NYC's Director of Rodent Mitigation, Kathleen Corradi, A.K.A. The Rat Czar

Our guest is New York City’s recently appointed Director of Rodent Mitigation, Kathleen Corradi. Her work on reducing the City's rat population is a blend of biology, ecology, and psychology aimed at improving the quality of life for New Yorkers. Find out more about rats, including prevention best-practices and free training at nyc.gov/rats.

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Welcome to Get Connected with Nina delRio, a weekly conversation about fitness,
health and happenings in our community onone oh six point seven light FM.
Good morning, and thanks for listeningto Get Connected. New York City famous
for so many things, and indeedinfamous for a whole lot of things too,
including rats. Our guest is NewYork City's recently appointed and first rat

(00:27):
Czar, Kathleen Karate. Official titleNew York City's Director of Rodent Mitigation.
Kathleen Karate, Welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me,
Nina. A pleasure to be hereand honor to serve in this role for
our great city. You can findout more about rats in the city,
including prevention and training, on theNYC dot gov site under health topics.

(00:48):
So, Kathleen, everybody has astory about rats in the city. Maybe
one running over their foot, there'sone in a garbage bag. They weren't
expecting. You actually have been fightingrats since you were a kid. Yes,
So my first kind of parley intothis world was as a child.
We Our house was budding a railroadproperty and it had overgrown weeds, and

(01:11):
that is ideal conditions for rats tolive. Rats love. They are evolved
to burrow in earth, that istheir preferred habitat. So with the encouragement
of my mother, I went aroundto neighbors with a petition to get some
direct action taken to make sure wecould remove that harborridge condition and reduce our

(01:32):
rats. So rats don't exist ina vacuum. We have many, many
of them in this city, butthey're not just here to be here.
Why are rats so ever present?What are they a symptom of Nina?
Thank you so much for that freezingit that way. You know, I
think it's often seen rats are thisyou know, scorged, this pest that

(01:53):
you know came about from you know, unknown reasons. But the science is
very clear. Rats exist where thereis a food source. So in our
great city, that food source typicallyis human garbage, human waste. And
what we've seen for now going onclose to fifty years in the use of
plastic bags is unfettered access to afood source for rats, which is allowed

(02:20):
for you know, an ideal environmentfor them to proliferate, and you know,
in a way take the narrative awayfrom our city. And what we're
doing now is try to take thatnarrative back take dedicated actions both from the
city area, changing how we managewaste, changing our approach to rat mitigation
across the city, and then bringingpartnership with New Yorkers to say we need

(02:40):
you. We cannot do this workalone, so we will talk in detail
about prevention strategies cans versus bags.But going back to just something you said,
rats actually less bad in the cityat a certain time. Yes,
when we had steel cans, youknow, with lids, also underscore arbridge
was different. Garbage has changed.The composition and volume have changed, so

(03:04):
you know what the advent of onlineshopping and you know, more consumables,
we see higher volumes of ways morechallenging to manage. But when garbage was
containerized in steel cans with lids,less access less food, less rats and
the pandemic exacerbated the problem. Yes, absolutely, First and foremost rats are
mammals, so they're like us.If their food source dries up, they

(03:28):
will go looking for a new placeto eat. So when we as humans
shifted our behaviors during COVID and workfrom home, I worked down at Civic
Center, a lot of government buildingsdown here. When we switched to not
being in person. Rats food sourcesdrive up and they went looking for greener
pastures. You can say, soonto the plan, what is, Kathleen,

(03:52):
the overall strategy for residents, forbusinesses, for the city for attacking
this problem, if you could sumit up. First, identify where our
biggest areas are and that's we're workingwith integrated pest management. That's approach we're
taking as a city to understand whereour areas are and then take dedicated steps
to cut off their food source.It's a huge part of this puzzle.

(04:13):
Identify, cut off their food sourceand then work collectively to make sure we're
all taking dedicated steps in the rightdirections. They say, one bad apple
spoils a bunch when it comes torats. If there is an area,
one property in a block that's havingtrouble, it can cause an issue for
the wold block. So we're reallytrying to build that coalition and connection across

(04:33):
our city agencies, then across allNew Yorkers and private property owners as well.
Our guest is Kathleen Karate. Shebegan her career as an elementary teacher
in Central Brooklyn and was program leadat Brooklyn Botanic Garden at the Doees Office
of Sustainability. Kathleen Karate developed NewYork City Zero wate Schools program, and

(04:54):
she is currently New York City's Directorof Rodent Mitigation. You can find out
more about the topic on the nycdot gov website under health Topics. You're
listening to get connected on one Osix point seven light FM. I Mina
del Rio And as I understand thatthis program began with the Harlem rat Mitigation
Zone, the first part of thecity to be attended to, and nearly

(05:15):
a year after the program has begun, what were the first things you looked
at and how's it going. Yeah, So the Harlem rat Mitigation Zone is
the newest of actually four rat mitigationzones we have across the city, and
there are areas we're targeting because theyhave a historic concentration of rat burden.
So rats are across much of thecity, but we know where there's the

(05:36):
heaviest rap burden and that's where we'vebeen focusing efforts to make sure, you
know, we're attacking where the biggestproblem is and getting to try out different
interventions there to see what we cantake citywide. So we look at multiple
things through one complaints, Department ofHealth, inspection information and how we tackle
as we work with city agencies tomake sure you know we're doing it right,

(05:58):
we're being efficient, we're taking theright steps to mitigate rats. And
then we work with private property ownersin the rat mitigation zones. Department of
Health does twice a year inspections onevery single property, so we have a
wealth of information about where the ratsare, where their conditions are. Then
we work with those private property ownersto remedy the issues we're seeing on their

(06:18):
sites. So regarding garbage bags versusgarbage cans, what are residents being asked
to do? So there is awhole playbook to get our city to containerization,
no more garbage bags on the streets. And for the garbage officionados listening,
you could check that out on Departmentof Sanitation's website, a whole report

(06:40):
ninety nine pages. I think itis of how we get there in our
diverse and complex city. You know, less dense areas and queens will not
have the same approach as the densitywe see in Harlem, So there's a
multitude of approaches. We're taking.What we have on the books right now,
is commercial establishments, food establishments,and chain stores are required to put

(07:02):
their garbage in containers with lids.By March, that will be all commercial
establishments required to containerize their waste.We're piloting large street scale containers up in
Harlem to see how this works inour higher density areas. And then there's
ad code coming that's been announced forone through nine residential units, so kind

(07:25):
of our smaller apartment buildings, oursingle family homes, about using a new
New York City garbage bin that willbe uniformed that we know will help keep
rats out and make sure our operationsare nice and tight. When we talked
about removing waste from our city,someone listening, of course, is wondering
what is this going to cost?Do residents have to pay for the bins?
So the bins, the one throughnine residential bins will be for purchase

(07:48):
by property owners, but the cityis entered into an agreement proposal out there
to ensure we have the lowest pipeprice possible for those bins. We want
this to be accessible, We needthis to work. So the city's working
hand in hand to make sure NewYorkers can access this and do it with
fidelity. So I am someone whocomes to work often at a time of

(08:09):
day when the streets are empty andnot a lot of people, So there
are a lot of rats out,and I know not to walk by a
pile of garbage bags on the streetbecause one will run over your foot.
Are we actually moving to a timewhere there will be no bags allowed across
the city for food waste? Yeah, and Nina, that is exactly the
hope that New Yorkers don't have thatexperience anymore, that we you know,

(08:33):
we unlearn those behaviors we've done forso many years. We're getting bags off
with the containerization rules. We haveorganics. That's curbside composting expanding citywide,
largest easiest to use way to getfood out of garbage bags and into secure
composting. It's better for the environment, it's better for our city. It's
worse for rats. So yes,that is the path forward, less garbage,

(08:56):
less ratch, better understanding, bettercollective awareness, and all New Yorkers,
you know, rather than having tocross the street because they see a
garbage bag, they'll have the ownershipknowing I'm doing my part. So we
have less rats in our city.So I know, because of your background,
Kathleen, you've worked in community gardensas well. Community gardens can be

(09:16):
very dicey. Anyone who has agarden or a yard or an open space
around their house, what should theybe thinking about get rid of that food.
If there's a place where rats caneat, they're gonna set up shop.
Rats typically like to stay one hundredto one hundred and fifty feet from
their food source. So if there'sa rat burrowing in your earthen surface,

(09:39):
it means they're feeding nearby. Soif that's on your property, make sure
that waste gets contained. If it'spotentially a neighboring property, have those conversations.
We have health doing inspections, wehave the new policies changing from sanitation,
but we know New Yorkers are thebest holding each other accountable, bringing
that collective consciousness. The other pieceI'll say is clutter is perfect habitat for

(10:03):
rat. I know, I liketo, you know, hold onto things
because I might be able to usethis later, And I'm all about that
sustainability mindset, but thinking about howits manage is really important. Because you
have pipes, you know, layingon the ground. Rats will use that
as a pathway or a place tocreate a home, and water sources are
part of that too. Absolutely,water is always something you should be mindful

(10:26):
of for rats and other vectors.Standing water is not something we want to
see across the city for many reasons, rats being just one of them.
I have read the city has actuallyinstalled movement sensors on city streets to monitor
rat behavior. I'm wondering what hasthe city discovered. Is there anything new
or useful you've learned, or anythingparticular about New York City rats? Yeah,

(10:50):
that's Department of Health is doing somepiloting around sensors for rats, really
trying to figure out if we coulddo more with the monitor. So nothing
that I can share yet, wewant to make sure it's all to you
know, full scientific standard. We'rereally trying to take a scientific approach to
this. Rats and pests are ripewith rumors, right, Someone hears rats

(11:11):
have no bones, mice have nobones, and then that's what people think
is truth. So we want tohold up the most scientific standards when we're
communicating findings. We feel secure inwhat they are. But it's very exciting
work, you know, How dowe measure and understand the unseen in a
lot of ways. And it's interestingbecause I think some people would find this

(11:33):
job odious or you know, havingto look into the lives of rats kind
of creepy. But I actually thinkit's kind of fascinating and I can tell
you are fascinated by it too.It's a little bit of science, a
little bit of nature, it's alot of things, absolutely, And that's
you know, the draw for meis I love this city, you know,
so how do we make this citybetter today, tomorrow and forever.

(11:54):
You know, my background sustainability,and that's why I said, you know,
you can always weave sustainability into theconver station. Rats are the same
to me. It's a beautiful complexproblem of biology, ecology, psychology,
you know, our built environment.Whatever you're interested in, I guarantee I
can bring it back to rats andyou know, and bring you into the
conversation. And that's what I'm tryingto do, turn our fear and fascination

(12:18):
into action, into empowerment because Ithink for too long we've crossed the street
because we don't want to, youknow, walk near a bag of garbage.
And the goal is that to changeforever in our great city, one
other thing I wanted to ask.I know a lot of people are concerned
about other wildlife, pets, kids, water, even to what extent is

(12:39):
poison being used. Rodenticide is oneof the tools in our toolkit for managing
rat populations. Whenever the city isapplying rodenticide, it's done in a deliberate
by the law and by a licensedexterminator. We also report on all of
that data as well. There's highaccountability when the city is using rodenticide,

(13:03):
but it's one tool in our toolkit. Really, what we're working on is
those front end equation pieces that we'removing the harborridge conditions where they're living,
taking away the food source, becauseexterminating won't get us out of this problem,
so we have to focus on thoseunderlying conditions. The city also deploys
a number of non rodenticide techniques forextermination. Our Parks department is one of

(13:30):
the first. They piloted the useof a machine that off gases carbon monoxide
to exterminate rats and that has nosecondary consequences. We use that in our
parks when it's raptor nesting season tomake sure that we're not doing any secondary
effects to our raptors in our city, our burths of prey. Let's mention
too that on the New York CityHealth Department website there are rat prevention and

(13:54):
rat Academy trainings for property owners,community gardeners, business owners. Because it's
going to help from everybody. AbsolutelyYes. NYC dot gov slash rats has
everything you could want to know aboutrats, what the Health Department is doing,
better education, better information. Youcan actually also look up property level

(14:15):
inspection data to see when health Lessinspected a property and what their findings were,
so, you know, it's agreat way to check up on the
three and one complete you might haveput in about you know, rats on
your block. It's a great wayto see what the rat burden is in
your neighborhood, you know, andreally get the right information to join the
conversation. I know someone is goingto go look at that right now.

(14:35):
Thank you, Kathleen, it's sonice to speak with you. Kathleen Karate
is the city's director of Rodent Mitigation, colloquially the ratzre. Thank you for
being on Get Connected, Nina,was a pleasure. This has been Get
Connected with Nina del Rio on oneIo six point seven Light FM. The
views and opinions of our guests donot necessarily reflect the views of the station.

(14:58):
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