Tony Pike's Cincy 360 -- 12/9/25

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sincy three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in part
by Skyline Chili. Stop by Skyline Chili for a three
way or cheese cony today. Feeling good, It's Skyline time.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Good afternoon, Happy Tuesday. Welcome into the next and latest
edition of Cincy three sixty on the home of the Bengals.
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station of service Here and
now re number one of our good friends at Skyline Chili.
Anytime you're feeling good and hungry, it's Skyline time. We
are happy. We're excited to have you along for the
next three hours of local, mostly local Cincinnati sports talk.

(00:46):
And uh we'll do that with the guests this afternoon
as well. Joe Daniman from Fox nineteen, we'll join us
at one o'clock. We've got a ton of Bengals news
that happened yesterday, from players being released, to players going
under the knife, to players going back into concussion protocol.
Games are being flexed, and yes, after a day to

(01:11):
harp on a loss, today we'll explain to you what
the pass forward looks like for an eight and nine
home playoff game for the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Wait, ye, this wasn't discussed before the show?

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yep?

Speaker 3 (01:24):
Are you back on?

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, no, I'm just in a b I'm in a
worse place today because of what just happened a few
minutes before we came on the air, which is the
second time, and I would say there, it is second
time in three days, Austin, and I've bought back in.
So what I did when that fourth quarter started in
the Bengals Bills game and the Bengals took that twenty

(01:48):
eight to eighteen lead with just under eight minutes left,
you know what I did? I bought back in. I said,
my gosh, they're going to do this. They're going to
run the table and they're going to make the playoffs.
It was the first time, outside of just talking about
what the path could be, that I allowed myself mentally
to go to that place. Man, this feels like a

(02:09):
playoff game. This feels like a heavyweight battle. This is
what playoff football is all about. And as that lead
evaporated and the Bengals lost the game, I was more mad,
yes at the Bengals, and had execution down the stretch
and third and fifteen defense. I was also mad at
myself because I I let myself believe I shouldn't have

(02:33):
done that. And then she kind of stowed on it
yesterday and came in today and ready to take the
next step, pick up the pieces. And then this Kyle
Schwarber stuff continued to happen, and people continued to talk,
and not just random people, that's all with the Philadelphia

(02:55):
Choir talked about Kyle Schwarber coming to the Reds on
Nick cross comments, Barry Larkin's comments. Brad Doolittle on ESPN
dot com projected Kyle Schwarber to come to the Cincinnati Reds.
Our good friend Jeff Carr. I saw a post from
him earlier this morning, Maneff doing where Jeff was like, Man,
this feels different. It feels like it can happen. It

(03:17):
feels like Kyle Schwarber to the Cincinnati Reds. And you
know what I did again this morning, Austin, I allowed
myself to believe, and I should know better at my age,
how long I've been a Cincinnati sports fan, that these
things tend to just not happen. These things tend to
come crashing down pretty quickly. And that's what happened today.

(03:41):
I went to pay a bet and a debt to
our good friend down the hall, Willy cutting him. Of course, Yeah,
I've bet. I think the last four times i've bet Willie,
I've taken the Bearcats and I had to pay off
multiple bets with some hot fudge Sundays. And before I left,
you and I were in this studio talking to Kyle Schwarber,
Sure and the Reds and options and what this looked like.

(04:05):
And then I got back fifteen minutes later and you said,
Kyle Schwarber, big news. And for a second I thought,
no way, Kyle Schwarber's here. Kyle Schwarber signed with the Reds.
And then you proceeded to tell me that the National
League leader from last year in home runs with fifty
six is going back to the Philadelphia Phillies on a

(04:26):
five year, one hundred and fifty million dollar contract.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
I made sure to make it the last thing I
told you. You said, Kyle Schwarber, five years, one hundred
and fifty million. You said really, I said, yeah, with
the Philadelphia Phillies. I thought about it. There are a
lot of layers to this. I think the most important
one is understanding that Kyle Schwarber is the exception to

(04:55):
the rule if the Reds. You know, I think the
Reds did sue him and did try to pursue him,
and I think he really thought about it, and if
he had accepted it, he would have been the exception
to the rule when it comes to their payroll. Sure,
and now because he is in Philadelphia with the Phillies,

(05:18):
I don't think the Reds view any of those other
free agents as a player worthy of being the exception
to the rule. Which means, here we go. They're at
that five to seven and a half to ten to
maybe twelve million dollars worth of payroll that they have
to spend to try to make last team, last year's

(05:39):
team better than this year's team.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Here's the naive nature that I live in, at least
in my brain. I say, well, if the Reds had
an offer lined up for Kyle Schwarber, why can't they
turn that offer to a Kyle Tucker, to a Cody Bellinger,
to an Alex Bregman, to a Pete Alonzo. Why can't
they just turn that attention and that money and go
get another big splash. Jeff Passon did report in the

(06:06):
Schwober deal that Cincinnati the dark course because of its
need for a power bat an appeal to Schwarber, who
grew up in Middletown, did not meet the financial demands
that others were willing to meet. So that is the
report from Jeff Passing is that the Reds were in
but did not meet the financial demands that other teams

(06:29):
were willing to meet. And there's also a part of
me that says, you know what this is about playing
the game as well. I don't think Chris Henry Jr.
Last week Austin was ever really thinking about going anywhere
by the Ohio state. Sure, but do you know what
Chris Henry Jr. Probably got by making the spectacle that
he did. A couple of extra bucks. Probably got some
extra money. And Kyle Schwarber again, when the Philadelphia Inquire

(06:54):
is reporting that this is a real possibility that Kyle
Schwarber is leaving to go to Cincinnati and the tingency
plans need to be made, that's enough to get some
people in Philly I would think uneasy. And in doing so,
Kyle Schwarber probably got that fifth year that he was
looking for. He gets thirty million per year, five years,

(07:14):
one hundred and fifty million, And since Kyle Schrober likes Cincinnati, Austin,
when he's done with that five year deal, he could
just move back and enjoy the rest of his life
in Cincinnati. Now, there's part of me that thinks there's
a little bit of that at play too, sure, and
that's that's that's okay for Kyle Schwarber to do. I'm
just mad at myself again because I believed, now again

(07:37):
many would say, will you put together a pretty good
offer to at least make Philly uneasy? Bregman, Alonzo, Bellinger, Tucker.
I'm sure there's other names out there, power hitters, electric
bats that this lineup needs. Why not take that money,
Austin and move that to a different player? As you mentioned,

(07:59):
and I know are good friend Charlie Goldsmith, who is
at those winter meetings right now, already kind of laid
out that's just not really the direction that he views
or we viewed the Reds going.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
I don't think anyone expects them to pivot in that way.
Is I think the point that we're trying to make
here is, Okay, this is the one guy that we
feel like we'd be worthy of taking that big of
a risk and being able to go all in in
a way for him. And I think there are different

(08:29):
layers to that. There's a guy like Schwarber being, you know,
the hometown hero, and the way that you can market
him and profit off of him and get money in
return from him that maybe you wouldn't get for a
Pet Alonzo or a Kyle Tucker or whatever it might be.
I also will say I think those guys have flaws,

(08:52):
maybe more than Kyle Schwarber does.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
I mean, you had fifty six home runs he did
hit two forty, yeah, and that would have been great
for the Reds last year. Kyle Tucker had a tough
season towards the end of last year, and the Cubs,
who have ten times more money than the Reds, aren't
willing to go after him. Bregman, Where's he gonna play
third base? You just got key Brian Hayes. Doesn't make

(09:16):
as much sense.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
Now.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
I would love it if they had Alex Bregman, no doubt,
but based off their previous moves, doesn't really make as
much sense. And so I feel like the Red said,
this is the Golden Goose, We'll try like hell to
get him. And if we don't, we'll stick to our
original plan. Now, I'm not saying that's the right thing.
I'm not saying I like that. I'm not saying I'm

(09:38):
happy that it's happening. I'm trying to take you inside
the mind of the people in that organization in a
way that they operate. And I think it was presented
to Bob and Phil and the ownership group that says, listen,
if we can land Kyle Schwarber, there can be a
serious return on investment here that can set us up
not only to win, but not to hurt us financially

(10:01):
in the future. And the conversation, whether you like it
or not, with the Reds, starts and stops with money.
Nick Carl said it the other day. Our ownership group
operates so that they can break even every year. That
is their goal. And whether or not you believe that,
I'm not sure that I do. That is the truth

(10:22):
of the general thought process is about the bottom line. Sure,
and it's an unfortunate reality for a lot of teams
in Major League Baseball that the financials are more important
than the wins and losses. And that's true with the
Cincinnati Reds as well.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Winter Meetings. Also happening more in Major League Baseball, Edwin Diaz,
the All Star closer from the Mets, is going to
the Los Angeles Dodgers. The rich continue to get richer.
How about the Tigers coming out and saying, Hey, there
are no untouchables on our team. You want to come
get tariq'skuball, come get them.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
Would you rather be a Reds fan or a Tigers fan? Today?
You get the rug pulled out from underneath you about
Kyle Schwarber or your owner says, we know we're never
going to be able to sign school ball, so everybody's
up for grabs.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Probably on this day. The Reds, I don't know, Tigers
have won the World Series recently, that's also true. We'll
dive into the college hoops landscape at some point today.
NKU and Kentucky are in action tonight. What I think
we'll do We'll revisit the conversation we had during the
bye week about NFL contenders and pretenders. We'll also, after
last night's Monday Night football game, throw some quarterback tears

(11:35):
out on today's show as well. The Heisman finalist have
been announced.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
It is.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Fernando Mendoza, Diego Pavia, Jeremiah Love, and Julian saying, those
are your Heisman finalists this year. By the way, I
saw on Sports Illustrated Austin a mock draft that had
the Bengals drafting Jeremiah Love. Oh so just load up
on the offensive side of the ball and see what

(12:04):
else happens. Last night, Monday Night football, I'll say this,
my son loved the Monsters broadcast. Loved watching the Monsters
broadcast your ZINC. I watched on my phone the regular broadcast,
and my, oh my, what a game that was last night.

(12:26):
And by game, I mean an absolute train wreck. For
the first time, I watched a player have two turnovers
on the same play, Jalen Hurts through an interception. The
player that intercepted the ball fumbled it. Jalen Hurts recovered
that fumble and then fumbled it away. He threw four
interceptions and fumbled the ball last night. Justin Herbert, he
wasn't that much better. But Justin Herbert had surgery on

(12:48):
his left hand earlier in the week. Sure, that's dog
mentality to have a surgery and come out and play
in the same week. In the end, it was Cameron
Dicker and his winning for the Los Angeles Chargers, and
all of a sudden, the Eagles have lost three games
in a row. The Philadelphia Eagles are now eight and five, Cowboys, Bears,

(13:14):
Chargers have all now good news for Philly as they
now play the Raiders and the Commander's next, so they
might be able to get right. But it's an uneasy
feeling right now in Philly, one would think, and I
don't know another way to put it than an absolute
train wreck last night, which kind of made it enjoyable
to watch. It was fun.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
You can't look away for some of those, you know, Yeah,
and that's what it was. I'm fascinated by the Eagles
offense and why it does and does not work at times.
And I think their offensive line has been a bit
of an issue obviously, just not being able to run
the football. It starts with that. And I like Jalen Hurts.

(13:52):
I'm a big Jalen Hurts fan. But you know, I
think we'll talk quarterback tiers later on.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
Is he ever one of those guys that you feel like,
all right, got to win the game on this drive,
He's gonna do it?

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Not at this point, I don't feel that way. It
is the official end of Week fourteen in the National
Football League as well. Hold up, well, this is unprofessional,
but I normally don't take phone calls. Hello, Carly, Yeah,
probably around five o'clock.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
Do you do you do you need me to turn
your mic off?

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Sorry? Yeah, that was unprofession That was Carly hearsay. I
am uh, I'm gonna have to bounce out before quick
hits today.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
Damn it.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
You got me right there? You got me good right there?

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Apparently, Uh, the forty four year old Philip Rivers workout
didn't go well, so they're they're they're exploring all options.
So if I were to leave here about two forty five,
could I get dainty by five?

Speaker 3 (14:46):
I don't think so. But damn that was funny. Good
job you got me.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
I need to turn your mic.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Oh you got I was like reaching for it. I
was like, gosh, this must be an emergency. This is unprofessional, colleague.
Can I can't see you? So I don't know what
you're Gosh.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yes, forty four year old Philip Rivers is working out
for the Colts.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
We always used to call them pill Rivers, and he's
gonna need a couple of them if he wants to
get through the seat.

Speaker 4 (15:12):
You know.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
The funnest part about that. Last night, I'm watching, you know,
the lead into Monday Night Football, and Schefter comes in
and talks about that, and I'm looking at the face
of Troy Aikman, and Troy like was stunned. Yeah, he
was stuttering. He had nothing to say. Swagu just had
like this look on his face, like what And Jason
Kelsey's like, yes, yes, I want to see this. And

(15:36):
it did give us, if anything, austin a moment last
night where people like on social media started re sharing
some of their favorite philip Rivers clips. Sure forty four
retired in what twenty twenty officially m cults are working
out Philip Rivers. What does that say to all the
other quarterbacks in the NFL that are actually at.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Do you think it's you bring up Troy Aikman. Aikman
had a similar situation. His last season was two thousand
and In the off season going into two thousand and three,
he had agreed to play for the Miami Dolphins and
started training and then it fell through at the last minute.
So kind of a similar situation with Troy, which is

(16:15):
kind of interesting. Yeah, I mean, how do you feel
if you're like Ben Denucci Right now? It's like this
dude has actually played in the NFL recently. Yep, he's
not abysmal Brett. So let's talk about Brett Rippon for
a minute. Was with the Bengals all off season, was
on the Bengals practice squad. Was the Bengals backup quarterback

(16:38):
at a point this year when Jake Browning was starting.
And I think back to the Lions game when Zach
Taylor did irreparable damage to he and I's relationship in
the way he kept putting Jake Browning out there on
the field, and I was screaming at the television. Put
Brett Ripping in. Put Brett Ripping in, and he didn't.

(16:58):
A couple of days later, Joe Flacco has acquired Brett
Ripping is cut. That's how bad apparently Brett Rippen is.
He goes to the Colts, he's on the practice squad,
and now Briley Leonard, Daniel Jones, and Anthony Richardson are
all hurt and they're looking around saying, we're gonna have
to try Phil Rivers over Brett Rippon.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
Here's what I want to know. I want I want
to I want to go into that meeting where they
are just throwing names out that are currently like backups
in the NFL or free agents, and like each one
is getting shot down. I want to know who said,
you know what? I wonder what Philip Rivers is doing?
And then there's because whoever.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
Did that had to go back into the well, and
then there's like a silence in the room while everybody
like it hits everybody.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Right, yeah, I think so. And then someone's like, you
know what, because you know someone in that room said,
what should we call Andrew Luck? I'm sure someone said
that you should. Yeah, I'm sure Ri's name thrown around.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, there's another perfect example of a guy like there had.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
To be twenty names that were thrown out in this conference.
And then finally someone said Philip Rivers, what's he doing?
And they're like, wait, what is he? Oh he's only
forty four, he's not forty okay, and then Philip Rivers says, yeah,
I'll come work out. And then Philip probably got to
the workout and he was like, all right, what do
we got here? And they're like, all right, we're gonna start.
But we need you because we go to Seattle on Sunday.

(18:23):
And then he was like, who Seattle? Well, what's after that?
San Francisco, Jacksonville, Houston. I'm good.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
Well, that's the thing. I'm good if man Rivers has
got to be able to just like the game plan.
Let's say they sign him. The game plan's got to
be We're going to turn the ball and hand it
off to Jonathan Taylor forty times, right, Like that's all
it is. I mean, they're fighting for a playoff spot, though, I.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Just I can't believe. I'm watching like Scott Van Pelt
is trying to hold it together last night. Is this
breaking news is being read? Do you want it to happen?

Speaker 4 (19:01):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Oh my gosh, yes. That gives me five years left.
I can exhaust all options. Absolutely. If I turn on
a TV.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
If I turn on a TV Philip Rivers Pro Football
Hall of Fame semi final, if.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
I see Philip Rivers at four on Sunday warming up
in Seattle, I'm.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
I'm locked in for what?

Speaker 4 (19:28):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (19:29):
What a storyline that is? They know why Phillip's working
out five days a week right now?

Speaker 3 (19:35):
Do you think they called Brady? Oh had to have
called Brady. If you're gonna call Rivers, you gotta call
Brady Man.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
That's what I want to know. I want to know
what other obscure names were thrown out in that meeting
Peyton that eventually got to Philip Rivers. Just Peyton, I mean,
what what a disrespectful move to every backup and practice
squad quarterback in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
I'm trying to see see if I can pull up
who's available or who's just out there right now? Three
guys out there right now?

Speaker 4 (20:10):
CJ.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
Bethard, Jeff Driscoll, Okay Bengal Legend, Jake from.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Logan, Woodside Beast, Taylor Heineken. Do you call Fitzpatrick called
fitz Magic? Yeah? I mean good for the colts Man,
good for Philip Rivers.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
If you're on the spot track website, it has like
trending players. Number one is Jalen Hurts. Number two is
Philip Rivers. If you go down to number ten, though,
this is my favorite one. Quinton Jammer. Did you see
this from Quinton Jammer last night? So, the former Charger
cornerback played in the NFL. NFL for twelve years, admitted

(20:55):
on social media last night to in multiple games over
the worst of his career in twenty eleven being completely
drunk on the field.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
And he was like, he was like fun and people
like replied with like videos of him getting beaten in here,
like were you drunk here?

Speaker 5 (21:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah, probably, I couldn't imagine.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
That makes me wonder sometimes I.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Couldn't imagine trying to play that position drunk, Oh my gosh, no,
or any position at that.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
What would be the easiest one to play drunk long snapper? Well, obviously,
but even then you could ruin the game. Uh, probably
like de tackle or something. Maybe just hide in the.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Middle, Yeah, don't get tackles specifically, although like there had
to be an odor.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
The receivers had to be like, dude, are you drunk?
Maybe he said it was tequila though.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Ooh man, what a fun first segment today that started
with such agone.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
And I feel like we didn't even get to all
of it.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
No, Kyle Schwarber is a Philadelphia Philly. There's that.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Good for him. Man, We got plenty to go with
you when you turned thirty eight, Kyle.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Since he three sixty thanks to Skyline Chilly on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station, Well.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
In the NATI brought to you by Hey During Window
Company on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the
Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Welcome back since he three to sixty. The Tuesday Afternoon
edition a little bit long in segment one, So we'll
be quick here, get back on the clock and we'll
dive into everything that happened with the Cincinnati Bengals just yesterday,
a very busy day for the Bengals yesterday. Before we
get to any of that, we'll open up the phone
line here for a phone call. Mark is calling in.

Speaker 4 (22:36):
What's up?

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Mark?

Speaker 5 (22:39):
Yeah, I didn't get to call in yesterday.

Speaker 6 (22:41):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (22:42):
The game Sunday, Uh, I saw two dumb decisions.

Speaker 7 (22:46):
One out of coach and one out of quarterback. I
mean the coaches. I thought he was it was a
dumb decision. Gimember the Jets game because this scenario repeated itself.
They had the lead and then he had Joe Flacco
and the shotgun for three plays and Uh, the Jets
were able to get him off the field. He didn't run,

(23:08):
he didn't try to run the ball. Okay, fast forward
to this game. He didn't have Burrow under center when
they should have ran the ball with p Ryan.

Speaker 5 (23:19):
They was running the ball. I think p Ryan was.

Speaker 7 (23:21):
Averason what six yards of carry, So you had to lead.
It was the lead was only three points, but you
still had to lead five minutes to go. You know,
how about a couple of running plays. And then the
other dumb decision was that ball looked like it was
slipping out of.

Speaker 5 (23:39):
Burrow's game when he when he.

Speaker 7 (23:42):
Tried to throw it, So you know, the great quarterbacks
would have just probably ate that ball.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah, I said, you either you either have to just
take it and give yourself up and fall down and
take a two yard loss, or you got to throw
the ball at at the defender's ankles. You know, one
of the two, you just gotta you gotta chalk it up.
And I guarantee Burrow, if he had the chance again
one hundred times, he would do that. It's just it's
one of those plays you kind of knew the whole
way it was going to end poorly. But yeah, I'm

(24:09):
in agreement. So myj p rynd ran well five point
two of carrying just six carries, they only carried the
ball nineteen times, which was a little surprising because they
were leading pretty much the whole game. I thought maybe
they would run the ball a little more, but it
was hard because Burrow for three and a half quarters
played so well that you really didn't mind him dropping
back and throwing. But hindsight being what it is, Yeah,

(24:31):
you could have handed the ball off a couple more times.

Speaker 5 (24:34):
I mean, when is this coach going to realize that.

Speaker 7 (24:36):
You can't close the game out running the ball? I mean,
he refuses to do that, and he keeps coming back
to bite him.

Speaker 5 (24:44):
I just don't.

Speaker 7 (24:45):
I just don't think he's ever going.

Speaker 5 (24:46):
To learn that you need to run the ball to close.

Speaker 7 (24:50):
The game out and he can still try to throw
it no matter who the.

Speaker 5 (24:54):
Quarterback he is.

Speaker 7 (24:55):
Yeah, So that's the thing that frustrated me about it.

Speaker 5 (25:00):
Uh And as far as Chaps, I'm outside. As far
as Kyle.

Speaker 7 (25:06):
Schwolzer, did you really think the Reds were really getting
the home did you?

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Hear? I mean that's the problem. I let myself believe
that they were for sure.

Speaker 5 (25:17):
Yeah, I never thought that was a possibility.

Speaker 7 (25:20):
Todd, Okay, they cut Jermaine Burton yesterday, another wasted draft, hick.
So are we gonna Are we gonna stop drafting players
with character issues? That you got to take a chance off.

Speaker 5 (25:33):
Are we gonna stop doing that now?

Speaker 2 (25:35):
You would? You would think, Mark, I appreciate the phone
call man, Thank you. We're gonna dive into the Jermaine
Burton thing when we got back. When we get back,
it rings to me the comments that Nick Saban made
during the draft when Jermaine Burton was drafted and the
warning that he gave and and that warning that pretty
much came to fruition when it comes to Jermaine Burton.
We'll talk about that and of all things Bengals. When

(25:59):
we returned what was a very busy Monday. Right here
on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station, thanks to Skyline Chilly, you've.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Been listening to Football in the NATI on ESPN fifteen thirty,
the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. Every sport, every story,
every angle. Moeger Today at three pm on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
For ten years, families have truck.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Since the three sixty continues now on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 8 (26:38):
On the valve.

Speaker 9 (26:39):
Here's the one to oh bitch Warber swings.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
The hammers is high in the air.

Speaker 9 (26:44):
It is deep down the right field line of it's fair,
it's gone, and it is a fair ball.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
Just inside the right field valvepowl.

Speaker 9 (26:55):
That is a two run home run for Schwarber, his
forty second home run of the year, and that makes
it a four to one Phillies lead.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
That's just mean, and it is mean because it has
to go as our win Schulers call the day. And
win Schulers does not mean. Win Schulers is everything you want.
And Christmas bottled up in the holiday season into one
four delicious cheese spreads.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Did we even offer Schwarber some wind Shulers.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Why not? They didn't meet the financial demands and they
didn't offer win Schulers to me the taste of the holidays.
Don't let your holiday party go without win Schulders. It
pairs well with anything any of their four flavors. Thanks
to Win Schulers if you missed it earlier. Kyle Schwarber

(27:39):
has signed a five year, one hundred and fifty million
dollar deal to go back to the Philadelphia.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
But the Reds are not sitting on their hands to
the Reds have made to sign it.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Here we go.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
Cincinnati has signed left hander Joel Valdez. Maybe Joel Valdez
to a minor league contract. Dez was selected by the
Reds in last year's minor league phase of the Rule
five draft. He posted a two point three four ERA
over fifty seven at a third innings between Double A
Chattanooga and TRIPAA Louisville last season. The battle four the

(28:15):
bullpen lefty rages on and Joel Valdez enters the conversation.
Take that teams playing chess financial flexibility.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
Now that Schwarber is out of the Phillies are playing checkers.
Reds are like, watch this, watch this move. Speaking of moves,
plethra of moves happened yesterday as it relates to the
Cincinnati Bengals. Let's go through these, Austin, I think, in
the least surprising of any of the news yesterday, the
Dolphins Bengals game has been flexed from Sunday night football

(28:49):
to a one pm start. Yeah, probably the least surprising
of any of these.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
Yeah, it was frustrating. I think there's a chance that
that game stays on Sunday night if the Bengals had
been in the Buffalo bill.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yes, because of what the Dolphins are doing.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Because of what the Dolphins are doing, playing much better
football right now. But because you know the the ramifications
that you know, I think, most notably, this week's game
between the Bills and the Patriots could have on the
AFC playoffs. And if the Patriots win the AFC or
win the game over the Bills, they win the AFC East.

(29:23):
But if Buffalo wins, then both those teams Baltimore and
New England are fighting for their division, so they they
turn it over to the Patriots and the Ravens. Yeah,
other news o'clock in Miami, though after being here, might
take a little bit to get used to the former

(29:44):
third round draft pick from Alabama, a draft pick in
which Nick Saban on Draft Nights sat at the podium
and talked about some off the field and character issues.
That is Jermaine Burton. I have the audio if you
want to here. This is Nick Saban immediately after the
Bengals drafted his former wide receiver Jamaine Burton.

Speaker 10 (30:05):
For you last year, is a tremendous competitive He's got
great quickness, He's got really good speed. He can come
in and out of a break, he can beat man
to man.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
I mean, I really really like this guy.

Speaker 10 (30:17):
The number one thing that he needs to do and
I think emotional maturity is the best way to say
it is, do the right things all the time.

Speaker 5 (30:26):
He does the right things on the field.

Speaker 10 (30:29):
He knows the importance of what he has to do
on the field. He wants to be a player, that's
all he thinks about yet. But you got to do
the right things in your life all the time so
that you can do the best things that you can
do on the field and be the best.

Speaker 11 (30:41):
You can be.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
I think that was a very nice way of saying
that he has some issues. Yep, those issues were never
able to be worked out for the Cincinnati Bengals. As
Mo put it yesterday, four catches on fourteen career targets
for Jermaine Burton. Jermaine Burton, despite Jamar Chase being suspended
for a game this year, despite T Higgins missing due
to injury, Jermaine Burton never even was active this year

(31:04):
for the Bengals.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
I can't believe you just said he had fourteen targets. Yeah,
that seems like a lot. Yeah, I never would have
thought that.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Four catches, fourteen targets for the career for Jermaine Burton,
which in Cincinnati now comes to an end. As Zach
Taylor said yesterday the Bengals have officially released Jermaine Burton.
Your thoughts.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
Wish it wouldn't have taken so long. What the hell
took so long? Was my initial thought. I talked about
it a little bit yesterday. I'm sure there was somebody
in the organization that was willing to be a little
bit more patient, but I feel like they had maybe
told him it's the last straw. You know, whatever happens next,
you get no more strikes. And it sounds like something
else happened between this week and then going to Buffalo

(31:50):
where he ended up getting suspended, and we don't know
what it is. Nobody's been able to say exactly what
it is, but clearly it was too much in the
Bengals are like, we're done with this.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Shortly after that was announced, it was announced that Trey
Hendrickson was going to be seeking a second opinion for
his injuries, the injuries that have now kind of just
carried on. The injuries were not as significant when they
first happened to put him on the injured list, yet
they've drug on. It's been very weird. We've talked about

(32:23):
this openly Austin with Trey Hendrickson and the unique nature
around every Monday press conference Zach Taylor pretty much shutting
the door on Trey Hendrickson. Well, the door is now
shut on Trey Hendrickson for the remainder of the year,
as he, after getting that second opinion, is going to
undergo a surgery that will likely end his season. The
question I have does it end the time in Cincinnati

(32:47):
officially for Trey Hendrickson?

Speaker 3 (32:49):
I would guess yes. We'll have to get into over
the course of the offseason all the different options and
paths for the Bengals to take to fix their defense
and what ultimately is the best decision for the franchise.
One of those options would be to tag Trey Hendrickson
for a relatively affordable price for an edge rusher.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
If they need that position. Still.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
I don't even know if it's that as much as
if you can get a guy on that type of
money that increases his trade value tenfold. And so are
you willing to go back to anybody who had had
those conversations with you previously and said, Okay, well, now
he's healthy and he's cheap, Now will you give us

(33:36):
a third round pick for him? And maybe you're able
to get something like that, and the Bengals will find
a way to take another loser in the third round.
So I don't know. I would assume it's over. I
wouldn't be surprised if there is some sort of franchise
tag placed on him. But I think we've reached the
point where it's best for both sides to just move on.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Also, like I don't want another offseason distraction. You also,
if you're the Bengals, need to figure out Shamar Stewart.
You have a decision to make on Joseph Osai, who's
played much better down the stretch. A lot of things
are going to go into that decision around Trey Hendrickson,
but his season comes to a close, and then I

(34:16):
think the most pressing concern right now for the Cincinnati
Bengals revolves around t Higgins. T Higgins hit his head
on the turf multiple times against the Buffalo Bills, but
each time he cleared concussion test and got in the
game and finished out the game. He obviously had the
one handed catch at the end of the game. However,

(34:37):
Ben Baby reported that Higgins reported concussion like symptoms after
the game and is now back in concussion protocol, so
he was in the team's injury tent twice, cleared both checks,
he returned to the game. There's no concrete answer on
now his status against the Baltimore Ravens. Zach Taylor didn't

(34:59):
really provide up date. He's back in protocol, going to
go through it this week. I have a hard time
believing with his second concussion since week twelve that he
would play. But there's nothing concrete about that. But a
little bit concerning you saw the hits. You saw his
head hitting on the turf. Concussions have been an issue
for t Higgins and they now are an issue as

(35:19):
those symptoms carried on after the game as well.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
He had that hit and he came back in the game,
and I was really surprised just way off the way
that he reacted to the first hit, and then I wondered, okay, well,
maybe he just kind of scared himself, like, oh crap,
I just hit my head again, And I think that's
what happened on the second one. So had a couple
of drops, went into the tent, came back, and then
initiated himself a second review to make sure he was okay,

(35:46):
and he passed again, So that in and of itself
would tell me if I'm T Higgins, I'm not all
the way there mentally to if I'm worried about Okay,
hold on, I need to get checked out again. Yeah,
then probably sets there, Yeah exactly. And then after the
game went to the Bengals trainers and said, hey, I'm
I'm still feeling this way. I think it's also important

(36:08):
to note that those tests are not done by the
Bengals trainers. Those are independent league people who put him
back into the game, or not put him back in
the game, but clear him to be able to go
back in the game. So, I mean, there was a
joint statement between the NFL and NFLPA that said everything
went as it's supposed to go, and he just felt,

(36:29):
you know, like he still had those symptoms after the game.
So I would be surprised if we see T Higgins
on Sunday against paulk You and me both to go
back to the Trey Henderson thing for a minute, do
you think it's a little weird that, now that the
Bengals are all but eliminated, that Trey decides I'm going
to have surgery. This whole thing from the start has

(36:50):
been weird to me. That was the first thing I thought.
It's like, oh, now you're going to have surgery, and.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Now you go get the second opinion, or at some
point that the Bengals say, hey, look, we done all
we can do. You know, what do you want us
to do from this? Yeah? We have plenty more on
the Cincinnati Bengals. We've got an AFC North path. I
guess we'll do that. What would be the fall out
if the bengals did miss the playoffs? Joe Burrow's need
for perfection? We got contenders and pretenders. We've got quarterback tiers,

(37:19):
We've got college hoops to discuss. Joe Daniman will join
us at one o'clock. We'll finish up our number one
with a few more of your phone calls. Next on
the Home of the Bengals. It's ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station. Welcome back since the three sixty ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Let's grab a couple of phone

(37:42):
calls before we get to Joe Daniman to round out
our number one. Mark has given us a call.

Speaker 4 (37:46):
What's that? Mark?

Speaker 12 (37:48):
Yes, Yes, I want to make a comment about Sharber College.
If you remember last year, and I can't think of
his name, the left handed pitcher that went from White
Sox to the Red Sox who was almost the best
pitcher in the American League. Las Yes, Crochet, Crochet. Sorry,

(38:10):
I couldn't think of his name. Every time his name
was mentioned last year and they named the teams that
were interested in him, the Reds were always one of them.
The Reds were never getting him. The Reds were never
getting Kyle Schwarber. The Reds are never going to get
a big name player ever, ever, ever. As a diehard

(38:34):
Reds fans for I don't know how many years, seventy years,
at least seventy, They're never going to go anywhere with
this ownership. I mean, this is the reason this team stinks.
Making the playoffs last year was the worst thing could
have happened. They think they had a good season, they
think they have a good team.

Speaker 8 (38:55):
They do not.

Speaker 12 (38:57):
They have so many bad players on the steam and
they need so much improvement on each position, almost every position.
Every position has to be better. Go ahead, you want to.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Say you're good, You're good.

Speaker 12 (39:11):
No, I mean it's just a terrible team. Austin are
you there, Austin.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Right now, I'm here. I'm here.

Speaker 12 (39:17):
Mark, Yes, do you remember me calling in last summer
on Sunday's wanting to trade of the pitcher? What's his name? Yes, Homer, Yeah, yeah,
Hunter Hunter Green. See when you get old, you can't
remember names. Anyway, every every Sunday I would call in

(39:39):
and have a different trade with Hunter Green. Are they
seriously looking to trade him? Or is this just talk too?

Speaker 3 (39:45):
I think that's all tall.

Speaker 13 (39:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
I think they might listen, but I don't think they
would seriously consider trading him.

Speaker 12 (39:52):
Well, they need to because they need a hitter so bad.
All right, I'm gonna get off of here, Gonna close
with this comment that I've been wanting to make all seasons.
Oh boy, your boy, Joe, sure look good Sunday. Yes,
favorite game of the year are winning. They're not winning

(40:13):
the super Bowl this year, and they're not winning the
next year or the year after. Now, kick me off
the air, Mark.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
Now, we have a lot of Marks that call in
and uh. I would have a conversation almost identical to
that with Mark and Louisville every Sunday afternoon, following usually
a Red's loss on the Extra Inning Show. Down the
hall on WLW. He is really just a breath of
fresh air, is Mark and Louisville. Yes, and he hates

(40:44):
the Bengals, which is funny. Fair fair, Let's go back
up to line.

Speaker 6 (40:49):
What's up Mike, Hey, guys, enjoying the show today?

Speaker 5 (40:54):
Thank you.

Speaker 6 (40:55):
I just want to let you guys know, with Christmas
coming up, I'm going to a tough time right now,
and you're guys show and love show every day really
helps me get through the days. And I don't tell
you guys that I appreciate as much as I should
on how much I appreciate your show.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
We thank you, Mike. We appreciate you.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Yeah, we do appreciate you, man, Thank you.

Speaker 6 (41:18):
We're breaking news. The Bengals Dolphins game has been flexed
to four a m. So people can watch.

Speaker 5 (41:23):
The game and go to church.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
I like it.

Speaker 5 (41:26):
I like it.

Speaker 6 (41:29):
Game going on. Herbert Herbert guts that game out last
night because I I think a lot of guys might
not have played. They probably could have got out of plane.
Uh if if they had wanted to. I would think,
what was that thing on his arm, Tony.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
That little box, some type some type of just protective
cast that gives him enough flexibility that he can move
his fingers like he needs with his grip, but also
at the same time protect that that I would imagine
will open wound as much as possible.

Speaker 6 (42:03):
Yeah, because you could tell at the end of the
game they were showing the back of his arm and
there was quite a bit of boy you were right
about how about yes, sorb we honeying. Really, I know
you guys are having fun with it, but we knew
Shorber wouldn't come in here.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yeah. I wonder how much there was ever any interest
in how much it was just Kyle Schwarbur and his
agency saying, Okay, if we if we position this the
correct way, we could probably get more money. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (42:29):
I think you're exactly right on that.

Speaker 14 (42:31):
Yeah, why not?

Speaker 6 (42:32):
Why not because there's no way. Yeah, that's just the
way to do it. You just put some extra pressure
on the other teams and Bingo, especially the team he's
already listening. I must like it, and Tilly he must
like it in Philadelphia well enough. Plus he knows he's
on a team that has a chance to get a ring.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
So, like I said, if he likes it in Cincinnati
that much, when his five year deals up, he can
move back here and retire.

Speaker 6 (42:53):
Yeah, or or they could maybe get him when he
files for early Social Security at sixty two and picking
him up for less than what you guys.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Philip Rivers is working out at forty four, swar will
still be in his prime.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
Yeah. But by the way, it just it was just
made official. Philip Rivers is signing.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
We Go Baby.

Speaker 6 (43:15):
That is unbelievable. That's the last team he played for,
wasn't it. Yeah, you're not joking of.

Speaker 4 (43:23):
No, I'm not.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
That's being reported by Adam Schefter and others.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Right, I guess I don't have to go to Indy today,
then I guess that's off the table.

Speaker 6 (43:29):
Yeah, yes, yeah, Well he's got like fifteen kids, you
know he needs the money. Oh my god, he does
have like nine or.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Ten kids, right, he does, he does.

Speaker 6 (43:39):
It's unbelievable. Hey, I got a scheming question for you.
So when a team gets in the red zone, it
does is it impossible for defense to play zone or
is it impossible for a defense to play zone in
the lower red zone from ten yards in it.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
You'll actually see more teams play zone in the reds
unless you get to the low red zone, then a
lot of teams are going to go man. But the
red zone, with the field being shrunk, if you're able
to drop seven or even drop eight, there's just a
lot of zones you can eat up. Because the field
is shrunk, you don't have to worry about the deep
shot anymore. You can shrink that down. More teams in
the red zone will go zone. But once you get

(44:22):
to the lower red zone, then you see a lot
of man demand where they're going to bring more pressure.

Speaker 6 (44:26):
So in the lower red zone you're just not enough room.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Yeah, yep, okay, But.

Speaker 6 (44:31):
As a quarterback, then would you rather face the zone?

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Well, I guess man, But yeah, zone, you're gonna get
more time, Mike, I appreciate you, man, Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 6 (44:41):
Guys.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
Yes, I have a good one. We will get to
the rest of our phone calls. We've got all time
in the world an hour number three, So in between
two and three, we'll take more of your phone calls
for now. Joe Daniman stands by to join us next
on the Home of the Bengals ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station Cincinnati.

Speaker 8 (45:00):
Make us the number one pre set on your car
radio and on the free new and improved. iHeartRadio app
Free never sounded so good.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
ESPN fifteen thirty Sincy three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati,
Sponsorman Park by Cincy Shirts, Cincy Shirts all sincey all Day.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
Welcome back. It is our number two. We've got Joe
Daniman from Fox nineteen joining us in just a few
moments to talk a little Reds. We can talk a
little bit Bengals. But before any of that, Austin, it's
always good when we get taken care of in the
studio here, you know what I mean, Yes, it is.
And food drops are one of my favorite things, and

(45:46):
we just happen to have one from the Montgomery in
boat House. Now. I don't want to start family drama
because you know, I like both Montgomery and locations, but
the Boathouse has taken care of us quite a couple
of times. Here.

Speaker 15 (46:01):
Tom's always on vacation. Tom is on vacation. This is
our busiest time of the year. My brother Tom has
been on vacation for the last two weeks. Yeah, we
don't know when he's coming back. It's unbelievable. I've been
trying to train him for forty years.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Taking time. Yeah, yeah, thinking time to figure things out. Uh,
you have brought some some food for us today, some
some pulled pork, some ribs, and uh as nice as
that is. You guys are also taking care of folks
around the holidays as well, because I don't know if
many folks know this, because they think of Montgomery and
you think of dinner or big time occasions. You guys

(46:33):
are also open for lunch now as.

Speaker 15 (46:35):
Well, open for lunch through the holidays all the way
up to the twenty third, So I hope you'll come
down and see it's it's a great place to celebrate,
take your take your clients out, take your staff out
for lunch.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
Whatever.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
We'd love to see you. How big of a time
is it this year for holiday get togethers? In party?
You guys completely booked for those through the holidays.

Speaker 15 (46:52):
All the rooms are booked about every day, plenty of
room in the main dining room. So I hope you
come on down. What time, luck, What time are you
guys opening? We open at eleven o'clock for lunch, and
we serve continuously all day long until until nine thirty
every night.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Man is there anything better than the holiday season Montgomery
in We love it.

Speaker 15 (47:10):
It's just a great time. Everybody's happy. Everybody's having a
great time.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Now will your brother will Tom be back and time
for Christmas? We have no idea. He just goes what
we're gonna do with him? He just goes, yeah. I mean,
so there's a boat house in Montgumm, it's just self
self run. Now. He's got a good crew up there.

Speaker 15 (47:25):
He's got he's got a good crew, so they're probably
better off when he's not there.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
Absolutely any any specials anything like that you guys are
running during the holiday season.

Speaker 15 (47:36):
What we have our one hundred dollars gift cards on
sale for eighty dollars. Cool, best deal in town.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
So go for lunch yep, grab a gift card yep,
and save twenty bucks. Absolutely doesn't get any better on
that Christmas shopping done. It does not get any better
than that, sir. You guys are are obviously a staple
in this city. And uh and we're very appreciative of
this and and what you guys do uh here with
us as well. But uh, thank you for hopping in.

(48:01):
Thank you for opening the doors of lunch, Thank you
for having the last time you were in I told
you I'm gonna get my family down there. Yep, I'm
still waiting. I've yet to do so, Austin, I told
them during the break. It's not because of lack of
wanting to. It's just at times, can I get a
babysitter to take the kids down? Oh? Babysit? You guys
come down at eat Oh there you go.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
Kids that can't say no to that?

Speaker 2 (48:23):
All right, you guy? You guys just got a daycare.
You're opening up at the boat House. I'll do it
for you for sure. That's three of them, not just one.
I got them. I can handle them. Don't worry.

Speaker 15 (48:32):
Awesome, thank you so much for coming by, Tony, God
bless you. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
You have a holiday, great holiday season. Uh now through
December twenty third, Montgomery in the boat House. And we've
not been able to get a hold of Tom. But
are they doing that in Montgomery as well? Alright, eleven am.
You don't like Tom. Now's a good time to go
out there. The time to go eleven am. They open
up Montgomery and Montgomery location are down at the boat House,

(48:57):
and uh it is it's more than worth while thank
you for stopping by. Thanks, we appreciate you. We'll take
our quick break. We'll come back Joe Danaman, Fox nineteen.
We'll talk some Bengals and Reds next on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Welcome back since e three sixty.

(49:19):
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Let's dive right into it.
Our Tuesday guest bump back a couple of minutes. Well,
let's face it, we receive free Montgomery In. So Danaman
had to wait. I feel like I haven't talked to
Danaman in months. Yeah, because of the last couple of Tuesdays,
I've been out. But Danaman has joining us now from
Fox nineteen, Joey d what's going on.

Speaker 8 (49:39):
Hie Pike?

Speaker 4 (49:40):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (49:41):
I'm good? How are you?

Speaker 8 (49:43):
Let me ask you a question about eating Montgomery In?

Speaker 5 (49:46):
Sure?

Speaker 8 (49:47):
Now, my wife will not go to Montgomery In with
me because when I get a full slab of rip,
I won't stop maybe eating to clean my hands and
clean my face, because what's the point. Sure, I'm I'm

(50:08):
of the school that you eat the entire slab before
you start to clean, Otherwise you're going to go fifteen
napkins about twenty seven wet wipes. So why not just
wait until the very end and create a big mouth
of wet wipes and napkins when you're dute.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
So you're with me on that, I'm with you.

Speaker 4 (50:25):
Now.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
I'll lick the fingers a couple of times, but I'm not.
I'm not bringing the wet nap the wet wipes out
every time I pick up the ribs.

Speaker 8 (50:32):
It's anti licking of the finger guy.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
But like, do you not take a drink of anything
or do you put your your grubby paws on the
on the glass.

Speaker 8 (50:45):
Well, you're using the bottom of your palms then to
get your drink, right, you know, you're dripping it there
and drinking that way, not to use the fingers.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
That's well said, well said.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
I think we should put like a bucket of water,
you know, like you do with them, you know they
do with water colors instep and just you know, going
there and do that. I think that would I mean,
it makes sense, doesn't it. I mean, I think Dean's
still out there. I can run out there and ask
him real quick. I see if he'll incorporate that.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Okay, that was in your opinion, Joe was the Kyle
Schwarb or anything that actually had traction. I caught myself
buying in earlier. Today, I'm like, all right, there's enough
out there. This seems like it could be real. I
also think that there's an element to it where if
you're Kyle Schwarber, it's probably smart to lead on in
a way like that, for Philly to say, okay, we

(51:30):
will give you a fifth year, we'll bump this up
a little bit more. Did it ever feel like an actual,
realistic possibility for you.

Speaker 8 (51:37):
That's why I was always skeptical. And I go back
to even interviewing him in the summer when the Phillies
came to town and we asked him a couple of
questions about coming to Cincinnati. And I'm not saying he
was disingenuous, but you think about a guy who was
playing the long game of planting those seeds, even back
at the All Star Game, when he came to Cincinnati,
and when he visited Middletown a couple of weeks ago,

(51:59):
just to go out there and say, you know what,
it would be a cool thing. Young Kyle Schwarber always
dreamed of playing for the Reds and that bumps up.
Maybe the Phillies offered just a little bit. So I
can't really speak from his end on how much interest
there was or if he was using that as smoke
to get more money from the Phillies, But I can
say with all sincerity, the Reds made a realistic run

(52:21):
to try to get him. And when I say realistic,
obviously there were limitations. They were never going to be
able to reach the amount of money that Philadelphia ultimately
gave him. But when it came to getting creative with
the deal and being flexible and wanting to use deferred
money and being willing to trade players to make the
mass work, Yeah, the red saw an opportunity here to

(52:44):
sell steeps, to sell tickets, and to get a guy
in here who could be a big difference maker for
the team on the field and inside the clubhouse. Now
the question is how do they pivot? Because if they
were willing to go out and get creative and do
everything they could to try to get Kyle Schwarber, does
that then open the door for them to look at

(53:06):
other free agents, at least free agents on his tier.
I doubt it. It kind of felt like a rare
opportunity of a guy, maybe taking a bit of a
hometown discount, maybe making an exception in the red payroll
and financial plan to bring a guy like him in here.

(53:27):
So I don't know if they're going to pivot to
a Satan tier, but certainly I think their interest was
real for the Reds, and I think they actually did
make a pretty darn good effort to get him. It
just was the Phillies are a great team, and they
have a lot of money, and at the end that one.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Out switch gears to the Cincinnati Bengals. It was a
very Newsworthy day yesterday. Can you rate these three from
least to most surprising? Jermaine Burton has been released, Trey
Hendrickson's going to have surgery now, and the Dolphins Bengals
game was flexed at a prime.

Speaker 8 (54:03):
Time, So least surprising would be Jermaine Burton. I don't
know what took fourteen weeks, yeah, for this team to
finally cut bait and say we need to move on
from this guy. I will put number two at flex.
I think we all saw that coming for multiple weeks.
Even though Devenglos are now very interesting to watch with
Joe Burrow back and all of a sudden, the Dolphins

(54:25):
are a playoff contender who were as hot as anybody
in the AFC right now, and then Trey Hendrickson. It
just kind of felt like it was getting to this point. Certainly,
no one knew if it was going to get to surgery,
but we all kind of had an inkling in our
head that perhaps Trey Hendrickson's time in Cincinnati was over
and that he wouldn't take another snap for the Bengals.

(54:47):
And it feels that way unless some kind of a
miracle run happens and they can extend this season by
two months, and that feels about as likely as Lloyd
Christmas and you're telling me there's a chance, Yeah, I
would rank them leads surprised Jermaine Burton, then Flex and
then Trey Hendrickson. And it's a difficult thing with Trey Hendrickson,

(55:08):
right because it feels like in sports people pick sides.
And it felt like the pendulum swung a little bit
with Trey Hendrickson and the way things worked out with
the contract and the holdout and him not being here
at training camp, and then it swung again when he
was mysteriously out. We never knew exactly what the injury was,

(55:30):
and then finally it ultimately gets to this point and
I'm just curious how his time will be remembered in
Cincinnati if he ultimately doesn't come back here next year.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
So the time in Cincinnati, they do have the option
to franchise tag him again. When you look at the
current roster at defensive end, Shamar Stewart is an unknown,
Miles Murphy has played better, josepho size in a contract year.
Is there is there any path out there that you
do see the Bengals trying to franchise tag him and

(56:00):
whether that's tag him to play again next year or
tag him to make it easier to trade, is that
a viable option?

Speaker 8 (56:06):
I mean, you talk about leverage that Kyle Schwarmer had,
Imagine the leverage that Trey Hendrickson ye would have looking
at this roster, and I think if you look at
Sjamar Stewart, Miles Murphy, Joseph Aside that that certainly can't
be your top three defensive ends going into a season
and you expect to be a Super Bowl contending team.
Those guys might be rotational players, they might be solid pros,

(56:30):
but if you need a difference maker as a defensive end,
none of those three guys has shown they can be
a consistent chaos creator in the backfield. And the Bengals
had that with Trey Henderson, and when they had that,
they were at their absolute best defensively. But if you're
looking at this from the Bengals perspective on Trey Hendrickson,
even though he poisoned the water, so to speak, and

(56:53):
maybe this was Trey Hendrickson's play to upset ownership enough
that they just wanted to get rid of him, wipe
their hands clean, and let him go in the off season.
If you have an asset like Trey Hendrickson, it's hard
to let him walk out the door without tagging him
with the idea of trading him. Now, you would get

(57:15):
a compensatory pick if you didn't do that. That's a
very important factor here. But if I were looking at
the guy just as an asset, I would think the
best business decision moved to make for the Bengals would
be to tag him with the idea of trading him.
But they just found out this season that maybe the

(57:35):
trade market for Trey Hendrickson isn't as good as they
thought it would be, and now he's coming off what's
pretty major surgery. When you're talking about a core muscle
surgery that would keep him out for a month and
a half, what's the trademarket going to be for a
guy that's his age coming off that surgery and has
proven he can be kind of difficult to work with,

(57:56):
and you don't want to get stuck paying whatever the
price will be for Trey Hendrickson and then not have
a trade partner.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
The feel around this team, Joe, in your opinion, because
it felt and I thought they took that ten point
lead in the fourth quarter against Buffalo, like, man, they
can do this, that they can make this run and
then to have it fall apart in a way that's
all too familiar this year, the third and fifteen scramble
from Josh Allen, which put the final nail in the coffin.
From just a team standpoint, from just a vibe standpoint, Joe,

(58:25):
where do you feel like this team is right now
with four games remaining, but dealing with such a blow.

Speaker 8 (58:30):
On Sunday, It's the most what could have been feeling
inside that room that I've felt for the Cincinnati Bengalis
because what we saw Sunday was it. I mean, they're
the Bangles are holding the Bill to eighteen points midway
through the fourth quarter, Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase and T
Higgins look like their elite selves, and you say to yourself,

(58:55):
oh my gosh, the James Cook fumble. This is what
it felt like toenty twenty one. In twenty twenty two
that when the Bengals needed a play. I thought back
immediately when James Cook fumbled to the Von Bell Ramandre
Stevenson fumble inside the five yard vine against New England Patriots,
and those kinds of feelings where it just felt like
the Bengals were always going to find a way to

(59:18):
get a win, even when it felt like they deserve
to lose a game. And it felt that way on
Sunday in Buffalo against there should be playoff team in December.
The Bengals are going to come here and do this
and already being pointed at as kind of the eight team,
the dangerous team again in the AFC North. Now that
talk outside of the Cincinnati from all the national talking

(59:40):
heads is going to get even louder, and the Bengals
might do this. They might grab momentum and then you
just realize in twenty twenty five, the defense just can't
get stops when they absolutely have to have them. And that,
to me was my worry before the game. I figured
it would be a four quarter game. I figured the
Bengals would have a chance to win the game in

(01:00:00):
the fourth quarter, But could they get that one or
two stops they have to get and they couldn't do it. Yeah,
And it's epitomized by third and fifteen. Third and fifteen,
and no one has eyes on the quarterback running free
for twenty yards in a game stealing play.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
The quarterback Josh Allen, by the way, not Philip Rivers.

Speaker 8 (01:00:25):
Yees right, we all know everybody knows, okay, Josh Allen's
either going to take a safe pass here in a
completion to keep the clock rolling, or he's going to
be looking to run to keep the clock rolling and
try to get it first down. And it's a lack
of instincts right on the defense. That's gonna be the
biggest thing. We can talk about talent and coaching and whatever,
but there is a lack of instincts from too many

(01:00:47):
players on this defense. And you saw it on that
play on.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
The offensive side. Of the ball. I was surprised how
many folks I had in my mentions talking about Joe Burrow.
Let them down. This is Joe Burrow. Losses on Joe Burrow.
He made a bad play. I think if he gets
that snap cleanly, he can change arm angles and he
made the right read in my opinion, just made a
bad play. Sho should have ate it or should have
thrown the ball away. He didn't. The next play. That's

(01:01:12):
a fluke thing where a defensive lineman gets his hand
on the ball, but it drove into me. Over the
last couple of days, Joe Joe Burrow essentially has to
play perfect football for this team to have a chance
to win. And I can't imagine how stressful and frustrating
that would be as a player to have that feeling
every single game.

Speaker 8 (01:01:32):
And he said that publicly before that he has to
play damn near perfect for this team to win games,
and especially with this defense in twenty twenty five, and yes,
that has to be It has to be frustrating. And
you think about where Joe Burrow is now. He turns
twenty nine, if I'm not mistaken, in the next couple

(01:01:53):
of days, and so we're talking about a quarterback who
next year turns thirty years old, and when we talk
about the window all the time with Joe Burrow, and
the window is not closed, and he's got so much
good football left in him, but he's not getting younger,
and it's another year wasted of a quarterback who can
do what he did on Sunday against Josh Allen and

(01:02:14):
the Buffalo Bills. The Bills came into that game guys
right number one in the NFL in pass defense, giving
up one hundred and sixty yards per game, and Joe
Burrow threw for two hundred and eighty yards and four
touchdowns against the Buffalo Bills. They scored thirty four points.
I mean, how hard must it be for a quarterback

(01:02:36):
who throws for these kinds of numbers, who throws for
this many touchdowns, and the team just keeps losing games,
And it's just like us watching the team. It has
to be even harder for him being on the team,
looking around the room, watching what they are on defense
and wondering what is there to show for for a

(01:02:56):
team who knew what they had to fix, who zeroed
in on the defense in the off season, changing the
coordinator all the draft picks, adding a free agent or
two that that haven't been real difference makers this year?
What is there to show for for all that change?
And if you're Joe Burrow, that's got to be the
scariest thing going forward. Sure, any quarterback and Patrick Mahons

(01:03:17):
might not make the playoffs this year. You're not going
to make the playoffs every single year, and at some
point you just have to kind of eat a season
and hope your team sees the mistakes that they have
and the shortcomings they have and fix those holes. And
the Kansas City Chiefs will. The problem is the Bengals
have had multiple off seasons to look at the holes,
find their shortcomings and haven't been able to fix them yet.

(01:03:39):
So if you're Joe Burrow, how frustrating must that be
to think about next year? Okay, they spend all this
time in the off season, all this capital in the draft,
and the change is minimal for the Bengals right now,
that has to be frustrated.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
It's a big positive though on offense has been the
offensive line. I mean they're playing as good as the
Bengals offensive line has played in like ten years. How
do you explain that? Turnaround and have they done anything
different or is it just reps have equalled better performance.

Speaker 8 (01:04:12):
I certainly think the fact that they settled in on
Dalton Reisner being that guy has really helped this team
in this offensive line gel And sometimes you look back
at the guys life Orlando Brown and Ted Kris who
midseason had really bad performances. Sometimes it's a wake up
call and they just played better football because of it.

(01:04:34):
But certainly the fact that Dalton Reisner has come in
and stabilized that position has helped this team a lot.
They're running the ball better, they're protecting the quarterback better,
and when you do that with all these weapons. Right now,
the Bengals are putting up all these points. I don't
even know what they're averaging with Joe Burrow as quarterback,
But when you score thirty four in Buffalo and you

(01:04:56):
score a number of points that this teammate, this team
has scored even with Joe Flacco. Going back to Flacco,
and that was the one thing we talked about when
he got traded for here in Cincinnati's how are you
going to protect a quarterback who can't move with this
offensive line? And they've answered the belt and good on them.
But again, when you look at this team, it's offense

(01:05:19):
is never the problem. It almost always seems and it
always points back to a defense to me that just
lacks instincts, that that lacks playmakers. And right now it's
obviously dragging a season down to the point where they
face elimination in week fifteen.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
Going forward, for this team, you mentioned facing elimination, and
I know that the door is still slightly open. Do
you change how you handle the final games on the
schedule if you are officially eliminated from playoff contention? Or
do you play every game on the schedule the same
way going out?

Speaker 8 (01:05:54):
Is this you hinting that possibly.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
Not playing Joe Burrow that would be it?

Speaker 8 (01:05:58):
Yes, No, I've come around to understanding what Joe is about.
And you know, we can talk here about protecting a
quarterback from himself and putting himself in harm's way, and
the so many questions this organization has in the off season.

(01:06:19):
So the one question they don't need to add that
mountain is their quarterback health. But if Joe is built
and wired one way to play football, he is dead
now multiple times. It's what I love to do, It's
what I get paid to do and he wants to
put on a show, and people will push back that

(01:06:40):
athletes are entertainers, and yeah, I get that, But if
he's paid to put on a show and he wants
to put on a show, let the man cook. Let
him do what he wants to do. Now, if you
get the week eighteen and he's healthy and it means
absolutely nothing, it's the final game of the season, certainly
you might bring him out a little bit earlier, just

(01:07:01):
just to protect him. But we still have four games left.

Speaker 4 (01:07:05):
And you know.

Speaker 8 (01:07:05):
How NFL coaches and NFL players are wired to win.
This is the business they're in. They're in the business
of winning games, even if it doesn't mean anything to
playoff contention. I just look back to the game against
Miami when they almost lost Joe Burrow. That's just what
NFL coaches and players do. They're wired to try to win.

(01:07:28):
And if Joe wants to play, I think he's going
to and I'm on board with it now. I wasn't
a few weeks ago, but the way he's played, the
way he's talked about it has changed my opinion and
I'm looking forward to watching what he does here the
next few weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
I always look forward to what you have coming up
over the next couple of weeks. I'm more interested in
what you have coming up this week. Tell us more
about anything Fox nineteen's got going on.

Speaker 8 (01:07:53):
Still waiting for this Sincy three to sixty night at
Bengals Now still waiting or Austin and Tony to show
up to our show live tomorrow night, Wednesday night, Newport
on the Levee at six o'clock. Miles Murphy will be
one of our guests. We are working on a second guest.

(01:08:14):
Keep locked to my socials for that announcement tomorrow. As
we go inside the bank was the locker room and
beg players with a four to nine record to make
public appearances in front of their fans. It's an Olympic event.
You know how funny this is. I don't want to
give away too much and peel the curtain back, but
you should see. Guys like Evan McPherson gets the biggest

(01:08:36):
kick out of watching the Fox nineteen crew go around
the locker room trying to find guests for this show.

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
I would imagine you got a no from Trey Hendrickson.

Speaker 8 (01:08:48):
Trey Henderson's agent actually send us an email a few
months ago saying that Trey would like to be on
the show. I said, are you sure about that?

Speaker 6 (01:08:55):
Are you really sure about that?

Speaker 8 (01:08:58):
But we've tried to get We tried to get Sean
Clifford recently and Sean couldn't make it for whatever reason.
And Evan's like, man, that's tough. Jar Rapple says to him.
He's like, we can't even get the third string quarterback
and Evan goes, no, no, no, he's the fourth drift.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
Well that's to keep trying, keep trying, Danaman, We appreciate you.
Have a great rest of your week. Thank you. Joe
Daniman from Fox nineteen. This is since he three sixty.
Your talkbacks next, Oh goodness. ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station.
Do you owe ten thousand dollars or more to the irs?

Speaker 14 (01:09:36):
Like Joe talkbacks, Press the microphone and record your message
for Austin in tone, Please keep it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:44):
Clean and don't be mean.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
Yeah, don't be me and.

Speaker 4 (01:09:47):
A sprinkle sprinkled drip drips.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
It's that time.

Speaker 14 (01:09:50):
But talkbacks, it's our favorite tarter since three sixty, So Austin, buddy,
play those bunkbacks on your screen.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Please try not to sabotage, dude, dude, no sabotaging for
today's talkbacks.

Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
Something that's that's interesting about the Philip Rivers thing. JJ Watt,
who I believe has the Colts game. Oh, he said, Uh,
fun fact learned in production meetings. Philip Rivers ran the
same offense as the Colts for his son Gunner's high
school team this year. Oh, he said. He and Shane
Stiken spoke weakly about it, discussing plays and even film,

(01:10:30):
So clearly there's already some familiarity there. So Phil Rivers
three under yard, three tugs. Yeah you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
No, Now, I wouldn't put it past him.

Speaker 16 (01:10:41):
Okay, So I'm assuming you guys have heard of the
hippocraticos For those who have not, it's the oath all
doctors take where they swear to do no harm for
the patient. I'm also assuming the professional that assessed t
higgins neurological status during the game was a medical doctor.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
Now, how that hell did that doctor clear him during
the game when he's.

Speaker 16 (01:10:59):
Clearly rad and he had just gotten out of concussion protocol,
and then after the game he fails concussion protocol and
he's back in it is.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
It is mind bobbing the Dodgers putting their license on
the line. Something stinks, guys.

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
It is a surreal situation. It is completely understand.

Speaker 17 (01:11:15):
Hey, fellas, I would like to say a little piece
on Trey Hendrickson here. He got paid, he jaked the
season and then he ft the Bengals.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
In the ah wow.

Speaker 17 (01:11:28):
Other NFL teams see this, and he's played his last
game in the league.

Speaker 14 (01:11:32):
This is an excuseable get out of here you want.

Speaker 18 (01:11:34):
He's a guard, hey Fellas, it's nam coming out of retirement.
Had to weigh in on yesterday's talkbacks. Listen, Tony, I
get it, man, It's not Joe Burrow's fault. But we've
seen this before. Last year against the Chiefs, Man, we
had a ball in the lead and Joe Burrow fumbles.
Last year against the Baltimore Ravens, we have the ball

(01:11:55):
in the lead and Joe Burrow throws an interception.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
What are we doing, man?

Speaker 8 (01:11:59):
I play with.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
Thank you, Ffty.

Speaker 19 (01:12:03):
Pick one the better defender, the eleven man Bengals defense
or the one piece of ammunition in the shirt pocket
of Deputy Barney five protecting Mayberry.

Speaker 20 (01:12:19):
Why come on, Hi, this is Mark with personal Loan Underwriting,
and I was just calling to let you know that
you've been approved for your previous loan request up to
fifty seven thousand dollars. Just give us a call back
at five one, three seven nine fifteen thirty with your
social Security number and we'll get you taken care of.

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
Okay, thank you, savior.

Speaker 21 (01:12:45):
Fans are adorable with your eight thousand days since well
here's the number. It's been two hundred and sixty one
days since your old lady left you for another man.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
Oh bugget gosh, sick could finish that one.

Speaker 8 (01:13:02):
Well.

Speaker 14 (01:13:02):
Isn't this a fun Tuesday in Cincinnati sports?

Speaker 22 (01:13:06):
Glad we have you guys. Thanks Happy Tuesday.

Speaker 23 (01:13:14):
The sad thing for me about Burton is if they'd
have spent five minutes talking to Kirby Smarter Nick Saban,
they never would have drafted the guy. They let whosh
overrun that whole decision making process. And Zach pounding on
the table after that third round pick is gonna haun.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
Us for years.

Speaker 3 (01:13:29):
I'll never forget that video.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Who's so fired up? They were ready, man, they were.

Speaker 22 (01:13:35):
Marcus from the groove.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
I just don't know.

Speaker 13 (01:13:41):
Why in this city this great city where we have Skyline,
Penn Station Sancy shirts with their great Great T shirts
and ideas the best sports talk show radio. Why can't
we have anything nice when it comes from sports.

Speaker 22 (01:14:01):
I just don't get it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:03):
We did get the Kelly Cup back in two thousand
and eight, Breach.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
Quick doubled dip.

Speaker 23 (01:14:08):
If Schwarber were from Montana, nobody in the fan base
would have gotten so wound up on this. The fact
that he was from Middletown has no bearing on whether
the Reds are going to open their wallets or not.

Speaker 3 (01:14:19):
I think it did though. I think that was part
of it. Yeah, which which is maybe part of the problem.
Like if it took a guy from here to even
consider it, then that's an issue. But I do think
it played a role.

Speaker 24 (01:14:33):
I know everybody's kind of mad that the Reds missed
down on Kyle Schwarber, but I think this is a
big opportunity for Nick Crawl. I'm not going to underestimate
his ability to find the next injury riddled utility player
that we're going to hope as a bounce back season.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
Okay, good point. Who do they go with that?

Speaker 25 (01:14:50):
Good question? Just because I'm curious. So if Philip Rivers
was to work out, and they hired him and he
started on Sunday against Seattle or whatever. Would he then
be disqualified from the Hall of Fame ballot because isn't
there supposed to be like a five year waiting period
in between playing and nomination or something. I don't know, thoughts.

Speaker 3 (01:15:09):
I think he has to take a snap from what
I read, if he takes a snap with the Colts,
it resets his clock, so you would have to wait
another five years. Okay, if he were to get into there,
to even be on the ballot.

Speaker 14 (01:15:23):
Hello, this is former President Ronald Reagan and well following
this year's Bengals team reminds me of that time when
I had to walk behind the presidential limo in a
long parade. It's left me exhausted.

Speaker 26 (01:15:41):
Tough guys, been good hooding Kentucky. Always talked about Schwoburn man.
It's got me missing baseball just thinking how close we
was to win it this year. I mean, we had
the Dodgers on the ropes.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
He had that lead early.

Speaker 26 (01:15:50):
If we could just held on that second game, no
chance we'd have lost that third game with abot pitching man,
we was right there. I'm looking forward to the start
of the new season. How many days to pitchers and
catches from.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
No, I don't know, you dare if I don't know.

Speaker 27 (01:16:02):
What's more pathetic is that Bob Chiefs you need refusing
to pay anyone, but the fact he has his media
buddies run around town and tell us all that they
had a chance, they never had a chance, and now
they don't have a chance the next season.

Speaker 22 (01:16:14):
Imagine what one would have done to this line up,
to this fandom.

Speaker 27 (01:16:17):
You would have increased the tendance having the hometown guy
here refuse to do it. And now we're going to
try and back our way into the playoffs again with
eighty wins, just to be knocked out in the first round.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
Nothing ever changes in this town.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
Man, I wish I could say he was wrong.

Speaker 22 (01:16:31):
Tough Tony de.

Speaker 5 (01:16:35):
Deck Georgia the valley, you could see you. I'm a
huge coward.

Speaker 8 (01:16:39):
I haven't left.

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
Any talkbacks in a couple of.

Speaker 13 (01:16:42):
Weeks since my beloved blue lost Ohio State.

Speaker 8 (01:16:46):
Oh, let's fishing it.

Speaker 5 (01:16:48):
I'm gonna go smoke a couple of years.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
Thanks George.

Speaker 21 (01:16:52):
The last few days being a Cincinnati sports fan really blows.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
That's all I got tough.

Speaker 4 (01:16:58):
I get it, man.

Speaker 5 (01:17:01):
Hey, it's Will in Mainville.

Speaker 23 (01:17:03):
And the reason the Bengals lost Sunday happened with eight
minutes left, when.

Speaker 5 (01:17:08):
The Bengals scored a touchdown and they've bat them.

Speaker 28 (01:17:11):
Uhh I heard him say damn and then he said
that's the dagger for the Bengals to put in.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
Oh who said that? Who did?

Speaker 29 (01:17:24):
Hey guys, Hey, yeah, Austin, I think yesterday hit the nail.

Speaker 14 (01:17:28):
On the head.

Speaker 29 (01:17:28):
They just need to have the twelve best teams in
this whole playoff thing. And uh, I don't think UC's
got a chance against Navy unless they pulled the seven
diamond defense out of the myth Bault, because uh, I
think Navy's is gonna run all over that three stack.
It just ain't gonna work too well. I don't think
that's all I got, guys, with talk to you later.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
We'll probably like a month is enough time to come
up with the defense, to prepare for what the midshipmen.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
Have to do. Oh yeah, I would imagine they're gonna
think they're going to dial into that, you know, dial
in Tyson Vite checkers.

Speaker 30 (01:18:02):
Somebody brought this up to me and I'd never really
thought about it, But.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
Has there ever been a.

Speaker 30 (01:18:08):
Quarterback that was top five in the league at the
time he was playing and missed the playoffs three years
in a row. Because that's what's about to happen with
Burrow and the Bengals. I understand he was hurt earlier
this year, but let's be honest, they wouldn't have made
it anyways, because Flacco played about as good as you
can play.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
I mean, you couldn't played much better.

Speaker 3 (01:18:25):
Not necessarily true.

Speaker 30 (01:18:27):
That is a huge indictment on this franchise.

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
Flaco played pretty terrible in the last two games that
he played. Yeah, the first one that comes to mind
for me would have been Matthew Stafford.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
All those years in Detroit. Yeah, but I don't know.
And I tried to think of doing high energy how we.

Speaker 31 (01:18:50):
Field Williams, Darnell Burton, Deontay Vaughn, oh and the great
Lazelle Durden.

Speaker 4 (01:18:58):
And now.

Speaker 2 (01:19:00):
Let's add in by by Miller.

Speaker 4 (01:19:02):
Wait, what.

Speaker 32 (01:19:05):
Don't feel bad, Tony? I took the bait too, repping
the city out here in Sonny hot Zona?

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
What up, Tony?

Speaker 4 (01:19:10):
What up? Buddy? Yup?

Speaker 5 (01:19:12):
Yup?

Speaker 32 (01:19:12):
Jeff Carr had me too, man, I was sitting there
looking like, Yo, this is gonna happen. But it is
what it is. When you're a diehard fans, you're gonna
live by the swore, You're gonna die by the sword.

Speaker 2 (01:19:21):
Yo.

Speaker 32 (01:19:22):
James Rapene got me wondering about Joe Burrow also having
Palmer flashbacks. Last talk back y'all for a little bit,
because me and a wife is heading to Floriada, Florida.

Speaker 4 (01:19:33):
On the cruise.

Speaker 3 (01:19:33):
My jeez, I seen you lady.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
You can't hide that money, ron.

Speaker 3 (01:19:39):
He said he wants to feel a little bit of
heat and humidity instead of being in the Florida. Is
James Rapine putting Burrow in the Palmer boat?

Speaker 2 (01:19:48):
Is he doing that?

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
Because if he is, he'll never be on this program
ever again.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
Well, James has been itching to be because he keeps
tagging all this stuff. Hey, I think you all need
to check on your boy Jeff Carr. He's over there
TikTok making posts and they don't look good.

Speaker 33 (01:20:02):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
This boy wonted number twelve. He is down in the dumps. Now.

Speaker 34 (01:20:05):
Look, we might have lost out on Adam Done two
point zero, but for Crawl to come out and say
our financial goal is to break even each year. You
had your highest attendance rating since twenty fifteen last season.
Don't tell me you can't go out there and spend
more money. If I got to watch the Pittsburgh Pirates
go out here and go all in and build around
Paul Schemes, What in the world are we doing?

Speaker 22 (01:20:24):
How are we looking? Not good?

Speaker 30 (01:20:38):
They told us last night we're going to need him
this week.

Speaker 8 (01:20:47):
From Alabama A bit moore that catch number four.

Speaker 11 (01:21:02):
I told myself I was not going to get my
hopes up. Don't believe the story. But then I did.
And it's not even like they went down swinging and missing.

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
Yeah no, no, no no.

Speaker 11 (01:21:13):
They were up at the bottom of the ninth bases
loaded and all they needed was a base hit, and
they didn't swing. They went down looking un serious organization
on serious ownership. Sell the team, Bob, get.

Speaker 31 (01:21:31):
Hey, guys, Jeff and you Richmond, Happy Tuesday. Three quick
points for you. Trey Hendrickson. I would never allow him
to put on a Bengals uniform again. Nick Krawl did
what Nick Krawl does, which is absolutely nothing. I would
not look for them to make a move and they'll
lose ninety games this year again, what a fun run

(01:21:52):
it was for one year Tony. Finally, John Cunningham, why
is there not more heat on him for what he's doing?

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
I don't know. I don't have the Joe in Baltimore.

Speaker 35 (01:22:06):
I might be crazy, but I got a funny feeling.
The Bengals are going to beat the Ravens on Sunday,
the Dolphins are going to beat the Steelers Monday night,
and we're all going to be listening to you guys
on Monday, yeah, listening about how we're only two games
back with three to go.

Speaker 4 (01:22:23):
Yep.

Speaker 35 (01:22:23):
Knowing the Ravens play New England and Pittsburgh plays the Lions,
here's a real shot.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
Pittsburgh Bengals need to win four in a row, which,
by the way, they've won four out of thirteen games
this year, but they do need to win four in
a row. Baltimore needs to go too and two, and
the Pittsburgh Steelers need to finish the season one and three.
There's your path there it is. We're out of time.
We'll finish up Hour two next football in the Natty.
Football in the Natty. We'll open up the phone lines

(01:22:50):
in hour number three. We still got a lot to
get to on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station thanks
to sin t Shirts from the Tombar.

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
This is Football in the NATI lunch you and part
by blood Light and by Oakley Greens on ESPN fifteen
point thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
Really quickly, our number three is next. This is Sincy
three sixty. Thanks to our friends at Cincy Shirts. We
will get to your phone calls to kick off the
third and final hour of the show. We'll check in
with Mo later in the afternoon. I did mention before
we went to break based on a talkback, what that
playoff path, although small, would be for the Cincinnati Bengals,

(01:23:30):
it's really quite simple. In the AFC North, the Bengals
would have to do something that they've obviously taken thirteen
games to do, which is acquire four more wins on
the season, those being against the Ravens, Dolphins, Cardinals, and Browns.
If the Bengals could do that, they would then need
the Baltimore Ravens to lose two of their final four,

(01:23:51):
and if the Bengals went out, that means the Ravens
would have to lose one of their final three Ravens
play after the Bengals, the Patriots, the Packers, and the
Steelers think it's out of the question Austin to say, Okay,
the Ravens could lose one of those three. The other
thing that the Bengals would need to happen would be
the Pittsburgh Steelers need to go one in three down
the stretch. Pittsburgh's final remaining schedule against the Miami Dolphins

(01:24:17):
in Pittsburgh Monday Night Football this coming Monday. They are
on the road at Detroit the following week. They then
go to Cleveland, which is always a war, and then
they finish the season at home against the Baltimore Ravens.
Which of those three is the least likely to happen
Bengals win four in a row. No, Pittsburgh, I would

(01:24:42):
think Pittsburgh. They played semi decent. Yeah on Sunday. Now,
I don't believe in them. They've been up and down,
but it may If they lose against the Dolphins, then
it gets interesting. Yeah, it really does.

Speaker 3 (01:24:53):
And you know, obviously the Dolphins winning doesn't really matters.

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
The Bengals lose, then we won't have any more of
these conversations this year. No, they would be mathematically limiting.

Speaker 3 (01:25:04):
There's nothing I want more than to go through that
scenario that our talkbacker just left.

Speaker 2 (01:25:10):
Yep, that Monday conversation. We're all Dolphins fans. By the way,
the Bengals are doing something that they never ever do
on Sunday when they play the Baltimore Ravens at pay
Corpse Stadium. It will be the date of the game
is December fourteenth. Yeah, the Bengals will be wearing their

(01:25:30):
orange helmets, white jerseys, white socks, and them orange britches.
So the Bengals are going orange, white, orange white at home.

Speaker 5 (01:25:45):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:25:46):
They've worn white at home before often in the first
two or three weeks of the season. They have never
worn white to my knowledge, at home in the month
of December, and they certainly have never worn the white
on orange at home.

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
Okay, at any point, there's your Uni combo.

Speaker 3 (01:26:04):
So the Bengals obviously gonna seems like force the Ravens
into wearing purple on Baltimore on Sunday. And you know
it's gonna be tough for them because the heat. Yeah,
I don't know if you saw the forecast. We were
talking about this before the game, because I don't have
anything to do on Sunday week, Maybe I'll go to
the game. I looked up the forecast. Eighteen degrees.

Speaker 2 (01:26:25):
There we go. Good seats still available? Yeah boy, our
number three. More Bengals, some college hoops. I hate it.
By the way, I don't think we should be wearing
white on orange at home. Your phone calls in, mowegger
all still ahead? Yeah? Next on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati
Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
You've been listening to Football in the NATI On ESPN
fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. This
is Tony Pikes since EAT three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati,
sponsored in part by Penn Station East Coast Subs, hand

(01:27:05):
crept it I grilled subs, fresh cut fries and lemonade.
It's all about good taste. Penn Station East Coast Subs
order on mine today. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (01:27:23):
Welcome back our three since E three sixty on ESPN
fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station. Thanks to our good friends
at Penn Station. Do you know Austin that on Tuesdays
during football season, Penn Station partners up with the Bengals.

(01:27:43):
Did you know this. I did not have a deal
going on with the Bengals where if you order any
sized sub you get a free small sub as well.
That's pretty good. Now it's paired with the Bengals game days.
It's called who Day Tuesdays. It's a free small sub
with any sub purchase every Twoday after a Bengal game.
You know what they did. That's so nice. It's available
after wins or losses. Oh, that's cool. So you don't

(01:28:06):
wait when they win. You could go into a Penn
Station today or use online promo code Bengals twenty five
and get a free small sub just by purchasing any
other size sub.

Speaker 3 (01:28:16):
Yeah, I mean you can't call Penn Station, you know,
fair Weather Partners at all.

Speaker 2 (01:28:21):
Thanks to Penn Station. Thank you for listening. Get the
phone calls in just a few seconds. You know, Austin
said you had some Elie Day La Cruz news. I
can imagine that this is just the Red's pivoting, not
getting Kyle Schwarber, just signing Ellie to a massive deal.

Speaker 3 (01:28:34):
No's it's not that. But Gordon Wittenmeyer, who of course
covers the Reds sometimes for Cincinnati dot Com, is I
believe at the MLB Winter Meetings and at the moment
the World Baseball Classic teams are being announced. Well, the
manager for the Dominican Republic, which is Ellie's home country,

(01:28:56):
is Albert Poolholes. Albert Poolholes, according to Gordon Wittenmeyer, said
he talked to Ellie de la Cruz last night and
the Red shortstop is indeed committed to playing for the
Dominican Republic in the World Baseball Classic. Okay, so there's
something to keep an eye out on there. As far
as I know, he's the only Red that is going

(01:29:17):
to play. There might be one more, but Ellie de
la Cruz. According to Gordon Wittmeyer, Albert Poolhols is going
to play, although it hasn't been officially announced.

Speaker 2 (01:29:30):
All right, if you missed it earlier. A couple of
things happening in Major League Baseball. Edwin Diaz, the All
Star closer for the Mets, is now a Los Angeles Dodger,
and Kyle Schwarber is back to the Philadelphia Phillies on
a five year, one hundred and fifty million dollar deal.

Speaker 3 (01:29:47):
I did put a poll question up on Twitter at
Audi Elmore a U T Y E L M O
R E if you want to go vote. The Reds
pursuit of Kyle Schwarber was which of the following kicking tires,
taking a test drive, or driving around the lot right now?
Forty nine percent say kicking the tires, Oh, forty one

(01:30:09):
percent say driving around the lot, and nine percent say
taking a test drive. I think it was closer to
taking a test drive. Mo chimed in. Most said they
took a look at the sticker.

Speaker 2 (01:30:25):
Moe also said that, uh, he's adding a new item
to his muted words on social media.

Speaker 3 (01:30:31):
Oh you really?

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
What's that league average defense? Why is he ruins everything?
What's wrong with that? You just don't want to hear
it anymore? No, but like, what's the deal? I got
to ask him this? Do you want to know his
other ones? Sure? Well I know someone Belichick girlfriend of course,
Bengals cash problem, Yeah, Elon Musk fair, Kanye very fair,

(01:30:54):
Mattress Mac Yes, Ruin college basketball agreed, Ruin college football agreed,
Nevada game. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:31:01):
I have no beef with any of those except the
league average defense?

Speaker 2 (01:31:04):
Why not? They don't want to hear about anymore? Then't
want to hear about these league average defense? All the
Bengals need to do is be a league average defense.

Speaker 3 (01:31:11):
Why can't average be a goal for someone who's well
below average?

Speaker 2 (01:31:16):
Just be average? It's the new motto. I mean, are
we getting a new banner in this studio? By the way,
I don't got time for banners. I got a new laptop.
I can't get it to print anything. Man, Okay, from
you know how it is with the sure I get it.
I get it, you know more than most. Yeah, did
your laptop still work? Do they deactivate it? It was

(01:31:36):
deactivated for quite some time. It was it was useless.
It's rendered useless. I know that feeling. Uh, what's up, John?
How are you?

Speaker 5 (01:31:47):
What do you guys working? Get the pensa gone?

Speaker 2 (01:31:50):
Might as well be wow.

Speaker 28 (01:31:53):
I think as far as the kicking the tires, the
Reds probably just looked online at whatever vehicle they were
interested in them.

Speaker 5 (01:31:59):
Just you know, X out.

Speaker 4 (01:32:02):
Book value.

Speaker 28 (01:32:03):
Yeah, pretty much, you know, I mean, I know they
were kicking the tires, is what they are saying. Or
they were interested in Kyle forber but you know, of
course I'm interested in taking dou a leap out for lunch.

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
But that's not gonna happen either.

Speaker 5 (01:32:13):
So we'll do the best we can with that.

Speaker 28 (01:32:16):
As far as Moe's league average defense, that's want to
run these numbers by you guys. In the last two seasons,
which is thirty games, the Bengals have scored thirty three
or more points and.

Speaker 5 (01:32:25):
Eleven of those games. In those eleven games.

Speaker 28 (01:32:27):
They have four wins, seven losses. That's the thirty six
percent winning percentage when scoring thirty three or more points.
And it happened Sunday in Buffalo. The rest of the
league the other thirty one teams and they scored thirty
three or more points win ninety percent.

Speaker 8 (01:32:39):
Of their games.

Speaker 28 (01:32:40):
If they had a league average defense, they would have
had five more wins over the last two years, would
have made the playoffs last year, it would probably in
control of winning the North this year. So a league
average defense would be very much welcome for this team.
And again it's it's just a recurring problem for this
team that you know, scored thirty four points and still
lose by five. I mean, heck, they forty they scored

(01:33:01):
forty two against the Bears and lost to them forty
seven forty two.

Speaker 2 (01:33:04):
Yep. I mean, there's there's no other way around it.
That I mentioned earlier, in the nine losses, the defense
is given up thirty six point one points per game.
I mean, it's just that there's no other way around that.
There's no other way around it.

Speaker 28 (01:33:18):
And when you look at the defense, to me, I mean,
obviously you guys know more than I and so he's
played at a very high level. It seems like the
defensive lineman just want to engauge with the blocker. So
that's supposed to free up linebackers to make plays. They
don't have linebackers that can make plays. That's the point
we're seeing. Yeah, seven eight yard runs without anybody getting there.

Speaker 2 (01:33:37):
That's the problem normally. And I think that was a
little bit around the idea of TJ. Slayton is saying, Okay,
let's get a guy that can occupy some blockers and
then let's let the linebackers play downhill. That that's the
ultimate goal. And I compare it to UC. When Dante
Corleone is healthy, it allows the linebackers of UC in
a three three five to be active when he's not
in and when the offensive line can get to the

(01:34:00):
second level, makes it a lot easier to run the ball.
The problem for the Bengals is I feel like a
lot of times the linebackers are able to run free
and they're still not able to do anything, and that
is a linebacker issue. I saw a stat yesterday that
I believe Orin Burks is the worst coverage linebacker in
the NFL. Demetrius knighta's rank by Pro Football Focus as

(01:34:22):
the worst graded linebacker in the NFL, and Barrett Carter
gives up the most yards per reception of any linebacker
in the NFL. That's not a good trio for the Bengals.
No other than that.

Speaker 28 (01:34:32):
How is the play, Missus Lincoln? I mean, you know,
when you really just look at all that stuff, it's
very disheightening because they did spend some draft picks at linebacker,
even a free agent at linebacker. And you know, I know,
we were all thinking that the Miami game was going
to be very winnable. But now you've got Miami's won
just out of six. They're running the ball better than
any team in football. You got Mike McDaniels, Say what

(01:34:52):
you want about him. He could scheme up the running
game better than anyone. He was the guy who steams
up the running game. In the twenty nineteen NFC championship
game for the forty niners against the Packers, who were
coached by Jerry Montgomery on the defensive line. So the
Dolphins could run for three hundred dards a week from
now against the Bengals and you'll go again with Joe
Burrow having to put up like thirty seven points to
win the game. Just it's just it's unfathomable. I mean,

(01:35:15):
this defense is that bad.

Speaker 2 (01:35:17):
Yeah, that to me is the most frustrating. And that's
why I said when we finished up our number two,
there's a path that Baltimore has to go to and
two the Pittsburgh Steers have to go one in three.
We're also asking the Bengals to win four games in
a row, and they've won exactly four games in thirteen
tries this year. And we're talking about the same defense
that has been bad.

Speaker 28 (01:35:39):
Right, And again we're talking about a defense. I mean,
Baltimore's offense is plumbenting, but you never know with them,
they can ride and shine in a divisional game. Then
Miami game looked to me like a Shore win. Now
it looks like maybe a sure loss, or at least
a game where they're gonna have to score a thirty
seven forty points to win the game because Miami fourteen
points on the board.

Speaker 2 (01:35:56):
Miami bat Buffalo. They manhandled the.

Speaker 28 (01:35:58):
Jets, which is no great shape but say one of
the football better than name but right now, and that's
a bad matchup for the Bengals. And in the last
two games obviously Arizona and Cleveland, they're at hoolm. But yeah,
there's there's still a path. I'm gonna stick with you
guys and hope that the path comes through because the
vision is just a mess.

Speaker 8 (01:36:14):
So why not us?

Speaker 2 (01:36:16):
There we go? John, thank you for man appreciate you, Yes,
sir uh? From John to Paul. What's up, Paul?

Speaker 14 (01:36:25):
Hey, I have a.

Speaker 8 (01:36:26):
Question for you.

Speaker 33 (01:36:26):
Do you think the Dodgers signed the right Daz brother
this time?

Speaker 2 (01:36:32):
I think I think they saw so much in Alexus.
They're like, we've got to fine blood that's related to
this guy, and we got to give him a lot
of money, and they're like, all right, boom, Edwin Diaz,
here we go.

Speaker 33 (01:36:43):
That was the biggest thing. And my question for you
guys is, do you guys think Al Golden's going to
be on a very short lease next year?

Speaker 3 (01:36:52):
I would think, I mean, I don't know how you're not.
I don't know that it's a shoe in that he
comes back next year, to be honest, especially if they
really fall apart. But for that reason, I would think,
yes he would. He would certainly be on a short.

Speaker 5 (01:37:09):
I'm not.

Speaker 33 (01:37:10):
I'm an average football fan. And when I saw third
and fifteen, I said, there's no possible way Josh Allen
throws that ball, and how you cannot. I don't care
if it's the gen I don't care if it's a
backup safety. Your best tackler should be the spy on
that third and fifteen. Yes, yeah, I mean, I'm just

(01:37:33):
I was beside myself, and as soon as he passed
the defensive line, I thought, oh my gosh, are you
kidding me? Where is everybody? And then he slides down
and I thought, Okay, well, there it is.

Speaker 2 (01:37:43):
Yep.

Speaker 33 (01:37:46):
And I don't really feel so bad for loua ay
an a Romo anymore, you know, I felt like he
was getting a roll deal last year. I felt like
a lot of their troubles wasn't the scheme, but was
more of the players. And everyone seemed to say, think
it was the scheme and run its course and now
I'm thinking now it's more the players.

Speaker 2 (01:38:05):
Yeah, yep, what's out of doubt? Paul, Thank you man,
We appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (01:38:10):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
All right, let's do this, Austin's let's break, let's come back,
Let's have a Bengals conversation. I know we've talked about
the need for perfection from Joe Burrow, and you know,
I think Joe Daniman had kind of hit the nail
on the head. Joe's talked about that. A quarterback that's
turning twenty nine years old. I think there's a path
that that begin begins to wear more and more on

(01:38:34):
Joe Burrow. And there is a Zach Taylor question looming
in all of this as well. We'll dive into both
of those when we returned on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station, your front.

Speaker 1 (01:38:44):
Row seat to the fiercest debates in sports. Moegger today
at three pm on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:39:12):
Welcome back since he three p sixty ESBN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station, thanks to Penn Station. I have to
ask the question, and I know that that that can
change based on how this stretch run for the Bengals

(01:39:33):
goes but there is a question to be had, and
I think the question, as it did the early part
of the middle part of the season, will still revolve
around Zach Taylor. Is there anything that happens over the
last four games that in one way or another decides
the fate of Zach Taylor? Or is it already decided

(01:39:54):
that Zach Taylor is going to be the coach of
the Cincinnati Bengals next year. I mean, there's a conversation
like the Bangal. Since losing in the twenty twenty two
AFC Championship Game are twenty two and twenty five, they
are staring at another year of missing the playoffs, which

(01:40:16):
would mean that in Zach Taylor's tenure, they would have
missed the playoffs in five of seven years. Joe Daniman
earlier in the show, Austin mentioned that here you have
Joe Burrows turning twenty nine years old. He's again you
still got plenty of time with NFL careers and quarterbacks.
I mean, we're talking about Philip Rivers is back with
the Colts at forty four years old. But nonetheless, we've

(01:40:38):
constantly talked about the Super Bowl window and how do
you attack that window? And how far away, let's be honest,
how far away this roster is from being a legit
Super Bowl contender. What's the fallout Austin if this doesn't happen,
if they don't make the playoffs and they're on the
outside looking in again, is their fallout?

Speaker 3 (01:40:59):
As relates to Zach Taylor, I do not anticipate any falloup.
I think the best, the most likely thing to happen
would be Al Golden getting fired, and I don't think
that that would happen either. I think the best thing
for the franchise would be to do an overhaul of
the personnel department, but I don't think that's going to

(01:41:22):
happen either. So I don't expect Zach to get fired.
I said all along. If this thing unravels and they're
getting embarrassed in these games, then maybe, But they haven't been.
They've been competitive in most of them, and I still
think that. You know, the Brown family views Zach as
a good offensive mind and a good fit with Joe Burrow,

(01:41:45):
and I think because of that, he will remain the
head coach.

Speaker 2 (01:41:48):
Yeah, is that the way it should be? Because I
know that that's the way. Kind of the Bengals do
it is that the way it should be. I know
this isn't a good answer. I have no problem keeping
him this year.

Speaker 3 (01:42:08):
If it felt like this thing was just completely like
there's nothing there, there's no hope, then yes they should
move on from him and they should do things differently.

Speaker 2 (01:42:19):
But for much of the season, hasn't it felt that way.
I mean, we're talking about a four and nine football team.

Speaker 3 (01:42:24):
But we've also taken most of the blame away from
Zach Taylor and put it on Duke Tobin this year.
There's never been a season, at least as long as
I've been doing this, and certainly as long as I've
had a brain good enough to understand what's going on
in this organization, has there been more of a microscope
and the crossairs put on Duke Tobin. I think most

(01:42:46):
people would tell you that the issues with the Bengals
start at the top in the way that they assess
an acquire talent and the way that they do business,
and then it has a tri down effect on everyone else,
including Zach Taylor. I also, we've talked about it a lot.
I don't know if there is a guy out there

(01:43:09):
that you feel like you know, is there a Mike
Rabel out there this year. So if it's not, is
there you know, is there a Kyle Schwarber out there
for you to change the way you do business? I
don't know that there is.

Speaker 2 (01:43:22):
So if it's If it's not that, what about the
same question as it relates to the personnel department.

Speaker 3 (01:43:32):
Yeah, I've advocated for it. I did it on Monday.
I think they should be fired. I think they should
clean house with the whole personnel department. So is there
is there?

Speaker 2 (01:43:41):
This is what I've been asked the most this week,
and it's why I kind of alluded to it with
Joe Daniman. If they're eliminated from playoff contention on Sunday?
Is there a Is there a point to winning the
final three games? I get it. I get your competitive
I get your never just to roll over. I get

(01:44:01):
you always want to win. But I also understand the
side of the fan base or people that I've talked
to that have said, so they win the final three,
everyone's job stay secure. You talk about Burrow's injury and
how close you were, no major changes, and in the
stretch run you also cost yourself pivotal draft positioning. Is

(01:44:25):
that an argument that is fair for people to be
having down the stretch.

Speaker 3 (01:44:29):
Sure, I think you can look at it and say, Okay, well,
historically when this personnel department, if it's going to remain
intact historically, when they make their best picks, it's when
it's inside the top ten.

Speaker 2 (01:44:42):
Correct.

Speaker 3 (01:44:43):
I do think there's a very real possibility that if
they are to be eliminated, we would not see Joe
Burrow and Jamar Chase and some of those guys just
because you go into full evaluation mode. You try to
protect your stars all that. Like I would have I
wouldn't love it as somebody who wants to watch them

(01:45:04):
play football, but I would understand it if that was
the case. And we've seen them kind of make those
decisions in the past. You think of Ryan Finley getting
the nod over Andy Dalton for a while, we've seen,
you know, when they're The thing is, though we haven't
seen this since that like twenty nineteen twenty twenty season. Absolutely,
because they've never been eliminated until the final day of

(01:45:24):
the season.

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
So because I like, I get people that are now
coming out and saying, well, all we're gonna do, they're
gonna be on the outside looking in and they're just
gonna cost themselves draft positioning and they've had a hard
enough time evaluating talent as this. Like, I get that argument.
I get that conversation. And if it comes down to,

(01:45:47):
you know, we're we're we're at the draft and we're
we're broadcasting, and it comes down to them being three
spots away from a potential guy like Caleb Downs, then yeah,
I would I would see it even more.

Speaker 3 (01:45:57):
Yeah, And you know, we'll get into a lot of
the different guys that they could potentially take in the draft.
In the debate we'll rage on at some point this
offseason will be should you take a safety in the
top ten? That's a whole nother you know, that's entire
show's worth of stuff later on. But if you look
right now, and let's talk about it, because it's part

(01:46:19):
of the conversation. The draft order as it stands at
the moment, you have the New York Giants at number one.
They're not going to take a quarterback. Las Vegas is
at number two, they probably will, Tennessee is at number three,
they won't. Cleveland, I guess they probably would. At number four,
New Orleans maybe maybe not. Washington won't, the Jets will,

(01:46:43):
Arizona will, and then Atlanta traded their pick to the Rams.
I would imagine the Rams would take a quarterback if
they're in the top ten. So if you have one, two, three, four, five, six,
seven of the teams ahead of you that are likely
to go for a quarterback, that puts you in a

(01:47:05):
really good position as it stands right now, to get
an impact player on.

Speaker 2 (01:47:09):
Your at number ten. Yeah. Now see this is where
it gets crazy, because the Bengals sit at four and nine.
That's the same pick as the Falcons. The Falcons right
now would pick nine, the Bengals would pick ten. But
the difference of the picks around you outside of the Giants, Raiders,
and Titans all have ten wins. You've got the Browns,
the Saints, the Commanders, the Jets, and the Cardinals all

(01:47:31):
with three. So you're one away right now in the
lost column for the win column from being a higher pick.
But if you look behind the Bengals, Vikings are at eleven, Dolphins, Ravens,
Chiefs all at six wins, Carolina is at seven. Like
the difference of a finishing record of what eight and

(01:47:51):
nine or seven and ten for the Bengals could very
well cost them five or six or even more spots
in the draft. And yes, so I do understand and
I do get that there is a conversation to be had.
Now is the time for that conversation now? No, Because
as long as this team is mathematically alive, they're going
to play. That's what it is. And if they beat

(01:48:13):
the Ravens and the Steelers lose on Monday Night, that
conversation only heats up. Sure, but if this team loses
on Sunday, there has to be a legit conversation about
how you handle the remaining three games of the schedule
and what are you valuing.

Speaker 3 (01:48:30):
If you think about it. I mean, Baltimore and Miami
are right behind them, and you could essentially flip spots
with them if you were to beat them. Arizona and
Cleveland are right ahead of them. Arizona's schedule the rest
of the way is Houston, Atlanta, the Bengals, and the Rams.
You would expect at least two losses right there for Arizona.

(01:48:52):
I hate that this is what we're talking about right now, correct,
but it is. Yeah, It's part of the conversation reality
because where they're at, I don't think though, the the
Bengals really entertain it until they are eliminated. Yeah, and
then you kind of sit down and say, Okay, how
do we want to go about this? And the way
I see it, like, I really don't need to see

(01:49:15):
Joe Burrow in Week eighteen in a meaningless game if
he wants to play this week, especially Week ten and
Miles Garrett Miami and against Arizona, if he wants to
play those games, Okay, but Week eighteen and Miles Garrett
more than likely either having already set the sack record
and trying to add on to it or trying to
get the sack record.

Speaker 2 (01:49:33):
I have no interest. Yeah, conversations that hopefully are delayed
us having to have because the Bengals take care of
the Baltimore Ravens on Sunday and then we're all Dolphins
fans on Monday Night football. We'll take a break. When
we come back, phone lines will be open five, one, three, seven,
four nine, fifteen thirty. We got to talk a little
college hoops as well if we have an opportunity, and

(01:49:54):
we'll check in with Moager from Oakley Greens for quick
kits on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:50:00):
Men, Tony Pikes since E three sixty is back now
on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:50:12):
Welcome back since E three to sixty ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station at thanks Compen Station.

Speaker 3 (01:50:19):
You never call it Tony Pikes since E three sixty.

Speaker 2 (01:50:21):
I don't know. I don't literally talk about myself in
third person. I've done it many times in the past. No,
I never said, well, Tony thinks this, Tony does that. Okay,
Tony says this. Here's what I say out of these teams,
and we're going to get into QB tiers tomorrow. We're
going to dive deep into the quarterback tiers of the
National Football League. I wrote these teams down as Super

(01:50:45):
Bowl contenders. Who would you add or take off this list? Rams, Packers, Seahawks,
forty nine Ers, Lions, Texans, Bills, Broncos. Those are the
only teams I have right now as contenders. I would
take off the forty nine, the Lions, and the just
because of the competition. Yeah, I don't think they're that good.
You take off the Lions.

Speaker 3 (01:51:07):
Forty nine Ers, Lions. Yeah, the Broncos and Texans are
the same team to me. I mean outside of the
but I'm still not crazy. I don't know that there
is one. Yeah, I think this year that the narrative
is about to shift, by the way, because Burrow, Jackson

(01:51:28):
and Mahomes are not going to be in the playoffs,
So the narrative is going to shift to Okay, Josh Allen,
never have you had a better chance than this right here.
You don't have to go through those three guys at
any point to get your team to the super Bowl.
And so I think I have a hard time betting
against Josh Allen right now.

Speaker 2 (01:51:46):
When it comes to the AFC.

Speaker 3 (01:51:48):
Yeah, Now, I don't think they're the best team, but
they got the best player.

Speaker 2 (01:51:52):
I think the forty nine ers are off the list.
I'm not ready to move the Lions just yet, injuries
and their ds off Shawks Darnold is the big question
for me. Rams, Packers, Seahawks, Lions, Texans, Bill's Broncos. Out
of out of this list, Panthers, Cowboys, Eagles, Bears, Chiefs, Dolphins, Ravens, Colts, Chargers, Jaguars, Steelers, Patriots, Bucks, Bengals.

(01:52:18):
I can't any of those teams should be a contender.

Speaker 3 (01:52:26):
That was too many for the Bengals are a contender.

Speaker 2 (01:52:30):
No, I'm asking you, like, these are the teams I
just have as off my off my contender list, but
but they're still mathematically These are the teams that are
still mathematically and or in the playoffs, but I'm just
not counting them as a contender. Bengals, Tampa Bay, New England.

(01:52:50):
You have New England as a contender or no, okay,
Steelers Jaguars. You've seen enough from the Jags contender in
a weekend AFC.

Speaker 3 (01:53:02):
No, what do you think? Are you just naming teams
and asking.

Speaker 2 (01:53:05):
Me my list? My list was the original Rams, Packers, Seahawks, Niners, Lions, Texans,
Bill's Broncos. Those are the teams I view as actual
contenders as we sit here on December ninth. Off my
contender list. Now there's irrelevant teams that don't matter at
this point. But the teams that are still alive Panthers, Cowboys, Eagles, Bears, Chiefs, Dolphins.

Speaker 3 (01:53:28):
I think there's three in the NFC that can win
the Super Bowl. The Rams, the Packers, saw the Seahawks
and the big thing for the Seahawks, and you mentioned
Sam Darnold. He's not going to have to play Brian
Flores in the playoffs like he did last year. Sure, well,
yead Brian floor is on his team last year, but
he's not gonna have to face, you know, that type
of defense in the playoffs where he was really getting

(01:53:49):
torn up.

Speaker 2 (01:53:52):
So I think those three are they any other in
the AFC that you would put into the contender list?

Speaker 3 (01:53:57):
I don't really feel good about any of them at all. Yeah,
Like I think they're technically contenders because somebody has to
come out of the AFC. Yeah, I would still lean
towards Buffalo, even though I know Denver has a better defense,
Houston has a better defense. New England is maybe the
most complete team of the group.

Speaker 2 (01:54:18):
I think it's interesting with the Seahawks as well. You're
gonna learn a lot down the stretch. Colts Rams on
the road against the Panthers, on the road against the
forty nine ers.

Speaker 3 (01:54:27):
I think they'll win every one of those games.

Speaker 2 (01:54:29):
I just don't I don't think they beat the Rams.

Speaker 3 (01:54:32):
They almost beat them the first time in Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 (01:54:34):
They did, and that was a game Darnold through four picks.

Speaker 3 (01:54:38):
It's a home Thursday night game in Seattle. They'll win
that game. Okay, Seattle win that game, all right. They're
playing a ninety six year old quarterback this week.

Speaker 2 (01:54:48):
What if he wins? Though? What if Phil wins?

Speaker 3 (01:54:52):
It would be a great story. I got to see
if it would be fitting considering I just said, yep,
they'll win out.

Speaker 2 (01:54:58):
We got a break. We gotta get the Mowagger. I've
got to return a phone call to Indy. I guess
I don't have to make I guess I don't have
to make a drive up there. We never we don't
make that joke on ESPN fifteenth talk about himself in
third person. Yeah, well I got you wrecked his career
got you earlier? Are you already? Cut my mic?

Speaker 4 (01:55:13):
Off?

Speaker 2 (01:55:15):
ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:55:18):
Now it's time for a quick hits on Tony Tykes.
Since the three sixteen.

Speaker 2 (01:55:25):
Was looking for mo it is, we're heading out to
Oakley Greens to do so. Mollagger is there today and
yet still nice enough to join us? Right now? What's up?

Speaker 4 (01:55:33):
Mo fellas? How are we?

Speaker 2 (01:55:36):
I'm great? How are you?

Speaker 4 (01:55:38):
I'm all right?

Speaker 2 (01:55:39):
What do you get? What do you get? Coming up
on the.

Speaker 36 (01:55:44):
I was gonna try to squeeze a few more segments
out of Kyle Schwarber this week.

Speaker 4 (01:55:49):
Yeah, and I'll do so today.

Speaker 36 (01:55:51):
But I was sort of hoping that I could just
I could, I could, I could suckle on that teat just.

Speaker 35 (01:55:56):
A little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:55:56):
Wow, he's no Trey Hendricksonzy No.

Speaker 36 (01:56:01):
I was thinking about this today that the standings Trey
Hendrickson has so far run away with the title of
most radio segments about Shamar Stewart number two.

Speaker 4 (01:56:12):
Kyle Schwarber doesn't make the.

Speaker 36 (01:56:15):
Top fifteen, but I got a good ten to twelve
segments out of the reds pursuit of Kyle Schwartz.

Speaker 3 (01:56:23):
Who's the all time leader in that category, like Pete Rose,
Carson Palmer.

Speaker 4 (01:56:27):
Like, that's a good question.

Speaker 36 (01:56:29):
It's probably either Andy Dalton or Joey Vado. It's probably
Joey because if you think of all the different you know, well,
he didn't drive in enough, Arby Hines too much, walks
too much, he not invade the walk, and then all
the subsequent topics.

Speaker 4 (01:56:50):
But probably Vado. I would say.

Speaker 36 (01:56:51):
Vado Dalton, and then number three would be just generic
UC football coaching searches. I mean that's true. I know
it's true. Like all the UC there is nothing, and
I mean this in the eighteen years I guess I've
been doing our show. There is nothing that gets people

(01:57:14):
talking more on our show.

Speaker 2 (01:57:17):
Than a UC football st good coaching search.

Speaker 4 (01:57:20):
Once they hired the coach. It's like, you want to
talk about the games.

Speaker 36 (01:57:23):
But when they have a coaching need, people get all
fired up for that.

Speaker 2 (01:57:30):
You know, we talked yesterday that on Sunday, in that
fourth quarter, you allowed yourself to believe again, you opened
the door back up and it came crashing down. I
think I had that same thing happen today. I started
to allow myself to believe that Kyle Schwarber could actually happen.
Do you think this was ever a real possibility? Do
you see Schwarber is just kind of playing this to

(01:57:50):
get more from the Philadelphia Phillies that the passing piece
comes out that the Reds were not able to match
financially what Kyle Schwarber wanted. Do you think this was
ever a consideration.

Speaker 4 (01:58:01):
A consideration for Kyle or consideration Reds.

Speaker 35 (01:58:05):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:58:05):
I'm sure he was open to it.

Speaker 36 (01:58:07):
Yeah, I'm gonna guess he never seriously considered the Reds offer.
There's a difference between you know, I'll consider the Reds
as a possibility, and I'm interested in what they would
have to say versus I'm considering their offer. My guess
is he considered Cincinnati until he got the offer.

Speaker 4 (01:58:22):
And I think that's the question we all have here.

Speaker 36 (01:58:24):
How serious was their pursuit. I was told very late
last night. I got a text from somebody who I
really really trust, late last night, like after the Monday
night football game, and it's like, you can stop talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:58:42):
Kyle Schwerber now man.

Speaker 36 (01:58:44):
And I was like, okay, And I've been told that
by a lot of folks, like why are you wasting
your time?

Speaker 4 (01:58:50):
Why are you wasting your breath? What did I do
sports talk radio for a living man? Like come on?

Speaker 36 (01:58:55):
But I was told last night by somebody who would know, like,
you can stop talking about it. He's going back to
the Phillies. Yes, and so it was fun. But did
any of us really believe. You know, in sports we
do this all the time. We create certain narratives. Well,
he's from Cincinnati, so he's gonna want to be here. Yeah, right,

(01:59:16):
Oh it Look, Ficker will never leave because it's got
a fat a thousand kids and they all go to
the schools here here, Okay, at the end of the day,
it's about money, and so it was fun. It was
fun to entertaine. But there was a great amount of
skepticism that the Reds were seriously going to pursue him.
And I mean, like, say, all right, we'll match what
the Phillies or the Mets or the Red Sox are

(01:59:37):
willing to offer. I'm led to believe that their offer
was not even in the same ball.

Speaker 2 (01:59:43):
So do you think they go and they take that
money they did offer and go try to get another
high level free agent?

Speaker 36 (01:59:48):
Well, you know, I have a poll question. I thought
maybe you guys could answer it for me. Okay, at
moeger So, because I think there's four different possibilities. The
first possibility is a a player who used to be
good before he got hurt. The next possibility would be
the kind of player whose value can only be appreciated
if you look at the underlying metrics. If I hear again, well,

(02:00:11):
if you look at the underlying metrics. If I have
to look at the underlying metrics, you stick. Or there's
former guardian who brings value because Tito knows them.

Speaker 4 (02:00:22):
Or there's guy who is a big.

Speaker 36 (02:00:24):
Player on a really good team and who's winning pedigree
provides more value than any real statistical contribution. Which of
those four players would be the best plan? B?

Speaker 3 (02:00:35):
If you will, I'm gonna well, I don't know that
it's the best. But what they will do is a
guy who used to be good before he got hurt.
I think it'll actually be like a mix between A
and B. But okay, mostly underlying metrics.

Speaker 2 (02:00:52):
Yeah, but if you could find someone who used to
be good that has a relationship with Tito, watch out
if you look at underlying metrics before he got hurt,
he was really good.

Speaker 36 (02:01:00):
Like guy who was with the Guardians when they were
good and Tito was manager, but used to be good
before he got hurt, and also has great underlying metrics
that sort of satisfies all for But it's a legitimate question,
like now what right, so we were talking about, Okay,
could they add a guy who you could pretty much
jot down to hit forty home runs for you?

Speaker 4 (02:01:22):
Okay, well he's off, he's off. Now what now? What
is going to satisfy their need for a power bat?

Speaker 36 (02:01:28):
Is there a free agent possibility or is it they
dip into their reservoir of starting Pitchers.

Speaker 4 (02:01:33):
To go trade one of those guys and get someone
in return.

Speaker 3 (02:01:36):
Scott Boris hinted today that maybe the Reds were interested
in Cody Bellinger. Does that do anything for you?

Speaker 4 (02:01:44):
Yeah, A little bit sure.

Speaker 2 (02:01:46):
Outside of another Schreber segment, what do you got on
the show today?

Speaker 36 (02:01:49):
Jeff Carr is gonna come on the show to talk
about college, So we're just we're really gonna milk this.

Speaker 4 (02:01:57):
I might.

Speaker 36 (02:01:58):
What I was looking for, or two was being inundated with.
You know, my my brother went to middle school with
college for where you should have him on because I
was already starting to get that, and I was also
starting to get like, you know, my sister used to
wait tables at the I Hop in Middletown.

Speaker 4 (02:02:16):
She says it's a done deal. She says he's coming.
I was.

Speaker 36 (02:02:19):
I was starting to get some of that too. Paul
Danner Junior is going to be on the show. We'll
talk about the Bengals and a lot of different things
in play there. Our guy Sean Sayed's stats and scheme
newsletter is gonna break down the Bengals schemes because I'm
gonna ask him about spying the quarterback.

Speaker 4 (02:02:36):
Do you other teams do this to other team's spot.

Speaker 3 (02:02:38):
That's tough. That's tough to teach. You're gonna ask him
his favorite Jermaine Burton moment, Well.

Speaker 36 (02:02:44):
He had four catches. That was one of my pole
questions yesterday, which all four catches?

Speaker 4 (02:02:47):
Was your favorite?

Speaker 36 (02:02:48):
My favorite Jermaine Burton moment was when he had the
good preseason game against the Buccaneers and he was like otherworldly,
and yet after the game, all anybody talked about was
like they're pretty much said on TV, he falls asleep
in the meetings. I don't know what he's doing, doesn't
show up on times like damn guy.

Speaker 4 (02:03:02):
I like game. They're like, hey, yeah, I just see
when he was in. He was in the late and
the fourth quarter.

Speaker 2 (02:03:06):
I liked when he wore that beach tal for like
three days at Trant.

Speaker 3 (02:03:10):
Forgot about that.

Speaker 2 (02:03:12):
Austin was wondering as well. He wanted to bring this
up and ask you. You added a new item to
your muted words list on social media, league average defense.
You're done with this now? Why?

Speaker 36 (02:03:24):
Because I'm tired of hearing about how they just need
a league average defense.

Speaker 2 (02:03:28):
But it's true.

Speaker 36 (02:03:30):
It's not true. They need a defense that can help
you win games. They need a defense that can win
games in the fourth quarter. They need a championship level defense. Now, statistically,
if that's their fifteenth that's fine. What are they in
the fourth quarter? League average defense doesn't do anything for me.
If they stink on third and fifteen or fourth and
fifteen in the fourth quarter when Johnson has the football

(02:03:52):
and you know what he's gonna do. That defense metrically
maybe middle of the pack. Can I get a defense
that can get off the field against the Detroit Lions
when they've the deficit to eleven points and there's still
time at home? Can I get a defense that can
get off the field against the New York Jets when
they're the offense has done enough to win it. Can
I get a defense that can stop the Chicago Bears
in the fourth quarter when the game is there to

(02:04:12):
be won.

Speaker 4 (02:04:13):
I don't. I have no remote.

Speaker 36 (02:04:14):
Idea where the Bengals ranked defensively, none. I could not
care less. When the games have been hanging in the balance,
it has failed. If a league average defense is more
likely to get those stops, that's one thing. I want
a championship caliber defense. I want a defense that can
win games for you. In twenty twenty one, the Bengals
had a defense that could win games for it. I
don't know what they were statistically, don't care. They could

(02:04:36):
win games. That unit could win games. So miss me
with this lead. When you when you just gotta be
league average means all you're aspiring to is league average.
When you're ceiling is league average. Your floor is a
comparison to the nineteen sixty six New York Giants. It's
so stop with the just need league average. I'm tired
of it. We do it with all the team, but
it just gotta be Okay, I just go get Mike

(02:04:58):
swarbur instead of Kyle Schwarber in the league average. Stop attaining,
Stop striving for average. How about strive for good. What
they need next year is a good defense?

Speaker 4 (02:05:08):
Good? Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:05:09):
Do you remember the times that.

Speaker 36 (02:05:10):
That they have legitimately competed for anything? The defense when
it is counted has been good. Not eh, that's the
league average. Is a sound effect?

Speaker 4 (02:05:19):
What do you want next year? How's the how's Al
Gold's defense going to be next year?

Speaker 7 (02:05:24):
No?

Speaker 4 (02:05:24):
I want like a word that describes the defense, not
a sound effect.

Speaker 2 (02:05:27):
What was your first muted word Nevada Game.

Speaker 36 (02:05:31):
Kanyeah Okay Kanye was later Nevada Game was the first
muted term.

Speaker 4 (02:05:36):
All Right, Nevada Game, have.

Speaker 2 (02:05:38):
A great show. We appreciate you. Moger's next from Oakley
Greens on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station

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