October 23, 2025 • 15 mins
Tony and Austin talk Bengals/Jets with John Sheeran from A to Z Sports on ESPN 1530!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Pike Cincy three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in
part by Cimcy Shirts, Cincy Shirts, All Cincy, all Day.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Shout out to the folks at Cincy Shirts. Welcome to
our number two, Cincy three sixty. Thank you for joining us.
Your talkback's coming up in just a few moments. We'll
still talk some Wes Miller and UC basketball later on
an hour number three, we'll read and react. We'll look
ahead to the college and NFL slate coming up starting
tonight at the NFL level as well. But before we
(00:36):
do any of that, let's go to our guy from
ADAZ Sports covering the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
John Sharon is with us. What's up, John?
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Hey, Tony, Good to talk to you again, man.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Always always good to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
John. Before I even talk to you about the Cincinnati Bengals,
how about these Cincinnati Bearcats. Are you buying what the
Bearcats are putting together right now? And are you buying
the Bearcats as Big twelve contenders?
Speaker 5 (00:58):
I really don't want too, but I also really really
want to, So you know what, I'm just gonna I'm
just gonna let go.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
I'm gonna let go. I'm gonna let them hurt me again.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
You know, I've put off these walls. They're tearing down
right now.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
I'm just I'm just going with it.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
We'll see what they do against Utah and a coup
in I guess a week or so.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Ye. Yeah, I'm just like, let's just ride out. Let's
just see what happens.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Take care of business against a very talented offense on Saturday,
and uh, and see what happens on the road in
Utah against a good squad.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
We know what happened last Thursday, Bengals pick up a
win against the Steelers. Joe Flacca was amazing. He is
now the darling based on his press conference from yesterday
where it feels like so many people can relate to
what Joe Flacca was talking about as it relates to
the field. John, Where did you see the ability for
Joe Flacco to have as much success as he did.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
I think the more time on TAC that he had
in practice with his receivers, the better the timing was.
And I just think it's so impressive how quickly he
was able to get the ball out of his ends.
But also to be able to push the ball down
the field and hit some of those windows and some
of those in breaking routes to either Jamar Chase or
t Higgins. So the offensive line looked better because the
(02:08):
ball was getting out quicker, but also he knew where
to go with the ball.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
And I think that's just what the Bengals had.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
Envisioned with bringing in a new quarterback instead of Drake
Jake grinding, someone who played on time and just you
didn't have to be he doesn't have to be completely accurate,
didn't have to have Joe Burrow type accuracy to make
this offense work, but recognizing when he's got when the
receivers have inside leverage and knowing that you know those
windows are going to open up in a fraction of
a second, and getting the ball out and just still
(02:34):
putting it on, you know, on other guy's hands, like
they're some of the best hands catchers in the NFL.
So it's just it's all about just making sure that
you're into on time and then rhythm, and.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
That's just how you had that success.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
And obviously, you know, the Steelers did him a favor
by just spamming man coverage over and over again, and
just not really adjusting.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
In that regard, and that's kind of how that day happened.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
But I was very impressed by how well he played
on time and in rhythm throughout.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
The entire game. That's just what allowed the consisten success
to keep blowing.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
You mentioned the Steelers playing man coverage. I was surprised.
Not only that, but when you think about a team
playing man, you think that they're committing more to the
box to stop the run. And yet Chase Brown ran
for nine point eight yards of carry. They ran it
as a team for six point two yards per carry.
Anything that you can point to as to why they
were all of a sudden able to find success on
the ground, I.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Think the blocking was just better.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
I think they found some concepts with flatko under center,
because obviously the Bengals run game with Burrow, it's been
mostly in the pistol around the shotgun because he doesn't
have as much comfort, you know, under center. But Joe Flacco,
obviously he's played a long time, he's been around that
scheme a while, and I think he finds some comfort
in it, and they can kind of marry the pass
and run game a little bit coming out from that formation,
(03:45):
and you know, they were able to kind of stretch
the Steelers out a little bit horizontally, and I think
dol Rytherner had a good game walking next to Rounda
Brown junior, and that opens up some holes for Chase Brown.
So you know, the Steelers, we talked about it with
Austin last week. They're really aggressive and how they defend
the run. Sometimes they can get a little bit over aggressive,
and I think the Bengals just found a nice rhythm
and flow with some of the concepts that they had
under center, and that's what led to that succeps. It
(04:06):
didn't really matter where in the game it was, or
the Bengals were up, or if they were trailing or
anything like that.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I think walking was just better.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
You mentioned Dalton Risner. Zach Taylor has not announced or
won't announced exactly who his starting guards are going to be.
Do you expect there to be a short leash for
those guys and the Bengals kind of keep rolling through
whoever they feel like he's playing good at the moment.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
Yeah. I was a bit surprised that Riisner got the
start last week, considering that Fairchild he seemed to be practicing.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
And able to play, and he was active.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
I think it was more just the fact that it
was a short week and Fairchild was coming off that
knee injury, and maybe they didn't think they had enough
time to actually practice enough to play. But then Riisner,
you know, he's a natural left guard, that's where he's
played ninety percent of his snaps, and I think he
looked better there compared to right guards in some of
those first couple weeks where he was starting. I would
imagine that Fairchild is going to take that spot back
(04:56):
now that he's fully healthy, just because I don't think
he was playing bad enough to warrant being benched, and
I think they value Risner just being the guy that
can fill in either spot in a pinch if some
guy gets hurt.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
I'm really interested to see in the least with Jan Rivers.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
I think that's a case where they really liked what
he did in preseason, and then the first chance that
they felt like he deserved in the regular season in
Week four, that he got that chance, and I don't
think they wanted to take him out until maybe something
drastic happens. But I would imagine that we're going to
see both rookies out there this week when they're both healthy,
and maybe it's just about giving Rivers a little bit
(05:31):
more time to see if he can kind of stabilize himself,
and if not, then that's where you have Lucas Patrick
or Dalton Riisers to fill in for that spot.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
One other thing on the offense, and then I'll switch
it over the defensive side of the ball. You mentioned
Joe Flacco and the ability to go under center in
the running game. We've seen this now from different sample sizes.
When Jake Browning took over years ago, they did found
some success, find some success in the running game, and
a lot of it was drawn to the under center run.
I know that Joe Burrow doesn't want to get under
(06:00):
center much. You watch what he did at LSU. They
were rarely ever under center. When it comes down to
Zach's scheme versus what Joe Burrow wants to do. How
did those conversations eventually go, Because I wonder if if
Zach has tried to do more under center, and you
speculate as if Joe doesn't want to do that and
just wants to stay and gun, or how do you
(06:22):
think that dynamic works or needs to adapt when Joe
Burrow is healthy to find success in the running game.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Still.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
You know Zach Taylor, we knew that he came from
the Shaw McBay coaching tree, and that entire offense is
just based off of being under center and just having
blue legs and playoff packing wide zone. And we saw
that the first year that Taylor was here in twenty
eighteen with Amy Dalton, and we knew that the offense,
like you said that Burrow was coming from with Joe Brady,
(06:51):
it didn't really feature any of that, and it tried
to maximize the strengths of that offense with its receivers
in the past game and the ability for Burrow to
examine in the defense from the gun, to never turn
his back from what the defense is showing him, and
to know where the ball is supposed to go at
all times, which is how he can operate behind a
bad offensive line and he can just still have an
(07:12):
efficient day out there even without a reliable running game,
because it is hard to find a reliable running game
when you're never under center, right, So that's always been
the weird thing that they've tried to balance. And I
think Taylor and his offense is in a scheme has
really adjusted to what Burrow does well. But it is
hard to sustain that success over years and years because
eventually the defenses are going to be able to pick
up on it and it's just easier to defend because
(07:34):
there's not as much the diversity into a lot more
predictable to defend against. So I think the conversations has
always been how can they maximize Burrow because he's the
most valuable person in that building, and they want to
make sure that he plays it as his best and
he's in a scheme that maximizes that.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
But it's always been a weird thing to balance in.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
Terms of trying to do what is best for just
you know, countering what defenses are doing to you, but
also making sure that you're not putting him in a
position where he's not like at his best. So I
think when we see sometimes when different quarterbacks are in
there and they have different strengths, sometimes we see different aspects
of the offense, and that's kind of what we're seeing
right now.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
How do you characterize what's going on on the defensive
side of the ball right now? We have talked for
weeks now, John about at times, Logan Wilson's snap count,
Cam Taylor Britt is now a healthy scratch. It feels
like at points there they're going to the young guys,
They're giving them as many opportunities as possible. Yet at
the same time guys are being held accountable. But Gino
Stone is still playing a lot and he struggled at times.
(08:31):
So how do you categorize what you're seeing on the
defensive side of the ball as a whole?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
With Al Golden, I don't.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Think it's too dissimilar to when lu Narumo first took over.
After you know, the coaching change there, we remember, like
obviously what happened. Carlo has done that right, Like that
was a guy that was phased out, someone who is
well respected in the locker room, and unfortunately you notice
the difference of what the defense the new defensive corner
is falling it. And I think that's kind of what
we're seeing.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
A little bit with Al Golden and Logan Wilson and
some other guys as well.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
It came to the Brick could be another example as well,
even though he was benched obviously by the previous if
that's the coordinator, so again it's it is still surprising
to see what is happening with Wilson, but I think
that's just the reality that they're accepting and they deemed
that Bear Carters is.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Better in that role.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
And I think in general, this defense is still really
trying to find himself and just really they're capitalizing on
the times when they do find the ball, and like
their best games have been when they can capitalize on
turnovers and when they can you know, really make the
most of those opportunities. It is still a matter of
trying to find consistency in terms of getting stops when
(09:36):
they need to.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
That's what they did against Pittsburgh at the end of.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
The day and at the end of that game, and
that's how they were able to get their offensive chance
to kind of win them at the end. But yeah,
it's still, I think, very much of a work in
progress of figuring out which players are best there.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
And with Gino Stone it.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
Is tough to put a new safety in there and
try to make sure that the communication is, you know what,
the same as it is. So you know, I think
Stone Neat still needs to just prove it himself and
be more consistent, But it meant something that he was
he's still here and that they brought him back and
retained it, even just by the pay cut.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
I do wonder, you know, I saw there's the back
and forth this week about preparing for Tyrod Taylor or
preparing for Justin Fields. I know that's difficult, and you
can speak to maybe what that challenge presents itself for
the Bengals and not really knowing who's going to be
the quarterback. But against a team like the Jets who
are struggling in the passing game, could you make the
point that maybe now would be a good opportunity to
(10:31):
give someone else an opportunity if if it's not the
most elite passing game you're going to go against on Sunday.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
I think the counter actually makes a lot more sense
if you.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
I mean, obviously there's.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
Respect for everybody that you go against, right and I
don't think the Bengals can afford to look anybody in
the eyes and say we don't respect you.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
And this is going to be easy, right.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
I think when you're facing a team that's clearly struggling
and is trying to find answers, that's a good time
to really test the guys that need to prove themselves, like, Hey,
this is an opportunity for you to really shine because admittedly,
like this should be.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
A game that you should do well against.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
And I think when it comes to Geno Stone and
other guys who have a lot to prove, this is
a time for them to really show why they should
still be on the field. And I think even like
last year when the defense really ended things on a
high note, in those final five or six games, they
did not go against the best offenses or the best quarterbacks,
you saw their abilities really show themselves in those opportunities.
(11:27):
Because sometimes in the NFL, when parody is king and
everything like that, there's still massive disadvantages that your opponents
may have to deal with. And I think that could
be a case this week where you really give some
of those guys a chance to just just play their
hearts out and play above what they've been doing so
because that should be the expectation against teams like the
Jets who are winless.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
We saw the Bengals struggle to get any type of
pass rush with al Trey Hendrickson on Thursday. I expect
him to be on a bit of a pitch count
against the Jets. How can they do a better job
of getting pass rush should al Golden blae it's more
when Trey Hendrickson is not on the field, or just
blitz more in general to try to speed up the quarterback.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
It's tough.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
I feel like these kinds of questions are always asked
in the middle of the soon, and the answer is
that some of these problems needed to be solved in
March and April, where they just don't have like the
bodies that can, just like it is hard to scheme
pass rush when you don't have guys who can like
they should be in advotateous situations anyways, because it's a
(12:29):
lot easier being a defensive lineman than an offensive.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Line and that's just an inherent advantage in.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
Today's games, despite how clickly the ball is getting out
of your hands, and if you don't have guys in
the building who can just win one on one as
pass rushers, there's not much you can do schematically as
a coach to.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Get around that.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
You can try games and stunts and blitzes and twists
all you want.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
But teams can also adapt to that.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
And if you just don't win in a quick manner,
if you don't have the guys who can do that,
It is.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Really tough in order to do that.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
So that's why it still comes down to the players
actually performing up to their drests status, and that's still
not quite what we've seen from the most part of
of the likes of Miles Murphy and Schmarstir and everything.
There's still time for those guys to continue flashing the
internal those slashes into consistency, but that's why we're not
really seeing it, and it's just not that much that
the coaches can do.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
We are a couple weeks away now from the deadline
for trade or trade deadline in the NFL. The Bengals
obviously sit at three and four, but a winnable game
on Sunday, I think the Bears is going to be
an interesting matchup. What do you need to see over
the next two weeks and if you see enough over
the next two are you buying at the deadline?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
If you're the Bengals' on the.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
Bengals, I would always be trying to make proactive moves.
It's just not what I quite expect them to do.
I think they're only their definition of proactive is Oh,
a travesty happened in terms of an injury and we
need to find a quick solution to that. I think
that you can equate that to what happened with Joe Slatto, right.
I think when the opportunity arises when they can offload
(13:58):
a player that is no longer a value to them
for a.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Player that they could find value.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
We talked about Billy Price for bj Hill, right, that
could be what they look at and maybe a potential
Logan Wilson type trade.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Right.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
I think those opportunities are always there and they're always looking,
But I don't know if I'm really looking for anything
in the next two weeks in terms of like.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Yes, they need they absolutely need to be buying here.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
I think if they find ways to win without a
reliable pass rush, that's still something that I would like
to see.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
But we've get to.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Really seen them explore that position in terms of these deals.
But yes, finding additional pass rush, whether it be on
the edge or the interior, that should be somewhat of
a priority, just to see just to test the waters,
to see if there's anything out that they can get,
because I think still this defense needs to take that
next step and just finding a better pass rush. But
other than that I'm not really expecting much in terms
of them buying regardless of the next two weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
John, you're the absolute best man. It's so good to
catch up with you. I look forward to doing it
again next week. What's the easiest way to follow along
with everything you got going on with your coverage of
the Bengals?
Speaker 5 (14:57):
Absolutely, Agency, Sports dot Com, Backs Cincinnati, eighties Sports Cincinnati,
and Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, wherever you get your short form
video content.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
We're all over the place.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Love it, John, Thanks, John, appreciate you man. Go bear
Cats as well.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Go cat Let's go.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
All right, we need to get the talkbacks. Yeah, sorry
that long pause there, I uh my microphone, were my
uh headphones unplugged?
Speaker 6 (15:25):
You did that yourself? Yeah, accidentally pulled them. Yeah, I've
done that, pulled the chair out, and it's a play.
It's a panic because it goes from just complete silence.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, like I did. I don't know if John was
still talking. I don't know if you said something right,
So there's just awkward silence.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
I've done that.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Middle You're like, all right, we're gonna get the talkbacks next,
even though I had no idea.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
What was said in the last four seconds. Um, those
are next.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Thanks to our friends at Cincy Schartz, thank you for
listening on the Home of the Bengals ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Now your chance to win up
Pike Cincy three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in
part by Cimcy Shirts, Cincy Shirts, All Cincy, all Day.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Shout out to the folks at Cincy Shirts. Welcome to
our number two, Cincy three sixty. Thank you for joining us.
Your talkback's coming up in just a few moments. We'll
still talk some Wes Miller and UC basketball later on
an hour number three, we'll read and react. We'll look
ahead to the college and NFL slate coming up starting
tonight at the NFL level as well. But before we
(00:36):
do any of that, let's go to our guy from
ADAZ Sports covering the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
John Sharon is with us. What's up, John?
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Hey, Tony, Good to talk to you again, man.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Always always good to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
John. Before I even talk to you about the Cincinnati Bengals,
how about these Cincinnati Bearcats. Are you buying what the
Bearcats are putting together right now? And are you buying
the Bearcats as Big twelve contenders?
Speaker 5 (00:58):
I really don't want too, but I also really really
want to, So you know what, I'm just gonna I'm
just gonna let go.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
I'm gonna let go. I'm gonna let them hurt me again.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
You know, I've put off these walls. They're tearing down
right now.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
I'm just I'm just going with it.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
We'll see what they do against Utah and a coup
in I guess a week or so.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Ye. Yeah, I'm just like, let's just ride out. Let's
just see what happens.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Take care of business against a very talented offense on Saturday,
and uh, and see what happens on the road in
Utah against a good squad.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
We know what happened last Thursday, Bengals pick up a
win against the Steelers. Joe Flacca was amazing. He is
now the darling based on his press conference from yesterday
where it feels like so many people can relate to
what Joe Flacca was talking about as it relates to
the field. John, Where did you see the ability for
Joe Flacco to have as much success as he did.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
I think the more time on TAC that he had
in practice with his receivers, the better the timing was.
And I just think it's so impressive how quickly he
was able to get the ball out of his ends.
But also to be able to push the ball down
the field and hit some of those windows and some
of those in breaking routes to either Jamar Chase or
t Higgins. So the offensive line looked better because the
(02:08):
ball was getting out quicker, but also he knew where
to go with the ball.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
And I think that's just what the Bengals had.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
Envisioned with bringing in a new quarterback instead of Drake
Jake grinding, someone who played on time and just you
didn't have to be he doesn't have to be completely accurate,
didn't have to have Joe Burrow type accuracy to make
this offense work, but recognizing when he's got when the
receivers have inside leverage and knowing that you know those
windows are going to open up in a fraction of
a second, and getting the ball out and just still
(02:34):
putting it on, you know, on other guy's hands, like
they're some of the best hands catchers in the NFL.
So it's just it's all about just making sure that
you're into on time and then rhythm, and.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
That's just how you had that success.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
And obviously, you know, the Steelers did him a favor
by just spamming man coverage over and over again, and
just not really adjusting.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
In that regard, and that's kind of how that day happened.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
But I was very impressed by how well he played
on time and in rhythm throughout.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
The entire game. That's just what allowed the consisten success
to keep blowing.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
You mentioned the Steelers playing man coverage. I was surprised.
Not only that, but when you think about a team
playing man, you think that they're committing more to the
box to stop the run. And yet Chase Brown ran
for nine point eight yards of carry. They ran it
as a team for six point two yards per carry.
Anything that you can point to as to why they
were all of a sudden able to find success on
the ground, I.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Think the blocking was just better.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
I think they found some concepts with flatko under center,
because obviously the Bengals run game with Burrow, it's been
mostly in the pistol around the shotgun because he doesn't
have as much comfort, you know, under center. But Joe Flacco,
obviously he's played a long time, he's been around that
scheme a while, and I think he finds some comfort
in it, and they can kind of marry the pass
and run game a little bit coming out from that formation,
(03:45):
and you know, they were able to kind of stretch
the Steelers out a little bit horizontally, and I think
dol Rytherner had a good game walking next to Rounda
Brown junior, and that opens up some holes for Chase Brown.
So you know, the Steelers, we talked about it with
Austin last week. They're really aggressive and how they defend
the run. Sometimes they can get a little bit over aggressive,
and I think the Bengals just found a nice rhythm
and flow with some of the concepts that they had
under center, and that's what led to that succeps. It
(04:06):
didn't really matter where in the game it was, or
the Bengals were up, or if they were trailing or
anything like that.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I think walking was just better.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
You mentioned Dalton Risner. Zach Taylor has not announced or
won't announced exactly who his starting guards are going to be.
Do you expect there to be a short leash for
those guys and the Bengals kind of keep rolling through
whoever they feel like he's playing good at the moment.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
Yeah. I was a bit surprised that Riisner got the
start last week, considering that Fairchild he seemed to be practicing.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
And able to play, and he was active.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
I think it was more just the fact that it
was a short week and Fairchild was coming off that
knee injury, and maybe they didn't think they had enough
time to actually practice enough to play. But then Riisner,
you know, he's a natural left guard, that's where he's
played ninety percent of his snaps, and I think he
looked better there compared to right guards in some of
those first couple weeks where he was starting. I would
imagine that Fairchild is going to take that spot back
(04:56):
now that he's fully healthy, just because I don't think
he was playing bad enough to warrant being benched, and
I think they value Risner just being the guy that
can fill in either spot in a pinch if some
guy gets hurt.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
I'm really interested to see in the least with Jan Rivers.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
I think that's a case where they really liked what
he did in preseason, and then the first chance that
they felt like he deserved in the regular season in
Week four, that he got that chance, and I don't
think they wanted to take him out until maybe something
drastic happens. But I would imagine that we're going to
see both rookies out there this week when they're both healthy,
and maybe it's just about giving Rivers a little bit
(05:31):
more time to see if he can kind of stabilize himself,
and if not, then that's where you have Lucas Patrick
or Dalton Riisers to fill in for that spot.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
One other thing on the offense, and then I'll switch
it over the defensive side of the ball. You mentioned
Joe Flacco and the ability to go under center in
the running game. We've seen this now from different sample sizes.
When Jake Browning took over years ago, they did found
some success, find some success in the running game, and
a lot of it was drawn to the under center run.
I know that Joe Burrow doesn't want to get under
(06:00):
center much. You watch what he did at LSU. They
were rarely ever under center. When it comes down to
Zach's scheme versus what Joe Burrow wants to do. How
did those conversations eventually go, Because I wonder if if
Zach has tried to do more under center, and you
speculate as if Joe doesn't want to do that and
just wants to stay and gun, or how do you
(06:22):
think that dynamic works or needs to adapt when Joe
Burrow is healthy to find success in the running game.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Still.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
You know Zach Taylor, we knew that he came from
the Shaw McBay coaching tree, and that entire offense is
just based off of being under center and just having
blue legs and playoff packing wide zone. And we saw
that the first year that Taylor was here in twenty
eighteen with Amy Dalton, and we knew that the offense,
like you said that Burrow was coming from with Joe Brady,
(06:51):
it didn't really feature any of that, and it tried
to maximize the strengths of that offense with its receivers
in the past game and the ability for Burrow to
examine in the defense from the gun, to never turn
his back from what the defense is showing him, and
to know where the ball is supposed to go at
all times, which is how he can operate behind a
bad offensive line and he can just still have an
(07:12):
efficient day out there even without a reliable running game,
because it is hard to find a reliable running game
when you're never under center, right, So that's always been
the weird thing that they've tried to balance. And I
think Taylor and his offense is in a scheme has
really adjusted to what Burrow does well. But it is
hard to sustain that success over years and years because
eventually the defenses are going to be able to pick
up on it and it's just easier to defend because
(07:34):
there's not as much the diversity into a lot more
predictable to defend against. So I think the conversations has
always been how can they maximize Burrow because he's the
most valuable person in that building, and they want to
make sure that he plays it as his best and
he's in a scheme that maximizes that.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
But it's always been a weird thing to balance in.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
Terms of trying to do what is best for just
you know, countering what defenses are doing to you, but
also making sure that you're not putting him in a
position where he's not like at his best. So I
think when we see sometimes when different quarterbacks are in
there and they have different strengths, sometimes we see different aspects
of the offense, and that's kind of what we're seeing
right now.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
How do you characterize what's going on on the defensive
side of the ball right now? We have talked for
weeks now, John about at times, Logan Wilson's snap count,
Cam Taylor Britt is now a healthy scratch. It feels
like at points there they're going to the young guys,
They're giving them as many opportunities as possible. Yet at
the same time guys are being held accountable. But Gino
Stone is still playing a lot and he struggled at times.
(08:31):
So how do you categorize what you're seeing on the
defensive side of the ball as a whole?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
With Al Golden, I don't.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Think it's too dissimilar to when lu Narumo first took over.
After you know, the coaching change there, we remember, like
obviously what happened. Carlo has done that right, Like that
was a guy that was phased out, someone who is
well respected in the locker room, and unfortunately you notice
the difference of what the defense the new defensive corner
is falling it. And I think that's kind of what
we're seeing.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
A little bit with Al Golden and Logan Wilson and
some other guys as well.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
It came to the Brick could be another example as well,
even though he was benched obviously by the previous if
that's the coordinator, so again it's it is still surprising
to see what is happening with Wilson, but I think
that's just the reality that they're accepting and they deemed
that Bear Carters is.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Better in that role.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
And I think in general, this defense is still really
trying to find himself and just really they're capitalizing on
the times when they do find the ball, and like
their best games have been when they can capitalize on
turnovers and when they can you know, really make the
most of those opportunities. It is still a matter of
trying to find consistency in terms of getting stops when
(09:36):
they need to.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
That's what they did against Pittsburgh at the end of.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
The day and at the end of that game, and
that's how they were able to get their offensive chance
to kind of win them at the end. But yeah,
it's still, I think, very much of a work in
progress of figuring out which players are best there.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
And with Gino Stone it.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
Is tough to put a new safety in there and
try to make sure that the communication is, you know what,
the same as it is. So you know, I think
Stone Neat still needs to just prove it himself and
be more consistent, But it meant something that he was
he's still here and that they brought him back and
retained it, even just by the pay cut.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
I do wonder, you know, I saw there's the back
and forth this week about preparing for Tyrod Taylor or
preparing for Justin Fields. I know that's difficult, and you
can speak to maybe what that challenge presents itself for
the Bengals and not really knowing who's going to be
the quarterback. But against a team like the Jets who
are struggling in the passing game, could you make the
point that maybe now would be a good opportunity to
(10:31):
give someone else an opportunity if if it's not the
most elite passing game you're going to go against on Sunday.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
I think the counter actually makes a lot more sense
if you.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
I mean, obviously there's.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
Respect for everybody that you go against, right and I
don't think the Bengals can afford to look anybody in
the eyes and say we don't respect you.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
And this is going to be easy, right.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
I think when you're facing a team that's clearly struggling
and is trying to find answers, that's a good time
to really test the guys that need to prove themselves, like, Hey,
this is an opportunity for you to really shine because admittedly,
like this should be.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
A game that you should do well against.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
And I think when it comes to Geno Stone and
other guys who have a lot to prove, this is
a time for them to really show why they should
still be on the field. And I think even like
last year when the defense really ended things on a
high note, in those final five or six games, they
did not go against the best offenses or the best quarterbacks,
you saw their abilities really show themselves in those opportunities.
(11:27):
Because sometimes in the NFL, when parody is king and
everything like that, there's still massive disadvantages that your opponents
may have to deal with. And I think that could
be a case this week where you really give some
of those guys a chance to just just play their
hearts out and play above what they've been doing so
because that should be the expectation against teams like the
Jets who are winless.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
We saw the Bengals struggle to get any type of
pass rush with al Trey Hendrickson on Thursday. I expect
him to be on a bit of a pitch count
against the Jets. How can they do a better job
of getting pass rush should al Golden blae it's more
when Trey Hendrickson is not on the field, or just
blitz more in general to try to speed up the quarterback.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
It's tough.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
I feel like these kinds of questions are always asked
in the middle of the soon, and the answer is
that some of these problems needed to be solved in
March and April, where they just don't have like the
bodies that can, just like it is hard to scheme
pass rush when you don't have guys who can like
they should be in advotateous situations anyways, because it's a
(12:29):
lot easier being a defensive lineman than an offensive.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Line and that's just an inherent advantage in.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
Today's games, despite how clickly the ball is getting out
of your hands, and if you don't have guys in
the building who can just win one on one as
pass rushers, there's not much you can do schematically as
a coach to.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Get around that.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
You can try games and stunts and blitzes and twists
all you want.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
But teams can also adapt to that.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
And if you just don't win in a quick manner,
if you don't have the guys who can do that,
It is.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Really tough in order to do that.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
So that's why it still comes down to the players
actually performing up to their drests status, and that's still
not quite what we've seen from the most part of
of the likes of Miles Murphy and Schmarstir and everything.
There's still time for those guys to continue flashing the
internal those slashes into consistency, but that's why we're not
really seeing it, and it's just not that much that
the coaches can do.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
We are a couple weeks away now from the deadline
for trade or trade deadline in the NFL. The Bengals
obviously sit at three and four, but a winnable game
on Sunday, I think the Bears is going to be
an interesting matchup. What do you need to see over
the next two weeks and if you see enough over
the next two are you buying at the deadline?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
If you're the Bengals' on the.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
Bengals, I would always be trying to make proactive moves.
It's just not what I quite expect them to do.
I think they're only their definition of proactive is Oh,
a travesty happened in terms of an injury and we
need to find a quick solution to that. I think
that you can equate that to what happened with Joe Slatto, right.
I think when the opportunity arises when they can offload
(13:58):
a player that is no longer a value to them
for a.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Player that they could find value.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
We talked about Billy Price for bj Hill, right, that
could be what they look at and maybe a potential
Logan Wilson type trade.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Right.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
I think those opportunities are always there and they're always looking,
But I don't know if I'm really looking for anything
in the next two weeks in terms of like.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Yes, they need they absolutely need to be buying here.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
I think if they find ways to win without a
reliable pass rush, that's still something that I would like
to see.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
But we've get to.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Really seen them explore that position in terms of these deals.
But yes, finding additional pass rush, whether it be on
the edge or the interior, that should be somewhat of
a priority, just to see just to test the waters,
to see if there's anything out that they can get,
because I think still this defense needs to take that
next step and just finding a better pass rush. But
other than that I'm not really expecting much in terms
of them buying regardless of the next two weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
John, you're the absolute best man. It's so good to
catch up with you. I look forward to doing it
again next week. What's the easiest way to follow along
with everything you got going on with your coverage of
the Bengals?
Speaker 5 (14:57):
Absolutely, Agency, Sports dot Com, Backs Cincinnati, eighties Sports Cincinnati,
and Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, wherever you get your short form
video content.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
We're all over the place.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Love it, John, Thanks, John, appreciate you man. Go bear
Cats as well.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Go cat Let's go.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
All right, we need to get the talkbacks. Yeah, sorry
that long pause there, I uh my microphone, were my
uh headphones unplugged?
Speaker 6 (15:25):
You did that yourself? Yeah, accidentally pulled them. Yeah, I've
done that, pulled the chair out, and it's a play.
It's a panic because it goes from just complete silence.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, like I did. I don't know if John was
still talking. I don't know if you said something right,
So there's just awkward silence.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
I've done that.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Middle You're like, all right, we're gonna get the talkbacks next,
even though I had no idea.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
What was said in the last four seconds. Um, those
are next.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Thanks to our friends at Cincy Schartz, thank you for
listening on the Home of the Bengals ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Now your chance to win up
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