Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the nationally syndicated Energy Mix radio show produced
by the Energy Network Media Group. The Energy Mix Radio
show will give you an inside look at the energy
industry and how it affects you by talking with industry leaders, experts,
and government officials on the Energy Mix Radio Show.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to the Energy Mix. I'm Robert Riepere, editor in
chief of Shale Magazine. Today we welcome back to the
show Matt Randolph, who is a senior executive at the
old Companies Sentinel Energy. He's also one of the leading
educators on energy issues on TikTok. Matt, or mister Global
as it goes by on TikTok, has half a million
followers and his videos have been viewed one hundreds of
(00:37):
millions of times. He also has a YouTube channel with
over thirteen thousand subscribers. I initially signed up for TikTok
just to be able to comment on mass videos. They
are educational, entertaining, and he has really been embraced by
younger people. Matt, thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Robert glad to be back. Yeah, it's been a while.
I thought it was about six months, a little longer
than that, so we need to have you on here
on a more regular basis because there's a lot to
talk about in energy. So several things I want to
discuss today. But you and I both posted TikTok videos
ahead of this interview where we ask viewers to submit
questions they wanted to ask. They are more than enough
(01:17):
to completely fill the show, so I want to work
some of the men throughout. That means we're going to
cover a lot of ground today, from the recent Supreme
Court ruling overturn of the Chevron case, to subsidies, to
common misconceptionist people have about energy. But before we jump
into that, for listeners who may not be familiar with you,
could you take a minute or two and give us
a bit of your background.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So again, my name is Matt Randolph. I've been in
the oil and gas industry for thirty two years now.
I started as a worm on a drilling rig, worm
being lowest man on the totem pole. Basically I was
doing that. I was working nights on drilling rigs while
going to college. Point in there, I think it was
(02:01):
my third year of college. I realized is I wanted
to be an educator. I realized I was going to
take a massive pay cut leaving the oilfield and going
to teach, So I quit school, but I continued through
the industry, working in different phases of drilling and completion.
Eventually started my own oil and gas service company in
(02:21):
two thousand and four, sold that seven years later, ended
up at Big Oil, got to study abroad. Big Oil
really shaped kind of where they really put me on
the path to where I am today. That's where I
received my formal appointment as an expert, and about almost
(02:42):
three years ago, me and a couple other guys started
a fully integrated upstream oil and gas company, and so
that's where I'm at today.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
All right, excellent. So we've got a lot of talk
about here, and I know a lot of viewers were
curious about, you know, what a day is like your
life and how you how you're oil gets from the
ground to the pump, and so we'll get into all that.
The first thing I want to ask about, though, is
the Chevron case. I had a couple of people ask
about that, and I've been asked about it multiple times,
(03:14):
and I'm curious, can you give us a little background
on that case and how this might impact on gas producers.
Does it impact you?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
I don't think it will, and well, let me back up,
it will, but not in a negative way. So basically,
that original ruling allowed, you know, e p A and
other regulatory agencies different industries to set the rules and
guidelines and standards, you know, for different company standards or
(03:46):
government standards for how companies can operate, you know, like
our emissions rules. You know, those are set forth by
the e p A. And basically the Supreme Court came
in and said, you know, you can't do that anymore. Uh,
these these rules and regulations need to be specifically outlined
in legislation and take that power away from regulatory agencies.
(04:07):
It's my understanding I've spoken to a few attorneys about this,
that the legislation does not cover, or the ruling does
not cover, the recent EPA emission standards that were rolled out.
So anything that you know, was, say the EPA passed
some regulations, if that's already been litigated in court, then
(04:30):
it won't fall under Shevon difference and it can't be changed.
Anything that hasn't been litigated can still be litigated. So
the EPA emission standards that were rolled out last year
have not been litigated, and they will be litigated, I'm sure,
and I am pretty confident they will be overruled by
the United States Supreme Court. And that's how I think
(04:52):
it will impact my company the most, because those are
very stringent emissions rules that would record fire the sale
of a lot of evs, whether people are buying them
or not.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
So right, Okay, So how about emissions in the on
your operations? Do you see any effect there?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Not really the uh and And honestly, I'm not sure
what emission's rules as far as my operations have been
litigated and not litigated. But if they haven't been litigated yet,
they're in place and we're going by them. So you know,
some of those emissions litigations or rules could potentially go
(05:37):
away if they haven't been litigated yet. I don't know
if they've been litigated yet or not. I haven't looked
at much. Our emissions regulations aren't that burdensome on our company.
It's not, you know, it's not something we're too concerned with.
It's nothing we can't handle. So, but we're not a
large company. That would impact large companies much more than
our company. We don't have We're small company, so we
(05:59):
don't have a ton of emissions, right.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I saw a story the other day the Air Force,
I think down in Tucson had a contaminated water site
and they said, hey, we're not and they've been forced
to clean it up, and they said, hey, we're not
going to clean that up now because the Supreme Court
Chevron case says we don't have to clean it up.
So I think, I think that's going to get litigated now.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And and uh, you know, all
of these regulations were based off of the Clean Air Act.
That's the legislation that they used put these regulations in place.
And the fact of the matter is there's nothing in
the Clean Air Act about a lot of the regulations
they have passed because according to the Clean Air Act,
(06:45):
CO two is not a pollutant. So there's nowhere in there,
you know, about vehicle emissions as it pertains to climate change.
So that is something that if they want to keep
in place, is going to have to be specifically put
(07:06):
into the text of new legislation or an update of
the Clean Air Act. And none of that wording exists.
It's not explicitly outlined or stated in any of the legislation,
and that's why I think it'll be overturned. I think
that's a no brainer that it will be overturned by
Supreme Court.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Okay, I want to talk a lot about misconceptions today.
That's your bread and butter is dealing in misconceptions. And
that's what I always do is I nothing gets me
writing faster than somebody saying something that is just blatantly
false and going out there. And you know, my first
viral TikTok video happened a couple of weeks ago because
(07:46):
of that reason. Somebody said something false that I called
him out and said, hey, you know, this is not accurate,
and they've got not all seven hundred thousand views or something.
That's the first one I've got.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
That that was like that.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I know you haven't liked that all the time, but
people people like that. But one of the common questions
I get is about subsidies. And people always have this
impression that the federal government is sending subsidies to oil
and gas companies to operate. So tell us a little
bit about subsidies as they relate to your business. Is
(08:17):
the government paying you to operate?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
No? Now, that's that's not a thing. And a lot
of times people conflate subsidies with tax deductions. When someone
tells me that I get a subsidy, I ask them
do you get a child tax credit? And if they
say yes, then I say, well, then you get a
subsidy too, Like if my tax break is a subsidy,
then so is yours. So but no, you know, we
(08:44):
do get you know, the intangible drilling cost deduction, and
the reason that exists is because you're paying an exorbitant
amount of money for a service that doesn't deliver you
a tangible product necessarily. Like if you purchase, say a
new computer for your office at your business, you get
to deduct that and you get to write that down.
(09:05):
But the money you spend towards drilling or completing a well,
that is not something tangible, That is not a piece
of equipment, that is not a thing it is. It
is you paying for services. So they allow you tax
deductions for those things because it's a huge cost, and
it encourages companies to drill or to go into old
(09:27):
wells and restore them and make them economical again. It
encourages all of that activity. So to me, it's just
another deduction just like any other company would get. But
since our industry is so vastly different than a lot
of other businesses, the way we spend money is different,
(09:47):
So the way we deduct our taxes needs to fit,
you know, the way we spend money. So I don't
view it as subsidies. It's it's been labeled as subsidies
just and it's labeled as subs renewable too. But you know,
renewable energy gets the production tax credit. You could, I
guess you could call that a subsidy, But no, the
(10:09):
government's not sending me any money. I'm sending them a
ton of money. The government makes a fortune on the
oil and gas industry. It is probably one of the
largest inputs into the treasury from an industry is from
the oil and gas industry. So now the government isn't
writing as checks. That's that's not I think.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah. So I read an article I don't know ten
or twelve years ago where oil Change International said oil
companies globally are getting trillions of dollars of subsidies. And
I dug into that spreadsheet they had, and the vast
majority of what they would call a subsidies, like out
of I think it was like seventy or eighty percent
(10:52):
was consumer subsidies. And the way they calculated that was
they said, Okay, in Venezuela, they're selling gasoline for ten
dollars or ten cents a gallon, and that's not market cost.
And so they looked at the difference between market costs
and what they were selling and they called that a subsidy,
and it's consumers are getting it. And Okay, technically, yes,
(11:13):
it benefits the oil companies because it lets them sell
more product. And we have our own here in the US.
We have a lot of subsidies like that, consumer subsidies.
There is a low income heating assistance program that Republicans
have tried to eliminate that multiple times. It is listed
as an oil company subsidy. And every time that tries
(11:33):
to get eliminated, people like Bernie Sanders screen Bloody Murder.
You can't eliminate that. And so what I was telling people,
you know, even the liberals love their subsidies. It's just
you know, they're subsidies by a different name. Said, well,
you're helping for people, yeah, but they are called oil
company subsidies.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And they're the third largest subsidy
behind the wind and solar. Third is you know, helping
people keep their lights on or keep heating the homes,
and those moneies that those people get gets attributed to
us as a subsidy. Another thing they do is implied subsidies,
(12:10):
which we can talk about later. Because I think we're
running short of this segment.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, yeah, you're right, we're coming up to the end
of the segment. Let's take a quick commercial break. Then
after the break, I want to ask you about our
full production records in the US whether you think they're
still room to go higher. I'm Robert Rapier with the
Energy Nex with my guest Matt Randolphin.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Be right back.
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Speaker 2 (13:02):
Welcome back to the Energy Mix. I'm Robert ray Pierre
with this week's guest, Matt Randolph. Matt, you and I
both covered it, and I think we agree that a
new oil production record will be set this year. That
was one of my January energy predictions in Forbes this year,
that we would set another record after we set a
record last year. I am less certain about next year
(13:23):
because it seems oil production is sort of leveling out,
so I'm not sure how much higher we go here.
What are your expectations for next year and will this
be affected by who wins the presidential election this year?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, so I made the same prediction you did at
the end of twenty twenty three that we would set
a new record in twenty four. I think we also
made the same production prediction that oil production growth would
basically be flat in twenty twenty four. I said it
(14:01):
would be flat. I didn't think we would go much higher.
We haven't. We did touch thirteen point four million barrels
a day. I believe it was in July. Personally, I
don't see it going up much more. I won't predict
a specific number. I don't see us going to fourteen.
(14:22):
A lot of people are like, let's go to fourteen.
I don't see that happening. The fact of the matter is,
you know, all of the growth and oil production in
the United States is coming from the Permian Basin, and
while that is occurring, operators in the Permian Basin are
having to pay to get their gas taken away because
natural gas is so cheap. And I can't remember the
(14:43):
exact number, but there's been a lot of days this
year where natural gas was negative on the Henry Hub,
and oil companies are literally paying companies to get their
takeaway on their gas, and that reduces obviously their income.
So that's a problem. The second reason I don't think
it's going to go up much more is because I
(15:05):
don't think US producers want to get into another price
where with OPEK, I think that is a real fear
that they have. I think they think that if they
go to fourteen, or you know, if they push it
a little too far, that ope will flood the market
again and crash everything and bring it to its knees.
We've seen them do it multiple times in the past,
and they're completely aware of that. They're completely aware of
(15:28):
that possibility, and I think they have kind of found
where they're comfortable at right.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah. So, I mean the reason I thought we'd set
a record this year is because we closed twenty twenty
three significantly higher than we opened twenty twenty three. So
my logic was, we're going to have to decline a
lot in order to not set a record. But I
was like you, I don't I couldn't see us going
a lot higher because the think we're starting to flatten out,
(15:56):
and you know that that has happened. I also I
thought we'd set another natural gas production record, and I
think we're going to do that as well, and we
may do that again next year. I don't know, but
actually i'm a little I feel like, you know, oil
production is starting to flatten here, and you know, like
you said, you know, all the sweet spots in the
vermium basin had been drilled and so you know, they
(16:18):
getting into those secondary secondary locations, and I just don't
think they can keep it up like they have over
the past, you know, fifteen years.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah, and another thing that occurred in the Permian basis
Permian basin is. Companies that were looking you know that
we're going through this phase of consolidation, and companies that
were targeting basically getting bought out, they drilled up all
of their best acreage and tried to increase their value
as much as possible, and they did that quickly, trying
(16:48):
to take advantage of this consolidation phase we went through.
So you're absolutely correct. A lot of that best acreage
in the Permian was drilled up pretty quickly through this
phase of consolidation.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
So here's a related TikTok question. I get this often.
You know, people will say, yes, we're we're setting all
production records, but it's all on public land, not all
private land. Sorry, So how much of our oil production
is coming from private land versus public land? I mean,
is there is there truth to that cinema that you
know oil production people will say, you know, it's declined
(17:22):
on public lands, but it's increasing on private lands. And
are the production costs higher on public lands?
Speaker 3 (17:34):
So we didn't increase production. Let's start at the beginning
of just the Biden administration. We've increased production by nearly
two million barrels a day, about the last I read,
four hundred thousand barrels a day of that is from
federal lands, which follows in line with the old You know,
(17:56):
we're always being told twenty five percent of our production
comes from federal lands. So if it's four hundred thousand
and we're looking at a two million increase, that's exactly
you know, twenty five percent are close to it, twenty
twenty five percent. So the cost on private lands, you know,
really depends on what type of leases and contracts, and
(18:18):
contracts departments and oil companies are the those are the
departments that make or break a company. I've seen outrageous
leases where you know, mineral owners were making a mint,
and I've seen them where they weren't. The thing about
federal land is like your royalty structure, and everything is
(18:39):
known before you even try to start on private land.
That's a negotiation process. So and mineral owners and landowners
have especially in West Texas, have become very savvy to
how this business works, and they've gotten much better at
negotiating their leases and their contracts. Overall, I would say
(18:59):
it's much cheaper to produce on private land just because
you're not having to deal with a bureaucracy. But as
long as there's oil there and enough oil for it
to be economical, all companies will drill them.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
That's everyone's drilling in the Permian because that's where the
most oil is. There's oil all over the country in
other places, but it's just not as lucrative as the
perman because of the amount of reserves and proven reserves
and all of that. So we have increased production on
federal land, absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I actually had to look this up the other day
because somebody made that claim on a video. They on
a video posted they said, sure, we're increasing production, but
it's all coming from private land. And I looked it
up and I saw that offshore Gulf, it definitely has increased.
So that wasn't true. You know, there was an increase.
(19:52):
It wasn't as dramatic, but there was an increase. So
we're coming up at the end of this segment. In
the next segment, I want to talk about carrigeen and shale.
Oil not going to be confused with oil shale, the
difference between the two, because I get these questions a
lot that we have a lot of oil reserves, and
you know why we drill it knows. We'll talk about
(20:13):
that after the break. We'll be right back with Matt
Randolf on the Energy Knicks radio show.
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Speaker 2 (21:22):
Welcome back. To the Energy Mix Radio. I'm Robert ray
Pier with this week's guest, Matt Randolph. Matt. I recently
did a little clip where I talked a little bit
about carriage and also known as oil shale, and that's
not to be confused with shale oil. The Green River
formation underneath Colorado, Utah and allow me contain some estimated
three trillion barrels of oil shale resource. That's about three
(21:46):
times the total oil usage of the world to date.
And one listener asked whether mining these oil shale deposits
would be a viable source of oil in the US
for the future. What can you tell us about oil shale?
Speaker 3 (22:01):
I can tell you it's all about cost. It is
it is with anything else. It's all about cost. So
if they can get the cost of that down to
where it's economically viable on you know, a widespread basis,
then they will they will go do it. But just
like any other business, oil and gas industry, they're going
to go after the most efficient, quickest, cheapest way to
(22:24):
generate the most revenue, to create the most product. So
when you start talking about oil shell you're talking about
more expense. You're talking about more expensive you're talking about
more processes and cost. So that's what it all comes
down to with everything, not just the oil and gas industry,
but literally everything is cost versus you know, revenue, and
(22:47):
so that's that's kind of the firewall between you know,
oil shell and shell oil.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Now. I think it's been about twenty years since I
covered this issue for the first time, and I when
I was researching it, I found a nineteen oh six
newspaper article that said oil shale development imminent. And the
reason that hasn't happened is it is, as you say,
related to cost. But this is what I call unfinished oil.
(23:14):
It is uncooked oil. I mean it looks like rocks
and if you heat it up for a long period
of time, it will form oil. But the problem is,
you know, your energy inputs into that process. Shall try
to process or actually frozen area and try to heat
it up and finish that oil, and it's just really
(23:35):
energy intensive. So that's what I try to explain to people.
This is not oil. That is it may not ever
be you know, utilized the energy inputs. If the energy
inputs are greater than once you can get back out
of it, you're never going to utilize it. I often
explain to people who will talk about the Beetlekill forest
all throughout the Mountain States, and they'll say, there's a
(23:55):
lot of bet us there, And I'll say, okay, imagine
that a tree, a dead tree, has the BT value
of one barrel of oil. But to go get it
and bring it in and turn it into oil, it
costs two barrels of oil. You're never gonna use it.
It's gonna stay there till there's a forest fire that
burns the tree down. So that's why we don't often
use those resources. It's all about you know, energy and
(24:16):
energy out, which directly translates into cost in and out.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Yeah, and I worked with the gentleman. When I was
with Shell, I worked with a gentleman named more Important,
and he was one of the leaders of that project
when Shell went up there to try to, you know,
figure out how to do that Shell oil or oil
Shell project. And the stuff he told me they were
doing blew my mind. But it's funny you talk about,
(24:41):
you know, energy inputs in and out. You know, the
only thing I was I could think of when you
were talking about that was hydrogen. I get so many
questions about hydrogen, and I tell them it takes more
energy to produce it than it makes and as long
as that's the case, it's not going to be the
game changer everyone thinks it is. And so that is
the similarity between hydrogen and what we're talking about in Colorado, right.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
And I get questions about hydrogen all the time as well.
I've actually worked in hydrogen. I've produced hydrogen. That most
of the hydrogen we produce comes from natural gas. And
as you say, it takes more energy to get the
hydrogen out than you get from burning the hydrogen. That
is a thermodynamic reality and it always will be. But
there are some really interesting aspects of hydrogen burns to
(25:25):
form just water, and it's possible to think about. You know,
if you had excess solar power at peak times of
the day, you could you could dump that into electrolyzing
water and making hydrogen and then using that on. So
there are some possibilities for hydrogen. But I always have
to temper people's enthusiasm a bit and say, you know,
we don't have vast hydrogen deposits around the world that
(25:46):
we're gonna go drill and produce hydrogen from it's just
too reactive.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Yeah, And it's all about where the technology is going
to take us. Right in the future. The thing with
hydrogen could totally flip over. And you know, when we
speak in these terms, we speak of today and right now,
and we'll see where the technology takes is right, all right,
So we'll take a quick break there and we will
be right back with Matt Randolph on the Engineers Radio Show.
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Speaker 2 (27:24):
Welcome back to the Energy Next Radio. I'm Robert ray
Pere with this week's guest, Matt Randolph. So, Matt, one
of the most common questions I get is about energy independence.
There's many memes going around, there's many claims going around
the US was energy dependent. They're not now, they never were.
H what's the truth? What can you tell us about
the US and energy independence.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
We're absolutely energy independent. By the definition that the EIA uses,
we're more energy independent than we have been. And I
don't know how long. We became energy independent in twenty
nineteen under the Trump administration, and the definition I go
by is we produce more energy than we can sew.
That's the definition that the EIA likes to use. A
(28:10):
lot of people will like to bring imports and exports
into it. I don't like doing that because I think
in the future, we're going to have so much capacity
to store energy that the import export thing could be
flawed and it's not a know accurate depiction of exactly
where we are. And that's why I just stick to
production and consumption. I think this year, I read we're
(28:31):
going to be about seven quads net positive on energy
production versus consumption. Last year, I think we were five
point four. A quad is a quadrillion bt us, by
the way, that's how we measure this energy. So we're
absolutely energy independent. It has It has nothing to do
with whether we import oil from other countries. It has,
(28:55):
it has nothing to do with price, and it has
everything to do with energy security and national security. That's
how I view energy independence. The great thing about energy
independence is that OPEC cannot cut us off anymore. If
OPEK stopped sending us the little amount of oil they
(29:15):
send us now, it would not make a difference on
a hill of beans. It wouldn't matter, and our energy
and national security for me, is the biggest thing about
energy independence. A lot of people equate energy independence with price.
Has nothing to do with price, has nothing at all
to do with price, everything to do with energy security
and national security. We get the vast majority of our imports,
(29:38):
as you know, from our two closest allies or two
of our closest styllized Canada and Mexico. I mean, what
else could you ask for? I think we're doing great.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
So yeah, A actually put out an article in late
June and or early July, and I wrote a formed
article in July, and I high lighted what they said.
So the net energy surplus you were talking about grew
to seven point eight zero quads in twenty twenty three.
That is the highest number on the record. In twenty nineteen,
(30:13):
we had flipped over, and that was after fifteen years
of expanding oil and gas production due to shale, the shaleboom.
In twenty nineteen, what had been a net negative flipped
over to a positive of point six y' one. That
was in twenty nineteen, and we'd grown since then. We
were five point eight three in twenty twenty two, and
(30:36):
last year we hit seven point eight. So by that definition,
we have only increased energy and dependence. And some people
don't want to believe that. Some people say, well, we
still import oil, and I said, well, okay, if that
is your definition, then we also weren't energy independent under Trump.
We were importing oil under Trump. We've been importing oil
(30:58):
for more than seventy years. So if your definition is
no energy imports, didn't know, we're not energy to pennance.
But I don't think that's a very good definition. I mean,
we could get by with no energy imports. It wouldn't
be I mean, we'd have to rejigger our refineries and
so forth. But you know we could get by.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah, it would be an extremely inefficient process. We need
foreign oil, as you know, to rely on what we produce.
You know, there's different types of oil and we need
different types of the will. So for some reason, people
have the perception that we stopped importing oil under the
Trump administration. I don't I don't know why they believe that.
(31:41):
I haven't even heard.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
That.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
I haven't even heard Donald Trump say that. So I
don't know where that perception come from.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
But that's what they I think it's could they conflate
energy independence with no imports. I think that's why they'll
hear Donald Trump say we became energy and dependent, and
they said, Okay, that means we're not in or oil,
and that is not what that means. So you know,
you talked about different kinds of oil, and one thing
I have to tell people is that, you know, over
(32:09):
the years before the shale boom, our refineries retooled to
take heavier and more sour crudes. And that's because that's
what was available worldwide. It was the cheap crude. When
I worked in a refinery in Buildings, Montana, we loved
that Canadian heavy sour crude because we made good margins
on it. And we haven't built a new refinery in
(32:32):
the US in forty years, and therefore most of our
refiners are still tooled to take that heavy oil over
the you know, lighter oil is coming, you know, from
the Permian basin and so forth. But there is a
five point six billion dollar refinery that's been proposed, you know,
not far in Cushion, Oklahoma, in your neck of the woods,
(32:53):
relatively speaking. Do you know the status lab refinery? Do
you think it will get built?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
I do think we'll get built. Everything's been approved from
a state level. What has delayed it is that the
deal for the tract of land that that they were
trying to acquire that fell for it. And and one
of the problems in Cushing, because I went up there
and I visited the economic development manager or a guy
(33:23):
from Cushing that that kind of got them to come there.
One of the problems in Cushing, as you know, it's
it's the it's the crossroad, the pipeline crossroads of the
United States. There's so many pipelines in that city. You
cannot almost build anything anywhere because the whole city is
completely innudated with pipelines that run underneath it. And that
(33:45):
was one of the things that we discussed. So they're
having to find locations that are a little farther away,
which you know, creates other problems because now you're having
to add more pipeline to get to you know, to
tie in and get to their storage facility. But it
is still a goy're they're trying to acquire the land
and I'm pretty excited about it. I hope it. I
(34:07):
hope it all works out for the people in Cushion.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah. I don't know a lot of details about the refinery.
I would guess it is more in line with the oil,
the crude oil that is being produced in the US now,
instead of a heavy sour refinery. It is many years
to put those to create those refineries that would take
that heavy sour oil. And that's why people ask me
why are we Why are we exporting oil and importing
(34:31):
oil when we could just refine our own oil.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
So it's all about economics and refining. A lot of
people don't realize refining is a standalone business. It's a
business of their own, and companies make money importing oil
and refining it, and like it's not, it is all connected,
but they also each one of those phases you know, upstream, midstream, downstream,
they all have a little bit of their own independence
as well.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Right, Okay, I'm going to take a quick break there
and we'll be right back with Matt Randolph on the
Energy Mix radio show. I'll get through some of those
TikTok questions after the break. We'll be right back.
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Speaker 2 (35:45):
Hi. I'm Robert Ray Peter. Welcome back to the Energy
Mix radio show with my guest Matt Randolph. Matt. In
this segment, we got a lot of TikTok questions. I
want to get through some of those questions, so I'm
just going to ask you in this segment one question
after another on some of those that were admitted. So
first one, a listener asked, what are the most viable
(36:05):
renewable energy sources that we should be pursuing.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
I believe on a mass commercial scale is solar. One
thing we are seeing the last couple of years is
declines in wind energy output, even though we have increased
wind energy capacity by over six gigawatts in the last year.
Right now we're at a thirty three month low for
(36:30):
wind energy output because warmer weather, as we are figuring out,
causes a thing called wind droughts where the wind doesn't
blow as much. So we keep adding wind turbines and
producing less and less wind energy, and I'm sure there
will be weather patterns, but that will change. But I
really am a big fan of solar. I don't know
(36:52):
that you categorize nuclear as the no plant energy.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
I don't think you do.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
You would just categorize it as a clean energy. But
I'm a big fan of solar and I'm a big
fan of nuclear. I'm not real big on wind, and
that's kind of where I'm at with that, and I've
been pretty clear with people about my problems with wind energy.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Yeah, I'm fully in agreement there. I wrote an article
on two thousand and seven called the Future is Solar,
and I made that case. I said, eventually we will
get most of our power from solar energy, but it's
going to be a long time. But over the past
five years or so, we do still have globally more
installed wind power. But solar has grown much more rapidly
(37:35):
over the past five years, and it will pass wind
energy in just a few years, and it will continue
to grow. So I agree with you there, Solar. I think,
I mean, we could all have a solar panel on
our houses, but we can't all put a wind turb
in our backyard. So I think potentially a lot of
us will end up producing some of our own electricity
through solar panels. And also I agree with you on
(37:56):
nuclear power. We need to be doing all we can
to get nuclear power out there is a big firm power.
So yeah, agree, agree all those points. And the next
question is why aren't we doing more to promote nuclear
power in the US. What exactly is the problem.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
I think it's fear from you know, you have Chernobyl,
three Mile Island, you know, Fukushima. There's fear around nuclear
power also in the United States. In basically any country
out there that that tries to start a nuclear program,
we try to shut it down. And so I think
it's a lot of fear. Also with nuclear power, it
(38:33):
requires an enormous amount of investment and a very long
time for your return on investment. And so you know,
Congress just recently passed a bill promoting nuclear energy that
was signed by the President, offering more subsidies and credits
to nuclear But it's all about who has the money,
(38:54):
where they put it, and how fast they get their
money back, no matter what we're talking about, that's how
the world turns. And nuclear is not the best place
to park your money. If you're going to invest in energy,
and that is another huge thing that has been something
that has kept nuclear energy down.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Yeah, if you look at the growth trajectory, Chernobyl really
had a negative inflection on the global growth of nuclear
and then Fukushima did it again. You know, nuclear in
the eighties was growing rapidly, and we do have a
very unhealthy fear of nuclear. It's a little bit understandable.
I mean it's invisible, and people are afraid of cants
are so board. But I always try to temper that
(39:32):
by telling people, you know, bananas are radioactive, your spouse
is radioactive. People are radioactive. We have low level radiation
around us all the time. And it's a matter of
you know, as long as we built safe plants. And
I was talking about failed safe plants, plants that can't
melt down. You know, nuclear power is a great source
(39:54):
of you know, big scalable power. All right, Next question,
lots of people like questions about energy policies. What are
some of the energy policies you would like to see change?
What are some you'd like to see put in place.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
I would honestly just like us to have an energy policy.
I mean, we haven't had a robust energy policy in
a very long time. And I often quote the Energy
bill that was passed under the Bush administration, that George
Bush passed. I often go back to that and refer
to that because, in my opinion, I think that was
(40:31):
probably the best energy policy we had had in a
very long time. And I don't and Obama did add
to that a little bit, but that was the foundational
legislation and we haven't had anything close to that since then.
If someone was to ask me today, what is our
energy policy, my answer is I don't know. I don't
(40:52):
know what our energy policy is. And that's what we need.
We need a good, strong energy policy in place that
promotes a full portfolio of different types of energies. And
we've gotten to this place where we're so just adamant
about destroying fossil fuels and lifting up renewables. That's not
(41:13):
an energy policy. That is not a policy. That is
a slogan or an ideology. It's not a policy. So
a well rounded, you know, robust energy policy that clearly
outlines where we are, where we're going into the end
of the future, and what we need to do, because
the truth is, we don't have an energy policy anymore.
(41:33):
We just kind of do everything, you know, we fly
out a seat in our pants, the same way we
do with our budget. You know, we just pass continuing
you know, resolutions to keep the government open instead of
actually sitting down and creating a budget. So that's what
we need to do with energy. We need to actually
have an energy policy.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah. The funny thing about that Bush policy. I get
a lot of questions for people to say, oh, that
secret Chainey task force where they are to rack up
and did these things. And I said that that policy,
what what they did. They had tax credits for solar,
for bile fuels, for wind energy, for efficiency, there are
so many That was such a comprehensive, broad based energy
(42:12):
bill that came out of Bush that you know, people
who think, well Bush was an old guy, you know
he was. He was an all of the above guy
us and that was that was a good energy bill
underneath him. I actually dug into that in my book
power Plays. I went and talked about the Cheney task
Force and actually listed all of the things that task force,
all the recommendations they made, and in the Minutes Republic.
(42:37):
You know, people think it was all top secret. Look
it's a little top secret. You wouldn't know anything about it.
So we've got about a minute left. What's what's the
most popular misconception you think people have about energy? Oh?
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Man, I there's so many there, there is so many.
I think that the president controls gas prices.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Yeah, that's that. That, that's it. That uh uh. As
soon as there's a presidential turnover and gas prices start
to go up, they think, okay, president does that. And
I always have to tell you president can't do much
about gas prices. I mean, very few actions a president
can take that will affect gas prices, and more more
often it's the macro factors that are occurring or or
(43:19):
or OPEK. I mean, OPEK has a major influence on
oil and gas prices. But you know, Exon Mobil doesn't,
the president doesn't. Politicians in general.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Yeah, and a lot of people don't.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Go ahead, now, go ahead. I was gonna I was
gonna wrap up, go ahead and finish your thought.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
No, I was gonna say, if if today we had
the refining capacity we had in twenty eighteen, we would
have the gas prices we had in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. There we have it.
That's all the time we have for this show. Matt.
I want to thank you for being a guest again,
and let's not wait so long. And you know, we
should do another TikTok live so and that was a
big hit, so we should. Yeah, yeah, a lot of people.
I was very impressed with a number of people that
dropped in on that. So you know, anytime we can
(44:04):
help people learn something about energy, I'm on board.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
So it would be bigger now because we both have
a lot more followers than we did that.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm closing in on thirty thousand here and now,
and I think you're half a million now. The funny
thing is people often tag you in my videos to
say is this correct? They want to double check and
make sure, okay, as what he's saying true. All right,
I appreciate it and we'll see you next time. Thank you, Robert.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
The Energy Mixed Radio Show is where we explore topics
that affect us all in the oil and gas industry.
Every week, our host will interview the movers and shakers
in this fast paced industry. You'll hear from industry experts,
elected officials, and many more. On the Energy Mixed Radio
show
Welcome to the nationally syndicated Energy Mix radio show produced
by the Energy Network Media Group. The Energy Mix Radio
show will give you an inside look at the energy
industry and how it affects you by talking with industry leaders, experts,
and government officials on the Energy Mix Radio Show.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to the Energy Mix. I'm Robert Riepere, editor in
chief of Shale Magazine. Today we welcome back to the
show Matt Randolph, who is a senior executive at the
old Companies Sentinel Energy. He's also one of the leading
educators on energy issues on TikTok. Matt, or mister Global
as it goes by on TikTok, has half a million
followers and his videos have been viewed one hundreds of
(00:37):
millions of times. He also has a YouTube channel with
over thirteen thousand subscribers. I initially signed up for TikTok
just to be able to comment on mass videos. They
are educational, entertaining, and he has really been embraced by
younger people. Matt, thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Robert glad to be back. Yeah, it's been a while.
I thought it was about six months, a little longer
than that, so we need to have you on here
on a more regular basis because there's a lot to
talk about in energy. So several things I want to
discuss today. But you and I both posted TikTok videos
ahead of this interview where we ask viewers to submit
questions they wanted to ask. They are more than enough
(01:17):
to completely fill the show, so I want to work
some of the men throughout. That means we're going to
cover a lot of ground today, from the recent Supreme
Court ruling overturn of the Chevron case, to subsidies, to
common misconceptionist people have about energy. But before we jump
into that, for listeners who may not be familiar with you,
could you take a minute or two and give us
a bit of your background.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So again, my name is Matt Randolph. I've been in
the oil and gas industry for thirty two years now.
I started as a worm on a drilling rig, worm
being lowest man on the totem pole. Basically I was
doing that. I was working nights on drilling rigs while
going to college. Point in there, I think it was
(02:01):
my third year of college. I realized is I wanted
to be an educator. I realized I was going to
take a massive pay cut leaving the oilfield and going
to teach, So I quit school, but I continued through
the industry, working in different phases of drilling and completion.
Eventually started my own oil and gas service company in
(02:21):
two thousand and four, sold that seven years later, ended
up at Big Oil, got to study abroad. Big Oil
really shaped kind of where they really put me on
the path to where I am today. That's where I
received my formal appointment as an expert, and about almost
(02:42):
three years ago, me and a couple other guys started
a fully integrated upstream oil and gas company, and so
that's where I'm at today.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
All right, excellent. So we've got a lot of talk
about here, and I know a lot of viewers were
curious about, you know, what a day is like your
life and how you how you're oil gets from the
ground to the pump, and so we'll get into all that.
The first thing I want to ask about, though, is
the Chevron case. I had a couple of people ask
about that, and I've been asked about it multiple times,
(03:14):
and I'm curious, can you give us a little background
on that case and how this might impact on gas producers.
Does it impact you?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
I don't think it will, and well, let me back up,
it will, but not in a negative way. So basically,
that original ruling allowed, you know, e p A and
other regulatory agencies different industries to set the rules and
guidelines and standards, you know, for different company standards or
(03:46):
government standards for how companies can operate, you know, like
our emissions rules. You know, those are set forth by
the e p A. And basically the Supreme Court came
in and said, you know, you can't do that anymore. Uh,
these these rules and regulations need to be specifically outlined
in legislation and take that power away from regulatory agencies.
(04:07):
It's my understanding I've spoken to a few attorneys about this,
that the legislation does not cover, or the ruling does
not cover, the recent EPA emission standards that were rolled out.
So anything that you know, was, say the EPA passed
some regulations, if that's already been litigated in court, then
(04:30):
it won't fall under Shevon difference and it can't be changed.
Anything that hasn't been litigated can still be litigated. So
the EPA emission standards that were rolled out last year
have not been litigated, and they will be litigated, I'm sure,
and I am pretty confident they will be overruled by
the United States Supreme Court. And that's how I think
(04:52):
it will impact my company the most, because those are
very stringent emissions rules that would record fire the sale
of a lot of evs, whether people are buying them
or not.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
So right, Okay, So how about emissions in the on
your operations? Do you see any effect there?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Not really the uh and And honestly, I'm not sure
what emission's rules as far as my operations have been
litigated and not litigated. But if they haven't been litigated yet,
they're in place and we're going by them. So you know,
some of those emissions litigations or rules could potentially go
(05:37):
away if they haven't been litigated yet. I don't know
if they've been litigated yet or not. I haven't looked
at much. Our emissions regulations aren't that burdensome on our company.
It's not, you know, it's not something we're too concerned with.
It's nothing we can't handle. So, but we're not a
large company. That would impact large companies much more than
our company. We don't have We're small company, so we
(05:59):
don't have a ton of emissions, right.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I saw a story the other day the Air Force,
I think down in Tucson had a contaminated water site
and they said, hey, we're not and they've been forced
to clean it up, and they said, hey, we're not
going to clean that up now because the Supreme Court
Chevron case says we don't have to clean it up.
So I think, I think that's going to get litigated now.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And and uh, you know, all
of these regulations were based off of the Clean Air Act.
That's the legislation that they used put these regulations in place.
And the fact of the matter is there's nothing in
the Clean Air Act about a lot of the regulations
they have passed because according to the Clean Air Act,
(06:45):
CO two is not a pollutant. So there's nowhere in there,
you know, about vehicle emissions as it pertains to climate change.
So that is something that if they want to keep
in place, is going to have to be specifically put
(07:06):
into the text of new legislation or an update of
the Clean Air Act. And none of that wording exists.
It's not explicitly outlined or stated in any of the legislation,
and that's why I think it'll be overturned. I think
that's a no brainer that it will be overturned by
Supreme Court.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Okay, I want to talk a lot about misconceptions today.
That's your bread and butter is dealing in misconceptions. And
that's what I always do is I nothing gets me
writing faster than somebody saying something that is just blatantly
false and going out there. And you know, my first
viral TikTok video happened a couple of weeks ago because
(07:46):
of that reason. Somebody said something false that I called
him out and said, hey, you know, this is not accurate,
and they've got not all seven hundred thousand views or something.
That's the first one I've got.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
That that was like that.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I know you haven't liked that all the time, but
people people like that. But one of the common questions
I get is about subsidies. And people always have this
impression that the federal government is sending subsidies to oil
and gas companies to operate. So tell us a little
bit about subsidies as they relate to your business. Is
(08:17):
the government paying you to operate?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
No? Now, that's that's not a thing. And a lot
of times people conflate subsidies with tax deductions. When someone
tells me that I get a subsidy, I ask them
do you get a child tax credit? And if they
say yes, then I say, well, then you get a
subsidy too, Like if my tax break is a subsidy,
then so is yours. So but no, you know, we
(08:44):
do get you know, the intangible drilling cost deduction, and
the reason that exists is because you're paying an exorbitant
amount of money for a service that doesn't deliver you
a tangible product necessarily. Like if you purchase, say a
new computer for your office at your business, you get
to deduct that and you get to write that down.
(09:05):
But the money you spend towards drilling or completing a well,
that is not something tangible, That is not a piece
of equipment, that is not a thing it is. It
is you paying for services. So they allow you tax
deductions for those things because it's a huge cost, and
it encourages companies to drill or to go into old
(09:27):
wells and restore them and make them economical again. It
encourages all of that activity. So to me, it's just
another deduction just like any other company would get. But
since our industry is so vastly different than a lot
of other businesses, the way we spend money is different,
(09:47):
So the way we deduct our taxes needs to fit,
you know, the way we spend money. So I don't
view it as subsidies. It's it's been labeled as subsidies
just and it's labeled as subs renewable too. But you know,
renewable energy gets the production tax credit. You could, I
guess you could call that a subsidy, But no, the
(10:09):
government's not sending me any money. I'm sending them a
ton of money. The government makes a fortune on the
oil and gas industry. It is probably one of the
largest inputs into the treasury from an industry is from
the oil and gas industry. So now the government isn't
writing as checks. That's that's not I think.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah. So I read an article I don't know ten
or twelve years ago where oil Change International said oil
companies globally are getting trillions of dollars of subsidies. And
I dug into that spreadsheet they had, and the vast
majority of what they would call a subsidies, like out
of I think it was like seventy or eighty percent
(10:52):
was consumer subsidies. And the way they calculated that was
they said, Okay, in Venezuela, they're selling gasoline for ten
dollars or ten cents a gallon, and that's not market cost.
And so they looked at the difference between market costs
and what they were selling and they called that a subsidy,
and it's consumers are getting it. And Okay, technically, yes,
(11:13):
it benefits the oil companies because it lets them sell
more product. And we have our own here in the US.
We have a lot of subsidies like that, consumer subsidies.
There is a low income heating assistance program that Republicans
have tried to eliminate that multiple times. It is listed
as an oil company subsidy. And every time that tries
(11:33):
to get eliminated, people like Bernie Sanders screen Bloody Murder.
You can't eliminate that. And so what I was telling people,
you know, even the liberals love their subsidies. It's just
you know, they're subsidies by a different name. Said, well,
you're helping for people, yeah, but they are called oil
company subsidies.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And they're the third largest subsidy
behind the wind and solar. Third is you know, helping
people keep their lights on or keep heating the homes,
and those moneies that those people get gets attributed to
us as a subsidy. Another thing they do is implied subsidies,
(12:10):
which we can talk about later. Because I think we're
running short of this segment.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, yeah, you're right, we're coming up to the end
of the segment. Let's take a quick commercial break. Then
after the break, I want to ask you about our
full production records in the US whether you think they're
still room to go higher. I'm Robert Rapier with the
Energy Nex with my guest Matt Randolphin.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Be right back.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
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Speaker 2 (13:02):
Welcome back to the Energy Mix. I'm Robert ray Pierre
with this week's guest, Matt Randolph. Matt, you and I
both covered it, and I think we agree that a
new oil production record will be set this year. That
was one of my January energy predictions in Forbes this year,
that we would set another record after we set a
record last year. I am less certain about next year
(13:23):
because it seems oil production is sort of leveling out,
so I'm not sure how much higher we go here.
What are your expectations for next year and will this
be affected by who wins the presidential election this year?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, so I made the same prediction you did at
the end of twenty twenty three that we would set
a new record in twenty four. I think we also
made the same production prediction that oil production growth would
basically be flat in twenty twenty four. I said it
(14:01):
would be flat. I didn't think we would go much higher.
We haven't. We did touch thirteen point four million barrels
a day. I believe it was in July. Personally, I
don't see it going up much more. I won't predict
a specific number. I don't see us going to fourteen.
(14:22):
A lot of people are like, let's go to fourteen.
I don't see that happening. The fact of the matter is,
you know, all of the growth and oil production in
the United States is coming from the Permian Basin, and
while that is occurring, operators in the Permian Basin are
having to pay to get their gas taken away because
natural gas is so cheap. And I can't remember the
(14:43):
exact number, but there's been a lot of days this
year where natural gas was negative on the Henry Hub,
and oil companies are literally paying companies to get their
takeaway on their gas, and that reduces obviously their income.
So that's a problem. The second reason I don't think
it's going to go up much more is because I
(15:05):
don't think US producers want to get into another price
where with OPEK, I think that is a real fear
that they have. I think they think that if they
go to fourteen, or you know, if they push it
a little too far, that ope will flood the market
again and crash everything and bring it to its knees.
We've seen them do it multiple times in the past,
and they're completely aware of that. They're completely aware of
(15:28):
that possibility, and I think they have kind of found
where they're comfortable at right.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah. So, I mean the reason I thought we'd set
a record this year is because we closed twenty twenty
three significantly higher than we opened twenty twenty three. So
my logic was, we're going to have to decline a
lot in order to not set a record. But I
was like you, I don't I couldn't see us going
a lot higher because the think we're starting to flatten out,
(15:56):
and you know that that has happened. I also I
thought we'd set another natural gas production record, and I
think we're going to do that as well, and we
may do that again next year. I don't know, but
actually i'm a little I feel like, you know, oil
production is starting to flatten here, and you know, like
you said, you know, all the sweet spots in the
vermium basin had been drilled and so you know, they
(16:18):
getting into those secondary secondary locations, and I just don't
think they can keep it up like they have over
the past, you know, fifteen years.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah, and another thing that occurred in the Permian basis
Permian basin is. Companies that were looking you know that
we're going through this phase of consolidation, and companies that
were targeting basically getting bought out, they drilled up all
of their best acreage and tried to increase their value
as much as possible, and they did that quickly, trying
(16:48):
to take advantage of this consolidation phase we went through.
So you're absolutely correct. A lot of that best acreage
in the Permian was drilled up pretty quickly through this
phase of consolidation.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
So here's a related TikTok question. I get this often.
You know, people will say, yes, we're we're setting all
production records, but it's all on public land, not all
private land. Sorry, So how much of our oil production
is coming from private land versus public land? I mean,
is there is there truth to that cinema that you
know oil production people will say, you know, it's declined
(17:22):
on public lands, but it's increasing on private lands. And
are the production costs higher on public lands?
Speaker 3 (17:34):
So we didn't increase production. Let's start at the beginning
of just the Biden administration. We've increased production by nearly
two million barrels a day, about the last I read,
four hundred thousand barrels a day of that is from
federal lands, which follows in line with the old You know,
(17:56):
we're always being told twenty five percent of our production
comes from federal lands. So if it's four hundred thousand
and we're looking at a two million increase, that's exactly
you know, twenty five percent are close to it, twenty
twenty five percent. So the cost on private lands, you know,
really depends on what type of leases and contracts, and
(18:18):
contracts departments and oil companies are the those are the
departments that make or break a company. I've seen outrageous
leases where you know, mineral owners were making a mint,
and I've seen them where they weren't. The thing about
federal land is like your royalty structure, and everything is
(18:39):
known before you even try to start on private land.
That's a negotiation process. So and mineral owners and landowners
have especially in West Texas, have become very savvy to
how this business works, and they've gotten much better at
negotiating their leases and their contracts. Overall, I would say
(18:59):
it's much cheaper to produce on private land just because
you're not having to deal with a bureaucracy. But as
long as there's oil there and enough oil for it
to be economical, all companies will drill them.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
That's everyone's drilling in the Permian because that's where the
most oil is. There's oil all over the country in
other places, but it's just not as lucrative as the
perman because of the amount of reserves and proven reserves
and all of that. So we have increased production on
federal land, absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I actually had to look this up the other day
because somebody made that claim on a video. They on
a video posted they said, sure, we're increasing production, but
it's all coming from private land. And I looked it
up and I saw that offshore Gulf, it definitely has increased.
So that wasn't true. You know, there was an increase.
(19:52):
It wasn't as dramatic, but there was an increase. So
we're coming up at the end of this segment. In
the next segment, I want to talk about carrigeen and shale.
Oil not going to be confused with oil shale, the
difference between the two, because I get these questions a
lot that we have a lot of oil reserves, and
you know why we drill it knows. We'll talk about
(20:13):
that after the break. We'll be right back with Matt
Randolf on the Energy Knicks radio show.
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Speaker 2 (21:22):
Welcome back. To the Energy Mix Radio. I'm Robert ray
Pier with this week's guest, Matt Randolph. Matt. I recently
did a little clip where I talked a little bit
about carriage and also known as oil shale, and that's
not to be confused with shale oil. The Green River
formation underneath Colorado, Utah and allow me contain some estimated
three trillion barrels of oil shale resource. That's about three
(21:46):
times the total oil usage of the world to date.
And one listener asked whether mining these oil shale deposits
would be a viable source of oil in the US
for the future. What can you tell us about oil shale?
Speaker 3 (22:01):
I can tell you it's all about cost. It is
it is with anything else. It's all about cost. So
if they can get the cost of that down to
where it's economically viable on you know, a widespread basis,
then they will they will go do it. But just
like any other business, oil and gas industry, they're going
to go after the most efficient, quickest, cheapest way to
(22:24):
generate the most revenue, to create the most product. So
when you start talking about oil shell you're talking about
more expense. You're talking about more expensive you're talking about
more processes and cost. So that's what it all comes
down to with everything, not just the oil and gas industry,
but literally everything is cost versus you know, revenue, and
(22:47):
so that's that's kind of the firewall between you know,
oil shell and shell oil.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Now. I think it's been about twenty years since I
covered this issue for the first time, and I when
I was researching it, I found a nineteen oh six
newspaper article that said oil shale development imminent. And the
reason that hasn't happened is it is, as you say,
related to cost. But this is what I call unfinished oil.
(23:14):
It is uncooked oil. I mean it looks like rocks
and if you heat it up for a long period
of time, it will form oil. But the problem is,
you know, your energy inputs into that process. Shall try
to process or actually frozen area and try to heat
it up and finish that oil, and it's just really
(23:35):
energy intensive. So that's what I try to explain to people.
This is not oil. That is it may not ever
be you know, utilized the energy inputs. If the energy
inputs are greater than once you can get back out
of it, you're never going to utilize it. I often
explain to people who will talk about the Beetlekill forest
all throughout the Mountain States, and they'll say, there's a
(23:55):
lot of bet us there, And I'll say, okay, imagine
that a tree, a dead tree, has the BT value
of one barrel of oil. But to go get it
and bring it in and turn it into oil, it
costs two barrels of oil. You're never gonna use it.
It's gonna stay there till there's a forest fire that
burns the tree down. So that's why we don't often
use those resources. It's all about you know, energy and
(24:16):
energy out, which directly translates into cost in and out.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Yeah, and I worked with the gentleman. When I was
with Shell, I worked with a gentleman named more Important,
and he was one of the leaders of that project
when Shell went up there to try to, you know,
figure out how to do that Shell oil or oil
Shell project. And the stuff he told me they were
doing blew my mind. But it's funny you talk about,
(24:41):
you know, energy inputs in and out. You know, the
only thing I was I could think of when you
were talking about that was hydrogen. I get so many
questions about hydrogen, and I tell them it takes more
energy to produce it than it makes and as long
as that's the case, it's not going to be the
game changer everyone thinks it is. And so that is
the similarity between hydrogen and what we're talking about in Colorado, right.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
And I get questions about hydrogen all the time as well.
I've actually worked in hydrogen. I've produced hydrogen. That most
of the hydrogen we produce comes from natural gas. And
as you say, it takes more energy to get the
hydrogen out than you get from burning the hydrogen. That
is a thermodynamic reality and it always will be. But
there are some really interesting aspects of hydrogen burns to
(25:25):
form just water, and it's possible to think about. You know,
if you had excess solar power at peak times of
the day, you could you could dump that into electrolyzing
water and making hydrogen and then using that on. So
there are some possibilities for hydrogen. But I always have
to temper people's enthusiasm a bit and say, you know,
we don't have vast hydrogen deposits around the world that
(25:46):
we're gonna go drill and produce hydrogen from it's just
too reactive.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Yeah, And it's all about where the technology is going
to take us. Right in the future. The thing with
hydrogen could totally flip over. And you know, when we
speak in these terms, we speak of today and right now,
and we'll see where the technology takes is right, all right,
So we'll take a quick break there and we will
be right back with Matt Randolph on the Engineers Radio Show.
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Speaker 2 (27:24):
Welcome back to the Energy Next Radio. I'm Robert ray
Pere with this week's guest, Matt Randolph. So, Matt, one
of the most common questions I get is about energy independence.
There's many memes going around, there's many claims going around
the US was energy dependent. They're not now, they never were.
H what's the truth? What can you tell us about
the US and energy independence.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
We're absolutely energy independent. By the definition that the EIA uses,
we're more energy independent than we have been. And I
don't know how long. We became energy independent in twenty
nineteen under the Trump administration, and the definition I go
by is we produce more energy than we can sew.
That's the definition that the EIA likes to use. A
(28:10):
lot of people will like to bring imports and exports
into it. I don't like doing that because I think
in the future, we're going to have so much capacity
to store energy that the import export thing could be
flawed and it's not a know accurate depiction of exactly
where we are. And that's why I just stick to
production and consumption. I think this year, I read we're
(28:31):
going to be about seven quads net positive on energy
production versus consumption. Last year, I think we were five
point four. A quad is a quadrillion bt us, by
the way, that's how we measure this energy. So we're
absolutely energy independent. It has It has nothing to do
with whether we import oil from other countries. It has,
(28:55):
it has nothing to do with price, and it has
everything to do with energy security and national security. That's
how I view energy independence. The great thing about energy
independence is that OPEC cannot cut us off anymore. If
OPEK stopped sending us the little amount of oil they
(29:15):
send us now, it would not make a difference on
a hill of beans. It wouldn't matter, and our energy
and national security for me, is the biggest thing about
energy independence. A lot of people equate energy independence with price.
Has nothing to do with price, has nothing at all
to do with price, everything to do with energy security
and national security. We get the vast majority of our imports,
(29:38):
as you know, from our two closest allies or two
of our closest styllized Canada and Mexico. I mean, what
else could you ask for? I think we're doing great.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
So yeah, A actually put out an article in late
June and or early July, and I wrote a formed
article in July, and I high lighted what they said.
So the net energy surplus you were talking about grew
to seven point eight zero quads in twenty twenty three.
That is the highest number on the record. In twenty nineteen,
(30:13):
we had flipped over, and that was after fifteen years
of expanding oil and gas production due to shale, the shaleboom.
In twenty nineteen, what had been a net negative flipped
over to a positive of point six y' one. That
was in twenty nineteen, and we'd grown since then. We
were five point eight three in twenty twenty two, and
(30:36):
last year we hit seven point eight. So by that definition,
we have only increased energy and dependence. And some people
don't want to believe that. Some people say, well, we
still import oil, and I said, well, okay, if that
is your definition, then we also weren't energy independent under Trump.
We were importing oil under Trump. We've been importing oil
(30:58):
for more than seventy years. So if your definition is
no energy imports, didn't know, we're not energy to pennance.
But I don't think that's a very good definition. I mean,
we could get by with no energy imports. It wouldn't
be I mean, we'd have to rejigger our refineries and
so forth. But you know we could get by.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah, it would be an extremely inefficient process. We need
foreign oil, as you know, to rely on what we produce.
You know, there's different types of oil and we need
different types of the will. So for some reason, people
have the perception that we stopped importing oil under the
Trump administration. I don't I don't know why they believe that.
(31:41):
I haven't even heard.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
That.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
I haven't even heard Donald Trump say that. So I
don't know where that perception come from.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
But that's what they I think it's could they conflate
energy independence with no imports. I think that's why they'll
hear Donald Trump say we became energy and dependent, and
they said, Okay, that means we're not in or oil,
and that is not what that means. So you know,
you talked about different kinds of oil, and one thing
I have to tell people is that, you know, over
(32:09):
the years before the shale boom, our refineries retooled to
take heavier and more sour crudes. And that's because that's
what was available worldwide. It was the cheap crude. When
I worked in a refinery in Buildings, Montana, we loved
that Canadian heavy sour crude because we made good margins
on it. And we haven't built a new refinery in
(32:32):
the US in forty years, and therefore most of our
refiners are still tooled to take that heavy oil over
the you know, lighter oil is coming, you know, from
the Permian basin and so forth. But there is a
five point six billion dollar refinery that's been proposed, you know,
not far in Cushion, Oklahoma, in your neck of the woods,
(32:53):
relatively speaking. Do you know the status lab refinery? Do
you think it will get built?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
I do think we'll get built. Everything's been approved from
a state level. What has delayed it is that the
deal for the tract of land that that they were
trying to acquire that fell for it. And and one
of the problems in Cushing, because I went up there
and I visited the economic development manager or a guy
(33:23):
from Cushing that that kind of got them to come there.
One of the problems in Cushing, as you know, it's
it's the it's the crossroad, the pipeline crossroads of the
United States. There's so many pipelines in that city. You
cannot almost build anything anywhere because the whole city is
completely innudated with pipelines that run underneath it. And that
(33:45):
was one of the things that we discussed. So they're
having to find locations that are a little farther away,
which you know, creates other problems because now you're having
to add more pipeline to get to you know, to
tie in and get to their storage facility. But it
is still a goy're they're trying to acquire the land
and I'm pretty excited about it. I hope it. I
(34:07):
hope it all works out for the people in Cushion.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah. I don't know a lot of details about the refinery.
I would guess it is more in line with the oil,
the crude oil that is being produced in the US now,
instead of a heavy sour refinery. It is many years
to put those to create those refineries that would take
that heavy sour oil. And that's why people ask me
why are we Why are we exporting oil and importing
(34:31):
oil when we could just refine our own oil.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
So it's all about economics and refining. A lot of
people don't realize refining is a standalone business. It's a
business of their own, and companies make money importing oil
and refining it, and like it's not, it is all connected,
but they also each one of those phases you know, upstream, midstream, downstream,
they all have a little bit of their own independence
as well.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Right, Okay, I'm going to take a quick break there
and we'll be right back with Matt Randolph on the
Energy Mix radio show. I'll get through some of those
TikTok questions after the break. We'll be right back.
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Speaker 2 (35:45):
Hi. I'm Robert Ray Peter. Welcome back to the Energy
Mix radio show with my guest Matt Randolph. Matt. In
this segment, we got a lot of TikTok questions. I
want to get through some of those questions, so I'm
just going to ask you in this segment one question
after another on some of those that were admitted. So
first one, a listener asked, what are the most viable
(36:05):
renewable energy sources that we should be pursuing.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
I believe on a mass commercial scale is solar. One
thing we are seeing the last couple of years is
declines in wind energy output, even though we have increased
wind energy capacity by over six gigawatts in the last year.
Right now we're at a thirty three month low for
(36:30):
wind energy output because warmer weather, as we are figuring out,
causes a thing called wind droughts where the wind doesn't
blow as much. So we keep adding wind turbines and
producing less and less wind energy, and I'm sure there
will be weather patterns, but that will change. But I
really am a big fan of solar. I don't know
(36:52):
that you categorize nuclear as the no plant energy.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
I don't think you do.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
You would just categorize it as a clean energy. But
I'm a big fan of solar and I'm a big
fan of nuclear. I'm not real big on wind, and
that's kind of where I'm at with that, and I've
been pretty clear with people about my problems with wind energy.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Yeah, I'm fully in agreement there. I wrote an article
on two thousand and seven called the Future is Solar,
and I made that case. I said, eventually we will
get most of our power from solar energy, but it's
going to be a long time. But over the past
five years or so, we do still have globally more
installed wind power. But solar has grown much more rapidly
(37:35):
over the past five years, and it will pass wind
energy in just a few years, and it will continue
to grow. So I agree with you there, Solar. I think,
I mean, we could all have a solar panel on
our houses, but we can't all put a wind turb
in our backyard. So I think potentially a lot of
us will end up producing some of our own electricity
through solar panels. And also I agree with you on
(37:56):
nuclear power. We need to be doing all we can
to get nuclear power out there is a big firm power.
So yeah, agree, agree all those points. And the next
question is why aren't we doing more to promote nuclear
power in the US. What exactly is the problem.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
I think it's fear from you know, you have Chernobyl,
three Mile Island, you know, Fukushima. There's fear around nuclear
power also in the United States. In basically any country
out there that that tries to start a nuclear program,
we try to shut it down. And so I think
it's a lot of fear. Also with nuclear power, it
(38:33):
requires an enormous amount of investment and a very long
time for your return on investment. And so you know,
Congress just recently passed a bill promoting nuclear energy that
was signed by the President, offering more subsidies and credits
to nuclear But it's all about who has the money,
(38:54):
where they put it, and how fast they get their
money back, no matter what we're talking about, that's how
the world turns. And nuclear is not the best place
to park your money. If you're going to invest in energy,
and that is another huge thing that has been something
that has kept nuclear energy down.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Yeah, if you look at the growth trajectory, Chernobyl really
had a negative inflection on the global growth of nuclear
and then Fukushima did it again. You know, nuclear in
the eighties was growing rapidly, and we do have a
very unhealthy fear of nuclear. It's a little bit understandable.
I mean it's invisible, and people are afraid of cants
are so board. But I always try to temper that
(39:32):
by telling people, you know, bananas are radioactive, your spouse
is radioactive. People are radioactive. We have low level radiation
around us all the time. And it's a matter of
you know, as long as we built safe plants. And
I was talking about failed safe plants, plants that can't
melt down. You know, nuclear power is a great source
(39:54):
of you know, big scalable power. All right, Next question,
lots of people like questions about energy policies. What are
some of the energy policies you would like to see change?
What are some you'd like to see put in place.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
I would honestly just like us to have an energy policy.
I mean, we haven't had a robust energy policy in
a very long time. And I often quote the Energy
bill that was passed under the Bush administration, that George
Bush passed. I often go back to that and refer
to that because, in my opinion, I think that was
(40:31):
probably the best energy policy we had had in a
very long time. And I don't and Obama did add
to that a little bit, but that was the foundational
legislation and we haven't had anything close to that since then.
If someone was to ask me today, what is our
energy policy, my answer is I don't know. I don't
(40:52):
know what our energy policy is. And that's what we need.
We need a good, strong energy policy in place that
promotes a full portfolio of different types of energies. And
we've gotten to this place where we're so just adamant
about destroying fossil fuels and lifting up renewables. That's not
(41:13):
an energy policy. That is not a policy. That is
a slogan or an ideology. It's not a policy. So
a well rounded, you know, robust energy policy that clearly
outlines where we are, where we're going into the end
of the future, and what we need to do, because
the truth is, we don't have an energy policy anymore.
(41:33):
We just kind of do everything, you know, we fly
out a seat in our pants, the same way we
do with our budget. You know, we just pass continuing
you know, resolutions to keep the government open instead of
actually sitting down and creating a budget. So that's what
we need to do with energy. We need to actually
have an energy policy.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah. The funny thing about that Bush policy. I get
a lot of questions for people to say, oh, that
secret Chainey task force where they are to rack up
and did these things. And I said that that policy,
what what they did. They had tax credits for solar,
for bile fuels, for wind energy, for efficiency, there are
so many That was such a comprehensive, broad based energy
(42:12):
bill that came out of Bush that you know, people
who think, well Bush was an old guy, you know
he was. He was an all of the above guy
us and that was that was a good energy bill
underneath him. I actually dug into that in my book
power Plays. I went and talked about the Cheney task
Force and actually listed all of the things that task force,
all the recommendations they made, and in the Minutes Republic.
(42:37):
You know, people think it was all top secret. Look
it's a little top secret. You wouldn't know anything about it.
So we've got about a minute left. What's what's the
most popular misconception you think people have about energy? Oh?
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Man, I there's so many there, there is so many.
I think that the president controls gas prices.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Yeah, that's that. That, that's it. That uh uh. As
soon as there's a presidential turnover and gas prices start
to go up, they think, okay, president does that. And
I always have to tell you president can't do much
about gas prices. I mean, very few actions a president
can take that will affect gas prices, and more more
often it's the macro factors that are occurring or or
(43:19):
or OPEK. I mean, OPEK has a major influence on
oil and gas prices. But you know, Exon Mobil doesn't,
the president doesn't. Politicians in general.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Yeah, and a lot of people don't.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Go ahead, now, go ahead. I was gonna I was
gonna wrap up, go ahead and finish your thought.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
No, I was gonna say, if if today we had
the refining capacity we had in twenty eighteen, we would
have the gas prices we had in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. There we have it.
That's all the time we have for this show. Matt.
I want to thank you for being a guest again,
and let's not wait so long. And you know, we
should do another TikTok live so and that was a
big hit, so we should. Yeah, yeah, a lot of people.
I was very impressed with a number of people that
dropped in on that. So you know, anytime we can
(44:04):
help people learn something about energy, I'm on board.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
So it would be bigger now because we both have
a lot more followers than we did that.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm closing in on thirty thousand here and now,
and I think you're half a million now. The funny
thing is people often tag you in my videos to
say is this correct? They want to double check and
make sure, okay, as what he's saying true. All right,
I appreciate it and we'll see you next time. Thank you, Robert.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
The Energy Mixed Radio Show is where we explore topics
that affect us all in the oil and gas industry.
Every week, our host will interview the movers and shakers
in this fast paced industry. You'll hear from industry experts,
elected officials, and many more. On the Energy Mixed Radio
show
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