Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The mystery of the island was interesting to me. The
sea marsh grasses were coming up through the water, and
I looked at my friend and said, can you imagine
it might be a body floating right under that water
and you would never know.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
She said, you're real strange.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Welcome to the Public Library Podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
Sorry, here's your host.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
And podcast librarian, award winning poet, future bestselling author.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
And host of one of the most listened to radio
shows in America, Helen Little.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Hello, book lovers. I've got a very special episode of
today's Public Library Podcast that was recorded on location in Bali,
So take a minute and enjoy. I am speaking today
with the award winning author of Island Secrets, a Queens
of Kiowa story, Nina Fox.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Thank you for having me. Glad to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
I'm excited about it. So let's get right into the book.
Tell us about your book.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Okay, it's a mystery.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Imagine your husband has disappeared a year ago, don't know
where he is, so you need to figure that out
because without him, without a body, without him being.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Declared dead, there's no insurance and you can't move on.
So that's where the book starts.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Our heroin decides to go, has a clue that has
led her to Kiowa Island where they have a vacation home,
this enclave of friends that go there together, and she
starts her investigation to find out what has happened to
her husband, where'd he go and where the money at?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
What inspired this story a true story?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Really?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yes, someone that I used to work with occasionally disappeared,
just disappeared.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Just disappeared.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
And this person was an upstanding we thought, family man
and business owner and we would occasionally do consulting work
with him out of the country, and we started getting
calls because people wanted to know where he was and
we had no idea where he was because he disappeared,
but so did his companies.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Four one K money ooh.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
And so that kind of rested with me a while.
And then I had a group of women invite me
to Kiowa Island and they were in my head the
Queens of Kiowa. Originally I were going to call them
the Kings of Kiowa, but at that time my agent
said women can't be kings.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I now know that to not featured.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
There you go, and they're women who had lived their
careers done all the things that we admire in corporate
America and now we're enjoying the fruits of their labors.
And they had vacation homes on Kioa Island, and it
was just like this secret enclave of black excellence. Kiowa
Island used to be a plantation. It's one of the
Barrier islands off the coast there in South Carolina. But
(02:37):
the mystery of the island was interesting to me. And
the first time we went, we were chasing. There's a
show called Diners Driving, Yeah, and there was a restaurant
featured there, and we went.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
We tried to go.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
It was just a shack over the water, which is
where you see the book opens, and it was a
cove and these willow trees were hanging over this coal
and the marsh, the sea marsh grasses were coming up
through the water.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
And I looked at my friend.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
And said, can you imagine there might be a body
flying floating right under that water and you would never know?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
She said, You're real strange.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Somehow, the two of those things came together with me
as the perfect starting place in my head, and I
wanted to write a mystery. I was like, here's a
mystery and this is what happens.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
You had such rich characters and I loved many of them.
But who was your favorite character to write?
Speaker 4 (03:26):
And why? And I really want to know who inspired Denise?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, two questions.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So the first one I think was Melika Devereaux was
my favorite character to write because she had such a
perfect facade, like she floated into the room and her
clothes were together, but she had a secret. She was
the person that she created, right, Yeah, she came to
be Melika Devereaux because she changed to recreate herself as such,
and we could recreate ourselves so many times in life,
(03:52):
and she was very intentional about it and I loved it,
although you know, her ending wasn't so great. Who inspired Denise?
I think Denise was a conglomeration of those queens. Okay,
if they were the people that I would say, oh,
I have mentors. They are those people and they're doing
these things that are great that you look at and say,
I want to be.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
That when I'm that Auntie, you know, right right?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
But they worked hard, they chose to be here, and
I think I combined something from all of those people
to make Denise.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
You have written in a lot of different genres.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yes, was this the first of its kind in writing
mysteries or did you.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Do this before? And do you have a.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Preference when it comes to So I kind of write
what I feel like. I'm curious about life. I'm a
psychologist by trade. I'm also a coach, so I'm curious
and I write to the question. Okay, So I wanted
to write a mystery. I think there's been elements of
mysteries and other books. I wrote a Simon Foster and
I wrote erotic espionage that life interests me, and so
(04:51):
it was the first mystery. I've written two others in
the same series now that go with it that are
not published yet, but they're coming.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Cinnamon f or the Queen and the Queen got it right?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Do I have a favorite? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
It's like a whole big puzzle, okay, Like how do
I make the puzzle come out? And I'm curious, like
I would love to write science fiction because I cut
my teef growing up on science fiction and thriller, but
I just haven't gotten there yet. I think I also
want to write in television because I like story.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I like telling a story.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Story.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, I asked these questions because that inspires me. I'm
a reader who likes to read a lot of different genres,
and I'm a writer who likes to write a different genre,
a lot of different genres, and so many times in
this business you hear stick with one and I'm like,
I don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I mean, I do have written multiple Like when I
first started out, they said I was chick lit and
then women's fiction. I wrote a bunch of those. They
sort of had a maybe a comedic twist to them.
Then I did some ya young adults and new adults
because those were interesting questions to me as a mother
of at the time of young adults and some of
(05:56):
the puzzles or the questions that they were faced with.
And then erotic espionage came up because I honestly loved
to travel.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
W you're interviewing me here, and.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And Bali and I did a lot of work out
of the country, international assignments, and at the time I
was traveling with my now husband, So it was like,
what happens in these international mysteries that or international espionage,
things that no one wants to solve, Like what are
the questions? So different things from the different cultures inspired me,
(06:29):
and I was like, well, what if? And that's what
made me write that serious So I.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Love that question. What if? What was the hardest thing
about writing this particular book?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I asked, because you do wear a lot of hats,
and I want to talk about all those hats. You've
talked about some of them. But what was it that
was hard about writing this book?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
For you?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I was really interested in making Kiowa Island as much
a character as the people were.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Okay, I felt that.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, so I'm glad you did it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
It's so funny because I was contacted by book club
out of the area.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
They're like, oh, you really know this area?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
They want you to come, And I think they thought
I was a white woman, and you know, they.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Were like, oh, oh, okay, it's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
But I don't know how they could think that when
you see how the characters talk. That was something that
reviewers talked about. They felt like they were talking to
a bunch of black women and they were. They were
clearly taking because they are cultural things in the book.
Although they're affluent, it was clear what culture they were from.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
You know, it's interesting you say that because I written
a book and I was querying and this woman told me, oh,
you need to add this into the query letter, that
the sisters are African American.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I said she.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
I didn't ask why. I just said I said thank
you and thought about it. I'm like, no, I'm not
going to do that. Well, the reason I didn't do
it one.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
I prefer the word black that part. That part to use.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Your imagination that everybody isn't doesn't look like you when
something comes across your desk, ask questions.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Be open minded.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
I mean, if I say they grew up in the
Jim Crow South, that's just not relevant to someone who
isn't black, right, it would just be the South.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I think it's so interesting that that would be asked
of us. When we read characters from the mainstream, mainstream
culture and you can't see air quotes.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
You know, we're not asking them the right that they
were white.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
You know, we're not a monolith, and we can have
all these different experiences and nothing makes those experiences less
black because they don't take place in the stereotypical South.
But we have to make an excuse to say, oh,
they're living this, but by the way, they're black. Why yeah,
you know, I just didn't think that was relevant because
there are people that live like this and we are
especially when you talk about Black Americans, I'm saying black,
(08:46):
not African American. For a reason when you talk about
American descendants of slavery or American survivors of slavery, I
think that we are all different strata strata experiences, and
we all of them are hours and we should embrace
them all.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yes, I agree with you. So we're not finished with
Denise and Trent just yet.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Okay, you already kind of mentioned that, but what is
next in the Queens of Stories?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
So there's a lot of things going on, and you know,
it took me. It's an interesting thing going back and
forth with all the things that are going on and
publishing and not publishing. How should you do this? Should
you be self published? You and I've been to everything.
I'm a hybrid author, so I've been self published, large press,
small press, all of the things in between.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
And I wrote a follow on book called.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
The Dead Don't Speak, and my agent gave me some
edits for it, because some agents will do that, and
I took a long time getting them back because now
people are expecting the next.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Book, right and traditional publishing can take a long time.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
We came to an agreement what's going to happen, and
now she's out marketing that book. So in the Dead
Don't Speak, you focus. Although Denise does pass through that book.
She's in the book, but it doesn't really focus on
her as much as a main character who comes to
Kiowa and Denise decides to say after they solve the
mystery of what has happened to her husband and opens
a business. So the ladies in the Island Secrets form
(10:06):
a full time chapter or their social club one that
I made up. They have this social club. They're going
to have their first chapter meeting. And in their first
chapter meeting, which Denise is hosting at this business that
she is now purchased, a woman shows up and she
is gorgeous, gorgeous, just face beat, hair beat, everything beat,
you know, all down to the ground. And after a
(10:28):
few weeks she ends up dead. Then after she's dead,
they find out that she was trans.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Oh, I want this book.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So if you can imagine all of the things that
happened first fall in the South, in the climate that
we have. You know, we're not new to trans people
or gay people. We just don't talk about it in
our community as much. And so here you are in
this woman's organization in the Deep South, because it is
still the South, and I like to weave in current events.
(11:01):
And I at the time when I was writing this book,
the United Methodist Church was being sued because they had
a thing where, you know, everyone is welcome, but you
can't be clergy. You can't be a lay minister if
you were gay. That's shaping the attitudes that people have.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, when did you know you wanted to write books?
And when did you know you wanted to help other
people write?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So I don't know, so that's interesting. When did I
know I wanted to write books? I think I was
always a writer, but I took me a long time
to arrive as a writer and an art artist in
my head. Okay, no, give give myself permission. So you
know my I was raised by my father, an older father.
He was born in nineteen twenty five, so he was
an older father. I was like a month the last
(11:44):
set of eight kids. So there were things that I
was not going to do. I was not going to
be a dancer, he told me. He says, we didn't
go to have no book dancing niggas in our house.
So forget that, you know, so that was not allowed.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I was not.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
He was like, you need to get a job because
you cannot live on my couch. You need to study
something that's going to make you up a living. So
you know, I studied something science and engineering, and Jason,
that's what I do, right. But when I was in
I was an avid reader always, so I read everything.
I read my father's books, and I remember writing in
middle school doing two things.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I would read.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
My dad would read the newspaper. So I would read
the newspaper, the New York Post, New York Times, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
And I can't So you're a native New York I.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Am a native of New York. Yes, native of New Yorker.
So I can't remember what the editorial was that I
responded to. And they published my piece. I was in
middle school and it was it was it was about
being black, but I can't remember what spurred that.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Wow, right, how old were you.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Theaper?
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yes, it was in the newspaper. And then I was like, oh,
this is interesting. And then so my mother died very young,
and I wrote a piece called the Last Christmas and
I submitted it to Catholic Digests and they rejected me.
But that was okay, and then I was like, okay,
that is it for me. And then I went to
Hunter College undergrad. I'm really in New York, you are, And.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I wrote a.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Piece in that intro that writing class they make you
take as a freshman, and my professor wanted to submit
it for publication, and I said no because I was
too scared.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So I think I was.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Always a writer, like I always journals, I always wrote
things down.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
But then when I was in.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Grad school working on my dissertation, by the time I
got there, I hated it the topic because you're beating
this thing to death for like four years. And to
make myself sit in front of the computer and write,
I would first write something fun for thirty minutes and
then switch over to what I was supposed to be
working on. But I had four hundred pages of fun
before I had dissertation, So and then I put it.
(13:44):
I put it in a desk and then think about it.
And then fast forward five or so years, maybe three years.
I was working at a computer company with this thing
in my this tone because you presupprint everything because your
computer would crash and you would lose word would crash
and you'd lose.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
All your stuff, so you would print it. And there
was a bit.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I lived in Austin and there was a big community
of artists there, and I met a poet who I'm
still friends with now. We actually just produced a film together, Oni,
and she said, I'm going to writers conference.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
You want to go.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I was like, yeah, I got this thing, I guess so,
and so I went to that conference and that was
my first experience.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I remember my daughter was eleven years old.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
She's twenty eight now, I mean eleven months old, she's
twenty eight ye now. And I pitched you get to
pitch to editors and agents, and a few of them
requested it.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
It was good. It was good because I didn't expect
to be there. I was like, oh, let's just go see.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
You know it's someone once told me that I'm an
author advocate.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Now I'm going to say the same thing about you.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Tell us about the other things that you do inside
the literary world. We are actually recording this right now
here in Bali on location because of your advocacy.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
So it's funny. I never thought of myself as.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
A literary advocate, author advocate, author African. I never thought
of that. But last year in Mexico in Merida, at
this event where the writing systress on it, Marita Golden
called me a literary activist. I was like, what, I
never thought of it that way. When I first became
(15:10):
a published author, there were not a lot of people
writing books with characters that looked like I mean, I
think there was Terry McMillan, and I think Elin Harris,
and that was it. I mean Mayangelo, but you know,
that was it. But contemporary fiction at the time that
wasn't necessarily stuff they made you read in school. And
so at that time, at the end of the nineteen hundreds,
(15:34):
in the old days, back in the olden days, there
were a bunch of us because they said blacks don't read,
so it was almost impossible to get a deal. So
we all self published our books.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
There was a bunch of us.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
You know, and then you'd go on tour, so a
lot of times self funds. So all the black bookstores
around the country, and you'd see each other.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
On the road literally, like I remember major.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Books in Atlanta had us an hour or two hours apart,
and one one of us would go in the other
won't come out nice, and you would see each other
and you would get to ask questions, Hey, so and
so what happened with this, Oh, don't do that because
they took my money, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Wow, you know. Then they decided that we did.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
At one point for Borders Books, African American fiction was
the largest selling genre, and so they bought a bunch
of us up, all the publishers.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
I didn't realize that, Yes, and.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
It was all of us that have been self published
now had book deals. But then things change, technology change.
Amazon was only books mainly then and a lot of
the smaller book stores started to close. So we lost
that place where you shared around the water cooler, so
to speak, because it didn't exist anymore. Yeah, and so
(16:41):
there used to be an African American book club at
Sea Conference and I was asked to speak on that.
That went for five years and then went away. And
that was another place where you got to see the
authors because we were all friends and we would go together.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
And I wanted to recreate that.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
As part of being a published author for twenty years,
I wanted that to come back. I was like, I
miss where people could ask you like, hey, how do
you do this? And you could get information, they can
give information, and you're shure.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And I'm a firm.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Believer that you learn things from people no matter where
they are in their journey. So that's why I created
the Writing Systems Summit. And the idea was that authors, writers,
people in this business could come together and other people
who wanted to go where they had been could learn
from them, and you could share and create a community.
And so that was in twenty nineteen, and so other
(17:31):
than the year that we were, you know, pandemics out,
I've been doing this every year somewhere.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
But that's not all you do.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I do have that.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I spent some time being an author, staying home writing,
So I work in tech, you know, and have had
a great career doing that.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
So I help people help people figure out.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
The path to the goal that they are selected, whether
that's writing a book or having more executive presence, or
figuring out how to have more time in their.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Day for themselves.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And it just fit with this, and it fit with work,
and I was already doing it. I help people figure
out why they haven't completed their book really or figure
out what that pivot is. I run another retreat called Unapologetic,
the retreat for Black women to help them learn to
embrace all of their talents and be intentional about what
they want.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
So, what's the most important piece advice you can give
an aspiring writer who wants to develop themselves into an
author and a brand.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Huh, Well, first of all, think about what that means. Okay,
you need to know where you're going, so you can
make a plan to get there.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
It's not a haphazard thing.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
And also think about the time in your day. There's
a lot of things that are going to be on
your plate. And you all know when a Thanksgiving plate
is overloaded out every.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
It gets you got to make room.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
We're only human something you can't do everything all the time,
and so something's got to give.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
And what is that going to be?
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And most of the time you can't say, well, I'm
going to give up my husband or my family or
my children to do this other thing.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
I don't think anyone chooses that, but sometimes it ends
up being.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Then it ends up being that way.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
You have to offload something to make room for the
things that are important to you. And hopefully those things
that are important to you part of them is you.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Yeah, so very important. So what's the last book that
you read that really moved you, that just made you
go damn?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So it maybe go damn. Actually was Mariita Golden's last memoir, okay,
but it was a very literary memoir. I talked talked
about her life as a writer, but it was set
in such great contexts over her going to college post
civil rights and it you understood the context for her,
(19:41):
and it makes me understand her calling me a literary
activist because we are we can be very active with
our words and deeds, and she was. And I thought
it was just so well written and such a great
example of what.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
A memoir.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
You think I'm gonna write a memoir and you're like, I.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Was born by the river. No, you know right right?
Speaker 1 (20:03):
She started in the middle in a way that was
great and they just see how all the things happened
in context.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
So I just loved that book.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
So what's next.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
So one of the.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Things, there's a couple of things I want to I
love the intimacy of the Writing Sisters Summit. I limited
to fifteen attendees, okay, plus faculty. I want to find
a way to make a variation bigger where there's actually
two cohorts going at the same time, there's two lead faculty.
So that's an actually idea that came to me, came
(20:35):
to my husband this morning in a discussion we were
talking through. But I really want to I've written some
film stuff, but I really want to write for television. Okay,
So whether that's taking the content that I have and
having my agent market market it myself, but I really
want to do that. So I actually have written the
whole plan on this, on how this is going to happen,
(20:57):
but I think that's something I want to do. So
for me, when I say I want to do this,
I actually took the Three Island Secrets Kings of Queens
of Kiawa storybooks, wrote out pitches for TV, a story, bible,
season arc, the whole thing. I've learned all the things
and sent it to my agent. And that's why I
wanted The faculty was like, why is she doing that?
(21:18):
Because watch because I kind of visualized all I wanted
to And then after the seminar that we had on screenwriting,
I wrote a whole series our eight episodes, like here's plotline,
A his plotline being here's the conflict.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Here's the out and.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Since yesterday, yes, okay, I am under a tiver.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I was like, okay, nobody's I get focused on that
one thing and then I just do those things and
I love that.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
So if people want to reach out to you, if
they want to find your books, if they want to
be a part of any of your seminars and cohorts,
or if they want.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
To connect with you in any way, or they just
want to follow you.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
On social So I'm on all the socials.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
So Nina Fox with two to exes, I'm gonna switch
to Spanish. Those eavesa now, Noah, everybody's seeing those echis beer.
They won't forget it. So Nina Fox. Ninafox dot com
is my website. I'm on Facebook, I'm on Instagram, I'm
on TikTok, I'm on LinkedIn. They can also find me
in my community inc and Intention, which is where all
(22:19):
the things come together, okay, and they can find out
about the retreats there. They can take recorded yoga classes there.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Forgot yoga. We're sitting in a yoga.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Studio in a yoga studio there, and you are also
a yoga instructor.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
And this is what I'm saying people. This woman really.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Does do it all, but she does it with grace
and intention and enough room for everybody.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
That, to me is the part that I'm most impressed with.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
All the things are in incan attention, and you find
that from my website Ninafox dot com.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Nina, thank you so much for taking time to talk
with us today. Thank you for all that you do
and we've got to do this again.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Thank you for wanting to talk to me. Thank you
for trusting me in Bali.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Skuma.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Another show in the books. Join us for the next
episode of the Public Library Podcast, a place to check
out books
The mystery of the island was interesting to me. The
sea marsh grasses were coming up through the water, and
I looked at my friend and said, can you imagine
it might be a body floating right under that water
and you would never know.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
She said, you're real strange.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Welcome to the Public Library Podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
Sorry, here's your host.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
And podcast librarian, award winning poet, future bestselling author.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
And host of one of the most listened to radio
shows in America, Helen Little.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Hello, book lovers. I've got a very special episode of
today's Public Library Podcast that was recorded on location in Bali,
So take a minute and enjoy. I am speaking today
with the award winning author of Island Secrets, a Queens
of Kiowa story, Nina Fox.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Thank you for having me. Glad to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
I'm excited about it. So let's get right into the book.
Tell us about your book.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Okay, it's a mystery.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Imagine your husband has disappeared a year ago, don't know
where he is, so you need to figure that out
because without him, without a body, without him being.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Declared dead, there's no insurance and you can't move on.
So that's where the book starts.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Our heroin decides to go, has a clue that has
led her to Kiowa Island where they have a vacation home,
this enclave of friends that go there together, and she
starts her investigation to find out what has happened to
her husband, where'd he go and where the money at?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
What inspired this story a true story?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Really?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yes, someone that I used to work with occasionally disappeared,
just disappeared.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Just disappeared.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
And this person was an upstanding we thought, family man
and business owner and we would occasionally do consulting work
with him out of the country, and we started getting
calls because people wanted to know where he was and
we had no idea where he was because he disappeared,
but so did his companies.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Four one K money ooh.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
And so that kind of rested with me a while.
And then I had a group of women invite me
to Kiowa Island and they were in my head the
Queens of Kiowa. Originally I were going to call them
the Kings of Kiowa, but at that time my agent
said women can't be kings.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I now know that to not featured.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
There you go, and they're women who had lived their
careers done all the things that we admire in corporate
America and now we're enjoying the fruits of their labors.
And they had vacation homes on Kioa Island, and it
was just like this secret enclave of black excellence. Kiowa
Island used to be a plantation. It's one of the
Barrier islands off the coast there in South Carolina. But
(02:37):
the mystery of the island was interesting to me. And
the first time we went, we were chasing. There's a
show called Diners Driving, Yeah, and there was a restaurant
featured there, and we went.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
We tried to go.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
It was just a shack over the water, which is
where you see the book opens, and it was a
cove and these willow trees were hanging over this coal
and the marsh, the sea marsh grasses were coming up
through the water.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
And I looked at my friend.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
And said, can you imagine there might be a body
flying floating right under that water and you would never know?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
She said, You're real strange.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Somehow, the two of those things came together with me
as the perfect starting place in my head, and I
wanted to write a mystery. I was like, here's a
mystery and this is what happens.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
You had such rich characters and I loved many of them.
But who was your favorite character to write?
Speaker 4 (03:26):
And why? And I really want to know who inspired Denise?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, two questions.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So the first one I think was Melika Devereaux was
my favorite character to write because she had such a
perfect facade, like she floated into the room and her
clothes were together, but she had a secret. She was
the person that she created, right, Yeah, she came to
be Melika Devereaux because she changed to recreate herself as such,
and we could recreate ourselves so many times in life,
(03:52):
and she was very intentional about it and I loved it,
although you know, her ending wasn't so great. Who inspired Denise?
I think Denise was a conglomeration of those queens. Okay,
if they were the people that I would say, oh,
I have mentors. They are those people and they're doing
these things that are great that you look at and say,
I want to be.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
That when I'm that Auntie, you know, right right?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
But they worked hard, they chose to be here, and
I think I combined something from all of those people
to make Denise.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
You have written in a lot of different genres.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yes, was this the first of its kind in writing
mysteries or did you.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Do this before? And do you have a.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Preference when it comes to So I kind of write
what I feel like. I'm curious about life. I'm a
psychologist by trade. I'm also a coach, so I'm curious
and I write to the question. Okay, So I wanted
to write a mystery. I think there's been elements of
mysteries and other books. I wrote a Simon Foster and
I wrote erotic espionage that life interests me, and so
(04:51):
it was the first mystery. I've written two others in
the same series now that go with it that are
not published yet, but they're coming.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Cinnamon f or the Queen and the Queen got it right?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Do I have a favorite? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
It's like a whole big puzzle, okay, Like how do
I make the puzzle come out? And I'm curious, like
I would love to write science fiction because I cut
my teef growing up on science fiction and thriller, but
I just haven't gotten there yet. I think I also
want to write in television because I like story.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I like telling a story.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Story.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, I asked these questions because that inspires me. I'm
a reader who likes to read a lot of different genres,
and I'm a writer who likes to write a different genre,
a lot of different genres, and so many times in
this business you hear stick with one and I'm like,
I don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I mean, I do have written multiple Like when I
first started out, they said I was chick lit and
then women's fiction. I wrote a bunch of those. They
sort of had a maybe a comedic twist to them.
Then I did some ya young adults and new adults
because those were interesting questions to me as a mother
of at the time of young adults and some of
(05:56):
the puzzles or the questions that they were faced with.
And then erotic espionage came up because I honestly loved
to travel.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
W you're interviewing me here, and.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And Bali and I did a lot of work out
of the country, international assignments, and at the time I
was traveling with my now husband, So it was like,
what happens in these international mysteries that or international espionage,
things that no one wants to solve, Like what are
the questions? So different things from the different cultures inspired me,
(06:29):
and I was like, well, what if? And that's what
made me write that serious So I.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Love that question. What if? What was the hardest thing
about writing this particular book?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I asked, because you do wear a lot of hats,
and I want to talk about all those hats. You've
talked about some of them. But what was it that
was hard about writing this book?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
For you?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I was really interested in making Kiowa Island as much
a character as the people were.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Okay, I felt that.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, so I'm glad you did it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
It's so funny because I was contacted by book club
out of the area.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
They're like, oh, you really know this area?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
They want you to come, And I think they thought
I was a white woman, and you know, they.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Were like, oh, oh, okay, it's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
But I don't know how they could think that when
you see how the characters talk. That was something that
reviewers talked about. They felt like they were talking to
a bunch of black women and they were. They were
clearly taking because they are cultural things in the book.
Although they're affluent, it was clear what culture they were from.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
You know, it's interesting you say that because I written
a book and I was querying and this woman told me, oh,
you need to add this into the query letter, that
the sisters are African American.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I said she.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
I didn't ask why. I just said I said thank
you and thought about it. I'm like, no, I'm not
going to do that. Well, the reason I didn't do
it one.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
I prefer the word black that part. That part to use.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Your imagination that everybody isn't doesn't look like you when
something comes across your desk, ask questions.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Be open minded.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
I mean, if I say they grew up in the
Jim Crow South, that's just not relevant to someone who
isn't black, right, it would just be the South.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I think it's so interesting that that would be asked
of us. When we read characters from the mainstream, mainstream
culture and you can't see air quotes.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
You know, we're not asking them the right that they
were white.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
You know, we're not a monolith, and we can have
all these different experiences and nothing makes those experiences less
black because they don't take place in the stereotypical South.
But we have to make an excuse to say, oh,
they're living this, but by the way, they're black. Why yeah,
you know, I just didn't think that was relevant because
there are people that live like this and we are
especially when you talk about Black Americans, I'm saying black,
(08:46):
not African American. For a reason when you talk about
American descendants of slavery or American survivors of slavery, I
think that we are all different strata strata experiences, and
we all of them are hours and we should embrace
them all.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yes, I agree with you. So we're not finished with
Denise and Trent just yet.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Okay, you already kind of mentioned that, but what is
next in the Queens of Stories?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
So there's a lot of things going on, and you know,
it took me. It's an interesting thing going back and
forth with all the things that are going on and
publishing and not publishing. How should you do this? Should
you be self published? You and I've been to everything.
I'm a hybrid author, so I've been self published, large press,
small press, all of the things in between.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
And I wrote a follow on book called.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
The Dead Don't Speak, and my agent gave me some
edits for it, because some agents will do that, and
I took a long time getting them back because now
people are expecting the next.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Book, right and traditional publishing can take a long time.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
We came to an agreement what's going to happen, and
now she's out marketing that book. So in the Dead
Don't Speak, you focus. Although Denise does pass through that book.
She's in the book, but it doesn't really focus on
her as much as a main character who comes to
Kiowa and Denise decides to say after they solve the
mystery of what has happened to her husband and opens
a business. So the ladies in the Island Secrets form
(10:06):
a full time chapter or their social club one that
I made up. They have this social club. They're going
to have their first chapter meeting. And in their first
chapter meeting, which Denise is hosting at this business that
she is now purchased, a woman shows up and she
is gorgeous, gorgeous, just face beat, hair beat, everything beat,
you know, all down to the ground. And after a
(10:28):
few weeks she ends up dead. Then after she's dead,
they find out that she was trans.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Oh, I want this book.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So if you can imagine all of the things that
happened first fall in the South, in the climate that
we have. You know, we're not new to trans people
or gay people. We just don't talk about it in
our community as much. And so here you are in
this woman's organization in the Deep South, because it is
still the South, and I like to weave in current events.
(11:01):
And I at the time when I was writing this book,
the United Methodist Church was being sued because they had
a thing where, you know, everyone is welcome, but you
can't be clergy. You can't be a lay minister if
you were gay. That's shaping the attitudes that people have.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, when did you know you wanted to write books?
And when did you know you wanted to help other
people write?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So I don't know, so that's interesting. When did I
know I wanted to write books? I think I was
always a writer, but I took me a long time
to arrive as a writer and an art artist in
my head. Okay, no, give give myself permission. So you
know my I was raised by my father, an older father.
He was born in nineteen twenty five, so he was
an older father. I was like a month the last
(11:44):
set of eight kids. So there were things that I
was not going to do. I was not going to
be a dancer, he told me. He says, we didn't
go to have no book dancing niggas in our house.
So forget that, you know, so that was not allowed.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I was not.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
He was like, you need to get a job because
you cannot live on my couch. You need to study
something that's going to make you up a living. So
you know, I studied something science and engineering, and Jason,
that's what I do, right. But when I was in
I was an avid reader always, so I read everything.
I read my father's books, and I remember writing in
middle school doing two things.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I would read.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
My dad would read the newspaper. So I would read
the newspaper, the New York Post, New York Times, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
And I can't So you're a native New York I.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Am a native of New York. Yes, native of New Yorker.
So I can't remember what the editorial was that I
responded to. And they published my piece. I was in
middle school and it was it was it was about
being black, but I can't remember what spurred that.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Wow, right, how old were you.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Theaper?
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yes, it was in the newspaper. And then I was like, oh,
this is interesting. And then so my mother died very young,
and I wrote a piece called the Last Christmas and
I submitted it to Catholic Digests and they rejected me.
But that was okay, and then I was like, okay,
that is it for me. And then I went to
Hunter College undergrad. I'm really in New York, you are, And.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I wrote a.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Piece in that intro that writing class they make you
take as a freshman, and my professor wanted to submit
it for publication, and I said no because I was
too scared.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So I think I was.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Always a writer, like I always journals, I always wrote
things down.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
But then when I was in.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Grad school working on my dissertation, by the time I
got there, I hated it the topic because you're beating
this thing to death for like four years. And to
make myself sit in front of the computer and write,
I would first write something fun for thirty minutes and
then switch over to what I was supposed to be
working on. But I had four hundred pages of fun
before I had dissertation, So and then I put it.
(13:44):
I put it in a desk and then think about it.
And then fast forward five or so years, maybe three years.
I was working at a computer company with this thing
in my this tone because you presupprint everything because your
computer would crash and you would lose word would crash
and you'd lose.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
All your stuff, so you would print it. And there
was a bit.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I lived in Austin and there was a big community
of artists there, and I met a poet who I'm
still friends with now. We actually just produced a film together, Oni,
and she said, I'm going to writers conference.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
You want to go.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I was like, yeah, I got this thing, I guess so,
and so I went to that conference and that was
my first experience.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I remember my daughter was eleven years old.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
She's twenty eight now, I mean eleven months old, she's
twenty eight ye now. And I pitched you get to
pitch to editors and agents, and a few of them
requested it.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
It was good. It was good because I didn't expect
to be there. I was like, oh, let's just go see.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
You know it's someone once told me that I'm an
author advocate.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Now I'm going to say the same thing about you.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Tell us about the other things that you do inside
the literary world. We are actually recording this right now
here in Bali on location because of your advocacy.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
So it's funny. I never thought of myself as.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
A literary advocate, author advocate, author African. I never thought
of that. But last year in Mexico in Merida, at
this event where the writing systress on it, Marita Golden
called me a literary activist. I was like, what, I
never thought of it that way. When I first became
(15:10):
a published author, there were not a lot of people
writing books with characters that looked like I mean, I
think there was Terry McMillan, and I think Elin Harris,
and that was it. I mean Mayangelo, but you know,
that was it. But contemporary fiction at the time that
wasn't necessarily stuff they made you read in school. And
so at that time, at the end of the nineteen hundreds,
(15:34):
in the old days, back in the olden days, there
were a bunch of us because they said blacks don't read,
so it was almost impossible to get a deal. So
we all self published our books.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
There was a bunch of us.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
You know, and then you'd go on tour, so a
lot of times self funds. So all the black bookstores
around the country, and you'd see each other.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
On the road literally, like I remember major.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Books in Atlanta had us an hour or two hours apart,
and one one of us would go in the other
won't come out nice, and you would see each other
and you would get to ask questions, Hey, so and
so what happened with this, Oh, don't do that because
they took my money, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Wow, you know. Then they decided that we did.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
At one point for Borders Books, African American fiction was
the largest selling genre, and so they bought a bunch
of us up, all the publishers.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
I didn't realize that, Yes, and.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
It was all of us that have been self published
now had book deals. But then things change, technology change.
Amazon was only books mainly then and a lot of
the smaller book stores started to close. So we lost
that place where you shared around the water cooler, so
to speak, because it didn't exist anymore. Yeah, and so
(16:41):
there used to be an African American book club at
Sea Conference and I was asked to speak on that.
That went for five years and then went away. And
that was another place where you got to see the
authors because we were all friends and we would go together.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
And I wanted to recreate that.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
As part of being a published author for twenty years,
I wanted that to come back. I was like, I
miss where people could ask you like, hey, how do
you do this? And you could get information, they can
give information, and you're shure.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And I'm a firm.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Believer that you learn things from people no matter where
they are in their journey. So that's why I created
the Writing Systems Summit. And the idea was that authors, writers,
people in this business could come together and other people
who wanted to go where they had been could learn
from them, and you could share and create a community.
And so that was in twenty nineteen, and so other
(17:31):
than the year that we were, you know, pandemics out,
I've been doing this every year somewhere.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
But that's not all you do.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I do have that.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I spent some time being an author, staying home writing,
So I work in tech, you know, and have had
a great career doing that.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
So I help people help people figure out.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
The path to the goal that they are selected, whether
that's writing a book or having more executive presence, or
figuring out how to have more time in their.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Day for themselves.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And it just fit with this, and it fit with work,
and I was already doing it. I help people figure
out why they haven't completed their book really or figure
out what that pivot is. I run another retreat called Unapologetic,
the retreat for Black women to help them learn to
embrace all of their talents and be intentional about what
they want.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
So, what's the most important piece advice you can give
an aspiring writer who wants to develop themselves into an
author and a brand.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Huh, Well, first of all, think about what that means. Okay,
you need to know where you're going, so you can
make a plan to get there.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
It's not a haphazard thing.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
And also think about the time in your day. There's
a lot of things that are going to be on
your plate. And you all know when a Thanksgiving plate
is overloaded out every.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
It gets you got to make room.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
We're only human something you can't do everything all the time,
and so something's got to give.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
And what is that going to be?
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And most of the time you can't say, well, I'm
going to give up my husband or my family or
my children to do this other thing.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
I don't think anyone chooses that, but sometimes it ends
up being.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Then it ends up being that way.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
You have to offload something to make room for the
things that are important to you. And hopefully those things
that are important to you part of them is you.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Yeah, so very important. So what's the last book that
you read that really moved you, that just made you
go damn?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So it maybe go damn. Actually was Mariita Golden's last memoir, okay,
but it was a very literary memoir. I talked talked
about her life as a writer, but it was set
in such great contexts over her going to college post
civil rights and it you understood the context for her,
(19:41):
and it makes me understand her calling me a literary
activist because we are we can be very active with
our words and deeds, and she was. And I thought
it was just so well written and such a great
example of what.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
A memoir.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
You think I'm gonna write a memoir and you're like, I.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Was born by the river. No, you know right right?
Speaker 1 (20:03):
She started in the middle in a way that was
great and they just see how all the things happened
in context.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
So I just loved that book.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
So what's next.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
So one of the.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Things, there's a couple of things I want to I
love the intimacy of the Writing Sisters Summit. I limited
to fifteen attendees, okay, plus faculty. I want to find
a way to make a variation bigger where there's actually
two cohorts going at the same time, there's two lead faculty.
So that's an actually idea that came to me, came
(20:35):
to my husband this morning in a discussion we were
talking through. But I really want to I've written some
film stuff, but I really want to write for television. Okay,
So whether that's taking the content that I have and
having my agent market market it myself, but I really
want to do that. So I actually have written the
whole plan on this, on how this is going to happen,
(20:57):
but I think that's something I want to do. So
for me, when I say I want to do this,
I actually took the Three Island Secrets Kings of Queens
of Kiawa storybooks, wrote out pitches for TV, a story, bible,
season arc, the whole thing. I've learned all the things
and sent it to my agent. And that's why I
wanted The faculty was like, why is she doing that?
(21:18):
Because watch because I kind of visualized all I wanted
to And then after the seminar that we had on screenwriting,
I wrote a whole series our eight episodes, like here's plotline,
A his plotline being here's the conflict.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Here's the out and.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Since yesterday, yes, okay, I am under a tiver.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I was like, okay, nobody's I get focused on that
one thing and then I just do those things and
I love that.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
So if people want to reach out to you, if
they want to find your books, if they want to
be a part of any of your seminars and cohorts,
or if they want.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
To connect with you in any way, or they just
want to follow you.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
On social So I'm on all the socials.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
So Nina Fox with two to exes, I'm gonna switch
to Spanish. Those eavesa now, Noah, everybody's seeing those echis beer.
They won't forget it. So Nina Fox. Ninafox dot com
is my website. I'm on Facebook, I'm on Instagram, I'm
on TikTok, I'm on LinkedIn. They can also find me
in my community inc and Intention, which is where all
(22:19):
the things come together, okay, and they can find out
about the retreats there. They can take recorded yoga classes there.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Forgot yoga. We're sitting in a yoga.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Studio in a yoga studio there, and you are also
a yoga instructor.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
And this is what I'm saying people. This woman really.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Does do it all, but she does it with grace
and intention and enough room for everybody.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
That, to me is the part that I'm most impressed with.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
All the things are in incan attention, and you find
that from my website Ninafox dot com.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Nina, thank you so much for taking time to talk
with us today. Thank you for all that you do
and we've got to do this again.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Thank you for wanting to talk to me. Thank you
for trusting me in Bali.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Skuma.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Another show in the books. Join us for the next
episode of the Public Library Podcast, a place to check
out books
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