February 10, 2025 • 14 mins
Breakups are difficult in so many ways, but also an opportunity to reset and bounce back better! Our guest is John Kim, also known as “The Angry Therapist” and a bestselling author who’s latest book is BREAK UP ON PURPOSE: A Catalyst for Growth…where he identifies 8 distinct types of breakups with tailored approaches to healing for each unique situation. John Kim is a licensed marriage and family therapist based in Los Angeles and the author of books including “It’s Not Me, It’s You” and “Single On Purpose.”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to get Connected with Nina del Rio, a weekly
conversation about fitness, health and happenings in our community on
one oh six point seven light FM.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome and thanks for listening to get connected talking about
breakups for the next few minutes, which are difficult in
so many ways, but yet an opportunity to reset and
perhaps bounce back better. Our guest is John Kim, also
known as the Angry Therapist, and a best selling author
whose latest book is break Up on Purpose, a Catalyst
for Growth, where John identifies eight distinct types of breakups
(00:35):
with tailored approaches to healing for each situation. John Kim,
thank you for being on the show.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Thank you for having me and helping me create this dialogue.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
John Kim is a licensed marriage and family therapist based
in Los Angeles who blogs as the Angry Therapist. He
is the author of books including It's Not Me, It's
You and Single on Purpose. So this book, John, is
about recalibrating the meaning of breakups.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well, I always thought that you know, there isn't a
one fits all when it comes to healing from a breakup,
and that's because we go through different types of breakups.
And why hasn't anyone talked about all the different types
of breakups that we have gone through, because what's prescribed
will be different, you know, And so the book hangs on, yeah,
the eight different types of breakups that we all grow through,
turning your breakup into you know, breakthroughs.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
What made you start thinking about these patterns and the
different types of breakups? We'll talk about a few of
men a couple of minutes.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Working with my clients and seeing similarities and also realizing that,
for example, if one client went through a flat soda
breakup where it was mutual, that's very different than say
another client who was going through a blindsided breakup, which
may be a little more traumatic. And you know, what
(01:49):
is priority as far as how to heal is definitely
going to be different. And so I realized, oh, there's
different ways to heal all the different types of breakups.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
It's also interesting, I think, to talk about your path.
So your path to becoming a therapist started in fact,
as you write in the book, the greatest gift You've
ever received a divorce.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yes, the hardest thing I've gone through, but also the
greatest blessing. I mean, I wouldn't I wouldn't be in
front of you today if it wasn't for the divorce.
I got divorced at thirty five and had to start
all over, went back to school, became a therapist, and
that was the beginning for me. I spent five years
of a marriage where I didn't have much of a life.
(02:34):
I was miserable and didn't take much ownership. And so
the divorce forced me to start at the ground floor,
build a life for myself first before investing in anyone else.
And that was huge, It was foundational, was everything.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
That was about fifteen years ago. Some of us can
hang onto our breakups, as you know, for five years,
for fifteen years for more. Why do the after effects
of some breaks ups stay with us for long after?
Why do we never come to a comfort level perhaps
with very specific relationships.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Sure because the imprint of our body from that experience.
You know, I talk about the big one, right, the
first true love breakup. And the reason why that's a
power powerful is because it usually happens when we're younger
and our hearts are hard to know. It's our first imprint.
And you know, when you think about like high school,
everything is life or death, you know, and so a
(03:28):
lot of times we will play back old relationships, playing
the highlight reel and playing them back from who we were,
not who we are now, and so it's distorted and
we start tracing posters, creating fantasies, and we make decisions
based on this, and they're not always smart decisions.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Let's talk a little bit more about that. When the
first true love breakup, which is the first one you
talk about in the book about the different types in
the relationship that you use as an example, something happens
that can happen when we're older, but I definitely think
it happens when we're younger. One of us gives so
much to the other person, trying to do what we
think they will love, we kind of lose what we
(04:10):
want or need for ourselves.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, yeah, you know what it's like. It's like giving
giving your kid the keys to the Porsche. You know,
they just they're just gonna floor it and they don't
know how to drive the car. Well, they don't have
not put in enough reps to drive the car. They're
just going to go fast. And I think with young love,
(04:32):
because we have not learned about ourselves and tools and
things like you know, attachment styles and love languages, and
you know, how to repair ruptures. We just go by
what we feel. And usually what we feel, especially if
it's very potent, the lightning can actually be dysfunction. So
we are chasing, usually something unhealthy and then losing ourselves
(04:53):
in the process. And then we stamp that as love
or the one and now it's just a colliding of
two young kids who don't know better.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
So how do we get out of the regret of
that particular one, that first true love break up? However
long that regret lives with us.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah, I don't think we should regret because it's our
rite of passage. You know, we all have our one,
we all have the first imprints of love, and those
those early collisions actually aren't meant to last forever. They're
meant to kind of stepping stones for us to learn
about love. You know. It's kind of a crash course,
And I think that's how we let go of it
(05:32):
is to accept that that was meant to expire and
we were supposed to learn and grow from that relationship.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Our guest is John Kim. He's a licensed marriage and
family therapist based in LA with numerous books, This one
is break up on purpose a catalyst for growth. You're
listening to get connected on one oh six point seven
light FM. I'mna del rio. I'm going to jump ahead
a bit to the flat so to break up so
there's no ness, not necessarily a problem, and you're just
(06:00):
with someone because you're essentially too polite to break up.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
The flat soda breakup is when feelings have changed. It's
when people have not expressed where they're at in their
relationship and they're just together and you kind of become roommates,
you know. The flat soda breakup is when it's almost
you've drifted too far to turn back, Like almost a
relationship isn't fixable because you don't see the person that
way anymore. You know, it's almost too late. And I
(06:25):
think a lot of people they see in relationships because
they don't want to be alone, even if the relationship
isn't exciting and vibrant and everything they wanted to be,
they just kind of put up with the relationship. And
then it's you know when they wake up and you realize, oh,
I see this person more like a brother or sister.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
What work is there to do if everything to some
degree feels fine.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I think every relationship requires what they call it fanning
the flames or shoveling coal into the fire. I think
after the honeymoon stage, when things get real and you
start to see that the three sixty of a person
and you realize they're not perfect and things bother you
about them, that's when love actually really begins. And from
(07:11):
that point on, investing in a relationship is about date
nights and all the effort that it requires to keep
it going, keep the plane in the air.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Because of the flat soda breakup. And I think another
one in the book, it made me wonder, how do
you feel about arguments among couples in general? People who
don't argue. Sometimes when couples.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Come to me, they say, we never fight. I kind
of see that as a red flag. We're supposed to fight.
It's okay to fight. It's not about not fighting, it's
about how we fight. So the ability to repair rupture
is foundational. And if you don't know how to do that,
if two people don't know how to do that, it's
eventually the plane's going to go down.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
The breakup that never ends. Why are these so common?
Why do we try to save a relatetionationships again and again. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I think a lot of times we break up and
we realize there's not much out there, or we break
up and then we just miss someone, we miss the comfort,
and then we think, Okay, because we miss someone so much,
or because time has gone by, we can give it
another shot. And what happens is the same dynamic is
still there. And so unless two people come back as
(08:25):
internally different people, like if two people have to go
back and go on some kind of journey, return back
to the village, change, secondary change, change that's not reversible
unless that's happening a new haircut and time is not
going to set you up for another.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
At bad, especially in these types of relationships. What does
your partner need to know, if anything, about your process
and your goals as you try to move forward, whether
with them or without them.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to know as
much as someone is willing to disclose those about where
they're at in their internal journey. You know, to just
get back together with someone and cross fingers is not
going to work, So you have to start talking about
where you're at, what you've learned last time. I think
that's a huge one. What you're willing to take ownership
for right? If those kind of conversations aren't happening, what's
(09:17):
happening other than just you know, the same a copy
and paste John?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Why does some of us tend to attract the same partners,
especially people who aren't good for us.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Usually when you start doing internal work, you start growing, expanding,
redefining some things. I call it your love buds. Your
love buds are changing, you know, so we start who
we were attracted to. If that person was toxic, unhealthy,
if you've grown because your love buds have changed, or
now you're repelled by right, they could look exactly the same,
(09:52):
But the energy is dynamic, and so that's proof that
people are growing. And so a lot of times when
people are attracting the same person just a different face,
it's kind of proof that they have not gone on
an inner journey. They have not grown, they have not
looked inward. They're just you know, chasing after love.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Finally, divorce by basically every culture's metric, it's defined as
an end, it's defined as a failure, as many other things,
is defined negatively. What would you say about that?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
When someone says they're going through a divorce. Now I
try to say congratulations instead of I'm sorry. I think
we have made divorce like this horrific thing that stamps
salvage on our head or less than and it's not
for many people. I mean myself included all those difficult
divorces what gave me life, And for many people, divorce
(10:50):
is a huge blessing. It's amazing. It takes so much
courage to get divorced. So I think we need to
start changing the narrative and peeling the stigma divorce.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Part of the thing about divorce, too is that you
leave so much behind. It really does change your identity.
How do you start to rebuild your identity, particularly after divorce.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
You're right, a lot of people identify themselves as the
you know, the set, the marriage, the you know what
was happening in that relationship, the hat they wore. So
creating a new identity actually shows you what needed to
happen in the marriage, right, because in the marriage, two
people should have their own identity come together as a couple.
(11:31):
But if you've lost your identity, the chances are and
you've lost your sense of self, maybe you've lost your purpose.
You know, you've lost a lot of things. So getting
all that back, rebuilding your life, your sense of self,
making new friends, building your own new identity, that's the
north star. That's imperative.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
One of the great things I think about this book
is it gives you sort of a task. It gives
you a bunch of tasks after you you have a breakup.
Coping with breakups for so many people, you know, there's overreading,
they're sleeping, there's sleeping with strangers, whatever that might be.
Can you talk about briefly your thoughts about coping strategies.
Everybody might need some downtime, but when sometimes we get
into the weeds.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Yeah, I have a chapter in there saying that it's
okay to numb, and then I put in parentheses consciously
and yeah, there is a grace period where you can
feel sorry for yourself. You can watch Netflix in order
and be in pajamas and cry. I think that's okay.
You just can't stay there, you know. So you have
(12:31):
to be honest with yourself and know if you are
numbing consciously or if you are now you know, addicted
to this behavior or this pattern of feeling sorry for
yourself and just you know, not healing but it's okay.
I think to eat your feelings and do all the
things that we're being told you shouldn't do, as long
(12:53):
as that is not the norm, right, that doesn't become
your norm. That's just for a couple of weeks, a month.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Or two, and your final thoughts on how to reset
breakups and your idea of moving forward.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I don't think it happens with like a button. I
think a reset happens well first with the decision, but
I think it happens over time. Ultimately, the reset is
going to be a corrective love experience. A reset is
going to be proving to your body through new experiences
that there's something more or different that's honest to you
now today, you know so. I think it's the eclipsing
(13:31):
of an old experience through new experiences. Not to be romantic,
it could be friendships as well that starts to reset
you and your body.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Our guest is John Kim, Breakup on Purpose, Catalyst for Growth.
That's the new book, John Kim. Thank you for being
to get connected.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
This has been Get Connected with Nina del Rio on
one Io six point seven Light FM. The views and
opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the views
of the station. If you missed any part of our
show or want to share it, visit our website for
downloads and podcasts at one O six seven lightfm dot com.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to get Connected with Nina del Rio, a weekly
conversation about fitness, health and happenings in our community on
one oh six point seven light FM.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome and thanks for listening to get connected talking about
breakups for the next few minutes, which are difficult in
so many ways, but yet an opportunity to reset and
perhaps bounce back better. Our guest is John Kim, also
known as the Angry Therapist, and a best selling author
whose latest book is break Up on Purpose, a Catalyst
for Growth, where John identifies eight distinct types of breakups
(00:35):
with tailored approaches to healing for each situation. John Kim,
thank you for being on the show.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Thank you for having me and helping me create this dialogue.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
John Kim is a licensed marriage and family therapist based
in Los Angeles who blogs as the Angry Therapist. He
is the author of books including It's Not Me, It's
You and Single on Purpose. So this book, John, is
about recalibrating the meaning of breakups.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well, I always thought that you know, there isn't a
one fits all when it comes to healing from a breakup,
and that's because we go through different types of breakups.
And why hasn't anyone talked about all the different types
of breakups that we have gone through, because what's prescribed
will be different, you know, And so the book hangs on, yeah,
the eight different types of breakups that we all grow through,
turning your breakup into you know, breakthroughs.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
What made you start thinking about these patterns and the
different types of breakups? We'll talk about a few of
men a couple of minutes.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Working with my clients and seeing similarities and also realizing that,
for example, if one client went through a flat soda
breakup where it was mutual, that's very different than say
another client who was going through a blindsided breakup, which
may be a little more traumatic. And you know, what
(01:49):
is priority as far as how to heal is definitely
going to be different. And so I realized, oh, there's
different ways to heal all the different types of breakups.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
It's also interesting, I think, to talk about your path.
So your path to becoming a therapist started in fact,
as you write in the book, the greatest gift You've
ever received a divorce.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yes, the hardest thing I've gone through, but also the
greatest blessing. I mean, I wouldn't I wouldn't be in
front of you today if it wasn't for the divorce.
I got divorced at thirty five and had to start
all over, went back to school, became a therapist, and
that was the beginning for me. I spent five years
of a marriage where I didn't have much of a life.
(02:34):
I was miserable and didn't take much ownership. And so
the divorce forced me to start at the ground floor,
build a life for myself first before investing in anyone else.
And that was huge, It was foundational, was everything.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
That was about fifteen years ago. Some of us can
hang onto our breakups, as you know, for five years,
for fifteen years for more. Why do the after effects
of some breaks ups stay with us for long after?
Why do we never come to a comfort level perhaps
with very specific relationships.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Sure because the imprint of our body from that experience.
You know, I talk about the big one, right, the
first true love breakup. And the reason why that's a
power powerful is because it usually happens when we're younger
and our hearts are hard to know. It's our first imprint.
And you know, when you think about like high school,
everything is life or death, you know, and so a
(03:28):
lot of times we will play back old relationships, playing
the highlight reel and playing them back from who we were,
not who we are now, and so it's distorted and
we start tracing posters, creating fantasies, and we make decisions
based on this, and they're not always smart decisions.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Let's talk a little bit more about that. When the
first true love breakup, which is the first one you
talk about in the book about the different types in
the relationship that you use as an example, something happens
that can happen when we're older, but I definitely think
it happens when we're younger. One of us gives so
much to the other person, trying to do what we
think they will love, we kind of lose what we
(04:10):
want or need for ourselves.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, yeah, you know what it's like. It's like giving
giving your kid the keys to the Porsche. You know,
they just they're just gonna floor it and they don't
know how to drive the car. Well, they don't have
not put in enough reps to drive the car. They're
just going to go fast. And I think with young love,
(04:32):
because we have not learned about ourselves and tools and
things like you know, attachment styles and love languages, and
you know, how to repair ruptures. We just go by
what we feel. And usually what we feel, especially if
it's very potent, the lightning can actually be dysfunction. So
we are chasing, usually something unhealthy and then losing ourselves
(04:53):
in the process. And then we stamp that as love
or the one and now it's just a colliding of
two young kids who don't know better.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
So how do we get out of the regret of
that particular one, that first true love break up? However
long that regret lives with us.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah, I don't think we should regret because it's our
rite of passage. You know, we all have our one,
we all have the first imprints of love, and those
those early collisions actually aren't meant to last forever. They're
meant to kind of stepping stones for us to learn
about love. You know. It's kind of a crash course,
And I think that's how we let go of it
(05:32):
is to accept that that was meant to expire and
we were supposed to learn and grow from that relationship.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Our guest is John Kim. He's a licensed marriage and
family therapist based in LA with numerous books, This one
is break up on purpose a catalyst for growth. You're
listening to get connected on one oh six point seven
light FM. I'mna del rio. I'm going to jump ahead
a bit to the flat so to break up so
there's no ness, not necessarily a problem, and you're just
(06:00):
with someone because you're essentially too polite to break up.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
The flat soda breakup is when feelings have changed. It's
when people have not expressed where they're at in their
relationship and they're just together and you kind of become roommates,
you know. The flat soda breakup is when it's almost
you've drifted too far to turn back, Like almost a
relationship isn't fixable because you don't see the person that
way anymore. You know, it's almost too late. And I
(06:25):
think a lot of people they see in relationships because
they don't want to be alone, even if the relationship
isn't exciting and vibrant and everything they wanted to be,
they just kind of put up with the relationship. And
then it's you know when they wake up and you realize, oh,
I see this person more like a brother or sister.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
What work is there to do if everything to some
degree feels fine.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I think every relationship requires what they call it fanning
the flames or shoveling coal into the fire. I think
after the honeymoon stage, when things get real and you
start to see that the three sixty of a person
and you realize they're not perfect and things bother you
about them, that's when love actually really begins. And from
(07:11):
that point on, investing in a relationship is about date
nights and all the effort that it requires to keep
it going, keep the plane in the air.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Because of the flat soda breakup. And I think another
one in the book, it made me wonder, how do
you feel about arguments among couples in general? People who
don't argue. Sometimes when couples.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Come to me, they say, we never fight. I kind
of see that as a red flag. We're supposed to fight.
It's okay to fight. It's not about not fighting, it's
about how we fight. So the ability to repair rupture
is foundational. And if you don't know how to do that,
if two people don't know how to do that, it's
eventually the plane's going to go down.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
The breakup that never ends. Why are these so common?
Why do we try to save a relatetionationships again and again. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I think a lot of times we break up and
we realize there's not much out there, or we break
up and then we just miss someone, we miss the comfort,
and then we think, Okay, because we miss someone so much,
or because time has gone by, we can give it
another shot. And what happens is the same dynamic is
still there. And so unless two people come back as
(08:25):
internally different people, like if two people have to go
back and go on some kind of journey, return back
to the village, change, secondary change, change that's not reversible
unless that's happening a new haircut and time is not
going to set you up for another.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
At bad, especially in these types of relationships. What does
your partner need to know, if anything, about your process
and your goals as you try to move forward, whether
with them or without them.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to know as
much as someone is willing to disclose those about where
they're at in their internal journey. You know, to just
get back together with someone and cross fingers is not
going to work, So you have to start talking about
where you're at, what you've learned last time. I think
that's a huge one. What you're willing to take ownership
for right? If those kind of conversations aren't happening, what's
(09:17):
happening other than just you know, the same a copy
and paste John?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Why does some of us tend to attract the same partners,
especially people who aren't good for us.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Usually when you start doing internal work, you start growing, expanding,
redefining some things. I call it your love buds. Your
love buds are changing, you know, so we start who
we were attracted to. If that person was toxic, unhealthy,
if you've grown because your love buds have changed, or
now you're repelled by right, they could look exactly the same,
(09:52):
But the energy is dynamic, and so that's proof that
people are growing. And so a lot of times when
people are attracting the same person just a different face,
it's kind of proof that they have not gone on
an inner journey. They have not grown, they have not
looked inward. They're just you know, chasing after love.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Finally, divorce by basically every culture's metric, it's defined as
an end, it's defined as a failure, as many other things,
is defined negatively. What would you say about that?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
When someone says they're going through a divorce. Now I
try to say congratulations instead of I'm sorry. I think
we have made divorce like this horrific thing that stamps
salvage on our head or less than and it's not
for many people. I mean myself included all those difficult
divorces what gave me life, And for many people, divorce
(10:50):
is a huge blessing. It's amazing. It takes so much
courage to get divorced. So I think we need to
start changing the narrative and peeling the stigma divorce.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Part of the thing about divorce, too is that you
leave so much behind. It really does change your identity.
How do you start to rebuild your identity, particularly after divorce.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
You're right, a lot of people identify themselves as the
you know, the set, the marriage, the you know what
was happening in that relationship, the hat they wore. So
creating a new identity actually shows you what needed to
happen in the marriage, right, because in the marriage, two
people should have their own identity come together as a couple.
(11:31):
But if you've lost your identity, the chances are and
you've lost your sense of self, maybe you've lost your purpose.
You know, you've lost a lot of things. So getting
all that back, rebuilding your life, your sense of self,
making new friends, building your own new identity, that's the
north star. That's imperative.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
One of the great things I think about this book
is it gives you sort of a task. It gives
you a bunch of tasks after you you have a breakup.
Coping with breakups for so many people, you know, there's overreading,
they're sleeping, there's sleeping with strangers, whatever that might be.
Can you talk about briefly your thoughts about coping strategies.
Everybody might need some downtime, but when sometimes we get
into the weeds.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Yeah, I have a chapter in there saying that it's
okay to numb, and then I put in parentheses consciously
and yeah, there is a grace period where you can
feel sorry for yourself. You can watch Netflix in order
and be in pajamas and cry. I think that's okay.
You just can't stay there, you know. So you have
(12:31):
to be honest with yourself and know if you are
numbing consciously or if you are now you know, addicted
to this behavior or this pattern of feeling sorry for
yourself and just you know, not healing but it's okay.
I think to eat your feelings and do all the
things that we're being told you shouldn't do, as long
(12:53):
as that is not the norm, right, that doesn't become
your norm. That's just for a couple of weeks, a month.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Or two, and your final thoughts on how to reset
breakups and your idea of moving forward.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I don't think it happens with like a button. I
think a reset happens well first with the decision, but
I think it happens over time. Ultimately, the reset is
going to be a corrective love experience. A reset is
going to be proving to your body through new experiences
that there's something more or different that's honest to you
now today, you know so. I think it's the eclipsing
(13:31):
of an old experience through new experiences. Not to be romantic,
it could be friendships as well that starts to reset
you and your body.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Our guest is John Kim, Breakup on Purpose, Catalyst for Growth.
That's the new book, John Kim. Thank you for being
to get connected.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
This has been Get Connected with Nina del Rio on
one Io six point seven Light FM. The views and
opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the views
of the station. If you missed any part of our
show or want to share it, visit our website for
downloads and podcasts at one O six seven lightfm dot com.
Thanks for listening.
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