For Pride Month, we feature A PLACE FOR US, by medical doctor and author Patricia Grayhall. Her book is LGBTQ+ romance set against the backdrop of the 1980s and early 2000s, which draws on her own quest to find a country where she could legally reside with her British partner – long before the U.S. extended immigration rights to gay couples. For more, visit patriciagrayhall.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Get Connected with Nina del Rio, a weekly
conversation about fitness, health and happenings in our community on
one oh six point seven Light FM.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Thanks for listening to get connected. Happy Pride everyone. It
is Pride Month. A little later today in Manhattan is
the Pride March. We are starting the morning with medical
doctor and author Patricia Grayhall. Her book Is a Place
for Us, a powerful LGBTQ plus romance set against the
backdrop of the nineteen eighties and early two thousands. Patricia Grayhall,
(00:35):
thank you for being on the show.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
You can find out more about Patricia and her work
her writing at Patricia Grayhall dot com. This is a
story of a long distance relationship through the lens of
lesbians prior to the legalization of gay marriage and immigration rights.
I wonder if we could start, maybe just tell us
a little bit about our main characters, Joe and American
(00:58):
and Lauren a British woman.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Sure, absolutely so. Joe's an ambitious environmental attorney in Washington,
d C. And Lauren is a free spirited British woman,
and they meet by chance in a lively London pub
in nineteen eighty one, and their attraction is instant and undeniable,
but they're romance has cut short by distance and Joe's careers, ambitions,
(01:25):
and immigration laws of the time, And they don't meet
again for twenty two years when their lives again collide
in San Francisco. But both of them are trapped in
these unfulfilling relationships. But the reunion sets their passion ablaze
again and offers them a second chance. And then but
(01:48):
they have to navigate the wreckage of their current lives
and relationships and painful truths they've avoided for decades. But
then they have to face the most daunting challenge yet,
in a world that refuses to recognize their love. How
can they possibly build a life together when no country
(02:10):
will grant them sanctuary.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
There's so much to the story I want to talk
briefly about just the time setting. The portion in the
nineteen eighties is brief. Most of the book takes place
in the early two thousands, right, But it occurred to
me the complications of being in a committed same sex
relationship in the nineteen eighties. There's a bit of resignation
that that is just not something that's in the cards
(02:32):
legally for them because they're in two separate countries, right,
But the complications in the two thousands, it feels like
it's almost thornier because the opportunity is still so close
and yet just out of reach.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yes, it is because in two thousand and two, for
the first time, Canada recognized same sex couples for immigration.
The only problem was for us is that we have
to show that we'd lived together for a year in
a konjuguial relationship. But there was no country. I mean,
(03:09):
we couldn't do that in either of our home countries,
so it was kind of a catch twenty two and
so the novel is a bit of a romantic suspense
novel in that, especially the last third where they have
to navigate roadblock after roadblock and trying to make that
(03:31):
happen so they could immigrate together.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I wonder, since you say we, I'm I'm sure you're
talking about lesbian women in general, But I wonder where
do the bones of this story come from, and how
much of this story might mirror your own.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
So it is auto fiction, which is my new writing
sweet spot, and it does it is inspired by our
own experience because, in fact, in two thousand and three,
we were having that exact conundu and we did have
to not navigate these barriers to immigration, and it was
(04:09):
very complex and gnarly, but we did it, and you know,
we've been together for twenty two years. It does have
a happy ending as well.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I assume the book best too. As I mentioned, I
haven't finished it yet, but it feels like it will.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yes, it does. I mean, it's a romance at its core,
and it's also a meditation on self acceptance and the
search for a home, not just in the physical sense,
but in the arms of someone who truly understands and
cherishes you. So I think it will resonate beyond the
queer community. In many of the issues I explore in
(04:49):
the book are universal to us all.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Let's talk about one of those in a moment. The
book is a Place for Us by Patricia Grayhall. It
draws on her personal quest to find a country where
she could legally reside with her British partner, long before
the US extended immigration rights to gay couples. You can
find out more at Patricia Grayhall dot com. You're listening
to get Connected on one six point seven Light FM.
(05:14):
I'mina del Rio and just one point to be clear.
If same sex marriage was legalized in twenty twelve, I
believe when did immigration rights officially apply to gay couples
in the US.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
So it was twenty thirteen, and that's when Homeland Security
and changed the rules to treat same sex couples the
same as heterosexual couples. See only caveat to that is
that the couples had to be legally married in their
(05:50):
home country or their country of origin. So obviously that
that was a problem in many places.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
In the book. You also touch on abusive relationships. Lesbians
are not immune from them. Gay people are not immune
from them, and it's not for a lack of intelligence
or sanity. But why do these characters in the book
accept them for so long? And did you make a
conscious choice to want to include them in the story?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I did, because so the beauty of auto fiction is
that I can go beyond my own experience to explore
issues in gnarly issues that affect us all, and I
did so in a place for us. So it's a
(06:37):
complicated issue. Heterosexuals don't have a lock on abusive relationships,
and in the past, of course, in our literature, we've
striven to project a positive image of ourselves to the
dominant culture. But in fact, queer people have many of
the same issues as everybody, and this one in particular
(07:01):
is a complex issue because there's love, there's good times,
there's hope that the partner will change, which traps some
people into losing their agency and so they're not able
to act in their own self interest. So it's kind
(07:22):
of like Grace Paley said, right from what you know
and write into what you don't know. So that's why
I included it. I just wanted to explore some issues
beyond my own experience and that I thought would are relevant.
The other thing to say is that it you know,
(07:44):
I think now queer people, more and more queer people
want to see themselves represented in books and as the complex,
multifaceted individuals that we are beyond just our sexual identity.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
We talked a bit about how the lack of legal
protections impact Joe and Lauren. I wonder how the lack
of legal protections impacted a couple's vision of themselves at
the time. Although things you know, that's probably still an
issue depending on where you are, But how does it
(08:21):
impact your vision of yourself and the vision of people
around them.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Well, I think I think it for Joe and Lauren.
You know, it's never that their love was their love
was strong, and their commitment to each other was absolute,
and I don't think the views of the dominant culture
(08:48):
affected their commitment or their resolve, you know, So I
think that they persevered and didn't adopt any sort of
internalized homophobia from the dominant culture. If that was your question.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, well, I'm just wondering, you know, Joe and Lauren
are one example, but in general, prior to legal protections,
and do want to talk a bit about sort of
where we are with legal protections, prior to legal protections,
how that just impacts your feeling about yourself? I mean
it must, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Yeah, Well, I think it's clearer in my memoir Making
the Rounds, which takes place in the late sixties and
early seventies, and certainly when I was going to library
and trying to figure out who I was and looking
at books, you know, they all everything I read said
that homosexuals, that it was a disease, and that we
(09:53):
were doomed to live unhappy lives, unable to form lasting
relationships or hold down jobs. And this just didn't sound good.
And so I think, I think, you know, if I
weren't so sure of my within myself, of my identity,
(10:18):
I would be very discouraged by that. And but you know,
fortunately I wasn't, even though I had to hide my
identity and I tried, you know, to be straight. I
certainly expended some energy, entering into some unhealthy situations to
(10:40):
do that, But in the end, I think, you know,
I persevered. If you look at the you know, if
you look look at the demographics now about who identifies
as being queer or you know, gay or lesbian. Now,
the numbers in young people are much much higher than
(11:04):
older generations. In part, I think, not so much that
suddenly there's just a whole lot more queer people, but
that people are young people are feel more comfortable in
identifying themselves in that way.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I actually have some numbers which came out just in
the last month or so. I think this is a
gallop pole. LGBTQ plus identification at the in the US
is now seven point six percent, up from three point
five percent in twenty twelve, which was the first time
that pole had been taken. Most of the growth is
tied to younger adults. More than one in five gen
(11:41):
Z adults ages eighteen to twenty six identify as LGBTQ plus. Again,
they've come out, like you were saying, in the most
gay friendly climate our country has ever seen. Right, what
does it make you think about as someone who grew
up in a time Most of us grew up in
a time if we're over, say thirty five, at a
time when it was much the opposite. Well everything.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, So the stories in my books both making the
rounds in a place for us show it does show
that we can thrive and lead astounding lives despite little
support from mainstream society, and hopefully provide hope for these
young people who are shocked, absolutely shocked by the current
backlash and loss of rights and freedoms that they've taken
(12:27):
for granted most of their lives. And you know, it's
a Brene Brown said, you know, one day you'll tell
your story of what you went through and it'll be
somebody else's survival guide. And that's what I hope for
my book. But just as before, I think if we
continue to live and express our truth and form strong
(12:50):
communities of ourselves and allies and resist tyranny in everyday lives,
in big and small acts. I think the current backlash
will become like a bad dream. I hope.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
It's a really interesting time. We just have a couple
of minutes left, but it's a really interesting time because
just this month, the Defense Department removed the name of
Harvey Milk from a battleship, they halted the National Suicide
Hotlines partnership with the Trevor Project, and many other things. Right,
it is no less angering, I think when you're older.
But perhaps when you're older you've seen it all. When
(13:25):
you're younger, there's this feeling perhaps that there was a
sense of security. I don't know if you agree with that,
But what do you think that says the current climate
says about the ongoing work of public persuasion.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, well, I think it's like two steps forward, one
steps back. It's still better than it used to be
in most part in many parts of the country, not all.
I think some parts since of the country it's actually worse.
But it's the nature of progress. I think that when
(14:03):
rights and freedoms are obtained for marginalized communities, then there's
a backlash, and so that's what we're experiencing now, but
I think we will get through it.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Since we are having this conversation in Pride Month, the
Pride March is today in New York, maybe we just
want to end, or if you'd like to end on
the significance of Pride Month for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Well, I think we need to go back to the
original purpose of Pride, which has lately in recent times
become more of a celebration and commercialized. But originally it
was a platform for political activism, raising awareness of ongoing
issues like discrimination, violence, and legislative challenges. And so hopefully
(14:50):
we'll go back to the roots of pride and once
again and you know, at its core, it encourages people
to be proud of who they are, regardless of who
they love and how they identify. So I think we
have to go back to the roots of resistance and
it is a celebration, but it's also an act of
(15:12):
resistance and you know, letting the world know that we're here,
We've always been here, and we'll continue to be here
and not be obliterated by the current administrative backlash.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Our guest is Patricia Grayhall. Her book is a place
for us. You can find out more about Patricia at
Patricia Grayhall dot com. Happy Pride, and thank you for
being on Get Connected.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
This has been Get Connected with Nina del Rio on
one o six point seven light Fm. The views and
opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the views
of the station. If you missed any part of our
show or want to share it, visit our website. Were
downloads and podcasts at one oh six to seven lightfm
dot com. Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Get Connected with Nina del Rio, a weekly
conversation about fitness, health and happenings in our community on
one oh six point seven Light FM.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Thanks for listening to get connected. Happy Pride everyone. It
is Pride Month. A little later today in Manhattan is
the Pride March. We are starting the morning with medical
doctor and author Patricia Grayhall. Her book Is a Place
for Us, a powerful LGBTQ plus romance set against the
backdrop of the nineteen eighties and early two thousands. Patricia Grayhall,
(00:35):
thank you for being on the show.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
You can find out more about Patricia and her work
her writing at Patricia Grayhall dot com. This is a
story of a long distance relationship through the lens of
lesbians prior to the legalization of gay marriage and immigration rights.
I wonder if we could start, maybe just tell us
a little bit about our main characters, Joe and American
(00:58):
and Lauren a British woman.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Sure, absolutely so. Joe's an ambitious environmental attorney in Washington,
d C. And Lauren is a free spirited British woman,
and they meet by chance in a lively London pub
in nineteen eighty one, and their attraction is instant and undeniable,
but they're romance has cut short by distance and Joe's careers, ambitions,
(01:25):
and immigration laws of the time, And they don't meet
again for twenty two years when their lives again collide
in San Francisco. But both of them are trapped in
these unfulfilling relationships. But the reunion sets their passion ablaze
again and offers them a second chance. And then but
(01:48):
they have to navigate the wreckage of their current lives
and relationships and painful truths they've avoided for decades. But
then they have to face the most daunting challenge yet,
in a world that refuses to recognize their love. How
can they possibly build a life together when no country
(02:10):
will grant them sanctuary.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
There's so much to the story I want to talk
briefly about just the time setting. The portion in the
nineteen eighties is brief. Most of the book takes place
in the early two thousands, right, But it occurred to
me the complications of being in a committed same sex
relationship in the nineteen eighties. There's a bit of resignation
that that is just not something that's in the cards
(02:32):
legally for them because they're in two separate countries, right,
But the complications in the two thousands, it feels like
it's almost thornier because the opportunity is still so close
and yet just out of reach.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yes, it is because in two thousand and two, for
the first time, Canada recognized same sex couples for immigration.
The only problem was for us is that we have
to show that we'd lived together for a year in
a konjuguial relationship. But there was no country. I mean,
(03:09):
we couldn't do that in either of our home countries,
so it was kind of a catch twenty two and
so the novel is a bit of a romantic suspense
novel in that, especially the last third where they have
to navigate roadblock after roadblock and trying to make that
(03:31):
happen so they could immigrate together.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I wonder, since you say we, I'm I'm sure you're
talking about lesbian women in general, But I wonder where
do the bones of this story come from, and how
much of this story might mirror your own.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
So it is auto fiction, which is my new writing
sweet spot, and it does it is inspired by our
own experience because, in fact, in two thousand and three,
we were having that exact conundu and we did have
to not navigate these barriers to immigration, and it was
(04:09):
very complex and gnarly, but we did it, and you know,
we've been together for twenty two years. It does have
a happy ending as well.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I assume the book best too. As I mentioned, I
haven't finished it yet, but it feels like it will.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yes, it does. I mean, it's a romance at its core,
and it's also a meditation on self acceptance and the
search for a home, not just in the physical sense,
but in the arms of someone who truly understands and
cherishes you. So I think it will resonate beyond the
queer community. In many of the issues I explore in
(04:49):
the book are universal to us all.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Let's talk about one of those in a moment. The
book is a Place for Us by Patricia Grayhall. It
draws on her personal quest to find a country where
she could legally reside with her British partner, long before
the US extended immigration rights to gay couples. You can
find out more at Patricia Grayhall dot com. You're listening
to get Connected on one six point seven Light FM.
(05:14):
I'mina del Rio and just one point to be clear.
If same sex marriage was legalized in twenty twelve, I
believe when did immigration rights officially apply to gay couples
in the US.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
So it was twenty thirteen, and that's when Homeland Security
and changed the rules to treat same sex couples the
same as heterosexual couples. See only caveat to that is
that the couples had to be legally married in their
(05:50):
home country or their country of origin. So obviously that
that was a problem in many places.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
In the book. You also touch on abusive relationships. Lesbians
are not immune from them. Gay people are not immune
from them, and it's not for a lack of intelligence
or sanity. But why do these characters in the book
accept them for so long? And did you make a
conscious choice to want to include them in the story?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I did, because so the beauty of auto fiction is
that I can go beyond my own experience to explore
issues in gnarly issues that affect us all, and I
did so in a place for us. So it's a
(06:37):
complicated issue. Heterosexuals don't have a lock on abusive relationships,
and in the past, of course, in our literature, we've
striven to project a positive image of ourselves to the
dominant culture. But in fact, queer people have many of
the same issues as everybody, and this one in particular
(07:01):
is a complex issue because there's love, there's good times,
there's hope that the partner will change, which traps some
people into losing their agency and so they're not able
to act in their own self interest. So it's kind
(07:22):
of like Grace Paley said, right from what you know
and write into what you don't know. So that's why
I included it. I just wanted to explore some issues
beyond my own experience and that I thought would are relevant.
The other thing to say is that it you know,
(07:44):
I think now queer people, more and more queer people
want to see themselves represented in books and as the complex,
multifaceted individuals that we are beyond just our sexual identity.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
We talked a bit about how the lack of legal
protections impact Joe and Lauren. I wonder how the lack
of legal protections impacted a couple's vision of themselves at
the time. Although things you know, that's probably still an
issue depending on where you are, But how does it
(08:21):
impact your vision of yourself and the vision of people
around them.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Well, I think I think it for Joe and Lauren.
You know, it's never that their love was their love
was strong, and their commitment to each other was absolute,
and I don't think the views of the dominant culture
(08:48):
affected their commitment or their resolve, you know, So I
think that they persevered and didn't adopt any sort of
internalized homophobia from the dominant culture. If that was your question.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, well, I'm just wondering, you know, Joe and Lauren
are one example, but in general, prior to legal protections,
and do want to talk a bit about sort of
where we are with legal protections, prior to legal protections,
how that just impacts your feeling about yourself? I mean
it must, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Yeah, Well, I think it's clearer in my memoir Making
the Rounds, which takes place in the late sixties and
early seventies, and certainly when I was going to library
and trying to figure out who I was and looking
at books, you know, they all everything I read said
that homosexuals, that it was a disease, and that we
(09:53):
were doomed to live unhappy lives, unable to form lasting
relationships or hold down jobs. And this just didn't sound good.
And so I think, I think, you know, if I
weren't so sure of my within myself, of my identity,
(10:18):
I would be very discouraged by that. And but you know,
fortunately I wasn't, even though I had to hide my
identity and I tried, you know, to be straight. I
certainly expended some energy, entering into some unhealthy situations to
(10:40):
do that, But in the end, I think, you know,
I persevered. If you look at the you know, if
you look look at the demographics now about who identifies
as being queer or you know, gay or lesbian. Now,
the numbers in young people are much much higher than
(11:04):
older generations. In part, I think, not so much that
suddenly there's just a whole lot more queer people, but
that people are young people are feel more comfortable in
identifying themselves in that way.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I actually have some numbers which came out just in
the last month or so. I think this is a
gallop pole. LGBTQ plus identification at the in the US
is now seven point six percent, up from three point
five percent in twenty twelve, which was the first time
that pole had been taken. Most of the growth is
tied to younger adults. More than one in five gen
(11:41):
Z adults ages eighteen to twenty six identify as LGBTQ plus. Again,
they've come out, like you were saying, in the most
gay friendly climate our country has ever seen. Right, what
does it make you think about as someone who grew
up in a time Most of us grew up in
a time if we're over, say thirty five, at a
time when it was much the opposite. Well everything.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, So the stories in my books both making the
rounds in a place for us show it does show
that we can thrive and lead astounding lives despite little
support from mainstream society, and hopefully provide hope for these
young people who are shocked, absolutely shocked by the current
backlash and loss of rights and freedoms that they've taken
(12:27):
for granted most of their lives. And you know, it's
a Brene Brown said, you know, one day you'll tell
your story of what you went through and it'll be
somebody else's survival guide. And that's what I hope for
my book. But just as before, I think if we
continue to live and express our truth and form strong
(12:50):
communities of ourselves and allies and resist tyranny in everyday lives,
in big and small acts. I think the current backlash
will become like a bad dream. I hope.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
It's a really interesting time. We just have a couple
of minutes left, but it's a really interesting time because
just this month, the Defense Department removed the name of
Harvey Milk from a battleship, they halted the National Suicide
Hotlines partnership with the Trevor Project, and many other things. Right,
it is no less angering, I think when you're older.
But perhaps when you're older you've seen it all. When
(13:25):
you're younger, there's this feeling perhaps that there was a
sense of security. I don't know if you agree with that,
But what do you think that says the current climate
says about the ongoing work of public persuasion.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, well, I think it's like two steps forward, one
steps back. It's still better than it used to be
in most part in many parts of the country, not all.
I think some parts since of the country it's actually worse.
But it's the nature of progress. I think that when
(14:03):
rights and freedoms are obtained for marginalized communities, then there's
a backlash, and so that's what we're experiencing now, but
I think we will get through it.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Since we are having this conversation in Pride Month, the
Pride March is today in New York, maybe we just
want to end, or if you'd like to end on
the significance of Pride Month for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Well, I think we need to go back to the
original purpose of Pride, which has lately in recent times
become more of a celebration and commercialized. But originally it
was a platform for political activism, raising awareness of ongoing
issues like discrimination, violence, and legislative challenges. And so hopefully
(14:50):
we'll go back to the roots of pride and once
again and you know, at its core, it encourages people
to be proud of who they are, regardless of who
they love and how they identify. So I think we
have to go back to the roots of resistance and
it is a celebration, but it's also an act of
(15:12):
resistance and you know, letting the world know that we're here,
We've always been here, and we'll continue to be here
and not be obliterated by the current administrative backlash.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Our guest is Patricia Grayhall. Her book is a place
for us. You can find out more about Patricia at
Patricia Grayhall dot com. Happy Pride, and thank you for
being on Get Connected.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
This has been Get Connected with Nina del Rio on
one o six point seven light Fm. The views and
opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the views
of the station. If you missed any part of our
show or want to share it, visit our website. Were
downloads and podcasts at one oh six to seven lightfm
dot com. Thanks for listening.
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