Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the nationally syndicated Energy Mix Radio Show, produced
by the Energy Network Media Group. The Energy Mix Radio
Show will give you an inside look at the energy
industry and how it affects you by talking with industry leaders, experts,
and government officials on the Energy Mix Radio Show.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
And my guest today is the president of TECHSOGA, the
Texas Oil and Gas Association, Todd Staples. Todd, welcome back
to the Energy Mix Radio Show.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Well, thank you, Kim. It's good to be back with
you today and look forward to the conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Now, before we get started today, I wanted to do
a show on a couple of things that are coming
out from the federal government under the Trump administration. One
of them, specifically, is the EPA's proposed proposal for Texas
for the Class six permitting and we'll get into that,
but before we get started, I want to tell our
(00:52):
listeners a little bit about TECHSOGA. I don't want to
assume that everybody knows what your association is, and please
be sure to tell the listeners a little bit. You
have a podcast as well, and i'd like to have
our listeners understand what you cover in your podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Well, thank you, Kim for that, I'm delighted to be
with the Texas All and Gas Association. It's our state's
oldest and largest all in gas trade association that represents
every aspect of the industry, from our prolific upstream all
in natural gas production, to our extensive pipeline systems, to
(01:28):
our world class refining, to our world changing LNG facilities
that are giving safety of liquified natural gas all over
the world. Our service companies are all part of Texoga.
We've been around a little over one hundred years, and
we're glad to be a voice for Texas All in Gas,
which by the way, represents about forty three percent of
(01:49):
our entire nation's crude all production and right at thirty
percent of our nation's natural gas production. What happens here
in Texas not only provides for the quality of life
that we enjoy, the growing robust economy and jobs here
and our state, but it adds to energy security nationally,
which bolsters our national security, which has been very important
(02:13):
over the last several weeks as we find the world
and continue turmoil. So having this robust activity in Texas
makes a big difference for all Americans.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Absolutely, you know, Texas, as you mentioned, is definitely the
leader or a true leader in helping our elect officials
that you may not have a good understanding of how
important oil and gas is as a commodity, and for me,
it does when we look at it, we need to
keep in mind that it does affect our economy, but
(02:45):
also in many ways, Todd is a matter of national security.
So Texas is a leader and keeping it strong and
being able to explain to some elected officials just how
really critical this commodity is in many different ways, not
just an economical one as well. And you all are
at the forefront and have been helping everyone understand not
(03:06):
just the numbers and the data and how it benefits us,
but you know, also helping the regulators understand why we
need to keep it strong in many ways.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
That's right, Kim, It's a big part of it. I mean,
policy can either promote prosperity or policy can hinder it.
In policy is at the local level, it's at the
state level, the federal level. We focus at Tuxoga at
the state level policy and try to provide that data,
that sound, science based information that we believe good decisions
(03:34):
can be made on that benefit our economy, benefit our environment,
and just like you, we've started a podcast, as you mentioned,
Texoga Talk, so that we could be starting to have
a candid conversation on a regular basis to add to
the good work that you do and others, to really
bring the light these important decisions about our future and
(03:56):
to make certain that decisions are made that benefits consumers
and benefits the quality of life and doesn't punish them
like we see that's occurring quite frankly in California is
a very close example of how policies are driving up
gasoline process making that commodity more scarce, and there are
alternatives to that, and that's why we want to have
(04:17):
that conversation. And our website is techoga dot org. That's
txoga dot org if people want to find more information.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And before we get on the topic of the EPA,
you guys also are doing some pretty amazing stuff with
your economists and putting out weekly and monthly data as well.
I think it's called chart books as well, and then
an economic impact study as well. I believe that is
quarterly or monthly. If you want to know data on
(04:48):
oil and gas, I highly recommend to visit your website.
It's all there and the stats so pretty amazing thing
you guys are doing keeping up with all of this
information and having it in one place at your association.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Thank you for that. Doctor Dean Foreman does a really
good job leading that effort for us, our chief economist,
and he lives and breathes this information because he knows
how important that is to decision makers and so we
did start that a couple of years ago with him.
And when you consider that what happens in Texas does
change the energy world, we wanted to make certain that
(05:22):
the right data and right information was out there and
appreciate Dean's great work that he's good.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I have to agree with you because it's not just
an executive summary or data. There's graphs, there's charts, it's
it's a really really well done So I encourage our
listeners to go to it and look and see up
the data. And it's always current too, So that's a
nice thing to have when you're looking at trying to
figure out what's going on right now. Let's uh, let's
(05:51):
get on the EPA. Todd set us up for you
know this, So what is the class six wells and
why is the ability to permit them. Such a pivotal
move here for Texas energy and the environmental landscape, because
not all the listeners know what the Class six well is,
that the EPA is proposing changes.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
To well, very very good question and very important one
to the future of our economy and to the to
the future of manufacturers, industrial facilities, power manufacturers, power generation facilities,
rather and just the whole direction. And Kim, I would
kind of like to take one step backwards. I do
want to. I want I want to discuss Class six wells,
(06:33):
but I want to discuss also just and we've done
this before, you and I have, but just a quick
refresher about carbon capturing storage because this ties in to
why Class six wells are needed and ccs. Carbon capturing
storage obviously refers to technologies that captures carbon dioxide what
we also call CO two. It's captured from large emission sources,
(06:56):
industrial facilities, manufacturers, power plants, or it can be captured
directly from the atmosphere. So once CO two is captured,
its compressed, it's usually transported by pipelines and then it's
safely and permanently stored deep underground forever and the storage
is where Class six wells comes in and it plays
(07:18):
such important role. Class six wells is what EPA currently permits.
These are wells that will take this compressed carbon dioxide,
and the EPA is currently permitting them. It's a rigorous
process and it can take years. Primacy will allow for
(07:39):
a state agency in Texas the case, it's the Texas
Railroad Commission to issue these permits and regulate this activity
and do it directly, and they must follow the same
stringent federal safety and environmental standards. But the beauty of
it is they can do it on a much faster timeline.
What we're hoping for, it's to permit projects in months
(08:02):
rather than years and and and so that's that's kind
of what Class six wells are, uh, and that's why
primacy is needed.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Well. I was having a conversation with Chairman right not
too long ago, he was on the show, and we
were discussing at that time his belief, you know, his
understanding we hope this goes through. But what he was
explaining Todd is they believe that they're the best agency
because they already have a lot of data they're already
(08:34):
looking at and analyzing. When we talk about these carbon
capture and how to do it to where they're taking
advantage or not taking advantage? Should I say, but they're
looking at the environment, they're looking at seismicity. This is
an extremely uh uh, I guess it would be complicated
thing in some ways of where to invest in these wells.
(08:58):
So they make the most sense and they make it
and actually is a matter of safety as well. So
when we talk about that the shifting would go from
the authority of the APA to the Texas Railroad Commission
for the oversight for efficiency and safety standards, you can't
get any better than that. I mean, these people really
understand everything involved, instead of it being like a whole
(09:22):
bunch of different agencies having to oversight not really having
the understanding that the Railroad Commission does. So I want
your thoughts on that of the simplicity of giving it
into the Railroad Commission that's already doing almost all the
permitting and has a greater understanding than the EPA could.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Well, I think you nailed at Kim, because the Railroal
Commission has actually decades and decades of successful experience regulating.
As we discussed this vast all and gas industry and
they've been managing underground injection wells of various typs for decades,
so they do truly possess that's the deep technical of
(10:01):
the expertise, the experienced staff. They have the local resources
to efficiently review and approve classics permits and then maintain
the oversight that goes with that. Doing this and concert
with federal safety standards, and I believe this local oversight
will help clear the backlog that we have of shovel
(10:23):
ready projects and provide regulatory certainty that we need in
these types of programs. And we need this to occur
because citizens are demanding a lower carbon footprint. Businesses are
working to reduce emissions for their to meet their customers' needs,
and CCS is going to enable them to meet these
(10:44):
needs safely, in security, securely, and carbon storage is going
to create a whole new economic sector. Carbon storage is
going to maintain and protect the manufacturing jobs that anchor
the Texas economy by capturing carbon from large facilities, all
while they maintaining the business of providing jobs and making
(11:05):
the wills of our economy turn.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
And I think for the listener for them to understand you,
as you mentioned all these wonderful things, but no one
would really consider going just changing it to the average person,
no one would ever consider going to an intern. If
you have cancer, you're going to go to a specialist.
And this is kind of the same thing that the
EPA is doing, is turn it over to the specialist
(11:29):
that have this experience in big picture and streamlining and
making it more efficient, as well as of course the
safety standards. So I think it's a good idea as well. Todd,
We've got to take a break when we return. I
wanted to talk a little bit about y'all's position of
how you looked at the federal leaders that we're supporting
this change, but we do actually take a quick break.
(11:50):
You're listening to the Energy Mixed radio show and we'll
be right back.
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Speaker 2 (13:02):
And we're back. You're listening to the Energy Mix radio show.
My guest today is Todd Staples with the Texas Association
of Oil and Gas. Todd, before the break, you were
explaining to us the the proposed approval for Texas to
manage through the Texas Railroad Commissions the Class six permitting,
(13:22):
and you explained what that was, what was tex Oga's
position as you'll pretty much praised the federal leaders for
supporting this change, But how has federal and state collaboration
evolved in the carbon capture space, and was do you
believe and I don't want to get into the Biden
administration of the Trump administration, but how has this been
(13:44):
a part of the new administration or is this how
this came about? Because I don't think you probably would
have gotten this in the Biden administration. But I just
want a big picture over you, not so much the
politics into it, but how did this happen?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Sure, well, it's been it's been an ongoing process. We've
actually had the Railroad Commission that has been working with
the EPA for I want to say, we've been waiting
a couple of years, Kim, and so it hasn't progressed
at the pace that we think it should have. Regional
sixth Administrator Scott Mason did come to Texas, it seems
(14:21):
like immediately being from being put into that position finding
out what our needs were, finding out what the EPA
could do. Administrator result and it is certainly taking the
hands on approach, and so we've supported their efforts and
there you know, carbon storage is now a shared national
priority and federal state collaboration can work together positively to
(14:43):
protect our environment and to accomplish the shared goals. The
EPA's delegation framework under this Underground Injection Control program as
certainly is going to empower states to get the job
done that they are experts in doing. And if the
state doesn't do the right job, then the ability to
(15:06):
permit can be withdrawn. But in Texas, we're very confident,
as we've discussed, based on our history and Kim, it's
not just us, but we know that delegations worldwide come
to Texas and look at the regulatory framework that has
occurred and they see that you can have oversight, you
(15:27):
can have transparency, and you can have accountability and look
and when there's when there's issues that need to be addressed,
the legislature addresses them or the regal Commission addresses them.
And in fact, the legislature just did some things in
this session to kind of beef up some requirements on
the industry, and the industry was very supportive of that.
So I think to your original question, this is federal
(15:51):
state collaboration at its best, and this is what I
think consumers expect, This is what I think voters expect,
this is what tax payers expect. They don't want a
bunch of duplication of services. They don't want the regulatory
process slowed down. That all it does is chase jobs
out of our country and raises prices on them. And
(16:11):
so this is really good news for all Texans and
all Americans.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Absolutely, Todd, that was very very well said. And you know,
I'm not here to praise you, but I do believe
if you're doing something well, I like to say it.
And TECHSOGA is one that actually has their finger on
the pulse on a lot of different things, just like
the Railroad Commission. And it could be because y'all have
been around one hundred years. You're very good at it.
(16:36):
One of the things that you guys do extremely well
is help explain the jobs, and that's important to us
here in Texas. We know we have a robustius job sector.
We're doing well, all boats are rising, with Texas being
the eighth largest economy globally. What kind of jobs creation
are we talking about or investment, as you mentioned earlier
(16:58):
in the show, surgeing and what can we expect realistically
when we're talking about the expansion of carbon capture and storage.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
The potential hell for Texas, Kim is very broad and
very very accommodating to the philosophy that we have. You
mentioned as being the eighth largest of comming in the world.
Just think about that. That's amazing. If we were our
own country, Texas, which a lot of people think is
a great idea, we would rank in the top ten.
(17:32):
And we're even you know, making progress. And I just
want to take a moment to say that's start contrast
to the way things were when I graduated from Texas
A and M in the mid eighties, just a couple
of years ago. Now, we factories were closing, jobs were
leaving our state, and so leaders in Texas we made
(17:54):
and businesses we made the decision we want to be competitive.
We want to recognize that you can. You must continue
to have a plan for growth, otherwise it's a disservice
to our citizens. And so when we think about carbon
capturing storage and CCS and these classics will permitting, here's
(18:14):
the reality. CCS is a treeion dollar industry across the globe,
and Texas has the underground geology and the experience to
lead in this emerging market. Texas has a strong energy
and manufacturing industry. It employs hundreds of thousands of people,
CCS will help maintain and expand these businesses in these jobs,
(18:35):
and carbon storage will maintain and protect the manufacturing jobs
that anchor the Texas economy by allowing these businesses to
capture carbon and then continue doing the good things that
they do. And I'll tell you that. You know, Texas
is already a leader in proposed CCS projects, but these
(18:55):
federal delays, as I said about two years, have created
a real bottlenecks. So primacy of these wells means faster,
more predictable decision making, which is going to attract to
your question, billions in investment, in creating jobs. And look,
as bad as I hate to say it, there's some
other states that have kind of gotten ahead of us
(19:17):
a little bit. Louisiana, North Dakota, West Virginia, Wyoming. They
already have primacy. Their states have the ability to permit
these wells. And so we have to not only keep pace,
but we have to get back in that number one position.
And we have all the right tools, all the right geology,
all the right know how, all the right ways to
(19:38):
protect our citizens, our environment, integro our economy, and we
stand to benefit greatly. But it being the eighth largest
and common world. My point is didn't happen by accident.
It happened because of people with a vision and the
ability and willingness to tackle new horizons to bring jobs
to Texas, and that's what needs to happen here.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well, let's take a break. But in closing that section out,
I want to say, when we talk about the carbon
capture and storage, and we know that the Texas Railroad
Commission with their lengthy history, TECHSOGA with their lengthy history,
you know, experts at what we're talking about. The energy
companies are also These are very experienced and seasoned as
(20:23):
well in not necessarily you know, their learning carbon capture,
but you want people who have an understanding of energy
who these companies large companies that can actually put the
expertise and hire the right people as well. And that's
important too. We're going to talk about that when we
get back from break. You're listening to the Energy Mixed
radio show, We'll be right back.
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Speaker 2 (21:22):
And we're back. You're listening to the Energy Mix radio show.
My guest is Todd Staples with Techsoga. Todd, you were
mentioning how great it is that Texas has this opportunity
to show the world and be the model. But you know,
when we talk about experience matters, history matters, who are
some of the energy companies that we can hear or
(21:42):
understand are leading this as well with our Railroad Commission
and some of the experienced associations like Techsoga. Who are
some of these operators.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Well, fortunately, Texas is home to multiple world class operators
who have been capturing and utilizing carbon dioxide for years
and enhance all recovery operations and others, and and there
are there are too many. I'll probably get in trouble
because I won't mention all of them that are doing things,
but there are three companies that that have made the
(22:12):
news quite a bit recently. Occidental has facilities and in
West Texas that's under construction. They've planned another one for
South Texas. UH. Chevron is in partnering with some other
companies to do some things and have leased some land
along the Texas Gulf Coast. Exon Mobile just uh there's
I believe the Railroad Commission just issued a press release
(22:36):
about three permits that are being discussed with Exon Mobile
and the work that they're doing. And so these are
I could there are others. There are others all of
the state that are doing these great things. And and look,
these are some of the best scientists in the world.
With these companies, they have the best know how, the
best the best track record of delivering, and we're very
(22:57):
confident that they can do the types of things that
need to be to make certain we can all benefit.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So let's talk about a very important topic I hope
to get towards the end of the show you to
tell us about the closing of the eighty ninth legislative
session here in Texas. One of the topics and it's
a topic that must be heard and must be talked about.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Is water.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It's a precious resource and we don't have enough here
in Texas. So I know that's been a discussion. Our
elected officials understand this. So there's a confidence in the
Railroad Commission, you know their regulatory history. But do you
feel that Texans how will they be rest assured that
the ground water, which is so important, will remain protected
(23:38):
under the state's control. I would think that it would
have more oversight because Texas understands this precious resource more
than a federal agency. It's our water. So what are
your thoughts on how we you know, how Texans understand
the water will be protective Folks.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I'm so glad you brought the issue of water up, Kim,
because that's on everyone's mind right now that don't have
enough of the legislature certainly did some major issues this
year to make certain that produce water from oil and
gas operations can be used for beneficial purposes, to benefit
the water needs that we have, and so protecting our
(24:16):
water resources as paramount. And I'm telling you the Railroad
Commission has a top notch water protection council that has
decades of experience regulating the state's vast oil and gas industry,
they've been managing underground injection wells, and when it comes
to injecting CO two, it's injected deep underground forever, and
(24:39):
it's far deeper than where groundwater is extracted, and there
are multiple layers of stealing cement that go through the
piping system that provides this type of protection and KIM
the same type of solid layers of rock that have
kept all in natural gas locked underground for millions of
years is what we're going to be relying on to
(25:01):
safely store carbon. The process is technical, and the Railroad
Commission possesses this deep technical expertise and the ability to approve,
to monitor, and to regulate these federal safety standards. So
we're very confident. And when we think about carbon dioxide,
it's not volatile, it's not anything like that, and so
(25:26):
it's relatively safe to handle. And we know that protecting
our water sources is key, and there is tremendous modeling
that's required when that CO two is injected underground to
make certain that it stays within the space that it
is expected to be in. And so we're very confident
that that's going to occur properly, you know, Todd.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
It makes me chuckle because I've been doing this a
long time, fourteen years now, I've learned a lot. I
didn't know anything about oil and gas when I started
to talk about it. We hiling gas or wanting to
learn about it. But it makes me chuckle because I
can remember at the height of shale, you know, the revolution,
that was a discussion too. Remember, protesters are going to
(26:08):
damage our water, they're going to pollute it. And I
look and chuckle now because I'm like, and they never did.
In sides a freak accident. In other words, the operators
know what they're doing, our legislators and our regulatory bodies
know what they're doing, and it doesn't happen, folks. So
this will be another big to do of nothing that happens.
It's not going to happen, folks.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
That's right, that's right, It's it's going to be I mean, well,
anytime you get on the highway, there's a you could
have a ball out, you could have something that occurs.
But our system is designed with redundancies, and it's designed
if there is something that occurs that you have quench
incident course correction, and that people are taken care of.
And I've never been in an industry like all gas
(26:50):
where safety is paramount that everything that's done protecting the environment,
and the types of companies that we discussed earlier that
are doing this are companies that have a command to
take care of our environment and a proven track record
of doing it right. And should something occur, then there
is an extreme amount of resources that go to address
(27:12):
that and to get it back on track.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Exactly not going to happen, folks. Let's take a quick
right here, listening to the Energy Mixed Radio Show. We'll
be right back, and we're back. You're listening to the
Energy Mixed Radio Show. My guest is Todd Staples with Techsoga. Todd,
we've been talking about carbon capture, the Class six wells.
How did this? You know, carbon capture has been around
(27:35):
for decades, despite what people might think, but this recent change,
all of a sudden now to make the class six
wells permitting change has now been in the headlines. What
has triggered this is kind of what I want to know.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Why?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Why has this been you know important?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Now?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
How did the EPA come to the conclusion, Hey, Texas
probably can do it better than.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Us well because we do have the demonstrated track record
and as you say, carbon storage and use has been
occurring to enhance all operations, enhanced all recovery. But right now,
what we've just seen more recently, I think to bring
this to a broader scale is just growing demand from
(28:18):
consumers from companies to offer lower emissions products. With citizens
demanding a lower carbon footprint and businesses working to reduce emissions,
carbon capture is going to ensure these demands are safely
and securely. And once we get these permits approved, get
privacy in Texas, I think you'll see this continue to
(28:42):
grow and be a benefit to everyone. And I think
there's a growing awareness and support of CCS here in
Texas as well.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Let's talk about those pesky little critics that are always arguing.
You know, first it was first it's been they're going
to pollute the water. Didn't happen. Now the critics argue
that increasing carbon storage could prolonged fossil fuel reliance. What's
your take on how CCS fits into the clean energy transition?
(29:13):
And I want to set it up for you that
are we anywhere near a place todd where we can
actually get off of oil and gas. The listeners need
to hear the truth. So tell us are we and
why is carbon capture important in the transition?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Well, there has been such a plethora of misinformation about
the energy transition that I'm so glad we're going to
work that in because the world runs on all in
natural gas, no matter what we're hearing about otherwise, all
in natural gas comprises just a part and is the
(29:51):
foundation of just about every product we use daily, from
makeups to medicines, to tires to toothpaste. And so even
as our world a population continedus to grow, and even
as our energy mix is more diversified, all in natural
gas is still going to be absolutely fundamental if you
(30:14):
care about affordability, if you care about reliability, and if
you want to make certain that your needs are met
and that scarcity doesn't occur. What it's just to discuss
energy transition and the terms that it's been done in
the past decade is a disservice to every consumer in America,
because the truth is we're talking about energy addition. You
(30:39):
are only going to meet the needs of billions of
people on this planet with energy addition, not energy subtraction.
The world is using more energy, not less. We need
energy that shows up all the time. We need energy
that's reliable, and carbon storage will allow consumers to keep
using the affordable energy and gasoline they need by capturing
(31:01):
emissions elsewhere. We can live, we can drive, we can
travel all like we always have because of carbon storage facilities,
and the government doesn't really need to be picking winners
and losers. We believe science and technology will provide a
diversified energy mix. Nuclear has been a big topic of
(31:21):
this last legislative session. Geeld thermal continues to be. We
know that federal government has put on steroids of the
growth of solar and wind and batteries in this country.
And you know what, take away the uncompetitive nature and
allow these energy sources to all grow as consumers respond
(31:45):
to them, and consumers will be winners. And so I
think that's what we need to see is that allow
these energy sources to develop. That makes sense. Don't have
bureaucratic systems that artificially drive away reliable energy, and we'll
all be better off.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
You're absolutely right, Todd, and I want to remind our listeners.
We did a show with David Holt not too long
ago on Spain, and I believe it was Portugal who
lost power for two days and all of their you know,
energy was relying on solar and wind. And I'm not
knocking it, but when you move too fast on one
(32:23):
get away from good old reliable oil and gas. Like
you said, they were without power for two days, and
I think it was a wake up call for them
that you know, as you said, we're not taking anything off,
but we are transitioning and trying different fuels to see
the fuels of the future. Oil and gas must maintain.
It's the stability, it's the common the storm and we
have seen what happens when we go off the grid
(32:45):
with our storms like a Yuri. That taught us a
lesson about how important oil and gas is, you know,
to just our lives. And so we should pay attention
and look at all new energy forms comeing on in
consumer carbon capture in storage is one. Let's talk about
(33:05):
the developments in the Class six well permitting position. Texas
is a national and a global energy leader that you
know for sure, but what could this mean for other
states who are seeking the same authority? Do you see
other states you mentioned earlier summer. Moving in this direction,
(33:27):
just tell us where you think we fit in the
overall picture. Will we be the largest leader as Texas
usually is named some of the other states that you
see promise in what's your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Well, first of all, Texans don't mind an old competition,
so as other states try to expand we we get
that that competition is better for consumers, it makes everyone
better off, and so we kind of fully expect that.
We also know though that gaining Class six primacy here
at the Texas Railroad Commission is just going to contend
(34:00):
you to solidify Texas as a pioneer on the global
stage for ccs. And the reason why is because of
our unique geology. I mean, carbon dioxide is stored in
underground formations, deep deep underground formations that we discussed below
our drinking water levels. And these these are often saline
(34:24):
formations or they are depleted oil and gas formations where
that was extracted and the oil and gas is no
longer there and CO two will be put in its place.
And so we've got the technical expertise, the right regulatory
framework at the ROILAD Commission, and we're a leader in
job growth and in our manufacturing. And so if you
(34:44):
look at the extensive manufacturing facilities what we have are
in Texas, many of these companies export their products globally.
Our LNG has exported. All of it goes globally, right,
All of our LNG goes globally, And we've gotten more
people are building more lergy facilities today along the Texas
Gulf Coast because we have more to aprogas than we
(35:06):
can use and anybody's calculable lifetime here and so we're
using that to its best use, and that is to
bring those dollars back to Texas. And so other states
are seeking that same authority, and as I mentioned, I
believe it was Louisiana in North Dakota, West Virginia, Wyoming
already had that. And so we've got to make certain
to put the Texas experience first and provide that welcome
(35:30):
math of opportunity. Let businesses know that if you come
to Texas, you're going to have that same accelerated pace.
You're going to see companies putting best practices at work
in their systems, and we're just going to continue to
increase the momentum that we have as Texas being the
best place to do business, and we love our competing states.
(35:52):
They all make us better. But obviously we want to
continue to have as much as this as we possibly
can right here in the loan source State.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Absolutely, let's take a quick break. When we return, I
want to talk about the closing of the eighty ninth
legislative session. You're listening to the Energy Mix radio show.
And we're back. You're listening to the Energy Mix radio show.
My guest is Todd Staples with Techsoga. Todd, thank you
for talking to us about the EPA's permitting and allowing
(36:22):
Texas to run the Wells six permitting process. I want
to switch gears and I want to talk a little
bit about the eighty ninth legislative session, which recently ended.
We have not done a show. I think that you
are probably the best person to talk to overall. How
did the eighty ninth session and when we're talking about
(36:45):
how did it affect oil and gas? What were some
of the achievements that you all wanted to see to
allow the state to keep moving forward with energy? But
I don't want to count out the different bills because
they may not be ones that are as important to
you of what we needed to see happened to keep
furthering the oil and gas expansion in Texas. What happened
in session.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Well, it was a really it was a good session.
I believe that the legislative leadership focused on basic fundamental
needs for oil and gas. They may not be headline
grabbing issues this session, but they were very fundamentally, very important.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
We don't want that usually because that's not good of those.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
I mean, they addressed basic issues like all Philip people
creating dangerous situations by stealing all stealing natural gas. Yes, equipment,
there's there was There was one explosion I remember doing
session at a transfer facility of a midstream company where
somebody came in and hooked up to the wrong, wrong,
(37:47):
wrong hook up and blew themselves up. I don't know
if they blew themselves up, but they blew a big
truck up, blew the whole facility up. And so they
they did several things. Uh. Senator Kevin Sparks presented books,
land graph, Representative Dean Tom Kratick, Drew Darby, you know,
phil King, book, books, landcraft, all of them. Brian Birdwell
(38:08):
really stepped up and passed a lot of bills in
that space that was good for oil and gas. The
legislature also recognized that we need to since we've been
talking about water, address ways to use these billions of
gallons of produced water treated appropriately and turned it into
(38:29):
a beneficial use through having a highly regulatory process through
the TCQ. To do that, they passed some laws that
that will, you know, make more water available, which is
always good news. And look, water's treated every day. You
just think about municipalities and water treatment and what all
goes down your system and what might end up in there.
So there's the that's all treated and released. Again, that's
(38:52):
what we're talking about doing. In a very professional manner.
Legislature passed some important bills there that passed bills dealing
with the liability and management of it to make certain
we don't get in a bunch of frivolous litigation surrounding that. Obviously,
mechanisms are in place to hold everyone accountable, but we're
just talking about foolish issues there. And then the legislature
(39:13):
kim really looked at the number of orphaned or abandoned
wells in Texas and inactive wells and recognized that there
was some kind of loopholes in the law that just
basically never would require a well to get plugged at
(39:33):
a certain point in its life. And so the legislature
has been looking at that for several issues, several sessions,
and wanting to find a good solution. And we had
some people that worked with our association all these last
two years and even before that looking at what could
be done. And here's the conclusion that the legislature reached
and that we agreed with that once an all or
(39:54):
gas well is over twenty five years old and it's
been in active for fifteen years or more, that means
no production, no production for fifteen years, and there's no
plans to use that for recovery well or enhance all
operations and i R systems or any other geothermal purposes
(40:19):
far that well or something like that that you need
to plug that well. And so they establish a framework
where that could occur, and that that makes a lot
of sense to us, and we appreciate the legislative leadership
in addressing that. They also come ass laws that simply
would allow companies to provide funding to plug these wells
(40:44):
faster if they need to. And what I mean by
that if you're a developer and you're going to go
develop a new field, there's some old, inactive, abandoned wells
that the rail Commission doesn't view as a high priority.
He just hadn't gotten to. But you know, when you're
going to develop this field, you really need to go
win and plug those wells. And so the legislature passed
the bill. It said if a company wants to voluntarily
pay for that adbide by all the standards, then they
(41:07):
can certainly do it. And then the last thing I'll
wrap up with that I think you would want to
know in your listeners, the legislature put one hundred million
dollars invested that in the Railroad Commission to address these
orphan well that are causing challenges and to go get
those plugged and to prioritize those that are the most
(41:29):
sensitive wells. And so that's goodness for everyone. It's headed
in the right direction. The oil and gas industry camp
paid billions and taxes and royalties other things, and so
we're really the ones paying for it. But the legislature
redirected that to this problem, and we support that. We
think it's the right thing to do. And Chairman Christocratic
(41:50):
commissioners Wayne Christian and Commissioner Jim Right or really staying
on top of things. Got some tremendously qualified staff that
are working hard every day.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Absolutely, and i'd like excuse me for you to set
it up for the listeners because we've had and now
I'm so happy to announce the new chairman. Right he
was on the show when he was the commissioner. Now
he's been he's taken over the role. What a week
ago or so, But he was discussing there's a lot
of orphaned wells. Todd, can you tell our listeners before
(42:21):
we close out the show we really needed to put money.
They needed to allocate that money back into the industry
to further it along. How substantial are these orphed wells?
How many are there?
Speaker 3 (42:32):
Well? The good news is is that the industry itself
directly funds and plugs about eighty five to ninety percent
of these wells on an annual basis. All the wells
that get plugged, industries doing a five to ninety percent,
and then you have another ten percent that gets plugged
by the railroa commission and the reason why an operator
(42:52):
goes out of business and so there's no entity to
go after to force them to plug those wells. And
so there's a eight thousand wells I think that's right,
Kim in the orphan well count at the Railroad Commission,
and those wells the rail Commission's plugging about one thousand
to fifteen hundred annually, but the number is not going
(43:13):
down fast enough. That's why we supported the legislature's efforts
to require industry to go ahead and plug those wells
after they've been inactive for fifteen years. There's over one
hundred thousand inactive wells today in Texas, a little over
one hundred thousand, about one hundred and eleven. When you
really boil down and look at that, some of those
may not have been inactive but for a year, and
(43:34):
so they may be coming back online. There's lots of
reasons an operator would take a well inactive. They may
have trolls with a well. There may be you know,
pricing economic conditions to take that well offline. There may
be just you know, a variety of things, and so
it's nothing to get alarmed about. But we do know
that when they've been around a long time, they need
(43:56):
to be taken care of. And that's what the legislature's doing,
and that's what the Rail Commission is record of delivery on.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
And I want to close out with the majority of
the operators. Now, these were not their abandoned wells. We're
talking about over one hundred years. I'm sure these companies
no longer existed then. We did things differently. Back then,
we didn't really think about the environment. So a lot
is changing for the better, and we see the industry
moving along considering all the economic I'm sorry, all of
(44:23):
the environmental impacts and how do we continue to build
our energy strong here but also think of the environment.
I think they're doing an excellent job. I'm glad the
elected officials had a great session we talk about energy
and Todd, thank you for coming on the show again
and getting this update. I always enjoy having techsoga. You
all are the Bible when we talk about oil and gas.
(44:43):
All the knowledge is in there, you all hold it.
You're one of the best agencies to come in and
get our listeners up to speed on what's going on
in the oil and gas world. Thank you for joining
me and being my guest on today's show.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Thanks Kim, I'm great to be with you.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
The Energy Mix radio show is where we explore topics
that affect us all in the oil and gas industry.
Every week, our host will interview the movers and shakers
in this fast paced industry. You'll hear from industry experts,
elected officials, and many more on the Energy Mix radio
show
Welcome to the nationally syndicated Energy Mix Radio Show, produced
by the Energy Network Media Group. The Energy Mix Radio
Show will give you an inside look at the energy
industry and how it affects you by talking with industry leaders, experts,
and government officials on the Energy Mix Radio Show.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
And my guest today is the president of TECHSOGA, the
Texas Oil and Gas Association, Todd Staples. Todd, welcome back
to the Energy Mix Radio Show.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Well, thank you, Kim. It's good to be back with
you today and look forward to the conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Now, before we get started today, I wanted to do
a show on a couple of things that are coming
out from the federal government under the Trump administration. One
of them, specifically, is the EPA's proposed proposal for Texas
for the Class six permitting and we'll get into that,
but before we get started, I want to tell our
(00:52):
listeners a little bit about TECHSOGA. I don't want to
assume that everybody knows what your association is, and please
be sure to tell the listeners a little bit. You
have a podcast as well, and i'd like to have
our listeners understand what you cover in your podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Well, thank you, Kim for that, I'm delighted to be
with the Texas All and Gas Association. It's our state's
oldest and largest all in gas trade association that represents
every aspect of the industry, from our prolific upstream all
in natural gas production, to our extensive pipeline systems, to
(01:28):
our world class refining, to our world changing LNG facilities
that are giving safety of liquified natural gas all over
the world. Our service companies are all part of Texoga.
We've been around a little over one hundred years, and
we're glad to be a voice for Texas All in Gas,
which by the way, represents about forty three percent of
(01:49):
our entire nation's crude all production and right at thirty
percent of our nation's natural gas production. What happens here
in Texas not only provides for the quality of life
that we enjoy, the growing robust economy and jobs here
and our state, but it adds to energy security nationally,
which bolsters our national security, which has been very important
(02:13):
over the last several weeks as we find the world
and continue turmoil. So having this robust activity in Texas
makes a big difference for all Americans.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Absolutely, you know, Texas, as you mentioned, is definitely the
leader or a true leader in helping our elect officials
that you may not have a good understanding of how
important oil and gas is as a commodity, and for me,
it does when we look at it, we need to
keep in mind that it does affect our economy, but
(02:45):
also in many ways, Todd is a matter of national security.
So Texas is a leader and keeping it strong and
being able to explain to some elected officials just how
really critical this commodity is in many different ways, not
just an economical one as well. And you all are
at the forefront and have been helping everyone understand not
(03:06):
just the numbers and the data and how it benefits us,
but you know, also helping the regulators understand why we
need to keep it strong in many ways.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
That's right, Kim, It's a big part of it. I mean,
policy can either promote prosperity or policy can hinder it.
In policy is at the local level, it's at the
state level, the federal level. We focus at Tuxoga at
the state level policy and try to provide that data,
that sound, science based information that we believe good decisions
(03:34):
can be made on that benefit our economy, benefit our environment,
and just like you, we've started a podcast, as you mentioned,
Texoga Talk, so that we could be starting to have
a candid conversation on a regular basis to add to
the good work that you do and others, to really
bring the light these important decisions about our future and
(03:56):
to make certain that decisions are made that benefits consumers
and benefits the quality of life and doesn't punish them
like we see that's occurring quite frankly in California is
a very close example of how policies are driving up
gasoline process making that commodity more scarce, and there are
alternatives to that, and that's why we want to have
(04:17):
that conversation. And our website is techoga dot org. That's
txoga dot org if people want to find more information.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And before we get on the topic of the EPA,
you guys also are doing some pretty amazing stuff with
your economists and putting out weekly and monthly data as well.
I think it's called chart books as well, and then
an economic impact study as well. I believe that is
quarterly or monthly. If you want to know data on
(04:48):
oil and gas, I highly recommend to visit your website.
It's all there and the stats so pretty amazing thing
you guys are doing keeping up with all of this
information and having it in one place at your association.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Thank you for that. Doctor Dean Foreman does a really
good job leading that effort for us, our chief economist,
and he lives and breathes this information because he knows
how important that is to decision makers and so we
did start that a couple of years ago with him.
And when you consider that what happens in Texas does
change the energy world, we wanted to make certain that
(05:22):
the right data and right information was out there and
appreciate Dean's great work that he's good.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I have to agree with you because it's not just
an executive summary or data. There's graphs, there's charts, it's
it's a really really well done So I encourage our
listeners to go to it and look and see up
the data. And it's always current too, So that's a
nice thing to have when you're looking at trying to
figure out what's going on right now. Let's uh, let's
(05:51):
get on the EPA. Todd set us up for you
know this, So what is the class six wells and
why is the ability to permit them. Such a pivotal
move here for Texas energy and the environmental landscape, because
not all the listeners know what the Class six well is,
that the EPA is proposing changes.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
To well, very very good question and very important one
to the future of our economy and to the to
the future of manufacturers, industrial facilities, power manufacturers, power generation facilities,
rather and just the whole direction. And Kim, I would
kind of like to take one step backwards. I do
want to. I want I want to discuss Class six wells,
(06:33):
but I want to discuss also just and we've done
this before, you and I have, but just a quick
refresher about carbon capturing storage because this ties in to
why Class six wells are needed and ccs. Carbon capturing
storage obviously refers to technologies that captures carbon dioxide what
we also call CO two. It's captured from large emission sources,
(06:56):
industrial facilities, manufacturers, power plants, or it can be captured
directly from the atmosphere. So once CO two is captured,
its compressed, it's usually transported by pipelines and then it's
safely and permanently stored deep underground forever and the storage
is where Class six wells comes in and it plays
(07:18):
such important role. Class six wells is what EPA currently permits.
These are wells that will take this compressed carbon dioxide,
and the EPA is currently permitting them. It's a rigorous
process and it can take years. Primacy will allow for
(07:39):
a state agency in Texas the case, it's the Texas
Railroad Commission to issue these permits and regulate this activity
and do it directly, and they must follow the same
stringent federal safety and environmental standards. But the beauty of
it is they can do it on a much faster timeline.
What we're hoping for, it's to permit projects in months
(08:02):
rather than years and and and so that's that's kind
of what Class six wells are, uh, and that's why
primacy is needed.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Well. I was having a conversation with Chairman right not
too long ago, he was on the show, and we
were discussing at that time his belief, you know, his
understanding we hope this goes through. But what he was
explaining Todd is they believe that they're the best agency
because they already have a lot of data they're already
(08:34):
looking at and analyzing. When we talk about these carbon
capture and how to do it to where they're taking
advantage or not taking advantage? Should I say, but they're
looking at the environment, they're looking at seismicity. This is
an extremely uh uh, I guess it would be complicated
thing in some ways of where to invest in these wells.
(08:58):
So they make the most sense and they make it
and actually is a matter of safety as well. So
when we talk about that the shifting would go from
the authority of the APA to the Texas Railroad Commission
for the oversight for efficiency and safety standards, you can't
get any better than that. I mean, these people really
understand everything involved, instead of it being like a whole
(09:22):
bunch of different agencies having to oversight not really having
the understanding that the Railroad Commission does. So I want
your thoughts on that of the simplicity of giving it
into the Railroad Commission that's already doing almost all the
permitting and has a greater understanding than the EPA could.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Well, I think you nailed at Kim, because the Railroal
Commission has actually decades and decades of successful experience regulating.
As we discussed this vast all and gas industry and
they've been managing underground injection wells of various typs for decades,
so they do truly possess that's the deep technical of
(10:01):
the expertise, the experienced staff. They have the local resources
to efficiently review and approve classics permits and then maintain
the oversight that goes with that. Doing this and concert
with federal safety standards, and I believe this local oversight
will help clear the backlog that we have of shovel
(10:23):
ready projects and provide regulatory certainty that we need in
these types of programs. And we need this to occur
because citizens are demanding a lower carbon footprint. Businesses are
working to reduce emissions for their to meet their customers' needs,
and CCS is going to enable them to meet these
(10:44):
needs safely, in security, securely, and carbon storage is going
to create a whole new economic sector. Carbon storage is
going to maintain and protect the manufacturing jobs that anchor
the Texas economy by capturing carbon from large facilities, all
while they maintaining the business of providing jobs and making
(11:05):
the wills of our economy turn.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
And I think for the listener for them to understand you,
as you mentioned all these wonderful things, but no one
would really consider going just changing it to the average person,
no one would ever consider going to an intern. If
you have cancer, you're going to go to a specialist.
And this is kind of the same thing that the
EPA is doing, is turn it over to the specialist
(11:29):
that have this experience in big picture and streamlining and
making it more efficient, as well as of course the
safety standards. So I think it's a good idea as well. Todd,
We've got to take a break when we return. I
wanted to talk a little bit about y'all's position of
how you looked at the federal leaders that we're supporting
this change, but we do actually take a quick break.
(11:50):
You're listening to the Energy Mixed radio show and we'll
be right back.
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Speaker 2 (13:02):
And we're back. You're listening to the Energy Mix radio show.
My guest today is Todd Staples with the Texas Association
of Oil and Gas. Todd, before the break, you were
explaining to us the the proposed approval for Texas to
manage through the Texas Railroad Commissions the Class six permitting,
(13:22):
and you explained what that was, what was tex Oga's
position as you'll pretty much praised the federal leaders for
supporting this change, But how has federal and state collaboration
evolved in the carbon capture space, and was do you
believe and I don't want to get into the Biden
administration of the Trump administration, but how has this been
(13:44):
a part of the new administration or is this how
this came about? Because I don't think you probably would
have gotten this in the Biden administration. But I just
want a big picture over you, not so much the
politics into it, but how did this happen?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Sure, well, it's been it's been an ongoing process. We've
actually had the Railroad Commission that has been working with
the EPA for I want to say, we've been waiting
a couple of years, Kim, and so it hasn't progressed
at the pace that we think it should have. Regional
sixth Administrator Scott Mason did come to Texas, it seems
(14:21):
like immediately being from being put into that position finding
out what our needs were, finding out what the EPA
could do. Administrator result and it is certainly taking the
hands on approach, and so we've supported their efforts and
there you know, carbon storage is now a shared national
priority and federal state collaboration can work together positively to
(14:43):
protect our environment and to accomplish the shared goals. The
EPA's delegation framework under this Underground Injection Control program as
certainly is going to empower states to get the job
done that they are experts in doing. And if the
state doesn't do the right job, then the ability to
(15:06):
permit can be withdrawn. But in Texas, we're very confident,
as we've discussed, based on our history and Kim, it's
not just us, but we know that delegations worldwide come
to Texas and look at the regulatory framework that has
occurred and they see that you can have oversight, you
(15:27):
can have transparency, and you can have accountability and look
and when there's when there's issues that need to be addressed,
the legislature addresses them or the regal Commission addresses them.
And in fact, the legislature just did some things in
this session to kind of beef up some requirements on
the industry, and the industry was very supportive of that.
So I think to your original question, this is federal
(15:51):
state collaboration at its best, and this is what I
think consumers expect, This is what I think voters expect,
this is what tax payers expect. They don't want a
bunch of duplication of services. They don't want the regulatory
process slowed down. That all it does is chase jobs
out of our country and raises prices on them. And
(16:11):
so this is really good news for all Texans and
all Americans.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Absolutely, Todd, that was very very well said. And you know,
I'm not here to praise you, but I do believe
if you're doing something well, I like to say it.
And TECHSOGA is one that actually has their finger on
the pulse on a lot of different things, just like
the Railroad Commission. And it could be because y'all have
been around one hundred years. You're very good at it.
(16:36):
One of the things that you guys do extremely well
is help explain the jobs, and that's important to us
here in Texas. We know we have a robustius job sector.
We're doing well, all boats are rising, with Texas being
the eighth largest economy globally. What kind of jobs creation
are we talking about or investment, as you mentioned earlier
(16:58):
in the show, surgeing and what can we expect realistically
when we're talking about the expansion of carbon capture and storage.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
The potential hell for Texas, Kim is very broad and
very very accommodating to the philosophy that we have. You
mentioned as being the eighth largest of comming in the world.
Just think about that. That's amazing. If we were our
own country, Texas, which a lot of people think is
a great idea, we would rank in the top ten.
(17:32):
And we're even you know, making progress. And I just
want to take a moment to say that's start contrast
to the way things were when I graduated from Texas
A and M in the mid eighties, just a couple
of years ago. Now, we factories were closing, jobs were
leaving our state, and so leaders in Texas we made
(17:54):
and businesses we made the decision we want to be competitive.
We want to recognize that you can. You must continue
to have a plan for growth, otherwise it's a disservice
to our citizens. And so when we think about carbon
capturing storage and CCS and these classics will permitting, here's
(18:14):
the reality. CCS is a treeion dollar industry across the globe,
and Texas has the underground geology and the experience to
lead in this emerging market. Texas has a strong energy
and manufacturing industry. It employs hundreds of thousands of people,
CCS will help maintain and expand these businesses in these jobs,
(18:35):
and carbon storage will maintain and protect the manufacturing jobs
that anchor the Texas economy by allowing these businesses to
capture carbon and then continue doing the good things that
they do. And I'll tell you that. You know, Texas
is already a leader in proposed CCS projects, but these
(18:55):
federal delays, as I said about two years, have created
a real bottlenecks. So primacy of these wells means faster,
more predictable decision making, which is going to attract to
your question, billions in investment, in creating jobs. And look,
as bad as I hate to say it, there's some
other states that have kind of gotten ahead of us
(19:17):
a little bit. Louisiana, North Dakota, West Virginia, Wyoming. They
already have primacy. Their states have the ability to permit
these wells. And so we have to not only keep pace,
but we have to get back in that number one position.
And we have all the right tools, all the right geology,
all the right know how, all the right ways to
(19:38):
protect our citizens, our environment, integro our economy, and we
stand to benefit greatly. But it being the eighth largest
and common world. My point is didn't happen by accident.
It happened because of people with a vision and the
ability and willingness to tackle new horizons to bring jobs
to Texas, and that's what needs to happen here.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well, let's take a break. But in closing that section out,
I want to say, when we talk about the carbon
capture and storage, and we know that the Texas Railroad
Commission with their lengthy history, TECHSOGA with their lengthy history,
you know, experts at what we're talking about. The energy
companies are also These are very experienced and seasoned as
(20:23):
well in not necessarily you know, their learning carbon capture,
but you want people who have an understanding of energy
who these companies large companies that can actually put the
expertise and hire the right people as well. And that's
important too. We're going to talk about that when we
get back from break. You're listening to the Energy Mixed
radio show, We'll be right back.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
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Speaker 2 (21:22):
And we're back. You're listening to the Energy Mix radio show.
My guest is Todd Staples with Techsoga. Todd, you were
mentioning how great it is that Texas has this opportunity
to show the world and be the model. But you know,
when we talk about experience matters, history matters, who are
some of the energy companies that we can hear or
(21:42):
understand are leading this as well with our Railroad Commission
and some of the experienced associations like Techsoga. Who are
some of these operators.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Well, fortunately, Texas is home to multiple world class operators
who have been capturing and utilizing carbon dioxide for years
and enhance all recovery operations and others, and and there
are there are too many. I'll probably get in trouble
because I won't mention all of them that are doing things,
but there are three companies that that have made the
(22:12):
news quite a bit recently. Occidental has facilities and in
West Texas that's under construction. They've planned another one for
South Texas. UH. Chevron is in partnering with some other
companies to do some things and have leased some land
along the Texas Gulf Coast. Exon Mobile just uh there's
I believe the Railroad Commission just issued a press release
(22:36):
about three permits that are being discussed with Exon Mobile
and the work that they're doing. And so these are
I could there are others. There are others all of
the state that are doing these great things. And and look,
these are some of the best scientists in the world.
With these companies, they have the best know how, the
best the best track record of delivering, and we're very
(22:57):
confident that they can do the types of things that
need to be to make certain we can all benefit.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So let's talk about a very important topic I hope
to get towards the end of the show you to
tell us about the closing of the eighty ninth legislative
session here in Texas. One of the topics and it's
a topic that must be heard and must be talked about.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Is water.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It's a precious resource and we don't have enough here
in Texas. So I know that's been a discussion. Our
elected officials understand this. So there's a confidence in the
Railroad Commission, you know their regulatory history. But do you
feel that Texans how will they be rest assured that
the ground water, which is so important, will remain protected
(23:38):
under the state's control. I would think that it would
have more oversight because Texas understands this precious resource more
than a federal agency. It's our water. So what are
your thoughts on how we you know, how Texans understand
the water will be protective Folks.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I'm so glad you brought the issue of water up, Kim,
because that's on everyone's mind right now that don't have
enough of the legislature certainly did some major issues this
year to make certain that produce water from oil and
gas operations can be used for beneficial purposes, to benefit
the water needs that we have, and so protecting our
(24:16):
water resources as paramount. And I'm telling you the Railroad
Commission has a top notch water protection council that has
decades of experience regulating the state's vast oil and gas industry,
they've been managing underground injection wells, and when it comes
to injecting CO two, it's injected deep underground forever, and
(24:39):
it's far deeper than where groundwater is extracted, and there
are multiple layers of stealing cement that go through the
piping system that provides this type of protection and KIM
the same type of solid layers of rock that have
kept all in natural gas locked underground for millions of
years is what we're going to be relying on to
(25:01):
safely store carbon. The process is technical, and the Railroad
Commission possesses this deep technical expertise and the ability to approve,
to monitor, and to regulate these federal safety standards. So
we're very confident. And when we think about carbon dioxide,
it's not volatile, it's not anything like that, and so
(25:26):
it's relatively safe to handle. And we know that protecting
our water sources is key, and there is tremendous modeling
that's required when that CO two is injected underground to
make certain that it stays within the space that it
is expected to be in. And so we're very confident
that that's going to occur properly, you know, Todd.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
It makes me chuckle because I've been doing this a
long time, fourteen years now, I've learned a lot. I
didn't know anything about oil and gas when I started
to talk about it. We hiling gas or wanting to
learn about it. But it makes me chuckle because I
can remember at the height of shale, you know, the revolution,
that was a discussion too. Remember, protesters are going to
(26:08):
damage our water, they're going to pollute it. And I
look and chuckle now because I'm like, and they never did.
In sides a freak accident. In other words, the operators
know what they're doing, our legislators and our regulatory bodies
know what they're doing, and it doesn't happen, folks. So
this will be another big to do of nothing that happens.
It's not going to happen, folks.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
That's right, that's right, It's it's going to be I mean, well,
anytime you get on the highway, there's a you could
have a ball out, you could have something that occurs.
But our system is designed with redundancies, and it's designed
if there is something that occurs that you have quench
incident course correction, and that people are taken care of.
And I've never been in an industry like all gas
(26:50):
where safety is paramount that everything that's done protecting the environment,
and the types of companies that we discussed earlier that
are doing this are companies that have a command to
take care of our environment and a proven track record
of doing it right. And should something occur, then there
is an extreme amount of resources that go to address
(27:12):
that and to get it back on track.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Exactly not going to happen, folks. Let's take a quick
right here, listening to the Energy Mixed Radio Show. We'll
be right back, and we're back. You're listening to the
Energy Mixed Radio Show. My guest is Todd Staples with Techsoga. Todd,
we've been talking about carbon capture, the Class six wells.
How did this? You know, carbon capture has been around
(27:35):
for decades, despite what people might think, but this recent change,
all of a sudden now to make the class six
wells permitting change has now been in the headlines. What
has triggered this is kind of what I want to know.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Why?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Why has this been you know important?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Now?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
How did the EPA come to the conclusion, Hey, Texas
probably can do it better than.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Us well because we do have the demonstrated track record
and as you say, carbon storage and use has been
occurring to enhance all operations, enhanced all recovery. But right now,
what we've just seen more recently, I think to bring
this to a broader scale is just growing demand from
(28:18):
consumers from companies to offer lower emissions products. With citizens
demanding a lower carbon footprint and businesses working to reduce emissions,
carbon capture is going to ensure these demands are safely
and securely. And once we get these permits approved, get
privacy in Texas, I think you'll see this continue to
(28:42):
grow and be a benefit to everyone. And I think
there's a growing awareness and support of CCS here in
Texas as well.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Let's talk about those pesky little critics that are always arguing.
You know, first it was first it's been they're going
to pollute the water. Didn't happen. Now the critics argue
that increasing carbon storage could prolonged fossil fuel reliance. What's
your take on how CCS fits into the clean energy transition?
(29:13):
And I want to set it up for you that
are we anywhere near a place todd where we can
actually get off of oil and gas. The listeners need
to hear the truth. So tell us are we and
why is carbon capture important in the transition?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Well, there has been such a plethora of misinformation about
the energy transition that I'm so glad we're going to
work that in because the world runs on all in
natural gas, no matter what we're hearing about otherwise, all
in natural gas comprises just a part and is the
(29:51):
foundation of just about every product we use daily, from
makeups to medicines, to tires to toothpaste. And so even
as our world a population continedus to grow, and even
as our energy mix is more diversified, all in natural
gas is still going to be absolutely fundamental if you
(30:14):
care about affordability, if you care about reliability, and if
you want to make certain that your needs are met
and that scarcity doesn't occur. What it's just to discuss
energy transition and the terms that it's been done in
the past decade is a disservice to every consumer in America,
because the truth is we're talking about energy addition. You
(30:39):
are only going to meet the needs of billions of
people on this planet with energy addition, not energy subtraction.
The world is using more energy, not less. We need
energy that shows up all the time. We need energy
that's reliable, and carbon storage will allow consumers to keep
using the affordable energy and gasoline they need by capturing
(31:01):
emissions elsewhere. We can live, we can drive, we can
travel all like we always have because of carbon storage facilities,
and the government doesn't really need to be picking winners
and losers. We believe science and technology will provide a
diversified energy mix. Nuclear has been a big topic of
(31:21):
this last legislative session. Geeld thermal continues to be. We
know that federal government has put on steroids of the
growth of solar and wind and batteries in this country.
And you know what, take away the uncompetitive nature and
allow these energy sources to all grow as consumers respond
(31:45):
to them, and consumers will be winners. And so I
think that's what we need to see is that allow
these energy sources to develop. That makes sense. Don't have
bureaucratic systems that artificially drive away reliable energy, and we'll
all be better off.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
You're absolutely right, Todd, and I want to remind our listeners.
We did a show with David Holt not too long
ago on Spain, and I believe it was Portugal who
lost power for two days and all of their you know,
energy was relying on solar and wind. And I'm not
knocking it, but when you move too fast on one
(32:23):
get away from good old reliable oil and gas. Like
you said, they were without power for two days, and
I think it was a wake up call for them
that you know, as you said, we're not taking anything off,
but we are transitioning and trying different fuels to see
the fuels of the future. Oil and gas must maintain.
It's the stability, it's the common the storm and we
have seen what happens when we go off the grid
(32:45):
with our storms like a Yuri. That taught us a
lesson about how important oil and gas is, you know,
to just our lives. And so we should pay attention
and look at all new energy forms comeing on in
consumer carbon capture in storage is one. Let's talk about
(33:05):
the developments in the Class six well permitting position. Texas
is a national and a global energy leader that you
know for sure, but what could this mean for other
states who are seeking the same authority? Do you see
other states you mentioned earlier summer. Moving in this direction,
(33:27):
just tell us where you think we fit in the
overall picture. Will we be the largest leader as Texas
usually is named some of the other states that you
see promise in what's your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Well, first of all, Texans don't mind an old competition,
so as other states try to expand we we get
that that competition is better for consumers, it makes everyone
better off, and so we kind of fully expect that.
We also know though that gaining Class six primacy here
at the Texas Railroad Commission is just going to contend
(34:00):
you to solidify Texas as a pioneer on the global
stage for ccs. And the reason why is because of
our unique geology. I mean, carbon dioxide is stored in
underground formations, deep deep underground formations that we discussed below
our drinking water levels. And these these are often saline
(34:24):
formations or they are depleted oil and gas formations where
that was extracted and the oil and gas is no
longer there and CO two will be put in its place.
And so we've got the technical expertise, the right regulatory
framework at the ROILAD Commission, and we're a leader in
job growth and in our manufacturing. And so if you
(34:44):
look at the extensive manufacturing facilities what we have are
in Texas, many of these companies export their products globally.
Our LNG has exported. All of it goes globally, right,
All of our LNG goes globally, And we've gotten more
people are building more lergy facilities today along the Texas
Gulf Coast because we have more to aprogas than we
(35:06):
can use and anybody's calculable lifetime here and so we're
using that to its best use, and that is to
bring those dollars back to Texas. And so other states
are seeking that same authority, and as I mentioned, I
believe it was Louisiana in North Dakota, West Virginia, Wyoming
already had that. And so we've got to make certain
to put the Texas experience first and provide that welcome
(35:30):
math of opportunity. Let businesses know that if you come
to Texas, you're going to have that same accelerated pace.
You're going to see companies putting best practices at work
in their systems, and we're just going to continue to
increase the momentum that we have as Texas being the
best place to do business, and we love our competing states.
(35:52):
They all make us better. But obviously we want to
continue to have as much as this as we possibly
can right here in the loan source State.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Absolutely, let's take a quick break. When we return, I
want to talk about the closing of the eighty ninth
legislative session. You're listening to the Energy Mix radio show.
And we're back. You're listening to the Energy Mix radio show.
My guest is Todd Staples with Techsoga. Todd, thank you
for talking to us about the EPA's permitting and allowing
(36:22):
Texas to run the Wells six permitting process. I want
to switch gears and I want to talk a little
bit about the eighty ninth legislative session, which recently ended.
We have not done a show. I think that you
are probably the best person to talk to overall. How
did the eighty ninth session and when we're talking about
(36:45):
how did it affect oil and gas? What were some
of the achievements that you all wanted to see to
allow the state to keep moving forward with energy? But
I don't want to count out the different bills because
they may not be ones that are as important to
you of what we needed to see happened to keep
furthering the oil and gas expansion in Texas. What happened
in session.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Well, it was a really it was a good session.
I believe that the legislative leadership focused on basic fundamental
needs for oil and gas. They may not be headline
grabbing issues this session, but they were very fundamentally, very important.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
We don't want that usually because that's not good of those.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
I mean, they addressed basic issues like all Philip people
creating dangerous situations by stealing all stealing natural gas. Yes, equipment,
there's there was There was one explosion I remember doing
session at a transfer facility of a midstream company where
somebody came in and hooked up to the wrong, wrong,
(37:47):
wrong hook up and blew themselves up. I don't know
if they blew themselves up, but they blew a big
truck up, blew the whole facility up. And so they
they did several things. Uh. Senator Kevin Sparks presented books,
land graph, Representative Dean Tom Kratick, Drew Darby, you know,
phil King, book, books, landcraft, all of them. Brian Birdwell
(38:08):
really stepped up and passed a lot of bills in
that space that was good for oil and gas. The
legislature also recognized that we need to since we've been
talking about water, address ways to use these billions of
gallons of produced water treated appropriately and turned it into
(38:29):
a beneficial use through having a highly regulatory process through
the TCQ. To do that, they passed some laws that
that will, you know, make more water available, which is
always good news. And look, water's treated every day. You
just think about municipalities and water treatment and what all
goes down your system and what might end up in there.
So there's the that's all treated and released. Again, that's
(38:52):
what we're talking about doing. In a very professional manner.
Legislature passed some important bills there that passed bills dealing
with the liability and management of it to make certain
we don't get in a bunch of frivolous litigation surrounding that. Obviously,
mechanisms are in place to hold everyone accountable, but we're
just talking about foolish issues there. And then the legislature
(39:13):
kim really looked at the number of orphaned or abandoned
wells in Texas and inactive wells and recognized that there
was some kind of loopholes in the law that just
basically never would require a well to get plugged at
(39:33):
a certain point in its life. And so the legislature
has been looking at that for several issues, several sessions,
and wanting to find a good solution. And we had
some people that worked with our association all these last
two years and even before that looking at what could
be done. And here's the conclusion that the legislature reached
and that we agreed with that once an all or
(39:54):
gas well is over twenty five years old and it's
been in active for fifteen years or more, that means
no production, no production for fifteen years, and there's no
plans to use that for recovery well or enhance all
operations and i R systems or any other geothermal purposes
(40:19):
far that well or something like that that you need
to plug that well. And so they establish a framework
where that could occur, and that that makes a lot
of sense to us, and we appreciate the legislative leadership
in addressing that. They also come ass laws that simply
would allow companies to provide funding to plug these wells
(40:44):
faster if they need to. And what I mean by
that if you're a developer and you're going to go
develop a new field, there's some old, inactive, abandoned wells
that the rail Commission doesn't view as a high priority.
He just hadn't gotten to. But you know, when you're
going to develop this field, you really need to go
win and plug those wells. And so the legislature passed
the bill. It said if a company wants to voluntarily
pay for that adbide by all the standards, then they
(41:07):
can certainly do it. And then the last thing I'll
wrap up with that I think you would want to
know in your listeners, the legislature put one hundred million
dollars invested that in the Railroad Commission to address these
orphan well that are causing challenges and to go get
those plugged and to prioritize those that are the most
(41:29):
sensitive wells. And so that's goodness for everyone. It's headed
in the right direction. The oil and gas industry camp
paid billions and taxes and royalties other things, and so
we're really the ones paying for it. But the legislature
redirected that to this problem, and we support that. We
think it's the right thing to do. And Chairman Christocratic
(41:50):
commissioners Wayne Christian and Commissioner Jim Right or really staying
on top of things. Got some tremendously qualified staff that
are working hard every day.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Absolutely, and i'd like excuse me for you to set
it up for the listeners because we've had and now
I'm so happy to announce the new chairman. Right he
was on the show when he was the commissioner. Now
he's been he's taken over the role. What a week
ago or so, But he was discussing there's a lot
of orphaned wells. Todd, can you tell our listeners before
(42:21):
we close out the show we really needed to put money.
They needed to allocate that money back into the industry
to further it along. How substantial are these orphed wells?
How many are there?
Speaker 3 (42:32):
Well? The good news is is that the industry itself
directly funds and plugs about eighty five to ninety percent
of these wells on an annual basis. All the wells
that get plugged, industries doing a five to ninety percent,
and then you have another ten percent that gets plugged
by the railroa commission and the reason why an operator
(42:52):
goes out of business and so there's no entity to
go after to force them to plug those wells. And
so there's a eight thousand wells I think that's right,
Kim in the orphan well count at the Railroad Commission,
and those wells the rail Commission's plugging about one thousand
to fifteen hundred annually, but the number is not going
(43:13):
down fast enough. That's why we supported the legislature's efforts
to require industry to go ahead and plug those wells
after they've been inactive for fifteen years. There's over one
hundred thousand inactive wells today in Texas, a little over
one hundred thousand, about one hundred and eleven. When you
really boil down and look at that, some of those
may not have been inactive but for a year, and
(43:34):
so they may be coming back online. There's lots of
reasons an operator would take a well inactive. They may
have trolls with a well. There may be you know,
pricing economic conditions to take that well offline. There may
be just you know, a variety of things, and so
it's nothing to get alarmed about. But we do know
that when they've been around a long time, they need
(43:56):
to be taken care of. And that's what the legislature's doing,
and that's what the Rail Commission is record of delivery on.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
And I want to close out with the majority of
the operators. Now, these were not their abandoned wells. We're
talking about over one hundred years. I'm sure these companies
no longer existed then. We did things differently. Back then,
we didn't really think about the environment. So a lot
is changing for the better, and we see the industry
moving along considering all the economic I'm sorry, all of
(44:23):
the environmental impacts and how do we continue to build
our energy strong here but also think of the environment.
I think they're doing an excellent job. I'm glad the
elected officials had a great session we talk about energy
and Todd, thank you for coming on the show again
and getting this update. I always enjoy having techsoga. You
all are the Bible when we talk about oil and gas.
(44:43):
All the knowledge is in there, you all hold it.
You're one of the best agencies to come in and
get our listeners up to speed on what's going on
in the oil and gas world. Thank you for joining
me and being my guest on today's show.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Thanks Kim, I'm great to be with you.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
The Energy Mix radio show is where we explore topics
that affect us all in the oil and gas industry.
Every week, our host will interview the movers and shakers
in this fast paced industry. You'll hear from industry experts,
elected officials, and many more on the Energy Mix radio
show
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