November 12, 2025 • 12 mins
Amy Wagner from Allworth financial joins the show as she does every Wednesday. Her and Mo discuss the implications of Sports Betting and Athletes in today's day in age.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Wednesday, which means we talk sports and business and
money with our friend Amy Wagner from Dean Dorton Private Wealth.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
She is a wealth advisor. She is my friend.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
She's here to make us smarter when it comes to
the world of sports and money and business. Amy, what's up, Hey,
how are you. I'm well, I'm good. This baseball betting story,
I think is interesting from a number of different angles.
It's not necessarily getting the play that the NBA guys did,
but to have a couple of now, I guess we'll
(00:32):
call them former Cleveland Guardians pitchers who are being indicted
because it's being alleged that they were fixing pitches. Because
you could bet on the speed of a pitch, you
could bet on the outcome of a pitch, and these
guys were not necessarily trying to lose games or not
necessarily trying to have bad performances, but they were throwing
certain pitches and their associates were benefiting from it. So
(00:57):
I think for a lot of folks, you're not going
to put the toothpape back in the two. Because every
major sports league has gotten in bed with gambling companies
and for full disclosure, I do spots for FanDuel. I
use FanDuel. I like sports wagering. But every sports league
has partnerships with gambling companies. In your opinion, how problematic
are they and how lucrative are they?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Well, I think, first of all, I have to go
back and level.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
That where I'm coming from here, right as as a
wealth advisor, as a financial advisor, this is not the
world that I tend to live in as far as
I'm not a huge sports betting person. However, I do
have some nephews than a brother who are very big
into this world.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Right, I am more of a.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Hey, I'm going to spend money on something, it better
be a long term play in the market, rather than
sports betting.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
So let's back up.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
I'm trying to think of how long ago this was,
maybe seven eight years ago, I went to my brother's
house to watch a Super Bowl game. This whole neighborhood
was there. I'm used to bet on the you fill
out the little block or whatever they put the numbers in,
if that's the score, the end of.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
That, yes, exactly exactly so like.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
In this this you all might laugh at this because
I think for people in a certain world, like this
is like duh, Amy, But my brother had in his
office projected.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
On the wall an entire spreadsheet.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Of prop bets, and it was an entirely new world,
an entirely.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
New concept to me. That you could have.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Bet on what color gator rade was going to be
thrown on the winnington coach's head at the end of
the game, like what Like that was like mind boggling
to me. And I think it's just so interesting now
because you have these players, you have these coaches.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Let's go back to Pete Rose. That's where I always
go back to. Right. Vilified obviously.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
For maybe changing the outcome of the game, or betting
on the outcome of a game. I wonder if this
is from a player's perspective, from a coach's perspective, a
slightly easier pill to swallow, right, Because if you want
to split hairs here, I think you can. I'm not
necessarily doing something that's going to show the.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Outcome of this game.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
I'm simply saying that the first pitch during this at
bet is probably going to go directly into the dirt.
So if you want to bet on a ball here
rather than the strike, it's probably a safe bet. Right,
And I think that is the slippery slope that this
goes down. It's not all or nothing anymore for people
(03:42):
who can change the outcomes of these things. These bets
allow someone to say, I'm going to put the yellow
gatorade in the bucket and I'm going to tell a
few people, right, And it seems kind of harmless. But
I'm not saying it is.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
But I'm just saying you mentioned the toothpaste come out
of the tube.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
It's all over the.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Place, you know, because its sports betting.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Has changed so significantly over the course of even just
the past few years. So that's exactly what we have
at play here, right, I mean with these NBA players,
you with players with these allegations again, straight, You've got
allegations against I pulled myself out of the game.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I said, I was hurt.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
That's going to change the outcome of the game, which
is very different I think than someone or at least
someone telling themselves this is very different of this one
pitch in this one game. That's the only thing I'm
changing here, right, And so I can't imagine that these
prop bets are going to go.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Down a very slippery slope.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
But who knows.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
What's going to be happening and who would be participating
in these And I think, you know, as someone who's
betting on these, it's just so interesting how like instant
gratification is.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
We're no longer even going to wait until the end
of the game to see the outcome.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Right, we can bet on what's going to happen in
the first minute or quarter or whatever you want.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
About on I think, and it's weird, and look, I
like sports wagering. I'm not going to hide from that.
I'm glad it's legal. I think it's better when it's legal, sure,
but I do think it's we've we've opened up this.
I don't know room where now an athlete can say, hey, look,
I wasn't not trying to help our team win. You know,
(05:26):
in the case of the NBA players, they just took
themselves out right, So hey, you can't accuse me of
missing shots intentionally or intentionally playing bad defense. I just
didn't play. And in the case of these two chuckleheads,
I still might have retired the hitters, I still may
have an Emmanuel Class's case, I still may have gotten
(05:47):
a save. But in this one particular instance, yeah, I
throw a ball which which, by the way, one pitchers
all the time will throw a pitch that is not
necessarily designed to be a strike, where it's designed to
move the hitter's eye level, not to get too deep
into the weeds of pitching.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
That to me is going to be.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Really really hard to police if we continue to have
prop bets.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And on the first to admit I like making prop
bet wagers.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
I mean from my perspective, I think they're more attractive
as well.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I mean because I do not have.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Moa eggers, you know, reams of knowledge of the sports.
But I can bet on one thing right, you know,
and feel pretty good about.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
It, and hey if it doesn't go.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
And I think the reminder that I would say here
is with everything like it has to be money.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
That is extra money. It has to be money, you know.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
I mean, what we see when people get into major
issues with sports betting or any kind of betting, is
they get in over their heads and then they are
throwing good money at bad money trying to bring things
back under their control.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Once you've lost control, you've lost control.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
There's there's no just the next hand, just the next bet,
just the next game.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
It just doesn't work out that way.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
So if you if you're betting responsibly with money, that's,
by the way, not your march for your retirement or
your vacation or your kid's college fund. You know, I
think that that's sports betting, you know, and brought betting too,
can be a lot of fun. So I would say,
you know, one thing is just to think like, you know,
everything in moderation. But second of all, we're still a
(07:28):
little bit in the wild West here, yes, you know,
and this is all new, and so for an amount
of time, I think you have to expect, as someone
who's actively participating in this, that there's going to be
things like this that pop up until we can fully
get our brains and our hands wrapped around this and
(07:48):
provide a slightly safer environment for people to bet.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
And if that is such a thing that could exist.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
I think also when it comes to the two particulars
involved here and even the NBA guys you know, in
in each case there may have been a good short
term reward, right. What's being alleged about these two guys
is they made a couple of grand for throwing individual pitches.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And that sounds nice until you put at risk.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
In Emmanuel Class's case, a multi million dollar contract, right,
and a career that could end up being so lucrative
that it provides his family with generation's worth of wealth.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
And that's a great point.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
And listen, this applies to so many other financial decisions.
And I say this to my clients all the time.
When you're making a money decision, these players, right, do
I throw this pitch and make the five thousand dollars
because I'll take the extra five thousand dollars right now,
not thinking about what happened in the future. What you're
not thinking about is there's a couple of people in
(08:52):
the room every time you make that decision. There's your
current self and your future self. We're always thinking about
the current self. Give me the money now, not ever
thinking about wait a second, long term. This is putting
my entire contract, my entire career, everything that I've worked
for since I was a kid, and first touch to baseball,
or you know, in our kind of everyday world, when
(09:14):
we buy the car now, when we spend double what
we can on vacation or whatever that is put money
into our four oh one k you have to balance
right between what we need now that's going to make
us happy now, that's going to.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Get current needs and also future needs.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
And I would argue that's a balance, and of course
obviously a balance that these dudes were not striking when
they chose to make these decisions that have now put
their career in jeopardy. I mean they're facing all kinds
of charges, you know, wire fraud, money laundering, all of
those things. Certainly not something that you want people talking
about when they're talking about what kind of pitches you're throwing.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Amy Wagner, Wealth advisor from Dean Dorton a couple of
other things.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Really quick.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
We talked about the YouTube versus ESPN thing. I guess
now YouTube subscribers getting a twenty dollars credit because they
can't watch stuff like Saturday college football on ESPN or
Monday night football.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Is there any end of this in sight?
Speaker 4 (10:11):
There's still I mean, there's still negotiating here, and I
wonder I don't have YouTube TV. So a subscription monthly
now for base is a subscription is about eighty three dollars.
They had kind of thrown out there several several days
ago that maybe there would be the opportunity to get
some kind of refund now that has come to fruition
(10:32):
after by the way, missing you know, two weekends of
college football, and I'm sure people are really beside themselves
at this point.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
A couple of things.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
If you're someone who might be getting this is, first
of all, you should get an email at some point.
But second there's a whole and you know, it's like
they never make these things easy. You know, if you
don't automatically log in and have everything there, you have
to go to settings and then you have to go
to updates, and then you have to click through seventeen different.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Things and then click clean clean the refunder whatever. So
for those who haven't got an email, first of all,
check your inbox to see if it's there.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Secondly, looks like there is a way that you can
do it through the system as it set up. You're
just going to have to click through several things.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
There are directions online for that. But listen, twenty bucks
is twenty bucks.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
If you're upset that you're not being able to watch
your favorite sport ball right now, well this is a
way to at least get something for it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Get your twenty bucks and then open a sand duel
account and wager it on a player.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Wager it on the Guardian's pictures.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
That's right, that seems like to go. All right.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I got something I want you to touch on next week.
I'll tell you what it is. Now, are you ready?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Sound good? All?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I read a story.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
About how AI is going to impact how we buy tickets,
especially in the secondary market, and I want to talk
about that next week.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Okay, so many thoughts on that. Yep, I'm ready to go.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
There you go?
Speaker 4 (11:57):
All right?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Amy Wagner, private wealth advisor for Dean Doorton Private Wealth.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Check out deandortonwealth dot com. That's deandortonwealth dot com to
learn the Dean Doorton difference. It's twelve away from five o'clock.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Richard Skinner in just over a half hour on The
Bengals are getting set to play Pittsburgh on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
This is the official home of the Bengals. ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station.
It's Wednesday, which means we talk sports and business and
money with our friend Amy Wagner from Dean Dorton Private Wealth.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
She is a wealth advisor. She is my friend.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
She's here to make us smarter when it comes to
the world of sports and money and business. Amy, what's up, Hey,
how are you. I'm well, I'm good. This baseball betting story,
I think is interesting from a number of different angles.
It's not necessarily getting the play that the NBA guys did,
but to have a couple of now, I guess we'll
(00:32):
call them former Cleveland Guardians pitchers who are being indicted
because it's being alleged that they were fixing pitches. Because
you could bet on the speed of a pitch, you
could bet on the outcome of a pitch, and these
guys were not necessarily trying to lose games or not
necessarily trying to have bad performances, but they were throwing
certain pitches and their associates were benefiting from it. So
(00:57):
I think for a lot of folks, you're not going
to put the toothpape back in the two. Because every
major sports league has gotten in bed with gambling companies
and for full disclosure, I do spots for FanDuel. I
use FanDuel. I like sports wagering. But every sports league
has partnerships with gambling companies. In your opinion, how problematic
are they and how lucrative are they?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Well, I think, first of all, I have to go
back and level.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
That where I'm coming from here, right as as a
wealth advisor, as a financial advisor, this is not the
world that I tend to live in as far as
I'm not a huge sports betting person. However, I do
have some nephews than a brother who are very big
into this world.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Right, I am more of a.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Hey, I'm going to spend money on something, it better
be a long term play in the market, rather than
sports betting.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
So let's back up.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
I'm trying to think of how long ago this was,
maybe seven eight years ago, I went to my brother's
house to watch a Super Bowl game. This whole neighborhood
was there. I'm used to bet on the you fill
out the little block or whatever they put the numbers in,
if that's the score, the end of.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
That, yes, exactly exactly so like.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
In this this you all might laugh at this because
I think for people in a certain world, like this
is like duh, Amy, But my brother had in his
office projected.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
On the wall an entire spreadsheet.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Of prop bets, and it was an entirely new world,
an entirely.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
New concept to me. That you could have.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Bet on what color gator rade was going to be
thrown on the winnington coach's head at the end of
the game, like what Like that was like mind boggling
to me. And I think it's just so interesting now
because you have these players, you have these coaches.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Let's go back to Pete Rose. That's where I always
go back to. Right. Vilified obviously.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
For maybe changing the outcome of the game, or betting
on the outcome of a game. I wonder if this
is from a player's perspective, from a coach's perspective, a
slightly easier pill to swallow, right, Because if you want
to split hairs here, I think you can. I'm not
necessarily doing something that's going to show the.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Outcome of this game.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
I'm simply saying that the first pitch during this at
bet is probably going to go directly into the dirt.
So if you want to bet on a ball here
rather than the strike, it's probably a safe bet. Right,
And I think that is the slippery slope that this
goes down. It's not all or nothing anymore for people
(03:42):
who can change the outcomes of these things. These bets
allow someone to say, I'm going to put the yellow
gatorade in the bucket and I'm going to tell a
few people, right, And it seems kind of harmless. But
I'm not saying it is.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
But I'm just saying you mentioned the toothpaste come out
of the tube.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
It's all over the.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Place, you know, because its sports betting.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Has changed so significantly over the course of even just
the past few years. So that's exactly what we have
at play here, right, I mean with these NBA players,
you with players with these allegations again, straight, You've got
allegations against I pulled myself out of the game.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I said, I was hurt.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
That's going to change the outcome of the game, which
is very different I think than someone or at least
someone telling themselves this is very different of this one
pitch in this one game. That's the only thing I'm
changing here, right, And so I can't imagine that these
prop bets are going to go.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Down a very slippery slope.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
But who knows.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
What's going to be happening and who would be participating
in these And I think, you know, as someone who's
betting on these, it's just so interesting how like instant
gratification is.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
We're no longer even going to wait until the end
of the game to see the outcome.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Right, we can bet on what's going to happen in
the first minute or quarter or whatever you want.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
About on I think, and it's weird, and look, I
like sports wagering. I'm not going to hide from that.
I'm glad it's legal. I think it's better when it's legal, sure,
but I do think it's we've we've opened up this.
I don't know room where now an athlete can say, hey, look,
I wasn't not trying to help our team win. You know,
(05:26):
in the case of the NBA players, they just took
themselves out right, So hey, you can't accuse me of
missing shots intentionally or intentionally playing bad defense. I just
didn't play. And in the case of these two chuckleheads,
I still might have retired the hitters, I still may
have an Emmanuel Class's case, I still may have gotten
(05:47):
a save. But in this one particular instance, yeah, I
throw a ball which which, by the way, one pitchers
all the time will throw a pitch that is not
necessarily designed to be a strike, where it's designed to
move the hitter's eye level, not to get too deep
into the weeds of pitching.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
That to me is going to be.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Really really hard to police if we continue to have
prop bets.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And on the first to admit I like making prop
bet wagers.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
I mean from my perspective, I think they're more attractive
as well.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I mean because I do not have.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Moa eggers, you know, reams of knowledge of the sports.
But I can bet on one thing right, you know,
and feel pretty good about.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
It, and hey if it doesn't go.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
And I think the reminder that I would say here
is with everything like it has to be money.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
That is extra money. It has to be money, you know.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
I mean, what we see when people get into major
issues with sports betting or any kind of betting, is
they get in over their heads and then they are
throwing good money at bad money trying to bring things
back under their control.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Once you've lost control, you've lost control.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
There's there's no just the next hand, just the next bet,
just the next game.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
It just doesn't work out that way.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
So if you if you're betting responsibly with money, that's,
by the way, not your march for your retirement or
your vacation or your kid's college fund. You know, I
think that that's sports betting, you know, and brought betting too,
can be a lot of fun. So I would say,
you know, one thing is just to think like, you know,
everything in moderation. But second of all, we're still a
(07:28):
little bit in the wild West here, yes, you know,
and this is all new, and so for an amount
of time, I think you have to expect, as someone
who's actively participating in this, that there's going to be
things like this that pop up until we can fully
get our brains and our hands wrapped around this and
(07:48):
provide a slightly safer environment for people to bet.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
And if that is such a thing that could exist.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
I think also when it comes to the two particulars
involved here and even the NBA guys you know, in
in each case there may have been a good short
term reward, right. What's being alleged about these two guys
is they made a couple of grand for throwing individual pitches.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And that sounds nice until you put at risk.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
In Emmanuel Class's case, a multi million dollar contract, right,
and a career that could end up being so lucrative
that it provides his family with generation's worth of wealth.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
And that's a great point.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
And listen, this applies to so many other financial decisions.
And I say this to my clients all the time.
When you're making a money decision, these players, right, do
I throw this pitch and make the five thousand dollars
because I'll take the extra five thousand dollars right now,
not thinking about what happened in the future. What you're
not thinking about is there's a couple of people in
(08:52):
the room every time you make that decision. There's your
current self and your future self. We're always thinking about
the current self. Give me the money now, not ever
thinking about wait a second, long term. This is putting
my entire contract, my entire career, everything that I've worked
for since I was a kid, and first touch to baseball,
or you know, in our kind of everyday world, when
(09:14):
we buy the car now, when we spend double what
we can on vacation or whatever that is put money
into our four oh one k you have to balance
right between what we need now that's going to make
us happy now, that's going to.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Get current needs and also future needs.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
And I would argue that's a balance, and of course
obviously a balance that these dudes were not striking when
they chose to make these decisions that have now put
their career in jeopardy. I mean they're facing all kinds
of charges, you know, wire fraud, money laundering, all of
those things. Certainly not something that you want people talking
about when they're talking about what kind of pitches you're throwing.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Amy Wagner, Wealth advisor from Dean Dorton a couple of
other things.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Really quick.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
We talked about the YouTube versus ESPN thing. I guess
now YouTube subscribers getting a twenty dollars credit because they
can't watch stuff like Saturday college football on ESPN or
Monday night football.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Is there any end of this in sight?
Speaker 4 (10:11):
There's still I mean, there's still negotiating here, and I
wonder I don't have YouTube TV. So a subscription monthly
now for base is a subscription is about eighty three dollars.
They had kind of thrown out there several several days
ago that maybe there would be the opportunity to get
some kind of refund now that has come to fruition
(10:32):
after by the way, missing you know, two weekends of
college football, and I'm sure people are really beside themselves
at this point.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
A couple of things.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
If you're someone who might be getting this is, first
of all, you should get an email at some point.
But second there's a whole and you know, it's like
they never make these things easy. You know, if you
don't automatically log in and have everything there, you have
to go to settings and then you have to go
to updates, and then you have to click through seventeen different.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Things and then click clean clean the refunder whatever. So
for those who haven't got an email, first of all,
check your inbox to see if it's there.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Secondly, looks like there is a way that you can
do it through the system as it set up. You're
just going to have to click through several things.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
There are directions online for that. But listen, twenty bucks
is twenty bucks.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
If you're upset that you're not being able to watch
your favorite sport ball right now, well this is a
way to at least get something for it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Get your twenty bucks and then open a sand duel
account and wager it on a player.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Wager it on the Guardian's pictures.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
That's right, that seems like to go. All right.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I got something I want you to touch on next week.
I'll tell you what it is. Now, are you ready?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Sound good? All?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I read a story.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
About how AI is going to impact how we buy tickets,
especially in the secondary market, and I want to talk
about that next week.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Okay, so many thoughts on that. Yep, I'm ready to go.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
There you go?
Speaker 4 (11:57):
All right?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Amy Wagner, private wealth advisor for Dean Doorton Private Wealth.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Check out deandortonwealth dot com. That's deandortonwealth dot com to
learn the Dean Doorton difference. It's twelve away from five o'clock.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Richard Skinner in just over a half hour on The
Bengals are getting set to play Pittsburgh on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
This is the official home of the Bengals. ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station.
Mo Egger News
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