The Tony and Mo Football Show LIVE from the Kenwood Practice Bubble -- 8/12/25

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is a special edision of the Tully and Move
Football Show, drought to you by AE Dorn Window. We
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(00:22):
paint and body quality of yesterday, Knowledge of today broadcast area.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Here's Tony and Mo.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'll the ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Right, We're back. We're bumping Clinton Company today. It's the
AE Dorn Window Tony and Mode Training Camp Show on
ESPN fifteen thirty. Moeggor with Tony Pike. We are brought
to you by a door and Window. They sell the
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sponsoring this broadcast and supporting the Bengals all these many years.
Moeger and Tony Pike, we are together until noon. Since

(00:56):
he three sixty at twelve o'clock. I am back at
three oh five. He is with me every hour this
afternoon with live training camp reports. This is a very
special edition of the Tony and Moo Training Camp Show,
broadcasting from the airport paint and body broadcast area. The
beauty of the airport paint and body broadcast area is
it's portable. You can move it around. And so today

(01:18):
we have brought it to our Kenwood studios. We are
covering training camp from our studios in Kenwood, Hi, Tony.

Speaker 4 (01:23):
Yeah, it's exciting a lot of moving parts. That happened
early this morning. Uh, to get us to arrive right
here where we sit every day.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yes, yes, you know what we can do. We're not
at training camp today. The Bengals are about to practice
right now. What we can do a couple of different things.
We could see if Austin can come up with some
like ambient practice sounds, so we can have like whistles
belonging to the background, some sleds being pushed, that sort
of thing, and we can you know, radio is all
about theater of the mind. We can kind of pretend

(01:55):
we're watching practice and like point out some things that
we think we'd be seeing if we were down there.

Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah, I mean to really go and pull the curtain back.
Got there, really wanted to be because we haven't done
this and feels like a week or it might be
a week since we were down there together, and I'm like,
you know what, I want to get down there, Let's
set the scene, let's park up because we got three
more days.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
To do this, and like this was going to be
one of those practices. The part of training camp where
fans can come has come gone.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
This was up.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
I liked the idea of Hey, you can't get down there,
but we're there for you. Not today.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
I pulled up and I'm walking across the street and
I'm like, man, it's really quiet around here today. And
our guy Mike Mills, who goes above and beyond to
make sure we're taking care of this, is sitting outside
the gate of the practice facility. I'm like, Mike, what's
going on? Well, no one's here to let me in.
So then my mind starts racing and I start texting.

(02:51):
I text Charlie, I text James Rapine. I just said, Hey,
is practice at the normal time today? And they said yes.
So I pursued to go, like, we get credentials inside
the actual paid course stadium. We get our credentials and
I walk in there and there's this two big greyhound
buses and then I'm like, this is not a joint practice.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Day.

Speaker 4 (03:12):
Is there someone here watching practice today? So I asked
and was told no, they're practicing inside today. They're just
busting the guys over.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
So here we are, which is fine, it's really hot.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Go practice indoors. No one tells us.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
But we still have to do a show in our
area where we're typically broadcasting from. They would not allow
us to.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
It's one hundred degrees, and so like the then the
options become, all right, well, we can try to find
someone from security that can open this door the gate.
By then then Mike's got to set everything up because
he's got two big wagons full of equipment. And I'm like,
so then we would just kind of be in one
hundred degrees and we would just be sitting there like
we are right now, with nothing happen. Right There's a

(04:02):
lot of things that have been really cool about being
able to go under these practices. Today was not one
of them. I know, the bubbles not extremely large, but
I think there's room in the bubble we can maybe
put a table, maybe connect to the internet.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
I don't know what it is, but yes, I agree
with you.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
The thing that's most exciting about this and why it
sucks that we're in studio today. Is these were the
days where people can't go down there. So in the
past there might be fans that are like, I'll just
go down and watch. Today was one of those days
where if I can't go down and watch, I'm surely
gonna listen in and see what's going on. And oh,
by the way, there's a lot of storylines around this
team as they start their preparation for the Commanders.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
There are, and we're going to talk about them. But
you know, we were last able to do one of
these shows on Tuesday of last week. Wednesday, they traveled
to Philly. Thursday, they played the game. Friday, they were
off because they played the game, and they were off yesterday.
So but we were down there on Tuesday, and that
practice was also not open to the public, and I
had folks tell me like, that was cool of you

(05:04):
guys to be able to sort of paint a picture
of what was going on. That was not the most
intense practice, and so I was looking forward to doing
that with maybe a little bit more punched to the
workout today and perhaps tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
This was going to be this is set to be
a big work day.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
Yeah, Today and tomorrow and then you kind of start
to wean off a little bit at the end of
the week, right. I think for us it's today, Tomorrow,
and Friday, and those are the last opportunities we have
to go down there, and then Washington's gonna come Monday,
and we know what that's going to look like with
starters presumably playing more into that game, and a lot

(05:40):
of questions on the defensive side of the ball.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
But here we are all right.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
Well we are here, and even though we are in studio,
not by our choice, we do have a lot to discuss.
There are a lot of different storylines. Let's roll through
a couple of things. Zach Taylor talked with the media
just a short time ago, and we'll carry that for
you a little bit later on. He addressed the Jermaine situation,
which Jermaine Burton himself addressed yesterday, and he said he
thinks he may have suffered the injury that he's dealing

(06:06):
with in the game against the Philadelphia Eagles. He will
be at practice today working on one of the rehab fields,
and so you know, Jermaine kind of stepped out yesterday
and said, look, there's been something said about me. I
am injured. He put it in all caps, and I
appreciate him and addressing it the way he has. You
mentioned this to me yesterday. The Bengals could have headed

(06:28):
this off before yesterday and said Jermaine is not here, yeah,
because he is hurt. Will have more to say about
this tomorrow when Zach Taylor speaks in the absence of that. Look.
I think there's a fine line between being irresponsible and
being curious, and when a player like Jermaine Burton, who
has his track record suddenly doesn't show up, it does
peak someone's curiosity. Certainly piqued my curiosity in ways that

(06:52):
another guy missing a practice would not.

Speaker 4 (06:55):
Yeah, it's what was created by himself and all the
issues that were last year. And to me, I think
there are times where things are made harder than they
need to be. If you come out of the preseason
game and you say, oh, Jermaine, you know he was
banged up, he hurt his hand, hurt his leg, whatever
it may be, you then don't have to answer the

(07:17):
questions of Germaine not being out there, Jermaine not on
the rehab field, and then an undisclosed injury, because that's
immediately going to have people think to what they're going
to resort back to what we saw and witnessed last
year throughout the season, and it's coming off a game where,
let's be honest, going into it, I thought he would
have more of an impact. I thought he would be
targeted more. I thought he would get more reps with

(07:39):
the one. So then I'm like, my mind is like,
h it's probably upset about his usage. Charlie Jones is
a guy we didn't talk much about, but coming out
of the game, now I'm talking about him, and you
put all those things together, and you're left to speculate, Yeah,
because you just don't cut the head of the snake
off right there and say, hey, you got banged up
in the game. He'll be back out here. We're good
moving forward. Undisclosed. He's not on the rehab field, he's

(08:02):
not out there watching practice. That all makes it just
seem a little more precarious.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
It was interesting how little we talked about him after
the game versus how much we talked about him going in.
And look, he's going to have more opportunities in the preseason. Hopefully,
hopefully the injury doesn't keep him from playing at least
one of the last two preseason games. But I think
relative to how much we talked about him and the
practices leading up to Thursday, the fact that we walked
away from Thursday, I'm not even driving thought about Jermaine

(08:30):
Burton is striking.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, doesn't necessarily mean you had to draw conclosure.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
Yah had one good return, but wasn't really a factor
in the offense at all.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
I thought.

Speaker 4 (08:41):
I thought that the game plan and the offense was
so good I could have won without seeing Chase and
Higgins on the second drive, and maybe a lot because
I was thinking, Okay, Burton will get in there, try
to work on some of that you know, confidence or
maybe that that trust that needs to be rebuilt, and
he wasn't. And as the game went on, you're kind
of like, yeah, it's one of the players that we've
talked a lot about and others have talked a lot

(09:03):
about as well, that didn't really have an impact in
the game like I thought he would.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
So Jermaine Burton is accounted for today going to work
out in the practice field, on the rehab field. I'm sorry,
are you allowed to talk about what you didn't see
in the players parking lot today?

Speaker 4 (09:14):
I think that's fair, okay, I mean that's where we go. Yeah,
you know, all the players they park right where we
go check in. Uh huh, And it's like the you know,
you want to talk about what's what in car world?
There are some nice, nice cars in that thing. But
parked usually right next to where Burrow and Higgins park

(09:34):
is Trey Hendrickson's parking spot. And as I'm leaving, that's
the only parking spot that's empty today. Maybe he uber
to practice, so maybe he Ubert. Maybe his wife needs
the family car and dropped him off. Maybe he parked
on the other side and he's in the offices, could
be at pay Corps and getting a deal done.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:51):
But see, that's the type of stuff we wouldn't get
if we were just stuck in a studio every day
at Bengal's training camp.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Right.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
These are the sort of observations that didn't see his
car no trade. Maybe maybe they said, hey, you're not
going to practice, why don't you run out and get
his donuts?

Speaker 2 (10:04):
You think he's late?

Speaker 3 (10:06):
You know, maybe he was like, dude, I was no
picking Burton up. If Tony and Moark going to be here,
why do I need to be this was the day
he was going to come talk to us. He was
going to set up shop. I'm not going to stand inside.
I want to be out in the heat.

Speaker 4 (10:18):
Somebody down there caught Win that he was getting ready
to come join us on air this intending noon.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
This is our first training camp show since the game
on Thursday night, which on other shows we have dissected
to death. Bengals will play the Commanders on Monday night
on ESPN fifteen thirty, and we'll see a much more
extensive usage of the starters. But let's spend a little
bit of time on what we saw on Thursday. If
there's a thirty thousand foot takeaway from the first preseason

(10:45):
game for you, what is it?

Speaker 4 (10:47):
Offense looks elite defense has a long long way to go,
like it's it's really that simple. Yeah, And we discussed
this a little bit yesterday that game was going to
be a lose lose as well as.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Soon as you can.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
Came out and said our starters are playing, and they
said theirs aren't. It's a lose lose because let's say
the offense comes out and they they pun on the
first drive and they go get a field goal on
the second drive and then the quarter's over and they're
out of the game. What are we saying, offense couldn't
move against the second and third team of Philly instead offense, Look, Crisp,
that's great, but it comes with the same thought of

(11:20):
that's what they're supposed to do and leading into the game.
One of the things I wanted to see the most
was the physical nature because we had talked when was
the last time you left a Bengals game and said, man,
they were the more physical team, Like, they dominated in
the trenches. They punched the other team in the mouth
most of the time. It's they just beat them with skill.
They got beat up front, but they've got Joe Burrow

(11:41):
and they've got Jamar Chase and t Higgins and Chase Brown.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
Oddly, do you want to know my answer to that question? Yes,
it is the last game of the season. Last year
against Pittsburgh felt a.

Speaker 4 (11:48):
Little bit like that. Yeah, Austin, you had mentioned. Austin
mentioned when I asked that a game that he went
to with you. Oh yeah, was it against the Colts? Austin, Yeah,
like a late in the season guy for heart was
a mc guys were hurting and like, man, they out physically.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
I spent the entire time marveling to Austin about how
tall Shane Steichen is.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
Yeah, but but that's like that's that was the lose.
Lose because it's like I wanted to see the offense
dominate the line of scrimmage, and for the most part,
it felt like they did. Now what happened to the
offense when the first team went out, that's a good question.
We could talk about des Ritter, we could talk about
Jake Browning anything you want, But offense, I thought did
what they needed to do. But on the defensive side

(12:26):
of the ball, I was I was concerned after the
game because one, it felt like their second and third
we were able to push around, yes, and dominate the defense.
Up front, it felt like guys were not in the
vicinity of receivers at times. I felt like there were
communication it felt like there were gap breakdowns. And after
the game, all I heard was, well, we didn't want

(12:48):
to show anything. We were running base, which I was assumed.
I had assumed that's what we talked about all camp. Hey,
the defense looks fast, they look confident because they've kind
of shrunk down the playbooks. They're running base line play
and you're lining up and playing so well you hear well,
we're really out there hitting. This is good. Go ahead, Austin,

(13:08):
keep it going. Thank you very much, great work.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
But that's what it felt like.

Speaker 4 (13:12):
It felt like a system where if you're running base,
you should have things figured out. You should be winning
one on one battles. Instead, they lost one on one battles.
They lost more than they won, and they were pushed
around by a team second and third. That's concerning to me.
Is it like burn everything down and panic? No, but

(13:35):
it puts a heck of a lot more emphasis on
what's going to happen on Monday.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
The Bengals brand is they asked Joe Burrow to do
everything right. They're trying to get away from that brand. Obviously,
Joe is great. You saw it on Thursday, right Like,
not that you needed a reminder, but he was awesome.
He is, for my money, the best quarterback in the league.
We're going to talk about Mike Sando from the Athletic
his NFL tiers unanimous Tier one QB. But the Bengals

(13:59):
brand is they asked Joe Burrow to do a little
bit too much. Thursday did nothing to move them off
of that, Brandy. So now my first takeaway was, Okay,
the biggest reason why the Bengals have lost the last
three years has been the play of Joe Burrow. You
could say, well, it's because of his calf two years
ago because he wasn't completely or he needed to be
after rist surgery last year, the ependectomy three years fine, whatever,

(14:22):
But the quarterback play of the Bengals in Week one
the last three years has been substandard.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
They've looked off. The offense hasn't looked sharp.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
So my first takeaway was, all right, that issue that
has plagued the Bengals and season openers the last three
years should be a thing of the past, because if
you're gonna look sharp offensively in preseason game one, I'm
not to assume you have a very good chance of
looking the part in the first game.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Got me got me wondering, like do you adjust at all?

Speaker 3 (14:50):
Mo?

Speaker 4 (14:51):
How you handle the Washington game? Like did they look they?
Did they look so good that you say, man, I
don't Maybe I don't need to see him for an hour,
or I don't need to see him for a half.
Maybe I'd see him for another couple drives because That's
what when I started watching, I'm like, maybe maybe they
don't need this, Maybe they don't need to play a

(15:11):
half against the Commanders on a bad football field.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
I don't need to see Jamar and t that extensively.
I'm not going to complain if I see him out
there for a series because look, I'm guessing not going
to play against Indy on the twenty third. There is
some timing. I mean, you know you saw last year,
like it's not like riding a bike. There is something about,
you know, the chemistry and the timing and all that

(15:35):
sort of stuff. So I'm not opposed to those guys playing,
but I'm also not entirely in favor of them playing
six series and a half. By the way, our friend
Jay Morrison Bengals Talk dot Com reports specifically for us
that Joseph Osai is back at work in the Bubble today.
I tell you he has a tweeted out a photo
of the team looking like they're going through their stretching.

(15:56):
And I do see some areas where maybe we.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Could be run. You think they could fit a table like.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Where Jay is standing right now in the back of
the end zone. Yes, yes, I don't need to be
on the fifty yard line. That would be cool.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
I don't need to though, I just want to be
in the building.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
That would be cool. But you know we have we
have the sound of practice on behind us. It sounds
like we're there. I like the guys that are hitting today. Yeah,
you could. You said this was going to be a
heavy work there, old fashioned football practice in Oklahoma coming.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
There's the whistle in the background.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
Maybe maybe we'll hear like a skirmish, a fight, a
little bit of a frakas perhaps on the offense. And
you and I talked about this on my show yesterday.
The guy that I was going to be watching closest
was going to be Dylan Fairchild, and my take was,
I want to watch him and then I don't want
to talk about him anymore because if I see what

(16:47):
I need to see done, he's the guy. He there's
no chance that anybody is going to supplant him. There's
no chance that I'm gonna do. And look, he's he
might not have been perfect, He's not going to be perfect,
but he looked the part. He looked like an NFL,
a starting caliber NFL guard. And I'm going to assume
he's only going to get better. I thought his NFL
debuts go for offensive linemen who are earmarked to start

(17:09):
the first game, he more than held his own.

Speaker 4 (17:12):
Yeah, look he I thought his get off was strong.
I thought the footwork that he showed was was very good.
I thought he handled stunts. I thought he was physical
everything you wanted to be like. I would have thought
going out of the game, we would have been talking
more about Fairchild and what he needs to work on,
and instead we're talking about the other guard position and
what do they do with Lucas Patrick and Cody Ford.

(17:33):
And rightfully so, but from a rookie first preseason game
where you're thrust into a starting role to protect Joe Burrow, yeah,
there's a lot that comes with that. I thought he
handled himself extremely well. The next step for him, ideally
is going to go against some ones against Washington.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
Sure, you know that's where you do find value.

Speaker 4 (17:52):
Okay, Now you're going to go against some much better
competition against Washington, and then from there you're you're probably
getting to the regular season. So see AWI Fairs Monday,
check dot box, and then be ready to go Week one.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
All right, He's Tony Pike Mulleager eighty Door and Window
Tony and Mo Football Show, also brought to you by
Oakley Greens where we will be on Saturday about that
and I do want to spend some time talking with
you this week about your banker hosting. Also our guy
Tove five one three five one three t O p H.
We are broadcasting from the Airport Painted Body Broadcast Area

(18:24):
and when we.

Speaker 4 (18:25):
Our own bubble, as Austin put it, we're in our
own We're on our own bubble.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
When we go to the phones, we'll be on the
Ray Saint Claire Roofing Hotline. Uh, it's the A. E.
Doorn Window, Tony and Mo Football Show. We've got a
lot to discuss today. We do have to discuss the
issues we saw from the Bengals on defense in the
preseason open. Are the continuing questions about depth and safety. Uh.
The biggest story in the NFL right now is Shador Sanders,
who made his NFL debut for the Cleveland Browns, and

(18:50):
so now people are overreacting to that.

Speaker 4 (18:53):
About Tamer McKee. Well, i'd like Tom talking about Tamer McKee.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
I heard a lot on Friday. Well, you know it
is Tanner McKee.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Guy, that's a backup. He's one of the better ones, yep.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
And we'll talk about Mike Sandos QB Tiars and perhaps
spend a few minutes on a frustrating night at the
ballpark last night for hours Cincinnati Reds. It's nineteen minutes
after ten O'clockett's the eight E Dorant Window, Tony and
Moe Training Camp Show on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 5 (19:21):
Stations PN fifteen thirty. Orange and Black Hotline is built
by Racing Claire Roofing your Homes Trusted Problem Solver.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
Twenty four after ten O'clockhead's the eight E Dorant Window,
Tony and Moe Training Camp Show on the official Home
of the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty. Moegger and Tony Pike.
Bengal's going through a practice right now. Bengals host will
take on the wash ball there from Joe Burrow. We're

(19:52):
not gonna host them. They're going to play the Commanders
on Monday. You'll hear that live on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Bj Hill by the way back at back Int just today,
Oh my goodness, but what a hit up. You're not
supposed to touch the merchandise. Paja, hey, hey, save it down,
save it for Shador Sanders Man. Wow, unbelievable, unbelievable. I

(20:16):
mean this is physical today. There's there I tell you
what the Bengals should hope there are no union representatives
watching today's practice because there's there's some line crossing happening
right now. Unbelieved.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
You guys are on the same team, Yeah, relaxed.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
You know they're taking that their aggression on each other.
That happens sometimes. Yep, it's August twelfth. If you and
I on January twelfth were to have a conversation about
how the off season should unfold, we we would have,
and we did, but we would have debated the merits
of keeping or not keeping Geno Stone. And as much

(20:54):
as I would have been more than okay with them
saying goodbye, I do understand there's a reason why they
acquired him. Let's see if he's a better hit for
a new defensive coordinator. Fine, but we would have said,
you know what the Bengals should be and will be
marginally aggressive in addressing the safety position, just for depth.
If we were to have a conversation about that position

(21:15):
on April twelfth, we would have said and did God,
the draft is coming up, Hey, how about a guy
like Malachi Starks. He makes sense because he plays safety.
But if not him, you know, later on he might
might want to add somebody to that position. If we
would have had a conversation on May the twelfth, after
the draft, we would have said, God, you know what, man,
they really haven't done anything to safety? Is that that

(21:37):
feels like kind of a dangerous approach. Here we are
on August twelfth, and we could talk about the same
exact things, and we are with the head coach acknowledging
we need to see if we have enough depth there.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
That's immensely frustrating. I don't know. I don't know how
that's an answer. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (21:52):
Once there is a day where Ginostone can't practice, or
a couple of days where we can't practice, that the
response is, well, we need to see what we have
up there.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
What that's what the whole off season's for. That was
last year.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
What you need to decide that is evaluating what the
roster is and what it isn't. And again, it's not
like it's surprised anybody. We've spent all off season talking
about I, in my opinion, three major positions defensive end,
offensive line, especially guard, and safety, Like those have been
the three constant talking points all off season. And I'm

(22:26):
still talking about the offensive line. I'm still talking about
what's going on in the D line, where's Trey Hendrickson,
what's the status there? And I'm still talking about safety,
especially now that Geno Stone and I know it's said
to be minor, it's the term soft tissue injury that
always worries about lingering on. And you're missing practices with

(22:47):
the new decordinator and a new scheme, and the defense
didn't look good in their first opportunity against Philadelphia. Now
they got to go against Washington. Who knows who's going
to be available there. Those are a lot of different
variables that need to be addressed before the Cleveland and
their variables we've been talking about since the season ended
last year.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
Well, and the thing is with Gino Stone, and you
do hope he comes back and he's okay, he was
bad last year. Yeah, Like that's that's the other variable.
What if he's bad again this year? Like okay, fine,
I will allow for the possibility that with a different scheme,
different defensive coordinator. They dumb it down. Gino can have
a better year. Maybe he simply had a poor season,

(23:25):
and he did play better at the end of the
year last year, but he was a bad player last season.
As far as free agent acquisitions go, judging in the
short term, you would give him like a D plus
at best. So I have a player who is currently
dealing with an injury, I have a player who was
bad last year, and what's behind him? By the way,

(23:45):
in the first practice after the preseason game, Dejon Anthony
and Tyson Anderson got shoved to the side. Yeah right,
working with the first team. Dejon Anthony has barely played
safety in the NFL. Tyson Anderson in a regular season
game has not. That is a very very perilous approach. Now.
I don't know what they should do now, but I

(24:07):
certainly do know that when cutdown day gets here, we're
gonna be looking at safeties available and then wondering is
that a better option a guy off the street versus
what they have? And I think the answer is probably
gonna be yes.

Speaker 4 (24:20):
Right, But why does it get to the point of
cutdown day?

Speaker 2 (24:23):
It shouldn't right.

Speaker 4 (24:23):
Why is it not free agency? Why is it not
the draft? As we talked about, why is it not
a trade, you know, find a way to get creative
and move from someone instead. It was just kind of
hand it all off season, like that's not a position
of worry for us, that's a position of depth. And
then all of a sudden someone goes down on this
as well, we need to see what we have there,
and I.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Like, I come back to the conversations we had prior
to the draft. I'm not saying they should have drafted
Malachi Starts. I'm just saying he's a guy we talked
about a lot, right, Yeah, we talked about a handful
of other safeties that were genuine draft possibilities on Day
one or two. Obviously that's statement about the players, but
it's also a reflection of the need, like, hey, the

(25:04):
Bengals could use a safety. They're still trying to replace
Jesse Bates. They were bad at that position last year.
They could use some short term depth and maybe a
long term answer. They didn't address it in the draft,
which okay, fine, but when you get to mid August
and the head coach is acknowledging, eh, we got to
see if we have depth back there. Oh boy, it
just becomes I have a really bad feeling about that position,

(25:26):
which has been a problem the last.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
Couple of years.

Speaker 4 (25:28):
Yeah, and when you talk about what this defense can't
be under Al Golden, it's a defense that gives up
explosive place right Well, safety is the last line of
defense at the very base and the very core of it.
Your safeties are your last line of defense from giving
up the explosive plays in which this team did way
too much last year. In a defense where you're supposed
to be dumbing it down and running more base, you

(25:49):
need guys back there that can be playmakers. Mentioned at
the top of the show, you need guys that can
win one on one because if you dumb it down,
you're putting the emphasis on winning one on one battles.
You've got to win those. Can you win those with
the current crop of safeties that this team.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
Has well, and you talk about the last line of
defense for a team that also has significant questions about
how good the cornerback play is going to be. Now,
I certainly will listen to the argument that Cam Taylor
Braid is ready for a better season than last year
and the Dax Hill if you could stay healthy could
be a solution at corner and all that's well and good.
Maybe it's Josh neonor maybe somehow it's DJ Turner, Like

(26:28):
there are some options back there, but it ain't like
you go, you know what, safety can be a little
leaky because corners locked down tight. There's a lot of
questions in that entire secondary. Yeah, you know, at least
there's some other options at corner. Really doesn't present itself
in safety.

Speaker 4 (26:44):
But even there is options at corner. But at one
point last year they all got bench sure. Yes, So
that's what I heard too, because it was like, well
Cam Taylor Britt didn't play against Philly, Okay, Yeah, are
we like Dax Hill didn't play against Philly.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Okay? Those are two players who have a lot on
the line this season.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
I watched them play last year and it wasn't like,
you know, without a shadow of a doubt when they
get in started in there, who they're going to be.
There's still questions about those players. So I always tie
the two together. If you want to be successful in
the secondary, you've got to be able to get after
the passer. And if you're not great at getting after
the passer, you better be able to cover a little
bit longer, so you got more time to get home.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
The Bengals aren't excelling at either one of those. Let's
talk about getting after the passer. One guy who kind
of did, one guy who did not. When we come back,
it's twenty eight minutes away from eleven o'clock.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
It's the a E.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
Dorn Window, Tony and Mode Training Camp Show, Tony and
I together until noon, Tony and Austin for since E
three sixty. At twelve o'clock. I am back at three
oh five. Paul Dayner Junior will be with me in
studio to enhance our observations of today's training camp practice
from the perspective of someone who was there. It's twenty
eight from eleven o'clock Adorn Window, Toni and Mode Training

(27:56):
Camp Show on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station show
on ESPN in fifteen thirty Egger and Tony Pike Bengals
going through a practice inside the bubble.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
We're still here. We're still here.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
We're still here. We're still here.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Qu pack things up.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
I do quickly want to mention that I think it's
awesome that the NFL Network with Tom Pelsaro had a
chance to post up for an entire bubble practice. Yeah,
that was really great coverage from inside the bubble on
NFL Network. Tom Pelisero, who does a terrific job broadcasting
from inside the bubble as the Bengals practiced, really enjoyed

(28:39):
that coverage on the NFL Network inside the training camp
bubble where the Bengals are practicing right now.

Speaker 4 (28:45):
Yeah, just saw a very nice rep from Shamar Stewart
working with defensive line coach Jerry Montgomery. Good hand placement.
Fortunately I had to see that from James Rapine's ex account.
Oh but a great video. You can hear the sound
in the background though, of popping. H. J. Morrison from
Bengals Talk dot com reports that among the players not

(29:05):
practicing today, I'm not sure there's a major surprise on
this list. Geno Stone, Cedric Johnson, Devin Cochrane, Jermaine Burton,
who is accounted for for what it's worth working on
the rehab field, or at least that's the plan today.
Mike Sicki is not practicing, Cam Sample is not practicing,
and Trey Hendrickson is not practicing. Maybe he's playing golf today.
It could be a nice day for it, a little

(29:27):
a little warm, a little warm course, thread of thunderstorms tomorrow,
gotta have water on the course.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
They might want to get it in today. Let's talk
about Schamorrow sooner.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
Maybe he spent too long at the Snoop concert last night,
perhaps maybe, and he wanted to have a day of
rest before training tomorrow night.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
Again, let's talk about Jamar Stewart a little bit. You know,
we talked going into the preseason game that that was
going to be, you know, he and Dylan Fairchild making
their respective NFL debuts, along with Dimitri s Nighter others.
But Shamar Stewart had his contract issue with the Bengals.
It got resolved, and then he instantly shows up to
practice and starts showing out right. I mean, all the

(30:10):
reviews and everything we watched, Shamar Stewart was making an
impact in practice. Granted he didn't finish the plays in
the preseason game, but he did have a tackle for
a loss and he was I thought, disruptive. And so
he continues to change the conversation. I don't think anybody
anymore is talking about Shamar Stewart's holdout or the mini

(30:31):
camp thing. It's you know what, this guy might be
able to help in what I saw against Philadelphia was
a guy who can help this year.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, as acknowledging who he was playing against.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
As crazy as the offseason was, I have been unbelievably
surprised how smooth it's been since he's actually shown up,
because there hasn't been any other dilemma, there has been
any other problem. He he did what he thought was right.
He held out, they eventually came to an agreement, and
since that agreement's been signed, in my opinion, he's been

(31:02):
everything you wanted out of a number seventeen overall pick.
He's done the work on the field. He shows explosiveness.
He's got every bit of the fast twitch that you
want in a NFL defensive lineman to have. He can shift,
you know, positions, he can shift his speed very quickly.
His point of attack, there's an explosion that's different than

(31:24):
others that you see.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
He made it great.

Speaker 4 (31:25):
I thought the play the best play he made was
the play action pass where he showed to help the run.
Once he established the ball wasn't handed off, he was
still able to pressure the quarterback and cause an incompletion.
I thought it was his best play of the night.
But we've seen now throughout our time at training camp
and our time following along with others at training camp.
While we sit here in our bubble, I think that

(31:47):
he's done everything you want him to be.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
Yeah, And I think what you just heard in the
background is is he took I couldn't see who that
was that he took that offensive tackle and lifted him
five feet off the ground.

Speaker 4 (31:57):
Well, he lifted the tackle and then Tozz Brooks was
trying to chip Ye and he with one arm steamrolled him.
Was able to push Toz Brooks away and provide pressure
to the quarterback.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
And he got pressure to the quarterback. Des Ritter back there,
Schamar Stewart knows to leave to leave well enough alone.
But I think you know right there, he could have
decapitated Desmond Rider.

Speaker 4 (32:16):
When do we have the des ridder pushing Jake Browning
for the number two QB conversations?

Speaker 3 (32:21):
Let's call that what it was. Jake Browning had a
bad performance. Yes, he had a bad performance against Philadelphia.
He's allowed to have a bad performance. But I look,
he's the number two. He's a good number two. The
coaching staff has been adamant from the moment that Des
Ridder showed up that Jake is the number two, but
performance can change things. Tone.

Speaker 4 (32:42):
Yeah, Look, I thought Jake Browning was lucky to leave
the game with one interception.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
I thought he could have thrown two or three.

Speaker 4 (32:48):
Yeah, and for Dez to show the way he did
while also being still behind, I would assume, Yeah, I mean,
Browning's been here a couple of years.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Dez got here a couple of weeks ago. Des looked
in command, and.

Speaker 4 (32:59):
He was doing it with guys that Jake Browning didn't
have the ability to do it with. I mean, no
offense to Jamoy May's or but they're third team guys
and he's still making completions. He's still throwing touchdown passes.
I thought he showed extremely, extremely well in his first opportunity.
And I'm not saying sound the alarm is year. You

(33:19):
heard right there? Does just hit Jamoy May's across the
middle again.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
And what a ground.

Speaker 4 (33:25):
Put it in the only spot that Jamoy could go
get it in between three defenders.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Great pocket too there by the second team offensive line.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
Nice window, Yeah, good pocket yep, dos had some options there,
found joy Mas.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah, was that Evan McPherson at safety. They anything today?

Speaker 3 (33:40):
Wow, yeah number two right, yeah, back during coverage. Unbelievable,
trying some stuff out. I like this to do multiple things. Yeah,
but it's not a conversation. But what if Browning looks
bad against Washington and does looks good again, des.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Is going to be playing quarterback for another team? Does
to the cults?

Speaker 3 (33:59):
I mean and legitimately that's I think that's the most
likely outcome. But no, it's Jake Browning looked the way
I feared he was going to look when he got
thrust into a regular season game two years ago.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah, by the.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Way, I've heard and we'll have this for you. You know,
Cam Little made a seventy yard field goal. He did
for the Jaguars in their preseason game against Pittsburgh. We'll
see if an opportunity presents itself in the game on Monday.
But i've heard that today, especially because of the controlled
conditions inside the bubble, Evan McPherson's going to try a

(34:34):
seventy five yard field.

Speaker 4 (34:35):
Goal really, yea in the bubble. In the bubble, that'd
be awesome to be able to see that.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Because you know, some fans are lobbying for the NFL
to make that the official record, which Justin Tucker said
a couple of years ago, Tom Dempsey held it forever
and the Bengals will then posit a petition if Evan
makes this seventy five yard field goal in practice a
little bit later on for that to be the official record.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
How who was the holder on record for that seventy yarder.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
For the Jaguars. I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Oh, I thought it was a former bear Cat.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
Well, Max Fletcher, the current Mason Max Yeah, held for
him at Arkansas. Yeah, so so he knows what he's doing.
I guess so holding situation.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
That means that you see, he'll be better kicking field
goals this year.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Well, they've got to be better in special teams up
and down. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
Seventy yards is insane, ridiculous, Like that is, yes, ridiculous,
absolutely bonkers to think about. I like about like growing,
like I used to think like a forty forty five
yard was a bomb. Yeah, and then like fifty became
the new normal, and for a year, fifty five was
money for mcpheerson. I'm like, oh, this is three points
on the board. Yeah, seventy yards is crazy. I mean,

(35:44):
you talk about like when we were kids. I remember
Scott Norwood's field goal miss that goes wide right in
the Super Bowl against the Buffalo Bills. I believe was
a forty seven yarder and it was talked about like,
you know what, give him a break.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
That's a really long kick. Now, twenty seven yard are
supposed to be automatic. Yes, mcer Evan McPherson kicked okay
against Philadelphia. Didn't make a seventy yarder, but he kicked
okay against Philadelphia.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Good for him, good start.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
It's a good start for d Now they got it
working in safety.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
Is there anything about I thought about this? The field
in Washington's been a horror show.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Not good.

Speaker 4 (36:22):
I would I would, honestly think about limiting the snaps
for the starters on offense, just because I've seen enough.
Do you I've seen I've seen them operate at a
high level. I'd like to see him get another one
or two series.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
All right? What if that first series is three? Now,
then I'll o put it up to more. What if
that first series is seven? Play? Touchdown? Drive down, you're good,
sit down. I don't know that it has to be
a whole half. No, that's that's a lot. Do you
would you ratchet back the participation in Washington and then

(36:55):
say we're going to play some of them against Indy.

Speaker 4 (36:57):
I would give him the I would give Joe the
option and say, hey, this is I mean, it's not
a secret.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
There's still gonna be more than two weeks between the
last preseason game and the first record season a secret
that that field in Washington is a nightmare. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
Do you want to limit and say let's go to
series here and then get another series in the finale
or would you rather play this whole half and then
be done until Cleveland?

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeah, because ultimately I still I.

Speaker 4 (37:22):
Still go to what Joe thinks or what Joe sure
it is more comfortable with.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
Sure, I wouldn't mind him just because of the amount
of time between games. Now, look, that's gonna be a
very quick turnaround. They're gonna play Monday and then have
a Saturday one o'clock game, right, I mean, so yeah,
you're I would I would find it hard to believe
you're gonna get your starters ready to go for that
game against Washington and then have them turn around and

(37:47):
play on an extraordinarily short week during the day. Yeah,
so chances are their chances are they're not going to
deviate too much from the plan.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah. I would say they'll still do it, but I
would check out first. You see what happens with the weather.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
I guess is yeah. It is fourteen minutes away from
eleven o'clock. The eight e Dorn Window Tony and Mo
Training Camp Show is brought to you in part by
Oakley Greens TOF five one three five one three toph
We are broadcasting from the Airport Paint and Body Broadcast
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This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station from the

(38:22):
Brown Heating Temp Star, weatherstit Ae, Door and Window. Tony
and Moe Training Camp Show on ESPN fifteen thirty Waggar
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September the eighth.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
James Rapeene Felling in for Tony got a.

Speaker 4 (38:42):
It's coming up quicker and quicker now it is. We're
under a month away, so it's gonna be the longest
month ever. But we're under a month away.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
Here's here's here's what drives me nuts about the way
we do things in this day and age. Uh. We'll
bounce back to the Bengals specifically here in just a second.
So Shadora Sanders made his NFL debut on Friday night
for the Cleveland Browns, and he's basically gone from four
string guy to a starter. And I give that dude

(39:11):
a lot of credit because he looked prepared. He looked
ready for all the noise surrounding him, for the weirdness
of their quarterback situation. For all of his I'm sure
disappointment for falling to five, it's falling to the fifth round.
In that context, he looked really good. Unfortunately we get
a Nike AD. I watched some of the shows over

(39:35):
the weekend and this morning and yesterday that they scream
at each other. It's like the Browns have solved their
quarterback situation. Their poise for long term success might run
the AFC North for the rest of the decade. It's
not enough to say, boy, that dude had a really
promising debut. That's really encouraging. Maybe he'll be the guy
in Cleveland. It has to explode. I don't think much

(39:56):
of that is Shador Sanders' fault. I'm assuming he has
to sign off in the Nike add but it's not
enough to just say quality debut. He looked really good
from a Cleveland perspective. Hopefully he can build on it.
Maybe he should be the starter week one. We'll see.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah. Look, I thought I summed it up yesterday.

Speaker 4 (40:16):
I saw enough from Shador Sanders in his first preseason
start that made me say he deserves to get another opportunity.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Of course.

Speaker 4 (40:23):
Yeah, I don't think it's more than that. I don't
think it's much less than that. He didn't do anything
that says, oh, he's never going to see the field, right,
But he did do enough that if it were me,
I would say, let's get him more reps in the
next preseason game and see how he fares in that. Yeah,
because I thought, again, I.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
Saw enough for me to go, you know what, maybe
that guy should be the starter if things keep going
in that direction.

Speaker 4 (40:47):
For the situation he was thrown into and the dumpster
fire that is being in a camp with six quarterbacks,
and I feel like he handed it as well as
he possibly could. I feel like, you know, learning a
day or two before you're going to be thrust in
there that you're starting. I thought he had a good

(41:07):
grasp of the playbook. He's going to understand that there
are things you can't get away with at the NFL
level when you're scrambling around, and there are plays where
it's the best play to just throw it away, but
moving around, going on the run, timing, understanding it felt
like of protections and different things like that. Yeah, I
thought he managed the game really well. I will say this,
I'm not sure the numbers tell the entire story. The
numbers are okay, fourteen of twenty three, one eight a

(41:30):
couple of touchdowns.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
To me, it was just watching him like he he
looked like an in control, well positioned, well prepared NFL
quarterback in that short window.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
It's it's not enough to simply acknowledge that. We have
to make it out to be bigger than it is.

Speaker 4 (41:45):
Yeah, And it's also you kind of see what the
attention around him is going to continue to be, uh huh,
because there are other quarterbacks in the preseason that had
better stat lines, that played better that aren't going to
be getting the attention. But that's just going to come
with being Deon sanders Son, you.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Think that first Bengals Brown's game is a Fox game.
If you're a Fox, you're praying for Shard Sanders Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
I mean that from a storyline standpoint. Yeah, you're begging
for Shadora versus Joe. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:13):
Oh you hear that, Josh Newton. That was a nice,
nice pass breakdown there by Josh Newton on a ball
designed for t Higgins. Wow, that's a nice nice play.
Looks like you got there right as the ball did.
No penalty. Yeah, good pass breakup there from Josh Newton.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
And the secondary. Look the confidence they're playing.

Speaker 4 (42:32):
Well, they dumbed it down a little bit today. Yeah,
they dumped it down. I thought Demetrius Knight coming from
the second level, applied nice pressure there to Jake Browning.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
They've dumbed it down so much that what they have
is they just have the cornerback standing ten yards away
from the receiver.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yes, and they ask him once the ball is not
to just stand there.

Speaker 4 (42:47):
Well, they're creating a bubble for themselves, right, you know,
a bubble to keep everything in front of them.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
Umbrella, an umbrella, little umbrella. I like umbrella coverage for you.
I like this Nice job by Al Golan.

Speaker 4 (42:57):
Nice job by Al Goldon, who is working to get
the d back in His name was Josh Newton.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
There was was does Al win the award for showing
up first today? I didn't. I didn't catch it.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
I didn't get to see who was there first today?

Speaker 3 (43:07):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Man might have been me?

Speaker 3 (43:10):
Is Mike mills Mike, Sorry, guy, Mike Mills Man.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
You want to talk about it? Just a rough, disgruntled look, Mike,
just standing at those gates.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
I've seen that look before. Yep, all right.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
First hour of the AE Doran, Window, Tony and Mode
Training Camp Show is in the books.

Speaker 5 (43:30):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
A couple of things have come out nationally about the
NFL that I want your thoughts on. Number one, Mike
Sando's QB tiars Oh. The other are future rankings, including
what one NFL head coach had to say about what
the Bengals don't do with Joe Burrow. We'll get to
all of that when we come back. It's the AE
Dorn Window, Tony Moe Training Camp Show on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports teen.

Speaker 5 (43:51):
Thirty, w CQ want the fifty thousand Orange and Black
Home of the Cincinnati Cincinnati skis Glent fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
COMI from Bengals Training Camp. This is a special edision
of the Tony and Mo Football Show, brought to you
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the rest. Also by Cincinnati Tax Resolution powered by TOVE
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(44:20):
the sports, all the time, all at Oakley Greens. Now
from the airport, paint and body quality of yesterday, knowledge
of today broadcast area.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Here's Tony and Mo on.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
The second hour of a very special edition of the
Tony and Moe Training Camp Show on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Thanks to a door and window, they sell the best
and service the rest. Thanks to Adam Webber for sponsoring
this broadcast and supporting the Bengals all these many years.
Moegger and Tony Pike since e three sixty gets underway
at twelve noon. Bengals practicing indoors today. Evan mcphers and

(45:00):
dead line up for that seventy five yard field goal.
It was blocked.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
William Wagner. What a day he's having, oh Man.

Speaker 4 (45:08):
Some of the nicest snaps you'll see from a center
to a holder, from a center to a punter. William
Wagner says, this job's not done yet.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
Right, It's gonna put some pressure on cal Oudamidas.

Speaker 4 (45:24):
What a day today for William Wagner.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
Let's see a couple of things you may have missed
if you weren't with us at the top of the show.
Bj Hill is back at practice today, which is a
good thing. Jermaine Burton is accounted for. Zach Taylor said, yes,
he indeed is dealing with an injury working on the
rehab field today. Trey Henderson is not practicing. Tony didn't
see his car in the players parking lot this morning,

(45:52):
and that's pretty much what we have.

Speaker 4 (45:54):
How's Mike Kasicki doing a couple of days now of
not practiced? Kasiki not practicing today.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
Big on the unders closed injuries right now.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
You know, it's it's the it's the big difference between
the regular season and the preseason. Preseason. There's no injury report,
no designation, no official designation, So no Mike Kasicki again today,
among others. Geno Stone obviously not working out as well.
I am a big fan of Mike Sando's NFL QB tiers. Yes,

(46:21):
T I E R. S. I think this is the
way to rank quarterbacks because I think you could put
the absolute best in their own little bundle, and you
know that's that's good enough for me, and then within
that group you could argue who the absolute best is.
The point being you can't have a conversation about who
the best is without mentioning any one of those guys.

(46:42):
For the first time in his NFL career, Joe Burrow
was a unanimous Tier one QB.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
I'm not sure that's any bit of a surprise. I
would be shocked if there was one NFL And what
he does is he canvases coaches, personnel people, GM, scouts,
et cetera, and gets their feedback. I can put together
these tiers, has them vote. I think it would be
newsworthy if one person had Joe Burrow a Tier two QB.

Speaker 4 (47:06):
Yeah, unanimous. I think is it is the easiest way
to put it. I think if you were looking for
further indication, there was a an article that Dan Orlofsky
put together yesterday where he looked at quarterbacks in the
NFL and he charted seven different quarterback variables, seven different

(47:30):
traits that make quarterbacks who they are. Out of those
seven traits, Joe Burrow was the number one in four
of Orlovsky seven. He was, according to dan Orlofski, number
one in ball placement, number one in mechanics, number one
in decision making, and number one in pocket presence. Like,

(47:50):
I don't know what else locally or nationally you could
want to see from Joe Burrow and not have him
as the best or or tied for the best quarterback
in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Yeah. So I always put it this way, and I
think that's the conclusion you arrive at if you look
at the way or where dan Orlowski breaks it down.
I think he is the best in the NFL at
handling the mechanics of playing quarterback. This is obviously something
you can speak too well better than I can. I
think he is not the most accomplished, that's Patrick Mahomes.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
He's not the most athletic.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
He's not the most athletic. That's Lamar Jackson. But I
think he is the best in the league at this
moment at handling the mechanics of playing the position. Well.
If you're folding in the entire total package into one package.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
Well, just think about this. What you just said arm
strength Orlofsky has him at seven. He's not the most athletic.
He's not one. Although I do think he is sneaky athletic.
He's not going to make a ton of plays from
a rushing standpoint. Right, So, if you don't have the
strongest arm and you're not in the top ten and
rushing ability with quarterbacks, what does that say about you?

(49:00):
You just outline your mechanics are so much better than
everyone else. Your pocket presence, the ability to maneuver decision making,
getting the ball out when it needs to be, the
mechanics of not you know, compromising mechanics based on how
you're moving in the pocket and the placement of the ball.
Everything you want in a quarterback and would try to
do if you're building a quarterback from the ground up.

(49:21):
Joe Burrow is that, and again I think sneaky athletic.
I think has the ability. We saw it last year
with a touchdown run. He has the ability to run
when he wants to or needs to, but he wants
to throw. He wants to move the ball around. And
when you look at the tier rankings, that Sando did,
or you look at what Orlovsky did, They're all coming
to the same conclusion. And that is what we have

(49:42):
here in Cincinnati, in my opinion, is the best quarterback
in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
And I always feel like the arm strengths not so
much criticism, but people will ding him for that. The
arm is strong enough. Yeah, you know, that was my
thing coming out of college, Like, Okay, maybe he can't
throw the ball over the top of the stadium' him
to right, he can make every throw in NFL QB
has to make either in the pocket or on the run.
The arm talent, the arm strength, he doesn't have a noodle. Yeah,

(50:09):
it's fine, it's strong enough. Is that a fair way
to put it?

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (50:13):
Like, how many times in the NFL are you dropping
back sitting there patting the ball and throwing the ball
seventy yards right? Unless it's a hail Mary type situation,
that's just not built in in what you need to do.
Joe Burrow would rather get his work done, get his
footwork done, and get the ball to the receiver and
let him do the work.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
That's what a quarterback should do.

Speaker 4 (50:30):
So, you know, I think everything from those rankings add
up to exactly who and what Joe Burrow is. My
question for Sando is what's he have against Kenny Pickett.
Why's Kenny Pickett got his own tier?

Speaker 3 (50:43):
Because he hasn't been in the league for very long
and he's bounced around a little bit too much.

Speaker 4 (50:48):
Then just leave him off, don't even give him a tier.
Was there anyone that you saw that you were surprised
on that that the tier was maybe too high or
too low? Like, I'm still not don't. I don't agree
where Dak is. I still don't think he's a guy
that can lift everyone around him.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
Agreed, tier two?

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Yeah, they had him tier two. I think he's a
Tier three guy.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
Yeah, I don't entirely I don't entirely disagree. I there
was nothing that stood out to me as necessarily surprising.
You know that that Tier three Like Aaron Rodgers is interesting,
Trevor Lawrence is interesting, Bo Knicks is interesting, Drake May,
Caleb Williams, Bryce Young, because there's a lot of qbs

(51:29):
there that I think there's there's.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Room for movement up or down.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Yeah, right, Like you mentioned this to me if you
last week, Like Bryce Young when he came back the
Panthers last year was terrific. Drake May looks the part
in New England. He's why I think they're really really interesting.
Bo Knicks, we'll see bow Knicks to me has a
little Andy Dalton in him, which is the ceiling isn't
all that high. But he certainly had an encouraging rookie season.

(51:53):
Are we totally bailing on the idea that Trevor Lawrence
could be a true guy? Does Aaron Rodgers have a.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
I'm not on Trevor Lawrence.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
I'm not, but I think from his tier standpoint, this
is a season you either drop or you raise. Yeah, Like,
I'm so interested in Trevor Lawrence this year with Cohen
as his now head coach. I still think they've got
some weapons there. I'm very interested in watching what he's
going to do this year.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
I'm also I think one of the fun storylines in
the NFL this season is what does Jaden Daniels have
for an encore? Yeah, because he was at the top
of Tier two at the end of year one. If
you look at Mike Sando's rankings, he got seventeen Tier
one votes. He canvases fifty people, so basically thirty four

(52:42):
percent of the people that he talked to had Jayden
Daniels after one season as a Tier one guy in
that uppercross with Mahomes and Allen and Lamar, Matthew Stafford's
a Tier one guy and Joe Burrow as.

Speaker 4 (52:52):
Well, And I think there's so much about that that
you look at that year two now because there's been
I mean.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Where was CJ. Stroud last year?

Speaker 4 (53:00):
I mean there wasn't a stock higher right, and he
wasn't terrible last year, but it was very hard to
do an encore for what he did year one. Imagine
what that's gonna be for Jayden Daniels this year. I mean,
it's gonna be hard hard to do what you did
last year and replicate that again, especially now with an
offseason of teams being able to study you strengths, weaknesses,

(53:22):
maybe areas that you're vulnerable. You've got to work on
your game. So I think Jayden Daniels, along with those
other rookies, you know, a Drake may Bow Nicks, I
think it's fascinating to see what steps they take this year.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
C J. Shroud, by the way, for what it's worth,
got one Tier one vote. He got twelve Tier one
votes last season. A year ago, he was the talk
of the league.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
He was the Jayden Daniels right now.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
He was the Jade Daniels right now. And it didn't
necessarily take. Their offensive line was a mess. They had
injuries at the wide receiver spot, you know, and they're
dealing with skill skill position questions already during training camp.
I'm not sure they have entirely addressed their offense line issues.
We will see. I think it is striking though, that
he is tied with Jalen Hurts.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Yeah right.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
You know, we talked about this on the pregame show
on Thursday night. There's not a quarterback in the league
who feels like a better fit for his team's offense
than Jalen Hurts, which is you know that that being said,
that hurts.

Speaker 4 (54:19):
Jalen Tanner McKee. Maybe he's just a system guy.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Could be Jalen Hurts is more just assistant Tanner McKey
lighting up that al Golin.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Defense.

Speaker 4 (54:30):
All right, So that defense they are flying around the
ball today, unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
It is all over.

Speaker 4 (54:35):
If you were wondering how well the defense bounce, how
are they going to bounce back when they got punched
in the mouth.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
It feels like, it feels like and maybe maybe this
is what they're doing. I haven't countered.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
It feels like they have like thirteen guys on the
field at times. It does.

Speaker 4 (54:48):
They must have dumbed this down to a whole new level.
And these guys are just playing fast. They're just lining
up and running it. They're not They're not disguising anything.
They've got Burrow on his heels.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
And I think this defense is called tackle the guy
with the ball, which last year they could have used.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
Yes, Luanromo to put that in his playbook.

Speaker 4 (55:08):
Yeah, I think they are. Man, what a good day
of work so far for these guys on the field.
What a good day of work.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
Lewis Riddick writes this in ESPN's Future Power Rankings, where
they rank every NFL team. They use a formula gauging
every team's chances of success down the road. He writes this,
I have written about the offensive line for the past
two seasons, and I'm going to write about it again.
Nothing has changed with this unit. Regarding its mediocre play

(55:39):
as a unit of finished thirty second in pass block
win rate and thirtieth in run block win rate. The
Bengals are spending eighty six point five million dollars in
twenty twenty five on the wide receiver room, twenty million
dollars more than the next closest team. But it won't
mean anything if they can't get this offensive line situation
figured out. Yeah, that's I mean, that's a pretty obvious statement.

(56:03):
It has made its rounds on social media. Your reaction
to what Lewis Riddick said about the Bengals. It's the
offensive line. It's the truth. They're not good enough upfront.
They haven't been good enough upfront, and it continues to
be a question. And it's the one question that I
feel like can hold this team back from reaching their
ultimate goal. Is the offensive line.

Speaker 4 (56:24):
It like, the the numbers are there, Like, that's not
a made up statistic. It's not a stat that's you know, well,
that's it's perception. That's that's actual fact. They're worse than
past block win rate, their thirtieth and one run block
win win rate. They're spending all this money on the
wide receiver room, but they have run out there a

(56:46):
rookie who had a good first start and Dylan Fairchild,
and right now the other guard battle is Lucas Patrick,
who almost got Joe Burrow hurt the other night, and
Cody Ford, who's been a career backup.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
So here's the nugget that stood out to me more
than anything. What they do for all of these teams
is they list a reason for hope or reason for concern.
I just read that for you as it relates to
the Bengals. A nugget to no and a bold prediction.
Seth Walder is the ESPN Football Power Index guy. His
bold prediction to me was interesting because what he writes

(57:20):
is the Bengals will enter twenty twenty seven with better
Super Bowl odds than they have ever had in the
Borough era. The reality is that having two elite players
at the most important positions in the game, Burrow and Chase,
always gives this team a chance. That's been true even
when there are lackluster parts around them, such as the
shaky offensive line and a sometimes poorest defense. Just due

(57:43):
to the nature of randomness, players around the corps likely
will be better in a couple of years, and Burrow
and Chase will still be in their primes. So what's
interesting about that to me is we kind of frame
twenty twenty five is like the window is open, but
it's maybe not as open as it was two years ago. Sure,
seth Water takes a slightly different approach looking at twenty

(58:05):
twenty seven, is the year we're going into the season,
they will have their best odds of the borough ear
to win. The whole thing, that is, it's very optimistic
about parts that the Bengals are trying to fix right now.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
It's assuming that they're going to get it right, and
it's assuming that the picks they've made are getting it
right right. Like that's the thing to me, and we've
talked about this, the more you're spending on your key players,
the more focus and emphasis on what drafting right. So
that is assuming they nail the draft and they have
these rookie deals in other key positions and then they
can spend elsewhere as they go. Yeah, I think it is.

(58:41):
I think it's confident. I think there's a positivity to it.
But I think there's also a realization that we still
need to see some of these guys pan out. Miles
Murphy still needs to pan out, Joseph Seijin needs to
pan out. We've got to hope Samar Stewart and Demetrius Knight,
pan Out, Cam Taylor, Britt Dax Hill, all guys that
are coming into huge seasons. Is twenty twenty seven a
year that we're talking about Trey Hendrickson's got one final

(59:03):
ride with the Cincinnati Bengals or is he gone?

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Like?

Speaker 4 (59:06):
What what does that look like? What's the offensive line
up front look like? What is a Marius Mims turned into?
How else do they address the offensive line? There are,
in my opinion, a ton of questions that would need
to be answered. But yes, the window, I agree to
the corps. When you have Burrow and you have Chase,
there's always going to be a window.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
Watching an interesting drill right now where the Bengals Jake
Browning is running the offense and he's throwing passes with
his left hand.

Speaker 4 (59:30):
It's it's something that you don't see every day, but
there could come a scenario where maybe your right hand's
being held and you need to get the ball offep
or you're rolling to your left and you can't quite
get your body around to make the throw and you're
able to fling one just a couple of yards with
your left hand. It is it's one of those things.
The intricacies that you don't talk about being practiced. But

(59:50):
these guys, when we talk about they're leaving no stone unturned.
That's what today's practice has been. Really nice, tight spirals
with the lest we saw have him McPherson get a
REPI AD safety William Wagner has been dominant today.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Incredible.

Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
I think they're talking about moving more offensive linemen around,
giving them shots at other positions.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Yeah, I haven't seen as much of that.

Speaker 4 (01:00:11):
Yeah, well, it's hard to watch in the trenches on
every snap. Also, I also thought you mentioned, just to
kind of round off with the athletic and the QB tiers,
there was a quote, and I don't have it directly
in front of me, but a defensive coordinator defensive coach
said that essentially, the only way you're going to slow
down this offense is if you can get home with four,

(01:00:32):
which is what we've talked about all off Yeah, you
cannot commit five or six players to the line of
scrimmage and beat the Bengals. You have to be able
to rush and get pressure and get home with four
and slow down the run with four, and if so,
you do have a chance to stop it. But that
is That's how defensive coaches and coordinators are viewing this team.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
No doubt.

Speaker 4 (01:00:53):
If we can get home with four, we've got a
good chance. If not, we're going to leave ourselves vulnerable
in the back end.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
It is seventeen minutes after eleven o'clock. He's Tony Pike
on Moueger eighty dooran Window, Tonyan Mode Training Camp Show,
a special edition of the AE Door in Window Toni
and Mode Training Camp Show continues on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
You want to see basketball.

Speaker 5 (01:01:15):
Our ESPN fifteen thirty Orange and Black Hotline is built
by Racing Claire Roofing your Homes Trusted Problem Solver.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
Twenty one after eleven o'clock, It's the eight e Dooran
Window Tonyan Mode Training Camp Show on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Mullegar with Tony Pike since E three to sixty. Coming
up Tony and Austin at noon, and I'll be back
here today at three oh five. Tony will have hourly

(01:01:46):
training camp reports at three forty five, four to forty five,
and five forty five.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
I can't wait.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
It's going to be exciting.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
I can't wait.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
Lots to talk about lots to report on.

Speaker 4 (01:01:59):
How much time do you spend on the announcement that
was made that Taylor Swift will be joining Travis Kelsey
and Jason Kelcey on the New Heights podcast. I'm told
this could break the internet.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
Will this be the most listened to and watched podcast
of all time?

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
I think there's a good chance of it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
I don't know what the numbers are for the most
listened to her watch podcast of all time, but I'm
going to guess the answer is yes, because if you're
a New Heights listener, which is already a massively popular podcast,
you're gonna listen. Yeah, but you're gonna get a whole
lot of folks who have never listened to that podcast.
But it's Tay Tay. There's rumors that she's going to
announce a new album, make some news on that podcast,

(01:02:42):
tour new tour, perhaps maybe some personal news between her
and Travis. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Speculation is running wild. It's running ramp.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
I eight year old daughter said to me this morning,
Taylor Swift's going to be on a podcast, and yeah, honey,
I know. And then she said to me, what's a.

Speaker 4 (01:02:59):
Podcastest thing I feel like is obviously these are pre recorded.
Travis is at training camp. The staff and those behind
the scenes that have kept U under wraps deserve well.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
Do we know when it was done?

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
No, No, I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
I would imagine somewhat recently.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
It had to be recent, because I think Travis has
his like training camp haircut, So maybe last week, maybe
of the weekend, something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
The the teaser they put out there, the trailer, if
you will, I saw folks who clearly have never listened
to the New Heights podcast, who were already tweeting about
how excited they were to actually listen. Yeah, that's that's
a pretty I'm guessing Taylor Swift has never appeared on
a podcast before.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
I don't believe. So this is a big deal.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
It's a huge deal.

Speaker 4 (01:03:45):
This is a big deal, and it's nice that we
can talk about this in the setting of where we
are right now.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
No question about you know, football, football, hard hardcore foot
pads pop and dj Ivy just was beaten on a play,
unfortunately there by andre Yoshi Vash who made a nice
play on the ball, great route, great timing from Joe Burrow,
looked like a pretty clean pocket, good good footwork there.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
From Dylan Fairchild. Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
Nice. Yeah, well, hopefully there's more of that you have.
Austin tells us he has the most viewed podcast of
all time. Austin, go ahead and give us those statistics.

Speaker 6 (01:04:19):
I have like the top ten here, many of them
are Joe Rogan podcasts, or the top Joe Rogan podcast
of all time was with Elon Musk sixty nine million
YouTube viuse I was not among them. There was one
here called how to Succeed in Relationships with Yasir Al
Hazuami one hundred and forty four million YouTube?

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
Man am I I might? When was that's on YouTube?

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
I might watch that one. Okay, very good. So the
New Heights with Taylor Swift has to get to sixty
nine million pretty much?

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Good? All right?

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
How cool would that be if they did that at
you see?

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
That'd be a good one. That would be a good.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
There were many who when Jason and Travis did their
podcast a year ago. You see the fifth Thursday Joe
Burrow Orlando Brown, It's really cool event. There are a
lot of folks who thought that, you know, maybe Taylor's
going to show up for that.

Speaker 4 (01:05:12):
Remember the rumor that was like the Kenwood Mall. Watch
when a Bengal player would come in for a visit, Like,
all right, I think Taylor's here, right, Taylor?

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
So you know the Bengals or the Bearcats are going
to be in Kansas City two weeks from thursday.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
I hope I will be.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
I would imagine that Travis Kelsey will be at that game.
Surely will Taylor?

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
Will they give Taylor some Bearcat here? You want to
talk about something that can help the brand? Get her
and me and you some some UC geary and do
we think.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Taylor might may be a sideline hit?

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
You get Taylor on the show, you know the Scott
Springer years ago when he was on the sideline once
got Aretha Franklin on the air from the Motor City Bowl. Yeah,
you could do a sideline hit with with Taylor Swift.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
Yea that it be cool.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
She's at the game. Yeah, you know, I'm gonna broadcast
my show from Arrowhead Stadium. I heard that maybe I
can get her wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:06:06):
I'm hoping to be at the game, That's what I hope.
I'm hoping to be there. I'm hopefully you are hoping
to be working in some capacity. But we'll see you know,
I think people there are busy times around here, and yeah,
you know, we got plenty of time to iron out
details or sure or maybe you know, make things official.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
Two weeks from Thursday. Yep, Bearcats by Nebraska. Yes, yes,
very good. It is a nice run from somemaj. Wow,
it looks We even talked about TODJ. Brooks.

Speaker 4 (01:06:34):
Gary Brightwell got a lot of love from the preseason game.
He looked good, looked explosive. We know what Chase Brown is.
Somaj P Runs hit himself a very quiet but good
practice today.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
Good practice for samaj p Run and needed because of
all the buzz surrounding the two guys that bracket him
on the depth chart. You know, Chase Brown had a
really really nice game on Thursday, running in receiving the football.
And then TODJ. Brooks, the guy we're both really high
on was.

Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
With Charlie Jones picked up right where he left off
today as well by nice preseason game.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
Charlie Jones not talked about it all this offseason, and
I think understandably, so there's starting to be some Charlie
Jones buzz, Tony buzz.

Speaker 4 (01:07:13):
He's a guy that essentially is able to do what
we've talked about the Jermaine Burton role. He's been a
solid special teams contributor. He's been a solid return guy,
and in the first opportunity again not only with the
ones because he did make some catches with Joe Burrow
in there, but with the twos and threes as well.
I thought had a nice night. Three catches, forty one yards.

(01:07:33):
He was targeted six times, which tells you from a
target standpoint, they're trying to get him the balls, the
second most targets of any Bengal in that Philadelphia game.
So I read into it what you want, but he
wasn't talked about a lot, and I thought had a
very solid, solid first preseason game.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
And continuing with today's workout inside the bubble.

Speaker 4 (01:07:53):
He's been great today. You know, he's been everything you want.
You know, a number two, number three team receiver to be,
carries himself the right way, makes the most of each
Repu's able to get.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
It's twenty eight minutes after eleven o'clock. Just like you
and I, It's the A Door and Window Tonyan Mode
training cam show. Thanks to A Door and Window. Also
Oakley greens All the Sports all the time. Also our
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It's the Adorn window Tonian Mode Training Cam show till
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Speaker 3 (01:09:27):
DQ twenty nine away from noon. This is the Ae
Dorn Window, Tony and Mode training Camp show on ESPN
fifteen thirty Moegger and Tony Pike. That is uh since
he three p sixty is coming up at noon. Our
guy Austin Elmore informs us the Tyson Anderson taking the
uh first team reps in safety with no Geno Stone

(01:09:50):
during today's workout.

Speaker 4 (01:09:52):
Look like peyton Thorn just got the best of Tyson man.
You just coccused him. Wow, just pick picked them. Yeah,
so uh, something to keep an eye on. Peyton Thorn
maybe trying to make a last second push, but it
seems like the writing's on the wall for him.

Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
It has seemed like that since dand he's.

Speaker 4 (01:10:09):
Putting together some good film right now. No question about
starting safety in the NFL. And Tyson Anderson.

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
Yep he uh here comes chedor Sanders.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
We discussed this.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
A little bit in the afternoon yesterday, but it's worth
talking about. This is an enormously important season for Miles Murphy.
So this is a big, big preseason for Miles Murphy. Yeah,
Thursday was not a very encouraging sign if you're hoping
for big things this season for Miles Murphy.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Yeah, you know, it's giving.

Speaker 4 (01:10:46):
He's been giving the opportunity to get starter reps and
do the most with him, and unfortunately he's just not
been able to do anything with him to this point.
You know, he there comes a time where you have
to start thinking about, Okay, how many more reps, how
many more opportunities are you going to give people? And
you know, fortunately for Miles Murphy, it's not a very

(01:11:06):
deep defensive endroom, so you're going to continue to get
reps and opportunities. But in the theme of what they
were trying to do preseason game one, dumb it down,
run based stuff that gives you a chance to win
one on one battles. And for Miles Murphy, you're going
against second and third team guys and when the dust
settled on the night, he had two assisted tackles.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
That was his stat line. Yeah, you can't.

Speaker 4 (01:11:29):
That can't be the number you put up against second
and third team players and expect to have a big
role with this team. He is the It's the perfect
definition of looks like Tarzan plays like Jane at times
because physically you walk onto a practice field and you say,
my goodness, like that is from the physical attributes. Everything's there,
It's just not been put together, and you wonder how

(01:11:52):
much more time he has to put things together.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
If you knew nothing about Miles Murphy and you knew
nothing about Shamar Stewart and you watch them both play isolated,
both of them on Thursday night, you would not know
that Shamar Stewart was the guy playing in his first
NFL game and Miles Murphy was the guy who's been
in the league for a couple of years. Yeah, Shamar
Stewart looked disruptive, was disruptive. Miles Murphy the exact opposite.

Speaker 4 (01:12:15):
Yeah, and it it brings a long line now of
similar questions that we've talked about about this Bengals defense.
You know, Al Golden came in and there are a
lot of folks that said, you still need to make additions,
and they didn't, and they're counting on, you know, a
leap with a new coach and a new scheme. If
you just go down the list, Miles Murphy, Joseph Osai,

(01:12:38):
Geno Stone, Cam Taylor, Britt Dax Hill. You know you
drafted Dimitrius Knight, you drafted Shamar Stewart, you drafted two
years or a year ago, McKinley, Jackson, and Chris Jenkins.
There are seven, eight, nine, ten guys on this defense
that will play that you have to either rely on
in the future you have to figure out if you're
going to get anything out of them. That's not an

(01:12:58):
enviable position to be if you're going if you've got
two of those guys right, they say, hey, this is
a year we got to figure out this guy and
this guy. You could make that argument for seven or
eight different guys on this defense. That is a tall
task for a new defensive court.

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
Now, how many players who are on this year's defense
that were here last year had good seasons? Right? Trey Hendrickson,
Joseph Osai came on kind of at the ends, Logan
Wilson was not atrocious, but left a little bit to
be desired in the secondary. Literally nobody, no, everybody got

(01:13:35):
benched at some point, like, here's what I want to
know about this defense because everybody is defaulting to the
same position and I have as well. They've just got
to be league average right the ceiling. They don't have
to have a top five defense. Well you do in
the fourth quarter when you're up by four and the
other guy has the ball with a buck ten to.

Speaker 4 (01:13:53):
Go, Like how many times last year, you need to
get a stop to get your offense the ball back.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
Right like last year. Any games kind of came down
to that right where it's get a stop and you win,
or get a stop and you give Burrow a chance.

Speaker 4 (01:14:05):
Like the Ravens games every time I just said, okay,
just one stop, the Washington get just one stop.

Speaker 3 (01:14:09):
The Chargers game like a ton of them last year,
where it's they need to make a play right now,
either get a turnover, get off the field, give Burrow
a chance, or seal the game for Joe Burrow. And
they they rarely did it. And so what I My
biggest question about this year's defense is the Bengals are
are probably gonna play in a lot of close games
this year, even ones where the defense isn't great because

(01:14:32):
the offense is awesome. Is the defense going to be
able to rise to the occasion at precisely the right
point and if the answer is yes, who are you
counting on and make plays? Now? I feel like Trey
Hendrickson is still a guy you go, you know what,
This dude's gonna get a sack at the right time.
But beyond that, who you got right? Who you got
in the fourth quarter that you go on defense. That
dude's gonna go and make a one on one play.

(01:14:53):
That guy is gonna go seal the game for us.
That guy's gonna do something that gives Joe Burrow a chance.
So you could say they've just got to be league average,
but in moments in the fourth quarter, they're gonna have
to be even better.

Speaker 4 (01:15:04):
And they have an opportunity early in the season to
rewrite the wrongs of previous years because how the schedule
plays out right, defensively, you should win against the Browns. Defensively,
I know it's we talked about Trevor Lawrence. It's game
two with a new head coach, new system, new offense.
Travis Hunter is still getting his feet wet. You should

(01:15:24):
still win Game two. You shouldn't let the Jaguars come
in here and put up thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:15:28):
They should be and all the vikings.

Speaker 4 (01:15:31):
You're gonna face a rookie quarterback, and they're not gonna
have Jordan Addison yet, right, so you go, Okay, Justin
Jefferson probably the top head coach in the National Football League.
That's still a tall task, but you're you're not playing
the greatest show on turf. From an offensive standpoint, then
you get another rookie year two, not a rookie, but
year two of bon Nicks. Good defense, but you should

(01:15:53):
start with two minimum three wins to get the season going.
And it's not like you're playing offenses. They're going to
rewrite the record books. I think Kevin O'Connell's the best
coach in the NFL. I think I think from a
coach standpoint, I think he I think getting his guys
and getting the most out of him, I think he is.

Speaker 3 (01:16:12):
I'm not sure i've heard any there are certainly no
shortage of people who think he's a terrific coach. And
if you remember he was this closed to be in
a free agent of the NFL.

Speaker 4 (01:16:19):
I mean what he did last year with Sam Donald
over the course of I mean they were up until
the melt down at the end of the year talking
about them having a one seed, you know, so I
do I think he gets so much out of I
think he gets the most out of the least on
the roster. I mean that roster was they made some
they moved on from cousins. You bring in Sam Donald,

(01:16:40):
it felt like a wash year, and then you're not
gonna have McCarthy, and all of a sudden they're competing,
you know, in in that that the NFC, I do.
I think McConnell is up there right at the top.

Speaker 3 (01:16:53):
What the the Bengals are doing now, And this is
probably one of those things they would prefer we not
share with the audience. But you know, so we're watching
this great training camp practice. Al Golden is working on
the situation of football here on defense where they try
to sneak a twelfth guy onto the field yea.

Speaker 4 (01:17:11):
To see if the referees they're going to have to
because the offense has kind of had their way today.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
I don't know if you heard it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:15):
They're a little yelling in the background, but Joe Burrow
was just able to get the defense to jump off
sides that hard count that you heard there, and then
the whistle blew and that's when Al Golden is now
trying to implement a twelfth man with the officials. That
is a thing in football. I think we need to
make it clear that that's talking about fans. People often
talk about Seattle's twelfth man. They're not sneaking twelve on.

(01:17:37):
They use the fans as their twelfth man. But maybe
when you are trying to earn d D back in
your name.

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
Burks is the twelfth GUYE And with some of the
officials that practice, they're working on some diversionary tactics.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
Yep, I get to pay attention.

Speaker 4 (01:17:52):
The splits of these defensive linemen is incredible because you
you almost they almost blend together. Instead of four, they're
five in there, but they're only taking up the spot
of four, so it doesn't jump out to the officials.
And their bodies are so close it is hard to
count a minute.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
They got caught.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:18:10):
One of the officials noticed the twelfth guy.

Speaker 4 (01:18:12):
But listen, if you're not trying practice, if you're not trying,
and then what's the point, right.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
I mean it's something lou Anoumo could have tried last year. Yeah,
especially in that game against Pittsburgh.

Speaker 4 (01:18:22):
I heard lou Anarumo talk to Kay Adams yesterday and
say that Trey Hendrickson's a young thirty. I would like
to be described as a young thirty nine. He's really
a young thirty nine.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
If I was, if I was lou Anarumo, I'm not
sure I'd be nuts about being asked questions about a
player on the team that.

Speaker 4 (01:18:43):
I used to come He was asked about coming back
to Cincinnati who he wanted to read, and he said
Mike Brown, and then was asked about Trey Hendrickson and
went into thirty forty five seconds about how great Trey
is and things like that, and ultimately you can just say, well,
he's not here. I'm focused on the guys that I
have that i'm coaching. Great question, but I'm really worried
about what's here in this locker room.

Speaker 3 (01:19:03):
I appreciated the answer, and I appreciated, you know, what
he said, and I think for the most part what
he said was fairly accurate. I just I've seen nothing
of that interview that is related to the team that
Lou currently coaches. Yeah, and I don't think there's.

Speaker 4 (01:19:17):
Probably because they have on the other side of the ball,
they have a battle between two or four quarterbacks.

Speaker 3 (01:19:22):
Ask Lou about that.

Speaker 4 (01:19:23):
Ask Lou about his Your defense has looked great thus
far in training, Cami, Well, you see who I'm going
against on a daily basis.

Speaker 3 (01:19:29):
I say they're working there on like taking a guy
off the field to somebody, some ex rest. We only
need ten it's nineteen, yeah, from twelve noon.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:19:35):
The NNA Rumo things or that the Hendrickson things interesting
because I haven't seen anything from practice today that would
say he's out there last week, what was the thing
he's out there, he's working with the guys today. I
haven't heard any of that. And I asked a question
last week. What happens if it doesn't get done? What
happens if it gets to next week or the week
of the Washington game. Is Trace still going to be

(01:19:58):
the great teammate and out there working hands on? Or
is he eventually going to say listen, if we're no closer,
then I need to dig my heels back in.

Speaker 3 (01:20:06):
Well, here's what I wonder like at times during this
entire process, he just hasn't been able to help himself,
most notably at that mini camp practice where he showed.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
Us thought that's what he was doing today. Yeah, he
was going to come and talk to us today.

Speaker 3 (01:20:21):
So the first game is let's see three weeks from Sunday,
so there's still some time.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
But are we going to get to a point where
Trey who.

Speaker 3 (01:20:30):
I think it's fair to say it feels like he
has been making this up as he has gone along
this entire back and forth with him and the Bengals.
Is is he going to get to a point where
he's like, all right, I'm gonna pop off again. Yeah,
I'm gonna say I'm gonna speak my mind again.

Speaker 4 (01:20:44):
I've done the teammate stuff. I've been here, I've helped others.
I've stayed quiet. Nothing's getting done, nothing's getting further accomplished.
Now I've got a resort back to this. That would
be my curiosity.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Jordan Battle just picked off Joe Burt.

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
Oh my god, that's actually a thing that happened.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
Oh that's real, that's real.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
First interception in eleven on eleven for Joe Burt. Jordan
Battle a safety, A safety in the red zone.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
Drill. Well, they got to be good in the red zone.

Speaker 3 (01:21:18):
Yeah, Jordan Battle, that's a better safety. Play the other safety,
Jordan Battle.

Speaker 4 (01:21:24):
I scrap everything I said. Burrow's got to play three
quarters against Washington turned the ball over in the red zone.

Speaker 3 (01:21:29):
That just for the benefit of anybody who's hanging on
every word of this, that is something that actually did
happen in.

Speaker 4 (01:21:35):
Prose just a few minutes ago. Yes, that is an
actual report. Yes, Jordan Battle has intercepted Joe Burrow in.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
The red defense only had eleven guys on the feet.
The defense is winning.

Speaker 3 (01:21:44):
It is dominating to day sixteen away from twelve noon
since he three to sixty coming up after the top
of the hour. It's the eighty Doorn Window, Tony and
Mode Training Camp Show on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports
Station from the Durban Heating tempt twelve the way from twelve.
It's the Aidorn Window, Tony and Mo Football Show on

(01:22:05):
ESPN fifteen thirty Moegger and Tony Pike. We have another
edition of the ae Dorn Window Training Camp Show tomorrow
at ten o'clock and then in a final one on Friday.

Speaker 2 (01:22:17):
Yes, will be better than this.

Speaker 3 (01:22:20):
By the way, Jeremy Fowler of ESPN tweets out that
he believes that what Jermaine Burton is dealing with is
a knee issued Zach Taylor today said that Jermaine had
some swelling. I don't know that he specified knee or not.
Jermaine was on the rehab field inside the bubble today
and got done with his workout and then joined the

(01:22:40):
fellow his fellow wide receivers on the main practice field,
but he was not going through drills. Bengals working out
inside today.

Speaker 4 (01:22:47):
Okay, there we go. Bengals have been and you hate
to even talk. They've been relatively healthy compared to what
do you see the rest of the NFL dealing with
right now? Yeah, Rashaan Slater is out for the year.

Speaker 3 (01:22:58):
My understanding is in love is yeah to Ligaman Bangeda's thumb.
I think on a helmet if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 4 (01:23:04):
Yeah, so he's got ah that happened at a practice
right He's having the surgery today, expected to be back
for their season opener.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
Hopes to be back for their season opener.

Speaker 4 (01:23:13):
The Baltimore Ravens have lost two draft picks in their
secondary to season ending lower body injuries. Yep, uh, there
is just from a from a training camp standpoint. When
you mentioned Raven Isaiah likele is out. They've dealt with
a lot. Cowboys have a ton of injuries right now.
I think generally, the Bengals are in at least a
good spot for August twelfth, A good spot there.

Speaker 3 (01:23:34):
Yeah, I mean, look, there's there are players who are
missing practice. The Gino Stone situation is going to be
worth monitoring. You would love to have gasiki, but it
feels like knocked on wood. There's two preseason games to
go and tons of training camp practices between now and
September the seventh. But but as as training camp injuries go,
it feels like the Bengals are dealing with some pretty

(01:23:54):
routine stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
Yeah, they're in it. I feel like they're in a
good spot there.

Speaker 3 (01:23:58):
They're in a good spot. We'll be watching the Geno
Stone thing. We'll be watching anything that happens with any
injuries on the offensive line.

Speaker 4 (01:24:08):
What do we make of the opportunity coming up? And
we'll talk as we get closer to the game. But
from an offensive line standpoint, what's the next box they
need to check? It would be against once. Yeah, I
don't know if we know for sure, but I would
assume Washington's going to play some of their starters or
get their starters some reps early in that game. That

(01:24:31):
to me is the biggest remaining question.

Speaker 3 (01:24:35):
I would like to watch Joe Burrow play. If he
plays the entire half, give me ninety of his passing
snaps where he stands there in a clean pocket. And
that might be a little bit too much to ask,
but that to me is the ultimate barometer. Right Like
we can discuss, well, they've got to be better run blocking.
Is Joe Burrow on the run less? And does he

(01:24:57):
get hit less frequently?

Speaker 5 (01:24:58):
So?

Speaker 3 (01:24:59):
Can you get through game where you know Joe just
enjoys a clean pocket and does what he does enjoys
a clean pocket, is rarely on the run, doesn't have
to do anything necessarily off script. Could I get that
for the duration of his time in the game against Washington?

Speaker 4 (01:25:13):
Yeah, I mean for what it's worth. If you look
at other teams across the league right now, the Detroit
Lions have twenty four players out right now. I mean
that's yeah, twenty four players makes up a big percentage
of your roster. So it is I think it's a
good spot that they're in. It shows how they've been
managing the offseason and camp to this point is how

(01:25:35):
are they been doing that is working. But as you've
been able to hear today, this has to easily be
their most physical problem. I mean, these pads have been
popping from the time we came on at ten to
where we are right now, they have been They've been
a lot of thud today here at practice spirited.

Speaker 3 (01:25:55):
Now. Our friend Laurel Failer, who by the way, has
an awesome f Seasonincinnati newsletter, is covering Bengals practice today
and she reports that Miles Murphy pops up limping, tried
to stay in for the next play still hobbling, and
then after that snap came off the field.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:26:13):
She also reports that she hasn't seen DJ Turner in
team drills today, So do what you want with that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
Don't much of a DJ Turner in being there at all.

Speaker 3 (01:26:23):
In coverage when we have been there, DJ Turner has
had a rough time.

Speaker 4 (01:26:30):
If as as we've seen throughout the time we've been there,
and if Miles Murphy, we'll see what the update is
on him. We saw the defensive line played in in
preseason game number one. There's been nothing. If you're Trey
Hendrickson's camp that is going to tell you, okay, we
need to give in a little bit, right he holds

(01:26:53):
all the leverage. This defense got gashed against twos and
threes while he was on the sidelines, Like that is
AMMO for Trey Hendrickson. If Miles Murphy and Joseph o'side
don't do something, that is more ammo for Trey Hendrickson.
And again if if you're his side, Hey, Trey's been there,

(01:27:15):
he's been a model teammate. He's doing everything that you
need him to do. We need to get something done,
but you need him, you need Trey hendricks far.

Speaker 3 (01:27:24):
Yes, that's I just don't know the concessions that'll be made.
It's a it's it's guarantee him more money, more years.
I mean, that's what That's what it is. Go back
to the very first time we talked about this, which
was before last season ended. Your defense last year was bad.
You had one really good player. Can you take your

(01:27:44):
defense from bad too much better without that player there? Yeah,
I don't know how the answer is yes.

Speaker 2 (01:27:51):
That's yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:27:53):
I don't see how they can do it, right especially
you're already asking a lot of Al Golden You're asking
a lot and and rightfully because of the players we
just brought up. Sure that you have to decide on
this year. The one sure thing that this defense had
was Trey Hendricks.

Speaker 3 (01:28:08):
I guess for me, if there's there are a lot
of folks who still feel like this has an inevitable
outcome where the Bengals go ahead and give Trey more
guaranteed years, and then he signs the deal, he shows up,
he plays the first game. Hopefully he's where he needs
to be for the first game. Like, if that is
the inevitable outcome, why do we have to go through

(01:28:30):
all this correct to arrive at that outcome? Why couldn't
you arrive at that outcome weeks ago, months ago?

Speaker 4 (01:28:34):
Yeah, speaking of outcomes, normally around this time, our guy,
Jim Mourning from the Holy Grail takes care of us. Yes,
just message hey, you know, taking your guy's order. Now
we have to let Jim know that we're not there,
which means he doesn't get to feed us today. Probably
good for them, bad for us because I was looking
forward to I was looking for to Holy Grail food.

Speaker 3 (01:28:59):
We'll see what can work out, all right, since he
three to sixty is going to come your way at
twelve o'clock, Tony Pike.

Speaker 4 (01:29:05):
We've got Joe Daniman's going to join us today. Okay,
we've got some Zach Taylor audio all right, and uh
more from Bengals training camp, and unfortunately got to dip
our toes in a little bit to what happened at
the ballpark.

Speaker 3 (01:29:17):
Austin Elmoar jumps in with Tony for the next three hours.
I am back at three o'clock.

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
Did you see Snoop last night?

Speaker 3 (01:29:22):
I did not. This is the eighty Dor and Window
Tony and mo Training Camp Show on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station

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