November 20, 2025 • 45 mins
Tony and Austin talk Joe Burrow and Elly De La Cruz in hour one on ESPN 1530!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Tony Pike Sincey three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati,
sponsored in part by Skyline Chili. Stop by Skyline Chili
for a three way or cheese cony today. Feeling good,
It's Skyline Time. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
All right, Den, welcome in, Happy Thursday. Let's do it.
We got three hours of Cinty three sixty on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. You just heard it right there,
thanks to Skyline Chili. Anytime you're feeling good and hungry
at Skyline Time, maybe you've already kind of started to
dive into the holiday shopping and things just aren't clicking
like you hoped. Well, I got an easy solution for
(00:44):
you at Skyline Chili Skyline Gift Cards. And the best
part about getting the Skyline Gift card is when you
go in to buy the gift card, you just eat
and have lunch or dinner, whatever you want to do,
all thanks to our friends at Skyline Chili. Here's what
we got today, and it's quite a lot. There are
times hand up three hours feels like a lot of
time to cover for a sports radio show, And then
(01:06):
there are days like today where it feels like three
hours isn't nearly enough for what we want to try
to accomplish on today's program. So here's what we got.
Let's work back to front our number three. Keegan Nickoson
Bearcat Journal dot Com. He'll join us. Why big weekend
for the Cincinnati Bearcats. They play Louisville in basketball tomorrow
(01:27):
night at the Heritage Bank Arena, and then on Saturday,
big noon kickoff is in town ahead of a eight
pm start nip at night you see versus the eleventh
rank team in the country, the BYU Cougas, coming into town.
Keegan Nickoson will get us all set up for that.
Speaking of Friday nights, speaking of UC and Louisville, Wes
(01:49):
miller I, head basketball coach of the Cincinnati Bearcats, will
join us in our number three as well our number two.
You know what it is with talkbacks, those happen in
their normal place in time. And John Shearon height is
e Sports covering the Cincinnati Bengals, and boy do we
have a lot of talk about with the Bengals. He'll
join us at one o'clock. In between all of that,
(02:12):
we've got audio that you're gonna want to hear audio
of Zach Taylor. Earlier this morning with Tom Brenneman down
the hall on WLW. Nick Krawl sent shockwaves to many
with an Elie de la Cruz comment. You'll hear that.
You'll hear Nick Krawl's comment on the off season. And
Kyle Schwarber was in town last night. He was being
(02:32):
honored in Middletown, and our own Bill Seg Dennison was there,
and we've got some Seg audio with Kyle Schwarberg. All
of this is supposed to fit in just three hours.
We'll see how we can do. We won't spend as
(02:53):
much time in the first segment on everything else going
on in the world sports. Let's just get that out
of the way right now. College basketball last night saw
a good one, and I mean a good one. In
the early part of the season. Arizona went on the
road to Yukon. That's number three verse number four, The
number four Arizona Wildcats beat Yukon on the road seventy
(03:14):
one sixty seven. And then another good one in Chicago
the United Center. Illinois, number eight in the country, hosted
number eleven Alabama. Alabama outlast Illinois ninety to eighty six.
And if you're charting a path forward for the Cincinnati
Bearcats and you're like me and you're thinking, hmm, how
(03:35):
can I talk myself into UC keeping it close tomorrow
against Louisville, maybe finding a way to win at the end. Well,
here's this. Kentucky got boat raced by Michigan State earlier
in the week. So maybe the Louisville win over Kentucky
isn't as impressive as we thought. And a lot of
people wanted to pick apart the Dayton win. Well, Dayton
went on the road last night and beat Marquette in overtime,
(03:56):
and Mount Saint mary who gave UC a ton of
fits in the first on Sunday, they went on the
road last night and took Maryland to overtime. So if
you're looking for positives, there is a positive. I also
saw this, Austin. Did you see what came from the
Twitter machine of coach Richard Patino from Xavier No yesterday?
(04:18):
He tweeted out better not sent out grades. He said
report card from last night, and then he tagged that
barstool big cat and he said coaching a plus. That
was it.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
That was his great I don't think that's funny.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So I think that's I think he's gonna get a
little pushback. We're just saying, uh, Thursday Night football tonight.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
See I see that big cat said thank you?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yep, Thursday night football? Is it okay? Is it a
sneaky good one? With the Bills going on the road
at the Houston Texans.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Speaking of the Houston Texans, news coming down right at
the start of the show that former Bengals running back
and current Houston Texan Mixon is not expected to play
at all this season due to that lingering foot injury.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
He's been on the pup.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
So it's gonna be Nick Chubb and Woody Mark's moving forward.
That that's stuff that that stinks for Joe Mixon, Yeah,
because I thought he had a pretty good season last year,
worked well in Houston, but got hurt before the season.
Thought he would come back. I guess it's just lingered.
But yeah, I think those teams are probably a little
closer than you would think. If you listen to the
show at all, you know that I generally side with
(05:31):
the home team on Thursday Night Football. But Buffalo, I
think is desperate. Yeah, and I would take Josh Allen
over Davis Mills. With all due respect to Davis Mills
in company. Some call him Davis General Miles. But yeah,
I'm gonna take Buffalo to win that game. I thought
it was King's like that a lot.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I'll mean two quick NFL things before we dive into
everything Cincinnati sports here and now Number one, there is
uh critics. I'm coming to two different players in the
National Football League. One is injured, one is not one.
You see all these people, big man, that camp Scataboo
is doing everything right now. He was at a UFC
fight the other night, and then he was at Monday
night rawl for WWE and he was getting into altercations.
(06:14):
Do you care how people spend their time when they're
rehabbing from an injury.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Uh. If camp Scataboo had just shoved the guy, that's
one thing. But when he's there kind of going back
and forth and getting shoved, I don't. I'm not a
big fan of that. I think it's different. If he
was like on like the IR and he was coming
back in four weeks, that's fair. His season's over, that's fair,
you know. So how someone wants to operate through that
(06:39):
I'm okay with but he is getting a lot of
heat for that. He is a very strange guy, and I.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Also think there's something to cashing in while you're why
your stock is hot.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Sure, especially in New York, people know about that. I
wonder how long the shelf life is for him. That's
that's my biggest I think. So he acts right now
the way Antonio Brown did towards the end of his career, Sure,
and I just wonder how long that lasts. The other
player getting a lot of criticism is Jalen Hurts of
(07:10):
the Eagles. He has taken a lot of criticism. There
are reports of frustration inside the organization. He, like he
does with everything else, has handled it in extreme profession,
not surprised nature of the position. I put my energy
and focus on going out there and doing my best
and trying to learn, build and take things that can
try to improve on. According to a report by The
(07:33):
Athletic people on the team have talked about his hesitancy
to throw the ball into tight windows against zone coverage
and Jalen Hurts playing quote his game instead of taking
what is discussed during the week and transitioning it to
the game. So Here's what I say, Austin, where do
you stand with Jalen Hurts? Because Philly is eight and two.
(07:53):
Their offense has been disappointing, but they're the best red
zone offense in the NFL and have a league low
f four giveaways on the season. Do you really want
Jalen Hurts fitting the ball into small windows when you
have a good defense, or if you don't turn the
ball over and you're efficient in the red zone?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Is not enough?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
What is the difference between a quarterback who's a game
manager and a quarterback who's highly efficient. Because I feel
like Jalen Hurts is somewhere in between, and I think
he is a different type of leader, a different type
of person and personality. But more than anything, I think
(08:34):
he needs people around him to be at a high level.
And Philly has just kind of been up and down.
They've had some injuries on their offensive line. Saquan hasn't
been one hundred percent, the run game hasn't exactly been
the same, and there's been I've also seen a lot
of criticism of their offensive coordinator, Kevin Petula. If I
said his name correctly, I'm not sure, but I'm a
(08:57):
believer in Jalen hurts. Is he going to go and
win you games? Is he going to put the team
on his shoulders? Probably not, but he's not gonna lose
games for you. And I think that's important.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I also think it should be noted every single time
the postseason has come around, he's played elevates and in
both Super Bowls he was awesome. They should have won
that first Super Bowl against the Chiefs, and he put
on one of the best performances you'll ever see in
the Super Bowl by a losing quarterback, and multiple times
(09:33):
in the postseason he showed up. That has to count.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I just think there's some let's say about a guy
that's not turning the ball over and a guy whose
team is still eight and two.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Philly is a difficult place to play.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Without a doubt, all right, So let's get into the
meat of everything that has happened over such like the
last twenty four hours or so. Let's start with the
Joe Burrow stuff, because this to me, even though there
is a lot to get into with what Nick Kral
(10:03):
had to say about Elie Dai ly Cruz and I
know we'll give our thoughts and opinions on that the
Joe Burrow stuff to me is fascinating and I want
to do here in segment one, I want to I
want to get the audio ready with Zach Taylor and
Tom Brenhaman this morning and we'll set it up here
in a way if you're following along. We heard from
Zach Taylor yesterday and Zach said that Joe would would
(10:28):
do some eleven on eleven and yesterday's practice, and then
yesterday's practice happened and Joe Burrow not only practiced, but
he was listed on the injury report as a full participant. Now,
this is my first indication, Austin, and what I believe
is Joe Burrow getting ready to play if the Bengals
(10:48):
wanted to. The opening part of practice is open to
the media and then it's closed. Correct, Correct, So Joe
Burrow could have went through his normal early routine and
then practice happens and the media is no, and the
Bengals could have listed Joe Burrow as limited. They listed
him as a full participant. That to me says that
(11:09):
Joe Burrow is gonna play. If not, just say he's
limited because you're still working through some stuff. And I
don't think anyone would have bought it an eye if
the injury report came out yesterday and it was Joe
Burrow limited and we heard that he took some eleven
on eleven reps, would you have been surprised by that?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
No, Instead, he's a full participant. The important part here
is Jake Browning. Now, Zach Taylor told us Joe Flacco
is not going to throw, which means he's not gonna
take the eleven on eleven reps. And in order for
an injured player who's in that twenty one day window
(11:46):
to be listed as a full participant in practice, they
have to take one hundred percent of the first team reps,
which means Jake Browning did not take any first team
reps yesterday, correct, Which tells me it's either Joe Flacco
(12:06):
or Joe Burrow. Yes, now, it could very well be
today where Flacco continues on the plan sure like he
has been, and he's listed as limited and Burrow's listed
as limited. If they split the first team reps of practice,
I feel like that's probably where we're going. And then
we get to Friday and Joe will both Joe's will
(12:29):
be listed as questionable. That's how I think we're that's
the direction I think we're going. But the fact that
Browning didn't take any tells me it's gonna be one
of the Joe's. It is Uh, it's incredible. Can we
do can we uh, let's do this. Let's break a
little early. Then let's come back with the audio of
Zach Taylor with Tom Brenneman, and then we'll react to
(12:49):
that as well. Knowing the practice report from yesterday, it's
since he three to sixty on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati
Sports Station, thanks to our friends at Scott.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
This is Football in the NATTI, brought to you by
Postman Law on ESPN fifteen point thirty, the official home
of the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
All right, welcome back. It is since he three to sixty.
This is part of now Football in the NATI thanks
to Skyline Chilly here now number one. Okay, as if
what we described yesterday and the way Zach described what
practice was going to be like, and then the injury
report that came out, there was already people going and
running with it yesterday. Dan rolofsky on NFL Live yesterday said, oh,
he was a full participant. He's playing on Sunday, he's
(13:33):
going to be under center. Well, then you fast forward
to earlier this morning, Tom Brendan down the Hall in
Wow did his weekly hit with Zach Taylor. Take a
listen to Zach Taylor's comments with Tom Brendan earlier this morning.
Starting with what Zach Taylor saw from Joe Burrow yesterday's practice.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
I was pleased. I thought he looked good first day,
taking eleven on eleven reps and so that was a
great starting point for him and hadn't done that for
two months, so I was pleased for myself.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
He is listed as a full participant. Is Joe Burrow
going to play on Sunday?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Well, we don't know that yet.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
You know, it's kind of a balance of Joe Flacco
has n't been practicing on Wednesdays, so it was a
great opportunity to get Joe Burrow out there to take
as many reps as possible. So yeah, he took all
the revs. But but that was a balance with Joe
has not been practicing on Wednesdays last few weeks, and
so we'll just keep working through these next couple of days.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
When do you plan on making a decision about that?
Because Look, it's what everybody's talking about. I mean, you
were born maybe at night, but not last night. You
know that. That's what everybody is talking about. Is Joe
Burrow coming back? So you know, I mean, is there,
let's put it this way, is there a chance that
he plays Sunday?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Well, I'm not there yet.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
You know, it's one day of practice. Isn't going to
lead to that decision yet? So what's the time we
have at our disposal and come with the best decision
we can.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Are you amazed by how quickly he's recovered from this.
I have Julieu Isfording, who was an Olympian marathon runner.
She had the same thing, did you? Joe Burrow said
it was the most grueling rehab that she's ever been through,
and she's been through back surgeries and knee surgeries and
all that kind of thing. Are you even amazed that
he's even on the practice field at this point in time?
Speaker 5 (15:12):
Am I amazed?
Speaker 6 (15:13):
Now?
Speaker 5 (15:13):
Because I've watched this guy for the last six years
and I've seen him. He's obviously wired different than everybody else.
That's why he's who he That's why he's a national champion,
Heisman Trophy winning first pick in the draft, all that
kind of stuff, NFL comeback player, the all the stuff
that he's earned.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
And so.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
I've just now seen enough to where I just know
that's who he is. And this isn't the first rehab
he's had to go through, so he knew what that
process was. Obviously different injuries. Proud of him, not surprised.
Maybe surprises the rest of the world, but it's really
impressive the work that he's done to get back on
the field as quickly as he did.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
You have to make a decision, and you'll consult with others.
But will this be a situation where Joe might come
into you, Joe Burrow, he might come to you and say, hey,
you know, coach, I feel like I'm ready to go.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, And then that's that's that's my job,
you know, to balance balance all the information and protect
the player and and make the.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
Best decision possible. But yeah, absolutely, he's he's certainly got
his opinions when he's put in the work and feels
how he does, and and we'll balance all that information.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
All right.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Come on, come on, coach, come on, I'm going to
circle back to it one more time.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I have to do it.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Come on, there are more people that listening to this
morning show than than anywhere else and they are huge
me too, Bengal fan. Come on, coach, you can tell
us right now. Burrow's playing it. He's playing it.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
Yeah, No, I wish I could. I wish I had
that decision today, you know, honestly, it's I'm going to
take in all the information I can and make sure
it's the best one for for Joe and our team
and we'll go from there.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
All right. I have so many thoughts on this.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
So first of all, great job by Dyeah, just right
right to the point.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Awesome, awesome stuff by Tom So I'll I'll give my
thoughts here, and then Austin, I want to take your
thoughts as well. That to me, right off the job,
I've listened to that like three times. That doesn't sound
like a coach who's teams three and seven, who's been
dealing with pressure and stress and frustration. It doesn't sound
(17:26):
like a coach that's preparing for one of the best
teams in football without his best player in Jamar Chase.
It doesn't sound like a coach beaten down over the
course of the season with rumors about his job and
how bad this defense is. That sounds like a coach
to me early in the morning on a Thursday afternoon.
That's got a little pepinist step. Why you can put
(17:48):
two and two together. But I go back to the
injury report yesterday and I go back to Zach Taylor
while not saying Joe is going to start on Sunday
or Joe's going to play on Sunday, also left the
door open multiple times with Tom Brenneman where he could
have shut it down. Well, you know, this is part
of the rehab process. It was always going to be
(18:08):
Joe on Wednesday and then Flacco on Thursday, but he's
not quite there yet. He left the door open for everything.
And what I think is one of the most important
parts and takeaways of what we just heard between Zach
and Tom is Zach saying, of course Joe is gonna
want to play, but me, as the coach, it's my
(18:29):
job to make sure it's in the best interest of
Joe as well. That to me is all this comes
down to. If this team were let's say, going into
week sixteen or seventeen, and it was a must win
to make the playoffs, and Joe Burrow was eighty percent.
But you want to play him because he gives you
the best chance to win, then I'm playing him at
(18:50):
that point in the season. If not for Sunday, then
I have to rely on the trainers. I went on
with with Scott Sloane earlier this morning. I talked about this,
and we have Bob Manjen on most weeks from the
University of Cincinnati. I was so lucky at the University
of Cincinnati because Bob Manjean and others, regardless of all
(19:14):
other pressures or how quick can we get someone back,
I knew that the training staff at you See had
my best interest in mind, and that made things easier
for me. Of Course, I want to play. I want
to get out there. The training staff is the one
that doesn't care to have to be the bad guy. Sometimes.
If Bob Manjean told me you're good, you can go play,
(19:40):
then I'm going to listen to him and go play.
And that is the same way I view this for
the Bengals and their training staff and coaching staff. If
Joe Burrow is good to go, and Joe Burrow is
medically cleared and they have confidence that he can operate
the way that he needs to operate for this team
to be successful and for him to be safe, and
(20:02):
they're signing off on that, then I have to trust them.
I have to trust the team, the doctors, the medical
staff that they are operating with the best interest of
their franchise quarterback. And if that means Joe can play
on Sunday, then I'm all for Joe playing on Sunday,
because that's the inner workings. Zach Taylor meets with the
(20:26):
training staff multiple times per day every day to get updates.
That's how that works. He has been hand in hand
along this whole process and has probably known that this
was a possibility since the boot came off of Joe Burrow.
Now one could say, well, what if Joe's just saying
is okay, but he's really in a lot of pain.
That's fine. They're taking images, they're doing x rays, you're
(20:48):
having MRIs. You can tell how much it's healed. And
you also have to weigh the risk. What if he
gets stepped on under center? Is he willing to go
under center? Is he able to go under center? Can
you operate the way you want to If he's not
able to go under center, can he with stand a hit.
Can he withstand a three hundred pound human stepping on
(21:09):
his foot in the scenario where that happens. Can he
navigate the pocket in a way that is successful and
safe for him to do so? And at the end
of the day, if that training staff says yes, then
I am all for Joe Burrow going out there and
playing again. If he's eighty percent and you're in week
(21:30):
sixteen and you have to win, then maybe you have
to roll the dice. But at three and seven, I
don't feel like they're rolling the dice. At three and seven.
I feel like they're like, you're healthy, go play, you
don't have the limitations. And if that's the case, then
he was a full participant yesterday and that's the way
Zach Taylor was this morning. And they're not shooting it down,
then that leads me to believe that Joe Burrow can
(21:53):
go do it. So then I am four Joe Burrow
going in doing it. Yes, I agree with you. I
will think back though to the calf injury. Okay, he
was not ready to play in Week one against Cleveland,
and out of doubt, that game was a slugfest in
(22:15):
the rain. It was miserable, he couldn't move. They got destroyed.
Week two looked a.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Lot better against Baltimore, but what happened Joe Burrow towards
the end of the game reaggravated the calf. That week,
going into a Monday night game against the Rams, we
had the famous golf cart ride with Mike Brown, and
it was understandable if Joe Burrow were to not play
(22:43):
in that game. Now, the Bengals were zero and two,
but it was understandable if a guy had reaggravated that
calf that he wouldn't play in that game. And by
all indications that conversation was meant to be Joe. We
got to think long term here, and I don't think
it's a good idea that you play and Joe Burrow
played anyways. I think they give him the benefit of
(23:07):
the doubt, that he knows how his body feels, and
if he feels like he can play, they will allow
him to play. That is the precedent that was set
with the calf injury. And so I'm already seeing people
basically accusing the Bengals of rushing him back. Well, if
they were rushing him back, first of all, nobody expected
(23:32):
this to happen. Nobody thought we'd be where we are
right now. They to the point that you just made,
have a system and a process that they have to
go to to even get to this point. And if
a player is medically cleared and feels comfortable doing so playing,
(23:56):
how is that considered rushing him back? And I do
think there is something to be said about the fact
that they are three and seven and if they have
any hope at all, they have to win the last
seven games. Now, are that gonna happen?
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Maybe not.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I also think it's risky that you have to turn
right back around and play on Thursday. And when you consider,
you know, the stress that that foot will be under
and that toe will be under, and all you got
to deal with and the recovery and the short you know,
I think that's a fair criticism and meaning for pause.
But if the guy feels good enough to do all
that he's done so far, has proven to be a
(24:34):
fast healer multiple times over the course of his career,
is medically cleared to do so, and gives you the
best chance to win, even if it's first game back.
Joe Burrow, and we've seen by the way that Joe
Burrow needs reps. He's normally not very good in the
month of September. He's normally not very good when he's
(24:56):
just starting his season. So he might come out and play,
let's say, play Sunday, might not play that. Well, that's
a possibility. But if he feels like he can do it,
and if medically there's no reason not to, and you
have the right thing in his shoe to help protect him,
why wouldn't he do it?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, that's that to me is the key. If the
training staff were saying you can play, but you can't
get stepped on, well, then I think twice about it,
Like if he gets stepped on and it completely resets
his his recovery. And now you're talking about this lingering
into the offseason, which then lingers into another weird transition
(25:37):
where you don't get a normal offseason for Joe Burrow.
That's a different story when you're talking about a guy
that's coming back as early as he did. Austin, I
was with you and this injury happened. I didn't think
we'd see him the rest of the year.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
No, I confidently said, no chance.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
And if so, I'm thinking, like, Okay, Miami run out
the last three games. You got to get some reps. Anyway,
he has shattered that. I am trusting training staff. And
again the scenarios you described, the calf and the golf
cart ride. One could argue the Bengals needed to do
more for Joe Burrow to say we get it, but
(26:11):
you're not doing it. That's what I want on this situation.
If he's good, and you, as a training staff are
confident that he's good, then go play.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I also don't think anybody in life or in football
should get into the habit of doing everything out of
an abundance of fear. Yes, it's possible that he gets
re injured. It's possible that every single player that plays
Sunday gets injured. That's the nature of the National Football
League and I've outlined it before. Burrow's injuries most of
(26:45):
the time have just been unlucky. It's not been you know,
stuff that you would consider to be injury prone injuries
is foot got stuck in the turf, the play and
how Jamar Chase didn't win at the line of scrimmage,
stuff that really has nothing to do with whether or
not a player is injury prone. But yes, he's been
(27:08):
injured more than the average player, But I don't think
it's wise to operate out of fear. Now you could say, okay, well,
the Bengals need to lose some games to get a
better draft pick. I would hear you, and dear god,
I've seen this defense. I don't know if Joe playing
is going to matter that much, but he wants to play,
(27:30):
He's healthy enough to play, he's being paid to play.
Why not play?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
There's also this and we'll get a break in. There's
also this at at the very core of this. If
Joe Burrow were at all limited Austin and oh, by
the way, you don't have Jamar Chase, wouldn't you think
that would be reason to push it off for one
more week? He's got a field darn good to be like, yeah,
I'm good to go even without Jamar Chase out there.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Well, I would push back and say, what if that
accelerated the timeline in his mind? Oh crap, we don't
have Jamar. That really got to get out there.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I just I don't know if you want to risk,
if you're unsure, you're gonna hold onto the ball a
little bit longer. When Chase isn't out there because now
the defense is able to shift to that. Now t
Higgins gets all the attention. Your other guy's got to
win one on one matchups. I think there is an
inherent risk of doing it without Jamar Chase, and I
think the idea that he's still willing to do that,
(28:21):
and if so, again this we can have practice today Austin,
and it could be Joe Flacco took the reps and
Joe Burrow was limited and we're right back to this
and then we're talking about Thanksgiving and can Joe play
because you make the point as well, do you want
him to play Sunday and then have a quick turnaround
and play Thursday night. That's all warranted. We'll get more
information today, but this is us doing what we have
(28:43):
with the information we've been given to this point.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
And I do think it's noteworthy that the tone and
the voice of Zach Taylor, we have listened to hours
of this guy talk, he never sounds like that, almost
nesting to him Sunday Monday and wind sounds like that.
Now they haven't been winning a lot, and he wasn't
talking directly after a loss, so that probably has something
to do with it, But yeah, I mean it's just
(29:11):
I have no problem with that. I think that one
of the questions needs to be answered too, is is
Joe Burrow at whatever percentage he is? Yeah, because I
think it's probably unfair to think he's one hundred percent.
He might be looking like it and acting like that,
but still you're coming off of a surgery that was eight,
(29:32):
nine weeks ago, whatever it was. So let's say he's
eighty five percent. Is Joe Burrow at eighty five percent
a better player and a better chance to win than
either of the following two options, Jake Browning at one
hundred percent or Joe Flacco at let's say seventy five
percent with his shoulder.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
As long as that eighty five percent doesn't run the
risk of going back to.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Zero percent, Well it does with every player.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
But see so in my personal experience, I played less
than one hundred percent, but I was given the guarantee.
I was given the understanding you could get hurt, but
it's not going to be it's not going to be
worse than what it is right now. Like if you're like,
it would have been different for me if it was like, hey,
if you take a hit, and you fall this way,
(30:21):
you're going to be reset back to zero it was.
It might hurt, but you're not going to do any
more damage to it, right, And so for me, I'm like, Okay,
I'm eighty percent, but I'm playing because nothing else is
going to happen.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Would the people that have pause about this be more
concerned about a re injury of the toe or a
another injury?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Well, see, that's that's the thing, because I feel like
that you had gone through this vigorous rehab process. Have
you put so much focus on the toe that now
you're going to run the risk of a calf injury?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Well, you know, last time Joe talked, he said he's
been lifting for weeks, right, and they've been kind of
doing still doing doing all the upper body stuff. And
you know, that's that's a question we don't really know
the answer to, honestly because we're not in the room,
but because it feels like to me, the hesitation has
been more about he's just gonna get hurt again, yeah,
(31:08):
and not about oh, he's going to reinjure the tow.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah. So's what's interesting here. I don't know that there's
a difference, but yeah, I mean, it's all fair and
it's stuff again. We can see how today plays out.
Maybe tomorrow's a different conversation. But it's just interesting that
on a day where we're talking about Joe Burrow playing
through injury, you're coming back from injury. Nick Kral made
some interesting comments about Elie Da La Cruz and Bump
(31:31):
bum By. Oh my, do we need to discuss that
as well? We'll do so next On ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station. Thanks to sky Linchiley, you've.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Been listening to Football in the NATI on ESPN fifteen thirty,
the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Your favorite neighborhood spots run on score.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
This is Dave Laflock and you're listening to the Home
of the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Murder Bootshin Kobe seven point two, Paul.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Fake into Kobe checked Byoftia, down to five, down to four,
game on the line. Right here, he takes Murray, he
ducks Utter, boots.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
For the wind By Fin has done it again.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Put some respects. Oh fuci made's name bag Bag Bag Lake,
game Killer?
Speaker 2 (32:24):
What's coming back to Chicago? What's coming back home? But
Carneac Bulls do it again. Well, y'all gonna put some
respect on Fochie Maine's names.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Watch this right here, the run, the little misdirection made
three point basket.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Here it is right here. Boji said, what's the respect
of my name? Get it out the neck?
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Bang bang bye bang bang by.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Good played by Kobe White. Oh, that's that's deep. Three
point that's that's over. This is a rap, Chicago. It's
a rap. Oh drive home safely bed. That is so good.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Oh, Stacy King is the absolute best. Get it out
the net, so flipping good man.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Get it out the net. I love his excitement. And then,
like in the most callboys, a great play by Kobe.
It was.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
It was ridiculous played by Kobe.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
But like in the excitement, he could have been like,
what a play He's like, great play by Kobe.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Chicago. That was the call of the Chicago Sports Network.
Stacey King, you heard there is the Chicago Bulls their
second buzzer beater, victory of the year. Second buzzer beater
by Vucci Man.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Vucci Man, so good man. That's our call of the day,
brought to you by our friends of wind Schulers. Thanks
to our friends of Win Schulers. Their four delicious cheese
spreads pair well with anything for the holiday season.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
I think I saw he's like vooches is passed, like
Ben Gordon on the Bulls All Time list or something,
which is kind of hard to believe. Focx Ben Gordon
probably beating somebody up at an airport right now.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Now you want to talk about hard to believe, You
want to talk about hard to believe. There were many
folks that watched all season for the Cincinnati Reds and
they probably thought, man, something just looks off with Ellie.
Speaker 7 (34:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Defense was a problem. He wasn't hitting for power, wasn't
stealing a ton of bases. It just the electricity wasn't there.
You know, a slow ground out what it would happen,
And I'm like, oh, he's gonna beat that out and
he'd get thrown out by two or three steps. Just
things we had seen from Ellie and it just didn't
seem right. But the season went and they finished up
(34:36):
and Ellie played, and you know he wanted to make
the point, wants to play one sixty two, wants to
be the shortstop, wants to do all this, and you
kind of just thought Okay, maybe you know he he
was dealing with some stuff. He's going through some hard time,
like just an offseason. It's off season, and the season
ended and you didn't really hear anything, so you kind
of just put it to bed. And then yesterday we're
(34:58):
enthralled with everything going on with Joe burn and then
Nick Krawl steps up on the Red's hot stove and
has this to say about one Ellie de la Cruz.
Speaker 7 (35:10):
So, if you look at his year last year, and
I think a lot of people don't know this, at
the end of the year, towards the end of July,
he was dealing with a partial torn quad and he
has been rehabbing. He's at the ballpark. He was at
the ballpark today. He's been rehabbing over the last this
whole offseason. To his credit, he played every day. He
(35:32):
tried to grind through it. He tried to play through it.
If you look at his defensive numbers, he made twelve
airs through roughly towards the end of July when he
got hurt, and then he made fourteen from the end
of July on. He's trying to play through it. He
wasn't able to do it as successful as possible. I
think he had a stretch of games where he had
nineteen homers and he didn't hit one until some point
(35:54):
in September. That's going to affect him. That's gonna affect
everything he does. But to his credit, he was trying
to play every single day through it. He tried to
grind through it, and to the detriment of himself, he
didn't play up to where he was. But a large
part of that is because he's trying to play through
the injury. So I do think that you look at
(36:15):
where he was up until that point where he got hurt,
and he was definitely better defensively.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
It's just he.
Speaker 7 (36:23):
He didn't finish the way he started.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
This infuriates me. This eats away at me because here
we are talking about for Joe Burrow and the organization
having his best interest in mind, and there are a
couple things here he went on to talk about, you know,
he's still rehabbing this, which is also worrisome because the
scene has been over for some time and he's still rehabbing.
The injury is still not one hundred percent. But here's
(36:46):
what infuriates me. Austin is not only to say that
Ellie was dealing with that injury. But to go on
and then almost back up that Ellie's bad play was
due to the injury. He made all the airs, or
made a majority of the airs because because of the injury.
He wasn't hitting for power because of the injury. So
here's my issue. Your star player is trying to play hurt.
(37:09):
Kudos to him for wanting to be out there every day,
but while being out there, this would be like the
equivalent Austin of Joe Burrow going out there and playing
Sunday and taking like nine sacks and throwing three picks
because he's he's he's not one hundred percent, you know
what I mean. But instead Nick Krawl just says kudos
(37:29):
to him for playing through it when he went through
this stretch of a home run law and he went
through this stretch of making all these airs that are
directly correlated to him being injured, and no one inside
this organization sat Ellie de la Cruz down and said,
you've got to sit down for a while. You've got
to take a seat. You can't you can't play every day.
(37:51):
We got to get you healthy. It's not worth it.
At this point, there was a point, they dropped him
in the order.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Again.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
We were enraged all season one. Why is Ellie playing
every day? Why is he batting third? He's not good
in the field right now, he's not hitting home runs.
And here goes Nick Crawl to say, well, the reason
he was doing that because he was playing injured. Someone
has to have the back of your players within the
organization to say, I respect the heck out of what
you're trying to do, but it ain't working.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Instead, we got Terry Francona saying, oh, he's got a leg. Yep,
that was the explanation. If you remember back in late July,
early August, Terry Francona was like, he's dealing with some stuff.
He's got a leg. That was the most that we got.
It's just it was irresponsible, I think, by the ball club,
by the manager, by the president of baseball operations, by
(38:43):
the ownership group, by everybody. Here's our best player dealing
with a semi serious injury and it's causing him to
perform poorly, which ultimately is hurting the baseball team. Let's
consider pivoting on our plan. Just because I say I
want to do something at work doesn't mean I get
(39:04):
to do it right. Like perfect example, training camp this
past year. I really wanted to work on those training
camp shows. I wanted to be a part of that,
and I asked to be, but I was told no.
Unfortunate for me. But I don't get all that. I
don't get what I want all the time. Elie de
la Cruz wants to play one hundred and sixty two games, right, well,
(39:25):
too bad, you're hurt. You're not helping the team. You've
got to sit down.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Just because a star player says he wants to do
something doesn't mean he gets to do it. And by
the way, you can apply that same logic to Joe Burrow.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
That's what I mean.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
The Bengals can say, no, man, we're not ready, it's
not the right time.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Or he can go out there on Sunday and play
poorly in the Bengals say, man, it's just in word,
We're gonna set your back down.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Correct, like that's it's okay to do that. And in
that sense, you're putting the baseball team ahead of the player,
which is what it should always be.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Who's to say they couldn't have sat him down for
two weeks and come back and all of a sudden
he's better in the field and at the play. Yeah,
and then you get more out of him. You hurt
the team exactly, and you hurt the interest of your
best player.
Speaker 7 (40:12):
Right.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
It is irresponsible from the program. That is infuriating to
me from Nick Krall.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
And I listen, I'm sure Ellie is not innocent in this.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
No, but that's not Ellie's job. Elle's job is to
want to play, true.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
It's just it's further proof I just don't have any
faith in this organization. And let's let's go back to
the conversation we had earlier this week about Hunter Green.
Hunter Green kind of doing his own thing, his own
timeline and getting himself ready and getting himself back. Now,
he was criticized for that, and I don't know that
that went over all that well internally, But there is
(40:49):
a reason there's a distrust between a player and the organization.
This could be an example of that, like sometimes you
got to protect someone from himself. It's just it's it's
really upsetting to hear that, and that dude, that dude
(41:12):
had a lot going on last year.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
And I understand that baseball is probably a good way
for him to escape, and that's fair. But also, if
he has ten days on the injured list yep, and
he's still around his team and he's still in the
dugout and he's getting treatment and all of that, is
that really going to change things all that much? Correct,
(41:35):
Because in that stretching games, he wasn't winning games for him.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
So there was a clip that I saw because one
of my buddies reposted it and it was a Marcus
Freeman when he was an assistant coach at Purdue. Yeah,
and the clip is Marcus Freeman and he says this,
I'm not here to be your friend. I'm here to
push you. I'm here to challenge you, and I'm here
to help you be successful. That's the job. That's the standard.
(42:06):
I'm a coach that needs to be applied to this
situation with the reds Ellie. I love you, I want
to be your friend, but more importantly, I'm here to
make sure that you're successful and I have your best
interest in mind. You got to trust me on this one.
You're not helping us right now, you're not helping yourself.
(42:28):
You got to sit down. I'm also that's the job
of that's the job of a team. I'm surprised that
this happened from Terry Francone. Of course, if David Bell
had done this, I don't know that I would have
been that surprised. Players coach just you know, more of
that type of personality. But Francona, he's brought in for
(42:48):
this type of stuff, for the tough love in the
development of a young player. And you know, to me,
I think that also from a player's perspective, you could
answer this better than me. Almost shows seeds of distrust
in the sense of you're not doing what's best for
us to win.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Yep, you think Ellie's teammates were out there watching him
and thinking, this, dude gives us the best chance to win.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
What's hurt me, what worries me is the situation of, man,
if we sit Ellie for two weeks, so what's that
mean for people coming to the games? You know, I've
heard this with Joe Burrow too, and it's like that
if that's ever a thought, then we're in a completely
different stratosphere. There are people out there, people I've talked
to today that believe the whole Joe Burrow thing is
(43:37):
a ruse to get people to buy tickets to the
game on Sunday. How would it affect the Reds if
Ellie were to be out for three weeks?
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I mean that would be less people going to the games. Sure,
who cares? Your job is to make sure that your
player's taking care of And who's to say that a
two or three week rest period for Ellie Daily Cruiz
wouldn't have had him come back on a healthy tear
that carried this team to the playoffs and more. We
don't know that. All we know is the stretch Ellie
(44:05):
went on without hitting a home run, without stealing bases,
with making a ton of airs because he was compromised.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
I really hope that that's not a conversation that's at
I'm you and me, both you and me both regarding
ticket sales.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yep, all right, let's do this. Let's take a break,
let's come back. We'll finish up our number one. We've
got John Sheeran eight of E Sports. We'll talk more
about Joe Burrow and the Cincinnati Bengals talkbacks. We've got
Kyle Schwarber audio we'll get to as we go this
afternoon as well. We got a ton of time left.
Stick with us on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station
thanks to Skyline Chili school my goodness to Angel Ridge
(44:50):
from Jeff Henry on a Thursday afternoon. It just hits
a little bit differently. Happy to have you along since
he three to sixty thanks to Skyline Chili on esp
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Hopefully Jeff sometime in twenty
twenty six can get us that new album and we
can change that out for one of his new songs.
We'll wait and see. I know Jeff is listening, so
(45:12):
shout out to him. Shout out to you for being
along with this as well. We've got two hours still
to go. John Sheeran is gonna kick things off in
our number two from eight. His is E Sports covering
the Cincinnati Bengals. We've talked Bengals and Burrow, We've talked
Red's and Ellie. We've got to talk more on the
Cincinnati Bengals and the New England Patriots when we return
our number two next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports
(45:34):
Station until u c K.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
Wise Cincinnati, make us the number one pre set on
your car radio and on the free New and Improved
iHeartRadio app free never sounded so good ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
More than a few of our patients have talked
This is Tony Pike Sincey three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati,
sponsored in part by Skyline Chili. Stop by Skyline Chili
for a three way or cheese cony today. Feeling good,
It's Skyline Time. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
All right, Den, welcome in, Happy Thursday. Let's do it.
We got three hours of Cinty three sixty on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. You just heard it right there,
thanks to Skyline Chili. Anytime you're feeling good and hungry
at Skyline Time, maybe you've already kind of started to
dive into the holiday shopping and things just aren't clicking
like you hoped. Well, I got an easy solution for
(00:44):
you at Skyline Chili Skyline Gift Cards. And the best
part about getting the Skyline Gift card is when you
go in to buy the gift card, you just eat
and have lunch or dinner, whatever you want to do,
all thanks to our friends at Skyline Chili. Here's what
we got today, and it's quite a lot. There are
times hand up three hours feels like a lot of
time to cover for a sports radio show, And then
(01:06):
there are days like today where it feels like three
hours isn't nearly enough for what we want to try
to accomplish on today's program. So here's what we got.
Let's work back to front our number three. Keegan Nickoson
Bearcat Journal dot Com. He'll join us. Why big weekend
for the Cincinnati Bearcats. They play Louisville in basketball tomorrow
(01:27):
night at the Heritage Bank Arena, and then on Saturday,
big noon kickoff is in town ahead of a eight
pm start nip at night you see versus the eleventh
rank team in the country, the BYU Cougas, coming into town.
Keegan Nickoson will get us all set up for that.
Speaking of Friday nights, speaking of UC and Louisville, Wes
(01:49):
miller I, head basketball coach of the Cincinnati Bearcats, will
join us in our number three as well our number two.
You know what it is with talkbacks, those happen in
their normal place in time. And John Shearon height is
e Sports covering the Cincinnati Bengals, and boy do we
have a lot of talk about with the Bengals. He'll
join us at one o'clock. In between all of that,
(02:12):
we've got audio that you're gonna want to hear audio
of Zach Taylor. Earlier this morning with Tom Brenneman down
the hall on WLW. Nick Krawl sent shockwaves to many
with an Elie de la Cruz comment. You'll hear that.
You'll hear Nick Krawl's comment on the off season. And
Kyle Schwarber was in town last night. He was being
(02:32):
honored in Middletown, and our own Bill Seg Dennison was there,
and we've got some Seg audio with Kyle Schwarberg. All
of this is supposed to fit in just three hours.
We'll see how we can do. We won't spend as
(02:53):
much time in the first segment on everything else going
on in the world sports. Let's just get that out
of the way right now. College basketball last night saw
a good one, and I mean a good one. In
the early part of the season. Arizona went on the
road to Yukon. That's number three verse number four, The
number four Arizona Wildcats beat Yukon on the road seventy
(03:14):
one sixty seven. And then another good one in Chicago
the United Center. Illinois, number eight in the country, hosted
number eleven Alabama. Alabama outlast Illinois ninety to eighty six.
And if you're charting a path forward for the Cincinnati
Bearcats and you're like me and you're thinking, hmm, how
(03:35):
can I talk myself into UC keeping it close tomorrow
against Louisville, maybe finding a way to win at the end. Well,
here's this. Kentucky got boat raced by Michigan State earlier
in the week. So maybe the Louisville win over Kentucky
isn't as impressive as we thought. And a lot of
people wanted to pick apart the Dayton win. Well, Dayton
went on the road last night and beat Marquette in overtime,
(03:56):
and Mount Saint mary who gave UC a ton of
fits in the first on Sunday, they went on the
road last night and took Maryland to overtime. So if
you're looking for positives, there is a positive. I also
saw this, Austin. Did you see what came from the
Twitter machine of coach Richard Patino from Xavier No yesterday?
(04:18):
He tweeted out better not sent out grades. He said
report card from last night, and then he tagged that
barstool big cat and he said coaching a plus. That
was it.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
That was his great I don't think that's funny.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So I think that's I think he's gonna get a
little pushback. We're just saying, uh, Thursday Night football tonight.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
See I see that big cat said thank you?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yep, Thursday night football? Is it okay? Is it a
sneaky good one? With the Bills going on the road
at the Houston Texans.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Speaking of the Houston Texans, news coming down right at
the start of the show that former Bengals running back
and current Houston Texan Mixon is not expected to play
at all this season due to that lingering foot injury.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
He's been on the pup.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
So it's gonna be Nick Chubb and Woody Mark's moving forward.
That that's stuff that that stinks for Joe Mixon, Yeah,
because I thought he had a pretty good season last year,
worked well in Houston, but got hurt before the season.
Thought he would come back. I guess it's just lingered.
But yeah, I think those teams are probably a little
closer than you would think. If you listen to the
show at all, you know that I generally side with
(05:31):
the home team on Thursday Night Football. But Buffalo, I
think is desperate. Yeah, and I would take Josh Allen
over Davis Mills. With all due respect to Davis Mills
in company. Some call him Davis General Miles. But yeah,
I'm gonna take Buffalo to win that game. I thought
it was King's like that a lot.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I'll mean two quick NFL things before we dive into
everything Cincinnati sports here and now Number one, there is
uh critics. I'm coming to two different players in the
National Football League. One is injured, one is not one.
You see all these people, big man, that camp Scataboo
is doing everything right now. He was at a UFC
fight the other night, and then he was at Monday
night rawl for WWE and he was getting into altercations.
(06:14):
Do you care how people spend their time when they're
rehabbing from an injury.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Uh. If camp Scataboo had just shoved the guy, that's
one thing. But when he's there kind of going back
and forth and getting shoved, I don't. I'm not a
big fan of that. I think it's different. If he
was like on like the IR and he was coming
back in four weeks, that's fair. His season's over, that's fair,
you know. So how someone wants to operate through that
(06:39):
I'm okay with but he is getting a lot of
heat for that. He is a very strange guy, and I.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Also think there's something to cashing in while you're why
your stock is hot.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Sure, especially in New York, people know about that. I
wonder how long the shelf life is for him. That's
that's my biggest I think. So he acts right now
the way Antonio Brown did towards the end of his career, Sure,
and I just wonder how long that lasts. The other
player getting a lot of criticism is Jalen Hurts of
(07:10):
the Eagles. He has taken a lot of criticism. There
are reports of frustration inside the organization. He, like he
does with everything else, has handled it in extreme profession,
not surprised nature of the position. I put my energy
and focus on going out there and doing my best
and trying to learn, build and take things that can
try to improve on. According to a report by The
(07:33):
Athletic people on the team have talked about his hesitancy
to throw the ball into tight windows against zone coverage
and Jalen Hurts playing quote his game instead of taking
what is discussed during the week and transitioning it to
the game. So Here's what I say, Austin, where do
you stand with Jalen Hurts? Because Philly is eight and two.
(07:53):
Their offense has been disappointing, but they're the best red
zone offense in the NFL and have a league low
f four giveaways on the season. Do you really want
Jalen Hurts fitting the ball into small windows when you
have a good defense, or if you don't turn the
ball over and you're efficient in the red zone?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Is not enough?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
What is the difference between a quarterback who's a game
manager and a quarterback who's highly efficient. Because I feel
like Jalen Hurts is somewhere in between, and I think
he is a different type of leader, a different type
of person and personality. But more than anything, I think
(08:34):
he needs people around him to be at a high level.
And Philly has just kind of been up and down.
They've had some injuries on their offensive line. Saquan hasn't
been one hundred percent, the run game hasn't exactly been
the same, and there's been I've also seen a lot
of criticism of their offensive coordinator, Kevin Petula. If I
said his name correctly, I'm not sure, but I'm a
(08:57):
believer in Jalen hurts. Is he going to go and
win you games? Is he going to put the team
on his shoulders? Probably not, but he's not gonna lose
games for you. And I think that's important.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I also think it should be noted every single time
the postseason has come around, he's played elevates and in
both Super Bowls he was awesome. They should have won
that first Super Bowl against the Chiefs, and he put
on one of the best performances you'll ever see in
the Super Bowl by a losing quarterback, and multiple times
(09:33):
in the postseason he showed up. That has to count.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I just think there's some let's say about a guy
that's not turning the ball over and a guy whose
team is still eight and two.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Philly is a difficult place to play.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Without a doubt, all right, So let's get into the
meat of everything that has happened over such like the
last twenty four hours or so. Let's start with the
Joe Burrow stuff, because this to me, even though there
is a lot to get into with what Nick Kral
(10:03):
had to say about Elie Dai ly Cruz and I
know we'll give our thoughts and opinions on that the
Joe Burrow stuff to me is fascinating and I want
to do here in segment one, I want to I
want to get the audio ready with Zach Taylor and
Tom Brenhaman this morning and we'll set it up here
in a way if you're following along. We heard from
Zach Taylor yesterday and Zach said that Joe would would
(10:28):
do some eleven on eleven and yesterday's practice, and then
yesterday's practice happened and Joe Burrow not only practiced, but
he was listed on the injury report as a full participant. Now,
this is my first indication, Austin, and what I believe
is Joe Burrow getting ready to play if the Bengals
(10:48):
wanted to. The opening part of practice is open to
the media and then it's closed. Correct, Correct, So Joe
Burrow could have went through his normal early routine and
then practice happens and the media is no, and the
Bengals could have listed Joe Burrow as limited. They listed
him as a full participant. That to me says that
(11:09):
Joe Burrow is gonna play. If not, just say he's
limited because you're still working through some stuff. And I
don't think anyone would have bought it an eye if
the injury report came out yesterday and it was Joe
Burrow limited and we heard that he took some eleven
on eleven reps, would you have been surprised by that?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
No, Instead, he's a full participant. The important part here
is Jake Browning. Now, Zach Taylor told us Joe Flacco
is not going to throw, which means he's not gonna
take the eleven on eleven reps. And in order for
an injured player who's in that twenty one day window
(11:46):
to be listed as a full participant in practice, they
have to take one hundred percent of the first team reps,
which means Jake Browning did not take any first team
reps yesterday, correct, Which tells me it's either Joe Flacco
(12:06):
or Joe Burrow. Yes, now, it could very well be
today where Flacco continues on the plan sure like he
has been, and he's listed as limited and Burrow's listed
as limited. If they split the first team reps of practice,
I feel like that's probably where we're going. And then
we get to Friday and Joe will both Joe's will
(12:29):
be listed as questionable. That's how I think we're that's
the direction I think we're going. But the fact that
Browning didn't take any tells me it's gonna be one
of the Joe's. It is Uh, it's incredible. Can we
do can we uh, let's do this. Let's break a
little early. Then let's come back with the audio of
Zach Taylor with Tom Brenneman, and then we'll react to
(12:49):
that as well. Knowing the practice report from yesterday, it's
since he three to sixty on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati
Sports Station, thanks to our friends at Scott.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
This is Football in the NATTI, brought to you by
Postman Law on ESPN fifteen point thirty, the official home
of the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
All right, welcome back. It is since he three to sixty.
This is part of now Football in the NATI thanks
to Skyline Chilly here now number one. Okay, as if
what we described yesterday and the way Zach described what
practice was going to be like, and then the injury
report that came out, there was already people going and
running with it yesterday. Dan rolofsky on NFL Live yesterday said, oh,
he was a full participant. He's playing on Sunday, he's
(13:33):
going to be under center. Well, then you fast forward
to earlier this morning, Tom Brendan down the Hall in
Wow did his weekly hit with Zach Taylor. Take a
listen to Zach Taylor's comments with Tom Brendan earlier this morning.
Starting with what Zach Taylor saw from Joe Burrow yesterday's practice.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
I was pleased. I thought he looked good first day,
taking eleven on eleven reps and so that was a
great starting point for him and hadn't done that for
two months, so I was pleased for myself.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
He is listed as a full participant. Is Joe Burrow
going to play on Sunday?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Well, we don't know that yet.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
You know, it's kind of a balance of Joe Flacco
has n't been practicing on Wednesdays, so it was a
great opportunity to get Joe Burrow out there to take
as many reps as possible. So yeah, he took all
the revs. But but that was a balance with Joe
has not been practicing on Wednesdays last few weeks, and
so we'll just keep working through these next couple of days.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
When do you plan on making a decision about that?
Because Look, it's what everybody's talking about. I mean, you
were born maybe at night, but not last night. You
know that. That's what everybody is talking about. Is Joe
Burrow coming back? So you know, I mean, is there,
let's put it this way, is there a chance that
he plays Sunday?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Well, I'm not there yet.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
You know, it's one day of practice. Isn't going to
lead to that decision yet? So what's the time we
have at our disposal and come with the best decision
we can.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Are you amazed by how quickly he's recovered from this.
I have Julieu Isfording, who was an Olympian marathon runner.
She had the same thing, did you? Joe Burrow said
it was the most grueling rehab that she's ever been through,
and she's been through back surgeries and knee surgeries and
all that kind of thing. Are you even amazed that
he's even on the practice field at this point in time?
Speaker 5 (15:12):
Am I amazed?
Speaker 6 (15:13):
Now?
Speaker 5 (15:13):
Because I've watched this guy for the last six years
and I've seen him. He's obviously wired different than everybody else.
That's why he's who he That's why he's a national champion,
Heisman Trophy winning first pick in the draft, all that
kind of stuff, NFL comeback player, the all the stuff
that he's earned.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
And so.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
I've just now seen enough to where I just know
that's who he is. And this isn't the first rehab
he's had to go through, so he knew what that
process was. Obviously different injuries. Proud of him, not surprised.
Maybe surprises the rest of the world, but it's really
impressive the work that he's done to get back on
the field as quickly as he did.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
You have to make a decision, and you'll consult with others.
But will this be a situation where Joe might come
into you, Joe Burrow, he might come to you and say, hey,
you know, coach, I feel like I'm ready to go.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, And then that's that's that's my job,
you know, to balance balance all the information and protect
the player and and make the.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
Best decision possible. But yeah, absolutely, he's he's certainly got
his opinions when he's put in the work and feels
how he does, and and we'll balance all that information.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
All right.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Come on, come on, coach, come on, I'm going to
circle back to it one more time.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I have to do it.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Come on, there are more people that listening to this
morning show than than anywhere else and they are huge
me too, Bengal fan. Come on, coach, you can tell
us right now. Burrow's playing it. He's playing it.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
Yeah, No, I wish I could. I wish I had
that decision today, you know, honestly, it's I'm going to
take in all the information I can and make sure
it's the best one for for Joe and our team
and we'll go from there.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
All right. I have so many thoughts on this.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
So first of all, great job by Dyeah, just right
right to the point.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Awesome, awesome stuff by Tom So I'll I'll give my
thoughts here, and then Austin, I want to take your
thoughts as well. That to me, right off the job,
I've listened to that like three times. That doesn't sound
like a coach who's teams three and seven, who's been
dealing with pressure and stress and frustration. It doesn't sound
(17:26):
like a coach that's preparing for one of the best
teams in football without his best player in Jamar Chase.
It doesn't sound like a coach beaten down over the
course of the season with rumors about his job and
how bad this defense is. That sounds like a coach
to me early in the morning on a Thursday afternoon.
That's got a little pepinist step. Why you can put
(17:48):
two and two together. But I go back to the
injury report yesterday and I go back to Zach Taylor
while not saying Joe is going to start on Sunday
or Joe's going to play on Sunday, also left the
door open multiple times with Tom Brenneman where he could
have shut it down. Well, you know, this is part
of the rehab process. It was always going to be
(18:08):
Joe on Wednesday and then Flacco on Thursday, but he's
not quite there yet. He left the door open for everything.
And what I think is one of the most important
parts and takeaways of what we just heard between Zach
and Tom is Zach saying, of course Joe is gonna
want to play, but me, as the coach, it's my
(18:29):
job to make sure it's in the best interest of
Joe as well. That to me is all this comes
down to. If this team were let's say, going into
week sixteen or seventeen, and it was a must win
to make the playoffs, and Joe Burrow was eighty percent.
But you want to play him because he gives you
the best chance to win, then I'm playing him at
(18:50):
that point in the season. If not for Sunday, then
I have to rely on the trainers. I went on
with with Scott Sloane earlier this morning. I talked about this,
and we have Bob Manjen on most weeks from the
University of Cincinnati. I was so lucky at the University
of Cincinnati because Bob Manjean and others, regardless of all
(19:14):
other pressures or how quick can we get someone back,
I knew that the training staff at you See had
my best interest in mind, and that made things easier
for me. Of Course, I want to play. I want
to get out there. The training staff is the one
that doesn't care to have to be the bad guy. Sometimes.
If Bob Manjean told me you're good, you can go play,
(19:40):
then I'm going to listen to him and go play.
And that is the same way I view this for
the Bengals and their training staff and coaching staff. If
Joe Burrow is good to go, and Joe Burrow is
medically cleared and they have confidence that he can operate
the way that he needs to operate for this team
to be successful and for him to be safe, and
(20:02):
they're signing off on that, then I have to trust them.
I have to trust the team, the doctors, the medical
staff that they are operating with the best interest of
their franchise quarterback. And if that means Joe can play
on Sunday, then I'm all for Joe playing on Sunday,
because that's the inner workings. Zach Taylor meets with the
(20:26):
training staff multiple times per day every day to get updates.
That's how that works. He has been hand in hand
along this whole process and has probably known that this
was a possibility since the boot came off of Joe Burrow.
Now one could say, well, what if Joe's just saying
is okay, but he's really in a lot of pain.
That's fine. They're taking images, they're doing x rays, you're
(20:48):
having MRIs. You can tell how much it's healed. And
you also have to weigh the risk. What if he
gets stepped on under center? Is he willing to go
under center? Is he able to go under center? Can
you operate the way you want to If he's not
able to go under center, can he with stand a hit.
Can he withstand a three hundred pound human stepping on
(21:09):
his foot in the scenario where that happens. Can he
navigate the pocket in a way that is successful and
safe for him to do so? And at the end
of the day, if that training staff says yes, then
I am all for Joe Burrow going out there and
playing again. If he's eighty percent and you're in week
(21:30):
sixteen and you have to win, then maybe you have
to roll the dice. But at three and seven, I
don't feel like they're rolling the dice. At three and seven.
I feel like they're like, you're healthy, go play, you
don't have the limitations. And if that's the case, then
he was a full participant yesterday and that's the way
Zach Taylor was this morning. And they're not shooting it down,
then that leads me to believe that Joe Burrow can
(21:53):
go do it. So then I am four Joe Burrow
going in doing it. Yes, I agree with you. I
will think back though to the calf injury. Okay, he
was not ready to play in Week one against Cleveland,
and out of doubt, that game was a slugfest in
(22:15):
the rain. It was miserable, he couldn't move. They got destroyed.
Week two looked a.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Lot better against Baltimore, but what happened Joe Burrow towards
the end of the game reaggravated the calf. That week,
going into a Monday night game against the Rams, we
had the famous golf cart ride with Mike Brown, and
it was understandable if Joe Burrow were to not play
(22:43):
in that game. Now, the Bengals were zero and two,
but it was understandable if a guy had reaggravated that
calf that he wouldn't play in that game. And by
all indications that conversation was meant to be Joe. We
got to think long term here, and I don't think
it's a good idea that you play and Joe Burrow
played anyways. I think they give him the benefit of
(23:07):
the doubt, that he knows how his body feels, and
if he feels like he can play, they will allow
him to play. That is the precedent that was set
with the calf injury. And so I'm already seeing people
basically accusing the Bengals of rushing him back. Well, if
they were rushing him back, first of all, nobody expected
(23:32):
this to happen. Nobody thought we'd be where we are
right now. They to the point that you just made,
have a system and a process that they have to
go to to even get to this point. And if
a player is medically cleared and feels comfortable doing so playing,
(23:56):
how is that considered rushing him back? And I do
think there is something to be said about the fact
that they are three and seven and if they have
any hope at all, they have to win the last
seven games. Now, are that gonna happen?
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Maybe not.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I also think it's risky that you have to turn
right back around and play on Thursday. And when you consider,
you know, the stress that that foot will be under
and that toe will be under, and all you got
to deal with and the recovery and the short you know,
I think that's a fair criticism and meaning for pause.
But if the guy feels good enough to do all
that he's done so far, has proven to be a
(24:34):
fast healer multiple times over the course of his career,
is medically cleared to do so, and gives you the
best chance to win, even if it's first game back.
Joe Burrow, and we've seen by the way that Joe
Burrow needs reps. He's normally not very good in the
month of September. He's normally not very good when he's
(24:56):
just starting his season. So he might come out and play,
let's say, play Sunday, might not play that. Well, that's
a possibility. But if he feels like he can do it,
and if medically there's no reason not to, and you
have the right thing in his shoe to help protect him,
why wouldn't he do it?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, that's that to me is the key. If the
training staff were saying you can play, but you can't
get stepped on, well, then I think twice about it,
Like if he gets stepped on and it completely resets
his his recovery. And now you're talking about this lingering
into the offseason, which then lingers into another weird transition
(25:37):
where you don't get a normal offseason for Joe Burrow.
That's a different story when you're talking about a guy
that's coming back as early as he did. Austin, I
was with you and this injury happened. I didn't think
we'd see him the rest of the year.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
No, I confidently said, no chance.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
And if so, I'm thinking, like, Okay, Miami run out
the last three games. You got to get some reps. Anyway,
he has shattered that. I am trusting training staff. And
again the scenarios you described, the calf and the golf
cart ride. One could argue the Bengals needed to do
more for Joe Burrow to say we get it, but
(26:11):
you're not doing it. That's what I want on this situation.
If he's good, and you, as a training staff are
confident that he's good, then go play.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I also don't think anybody in life or in football
should get into the habit of doing everything out of
an abundance of fear. Yes, it's possible that he gets
re injured. It's possible that every single player that plays
Sunday gets injured. That's the nature of the National Football
League and I've outlined it before. Burrow's injuries most of
(26:45):
the time have just been unlucky. It's not been you know,
stuff that you would consider to be injury prone injuries
is foot got stuck in the turf, the play and
how Jamar Chase didn't win at the line of scrimmage,
stuff that really has nothing to do with whether or
not a player is injury prone. But yes, he's been
(27:08):
injured more than the average player, But I don't think
it's wise to operate out of fear. Now you could say, okay, well,
the Bengals need to lose some games to get a
better draft pick. I would hear you, and dear god,
I've seen this defense. I don't know if Joe playing
is going to matter that much, but he wants to play,
(27:30):
He's healthy enough to play, he's being paid to play.
Why not play?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
There's also this and we'll get a break in. There's
also this at at the very core of this. If
Joe Burrow were at all limited Austin and oh, by
the way, you don't have Jamar Chase, wouldn't you think
that would be reason to push it off for one
more week? He's got a field darn good to be like, yeah,
I'm good to go even without Jamar Chase out there.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Well, I would push back and say, what if that
accelerated the timeline in his mind? Oh crap, we don't
have Jamar. That really got to get out there.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I just I don't know if you want to risk,
if you're unsure, you're gonna hold onto the ball a
little bit longer. When Chase isn't out there because now
the defense is able to shift to that. Now t
Higgins gets all the attention. Your other guy's got to
win one on one matchups. I think there is an
inherent risk of doing it without Jamar Chase, and I
think the idea that he's still willing to do that,
(28:21):
and if so, again this we can have practice today Austin,
and it could be Joe Flacco took the reps and
Joe Burrow was limited and we're right back to this
and then we're talking about Thanksgiving and can Joe play
because you make the point as well, do you want
him to play Sunday and then have a quick turnaround
and play Thursday night. That's all warranted. We'll get more
information today, but this is us doing what we have
(28:43):
with the information we've been given to this point.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
And I do think it's noteworthy that the tone and
the voice of Zach Taylor, we have listened to hours
of this guy talk, he never sounds like that, almost
nesting to him Sunday Monday and wind sounds like that.
Now they haven't been winning a lot, and he wasn't
talking directly after a loss, so that probably has something
to do with it, But yeah, I mean it's just
(29:11):
I have no problem with that. I think that one
of the questions needs to be answered too, is is
Joe Burrow at whatever percentage he is? Yeah, because I
think it's probably unfair to think he's one hundred percent.
He might be looking like it and acting like that,
but still you're coming off of a surgery that was eight,
(29:32):
nine weeks ago, whatever it was. So let's say he's
eighty five percent. Is Joe Burrow at eighty five percent
a better player and a better chance to win than
either of the following two options, Jake Browning at one
hundred percent or Joe Flacco at let's say seventy five
percent with his shoulder.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
As long as that eighty five percent doesn't run the
risk of going back to.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Zero percent, Well it does with every player.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
But see so in my personal experience, I played less
than one hundred percent, but I was given the guarantee.
I was given the understanding you could get hurt, but
it's not going to be it's not going to be
worse than what it is right now. Like if you're like,
it would have been different for me if it was like, hey,
if you take a hit, and you fall this way,
(30:21):
you're going to be reset back to zero it was.
It might hurt, but you're not going to do any
more damage to it, right, And so for me, I'm like, Okay,
I'm eighty percent, but I'm playing because nothing else is
going to happen.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Would the people that have pause about this be more
concerned about a re injury of the toe or a
another injury?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Well, see, that's that's the thing, because I feel like
that you had gone through this vigorous rehab process. Have
you put so much focus on the toe that now
you're going to run the risk of a calf injury?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Well, you know, last time Joe talked, he said he's
been lifting for weeks, right, and they've been kind of
doing still doing doing all the upper body stuff. And
you know, that's that's a question we don't really know
the answer to, honestly because we're not in the room,
but because it feels like to me, the hesitation has
been more about he's just gonna get hurt again, yeah,
(31:08):
and not about oh, he's going to reinjure the tow.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah. So's what's interesting here. I don't know that there's
a difference, but yeah, I mean, it's all fair and
it's stuff again. We can see how today plays out.
Maybe tomorrow's a different conversation. But it's just interesting that
on a day where we're talking about Joe Burrow playing
through injury, you're coming back from injury. Nick Kral made
some interesting comments about Elie Da La Cruz and Bump
(31:31):
bum By. Oh my, do we need to discuss that
as well? We'll do so next On ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station. Thanks to sky Linchiley, you've.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Been listening to Football in the NATI on ESPN fifteen thirty,
the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Your favorite neighborhood spots run on score.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
This is Dave Laflock and you're listening to the Home
of the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Murder Bootshin Kobe seven point two, Paul.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Fake into Kobe checked Byoftia, down to five, down to four,
game on the line. Right here, he takes Murray, he
ducks Utter, boots.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
For the wind By Fin has done it again.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Put some respects. Oh fuci made's name bag Bag Bag Lake,
game Killer?
Speaker 2 (32:24):
What's coming back to Chicago? What's coming back home? But
Carneac Bulls do it again. Well, y'all gonna put some
respect on Fochie Maine's names.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Watch this right here, the run, the little misdirection made
three point basket.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Here it is right here. Boji said, what's the respect
of my name? Get it out the neck?
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Bang bang bye bang bang by.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Good played by Kobe White. Oh, that's that's deep. Three
point that's that's over. This is a rap, Chicago. It's
a rap. Oh drive home safely bed. That is so good.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Oh, Stacy King is the absolute best. Get it out
the net, so flipping good man.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Get it out the net. I love his excitement. And then,
like in the most callboys, a great play by Kobe.
It was.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
It was ridiculous played by Kobe.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
But like in the excitement, he could have been like,
what a play He's like, great play by Kobe.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Chicago. That was the call of the Chicago Sports Network.
Stacey King, you heard there is the Chicago Bulls their
second buzzer beater, victory of the year. Second buzzer beater
by Vucci Man.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Vucci Man, so good man. That's our call of the day,
brought to you by our friends of wind Schulers. Thanks
to our friends of Win Schulers. Their four delicious cheese
spreads pair well with anything for the holiday season.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
I think I saw he's like vooches is passed, like
Ben Gordon on the Bulls All Time list or something,
which is kind of hard to believe. Focx Ben Gordon
probably beating somebody up at an airport right now.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Now you want to talk about hard to believe, You
want to talk about hard to believe. There were many
folks that watched all season for the Cincinnati Reds and
they probably thought, man, something just looks off with Ellie.
Speaker 7 (34:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Defense was a problem. He wasn't hitting for power, wasn't
stealing a ton of bases. It just the electricity wasn't there.
You know, a slow ground out what it would happen,
And I'm like, oh, he's gonna beat that out and
he'd get thrown out by two or three steps. Just
things we had seen from Ellie and it just didn't
seem right. But the season went and they finished up
(34:36):
and Ellie played, and you know he wanted to make
the point, wants to play one sixty two, wants to
be the shortstop, wants to do all this, and you
kind of just thought Okay, maybe you know he he
was dealing with some stuff. He's going through some hard time,
like just an offseason. It's off season, and the season
ended and you didn't really hear anything, so you kind
of just put it to bed. And then yesterday we're
(34:58):
enthralled with everything going on with Joe burn and then
Nick Krawl steps up on the Red's hot stove and
has this to say about one Ellie de la Cruz.
Speaker 7 (35:10):
So, if you look at his year last year, and
I think a lot of people don't know this, at
the end of the year, towards the end of July,
he was dealing with a partial torn quad and he
has been rehabbing. He's at the ballpark. He was at
the ballpark today. He's been rehabbing over the last this
whole offseason. To his credit, he played every day. He
(35:32):
tried to grind through it. He tried to play through it.
If you look at his defensive numbers, he made twelve
airs through roughly towards the end of July when he
got hurt, and then he made fourteen from the end
of July on. He's trying to play through it. He
wasn't able to do it as successful as possible. I
think he had a stretch of games where he had
nineteen homers and he didn't hit one until some point
(35:54):
in September. That's going to affect him. That's gonna affect
everything he does. But to his credit, he was trying
to play every single day through it. He tried to
grind through it, and to the detriment of himself, he
didn't play up to where he was. But a large
part of that is because he's trying to play through
the injury. So I do think that you look at
(36:15):
where he was up until that point where he got hurt,
and he was definitely better defensively.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
It's just he.
Speaker 7 (36:23):
He didn't finish the way he started.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
This infuriates me. This eats away at me because here
we are talking about for Joe Burrow and the organization
having his best interest in mind, and there are a
couple things here he went on to talk about, you know,
he's still rehabbing this, which is also worrisome because the
scene has been over for some time and he's still rehabbing.
The injury is still not one hundred percent. But here's
(36:46):
what infuriates me. Austin is not only to say that
Ellie was dealing with that injury. But to go on
and then almost back up that Ellie's bad play was
due to the injury. He made all the airs, or
made a majority of the airs because because of the injury.
He wasn't hitting for power because of the injury. So
here's my issue. Your star player is trying to play hurt.
(37:09):
Kudos to him for wanting to be out there every day,
but while being out there, this would be like the
equivalent Austin of Joe Burrow going out there and playing
Sunday and taking like nine sacks and throwing three picks
because he's he's he's not one hundred percent, you know
what I mean. But instead Nick Krawl just says kudos
(37:29):
to him for playing through it when he went through
this stretch of a home run law and he went
through this stretch of making all these airs that are
directly correlated to him being injured, and no one inside
this organization sat Ellie de la Cruz down and said,
you've got to sit down for a while. You've got
to take a seat. You can't you can't play every day.
(37:51):
We got to get you healthy. It's not worth it.
At this point, there was a point, they dropped him
in the order.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Again.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
We were enraged all season one. Why is Ellie playing
every day? Why is he batting third? He's not good
in the field right now, he's not hitting home runs.
And here goes Nick Crawl to say, well, the reason
he was doing that because he was playing injured. Someone
has to have the back of your players within the
organization to say, I respect the heck out of what
you're trying to do, but it ain't working.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Instead, we got Terry Francona saying, oh, he's got a leg. Yep,
that was the explanation. If you remember back in late July,
early August, Terry Francona was like, he's dealing with some stuff.
He's got a leg. That was the most that we got.
It's just it was irresponsible, I think, by the ball club,
by the manager, by the president of baseball operations, by
(38:43):
the ownership group, by everybody. Here's our best player dealing
with a semi serious injury and it's causing him to
perform poorly, which ultimately is hurting the baseball team. Let's
consider pivoting on our plan. Just because I say I
want to do something at work doesn't mean I get
(39:04):
to do it right. Like perfect example, training camp this
past year. I really wanted to work on those training
camp shows. I wanted to be a part of that,
and I asked to be, but I was told no.
Unfortunate for me. But I don't get all that. I
don't get what I want all the time. Elie de
la Cruz wants to play one hundred and sixty two games, right, well,
(39:25):
too bad, you're hurt. You're not helping the team. You've
got to sit down.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Just because a star player says he wants to do
something doesn't mean he gets to do it. And by
the way, you can apply that same logic to Joe Burrow.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
That's what I mean.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
The Bengals can say, no, man, we're not ready, it's
not the right time.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Or he can go out there on Sunday and play
poorly in the Bengals say, man, it's just in word,
We're gonna set your back down.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Correct, like that's it's okay to do that. And in
that sense, you're putting the baseball team ahead of the player,
which is what it should always be.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Who's to say they couldn't have sat him down for
two weeks and come back and all of a sudden
he's better in the field and at the play. Yeah,
and then you get more out of him. You hurt
the team exactly, and you hurt the interest of your
best player.
Speaker 7 (40:12):
Right.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
It is irresponsible from the program. That is infuriating to
me from Nick Krall.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
And I listen, I'm sure Ellie is not innocent in this.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
No, but that's not Ellie's job. Elle's job is to
want to play, true.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
It's just it's further proof I just don't have any
faith in this organization. And let's let's go back to
the conversation we had earlier this week about Hunter Green.
Hunter Green kind of doing his own thing, his own
timeline and getting himself ready and getting himself back. Now,
he was criticized for that, and I don't know that
that went over all that well internally, But there is
(40:49):
a reason there's a distrust between a player and the organization.
This could be an example of that, like sometimes you
got to protect someone from himself. It's just it's it's
really upsetting to hear that, and that dude, that dude
(41:12):
had a lot going on last year.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
And I understand that baseball is probably a good way
for him to escape, and that's fair. But also, if
he has ten days on the injured list yep, and
he's still around his team and he's still in the
dugout and he's getting treatment and all of that, is
that really going to change things all that much? Correct,
(41:35):
Because in that stretching games, he wasn't winning games for him.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
So there was a clip that I saw because one
of my buddies reposted it and it was a Marcus
Freeman when he was an assistant coach at Purdue. Yeah,
and the clip is Marcus Freeman and he says this,
I'm not here to be your friend. I'm here to
push you. I'm here to challenge you, and I'm here
to help you be successful. That's the job. That's the standard.
(42:06):
I'm a coach that needs to be applied to this
situation with the reds Ellie. I love you, I want
to be your friend, but more importantly, I'm here to
make sure that you're successful and I have your best
interest in mind. You got to trust me on this one.
You're not helping us right now, you're not helping yourself.
(42:28):
You got to sit down. I'm also that's the job
of that's the job of a team. I'm surprised that
this happened from Terry Francone. Of course, if David Bell
had done this, I don't know that I would have
been that surprised. Players coach just you know, more of
that type of personality. But Francona, he's brought in for
(42:48):
this type of stuff, for the tough love in the
development of a young player. And you know, to me,
I think that also from a player's perspective, you could
answer this better than me. Almost shows seeds of distrust
in the sense of you're not doing what's best for
us to win.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Yep, you think Ellie's teammates were out there watching him
and thinking, this, dude gives us the best chance to win.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
What's hurt me, what worries me is the situation of, man,
if we sit Ellie for two weeks, so what's that
mean for people coming to the games? You know, I've
heard this with Joe Burrow too, and it's like that
if that's ever a thought, then we're in a completely
different stratosphere. There are people out there, people I've talked
to today that believe the whole Joe Burrow thing is
(43:37):
a ruse to get people to buy tickets to the
game on Sunday. How would it affect the Reds if
Ellie were to be out for three weeks?
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I mean that would be less people going to the games. Sure,
who cares? Your job is to make sure that your
player's taking care of And who's to say that a
two or three week rest period for Ellie Daily Cruiz
wouldn't have had him come back on a healthy tear
that carried this team to the playoffs and more. We
don't know that. All we know is the stretch Ellie
(44:05):
went on without hitting a home run, without stealing bases,
with making a ton of airs because he was compromised.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
I really hope that that's not a conversation that's at
I'm you and me, both you and me both regarding
ticket sales.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yep, all right, let's do this. Let's take a break,
let's come back. We'll finish up our number one. We've
got John Sheeran eight of E Sports. We'll talk more
about Joe Burrow and the Cincinnati Bengals talkbacks. We've got
Kyle Schwarber audio we'll get to as we go this
afternoon as well. We got a ton of time left.
Stick with us on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station
thanks to Skyline Chili school my goodness to Angel Ridge
(44:50):
from Jeff Henry on a Thursday afternoon. It just hits
a little bit differently. Happy to have you along since
he three to sixty thanks to Skyline Chili on esp
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Hopefully Jeff sometime in twenty
twenty six can get us that new album and we
can change that out for one of his new songs.
We'll wait and see. I know Jeff is listening, so
(45:12):
shout out to him. Shout out to you for being
along with this as well. We've got two hours still
to go. John Sheeran is gonna kick things off in
our number two from eight. His is E Sports covering
the Cincinnati Bengals. We've talked Bengals and Burrow, We've talked
Red's and Ellie. We've got to talk more on the
Cincinnati Bengals and the New England Patriots when we return
our number two next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports
(45:34):
Station until u c K.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
Wise Cincinnati, make us the number one pre set on
your car radio and on the free New and Improved
iHeartRadio app free never sounded so good ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
More than a few of our patients have talked
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.