Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The bill that came out of the House and the Senate,
and then is to be worked out between the two,
the reconciliation process it's called because they're different bills, because
there's a lot of haggling it goes on behind the scenes.
It was at Trump's direction, and he still has control
(00:21):
over the Republicans in the House in the Senate, at
least enough control to get what he wants done, which
is why the day before July fourth, as we expected,
at the last minute, a bill was passed. Passing a
bill at the last minute also gives a congressman some
cover when they do that which their district doesn't want
(00:44):
them to do, because they say, well, it was the
last minute, we had to do it. I didn't want
to do it. If I'd had more time, I would
have done this, this or this. But that bill passing
it was important to Trump to get another off of
what he wanted that he understood by strategy. This is
his second term, not his first, makes a big difference.
(01:07):
He understood he needed everything in what we used to
call an omnibus bill. You've got to get everything into
one bill, because if you start trying to get one
thing here and one thing there you will get picked apart.
So in order to get what Bob wants, you get
Bob to vote for something that Sam wants. And in
(01:28):
order to get Jane what she wants, she has to
vote for what Bob and Sam want, even though those
are two things she wouldn't otherwise vote for. That's how
you get a good deal. You have to give enough
people enough things. That's how they got Lisa Murkowski from
Alaska to vote for this, which they desperately needed, is
they gave her some goodies for Alaska at the last
(01:50):
minute to cut a deal, and of course she did.
We haven't really talked about what's in it, but it's
going to have a huge impact on every single person
that files taxes, I mean, just the reality. The good
news is, I don't think it's going to be a
huge change for most people. There are some things funded
(02:11):
in the bill, like ice at a level we've never
seen more than I think all militaries except for two.
But I wanted to talk about how this affects you
and your businesses. So I have talked to my CPAs
at Deroche Partners throughout this process, and I've been tracking
with them various elements in there, not so much as
(02:34):
it affects me, but as it affects business owners, small
and medium sized business owners out there where this is
going to hit the most. I have asked Aaron McPhee
with Deroche Partners to join us, and he's our guest.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Welcome, Hey, Michael, how are you good?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
So, Aaron, my understanding is, and that's from a lot
of cursory reading. I did go to the Tax Foundation
morning and look at their final kind of cut, at
this swipe, at this, and my understanding is, you would say,
to most middle income earners and small business owners by
(03:13):
and large, there's nothing dramatic in this bill. Can we
start with that?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, I'd agree. You know, a lot of this is
aimed at middle income. You know, it's extending a lot
of the things that happened in twenty seventeen that we
have been following for the last number of years, and
so not a whole lot of changes, a lot of
it's being extended and most time through twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
And that's important for people to understand because what many
did not I think what many did not realize is
the tax cuts that Trump put into place in twenty
seventeen we're both very popular and very effective. They spurred
an economy that in January of twenty twenty we were
really seeing accelerated and on fire. Those tax cuts were
(04:04):
set to expire. So the big victory of the One
Big Beautiful Bill was to extend those tax cuts. That's
hard for people to get excited about, but realizing what
you were about to lose is and maybe I think
Republicans didn't do a good job of explaining that.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Right. That is correct. You know, tax rates were about
to go back up. You know, the highest rate was
a thirty seven point six percent, so keeping it at
thirty five at the top rate. Also, all the lower
rates are staying where they are, so that's going to
have a big impact I think on individuals versus what
(04:44):
could have happened.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Let's talk about some of those provisions and how you
expect to guide your business owner clients and high net
worth individual clients. Aaron McPhee is our guest. We start
with the estate planning and that sort of One of
the things I read from folks who have reviewed this
that I respect, who are more tax scholars and tax
(05:05):
experts in talking to you folks, is that the good
news is this provides a degree of stability. But when
we talk about folks planning their estate and what they're
going to pass to their kids, talk a little bit
about the minor change in that.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, So they essentially set the estate threshold, your lifetime
exemption that you get where it currently is, and they
thendexed it to inflation, whereas it was set to revert
back to twenty seventeen thresholds. And of course time value
(05:43):
money things are more expensive now, you know, it didn't
make sense to go back to that threshold. So they
decided to go ahead and bump it back to where
it was and keep it at a permanent level there.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
When you look, let me ask you a more open
end question, and I guess we'll have to wait until
no I got time. If you're calling a business owner
of a mid sized business or a high net worth
end of it, let's start with a mid sized business
and you say, here's one thing in this bill that
I think you're really going to like. What would that be?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I think the bonus appreciation going back to one hundred
percent is huge for business owners. That's probably the key
thing I would think that they would be interested in
because it was set to be at forty percent for
twenty twenty five. So you spend a dollar today, you
don't get to deduct all of it in the year
that you spend the money. You have to spread it
(06:41):
out over a number of years, and so bringing back
that bonus appreciation is key.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I think it also should spur a lot of economic
activity because everybody's looking at the here and love right, absolutely,
and that's the sort of thing that matters. We talk
a lot about the salt cap, the state and local
tax deduction, and that has a lot to do with
high tax states like California and low tax states like
(07:09):
Florida and Texas. Where does that end up.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, So they have raised the cap up to forty
thousand dollars and it is index for inflation, and there
are caps and face downs for higher income individuals. So
what that means is more Texans are going to be
able to deduct their full property tax that they pay
each year, which is a big help, I think because
most most of the property taxes were capped at the
(07:38):
ten thousand dollars level, and so now they've got a
little bit more breathing room to be able to take
that deduction.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I want to come back with just one moment. I
want to come back to that issue and what that
looks like. Dollars and cents will create a hypothetical Aaron
mclee with Deroch Partners our g Us More on the
One Big Beautiful tax Bill coming up on The Michael
Berry Show. Several years ago, I set about trying to
(08:11):
create a one stop shop for our listeners for financial
services of various types. But I wanted to get the
right folks with the right core competence, the right heart
for it, who were fans of the show, so they
would understand our values and they would understand the kind
(08:31):
of people we were sending them. And that meant somebody
to handle estate planning, meant someone to handle financial planning.
Estate planning we do Christine Weaver financial planning, Steve O,
my friend Mark Lopez and John and Andy McGee and
credit card processing, and I wanted all of that under
(08:52):
one roof. And I wanted someone who could handle the
tax strategy, not just a CPA, but could handle the
CPA portion, but a tax strategy. One of the things
I've noted over the years is that when I start
asking questions off air that I would never ask on air,
you know what, what's the plan when you sell? How
(09:17):
strategic are you in not only complying with tax laws
but aggressively finding ways to cut costs, to cut taxes,
to look for ways that tax laws will guide you
to make more money if you simply do something that
would be very natural to your business anyway. So Deroche
(09:38):
Partners was the partner we chose. Aaron McPhee is one
of the partners there. He is our guest, to be clear,
the person who did my taxes for thirty years, my
dear friend, Bob fu mcgaughey. He is a wonderful guy.
I our business got bigger, and I wanted I wanted
a partner who could handle that, who could handle a
(10:00):
lot of our clients. And he tends to do more
individual returns. So I still send people if you just
have a basic income tax return, I still send them there.
For our folks who run businesses or who are high
net worth individuals, our partner for that is to Roche Partners.
That's their expertise. It would be overkilled for them to
(10:23):
handle the average plant worker. I wouldn't tell you to
do that, but we have a lot of folks out
there that run businesses that are growing or that they're
looking to sell, and Deroch Partners is for that. I
say all that just so you understand where I am
in all this. Aaron McPhee is our guest to Roch
Partners erin. I'm just going to read you a couple
of headlines. When you google small business owner and small business,
(10:46):
you know it's one of those things like the middle class.
There are a lot of people who consider themselves a
small business owner, and they're way bigger than a small
business owner. The SBA makes loans to folks that aren't
really a small business owner. But how businesses and manufacturers
will benefit from OBB here's who stands to gain. Let
me see, Senate's Big Beautiful bill is a disaster for
(11:07):
small business. One big beautiful Bill simplified permanent relief for
small businesses. When you are kind of passing judgment on
the one big Beautiful Bill as relates to small business owners,
let's forget what it does to the deficit. Let's forget
what it does to everything else, even the individual taxpayer.
(11:27):
Let's talk about the small business owner and does he
win or lose from this? And how.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I think he wins. There's several key aspects in the
bill that are very promising for small business owners. A
lot of these things are phased out once you get
into the larger revenue thresholds. But some of the big
ones is the qualified business income pass through deduction. They
increase that to twenty three percent to kind of help
(11:57):
level the playing field with C corporations, which are are
your big corporations. And they also allowed for the immediate
expensing of research and I guess design costs, which you
had to capitalize and spread those costs over five years.
You know, I think they would want to I guess
(12:19):
reward any I guess innovation that's out there. And so
by allowing this full expensing whenever you incur the cost
really helps that. I think.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
There is also a lot of reference to R and
D search and development. How does this affect that.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
So as part of the original twenty seventeen tax law
in twenty twenty two, companies that were doing research and
development had to capitalize or they had to basically not
deduct those costs, and they had to spread that cost
(13:03):
over five years. And so by changing this piece of
the bill, they were able to allow immediate deduction for
any costs that are incurred for research and development purposes,
and those have to be domestic research and development costs.
Any foreign R and D that's performed has to be
(13:25):
spread over fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Oh sorry, I had my Michael that Again, that's consistent
with Trump's approach that the tariffs and a lot of
these things are to encourage American manufacturing and to encourage
things on American soil, and that's now baked into the
tax policy. Is there anything about the one big Beautiful
bill that you know tax policy tends to encourage and
(13:52):
discourage behaviors. Are there things you expect to see start
or stop as behaviors by businesses as a result of
this bill.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I think one of the surprising things was the new
floor that's on charitable contributions for itemized Yeah, doctor, I
saw that. That's that was I think a revenue raiser
that they had to put in there to kind of
balance things out. So essentially, half a percent of your
income is your is your threshold. Once you get above
(14:26):
that you can deduct your charity, and anything below that
carries forward. But I thought that was kind of an
interesting thing in there.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I did too, and I was following the bill as
it was going through and I was in d C.
So I was meeting with DC folks and we were
talking about what was in the bill and what's being
battled over and what may or may not pass, and
what I didn't see coming. And to state that again, folks,
one half of one percent of your income, if you
(15:00):
make one hundred thousand dollars, five hundred dollars would be
the floor. If you give less than that, correct me
if I'm wrong, Aaron. If you give less than that,
you cannot deduct your charitable contribution. Right, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
If you're an itemizer, there is an above the line
deduction for charity, which I think leaves is around two
thousand dollars. So but yeah, anything on your itemized deductions,
if you're below that threshold, you can't deduct it. You
have to carry it forward to a future year.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I want to talk about that in a moment, Aaron.
I read on the itemizers that with this standard deduction,
they have reduced and I'm going to get the number wrong,
but I want to say, from forty down to thirty
and now only ten percent of filers itemized. Does that
sound right? People have really gotten away from that.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, that definitely could be because the standard deduction is
so high, especially for married couples. Is filing jointly? All right?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Hold with me for just a moment erin mcphe is
our guest partner CPA strategy that our country is failing
you today, invest in Kleenics, ladies and gentlemen. And this
is the Michael Berry Show. Aaron mc is our guest.
(16:23):
He is a partner at Droch Partners, a tax strategy
firm which is sort of like CPA's on steroids for
businesses and high net worth individuals. Unlike the average person
who simply files a tax return. There are a lot
of implications to profitability. There are a lot of implications
(16:45):
to whether to hire people, how to classify those folks,
where to spend your money, when to spend your money,
to maximize the tax advantages or reduce the overall tax consequences,
and run your business wisely. And every business should do that,
you know. Donald Trump made that statement and Dave Chappelle,
(17:07):
one of my favorite Dave Chappelle bits is he said
I knew Trump was going to win when Hillary Clinton
said Donald Trump hasn't been paying taxes and he is
there for evil and he said, that's true. And you
wrote those laws and you chose not to change those
laws because all your rich friends wouldn't let you, So
(17:28):
you're disingenuous. And I think that was one of those moments,
as Chappelle said, where people began to understand you have
to be very wise about the law on the books,
and you need strategists behind you to help you do
that because you're not reading this boring language, I assure you.
Aaron mcpeeder Roach Partners is our guests eron. One of
the things I read was one hundred percent deduction for
(17:52):
private school vouchers. And again, it's unfair to ask you
about this little little tedious stuff. Is that something that's
on your screen.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I haven't dug that far into the bill yet.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah, that happened to be a private don't worry. I
also saw that the five twenty nine expenditure restrictions have
been loosened so that it's not just for your kid's education,
but it's also things related to education, private tuition and
things like that. That expands the use of that fund.
(18:27):
And I don't know if that's made it on your
it's not a small business advisory.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they they've expanded the coverage to include
K through twelve and some post secondary expenses, and there
are higher annual contribution limits. So that's definitely I think
a benefit to you know, parents trying to figure out
how they're going to pay for the high cost of education.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Your value added in partner partner's value it is that
what most people who run a business on a larger
scale are reading in the news is how does the
tax affect the average taxpayer? Because the reporters don't understand
(19:16):
the more sophisticated and complicated levels of what the tax
needs of your clients are. For those folks, what would
you say generally when they're asking you, Hey, how's that?
How does this affect my business? Are high net worth individuals,
my estate, my family fund? What do you say to
those people? What are the highlights?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I tell them? You know, there's a lot of things
in this bill that are beneficial, especially for your business,
you know, with the most appreciation and R and D
expenditures and other things. And there's also a new qualified
small business stock exclusion out there. So if you're a
small all business owner C corporation, you can sell that
(20:04):
at a gain and not pay tax on the sale
of that stock. So there's a lot of really good
things out there for business owners, and so I just
encourage them to reach out to us as soon as
they can. A lot of times you'll have somebody that's
running their business. They're in the details of the day
to day, and then they come across this big transaction,
(20:27):
maybe they're going to sell their business, and they go
a certain bit down the road and then they finally
call us. But you know, the sooner they can get
us involved in the transaction, you know, even if they're
just thinking about it, if they can call us and
get us involved in that, we can actually optimize the
planning for them. So, you know, the sooner we can
(20:50):
get in there and help them, you know, the more
we can do. If you get too far down the road,
there's a lot of things that are off the table
as far as options.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
When both come to you and it is too late
in the process for you to be able to help
the way you would want to. Are there a couple
of things that always pop up. You go, gosh, I
wish I'd been helping you five years or even two
years ago, that we could have done differently the way
we structured your business, the way you fund this, or
where you fund or how much you fund.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, i'd say, you know, with the growth of the business.
A lot of times it's from us an a state perspective.
You want to have a lot of that appreciation, pull
out of your estate and in some sort of a
planning vehicle, like a trust or a family partnership or
things like that, so that when you do sell, you
(21:43):
keep more of the money that you make off the
sale and don't have to pay it to the US government.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I read a lot of newsletters and bulletins and these
advisories and wellness and finance and a number of other things.
And one of the things that is constant throughout is
the disposition of your estate prior to the point that
you retire or die. So beginning to shed your assets
(22:14):
and your estate earlier and earlier to minimize the task consequences.
And it's one of those things that I don't think
most people, the average person, the average business owner, I
don't think they think on those terms. I think they
rush to the finish line of getting the business up
and selling it and maximizing the money. But you don't
realize how much you lost in the process by not
(22:35):
beginning the shedding process earlier.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Right, And you don't have to wait till you sell
to get rid of you that extra value out of
your estate. And you don't have to give up control either.
There's ways that we can structure things so that you
know you've made the planning and you've passed along a
lot of the value to your errors, but you still
(23:01):
retain control over the operations of the business. And that's
just one of the things that we can help out with.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Leif Nixon, who's one of your partners who I work
with a lot. When I ask him for show prep,
he'll send me ideas and things. And I've asked him,
people don't want to be audited, and if you don't
want to be audited, what are some and he says, well,
the things that they're looking at hard is and top
(23:30):
tax defenders, which is one of our show sponsors, which
you know, this is all they do is dealing with
the irs when people are under attack. Is there the
more ten ninety nine you have, they're going to look
hard at you. And the number of people that you
have as ten ninety Nine's that frankly should be employees
because now they're getting not getting their taxes. That's where
they're going to go after you, whether you're the ten
(23:52):
ninety nine employee or the employee or you see a
lot of that.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, we do, actually, and that's one of the key
points that the IRIS tries to look look for. Uh,
you know, every business has to submit W two's ten
ninety nine s. The IRIS guts a copy of that,
and there's software crunches the numbers and looks at things.
If they see a number that's out of whack compared
(24:18):
to other businesses of your size or in the same industry,
then they're going to pull that and they're going to
take a look at a closer look at that.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
It's interesting in the old days you talk about a
red flag that this or that was. I have friends
that they won't buy a private jet because that's the
red flag. But but in the old days of red flag,
a human being had to catch it with AI. Today
they send this thing through the system and they say,
our algorithm tells us that if you're doing this, this,
and this, you're likely cheating. Boy. They it is easy
(24:52):
to flag you and narrow that down Aaron McPhee De
Roche Partners. Thank you for being with us, my man.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
You bet enjoy treasure.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Don't messing around with old. This is the Michael Barry
Show Community Foundation of Kurrville. Is, I am told, the
most reputable place to donate in for the for the floods.
(25:21):
There are a number of other causes out there. That
is not to say they're not good. There are a
number of people. I got contacted by a woman whose
husband is a Navy seal, and they have gathered up
some Navy seals. I think they raised about seventy thousand
dollars and they're going in there and they're getting after it.
They're cutting down limbs and hauling trees. And there are
(25:44):
good people doing good things. Dave Alexander's a friend of
some friends. There are good people doing really good things.
Pinkerton's dropped off loads of food and in many of you,
in your own way, are doing I can't put them
all in the air. There are lots of charities that
have sprung up. I'm sure they're all great, and I
(26:05):
mean that I just can't mention all of them. I
just can't so anyway, but you folks are great the
Navy Seal Guy. The group is called three hundred Justice
and the Seal Future Foundation. They're in desperate need of chainsaws,
flotation devices, tarp's body bags, and cadaver dogs. They've raised
(26:28):
seventy thousand dollars in two days. One hundred percent of
donations go directly in aiding degrade to aid the rescue team,
and that group is called three hundred Justice. That's just
one that popped up on my screen. I try to
weave our show sponsors into the content of the show
because these are people that I rely on personally for
(26:49):
the goods and services they provide. I find that to
be a useful part of the presentation of what we're doing,
and I hope you do as well when you do
look for a service provider. I appreciate it when you
reach out to me directly through our website Michael Barryshow
dot com and say, hey, I need your Foundation guy,
(27:13):
I need your Gold guy, I need your person that
helps with medicare to walk me through that or any
number of other things. I thoroughly enjoy that. It makes
me feel like a badass. Somebody over here has a problem.
They reach out to me because they trust me, and
(27:35):
we commute. We have a connection every day on the air,
and then I reach out to my show sponsor and say, hey,
give this person a great experience, and I hope they
give everybody a great experience, but I know you're going
to get a great experience now because I'm watching, and
they know that, and so they want to show out
to me. For most of our show sponsors, we are
(27:58):
responsible for a sizable portion of their business. They don't
want us unhappy. So we're like our own better Business Bureau,
and I do crack down and we have fired clients
and it's a very unpleasant process, but we have done
it when we get too many complaints. And if there
is a complaint, and you ever trust my judgment, I
(28:19):
forward that to the owner. Now I will tell you
I've had some listeners who are nuts and it was
clear to me they were nuts from the email, or
it's clear based on other emails they've sent, but I
forward it and the person will send the response. And
the way that usually works is, hey, Michael, you connected
me with so and so, but or they'll go to
(28:40):
them without asking me. You told me to go to
so and so. I called them and they've never responded.
So I'll call this happened with Top Tax Defenders. They've
never responded. It's been ten days. Call Top Tax Defenders
got the owner of the company on there and he said, Michael,
if that person, well, I can send you the record
(29:01):
of how many times we called. Well, that's one of
the few companies that does something nobody. They actually enter
through their phone system every day, log every call that
was made. So I sent back miss Jones or Miss Smith. Hey,
here's the log of them responding to you. Oh my god,
I gave the number to the shop out back. We
(29:23):
live in the house. We haven't been out. My fault.
We'll get on this. So the long and short of
that was you're gonna get great attention. That's the business
model I built. I am unashamed to talk about business.
Business doesn't have to be a dirty word. You do
business with people you like to do business with. And
I have built a community of folks that I like
(29:45):
that share our values. That's why when for Eddie and
he makes me do the damn Saint Jude golf tournament
every Christmas, I have to beg y'all for money. And
he can't believe every year, how much money we raise.
That's why our family Foundation, that's why we're selling out
the poem be each the PB three event. Our folks
want to do business with people that share our values,
(30:07):
with whom they're going to have a good experience and
in many cases make friends. And that's the model. And
we worked, we built the model. We worked the model
and it works. Now. Ramone and his lazy ass is
on vacation, which is why Jim Mudd is having to
come in and do Jim's job and Ramone's job today.
See Chad is on vacation quote unquote, he's in Hawaii
(30:27):
visiting his family, but on a five hour time difference,
he's still doing his job. Ramone, He's got his two
boys in the back seat and they are catting around.
Although Karma, I didn't tell you this yet. Jim Ramone
leaves his gun in the hotel room. I just called
him during the break said, hey, Budd, just check it
on you. I'm all right, you're on vacation. What's wrong?
(30:48):
He goes the interview sounds good, okay, but what's the problem. Well,
we headed out this morning from Fort Worth. We got up,
we made good time. We're on the road. We're having
a great time, and two hours of way, I get
a call from the hotel, Sir, you left your gun
in the room. Ah, he said, I'm not proud of
the fit. I pitched in my truck driving along. So
(31:11):
he is on his way back. So that's four hours
of driving he will do today for absolutely no good.
Now that's aggravating. So in the last couple of days,
the President over the weekend said that our deportation efforts
will not include farms and manufacturing facilities. We will leave
that to the owners of those shops because they know
(31:36):
they have their own ability to know which illegals they need,
and they don't. Don't send me hate email. I'll play
the audio if you want. He said it. I understand
Trump can do no wrong ever, no matter what he does.
I just I'm saying what he said. No, that's going
to make some of you anger. I'm not supposed to
say it. He didn't mean it or whatever the thing.
(31:58):
But okay, fine, that's fine. We also have learned as
of last night, there is no Epstein list. So Dan
Bongino on his show for years has said there was
an Epstein list. Now he says there's no Epstein list.
I don't think Dan Bongino lied for the last five years.
(32:22):
I don't know what happened to the Epstein list, but
I don't think Cash or Dan Bongino believe that there's
no Epstein list, because if there's no Epstein list, then
why is giland Maxwell in prison in the first place.
And now today we're sending weapons to Ukraine. And again,
I'm not here to question things that obsess people. If
(32:44):
I question things, I'll be primaried. But it does seem
odd particularly when all these people Pam Bondi has now
answered the when she said that they were releasing the
Epstein list, and then they brought all the influencers in
and then oh, they give them the binder of all
the epsteinas all it was all blacked out. I think
(33:08):
they think this thing is going away. My guess is
you've got some powerful people outside the United States driving
this list. And yes, there are people more influential in
the administration than Donald Trump. Unfortunately, when we're saying that
you can be in the country illegally and not be
deported because of the industry you're in farm workers, that
(33:32):
seems to me to be a very odd message. The
President said, there will be some right wing crazies or
right wing I forget what he called right wing wackos
or whatever who won't like it, but they'll get over it. Okay,
Who am I to question? Turns out not all illegal
(33:54):
aliens are bad, just the ones that don't work on farms.
The bill that came out of the House and the Senate,
and then is to be worked out between the two,
the reconciliation process it's called because they're different bills, because
there's a lot of haggling it goes on behind the scenes.
It was at Trump's direction, and he still has control
(00:21):
over the Republicans in the House in the Senate, at
least enough control to get what he wants done, which
is why the day before July fourth, as we expected,
at the last minute, a bill was passed. Passing a
bill at the last minute also gives a congressman some
cover when they do that which their district doesn't want
(00:44):
them to do, because they say, well, it was the
last minute, we had to do it. I didn't want
to do it. If I'd had more time, I would
have done this, this or this. But that bill passing
it was important to Trump to get another off of
what he wanted that he understood by strategy. This is
his second term, not his first, makes a big difference.
(01:07):
He understood he needed everything in what we used to
call an omnibus bill. You've got to get everything into
one bill, because if you start trying to get one
thing here and one thing there you will get picked apart.
So in order to get what Bob wants, you get
Bob to vote for something that Sam wants. And in
(01:28):
order to get Jane what she wants, she has to
vote for what Bob and Sam want, even though those
are two things she wouldn't otherwise vote for. That's how
you get a good deal. You have to give enough
people enough things. That's how they got Lisa Murkowski from
Alaska to vote for this, which they desperately needed, is
they gave her some goodies for Alaska at the last
(01:50):
minute to cut a deal, and of course she did.
We haven't really talked about what's in it, but it's
going to have a huge impact on every single person
that files taxes, I mean, just the reality. The good
news is, I don't think it's going to be a
huge change for most people. There are some things funded
(02:11):
in the bill, like ice at a level we've never
seen more than I think all militaries except for two.
But I wanted to talk about how this affects you
and your businesses. So I have talked to my CPAs
at Deroche Partners throughout this process, and I've been tracking
with them various elements in there, not so much as
(02:34):
it affects me, but as it affects business owners, small
and medium sized business owners out there where this is
going to hit the most. I have asked Aaron McPhee
with Deroche Partners to join us, and he's our guest.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Welcome, Hey, Michael, how are you good?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
So, Aaron, my understanding is, and that's from a lot
of cursory reading. I did go to the Tax Foundation
morning and look at their final kind of cut, at
this swipe, at this, and my understanding is, you would say,
to most middle income earners and small business owners by
(03:13):
and large, there's nothing dramatic in this bill. Can we
start with that?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, I'd agree. You know, a lot of this is
aimed at middle income. You know, it's extending a lot
of the things that happened in twenty seventeen that we
have been following for the last number of years, and
so not a whole lot of changes, a lot of
it's being extended and most time through twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
And that's important for people to understand because what many
did not I think what many did not realize is
the tax cuts that Trump put into place in twenty
seventeen we're both very popular and very effective. They spurred
an economy that in January of twenty twenty we were
really seeing accelerated and on fire. Those tax cuts were
(04:04):
set to expire. So the big victory of the One
Big Beautiful Bill was to extend those tax cuts. That's
hard for people to get excited about, but realizing what
you were about to lose is and maybe I think
Republicans didn't do a good job of explaining that.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Right. That is correct. You know, tax rates were about
to go back up. You know, the highest rate was
a thirty seven point six percent, so keeping it at
thirty five at the top rate. Also, all the lower
rates are staying where they are, so that's going to
have a big impact I think on individuals versus what
(04:44):
could have happened.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Let's talk about some of those provisions and how you
expect to guide your business owner clients and high net
worth individual clients. Aaron McPhee is our guest. We start
with the estate planning and that sort of One of
the things I read from folks who have reviewed this
that I respect, who are more tax scholars and tax
(05:05):
experts in talking to you folks, is that the good
news is this provides a degree of stability. But when
we talk about folks planning their estate and what they're
going to pass to their kids, talk a little bit
about the minor change in that.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, So they essentially set the estate threshold, your lifetime
exemption that you get where it currently is, and they
thendexed it to inflation, whereas it was set to revert
back to twenty seventeen thresholds. And of course time value
(05:43):
money things are more expensive now, you know, it didn't
make sense to go back to that threshold. So they
decided to go ahead and bump it back to where
it was and keep it at a permanent level there.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
When you look, let me ask you a more open
end question, and I guess we'll have to wait until
no I got time. If you're calling a business owner
of a mid sized business or a high net worth
end of it, let's start with a mid sized business
and you say, here's one thing in this bill that
I think you're really going to like. What would that be?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I think the bonus appreciation going back to one hundred
percent is huge for business owners. That's probably the key
thing I would think that they would be interested in
because it was set to be at forty percent for
twenty twenty five. So you spend a dollar today, you
don't get to deduct all of it in the year
that you spend the money. You have to spread it
(06:41):
out over a number of years, and so bringing back
that bonus appreciation is key.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I think it also should spur a lot of economic
activity because everybody's looking at the here and love right, absolutely,
and that's the sort of thing that matters. We talk
a lot about the salt cap, the state and local
tax deduction, and that has a lot to do with
high tax states like California and low tax states like
(07:09):
Florida and Texas. Where does that end up.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, So they have raised the cap up to forty
thousand dollars and it is index for inflation, and there
are caps and face downs for higher income individuals. So
what that means is more Texans are going to be
able to deduct their full property tax that they pay
each year, which is a big help, I think because
most most of the property taxes were capped at the
(07:38):
ten thousand dollars level, and so now they've got a
little bit more breathing room to be able to take
that deduction.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I want to come back with just one moment. I
want to come back to that issue and what that
looks like. Dollars and cents will create a hypothetical Aaron
mclee with Deroch Partners our g Us More on the
One Big Beautiful tax Bill coming up on The Michael
Berry Show. Several years ago, I set about trying to
(08:11):
create a one stop shop for our listeners for financial
services of various types. But I wanted to get the
right folks with the right core competence, the right heart
for it, who were fans of the show, so they
would understand our values and they would understand the kind
(08:31):
of people we were sending them. And that meant somebody
to handle estate planning, meant someone to handle financial planning.
Estate planning we do Christine Weaver financial planning, Steve O,
my friend Mark Lopez and John and Andy McGee and
credit card processing, and I wanted all of that under
(08:52):
one roof. And I wanted someone who could handle the
tax strategy, not just a CPA, but could handle the
CPA portion, but a tax strategy. One of the things
I've noted over the years is that when I start
asking questions off air that I would never ask on air,
you know what, what's the plan when you sell? How
(09:17):
strategic are you in not only complying with tax laws
but aggressively finding ways to cut costs, to cut taxes,
to look for ways that tax laws will guide you
to make more money if you simply do something that
would be very natural to your business anyway. So Deroche
(09:38):
Partners was the partner we chose. Aaron McPhee is one
of the partners there. He is our guest, to be clear,
the person who did my taxes for thirty years, my
dear friend, Bob fu mcgaughey. He is a wonderful guy.
I our business got bigger, and I wanted I wanted
a partner who could handle that, who could handle a
(10:00):
lot of our clients. And he tends to do more
individual returns. So I still send people if you just
have a basic income tax return, I still send them there.
For our folks who run businesses or who are high
net worth individuals, our partner for that is to Roche Partners.
That's their expertise. It would be overkilled for them to
(10:23):
handle the average plant worker. I wouldn't tell you to
do that, but we have a lot of folks out
there that run businesses that are growing or that they're
looking to sell, and Deroch Partners is for that. I
say all that just so you understand where I am
in all this. Aaron McPhee is our guest to Roch
Partners erin. I'm just going to read you a couple
of headlines. When you google small business owner and small business,
(10:46):
you know it's one of those things like the middle class.
There are a lot of people who consider themselves a
small business owner, and they're way bigger than a small
business owner. The SBA makes loans to folks that aren't
really a small business owner. But how businesses and manufacturers
will benefit from OBB here's who stands to gain. Let
me see, Senate's Big Beautiful bill is a disaster for
(11:07):
small business. One big beautiful Bill simplified permanent relief for
small businesses. When you are kind of passing judgment on
the one big Beautiful Bill as relates to small business owners,
let's forget what it does to the deficit. Let's forget
what it does to everything else, even the individual taxpayer.
(11:27):
Let's talk about the small business owner and does he
win or lose from this? And how.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I think he wins. There's several key aspects in the
bill that are very promising for small business owners. A
lot of these things are phased out once you get
into the larger revenue thresholds. But some of the big
ones is the qualified business income pass through deduction. They
increase that to twenty three percent to kind of help
(11:57):
level the playing field with C corporations, which are are
your big corporations. And they also allowed for the immediate
expensing of research and I guess design costs, which you
had to capitalize and spread those costs over five years.
You know, I think they would want to I guess
(12:19):
reward any I guess innovation that's out there. And so
by allowing this full expensing whenever you incur the cost
really helps that. I think.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
There is also a lot of reference to R and
D search and development. How does this affect that.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
So as part of the original twenty seventeen tax law
in twenty twenty two, companies that were doing research and
development had to capitalize or they had to basically not
deduct those costs, and they had to spread that cost
(13:03):
over five years. And so by changing this piece of
the bill, they were able to allow immediate deduction for
any costs that are incurred for research and development purposes,
and those have to be domestic research and development costs.
Any foreign R and D that's performed has to be
(13:25):
spread over fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Oh sorry, I had my Michael that Again, that's consistent
with Trump's approach that the tariffs and a lot of
these things are to encourage American manufacturing and to encourage
things on American soil, and that's now baked into the
tax policy. Is there anything about the one big Beautiful
bill that you know tax policy tends to encourage and
(13:52):
discourage behaviors. Are there things you expect to see start
or stop as behaviors by businesses as a result of
this bill.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I think one of the surprising things was the new
floor that's on charitable contributions for itemized Yeah, doctor, I
saw that. That's that was I think a revenue raiser
that they had to put in there to kind of
balance things out. So essentially, half a percent of your
income is your is your threshold. Once you get above
(14:26):
that you can deduct your charity, and anything below that
carries forward. But I thought that was kind of an
interesting thing in there.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I did too, and I was following the bill as
it was going through and I was in d C.
So I was meeting with DC folks and we were
talking about what was in the bill and what's being
battled over and what may or may not pass, and
what I didn't see coming. And to state that again, folks,
one half of one percent of your income, if you
(15:00):
make one hundred thousand dollars, five hundred dollars would be
the floor. If you give less than that, correct me
if I'm wrong, Aaron. If you give less than that,
you cannot deduct your charitable contribution. Right, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
If you're an itemizer, there is an above the line
deduction for charity, which I think leaves is around two
thousand dollars. So but yeah, anything on your itemized deductions,
if you're below that threshold, you can't deduct it. You
have to carry it forward to a future year.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I want to talk about that in a moment, Aaron.
I read on the itemizers that with this standard deduction,
they have reduced and I'm going to get the number wrong,
but I want to say, from forty down to thirty
and now only ten percent of filers itemized. Does that
sound right? People have really gotten away from that.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, that definitely could be because the standard deduction is
so high, especially for married couples. Is filing jointly? All right?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Hold with me for just a moment erin mcphe is
our guest partner CPA strategy that our country is failing
you today, invest in Kleenics, ladies and gentlemen. And this
is the Michael Berry Show. Aaron mc is our guest.
(16:23):
He is a partner at Droch Partners, a tax strategy
firm which is sort of like CPA's on steroids for
businesses and high net worth individuals. Unlike the average person
who simply files a tax return. There are a lot
of implications to profitability. There are a lot of implications
(16:45):
to whether to hire people, how to classify those folks,
where to spend your money, when to spend your money,
to maximize the tax advantages or reduce the overall tax consequences,
and run your business wisely. And every business should do that,
you know. Donald Trump made that statement and Dave Chappelle,
(17:07):
one of my favorite Dave Chappelle bits is he said
I knew Trump was going to win when Hillary Clinton
said Donald Trump hasn't been paying taxes and he is
there for evil and he said, that's true. And you
wrote those laws and you chose not to change those
laws because all your rich friends wouldn't let you, So
(17:28):
you're disingenuous. And I think that was one of those moments,
as Chappelle said, where people began to understand you have
to be very wise about the law on the books,
and you need strategists behind you to help you do
that because you're not reading this boring language, I assure you.
Aaron mcpeeder Roach Partners is our guests eron. One of
the things I read was one hundred percent deduction for
(17:52):
private school vouchers. And again, it's unfair to ask you
about this little little tedious stuff. Is that something that's
on your screen.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I haven't dug that far into the bill yet.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah, that happened to be a private don't worry. I
also saw that the five twenty nine expenditure restrictions have
been loosened so that it's not just for your kid's education,
but it's also things related to education, private tuition and
things like that. That expands the use of that fund.
(18:27):
And I don't know if that's made it on your
it's not a small business advisory.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they they've expanded the coverage to include
K through twelve and some post secondary expenses, and there
are higher annual contribution limits. So that's definitely I think
a benefit to you know, parents trying to figure out
how they're going to pay for the high cost of education.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Your value added in partner partner's value it is that
what most people who run a business on a larger
scale are reading in the news is how does the
tax affect the average taxpayer? Because the reporters don't understand
(19:16):
the more sophisticated and complicated levels of what the tax
needs of your clients are. For those folks, what would
you say generally when they're asking you, Hey, how's that?
How does this affect my business? Are high net worth individuals,
my estate, my family fund? What do you say to
those people? What are the highlights?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I tell them? You know, there's a lot of things
in this bill that are beneficial, especially for your business,
you know, with the most appreciation and R and D
expenditures and other things. And there's also a new qualified
small business stock exclusion out there. So if you're a
small all business owner C corporation, you can sell that
(20:04):
at a gain and not pay tax on the sale
of that stock. So there's a lot of really good
things out there for business owners, and so I just
encourage them to reach out to us as soon as
they can. A lot of times you'll have somebody that's
running their business. They're in the details of the day
to day, and then they come across this big transaction,
(20:27):
maybe they're going to sell their business, and they go
a certain bit down the road and then they finally
call us. But you know, the sooner they can get
us involved in the transaction, you know, even if they're
just thinking about it, if they can call us and
get us involved in that, we can actually optimize the
planning for them. So, you know, the sooner we can
(20:50):
get in there and help them, you know, the more
we can do. If you get too far down the road,
there's a lot of things that are off the table
as far as options.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
When both come to you and it is too late
in the process for you to be able to help
the way you would want to. Are there a couple
of things that always pop up. You go, gosh, I
wish I'd been helping you five years or even two
years ago, that we could have done differently the way
we structured your business, the way you fund this, or
where you fund or how much you fund.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, i'd say, you know, with the growth of the business.
A lot of times it's from us an a state perspective.
You want to have a lot of that appreciation, pull
out of your estate and in some sort of a
planning vehicle, like a trust or a family partnership or
things like that, so that when you do sell, you
(21:43):
keep more of the money that you make off the
sale and don't have to pay it to the US government.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I read a lot of newsletters and bulletins and these
advisories and wellness and finance and a number of other things.
And one of the things that is constant throughout is
the disposition of your estate prior to the point that
you retire or die. So beginning to shed your assets
(22:14):
and your estate earlier and earlier to minimize the task consequences.
And it's one of those things that I don't think
most people, the average person, the average business owner, I
don't think they think on those terms. I think they
rush to the finish line of getting the business up
and selling it and maximizing the money. But you don't
realize how much you lost in the process by not
(22:35):
beginning the shedding process earlier.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Right, And you don't have to wait till you sell
to get rid of you that extra value out of
your estate. And you don't have to give up control either.
There's ways that we can structure things so that you
know you've made the planning and you've passed along a
lot of the value to your errors, but you still
(23:01):
retain control over the operations of the business. And that's
just one of the things that we can help out with.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Leif Nixon, who's one of your partners who I work
with a lot. When I ask him for show prep,
he'll send me ideas and things. And I've asked him,
people don't want to be audited, and if you don't
want to be audited, what are some and he says, well,
the things that they're looking at hard is and top
(23:30):
tax defenders, which is one of our show sponsors, which
you know, this is all they do is dealing with
the irs when people are under attack. Is there the
more ten ninety nine you have, they're going to look
hard at you. And the number of people that you
have as ten ninety Nine's that frankly should be employees
because now they're getting not getting their taxes. That's where
they're going to go after you, whether you're the ten
(23:52):
ninety nine employee or the employee or you see a
lot of that.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, we do, actually, and that's one of the key
points that the IRIS tries to look look for. Uh,
you know, every business has to submit W two's ten
ninety nine s. The IRIS guts a copy of that,
and there's software crunches the numbers and looks at things.
If they see a number that's out of whack compared
(24:18):
to other businesses of your size or in the same industry,
then they're going to pull that and they're going to
take a look at a closer look at that.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
It's interesting in the old days you talk about a
red flag that this or that was. I have friends
that they won't buy a private jet because that's the
red flag. But but in the old days of red flag,
a human being had to catch it with AI. Today
they send this thing through the system and they say,
our algorithm tells us that if you're doing this, this,
and this, you're likely cheating. Boy. They it is easy
(24:52):
to flag you and narrow that down Aaron McPhee De
Roche Partners. Thank you for being with us, my man.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
You bet enjoy treasure.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Don't messing around with old. This is the Michael Barry
Show Community Foundation of Kurrville. Is, I am told, the
most reputable place to donate in for the for the floods.
(25:21):
There are a number of other causes out there. That
is not to say they're not good. There are a
number of people. I got contacted by a woman whose
husband is a Navy seal, and they have gathered up
some Navy seals. I think they raised about seventy thousand
dollars and they're going in there and they're getting after it.
They're cutting down limbs and hauling trees. And there are
(25:44):
good people doing good things. Dave Alexander's a friend of
some friends. There are good people doing really good things.
Pinkerton's dropped off loads of food and in many of you,
in your own way, are doing I can't put them
all in the air. There are lots of charities that
have sprung up. I'm sure they're all great, and I
(26:05):
mean that I just can't mention all of them. I
just can't so anyway, but you folks are great the
Navy Seal Guy. The group is called three hundred Justice
and the Seal Future Foundation. They're in desperate need of chainsaws,
flotation devices, tarp's body bags, and cadaver dogs. They've raised
(26:28):
seventy thousand dollars in two days. One hundred percent of
donations go directly in aiding degrade to aid the rescue team,
and that group is called three hundred Justice. That's just
one that popped up on my screen. I try to
weave our show sponsors into the content of the show
because these are people that I rely on personally for
(26:49):
the goods and services they provide. I find that to
be a useful part of the presentation of what we're doing,
and I hope you do as well when you do
look for a service provider. I appreciate it when you
reach out to me directly through our website Michael Barryshow
dot com and say, hey, I need your Foundation guy,
(27:13):
I need your Gold guy, I need your person that
helps with medicare to walk me through that or any
number of other things. I thoroughly enjoy that. It makes
me feel like a badass. Somebody over here has a problem.
They reach out to me because they trust me, and
(27:35):
we commute. We have a connection every day on the air,
and then I reach out to my show sponsor and say, hey,
give this person a great experience, and I hope they
give everybody a great experience, but I know you're going
to get a great experience now because I'm watching, and
they know that, and so they want to show out
to me. For most of our show sponsors, we are
(27:58):
responsible for a sizable portion of their business. They don't
want us unhappy. So we're like our own better Business Bureau,
and I do crack down and we have fired clients
and it's a very unpleasant process, but we have done
it when we get too many complaints. And if there
is a complaint, and you ever trust my judgment, I
(28:19):
forward that to the owner. Now I will tell you
I've had some listeners who are nuts and it was
clear to me they were nuts from the email, or
it's clear based on other emails they've sent, but I
forward it and the person will send the response. And
the way that usually works is, hey, Michael, you connected
me with so and so, but or they'll go to
(28:40):
them without asking me. You told me to go to
so and so. I called them and they've never responded.
So I'll call this happened with Top Tax Defenders. They've
never responded. It's been ten days. Call Top Tax Defenders
got the owner of the company on there and he said, Michael,
if that person, well, I can send you the record
(29:01):
of how many times we called. Well, that's one of
the few companies that does something nobody. They actually enter
through their phone system every day, log every call that
was made. So I sent back miss Jones or Miss Smith. Hey,
here's the log of them responding to you. Oh my god,
I gave the number to the shop out back. We
(29:23):
live in the house. We haven't been out. My fault.
We'll get on this. So the long and short of
that was you're gonna get great attention. That's the business
model I built. I am unashamed to talk about business.
Business doesn't have to be a dirty word. You do
business with people you like to do business with. And
I have built a community of folks that I like
(29:45):
that share our values. That's why when for Eddie and
he makes me do the damn Saint Jude golf tournament
every Christmas, I have to beg y'all for money. And
he can't believe every year, how much money we raise.
That's why our family Foundation, that's why we're selling out
the poem be each the PB three event. Our folks
want to do business with people that share our values,
(30:07):
with whom they're going to have a good experience and
in many cases make friends. And that's the model. And
we worked, we built the model. We worked the model
and it works. Now. Ramone and his lazy ass is
on vacation, which is why Jim Mudd is having to
come in and do Jim's job and Ramone's job today.
See Chad is on vacation quote unquote, he's in Hawaii
(30:27):
visiting his family, but on a five hour time difference,
he's still doing his job. Ramone, He's got his two
boys in the back seat and they are catting around.
Although Karma, I didn't tell you this yet. Jim Ramone
leaves his gun in the hotel room. I just called
him during the break said, hey, Budd, just check it
on you. I'm all right, you're on vacation. What's wrong?
(30:48):
He goes the interview sounds good, okay, but what's the problem. Well,
we headed out this morning from Fort Worth. We got up,
we made good time. We're on the road. We're having
a great time, and two hours of way, I get
a call from the hotel, Sir, you left your gun
in the room. Ah, he said, I'm not proud of
the fit. I pitched in my truck driving along. So
(31:11):
he is on his way back. So that's four hours
of driving he will do today for absolutely no good.
Now that's aggravating. So in the last couple of days,
the President over the weekend said that our deportation efforts
will not include farms and manufacturing facilities. We will leave
that to the owners of those shops because they know
(31:36):
they have their own ability to know which illegals they need,
and they don't. Don't send me hate email. I'll play
the audio if you want. He said it. I understand
Trump can do no wrong ever, no matter what he does.
I just I'm saying what he said. No, that's going
to make some of you anger. I'm not supposed to
say it. He didn't mean it or whatever the thing.
(31:58):
But okay, fine, that's fine. We also have learned as
of last night, there is no Epstein list. So Dan
Bongino on his show for years has said there was
an Epstein list. Now he says there's no Epstein list.
I don't think Dan Bongino lied for the last five years.
(32:22):
I don't know what happened to the Epstein list, but
I don't think Cash or Dan Bongino believe that there's
no Epstein list, because if there's no Epstein list, then
why is giland Maxwell in prison in the first place.
And now today we're sending weapons to Ukraine. And again,
I'm not here to question things that obsess people. If
(32:44):
I question things, I'll be primaried. But it does seem
odd particularly when all these people Pam Bondi has now
answered the when she said that they were releasing the
Epstein list, and then they brought all the influencers in
and then oh, they give them the binder of all
the epsteinas all it was all blacked out. I think
(33:08):
they think this thing is going away. My guess is
you've got some powerful people outside the United States driving
this list. And yes, there are people more influential in
the administration than Donald Trump. Unfortunately, when we're saying that
you can be in the country illegally and not be
deported because of the industry you're in farm workers, that
(33:32):
seems to me to be a very odd message. The
President said, there will be some right wing crazies or
right wing I forget what he called right wing wackos
or whatever who won't like it, but they'll get over it. Okay,
Who am I to question? Turns out not all illegal
(33:54):
aliens are bad, just the ones that don't work on farms.
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