November 25, 2025 • 43 mins
Austin talks about why the Bengals should or shouldn't play Joe Burrow, takes your calls, chats about the Reds, and more on ESPN 1530!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ike sincey three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in
part by Skyline Chili. Stop by Skyline Chili for a
three way or cheese cony today. Feeling good, It's Skyline time.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hi, Hello and welcome in two Tony Pikes since e
three sixty here on ESPN fifteen thirty. I am not
Tony Pike. My name is Austin Elmore. The big fella
is out today. He's feeling a little bit under the weather,
and I don't blame him. You know, the voice. He
was struggling to finish things up after doing six hours
(00:41):
of radio yesterday. He of course called the UC game
with Dan Hord out in the cold over the weekend,
had the Holy Grail on Sunday morning for pregame sports talk.
So his voice definitely needs a rest. And we'd like
to make fun of Tony and call him part time Pike.
But I've had this, Moe has had this. It's kind
of gone around between the three of us here at
(01:03):
the radio station and Tony feeling a little under the
weather today. So hopefully everything goes well for him today
and he's able to come back tomorrow. Tomorrow will be
our last show of the week. We'll have a carefully
curated edition of Sincy three to sixty that will air
on Thanksgiving Day and we'll try to keep that as
topical as possible ahead of Bengals Ravens MO. We'll have
(01:25):
pregame sports talk ahead of Bengals Ravens on Thanksgiving. Looking
forward to that, and Tony and myself are off on Friday.
Back to the regularly scheduled programming on Monday, typical Tuesday show. Today,
we'll talk to joe Daniman at one pm from Fox nineteen.
He of course covering the Bengals. He was at Saint
(01:48):
x Elder over the weekend. I want to ask him
a little bit about that environment and so much more.
Always looking forward to our conversations with Joey D. Mo
Egger will join us hopefully at the end of the show.
Into the show is going to be a little bit
funky today. Why because Joe Burrow is going to speak
with the media now. Earlier this week it was sent
out the media schedule and who's supposed to talk and
(02:13):
win and the other day it said Bengals QB at
two forty five on Tuesday, and then yesterday that was
updated to Bengals QB Joe Burrow at two forty five
on Tuesday. So Joe is going to talk at two
forty five. Jamar Chase, who is back in the building,
is going to talk at three o'clock. MO and I
(02:34):
have discussed we're going to air both those press conferences.
Obviously Jamar coming off of his suspension, and Joe and
Jamar in their history in Baltimore, especially on Thursday night
games and big games, and this, if you look at
it through the perspective of the entirety of the season,
is a relatively big game and obviously means a lot
(02:56):
to Joe Burrow since he is going to be coming
back in and almost certainly starting this game on Thursday night.
Phone lines are open five one, three, seven, four nine,
fifteen thirty. You can also tweet it me at Audi Elmore.
That's a U T Y E L M O R.
In addition to hearing from Joe Burrow and Joe Danoman
(03:17):
and perhaps even Moegger, we'll do our college basketball rewind.
We'll talk or we won't talk, but we'll hear from
what Richard Patino had to say. Their big win over
the weekend. We had to go all football yesterday. Didn't
get a chance to talk about that. Wes Miller in
his opening statement after Cincinnati got a ninety four sixty
(03:38):
seven win over n JI T last night at Fifth
Third Arena, and Darren Hornon, the head coach of the
NKU Norse NKU was trailing e KU by two at
halftime last night, but they came back to win eighty
two seventy one. You'll hear from him as well. And
I have a few snippets from Zach Taylor's Prescot conference
(04:00):
yesterday talking about Joe Burrow, talking about his decision on
fourth and one, and also talking about Trey Hendrickson. And
we'll get into a little bit of Trey Hendrickson because
I just think that that situation is once again going
to be one of the biggest roadblocks, one of the
biggest obstacles, one of the biggest and most important pieces
(04:23):
of the Bengals offseason. I am exhausted by the thought
of that that once again Trey Hendrickson and dealing with
him is going to be a huge part of the
off season. But I do think it is, and I
think the actions that are being taken now by either
the Bengals or Trey hendrickson, whichever side you want to
look at. Are We're going to be revisiting those as
(04:47):
the off season goes along. So let's start with the
story of the week. The story of the season really
has been the absence of Joe Burrow and now what
appears to be his return. I have no reason to
believe he's not going to return. Based off of what
Zach said yesterday, based off of Joe's post on his
(05:08):
Instagram story yesterday, all indications are that Joe Burrow is
going to start on Thursday night in Baltimore, and Bengals
fans appear split on this. I've seen a myriad of
poll questions asking fans do you want him to start?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yes or no?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I think even here at the radio station, we're split
in our opinions. I know Moe has said he would
tell Joe Burrow see you next year. I know Tony
and myself have said he's the best player, he's healthy,
there's six games to go, why not play the man.
I've seen differing opinions all over the place, and I
(05:49):
truthfully want to hear from you, and I want to
hear your reasons why or why not that you want
Joe Burrow to play or not play this season, And
I think I think it kind of comes down to,
like what do you value more? And I do think
by the way that the Trey Henderson thing kind of
(06:09):
plays a role in this that we can maybe get
into the weeds on a little bit later on. But
do you value having a high draft pick? Do you
value the I guess that do you value the draft
pick and the losing that comes with that more than
(06:32):
you value trying to win as many games as possible
and seeing what this team is supposed to look like
with its star quarterback. So obviously T Higgins is not
going to be out there, and T may not play
the rest of the season. You just never know what
the concussion like that, and it's that's one of those
(06:52):
situations where if T has got a concussion and it
was that serious, then maybe there's no reason for him
to play the rest of the considering his injury history,
or maybe it's you know, you do want to get
him back out there when he's fully healthy because you
want to see what everything is supposed to look like altogether.
(07:13):
The offense for the most part has been relatively healthy.
Mike Gasiki is back. I think most people are thrilled
with the development of the offensive line, especially in the
run game, and you want to see offensively what it's
supposed to look like when Burrow is healthy, and we're
going to see that for the most part Thursday night.
Now Higgins isn't going to be out there. But you
(07:35):
have additional opportunities to evaluate Mitchell Tinsley, to evaluate andre
yoshivash To, perhaps if you're interested, evaluate Jermaine Burton, maybe
even if you want to keep Noah Fan around next
year or pursue him. You are going to have to
address the left tackle spot, I think eventually, the backup
(07:56):
tight end spot. Obviously the running backs and the depth
there Toaz Brooks is not going to play. There is
this weird mix of you want to win because you
are alive and because you have a standard that you
want to uphold, but also you know that you have
to evaluate what you have so that you have a
(08:16):
clear path forward and a plan on how to fix
it in the offseason. And the question I would have
is isn't it possible to do both? Can't you do both?
Can't you see what this team looks like with Joe
Burrow and what it's supposed to look like, and also
say these are the things we need to fix. And
(08:39):
if you don't know by now through the first fifteen games,
or through the first twelve games, if you don't know
what the problems are and what needs to be fixed
with or without Joe Burrow, then where have you been.
I don't know that anything over the last six games
is going to change your opinion or your evaluation of
(09:02):
what you have seen up until this point, nor should it.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
I had the conversation yesterday.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
You cannot allow a couple of wins or a couple
of nice plays to be the reasoning for inaction in
the offseason. I think it has been embarrassing enough and
enlightening enough watching through these first few games, first twelve games,
what is their record?
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Three and eight?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
First eleven games? You know what the issues are and
what needs to be addressed. I don't think the last
five games, six games are going to change any of that,
so you might as well get a full look at
your team. I think your answer your questions have been
answered in the backup quarterback position. I think you know
(09:50):
what's gonna happen there. I think your questions have been
answered about the safety position, and I would love to
see some more Dejon Anthony. You can put your best
players on the field and try to win, and also
be in evaluation mode and take the knowledge that you've
learned up until this point so you know what it
(10:11):
looks like without the ultimate equalizer in Joe Burrow, and
still use that information to guide your decision making in
the offseason. The other reason I think it's important for
Burrow to be there is because I think he raises
the standard of everybody in the organization. I think he
(10:33):
raises the standard of the offensive line, of the run game,
of the receivers, of special teams, of the coaches, of
the ownership group, of everybody. I think he is the standard.
And this mentality, this desire to push and to come
back and to try to win and to put the
(10:53):
team on his shoulders, and this burning, undying passion for
winning and greatness, is the rising tide that lifts all
boats for this organization. Let us not forget. He is
the face of the franchise. He is the reason you
tune in. He is the jersey that you buy. His
(11:14):
face is everywhere all over this city, and for good reason.
When healthy, I think he's the best, if not the
second or third best quarterback in this league. And yes,
injuries have been a part of his story, but he
is the rising tide that lifts all boats in this organization.
He is the future. He is what you build around.
(11:38):
And I know that the coaches and the staff, they
don't look around thinking, all right, we're good now that
Joe's back, it doesn't matter what happens will be okay. No,
they're thinking, we need to win some damn games to
prove that this isn't all our fault, to prove that
maybe it is Duke Tobin and the bad players that
were put on the defense and not just the coaches.
(12:01):
They feel the heat, and they should feel the heat
because it's been embarrassing and they have something to prove
as well. And as much as I love and appreciate
Joe Flacco, and we'll get into that, you know, just
a little bit, there are still a difference between him
and Joe Burrow, especially in the way they play, but
(12:21):
I think also in the way that they lead, and
I think the importance of that on the rest of
the football team is not something you can place a
direct value on. I think the more you see these
young players, these young guys get a chance to play
with Joe Burrow and know what things are like when
Joe is around, and what is expected and the standard
(12:44):
and how you approach every single game, at every single rep,
all of that, I think that's important. I think going
up against him every day in practice is important. I
think that can have a trickle down effect on making
these young players better and play a role in their development.
So I want Joe Burrow around, whether that's in the
(13:06):
film room, on the practice field, in the weight room,
in team meetings, on the sideline, or most importantly, on
the field. And the other reason is I simply do
not believe that you should live your life in fear
of getting hurt. Every player in the National Football League
(13:27):
takes a humongous risk every time they step on the field.
They know that they signed up for that. Few know
that better than Joe Burrow. It is a major, major risk.
We all know it. I don't think you should operate
with the under the assumption that you're going to get
(13:50):
hurt again, or out of fear that injury is going
to crop up again. I've outlined the injuries in the past.
Most of them are fluky, most of them are bad luck.
Most of them are not Joe Burrow's fault. Some of
them are the fault of the players in front of him,
but mostly not his fault. Yes, he's got the injury
(14:12):
prone label, and I understand why, but I don't know
that that label tells the entire story. And if you're
like me and you believe and you want this organization
to come up with a standard and uphold that standard
and be always an aggressive pursuit of a championship, you
(14:33):
need that guy standing in front leading everybody else in
that direction. And that's who Joe Burrow is. And you
cannot operate out of fear because if you do that
as a football team and as an organization, what does
that do to the rest of the team, What does
that do to the fans? That's just not a way
(14:53):
you should look at things. But it does come back
to the point, which is what's more valuable For an
organization that has proven it does not have the ability
to draft outside the top fifteen picks and has missed
on pick after pick after pick after pick in the
last several drafts, they need all the help they can get,
(15:16):
and lord knows, when they're picking one hundred and fifty
days from right now, when the NFL Draft is happening,
they're gonna need all the help they can get in
the further up in the draft order, the higher the
odds are that they're going to get a player that
comes in and has an immediate impact. I agree with
all that, and I think that that is a difficult
(15:37):
place to be to balance the desire for winning and
building on what you've built to this point, and also
understanding that the shortcomings of the organization need to be
addressed and they are not fully equipped to do that
because of the way they do business, and that in
and of itself, you almost want them to lose more
(15:57):
so that they can benefit by the system. But at
the same time, it will be used as an excuse,
it will be used as a way to criticize the
organization that the only way they get good players is
because they sucked bad enough to get those picks. I
don't want to be that type of person. I don't
(16:18):
want to be that type of fan. I firmly believe
that if you have your franchise quarterback and you have
your franchise wide receiver. Then you shouldn't be playing the
lottery game. You couldn't you shouldn't be playing the draft game.
You shouldn't be tanking for anything at any point. That's
my biggest issue. I don't believe in that. I want
(16:41):
to win all the time. Joe Burrow wants to win
all the time, So try to meet that standard as
best you can. By the way, there's been some positive
signs on defense, a very small sample size, not anything
that erases the shortcomings of the past, but there have
been some positive signs on defense. So there's still a
(17:07):
lot to learn about this team. Not that it should all,
you know, the final five games, not that that should
mean everything when you go into the offseason, but there's
still a lot to learn. There's still snaps that need
to be had by young players, there's still film that
needs to be watched. I don't know that you should
treat this as a season that's completely dead and completely
(17:29):
over and from there, the perspective of their chances in
the playoffs, I get it's probably not much there, but
that doesn't mean you can't still get something out of
this and get something out of winning. I think that's
still possible, and we can worry about the draft and
(17:50):
the prospects and those players later because a lot changes
between Thanksgiving and the end of April when the draft happens.
Take a break, we'll come back. This is Tony Pikes
since he three to sixty on the Home of the Bengals,
ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Hey, it's ma legger. Join me this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
I'm doing the show from Oakley Greens in Oakley today
starting at three oh five on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
This is Football in the NATI, brought to you by
Hey during Window Company on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official
home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Welcome back in Tony Pikes since e three sixty. I'm
Austin Holmore, the big fella out today. Hope he's feeling better.
We'll talk to Tony hopefully again tomorrow ahead of our
Thanksgiving holiday. By the way, the plan for tomorrow is
to kind of do our Friday show on Wednesday, So
(18:52):
I think we're gonna do picks for the weekend. Great
Thanksgiving Day, Slate, Black Friday, the Black Friday Game is great.
I think there's good college football on Black Friday as well,
and Charlie Goldsmith from Baltimore. It's gonna join us tomorrow
as well. Looking forward to that. Joe Daniman coming up
about half an hour from right now. But this is
(19:14):
football in the Natty. We're gonna get to John and
Steve and Tim in just a second. Let me first
give you an update on the injury reports for both
the Bengals and the Ravens ahead of Thanksgiving night. Now,
neither team practice yesterday. These were estimations of practice participation
should either of them have practice. Now, the Bengals will
(19:35):
practice this evening. They have a night practice tonight. I
don't expect it to be very much, very light as
they continue to recover from the Patriots game. But had
they practiced yesterday, this would have been the report. Dejon
Anthony still on that twenty one day practice window, he
was listed as a full participant. Joe Burrow with the
(19:57):
toe injury listed as a full part anticipant. Flacco with
the right shoulder and with that finger that he injured
against the Patriots would have been listed as limited. Hendrickson
and Higgins both DNP samaj p Ryan would be listed
as full. Sounds like p Ryan is going to be
able to go on Thursday against the Ravens. Cam Sample
(20:19):
dealing with the oblique injury would be listed as limited,
and Marco Wilson a DNP due to that hamstring you
may have seen he got hurt in that game against
the Patriots. As for the Ravens, a bunch of dnps
and two limiteds. The most notable dnps were safety Kyle
Hamilton dealing with an ankle injury and quarterback Lamar Jackson
(20:41):
dealing with a toe injury. Now Lamar has not practiced,
He's kind of been on the same schedule as Joe
Flacco where he hasn't been practicing on Wednesdays, but he
has been on Thursdays. So we'll see what it updates
to today when the Ravens practice. But Lamar Jackson was
technically a DNP. How about defensive tackle Tavan Bryan, remember him,
(21:02):
He was a DNP with a knee injury. And wide
receiver Rashod Bakeman Rashad Bateman, he said limited with an ankle.
That is the injury report ahead of Bengals Ravens practice
later today. We'll give you updates tomorrow as well. In
the meantime, let's go to the phones five one, three, seven, four, nine,
(21:23):
fifteen thirty. If you want to call in and be
a part of the show, let's go to Steve in Montgomery. Hello, Steve,
what's up?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Hey, Austin, how are you doing, buddy?
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I'm all right, man, Just my.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Different perspective on the Joe Burrow should play or not,
And I'm operating under the same assumption that they are
not going to get new coaches. Whether I want that
or not, That's just what I'm operating under. People don't
understand that Joe Burrow played six meaningful quarters of football
so far this year.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
True, he didn't play again the.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Rest of this season, he will have gone two years
with a total of six quarters of meaningful football. People
don't understand what that means. Timing is just everything his
being defenses. He probably is scared to death of the
thought of playing six quorders of football over the course
(22:16):
of two years. I don't care what he looks like
when he comes back. I just hope he's rolling by
the end of the year. That, like you said, this
season's bagged anyways. But if I can touch one other
quick thing, sure, the defense I wanted to scream. In
the Steelers game, you let Captain check Down throw the
ball two yards and get fifteen yard completions.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Out of it.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
The entire game, you're screaming, get up, pressed, pressed, Why
are you playing off coverage? He's just gonna dink and dunk.
Speaker 5 (22:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
And then you play the Patriots and you play totally
different defense. Why why did they wait till they're eliminated.
It's almost like it's on purpose, and it drives me
freaking crazy.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, I hear you.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I mean the things that I saw from Al Golden,
especially at the line of scrimmage, I thought, where has
this been all year? Especially when it comes to blitzing
and using guys like Geno Stone in blitz coverage and
Jalen Davis. I'm just like, how are you? Why has
this not been happening more often? And Steve, thank you
for the phone call. I have a few thoughts on that. Defensively,
(23:22):
I don't know if it was something they figured out
during the bye week, and I don't know if they're
just terrified of DK Metcalf being a deep threat. I
don't think that there's anybody on that Patriot team that
you think is a deep deep threat Stefan Diggs isn't
Matt Collins isn't. Like that's just not who they are,
And maybe they're trying to confuse Drake May a little bit.
(23:42):
But I agree with you, it was way too much
off coverage and allowing space for the Steelers to operate
in that offense to operate. Now, Pittsburgh doesn't usually work
the middle of the field, and it felt like the Bengals,
you know, didn't do a good enough job of kind
of daring them into the middle of the field. But
you know, that game's neither here nor there. At this point,
(24:04):
you started to see trends at least in the right direction.
When it comes to tackling. They were I believe the
lowest tackle miss tackle rate they've had in any game
happened this week against the Patriots. Barrett Carter missed zero tackles.
That is, in and of itself worthy of a banner.
(24:24):
Your point about Burrow, I agree with you, and I
do think that's something that's been overlooked a little bit,
is the idea that the guy just hasn't played that
much football.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
And if you it's important for.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Anyone to do what they do a lot and consistently
in the reps, and Joe's talked often about the reps. Now, Listen,
he could come out Thursday, he might be a little rusty.
We've seen him in the past in the first couple
games of his season. He doesn't look like the same guy.
He looks rusty, and he's often talked about how he
needs the reps. Now, maybe the idea that you start
(24:58):
with the Baltimore Raven essentially on Thanksgiving night in prime time,
that's enough to, you know, kind of unlock that Joe
Burrow that we've seen in the past. But you're right,
reps are important. I also don't think we should overreact
if the guy comes out and doesn't perform at the
level that maybe we saw him early on or at
least early in that Jacksonville game and all of last
(25:20):
year as well. Like it's it's not just hey, here's
Joe Burrow. He's gonna come in and throw for four
hundred and thirty yards and six touchdown. It's not gonna happen.
So I do think, you know, giving him a little
bit of grace is going to be important as far
as that's concerned.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
As well. Let's go to Tim in Dell High. What's up? Tim?
Speaker 6 (25:39):
Hey? First of all, I was just wanting to say, hey,
you know, if you took the bet, you were wanting
free Sunday. What does San asked all bet?
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (25:52):
Yeah, yeah, anyway, listen, Uh, I don't I don't care.
I mean the I understand why Jee wants to play,
because he needs the raps and he wants to play.
He's competitor. I just this season is done. I mean,
(26:14):
I want to see changes because I'm fraid they went out.
We're just gonna get false houts again and they won't
make no changes.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
That's that's what your fear is. Yeah, I want.
Speaker 6 (26:32):
Well, you know the last team seasons, well, we finished
strong as I was. Jae was healthy, but was Zach Taylor.
He he has to go. We got to make changes.
I had test play call.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Yeah, Tim, are you all right?
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Good?
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Just just checking? Thank you for the phone call.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, you know, I like the previous caller, said Steven
Montgomery said. I operate under the assumption that they're not
going to move on from Zach Taylor. I just don't
think that's going to happen unless the next six games
they get it destroyed and embarrassed. And it feels like
any progress they made the last two weeks goes back
(27:18):
in the opposite direction. I don't think some of the
decisions that Zach and his coaching staff have made this
year would have been made if they didn't think they
were safe. That's just the way I feel about that,
and so I also expect Mike Brown to be patient.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
I expect the ownership group to be patient.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I think they believe in Zach Taylor right, wrong or indifferent,
that's my guess onto how they view this situation. And
so if you operate under the assumption that the coaching
staff will not be adjusted, I think that is part
of this whole thing as well. How do they improve,
how do they get more out of the out of
their players, and how can they prove that they should
(28:09):
stick around or that there shouldn't be changes, or can
they develop? And that whole side of things I think
is really important. But I'm not operating under the assumption
that there's going to be wholesale changes. I would love
nothing more than for the Bengals to part ways with
Duke Tobin and to bring someone in from the outside
who might have a little bit more experience with the
intricacies of the salary cap and evaluation and scouting and
(28:35):
can kind of put together a system that can maybe
work considering the circumstances within the Bengals. I would love
for that to happen, but I don't expect it to happen.
I would love for them to hire Sean McVeagh. That's
not going to happen. So just operating with what I
think is the most likely scenario is the only thing
(28:56):
I really have to go off of. Let's go to Boston.
Let's talk to John. Hello, John Austin, how are you.
I'm hanging in there, man, how are you.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
We're doing okay, just getting ready for Thanksgiving. I wish
you and yours a happy Thanksgiving obviously, thank you absolutely.
First of all, when I think Steve two calls before
nailed it as far as the reps and playing, et cetera.
Because Joe's only played six quarters this season and he
doesn't play the rest of the year, he would have
played six quarters from the end of the twenty twenty
(29:26):
four seasons to the start of the twenty twenty six season.
That does no one any good. I mean, he talked
about it when he was at Ohio State when he
was at LSU with the Bengals reps, reps, reps. He
wants to get better every day. That's how you get
better in all of our jobs we do. The more
you host your show, the better you get. Just a
lot more reps make it a lot better. So that
is one component why I want to see him play.
(29:47):
The other thing is that you touched on the injuries.
Those injuries he had our fluke injuries, and they're like
car crash injuries. It's not like he showed up the
camp twenty pounds overweight and pull the hamstring.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
You know.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
The last injury, which I think only detailed the day
after the injury, he took the snap, tried to go
to Jamar Chase on a slant. The corner jumped the route.
It within one point three seconds of the snap. There
were three defenders cascading in his lower extremities. That toe
popped out. I don't know what he's supposed to do
other than what happened. You know, he's not a sideboard,
(30:19):
so obviously the injuries are concerned. But also let's not
forget if he finishes this season with six straight starts,
he will have made eighty four starts in six years.
It's not like he's missed eighty percent of the games.
I mean essentially misses three to four games a year,
which is not good. That's not good. It's about the
same rate as Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
It's not like he's.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
Out from you know, extending periods of time. It's just
when the injuries take place to be problematic. So I
think that's obviously a thing that gets oberrated. And my
final point is, I know people talk naturally and probably
in Cincinnati about the fact that you know this is
the roster you get when you pay your stars so
much money. Well, Joe Burrow, Chase Brown, Jamar Chase, and
(30:59):
t Biggans are their four offensive weapons. They make the
same amount of money as Jalen Hurts, Tae Kwon Barkley,
A J. Brown, and Devonte Smith. So pick those four
players from the Bengals off the roster, take the four
Eagles players out of the equation. How did Philadelphia build
a roster while paying the four guys the same amount
of money that Cincinnati pays him. They just draft a
(31:20):
lot better and they develop a lot better. So it
can be done. And as you've talked about several times,
they're what ten twelve million under the payroll right now
under the sas under the limit, so they can spend
more money. It's just it's it's such an easy excuse
to say, oh, paying a quarterback. Well, when they have
a quarterback like that, you pay him. You have a
receiver like that, you pay him. And it's it's just
(31:41):
all these false narratives that go out there, and I
think that I just want to see the guy play.
I mean, my favorite player, and I just think for
the next six weeks it's going to be blast to
see him play, makes the sport much more interesting, and
he's going to scare the hell out of people because
I know last week at this time, I was talking
to some people in Boston like, we don't want to
see him come out on Sunday, you know, we fear him.
(32:01):
And I still think if he plays, and if if
you watch Chase played last Sunday, they probably win that
game because the Patriots weren't very good and Cincinnati's defense
looked Okay.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 5 (32:13):
Let's enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, Johnny can be that simple thank you for the
phone call, And it really can be that simple. It
can be that simple as Hey, I want my favorite player,
my best player, to play. I like watching watching him
play football. I like him and seeing him and Jamar
Chase do cool things. I mean, how many players over
the course of the Bengals history would you do anything
to watch them play one more game? I think about
(32:37):
that with Corey Dillon. I think about that with Chad Johnson.
I was at Chad's last home game and and I
think he had like two catches for thirty five yards.
Like I would love I would do anything to watch
one more game with Chad Johnson playing. Listen, this stuff
goes quick. Man Like Burrow already in his sixth season
(32:58):
in the National Football League, Like, I don't want to
throw away any games. I don't want to just move
on now into the year. This year, Miles Garrett probably
going for the NFL record in sacks. I have no
interest in Joe Burrow playing that game. That's completely pointless.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
But like.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I still I want to see the best players play.
That's what's fun about being a football fan. Like it
can be that simple, Like how many great players have
the Bengals had over the course of their existence that
make you think, Man, I was a great player. I
wish I could watch them play one more time. I
(33:40):
wish I could see Ken Riley streaking down the sideline
on a pick six. I wish I could see Lamar
Parris return a punt. I wish I could see aj
Green go up over top of somebody in hall in
a touchdown. I wish I could see Chad Johnson shake
somebody at the top of a route and cross across
the field, beat a dude to the end zone and
have some crazy touchdown celebration.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I wish I could see vontees Berfect knock the snot
out of a Pittsburgh Steeler again. Those are the things
that you want, and sometimes it can be as simple
as I want to. I want to watch the best
players play football. Take a break, we'll be back. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
You've been listening to football in the Natty on ESPN
fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 7 (34:32):
Your front row seat to the fierces debates in sports
Moegger Today at three pm on ESPN fifteen thirty, block that.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Word for Dade a thamas now job top of the circle.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Didn't think about the three that time Risa Elliot, don't
God five on top of job, I just.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Play Marcreesta coming off in the Fresh coming off the
screen role player Tom just throwing it up, slimming it down.
Speaker 8 (34:58):
Good job.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Eight two bear sixty to thirteen left and the half.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
That was a call last night, Dan Horde Steve Logan
on seven hundred WLW Bearcats victorious ninety four sixty seven
over the n JI Highlanders. That's the New Jersey Institute
of Technology Bearcats five and one. And that call brought
to you by our friends at wind Schuler's Cheese Spreads. Listen,
(35:25):
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four tasty cheese spread options original, sharp, cheddar, Bacon, pepper jack.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
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By the way, don't forget go to Winshulers dot com
for some easy to follow recipes if you need something
to prepare for your party, your Thanksgiving, your get together
this weekend. A couple of other things going on in
sports a couple of former Cincinnati athletes. How about this
Cad York, the former Bengal kicker. You might remember he
(36:08):
stepped in in place of Evan McPherson last year. You know,
Cad York actually had the franchise record tied with McPherson
for the longest field goal until McPherson broke it this
past Sunday. It was fifty nine yards. Cade York and
Evan McPherson held that franchise record. Well, Cad York has
signed today with the New Orleans Saints. He was part
(36:29):
of a workout yesterday in New Orleans that featured former
Ravens kicker Justin Tucker Ollkad York has been signed by
the New Orleans Saints, and a former Red was traded
today from the Saint Louis Cardinals to the Boston Red Sox,
Sonny Gray traded to Boston. Boston in return gets a
(36:51):
couple of relief pitchers major league relief pitchers, including one
guy by the name of Richard Fitz Fi t T
I cannot wait for Ellie de la Cruz to hit
a home run off of Richard fits and then make
fun of him by saying Richard giving him fits. These
are the things to look forward to during the summer.
(37:13):
But Sonny Gray on the move today too. The Boston
Red Sox. Boston's gonna be an interesting team next year.
By the way, I think we're one hundred and twenty
two days away from Opening day, pitchers and catchers reporting.
In just a couple of months, there have been a
couple of trades across Major League Baseball, nothing crazy. I'm
(37:35):
really curious to see what the Reds do because they
do have some money to spend, if you believe what
Nick Crawl said in their idea of building this team
kind of along the same lines as last year. I
know that they avoided arbitration with Sam Mall and signed
him to a team friendly deal, and I think that's
(37:56):
one of the important parts of the offseason is getting
left handed pitch and bullpen pitching specifically, that I think
is going to be where most of the money is spent.
It's going to be on those bullpen arms. We've talked
about that extensively. I don't really expect them to do
much in terms of getting an offensive player. I think
(38:19):
that they fully believe in Chris Valaka. I think that
they fully believe in Chris Valaka's ability to turn people around,
and they are really giving him the reins to the
entire organization. Now, you may or may not agree with that.
I don't know that I agree with it. I'm pretty
sure I don't. But the Reds have been pretty open
(38:42):
about what they plan to do with this organization and
what the plan is under Nick Krawl, It's to spend
one hundred to one hundred and twenty million dollars. It's
to get young athletic middle infielders and outfielders and to
use their athleticism to sprinkle them around to different positions
(39:04):
and to just kind of continually keep that train rolling.
And Nick Krawl has said he wants to eliminate peaks
and valleys, which means they want to kind of be
about the same team every year. They don't want to
have these dips and they don't want to have these peaks.
You know, we don't want to win ninety seven games
a year. We'd rather win like eighty five every single year.
(39:25):
Like that's kind of what they're telling you, and that's
how they feel like they can win and how they
feel like is the only option. And on top of that,
they are a team that does not believe in hitting
home runs. They don't believe in hitting for power. They've
talked about how some of their more powerful players in
their system, including Sal Stewart, is working on losing weight
(39:46):
and becoming more athletic. Talked about that with Hector Rodriguez
as well, like, this is who the Reds are, this
is what they believe, this is how they're going to
approach it. Whether or not you agree with it, it's
the unfortunate reaction. And I think Nick Carl kind of
said something along the lines of you got in a
lot of ways draft and develop your pitching and at
(40:06):
times overpay for pitchers to get them to come to
Great American Ballpark because of the size of the park.
So he'll say that out of one side of his mouth,
and then on the other side of the mouth he'll say, well,
we're working on these guys losing some weight and getting
in shape so we can put the ball in play.
That is their philosophy, and because of that, they're not
going to make a run at Kyle Schwarber. They're not
(40:28):
going to make a run at anybody who hits a
lot of home runs. What I find most interesting is
is kind of going back to last season, Terry Francona
threw the brakes on when it comes to running the bases.
They weren't stealing bases, they weren't as aggressive on the
bass paths. And if you're not going to be a
team that hits extra base hits, that hits home runs,
(40:49):
if you're going to be a put the ball in
play and hit singles type of organization, which is what
I feel their organizational philosophy is, well, then you got
to be able to to steal some bases, You got
to be able to take that extra base. You got
to be willing to toe the line between reckless and
aggressive on the base path. And I hope that Terry
(41:12):
Francona does a better job with that this year, because
there was many things last year that I found myself
scratching my head at Francona's decision making and throwing the
brakes on. The run game was probably the biggest one,
because that's how they score runs, and repeatedly, over and
over and over and over and over and over again,
(41:33):
they were leaving understranded and they were scoring three or
fewer runs every night, and that was just a maddening
brand of baseball to watch, and I hope that they
make some serious, serious gains this year when it comes
to just working the counts and getting guys on base
and actually stealing bases so that it's a much more
(41:54):
fun product to watch. Did not enjoy that this past year.
All Right, we'll take a break. We'll come back, Joe
Dana ten minutes from now on the Home of the Bengals,
ESPN fifteen to thirty. Welcome back to Tony Pike since
three sixty, ESPN fifteen thirty. I'm Austin Elmore coming up
(42:16):
in about five minutes, Joe Daniman Fox nineteen. He will
talk Bengals with us and a little bit of everything else.
He was at say Nex Elder Friday night in what
looked to be an incredible atmosphere at pay Course Stadium.
I want to ask him a little bit about that.
Other news of the day, the semi finalists for the
(42:38):
twenty twenty six Pro Football Hall of Fame induction were announced.
One former Bengal, Willie Anderson, on the list. He joins
others like Drew Brees, Larry Fitzgerald, Torry Holt, Eli Manning, Reggie,
Wayne Jason Witten, who is not a Hall of Famer,
(42:58):
Rodney Harrison, Luke Keikley speaking of Saint X, Vince will
For Adam Vinterteri, Darren Williams, Terrell Suggs. You remember Tis
Sizzle playing with the Ravens all those years. A bunch
of finalists announced and our semi finalists announced. Willie, of course,
Big Willy Anderson was a finalist last year in the
Pro Football Hall of Fame. That is always announced on
(43:21):
the Saturday before the Super Bowl. Who is going in?
So looking forward to hearing about that and hoping the
best for Big Willie. All Right, we'll take a break,
we'll come back. We'll talk to Joey d next right
here on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 8 (43:38):
Kwise Cincinnati, make us the number one pre set on
your car radio and on the free, new and improved
iHeartRadio app. Free never sounded so good, ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
If you left
Ike sincey three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in
part by Skyline Chili. Stop by Skyline Chili for a
three way or cheese cony today. Feeling good, It's Skyline time.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hi, Hello and welcome in two Tony Pikes since e
three sixty here on ESPN fifteen thirty. I am not
Tony Pike. My name is Austin Elmore. The big fella
is out today. He's feeling a little bit under the weather,
and I don't blame him. You know, the voice. He
was struggling to finish things up after doing six hours
(00:41):
of radio yesterday. He of course called the UC game
with Dan Hord out in the cold over the weekend,
had the Holy Grail on Sunday morning for pregame sports talk.
So his voice definitely needs a rest. And we'd like
to make fun of Tony and call him part time Pike.
But I've had this, Moe has had this. It's kind
of gone around between the three of us here at
(01:03):
the radio station and Tony feeling a little under the
weather today. So hopefully everything goes well for him today
and he's able to come back tomorrow. Tomorrow will be
our last show of the week. We'll have a carefully
curated edition of Sincy three to sixty that will air
on Thanksgiving Day and we'll try to keep that as
topical as possible ahead of Bengals Ravens MO. We'll have
(01:25):
pregame sports talk ahead of Bengals Ravens on Thanksgiving. Looking
forward to that, and Tony and myself are off on Friday.
Back to the regularly scheduled programming on Monday, typical Tuesday show. Today,
we'll talk to joe Daniman at one pm from Fox nineteen.
He of course covering the Bengals. He was at Saint
(01:48):
x Elder over the weekend. I want to ask him
a little bit about that environment and so much more.
Always looking forward to our conversations with Joey D. Mo
Egger will join us hopefully at the end of the show.
Into the show is going to be a little bit
funky today. Why because Joe Burrow is going to speak
with the media now. Earlier this week it was sent
out the media schedule and who's supposed to talk and
(02:13):
win and the other day it said Bengals QB at
two forty five on Tuesday, and then yesterday that was
updated to Bengals QB Joe Burrow at two forty five
on Tuesday. So Joe is going to talk at two
forty five. Jamar Chase, who is back in the building,
is going to talk at three o'clock. MO and I
(02:34):
have discussed we're going to air both those press conferences.
Obviously Jamar coming off of his suspension, and Joe and
Jamar in their history in Baltimore, especially on Thursday night
games and big games, and this, if you look at
it through the perspective of the entirety of the season,
is a relatively big game and obviously means a lot
(02:56):
to Joe Burrow since he is going to be coming
back in and almost certainly starting this game on Thursday night.
Phone lines are open five one, three, seven, four nine,
fifteen thirty. You can also tweet it me at Audi Elmore.
That's a U T Y E L M O R.
In addition to hearing from Joe Burrow and Joe Danoman
(03:17):
and perhaps even Moegger, we'll do our college basketball rewind.
We'll talk or we won't talk, but we'll hear from
what Richard Patino had to say. Their big win over
the weekend. We had to go all football yesterday. Didn't
get a chance to talk about that. Wes Miller in
his opening statement after Cincinnati got a ninety four sixty
(03:38):
seven win over n JI T last night at Fifth
Third Arena, and Darren Hornon, the head coach of the
NKU Norse NKU was trailing e KU by two at
halftime last night, but they came back to win eighty
two seventy one. You'll hear from him as well. And
I have a few snippets from Zach Taylor's Prescot conference
(04:00):
yesterday talking about Joe Burrow, talking about his decision on
fourth and one, and also talking about Trey Hendrickson. And
we'll get into a little bit of Trey Hendrickson because
I just think that that situation is once again going
to be one of the biggest roadblocks, one of the
biggest obstacles, one of the biggest and most important pieces
(04:23):
of the Bengals offseason. I am exhausted by the thought
of that that once again Trey Hendrickson and dealing with
him is going to be a huge part of the
off season. But I do think it is, and I
think the actions that are being taken now by either
the Bengals or Trey hendrickson, whichever side you want to
look at. Are We're going to be revisiting those as
(04:47):
the off season goes along. So let's start with the
story of the week. The story of the season really
has been the absence of Joe Burrow and now what
appears to be his return. I have no reason to
believe he's not going to return. Based off of what
Zach said yesterday, based off of Joe's post on his
(05:08):
Instagram story yesterday, all indications are that Joe Burrow is
going to start on Thursday night in Baltimore, and Bengals
fans appear split on this. I've seen a myriad of
poll questions asking fans do you want him to start?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yes or no?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I think even here at the radio station, we're split
in our opinions. I know Moe has said he would
tell Joe Burrow see you next year. I know Tony
and myself have said he's the best player, he's healthy,
there's six games to go, why not play the man.
I've seen differing opinions all over the place, and I
(05:49):
truthfully want to hear from you, and I want to
hear your reasons why or why not that you want
Joe Burrow to play or not play this season, And
I think I think it kind of comes down to,
like what do you value more? And I do think
by the way that the Trey Henderson thing kind of
(06:09):
plays a role in this that we can maybe get
into the weeds on a little bit later on. But
do you value having a high draft pick? Do you
value the I guess that do you value the draft
pick and the losing that comes with that more than
(06:32):
you value trying to win as many games as possible
and seeing what this team is supposed to look like
with its star quarterback. So obviously T Higgins is not
going to be out there, and T may not play
the rest of the season. You just never know what
the concussion like that, and it's that's one of those
(06:52):
situations where if T has got a concussion and it
was that serious, then maybe there's no reason for him
to play the rest of the considering his injury history,
or maybe it's you know, you do want to get
him back out there when he's fully healthy because you
want to see what everything is supposed to look like altogether.
(07:13):
The offense for the most part has been relatively healthy.
Mike Gasiki is back. I think most people are thrilled
with the development of the offensive line, especially in the
run game, and you want to see offensively what it's
supposed to look like when Burrow is healthy, and we're
going to see that for the most part Thursday night.
Now Higgins isn't going to be out there. But you
(07:35):
have additional opportunities to evaluate Mitchell Tinsley, to evaluate andre
yoshivash To, perhaps if you're interested, evaluate Jermaine Burton, maybe
even if you want to keep Noah Fan around next
year or pursue him. You are going to have to
address the left tackle spot, I think eventually, the backup
(07:56):
tight end spot. Obviously the running backs and the depth
there Toaz Brooks is not going to play. There is
this weird mix of you want to win because you
are alive and because you have a standard that you
want to uphold, but also you know that you have
to evaluate what you have so that you have a
(08:16):
clear path forward and a plan on how to fix
it in the offseason. And the question I would have
is isn't it possible to do both? Can't you do both?
Can't you see what this team looks like with Joe
Burrow and what it's supposed to look like, and also
say these are the things we need to fix. And
(08:39):
if you don't know by now through the first fifteen games,
or through the first twelve games, if you don't know
what the problems are and what needs to be fixed
with or without Joe Burrow, then where have you been.
I don't know that anything over the last six games
is going to change your opinion or your evaluation of
(09:02):
what you have seen up until this point, nor should it.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
I had the conversation yesterday.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
You cannot allow a couple of wins or a couple
of nice plays to be the reasoning for inaction in
the offseason. I think it has been embarrassing enough and
enlightening enough watching through these first few games, first twelve games,
what is their record?
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Three and eight?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
First eleven games? You know what the issues are and
what needs to be addressed. I don't think the last
five games, six games are going to change any of that,
so you might as well get a full look at
your team. I think your answer your questions have been
answered in the backup quarterback position. I think you know
(09:50):
what's gonna happen there. I think your questions have been
answered about the safety position, and I would love to
see some more Dejon Anthony. You can put your best
players on the field and try to win, and also
be in evaluation mode and take the knowledge that you've
learned up until this point so you know what it
(10:11):
looks like without the ultimate equalizer in Joe Burrow, and
still use that information to guide your decision making in
the offseason. The other reason I think it's important for
Burrow to be there is because I think he raises
the standard of everybody in the organization. I think he
(10:33):
raises the standard of the offensive line, of the run game,
of the receivers, of special teams, of the coaches, of
the ownership group, of everybody. I think he is the standard.
And this mentality, this desire to push and to come
back and to try to win and to put the
(10:53):
team on his shoulders, and this burning, undying passion for
winning and greatness, is the rising tide that lifts all
boats for this organization. Let us not forget. He is
the face of the franchise. He is the reason you
tune in. He is the jersey that you buy. His
(11:14):
face is everywhere all over this city, and for good reason.
When healthy, I think he's the best, if not the
second or third best quarterback in this league. And yes,
injuries have been a part of his story, but he
is the rising tide that lifts all boats in this organization.
He is the future. He is what you build around.
(11:38):
And I know that the coaches and the staff, they
don't look around thinking, all right, we're good now that
Joe's back, it doesn't matter what happens will be okay. No,
they're thinking, we need to win some damn games to
prove that this isn't all our fault, to prove that
maybe it is Duke Tobin and the bad players that
were put on the defense and not just the coaches.
(12:01):
They feel the heat, and they should feel the heat
because it's been embarrassing and they have something to prove
as well. And as much as I love and appreciate
Joe Flacco, and we'll get into that, you know, just
a little bit, there are still a difference between him
and Joe Burrow, especially in the way they play, but
(12:21):
I think also in the way that they lead, and
I think the importance of that on the rest of
the football team is not something you can place a
direct value on. I think the more you see these
young players, these young guys get a chance to play
with Joe Burrow and know what things are like when
Joe is around, and what is expected and the standard
(12:44):
and how you approach every single game, at every single rep,
all of that, I think that's important. I think going
up against him every day in practice is important. I
think that can have a trickle down effect on making
these young players better and play a role in their development.
So I want Joe Burrow around, whether that's in the
(13:06):
film room, on the practice field, in the weight room,
in team meetings, on the sideline, or most importantly, on
the field. And the other reason is I simply do
not believe that you should live your life in fear
of getting hurt. Every player in the National Football League
(13:27):
takes a humongous risk every time they step on the field.
They know that they signed up for that. Few know
that better than Joe Burrow. It is a major, major risk.
We all know it. I don't think you should operate
with the under the assumption that you're going to get
(13:50):
hurt again, or out of fear that injury is going
to crop up again. I've outlined the injuries in the past.
Most of them are fluky, most of them are bad luck.
Most of them are not Joe Burrow's fault. Some of
them are the fault of the players in front of him,
but mostly not his fault. Yes, he's got the injury
(14:12):
prone label, and I understand why, but I don't know
that that label tells the entire story. And if you're
like me and you believe and you want this organization
to come up with a standard and uphold that standard
and be always an aggressive pursuit of a championship, you
(14:33):
need that guy standing in front leading everybody else in
that direction. And that's who Joe Burrow is. And you
cannot operate out of fear because if you do that
as a football team and as an organization, what does
that do to the rest of the team, What does
that do to the fans? That's just not a way
(14:53):
you should look at things. But it does come back
to the point, which is what's more valuable For an
organization that has proven it does not have the ability
to draft outside the top fifteen picks and has missed
on pick after pick after pick after pick in the
last several drafts, they need all the help they can get,
(15:16):
and lord knows, when they're picking one hundred and fifty
days from right now, when the NFL Draft is happening,
they're gonna need all the help they can get in
the further up in the draft order, the higher the
odds are that they're going to get a player that
comes in and has an immediate impact. I agree with
all that, and I think that that is a difficult
(15:37):
place to be to balance the desire for winning and
building on what you've built to this point, and also
understanding that the shortcomings of the organization need to be
addressed and they are not fully equipped to do that
because of the way they do business, and that in
and of itself, you almost want them to lose more
(15:57):
so that they can benefit by the system. But at
the same time, it will be used as an excuse,
it will be used as a way to criticize the
organization that the only way they get good players is
because they sucked bad enough to get those picks. I
don't want to be that type of person. I don't
(16:18):
want to be that type of fan. I firmly believe
that if you have your franchise quarterback and you have
your franchise wide receiver. Then you shouldn't be playing the
lottery game. You couldn't you shouldn't be playing the draft game.
You shouldn't be tanking for anything at any point. That's
my biggest issue. I don't believe in that. I want
(16:41):
to win all the time. Joe Burrow wants to win
all the time, So try to meet that standard as
best you can. By the way, there's been some positive
signs on defense, a very small sample size, not anything
that erases the shortcomings of the past, but there have
been some positive signs on defense. So there's still a
(17:07):
lot to learn about this team. Not that it should all,
you know, the final five games, not that that should
mean everything when you go into the offseason, but there's
still a lot to learn. There's still snaps that need
to be had by young players, there's still film that
needs to be watched. I don't know that you should
treat this as a season that's completely dead and completely
(17:29):
over and from there, the perspective of their chances in
the playoffs, I get it's probably not much there, but
that doesn't mean you can't still get something out of
this and get something out of winning. I think that's
still possible, and we can worry about the draft and
(17:50):
the prospects and those players later because a lot changes
between Thanksgiving and the end of April when the draft happens.
Take a break, we'll come back. This is Tony Pikes
since he three to sixty on the Home of the Bengals,
ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Hey, it's ma legger. Join me this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
I'm doing the show from Oakley Greens in Oakley today
starting at three oh five on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
This is Football in the NATI, brought to you by
Hey during Window Company on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official
home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Welcome back in Tony Pikes since e three sixty. I'm
Austin Holmore, the big fella out today. Hope he's feeling better.
We'll talk to Tony hopefully again tomorrow ahead of our
Thanksgiving holiday. By the way, the plan for tomorrow is
to kind of do our Friday show on Wednesday, So
(18:52):
I think we're gonna do picks for the weekend. Great
Thanksgiving Day, Slate, Black Friday, the Black Friday Game is great.
I think there's good college football on Black Friday as well,
and Charlie Goldsmith from Baltimore. It's gonna join us tomorrow
as well. Looking forward to that. Joe Daniman coming up
about half an hour from right now. But this is
(19:14):
football in the Natty. We're gonna get to John and
Steve and Tim in just a second. Let me first
give you an update on the injury reports for both
the Bengals and the Ravens ahead of Thanksgiving night. Now,
neither team practice yesterday. These were estimations of practice participation
should either of them have practice. Now, the Bengals will
(19:35):
practice this evening. They have a night practice tonight. I
don't expect it to be very much, very light as
they continue to recover from the Patriots game. But had
they practiced yesterday, this would have been the report. Dejon
Anthony still on that twenty one day practice window, he
was listed as a full participant. Joe Burrow with the
(19:57):
toe injury listed as a full part anticipant. Flacco with
the right shoulder and with that finger that he injured
against the Patriots would have been listed as limited. Hendrickson
and Higgins both DNP samaj p Ryan would be listed
as full. Sounds like p Ryan is going to be
able to go on Thursday against the Ravens. Cam Sample
(20:19):
dealing with the oblique injury would be listed as limited,
and Marco Wilson a DNP due to that hamstring you
may have seen he got hurt in that game against
the Patriots. As for the Ravens, a bunch of dnps
and two limiteds. The most notable dnps were safety Kyle
Hamilton dealing with an ankle injury and quarterback Lamar Jackson
(20:41):
dealing with a toe injury. Now Lamar has not practiced,
He's kind of been on the same schedule as Joe
Flacco where he hasn't been practicing on Wednesdays, but he
has been on Thursdays. So we'll see what it updates
to today when the Ravens practice. But Lamar Jackson was
technically a DNP. How about defensive tackle Tavan Bryan, remember him,
(21:02):
He was a DNP with a knee injury. And wide
receiver Rashod Bakeman Rashad Bateman, he said limited with an ankle.
That is the injury report ahead of Bengals Ravens practice
later today. We'll give you updates tomorrow as well. In
the meantime, let's go to the phones five one, three, seven, four, nine,
(21:23):
fifteen thirty. If you want to call in and be
a part of the show, let's go to Steve in Montgomery. Hello, Steve,
what's up?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Hey, Austin, how are you doing, buddy?
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I'm all right, man, Just my.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Different perspective on the Joe Burrow should play or not,
And I'm operating under the same assumption that they are
not going to get new coaches. Whether I want that
or not, That's just what I'm operating under. People don't
understand that Joe Burrow played six meaningful quarters of football
so far this year.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
True, he didn't play again the.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Rest of this season, he will have gone two years
with a total of six quarters of meaningful football. People
don't understand what that means. Timing is just everything his
being defenses. He probably is scared to death of the
thought of playing six quorders of football over the course
(22:16):
of two years. I don't care what he looks like
when he comes back. I just hope he's rolling by
the end of the year. That, like you said, this
season's bagged anyways. But if I can touch one other
quick thing, sure, the defense I wanted to scream. In
the Steelers game, you let Captain check Down throw the
ball two yards and get fifteen yard completions.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Out of it.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
The entire game, you're screaming, get up, pressed, pressed, Why
are you playing off coverage? He's just gonna dink and dunk.
Speaker 5 (22:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
And then you play the Patriots and you play totally
different defense. Why why did they wait till they're eliminated.
It's almost like it's on purpose, and it drives me
freaking crazy.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, I hear you.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I mean the things that I saw from Al Golden,
especially at the line of scrimmage, I thought, where has
this been all year? Especially when it comes to blitzing
and using guys like Geno Stone in blitz coverage and
Jalen Davis. I'm just like, how are you? Why has
this not been happening more often? And Steve, thank you
for the phone call. I have a few thoughts on that. Defensively,
(23:22):
I don't know if it was something they figured out
during the bye week, and I don't know if they're
just terrified of DK Metcalf being a deep threat. I
don't think that there's anybody on that Patriot team that
you think is a deep deep threat Stefan Diggs isn't
Matt Collins isn't. Like that's just not who they are,
And maybe they're trying to confuse Drake May a little bit.
(23:42):
But I agree with you, it was way too much
off coverage and allowing space for the Steelers to operate
in that offense to operate. Now, Pittsburgh doesn't usually work
the middle of the field, and it felt like the Bengals,
you know, didn't do a good enough job of kind
of daring them into the middle of the field. But
you know, that game's neither here nor there. At this point,
(24:04):
you started to see trends at least in the right direction.
When it comes to tackling. They were I believe the
lowest tackle miss tackle rate they've had in any game
happened this week against the Patriots. Barrett Carter missed zero tackles.
That is, in and of itself worthy of a banner.
(24:24):
Your point about Burrow, I agree with you, and I
do think that's something that's been overlooked a little bit,
is the idea that the guy just hasn't played that
much football.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
And if you it's important for.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Anyone to do what they do a lot and consistently
in the reps, and Joe's talked often about the reps. Now, Listen,
he could come out Thursday, he might be a little rusty.
We've seen him in the past in the first couple
games of his season. He doesn't look like the same guy.
He looks rusty, and he's often talked about how he
needs the reps. Now, maybe the idea that you start
(24:58):
with the Baltimore Raven essentially on Thanksgiving night in prime time,
that's enough to, you know, kind of unlock that Joe
Burrow that we've seen in the past. But you're right,
reps are important. I also don't think we should overreact
if the guy comes out and doesn't perform at the
level that maybe we saw him early on or at
least early in that Jacksonville game and all of last
(25:20):
year as well. Like it's it's not just hey, here's
Joe Burrow. He's gonna come in and throw for four
hundred and thirty yards and six touchdown. It's not gonna happen.
So I do think, you know, giving him a little
bit of grace is going to be important as far
as that's concerned.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
As well. Let's go to Tim in Dell High. What's up? Tim?
Speaker 6 (25:39):
Hey? First of all, I was just wanting to say, hey,
you know, if you took the bet, you were wanting
free Sunday. What does San asked all bet?
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (25:52):
Yeah, yeah, anyway, listen, Uh, I don't I don't care.
I mean the I understand why Jee wants to play,
because he needs the raps and he wants to play.
He's competitor. I just this season is done. I mean,
(26:14):
I want to see changes because I'm fraid they went out.
We're just gonna get false houts again and they won't
make no changes.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
That's that's what your fear is. Yeah, I want.
Speaker 6 (26:32):
Well, you know the last team seasons, well, we finished
strong as I was. Jae was healthy, but was Zach Taylor.
He he has to go. We got to make changes.
I had test play call.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Yeah, Tim, are you all right?
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Good?
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Just just checking? Thank you for the phone call.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, you know, I like the previous caller, said Steven
Montgomery said. I operate under the assumption that they're not
going to move on from Zach Taylor. I just don't
think that's going to happen unless the next six games
they get it destroyed and embarrassed. And it feels like
any progress they made the last two weeks goes back
(27:18):
in the opposite direction. I don't think some of the
decisions that Zach and his coaching staff have made this
year would have been made if they didn't think they
were safe. That's just the way I feel about that,
and so I also expect Mike Brown to be patient.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
I expect the ownership group to be patient.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I think they believe in Zach Taylor right, wrong or indifferent,
that's my guess onto how they view this situation. And
so if you operate under the assumption that the coaching
staff will not be adjusted, I think that is part
of this whole thing as well. How do they improve,
how do they get more out of the out of
their players, and how can they prove that they should
(28:09):
stick around or that there shouldn't be changes, or can
they develop? And that whole side of things I think
is really important. But I'm not operating under the assumption
that there's going to be wholesale changes. I would love
nothing more than for the Bengals to part ways with
Duke Tobin and to bring someone in from the outside
who might have a little bit more experience with the
intricacies of the salary cap and evaluation and scouting and
(28:35):
can kind of put together a system that can maybe
work considering the circumstances within the Bengals. I would love
for that to happen, but I don't expect it to happen.
I would love for them to hire Sean McVeagh. That's
not going to happen. So just operating with what I
think is the most likely scenario is the only thing
(28:56):
I really have to go off of. Let's go to Boston.
Let's talk to John. Hello, John Austin, how are you.
I'm hanging in there, man, how are you.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
We're doing okay, just getting ready for Thanksgiving. I wish
you and yours a happy Thanksgiving obviously, thank you absolutely.
First of all, when I think Steve two calls before
nailed it as far as the reps and playing, et cetera.
Because Joe's only played six quarters this season and he
doesn't play the rest of the year, he would have
played six quarters from the end of the twenty twenty
(29:26):
four seasons to the start of the twenty twenty six season.
That does no one any good. I mean, he talked
about it when he was at Ohio State when he
was at LSU with the Bengals reps, reps, reps. He
wants to get better every day. That's how you get
better in all of our jobs we do. The more
you host your show, the better you get. Just a
lot more reps make it a lot better. So that
is one component why I want to see him play.
(29:47):
The other thing is that you touched on the injuries.
Those injuries he had our fluke injuries, and they're like
car crash injuries. It's not like he showed up the
camp twenty pounds overweight and pull the hamstring.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
You know.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
The last injury, which I think only detailed the day
after the injury, he took the snap, tried to go
to Jamar Chase on a slant. The corner jumped the route.
It within one point three seconds of the snap. There
were three defenders cascading in his lower extremities. That toe
popped out. I don't know what he's supposed to do
other than what happened. You know, he's not a sideboard,
(30:19):
so obviously the injuries are concerned. But also let's not
forget if he finishes this season with six straight starts,
he will have made eighty four starts in six years.
It's not like he's missed eighty percent of the games.
I mean essentially misses three to four games a year,
which is not good. That's not good. It's about the
same rate as Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
It's not like he's.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
Out from you know, extending periods of time. It's just
when the injuries take place to be problematic. So I
think that's obviously a thing that gets oberrated. And my
final point is, I know people talk naturally and probably
in Cincinnati about the fact that you know this is
the roster you get when you pay your stars so
much money. Well, Joe Burrow, Chase Brown, Jamar Chase, and
(30:59):
t Biggans are their four offensive weapons. They make the
same amount of money as Jalen Hurts, Tae Kwon Barkley,
A J. Brown, and Devonte Smith. So pick those four
players from the Bengals off the roster, take the four
Eagles players out of the equation. How did Philadelphia build
a roster while paying the four guys the same amount
of money that Cincinnati pays him. They just draft a
(31:20):
lot better and they develop a lot better. So it
can be done. And as you've talked about several times,
they're what ten twelve million under the payroll right now
under the sas under the limit, so they can spend
more money. It's just it's it's such an easy excuse
to say, oh, paying a quarterback. Well, when they have
a quarterback like that, you pay him. You have a
receiver like that, you pay him. And it's it's just
(31:41):
all these false narratives that go out there, and I
think that I just want to see the guy play.
I mean, my favorite player, and I just think for
the next six weeks it's going to be blast to
see him play, makes the sport much more interesting, and
he's going to scare the hell out of people because
I know last week at this time, I was talking
to some people in Boston like, we don't want to
see him come out on Sunday, you know, we fear him.
(32:01):
And I still think if he plays, and if if
you watch Chase played last Sunday, they probably win that
game because the Patriots weren't very good and Cincinnati's defense
looked Okay.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 5 (32:13):
Let's enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, Johnny can be that simple thank you for the
phone call, And it really can be that simple. It
can be that simple as Hey, I want my favorite player,
my best player, to play. I like watching watching him
play football. I like him and seeing him and Jamar
Chase do cool things. I mean, how many players over
the course of the Bengals history would you do anything
to watch them play one more game? I think about
(32:37):
that with Corey Dillon. I think about that with Chad Johnson.
I was at Chad's last home game and and I
think he had like two catches for thirty five yards.
Like I would love I would do anything to watch
one more game with Chad Johnson playing. Listen, this stuff
goes quick. Man Like Burrow already in his sixth season
(32:58):
in the National Football League, Like, I don't want to
throw away any games. I don't want to just move
on now into the year. This year, Miles Garrett probably
going for the NFL record in sacks. I have no
interest in Joe Burrow playing that game. That's completely pointless.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
But like.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I still I want to see the best players play.
That's what's fun about being a football fan. Like it
can be that simple, Like how many great players have
the Bengals had over the course of their existence that
make you think, Man, I was a great player. I
wish I could watch them play one more time. I
(33:40):
wish I could see Ken Riley streaking down the sideline
on a pick six. I wish I could see Lamar
Parris return a punt. I wish I could see aj
Green go up over top of somebody in hall in
a touchdown. I wish I could see Chad Johnson shake
somebody at the top of a route and cross across
the field, beat a dude to the end zone and
have some crazy touchdown celebration.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I wish I could see vontees Berfect knock the snot
out of a Pittsburgh Steeler again. Those are the things
that you want, and sometimes it can be as simple
as I want to. I want to watch the best
players play football. Take a break, we'll be back. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
You've been listening to football in the Natty on ESPN
fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 7 (34:32):
Your front row seat to the fierces debates in sports
Moegger Today at three pm on ESPN fifteen thirty, block that.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Word for Dade a thamas now job top of the circle.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Didn't think about the three that time Risa Elliot, don't
God five on top of job, I just.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Play Marcreesta coming off in the Fresh coming off the
screen role player Tom just throwing it up, slimming it down.
Speaker 8 (34:58):
Good job.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Eight two bear sixty to thirteen left and the half.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
That was a call last night, Dan Horde Steve Logan
on seven hundred WLW Bearcats victorious ninety four sixty seven
over the n JI Highlanders. That's the New Jersey Institute
of Technology Bearcats five and one. And that call brought
to you by our friends at wind Schuler's Cheese Spreads. Listen,
(35:25):
there's nothing better to bring with you. Maybe you're going
to a Thanksgiving gathering, Maybe you're gonna go watch the
Ohio State Michigan game together this weekend. I don't know,
but you can't go wrong with any of win Schuler's
four tasty cheese spread options original, sharp, cheddar, Bacon, pepper jack.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I love them all. You should too.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
By the way, don't forget go to Winshulers dot com
for some easy to follow recipes if you need something
to prepare for your party, your Thanksgiving, your get together
this weekend. A couple of other things going on in
sports a couple of former Cincinnati athletes. How about this
Cad York, the former Bengal kicker. You might remember he
(36:08):
stepped in in place of Evan McPherson last year. You know,
Cad York actually had the franchise record tied with McPherson
for the longest field goal until McPherson broke it this
past Sunday. It was fifty nine yards. Cade York and
Evan McPherson held that franchise record. Well, Cad York has
signed today with the New Orleans Saints. He was part
(36:29):
of a workout yesterday in New Orleans that featured former
Ravens kicker Justin Tucker Ollkad York has been signed by
the New Orleans Saints, and a former Red was traded
today from the Saint Louis Cardinals to the Boston Red Sox,
Sonny Gray traded to Boston. Boston in return gets a
(36:51):
couple of relief pitchers major league relief pitchers, including one
guy by the name of Richard Fitz Fi t T
I cannot wait for Ellie de la Cruz to hit
a home run off of Richard fits and then make
fun of him by saying Richard giving him fits. These
are the things to look forward to during the summer.
(37:13):
But Sonny Gray on the move today too. The Boston
Red Sox. Boston's gonna be an interesting team next year.
By the way, I think we're one hundred and twenty
two days away from Opening day, pitchers and catchers reporting.
In just a couple of months, there have been a
couple of trades across Major League Baseball, nothing crazy. I'm
(37:35):
really curious to see what the Reds do because they
do have some money to spend, if you believe what
Nick Crawl said in their idea of building this team
kind of along the same lines as last year. I
know that they avoided arbitration with Sam Mall and signed
him to a team friendly deal, and I think that's
(37:56):
one of the important parts of the offseason is getting
left handed pitch and bullpen pitching specifically, that I think
is going to be where most of the money is spent.
It's going to be on those bullpen arms. We've talked
about that extensively. I don't really expect them to do
much in terms of getting an offensive player. I think
(38:19):
that they fully believe in Chris Valaka. I think that
they fully believe in Chris Valaka's ability to turn people around,
and they are really giving him the reins to the
entire organization. Now, you may or may not agree with that.
I don't know that I agree with it. I'm pretty
sure I don't. But the Reds have been pretty open
(38:42):
about what they plan to do with this organization and
what the plan is under Nick Krawl, It's to spend
one hundred to one hundred and twenty million dollars. It's
to get young athletic middle infielders and outfielders and to
use their athleticism to sprinkle them around to different positions
(39:04):
and to just kind of continually keep that train rolling.
And Nick Krawl has said he wants to eliminate peaks
and valleys, which means they want to kind of be
about the same team every year. They don't want to
have these dips and they don't want to have these peaks.
You know, we don't want to win ninety seven games
a year. We'd rather win like eighty five every single year.
(39:25):
Like that's kind of what they're telling you, and that's
how they feel like they can win and how they
feel like is the only option. And on top of that,
they are a team that does not believe in hitting
home runs. They don't believe in hitting for power. They've
talked about how some of their more powerful players in
their system, including Sal Stewart, is working on losing weight
(39:46):
and becoming more athletic. Talked about that with Hector Rodriguez
as well, like, this is who the Reds are, this
is what they believe, this is how they're going to
approach it. Whether or not you agree with it, it's
the unfortunate reaction. And I think Nick Carl kind of
said something along the lines of you got in a
lot of ways draft and develop your pitching and at
(40:06):
times overpay for pitchers to get them to come to
Great American Ballpark because of the size of the park.
So he'll say that out of one side of his mouth,
and then on the other side of the mouth he'll say, well,
we're working on these guys losing some weight and getting
in shape so we can put the ball in play.
That is their philosophy, and because of that, they're not
going to make a run at Kyle Schwarber. They're not
(40:28):
going to make a run at anybody who hits a
lot of home runs. What I find most interesting is
is kind of going back to last season, Terry Francona
threw the brakes on when it comes to running the bases.
They weren't stealing bases, they weren't as aggressive on the
bass paths. And if you're not going to be a
team that hits extra base hits, that hits home runs,
(40:49):
if you're going to be a put the ball in
play and hit singles type of organization, which is what
I feel their organizational philosophy is, well, then you got
to be able to to steal some bases, You got
to be able to take that extra base. You got
to be willing to toe the line between reckless and
aggressive on the base path. And I hope that Terry
(41:12):
Francona does a better job with that this year, because
there was many things last year that I found myself
scratching my head at Francona's decision making and throwing the
brakes on. The run game was probably the biggest one,
because that's how they score runs, and repeatedly, over and
over and over and over and over and over again,
(41:33):
they were leaving understranded and they were scoring three or
fewer runs every night, and that was just a maddening
brand of baseball to watch, and I hope that they
make some serious, serious gains this year when it comes
to just working the counts and getting guys on base
and actually stealing bases so that it's a much more
(41:54):
fun product to watch. Did not enjoy that this past year.
All Right, we'll take a break. We'll come back, Joe
Dana ten minutes from now on the Home of the Bengals,
ESPN fifteen to thirty. Welcome back to Tony Pike since
three sixty, ESPN fifteen thirty. I'm Austin Elmore coming up
(42:16):
in about five minutes, Joe Daniman Fox nineteen. He will
talk Bengals with us and a little bit of everything else.
He was at say Nex Elder Friday night in what
looked to be an incredible atmosphere at pay Course Stadium.
I want to ask him a little bit about that.
Other news of the day, the semi finalists for the
(42:38):
twenty twenty six Pro Football Hall of Fame induction were announced.
One former Bengal, Willie Anderson, on the list. He joins
others like Drew Brees, Larry Fitzgerald, Torry Holt, Eli Manning, Reggie,
Wayne Jason Witten, who is not a Hall of Famer,
(42:58):
Rodney Harrison, Luke Keikley speaking of Saint X, Vince will
For Adam Vinterteri, Darren Williams, Terrell Suggs. You remember Tis
Sizzle playing with the Ravens all those years. A bunch
of finalists announced and our semi finalists announced. Willie, of course,
Big Willy Anderson was a finalist last year in the
Pro Football Hall of Fame. That is always announced on
(43:21):
the Saturday before the Super Bowl. Who is going in?
So looking forward to hearing about that and hoping the
best for Big Willie. All Right, we'll take a break,
we'll come back. We'll talk to Joey d next right
here on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 8 (43:38):
Kwise Cincinnati, make us the number one pre set on
your car radio and on the free, new and improved
iHeartRadio app. Free never sounded so good, ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
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