April 29, 2025 • 24 mins
Bengals beat writer for The Athletic and host of the Growler Podcast Paul Dehner Jr. joins the show to break down the Cincinnati Bengals draft.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Edwards is a really good NFL draft analyst. He joins
us in one hour. Paul Danner Junior is a really
good beat writer and podcaster covering the Bengals, the Athletic
dot Com and the Growler podcast, which tonight they've got
a live a live show at five o'clock, which is
why Paul is not here with me in studio. We'll
get to the draft, but tonight you're gonna be downtown
(00:21):
at the Banks at Nation Bar and Grill MGM Sportsbook.
What's going to be happening tonight starting at five o'clock.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, So, as we do this every year, it's one
of my favorite shows. We'll have a Bengals Director of
College Scouting, Mike Potts will be a nation taking questions
from us as we kind of talked through the picks,
some of the debates that happened in the background, the
process for the whole scouting team in terms of landing
these guys. It's all all kinds of really interesting information
(00:50):
and background, and Mike is fantastic to offer up his
time and we kind of throw a party around that.
So we'll have a we'll be doing giveaways and a
good friends the creators are going to be down there
with some free ice cream for people, which always.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Is a hit.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
They've got you know, deals, we're giving away some preseason tickets,
all that type of stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
So it's gonna be a great time down there. So
it should be fun.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So that'd be tonight at five o'clock and weather permitting,
there'll be a ball game across the streets, so you
can kind of go do a two for here, Paul
talka Bengals, by the way, is your first question going
to be, Hey, I didn't realize they don't have defensive
tackles in college.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, we might, it might come up.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
It might come up.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
The idea about maybe maybe a pass rushing defensive tackle
would have been an option. It's it's really fascinating because
I was really interested in when the conversation on one
of the.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Days that Al Golden was talking to us last weekend.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
It was all a blur, but he he kind of
went off into the idea of, you know, we really
liked the idea of using these defensive ends inside on
passing downs. I think a little bit more versatility in
terms of you know, some of the linebackers, the off
ball linebackers being able to rush off the edge and
the edges being able to go into the middle and
a little bit more versatility in there, so you can
(02:10):
start to see the idea of maybe a plan of
utilizing some of these bigger edges to take some of
the heat off.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
The defensive tackles to pass rush.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
But it still feels like there should have been one,
right like it.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
There should have been one.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
There should have and it feels like it was just
somehow came up missing.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
And the draft can go that way.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
But yeah, I'm fascinated to hear some of some of
the background and how you end up in this place
right now where it feels like that's the one thing
that just you're just surprised because if we were making
a list MO at the beginning of the year, Yeah,
and we said, okay, what's the one thing, well, pass rushing,
defensive tackle, and they signed BJ Hill, But I don't
(02:52):
we knew it.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
BJ Hill was they need another guy with that kind
of juice.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
And I just don't think you can really bank on
Chris Jenkins to become at when you consider kind of
what he was last year in terms of win raid
and and that kind of production.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I mean, that's a that's.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
A crazy leap to think that he's gonna suddenly become
a really dynamic guy and for that, so I just, yeah,
you would have thought that would have been the number
one thing that they would get in free agency. They didn't,
and here they didn't, and so they're gonna have to
kind of alter figure out what their plan is going
to be to make up for that.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I guess, well, I can't imagine how many times I
don't know, I don't know how many years you've been
doing mock drafts, like in the in the various publications
you have covered the Bengals. How many mock drafts have
you done? Right, Well, yeah, I mean it is a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
We're probably an uncomfortable number I believe, will do with it.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I've got to think this year's exercise was the first
time that the position you had them addressing in round
one went totally unaddressed.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
That doesn't happen, Yeah, no, no, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I mean I feel like.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
It's also a thing where once you got reached a
certain level, I guess you'd just say, we're gonna there
are other holes and this is all the needs.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
And we talked about this in the lead up.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
There's so many needs here and there's just not enough picks,
and it was you gotta add more picks. And because
of that, I think you end up in this.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Conversation was there were just too many.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Needs and and that's where like the fourth round pick
of Barrett Carter out of Clemson, you know, I sort
of circle as maybe maybe the area where I would
take the biggest issue in that nothing about the player.
It's strictly about the process and the position of doubling
up at linebacker when finding someone to be a backup
(04:43):
linebacker or whatever, or do I feel like you can
you can accomplish that. There's other guys. You got your starter.
You you aggressively went after the position in round two,
and you still haven't touched pass rushing defensive tackle and
throw somebody else in that mix. Like that's a point
in the draft where you d you know, Atkins in
the fourth round one year, like take the.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Dart throw at that position right there.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Whether it's like there were guys out there you can
pick whoever you liked and and let that player try
to get in there and try to bring you some
of that element that you don't have. Rather than double
up at linebacker, and I get it. They're like, we
have a big vision for these linebackers and what they
can be, and he's the great fit.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
So we go with the player.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
And I'll be looked forward to Mike's discussion about that
and that decision there in the fourth round tonight. But
like that to me was the spot where you could say, Okay,
that makes sense. There's the depth of this draft showing up.
There's your value. You didn't get it in round one,
but you find it right there, and they can come
in and maybe contribute and grow into something.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
I like that. Surprised to see that not happen in
that particular spot.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You wrote about how this draft was about the Bengals
bringing more adults into the room. In fact, they quite
literally drafted a guy who has a wife and two kids,
and Demetrius Knight junior.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Like we always joke about that, right, he's got a
wife and two kids.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
He's twenty five years old, and like, I understand it,
and I value that.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Bengals value that.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
You want high character guys if their team captains, if
they're leaders. You know, Demetrius Knight was a one year
player at South Carolina and was instantly voted a team captain.
That's not nothing yet there is the cynical part of me,
who when I read that, I go, cool, that's all
well and good. This is like talking about your date
having a great personality.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
You know, and there's nothing wrong. But that's what that's
what will be the lasting seat. No, this is this
is a shadow for you. Okay for me.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Do you know who you're talking to me?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I respect that, but that's like, that's the thing that's
great at first, But what has longevity, But what actually
really matters, the personality is what keeps you around in
the long run.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Personality wins in January.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Okay, I mean, all right, I'm just saying it's not
what I believe in it too.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
But it's not like, wait, I don't think they sacrifice character.
I don't think they sacrificed talent in that regard, you
know what I mean. I don't think it was I mean,
I don't think you're you're taking like some massive drop
back in the level of the player on the field
just to like bring in a bunch of really good dudes.
I just think there was value placed on that as
(07:26):
being part.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Of this creature.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Site was also by the way, voted MVP of one
of the best defenses in the SEC last year, and
so it's it's not like you're taking somebody who was
a scrub, but a leader.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
I just think having that.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Theme across was about the mess of last year. And
we heard Zach Taylor talk about this at MULTIPLEA and
Palm Beach. He talked about this a little bit and
some other times this year about in terms of changing
the offseason program and what they want to accomplish. It's
about finding way for this team to be closer together,
for this team to feel more united and not be
(08:01):
full of distractions and finger pointing and guys that aren't
doing their part and people getting evicted multiple times. And
like all the show Sheldon Rankin thing, all of what
happened last year, like it was just a constant state
of that. I think there's a real sense internally of
let's get our arms back around this thing.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It went out of control.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
We tried to dabble in dropping people into our good
culture and it poisoned the culture in a little bit
where it became too much of a show when you
threw it all together. And I think this and the
way they bet on very much known quantities, even though
the guys they went outside for where guys that their
(08:46):
coaches knew directly with like really shore things in terms
of who they knew they were bringing in and just
trying to bet on personalities and people they knew they
could count on that would be reliable, that would be reponsible,
and like I said, sort of adults in the room.
And so that theme, it's hard to miss that it's
Smackshew in the face when you look at these six picks,
(09:08):
because that is the one thing that was consistent across.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
All of them.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
First time, I guess has called me shallow, So congratulations
on that.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Very good.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I said, you're beating shallow oh oh every day for
three hours, and frankly even more so in my personal life.
You wrote about your favorite pick being Dylan Fairchild, and
I'm excited for this because I'm excited and you wrote
about this separately, but I'm excited to see how the
marriage of what Scott Peters wants to do with his
(09:41):
offensive lineman and him getting this pick. I'm excited to
see what that looks like and really excited to see
what that looks like if this works moving forward in
subsequent traps when they hopefully keep drafting really good offensive linemen.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
How everybody loves to complain about how you can't just
keep doing the same thing over and over again and
expect different results. Right, We get fed the definition of
insanity line all the time. This is this is exactly
what I think everybody has been asking for from the
organization for a while. Do things differently in how you
(10:16):
draft and develop offensive linemen. Do things differently because what
you're doing, what has been done here over.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
The last decade, ain't it?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And there this is an example of that, a perfect
example of that. Both of these picks really Jalen Rivers
as well. They went to Scott Peters, who is very different.
He's got this, you know, he's got the background in
jiu jitsu.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Do you hear about that? And you yeah, yeah, yeah,
and so, but he's different.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
He's different than the types of guys that they necessarily
had before looking for a specific fit for what he
stresses a little bit and a little bit more athleticism,
not as much just give me the biggest guy and
let's push people around. They still have that into some degree,
but and then investing in it, you know they so rarely.
(11:06):
They hardly ever used those second and third round picks
on offensive linemen over the years, and that's what they you.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
That's where you need to make hay there.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
And yeah, they've had misses in the past, but invest
a little heavier. Trust your offensive line coach that you
hired to do things differently, and believe in him when
he says like, this guy works for me, this is
this is the type of player that I need. And
bet on a person that you that you put some
research and time into. And lord knows they did. I
mean they sent not just Scott Peters and Mike Potts,
(11:35):
but Dan Pitcher went to Georgia to specifically learn and
work with those three interior offensive linemen that were in
their group there and know about them. The moment I
heard that, I was like, well one of those three
is going to be a Bengal because that it was
clear that they saw this could be the answer. And
you hear about what happened when they went down there
in terms of how how Peters worked with those guys
(11:56):
and found Okay, give it to him. Then believe in
you've got that certain point. You've got to believe what
your coach is telling you that he wants to do
things differently. Will let him do things differently, investing it,
value it, and see what turns out. I just it
may not work out. He may be the latest in
a long line of busts, and we'll put him in
the guard graveyard with everybody else. But like I just,
(12:20):
I love the idea of trying it from a different
point of view and a different type of player and
believing in what your new offensive line coach wants to
do and try to hope.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
That that will pay off for you a different way.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
All Right, Paul hank tight because there's one more draft prospect.
I want to ask you about it, and then we
have to talk about what this draft means for a
handful of players who are here for the twenty twenty
four Bengals experience. Will do that when we come back.
Sports headlines as well, Paul Danner Junior Fromthathletic dot Com
and the Growler Podcast. It's twenty seven away from four
o'clock on OEGAR. This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports
(12:57):
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KELSEYSHEV dot Com, Reds and Cardinals again tonight at GABB Cincinnati,
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on the hill six forty tonight on a seven hundred
W Welwjake Frayley is back in the starting lineup tonight
(13:17):
after getting scratched maybe thirty minutes before first pitch last night.
Paul Danner Juniors with us for another segment the Growler
Podcast Live Downtown at the Nation Bar and Grill at
the Banks. MGM Sportsbook also obviously covered the Bengals for
the Athletic One More. One more player that the Bengals
(13:38):
drafted that I want to ask you about, Taj Brooks.
So I know I mentioned on your podcast that we
did on Sunday Night with Charlie Goldsmith and Jay Morrison.
I watched Taj when Texas Tech played U See, and
Toaj Brooks was awesome. One hundred and seventy two yards
rushing two touchdowns. The Bearcats could not tackle him, and
so I take what I saw from him, what I
(14:00):
know about him, the type of runner he is. Add
that to what the Bengals already have I don't know, man,
I think the Bengals have a chance to have a
pretty awesome running back room.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
It's so funny you said that.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I think I might have just wrote that exact line
in my fifty three man roster preview is that I
love that.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
It's hard not to love the makeup of the room.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, Like you have the veterans, you have guys that
have excelled in roles that you're going to ask them
to play in this league. Samaj p Rn he has
excelled in gaining Joe Burrow's trust and this being the
passing down.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Two minute guy.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
And you have Zach Moss who has excelled in multiple
places as the complimentary back and if you need him
to take more snaps, he can and you did that
in Indianapolis. And then you have Chase Brown who has
excelled as being the guy, the workhorse. He has become
an absolute catalyst for your entire offense. They all have
different roles that they're in right now they can play.
(14:58):
And now you sprinkle in somebody who as tons of
potential in terms of the production he put forth in
college and the type. He's also a little different than everybody.
I mean, he's built. He's like five nine, two fifteen
or whatever. He is. He's just this this like load
the ground block of granite that just that has insane
(15:19):
lateral agility. You can use him in short yardage to
help so many of that short yardage failure issues that
we've seen in the past. That could be a big
part of that. Like, there's a lot of different ways
you can use him, but it's just a different young
piece seats.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
See what happens.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I mean, a mix of young players and veterans and
guys that have success in specific roles.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Like that's what a good room looks.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Like, that's what a good So depending on the game
plan for each week, you can see which player you
maybe want to tap into a little bit more or
maybe one week. It's just what we saw the second
half of the last season, which is just keep feed
and Chase Brown at him. But in case anything happens,
you like and you're comfortable with what you have behind him.
I just they were just so uncomfortable with what they
had behind him in years. It just it almost it's
(16:02):
starkly different when you look at it now, because it's
just it's felt been there for a couple of years now,
and so yeah, I think it's easy to love the
makeup because it's a good room.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I have eleven a m tomorrow in the When do
we get the press release about Jermaine Pratt being cut pool?
Speaker 3 (16:20):
What did you take? You know I would have taken.
I would have already lost. I don't you know. It's
it's been the writing on the wall forever. Whatever is
happening there, whether.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
It's trying to I don't know, trying to get a
get a pick still out of something and we're still
trying to do the trade thing. I just you know,
maybe there's maybe paperwork cup lost. Maybe there was a
fax machine er. Yeah, I mean I think there's maxing
stuff in. Yeah, I'm sure it's probably a fax machine situation.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
I thought it was hilarious.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Zach was talking to you guys during the seventh round
and I'm like, I guess, I guess I'm not unloading
Jermaine Pratt for a seven.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
So okay, draft is over?
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah, No, I didn't. Yeah, I didn't think that.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
I mean, I'm I've been the impression that I don't
know who's taking on that salary where everybody on earth
knows that they're just letting him go, and so you know, yeah,
there's I'm not quite sure on the exact timing.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
I don't mind your number, though, I think that that
could be. That could be an excellent number of all right, eleven.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
I am a couple of other things really quickly.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
And you wrote about the players, Jermaine being one of
them that this draft class will impact, and you wrote
about Trey Hendrickson, and god knows you and I have
beaten this topic to death, but it did feel to
me once Friday came and went that his his fate
so to speak, and his fates go, it's not the
worst fate ever. His faith so to speak as it
(17:45):
relates to the Bengals has been sealed. Was that a
good way of winning it?
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I think so that that certainly for this year, they're
tied together. I mean in whatever way that he wants
to be tied. You know, they they have him under contract,
they have their future plan set. I'm not gonna say
that it. I don't want to say anything in this
regard because well, one, I don't want him immediately go
(18:11):
on Pat McAfee and be talking about me. But like,
but but I also It's also been an unpredictable situation
to this point a little bit. It's you never quite know.
But it certainly feels like the idea of this long term,
big money extension, if it ever was on the table,
certainly feels gone. Now when you have Shamar Stewart, you
(18:33):
have Miles Murphy, they have young players the future in place,
so to speak, and those guys need to play.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
So that's gonna be part of this.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
But I do think that they're gonna have to figure
out what that compromise is for this year or for
a year and two, whatever he wants to do, or
you know, as as Katie Blackburn sort of puts it, like,
you know there, it is like it's it is what
makes you comfortable, what makes you happy with this current situation,
and what might make him happy is just playing out
(19:07):
this year and hitting free agency. And I think that's
certainly on the table. It is something that can be
chosen here. And so it's not I don't feel like
an end is near, that's for sure. It feels like
this conflict's going to carry on. And isn't that great
for you and me and all of us to get
to talk about this more but the ratings.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
But the ratings bananza.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Continues exactly because beyond that, like what I always ask
you this after the draft, what what else is on
the to do list.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
For the past?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I mean, yeah, I mean that's figuring out Trey Hendrickson
feels like the last big thing safety I certainly think
you have to have a conversation about right now.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
There are seven.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Safeties that have not signed anywhere yet that played at
least fifty percent of the snaps on their team last year.
So if you look at that room and you say, okay,
you know Stone and Jordan Battle and Tython Anderson who
who I think is low key a really interesting guy
to watching this, and Dejon Anthony and me say, it
really feels like you could use a veteran here right
(20:13):
like you could use something to bring another body. There
are guys that played a lot last year. How much
of them that you could choose from? Probably not that one. Uh,
there are a bunch of guys out there that you
could be choosing from and deciding if you wanted to
bring in as a veteran backup at this point, that
(20:34):
would make a lot of sense. So that would be
on the list to discuss and see where it lands.
But outside of that, you know, I think they're they're
in a decent place. I mean, the defensive tackle situation,
we'll see. I don't know anything that's gonna really move
the needle in terms of what could be added there
at this point, but you know, I think that they're
(20:55):
in a pretty decent place in terms of where they
wanted to be coming out of the draft personnel standpoint.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
You also mentioned that Jermaine Burton has been at the facility,
and maybe it's wrong of me, but I just assume
maybe he was living.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
There now.
Speaker 6 (21:10):
This was asked, that was as you know, I don't
know how you don't go there at that point. It's like, look,
it's been really tough to kind of get somebody to
let me live. What I would he it would make sense. No,
I mean, he sees you know what I I.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
I am not. I am going to applaud anybody making
an effort.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yes, if it lasts, then that's great for him in
his career and for the Bengals, and and you hope
anybody that's had hard times can turn them around, and
and and maybe maybe he can.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
And the Bengals have certainly left open a path.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Sure, you know, I mean there are the kick return
position is there, the back up, the backup wide receiver
position is still just sitting there. And and if if
it can be making good on some of his talent
and and you know, being yes, getting some trust back.
It's just the hard part for me is how much
(22:06):
distrust comes out of last year, Like, sure, how much
does he have to do to make you not think
that you're still one surprising day away from being back
in some of the same spots. And so it's gonna
take a lot. It's certainly going to take a lot
more than a couple of weekends where you see him
in the cafeteria, you know, saying he's trying to be
doing the right things.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
It's gonna take a lot more than that.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
The important part to me and I to me, this
is gonna be what's worth paying attention to. Is you
You mentioned that t Higgins has shown an interest in
Jermaine Burton, And I've always looked at this from like
from his perspective, like, dude, you've got you've got two
guys who are are where you want to be, Like,
you've got two guys who have figured it out and
(22:48):
maybe they're you know, more athletically gifted, but still like,
there are two guys right there that are, you know,
shining examples of what you should be, that you could
reach out in touch and spend time with and learn from.
And I'm sure pick the brain of and I hope
for his sake, and as much as we joke about it,
I hope for his sake he takes advantage of that
sort of resource. And with t specifically because you reference
(23:12):
to him, but I'll assume Jamar as well, being willing
to open themselves up to the guy. I hope, I
hope he takes advantage of that, because those guys, those
guys are what Jermaine Burton to a large degree can
and I'm sure wants to be.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
And that was the idea behind taking the risk in
the first place on him, Yeah, was that. You know,
It's like when somebody who has some growing up to
do gets into a room and sees these two guys
and has a coach like Troy Walters, and you're surrounded
by that. You can't foster a better environment for someone
to just follow the leader and just go, man, I
(23:46):
do what they do. I could be just like them.
And it's that simple, and you don't have better examples
than those guys. So I think that was the reason
behind taking the risk in the first place. Maybe it
just took a year of growing pains to get to
that point. Maybe he'll never get to that point. We'll
probably find out soon. I will say, it's hard to
believe that the leash is going to be very long,
considering everything that happened last year.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
All Right, have a great show tonight, five o'clock, MGM,
Sports Book, Nation Bar and Grill at the Banks. Starts
at five o'clock. And you know, the ballgame is dependent
upon the weather. The show tonight, however, at five o'clock
is going to happen rain or shine.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
So go there and hang out rain shine.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
There's a roof, there's everything. It's convenient. Starts rating.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Yeah, all right, thank you as always. We'll see you
back here next week.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
All right later, all right.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Paul Danner Junior at the Athletic dot Com and the
Growler Podcast. By the way, Sports Information Solutions has the
Bengals with the third best draft class. That's an outlier,
so I had to get on one of their draft analysts.
He joins us in thirty minutes on ESPN fifteen to
thirty Cincinnati Sports station
Edwards is a really good NFL draft analyst. He joins
us in one hour. Paul Danner Junior is a really
good beat writer and podcaster covering the Bengals, the Athletic
dot Com and the Growler podcast, which tonight they've got
a live a live show at five o'clock, which is
why Paul is not here with me in studio. We'll
get to the draft, but tonight you're gonna be downtown
(00:21):
at the Banks at Nation Bar and Grill MGM Sportsbook.
What's going to be happening tonight starting at five o'clock.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, So, as we do this every year, it's one
of my favorite shows. We'll have a Bengals Director of
College Scouting, Mike Potts will be a nation taking questions
from us as we kind of talked through the picks,
some of the debates that happened in the background, the
process for the whole scouting team in terms of landing
these guys. It's all all kinds of really interesting information
(00:50):
and background, and Mike is fantastic to offer up his
time and we kind of throw a party around that.
So we'll have a we'll be doing giveaways and a
good friends the creators are going to be down there
with some free ice cream for people, which always.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Is a hit.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
They've got you know, deals, we're giving away some preseason tickets,
all that type of stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
So it's gonna be a great time down there. So
it should be fun.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So that'd be tonight at five o'clock and weather permitting,
there'll be a ball game across the streets, so you
can kind of go do a two for here, Paul
talka Bengals, by the way, is your first question going
to be, Hey, I didn't realize they don't have defensive
tackles in college.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, we might, it might come up.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
It might come up.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
The idea about maybe maybe a pass rushing defensive tackle
would have been an option. It's it's really fascinating because
I was really interested in when the conversation on one
of the.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Days that Al Golden was talking to us last weekend.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
It was all a blur, but he he kind of
went off into the idea of, you know, we really
liked the idea of using these defensive ends inside on
passing downs. I think a little bit more versatility in
terms of you know, some of the linebackers, the off
ball linebackers being able to rush off the edge and
the edges being able to go into the middle and
a little bit more versatility in there, so you can
(02:10):
start to see the idea of maybe a plan of
utilizing some of these bigger edges to take some of
the heat off.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
The defensive tackles to pass rush.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
But it still feels like there should have been one,
right like it.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
There should have been one.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
There should have and it feels like it was just
somehow came up missing.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
And the draft can go that way.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
But yeah, I'm fascinated to hear some of some of
the background and how you end up in this place
right now where it feels like that's the one thing
that just you're just surprised because if we were making
a list MO at the beginning of the year, Yeah,
and we said, okay, what's the one thing, well, pass rushing,
defensive tackle, and they signed BJ Hill, But I don't
(02:52):
we knew it.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
BJ Hill was they need another guy with that kind
of juice.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
And I just don't think you can really bank on
Chris Jenkins to become at when you consider kind of
what he was last year in terms of win raid
and and that kind of production.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I mean, that's a that's.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
A crazy leap to think that he's gonna suddenly become
a really dynamic guy and for that, so I just, yeah,
you would have thought that would have been the number
one thing that they would get in free agency. They didn't,
and here they didn't, and so they're gonna have to
kind of alter figure out what their plan is going
to be to make up for that.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I guess, well, I can't imagine how many times I
don't know, I don't know how many years you've been
doing mock drafts, like in the in the various publications
you have covered the Bengals. How many mock drafts have
you done? Right, Well, yeah, I mean it is a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
We're probably an uncomfortable number I believe, will do with it.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I've got to think this year's exercise was the first
time that the position you had them addressing in round
one went totally unaddressed.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
That doesn't happen, Yeah, no, no, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I mean I feel like.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
It's also a thing where once you got reached a
certain level, I guess you'd just say, we're gonna there
are other holes and this is all the needs.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
And we talked about this in the lead up.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
There's so many needs here and there's just not enough picks,
and it was you gotta add more picks. And because
of that, I think you end up in this.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Conversation was there were just too many.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Needs and and that's where like the fourth round pick
of Barrett Carter out of Clemson, you know, I sort
of circle as maybe maybe the area where I would
take the biggest issue in that nothing about the player.
It's strictly about the process and the position of doubling
up at linebacker when finding someone to be a backup
(04:43):
linebacker or whatever, or do I feel like you can
you can accomplish that. There's other guys. You got your starter.
You you aggressively went after the position in round two,
and you still haven't touched pass rushing defensive tackle and
throw somebody else in that mix. Like that's a point
in the draft where you d you know, Atkins in
the fourth round one year, like take the.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Dart throw at that position right there.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Whether it's like there were guys out there you can
pick whoever you liked and and let that player try
to get in there and try to bring you some
of that element that you don't have. Rather than double
up at linebacker, and I get it. They're like, we
have a big vision for these linebackers and what they
can be, and he's the great fit.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
So we go with the player.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
And I'll be looked forward to Mike's discussion about that
and that decision there in the fourth round tonight. But
like that to me was the spot where you could say, Okay,
that makes sense. There's the depth of this draft showing up.
There's your value. You didn't get it in round one,
but you find it right there, and they can come
in and maybe contribute and grow into something.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
I like that. Surprised to see that not happen in
that particular spot.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You wrote about how this draft was about the Bengals
bringing more adults into the room. In fact, they quite
literally drafted a guy who has a wife and two kids,
and Demetrius Knight junior.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Like we always joke about that, right, he's got a
wife and two kids.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
He's twenty five years old, and like, I understand it,
and I value that.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Bengals value that.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
You want high character guys if their team captains, if
they're leaders. You know, Demetrius Knight was a one year
player at South Carolina and was instantly voted a team captain.
That's not nothing yet there is the cynical part of me,
who when I read that, I go, cool, that's all
well and good. This is like talking about your date
having a great personality.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
You know, and there's nothing wrong. But that's what that's
what will be the lasting seat. No, this is this
is a shadow for you. Okay for me.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Do you know who you're talking to me?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I respect that, but that's like, that's the thing that's
great at first, But what has longevity, But what actually
really matters, the personality is what keeps you around in
the long run.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Personality wins in January.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Okay, I mean, all right, I'm just saying it's not
what I believe in it too.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
But it's not like, wait, I don't think they sacrifice character.
I don't think they sacrificed talent in that regard, you
know what I mean. I don't think it was I mean,
I don't think you're you're taking like some massive drop
back in the level of the player on the field
just to like bring in a bunch of really good dudes.
I just think there was value placed on that as
(07:26):
being part.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Of this creature.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Site was also by the way, voted MVP of one
of the best defenses in the SEC last year, and
so it's it's not like you're taking somebody who was
a scrub, but a leader.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
I just think having that.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Theme across was about the mess of last year. And
we heard Zach Taylor talk about this at MULTIPLEA and
Palm Beach. He talked about this a little bit and
some other times this year about in terms of changing
the offseason program and what they want to accomplish. It's
about finding way for this team to be closer together,
for this team to feel more united and not be
(08:01):
full of distractions and finger pointing and guys that aren't
doing their part and people getting evicted multiple times. And
like all the show Sheldon Rankin thing, all of what
happened last year, like it was just a constant state
of that. I think there's a real sense internally of
let's get our arms back around this thing.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It went out of control.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
We tried to dabble in dropping people into our good
culture and it poisoned the culture in a little bit
where it became too much of a show when you
threw it all together. And I think this and the
way they bet on very much known quantities, even though
the guys they went outside for where guys that their
(08:46):
coaches knew directly with like really shore things in terms
of who they knew they were bringing in and just
trying to bet on personalities and people they knew they
could count on that would be reliable, that would be reponsible,
and like I said, sort of adults in the room.
And so that theme, it's hard to miss that it's
Smackshew in the face when you look at these six picks,
(09:08):
because that is the one thing that was consistent across.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
All of them.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
First time, I guess has called me shallow, So congratulations
on that.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Very good.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I said, you're beating shallow oh oh every day for
three hours, and frankly even more so in my personal life.
You wrote about your favorite pick being Dylan Fairchild, and
I'm excited for this because I'm excited and you wrote
about this separately, but I'm excited to see how the
marriage of what Scott Peters wants to do with his
(09:41):
offensive lineman and him getting this pick. I'm excited to
see what that looks like and really excited to see
what that looks like if this works moving forward in
subsequent traps when they hopefully keep drafting really good offensive linemen.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
How everybody loves to complain about how you can't just
keep doing the same thing over and over again and
expect different results. Right, We get fed the definition of
insanity line all the time. This is this is exactly
what I think everybody has been asking for from the
organization for a while. Do things differently in how you
(10:16):
draft and develop offensive linemen. Do things differently because what
you're doing, what has been done here over.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
The last decade, ain't it?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And there this is an example of that, a perfect
example of that. Both of these picks really Jalen Rivers
as well. They went to Scott Peters, who is very different.
He's got this, you know, he's got the background in
jiu jitsu.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Do you hear about that? And you yeah, yeah, yeah,
and so, but he's different.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
He's different than the types of guys that they necessarily
had before looking for a specific fit for what he
stresses a little bit and a little bit more athleticism,
not as much just give me the biggest guy and
let's push people around. They still have that into some degree,
but and then investing in it, you know they so rarely.
(11:06):
They hardly ever used those second and third round picks
on offensive linemen over the years, and that's what they you.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
That's where you need to make hay there.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
And yeah, they've had misses in the past, but invest
a little heavier. Trust your offensive line coach that you
hired to do things differently, and believe in him when
he says like, this guy works for me, this is
this is the type of player that I need. And
bet on a person that you that you put some
research and time into. And lord knows they did. I
mean they sent not just Scott Peters and Mike Potts,
(11:35):
but Dan Pitcher went to Georgia to specifically learn and
work with those three interior offensive linemen that were in
their group there and know about them. The moment I
heard that, I was like, well one of those three
is going to be a Bengal because that it was
clear that they saw this could be the answer. And
you hear about what happened when they went down there
in terms of how how Peters worked with those guys
(11:56):
and found Okay, give it to him. Then believe in
you've got that certain point. You've got to believe what
your coach is telling you that he wants to do
things differently. Will let him do things differently, investing it,
value it, and see what turns out. I just it
may not work out. He may be the latest in
a long line of busts, and we'll put him in
the guard graveyard with everybody else. But like I just,
(12:20):
I love the idea of trying it from a different
point of view and a different type of player and
believing in what your new offensive line coach wants to
do and try to hope.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
That that will pay off for you a different way.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
All Right, Paul hank tight because there's one more draft prospect.
I want to ask you about it, and then we
have to talk about what this draft means for a
handful of players who are here for the twenty twenty
four Bengals experience. Will do that when we come back.
Sports headlines as well, Paul Danner Junior Fromthathletic dot Com
and the Growler Podcast. It's twenty seven away from four
o'clock on OEGAR. This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports
(12:57):
station of Kelsey Chevrolet, Home of lifetime training protection at
guarantee credit approval from their family to yours for live
KELSEYSHEV dot Com, Reds and Cardinals again tonight at GABB Cincinnati,
looking for a sixth straight win. Brady Singer Miles michaelis
on the hill six forty tonight on a seven hundred
W Welwjake Frayley is back in the starting lineup tonight
(13:17):
after getting scratched maybe thirty minutes before first pitch last night.
Paul Danner Juniors with us for another segment the Growler
Podcast Live Downtown at the Nation Bar and Grill at
the Banks. MGM Sportsbook also obviously covered the Bengals for
the Athletic One More. One more player that the Bengals
(13:38):
drafted that I want to ask you about, Taj Brooks.
So I know I mentioned on your podcast that we
did on Sunday Night with Charlie Goldsmith and Jay Morrison.
I watched Taj when Texas Tech played U See, and
Toaj Brooks was awesome. One hundred and seventy two yards
rushing two touchdowns. The Bearcats could not tackle him, and
so I take what I saw from him, what I
(14:00):
know about him, the type of runner he is. Add
that to what the Bengals already have I don't know, man,
I think the Bengals have a chance to have a
pretty awesome running back room.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
It's so funny you said that.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I think I might have just wrote that exact line
in my fifty three man roster preview is that I
love that.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
It's hard not to love the makeup of the room.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, Like you have the veterans, you have guys that
have excelled in roles that you're going to ask them
to play in this league. Samaj p Rn he has
excelled in gaining Joe Burrow's trust and this being the
passing down.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Two minute guy.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
And you have Zach Moss who has excelled in multiple
places as the complimentary back and if you need him
to take more snaps, he can and you did that
in Indianapolis. And then you have Chase Brown who has
excelled as being the guy, the workhorse. He has become
an absolute catalyst for your entire offense. They all have
different roles that they're in right now they can play.
(14:58):
And now you sprinkle in somebody who as tons of
potential in terms of the production he put forth in
college and the type. He's also a little different than everybody.
I mean, he's built. He's like five nine, two fifteen
or whatever. He is. He's just this this like load
the ground block of granite that just that has insane
(15:19):
lateral agility. You can use him in short yardage to
help so many of that short yardage failure issues that
we've seen in the past. That could be a big
part of that. Like, there's a lot of different ways
you can use him, but it's just a different young
piece seats.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
See what happens.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I mean, a mix of young players and veterans and
guys that have success in specific roles.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Like that's what a good room looks.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Like, that's what a good So depending on the game
plan for each week, you can see which player you
maybe want to tap into a little bit more or
maybe one week. It's just what we saw the second
half of the last season, which is just keep feed
and Chase Brown at him. But in case anything happens,
you like and you're comfortable with what you have behind him.
I just they were just so uncomfortable with what they
had behind him in years. It just it almost it's
(16:02):
starkly different when you look at it now, because it's
just it's felt been there for a couple of years now,
and so yeah, I think it's easy to love the
makeup because it's a good room.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I have eleven a m tomorrow in the When do
we get the press release about Jermaine Pratt being cut pool?
Speaker 3 (16:20):
What did you take? You know I would have taken.
I would have already lost. I don't you know. It's
it's been the writing on the wall forever. Whatever is
happening there, whether.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
It's trying to I don't know, trying to get a
get a pick still out of something and we're still
trying to do the trade thing. I just you know,
maybe there's maybe paperwork cup lost. Maybe there was a
fax machine er. Yeah, I mean I think there's maxing
stuff in. Yeah, I'm sure it's probably a fax machine situation.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
I thought it was hilarious.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Zach was talking to you guys during the seventh round
and I'm like, I guess, I guess I'm not unloading
Jermaine Pratt for a seven.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
So okay, draft is over?
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah, No, I didn't. Yeah, I didn't think that.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
I mean, I'm I've been the impression that I don't
know who's taking on that salary where everybody on earth
knows that they're just letting him go, and so you know, yeah,
there's I'm not quite sure on the exact timing.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
I don't mind your number, though, I think that that
could be. That could be an excellent number of all right, eleven.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
I am a couple of other things really quickly.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
And you wrote about the players, Jermaine being one of
them that this draft class will impact, and you wrote
about Trey Hendrickson, and god knows you and I have
beaten this topic to death, but it did feel to
me once Friday came and went that his his fate
so to speak, and his fates go, it's not the
worst fate ever. His faith so to speak as it
(17:45):
relates to the Bengals has been sealed. Was that a
good way of winning it?
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I think so that that certainly for this year, they're
tied together. I mean in whatever way that he wants
to be tied. You know, they they have him under contract,
they have their future plan set. I'm not gonna say
that it. I don't want to say anything in this
regard because well, one, I don't want him immediately go
(18:11):
on Pat McAfee and be talking about me. But like,
but but I also It's also been an unpredictable situation
to this point a little bit. It's you never quite know.
But it certainly feels like the idea of this long term,
big money extension, if it ever was on the table,
certainly feels gone. Now when you have Shamar Stewart, you
(18:33):
have Miles Murphy, they have young players the future in place,
so to speak, and those guys need to play.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
So that's gonna be part of this.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
But I do think that they're gonna have to figure
out what that compromise is for this year or for
a year and two, whatever he wants to do, or
you know, as as Katie Blackburn sort of puts it, like,
you know there, it is like it's it is what
makes you comfortable, what makes you happy with this current situation,
and what might make him happy is just playing out
(19:07):
this year and hitting free agency. And I think that's
certainly on the table. It is something that can be
chosen here. And so it's not I don't feel like
an end is near, that's for sure. It feels like
this conflict's going to carry on. And isn't that great
for you and me and all of us to get
to talk about this more but the ratings.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
But the ratings bananza.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Continues exactly because beyond that, like what I always ask
you this after the draft, what what else is on
the to do list.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
For the past?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I mean, yeah, I mean that's figuring out Trey Hendrickson
feels like the last big thing safety I certainly think
you have to have a conversation about right now.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
There are seven.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Safeties that have not signed anywhere yet that played at
least fifty percent of the snaps on their team last year.
So if you look at that room and you say, okay,
you know Stone and Jordan Battle and Tython Anderson who
who I think is low key a really interesting guy
to watching this, and Dejon Anthony and me say, it
really feels like you could use a veteran here right
(20:13):
like you could use something to bring another body. There
are guys that played a lot last year. How much
of them that you could choose from? Probably not that one. Uh,
there are a bunch of guys out there that you
could be choosing from and deciding if you wanted to
bring in as a veteran backup at this point, that
(20:34):
would make a lot of sense. So that would be
on the list to discuss and see where it lands.
But outside of that, you know, I think they're they're
in a decent place. I mean, the defensive tackle situation,
we'll see. I don't know anything that's gonna really move
the needle in terms of what could be added there
at this point, but you know, I think that they're
(20:55):
in a pretty decent place in terms of where they
wanted to be coming out of the draft personnel standpoint.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
You also mentioned that Jermaine Burton has been at the facility,
and maybe it's wrong of me, but I just assume
maybe he was living.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
There now.
Speaker 6 (21:10):
This was asked, that was as you know, I don't
know how you don't go there at that point. It's like, look,
it's been really tough to kind of get somebody to
let me live. What I would he it would make sense. No,
I mean, he sees you know what I I.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
I am not. I am going to applaud anybody making
an effort.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yes, if it lasts, then that's great for him in
his career and for the Bengals, and and you hope
anybody that's had hard times can turn them around, and
and and maybe maybe he can.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
And the Bengals have certainly left open a path.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Sure, you know, I mean there are the kick return
position is there, the back up, the backup wide receiver
position is still just sitting there. And and if if
it can be making good on some of his talent
and and you know, being yes, getting some trust back.
It's just the hard part for me is how much
(22:06):
distrust comes out of last year, Like, sure, how much
does he have to do to make you not think
that you're still one surprising day away from being back
in some of the same spots. And so it's gonna
take a lot. It's certainly going to take a lot
more than a couple of weekends where you see him
in the cafeteria, you know, saying he's trying to be
doing the right things.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
It's gonna take a lot more than that.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
The important part to me and I to me, this
is gonna be what's worth paying attention to. Is you
You mentioned that t Higgins has shown an interest in
Jermaine Burton, And I've always looked at this from like
from his perspective, like, dude, you've got you've got two
guys who are are where you want to be, Like,
you've got two guys who have figured it out and
(22:48):
maybe they're you know, more athletically gifted, but still like,
there are two guys right there that are, you know,
shining examples of what you should be, that you could
reach out in touch and spend time with and learn from.
And I'm sure pick the brain of and I hope
for his sake, and as much as we joke about it,
I hope for his sake he takes advantage of that
sort of resource. And with t specifically because you reference
(23:12):
to him, but I'll assume Jamar as well, being willing
to open themselves up to the guy. I hope, I
hope he takes advantage of that, because those guys, those
guys are what Jermaine Burton to a large degree can
and I'm sure wants to be.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
And that was the idea behind taking the risk in
the first place on him, Yeah, was that. You know,
It's like when somebody who has some growing up to
do gets into a room and sees these two guys
and has a coach like Troy Walters, and you're surrounded
by that. You can't foster a better environment for someone
to just follow the leader and just go, man, I
(23:46):
do what they do. I could be just like them.
And it's that simple, and you don't have better examples
than those guys. So I think that was the reason
behind taking the risk in the first place. Maybe it
just took a year of growing pains to get to
that point. Maybe he'll never get to that point. We'll
probably find out soon. I will say, it's hard to
believe that the leash is going to be very long,
considering everything that happened last year.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
All Right, have a great show tonight, five o'clock, MGM,
Sports Book, Nation Bar and Grill at the Banks. Starts
at five o'clock. And you know, the ballgame is dependent
upon the weather. The show tonight, however, at five o'clock
is going to happen rain or shine.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
So go there and hang out rain shine.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
There's a roof, there's everything. It's convenient. Starts rating.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Yeah, all right, thank you as always. We'll see you
back here next week.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
All right later, all right.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Paul Danner Junior at the Athletic dot Com and the
Growler Podcast. By the way, Sports Information Solutions has the
Bengals with the third best draft class. That's an outlier,
so I had to get on one of their draft analysts.
He joins us in thirty minutes on ESPN fifteen to
thirty Cincinnati Sports station
Mo Egger News
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