July 23, 2025 • 4 mins
And he joins the show on the air to talk about his new book.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
One O six point seven Light of fmcubby and Christine
in the Morning and Christine. Not many people can say
they still talk to friends they grew up with, but
I do talk to about four of them, uh huh,
and we have one of them on the phone right now.
Me and John Densmore grew up together in Virginia Beach, Virginia.
We became friends around nine years old. We've always stayed
in touch, and when he was fourteen, he actually shot
(00:22):
me in the face of the BB gun and that
bebe still there.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
It's still in your face.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
And we're going to end the interview with that whole story,
all right, so hang on for that.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
That's a good friend, covey, oh.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
My god, dear friend. But nowadays, John Densmore is a
professor of marketing at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio.
And I'm proud to say that my childhood friend has
his first book out. It's called The Marketing of Debt
and How They Get You. Say Hi to my friend
John Dinsmore. John, Good morning, Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
John, Hey everybody, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
John. What made you want to write this book? And
who really needs to read this book? I wanted to write.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
The book because I've got two graduate degrees, both of
them you know where I've taken lots of finance classes
and they still struggle with financial decisions from time to time.
So I wanted to get into, like the debt decision,
why people struggle with it, and what marketers do to
kind of make it harder on us.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
In your book, you describe how psychological biases like optimism
lead people to underestimate the true cost of debt. How
did you decide which biases were most important to explore.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I really broke it down by the different aspects of
the decision. So when you're talking about optimism, one of
the first things you have to do if you're taking
out a loan or a credit card is think about
your future circumstances. And so how does our thinking change
when we think about our future? And we tend to
think that we're always going to be doing better and
making more money, and we also tend to think that
things are going to be more affordable than they actually
(01:48):
are a job many people, like you know, they chase
rewards in travel perks. Is there ever a scenario where
card rewards like genuinely help consumers or is it always
another trap. You usually get what one to two percent
back on your purchases, and if you do the math
on it, you know, to get let's say, if we're
talking about miles, people have to run up probably twenty
(02:08):
thousand dollars on their credit cards to get a you know,
a local or regional airfare, and in that people will
probably if they don't pay off their balances, they'll be
paying probably but two to five thousand dollars for that
two hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
What about for somebody who's finding themselves in debt, you know,
running up credit cards and car payments and mortgage. How
do you manage everything? How do you try and feel
like you have some control over that?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Well, it's hard, right, We've all probably gotten in trouble
with it at one point or another. I mean, I
think the best way to do it is consolidate and
then opt into automatic increases in payments or savings.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Well, John, the book is called The Marketing of Debt
and how they get you again. I grew up with you,
and now you're a professor and you're an author, and
I'm proud of you, buddy. Now, way before you go, though,
what do you remember about when you shot me with
a BB gun, all right.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I can't remember if was it your. I forget why
we had the BB gun. I don't remember other than
shooting in the face. I don't really remember it in
any other part of our hanging out, and we hung
out like almost every day.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah. Well, it was a rainy day. We were in
my house in the family room and you were pumping
a BB gun on the couch and I was sitting
in the chair across the room, and you said, let
me know if you can feel the air come out
of here, because we thought it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Loaded, like any good teenage moron would do.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, so you pumped the gun up. You pump the
gun and then you shot it at me, and I
fell on the floor and put my hand in my
cheek and you went, Paul, you're your kid, and you're lying.
I didn't hit you. There's no BB in there. And
then I took I took my hand away from my cheek,
and blood started gushing out, and we looked all over
for the BB on the rug. We never found the
BB And then three months later I go to a
(03:52):
dentist and they see a big metal ball in my
cheek and to this day, I'm fifty four years old.
That BB has rested now above my upper teeth. So
if you see an X ray of me, you'll see
the teeth, nerves, and a little ball right here.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, set off the metal detectors at the airport.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
That's a common question, Christine and I don't but but yeah, man,
technically you owe me some money from this book you make.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Well, technically I'm a doctor now, so I can just
come up there and take it out.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Oh, there we go, there we go. Yeah, I just think,
all right, Hey, John, thank you so much. Congratulations buddy.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Hey, guys, thanks very much.
One O six point seven Light of fmcubby and Christine
in the Morning and Christine. Not many people can say
they still talk to friends they grew up with, but
I do talk to about four of them, uh huh,
and we have one of them on the phone right now.
Me and John Densmore grew up together in Virginia Beach, Virginia.
We became friends around nine years old. We've always stayed
in touch, and when he was fourteen, he actually shot
(00:22):
me in the face of the BB gun and that
bebe still there.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
It's still in your face.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
And we're going to end the interview with that whole story,
all right, so hang on for that.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
That's a good friend, covey, oh.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
My god, dear friend. But nowadays, John Densmore is a
professor of marketing at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio.
And I'm proud to say that my childhood friend has
his first book out. It's called The Marketing of Debt
and How They Get You. Say Hi to my friend
John Dinsmore. John, Good morning, Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
John, Hey everybody, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
John. What made you want to write this book? And
who really needs to read this book? I wanted to write.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
The book because I've got two graduate degrees, both of
them you know where I've taken lots of finance classes
and they still struggle with financial decisions from time to time.
So I wanted to get into, like the debt decision,
why people struggle with it, and what marketers do to
kind of make it harder on us.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
In your book, you describe how psychological biases like optimism
lead people to underestimate the true cost of debt. How
did you decide which biases were most important to explore.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I really broke it down by the different aspects of
the decision. So when you're talking about optimism, one of
the first things you have to do if you're taking
out a loan or a credit card is think about
your future circumstances. And so how does our thinking change
when we think about our future? And we tend to
think that we're always going to be doing better and
making more money, and we also tend to think that
things are going to be more affordable than they actually
(01:48):
are a job many people, like you know, they chase
rewards in travel perks. Is there ever a scenario where
card rewards like genuinely help consumers or is it always
another trap. You usually get what one to two percent
back on your purchases, and if you do the math
on it, you know, to get let's say, if we're
talking about miles, people have to run up probably twenty
(02:08):
thousand dollars on their credit cards to get a you know,
a local or regional airfare, and in that people will
probably if they don't pay off their balances, they'll be
paying probably but two to five thousand dollars for that
two hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
What about for somebody who's finding themselves in debt, you know,
running up credit cards and car payments and mortgage. How
do you manage everything? How do you try and feel
like you have some control over that?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Well, it's hard, right, We've all probably gotten in trouble
with it at one point or another. I mean, I
think the best way to do it is consolidate and
then opt into automatic increases in payments or savings.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Well, John, the book is called The Marketing of Debt
and how they get you again. I grew up with you,
and now you're a professor and you're an author, and
I'm proud of you, buddy. Now, way before you go, though,
what do you remember about when you shot me with
a BB gun, all right.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I can't remember if was it your. I forget why
we had the BB gun. I don't remember other than
shooting in the face. I don't really remember it in
any other part of our hanging out, and we hung
out like almost every day.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah. Well, it was a rainy day. We were in
my house in the family room and you were pumping
a BB gun on the couch and I was sitting
in the chair across the room, and you said, let
me know if you can feel the air come out
of here, because we thought it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Loaded, like any good teenage moron would do.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, so you pumped the gun up. You pump the
gun and then you shot it at me, and I
fell on the floor and put my hand in my
cheek and you went, Paul, you're your kid, and you're lying.
I didn't hit you. There's no BB in there. And
then I took I took my hand away from my cheek,
and blood started gushing out, and we looked all over
for the BB on the rug. We never found the
BB And then three months later I go to a
(03:52):
dentist and they see a big metal ball in my
cheek and to this day, I'm fifty four years old.
That BB has rested now above my upper teeth. So
if you see an X ray of me, you'll see
the teeth, nerves, and a little ball right here.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, set off the metal detectors at the airport.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
That's a common question, Christine and I don't but but yeah, man,
technically you owe me some money from this book you make.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Well, technically I'm a doctor now, so I can just
come up there and take it out.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Oh, there we go, there we go. Yeah, I just think,
all right, Hey, John, thank you so much. Congratulations buddy.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Hey, guys, thanks very much.
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