Carbon Capture & Commercialization CEO - Samir Adams

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the nationally syndicated Energy Mix radio show, produced
by the Energy Network Media Group. The Energy Mix Radio
show will give you an inside look at the energy
industry and how it affects you by talking with industry leaders, experts,
and government officials on the Energy Mix Radio Show.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to the Energy Mix.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
I'm Robert ray Pier, editor in chief of Shale Magazine
and senior energy contributor Forbes. Today we welcome to the
show Samir Adams, who is the CEO of Carbon Capture
and Commercialization. With global carbon emissions rising year after year,
carbon capture has been a hot topic in recent years,
so I'm excited to talk with Snir about recent developments. Samir,

(00:39):
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Appreciate making the time today. I'm excited to talk about
carbon capture and everything else related, so thank you.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
So for those listeners who don't know who you are,
could you take a minute and tell us about yourself
and your background and your company.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah? Absolutely, so, Hello everybody. My name is Senior Adams.
I am by training a computer science engineer software developer.
I have been for the longest time. I went into
the executive ranks early in my career, worked with so
large companies such as Microsoft and WebMD, but my heart
was always in the garage startup. So done a lot
of garage startups helped a lot of entrepreneurs, lunch launcher businesses.

(01:18):
Five years ago, myself my Businessponndor Fernande Sanchez, who's a
CFO and also an engineer by trade, who worked in
a B one B bomber and he worked for some
NASA program, so he's a real rocket scientist.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
So we were sitting at a Panera bread back in
twenty nineteen looking around for what the next thing we
wanted to do out of our garage, and we took
a look at the carbon captures side of the house,
greenhouse gases, climate change. We don't want to get into
that side of the conversation because it's I will just say,
emotionally charged, right. We just focused in the fact that
there's something different than it used to be before. What
we saw it was a landscape that was really not

(01:54):
working when it came to solutions, right, very very expensive
solutions variable carbon dix I being compared to the mode
being emitted. And as entrepreneurs know that for us as
an opportunity to make things better. So we launch a
project process over a period of five years to get
to a point where we have this patented absorber and
the system that we believe is going to be a

(02:15):
game changer for the marketplace. And we are specifically targeting
as our beachead market oil and gas because of their
significant shortfalls of CO two for enhancembal operations. So we're
excited to be talking to you guys about this today.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
So let's talk about carbon capture. What is carbon capture
and why is that important?

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yep? So if you if you look at something like
the Mono Lo Observatory, they are being capturing CO two,
I think as far backs like the fifties or sixties,
and there's a pretty consistent upward trend and it doesn't
take you very long working on LinkedIn or elsewhere. I think.
I think it was an ascid to recently put out
a pretty interesting graphic where it showed the spike and
CO two in the last few decades, and then they

(02:54):
tracked it back through ice core samples and you can
tell there's a pretty significant spike if you look at
this over geological period, right, So what's the problem with that?
So problem with CO two is because the basically the
construction of the molecule and because of the fact that
this person is pretty widely it acts as a really
good heat heat like a blanket right heat of solver,
right heat blocker. So you have infrared radiation comes in

(03:16):
from the sun every day, it's the earth bounces back
up and you as something like CO two acting as
a blanket. And of course other greenhouse casters as well, methane,
carbon monoxide, and nitrosoxide. They all combined to create a
heating a heating effect of the planet. So why is
that a bad use? Well, I mean, depending depending what
you want to listen to, right, I want to get
it to the whole politically or emotionally, tried to aspect

(03:38):
of it. At the end of the day, regardless of
anything else that may or may not be happening with
the climate, we see something that we believe is directly
tied to human human industry, human activity, and that's this
increased amount of emissions in the atmosphere that typically wouldn't
be there otherwise, especially if you take a look at
ice core samples right, and some of the data, historical data,
lots of historical data that is out there. So our

(03:59):
perspective is this okay, So there's a lot of cootwo
in the atmosphere. Some folks say it's bad, some folks
say it's not as natural, but regardless, there's a lot
of ceoto in an atmosphere. Rather than go after carbon
credit markets or trying to get perpetual government funding for
the stuff, which is something as entrepreneurs neither Fernando or
I believe in doing, we said, is there an opportunity
for us take CO two and actually make it a combobie?

(04:20):
And it turns out there is, just within the oil
and gas industry, there's by some counts, a seventeen billion
metrics short metric billion metric tons shortfall of CO two.
I mean that's a lot, right, They're only using two
billion metric tons and they could be using seventeen. That's
a huge market space, market oppertueen for us. So we
unwind out a little bit more. Currently, oil and gas

(04:40):
gets our CO two from about fifty five hundred miles
of carbon dioxide pipelines throughout the US. Carbon dioxide is condensed,
made liquid send down these pipelines. Pipelines have burst a
couple of times and it's bad use them bursts near
near town. So the idea for us was to figure
out a way to take that cotot the atmosphere, accomplish

(05:01):
one goal, but then turn around and commoditize it, create
commodity market force u T which doesn't exist today. Right,
Like some folks might remember oldli with pork bellies, right
or orange juice. We really do feel to commodity. It
can be utilize. If you look outside of oil and gas,
there's a huge huge market for cement and steel and
agriculture and also just in chemical manufacturing in some cases
in biofuel industries.

Speaker 4 (05:22):
Right.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
So there's a huge amount of for sere too. It's
in the air. We're getting distracted by emotional conversation with
lettus folks and the fact that this is basically, if
you will, a gold mine that's floating around that we
can we can utilize without any negative impact really to
the planet, potentially some positive impact, right.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
And I explained the problem to people like this, people
who just don't believe in climate change. So it's undeniable
that carbon dioxide is increasing. That Mono loa observatory. I
used to live in eyesight of that observatory. Right, that's
amazing five years, but that is it's steadily climbing. And
so regardless whether you believe in climate change, we are
doing an experiment with the atmosphere that could have pretty

(06:02):
significant consequences. And we do know that carbon oxide dissolves
in the oceans and it can change the ocean pas.
So there are some implications even beyond climate change that say, hey,
that graph is unsustainable and we have got to arrest that.
And you know, to your point, I look at what's

(06:23):
driving it right now. You know Asia Pacific is driving
carbon emissions higher. The only way we can affect that
in the West is either to get them to stop
using cold or to figure out a way to pull
it out of the air. And so that's why this
conversation is interesting to me, is you know, how are
we going to pull it out of the air. So
with that said, what are some technologies that are currently

(06:45):
used to capture carbon and pull it out of the air.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, so there's of course clime Works, and I'll drop
their name because they're the big, big guys in the industry,
the first ones out there. They've been doing this for decades.
And if you've ever seen the climb Works facility, big huge,
massive fans as the houses multiple multiple acres, and what
they do is they capture the air, captured the carbon
dioxide out of the air, and then they go through

(07:08):
a process of pressurizing and pumping it underground. And they
require specific types of underground geology, specific kinds of rocks
that will be able to capture seals and hold onto it. Right,
as an aside, we see that as a huge waste.
Right you're basically taking gold and throwing it underground and
never never doing anything with it river steel or iron
or take whatever whate or oil, whatever you want to
consider there. So, but that is one approach to this.

(07:29):
The other approach is and there's there's honestly more and
more approaches every day, and it's really cool seal a
bunch of scientific greasas around the role. But the other
general aspect is where you take what would typically be
a geological process and the same sort of type of
rocks underground, you have them in basically trays, you pass
air over them, same sort of air air passing through
them concept, and then you take you go through a

(07:51):
process where you accelerate a geological process through combination of
heat and pressure and then you can regenerate that absorbing
material that natural rock. I want to say it's s limestone,
but I could be wrong in that it's a type
of carbonation's rock if I remember correctly. Sorry, there's a
lot of facts in my head sometimes. But essentially you
take these rocks and you kind of go through regeration process.
Now again, same thing there. They require a lot of

(08:11):
heat eight hundre degrees plus huge amounts of space and
then seguestration. Same situation there as well, and then you
have all sorts of varyations in the themes. Right, you
have folks that are experimenting with different structures as a
substrate for different kinds of chemicals that they would put
into the substrate honeycumbs and our case spheres, but also

(08:32):
different kinds of chemicals they can use to a capture
the CO two. In almost every situation so far, with
some very rare recent exceptions, there's a lot of energy
that's required in the regeneration phase. There was a University
of Boulder, Coloradus study that was done that showed but
we always kind of assumed it didn't. Back in the
happy math at about sixty to seventy percent of the

(08:53):
energies for CO two capture. It comes from the release
of the COTWO process because high amounts of heat frequently
solvent also frequently having to regenerate to solvent by putting
in sorry regenerate dead disorber by putting in additional absorber.
If you look in situations where any clean water douce.
If you're looking situations you have you have constantly putting
your absorbing chemicals into place. It gets to be really

(09:14):
super expensive those a lot after a while, and also
heat as well. Right. Uh, that's why you will see
a lot of the initial direct air capture facilities, the
big huge ones, we're usually close to some sort of
renewable energy. I think the very first one or one
of the first ones is close to geothermal power. So
I mean that was pretty handy, right, it's pretty power.
But that's also a way that the economics are fiddled

(09:36):
with when they shouldn't be, and the costs look lower
than they actually are.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
So you know, you've said there are only thirty commercial
CCS projects globally. What what are the barriers holding back
wide deployment?

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, so you know, you know in our in our
analysis and our research, right, the the biggest barriers are
the amount of costs in the amount of time in
the location. Right when you're looking at three hundred fifty
million dollars or just we'll say several hundred million dollars
for a facility, I mean that's a lot of capital layout.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Right.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
The second part of that is you have to have
these facilities in certain specific doologies that are able to
accept the carbon dioxides being sequestioned underground. In the case
for example of enhance old recovery, they give a lot
of the CO two from power generation, right, So the
CO two comes out of power generation, then it's again
condensed from the pipeline sent down there. So you still

(10:27):
have that same situation to where you have CO two
being generated somewhere else in the country. I think that
somewhere else in the country is being piped there. But
if you go back and a good big, the big
facilities around the world, that's typically in our opinion, the
barrier to entry huge amounts of capital tree huge amounts
of capital will operate, they're not really run as a
probable business because they're dependent on carbon credit markets. For example,
for se question from the CO two and it's really

(10:51):
hard to convince, and especially in the US right venture
capital say hey, let's put money into this capital project
that you will you're not going to see your turn
on for for many, many years, but we'll make somebody
off the carbon credit side and make somebody quote unquote
make somebody by getting some grants and stuff like that.
So that's really not a sustainable business model. So as
a result, governments have to get involved. And you know,
when governments get involved, you're going to have inefficiencies that

(11:13):
come into play. You're going to have jocking for where
to build this. And at the end of the day,
the news Brombit's recently come up, which was fascinating to see.
There was a project I believe it was in Wyoming
called Project Bison. I can't remember who the company was.
It might have been clim Works, might have been someone else,
but essentially they ended up having to pull out of
Wyoming because they could no longer compete for the clean

(11:35):
energy credits. They were applying a person to make the
facility effective because AI data centers were coming to town
and they were gobbling up all those clean energy credits
and there was not available left for them to operate.
And that's yet again another issue, right can't You can't
say you're capturing CO two under one hundred dollars a
mex Ton, which is the Deees Carbon Shot program when

(11:56):
you're sitting at three fifty to nine hundred and you're
also depending on clean energy credits to drive the cost down. Right,
if you take that away, could be significantly more than that. Oh,
twelve hundred, fifteen hundred, two thousand metric town. That's a
lot of money to pull c OG out.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
Okay, So we need to take a quick commercial break there,
and after the break, I want to start to get
into specifics about what your company does. Trust me, So
I'm Robert ray P here with my guests Samara Adams.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
We'll be right back.

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Speaker 4 (13:01):
Welcome back to the Energy Mix Radio.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
I'm Robert rape here with this week's guest, Samir Adams,
talking about carbon capture. So, Samir, what do you see
as the most pressing inefficiencies in traditional carbon capture and
storage systems and how does your team plan to address them?

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, so, I mean, at the end of the day,
you know, the big issue is the fact that you
have these big, massive installations, they have to be in
a rural area typically, and in rural areas the density
of CO two is usually about four hundred a little
bit higher four twenty four, four twenty three depending on
what the readings are in all parts familiar, right, So
that's not a lot of CO two in the air,
and there's a lot of expense in terms of energy.

(13:40):
So you're looking the situation where you're trying to get
as much ut out of the air as possible in
an environment where it's the lowest. It is rural areas, however,
and it's costing you a lot of money, right, a
lot of money to build and operate. So that's that's
the gross inefficiency there. And while most of them she
doesn't publicly transparrently share their rates in their efficiency, if

(14:01):
you do some back in the Napkin math, I mean,
they're very very far down the percentage capture side of
the house, right. So our approach was from day one,
because when a credit commemouty, you've got to figure out
what process we're going to get too in order to
create that sub one hundred dollars per metro ton effect.
So we still believe that one of the ways that
we could do this is the through directors. We have

(14:22):
fans like anyone else does, pushing the air through system. However,
what we're doing is because we've had the ability to
create these systems compactly anything from one square meter boxes
all the up with full size shipping containers forty foot.
We can deploy these pretty much anywhere. So we can
deploy these, for example, right next to an oil well
or an oilfield. You have forty of these units sitting
in the oil field. We have a bunch of CO
two capturing the CO two is higher densities somewhere around

(14:42):
one thousand plus indoors. If you have a CO two meter,
you're actually running somewhere between a thousand and two about
fourteen hundred parts per million of CO two, which is
high and nob really thinks about it until you start
capturing looking some of the stuff, right, But that's the
other benefit we have is we can deploy next to
commercial areas, residential areas can captured the CO too directly
from there. Yeah, I mean, there's a logistic question how

(15:03):
we get to where it needs to go because we're
not sequestering it and we do have a durable filter,
so we don't want to throw this stuff in the landfill.
But at the end of the day, I think we've
solved the compact question, which means we can get closer
to higher densities and the material that we're using enables
us to have feed directly spending much higher capture rates,
which puts us in a good position to be able
to capture higher density CO two at much lower costs

(15:26):
amount of higher efficiency.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
Okay, so you've you've started to touch upon how your
absorber technology works. So one of my issues was always
you know, with four hundred and twenty ppm of carbon
dioxide in the atmosphere. You have to move a million
pounds of air to get four hundred and twenty pounds
of CO two, and that seems like a lot of
energy to move that air. You mentioned places where the

(15:49):
CO two concentration is higher, and that would be one
way to address that. But how how do you address that?

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Is it? Is it energy? Is it ever going to be.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
Energy efficient to directly move four hundred twenty ppm carbon
dioxide and pull that out of the air.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah. So, and also consider this right part of that.
So if you're moving if you move a million pounds
air right in a low density area, it's not very
energy fishing because you're moving million pounds air right and
you're not And also add to that, if you're not
capturing more than a few percent inch points, it's also
extremely energyfishient. So if you can move half the amount

(16:23):
of air at a much much higher efficiency rate, then
you're you're starting to get more effected. But again, at
the end of the day, currently a lot of the
solutions now in the marketplace require a lot of heat
or a lot of energy and or solvents. That also
increases the cost of CO two capture. So with what
we've got, you know, we can move large amounts air.

(16:45):
We still have to move large amounts air because the
densities are still you know, we're talking parts per million.
It's even a twelve hundred to stop very much, but
still at twelve hundred that's three times as much as
you have in rural areas. That's the first benefit we have.
The second benefit is our slid state are technique based
solid state absorber which we can get into you know,
that has a very very high theoretical capture efficiency rate

(17:07):
and we're actually already to point to where we're seeing
the comics come into place and then the release again
very low power in our case, no heat required regenerate
heat passively anyway, which also helps that that's also another
part of there. So we don't have solvents, we don't
have heat that we have to generate as an electric
current we pass through the absorber, and that reduces our
our capture costs as well. So while we would have

(17:30):
the same issue otherwise, the only reason we signed off
and decided to go come out of self with this
was the fact that we're able to get some of
those scientific scientific repre reviewed scientific research based experiments out
of the labs and into a ni genium process. We
were created these units.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
So your technology, you say, has a capture cost below
one hundred dollars a time, and you a little bit
of this earlier. But why is that important and how
does that compare to ind tree averages?

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, so industry averages right now, the cheapest wee see
is about three hundred and fifty metric time. Typically you're
looking about some between the six hundred and nine hundred
metrics on range. The reason one hundred so important is
because the DEE, the US Department Energy, came out with
their Carbon Shot program and they've put a lot of
money into trying to get the industry to get under
one hundred dollars after time. Now, the reason that's viable

(18:22):
is because once you're under a hundred metric tons, under
one hundred metric ton, then you have some commercial viability.
Then you have the ability to and they may not
have been thinking about commercial viability. They're looking at the
carbon credit markets. And that's part of our ongoing challenge
is trying to change the conversation from getting people to
stop thinking about the carbon credit market. I mean, you
can come in. You can sell carbon credits for a

(18:43):
company ten years forward and you know it's one hundredion
dollars for example, Right, Okay, great, fantastic, But at the
end of the day, that money's going to come from somewhere,
and either it's being partially subsidized or the company itself,
like the big ones Google for example, Right, they're actually
paying money out directly. Well, look if they're able to
capture that see to in sequestra sorry not sequester, but
actually traded feet stock out of it, and now the

(19:04):
opportunity to actually have a commercial viable business because you're
capturing a higher efficiency, lower costs. The lower cost means
you can now sell it for a margin at current
market prices and still make money for it. So that's
why that one hundred and medicare ton is so important,
and that's why that was what we set out to
try to achieve from day one.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Okay, So yeah, I've always you know, efficiency is one
thing that I've always said, one of the best carbon
capture technologies is also one of the least efficient, and
that is planning a tree. Because it actures and sequesters
the carbon, it's not very efficient, but you know, I've
kind of only half jokingly said that the real solution
here we plant a trillion trees and got the suck

(19:43):
carbon out of the air and sequest it. So we
need to go into another commercial break here and after that,
I would like to explore practical implementation and you know
what else sets your technology apart from existing carbon capture
methods that tech commercial break. I'll be wrapped back with
Smear Adams on the Energy Mix radio show.

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Speaker 4 (21:22):
Welcome back to your Energy X Radio.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
I'm Robert ray Pier with this week's guest, Samir Adams.

Speaker 4 (21:26):
Samir, how do you envision.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Deploying this technology across various industries and what industries are
best positioned to adopt and benefit from carbon capture technologies?

Speaker 4 (21:35):
Lack yours.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, it's a great question, right, And that's that's the
answer that we can give that a lot of area
competitors can't because their size and the flip requirement and
your requirement. So again, and part of what we set
out from day one is creating something that was modular
and compact because we're not we're not fans of, you know,
big big solutions for big, big problems. We think that
problems can be solved in smaller piece in ways sometimes
so because we have these compact units, because their modular

(21:58):
it could be stacked, that could be combined, you know,
and also of different configurations. We're able to poy much
much closer to the sources of CO two. Because we can
do that, we can tap into, for example, existing CO
two pipelines or on an industry by industry basis that
uses CO two into their existing CO two industrial process
for them to use as feed sock. So for example
oil and gas, that's one of our beachhead markets.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Right.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
We can the poise units directly to the fields which
have a high degree of CO two and methane as
well for example, right, so methane and everything else we
are capable of capture, but we don't have that engineered.
We're able to poy directly to order fields. We can
then tap directly in the industrial processes they have that
take the CO two and create enhance all recovery pipelines,
and we're now part of that industrial process that have

(22:41):
to pipe it in for outside. That ability to poy
at the sources of CO two and those same sources
being consumers of CO two is really a conversation changer. Right,
that's where we start changing the skeptics into believers and
they suddenly realize they'll hang on because of the compactness
and efficiency on the costs unit, we can actually be
commercially viable buying these, deploying them and integrating in our pipelines.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
So the oil and gas industry and I come from
the oln gas industry, and they're notoriously conservative. I'm curious
about your the response you're getting from them, because I
would imagine they would say, what's in this for us?
How how does this impact our profitability? So what do
you what do you say to them? And how has
the response been from them?

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah, so interestingly enough, we we didn't realize we were
going to get as much of a positive response from
oil and gas as we did, which is one of
the reasons why we when we went we went. When
we came out of South we started talking to folks
in the industry, The amount of exciting that we got
was kind of what glombas on in the fact that
this is something to beached market, we should we should

(23:46):
focus on.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Right.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
They saw the benefits even before were able to articulate them.
So if you have something that's und one hundred dollars
a matter of tone, deploy will directly to the field.
You don't have to depend on transportations here too, across
many many miles of pipeline, which is a danger and
a huge costs as well. You now have the ability
to take that CO two and use it as part
of enhance old recovery operations which already have a short
fall seventeen billion metric tons just in the US A loan, right,

(24:09):
so that for them was okay. The value price, the
valio based price that we're using, makes a lot of
economic sense. The payback periods about a year, a year
and a half or so. The economics start making sounds
for the CO two. They're able to use it, and
also it gets sequestered, right, so there's some benefits to
there from them with some of the I think's like
forty five Q tax curtains that they can get. But
it's also a great story they can tell. Right. They're

(24:29):
seen as a very dirty industry, but if you can
tell it's a great story. We're able to capture the
COO two that's coming out the add the source and
use it as party ongoing operations. The quest right that's
a great story to tell.

Speaker 4 (24:39):
So one question I have.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
I can see this being very useful for the ol
and gas industry because they use CO two for enhanced
all recovery. You know they're getting CO two now they're
paying a price for it. How does that compare the
price they pay currently? And if it's less then you
know what you're able to produce it for. How do
you close that gap?

Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, so so currently they're paying any between fifty five
to seventy dollars per macro cround CO two right, and
it doesn't include anything like the section fourty five view credits.
So we're obviously the current industry. You know that companies
aren't anywhere near close to that making sense for them.
But you start taking into effect of the costs like
transportation for example, and safety for transportation, the CO two,

(25:18):
the consistency of the supply as well. That starts changing
the economics. So even though currently today we're just under
one hundred dollars and after ton, theoretically we could be
done under twenty dollars metric ton as we continue to
improve the technology and the improvements are engineering right, So
this is in science is an R and D. This
is just a question of changing the mix of the
chemicals we're using, changes the compounds and the underlyings, improving

(25:40):
the engineering the units themselves to have more insulation, more
and more straightforward cleaner airflows. So all that stuff is
injuring that can be done to bring down the price
from after a ton. So we might be just under
hundred right now, no one else is. But we also
have a very clear pathway based on the science that
we've already shown the work in the engineering world to
get to un well under what you're paying today.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
Okay, So it seems like in the short term government
support is going to be important and furthering this technology.
So I'd like to dive into that after the commercial break,
So we will be right back with Samier Adams on Energy.

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Speaker 4 (27:22):
Welcome back to the Energy Mix Radio.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
I'm Robert ray Pier with this week's guest, Sam Here Adams,
and we are talking about carbon capturing storage. So Sam here,
before the break, we talked about the government support for
technology probably needing to happen in the short term.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
So beyond this.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
Technological innovation that will probably bring the price down further,
what policy changes or or just policies in general need
to continue that would help accelerate carbon captured option.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, so I think the ongoing conversations that are happening
right now. So for example, the conversations ed up to
the I is forty five U tax credits, right, those
are especially beneficial for oil and gas because they could
sequesteror the CO two that they're getting in part of
their handshold you get a double bang, right, you get
credit or sequestering CO two and over time, as the
oil well gets to a point of complete exhaustion, you

(28:14):
sequest or significant amount of city to underground. But also
the ability to get that COE to the munch lower
price at your point source, the good will that get
you get out of that, and also the ability to
be more profitable or have have those cost lowers so
you can get enhanced oil. So when it comes to
the policy change, we're looking at the conversations led to
things such as the forty five Q tax credits really
beneficial oil and gas because they are over time, over

(28:36):
lifetime of the well, they'll be able to sequest their
significant significant amounts of CO two. The government I think
operates the best when it applies funding towards problems and
wants to get resolved, right, And it's always done this
over over history, and anytimes there's been a technological innovation,
uh swing, they've come into place and they funded companies

(28:57):
and typically it's small and medium sized companies, which at
the end the day, they're the ones that are the innovators, right,
the two guys two gals in the garage somewhere come
up with an idea, they're the ones that need this
discoverment funding to bootstrap them to get to a point
where they can actually commercialize this. And to be fair,
for no one who's ever applied to a government project,
commercialization always the question you have to answer as part
of the asking for funding. Right, So then there just

(29:17):
throwing money out the wind. They're like, Okay, we're convinced
this is a good idea. How are you going to
actually commercialize us to make this money? And we have
we have a good story for all that stuff, right,
And when it comes to policy, so there's a double
edged sort you Right, on the one hand, you have
to conserve the fact that the innovators anywhere around the role,
but especially in the US, are the smaller businesses, right,
and then they get big and they get ordered for it.

(29:39):
A lot of them, you know, would not have been
in place, especially the very very early stage of technology
without something about government funding. So to talk about the
policies around that, you you can't talk about, for example,
something that we here all the time right now in
the news, right, efficiency, efficiency, efficiency, Well great, fine, I
don't I don't disagree with efficiency, right, and I think
these grand programs are especially effective than that. But you're

(30:01):
also not going to start taking money out of those
of those programs and systems because those are funding small companies,
small businesses in America, and if you are positioning yourself
as friendly small business, then that's something you're going to
continue to encourage. Overall, from a policy guideline basis, that
comes down questions figuring out, now, how do we want
to fit in with the conversations around around the world.
Europe talks about climate change all the time, but there's

(30:23):
also huge attractors, and to some extent justifiably so they're
saying you're basically just transferring wealth from rich nations to
pro nations. That's not an approach we believe, which is
why we want to get off the carbon credit market
and we want to change the conversation. When people think
about CO two as a commodity regardless of anything else
we want to talk about. For climate science, Let's just
look at the fact there's gold in the edict be
used billions and billions of metrics toimes worth around the world.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
So we're about to you know, speaking of transition, we're
about to transition to a new Republican administration.

Speaker 4 (30:51):
We've had a democratic administration for the last four years.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
Do you see that impacting support in this space?

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, so we're cautiously optimistic that it will's impact support, right,
because you had a democratic executive and the split Congress
passed the IRA law, right, the IRA built which had
a lot of money going into clean technologies and carbon capture,
significant amounts. As you see the new administration coming in,
we have a Republican executive and legislative body who have

(31:23):
traditionally been friendly to businesses and also small businesses. Right,
I don't see that they could justifiably say we're going
to pull all this money out of policy considerations, because
then you're going to see significantly adversely effect small businesses,
some of which have started up and grown specifically to
address this issue. And small businesses aren't typically just sometimes

(31:43):
two people, Right, So I think the different grant programs
defined as like under one hundred employees. So I mean,
you know, if you have a ninety five percent ninety
five percent company sitting in Oklahoma right trying to create
some carbon capture technology, then it'd be a huge blow
to the local at time. We do that, we multiply
that multiple times around. So I think although there's a

(32:04):
lot of talk about belief and climate change, greenhouse gas
and waste all this stuff, at the end of the day,
the dollars do transition into commercial products, right, and the
commercial viability which overall impacts the economy positively, right, So
it's not we're not wasting government money. Yeah, there's some
dead ends in rease, sure that happens, but invariable, you
have a lot of things that come out they're commercially
viable and improve industries that depend on them, and in

(32:27):
this case, you know, optimally we'll also improve the environment too.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
So have your efforts been exclusively in the US? Are
you talking to anybody in other countries? And how does how.

Speaker 4 (32:36):
Does that work? National efforts if there are any?

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yes, so there are. So from day one, we've we've
spread our message internationally, right, So, Asia, Europe, North America
as well a little bit of South America. And it
is interesting depending which audience you speak is so in Asia,
there's a lot of concerns about quality air quality, there's
a lot of concerns about somewhat about in hand soil.
But you know, how can we get to greener you know,

(33:01):
net zero type economy right circlear economy. In Europe there's
a very clear understanding and accept as the fact of
the facts that they're seeing from climate science and their
research there. They recognize the issue. They're doing everything they
can to go green, to go on that zero, to
improve efficiency. There's a whole you know, heat pump conversation,
but I meaned in a lot of government programs over
the years to improve the energy efficiencies of homes and businesses.

(33:23):
And if you travel for Europe you'll see it. You'll
see how much or energy efficient they have they've come.
In the US, it's a bit of a split field.
Right again, it's emotional when it doesn't need to be emotional.
It's like, let's just put the side that for the fact.
You look at the math, you look at the science,
it's increasing. That's because of what we're doing. There's something
we can do. Let's get innovative and character to address that.
And part of that is, which is the great part

(33:43):
of the US right, is we don't believe in throwing money,
governmentey and things forever and ever. We believe in enabling
the innovators in the US, which again US has got
the biggest innovative economy in the world, always has, always
will because we encourage these innovators to come in to
put the work and put the effort in, and then
they get rewarded for it. So it's interesting. But yeah,
we'd like to talk to being on the world because
we think our solution is pretty much applicable to any conversation.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
Okay, yeah, and you have seen to me like Canada
would be a rap opportunity there too, because yeah, yeah,
with all the old gas production and they're interested in,
you know, offsetting our emissions. So we're going to take
a final commercial break here, going into our last segment,
and then I like to ask about how people you
know who have heard this and are interested could get involved, industry, government, investors,

(34:29):
you know, how they could interact with you and get involved.
So with that we'll go into our last commercial break.
I'll be wrapped back with smer Adams on the Energy
Mixt radio show.

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Speaker 4 (36:12):
Welcome back to the Energy Mix Radio.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
I'm Robert Rapeir with the Swish guest Samir Adams, and
we are talking about carbon capture and storage. Samir, what
kind of collaboration or support do you seek from you know, government,
industries or just individual investors to help you scale up
your company's solution.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, I appreciate that question. So you know, at did
and they were two guys in the garage, you came
up with the idea with the overnight success. It took
five years to get to this point, and we've actually
put a lot of our own assets sold assets into
the company to fund it to get to this point
because we've de arrested technology significantly, and because we actually
have something we can point in and say look here
it is. It actually works, not just scientific researcher lamp.

(36:52):
We are looking not just for grants. We're actually in
the process of starting up our first uh first series
A round for funding. So we're talking to different funds
and dcs really around the world. Right, Like I said,
all the job geographical areas that we talked about to
raise the capital, you know, we're looking to raise about
twenty million initial tranche of two million that gets us

(37:13):
to a position we can commercialize this project pretty quickly.
We're really really close, right, We're not talking another few years.
We're talking about maybe three to six months to get
to a point where you can start creating the first pilot
units and then from there probably not three six months
to actually create a production units. So yeah, and it's honestly,
if you look at a capital that we're asking for,
we're not asking for one hundreds of millions of dollars, right,

(37:34):
We're asking for essentially what's the running error for a
lot of these companies. And they're a skeptics when we
comes to them because the numbers we're talking about right, like,
there's no way, and we're like, we.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
Show them, we show them the math, we show them
the manager, we show.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Them how we're doing it what we're doing, and we've
converted every skeptic so far into the lever, which has
been great.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
So you've got current pilot operation. Where is your where
are you located?

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Yeah? So so misest part and I were were in Tablet.
He's a long time flowed in Native I was there
for over thirty years. I moved out to Vegas probably
a couple of years ago to dubid AI work for
a company out of San Diego. Like I said, I'm
a geek at the end of the day, so I
was kind to keep my fingers in that side of
the house, and we actually pulled a lot of that
AI work that I've done, not from that company, but
like in general into our product here because we have

(38:19):
plans for AI enabledment of the units and also geographically based.
So while we are a US based company register in Florida,
we we we believe in a ceign capital structure, so
wherever we get an investment is where that money is
going to go into. So for example, we have an
interest in two different overseas companies in piling our units.

(38:40):
We have one out of California and a lot of
lest Texas here as well. So the intention is as
we continue to develop these industry partnerships, the capital that's
raised or that's that's brought to bear will be used
in those local areas. It's a great story for creating jobs,
which is something we strongly believe in those local economies
industrial manufacturing jobs.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Right.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
We talked about how we ship all these jobs overseas well,
this is opportunity keep them here local and then also
requiring some you know, high tech skills, engineering skills for
maintaining and extending and monitoring some of these units as well.

Speaker 9 (39:12):
So yeah, So for a company that's listened to this
and says, hey, i'd like to I like to find
out more, I'd like to implement carbon capture, what's the
first step you recommend they do?

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Definitely get in touch with us, right, So there could
drop me an email, they could drop an email to
the jail inbox. I'll be happy to provide us. So
you can listen the right on the line if they
want to just follow us for a little bit. You know,
we're pretty active on LinkedIn. We've got a website or
about to releasing new visional website. We have a blog
there that we redpost all over articles to We've written
pretty extensively on this. We're able. We're happy to share
a non NDA deck with them one sake a look,

(39:45):
we also have some NDA conversation we're going to get into.
And honestly, the end of day, our patent is now
a public listed in the USPTO, right, so, happy to
give the number. They can look it up, pull it down.
They can see everything we talk about doing, which includes
beyond co it includes up the greenhouse gases, includes a
different filtration type to technology, and also talks about what
we're doing with AI and our platforms.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
So okay, so let's say you get your funding. Yeah,
what are your priorities and goals for the next few
years and how can listeners stay informed about your progress?

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Yeah? So again, the best way to do is be
keep track of us on LinkedIn, sign up to the
newsletters who put up there. We also have a newsletter
goes up much more rarely from the website.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
Right.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
So we get we got a few million bucks. We
look at this in three month increments. Right, So over
the next four quarters we would get our first pilot units,
design completed and fixed up. We would create in the
next quarter our first two or three full sized pot
units and deploy them into the field. We'd spend about
qure maybe quarter and a half, you know, getting the

(40:43):
real world data from them, figuring out what else we
could tweak and improve, and the idea would be ready
for commercial issues commercialization after them. So looking at about
a six to nine month timeline road now for us
to get there again. For the amount of money we're
liking we're acting for, it's not that significant. And that
goes back to how we kind of approach a problem
in first place. Right off the shelf, components were using
shipping containers, not building stuff from scratch. We're using golf

(41:03):
the shelf heavy duty industrial components with the fans and
the dock work, new powers and everything else. The only
place that we get we get spendy, if you will,
is on the actual absorbers, which is a proprietary technology
that we are in between ourselves and our engineering partners
who are based in the UK. That kind of you
helped us get over a couple of humps from the
engineering side of the house. And even then it's instant expensive, right,

(41:25):
and it's reusable to so we have something that's durable
and usable. So pretty quick time to market. We just
need to refill the coffers here.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
So, looking across this entire space, how do you see
carbon capture evolving over the next decade.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest with you, right, if
we're not able to change the conversation, it's going to
be dead. And a lot of people already looking at it,
and I don't disagree with them that it's a horrible idea.
It's a bunch of money spent and very inefficient, And
they're right there, one hundred percent right. This is why
we kind of came up with what we did. We
want to be able to change that conversation and get
people to realize that it is possible to practice here
to cost effectively and closer to the points of the

(42:03):
points sources, but also the points were the most most
useful as well. We want to get out of those
rural areas when we get closer where the sources are.
You know, we've got we've got a desire to do
something in the urban space as well. We just have
to farewell logistics. You know, if just just the fact
that we're walking running indoors and you're walking an arm
between a twelve hundred and fourteen hundred parts per million,
which is I think about eight hundred parts per millions

(42:25):
when it starts affect human health. Right, there should be
a way for us to cost effectively filter that CO
two out of the air. Because we know we're not
to be able to fix vailation systems, right, so some
problems are are bigger to fix. So that's that's our model,
you know, try to fix the biggest problems as quickly
as possible in small increments, and try to make some
money out of it. And said, depending on you know,
Darbin large as the taxpayer and wealth transfer, which I

(42:47):
think we have a line on We have a line
on it.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Okay, we've got about two minutes left, and I wanted
to ask you, you know, if there's a message that
we haven't covered or anything you'd like to get to
the audience to take away about this conver about carbon capture,
what would it be.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah, So I'd say get the emotions out of it, right,
and look at this as a gold mine. I think
there's a lot of distraction that happens, and some of
it is justifiable, but some of it is just fun. Right,
Let's stop talking about the fact this is a wealth transfer.
To stop talking about the fact that the client science
is proven. It's not proven. Everyone agrees on it. At
the end of the day, we can measurably mark to

(43:25):
the increasing grades of the greenhouse gases and is traced
back in human activity, right, call it cows, oil, wells,
land fills, it doesn't really matter. Whatever it is that
we're doing in society is being to an increase in
gases that typically would not be there otherwise. So just
from that basis alone, let's try to do something and
let's get smart about it instead of, you know, just

(43:46):
depending on credits and voluntary markets and grants and wealth transfer,
whatever we want to call it. Let's get a little
bit smart to put our business hats on and digital
our engineering hats, which I think we're fernand and I
have an advantage, right, were engineers or business people. At
the end of the day, we'd love to change that conversation.
We'd love to say, look, yes, what we've done so
far inefficient, but it was a first generation run. Now

(44:09):
in a position to where we have something that's viable,
let's put some effort into let's rechange it. Thinging across
the board, let's stop thinking about and funding these big,
huge projects that take twenty thirty, twenty thirty five, twenty
fifty before the under one hundreds an next time, we
could be there this year.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Okay, as we close, how can listeners find you again?

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yep, So we're our website at CCNC dot ai. We're
on LinkedIn as well carbon capturing Commercialization. If you want
to drop us a note, drop us a note at
info at CCNC dot ai. They'll come to our general
mailbox and we'll get back to pidkeep Well.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
That's all the time we have for this week's show.
I want to thank you, my guests and your adams
for this very interesting conversation on carbon capture. I'm Robert
rape here with Energy Mix Radio.

Speaker 4 (44:54):
We'll see you next week.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
The Energy Mix Radio Show is where we explore topics
that affect us all in the oil and gas industry.
Every week, our host will interview the movers and shakers
in this fast paced industry. You'll hear from industry experts,
elected officials, and many more on the Energy Mix Radio Show.