August 26, 2024 • 15 mins
Dr. Jocelynne Rainey is President and CEO of Brooklyn Org, making local philanthropy more accessible, democratic, and community driven. Each year, Brooklyn Org partners with area residents to invest more than $5 million in high-impact nonprofits advancing racial justice at every level across the borough. Our conversation tackles the racial disparity between leadership and the workforce in the human services sector. For more, visit Brooklyn.org.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Get Connected with Nina del Rio, a weekly
conversation about fitness, health and happenings in our community on
one oh six point seven Light FM.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thanks for listening to get connected and think about this.
White individuals hold most nonprofit CEO and board membership positions.
They make up eighty seven percent of CEOs and seventy
eight percent of board memberships. That's as of twenty nineteen. Meanwhile,
the human services sector they manage is largely composed of
women and people of color in New York. That's seventy
(00:35):
five percent of the sector, with women making up seventy
percent of the workforce. Glad to welcome back doctor Jocelyn Rainey,
she's President and CEO of Brooklyn Org. To talk about
the impact of this imbalance, this lack of diversity, and
the solutions she's been advocating for. Doctor Jocelyn Rainey, thank
you for being on the show.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
You can find out more at the website Brooklyn dot org.
Let's talk just a little bit about what you do
to sort of get a baseline of where you're coming from. So,
president and CEO of Brooklyn Org, a nonprofit that supports
other Brooklyn nonprofits through grant making and donor advised funds
addressing the current crises in the borough in Layman's terms,
(01:15):
can you give an example of what that might look
like with maybe a client that you've worked with.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, you know, I love that idea of telling a story.
I think that one of the things that I'm most
proud of is that we support smaller nonprofits in Brooklyn
that are focused on racial justice and undoing systemic and
structural racism. And that looks a lot of different ways
and ways to make families, help families to thrive, to
(01:42):
give people stability and opportunities, but also advocacy work and
organizing work as well to help people to be able
to stay in their homes, to make sure that young
people are getting the education that they need. I think
those recent story I have that I'm really excited about
is that we have our Spark Prize that we give
every year to five nonprofits one hundred thousand dollars, and
(02:06):
usually they're nonprofits that you know, we haven't worked with,
that have very small budgets, and one in particular was
sure we can and sure we can as a nonprofit
that works with people who are collecting cans, people that
we see every day and sometimes we you know, divert
our eyes, right because we feel like, you know what
(02:26):
of that poor person. They're like, they have to struggle
and collect cans, and this organization gives them power and
place and advocacy around this work that they do and
you know, stories around people who actually have put children
through college doing this work, you know, and so supporting
an organization that is tackling some of the biggest issues
(02:50):
that we have around racial justice and economic justice. I
truly believe there's no racial justice about economic justice. That
gives place and days two people who are in our
communities every single day and allows us to talk about them.
So that organization has a place where canners can leave
(03:12):
their cans, because you can't really redeem your cans until
you get a certain amount of cans, believe it or not,
which I didn't know. They give them warm water where
they can wash up and use the restroom they have.
They do organizing work with them as well, and so
it is a organization one of many we support over
(03:34):
one hundred nonprofits every year that we support that is
doing that work that we may be blind to as
Brooklyn Knights and New Yorkers.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I love that idea of what they do. I'm going
to have to get them on the show at some point.
I'd love to talk to them about their organization. So
I want to restate the intro because the numbers are notable. So,
the vast majority of the people who hold nonprofit CEO
and board membership is about eighty to seventy eight percent,
depending who we talk about, are white individuals. Meanwhile, the
(04:05):
people doing the work in the human services sector are
mostly women and people of color seventy five percent. Again,
the vast majority in New York seventy five percent. Do
you find that to be true? Again, you said you
work with hundreds of nonprofits. Do you find that to
be true or does the data support that that is
also true for even nonprofits focused on women of color
(04:26):
people of color?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
You know, I think that is true across the board.
I think there's been a real effort to try to
change that. But I will say that that has not
been the case yet. I think, especially when we're talking
about board leadership, because you know, board leadership requires that
you have to have some level of economic stability in
(04:48):
order to support these nonprofits. Right, nonprofits need money to
do their work, so you kind of lean towards people
who have more power and privilege, who have you know,
who have had better outcomes in the labor market, right
to be in those roles. And I think in the
for profit sector, even though there's been a nonprofit sector
as far as leadership, even though there's been some movement
in some work, what I will say is that the largest,
(05:10):
most significant nonprofits in Brooklyn and throughout New York are
run by white men and white women primarily, and there's
fewer black women in those roles. So yes, I think
that is still very true. And also, you know, when
an organization is taken over by a black leader, oftentimes
they lose up to thirty percent of their funding at
(05:33):
that moment. So there's also an issue around trust and
leadership and funding work that is being led by a
black leader.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
It's interesting because the people on the board these boards,
if even if they're white, they obviously are there because
they want to do some good, They want to be
a contribute, they want to do the right thing. But
perhaps there's again maybe there's a disconnect. I mean, what
other effect does that have on the sector, or disconnect
on what kind of projects you want to fund or
(06:04):
who you want to bring in.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, I think that that imbalance And just going back
to the number that I didn't address that you talked about,
is that it's seventy five percent the workers who are
doing the nonprofit work or seventy five percent black and
brown people right that are actually in the work, and
women in particularly women are throughout this industry or this
sector doing the work at a much higher percentage than
(06:30):
other genders or other groups. What I will say about that,
these are also the people that we're serving, right, Like,
they know their community and it's so important that they're
doing this work because of the fact that they are
very knowledgeable about the community they're serving. You know, there's
a nonprofit that I'm really proud of that we support
(06:51):
called alex House there and their CEO, Samora and founder.
You know, she's from the community that she supports. She
was single mother and she created an outstanding nonprofit that
focuses on other single mothers and helping them to be
able to have meaningful employment as well. So we need
(07:12):
those kinds of We need those kinds of people in
these roles that are actually knowledgeable about you know about
the people that they're serving, that feel part of the community,
can be empathetic and can make sure that they're like
meeting them where they are and doing the work from
a from a perspective of knowing right. But the problem
(07:34):
is that these roles are underpaid, right, and they're and
they're difficult to have a succession or a plan to
move up because the leadership roles are not primarily held
by women, are people of color, so they leave the
sector because they're not able to make the living that
(07:54):
they need in order to survive. So we lose all
of that knowledge and you know, the people that are
closest to the people that were actually serving as well,
So that's also that's also an issue as well.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Our guest is doctor Jocelyn Rainey. She's president and CEO
of Brooklyn Org, making local philanthropy more accessible, democratic, and
community driven. Each year, Brooklyn Org partners with Brooklyn residents
to invest more than five million dollars in high impact
nonprofits advancing racial justice at every level through the borough.
Their website is Brooklyn dot org. You're listening to get
(08:29):
connected on one O six point seven let FM. I'm
Nina del Rio. You mentioned I want to make sure
I heard this right too. When you do have people
of color on boards, they lose thirty percent of their funding,
if you if I remember that correctly, what is that
attribution to.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, when you when you when you have black leadership,
and I'm talking to the CEO, the executive director level also,
I think that's a good point board members as well, right,
because when you think about where the majority of wealth
is in our city, in our country, right, we're looking
at black people having zero wealth, and I think twenty
(09:07):
fifty three are a number close to there having zero wealth.
So even though there seems to be more black wealth
today than there was many years ago, it's still not
going to change that outcome. Right, So the folks that
we're putting on boards don't have the same capacity as
some of the white leadership, because you see that, so
(09:28):
you can see that being an issue as well. But
the reality is that when there's a black leader who
comes on board, they don't have the same networks. It's
harder for them to build those relationships. And there's also
like the trust factor. I mean, we've been today all
this rhetoric around DEI hires, like it's just the most
interesting thing that you know, we're saying that DEI is
(09:51):
now synonymous with being less qualified, when in fact DEI
is about bringing diversity an equity for all organizations and
building and binding qualified applicants in other places where you
normally would that look outside of your your own networks. Right,
(10:12):
so we know that people have gotten you know, the
majority of positions are acquired by relationships. My research is
on that's true, right, Like people hire people they feel
comfortable with people they know, and so if you're not
in that network, you're not going to you're not going
to be able to you're not going to get the
same opportunities. So what that means is that DEI is
(10:35):
actually an opportunity for people to look at this differently,
go outside of their networks and try to bring diversity
into the organization. So there's also this idea that black
leadership is like a quota meeting instead of like the
idea that this person is competent and that they can
(10:58):
do this role and they have all the qualifications that
I need in order to do this. It's like this
immediate idea of incompetence. So there's like this from my
conversations with other leaders this idea of always having to prove,
you know, the proof that I can actually work, and
we're play out across the country, especially with this and
(11:18):
you know, this election that's happening right now, this national election.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
There's a really interesting there's so many interesting conversations coming
out of that. Of course, the DEI conversation. There's one
data point I remember from this election cycle. Prior to
the current president's decision not to run, they were speculating
on who might run should he not, and they were
saying minority women might be more likely to vote for
the current presumed black female nominee. White men would be
(11:45):
less likely to vote. And my estimation would be because
perhaps many white men haven't had the experience of seeing
a black female figurehead. There's something about that to them
that is like they're trepidacious about it, or or you know,
they're running away from it rather than trying to lean
into it. I don't know your thoughts on that.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
You know, I love that you say that, because I
always try to think about this work or approach this
work from a position of everybody wants to do the
right thing right, Like I don't think that everything is
mired and racism right, But some of it is just
like where I feel comfortable, you know, what I see
in as leadership, representation matters on both ends. I always
(12:26):
say that I try to show up as much as
my authentic self, with my bright blue glasses that you
see today or you know, my curly hair, so that
when people see other people that look like me, if
they believe that I'm competent, they might believe that that
next person is competent. So I think that your point
is a very good point. That it's also because we
(12:47):
don't see it. So if you don't see it, it's
difficult to believe that it can work or that it
will be true. And I think if we approach things
from that perspective, when we think about how we do
this work across the board of you know, making more
opportunities for other people and for people who don't look
like us, who don't you know, who aren't who aren't
(13:08):
in our networks, that we think about it from a
position of we don't want to leave talent on the table,
so you know, we end up in a world where
we don't have enough talent to do certain roles tech leadership. This,
so we if we try to approach it from the
position of everyone who has an opportunity, if they have
the credentials, and we'll give them that opportunity and be
(13:31):
completely open to what that opportunity looks like, maybe we
will have less of that feeling uncomfortable, you know, hiring
or voting for someone who doesn't look like us if
they can do the job.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
We only have a couple of minutes left. I have
so many other questions, but I would just ask I
guess to wrap You know, as someone who has been
a CEO and a president, you have so many years
of experience in leadership positions. What would be your advice
for people in those roles already to sort of keep
this moving forward.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I think one thing is that you know, when you
do sit at the table, you need to sit at
the table again as your authentic self, right like fully
and being comfortable having these conversations. Look at people from
the perspective of like teaching and learning, instead of looking
at it from the perspective of, you know, the person
doesn't want you to succeed. Now, that could be true,
(14:22):
but if you look at it from a position of
I'm going to teach and I'm also going to learn.
Then I think there's going to be more opportunities for
us for us to be able to I mean as
a whole, as a whole, not just one side, but
for us to be able to think about how do
we bring more different perspectives and more diversity that will
(14:43):
actually help our businesses but also our nonprofits and our
neighbors and help them to do better if we trust
that other people can do the work because they have
the ability to do it.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Our guest is doctor Jocelyn Rainey, President and CEO of
Brooklyn Org. Their website is Brooklyn dot org. Thank you
for being on Get Connected.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
This has been Get Connected with Nina del Rio on
one oh six point seven light Fm. The views and
opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the views
of the station. If you missed any part of our
show or want to share it, visit our website for
downloads and podcasts at one O six to seven lightfm
dot com. Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Get Connected with Nina del Rio, a weekly
conversation about fitness, health and happenings in our community on
one oh six point seven Light FM.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thanks for listening to get connected and think about this.
White individuals hold most nonprofit CEO and board membership positions.
They make up eighty seven percent of CEOs and seventy
eight percent of board memberships. That's as of twenty nineteen. Meanwhile,
the human services sector they manage is largely composed of
women and people of color in New York. That's seventy
(00:35):
five percent of the sector, with women making up seventy
percent of the workforce. Glad to welcome back doctor Jocelyn Rainey,
she's President and CEO of Brooklyn Org. To talk about
the impact of this imbalance, this lack of diversity, and
the solutions she's been advocating for. Doctor Jocelyn Rainey, thank
you for being on the show.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
You can find out more at the website Brooklyn dot org.
Let's talk just a little bit about what you do
to sort of get a baseline of where you're coming from. So,
president and CEO of Brooklyn Org, a nonprofit that supports
other Brooklyn nonprofits through grant making and donor advised funds
addressing the current crises in the borough in Layman's terms,
(01:15):
can you give an example of what that might look
like with maybe a client that you've worked with.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, you know, I love that idea of telling a story.
I think that one of the things that I'm most
proud of is that we support smaller nonprofits in Brooklyn
that are focused on racial justice and undoing systemic and
structural racism. And that looks a lot of different ways
and ways to make families, help families to thrive, to
(01:42):
give people stability and opportunities, but also advocacy work and
organizing work as well to help people to be able
to stay in their homes, to make sure that young
people are getting the education that they need. I think
those recent story I have that I'm really excited about
is that we have our Spark Prize that we give
every year to five nonprofits one hundred thousand dollars, and
(02:06):
usually they're nonprofits that you know, we haven't worked with,
that have very small budgets, and one in particular was
sure we can and sure we can as a nonprofit
that works with people who are collecting cans, people that
we see every day and sometimes we you know, divert
our eyes, right because we feel like, you know what
(02:26):
of that poor person. They're like, they have to struggle
and collect cans, and this organization gives them power and
place and advocacy around this work that they do and
you know, stories around people who actually have put children
through college doing this work, you know, and so supporting
an organization that is tackling some of the biggest issues
(02:50):
that we have around racial justice and economic justice. I
truly believe there's no racial justice about economic justice. That
gives place and days two people who are in our
communities every single day and allows us to talk about them.
So that organization has a place where canners can leave
(03:12):
their cans, because you can't really redeem your cans until
you get a certain amount of cans, believe it or not,
which I didn't know. They give them warm water where
they can wash up and use the restroom they have.
They do organizing work with them as well, and so
it is a organization one of many we support over
(03:34):
one hundred nonprofits every year that we support that is
doing that work that we may be blind to as
Brooklyn Knights and New Yorkers.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I love that idea of what they do. I'm going
to have to get them on the show at some point.
I'd love to talk to them about their organization. So
I want to restate the intro because the numbers are notable. So,
the vast majority of the people who hold nonprofit CEO
and board membership is about eighty to seventy eight percent,
depending who we talk about, are white individuals. Meanwhile, the
(04:05):
people doing the work in the human services sector are
mostly women and people of color seventy five percent. Again,
the vast majority in New York seventy five percent. Do
you find that to be true? Again, you said you
work with hundreds of nonprofits. Do you find that to
be true or does the data support that that is
also true for even nonprofits focused on women of color
(04:26):
people of color?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
You know, I think that is true across the board.
I think there's been a real effort to try to
change that. But I will say that that has not
been the case yet. I think, especially when we're talking
about board leadership, because you know, board leadership requires that
you have to have some level of economic stability in
(04:48):
order to support these nonprofits. Right, nonprofits need money to
do their work, so you kind of lean towards people
who have more power and privilege, who have you know,
who have had better outcomes in the labor market, right
to be in those roles. And I think in the
for profit sector, even though there's been a nonprofit sector
as far as leadership, even though there's been some movement
in some work, what I will say is that the largest,
(05:10):
most significant nonprofits in Brooklyn and throughout New York are
run by white men and white women primarily, and there's
fewer black women in those roles. So yes, I think
that is still very true. And also, you know, when
an organization is taken over by a black leader, oftentimes
they lose up to thirty percent of their funding at
(05:33):
that moment. So there's also an issue around trust and
leadership and funding work that is being led by a
black leader.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
It's interesting because the people on the board these boards,
if even if they're white, they obviously are there because
they want to do some good, They want to be
a contribute, they want to do the right thing. But
perhaps there's again maybe there's a disconnect. I mean, what
other effect does that have on the sector, or disconnect
on what kind of projects you want to fund or
(06:04):
who you want to bring in.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, I think that that imbalance And just going back
to the number that I didn't address that you talked about,
is that it's seventy five percent the workers who are
doing the nonprofit work or seventy five percent black and
brown people right that are actually in the work, and
women in particularly women are throughout this industry or this
sector doing the work at a much higher percentage than
(06:30):
other genders or other groups. What I will say about that,
these are also the people that we're serving, right, Like,
they know their community and it's so important that they're
doing this work because of the fact that they are
very knowledgeable about the community they're serving. You know, there's
a nonprofit that I'm really proud of that we support
(06:51):
called alex House there and their CEO, Samora and founder.
You know, she's from the community that she supports. She
was single mother and she created an outstanding nonprofit that
focuses on other single mothers and helping them to be
able to have meaningful employment as well. So we need
(07:12):
those kinds of We need those kinds of people in
these roles that are actually knowledgeable about you know about
the people that they're serving, that feel part of the community,
can be empathetic and can make sure that they're like
meeting them where they are and doing the work from
a from a perspective of knowing right. But the problem
(07:34):
is that these roles are underpaid, right, and they're and
they're difficult to have a succession or a plan to
move up because the leadership roles are not primarily held
by women, are people of color, so they leave the
sector because they're not able to make the living that
(07:54):
they need in order to survive. So we lose all
of that knowledge and you know, the people that are
closest to the people that were actually serving as well,
So that's also that's also an issue as well.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Our guest is doctor Jocelyn Rainey. She's president and CEO
of Brooklyn Org, making local philanthropy more accessible, democratic, and
community driven. Each year, Brooklyn Org partners with Brooklyn residents
to invest more than five million dollars in high impact
nonprofits advancing racial justice at every level through the borough.
Their website is Brooklyn dot org. You're listening to get
(08:29):
connected on one O six point seven let FM. I'm
Nina del Rio. You mentioned I want to make sure
I heard this right too. When you do have people
of color on boards, they lose thirty percent of their funding,
if you if I remember that correctly, what is that
attribution to.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, when you when you when you have black leadership,
and I'm talking to the CEO, the executive director level also,
I think that's a good point board members as well, right,
because when you think about where the majority of wealth
is in our city, in our country, right, we're looking
at black people having zero wealth, and I think twenty
(09:07):
fifty three are a number close to there having zero wealth.
So even though there seems to be more black wealth
today than there was many years ago, it's still not
going to change that outcome. Right, So the folks that
we're putting on boards don't have the same capacity as
some of the white leadership, because you see that, so
(09:28):
you can see that being an issue as well. But
the reality is that when there's a black leader who
comes on board, they don't have the same networks. It's
harder for them to build those relationships. And there's also
like the trust factor. I mean, we've been today all
this rhetoric around DEI hires, like it's just the most
interesting thing that you know, we're saying that DEI is
(09:51):
now synonymous with being less qualified, when in fact DEI
is about bringing diversity an equity for all organizations and
building and binding qualified applicants in other places where you
normally would that look outside of your your own networks. Right,
(10:12):
so we know that people have gotten you know, the
majority of positions are acquired by relationships. My research is
on that's true, right, Like people hire people they feel
comfortable with people they know, and so if you're not
in that network, you're not going to you're not going
to be able to you're not going to get the
same opportunities. So what that means is that DEI is
(10:35):
actually an opportunity for people to look at this differently,
go outside of their networks and try to bring diversity
into the organization. So there's also this idea that black
leadership is like a quota meeting instead of like the
idea that this person is competent and that they can
(10:58):
do this role and they have all the qualifications that
I need in order to do this. It's like this
immediate idea of incompetence. So there's like this from my
conversations with other leaders this idea of always having to prove,
you know, the proof that I can actually work, and
we're play out across the country, especially with this and
(11:18):
you know, this election that's happening right now, this national election.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
There's a really interesting there's so many interesting conversations coming
out of that. Of course, the DEI conversation. There's one
data point I remember from this election cycle. Prior to
the current president's decision not to run, they were speculating
on who might run should he not, and they were
saying minority women might be more likely to vote for
the current presumed black female nominee. White men would be
(11:45):
less likely to vote. And my estimation would be because
perhaps many white men haven't had the experience of seeing
a black female figurehead. There's something about that to them
that is like they're trepidacious about it, or or you know,
they're running away from it rather than trying to lean
into it. I don't know your thoughts on that.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
You know, I love that you say that, because I
always try to think about this work or approach this
work from a position of everybody wants to do the
right thing right, Like I don't think that everything is
mired and racism right, But some of it is just
like where I feel comfortable, you know, what I see
in as leadership, representation matters on both ends. I always
(12:26):
say that I try to show up as much as
my authentic self, with my bright blue glasses that you
see today or you know, my curly hair, so that
when people see other people that look like me, if
they believe that I'm competent, they might believe that that
next person is competent. So I think that your point
is a very good point. That it's also because we
(12:47):
don't see it. So if you don't see it, it's
difficult to believe that it can work or that it
will be true. And I think if we approach things
from that perspective, when we think about how we do
this work across the board of you know, making more
opportunities for other people and for people who don't look
like us, who don't you know, who aren't who aren't
(13:08):
in our networks, that we think about it from a
position of we don't want to leave talent on the table,
so you know, we end up in a world where
we don't have enough talent to do certain roles tech leadership. This,
so we if we try to approach it from the
position of everyone who has an opportunity, if they have
the credentials, and we'll give them that opportunity and be
(13:31):
completely open to what that opportunity looks like, maybe we
will have less of that feeling uncomfortable, you know, hiring
or voting for someone who doesn't look like us if
they can do the job.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
We only have a couple of minutes left. I have
so many other questions, but I would just ask I
guess to wrap You know, as someone who has been
a CEO and a president, you have so many years
of experience in leadership positions. What would be your advice
for people in those roles already to sort of keep
this moving forward.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I think one thing is that you know, when you
do sit at the table, you need to sit at
the table again as your authentic self, right like fully
and being comfortable having these conversations. Look at people from
the perspective of like teaching and learning, instead of looking
at it from the perspective of, you know, the person
doesn't want you to succeed. Now, that could be true,
(14:22):
but if you look at it from a position of
I'm going to teach and I'm also going to learn.
Then I think there's going to be more opportunities for
us for us to be able to I mean as
a whole, as a whole, not just one side, but
for us to be able to think about how do
we bring more different perspectives and more diversity that will
(14:43):
actually help our businesses but also our nonprofits and our
neighbors and help them to do better if we trust
that other people can do the work because they have
the ability to do it.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Our guest is doctor Jocelyn Rainey, President and CEO of
Brooklyn Org. Their website is Brooklyn dot org. Thank you
for being on Get Connected.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
This has been Get Connected with Nina del Rio on
one oh six point seven light Fm. The views and
opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the views
of the station. If you missed any part of our
show or want to share it, visit our website for
downloads and podcasts at one O six to seven lightfm
dot com. Thanks for listening.
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