October 24, 2025 • 33 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's that time, time, time, time, luck and load.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
The Michael Vari Show is on the air.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Caucasian. Caucasian.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Yeah, you know, a white guy with a mustache, about
six foot.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Three, not very big mustache.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Ahlulia Clarcaus is a serious matter. I'll do it. Myselfty
four years old. I am the son of the Vietnam
War generation. It is probably the most profound, impactful historical
(00:46):
event in American history that gets the least amount of
attention relative to the impact it made on this country now.
It is more recent, of course, than the Revolution or
the Civil War, World War One, or World War Two,
but the profound cultural change it precipitated cannot be measured
(01:16):
yet and will not be measured for decades to come.
Families torn apart, women left without their husbands, children left
without a father. In some cases, children made, father goes
to Vietnam, father does not come home except in a coffin,
and the child never knew their dad, a very, very
(01:38):
troubling scenario. Those who came home from World War Two
were heroes. Those who came home from Vietnam were spat upon.
There's been some argument over the last few years whether
they were spat upon or not. I've had enough tell
me they were that. I believe it, But either way,
it was troubling. Why were we there, Why weren't we
(02:01):
when we left? Why did it take so long? And
how did the other side win, if in fact they did,
what were really the goals? These things bother me. I
wrestle with them, and I wrestle with them because, as
you know, I had a club called the RCC, and
I would get up every night that we had a
(02:21):
big concert, and I would say from the stage, Hey,
we're gonna do three things. You know, kiss your bride,
this is date night. Or number two, make a friend.
Number three. I want all my veterans come down. And
I would call out the veterans of every conflict, including
at that point when we started twenty thirteen, there were
still World War Two veterans Korea. I would skip Vietnam
and I would go to all of the conflicts since,
(02:41):
and then I would do Vietnam last. And I would
see grown men in their seventies, tears streaming down their faces,
and their children my age would come up to me afterwards.
Have never seen my dad cry you hit him, you
punched him in the gut. This was a moment that
he emoted publicly, and he's never done that. So with
that in mind, we do a fair number of I
(03:04):
don't like the word interview, I like the word discussion
on the subject of Vietnam, and today is further to
that point. The author of Flags of Our Fathers has
released a new book about the Vietnam War. It's called
Precious Freedom, a novel, and James Bradley, the author, is
our guest. Welcome to the program, James, Thank you, Michael.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
It's good to be with the czar.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Let's start with why I write this book. What's the purpose?
What do you hope to accomplish?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I tried to figure out what happened. I was thirteen
years old when my brother went off to the Marine
Corps in nineteen sixty seven, so I watched everything on
TV that Walter Cronkite had to tell me, and I
wrote a book, Flags of Our Fathers, about how my
father won with the Marine Corps in World War Two
(03:58):
and then we lost in Vietnam. So my brother's with
the Marines, my father's with the Marines. In one family
and one generation, totally different outcome. So I wrote four
books on the Pacific War, why we got there, Teddy Roosevelt,
Franklin Roosevelt, George Bush, my Houstonian buddy getting shot down.
(04:23):
And then I thought, what about this Vietnam? So I
went to Vietnam. You know, I had four books under
my belt, and I thought, I'll just spend three years
here and have a book done. And it took me
about eleven years to figure out what happened. So the
first reason it took me so long is because I
(04:45):
had to disentangle from all the propaganda that we're still
enmeshed with, even the wording. Even the wording. If you
want me to continue, or you want to, I mean,
I can give you some example.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
James, I should have warned you when I am really
interested in an interview. My New Year's resolution this year
was to stop interrupting people. So I literally turned my
mic off and become a member of the audience. If
I need to interrupt you, I will, but by all
means speak on. I am listening, not waiting to ask
a question, but learning from you. So you go.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Ahead, well, I'll give you some examples of why I
was dumbfounded. You know, this is after reading like two
hundred books on the Vietnam War interviewing Vietnam Vet's I
was immersed in the American narrative. And I go to
Vietnam and I go in a veterans, a Vietnamese veterans house,
(05:41):
and he says, mister Bradley, look at your feet, and
my feet were in my socks on his floor. And
I said, what about him? And he said, this was
a marine base. Your brother thought this was American territory.
He said, there was no north in South Vietnam. He said,
the New York Times drew a line across the country
(06:02):
called it the DMZ. We never thought there was a
north and south. He said. I didn't think I needed
a visa to visit my uncle in another country. I mean, Michael,
I had to go back to my hotel room, like,
oh my god. This is like Canada invades Texas and
(06:22):
draws a line down the middle and says, now, look
at Michael, there's an East Texas in a West Texas.
In East Texas loves Canada and West Texas were the
bad guys. And there's two countries here. Michael, you wouldn't,
I mean, what are you talking about. You're from Canada.
So we went and we imposed, there was no DMZ,
(06:44):
there was no International Boarder because Vietnamese never thought the
North invaded the South. That was all made up gobblygook
from the CIA, Walter Cronkite, Ken Burns and every documentary
you've ever seen. So the v you know, if you
look at a diagram of Vietnam, they say, we say, oh,
(07:05):
we sent your father to South Vietnam to fight North
Vietnam to make South Vietnam free. And the Vietnamese were like,
there's one Vietnam. Hanois the same as Saigon. There's some
traders that are bribed, you know, the guys who ran
South Vietnam, the Vietnamese. These were the guys who fought
(07:26):
for the French against to Chi Minh. So it's like,
you know, Britain loses in the Revolutionary War, and then
Britain stays in like Virginia, let's say, and France comes
in and gives them money, and they keep telling the British,
you know, there's a there's a British America here. We
(07:47):
didn't really lose, and all the traders to the American
cause are getting pumped up with money. There was no
South in North Vietnam. That's one thing another thing. So
it took me about six months of drinking tea for
them to part the veil. I got to talk to
people VC viet Cong, who you know, never talked to foreigners.
(08:11):
It took so long to get into this. Mister Bradley,
you want to meet this famous sniper, And I said, yeah, sure,
So I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
James Bradley, hold right there. I'm up against the break
hold type. The book is called Precious Freedom a Novel.
Will continue with our guest, James Bradley. You've got the
Michael Berry Show. James Bradley is our guest. He's the
author of Flags of Our Fathers. He has a new
book about the Vietnam War. It's called Precious Freedom, a Novel.
(08:39):
I had to interrupt you in the middle. You were
talking about visiting the home of a Vietnamese Vietnam War veteran.
Pick up where you left off if you would please her.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, so you want to meet it a famous sniper. Yeah,
of course, so sniper. You know, I'm thinking of a
lanky guy, you know, stumble. And I walk in and
it's a sixty five year old former principal, a female
and she's sitting there. This is the famous sniper, and
(09:11):
this is what she's the main character in the book.
Her name is May. May said mister Bradley. When I
was fifteen years old, a marine walked into my front yard,
shot my father in the head and killed them. And
I said to myself, I'm going to kill every American
I ever see. So I'm an American in her living
(09:33):
room and I said, well, how did you do? She said,
I killed five Americans. It's easy if you have patients.
So she was fifteen. You know. We asked like, how
do people get radicalized? Why do they hate us? Well,
I'm from Wisconsin. If a Canadian walked into my front
yard shot my dad in the head, I can recognize
(09:56):
that Canadian uniform. I know exactly what those Canadian as
ames look like. I'm fifteen. I'm going to run to
the forest get trained like she did. And she sat
up in a tree and she snipered to death five Marines.
She probably killed twenty to thirty, but she got medals
for five that were witnessed. Now, the number one marine sniper.
(10:21):
There's a book about him, Carlos Halfcocked. He's very very famous. Carlos.
He snipered ninety two to dead. I've got a picture
I'm looking at right now of a beautiful Vietnamese girls.
She's twenty two years old. She killed one hundred and
seventy four Americans. It was their country. They were not
(10:45):
in uniforms. They could be up in trees. I mean,
think of it. When you're fifteen and a foreign army
comes into town. Well, the foreign army's in a bunch,
they're in a group, they're making noise. They come in
armored care and you're fifteen sitting there at barefoot, and
you know all the alleyways. I could run like four
(11:07):
or five blocks across my hometown when I was fifteen
at night, and I knew where every fence was, and
where every open window was, and you know a basement
that was open in somebody's house. And they just energized
all these kids. And what the book is about. My
(11:28):
brother goes to this base called dong Ha. It's a
marine base, well, the Marines, and this is not publicized.
It's hard to find this. They leave in nineteen sixty nine,
not nineteen seventy five. With the helicopters. The Marines are
pushed out. Well, they weren't pushed out by the North
Vietnamese army. They were pushed out by kids, by civilians
(11:52):
with old French rifles. They were being tricked and snipered.
So another story. I'm thirteen watching Walter Cronkite CBS News
and they show me Route nine. Well, what's Route nine.
It cuts across the neck of Vietnam, right below the DMZ,
(12:12):
so it goes from the South China Seed to Laos
and it's the main thoroughfare. And Route nine. I saw it.
I remember, I'm thirteen and there's the news. Here's Route
nine and the Marines are in complete control. I saw
tanks and armored cars, and well, I went out with
the with the tiger of Route nine. Mister Sone, who's
(12:34):
in the book. And I said, mister Sone, I remember
seeing this on TV with marines all over. And he said, yeah,
you didn't see me in the pictures in the film.
I said, what do you mean. He said, We never
fought during the day, he said, mister Bradley, all those
newsreels you saw of Vietnam, he said, those are all
shot during the day. We didn't fight during the day.
(12:56):
We were sleeping during the day, talking to our girl
friends doing medical care, you know, judicial work, getting food
in in these underground cities that we had. And he said,
we came out at night. He said, it's easy to
be successful at night. He said, your brother probably never
(13:16):
swept hardly slept the wink at night because we were,
you know, attacking. So Michael, every day at four pm,
the Marines retreated from Route nine and I'm like, oh
my god, we never controlled Vietnam. We said we controlled Vietnam,
(13:36):
like this area, that area, it's under control. We never
controlled it for a full twenty four hour period. The
Marines had to retreat every single day at four pm
and foxholes or you know, put out the concertina wire
and the mines and all this and prepare for the night.
And that's when the Vietnamese came out. I saw guys
(14:01):
special forces Vietnamese. They were trained to spider walk through
these minefields, you know, like acrobats. They built replicas of
this and they knew how to like spider walk, clip
all the wires and then boom. Their buddies would come
and the Marines would be hunkered down. The guys on
(14:24):
the perimeter might get shot, the guys inside, you know,
jangled nerves, and then when they came out in the morning,
they had to mind sweep the area again. The Marines
couldn't just get up and run out of their of
their sleeping quarters. They had to have mine sweepers. So
you know, I'm like, what, you didn't fight during the day,
(14:47):
he said, No, Ho Chi Minh said, the Americans have
surveillance during the day. Why would we go out during
the day and you guys had an air force. We
didn't have an air force, he said. We were sleeping
during the day, and it's hot as hell during the day,
so we let the Marines go out and sweat and
not find us, and then we came out at night
(15:09):
when it's easy to be successful. So I'll tell you,
mister son takes me to a battle site. Now, if
you listen to Americans, we think in terms of battles.
Rat cat, that cat. You know, thirty guys there and
thirty guys here, and we're fighting like a football game.
You know, thirty here, thirty there, boom boom boom. And
(15:31):
he said, I'll take you out to this battle. So
we go out. Well, the Americans landed with a helicopter
on a river bank and then they had to walk
along a trail on the river and go through a village.
And then the intelligence was was that there was VC
up in the hills after the village. So they walked
(15:54):
through the village and the village has the usual toothless
gramdma on grandpa's and little kids. Well that was the
intelligence net for the vietnamemes. Those grandmas were measured, were
memorizing every single This guy had a handgun, and that
guy was pointing his rifle best way, and the radio
man was in the fourth position, and they were memorizing everything.
(16:17):
So the marines go up into the hills. Well, the
VC they were looking for was hiding behind the village.
And then they came out and interviewed all the grandmas
and grandpa's and they got they got one fat. When
the Marines walked through the village, they walked with their
rifles pointed down.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
James James Bradley is our guest. The book is called
Precious Freedom, a novel. He's the author of Flags of
Our Fathers more on Very Trouble in Vietnam Air Can
You Go? James Bradley is our guest. The book is
called Precious Freedom, a novel. He is the author of
Flags of Our Fathers. Jims, let me ask you a question.
(16:59):
I am a bulver in picking at scabs.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
And.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Whether that is the deaths caused by the COVID virus,
for instance, or the lies about weapons of mass destruction.
And one of the things I find is that one
has to tread lightly. Let's take Vietnam for instance. We
love and respect and honor the people like your brother
(17:26):
who went off to war. Many of them didn't sign
up to go serve. Many of them were drafted. The
most recent the last time that happened in America. So
you really have some folks that are walking the streets
on Monday, and on Tuesday their ping pong ball comes
up and they're sent off to war. They were not
ready for this and certainly didn't want to go, but
(17:48):
they didn't flee. They didn't, you know, take deferments and
do all that. How do you navigate such an honest
conversation where you're doing what I think the scientific method
and good journalism, good investigation requires, and that is asking
tough questions, Because, as I would say, of a number
of our conflicts, it's not the problem of our boys.
(18:09):
It's the problem of our generals and our government putting
people in a bad situation. How do you navigate that
without I don't think you intend to dishonor Vietnam American
Vietnam veterans, So how do you navigate that?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I am trying to help the Vietnam veterans out. I'm
the this is this is here's a sad fact. I'm
the only American author that ever went to Vietnam and
asked the people who won the war, how did you win?
I mean, I caddied for Vince Lombardi of the Green
Bay Packers. Bart starlived three doors down up at bass Lake,
(18:47):
and it was win or lose. And when you lost,
you studied. We looked at the films. How did we lose? Well?
The United States got kicked out of Vietnam, and we
never admitted why and had nothing to do with these
vets that were It had nothing to do with my
brother or your father. It had to do with our leadership.
(19:10):
And this is not me analyzing this. Commandant David Shupe
US Marine Commandant David Shup Medal of Honor winner TARROWA
tarrowa World War Two Medal of Honor. He was giving
speeches all over the United States in the nineteen sixties
saying Ho Chi Minh has a plan to beat us.
(19:33):
They're fighting that night. We can never beat the Vietnamese
because they'll spend twenty years in this war. They have
nowhere to go. And that David Shoop you'll see in
the book, is tirelessly saying LBJ and all these guys
know that we can't win. He said, this is not
James Bradley, this is Commandant Medal of Honor David Shupe
(19:57):
saying this war Vietnam, John is not worth the life
of one American man. We should get out of there immediately.
They're line to you. The leadership, the leadership of America,
including the press, screwed the American veterans. And that's the
(20:18):
purpose of this book. I went and said, how did
you win? And I was shocked that David Shupe and
other guys were technically, strategically, tactically giving speeches about how
we knew we couldn't win. But there were some top guys,
(20:39):
you know. I mean, let's talk about Brown and Root
and Haliburton and Bell Helicopter and Lyndon Johnson getting rich.
You know. Johnson said to the Joint chiefs of Staff
after they offed JFK. At nineteen sixty three Christmas party
in the White House, Johnson's said to the Joint chiefs
(21:01):
of Staff, you give me my election, and I'll give
you your war. They wanted war because it was just going
to last a few months, and it was going to
test out some fancy weapons, and they had no idea
that they were going to toss in the blood of
you know, the guys I went to high school with,
(21:21):
and I'm pissed about it, and somebody should be held
to account. And it's not the veterans. They were put
in an impossible situation and this is not again. You know,
you can say James Bradley, never served, doesn't know what
he's talking about. Maybe I don't, but Commandant David shupe
(21:44):
knew what he was talking about, and he said, this
is a loser before we go in.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, and then I guess our next question is I'm
going to ask a question is going to see like
a stupid question. But I assure you I've spent a
lot of time pondering this, studying this in your heart
of hearts, Why do you think we were really there?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
We were there because to the Vietnam War. You know,
if you look at ken Burns and Walter Cronkite and
all these propaganda things. Kennedy was juggling some hot balls
and then it exploded in Johnson and all of a sudden,
you know, Tonking, No, no, no, no, no, Harry Truman
(22:35):
started the Vietnam War. We sent the equipment that was
out in the Pacific to Vietnam, and in August of
nineteen forty five, before even Japan surrendered all that equipment
out there, Charles Degaull said, we have to reassert France
(22:56):
in Vietnam. And Harry Truman, you know, where's Vietnam. I
don't know anything about Asia. I'm Harry Truman. And DeGaulle said,
there's communists out there and you gotta get him. So
we supported France. Well, who was the head of the
Congressional Committee, the Naval Affairs Committee, that moved that equipment
(23:16):
in nineteen forty five out to Vietnam. It was a
guy called Lyndon Johnson. Lyndon Johnson's Vietnam War began in
August of nineteen forty five, not nineteen sixty four. We
were supplying ninety percent of the French costs of the
Vietnam War. People say, oh, Vietnamization. Let's see Vietnamization. That's
(23:41):
Richard Nixon nineteen seventy No, no, no, no, no. I'm
looking at a photo of Richard Nixon in nineteen fifty
three in Vietnam when the French were losing and they said,
we have this plan called Vietnamization, and Nixon and Eisenauer
said great, We'll give you all the money you need.
And then the French blew it at Den Ben Pew
(24:05):
in nineteen fifty four. We fought the Vietnam War for
thirty years, nineteen forty five to nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Isn't Dan Bin Fou where the French were absolutely routed.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, but that was all I interviewed guys. You'll see
in the book the Vietnamese winners are jumping over crates
at Den Ben Puke, and it says in the USA, Oh,
that was when we were told the French were doing.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
That, right, right, No, no, I give you that. I think
that is consistent. I think that tracks whatever they said
because there was an interest for the United States in
keeping a colonial power in Southeast Asia at that time.
And the French were trying to manage the last remnants
(24:56):
of their empire. They were also having they also had
a lot of trouble uh In in Africa at the
same time. Uh And and our involvement to a limited extent,
not in a little less than Lynn Lee's in World
War Two, but there's no doubt that there was involvement.
James Bradley is our guest. His book is called Precious
Freedom a Novel. He's the author of Flags of Our Fathers.
(25:19):
And we will continue our conversation with him for one
more segment coming Home.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Joey Kung Alma, Michael Bay, Good Show on Baklum.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
James Bradley's our guest. He's the author of Flags of
Our Fathers. He's written a new book about the Vietnam
War called Precious Freedom, a Novel. James, I want to
get into a couple of things that are not as
much in the book, But about the book, I've talked
a little bit about the Vietnam veterans. I have a
number of Vietnam veterans in our listening audience. Have you
(25:54):
have you tested this with Vietnam. I'm just curious how
what the response of Vietnam veterans has been. It's clear
to me your intentions are pure, but I'm just curious
what it's been.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
It's been. They finally know the truth. It's sad to
say I'm the only American author that went to Vietnam
and said, how did you win? The American narrative if
you read two hundred books on Vietnam, it's boy. I
went there and we did all the stuff, and boy,
(26:25):
it was really but they don't get to the bottom line,
you know, but we lost. It didn't work out. So
we were doing all these technically amazing things. The vets
performed well, the soldiers and marines performed like they were trained.
But if you put them in a situation where they
(26:46):
cannot win, and you know that in advance, these guys,
we should burn down the LBJ library. Macnamara should be
dug up. If you read this book and our Vietnam vets,
veterans should be honored. The Vietnam vets who have looked
at this book love it because they finally know. Oliver
(27:09):
Stone says about this book and on the back cover,
he says, if we knew back in the sixties, what
James Bradley has revealed American mothers would have never sent
their sons to Iraq and Afghanistan. This twenty years has
screwn around thirty years in Vietnam, twenty years in Afghanistan.
(27:29):
These are deaths, these are limbs that are lost. And
it's not the fault of the fighting men and women.
It is the fault of our leadership. And that includes
the media. And you'll see it in the book. How
is it possible that a Medal of Honor winner is
giving speeches in America? He said, the Joint Chiefs we
(27:52):
looked at Vietnam and we said, there's absolutely no way
we can win. So what Johnson did is cleaned out
that Joint Chiefs of Staff and got a bunch of
guys who would agree to go in Vietnam. He had
to pump up, you know, those suitcases of cash. And
there's many other reasons.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
The book is precious freedom and novel by the author
of Flags of Our Fathers, James Bradley. You made a
reference in our first segment today and I want to explore.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
You.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
You bundled the Cia kin Burns and Walter Kronkite. I
have a very very healthy skepticism of a lot of
people who are supposed at historians or newsmen. And I
think that the CIA has caused us many problems abroad
and lied to the American people in order to still
be able to get young men to go and fight
their wars. What was your meaning behind ken Burns and
(28:45):
Walter Kronkite? And the suggestion was that not only were
they not perhaps being honest about what was happening in Vietnam,
but that they were reading from a CIA script. I
don't want to put words in your mouth. That's the
sense I got.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Well, CIA script. It's like, if you want to be
in the game, you got to play with these guys.
I mean the ken Burns thing. I was living in
Vietnam when when that documentary came out, and it was
like hot peals of lofts. The American vets watching it
with me in Vietnam. Most of the so called Vietnamese
(29:22):
telling the truth and the ken Burns documentary are CIA connected.
There's a woman whose husband was you know, working you know, Bob.
I mean, it would take twenty minutes to do the
names and the connections. But ken Burns flew in and
out of Vietnam. You know who was in the editing
(29:42):
room with Ken Burns, the John McCain's ghostwriter, Mark Salter. Yeah, Ken,
you can say this. Yeah, Senator McCain approves this and that.
You know, how are you going to get on PBS
public broadcasting system supported by the United States government and
tell the truth about Vietnam? If they told the truth
(30:05):
about Vietnam on PBS, they'd burned down the LBJ library.
This is three to five million Vietnamese dead, fifty eight
thousand Americans on the wall. There's three hundred thousand wounded
Americans wheelchairs, crutches, and the military knew. The top ranks
(30:26):
of the military had all agreed, well, we can't win
this puppy, but we'll just throw the American boys into
the Charnel House here and see what happens.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
It is very troubling to me to think how many
people of my father's generation and now over the last
particularly last twenty five years. You know, I go back
to as late as as the botched Afghanistan would draw
and I think of how many men with the best
(31:01):
of intentions from small towns all across Texas, the South
and the country who when we were attacked on nine
to eleven or when they see the news of America
being attacked, their inner sheep dog comes out, and they
are willing to give no greater love hath any man
than it laid down his life for a friend. They're
(31:22):
willing to give the one thing that they have, which
is their life, for their country. And I think we
should honor that by never taking them up on it
unless it is absolutely necessary. And I see these conflicts
that are started on false premises, and by the way,
I think you can make mistakes. I think we learned
a lot of things in Vietnam that maybe were different
(31:46):
than we expected. But I think you owe a duty
to these young men and their commitment and their sacrifice
to say, all right, let's pull back. When Nixon begins
bombing in Cambodia, because it's a parallel path way without
congressional authority, that is an overstep on a level that
I don't see any way you come back from. You
(32:08):
are the complete imperial presidency at that point, and if
Congress does not rain that in, I don't care Domino
theory or not, Kissinger or whatever or not. That to
me is a very very bad moment.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
There. My dad fought on the Jima. There were colonels
in front of him. There were colonels getting shot, getting
blown up, you know, leading. Come on, boys, they were
right out in front Vietnam. The colonels were in air
conditioned helicopters. You know, you boys, go out there. The
colonels weren't leading. The military changed, Michael, after World War Two.
(32:49):
It's a different military now. There was like one I mean,
look at the general failures we have. Now, there was like,
you know, like twelve generals running the World War two
something like that, five stars, you know, I mean, I'm
getting off on the statistics. But now there's all sorts
(33:12):
of generals and admirals all over I have been to
the bases all over the world. We've got you know,
a thousand bases with burger kings and schools and you know,
paved roads and you know, people taking care of apartment buildings.
We have an empire. When my dad fought, it was
the War Department, and we knew how to do it.
(33:34):
And there were generals getting killed and colonel's getting killed
leading from the front Vietnam. No, they pushed those boys
out there and said you do it.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
That's exactly right. And that was James Bradley. I'm up
against the clock. I appreciate your time, okay. He's the
author of Flags of Our Fathers. His newest book is
Precious Freedom, a novel about the Vietnam War.
It's that time, time, time, time, luck and load.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
The Michael Vari Show is on the air.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Caucasian. Caucasian.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Yeah, you know, a white guy with a mustache, about
six foot.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Three, not very big mustache.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Ahlulia Clarcaus is a serious matter. I'll do it. Myselfty
four years old. I am the son of the Vietnam
War generation. It is probably the most profound, impactful historical
(00:46):
event in American history that gets the least amount of
attention relative to the impact it made on this country now.
It is more recent, of course, than the Revolution or
the Civil War, World War One, or World War Two,
but the profound cultural change it precipitated cannot be measured
(01:16):
yet and will not be measured for decades to come.
Families torn apart, women left without their husbands, children left
without a father. In some cases, children made, father goes
to Vietnam, father does not come home except in a coffin,
and the child never knew their dad, a very, very
(01:38):
troubling scenario. Those who came home from World War Two
were heroes. Those who came home from Vietnam were spat upon.
There's been some argument over the last few years whether
they were spat upon or not. I've had enough tell
me they were that. I believe it, But either way,
it was troubling. Why were we there, Why weren't we
(02:01):
when we left? Why did it take so long? And
how did the other side win, if in fact they did,
what were really the goals? These things bother me. I
wrestle with them, and I wrestle with them because, as
you know, I had a club called the RCC, and
I would get up every night that we had a
(02:21):
big concert, and I would say from the stage, Hey,
we're gonna do three things. You know, kiss your bride,
this is date night. Or number two, make a friend.
Number three. I want all my veterans come down. And
I would call out the veterans of every conflict, including
at that point when we started twenty thirteen, there were
still World War Two veterans Korea. I would skip Vietnam
and I would go to all of the conflicts since,
(02:41):
and then I would do Vietnam last. And I would
see grown men in their seventies, tears streaming down their faces,
and their children my age would come up to me afterwards.
Have never seen my dad cry you hit him, you
punched him in the gut. This was a moment that
he emoted publicly, and he's never done that. So with
that in mind, we do a fair number of I
(03:04):
don't like the word interview, I like the word discussion
on the subject of Vietnam, and today is further to
that point. The author of Flags of Our Fathers has
released a new book about the Vietnam War. It's called
Precious Freedom, a novel, and James Bradley, the author, is
our guest. Welcome to the program, James, Thank you, Michael.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
It's good to be with the czar.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Let's start with why I write this book. What's the purpose?
What do you hope to accomplish?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I tried to figure out what happened. I was thirteen
years old when my brother went off to the Marine
Corps in nineteen sixty seven, so I watched everything on
TV that Walter Cronkite had to tell me, and I
wrote a book, Flags of Our Fathers, about how my
father won with the Marine Corps in World War Two
(03:58):
and then we lost in Vietnam. So my brother's with
the Marines, my father's with the Marines. In one family
and one generation, totally different outcome. So I wrote four
books on the Pacific War, why we got there, Teddy Roosevelt,
Franklin Roosevelt, George Bush, my Houstonian buddy getting shot down.
(04:23):
And then I thought, what about this Vietnam? So I
went to Vietnam. You know, I had four books under
my belt, and I thought, I'll just spend three years
here and have a book done. And it took me
about eleven years to figure out what happened. So the
first reason it took me so long is because I
(04:45):
had to disentangle from all the propaganda that we're still
enmeshed with, even the wording. Even the wording. If you
want me to continue, or you want to, I mean,
I can give you some example.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
James, I should have warned you when I am really
interested in an interview. My New Year's resolution this year
was to stop interrupting people. So I literally turned my
mic off and become a member of the audience. If
I need to interrupt you, I will, but by all
means speak on. I am listening, not waiting to ask
a question, but learning from you. So you go.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Ahead, well, I'll give you some examples of why I
was dumbfounded. You know, this is after reading like two
hundred books on the Vietnam War interviewing Vietnam Vet's I
was immersed in the American narrative. And I go to
Vietnam and I go in a veterans, a Vietnamese veterans house,
(05:41):
and he says, mister Bradley, look at your feet, and
my feet were in my socks on his floor. And
I said, what about him? And he said, this was
a marine base. Your brother thought this was American territory.
He said, there was no north in South Vietnam. He said,
the New York Times drew a line across the country
(06:02):
called it the DMZ. We never thought there was a
north and south. He said. I didn't think I needed
a visa to visit my uncle in another country. I mean, Michael,
I had to go back to my hotel room, like,
oh my god. This is like Canada invades Texas and
(06:22):
draws a line down the middle and says, now, look
at Michael, there's an East Texas in a West Texas.
In East Texas loves Canada and West Texas were the
bad guys. And there's two countries here. Michael, you wouldn't,
I mean, what are you talking about. You're from Canada.
So we went and we imposed, there was no DMZ,
(06:44):
there was no International Boarder because Vietnamese never thought the
North invaded the South. That was all made up gobblygook
from the CIA, Walter Cronkite, Ken Burns and every documentary
you've ever seen. So the v you know, if you
look at a diagram of Vietnam, they say, we say, oh,
(07:05):
we sent your father to South Vietnam to fight North
Vietnam to make South Vietnam free. And the Vietnamese were like,
there's one Vietnam. Hanois the same as Saigon. There's some
traders that are bribed, you know, the guys who ran
South Vietnam, the Vietnamese. These were the guys who fought
(07:26):
for the French against to Chi Minh. So it's like,
you know, Britain loses in the Revolutionary War, and then
Britain stays in like Virginia, let's say, and France comes
in and gives them money, and they keep telling the British,
you know, there's a there's a British America here. We
(07:47):
didn't really lose, and all the traders to the American
cause are getting pumped up with money. There was no
South in North Vietnam. That's one thing another thing. So
it took me about six months of drinking tea for
them to part the veil. I got to talk to
people VC viet Cong, who you know, never talked to foreigners.
(08:11):
It took so long to get into this. Mister Bradley,
you want to meet this famous sniper, And I said, yeah, sure,
So I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
James Bradley, hold right there. I'm up against the break
hold type. The book is called Precious Freedom a Novel.
Will continue with our guest, James Bradley. You've got the
Michael Berry Show. James Bradley is our guest. He's the
author of Flags of Our Fathers. He has a new
book about the Vietnam War. It's called Precious Freedom, a Novel.
(08:39):
I had to interrupt you in the middle. You were
talking about visiting the home of a Vietnamese Vietnam War veteran.
Pick up where you left off if you would please her.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, so you want to meet it a famous sniper. Yeah,
of course, so sniper. You know, I'm thinking of a
lanky guy, you know, stumble. And I walk in and
it's a sixty five year old former principal, a female
and she's sitting there. This is the famous sniper, and
(09:11):
this is what she's the main character in the book.
Her name is May. May said mister Bradley. When I
was fifteen years old, a marine walked into my front yard,
shot my father in the head and killed them. And
I said to myself, I'm going to kill every American
I ever see. So I'm an American in her living
(09:33):
room and I said, well, how did you do? She said,
I killed five Americans. It's easy if you have patients.
So she was fifteen. You know. We asked like, how
do people get radicalized? Why do they hate us? Well,
I'm from Wisconsin. If a Canadian walked into my front
yard shot my dad in the head, I can recognize
(09:56):
that Canadian uniform. I know exactly what those Canadian as
ames look like. I'm fifteen. I'm going to run to
the forest get trained like she did. And she sat
up in a tree and she snipered to death five Marines.
She probably killed twenty to thirty, but she got medals
for five that were witnessed. Now, the number one marine sniper.
(10:21):
There's a book about him, Carlos Halfcocked. He's very very famous. Carlos.
He snipered ninety two to dead. I've got a picture
I'm looking at right now of a beautiful Vietnamese girls.
She's twenty two years old. She killed one hundred and
seventy four Americans. It was their country. They were not
(10:45):
in uniforms. They could be up in trees. I mean,
think of it. When you're fifteen and a foreign army
comes into town. Well, the foreign army's in a bunch,
they're in a group, they're making noise. They come in
armored care and you're fifteen sitting there at barefoot, and
you know all the alleyways. I could run like four
(11:07):
or five blocks across my hometown when I was fifteen
at night, and I knew where every fence was, and
where every open window was, and you know a basement
that was open in somebody's house. And they just energized
all these kids. And what the book is about. My
(11:28):
brother goes to this base called dong Ha. It's a
marine base, well, the Marines, and this is not publicized.
It's hard to find this. They leave in nineteen sixty nine,
not nineteen seventy five. With the helicopters. The Marines are
pushed out. Well, they weren't pushed out by the North
Vietnamese army. They were pushed out by kids, by civilians
(11:52):
with old French rifles. They were being tricked and snipered.
So another story. I'm thirteen watching Walter Cronkite CBS News
and they show me Route nine. Well, what's Route nine.
It cuts across the neck of Vietnam, right below the DMZ,
(12:12):
so it goes from the South China Seed to Laos
and it's the main thoroughfare. And Route nine. I saw it.
I remember, I'm thirteen and there's the news. Here's Route
nine and the Marines are in complete control. I saw
tanks and armored cars, and well, I went out with
the with the tiger of Route nine. Mister Sone, who's
(12:34):
in the book. And I said, mister Sone, I remember
seeing this on TV with marines all over. And he said, yeah,
you didn't see me in the pictures in the film.
I said, what do you mean. He said, We never
fought during the day, he said, mister Bradley, all those
newsreels you saw of Vietnam, he said, those are all
shot during the day. We didn't fight during the day.
(12:56):
We were sleeping during the day, talking to our girl
friends doing medical care, you know, judicial work, getting food
in in these underground cities that we had. And he said,
we came out at night. He said, it's easy to
be successful at night. He said, your brother probably never
(13:16):
swept hardly slept the wink at night because we were,
you know, attacking. So Michael, every day at four pm,
the Marines retreated from Route nine and I'm like, oh
my god, we never controlled Vietnam. We said we controlled Vietnam,
(13:36):
like this area, that area, it's under control. We never
controlled it for a full twenty four hour period. The
Marines had to retreat every single day at four pm
and foxholes or you know, put out the concertina wire
and the mines and all this and prepare for the night.
And that's when the Vietnamese came out. I saw guys
(14:01):
special forces Vietnamese. They were trained to spider walk through
these minefields, you know, like acrobats. They built replicas of
this and they knew how to like spider walk, clip
all the wires and then boom. Their buddies would come
and the Marines would be hunkered down. The guys on
(14:24):
the perimeter might get shot, the guys inside, you know,
jangled nerves, and then when they came out in the morning,
they had to mind sweep the area again. The Marines
couldn't just get up and run out of their of
their sleeping quarters. They had to have mine sweepers. So
you know, I'm like, what, you didn't fight during the day,
(14:47):
he said, No, Ho Chi Minh said, the Americans have
surveillance during the day. Why would we go out during
the day and you guys had an air force. We
didn't have an air force, he said. We were sleeping
during the day, and it's hot as hell during the day,
so we let the Marines go out and sweat and
not find us, and then we came out at night
(15:09):
when it's easy to be successful. So I'll tell you,
mister son takes me to a battle site. Now, if
you listen to Americans, we think in terms of battles.
Rat cat, that cat. You know, thirty guys there and
thirty guys here, and we're fighting like a football game.
You know, thirty here, thirty there, boom boom boom. And
(15:31):
he said, I'll take you out to this battle. So
we go out. Well, the Americans landed with a helicopter
on a river bank and then they had to walk
along a trail on the river and go through a village.
And then the intelligence was was that there was VC
up in the hills after the village. So they walked
(15:54):
through the village and the village has the usual toothless
gramdma on grandpa's and little kids. Well that was the
intelligence net for the vietnamemes. Those grandmas were measured, were
memorizing every single This guy had a handgun, and that
guy was pointing his rifle best way, and the radio
man was in the fourth position, and they were memorizing everything.
(16:17):
So the marines go up into the hills. Well, the
VC they were looking for was hiding behind the village.
And then they came out and interviewed all the grandmas
and grandpa's and they got they got one fat. When
the Marines walked through the village, they walked with their
rifles pointed down.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
James James Bradley is our guest. The book is called
Precious Freedom, a novel. He's the author of Flags of
Our Fathers more on Very Trouble in Vietnam Air Can
You Go? James Bradley is our guest. The book is
called Precious Freedom, a novel. He is the author of
Flags of Our Fathers. Jims, let me ask you a question.
(16:59):
I am a bulver in picking at scabs.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
And.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Whether that is the deaths caused by the COVID virus,
for instance, or the lies about weapons of mass destruction.
And one of the things I find is that one
has to tread lightly. Let's take Vietnam for instance. We
love and respect and honor the people like your brother
(17:26):
who went off to war. Many of them didn't sign
up to go serve. Many of them were drafted. The
most recent the last time that happened in America. So
you really have some folks that are walking the streets
on Monday, and on Tuesday their ping pong ball comes
up and they're sent off to war. They were not
ready for this and certainly didn't want to go, but
(17:48):
they didn't flee. They didn't, you know, take deferments and
do all that. How do you navigate such an honest
conversation where you're doing what I think the scientific method
and good journalism, good investigation requires, and that is asking
tough questions, Because, as I would say, of a number
of our conflicts, it's not the problem of our boys.
(18:09):
It's the problem of our generals and our government putting
people in a bad situation. How do you navigate that
without I don't think you intend to dishonor Vietnam American
Vietnam veterans, So how do you navigate that?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I am trying to help the Vietnam veterans out. I'm
the this is this is here's a sad fact. I'm
the only American author that ever went to Vietnam and
asked the people who won the war, how did you win?
I mean, I caddied for Vince Lombardi of the Green
Bay Packers. Bart starlived three doors down up at bass Lake,
(18:47):
and it was win or lose. And when you lost,
you studied. We looked at the films. How did we lose? Well?
The United States got kicked out of Vietnam, and we
never admitted why and had nothing to do with these
vets that were It had nothing to do with my
brother or your father. It had to do with our leadership.
(19:10):
And this is not me analyzing this. Commandant David Shupe
US Marine Commandant David Shup Medal of Honor winner TARROWA
tarrowa World War Two Medal of Honor. He was giving
speeches all over the United States in the nineteen sixties
saying Ho Chi Minh has a plan to beat us.
(19:33):
They're fighting that night. We can never beat the Vietnamese
because they'll spend twenty years in this war. They have
nowhere to go. And that David Shoop you'll see in
the book, is tirelessly saying LBJ and all these guys
know that we can't win. He said, this is not
James Bradley, this is Commandant Medal of Honor David Shupe
(19:57):
saying this war Vietnam, John is not worth the life
of one American man. We should get out of there immediately.
They're line to you. The leadership, the leadership of America,
including the press, screwed the American veterans. And that's the
(20:18):
purpose of this book. I went and said, how did
you win? And I was shocked that David Shupe and
other guys were technically, strategically, tactically giving speeches about how
we knew we couldn't win. But there were some top guys,
(20:39):
you know. I mean, let's talk about Brown and Root
and Haliburton and Bell Helicopter and Lyndon Johnson getting rich.
You know. Johnson said to the Joint chiefs of Staff
after they offed JFK. At nineteen sixty three Christmas party
in the White House, Johnson's said to the Joint chiefs
(21:01):
of Staff, you give me my election, and I'll give
you your war. They wanted war because it was just going
to last a few months, and it was going to
test out some fancy weapons, and they had no idea
that they were going to toss in the blood of
you know, the guys I went to high school with,
(21:21):
and I'm pissed about it, and somebody should be held
to account. And it's not the veterans. They were put
in an impossible situation and this is not again. You know,
you can say James Bradley, never served, doesn't know what
he's talking about. Maybe I don't, but Commandant David shupe
(21:44):
knew what he was talking about, and he said, this
is a loser before we go in.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, and then I guess our next question is I'm
going to ask a question is going to see like
a stupid question. But I assure you I've spent a
lot of time pondering this, studying this in your heart
of hearts, Why do you think we were really there?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
We were there because to the Vietnam War. You know,
if you look at ken Burns and Walter Cronkite and
all these propaganda things. Kennedy was juggling some hot balls
and then it exploded in Johnson and all of a sudden,
you know, Tonking, No, no, no, no, no, Harry Truman
(22:35):
started the Vietnam War. We sent the equipment that was
out in the Pacific to Vietnam, and in August of
nineteen forty five, before even Japan surrendered all that equipment
out there, Charles Degaull said, we have to reassert France
(22:56):
in Vietnam. And Harry Truman, you know, where's Vietnam. I
don't know anything about Asia. I'm Harry Truman. And DeGaulle said,
there's communists out there and you gotta get him. So
we supported France. Well, who was the head of the
Congressional Committee, the Naval Affairs Committee, that moved that equipment
(23:16):
in nineteen forty five out to Vietnam. It was a
guy called Lyndon Johnson. Lyndon Johnson's Vietnam War began in
August of nineteen forty five, not nineteen sixty four. We
were supplying ninety percent of the French costs of the
Vietnam War. People say, oh, Vietnamization. Let's see Vietnamization. That's
(23:41):
Richard Nixon nineteen seventy No, no, no, no, no. I'm
looking at a photo of Richard Nixon in nineteen fifty
three in Vietnam when the French were losing and they said,
we have this plan called Vietnamization, and Nixon and Eisenauer
said great, We'll give you all the money you need.
And then the French blew it at Den Ben Pew
(24:05):
in nineteen fifty four. We fought the Vietnam War for
thirty years, nineteen forty five to nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Isn't Dan Bin Fou where the French were absolutely routed.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, but that was all I interviewed guys. You'll see
in the book the Vietnamese winners are jumping over crates
at Den Ben Puke, and it says in the USA, Oh,
that was when we were told the French were doing.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
That, right, right, No, no, I give you that. I think
that is consistent. I think that tracks whatever they said
because there was an interest for the United States in
keeping a colonial power in Southeast Asia at that time.
And the French were trying to manage the last remnants
(24:56):
of their empire. They were also having they also had
a lot of trouble uh In in Africa at the
same time. Uh And and our involvement to a limited extent,
not in a little less than Lynn Lee's in World
War Two, but there's no doubt that there was involvement.
James Bradley is our guest. His book is called Precious
Freedom a Novel. He's the author of Flags of Our Fathers.
(25:19):
And we will continue our conversation with him for one
more segment coming Home.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Joey Kung Alma, Michael Bay, Good Show on Baklum.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
James Bradley's our guest. He's the author of Flags of
Our Fathers. He's written a new book about the Vietnam
War called Precious Freedom, a Novel. James, I want to
get into a couple of things that are not as
much in the book, But about the book, I've talked
a little bit about the Vietnam veterans. I have a
number of Vietnam veterans in our listening audience. Have you
(25:54):
have you tested this with Vietnam. I'm just curious how
what the response of Vietnam veterans has been. It's clear
to me your intentions are pure, but I'm just curious
what it's been.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
It's been. They finally know the truth. It's sad to
say I'm the only American author that went to Vietnam
and said, how did you win? The American narrative if
you read two hundred books on Vietnam, it's boy. I
went there and we did all the stuff, and boy,
(26:25):
it was really but they don't get to the bottom line,
you know, but we lost. It didn't work out. So
we were doing all these technically amazing things. The vets
performed well, the soldiers and marines performed like they were trained.
But if you put them in a situation where they
(26:46):
cannot win, and you know that in advance, these guys,
we should burn down the LBJ library. Macnamara should be
dug up. If you read this book and our Vietnam vets,
veterans should be honored. The Vietnam vets who have looked
at this book love it because they finally know. Oliver
(27:09):
Stone says about this book and on the back cover,
he says, if we knew back in the sixties, what
James Bradley has revealed American mothers would have never sent
their sons to Iraq and Afghanistan. This twenty years has
screwn around thirty years in Vietnam, twenty years in Afghanistan.
(27:29):
These are deaths, these are limbs that are lost. And
it's not the fault of the fighting men and women.
It is the fault of our leadership. And that includes
the media. And you'll see it in the book. How
is it possible that a Medal of Honor winner is
giving speeches in America? He said, the Joint Chiefs we
(27:52):
looked at Vietnam and we said, there's absolutely no way
we can win. So what Johnson did is cleaned out
that Joint Chiefs of Staff and got a bunch of
guys who would agree to go in Vietnam. He had
to pump up, you know, those suitcases of cash. And
there's many other reasons.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
The book is precious freedom and novel by the author
of Flags of Our Fathers, James Bradley. You made a
reference in our first segment today and I want to explore.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
You.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
You bundled the Cia kin Burns and Walter Kronkite. I
have a very very healthy skepticism of a lot of
people who are supposed at historians or newsmen. And I
think that the CIA has caused us many problems abroad
and lied to the American people in order to still
be able to get young men to go and fight
their wars. What was your meaning behind ken Burns and
(28:45):
Walter Kronkite? And the suggestion was that not only were
they not perhaps being honest about what was happening in Vietnam,
but that they were reading from a CIA script. I
don't want to put words in your mouth. That's the
sense I got.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Well, CIA script. It's like, if you want to be
in the game, you got to play with these guys.
I mean the ken Burns thing. I was living in
Vietnam when when that documentary came out, and it was
like hot peals of lofts. The American vets watching it
with me in Vietnam. Most of the so called Vietnamese
(29:22):
telling the truth and the ken Burns documentary are CIA connected.
There's a woman whose husband was you know, working you know, Bob.
I mean, it would take twenty minutes to do the
names and the connections. But ken Burns flew in and
out of Vietnam. You know who was in the editing
(29:42):
room with Ken Burns, the John McCain's ghostwriter, Mark Salter. Yeah, Ken,
you can say this. Yeah, Senator McCain approves this and that.
You know, how are you going to get on PBS
public broadcasting system supported by the United States government and
tell the truth about Vietnam? If they told the truth
(30:05):
about Vietnam on PBS, they'd burned down the LBJ library.
This is three to five million Vietnamese dead, fifty eight
thousand Americans on the wall. There's three hundred thousand wounded
Americans wheelchairs, crutches, and the military knew. The top ranks
(30:26):
of the military had all agreed, well, we can't win
this puppy, but we'll just throw the American boys into
the Charnel House here and see what happens.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
It is very troubling to me to think how many
people of my father's generation and now over the last
particularly last twenty five years. You know, I go back
to as late as as the botched Afghanistan would draw
and I think of how many men with the best
(31:01):
of intentions from small towns all across Texas, the South
and the country who when we were attacked on nine
to eleven or when they see the news of America
being attacked, their inner sheep dog comes out, and they
are willing to give no greater love hath any man
than it laid down his life for a friend. They're
(31:22):
willing to give the one thing that they have, which
is their life, for their country. And I think we
should honor that by never taking them up on it
unless it is absolutely necessary. And I see these conflicts
that are started on false premises, and by the way,
I think you can make mistakes. I think we learned
a lot of things in Vietnam that maybe were different
(31:46):
than we expected. But I think you owe a duty
to these young men and their commitment and their sacrifice
to say, all right, let's pull back. When Nixon begins
bombing in Cambodia, because it's a parallel path way without
congressional authority, that is an overstep on a level that
I don't see any way you come back from. You
(32:08):
are the complete imperial presidency at that point, and if
Congress does not rain that in, I don't care Domino
theory or not, Kissinger or whatever or not. That to
me is a very very bad moment.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
There. My dad fought on the Jima. There were colonels
in front of him. There were colonels getting shot, getting
blown up, you know, leading. Come on, boys, they were
right out in front Vietnam. The colonels were in air
conditioned helicopters. You know, you boys, go out there. The
colonels weren't leading. The military changed, Michael, after World War Two.
(32:49):
It's a different military now. There was like one I mean,
look at the general failures we have. Now, there was like,
you know, like twelve generals running the World War two
something like that, five stars, you know, I mean, I'm
getting off on the statistics. But now there's all sorts
(33:12):
of generals and admirals all over I have been to
the bases all over the world. We've got you know,
a thousand bases with burger kings and schools and you know,
paved roads and you know, people taking care of apartment buildings.
We have an empire. When my dad fought, it was
the War Department, and we knew how to do it.
(33:34):
And there were generals getting killed and colonel's getting killed
leading from the front Vietnam. No, they pushed those boys
out there and said you do it.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
That's exactly right. And that was James Bradley. I'm up
against the clock. I appreciate your time, okay. He's the
author of Flags of Our Fathers. His newest book is
Precious Freedom, a novel about the Vietnam War.
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