June 9, 2025 • 14 mins
The New York Alliance Against Insurance Fraud exists to educate everyone about different types of insurance fraud—from medical fraud to workers comp fraud—and it’s enormous cost to every New Yorker. This year, our conversation with Frank Stzuk centers on rear-end accident scams. For more, visit FRAUDNY.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Get Connected with Nina del Rio, a weekly
conversation about fitness, health and happenings in our community on
one oh six point seven Light FM.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome, thanks for listening to get connected. Maybe you didn't
know or have never thought about it, but insurance fraud
costs you about nine hundred and twenty dollars per year.
It costs every New Yorker about nine hundred twenty dollars
per year. I am pleased to welcome Frank Stoock back
to the show representing the New York Alliance Against Insurance Fraud.
(00:36):
It is an annual conversation and going back in time, Frank,
you were also a New Jersey police officer. You were
just saying, where did you work?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Morris Township, New Jersey, which is near Morristown.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, I know it well. I live in Essex County.
It's on my train line. So the New York Alliance
Against Insurance Fraud, it exists to educate everyone about different
types of fraud. And in the past we've had really
interesting conversations on the show about workers comp fraud, cyber fraud,
home repair scams, and there's a theme every year. For
(01:10):
the next few minutes, we'll talk about this year's theme,
which is an accident scam that's kind of scary and
also growing in prevalence. You can find out more at
fraudanwy dot com and frank All these scams, this one,
the accident scam, and the ones we've talked about in
the past and more on your website, they all add
up to that nine hundred and twenty dollars you're talking about,
(01:31):
which is baked into everything, not just the cost of insurance.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Right, So that nine hundred and twenty dollars number that
we talk about in New York, when you look at that,
take an average family of say, mother, father, to kids.
That's thirty six hundred and eighty dollars a year that
these people can ill afford to just waste away because
of insurance fraud. So it really does impact everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
So the reason then we have these conversations every year,
what does your organization, the New York Alliance Against Insurance
Fraud want people to understand about the scope of insurance fraud.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
So when we look at it, everyone gets burned by fraud.
The whole idea is to get people to understand the
overall impact of insurance fraud. On each of our daily lives.
You know the I mean it certainly when you look
at it from the perspective of cost of insurance. You know,
your insurance bill is that much more expensive because people
are gaming this system. I mean, something as simple as
(02:32):
the cost of your cup of coffee in the morning,
that cup of coffee in the morning is a little
more expensive because of insurance fraud, because every business has
to have insurance, and every business who has insurance has
to pay a little bit of money to cover the
losses from insurance fraud. So it really is impacting. So
(02:53):
when we talk about everyone getting burned, it truly is
an element that everybody has to understand that fraud costs everybody.
You know, and look at if you go back to
our main tagline, insurance fraud the crime you pay for.
And there's a misconception on a lot of on a
(03:14):
part of a lot of people that insurance fraud only
costs big companies. Well that's not true. Gets filtered down
to every person in the state of New York, and
that's everybody.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Let's talk about what this looks like. One of the
first types of fraud that comes to mind for many
people is healthcare related fraud, and there's a lot of
ways it happens.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
So the first thing you want to look at is,
you know, when we talk about insurance fraud as it
relates to healthcare, there are a lot of unscrupulous professionals
out there who are stealing from the system. And you know,
one of the things that they'll do is, for instance,
they'll build for services not rendered. They'll do what's called
(03:56):
unbundling their charge for every little aspect of your visit
versus an overall charge for when you go to the doctor.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
We've got people who.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Are creating accidents all right, for the purpose of going
to that doctor to pump up an insurance claim. And
one of the things you know, from a health insurance perspective,
that we were letting people know this year is part
of our theme, is that there's something that you can
do about it. So when we go to a doctor,
you will generally get sent what's called an EOB or
(04:28):
an explanation of benefits. You know, probably comes maybe a week,
week and a half two weeks after you go to
the doctor. What we're trying to get people to do
is look at it, read it, see if what you're
being built or what your insurance company is being built
for is the service that you received. So if you
(04:48):
get an EOB for you know, our regular doctor visit,
take a look at it and make sure that the
charges on that bill pertain to the services that got
when you were at the doctor. There's a lot of
professionals and I use that word on scrupulous, and I
like that word when I talk about freud because we
all we have to understand that the vast majority of
(05:10):
the professionals that we deal with, whether they're doctors, lawyers,
insurance folks, are all honest, hardworking people. But there's a
small group that are looking to benefit themselves by committing fraud.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
So these are the.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Bad doctors and professionals that we're talking about. They even
go as far as to perform unnecessary surgery on people
and it's all for the purpose of billing. But when
you look at that, that's putting people in physical danger,
and you know, we're seeing a lot of that downstate.
When we look at construction accidents. People are going to
(05:47):
the doctor, they're submitting themselves the surgeries that they don't need,
and it's putting them at risk. So from a healthcare standpoint.
That's a big part of the fraud issue that we're
looking at now.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So being recommend did a surgical procedure that you don't
think is necessary? How do you protect against that?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
First of all, you've got to you've got to understand
what your doctor's telling you, Okay, and don't be afraid
to go for a second opinion. If a doctor's telling
you that you need surgery for something that you may
seem to think is relatively minor, talk to another doctor.
Your insurance company will cover that, all right, get a
second opinion. Don't put yourself at risky by submitting yourself
(06:29):
for unnecessary surgery. Question the doctor absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Our guest is Frank Stuck back on the show from
the New York Alliance Against Insurance Fraud. The website is
fraudanwy dot com. You're listening to get connected on one
oh six point seven Light FM. So can you talk
about fake accidents? That is a scam? You hear people
talk about, you see it on a TV show, a
(06:55):
staged car accident, for instance. But how does it work.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I've been in this business now since nineteen eighty one.
I started the freud unit at an insurance company back
in eighty one, and back in that day, staged accidents
were pretty prevalent, and a staged accident very simply is
a planned accident, So people will target drivers I try
to cause an accident again for the purpose of creating
(07:22):
a claim. A perfect example of this occurred probably about
six or seven months ago, and it was on the
national news, and I think you probably saw the clip
of a woman who was driving in New York on
the Belt Parkway, and she was in the left lane
driving mining her own business. Now, the interesting thing is
she had a dash camera, all right, So as she's driving,
(07:45):
a car cuts her off, pulls in front of her,
slams on their brakes. This young lady, she understood what
was going on. She stopped and didn't hit the car
that tried to cause the accident. Well, within a second,
you see the backup lights on that car go on
and the car forcefully rams themselves into this driver. Now
(08:10):
all on camera because you had the dash can So
within a few seconds you see through the window the
driver switch over to the passenger seat. Then people started
getting out of the car holding their neck. And then
within another probably ten or twelve seconds, another car pulls
up in front of that car, and the driver gets
(08:33):
out of the passenger seat, jumps in that car, and
takes off.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
It was an orchestrated accident.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Okay, So assuming we're able to stop without actually rear
ending the person, as this woman, this lucky woman, was
able to do, that's great. But most of us also
don't have the dash cams to record the shenanigans of
what you just described. But when you hit someone from behind,
the rule of thumb is that you are the one
at fault. So how do we avoid being a potential
(09:00):
victim to this?
Speaker 4 (09:02):
So there's a couple of ways.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
And as I said, when I first started, this was
pretty prevalent and it kind of stopped for a while,
or it slowed down for a while. But now we're
seeing it again, and we're seeing it in large numbers
around the you know, the whole the whole state of
New York, not just downstate. So the first thing that
we're doing within our campaign this year when we talk about,
(09:25):
you know, don't get burned by fraud, is be aware
of your surroundings, don't tailgate. And that's something that you know,
and I do a lot of public speaking, and it's
one of when I speak to public groups, I talk
about this very emphatically. Don't get up on somebody's bumper
for the simple reason that if that person that you're
(09:48):
tailgating is somebody who wants to cause an accident, they're
going to be watching their rear view mirror and look
for when you kind of look away for a second,
they're gonna slam on their brakes and you're going to
hit them.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So, as you said, this kind of fraud is coming back.
It's kind of terrifying, but it's not new. How over
time has law enforcement or the courts responded to punish
people who do it and further deter them.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
In two thousand and four, a grandmother by the name
of Alice Ross was driving again in Long Island and
she was a victim of a staged accident. Alice was
killed in this accident, targeted by these scammers. Well, the
State of New York institute of what's called Alice's Law,
which goes after the stages of these accidents, all right,
(10:36):
and it goes after him criminally. And the legislator has
just taken up strengthening Alice's Law by not only not
only holding the people who were in physically in the
car responsible, but for the overall planners of these accidents too.
So the state recognizes that this is a huge problem
and they've taken steps to try to impact it.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
You know, because you said this fraud is often committed
in teams. Is there any sort of reward to people
who turn these folks in? I mean, it's really dangerous,
of course, but it occurs to me that once you
have a team of people, especially criminals, working on scams
like this, someone is likely to talk out of school.
Folks like to brag, especially about dumb stuff. But also
(11:23):
if they thought they were going to get some kind
of reward and they don't have to deal with the
insurance portion, which might take a while, they might be
more likely to just turn each other in.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
There is some.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Level of payment for people who are not afraid to
come forward and give information on a group of fraudsters
like that. So that's something that the State of New York,
through the New York Insurance Fraud Division, deals with.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
But it's still an old school scam that is kind
of popping up again because.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
It pays off for a lot of people, and that's
that's the main reason that you know, it's one of
the main reasons the Alliance was created to alert people
to the problem of fraud and what they can do
about it. So going on that that, you know, what
we're asking people to do is if they see something,
say something, and they can contact us at the Alliance
(12:20):
at fraudany dot com or eight four four freud and Why.
And if they see something that appears to be fraudulent,
let the Alliance know and we'll take the information and
we'll report it to the proper authority on their behalf.
And the other thing, and we've talked about this with
(12:40):
a couple other folks this year, is people can do
it anonymously, So if somebody doesn't want their name involved,
they don't have to give their name. But if they
give us the information, we'll get it to the State
of New York, and the State of New York will
do an investigation and try to get to the bottom
of these fraudulent groups that are out there attacking people
in the State of New York.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Our guest is Frank Stoock from the New York Alliance
Against Insurance Fraud. You can find out more at fraud
and Why dot com and what overall. Frank would you
like people to take away from this conversation.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Well, I think the main thing is the messaging that
we want to get out. All right, So, first of all,
when you look at the three different groups that are involved,
you've got victims, observers, and perpetrators. So the victims of
fraud are are literally everybody in the state of New York. Okay,
if you are a victim, if you've been involved in
one of these stage accidents, let us know. If you
(13:35):
see something happening, let us know. And if you're somebody
who's a perpetrator, somebody who's committing fraud or it is
thinking about committing fraud, don't do it.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
So if you if you're.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Experiencing financial stress considering fraud, don't do it.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
It's not the right way to go.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
You can find out more about insurance fraud, including things
to watch out for, not just in the accident scam
we've just been talking about, but also with things like
medical referrals and injuries and telephone scams and all kinds
of business scams, both for employers and for employees. At
fraudany dot Com. Frank Stuck represents the New York Alliance
(14:18):
against Insurance fraud the nyaai F. Thank you for being
on the show.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
This has been get connected with Nina del Rio on
one oh six point seven light FM. The views and
opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the views
of the station. If you missed any part of our
show or want to share it, visit our website for
downloads and podcasts at one O six to seven lightfm
dot com. Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Get Connected with Nina del Rio, a weekly
conversation about fitness, health and happenings in our community on
one oh six point seven Light FM.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome, thanks for listening to get connected. Maybe you didn't
know or have never thought about it, but insurance fraud
costs you about nine hundred and twenty dollars per year.
It costs every New Yorker about nine hundred twenty dollars
per year. I am pleased to welcome Frank Stoock back
to the show representing the New York Alliance Against Insurance Fraud.
(00:36):
It is an annual conversation and going back in time, Frank,
you were also a New Jersey police officer. You were
just saying, where did you work?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Morris Township, New Jersey, which is near Morristown.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, I know it well. I live in Essex County.
It's on my train line. So the New York Alliance
Against Insurance Fraud, it exists to educate everyone about different
types of fraud. And in the past we've had really
interesting conversations on the show about workers comp fraud, cyber fraud,
home repair scams, and there's a theme every year. For
(01:10):
the next few minutes, we'll talk about this year's theme,
which is an accident scam that's kind of scary and
also growing in prevalence. You can find out more at
fraudanwy dot com and frank All these scams, this one,
the accident scam, and the ones we've talked about in
the past and more on your website, they all add
up to that nine hundred and twenty dollars you're talking about,
(01:31):
which is baked into everything, not just the cost of insurance.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Right, So that nine hundred and twenty dollars number that
we talk about in New York, when you look at that,
take an average family of say, mother, father, to kids.
That's thirty six hundred and eighty dollars a year that
these people can ill afford to just waste away because
of insurance fraud. So it really does impact everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
So the reason then we have these conversations every year,
what does your organization, the New York Alliance Against Insurance
Fraud want people to understand about the scope of insurance fraud.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
So when we look at it, everyone gets burned by fraud.
The whole idea is to get people to understand the
overall impact of insurance fraud. On each of our daily lives.
You know the I mean it certainly when you look
at it from the perspective of cost of insurance. You know,
your insurance bill is that much more expensive because people
are gaming this system. I mean, something as simple as
(02:32):
the cost of your cup of coffee in the morning,
that cup of coffee in the morning is a little
more expensive because of insurance fraud, because every business has
to have insurance, and every business who has insurance has
to pay a little bit of money to cover the
losses from insurance fraud. So it really is impacting. So
(02:53):
when we talk about everyone getting burned, it truly is
an element that everybody has to understand that fraud costs everybody.
You know, and look at if you go back to
our main tagline, insurance fraud the crime you pay for.
And there's a misconception on a lot of on a
(03:14):
part of a lot of people that insurance fraud only
costs big companies. Well that's not true. Gets filtered down
to every person in the state of New York, and
that's everybody.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Let's talk about what this looks like. One of the
first types of fraud that comes to mind for many
people is healthcare related fraud, and there's a lot of
ways it happens.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
So the first thing you want to look at is,
you know, when we talk about insurance fraud as it
relates to healthcare, there are a lot of unscrupulous professionals
out there who are stealing from the system. And you know,
one of the things that they'll do is, for instance,
they'll build for services not rendered. They'll do what's called
(03:56):
unbundling their charge for every little aspect of your visit
versus an overall charge for when you go to the doctor.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
We've got people who.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Are creating accidents all right, for the purpose of going
to that doctor to pump up an insurance claim. And
one of the things you know, from a health insurance perspective,
that we were letting people know this year is part
of our theme, is that there's something that you can
do about it. So when we go to a doctor,
you will generally get sent what's called an EOB or
(04:28):
an explanation of benefits. You know, probably comes maybe a week,
week and a half two weeks after you go to
the doctor. What we're trying to get people to do
is look at it, read it, see if what you're
being built or what your insurance company is being built
for is the service that you received. So if you
(04:48):
get an EOB for you know, our regular doctor visit,
take a look at it and make sure that the
charges on that bill pertain to the services that got
when you were at the doctor. There's a lot of
professionals and I use that word on scrupulous, and I
like that word when I talk about freud because we
all we have to understand that the vast majority of
(05:10):
the professionals that we deal with, whether they're doctors, lawyers,
insurance folks, are all honest, hardworking people. But there's a
small group that are looking to benefit themselves by committing fraud.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
So these are the.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Bad doctors and professionals that we're talking about. They even
go as far as to perform unnecessary surgery on people
and it's all for the purpose of billing. But when
you look at that, that's putting people in physical danger,
and you know, we're seeing a lot of that downstate.
When we look at construction accidents. People are going to
(05:47):
the doctor, they're submitting themselves the surgeries that they don't need,
and it's putting them at risk. So from a healthcare standpoint.
That's a big part of the fraud issue that we're
looking at now.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So being recommend did a surgical procedure that you don't
think is necessary? How do you protect against that?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
First of all, you've got to you've got to understand
what your doctor's telling you, Okay, and don't be afraid
to go for a second opinion. If a doctor's telling
you that you need surgery for something that you may
seem to think is relatively minor, talk to another doctor.
Your insurance company will cover that, all right, get a
second opinion. Don't put yourself at risky by submitting yourself
(06:29):
for unnecessary surgery. Question the doctor absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Our guest is Frank Stuck back on the show from
the New York Alliance Against Insurance Fraud. The website is
fraudanwy dot com. You're listening to get connected on one
oh six point seven Light FM. So can you talk
about fake accidents? That is a scam? You hear people
talk about, you see it on a TV show, a
(06:55):
staged car accident, for instance. But how does it work.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I've been in this business now since nineteen eighty one.
I started the freud unit at an insurance company back
in eighty one, and back in that day, staged accidents
were pretty prevalent, and a staged accident very simply is
a planned accident, So people will target drivers I try
to cause an accident again for the purpose of creating
(07:22):
a claim. A perfect example of this occurred probably about
six or seven months ago, and it was on the
national news, and I think you probably saw the clip
of a woman who was driving in New York on
the Belt Parkway, and she was in the left lane
driving mining her own business. Now, the interesting thing is
she had a dash camera, all right, So as she's driving,
(07:45):
a car cuts her off, pulls in front of her,
slams on their brakes. This young lady, she understood what
was going on. She stopped and didn't hit the car
that tried to cause the accident. Well, within a second,
you see the backup lights on that car go on
and the car forcefully rams themselves into this driver. Now
(08:10):
all on camera because you had the dash can So
within a few seconds you see through the window the
driver switch over to the passenger seat. Then people started
getting out of the car holding their neck. And then
within another probably ten or twelve seconds, another car pulls
up in front of that car, and the driver gets
(08:33):
out of the passenger seat, jumps in that car, and
takes off.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
It was an orchestrated accident.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Okay, So assuming we're able to stop without actually rear
ending the person, as this woman, this lucky woman, was
able to do, that's great. But most of us also
don't have the dash cams to record the shenanigans of
what you just described. But when you hit someone from behind,
the rule of thumb is that you are the one
at fault. So how do we avoid being a potential
(09:00):
victim to this?
Speaker 4 (09:02):
So there's a couple of ways.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
And as I said, when I first started, this was
pretty prevalent and it kind of stopped for a while,
or it slowed down for a while. But now we're
seeing it again, and we're seeing it in large numbers
around the you know, the whole the whole state of
New York, not just downstate. So the first thing that
we're doing within our campaign this year when we talk about,
(09:25):
you know, don't get burned by fraud, is be aware
of your surroundings, don't tailgate. And that's something that you know,
and I do a lot of public speaking, and it's
one of when I speak to public groups, I talk
about this very emphatically. Don't get up on somebody's bumper
for the simple reason that if that person that you're
(09:48):
tailgating is somebody who wants to cause an accident, they're
going to be watching their rear view mirror and look
for when you kind of look away for a second,
they're gonna slam on their brakes and you're going to
hit them.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So, as you said, this kind of fraud is coming back.
It's kind of terrifying, but it's not new. How over
time has law enforcement or the courts responded to punish
people who do it and further deter them.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
In two thousand and four, a grandmother by the name
of Alice Ross was driving again in Long Island and
she was a victim of a staged accident. Alice was
killed in this accident, targeted by these scammers. Well, the
State of New York institute of what's called Alice's Law,
which goes after the stages of these accidents, all right,
(10:36):
and it goes after him criminally. And the legislator has
just taken up strengthening Alice's Law by not only not
only holding the people who were in physically in the
car responsible, but for the overall planners of these accidents too.
So the state recognizes that this is a huge problem
and they've taken steps to try to impact it.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
You know, because you said this fraud is often committed
in teams. Is there any sort of reward to people
who turn these folks in? I mean, it's really dangerous,
of course, but it occurs to me that once you
have a team of people, especially criminals, working on scams
like this, someone is likely to talk out of school.
Folks like to brag, especially about dumb stuff. But also
(11:23):
if they thought they were going to get some kind
of reward and they don't have to deal with the
insurance portion, which might take a while, they might be
more likely to just turn each other in.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
There is some.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Level of payment for people who are not afraid to
come forward and give information on a group of fraudsters
like that. So that's something that the State of New York,
through the New York Insurance Fraud Division, deals with.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
But it's still an old school scam that is kind
of popping up again because.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
It pays off for a lot of people, and that's
that's the main reason that you know, it's one of
the main reasons the Alliance was created to alert people
to the problem of fraud and what they can do
about it. So going on that that, you know, what
we're asking people to do is if they see something,
say something, and they can contact us at the Alliance
(12:20):
at fraudany dot com or eight four four freud and Why.
And if they see something that appears to be fraudulent,
let the Alliance know and we'll take the information and
we'll report it to the proper authority on their behalf.
And the other thing, and we've talked about this with
(12:40):
a couple other folks this year, is people can do
it anonymously, So if somebody doesn't want their name involved,
they don't have to give their name. But if they
give us the information, we'll get it to the State
of New York, and the State of New York will
do an investigation and try to get to the bottom
of these fraudulent groups that are out there attacking people
in the State of New York.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Our guest is Frank Stoock from the New York Alliance
Against Insurance Fraud. You can find out more at fraud
and Why dot com and what overall. Frank would you
like people to take away from this conversation.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Well, I think the main thing is the messaging that
we want to get out. All right, So, first of all,
when you look at the three different groups that are involved,
you've got victims, observers, and perpetrators. So the victims of
fraud are are literally everybody in the state of New York. Okay,
if you are a victim, if you've been involved in
one of these stage accidents, let us know. If you
(13:35):
see something happening, let us know. And if you're somebody
who's a perpetrator, somebody who's committing fraud or it is
thinking about committing fraud, don't do it.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
So if you if you're.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Experiencing financial stress considering fraud, don't do it.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
It's not the right way to go.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
You can find out more about insurance fraud, including things
to watch out for, not just in the accident scam
we've just been talking about, but also with things like
medical referrals and injuries and telephone scams and all kinds
of business scams, both for employers and for employees. At
fraudany dot Com. Frank Stuck represents the New York Alliance
(14:18):
against Insurance fraud the nyaai F. Thank you for being
on the show.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
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