhausted. Yeah, I can't imagine what
it must be like to be the person who's actually
involved here.

Speaker 5 (01:12:03):
Yeah, I mean, your support system is huge. The trainers
are a key to this, getting Bob manng men today,
getting around the guys as much as possible, just to
kind of lift yourself back up.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:12:15):
And for Joe, you know, when he's able to getting
back into the quarterback meeting rooms and helping these guys along.

Speaker 4 (01:12:21):
It goes a long way.

Speaker 5 (01:12:22):
But like I don't want to say lucky, I had
the same injury twice, so at least going into the
second one, I knew what it was gonna take to
get back. But even then there's unknown about because you
injury it twice and you know what the process is
and maybe there's more damage. You go into something that's unprecedented.
There's unknowns going into the surgery, there's unknowns coming out,
there are setbacks along the reheab process. It's just it's

(01:12:45):
exhausting and as much as from experience the physical side sucked,
the mental side was twice as bad.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
Eleven away from five o'clock, we have an hour to
go more on Joe Burrow. I want to go back
to draft, the draft of twenty twenty and whatever, but
he said was going to happen because the Andrew Luck
conversation made me think about all the things that annoyed
us before the Bengals took Joe Burrow number one overall
in April of twenty twenty. We do have the rest
of NFL Week two to talk about. Maybe spent a

(01:13:14):
few minutes on what we saw at Nippert Stadium on
Saturday as well, but mostly the focus on Joe Burrow,
the injury and what's ahead for him and the team,
all of that between now and six. Right now, though,
it's time for Brenneman and Jones on baseball.

Speaker 7 (01:13:29):

Speaker 6 (01:13:32):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center. The University of
Cincinnati Cancer Center has the most comprehensive blood cancer center
in the nation. The future of cancer care is here
called five one three, five eighty five UCCC on southbound
seventy five the exit ramp to eastbound two seventy five
in Sharonville that is shut down from an accident on

(01:13:55):
cold rain. It's an injury accident over at Galbreath in
northbound State Route one twenty three. Accident at Peakin Road
on met eislic with traffic.

Speaker 7 (01:14:05):
This report is sponsored by Miami.

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
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Speaker 3 (01:14:51):
He goes yard Tonight coming that for five o'clock. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty. It's the Tonian Moo Football Show
at Twin Peaks in Westchester. It's awesome to have you
with us. We thank the staff at Twin Peaks. They
are awesome. Our server although I think we have a
new server. I think we have Kenzie switching out. Switching
out was great. Kenzie will be awesome as well. The

(01:15:12):
beer is cold, tons of TVs. Food is terrific. If
you're looking for a place to watch Monday Night football tonight,
two games this evening or the Reds game, watch all
three at the same time. Looking ahead of the college
football weekend Bengals and Vikings.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
As Carson Wentz battles against Jake.

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
Browning, watch that game. The best quarterback might be in
the booth. Yeah, Tony Romo played almost ten years.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
Jake Browning, we are here till six.

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):
You have to laugh what we were joking about the
Reds play tonight. You talk about it like Terry Francona
and the red should send something nice to the Bengals
and the offensive because let's be honest, the NFL being
what it is and the fervor for the Bengals being
what it is anything they do is gonna overshadow what

(01:16:06):
the Reds are doing, at least on the Sunday. But
they polished off an I three game series sweep. Nobody
is talking about it. Maybe nobody's paying attention. But the Bank.
They say the Bengals offensive line can't protect Joe Burrow.
They protected the Reds.

Speaker 5 (01:16:18):
But like, if the Bengals win ugly yesterday and Burrow's healthy,
we're talking about that. Yeah, great to be two and zero. Oh,
by the way, what in the heck are the Reds doing? Yes,
you get swept by the A's everything in front of it.
Now it's like Reds were swept. But let's get back
to what's going on here with the Bank.

Speaker 3 (01:16:36):
For what it's worth, and well, we have a lot
on Joe Burrow to discuss. Red's played the Cardinals to night.
Ellie de la Cruz dropped in the batting order to
the seventh spot.

Speaker 5 (01:16:43):
So not willing to move him to one or two
earlier in the year. Right now he can bat seven.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
Which I don't blame him at all. I just kind
of went but.

Speaker 5 (01:16:50):
They were so steadfast to not move him one or two.
Ellie hitting seventh gotta be the most dangerous seven hole
hitter in baseball probably you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
You talked before about the Andrew Luck comparisons.

Speaker 5 (01:17:01):
Yeah, that a lot of people made, and like it's hard,
Like I've never been one to lean into him, No,
none at all. But the comparisons are so eerily similar now,
it's crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:17:11):
Right, and Andrew Luck reached a point where he basically
just said to hell with this. And I don't know
that Joe Burrow is wired the same way. I certainly
hope that he's not. But their careers have kind of
taken on similar trajectories, and you just outline some of
the numbers. I go back to before the draft. I

(01:17:32):
got annoyed with it. You got annoyed with it. It
got tiresome, fatiguing. I thought a lot of it was lazy.
We criticized and made fun of a lot of it.
But there were many leading up to the draft in
twenty twenty who you know, they would talk about, well,
Burrow should pull an l Way, Well, that was never

(01:17:53):
gonna happen, or he should pull an Eli also was
never gonna happen. But many looked at that burrowing the
Bengals and said, boy, he's great. Cincinnati is where you
go to die as a quarterback. Cincinnati is where they're
gonna either waste you or.

Speaker 4 (01:18:09):
Ruin though the Carson Palmer conversations.

Speaker 3 (01:18:12):
Well, they've wasted a few of his really good years.
They've put him in peril. Now he's gonna miss a
lot of time because of an injury for the third
time in six seasons. If I'm one of those people,
I might be taking a little bit of a victory drap.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
Yeah, told you Cincinnati is gonna ruin him.

Speaker 3 (01:18:32):
That was a thing that people said, like, you cannot
deny that Cincinnati is going to ruin him. This kind
of feels like he's being ruined or at least wasted.

Speaker 5 (01:18:41):
Yes, even when he's been healthy, we've talked about are
you wasting him? Last year they wasted one of the
best statistical seasons that a quarterback has put together. Yes,
they had nothing to show for it.

Speaker 3 (01:18:53):
He had an Envy Peak caliber season and on a
non playoff team.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Yep is organizational male pro.

Speaker 5 (01:19:01):
You know, last year we pointed offensive line thirty second
past block win rate, one of the worst defenses, if
not the worst, in the league. That is holding Joe
Burrow back. The injuries have not helped. It's it's remarkable
how at the time you're like, that's that's ridiculous. It's

(01:19:23):
a different organization. And here we are six years later
talking about missing most of if not all. Now of
year six we're talking about like Burrow coming out of
college was old nice six years in the NFL Super
Bowl window, this super Bowl window that you are burning

(01:19:44):
through the prime. Like I saw earlier dani rolobski w
I'm a fan of what Dan Orlovsky does. He reposted
from the day after the Super Bowl. I saw this
and literally said the Super Bowl the Bengals were Yes,
literally said, Joe Burrow has the type of career that

(01:20:04):
he could win multiple super Bowls in Cincinnati. But if
they don't prioritize protecting him, he could be the next
to Andrew Luck. That was after they went to the
Super Bowl. What have they done to prioritize him since then?

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
Well, at that time, you know, Patrick Mahomes had won one, right,
if I'm doing this correct, he had one one, he
had been in one, and then the Bengals beat him
in the AFC Title Game. But it was like, Okay,
Mahomes in Burrow. Now, Patrick Mahomes has current issues of
his own. Looked like a game manager against Philadelphia yesterday.

(01:20:40):
But Joe Burrow's career trajectory is looking more like Andrew
Lux correct than Patrick Mahomes. Patrick Mahomes is in the
Hall of Fame. Patrick Mahomes has rings. Patrick mahomes legacy,
as far as I'm concerned, is safe, and he's still
just what twenty eight years old. Joe Burrow's career looks
more like Andrew Lucks. Andrew Luck, as wonderfully talented as

(01:21:01):
he was, is not going to be in the Hall
of Fame. Represents an enormous what if and they won games,
They played in an AFC Championship game with him, but
you look at the whole experience and it just it
never was what it should have been. And he hit
the eject button, you know, prematurely.

Speaker 4 (01:21:20):
Andrew Luck retired when he was twenty nine.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
Joe Burrow's career looks a lot more like Andrew Lux
than it does anybody else you want to compare him to.

Speaker 5 (01:21:28):
Andrew Luck finished his sixth NFL season, retired at the
age of twenty nine. Joe Burrow right now, the start
of his six NFL season is twenty eight, the sacks,
the pressure percentage, the amount of times they've been hit,
all eerily similar. How can you not look at those
two and compare them and just the mental drain that

(01:21:49):
we talked about earlier. Yeah, that, like I firmly believe
that's why Andrew Luck physically could have rehabbed, got back
played again.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
By his own acknowledgement.

Speaker 5 (01:21:59):
Yeah, mentally, I'm doing this again. And if you're Joe Burrow,
you got two hundred and seventy five million, Well.

Speaker 3 (01:22:07):
They've got a lot of money that a long time
ago had a quarterback who was like, f this. Yeah,
and I hate to put it that way, but he
basically said, I'll leave fifty mil on the table. I'll
walk away. They could trade me, or I'll sit on
the beach. I'm good, yep. Like, do I think Joe
is going to do that? No, But there is president

(01:22:27):
here of a quarterback saying I'm done with this good right,
And I think Joe Burrow is exponentially better than Carson Palmer.
There's also a guy in Andrew Luck whose career had
a similar trajectory to the one that Joe is going
through right now, who said I'm out yep. You will
see folks who say things like Zach needs to tell

(01:22:48):
Joe no, or they need to tell Joe You've got
to play a certain way, and it's that doesn't lend
itself to injury. Now I'm making this about yesterday. I
don't know what Joe was supposed to do the pocket collapsing.
Does Joe deserve maybe not criticism, But is it fair
to tell him that he needs to do things that

(01:23:12):
better protect himself.

Speaker 4 (01:23:15):
I think he can.

Speaker 5 (01:23:17):
But I also think if you are successful as an organization,
then you find ways to build around what your elite
player's best drinks are. Like did Baltimore draft Lamar and say, okay,
now we need you to be more of a pocket passer.
They said he needed to be a better thrower, but
we're gonna build our system around you as an athlete.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
You need to improve as a pass or it doesn't
mean you need to be a pocket pass.

Speaker 5 (01:23:41):
Buffalo has built around Josh Allen's skill set perfectly. We're
gonna we're gonna have you be this physical guy. You
can make the throws. We're also gonna rely on the
running game and allow you to spread the ball. Like
I just I think It's hard to take one of
the most elite players in the league, especially coming off
a year or where they were unprecedented from a number standpoint,

(01:24:02):
and say last year was great, but we need you
to go under center more. I think more so it's
last year was great. What can we try to do
more of to highlight what makes you so well but
also build the system around you to protect you better.

Speaker 3 (01:24:19):
Can I ask you a stupid question, what does putting
him under center do to better protect him?

Speaker 5 (01:24:25):
It gives you more of a threat in the run game,
It gives you more of a threat in the play action.
But there are quarterbacks like, if I had the choice
from a coach to be in gun every time or
under center, I'd being gun every time because I feel
like I can see everything in front of me and
I'm further away already from the line.

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:24:44):
If you're an under center quarterback, there's a lot of
times where you're turning and your back is actually turned
to the defense. Not a lot of quarterbacks like turning
around and then having to like refine, Okay, where did
everyone go? Yeah, they just want to see everything in
front of him, and that's his preference. That's you know,
a lot of quarterbacks in today's league prefer the shotgun

(01:25:06):
for that reason, But there are scheme ways to be
better at it. Lamar Jackson doesn't go under center much, right,
and they're a very effective running team. Scheme wise, they're
more successful that way. Yeah, I go back to scheme,
and I go back to personnel, and I go back
to the question we talked about a ton last year.
Does the personnel in the scheme blend together for this team.

Speaker 3 (01:25:27):
I've watched, as have you, every snap that Joe Burrow
has played as an NFL quarterback. I've seen him make
bad decisions every quarterback does. I've seen him throw balls
where I go, man, wish you wouldn't have thrown that one.
I've seen him check into plays that haven't worked. Not
once have I thought to myself that quarterback is playing recklessly, Right,

(01:25:51):
I've seen him get forced out of the pocket and
he's got to try to make something.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
He's got to.

Speaker 3 (01:25:55):
Improvise, you know, maybe he'll run laterally instead of turning
it up field. But I've never watched him and thought
to myself, he's playing recklessly. Yeah, I've watched Patrick Mahomes
do that, and we celebrate him for it. It's fun
to watch. I've watched Lamar Jackson do that at times
where it's like man, my guy, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
Like Hi'm a raven, like Lamar run out of bounds.

Speaker 3 (01:26:16):
I have never watched Joe Burrow and thought to myself,
this quarterback is playing recklessly. So I guess I don't
understand where this criticism, and maybe it's an online only thing,
this criticism of his game comes from.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
I just I don't see it.

Speaker 5 (01:26:35):
The overall notion of shotgun is designed to give the
quarterback more time to throw, more time to read the defense,
more time to extend passing plays down the field. Last year,
two of the most prevalent shotgun quarterbacks in the league,
Joe Burrow and Jalen Hurts Philly run the ball. Yeah,

(01:26:57):
they run the ball successfully. Jalen Hurts and Joe Burrow
were the those quarterbacks used last year on shotgun. The
only time Jalen Hursch goes under center is the toast push.

Speaker 1 (01:27:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:27:06):
Yeah, and they run the ball effectively. That tells me
that their run scheme is better than what the Bengals is,
because that's what it always comes back to, the easy answer.
You can run the ball more effectively under center well
the most effective team in football last year and running
the ball. The only team in football that ran up
more than they passed last year wasn't gun as much

(01:27:27):
as Joe Burrow was.

Speaker 3 (01:27:28):
When Joe Burrow was almost by himself keeping the Bengals
afloat last year, putting up MVP caliber numbers, I don't
and that's not to minimize the contribution Jamar Chase was
awesome last season as he was yesterday. But when Joe
Burrow was keeping the team afloat with the passing game
last year, I don't recall anybody going gollie, g he's
in the shotgun too much, or oh boy, he's Many

(01:27:49):
of us said he's taking too many hits. That's not
on Joe. Many of us said, God, he's on the
run too often. I don't think that's on Joe. I
don't recall anybody when he was putting together an MVP
caliber see and who are like, oh man, if if
only Joe would hand off more, if only Joe was
under cente more, if only Joe would play less recklessly.

Speaker 5 (01:28:08):
And like, to put it into perspective, USA Today did
an article after last year in today's NFL eighty three
percent of offensive snaps come in the shotgun.

Speaker 2 (01:28:17):
Uh huh.

Speaker 4 (01:28:18):
Across the whole NFL.

Speaker 5 (01:28:19):
Last year, Jared Goff took the least at seventy five percent.
So even at that, three out of four are still
in shotgun, right, So I think we overblow at times.
Oh under center, this under center that Burrow Jalen Hurts
last year ninety five percent of their snaps shotgun.

Speaker 3 (01:28:38):
It's funny because Week one, Indy was playing Miami, had
a big lead and they're assaulting the game away and
Daniel Jones goes under center. And I remarked to one
of the people that I was watching all the games with,
I go, that just looks weird. Now, Like this what
I grew up watching, which was the quarterback was always
under cent. It's why we still say, like, you know,
Joe Burrow will be under center.

Speaker 2 (01:28:57):
For the Bengals this week.

Speaker 3 (01:28:58):
It's jarring to see because it happens so infrequently. So
now we're gonna take Joe and put him under center.

Speaker 5 (01:29:04):
And it said in this USA Today article, it said
Jared goff percentage of snaps under center has increased because
Dan Campbell and Ben Johnson tailored the offense specifically to
fit Jared Goff. So again, that's taking who your quarterback is,
what they do well, and tailoring a whole scheme around that.

Speaker 4 (01:29:25):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:29:26):
I'm still here wondering the same thing about the Bengals.
Have they tailored their offense to be exactly who they
want to be with Joe Burrow? Or Week one comes
and everyone loves it because drive one boom right down
the field, pounded it in between the tackles. Is that
sustainable with the Bengals offense and who they want to be?

Speaker 4 (01:29:43):
Because what were we.

Speaker 5 (01:29:44):
Left asking where's Jamar Wor's t They still only ran
it for two yards of carrying Like, that's not who
they are And it's not how they built the old
line either. They built the old line with what win
in pass protection protect Joe Burrow?

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
They did not.

Speaker 5 (01:30:01):
There was not one person all offseason and I heard say, wow,
look what the Bengals have done to help their run
game on the offensive line.

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
Well, when you.

Speaker 3 (01:30:08):
Brought up Dalton Reisner, Hey he's not a great run blocker,
It's okay because he's.

Speaker 4 (01:30:13):
A great mass protector, and we just all went along
with it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:16):
I certainly did like, you know what, Okay, that probably
matters more than anything else. Now suddenly that's not good enough, correct?
I Mean all I heard all August was gotta get Riisner.
Got why because he's a great pass protector, all right,
he's not awesome at run blocking. You're cool with that, Yes,
need great pass protection. And I certainly was like, yeah, okay, fine, cool,
that makes sense.

Speaker 5 (01:30:37):
Sure, but you gotta be like, you can't sign pass
protecting linemen and then come out and say we're gonna
punch you in the mouth. With the running game, you
have to find ways to effectively run the ball. Yeah,
informations that may not be as fitting for you to
do that. Like it's again, it's it's remarkable these players

(01:31:02):
that they brought in. I don't recall one person ever
saying Stuart fair or Dylan Fairchild, did you see him
at George as a run blocker? No, they said, Well,
a lot of people have him as the best pass
protecting guard in the draft, Dalton Reisner, best past best
past protecting guard available. Orlando Brown Jr. Not he's okay
in the run game, but man, he's a great pass right.

(01:31:23):
That's a conversation around every lineman and now all of
a sudden, they're going to be a run team. Now
we're worried about can they line up under center? Like
it what neerver you try? Like those don't fit right?
Like it's it's right there in front of you. It's again,
personnel scheme just doesn't seem like it meshes.

Speaker 3 (01:31:41):
I make it simply about this, and I know we
are way late. When is the last time that, as
a season unfolded, you or anybody else said Bengals offensive
line is an asset?

Speaker 4 (01:31:54):
I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (01:31:54):
It's been a decade.

Speaker 3 (01:31:55):
Yeah, run block, past block, Andy Dalton, Joe Burr, Marvin Lewis,
Zach Taylor, Paul Alexander, Jim Turner, Jim Turner, Frank Pollack,
Frank Pollack, Peter, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
I'm losing.

Speaker 3 (01:32:09):
I'm forgetting the name of the offensive line coach. There
have been so many glass eater it doesn't matter. It's
been ten years since you could objectively look at the
Bengals and go offensive line is an asset.

Speaker 2 (01:32:20):
That to me?

Speaker 5 (01:32:20):
And how many years now in a row have we
said O line needs to be addressed.

Speaker 3 (01:32:25):
When we're sitting here in at the end of the year, whenever, however,
the season ends for the even if it ends in
a title, We're gonna go okay.

Speaker 2 (01:32:33):
Team needs O line.

Speaker 4 (01:32:34):
Yep right, yep team.

Speaker 3 (01:32:36):
And by the way, many teams are gonna say that.
None are gonna say it with ten years of not
being able to build one behind him and a quarterback
going through a season altering injury for the third time
in six years. Twenty five after five o'clock Twin Peaks, Westchester,
Tony and Mo Football Show ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 7 (01:32:54):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 8 (01:33:00):

Speaker 6 (01:33:03):
care is here called five one three five eighty five UCCC.

Speaker 8 (01:33:15):
There is still.

Speaker 6 (01:33:15):
An injury accident on coal rain over at Galbreath. Also
an accident on eastbound State Route sixty three at Route
seven forty one, northbound seventy five at Paddock Road. Reports
of a pedestrian on the right shoulder used caution in
the area. I'm at ezelic with traffic.

Speaker 7 (01:33:33):
This report is sponsored by the Dwyer Company.

Speaker 9 (01:33:37):
This is football in the NATI brought to you in
part by Postman Law and Vice Skyline Chile on ESPN
fifteen thirty to the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 3 (01:33:50):
Joe Burrow is going to have surgery on his toe
in Minneapolis. JJ McCarthy's going to miss two to four
weeks an angle injury. He is not going to play
on Sunday, So you get Jake Browning versus Carson Wentz.
By the way, the CBS has this game as like
it's the number one group. Nance and Romo and Wolfson
are gonna call this tilt Browning versus Carson Wentz on Sunday.

Speaker 4 (01:34:14):
I think they're pumped.

Speaker 3 (01:34:16):
The networks have put a lot in the Bengals. They're
on Sunday Football bunch, got a prime game coming up,
Jake Browning versus Aaron Rodgers, then the four to twenty
five game against the Lions, or I'm going to night
football in two weeks.

Speaker 4 (01:34:28):
That's the drawback of all this.

Speaker 5 (01:34:30):
There were so many big games I couldn't wait for
with the matchups, and now can Jake Browning live up
to it?

Speaker 3 (01:34:37):
Bengals and Vikings on Sunday at one o'clock Our pregame
coverage Sunday morning starts at nine, kick off at one
on ESPN fifteen thirty or at Twin Peaks in Westchester.
It is the Tony and Mo Football Show on ESPN
fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 9 (01:34:55):
You've been listening to Football in the NATI, brought to
you by sinnat a tax resolution powered by Tefe Sheldon
on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 7 (01:35:09):

Speaker 8 (01:35:12):

Speaker 6 (01:35:15):
care is here called five one three, five eighty five
UCCC westbound two seventy five. It's an accident on the
right shoulder at Mastellar Road, northbound seventy one seventy five.
Accident on the entrance ramp from Kyle's Lane, right shoulder

(01:35:38):
block down the ramp northbound seventy one accident approaching State
Route seventy three. I'm at ezelic with traffic.

Speaker 7 (01:35:45):
This report.

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
Jake Browning plays here on the official Home of the Bengals,
ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:35:54):
Sports headlines or a service to Kelsey Chevrolet home of
Lifetime power Training protection and guaranteed the credit approval from
their family to yours for life kelsey chef dot com.
Joe Burrow's gonna have toe surgery soon and is expected
to miss a minimum of three months. This according to
ESPN's Adam Schefter and basically confirmed by Zach Taylor. He

(01:36:16):
wasn't quite as forthcoming with information on the timeline. Nonetheless,
Jake Browning is gonna start on Sunday and Carson Wentz
is going to start in place of the injury. JJ
McCarthy for Minnesota Boy Cincinnati is a five and a
half point dog, or at least was this morning.

Speaker 2 (01:36:31):
The game at one o'clock and a half two and
a half, two and a half. Now it's down to
two and a half.

Speaker 4 (01:36:34):
Two and a half.

Speaker 2 (01:36:36):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:36:36):
JJ McCarthy's absence swung that game three points. Aaron Jones, Okay,
that's Aaron Jones call.

Speaker 2 (01:36:42):
Good call. Shamar Stewart, by the way, low ankles brain.

Speaker 3 (01:36:44):
Zach today said he is doubtful one o'clock Sunday Live
on ESPN. In fifteen thirty, Adam Schefter reports Bengals have
reached out to a number of free agent quarterbacks, which
you would expect. They have a spot on the roster
to fill, you're gonna fill it with a QB he
twenty four to seven Sports reports they have also inquired
about the availability of Green Bay's Malik Willis. Bengals line

(01:37:06):
tonight at six on ESPN fifteen thirty Monday Night Football Tonight,
there's two games, Bucks and Texans. The first game and
then the nightcap ten o'clock kickoff. Chargers in Vegas to
take on the Raiders. Both those games air on Fox
Sports thirteen to sixty. Red's road trip continues in Saint Louis,
first of three with the Cardinals. Zachlettel and Matt liberttore

(01:37:27):
Our Your Pitchers, seven forty five is tonight's first pitch
on seven hundred WLW LA, Dela Cruz is being slid
down to the seventh spot lading order the Marx Toombs
Show tonight at six on Fox Sports thirteen sixty. By
the way, UC's next game against Kansas will take place
a week from Saturday at noon.

Speaker 2 (01:37:45):
That kickoff time came out away and I think.

Speaker 3 (01:37:47):
It's a big game for the Bearcats and Evander named
to MLS's Team of the Match day for his outstanding
performance in a thrilling FC Cincinnati victory over Nashville on
Saturday night. We've talked about Joe Burrow and Jake Browning
extensively over the last two and a half hours. Let's
roll through a few NFL Week two stories. Let's start

(01:38:09):
in the AFC North. We joked about this.

Speaker 2 (01:38:12):
Before, the Brown's not such a bad matchup for the
Baltimore rates.

Speaker 5 (01:38:15):
Yeah, it's crazy how that works, and the idea for
Baltimore that they weren't dominant on the ground. I mean
that Lamar didn't run for a ton thirteen yards through
the ball extremely well, But I just there's this idea
at times that well, you know, for the Bengals, you

(01:38:37):
just have bad matchups. Derrick Henry ran for twenty three
yards and Lamar ran for thirteen and they won the
game forty one to seventeen. Now, I will say I
thought Quinn Shawn Junkin Judkins played well in his first
appearance for the Browns. I think he's going to be
a good back for them. I hate what that probably

(01:38:57):
means for Jerome Ford going forward, but Baltimore man eight.
You would talk about feeling different one and one after
putting up forty or more in.

Speaker 4 (01:39:07):
Two straight games.

Speaker 2 (01:39:08):
Yeah, is insane, But I think Baltimore is every bit
of who we thought they'd be.

Speaker 3 (01:39:13):
Pittsburgh loses to UH Seattle in a game highlighted by
rookie Caleb Johnson giving the Seahawks a free touchdown on
a kickoff return because he doesn't know the rules.

Speaker 4 (01:39:23):
Yeah, still shocked at.

Speaker 5 (01:39:26):
I guess for right now, Pittsburgh's defense just doesn't seem
to be as effective.

Speaker 2 (01:39:32):
I know the kickoff, you take that away. They give
up twenty four points, right, Mike Tomlin coach. Teams don't
do that sort of stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:39:38):
Yeah, it's crazy. TJ. Watt.

Speaker 5 (01:39:41):
Yeah, seven straight games dating back to last year without.

Speaker 4 (01:39:43):
A sack, for what it's worth.

Speaker 5 (01:39:46):
Yeah, but it's like it's kind of the way I
felt about the Bengals offense after Week one, Like eventually
I feel like water will find its level. Sure, I
feel like Pittsburgh defense they got a lot of new
a lot of pieces.

Speaker 4 (01:39:57):
They'll be better. Aaron Rodgers was as good, but.

Speaker 5 (01:40:01):
Overall, nothing about Pittsburgh to me has changed. I think
they're like an eight nine to ten win team.

Speaker 3 (01:40:06):
Pittsburgh's gonna go to New England, home for Minnesota, home
for the Browns before they.

Speaker 2 (01:40:12):
Come to Cincinnati.

Speaker 5 (01:40:13):
Yeah, and if you think of where things are now,
they're thinking JJ McCarthy two to four weeks, Aaron Jones
is a hamstring issue. Those normally linger just a little bit.
Very favorable schedule coming up for the Pittsburgh's Dealers. Stick
a fork in the Chiefs. No, gosh, no, still still no.
I think it's unique with them because they don't as
I mentioned earlier, they don't have the ability to run

(01:40:36):
the ball. Their running game has been effective in years past,
they are desperately missing the playmakers on the outside. It's
too early for me to call it, obviously for the
Kansas City Chiefs. Also, I think the Chargers and the
Eagles are both really good teams that they lost to.
They get the Giants, but after that, Ravens, Jags, Lions,
I think they'll they'll right themselves here coming up.

Speaker 3 (01:40:56):
Speaking of writing themselves, the Lions hanging fifty two on
the Bears.

Speaker 2 (01:40:59):
Did you freud is here in a couple of weeks.

Speaker 5 (01:41:02):
Yeah, every bit of who they've been in the past
couple of years Jared Golf was awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:41:06):
I'm in Ross.

Speaker 4 (01:41:06):
Saint Brown was great. Tremier gibbs Man is scary.

Speaker 2 (01:41:09):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (01:41:10):
I you put that guy in space against anyone in
the league, good luck. I still think they're they're figuring
out altogether defensively who they're going to be because they
lost Aaron Glenn as well. But I still I still
like the Lions.

Speaker 3 (01:41:25):
You know, the Bengals are starting this stretch of teams
five straight games against teams that made the playoffs last year. Now,
you might argue the Minnesota game is less formidable just
based on what they put on National TV last night
than you add to it a quarterback injury, though, honestly,
I think on the range of backup qbs, Carson Wentz
is okay. Yeah, going to Denver is not going to

(01:41:47):
be easy. Their defense hasn't please talked about giving away
a game the Denver Broncos on that leverage penalty on
the Indianapolis kick.

Speaker 2 (01:41:55):
But after the Denver game, Detroit green Bay with Micah
and then.

Speaker 4 (01:42:01):
The Seams three quarterbacks ready to go for that one.

Speaker 2 (01:42:03):
Green Bay should be four and oh when the Ben
was good to Lambeau feel.

Speaker 4 (01:42:08):
Green Bay is really really good.

Speaker 5 (01:42:10):
I still think it's them and Philly right now in
the NFC. I thought it was impressive to do it
very shorthanded that San Francisco went to New Orleans with
Mac Jones of all people and got to win. I
thought Buffalo was very business like, even though Josh Allen
was fourteen to twenty five for one forty eight, I mean,
very pedestrian. But James Cook was phenomenal, very quietly and

(01:42:32):
almost workman like. Because I was wondering early season Stafford
didn't do anything a training camp.

Speaker 4 (01:42:38):
Rams have found a way to.

Speaker 2 (01:42:39):
Get the two and oh very quietly.

Speaker 5 (01:42:41):
Now they can't be anymore because they're gonna go to
Philadelphia this week and I think you're gonna see what
they have. But I like what they have with Puca,
really like what DeVante Adams has done early in the season.
And they're They're running game is strong.

Speaker 4 (01:42:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:42:56):
We were at a game on Saturday that I think
I think represented the worst FBS versus FCS matchup I've
ever seen. Yeah, Cincinnati beat Northwestern State on Saturday. Northwestern State.
You watch a lot of these games FBS versus FCS.
The games are normally blowouts. There are exceptions normally blowouts.

(01:43:19):
We thought it would be that Northwestern State team. We've
talked about it a lot off air. That's the worst
one that I've seen.

Speaker 5 (01:43:26):
Spread was forty three and a half. So you know
what one's gonna be close seventies incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:43:31):
Yes, in fifty minutes.

Speaker 5 (01:43:35):
Usually you see teams like that, and I think we
were having this conversation. You see teams like that and
you still find a couple of players that you think
that guy could play at the next.

Speaker 2 (01:43:42):
Level, at the FBS, at the Big twelve level, but
the FBS.

Speaker 5 (01:43:46):
Level, I've never seen a team that was that bad
but also gave so poor effort, Like they just quit
on places. They looked like they had no idea how
to run block, they didn't know. UC ran a three
down front, three man front. It looked like the worst
prepared team. They didn't try, they weren't talented, and at

(01:44:08):
one point it became dangerous, Like the UC coaches are
screaming at the rest because they're cutting and they're chopping.
Then it just becomes dangerous because this team doesn't care
and they're doing these illegal blocks. They can get someone injured, right,
I don't know how much the Bearcats got out of
that and I hate that they had that game. Now
a bye and it's a big twelve opener because I
had questions out of Nebraska, I had questions out of

(01:44:30):
Bowling Green. There's nothing I can take from Northwestern State.
Now you have a buy and you gotta figure out
who you are on the road against Kansas.

Speaker 3 (01:44:36):
I think this game, this Kansas game, is what the
season is gonna hinge on.

Speaker 2 (01:44:40):
If they go on the road and get a win.
The next two are going to be at home.

Speaker 3 (01:44:43):
They'll be underdogs against Iowa State, but they will have
gotten to win on the road against a team that
kind of took them to the woodshed two years ago.
I think if you lose this one, you start to
look if we're if the idea is to get to
six or something, I think seven wins. I think if
you lose this one played for you're trying to find
where the win's gonna come. I think their season largely

(01:45:06):
hangs on the outcome of the game in Lawrence.

Speaker 5 (01:45:07):
Yeah, if they don't get it, you legit look at
the schedule and start saying where they get them. Because
of what we've seen to this point in the season,
and you already start kicking yourself. Nebraska was right there
for the taking. If you fail against Kansas, that becomes
an even bigger issue.

Speaker 4 (01:45:23):
I'm with you.

Speaker 5 (01:45:24):
I'm putting so much stake into this one for the Bearcats.
I'm interested to find out and see when it comes
out what the line will be, because I don't Kansas
didn't play this weekend. They played West Virginia this and
I believe they lost. They were up on Missouri and
lost the game. They were up in the fourth quarter. Yeah,
so I don't know what that line will be. I'm
assuming they'll be a little bit of a favorite Kansas.

Speaker 2 (01:45:47):
Yeah sure.

Speaker 5 (01:45:48):
But yeah, that's much like we've seen with Scott Sadafield.
Where where right now is the Marquie win? Who is
the Marquie win?

Speaker 2 (01:45:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:45:55):
I mean I think if last year was it Arizona
State without shorthanded quarter quarterback?

Speaker 2 (01:46:03):
Yeah, that's it right, all right?

Speaker 3 (01:46:05):
It is eleven away from six o'clock Tonya Mo Football
Show twin peaks in Westchester ESPN fifteen.

Speaker 7 (01:46:09):
Thirty, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 8 (01:46:15):
Traffic westbound two seventy five.

Speaker 6 (01:46:18):
It's an accident on the right shoulder at Mastellar Road,
northbound seventy one seventy five accident on the entrance ramp
from Kyle's lane, right shoulder block down the ramp northbound
seventy one accident approaching State Route seventy three. I'm at
Eazelic with traffic from.

Speaker 2 (01:46:34):
The any Weather Heating and dared Tame Star Weathers six.

Speaker 3 (01:46:37):
Excuse me stick around. Bengals line is on ESPN fifteen
thirty tonight at six o'clock, the Toni and Mo Football Show.
We are at Twin Peaks in Westchester. We will be
at the Florence location a week from today, and let's
look forward to that after the Bengals take on the
Minnesota Vikings. I got poll questions on Twitter, two of

(01:46:58):
them very very important.

Speaker 4 (01:46:59):
Thing.

Speaker 3 (01:47:00):
One is about so if you look at most sports
books they have they'll adjust these things as the season unfolds.
But the Bengals preseason over under was ten and a half. Yeah,
they obviously have won two games. Pretty good spot. That
Joe Burrow injury has made sports books bring that number back. Now,
if you bet the over on ten and a half,
they still have to win eleven games, but right now

(01:47:23):
you could buy seven and a half So my pole
question is, thanks to a United Heartland insurance.

Speaker 2 (01:47:30):
You're gonna go over.

Speaker 3 (01:47:32):
You're gonna go over with the team in the playoffs,
or you're gonna go under. Fifty six and a half
percent say over. Sixteen point seven percent say over, And
in the playoffs.

Speaker 5 (01:47:44):
I'll say over. I think they win at Minnesota. Three
and zero for the Bengals, Okay, I think they find
wins against New England, against the Jets, and against the
Bears that gets them to six. Can you find two
wins against Miami, Arizona, Cleveland Pits twice?

Speaker 2 (01:48:03):
Is Joe playing in some of those games?

Speaker 4 (01:48:06):
Got Jake? I mean the variable that we got Jake.

Speaker 2 (01:48:09):
The variable that.

Speaker 3 (01:48:10):
You can't count on is does Joe come back and
play a phoenix.

Speaker 5 (01:48:16):
Well, if they're like, oh my gosh, this is unprecedent.
We've never seen someone's toe ligaments come back together this quickly,
be awesome, be great, he's built different.

Speaker 3 (01:48:24):
A lot of folks were offering, myself included, to give him. Yes, now,
I would give him my toe. Yeah, it's a big
toe injury, isn't it. Yeah, I'd give him a big toe.

Speaker 2 (01:48:35):
It's fine.

Speaker 4 (01:48:36):
That would have to be some sort of guarantee in return.

Speaker 3 (01:48:39):
If if Joe Burrow doesn't play at all this season
the rest of the way, I think they will finish
eight and.

Speaker 5 (01:48:47):
Nine, which would be worse than anything drafted in the
middle of the packet throwaway year, not a not a
top ten pick.

Speaker 3 (01:48:56):
The thing is, though, like, let's say it's the Bengals
in the field, Like, all right, so Baltimore is gonna
win the division in all likelihood, not talking about the
division winners, Like who do you look at in the
AFC and go there? If you believe the Bengals were
gonna make the playoffs as a wild card coming into yesterday,
and now you don't who takes their spot, I wouldn't

(01:49:18):
be stunned if eight and nine got a team in.

Speaker 4 (01:49:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:49:20):
I think the Chargers are gonna be really good, but
they might be good enough to win their division, you know,
I don't know. I still think the Kansas City Chiefs
will turn it around. I think Pittsburgh covers around the
same thing as the Bengals. I think they're around nine, okay,
maybe ten. Nothing I saw from Jacksonville would give me
any semblance of hope that they would get to nine

(01:49:42):
or ten. I guess we weren't counting much on Indy.

Speaker 2 (01:49:47):
No. Maybe Yeah. By the way, Kansas City's Texans lose tonight,
they're owing two.

Speaker 3 (01:49:53):
Kansas City's at the Giants, home for Baltimore at Jacksonville,
home for Detroit.

Speaker 4 (01:49:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:49:59):
And then you get in the middle of the season,
it's Commanders at Buffalo at Denver.

Speaker 2 (01:50:03):
Yeah. The other question is should Joe Burrow still buy
Christmas gifts for his offensive line?

Speaker 4 (01:50:10):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (01:50:10):
Most agree with you seventy seven percent.

Speaker 4 (01:50:13):
What are the other what are the other twenty three sayings?

Speaker 2 (01:50:15):
Why? Well? But then does Jake have to buy him? Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:50:18):
Like does every quarterback have to buy him gifts? Buy
something Jake doesn't have Joe's coin. Oh, he plays well,
he might get something like do they go in on
it together? Maybe Joell have time to think about what
to get him now plenty Unfortunately, Uh, all right, we
work through this, Thank you, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:50:36):
We're a Twin Peaks this week thirteen. Nope, we do
all right, We.

Speaker 3 (01:50:42):
Got we got sixteen more weeks ago, my baby, We're
at Twin Peaks in Florence next week. We thank the
staff here for their hospitality. Thanks to the folks who
came out as well, Mike Mills producing on site, Tarren
bland Back and Kenwood. We are back at it, Tony
since he three sixty tomorrow at noon. I'm back at
three zero five tomorrow afternoon. Have an amazing night, and

(01:51:03):
we'll talk to you tomorrow. Bengals Line is next on
ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports station

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