Art Arthur - Former Immigration Judge, Center For Immigration Studies Joins Houston's Morning News

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Since twenty two is our time here in Houston's Morning News.
There's likely to be a Supreme Court decision at some
point on the fourteenth Amendment, because once President Trump put
that out there birth you know, is Executive Order on
birthright Citizenship, that it's said about a whole firefight that's
going to be going through the federal court system. We've
already had one federal judge rule against him. Then again,

(00:22):
it's a you know, it's a progressive judge that did it.
Art Arthur joins US former immigration judge also the Center
for Immigration Studies are welcome to the show. I know
you're not a Supreme Court justice, but you were an
immigration judge. How would you interpret the fourteenth Amendment.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, you know, it's funny when you say it like
that at Supreme Court justice or one end of the spectrum,
and I was all the way down at the bottom
of the other one. But yeah, the fourteenth Amendment is
one of those things that everybody assumes. We understand, you know,
everybody who's born in the United States born on US
oil as the United States. But that's not actually what

(01:01):
the fourteenth Amendment says. What the Fourteenth Amendment says is
every person born or naturalized in the United States and
subject to the jurisdiction thereof, is a citizen of the
United States and the state in which they reside. And
it's that clause in the middle, subject to the jurisdiction thereof,
that is the equivocal clause. It's only really ever been interpreted,

(01:24):
you know, effectively once and an eighteen ninety eight case
called Wang Kim Rk and mister Wang Kim Rk was
the child of two nineteenth century version of Green Cart holders,
so they were lawful permanent residents of the United States.
He was born in San Francisco on Stockton Street. He left,
went back to China, came back, and they attempted to

(01:46):
exclude and Supreme Court said, now he's a United States
citizen because he was born here. The court in walk
kim Ark was a bit more expansive, and they said, oh, yeah,
everybody who's born here except for diplomats and you know
places that are being invaded, and you know, certain Indians
are citizens. But that was all dickta, that wasn't actually
necessary to the holding of the case. And yet in

(02:08):
the last one hundred and twenty seven years we've given
out citizenship to pens of millions of people based on
what's probably an imperfect interpretation of law. But it's important, Jimmy,
to understand what Trumps attempted to do here. Trump isn't necessary,
he is saying, But you know, he's saying, we need
to reconsider whether everyone who's born here is a citizen.

(02:32):
And by by telling Social Security in the state department
to stop issuing Social Security cards and passports within thirty days,
what he's really doing is triggering that judicial review you
talked about the judge up in Seattle. He was appointed
in nineteen eighty one when I was fifteen years old,
by Ronald Reagan. But you know that is the first

(02:56):
step in the process that Donald Trump is actually inviting.
He wants to have the Core review this so that
his administration can make arguments for why the fourteenth Amendment
isn't as expansive as many people claim.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
The device, well, it needs to go in front of
the Supreme Court. It we'll go, no double, We'll go
in front of the Supreme Court. And as you said,
what the President has done is triggered that into motion.
Do you think this is something that will lend up
being fast tracked to the Supreme Court.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
I think this is going to you know, and that's
a great question. They answered a lot about the fourteenth Amendment.
That's first time I got it. But it's a great question.
I actually think of all of the Trump cases that
are going to go to the Supreme Court the next
four years, that's probably going to be the slowest because
that's the one that legal scholars are going to run
to weigh in on. We're going to really want to
take a look at the floor debates back in eighteen

(03:41):
sixty eight, take a look at what the states had
to say when this was ratified. Think about this, Jimmy.
I can tell you, you know that you can't put colored
kerosene into a certain vehicle by law, but I can't necessarily,
despositively tell you who is the United States citizen when
they're born here. That's just exceptional when you consider, you know,

(04:03):
how important US citizenship is, how expansive it is, how
many benefits you get for being a citizen. This is
a question that is long overdue for being resolved, and
you know, the process has started, but this will be
a slow process. I think this one's not going to
make it to the Supreme Court until probably twenty twenty
seven or twenty twenty eight.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Oh wow, okay, good to hear from you. Art, appreciate it.
Art Arthur, former immigration judge at the Setup for Immigration Studies,