Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the nationally syndicated Energy Mix Radio show produced
by the Energy Network Media Group. The Energy Mixed Radio
Show will give you an inside look at the energy
industry and how it affects you by talking with industry leaders, experts,
and government officials on the Energy Mix Radio Show.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to the Energy Mix Radio Show. Today we're diving
into the most pressing issues facing the US the future
of energy reliability. And joining me is David Holt, the
president of Consumer Energy DA Alliance, an organization dedicated to
advocating for affordable, reliable and clean energy SOLILIS for families, farmers,
(00:39):
and businesses across America. David, Welcome back to the Energy
Mix Radio Show. Kim, good to see you, good to
be here. That intro just does not seem to do
justice for what you are doing at Consumer Energy Alliance.
Will you tell our listeners who are new to what
you are doing a little bit about what your permission
is and then all the one things that you're getting
(01:01):
accomplished as you advocate on behalf of families, farmers, and
businesses across America.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, happy to thanks for the question. It's hard to believe,
but in twenty twenty six Consumer Energy Alliance is going
to be twenty years old, and the whole premise behind
the organization is, you know, there was not a group
that was uniting the entire economy to be that true
consumer advocate on energy prices, energy reliability. So what does
(01:30):
energy price and reliability to do to farmers, to manufacturers,
to hospitals, to small businesses, to families all over the country.
And so now twenty years later, we're about four hundred
member companies strong, tens of thousands of individual members strong,
and literally represent the entire US economy in some way
(01:51):
all the above strategies. What do we need to do
from a policy perspective at the local level, state level
out of Washington, d C. We have affordable and reliable
and meet the market requirements and needs for clean energy.
You know, we can do all this at the same time.
We can continue to advance technology and use innovation to
(02:13):
make energy cleaner and meet our kind of environmental goals
and lead the world in environmental improvement. But ensuring that
we have a reliable and affordable energy for all Americans
that keep keep the lights on. Something when you're watching
that pump and you're filling up your gas tank and
you're watching that ticker go by, and when it's four
(02:35):
dollars four fifty eight gallon, it really is hitting that
pocketbook in a major way. You know, all those things
we fight all over the country to ensure that policies
are not draconian, policies aren't restrictive. We're not they're not
mandating one thing over another. They're not blocking natural gas
(02:55):
for new hookups and homes those kind of things. So
it's a it's been a great kind of labor of
love for us on a daily, on a daily basis,
the work at Consumer and Gliance, and it's really up
to all of us as voters to make sure that
our voices are heard and we're pushing back on those
groups that are saying no to pipelines, no to transmission lines,
(03:16):
no to offshore oil and gas, no to onshore shale
and fracking, and we make sure that we in the
United States are leading the world in energy production and
we're meeting our energy needs here at home.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
You know, I love that you that you specified because
when you started to say clean energy. Some of our
shows air in areas like Middland and stuff, and I
get emails a lot about you know, why do you
keep talking about, you know, clean energy and you know
your about oil and gas. Stick to it, and I'm
(03:51):
glad you you know, distinguished that you all are about
all energy. And so I want to mention because we
just released our Shell Magazine issue in which the cover
is the honorable James Campos, who was and served under
the first administration at the DOE. But we had our
(04:14):
writer Robert Wright about the differences between his first administration
the Biden administration's policies on energy and then what do
we see in the future. So I encourage our listeners
to go to Shell mag dot com. It's out, but
it's important because he's saying the same thing you're saying,
and so is President Trump. We are oil and gas
(04:34):
pro oil and gas. We need it, but we also
need to start looking for cleaner alternatives because oil and
gas is not the solution forever. We got to you know,
look at we need more, We need more of everything. Right,
So just wanted to say thank you for saying that,
because I don't want any listener to think that you
all are just advocating on behalf of glean clean energy.
(04:56):
And when I say that, I mean solar and wind.
It's not that it's clean energy to me is also
natural gas. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Listen, we believe that clean energy solutions include oil and
natural gas, and listen, oil and natural gas are gonna
be the dominant energy resource for all of us for
a long time, a long time, hundreds of years. Energy
diversity is not a bad thing. We've got it. We
are starting to have conversations around nuclear energy as that
(05:25):
becomes an additive to oil and gas. But the bottom line,
when you're talking about reliability, intermittent power, which is wind
and solar, they are not a simple one stop solution
for reliability. You have to have that dispatchable baseload power,
(05:47):
which is largely natural gas. Now, the only way to
ensure that the lights stay on when it's really hot
in the summer or really cold in the winter is
that opportunity and ability to peek up, to ramp up
to meet the expanded needs with permanent solutions, which is
natural gas. From a utility perspective, so looking over the horizon,
(06:10):
it's going to be more natural gas, more oil, Wind
and solar will play a role, but what percentage of
that is going to be kind of around the edges
we will start seeing I think from a state level,
and what we're seeing in Washington that the conversation around
nuclear is really picking up, which offers a clean, ready made,
abundant solution. And it's also that base load power that
(06:32):
I'm talking about. It's always available, So how that enters
the mix, particularly in this AI race that we're all seeing.
You know, we're embarking on the AI revolution in the
United States has got to win the AI revolution and
that means a lot more power because when I talk
about AI, we're really talking about power electricity meeting that demand.
(06:54):
So that's going to be a big game changer for
all of us here over the next decade or so.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
And we are going to get into that. And you know,
so I asked you to come on the show because
you recently released a great press release about a situation
that happened far away from us in Spain and Portugal
that many people it didn't even hit their radar yet
it's a very important topic and I want to talk
about that on the show today. I want to talk
(07:20):
also about AI and how it is driving that energy demand.
And you talked about and where is the United States
in this situation? So let's back up and tell me
a little bit about so recently there was a blackout
in Spain and Portugal and it was the entire Spain
(07:42):
and Portugal was in an unexpected blackout. I want to
list vision that. So you just all of a sudden,
everything goes black. If your cell phone was in charge,
you're not contacting your loved ones. If mom is in
the hospital on a ventilator, that how long is that
going to last for in the hospital. That's a life
(08:04):
threatening situation right there. On top of already being on
a ventilator. Traffic lights might not be working, and there's
a lot of things to think about. Where are you
Are you in an elevator when that blackout happens? I
mean start thinking about where what would happen if we
had a blackout? And this is exactly what happened in
Spain and Portugal. The concerns about energy stability are growing worldwide,
(08:32):
and so North America Electric Reliability Corporation has warned that
the US grid is facing increasing risk, especially as AI
driven energy demands surge. So you're here to speak to
us about that, about how American households, our businesses, and
(08:52):
our economy. You know, really depend on this reliable energy
like you you mentioned, and so I'm going to get
into some questions, but I wanted to set the stage
for our listeners. Tell the listeners a little bit about
what happened, first of all, and how significant was it
to you. Do we have any stats on how many
people had unfortunate outcomes as a result of the blackout?
(09:15):
When I googled it, I couldn't find any. But I
was googling it two or three days afterwards. Now it's
been what a couple of weeks since the right You
have any data you can bring us up to speed on,
go ahead, tell us all.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
I mean, I think this serves as the ultimate bad
news warning to all of us that are looking at
and particularly state and policymakers around the country that are
looking to go all in on intermittent power, to ban
or restrict the use of natural gas and utilities to
(09:47):
really create more market our more governmental incentives, just to
build out what they call electrification, which is all wind,
all solar. And that's what we saw in Spain and solar.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So they went all win and all solar, they went
all they were.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
They were the vast majority of the dominant percentage. I
think it was maybe six percent. Don't quote me exactly,
but six percent or so is natural gas. The rest
was wind, solar renewable. So going all in that, that
actually complicates the grid because you have when you have
excess wind and solar, you're you've got to put that somewhere,
(10:27):
and your batteries are all fully charged. So where does
that go. It's got to go back to the grid.
If you don't have enough, then where you're relying on
your batteries, So you have kind of a two way street.
You can't ramp it up ramp it down as effectively
as you can with natural gas. So we didn't they
didn't necessarily have an intermittency problem. They had a problem
(10:48):
where the grid was sending power back and forth in
such a way that it kind of short circuited the grid,
is my simplistic way of describing it. So it was
this unforeseen, calamitous event that, frankly Kim should have been foreseen.
Grid managers, grid operators in the United States and in
(11:10):
Europe all of the world have all have long talked about,
you know, the problem with intermittent power.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Largely, this was not a natural disaster, No.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
This was a man made largely political leaders, not the
grid managers, the guy the politicians that are that are
voting in incentives to go all electric for environmental reasons
that we could argue about a different day, right, But
they were virtue signaling they were doing all they needed
to do whatever whatever their philosophical bent is. They believed
(11:46):
that wind and solar were the only way to go,
despite the fact that they had been briefed, like political
leaders of the United States have been briefed that all
intermittent power does not work. So it was resulted in,
obviously what we saw in Spain and Portugal. You are
correct in some of the numbers post event. They are
(12:09):
they are hard to come by. They really all yes,
oh yes.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And I'm wondering if there's a reason for that. David,
I'm going to give you back the floor. I'm up
on a hard break. Let's go to break. You're listening
to the Energy Mix radio show. We'll be right back.
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Speaker 2 (13:02):
And we're back. You're listening to the Energy Mix radio show.
My guest today is David Holt, the president of Consumer
Energy Alliance. David, before the break, you told us about
something that really tragic happened due to some errors on
the side of the people. Spain and Portugal had a
(13:22):
major blackout. Everything went powerless, and now we're going to
get into what were some of the outcomes. Right before
the break, you said that this was a man made error,
So I'll give it back to you. Explain to us
how this could have how this happened.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Well, you know, I'd even say more specifically, it was
a political error. It was an error on the side
of our political leadership that, for a variety of philosophical reasons,
decided to select intermittent power rather than dispatchable base load
always available power like natural gas we're also seeing the
(14:01):
shutdown of coal fire power plants. We're seeing these shut
down and not continuing natural gas fire power plants. Europe
has shut down a lot of their nuclear facilities. So
this was a series of just really dumb decisions that
led them to the end result that we saw a
couple of weeks ago. And as you talked about, you know,
(14:24):
you're when the power goes out, you're stuck where you're stuck.
You have whether you're in an elevator, whether you're on
a street driving your car, and there're no more traffic
lights where if you're stuck on the sixtieth floor of
your your building in downtown Madrid, then that's where you're
going to be, right. So but then you start thinking about, Okay,
(14:45):
the powers out for a few days. What do you
you know, we all live on refrigeration. We all live
in you know, I'm I'm in Houston, Texas, you're in Texas.
We all live on our electricity and the the heat
of the summer because we want cool homes and cool offices.
(15:05):
So it becomes very quick that we start losing creature
comforts like hot water from the hot water heater, just
every single thing we go about every single day. You
can't get gasoline anymore because the gas pumps don't work
at the filling station. Yeah, nothing in society works without energy? Nothing?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
What about this? That's that's true. So for the listeners,
So you have Mom on a ventilator over there in
Spain and they have all but you know, they've dived
into these unreliable energy sources as the main frame of
what they're going to use. So the hospitals have backup,
(15:50):
but are those backup also generators being driven by what
they're using as their intercourse? And if that's the case,
how long does Mom have to live before that power
goes out? I mean it truly, when I heard about it,
I just kind of stopped. I was in shock. How
is this happening? And what and who are going to
(16:13):
make it? I mean it sounds like a self inflicted,
very traumatic situation happen a crisis. And I'm not even
trying to, you know, get our listeners. I feel it
was a crisis. I don't know where I would be
if the power went out. So let's talk about Spain's
(16:35):
blackout and the U OFS risks because in your press
release you said what lessons or I'm going to ask
you what lessons should the US take from Spain's recent
blackout and how vulnerable is our own grid, because you
know you mentioned earlier before the break that there's no
stats or numbers of how many people the fatalities of
(16:56):
this blackout, how long did the blackout go on for?
So I'm asking a lot of questions I can't find
them as a journalist.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
So the blackout, thankfully just lasted two days ish, So
we don't know the results of that long term impact.
Right if the power goes out for an extended period
of time, and I think after two days, if I'm
remembering this correctly, you know, some of the power came
back and then eventually all the power came back. But
(17:25):
you asked a question about lessons learned for the United States.
I'll give you an example in twenty sixteen. So we
have grid operators all over the United States. Here in Texas,
we have Urcott, We have the PJAM, which is the
Middle mid Atlantic thirteen or fourteen states. You have ISO,
New York, ISO, New England, cal ISO few more So
(17:45):
we all these grid operators manage a region and they're
making sure that their grid is able and sufficient to
meet the energy needs on whatever weather event's going to
happen or peak load day or what have you. So
they're looking at that. In twenty sixteen, we had what's
called one hundred or so intermittency days where a grid
(18:10):
manager or a state official said, Hey, citizens of community
X or state Y, California, we're expecting a peak load
and we don't know if we have enough energy, so
we need you to conserve or we're going to have
a brown out or a blackout.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
And we've been hearing that.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
We've been hearing, and we here in Texas occasionally. We
had two years ago we had about I think the
most we've ever had, which was fourteen. Last year was
a little bit less. Shows Texas is trying to get.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Ahead, right because we're in a heat wave right now.
We just had one the other day. They were like,
be ready, we might have to go on conservation because
of this heat wave coming in.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
I heard that, yep, well you might.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
You might have heard it. I did not.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I might have missed it here in Houston, but I'm
not surprised because it's been very hot. So anyway, we
had about one hundred of these intermittency days, which is
this youphem for, Hey, we're about to have a blackout.
In twenty twenty three, we had three hundred and fifty
intermittency days around the country, So a three and a
(19:12):
half fold increase just in about six seven I guess
eight years, seven years. That's showing the impact of intermittent
power and states that are de selecting natural gas, that
are not extending nuclear things that we need to do
to ensure that we have that sufficient base load power.
(19:33):
That is a strong warning shot of be careful because
we could fall in the situation we just saw in Spain.
So thankfully this session we're seeing more and more states
go okay, we have this thirty gigawott natural gas power plant.
It was scheduled to be mothballed in twenty twenty eight.
(19:53):
We want to extend that. Let's make sure we don't
lose that power. How do we add more natural gas
power to our various grids around the country. Even if
you support wind and solar, we all need to recognize
that wind and solar have to have backup power for
when the sun's not shining and the wind's not blowing,
and that backup power is natural gas, so there's more
(20:18):
recognition there. There's still this polarized fight between Republicans and
Democrats on the right solutions. I many others are very
thankful about President Trump's emergency declaration about energy on day
one when he came into office, and we can talk
more about that in a minute, but that sends a
(20:39):
strong signal to the market and to consumer and gliance
and others that we are going to get serious about
our energy policy. We're going to make sure we meet
our energy needs with homegrown energy and leverage US energy.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Okay, David, let's take a quick break. When we return,
I want to get on the energy policy you talked about,
President Trump. I also want to talk about AI's energy demand.
I want to cover data centers and electricity load. I
want to cover traditional fuels and the grid stability. So
we've got a lot to cover, and the economic consequences
of energy shortages. Let's take a quick break. You're listening
(21:16):
to the Energy Mix radio show, and we'll be right back.
And we're back. You're listening to the Energy Mix radio show.
My guest today is David Holt, the president of Consumer
Energy Alliance. David. Before the break, we talked about what
happened to Spain and Portugal and why, and now I
(21:38):
want to talk a little bit about President Trump was
elected overwhelmingly. He took everything right now. We have the House,
the Senate, and the White House, and we're starting to
see energy the policies moving finally in the right direction.
We have an amazing Secretary of Interior, Bergham, we have
(22:01):
Chris Wright, Secretary of Energy, and we're starting to see
great movement. But we're also seeing some things that might
be throwing people off in the way of We're starting
to see price fluctuation, which is very normal. But tell
me your thoughts. You're an energy expert too in policy,
(22:24):
and I want to get your take. What do you
think of President Trump's energy policies, his selections, and what
are the most important things you want to tell our
listeners before we start getting into AI and demand, I
want to get your thoughts on where we are with
the Trump administration.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Big fan, big, big fan, And you know, it's so
encouraging that the President has chosen experts in their fields.
They understand energy markets, they understand the need to diversify
our energy mix. But to remove red tape, remove redundant regulations.
(23:00):
Remove the de facto ban that we've had for the
previous four years on offshore. Understand that energy. Simplifying our
ability to extract energy get it to the refining system
in the United States. Getting the refined product in a
variety of ways, both petrochemical and gasoline and diesel to
(23:24):
the markets helps lower costs. High energy costs really impact
every man, woman, and child, regardless of socioeconomic status, regardless
of your politics, regardless of your background. It is the
single biggest threat other than overspending from the federal government
(23:45):
to inflation in this country. High energy prices give you
just for example, if diesel prices go up, how often
do we order something that's delivered on diesel truck. Every
single thing in a grocery store is delivered on diesel truck.
Everything in a department store is delivered by diesel truck.
(24:06):
So if diesel prices are thirty forty percent higher, you
are then paying more for everything. That's inflation. So what
President Trump and his cabinet quickly recognized is, hey, we
have to get inflation under control. We have to put
more money in American's pockets. The simple way to do
(24:26):
that is to help drive down the price of energy,
so that we drive down the price of everything. And then,
related to I think your next question here, the other
thing that I think the President and Secretary Burghram and
Secretary Right and Administrator Zelden and all the rest recognized
is the AI revolution is an energy revolution and we
(24:48):
have to win it. AI is so energy intensive. For example,
one Google search today typical Google search, so we do
it uses let's call it one unit of energy a
Google search using AI, or a chat GBT Google search.
Chatter TBT search uses ten units of energy, so it's
(25:11):
ten x.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I did not know that we're telling that because I
cannot live without copilot.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
And pretty soon you know, well yeah, right right, So,
and that's only going to get bigger and bigger and bigger.
Is more of us are using more and more AI
on a daily basis. So all these data centers are
very energy intensive, and they're being built all over the
country very quickly. How we're going to meet that power
(25:38):
Between now and twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty eight, we're
going to need twelve percent more electricity to meet that
demand just from AI. And by twenty forty it's forty
or forty percent are more additional electricity to meet AI demand. Exactly,
We've got to keep meeting the demands of our everyday lives.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
What we already have us. The population is growing on
the planet. Correct, you get a quick break. When we
come back, I'm going to ask you to pull out
your crystal ball and tell me how are we going
to meet all these demands without oil and gas or
this intermitte energy? Are we looking at Spain and Portugal again?
You're listening to the Energy Mix radio show. We'll be
right back.
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Speaker 2 (27:22):
David Holt, the president of Consumer Energy Alliance. Okay, David,
we are on a very big topic. I'll tell you
why I attend Sarah Week every year. We have a
booth out there we're interviewing. That was the theme this year.
And if you know about Sarah Week, you know whatever's
coming in oil and gas and the energy is going
to be there. Whatever you're hearing there, this is the priority.
(27:45):
The year before it was hydrogen. We had a different administration.
This one, this Sara Sarah Week was all about AI
and what I picked up was it was, Okay, everybody
in the energy sector, hurry up and get AI going,
so we stay ahead of China, be careful with cybersecurity,
(28:09):
which we don't really know what that is either because
of them, but we have got to master AI and
that's coming on board, and we have to produce the
power for it. That was the consensus of Sarah week.
So no one has any answers to this. So how
are we going to prepare to handle this increase? And
we're talking about population increasing? I mean, we please tell me.
(28:34):
Are you hearing the energy industry elected officials, anyone who's
going to how are we going to handle this and
still compete with China or stay in front of China?
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah? You know, it's such a good question, and it
is the question of our age right now. I mean,
it really is. And the good news is we're seeing
a lot of state legislators, legislatures including Texas and elsewhere
around the country take more and more of a leadership
role in understanding where the giga wats are going to
(29:04):
come from, understanding and prioritizing natural gas, prior prioritizing pipelines, infrastructure,
transmission lines, lots and lots of discussions about trying to
prioritize nuclear and getting advanced nuclear and small module reactors
to be part of the energy mix. We're also seeing
(29:24):
leadership on the AI side and a lot of these
data centers and Oracle and Google and Meta and others
are having a conversation about, Okay, how do we build
our own little mini power plant that's maybe loosely connected
to a grid in an emergency situation, so that power
plant can give back to the grid, but they can
power their own AI region or you know, a little
(29:47):
mini AI community. So those conversations are also occurring. The
buildouts are happening. You're seeing these in a you know,
a typical AI data center looks like a big box store, right,
It's just this huge warehouse with the flat top and
you know, no windows because everything inside is cooling these servers,
(30:09):
thousands and thousands of servers that are powering at the
AI revolution. So the good news is we political leaders
are recognizing it. They're doing what they can do to
help industry meet these demands. We're hearing more and more
from energy the energy sector. The fact that it was
the number one conversation at Sarah Week, which is a
(30:32):
collection of industry leaders that are coming together in Houston,
Texas every year for these kind of conversations is also
very encouraging. Well, Kim, we've got work to do. When
you talk about a twelve percent increase in electricity demand
just between now in twenty twenty seven. That's that's incredible.
(30:53):
You know, we if we average a two percent increase
year every year, you know, that's a little bit better
than average over the last twenty five years. So twelve
percent just in the next three years two years, and
then another forty percent above that by twenty forty. We
have a lot of giga wants to add to the mix.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
And that's just electricity and our way of living, our
lifestyles that we like to have, you know, AI or
energy demands everything else. Then there's also the population is
growing on the planet and who is supplying energy to
these countries? A lot of it is coming from the
(31:34):
United States. But this is a global problem energy demand,
and it's on the rise of how are we going
to do this on a globalm a global scale too?
So I guess I'm looking at it in the United States,
which is I look at it. This is the most
important country we need to be looking at. Is there
infrastructure changes? I mean, we know we got this avalanche
(31:56):
of demand coming in. Okay, it's like a tidal wave
here we go, So how are we going to protect
our homes from the tidal way that's coming in. If
you have the ocean coming into your house, I would
say run, get out of the area. But we've got
to figure this out. So what infrastructure is necessary? And
I would I'll let you answer that. I think I
(32:16):
know what you're going to say. But what infrastructure you know?
And I'm going to say it's a lot.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
So both transmission and pipeline and storage facilities, additional battery
facilities for battery storage, all that we need it all.
We need it all, we need it very quickly. And
the simple way that I look at it answer it
is we have to get government out of the way.
We have to get those governmental entities that continue to
(32:43):
add hurdles to a permitting process to make the labyrinth
of getting a permit approved more and more difficult. That
allow the permanent protest anti just say no movement to
continue to slow down projects or litigate projects. You know,
every time you see a protest movement in the country
(33:04):
that's stopping a pipeline, we all need to think about, oh,
that's costing me more money, because every time a pipeline
has slowed down slowed down, the price goes up. So
we've got to find a way that we need to
hear concerns. You know, we don't need to stifle communities,
and we need to help. You know, a lot of
times public comments allowed to allow us to make better decisions.
(33:25):
But the permanent stoppage, the the ongoing onslaught of professional
protesters that say no to oil and gas all over
the place for a variety of reasons. We have to
put that in the proper context and stop the never
ending slowdown of all our projects. You know, rather than eight, nine,
(33:46):
ten years, let's give it a few months and then
let's make a decision and let's build it out. If
we're able to do that as a nation, a lot
of the issues that you and I are talking about
right now get solved in a matter of months, not years.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
You know. At Sarah Week also there was a lot
of information that was coming my way, and one of
the things was, so these large aws and these data centers,
they're going to secure their own data, and they were
actually making contracts and have already established with energy companies.
They are going to feed themselves to grow. So I
(34:23):
guess my point is is that they're already securing that
they're going to have enough energy. So if they're secured
and everybody else is secured. We're the only ones, the
American people that might not necessarily be at the table.
So we don't find the solution in quickly, then we're
the ones who are going to go through the intermittes
because they're going to have the power that they need
because this is what they're doing there, this is why
(34:44):
they're entering into these contracts to be able to give
it to us our needs, but also to make sure
that they continue to grow. So good.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Well, i'd say to that, Kim, you know, it's a
little bit of a warning to our political leaders, and
as it can sumer advocate, I say this with all
due respect to everybody, but people are frustrated and angry
at high energy prices. You will see pitchforks and torches
(35:15):
marching on state capitals if we start having groundouts and blackouts.
So it's incumbent upon political leaders to allow industry the
latitude that they need to meet the market demand, both
with AI and our traditional demands. We also have L
and G export demands. We have new petrochemical plants going
in Louisiana and in the Texas Gulf Coast now, so
(35:38):
there's more energy need and more energy demand coming up
across the board. But we cannot put ourselves in a
situation where folks on life support, folks that are on ventilators,
folks that are in the Northeast in frigid temperatures in
the winter go without electricity. Because you have human lives
at stake, and you want to see a protest, we
(36:01):
would see protests.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
So that's one that is worth it. Let's take a
quick break. You're listening to the Energy Mixed radio show
where you write back and we're back. You're listening to
the Energy Mixed Radio Show. My guest today is David Holt,
the president of Consumer Energy Alliance. David, I have a
question about the economics. This is kind of how I
feel we should be rewarding the cities the states that
(36:26):
are accepting these energy policies because these protesters get out
there and they just don't want it in their own backyard.
So why don't we just say, okay, fine, you're taxed more,
and the cities and the states that will accept these
projects get less and that will usually when it starts
hitting their pocketbook, they start thinking a little bit more
about the protest, like going and saying they want no
oil and gas. But yet they drive in a car
(36:47):
and there would makeup on, and they have clothes on,
and they brush their teeth using eye products of oil
and gas. They just don't get it. So don't get it.
If they put it, if we charge them in their
pocketbook and see it in California, they're paying so much
more and they like it. Okay, you're running all your
energy companies out of there. You're going to pay a
(37:09):
whole lot more to not have it in your backyard.
That's how we stop it. So let's talk about the
economic consequences of energy shortage. If America fails to meet
growing demand energy demands. What economic risks do we face,
especially in the AI driven industries. Does this mean China
kicks our butt in the AI revolution because we can't
(37:29):
keep up with it.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
You know, it's we're in a race. It's a revolution.
The United States has declared we have to win. I
think most of the Western world wants the United States
to win, but our biggest adversary here is China. You're right,
So if we don't win it, the Chinese are poised
to win it. Okay, Let's talk about public private collaborations.
(37:52):
So I mentioned earlier that ASW and other large data
centers are contracting with energy sources to make sure they
have enough to make sure they can grow and that
they're stable. I don't blame them at all. I'd be
doing the same thing as a business owner. It's about
you got to protect your future. But what roles do
businesses and policy makers play in insuring energy reliability while
(38:15):
we balance, of course environmental concerns. What does Consumer Energy
Alliance think about this? What do you think about this? Well,
from our perspective, it's uniting all our voices together, right,
the transportation sector, the airline industry, the manufacturing industry, farmers, retirees,
community leaders, small businesses all over, you know. And one
(38:37):
of the things I think that we're pleased to have
played a role in bringing these voices together to a
support the energy industry, but also to amplify why this
is so important and why everyday products that we kind
of take take for granted are so dependent on sensible, affordable,
(38:58):
reliable energy. So it's kind of up I'd say, Kim,
it's up to us. You know, we're all voters here,
and if there's one thing that should be nonpartisan in
our lives. It actually should be energy, you know, because
it affects all of us. If you are at the
poverty level and energy prices go up, you're actually more
adversely affected than someone in the middle class because you
(39:19):
have less disposable income, but you're paying the same you know,
percentage are the same number for that for gasoline, So
it disproportionately impacts folks at the poverty level. So we
all need to recognize that. Republican and Democrats. I'm not
under an illusion that we're coming together in a bipartisan way,
but if there's one thing that could be more nonpartisan,
(39:41):
it could be energy. So that's kind of up to us.
You know, do not vote for a political leader all
the way down to dog catcher. If they don't understand
where energy comes from, they don't understand how we achieve
affordable and reliable that maybe serious about it.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
I'm so sick and tired of hearing these people that say,
always been in a Republican, I've always been a Democrat.
I vote that way. Okay, fine, but if that person
does not know energy, then you know, it's about thinking it.
Thinking about it this way. Name a country that is prosperous.
That is in energy poverty. That is Mike Howard saying that.
And it is a fact. It is a truth. You
(40:18):
won't find one. It is a matter of national security.
Speaking of that, let's talk about energy policies and Trump, finally,
one president is saying it. We have a national energy
emergency going on here. How has the Trump how has
the administration or shifted the energy policy? How has it
(40:39):
shifted since Trump declared the you know, and since trump
declaration impacted America's approach to energy security.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
I mean, finally, you know, one of the things that
I like that you hear from this administration a lot
is the word are the words common sense? Yeah, we
have a common sense energy policy. It is based in reality.
It understands that eighty four percent of all our energy
needs are met with oil and natural gas, and that
percentage is not going to go down in multiple lifetimes.
(41:13):
So let's meet the energy needs. Let's find out the sensible, permanent,
always available solutions like nuclear that can be added to
this mix to augment what oil and natural gas are
doing now. But also recognize that demand is going up
really quickly over these next ten, twelve to fifteen years
so what do we need to do now, what do
(41:35):
we need to do in the future. Let's lock it in,
Let's get rid of the red tape, Let's get policy
leaders that understand the industry, and then ultimately get out
of the way. That's what needs to happen. And we're
actually we're going to need more congressional action than we've
already seen to ensure that some of the things that
the president wants to do are locked in statutorily, permanently,
(41:57):
so the next administration can't come in and change it.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Absolutely. I'm so sick and tired of seeing the penduluance
swing all the way to the left or all the
way to the right with administration. Oil and gas is
out and solar and wind is in, and then here
we go out on the other side when we know
we have a demand that we can't meet. We need
all the above strategy, which is President Trump's, but we
need to focus on what works, which is oil and
gas and then the derivatives of it. It's just insane,
(42:23):
and I'm glad you mentioned the economic part of it
of how the consumer, the most indigent of us all
are the ones who pay the highest price. Like you
mentioned gas price is going up, utility price is going up,
food prices, and the people who live off these checks
are elderly and the poor are the ones that actually
face the greatest challenges when this happens. And yet they
(42:47):
still go and vote for the party that is all
anti oil and gas, which is what's going to lower it.
How do we help secure opportunities that they I mean,
I don't even know what to say. I don't understand
how they do not get this and they keep voting
in the same manner, and yet it actually comes and
(43:07):
falls back on them. I can afford to pay a
little bit more doesn't hurt as much. But people who
live off an eight hundred dollars check a month and
everything has gone up because of the energy demands and
lack of energy. David, I'll give you, you know, the
last word on it.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Aimen you hit it, you know, And I think there
are certain percentage of this country that where you know
that that well are set in their ways and they're
going to vote how they vote, and they they don't
necessarily see the big picture there. The media doesn't do
anyone any favors. We've had this great conversation about reliable affordable.
How to get that? But you know, the United States
is also leading the world in environmental improvement. That's rue.
(43:44):
We absolutely have the cleanest energy in the world and
it's all due to innovation and technological improvement and efficiencies
from the industry. So continue that trajectory. Tell our story.
How does con suomer angelance help you? How do we
continue to have conversations like this? Every little bit helps,
(44:05):
But ultimately it's gonna be up to us. It's voters
and making sure that the midterms that are only a
few short months away already, that we keep sensible policies
in office.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
I have an idea here. Continue to listen to the
show because this is why we educate. Do your research
on who you want to vote for, and do they
have a strong energy policy that must include oil and
natural gas and all above policy, or don't vote for
them because they're going to cost you more money. Trust me, David,
thank you for coming in and talking to us, and
(44:38):
I look forward to having you back on the show.
Don't be a stranger. Come back anytime you want.
Speaker 3 (44:42):
Kim gat Great to visit with you. It has definitely
been too long, and let's do it. I think we
just kind of scratched the surface today. Thank you, and
I going to have gone on for a couple more hours. Absolutely,
thank you for being a guest today. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
The Energy Mixed Radio Show is where we explore topics
that affect us all in the oil and gas industry.
Every week, our host will interview the movers and shakers
in this fast paced industry. You'll hear from industry experts,
elected officials, and many more on the Energy Mix Radio Show.
Welcome to the nationally syndicated Energy Mix Radio show produced
by the Energy Network Media Group. The Energy Mixed Radio
Show will give you an inside look at the energy
industry and how it affects you by talking with industry leaders, experts,
and government officials on the Energy Mix Radio Show.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to the Energy Mix Radio Show. Today we're diving
into the most pressing issues facing the US the future
of energy reliability. And joining me is David Holt, the
president of Consumer Energy DA Alliance, an organization dedicated to
advocating for affordable, reliable and clean energy SOLILIS for families, farmers,
(00:39):
and businesses across America. David, Welcome back to the Energy
Mix Radio Show. Kim, good to see you, good to
be here. That intro just does not seem to do
justice for what you are doing at Consumer Energy Alliance.
Will you tell our listeners who are new to what
you are doing a little bit about what your permission
is and then all the one things that you're getting
(01:01):
accomplished as you advocate on behalf of families, farmers, and
businesses across America.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, happy to thanks for the question. It's hard to believe,
but in twenty twenty six Consumer Energy Alliance is going
to be twenty years old, and the whole premise behind
the organization is, you know, there was not a group
that was uniting the entire economy to be that true
consumer advocate on energy prices, energy reliability. So what does
(01:30):
energy price and reliability to do to farmers, to manufacturers,
to hospitals, to small businesses, to families all over the country.
And so now twenty years later, we're about four hundred
member companies strong, tens of thousands of individual members strong,
and literally represent the entire US economy in some way
(01:51):
all the above strategies. What do we need to do
from a policy perspective at the local level, state level
out of Washington, d C. We have affordable and reliable
and meet the market requirements and needs for clean energy.
You know, we can do all this at the same time.
We can continue to advance technology and use innovation to
(02:13):
make energy cleaner and meet our kind of environmental goals
and lead the world in environmental improvement. But ensuring that
we have a reliable and affordable energy for all Americans
that keep keep the lights on. Something when you're watching
that pump and you're filling up your gas tank and
you're watching that ticker go by, and when it's four
(02:35):
dollars four fifty eight gallon, it really is hitting that
pocketbook in a major way. You know, all those things
we fight all over the country to ensure that policies
are not draconian, policies aren't restrictive. We're not they're not
mandating one thing over another. They're not blocking natural gas
(02:55):
for new hookups and homes those kind of things. So
it's a it's been a great kind of labor of
love for us on a daily, on a daily basis,
the work at Consumer and Gliance, and it's really up
to all of us as voters to make sure that
our voices are heard and we're pushing back on those
groups that are saying no to pipelines, no to transmission lines,
(03:16):
no to offshore oil and gas, no to onshore shale
and fracking, and we make sure that we in the
United States are leading the world in energy production and
we're meeting our energy needs here at home.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
You know, I love that you that you specified because
when you started to say clean energy. Some of our
shows air in areas like Middland and stuff, and I
get emails a lot about you know, why do you
keep talking about, you know, clean energy and you know
your about oil and gas. Stick to it, and I'm
(03:51):
glad you you know, distinguished that you all are about
all energy. And so I want to mention because we
just released our Shell Magazine issue in which the cover
is the honorable James Campos, who was and served under
the first administration at the DOE. But we had our
(04:14):
writer Robert Wright about the differences between his first administration
the Biden administration's policies on energy and then what do
we see in the future. So I encourage our listeners
to go to Shell mag dot com. It's out, but
it's important because he's saying the same thing you're saying,
and so is President Trump. We are oil and gas
(04:34):
pro oil and gas. We need it, but we also
need to start looking for cleaner alternatives because oil and
gas is not the solution forever. We got to you know,
look at we need more, We need more of everything. Right,
So just wanted to say thank you for saying that,
because I don't want any listener to think that you
all are just advocating on behalf of glean clean energy.
(04:56):
And when I say that, I mean solar and wind.
It's not that it's clean energy to me is also
natural gas. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Listen, we believe that clean energy solutions include oil and
natural gas, and listen, oil and natural gas are gonna
be the dominant energy resource for all of us for
a long time, a long time, hundreds of years. Energy
diversity is not a bad thing. We've got it. We
are starting to have conversations around nuclear energy as that
(05:25):
becomes an additive to oil and gas. But the bottom line,
when you're talking about reliability, intermittent power, which is wind
and solar, they are not a simple one stop solution
for reliability. You have to have that dispatchable baseload power,
(05:47):
which is largely natural gas. Now, the only way to
ensure that the lights stay on when it's really hot
in the summer or really cold in the winter is
that opportunity and ability to peek up, to ramp up
to meet the expanded needs with permanent solutions, which is
natural gas. From a utility perspective, so looking over the horizon,
(06:10):
it's going to be more natural gas, more oil, Wind
and solar will play a role, but what percentage of
that is going to be kind of around the edges
we will start seeing I think from a state level,
and what we're seeing in Washington that the conversation around
nuclear is really picking up, which offers a clean, ready made,
abundant solution. And it's also that base load power that
(06:32):
I'm talking about. It's always available, So how that enters
the mix, particularly in this AI race that we're all seeing.
You know, we're embarking on the AI revolution in the
United States has got to win the AI revolution and
that means a lot more power because when I talk
about AI, we're really talking about power electricity meeting that demand.
(06:54):
So that's going to be a big game changer for
all of us here over the next decade or so.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
And we are going to get into that. And you know,
so I asked you to come on the show because
you recently released a great press release about a situation
that happened far away from us in Spain and Portugal
that many people it didn't even hit their radar yet
it's a very important topic and I want to talk
about that on the show today. I want to talk
(07:20):
also about AI and how it is driving that energy demand.
And you talked about and where is the United States
in this situation? So let's back up and tell me
a little bit about so recently there was a blackout
in Spain and Portugal and it was the entire Spain
(07:42):
and Portugal was in an unexpected blackout. I want to
list vision that. So you just all of a sudden,
everything goes black. If your cell phone was in charge,
you're not contacting your loved ones. If mom is in
the hospital on a ventilator, that how long is that
going to last for in the hospital. That's a life
(08:04):
threatening situation right there. On top of already being on
a ventilator. Traffic lights might not be working, and there's
a lot of things to think about. Where are you
Are you in an elevator when that blackout happens? I
mean start thinking about where what would happen if we
had a blackout? And this is exactly what happened in
Spain and Portugal. The concerns about energy stability are growing worldwide,
(08:32):
and so North America Electric Reliability Corporation has warned that
the US grid is facing increasing risk, especially as AI
driven energy demands surge. So you're here to speak to
us about that, about how American households, our businesses, and
(08:52):
our economy. You know, really depend on this reliable energy
like you you mentioned, and so I'm going to get
into some questions, but I wanted to set the stage
for our listeners. Tell the listeners a little bit about
what happened, first of all, and how significant was it
to you. Do we have any stats on how many
people had unfortunate outcomes as a result of the blackout?
(09:15):
When I googled it, I couldn't find any. But I
was googling it two or three days afterwards. Now it's
been what a couple of weeks since the right You
have any data you can bring us up to speed on,
go ahead, tell us all.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
I mean, I think this serves as the ultimate bad
news warning to all of us that are looking at
and particularly state and policymakers around the country that are
looking to go all in on intermittent power, to ban
or restrict the use of natural gas and utilities to
(09:47):
really create more market our more governmental incentives, just to
build out what they call electrification, which is all wind,
all solar. And that's what we saw in Spain and solar.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So they went all win and all solar, they went
all they were.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
They were the vast majority of the dominant percentage. I
think it was maybe six percent. Don't quote me exactly,
but six percent or so is natural gas. The rest
was wind, solar renewable. So going all in that, that
actually complicates the grid because you have when you have
excess wind and solar, you're you've got to put that somewhere,
(10:27):
and your batteries are all fully charged. So where does
that go. It's got to go back to the grid.
If you don't have enough, then where you're relying on
your batteries, So you have kind of a two way street.
You can't ramp it up ramp it down as effectively
as you can with natural gas. So we didn't they
didn't necessarily have an intermittency problem. They had a problem
(10:48):
where the grid was sending power back and forth in
such a way that it kind of short circuited the grid,
is my simplistic way of describing it. So it was
this unforeseen, calamitous event that, frankly Kim should have been foreseen.
Grid managers, grid operators in the United States and in
(11:10):
Europe all of the world have all have long talked about,
you know, the problem with intermittent power.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Largely, this was not a natural disaster, No.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
This was a man made largely political leaders, not the
grid managers, the guy the politicians that are that are
voting in incentives to go all electric for environmental reasons
that we could argue about a different day, right, But
they were virtue signaling they were doing all they needed
to do whatever whatever their philosophical bent is. They believed
(11:46):
that wind and solar were the only way to go,
despite the fact that they had been briefed, like political
leaders of the United States have been briefed that all
intermittent power does not work. So it was resulted in,
obviously what we saw in Spain and Portugal. You are
correct in some of the numbers post event. They are
(12:09):
they are hard to come by. They really all yes,
oh yes.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And I'm wondering if there's a reason for that. David,
I'm going to give you back the floor. I'm up
on a hard break. Let's go to break. You're listening
to the Energy Mix radio show. We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
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Speaker 2 (13:02):
And we're back. You're listening to the Energy Mix radio show.
My guest today is David Holt, the president of Consumer
Energy Alliance. David, before the break, you told us about
something that really tragic happened due to some errors on
the side of the people. Spain and Portugal had a
(13:22):
major blackout. Everything went powerless, and now we're going to
get into what were some of the outcomes. Right before
the break, you said that this was a man made error,
So I'll give it back to you. Explain to us
how this could have how this happened.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Well, you know, I'd even say more specifically, it was
a political error. It was an error on the side
of our political leadership that, for a variety of philosophical reasons,
decided to select intermittent power rather than dispatchable base load
always available power like natural gas we're also seeing the
(14:01):
shutdown of coal fire power plants. We're seeing these shut
down and not continuing natural gas fire power plants. Europe
has shut down a lot of their nuclear facilities. So
this was a series of just really dumb decisions that
led them to the end result that we saw a
couple of weeks ago. And as you talked about, you know,
(14:24):
you're when the power goes out, you're stuck where you're stuck.
You have whether you're in an elevator, whether you're on
a street driving your car, and there're no more traffic
lights where if you're stuck on the sixtieth floor of
your your building in downtown Madrid, then that's where you're
going to be, right. So but then you start thinking about, Okay,
(14:45):
the powers out for a few days. What do you
you know, we all live on refrigeration. We all live
in you know, I'm I'm in Houston, Texas, you're in Texas.
We all live on our electricity and the the heat
of the summer because we want cool homes and cool offices.
(15:05):
So it becomes very quick that we start losing creature
comforts like hot water from the hot water heater, just
every single thing we go about every single day. You
can't get gasoline anymore because the gas pumps don't work
at the filling station. Yeah, nothing in society works without energy? Nothing?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
What about this? That's that's true. So for the listeners,
So you have Mom on a ventilator over there in
Spain and they have all but you know, they've dived
into these unreliable energy sources as the main frame of
what they're going to use. So the hospitals have backup,
(15:50):
but are those backup also generators being driven by what
they're using as their intercourse? And if that's the case,
how long does Mom have to live before that power
goes out? I mean it truly, when I heard about it,
I just kind of stopped. I was in shock. How
is this happening? And what and who are going to
(16:13):
make it? I mean it sounds like a self inflicted,
very traumatic situation happen a crisis. And I'm not even
trying to, you know, get our listeners. I feel it
was a crisis. I don't know where I would be
if the power went out. So let's talk about Spain's
(16:35):
blackout and the U OFS risks because in your press
release you said what lessons or I'm going to ask
you what lessons should the US take from Spain's recent
blackout and how vulnerable is our own grid, because you
know you mentioned earlier before the break that there's no
stats or numbers of how many people the fatalities of
(16:56):
this blackout, how long did the blackout go on for?
So I'm asking a lot of questions I can't find
them as a journalist.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
So the blackout, thankfully just lasted two days ish, So
we don't know the results of that long term impact.
Right if the power goes out for an extended period
of time, and I think after two days, if I'm
remembering this correctly, you know, some of the power came
back and then eventually all the power came back. But
(17:25):
you asked a question about lessons learned for the United States.
I'll give you an example in twenty sixteen. So we
have grid operators all over the United States. Here in Texas,
we have Urcott, We have the PJAM, which is the
Middle mid Atlantic thirteen or fourteen states. You have ISO,
New York, ISO, New England, cal ISO few more So
(17:45):
we all these grid operators manage a region and they're
making sure that their grid is able and sufficient to
meet the energy needs on whatever weather event's going to
happen or peak load day or what have you. So
they're looking at that. In twenty sixteen, we had what's
called one hundred or so intermittency days where a grid
(18:10):
manager or a state official said, Hey, citizens of community
X or state Y, California, we're expecting a peak load
and we don't know if we have enough energy, so
we need you to conserve or we're going to have
a brown out or a blackout.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
And we've been hearing that.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
We've been hearing, and we here in Texas occasionally. We
had two years ago we had about I think the
most we've ever had, which was fourteen. Last year was
a little bit less. Shows Texas is trying to get.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Ahead, right because we're in a heat wave right now.
We just had one the other day. They were like,
be ready, we might have to go on conservation because
of this heat wave coming in.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
I heard that, yep, well you might.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
You might have heard it. I did not.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I might have missed it here in Houston, but I'm
not surprised because it's been very hot. So anyway, we
had about one hundred of these intermittency days, which is
this youphem for, Hey, we're about to have a blackout.
In twenty twenty three, we had three hundred and fifty
intermittency days around the country, So a three and a
(19:12):
half fold increase just in about six seven I guess
eight years, seven years. That's showing the impact of intermittent
power and states that are de selecting natural gas, that
are not extending nuclear things that we need to do
to ensure that we have that sufficient base load power.
(19:33):
That is a strong warning shot of be careful because
we could fall in the situation we just saw in Spain.
So thankfully this session we're seeing more and more states
go okay, we have this thirty gigawott natural gas power plant.
It was scheduled to be mothballed in twenty twenty eight.
(19:53):
We want to extend that. Let's make sure we don't
lose that power. How do we add more natural gas
power to our various grids around the country. Even if
you support wind and solar, we all need to recognize
that wind and solar have to have backup power for
when the sun's not shining and the wind's not blowing,
and that backup power is natural gas, so there's more
(20:18):
recognition there. There's still this polarized fight between Republicans and
Democrats on the right solutions. I many others are very
thankful about President Trump's emergency declaration about energy on day
one when he came into office, and we can talk
more about that in a minute, but that sends a
(20:39):
strong signal to the market and to consumer and gliance
and others that we are going to get serious about
our energy policy. We're going to make sure we meet
our energy needs with homegrown energy and leverage US energy.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Okay, David, let's take a quick break. When we return,
I want to get on the energy policy you talked about,
President Trump. I also want to talk about AI's energy demand.
I want to cover data centers and electricity load. I
want to cover traditional fuels and the grid stability. So
we've got a lot to cover, and the economic consequences
of energy shortages. Let's take a quick break. You're listening
(21:16):
to the Energy Mix radio show, and we'll be right back.
And we're back. You're listening to the Energy Mix radio show.
My guest today is David Holt, the president of Consumer
Energy Alliance. David. Before the break, we talked about what
happened to Spain and Portugal and why, and now I
(21:38):
want to talk a little bit about President Trump was
elected overwhelmingly. He took everything right now. We have the House,
the Senate, and the White House, and we're starting to
see energy the policies moving finally in the right direction.
We have an amazing Secretary of Interior, Bergham, we have
(22:01):
Chris Wright, Secretary of Energy, and we're starting to see
great movement. But we're also seeing some things that might
be throwing people off in the way of We're starting
to see price fluctuation, which is very normal. But tell
me your thoughts. You're an energy expert too in policy,
(22:24):
and I want to get your take. What do you
think of President Trump's energy policies, his selections, and what
are the most important things you want to tell our
listeners before we start getting into AI and demand, I
want to get your thoughts on where we are with
the Trump administration.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Big fan, big, big fan, And you know, it's so
encouraging that the President has chosen experts in their fields.
They understand energy markets, they understand the need to diversify
our energy mix. But to remove red tape, remove redundant regulations.
(23:00):
Remove the de facto ban that we've had for the
previous four years on offshore. Understand that energy. Simplifying our
ability to extract energy get it to the refining system
in the United States. Getting the refined product in a
variety of ways, both petrochemical and gasoline and diesel to
(23:24):
the markets helps lower costs. High energy costs really impact
every man, woman, and child, regardless of socioeconomic status, regardless
of your politics, regardless of your background. It is the
single biggest threat other than overspending from the federal government
(23:45):
to inflation in this country. High energy prices give you
just for example, if diesel prices go up, how often
do we order something that's delivered on diesel truck. Every
single thing in a grocery store is delivered on diesel truck.
Everything in a department store is delivered by diesel truck.
(24:06):
So if diesel prices are thirty forty percent higher, you
are then paying more for everything. That's inflation. So what
President Trump and his cabinet quickly recognized is, hey, we
have to get inflation under control. We have to put
more money in American's pockets. The simple way to do
(24:26):
that is to help drive down the price of energy,
so that we drive down the price of everything. And then,
related to I think your next question here, the other
thing that I think the President and Secretary Burghram and
Secretary Right and Administrator Zelden and all the rest recognized
is the AI revolution is an energy revolution and we
(24:48):
have to win it. AI is so energy intensive. For example,
one Google search today typical Google search, so we do
it uses let's call it one unit of energy a
Google search using AI, or a chat GBT Google search.
Chatter TBT search uses ten units of energy, so it's
(25:11):
ten x.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I did not know that we're telling that because I
cannot live without copilot.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
And pretty soon you know, well yeah, right right, So,
and that's only going to get bigger and bigger and bigger.
Is more of us are using more and more AI
on a daily basis. So all these data centers are
very energy intensive, and they're being built all over the
country very quickly. How we're going to meet that power
(25:38):
Between now and twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty eight, we're
going to need twelve percent more electricity to meet that
demand just from AI. And by twenty forty it's forty
or forty percent are more additional electricity to meet AI demand. Exactly,
We've got to keep meeting the demands of our everyday lives.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
What we already have us. The population is growing on
the planet. Correct, you get a quick break. When we
come back, I'm going to ask you to pull out
your crystal ball and tell me how are we going
to meet all these demands without oil and gas or
this intermitte energy? Are we looking at Spain and Portugal again?
You're listening to the Energy Mix radio show. We'll be
right back.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
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Speaker 2 (27:22):
David Holt, the president of Consumer Energy Alliance. Okay, David,
we are on a very big topic. I'll tell you
why I attend Sarah Week every year. We have a
booth out there we're interviewing. That was the theme this year.
And if you know about Sarah Week, you know whatever's
coming in oil and gas and the energy is going
to be there. Whatever you're hearing there, this is the priority.
(27:45):
The year before it was hydrogen. We had a different administration.
This one, this Sara Sarah Week was all about AI
and what I picked up was it was, Okay, everybody
in the energy sector, hurry up and get AI going,
so we stay ahead of China, be careful with cybersecurity,
(28:09):
which we don't really know what that is either because
of them, but we have got to master AI and
that's coming on board, and we have to produce the
power for it. That was the consensus of Sarah week.
So no one has any answers to this. So how
are we going to prepare to handle this increase? And
we're talking about population increasing? I mean, we please tell me.
(28:34):
Are you hearing the energy industry elected officials, anyone who's
going to how are we going to handle this and
still compete with China or stay in front of China?
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah? You know, it's such a good question, and it
is the question of our age right now. I mean,
it really is. And the good news is we're seeing
a lot of state legislators, legislatures including Texas and elsewhere
around the country take more and more of a leadership
role in understanding where the giga wats are going to
(29:04):
come from, understanding and prioritizing natural gas, prior prioritizing pipelines, infrastructure,
transmission lines, lots and lots of discussions about trying to
prioritize nuclear and getting advanced nuclear and small module reactors
to be part of the energy mix. We're also seeing
(29:24):
leadership on the AI side and a lot of these
data centers and Oracle and Google and Meta and others
are having a conversation about, Okay, how do we build
our own little mini power plant that's maybe loosely connected
to a grid in an emergency situation, so that power
plant can give back to the grid, but they can
power their own AI region or you know, a little
(29:47):
mini AI community. So those conversations are also occurring. The
buildouts are happening. You're seeing these in a you know,
a typical AI data center looks like a big box store, right,
It's just this huge warehouse with the flat top and
you know, no windows because everything inside is cooling these servers,
(30:09):
thousands and thousands of servers that are powering at the
AI revolution. So the good news is we political leaders
are recognizing it. They're doing what they can do to
help industry meet these demands. We're hearing more and more
from energy the energy sector. The fact that it was
the number one conversation at Sarah Week, which is a
(30:32):
collection of industry leaders that are coming together in Houston,
Texas every year for these kind of conversations is also
very encouraging. Well, Kim, we've got work to do. When
you talk about a twelve percent increase in electricity demand
just between now in twenty twenty seven. That's that's incredible.
(30:53):
You know, we if we average a two percent increase
year every year, you know, that's a little bit better
than average over the last twenty five years. So twelve
percent just in the next three years two years, and
then another forty percent above that by twenty forty. We
have a lot of giga wants to add to the mix.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
And that's just electricity and our way of living, our
lifestyles that we like to have, you know, AI or
energy demands everything else. Then there's also the population is
growing on the planet and who is supplying energy to
these countries? A lot of it is coming from the
(31:34):
United States. But this is a global problem energy demand,
and it's on the rise of how are we going
to do this on a globalm a global scale too?
So I guess I'm looking at it in the United States,
which is I look at it. This is the most
important country we need to be looking at. Is there
infrastructure changes? I mean, we know we got this avalanche
(31:56):
of demand coming in. Okay, it's like a tidal wave
here we go, So how are we going to protect
our homes from the tidal way that's coming in. If
you have the ocean coming into your house, I would
say run, get out of the area. But we've got
to figure this out. So what infrastructure is necessary? And
I would I'll let you answer that. I think I
(32:16):
know what you're going to say. But what infrastructure you know?
And I'm going to say it's a lot.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
So both transmission and pipeline and storage facilities, additional battery
facilities for battery storage, all that we need it all.
We need it all, we need it very quickly. And
the simple way that I look at it answer it
is we have to get government out of the way.
We have to get those governmental entities that continue to
(32:43):
add hurdles to a permitting process to make the labyrinth
of getting a permit approved more and more difficult. That
allow the permanent protest anti just say no movement to
continue to slow down projects or litigate projects. You know,
every time you see a protest movement in the country
(33:04):
that's stopping a pipeline, we all need to think about, oh,
that's costing me more money, because every time a pipeline
has slowed down slowed down, the price goes up. So
we've got to find a way that we need to
hear concerns. You know, we don't need to stifle communities,
and we need to help. You know, a lot of
times public comments allowed to allow us to make better decisions.
(33:25):
But the permanent stoppage, the the ongoing onslaught of professional
protesters that say no to oil and gas all over
the place for a variety of reasons. We have to
put that in the proper context and stop the never
ending slowdown of all our projects. You know, rather than eight, nine,
(33:46):
ten years, let's give it a few months and then
let's make a decision and let's build it out. If
we're able to do that as a nation, a lot
of the issues that you and I are talking about
right now get solved in a matter of months, not years.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
You know. At Sarah Week also there was a lot
of information that was coming my way, and one of
the things was, so these large aws and these data centers,
they're going to secure their own data, and they were
actually making contracts and have already established with energy companies.
They are going to feed themselves to grow. So I
(34:23):
guess my point is is that they're already securing that
they're going to have enough energy. So if they're secured
and everybody else is secured. We're the only ones, the
American people that might not necessarily be at the table.
So we don't find the solution in quickly, then we're
the ones who are going to go through the intermittes
because they're going to have the power that they need
because this is what they're doing there, this is why
(34:44):
they're entering into these contracts to be able to give
it to us our needs, but also to make sure
that they continue to grow. So good.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Well, i'd say to that, Kim, you know, it's a
little bit of a warning to our political leaders, and
as it can sumer advocate, I say this with all
due respect to everybody, but people are frustrated and angry
at high energy prices. You will see pitchforks and torches
(35:15):
marching on state capitals if we start having groundouts and blackouts.
So it's incumbent upon political leaders to allow industry the
latitude that they need to meet the market demand, both
with AI and our traditional demands. We also have L
and G export demands. We have new petrochemical plants going
in Louisiana and in the Texas Gulf Coast now, so
(35:38):
there's more energy need and more energy demand coming up
across the board. But we cannot put ourselves in a
situation where folks on life support, folks that are on ventilators,
folks that are in the Northeast in frigid temperatures in
the winter go without electricity. Because you have human lives
at stake, and you want to see a protest, we
(36:01):
would see protests.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
So that's one that is worth it. Let's take a
quick break. You're listening to the Energy Mixed radio show
where you write back and we're back. You're listening to
the Energy Mixed Radio Show. My guest today is David Holt,
the president of Consumer Energy Alliance. David, I have a
question about the economics. This is kind of how I
feel we should be rewarding the cities the states that
(36:26):
are accepting these energy policies because these protesters get out
there and they just don't want it in their own backyard.
So why don't we just say, okay, fine, you're taxed more,
and the cities and the states that will accept these
projects get less and that will usually when it starts
hitting their pocketbook, they start thinking a little bit more
about the protest, like going and saying they want no
oil and gas. But yet they drive in a car
(36:47):
and there would makeup on, and they have clothes on,
and they brush their teeth using eye products of oil
and gas. They just don't get it. So don't get it.
If they put it, if we charge them in their
pocketbook and see it in California, they're paying so much
more and they like it. Okay, you're running all your
energy companies out of there. You're going to pay a
(37:09):
whole lot more to not have it in your backyard.
That's how we stop it. So let's talk about the
economic consequences of energy shortage. If America fails to meet
growing demand energy demands. What economic risks do we face,
especially in the AI driven industries. Does this mean China
kicks our butt in the AI revolution because we can't
(37:29):
keep up with it.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
You know, it's we're in a race. It's a revolution.
The United States has declared we have to win. I
think most of the Western world wants the United States
to win, but our biggest adversary here is China. You're right,
So if we don't win it, the Chinese are poised
to win it. Okay, Let's talk about public private collaborations.
(37:52):
So I mentioned earlier that ASW and other large data
centers are contracting with energy sources to make sure they
have enough to make sure they can grow and that
they're stable. I don't blame them at all. I'd be
doing the same thing as a business owner. It's about
you got to protect your future. But what roles do
businesses and policy makers play in insuring energy reliability while
(38:15):
we balance, of course environmental concerns. What does Consumer Energy
Alliance think about this? What do you think about this? Well,
from our perspective, it's uniting all our voices together, right,
the transportation sector, the airline industry, the manufacturing industry, farmers, retirees,
community leaders, small businesses all over, you know. And one
(38:37):
of the things I think that we're pleased to have
played a role in bringing these voices together to a
support the energy industry, but also to amplify why this
is so important and why everyday products that we kind
of take take for granted are so dependent on sensible, affordable,
(38:58):
reliable energy. So it's kind of up I'd say, Kim,
it's up to us. You know, we're all voters here,
and if there's one thing that should be nonpartisan in
our lives. It actually should be energy, you know, because
it affects all of us. If you are at the
poverty level and energy prices go up, you're actually more
adversely affected than someone in the middle class because you
(39:19):
have less disposable income, but you're paying the same you know,
percentage are the same number for that for gasoline, So
it disproportionately impacts folks at the poverty level. So we
all need to recognize that. Republican and Democrats. I'm not
under an illusion that we're coming together in a bipartisan way,
but if there's one thing that could be more nonpartisan,
(39:41):
it could be energy. So that's kind of up to us.
You know, do not vote for a political leader all
the way down to dog catcher. If they don't understand
where energy comes from, they don't understand how we achieve
affordable and reliable that maybe serious about it.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
I'm so sick and tired of hearing these people that say,
always been in a Republican, I've always been a Democrat.
I vote that way. Okay, fine, but if that person
does not know energy, then you know, it's about thinking it.
Thinking about it this way. Name a country that is prosperous.
That is in energy poverty. That is Mike Howard saying that.
And it is a fact. It is a truth. You
(40:18):
won't find one. It is a matter of national security.
Speaking of that, let's talk about energy policies and Trump, finally,
one president is saying it. We have a national energy
emergency going on here. How has the Trump how has
the administration or shifted the energy policy? How has it
(40:39):
shifted since Trump declared the you know, and since trump
declaration impacted America's approach to energy security.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
I mean, finally, you know, one of the things that
I like that you hear from this administration a lot
is the word are the words common sense? Yeah, we
have a common sense energy policy. It is based in reality.
It understands that eighty four percent of all our energy
needs are met with oil and natural gas, and that
percentage is not going to go down in multiple lifetimes.
(41:13):
So let's meet the energy needs. Let's find out the sensible, permanent,
always available solutions like nuclear that can be added to
this mix to augment what oil and natural gas are
doing now. But also recognize that demand is going up
really quickly over these next ten, twelve to fifteen years
so what do we need to do now, what do
(41:35):
we need to do in the future. Let's lock it in,
Let's get rid of the red tape, Let's get policy
leaders that understand the industry, and then ultimately get out
of the way. That's what needs to happen. And we're
actually we're going to need more congressional action than we've
already seen to ensure that some of the things that
the president wants to do are locked in statutorily, permanently,
(41:57):
so the next administration can't come in and change it.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Absolutely. I'm so sick and tired of seeing the penduluance
swing all the way to the left or all the
way to the right with administration. Oil and gas is
out and solar and wind is in, and then here
we go out on the other side when we know
we have a demand that we can't meet. We need
all the above strategy, which is President Trump's, but we
need to focus on what works, which is oil and
gas and then the derivatives of it. It's just insane,
(42:23):
and I'm glad you mentioned the economic part of it
of how the consumer, the most indigent of us all
are the ones who pay the highest price. Like you
mentioned gas price is going up, utility price is going up,
food prices, and the people who live off these checks
are elderly and the poor are the ones that actually
face the greatest challenges when this happens. And yet they
(42:47):
still go and vote for the party that is all
anti oil and gas, which is what's going to lower it.
How do we help secure opportunities that they I mean,
I don't even know what to say. I don't understand
how they do not get this and they keep voting
in the same manner, and yet it actually comes and
(43:07):
falls back on them. I can afford to pay a
little bit more doesn't hurt as much. But people who
live off an eight hundred dollars check a month and
everything has gone up because of the energy demands and
lack of energy. David, I'll give you, you know, the
last word on it.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Aimen you hit it, you know, And I think there
are certain percentage of this country that where you know
that that well are set in their ways and they're
going to vote how they vote, and they they don't
necessarily see the big picture there. The media doesn't do
anyone any favors. We've had this great conversation about reliable affordable.
How to get that? But you know, the United States
is also leading the world in environmental improvement. That's rue.
(43:44):
We absolutely have the cleanest energy in the world and
it's all due to innovation and technological improvement and efficiencies
from the industry. So continue that trajectory. Tell our story.
How does con suomer angelance help you? How do we
continue to have conversations like this? Every little bit helps,
(44:05):
But ultimately it's gonna be up to us. It's voters
and making sure that the midterms that are only a
few short months away already, that we keep sensible policies
in office.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
I have an idea here. Continue to listen to the
show because this is why we educate. Do your research
on who you want to vote for, and do they
have a strong energy policy that must include oil and
natural gas and all above policy, or don't vote for
them because they're going to cost you more money. Trust me, David,
thank you for coming in and talking to us, and
(44:38):
I look forward to having you back on the show.
Don't be a stranger. Come back anytime you want.
Speaker 3 (44:42):
Kim gat Great to visit with you. It has definitely
been too long, and let's do it. I think we
just kind of scratched the surface today. Thank you, and
I going to have gone on for a couple more hours. Absolutely,
thank you for being a guest today. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
The Energy Mixed Radio Show is where we explore topics
that affect us all in the oil and gas industry.
Every week, our host will interview the movers and shakers
in this fast paced industry. You'll hear from industry experts,
elected officials, and many more on the Energy Mix Radio Show.
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