The Mo Egger Show -- 7/21/25

Mo discusses the comments from Mike Brown and Duke Tobin on the Bengals as they head into training camp. He also discusses the Reds taking two of three from the Mets over the weekend and what the Reds could do as the Trade Deadline approaches.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, what's up moegor ESPN fifteen thirty Thanks for listening.
Hopefully you had an awesome weekend. Red's had a good
weekend in New York. FC Cincinnati had a good weekend
in Utah. We'll get to all of that a little
bit later. On Mock Turtle Soup Day for the Bengals
Media Day training camp starting on Wednesday, Mike Brown spoke,
you'll hear from him. Duke Tobin spoke sometimes I'm not

(00:22):
sure why you'll hear from him. Show rundowns available on
Twitter at moegar. Thanks to Emery Federal Credit Union, your
credit union with Art said so in nineteen thirty nine.
Go to EMERYFCU dot org. Don't forget Four weeks from
today at four Bridges Country Club is the Emory Federal
Credit Union golf outing spots are available. Join us, We'll

(00:43):
see which foursome comes in second to mine. Go to
EMORYFCU dot org to sign up. All the proceeds from
that event benefit Cincinnati Children's charities. So I think there's
maybe a touch of optimism as it relates to the
Bengals and Drey Hendrickson a touch of optimism not so
much as it relates to Shamar Stuart. Let's hear from

(01:05):
Mike Brown. This is like the one day a year
we get a chance to play Mike Brown audio, because
it's not like he talks all that often. He talked
earlier today at Bengals Media Day they had mock turtle soup,
which is disgusting. That's neither here nor there because I
wasn't there for that. Ian Rappaport of NFL Media reports
the Bengals have sent a new contract offer to Trey Hendrickson,

(01:27):
the details of which have not necessarily been made clear.
We have been talking about this forever. Ari Meyraf of
the thirty third team says he doesn't believe the two
sides are close. The question as we get closer to tomorrow,
and really as we get closer to Wednesday, is is
Trey Hendrickson going to show up? Is he going to
be there for day one of practice? Is he not

(01:47):
going to show up and start incurring fines if he
shows up? Does that tell us they're closer to a deal.
Lots of questions just about Trey Hendrickson, not to mention
Shamar Stewart, who we'll talk about here in just a second.
This is Mike Brown. Chances are you know who Mike
Brown is. This is Mike Brown just a short while ago,
answering a question about Trey Hendrickson.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
We aren't going to trade Trey. We're working to get
Trey signed as we speak here. There are guys over
in the office working to get that done. I think
it'll get done. Is the way Trey can be. We

(02:28):
like Trey as a person, he's a good guy, but
when it comes to these negotiations, and we've been through
a few of them with him, he pushes hard, he
gets emotional. We never have an easy time of it.

(02:48):
But there's one thing that is consistent. It always gets done,
and I think this one will. But we'll see. I've
been proven wrong before, but that's pretty confident that we'll
get there at the end.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
So there you go. There's Mike Brown, and I feel
like he's kind of right about this. Like there does
always seem to be at least a short term resolution
for these things. Now long term maybe a little bit
of a different stories. Certainly there was no long term
resolution for Jesse Bates, but like remember twenty twenty two
was the summer of Jesse Bates. Is he gonna show up?

(03:23):
Is he not gonna show up? And when I say
show up, who cares about training camp? Now is a
little bit different for Jesse because when Jesse Bates didn't
show up for training camp in twenty twenty two, he
was technically not under contract and so the team could
could not find him. Trey Hendrickson is under contract and so,
as has been pointed out to Trey by Zach Taylor,

(03:43):
the team can find you, and if Trey has an
issue with that, he should take it up with his union.
But for all the talk of Jesse Bates, what are
they gonna do when's he gonna show up? The guy
still showed up for Week one, played the season out,
and then obviously left. For all the talk last year
of Jamar Chase, for all the talk previous summer of

(04:06):
t Higgins, both players were still available on opening Day,
and at the end of the day, I think that's
what most of us care about most. We can debate
the pros and cons to signing Trey hendricks in the
long term for what it's likely going to cost, but
I think what most of us care about is is
the dude going to show up and play football? Week
one for the Bengals and help this team get rid
of it's mo o of losing the first week of

(04:28):
the season every single year. Is Trey Hendrickson going to
be on the field for all seventeen games? Is he
going to help this team win a Super Bowl this year?
And so I still we have discussed now for well
over a calendar year, the pros and cons have signing
Trey long term. And by the way, I do think
there are both pros and cons. And it goes without

(04:52):
saying that we have discussed possibly trading him and what
that may look like. You just heard Mike Brown say
they're not going to trade him. We've talked about this
t Hendrickson thing from a million different perspectives. What matters
most to all of us is does he play this year?
Is he on the field for Week one? And how
good is he in week one based on his availability

(05:12):
or lack thereof during training camp this year. So we'll see,
we'll see. Then there's the Chamar Stewart thing. You'll hear
Duke Tobin a little bit later on attempt to publicly
drive a wedge between Chamar Stewart and his agent, which
I'm here for Uh, you're gonna hear Mike Brown, I
think sounding pretty reasonable as it relates to Shamar Stewart.

(05:35):
Here's that audio.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
You want to know about Stuart and our situation with him. Yes,
and it's still something that is not completed. We feel
that there's really no reason why it shouldn't be. The
issue seems to be about guaranteed money if, in the event,

(06:04):
he acted in a way that was contrary to league
rules or our rules. For example, if he got into
a literally literally a criminal situation, something at that level
that's never happened. We've been here for a long time.

(06:25):
That's never happened, and that's what's holding up this lease
or this contract. And from our vantage point, it's a
form of foolishness. It just ought to get done. There

(06:45):
is no dispute over the money. It's just a dispute
in his mind that I guess if he did something
really deserve punishment, that he would want the whole contract guaranteed,

(07:08):
and we would want to say, well, it isn't guaranteed
if you did something to that level. In that case,
we would step in and take away the guaranteed. Doesn't
mean that we couldn't agree to pay it, but we
wouldn't be forced to pay it. I don't want to

(07:29):
pay somebody who hypothetically could be in jail for four
years at this level of pay. And do I think
any of that's going to happen now? And that's why
I use the word foolishness. It's in my mind at

(07:49):
that level. We want to get it done. We want
to get him in here and working. He's a good
young guy, and he's someone we think will be imported
to our team this year.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Uh, there's about two minutes of Mike Brown on Shamar Stewart.
When it's laid out like that, is is Mike Brown
being unreasonable?

Speaker 3 (08:15):
Now?

Speaker 1 (08:15):
I know what you might have to do here, and
I understand why, because you know, Mike Brown has spent
decades at times taking positions or doing things that are
deeply unpopular and for good reasons. So you might you
might have to strip away some biases here or remove
how you feel about how Mike Brown has run his

(08:36):
franchise for years, and just take take that piece of
audio at phase value, Just look at it in a vacuum.
Take that audio at face value. Take what Mike Brown
said at phase value. Is that perspective at all unreasonable.
We've used the word evolve a lot today. Austin used

(08:58):
the word evolve today and talking about the Bengals in
their contracts, and we've obviously covered this in great detail
over the last couple of months. But what the Bengals
are trying to do is change how they do rookie contracts,
specifically first round picks right with the guaranteed money. We've
talked about this now for what four months. They're trying
to do what a lot of other teams already have done.

(09:21):
They're changing, They're evolving. I'm evolving as well. I believe
in people evolving. People should evolve. I'm evolving as well.
I'm on the Bengal side here, and that's saying something
if you have paid attention at least on this show
to how this discourse has gone. I obviously am like

(09:43):
any other Bengals fan, probably just like you. I just
want Shamar Stewart to play, and I just want Chamar
Stewart to not only play, but put himself in the
best possible position to not only play, but play well.
And that's not showing up for camp in mid August.
It's not showing up right before the first game. It's
signing the contract and reporting now and being on the

(10:04):
field starting on Wednesday and getting caught up with whatever
he missed when he wasn't on the field during mini
camp and OTAs and all that stuff. At the end
of the day, we're all rooting for the same thing.
We might just have differences of opinion on how they
get there. If Shamar Stuart caves and signs with the Bengals,
that's no skin off your back if you think that
Shamar is in the right And if the Bengals cave

(10:26):
and they give Shamar exactly the kind of contract structure
he's looking for, well, then that's no skin off your
back if you feel the opposite. Right at the end
of the day, we just want the dude to play
for the team. But since we're stuck, and since the
Bengals and Shamar Stuart are stuck, I've maintained now for

(10:46):
a week, I think Schamar should just go ahead and
sign the contract because I don't think the Bengals are
gonna budge. Number One. What you just heard from Mike
Brown would suggest the Bengals are probably not gonna budge.
They're probably not gonna budge. Not only did you just
hear that, Mike Brown, but you know, after years of
following this franchise, they're not that likely to budge number two.

(11:07):
Though that put it that way the way you just
heard Mike Brown put it. I can't argue with that. Man,
I can't argue with you know what, we don't think
there's a very good chance that this dude's gonna do
something that he shouldn't, But if he does, we don't
want to pay him. Like I have a really hard time,

(11:27):
as somebody who has spent most of his life either
complaining about or publicly criticizing Mike Brown and the Bengals,
that particular point of view, that perspective, I think it's
really hard to quarrel with. So I'll double down on
what I said last week. Schamar, you've lost signed the contract.

(11:52):
You are not doing yourself any good. You're not doing
your team any good. You're not doing your reputation any
good by letting this out by posting photos of you
in college station sign the contract. You have lost here,
You're not gonna win. And quite frankly, not that I
didn't already feel that way, I think it's really hard

(12:13):
to combat what Mike Brown just said. Yeah, man, you
do something off the field, we don't want to pay you.
We don't think it's gonna happen. The chances are likely
that it's not gonna happen, but we're trying to evolve
with the rest of the league, which is not something
Mike Brown. Jess said, Uh, we don't want to pay
if you get in trouble. I put that way. It's
hard to argue. So since all we do is take sides,

(12:37):
I am team Bengals as it relates to this, and
I haven't been for much of this ordeal, and it
is an ordeal, and let's be honest. If one side
or the other is likely to cave, it ain't the Bengals.
So Schamar, go ahead and admit that. Sign your contract today,
report tomorrow, practice on Wednesday. Five point three seven four

(12:59):
nine fifteenth already is our phone number eight six six
seven h two three seven seven six works as well.
There's been other Bengals news today. Dax Hill and bj
Hill have been cleared to practice, which is good news.
Cincinnati has a new third string quarterback. It's des Ritter.
The Reds went to New York this weekend and took
two out of three. There was one very encouraging thing
about those three games. In New York FC Cincinnati Wednesday,

(13:22):
Thriller and the Bengals are about to start a training camp.
We have a lot going on today at Mulweger on
Twitter thanks to Delta Dental. Delta Dental is building healthy, smart,
vibrant communities for all. Go to Delta Dental oh dot com.
Shamar Stewart has one card remaining. We'll talk about what
that card is. You'll hear Duke Tobin a little bit

(13:45):
later on as well on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
The perspective that I don't really understand is the one
that says, well, Schamar should hold his ground, Like who
who does that help who? Unless you're a big fan
of holdouts and unless you're a big fan of training

(14:05):
camp distractions and off field drama, I don't understand who
that helps. Look, the direction the Bengals want to go
with the structure of their contracts is not going to change.
Even if they were to today cave and do things
Schamar Stewart's way, chances are they're just going to try
to do this next year. What I do not understand
is the perspective, like, it's easy to take sides, and

(14:27):
it's easy to beat up on the Bengals for a
lot of different things. And I'm the first to admit
that when this whole thing started, I thought the Bengals
position was kind of stupid. But this is what they
this is what they want to do, this is the
direction they're going to go in. I don't understand. I
don't understand the perspective of, well, he should hold his
ground for what good? For what purpose, especially given the

(14:49):
fact that the Bengals are not the only team doing this.
So you just may want, you know, there to be
this to fill our time with over the next six weeks,
and you just may be a huge fan of contract holdouts.
I think this is right now at least pretty obvious

(15:10):
that the best way that this gets resolved, the quickest
way this gets resolved, is by Shamar Stewart throwing his
hands up and going, Okay, I've got to become the
first first round draft choice of the Cincinnati Bengals to
sign a contract that voids guaranteed money. He has one
card left, and the card is Trey Hendrickson not showing

(15:33):
up the moment Trey Hendrickson shows up. I mean, Shamar
Stewart's leveragees what the moment Trey hendrick I if Trey
shows up tomorrow, and I haven't seen anything indicating concretely
that he will or that he won't. But if Trey
Hendrickson shows up tomorrow, if he practices, even if he

(15:55):
doesn't hold in like Jamar Chase last year where he
avoids getting fined but he's not really doing anything. I
at that point, I'm not sure what Shamar Stewart's leverage is.
It's one thing, if they traded Trey Hendrickson, they haven't,
They're not gonna. Mike Brown himself said that today. It's

(16:16):
something else. If Trey makes it known I Am just
not showing up, and if I'm, you know, miss and
forego the money that's coming my way starting week one,
then so be it. Well, then that increases the need
for the Bengals to get Shamar Stewart here asap. So
the one card that Chamar has left is Trey Hendrickson.

(16:38):
And who knows when the Trey Hendrickson thing will have
a resolution, a long term resolution, and what that will
look like. But that's that's the card that he's got left.
So it certainly did not. You know, I started last
week to talk about how Schamar's unwillingness to sign suggest

(17:00):
to me that he might not necessarily have the burning
desire to play in Cincinnati that many of us wish,
and that he should go ahead and if he wants
to disprove that narrative, go ahead and sign the deal,
show up, get his career started, start cashing checks, start
sacking quarterbacks, and start proving that he was worth taking
with the seventeenth overall pick. Start proving that his productivity

(17:24):
in college or lack thereof, is not necessarily emblematic of
the kind of player he is at the next level.
If if you disagree with that, that's fine, But then
what Because I think the Bengals made it known today
like this is where we are, this is what we're doing,

(17:44):
this is what we want to do, this is how
our contracts, this is how we're evolving with them, and
so Schmar could take it or leave. It might not
be the best and most player friendly negotiating tactic, but
I don't think it's changing. And so the only thing
that I think right now realistically does change is Shamar
Stewart's stance. More on that here in just a bit.

(18:07):
Des Ritter has signed to be the the Bengals third quarterback.
Logan Woodside was cut loose. I'm a big UC football fan,
so obviously I'm a big Des Ridder fan. The most
accomplished quarterback in the history of UC football and so awesome.
Now he is signing to be the third string quarterback.

(18:31):
So if des Ridder were to have to play snaps
that matter, that's not good. Number One, the drop off
from Joe Burrow to anybody is pretty significant. If we
get to a point where des Ridder is playing, that's
the emergency option. As emergency options go, I think you
could do a lot worse. You know, I as big

(18:55):
of a Des Ridder fan as I am. I'm not
the only person to say this, but the run up
to the twenty twenty two draft, and it's hard to
believe it's been almost three and a half years, but
in the run up to the twenty twenty two draft,
when some were wondering, is Dez going to go in
Round one or is he at least going to be
the first quarterback taken, my take was that as much
as I love him, I never watched him in college

(19:18):
and thought starting caliber quarterback in the NFL, but he
got an opportunity. It really didn't work out whatever. I
posted about this on social media yesterday, and because on
social media you can find people that are mad at everything,
there were some folks not happy about this. I'm purely
happy about this because I liked des Ritter. I want

(19:38):
him to have a career in the NFL. He's, for
my money, was never going to be a consistent starting quarterback.
So the next best thing is just find a job
in the NFL and you know, prove that you have
some value to a team, and maybe he ultimately finds
his way onto an active roster somewhere, and then maybe

(19:58):
he gets a chance somewhere down the road and takes
advantage of it. I'm just I'm happy the guy has
a chance to stay in the league. And if I'm
rooting for that, why not have it happened on the
team that I care about most, especially one that could
not be more settled at quarterback. Like the good news
is Bengals quarterback room is awesome. Joe Burrow is terrific,

(20:19):
arguably the best quarterback in the league, and Jake Browning
is a proven established backup, so okay, they added a
third guy to the mix that doesn't have to come
at the expense of a player at another position. I'm
guessing it hasn't, so I'm stoked for Dez. He gets
a chance to continue in the NFL and whatever opportunities
he gets to play in the preseason, I hope he

(20:41):
makes the most of With any backup quarterback. If the
drop off is Joe Burrow to that guy, this team's
championship hopes get extinguished. Des Ritter will not be the
key to the Bengals winning a championship. So if it's
the third string quarterback is a guy that I do
not care about, or a guy who I care about
a lot because I watched him in college, I'll take

(21:02):
the ladder instead of the former. Best of luck to
Logan Woodside. Three thirty Reds win two out of three
over the weekend. Yesterday's game was maddening. First time all
season long, I have wanted to send a tweet out
about the homeplate umpiring I did not because I'm not
that guy, But I tell you who was this weekend
On a different level. Next deadlines are service at Kelsey

(21:24):
chev Reli home of Lifetime I we're training protection and
guarantee credit approval from their family to yours for life
at kelseyshev dot com Bengals training camp on Wednesday. By
the way, don't forget we're broadcasting live the Tonymo training
Camp show starting at ten am on Wednesday. Will be
there Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of this week, and the

(21:47):
the noon to six schedule will be unaltered and so
we're basically adding two hours. But wanted to do this
for years broadcast from Bengals training camp. We're going to
do that starting on Wednesday at ten am, right when
the team takes the field for the first time this
training camp. Meanwhile, today Mike Brown spoke, so did Duke Tobin.
Duke Tobin says he expects Trey Hendrickson to be there

(22:08):
on Wednesday. Mike Brown says we're not trading him. Dax
Hill and bj Hill have been cleared to go Wednesday
at ten am. Is the first practice. First preseason game
against Philly will be on Thursday, August the seventh, right
here on ESPN fifteen thirty. Meanwhile, Reds are in Washington tonight,
first of three against the Nationals six point forty five

(22:29):
is tonight's first pitch on seven hundred WLW, Brady Singer
will pitch against right handed pitcher Jake Irvin. Your starting
lineup tonight, are you ready? Friedol's in center, McLean's at second,
Elie de la Cruz has at shortstop, Austin Hayes is
in left field, Gavin Lux's dhing Spencer Steers at first base.
Noelfe Marte is playing third base and batting seventh, Jake

(22:51):
Freley in right field. Jose Travino is catching and batting ninth.
The Reds over the weekend won two out of three.
The most encouraging thing about this weekend was Matt McClain
got on base six times, looked awful in his first
two played appearances on Friday, then hit a home run
and continued from there. So this has been a theme,

(23:13):
at least on this show since just before the first
half ended. The Reds production from the two hole has
been among the league's worst. The guy who most often
hit second for the Reds is Matt McClain. Matt McClain
needs to be better for the Reds to have better
two hole production. If the Reds don't get better two
hole production then they got in the first ninety seven

(23:35):
games of the season. This offensive ceiling is very, very limited,
So that, to me was the story of the weekend.
We could get into the ins and outs of the
ball game. Yesterday, Red's got the benefit of a good
non call or I guess a good call that went
their way in a one Soto check swing on Saturday.
The umpiring on Soto's at bat yesterday that led to

(24:00):
him getting on base and the Mets taking the lead
was some of the worst that I have seen, But
I don't complain about umpiring and officiating. Andrew Abbott deserved
better yesterday. Nicko Lodolo had another good start on Saturday.
Maybe the story of the weekend, though, was I guess
these two things are related. They've tried Noel ve Marte

(24:20):
in right field played six innings yesterday. Will Benson did
not get into a game. Will Benson is not in
the starting lineup tonight. Will Benson is a guy that
I root for. I think Will Benson is a guy
that a lot of us root for. It feels like

(24:43):
they are making it abundantly clear now maybe there's some
sort of health issue. I guess that possibility does exist.
I don't know that Terry Francona has met with reporters
yet in Washington. If so, perhaps there's some light being
shed on why Will Benson wasn't used this weekend. Will
Benson wasn't used. You know, let's be honest, we're not

(25:06):
exactly talking about an All Star caliber bat. But the
Reds Corner outfield production has been what it has been
all season long. Right now they are more content trying
one armed Jake Frayley out there or converting Noelve Marte
on the fly from a third baseman to a right fielder.
And maybe there's a lot of validity as to why

(25:28):
this could work because of his arm, because he wants
to play the outfield, his you know, routes he takes
the ball. Maybe Noelve Marte is going to be a
terrific defensive outfielder. But in the course of doing so,
you know, I've heard the explanations, Well, it gives us
a chance to get Santiago Espanol in the lineup more,
which is not something I ever really thought anybody would

(25:50):
actually say, But here we are. They think so highly
right now of Will Benson that they're putting a third
baseman out there, or when they don't do that, they're
going to be using a guy who's gonna have surgery
on his non throwing arm at the end of the year.
What does this mean for Will Benson's future with the team?
Are they going to include him in a trade? I

(26:11):
do not know, but it feels to me like they're
kind of telling you how they feel about him. I
think there were many of us who came away from
the weekend scratching our heads wondering what did Will Benson
do to? Terry Francona didn't play it all this weekend
in New York and is a not in the starting
lineup tonight. Meanwhile, the trade deadline is getting closer and closer.

(26:37):
I read Jim Bowden in the Athletic dot Com who
writes this quote, the Reds have been clear to opposing
gms that they want to add an outfield bed and
boost their bullpen. Farm system is loaded with infield and
pitching prospects, and they're as well positioned as any contending
teams to fill both those needs. He continues, with Terry

(26:58):
Francona at the Helm, the Reds are real contenders for
a wild card birth and with the aggressive Nick Krawl
calling the shots in the front office, expect them to
make a move or two between now and July thirty first.
So there's two things about that last passage that stand out.
One is the word aggressive. The other is the part
here where it says between now and July thirty first.

(27:20):
The deadline is ten days away, six pm on the
thirty first. The Reds have nine games between now and then.
You don't have to wait until July thirty first to
make a deal. And so could there be something out
there that the Reds get well in advance of trade

(27:40):
deadline day? We will see. I guess what I want
to know is this, and I don't think we're ever
going to get the answer to this. How many truly
untouchable prospects do the Reds have? Now? I can go
on the internet and find people making the argument that
any number of prospects or young big league players should

(28:01):
be untouchable. And there's good arguments that can be made about,
you know, Alfredo Dunio for a franchise that really doesn't
have a lot of catching options in the minor leagues,
that's not a guy that you want to trade away.
Edwin Arroyo. You know, if you're still holding out hope,
you know that Elie Dela Cruz is going to move
to the outfield one day, Well, he can be a
natural option at shortstop. Sal Stewart. Sal Stewart looks like

(28:24):
a guy that's going to be able to help the
big league club next year. And so with him being
this close to the big leagues, is that somebody you
want to trade away? The answers are no. I guess
I would wonder Number one, how many truly untouchable players
in the farm system do the Reds have. The number
may be high, it might not be very high at all.
Number two, while we go back and forth on what

(28:47):
the Reds may or may not do with the deadline,
or what they should or shouldn't do it the deadline,
or what they should and shouldn't be willing to part with,
I would imagine that the teams around them, including the
one they played this weekend, the New York Mets, the
San Diego Padres, these suddenly free falling San Francisco Giants,

(29:10):
all teams that the Reds are in competition with for
that last wildcard spot. What what do those teams do
to get better? What do the Padres and the Giants.
The Cardinals got swept over the weekend, their second half
is off to a rough start. There's still just a
game behind Cincinnati. Juhanosuirez was listed by ESPN dot com

(29:34):
today is the player most likely to be traded. Arizona
got out of the gates really strong over the weekend
and swept the Saint Louis Cardinals, and now Arizona, which
we have talked about maybe being a buyer, is just
two games behind Cincinnati. Now from their perspective, there's lots
of teams to leapfrog. But those teams that the Reds

(29:54):
are either chasing, we're trying to leap frog, we're trying
to stave off. How do those teams make improvements? Like,
it's not just about what do the Reds by Do
they stand pat do they add but add without being
really aggressive? Do they pick and choose and go We'll

(30:16):
make one move, but we're not going to make multiple ones,
so we're not going to address every deficiency. What do
the teams they're chasing do to get better at the
deadline this year? And you know, by the way, for
what it's worth it, Milwaukee has not only separated itself
from the pack. The Brewers right now are tied with

(30:36):
the Chicago Cubs in first place in the division and
so and by the way, as much as we talk
about how dominant the Dodgers have been, the Brewers have
now swept him twice within the last two weeks. In
Chicago and Milwaukee are tied for the best record in
the sport. The Reds are probably not running down either
of those teams, which means one of those wildcar spots,

(31:00):
you can pretty much disregard what do the other teams
do to get better? And truly how many real untouchable
players are in this system right now, how many untouchable
players are at the major league level right now? By
the way, there is I guess a shred of good
news as it relates to a Hunter Green that they

(31:21):
expect him to pitch a rehab game at the Arizona
Complex League this week and then if that goes well, uh,
they'll send him to Louisville to begin a rehab assignment
and if that goes well, maybe we'll actually see him
in a big league mount at some point this season.
We will see. But the good news was this weekend
Matt McLean got on base a bunch, and that is

(31:42):
something we talked about a lot last week. Uh five
point three fifteen thirty is our phone number? Eight sixty
six seven oh two three seven seven six works as well.
Questions to ask about the Bengals and their pass rush
at fourho on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station seven

(32:04):
away from four. Nobody got traded yet, I think so
not do would matter to us? I'm wrong about that.
It's like a phone call or two, Drew, we got
a guy. We have somebody online. Three I don't see
who their name is. Mike, You're on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
Go ahead, thank you, mall help me do the weekend.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Weekend was delightful. Can you take me off speaker phone please? Yeah,
I'm sorry much appreciate.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Idiot Cometime. What a refreshing weekend up a h versus
the Metropolitis. I really enjoyed it. It was a lot
of fun and gave us all a lot of hope.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
Three good games, three good games. They played long ball
on Friday, got a solid start from Nick Ladolo, Emilio
Pegan walked to tightrope in the ninth inning, and then
retires three A listers to end the game. Yesterday's game
was frustrating, but I'll take two out of three in
New York anytime.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Okay, does le marte possible move to right field indicate
to you they're going to do zero?

Speaker 1 (33:10):
No, not necessarily, I would I would like to think
that the best trade deadline acquisition isn't acquiring outfield or
Noel a Marte. It tells It tells me that. It
tells me they're just trying to find something that works
in right field right now. They've got one guy who's
gonna have to have surgery at the end of the season.

(33:30):
For whatever reason, it feels like they don't trust Will Benson,
and maybe they're gonna go find the third baseman. Maybe
this is a temporary band aid in right field. Maybe
they feel like the rest of the team is good
enough that they can experiment with some stuff on the fly.
But I would really like to think that doing what
they've done with Noel a Marte isn't a sign that
they think their team is is good enough to leave

(33:53):
alone without a trade.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
Okay, general question regarding since professional sports other than FC Cincinnati,
do we will we ever get away from this last
minute nonsense with the Bengals in the Red It's just
it's I think it's driving the fandom and Cincinnati crazy.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
What do you mean last minute nonsense?

Speaker 3 (34:21):
Well, we have going down to the wire, you know what.
In other words, trying to get the Henderson thing done
instead of you know, working into the training camp thing.
Horna Stewart saying try it with the Reds having to
work it, like you've said many times, you don't have
to wait till the deadline.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Well, I think the general branding of both franchises is
that they're they're passive, they're not aggressive franchises. And you know,
so you can go, well, look, the trade thing is
still going to get done. That's fine, But you're right,
wouldn't have been cool had it gotten done back in April.
And you can say, well, the Reds are going to
get something done at the deadline, and maybe they do.
My guess is they do something. But yeah, what if

(35:01):
they would have been a little bit more aggressive during
the offseason and making their team better offensively? Would they
would they be better positioned to make the postseason today
than they actually are right now. I think it's a
fair criticism.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
I mean just a little bit more stability in a way.
And the thing is, now it's become predictable with our
two professional franchises, that this is how it's going to
go year in and year out.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah, I think there's Mike, and I'm up against the
top of the hour, so I'm gonna run. But it's
good to hear from you. As always, I hit the
button too early, Mike. I'm sorry. I did not mean
to cut you off. These are two franchises that have
individually reputations for being passive. Maybe those reputations aren't entirely deserved.

(35:56):
But when you go up until right before training camp
with your first round draft choice not signed and your
best defensive player from last year is still in a
contract stalemate, not exactly gonna change people's minds that you're
not an aggressive franchise. And the same will hold true

(36:17):
for the Reds until we see them do something really aggressive.
It's coming up on four o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty. Bills,
he said, what's up? What's up? I said, Bills, He said,
this is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thanks for listening, friend A minute.
Jones on baseball in just about forty five minutes more

(36:40):
on the Reds here in just a bit, what do
we have? We have a phone call or two to
get to here in a few minutes. You'll hear Duke
Tobin as well. We played some Mike Brown audio earlier
as it relates to Trey Hendrickson and Shamar Stewart Bengals
training camp getting underway with the practice on Wednesday morning. Uh,

(37:03):
let's talk to somebody before I babble on about all that.
Uh Ian, You're on ESPN fifteen thirty and good afternoon.
How are you, hey?

Speaker 4 (37:13):
Brother? I'm doing good.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (37:15):
I got this scenario in my head.

Speaker 5 (37:17):
Yeah, And I need your professional opinion because on one hand,
I'm like thinking that that the Reds all they're gonna
do is try to pick up thumb reliever.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
That we don't expect, and that's gonna be about it.

Speaker 6 (37:36):
On the other hand, I'm thinking, ah, I don't want
them to, but could they try to like package Rett
Louder and like somebody else and do that whole thing
where they try to target some big teams dying speed.
That seems like.

Speaker 4 (37:55):
Nick Carl's strategy, you know, I mean, like or could
they just Here's where I'm asking your opinion, you would know, could.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
They just.

Speaker 4 (38:06):
Pay out money outright?

Speaker 6 (38:09):
Do they have money to get like.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Suarez back or is that like.

Speaker 4 (38:16):
They say they don't have that money or they wouldn't
even entertain.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
That idea anyway, are you Hanio Suarez? Yeah, well they'd
have he's they'd have to trade for him. He's with
the Arizona Diamondbacks. Okay, so they could they got they
could trade for him and then decide to sign him
beyond this season. He's going to be a free agent
at the end of this year. But I mean in
order for him to play for the Reds this season,

(38:41):
they would have to execute a trade with Arizona.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
Well, I guess.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
Basically, do you think, like Sarrio, with Louder is like
on or off the table? Or any opinion on that?

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Well, I guess if if if your crawl and I'm
an executive for another team and you offer me rhtt Louder,
I need to know more about him medically, guy hasn't
pitched in the game this season, so I mean I
would wonder. Well, I think we all agree that Rhet

(39:17):
Louder when healthy has a ton of upside, and we
saw some of it that him tap into it last year.
I need to know more about where he is physically.
I need to have a better idea of when he's
actually going to be able to help my team. And
so while I certainly think that there are teams that
would be interested in him, I think you would probably

(39:37):
have to add something else to the mix just because
he hasn't pitched this year.

Speaker 4 (39:42):
Yeah, that's why I was kind of thinking the whole
like packaging him. And you know, I just don't really
want to get rid of talent.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
I wish this.

Speaker 6 (39:51):
Team would just like off up something to get it
over the line with a little more boost for another bat,
you know, yeah, to over that gap of when Matt
McClain is going through these lolls.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
You know, right right now, if you're if you're gonna
tell people we want to play Noelve Martin right field
so we can give Santiago espinall more at bats. That
that's I mean, that's a corner endfield spot where you're
gonna put a guy there who is a below average hitter.
So you're you're acknowledging we need offensive help. So Euhaneo

(40:26):
Suarez plays third base. So the very first place your
mind should go to is, Well, wait a minute, you
could put Santiago Espanol there for a game or two,
but are you just buying time for a better third
base option? Is at Auhaneo Suarez? And then what's it
going to cost? And if I'm the Arizona Diamondbacks, I'm

(40:47):
holding out for a lot number one. There's nothing that
says I have to sell now. My understanding is their
best prospect is the third baseman and Euaneo Suarez is
kind of blocking him. But if I'm the Diamondbacks, like
as things set right now, there are two games behind
the Rats. You know, they just they just swept the
Arizona the St. Louis Cardinals this weekend to come out

(41:09):
of the break and get back to five hundred. So
who's to say that if they don't win like seven
of their next eight games, that they go screw it.
We're gonna try to win while we have a eu
Haeneo Suarez. So you start with that. Then if they
make them available, there's gonna be a lot of teams
that would love a corner infield guy who's already got
more than thirty home runs. That's gonna cost a lot.
You know, you say you don't want to give up talent,

(41:30):
but in order to pry a Euhanio Suarez, well, you're
probably gonna have to give up something of value, and
that is probably not just gonna include a guy who
hasn't pitched this season.

Speaker 6 (41:41):
So really that cars would just have to fall just
right in this video in a car game scenario. It's
not gonna be Suarez. It's gonna be somebody who don't
expect the mid level talent.

Speaker 4 (41:53):
You know, I don't know, man, Well, I really liked
what I saw this weekend.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Sure, yeah, so did I. Unfortunately, you know, all you
could do, Ian, thank you for the phone call. All
you could do is defer to what their track record is.
And I've been told that this is not a fair
way of looking at it. I would disagree with that
because this is how I look at it. The Reds
have been in the thick of things twice since Nick

(42:22):
Krawl became the primary baseball decision maker twenty twenty one
in twenty twenty three. In both years they made acquisitions.
In neither year did they make an acquisition that really
moved the meter, that really pointed toward aggressiveness, that really
addressed their most glaring needs. In twenty twenty one, they

(42:43):
acquired a couple of relievers. Chances are you have no
idea who they are, because they really didn't matter all
that much. Two years ago. They were in first place
at the deadline, leading the division. You didn't have to
squint and convince yourself that they're in the hunt, and
yet they let their biggest win and his go unaddressed. Now,
at the time, you could certainly find a lot of

(43:04):
people willing to carry the water for the Reds who
would tell you this is a good thing. I've made
fun of the reporting that came out of Chicago, which
is where the Reds were at the deadline two years ago,
that was, well, the clubhouse is really happy and they're
really excited. The Reds didn't do anything. It's like, okay, fine, whatever,
if you want me to believe that, whatever, and if
they are happy, then that's their problem. But they didn't

(43:27):
do anything.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
And so.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
Twice now in recent history there have been occasions where
the Reds were in it and what they did didn't
make a huge splash and didn't make a huge difference.
They acquired Sam Mall at the deadline two years ago.
Sam Mall at the end of the twenty twenty three
season those last two months was terrific for the Reds.

(43:51):
He was terrific. He was a good pickup, but he
didn't address their biggest need. And so I think one
of the reasons why there's a degree of apprehension as
we get closer to the deadline. One of the reasons is, yeah,
we think the Reds are going to be shopping. We
hear and read the reporting that says the Reds are
asking teams about outfielders and bullpen arms. We know they

(44:12):
have a decent farm system, and decent is probably putting
it mildly. They've got a decent farm system. They've got
a surplus of prospects they can deal from, and so
the assumption is they'll add something. But based on the
track record, the assumption, or one of the other assumptions,
is they're not going to add all that much. And

(44:32):
so let's just say for a second that it's all
about a Eugenio Suarez, who is due to be a
free agent at the end of the season, is having
an all Star caliber year. He's got thirty five home runs.
We know what he is, right, we know we know
what he is. We know what he is. That's good.
We know what he is that's bad. We know how

(44:53):
popular of a guy he is. Like, if there's a
team in baseball that knows a lot about a Euhaneo Suarez,
it's the Reds. And by the way, Haineo Suarez came
out of the gate this weekend and hit four home runs,
two on Saturday, two on Sunday, only enhancing his value
and maybe only enhancing his value to his own team, which,
by the way, again is five hundred but not that

(45:16):
far away from a wildcard spot, two games further away
than the Reds are right now. But let's just say that,
if you're a Nick Crawl, you go, Okay, we're taking
our third baseman, Noelve Marte, and we're giving him a
crack at right field. Now worth mentioning neelve Marte is
playing third base today, and if Noelve Marte is playing
right field, then Santiago Espinal is going to be playing

(45:40):
third base. Is a playoff team giving four at bats
a night to Santiago Espinal at third base? Probably not.
So we want to get better. We want a better option.
That better option is a guy who was an All
Star this year, has thirty five home runs, leads the
National League in RBIs, leads all the baseball actually RBIs,

(46:00):
and leads the National League in home runs. That's who
we want. That's gonna cost a lot, even under an
expiring contract. And so you may want the Reds to
go get au Haano Suarez, who among us would be
opposed to adding au Haaneo Suarez? The question is will
the Reds jump to the front of the line to
get him? You might go, well, wait a minute, there's

(46:25):
other options out there, and there are You might go, well,
you know, I'd rather spend it on a bullpen arm,
spend the one bullet I have on a bullpen arm.
And there's some validity to that. But if you want
them to go get the current National league leader in
home runs, chances are that's gonna cost more than just
a guy. It's gonna cost more than just a guy

(46:45):
who's not pitched so far this year. And then you
ask yourself, do I trust the Reds If you are
hell bent on au Haanio Suarez being the guy. The
Arizona Diamondbacks record be damned. The other teams that would
want the current National league leader in home runs the
hell with that. I want eu Haaneo Suarez. Knowing what

(47:07):
you know about how the Reds have behaved at the
deadline in recent years, do you trust them to go
get him? And do you trust them to part with
what they would have to give up to go get him?
And you might go, well, I want Euanio Suarez, but
I don't want to overpay. Chances are to get a
guy like Euania Suarez, you might have to at least

(47:29):
slightly overpay. And again the I read a piece on
air two years ago the kind of pointed how trade
deadline deals often don't involve an absolute monster hall of
prospects back in return, you're getting a two month rental
if you trade for Souarez. Are you gonna have to

(47:51):
give up that much? Maybe not, but you're still gonna
have to give up something of value. You're gonna have
to perhaps show a level of aggressive that you do
not typically associate with this franchise. So I think any
apprehension is about their track record. Again, two years ago,
they had a gaping hole in the starting rotation. It

(48:11):
was like all five pitchers. You could have made a
case they needed to replace all five of them. They
didn't go get one until they do something that runs
counter to that. I think there's always going to be
some fear that they're not going to go to the
end of the earth to make the team better, and
maybe you don't want them to. But then there's two

(48:32):
things about that. One with do the Padres and the
Giants and the Mets and the Cardinals and maybe the
Diamondbacks do Number Two, if you're let's just say they
get a game closer to the playoffs between now in
July thirty. First, if you're a game and a half
out of the playoffs with a Uhanio Suarez, an All Star,

(48:53):
Andrew Abbott and Nick Lodolo having a good season and
you're not willing to go for it, now, when will you?

Speaker 3 (49:02):
Like?

Speaker 1 (49:02):
I think that dynamic is kind of in play here.
And you know, all season long, the Reds have been
walking a tightrope and oftentimes this year it's felt like
the season is a game or two away from getting
away from them. We've wondered buyers or sellers now for weeks.
They come out of the break and they win their
first two out of three, maybe they fall flat in
their face against a bad Nationals team. This week. Maybe

(49:24):
they get beaten up by the Raids this weekend, maybe
the Dodgers truck them, and maybe this is a moot
point by July thirty first, But if you're at arms
lengths away from a postseason spot and you don't try
to make your team significantly better now, after making your

(49:47):
fans wait for three decades, after launching into a rebuild
five years ago, where the payoff was supposed to come
right about now, If you're not willing, if you're not
willing to make the move to put your team over
the top, now, when will you be? If two years ago,
when you were in first place, you weren't willing to
make the move you needed to put your team over

(50:07):
the top, then when will you be? We were asking
that question then, in many respects, we're asking it now.
Eighteen after four o'clock. I have questions for Mike Brown
and Duke Tobin. You'll hear from Duke Tobin next life writer.
I'll do that twenty three after four. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty Brenneman and Jones on Baseball just about twenty

(50:29):
five minutes away. Don't forget tomorrow on the show. Paul
Danner Junior joins us in studio on a whole host
of Bengals related issues we played for you earlier. Mike
Brown here is Duke Tobin earlier today, asked about the
Shamar Stewart situation.

Speaker 7 (50:46):
There's not much to negotiate. You got to look really
hard to find something to get mad about. And sometimes
that's what we've got caught up in, is somebody trying
to prove their words by getting mad about something that
doesn't matter. The rookie contracts that I'm playing out very tefficult.
They're pretty slotted, and so it's a little unusual.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
And this is where it is.

Speaker 7 (51:14):
I can't say I understand it. I can't say I've
blamed Shamar for it, because Schamar is just listening to
the advice. He's paid for it, and I don't understand it.
But I'm not the one paying for that advice.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Duke Tobin, I don't understand it, but I'm not the
one paying for that advice. I'll tell you what if
if I'm Miles Murphy, I'm looking at all of this going,
you know what, I'm gonna make people forget about Shamar Stewart.

(51:52):
I'm gonna make people forget about Trey Hendrickson. Now, Trey
Hendrickson has to play for the Bengals this year if
you wants to play pro football because he's under contract.
And Shamar Stewart, I'm still guessing we'll play for the
Bengals at some point this year. So he's not gonna
make anybody forget them. But you know, just think of
how we would be processing this entire thing if Miles

(52:14):
Murphy was a proven NFL player by now, not even
you know, playing to the level of first round pick.
But the dude had as many sacks as me last year.
And so, like Austin was talking about this before, and
I agree with him wholeheartedly, Like, here is an opportunity,

(52:36):
in whatever way, shape or form it's given to you
during training camp in the preseason to make a statement. Hey,
you know what, don't need Shamar Stewart. I'll help us
upgrade the pass rush. And you know what, whatever is
going on with Trey Hendrickson, I'm one of the reasons

(52:57):
why they don't have to give him the kind of
money he's looking for a long term Like, this is
an opportunity in the coming weeks for Miles Murphy. And
I know there's only so much that outsiders can glean
from practice and even to a degree from the preseason.
But like this whole pass rush conversation, I think it
goes without saying, right, the Bengals need a better pass rush,

(53:18):
They need to get after the quarterback more, they need
better pressure up front. They could certainly use some help
getting to the quarterback and helping out the secondary creating turnovers,
all that stuff. Miles Murphy was supposed to help them
solve this. Miles Murphy was drafted two years ago, April
of twenty three, and you know the storyline leading up

(53:38):
to that was, you know, the Bengals pass rush is sneaky,
not great like Trey Hendrickson's still really good. And by
the way, we were saying that before Trey Hendrickson really
exploded in twenty twenty three. In twenty twenty four, we
were talking about the overall lack of pass rush and
that's why they took Miles Murphy and to a degree
like he's going to be the guy by the time
it's time to say goodbye to Trey Hendrickson, and by

(54:01):
the time it's maybe you know, ready to move on
from Sam Hubbard. This is an opportunity these coming weeks
for Miles Murphy even just in practice, Hey Trey's not here.
If he's not and if he is and he's holding
in like Jamar last year, he's not practicing. And if
Shamar Stewart is nowhere to be seen, hey that's cool.

(54:24):
I got us. And there are others. You know, Joseph
Osai had some really encouraging moments last year. But like
this whole conversation about the pass rush has to improve,
and how does it happen without Trey Hendrickson or without
Shamar Stewart. The answer is supposed to be Miles Murphy.
And so what you hope for is that he takes

(54:46):
advantage of the opportunity here during training camp to kind
of show people like who are going to be looking
at the the the defensive line and looking at the
pass rush. And again there's maybe only so much you
could pull from training camp practices, but I mean, this
is a huge year. And by the way, it's a
huge year for him even if Trey Hendrickson has signed
long term, and it's a huge year for him, even

(55:08):
if Shamar Stewart is under contract and reported and getting
set to play his first NFL season. This is a
big year for Miles Murphy independent of all that, but
the hole left by those two guys, the league's reigning
sack leader and him not being here and the absence
of the team's first round pick puts a spotlight on

(55:29):
a guy who has an opportunity this year. So let's
see what Miles Murphy can do. Five point three seven
four nine fifteen thirty and eight six six seven oh
two three seven seven six. My take recently has been
that the Schamar Stewart thing doesn't necessarily require everybody take

(55:53):
a side, but we are going to ask some questions
about it. Coming up in about five minutes on ESPN
fifteen thirty SINI Sports Station. The sports headlines are a
service of Kelsey Chevrolet Home of Lifetime power train protection
and guarantee credit approval from their family to yours for
life kelseyshev dot Com Duke Tobin today said he expects

(56:16):
Trey Hendrickson there on Wednesday. We'll see if that happens.
Mike Brown says we're not trading him. Bengals beginning training
camp on Wednesday, first practice at ten in the morning.
We'll be there broadcasting live. Tony and Moo training camp
show Wednesday, Thursday and Friday right here on ESPN fifteen thirty. Meanwhile,
there is some good news from this perspective. This is

(56:38):
I think you can maybe argue the biggest kind of
short term development of the U of the day. Doc
Hill has been cleared, which I'm not sure is a
major surprise, but has been cleared coming off the ACL
injury to practice starting on Wednesday. Meanwhile, Reds and Nationals
tonight in Washington, first of three. Brady Singer versus is righty,

(57:00):
Jake Irvin on the Hill six forty five tonight on
seven hundred WLW. You want it, I will give it
to you, because I'm that kind of guy. Your Red
starting lineup for this evening, get out your pencils and
scorecards or whatever you keep score with, which is probably
nothing because nobody really keeps score anymore. Friedol's and center,
McLean's and second, Li de la Cruz at shortstop, Austin

(57:21):
Haysen left, Gavin luxdh's Spencer Steers at first base, noelfe
Martes a third, Jake Freley in right field, and Jose
Travino is catching and batting. Ninth Brendanman and Jones on
baseball coming up here in just a bit. I mentioned
this briefly in passing, and I would be remiss if
I didn't go out of my way to mention it

(57:41):
time and again, because look, on this radio station, the
local programming block, if you will, is typically noon to six.
Since he three to sixty, from noon to three US
three to six, and it's all well and good.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
We are.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
I'm pretty stoked about this for two reasons. One always
thought it would be cool to broadcast from Bengals training camp.
Number Two, I think it's always cool when we could
add more local programming on this radio station. Nothing against
the ESPN Radio syndication product. So starting on Wednesday, and

(58:17):
we're gonna do this Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday of this week,
and then a couple of days in the next week,
and then a couple of days the week after that,
and then a couple of days the week after that.
It's going to add up to ten. Tony and I
are going to be broadcasting from Bengals training camp. We
call it the Tony and Mood Training Camp Show. And
so we'll be there from ten to noon starting Wednesday

(58:38):
on the air, and no major disruption to the on
air schedule since e three to sixty will still happen
between noon and three, and then I'll be here in
studio from three to six, so eight hours of local programming,
including five hours basically from Bengals training camp, and Tony

(58:58):
and I together from ten to new and maybe some
days I'll stick around even longer. I'll replay the Mike
Brown stuff coming up in the five o'clock hour if
if you haven't heard it. Both sides have dug in.
Duke Tobin has attempted to, you know, kind of drive
a wedge between Shamar Stewart and his agent. We had

(59:19):
that for you before. Here's what I think all parties
will agree on. The Bengals need a better pass rush.
As awesome as Trey Hendrickson was, and he was great
last year rushing the passer, the pass rush success rate,
the overall amount of pressures and hurries, and obviously the

(59:40):
overall number of sacks was below league average, Bengals need
a better pass rush, with Shamar Stewart specifically. Here, I've
kind of come around to the Bengals way of thinking,
and it's taken me a while. I will admit that
They're looking to evolve when it comes to their contracts,
looking to do things the way a lot of other

(01:00:02):
teams do. They're trying to evolve when it comes to
guaranteed money and how it can be avoided. And Mike
Brown talked about this at length today and if you
missed it, I'll have it at five oh five. The
question for them is when does the need to improve
the pass rush dramatically trump the desire to evolve with

(01:00:24):
your contracts. Now, I'm of the belief and I think
you would agree if you know anything about how this
franchise has been run. And I think, especially if you
listen to what came from the mouths of people in
Bengals upper management today, that it still feels like the
Bengals are digging in, that they're in this for the
long haul, that even if it costs Schamar Stewart most

(01:00:49):
of training camp, even if it costs in the ability
to help out as soon as the season begins, even
if it means that Shamar Stewart doesn't sign with it,
They're using this first round pick as the occasion to
start to evolve and to start doing what other teams
have done with the ability to avoid certain guarantees for

(01:01:14):
first round picks. Maybe it says something about Schamar Stewart
that they're doing it with him, and maybe it says
something about their overall principle where it was decided well
before the draft, no matter who we take, no matter
which position it is, no matter what red flags about
their productivity may be with our first round pick, we're

(01:01:36):
structuring the contract a certain way. When does the need
to upgrade the pass rush trump the desire to evolve
with the contract with Shamar Stewart. You know, at the
end of the day, when he gets on the field,
he's going to have to get to work, disproving those

(01:01:59):
who believe that while he has all the physical traits
in the world, he's just not that productive. By the way,
the sack total would say as much, four and a
half over three years. He's also an NFL player. All
NFL players could use practice, could use meetings, could use
the benefit of reps and and and use the time

(01:02:20):
and ability to improve their craft. When do those needs
trump the desire to hold ground? When do the When
does the need to just start your NFL career trump
the desire to hold out and not sign a contract

(01:02:44):
that has terms that you don't want to sign under,
and that might be as much of a question for
the agent as well. That's the root of it here.
What I would tell Tamar Stewart and I, you know,
not the first time I've said this on this show,
is holding your ground and deciding to engage in a

(01:03:09):
standoff with the Bengals is going to come at a
short term cost. I think right now that the dude's
reputation has been hurt a little bit, he might not
have much to catch up on, because maybe nobody believes
that the stuff they do in mini camp and during
OTAs are things that you can't make up. But if

(01:03:33):
he were to show up even on Wednesday for the
first practice, I think we would all agree there's some
catching up to do. And the longer this goes, the
more he's going to have to get caught up on,
and the more difficult it's going to be for him
to hit the ground running and be productive in year one.

(01:03:54):
Doesn't mean he can't be productive in year one. It
doesn't mean he can't have a very good rookie season
and start a long and fruitful NFL career with the Bengals.
But the more time he misses. It feels to me,
the less likely it is that he makes an impact
in the first season, the less of an impact he

(01:04:15):
makes in the first season, the less of an impact
he can make over the entirety of his contract, And
the less of an impact he makes over the entirety
of his contract, the less his earning potential could be
as it relates to a second contract. Now, we're getting
a little ahead of ourselves right now, I'll admit that.

(01:04:36):
But like, at some point, as much as you might
be coming from a very common sense place, as much
as you may not want to be the guy the
Bengals establish a new president with, as much as you
might be personally insulted that the owner of the team said,
in effect, we want to protect ourselves against a guy

(01:04:56):
being in jail. And I'm not sure that that would
go over very well with me if I were Shamar Stewart.
I'll be honest with you, At some point, doesn't the
need to start your NFL career and prove you could
be more productive than you were in college and learn
everything you can during your first NFL camp? At some point,

(01:05:19):
I just I feel like those needs trump the desire
to hold your ground and not set a precedent and
and maybe even appease your union for whatever that's worth.
But it is remarkable. It's July twenty first and we're here,
and the Bengals drafted the guy almost three months ago.
You'll hear the Mike Brown quotes here in just a

(01:05:40):
little bit five point three, seven four nine, fifteen thirty.
Your phone calls are welcome as well. Brendivan and Jones
on Baseball is just about ten minutes away on ESPN
fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station. This is ESPN fifteen thirty
Moe Eger Reds and Nationals. Tonight at six forty five,
Brady Singer will make his first start of the second
half of the season. Cincinnati winning a two out of

(01:06:00):
three over the weekend against the Mets in New York.
A very encouraging weekend from the Reds from this perspective,
Matt McClain got on base a bunch, hit the home
run on Friday. I will admit to you that after
watching his first two played appearances on Friday night, I
started to think about all the things we had said
about him across the course of the first half of
the season, where the contact wasn't very good, the bats

(01:06:23):
weren't very competitive, and then he went from there to
hit a home run, got another hit, walked in that game,
got on base six times over the weekend. We can
discuss reds, trade deadline possibilities, we can discuss what they
should or shouldn't do. We can debate how aggressive they're
going to be. We can worry that they're not going
to be aggressive enough. That doesn't mean that some of

(01:06:45):
the players who I don't want to say help them
dig this hole. Because this team is played right now.
They're on about an eighty four and a half win pace,
which exceeds what I thought they would be at the
beginning of the season. But simply put, man, Matt McLean's
got to be better than he was in the first
half of the season. And so the weekend in New

(01:07:06):
York was very encouraging from that perspective. Emilio Pagan in
the ninth inning on Saturday, and you know, let's be honest,
it felt for a few minutes like they were gonna
have an epic collapse on Friday. It felt for a
few minutes on Saturday like they were gonna have an

(01:07:27):
epic collapse in that game where the Mats against Emilio
Pagan load the bases and I'm sorry they put guys
on first and second, and then Emilio Pagan retires Francisco
Lindor on a fielder's choice. They tried to turn the

(01:07:48):
three six one double play didn't work, but anyway, fielder's choice.
He then strikes out Juan Soto, admittedly on a three
to two pitch that I didn't think Soto went around on,
but still he strikes out Wan so Oo and then
gets Pete Alonzo to flyout to end the game. Amelio
Pegan is having a better season than I think he
is being given credit for, and maybe ideally he is

(01:08:12):
not occupying the role of closer. Maybe ideally he's pitching
more in the seventh or eighth inning where he's setting up. Frankly,
ideally Alexis Diaz reclaims his closer gig and doesn't bought
him out and get traded for nothing to the LA Dodgers.
But the fact that the best laid plans didn't come

(01:08:33):
to fruition is not Emilio Pagan's fault in that role.
You know, he has been better than I think he
has a times given credit for I said this maybe
two three weeks ago. I feel like, over the course
of my entire life, I've listened to people complain about
how nervous the team's closer gives makes them because closer's

(01:08:56):
pitching close games. If they give up one base runner,
oftentimes the tying run is now on base, the winning
run is at the plate, the tying run is at
the plate. Closer most naturally is gonna pitch in a
lot of high leverage situations. High leverage situations are nerve racking,
and in high leverage situations there's not a lot of
margin for air. I certainly don't think that it is

(01:09:19):
worth ignoring if a closer gives up a lot of
base runners and still gets the three outs, because the
longer he walks the tightrope, eventually he's gonna fall off.
But simply judging by the results this year, Amelia Pegan
has been terrific and Austin Elmore and I debate this,
and we were texting each other during the game on Saturday,

(01:09:42):
Amelia Pagan's walks and hits per innings pitch ratio is
still less than one per he is still getting the
three outs. You know, the job isn't too ensure that
a Reds fan watching the game isn't nervous. The job
is to get the three outs. Usually he gets the
three outs. He did it with some difficulty on Saturday,
but doing what he did to retire the three hours

(01:10:04):
he got out is not insignificant at all. Brendanman and
Jones on Baseball's Next, What's Up? It's five oh five.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty. I'm oeggar. It's the michelob
Ultra five o'clock Happy Hour on ESPN fifteen thirty. Thanks
for listening today. Hopefully you had a great weekend and
hopefully your week is off to an awesome start. Bengals

(01:10:24):
training camp begins. First practice is on Wednesday. Players report tomorrow.
Mock Turtle Soup Day was today, Bengals Media Day. It's
like the one time a year that Mike Brown talks.
It's one of a handful of times a year that
Duke Tobin talks. We'll have some Duke for you later
on Mike Brown Talk today. And as you might imagine,
a lot of the questions were about two major issues.

(01:10:45):
One is the ongoing contract back and forth between the
Bengals and Trey Hendrickson. And there has been reporting by
Ian Rappaport today that the Bengals have a new offer
out there for Trey Hendrickson. The main question is is
Trey gonna show up? Is going to be there tomorrow?
Is he going to be there on Wednesday? If he's there,
is he practicing or is it a jamarge a style

(01:11:06):
hold in? Or he's there but he's not really doing anything.
He's there doing the bare minimum, but he can't be fine.
We will see. Here is Mike Brown talking earlier today
about Trey Hendrickson.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
We aren't going to trade Trey. We're working to get
Trey signed. As we speak here. There are guys over
in the office working to get that done. I think
it'll get done. It is the way Trey can be.
He We like Trey as a person. He's a good guy.

(01:11:43):
But when it comes to these negotiations, and we've been
through a few of them with him, he pushes hard,
he gets emotional. We never have an easy time of it.
But there's one thing that is consistent. It always gets done,

(01:12:05):
and I think this one will. But we'll see. I've
been proven wrong before, but I am pretty confident that
we'll get there.

Speaker 6 (01:12:13):
At the end.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
All right, there's a Mike Brown talking about Trey Hendrickson.
We'll see, we'll see some degree of optimism. I've heard
others express optimism that this is closer to getting done

(01:12:35):
than maybe it was just a few weeks ago. We
will see. I guess I'm to the point where I want.
What I wonder more than anything is if Trey shows up,
does he show up and do a Jamar Chase, Which,
let's be honest, the message that was sent back in
May when Trey showed up randomly to a Bengals offseason

(01:12:59):
workout and decided to grandstand, and that's what he was doing.
That's not even necessarily a criticism. That's what he was doing.
Decided a grandstand and make his case to the media
with his teammates practicing just a few feet away. The
underlying message there, in fact, I'm not even sure it
was underlying. The message there was I'm gonna be a distraction. Well,

(01:13:21):
if Trey just doesn't show up, two things happen. One,
he gets fined. Two his absence is a distraction. But
he's not one distracting while he's there, Like Jamar Chase.
We all love Jamar Chase. The Jamar Chase thing took
on a life of its own last year in a

(01:13:42):
way that I don't think takes on a life of
its own if he just holds out what did Jamar
do last year? Showed up, made sure he wasn't fined,
did the bare minimum, didn't practice. It became a thing.
It became a thing that Zach Taylor had to answer
questions about every single day. It became a thing that
his teammates had to answer questions about. It was a
thing up until the morning of the first game. And

(01:14:03):
I will never forget being at the Holy Grail doing
the pregame show with Ken Brew and Tony Pike and
we're watching TV and watching his I think it was
Channel nineteen was showing Jamar Chase out on the field
four hours before kickoff, and we're all run We're all wondering,
is he does this mean he's gonna play? He's gonna
play and be on the field, that kind of thing.
So I guess what I'm more curious than anything else

(01:14:25):
is does Trey decide to show up and do nothing?
Does Trey decide to show up so he can't be fine?
Because like if you're Trey, and this whole thing is
about money, and that's that's what this is about. This
is about money, and that's okay, But this whole thing
is about money. If what you're doing, if the stance
you're taking is about money, why are you then giving
money back by just simply not showing up? But if

(01:14:46):
he shows up, does he become a distraction? Does he
decide to call his own impromptu press conferences? Does he
make himself available for one on once? Does he come
on the Tony in Mote Training gam show? And does
he continue the same theme that was started back in
May when he showed up to practice but didn't practice

(01:15:07):
and instead made his case very publicly and very emphatically,
that in itself was a distraction. Does the distraction continue
once the practices actually begin. The word evolve has been
used a lot today. The Bengals evolving, the Bengals evolving
when it comes to their contracts, the Bengals evolving when

(01:15:29):
it comes to how they do things, and I think
in many respects they have that evolution may continue with
how they do contracts like the one they want to
do with Shamar Stuart. Here is Mike Brown talking about
the Chamar Stuart issue earlier today.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
You want to know about Stuart and our situation with him. Yes,
and it's still something that is not completed. We feel
that there's really no reason why it shouldn't be. The
issue seems to be about guaranteed money if, in the event,

(01:16:14):
he acted in a way that was contrary to league
rules or our rules. For example, if he got into
literally a criminal situation, something at that level that's never happened.
We've been here for a long time. That's never happened,

(01:16:36):
and that's what's holding up this lease or this contract.
And from our vantage point, it's a form of foolishness.
It just ought to get done. There is no dispute

(01:16:56):
over the money. It's just a dispute in his mind
that I guess if he did something that really deserved punishment,
that he would want the whole contract guaranteed, and we

(01:17:19):
would want to say, well, it isn't guaranteed if you
did something to that level. In that case, we would
step in and take away the guaranteed. Doesn't mean that
we couldn't agree to pay it, but we wouldn't be
forced to pay it. I don't want to pay somebody

(01:17:41):
who hypothetically could be in jail for four years at
this level of pay, and do I think any of
that's going to happen now? And that's why I use
the word foolishness. It's in my mind at that level.
We want to get it done. We want to get

(01:18:02):
him in here and work. He Heed's a good young guy,
and he's someone we think will be important to our
team this year.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
Now, I might hear that differently than you. I don't
hear that as we think Shamar Stewart's a bad guy
who's going to end up in jail. I hear that
as Look, we now have the ability because other teams
have done this, we're going to follow in their lead.
We're going to follow their lead, and we're going to
start signing players to deals where if something unforeseen happens,

(01:18:39):
something that doesn't happen does happen, we're not necessarily automatically
on the hook. He did acknowledge, doesn't mean they couldn't
agree to pay a guarantee. So maybe there's some wiggle
room here. We've talked about the Bengals evolving. I think
I've evolved. I think the Bengals are right here. That's

(01:19:00):
not coming from a houseboy either. That's not coming from
one of those folks that spends all of their waking
moments carrying the Bengals water. I think Mike Brown it
might not have been the most articulate way of putting things,
but I do think he did a pretty good job
of articulating their position. And I don't think it's an

(01:19:21):
unreasonable one. But even if you think it is unreasonable,
the die I think was cast even further today. Here's
our position. That didn't sound like an owner who's willing
to budge. That didn't sound like a team executive who
is starting to see things the player's way. That sounds

(01:19:42):
like a guy who's digging in. Here's our position. This
is how we feel we want to start doing things
like this. Other teams have and he didn't go as
far as saying that, but we know that that's part
of this here, right, Other teams have signed draft choices
to contracts with this structure. We want to be one

(01:20:02):
of those teams. We want to do it that way,
and so we're starting now. And it just so happens
that Shamar Stewart is the first guy we're going to
do it with. And it's not necessarily a direct reflection
on his character or how we feel about him or
any of that. I have a hard time arguing against
Mike Brown's position there. But even if you want to

(01:20:26):
argue Mike Brown's position, I think you would agree. Dudes
digging in. So let's fling it back to Shamar Stewart.
Chamar Stewart took a picture of the facility he was
working at at College Station. Duke Tobin and Shamar Stewart's
agent now are apparently going to be at odds with
each other because of some of the things that Duke
Tobin had to say. And I agree with what Mike

(01:20:46):
Florio wrote Pro football Talk dot Com. Duke Tobin, for
all of his qualifications on the football player personnel part
of things, is not the person who is deciding here's
what our contry going to be, like, here's how we're
going to structure our contracts. That's coming from well above him.
And so it's not unlike asking Zach Taylor to comment

(01:21:07):
on certain things. Zach Taylor has nothing to do with
the structure of the contract, and neither really does Duke Tobin.
So he's kind of speaking out of pocket here, But
he is man available. It's inevitable he's going to get
the questions. And so you know, Duke Tobin today said,
I don't necessarily blame Chamar. I blame the advice he's getting,
pointing the finger directly at the agent, perhaps in an

(01:21:29):
effort to split up Shamar Stewart from his agent. We
will see certainly trying to drive a wedge between the two.
But here's what the Bengals position is. And we've known
this all along. Today was confirmation of their position. And
when there's confirmation of a team's position, I think you're
being logical if you go, you know what, They're not

(01:21:50):
likely to move from this position at any point. So
it comes back to Shamar Stewart. Chamar, you've lost, and
standing and holding your ground on some level might be noble,
on some level, could earn you respect from other players,

(01:22:12):
other draft choices, the people in charge of the NFL
Players Association, which is a total mess right now. But
it's not helping you. It's not helping you as you
start your NFL career. It's not helping you get up
to speed with your new team. It's not helping you
forge real, meaningful relationships as they relate to football with

(01:22:36):
your soon to be new teammates, and I say soon
to be still assuming that at some point Shamar is
going to show up, the current position you're taking does
not help you Week one against the Cleveland Browns. It
doesn't help. Like Charlie Goldsmith wrote this today about how
like at the end of the day, we've talked so
much about Shamar Stewart and his contract and the back

(01:22:58):
and forth with him and the Bengals and some of
the things that have come from Schamar's camp, what we're
not talking about is the main question that hovered over
him right after the draft, which was can the dude play?
This isn't helping you prove people wrong that don't think
you can. Like it's a stare down, and these two
sides have stared at each other, and the Bengals today

(01:23:20):
basically told you we're not gonna stop. You may think
that is unreasonable, and you may think that it proves
that the Bengals only care about winning negotiations, and you
may think it proves the short sightedness of team ownership.
You may believe those things, but what is very unlikely
is based on what has been said and based on

(01:23:41):
their track record that they're backing down. Chamar, it's up
to you to back down. And if you want to
frame it this way, Shamar be the bigger party than
Shamar be the bigger party, or be the bigger person.
And by the way, if you heard in Mike Brown's voice,
in his tone and what he said, if you heard

(01:24:02):
optimism as it relates to Trey Hendrickson, if they find
a resolution with Trey Hendrickson, whether it's a simple pay
raise and no more years on his current deal, or
it's a pay raise and many more years on his
current deal that make him one of the highest paid
edge rushers in the sport. If there's a resolution to
Trey Hendrickson, then Shamar Stewart has even less leverage than

(01:24:25):
he already has, and he right now doesn't have a
ton like if Trey Hendrickson decides screw it, I'm coming
on Wednesday and I'm practicing, then whatever air is left
in Shamar Stewart's balloon is blown out comes out of it.
So I get a lot of pushback when I say.

Speaker 3 (01:24:43):
This, but I just.

Speaker 1 (01:24:46):
If you're if you're a Shamar Stewart, I think you
have to really ask yourself at this stage, is this
worth it? If the Bengals concern is as articulated by
Mike Brown, you know what we want to ensure ourselves
against a player getting arrested, player getting into a violent
situation with a woman. Okay, well, don't get arrested, don't

(01:25:09):
get into a violent situation with a woman, do all
the stuff that falls within team rules, be a normal
human being, collect your guaranteed money, and start proving that
you were deserving of being taken with the seventeenth overall pick.
I just I've gotten to a place and I haven't
been there for much of the offseason. Maybe it was

(01:25:30):
just hearing Mike Brown articulate it. I've gotten to a
place where I feel like the Bengals position is pretty reasonable.
And that's again, that's not coming from, you know, one
of these folks that just spends every waking moment carrying
the Bengals water. It's coming from someone who's often been
pretty critical. This position, which is becoming more and more

(01:25:50):
commonplace around the NFL, makes sense. What doesn't make any
sense is standing your ground and deciding to get your
NFL career off to a hockey start for the sake
of ultimately still down the road losing because I think
most of us, right or wrong, expect the Bengals to
not back down. And so if we're still doing this

(01:26:13):
in a month, Schamar Stewart's the party that loses. If
we're still doing this in two months, Shamar Stewart is
the party that loses. Twenty one minutes after five o'clock
five one, three, seven, four nine, fifteen thirty is our number?
Eight sixty six seven oh two three seven seven six
works as well? Did the Reds tip their hand this
weekend that next ESPN fifteen thirty you may have or

(01:26:35):
may miss on this show, you can still listen to him.
You know, it's it's not nineteen eighty nine where it's
like most set it. No, it's off into the ether. No.
We record everything and we put it on the internet,
specifically the iHeartRadio app, which, by the way, when you
go there, you should preset us our show. My name
is Maegger and ESPN fifteen thirty you should also preset

(01:26:55):
uh since e three sixty. Anyway, anything you may have missed,
go get on the app. We had two really good
soccer guests last week, if ce Cincinnati with a thrilling
victory late on Saturday against Real Salt Lake, including Max Brettos,
who called the match, or as I should say, who
called the match. He was with us last week. We

(01:27:16):
did a really good hour with our friend Kelsey Conway
of The Inquirer on the Bengals. If you missed that
and anything else, go get it on the iHeartRadio app.
Podcasts of this show are a service of Long Neck
Sports Grill. There is no better place you know you're
thinking ahead right. Obviously we talked about Red's Baseball in
the summer, and it's an awesome place to watch Reds games.
But if you are like so many of us and

(01:27:38):
you're doing stuff like planning your fantasy football draft, have
it at Long Next. You got Wilder, you got Hebrew,
you got Richwood, three locations outdoor patio at each, awesome wings,
great beer selection, and so much more. Long Next Sports Grill. Boy.
It would have been awesome had the Reds been able

(01:27:59):
to finish off this yesterday, and obviously that didn't happen.
Although I thought there were times where Andrew Abbott yesterday
was really really sharp. I'm I don't want to complain
about homeplate umpiring because I just I don't love it

(01:28:19):
when fans complain about officiating and umpiring. But I'm struggling
because it was so bad yesterday. I thought, to me,
the big takeaway from the weekend was the Reds are
kind of telling you what they really want to do
with the deadline. So Will Benson hasn't played this, didn't

(01:28:40):
play in New York. He's not in the starting lineup tonight.
The Reds have corner outfield, specifically right field productivity issues.
They've had corner infield issues from an offensive perspective in
the mix and right field. Will Benson and Jake Freeley
are really sort of the same type of guy. And
I like Will Benson like he's to me one of

(01:29:02):
the easiest guys in this team to root for, But
there's a limitation of what he can do. There's a
reason why he spent some time this season in Louisville.
He was at times last year in automatic out He
really really has a hard time against lefties. But right
now in left field, to get a guy and Will
Benson that they're essentially refusing to play, You've got a
guy in Jake Freeley who you admire his willingness to

(01:29:26):
play through pain, but he still just feels like a
ticking time bomb playing with his shoulder that they have
acknowledged is gonna need surgery at the end of the year.
What they did this weekend is they said, you know what,
We're gonna try Noelve martin right field. And he played
six innings in right field yesterday. We're gonna try noelv

(01:29:46):
Martin right field despite the fact that as a professional
baseball player he has never played the position, and in
the middle of a playoff push, we're gonna try it
to try it in right field and weelfe Marte. And
one of the stated reasons why I was, well, we

(01:30:09):
want to, you know, work Santiago Espanol back into the lineup,
and like we all like Santiago Espinal Is he a
guy you want to watch play every single day? Like
they're to me, they're basically telling you, we gotta find
offensive help somewhere. We either need a true right fielder
who's not a third baseman that we're gonna stick in

(01:30:30):
right field, who is an upgrade from what we have
right now. This collection of players that just add it
up aren't very good, or we need corner infield help
and uh, if we're gonna play Santiago Espinal at third base,
that's that's a dicey proposition for already an offensively struggled
team that has playoff aspirations. Does that mean they're gonna

(01:30:53):
go get a u Haaneo Suarez? I have no idea.
Does that mean they're gonna get a guy like a
Steven Kuan? I don't know. But to me, like if
if you're throwing your hands up, going screw it, we're
gonna try Noel A Marte out there in right field
because what else we got. To me, that's a very
clear message we need we need a corner outfield bat,

(01:31:14):
or we need a third base bat, and we'll just
we'll just try it with Noelve Marte out there in
right field. Fact to me, on field, there were some
other things. You know, we've talked about this a lot
today that the most encouraging thing that happened this weekend
was Matt McClain got on base. You know, six times
this weekend looked better at the play it after those

(01:31:35):
first two strikeouts on Friday night. The two whole production
has to improve regardless of what happens at the trade deadline.
And you know, we talked about Amelia Pegan, who was
awesome in the ninth inning after allowing a couple of
base runners. Nick Lodolo continues to very quietly have a
solid season, but as we wonder what's gonna happen in

(01:31:55):
ten days. To me, the message this weekend was very
very clear. We are so oh screwed up in right field.
We'll try a third basement out there. But if we
try a third baseman out there, now, we're gonna have
a gaping hole offensively at third base they they have
highlighted to get. Now, if you get a corner outfielder.

(01:32:16):
I think most of us are very okay with Noelve
Marte playing third, but hey, look, maybe we're trading for
a third baseman. We're not taking Noelve Marty out of
the lineup, so dude's gonna have to figure out a
way to play somewhere. Let's stick him in right field.
Like what that to me was the most interesting thing
that happened this weekend. We are either so bad in

(01:32:37):
right field, we'll try Marte out there, or we got
a chance to get a guy who could play third
and help our offense, but we don't want to bench
Noelve Marte, So we're sticking him in right field and
maybe he'll he'll do some dhing like you can't with
a straight face. Go well, it gives us a chance
to get Santiago Espen on the lineup and make anybody
feel like, oh, that's a good option. Sports Headlines are

(01:32:59):
next on ESPN fifteen thirty. Sports Headlines are a service
at Kelsey chevro Light, home of lifetime power training, protection
and guaranteed credit approval from their family Do yours for
life kelseyschev dot com. Bengals, here's the good news. We've
talked at nauseum about Shamar and Trey, and I'll be

(01:33:19):
honest with you man, like, I think, with the exception
of some time with Paul Danner Junior tomorrow, I think
as the week unfolds and they get on the field,
I think some other stuff is going to be a
little bit more interesting to talk about. Trey could be
one thing. If he shows up and decides to hold in,
we will see. But anyway, Zach Taylor today said that

(01:33:41):
Dax Hill is going to be cleared for the start
of training camp, which is terrific news. Obviously, Dax dealt
with a torn acl and you know, it felt to
me like he was starting to kind of get it
at his new position last year and then then he
suffered the injury. Also, Bjy Hill's going to be good
to go for the started training camp. He dealt with

(01:34:04):
an injury obviously wasn't a very huge one during spring
and summer. Al Golden said that Bjay Hill will be
good to go starting tomorrow, actually starting on Wednesday. That's
the first practice and the first Tonyan Mode training camp
show on ESPN fifteen thirty beginning Wednesday at ten am. Now,
as far as Trey Hendrickson, Duke Tobin says, he expects
Trey to a show and by the way, you would

(01:34:26):
expect the de facto general manager of the football team
to say that they expect a player under contract to
show up. Trey is under contract. If he doesn't show up,
the team can start to find him. Zach Taylor went
out of his way to remind Trey hendricks Into that
that made Trey mad for reasons that I don't understand,
but he said he expects him to show up. Mike
Brown said, we're not trading Trey Hendrickson. Duke Tobin today

(01:34:49):
said he doesn't blame Schamar Stewart. He blames the advice
he's being given from his agent. That's where things stand
with both those guys. Bengals training camp begins Wednesday, practice
in the morning at ten, and the first preseason game
two weeks from Thursday, when the Bengals good to Philadelphia
to take on the defending Super Bowl champion Eagles right
here on ESPN fifteen thirty. Meanwhile, the Rads are in

(01:35:10):
DC tonight start a three game series against the Nationals.
Brady Singer is going to pitch for Cincinnati. Washington will
counter with righty Jake Irvin six forty tonight's first pitch
on seven hundred WLW Do you want? Do you need
a starting lineup? By the way, I'm looking at the
Reds uniforms for that game at the racetrack and they're

(01:35:33):
pretty slick. I if you are going to the game
at Bristol Motor Speedway, I hope you have an awesome
time and I will watch the event on television. A.
It's a Reds game. B. I'm excited to see what
it looks like. I am a little bit too skeptical
that the sidelines are going to be very good for
me to have any interest in going, But the uniforms

(01:35:56):
I think are okay. Don't love the hats. Starting lineup tonight,
Friedol McClain, de la Cruz Hayes's and left Lux's Dhing
Steers at first base, Noelne Martinez at third base. Tonight,
Jake Fraley's in right field, bets eighth, and Jose Travino
is catching and batting number nine twenty minutes away from

(01:36:18):
six o'clock. The Duke Tobin thing, trying to drive a
wedge between the player and the agent, is an interesting
public negotiating ployd. I talked about this a little bit
on Friday that it feels like many of us understand
Schamar Stuart's basic premise here. I don't want to be

(01:36:41):
the guy you set a precedent with. I sort of
believe the Bengals position is also not unreasonable, But I
think a lot of his kind of view things the
same way that Duke Tobin does. Right, Like, your agent's
not really helping you here. Even if you think the
Chamar Stuart Camps position is the correct one, I think

(01:37:03):
we would all agree that Schamar is sitting in the
locker room during training camp and kind of popping off
isn't the way to do things. That's not helping anybody.
It's not a good look for him, it's not helpful
to the cause of getting what he's looking for. It's
another quote distraction. And maybe Schamar Stewart did that and
went rogue when he did that. Maybe he was acting

(01:37:25):
on the advice of his agent. But it has felt
for a lot of us like the agent isn't really
doing Schamar Stuart any favors here. Many have also said
that it feels like the Bengals didn't do their complete
homework with Shamar Stewart. That's also a reasonable criticism. I

(01:37:47):
don't think the Bengals get off when you talk about like, well,
it's the agent here, I don't think that absolves the
Bengals of Blaine. Again, I think the Bengals position here
is reasonable. But in any in any working relationship, you
have to know who you're working with. If you hire somebody,
your chances are if you're a good manager, you don't

(01:38:09):
do it blind. You know, you do it having some
degree of how they're going to fit in with the
other people in the office. You know what kind of
fit they're going to be, what their strengths are, what
their deficiencies are, how they're going to handle adversity, what
kind of problem solvers they are, that kind of thing,
I think when it relates when it comes to the
agent in play here, Bengals had the pre draft process

(01:38:31):
to become familiar with who they were going to be
working with, who's not a total unknown. He has other
NFL clients. Zach Hiller is, I guess the agent's name.
I think part of your doing your homework is you
know it's signability, but it's also you know, we're going
to sign this guy. We're gonna draft this guy, and
then we we're going to need a good working relationship
with the person who's going to be representing the guy.

(01:38:53):
We taken round one, and it feels like that didn't
necessarily happen here. So it's it's easy and to a
degree understandable to say, well, it's not really Shamar, it's
the agent. That's all well and good, But you drafted
this guy knowing this was going to be the agent
you would be working with, and you still took him,

(01:39:15):
which says that you thought you were going to have
a good working relationship with the guy that right now
you clearly don't. We will see. We will see five, one, three, seven, four, nine,
fifteen thirty. Uh, let's get a break in seventeen from six.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Uh, it's

(01:39:35):
eleven away from six. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Moeggar.
Tomorrow in the show, our friend Paul Danner Junior is
going to join us from the Athletic in the Growler Podcast.
I'll do a quick plug for you know, the Growler
Podcast network has Power Stack, which is their Reds podcast.
They did a crossover episode Brian Geesen's log and Charlie

(01:39:56):
Goldsmith and Paul Dayner Junior with Bengals head coach Zach
Taylor where they talked about the Reds and talked about
baseball and it's really good and you should listen to it,
and those guys should give me something for plugging their podcast.
Paul's with us tomorrow on a whole slew of Bengals
related topics. Obviously more on the Bengals as we get
closer and closer to the start of training camp, and

(01:40:17):
we also later on in the week. I'm excited we
have Phil Steele on the show, an annual right of
Midsummer is we get phill on to preview the college
football season and Rad's nationals tonight as well. We'll have
that for you tomorrow. We got called out today. We
got called out today. On SINCY three sixty, Austin Elmore
had on his show Ben Baby, who covers the Bengals

(01:40:40):
for ESPN dot com and Ben has been in that
capacity now for a while and does a good job.
Here is Ben calling out our show on SINCY three
sixty earlier today.

Speaker 3 (01:40:53):
Hey Joan, well, you know, listen to all the contract
stuff get done. I'll tell you what I like. The
chance of Trey getting a deal tone better than I
like Mo bringing me on his show.

Speaker 1 (01:41:03):
Any true.

Speaker 2 (01:41:06):
That is?

Speaker 1 (01:41:07):
That's incredible. I was gonna say say sure you up.

Speaker 3 (01:41:09):
And say make sure you quip it and saving for
him when he comes in I will.

Speaker 1 (01:41:13):
I hope he's listening right now. I'm sure he will
have a response dialed up. Okay, So here is the response.
And I did touch on this a little bit with
Austin when we did quick Hits at the end of
his show. So Ben Baby is referencing the fact that
since he has started covering the Bengals, which I believe
started in twenty nineteen, and I'm almost certain about that

(01:41:35):
because I remember reading a story that he wrote about
Zach Taylor during Zach Taylor's first season. It was about
Zach Taylor getting Starbucks every morning, and I thought it
was a good story, and not that Ben needs validation
for me or anybody else, but I retweeted it, and
I remember when I did that, it was the Bengals
were terrible, that you're so nobody wanted to say anything
nice about Zach Taylor, and I remember reading the comments,

(01:41:57):
but I thought, so it's been the point being, it's
been a while that Ben has been on the beat,
and we've not had Ben on the show with the
exception of maybe once or twice. And I don't know
that how we make the sausage is all that interesting

(01:42:18):
to you or others in the audience, but I felt
like it should be addressed since Ben put it out there.
My response to that is Ben has every reason to
be critical of this show for not having him on,
because we deserve it, because Ben is really good at
what he does. And would i've met Ben, I don't

(01:42:41):
know him extraordinarily. Well, I'm not in the horde of
people who goes and covers the team. I'm a fan
with a microphone and I have a hard time doing
this job well, much less be able to be an
actual journalist. Ben is one, and he's really good at
what he does, and he's written a lot of really
good things, and he's good on the air, and he
brought it to the public that we have not had

(01:43:01):
them on and that's been our negligence, and that's been
our short sighted this. And look, there are a lot
of people who cover the Bengals, a lot of people
who cover sports in town who do a really good job,
and we kind of have our people that there are
go tos and I think because of that, we've kind
of fallen into our comfort zone of like we don't

(01:43:23):
expand our our rolodex or don't expand our guest list.
And that's really short sighted by me. And it's something
that I have thought about a lot today since I
heard that audio, and it's something that we could apply
to other people who cover other teams in town. So
this is since Ben put it out there, my public response, Ben,

(01:43:44):
we want to have you on the show, and I
respect what you do and think you're really good at
what you do. And this is not the first time
this has been brought to my attention, but I think
it's the first time it's been made public. We have
not refused to have you out of any personal animus. Uh,
there's no ill will on our behalf. I just I

(01:44:08):
sometimes can be very short sighted in my opic and
I will tell you there are a number of times
we've done something and I have thought I should have
gotten this person on, or we should have gotten this
person on, or we should have you know, had this
person's perspective. And this is not an excuse. I also
will acknowledge that when since E three sixty launched, which

(01:44:29):
started as a one hour show when James Rapeene still
worked here, and gradually became a two hour show, and
then it became a three hour show, somewhat subconsciously but
also somewhat consciously, we kind of made the decision that
we were gonna leave some folks that became Tony and
Austin's and and you know, it doesn't make a lot

(01:44:50):
of sense for us to have the same guests, especially
on the same day or the same week. There is
some overlap. But I do try to communicate with those
guys and go, Okay, here's what I'm thinking. But if
you're going to have him on, we're not going to
do it. We'll maybe play some audio. And so I
when that show launched, there was always like, all right,
here are the people that we always have on. You
have everybody else. That doesn't mean that we can't have

(01:45:15):
Ben on the show. And so I don't know if
Ben is listening. My guess is he's not. But if
you know, we'll put this out there and maybe somebody
will tell him or he'll hear it secondhand or hear
it when we put it out there on social media.
We like what Ben does and we want to have
him on the show. And the fact that he mentioned
that we haven't had him on, to me, that's a

(01:45:37):
reflection of his willingness to come on. And so I'll
certainly make the overtures privately, but publicly since he put
it out there, our response is we think Ben's really
good at what he does, and we want to have
him be on. And he certainly doesn't need our show,
but we would like to have him on. And there

(01:45:58):
are probably others who cover sports in town that we
could benefit from having on our show as well. So
there you go, Ben, if you hear this, we are
fans of your work, and it's our fault. It's my fault.
It's not even our fault, it's my fault that we
haven't had you on. And we're an ESPN affiliate. We
should have on the ESPN Reporter and which we have

(01:46:22):
done in the past, and there's no real reason why
we haven't done it with you other than my just incompetence.
So trust me, my incompetence has has led me to
make a lot of mistakes doing this show, both on
air and in the behind the scenes production of it,
and this would be an example of my short sightedness

(01:46:44):
and incompetence not having somebody who our audience could learn from.
So Ben, we're going to have you on if you're willing.
Thank you for listening, Have a great night. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty