April 14, 2025 • 32 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's that time, time, time, time, luck and load.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
So Michael Verie Show is on the air. Interesting things
happening in Poland.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
They have a presidential election in a month, and we're
seeing European countries.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Who are at an inflection point.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Either they take back their country in a nationalist populist
movement the way we have in this country, or it
will be so far gone that it will be impossible
to get it back. Last night, the Conservative candidate for
president walked across the debate stage beginning of the debate.
(01:03):
It looked very similar to a debate here presidential debate,
same set up, just the white on top of the
red under the bottom of the colors of the Polish flag.
He walks across, He puts the Polish flag on his lectern,
(01:23):
and he takes the rainbow flag and walks it over
to his opponent and says, here, here is your flag,
making the point that you are not serving the people
of Poland, you are serving the politics of progressivism. You're
(01:43):
seeing this in Germany, you're seeing it in the UK.
The Irish Prime Minister was walking on a street in
Dublin over the weekend and a crowd of people random
lee as he came out of a back alley started
screaming at him that Muslims are killing our children, They're
(02:08):
overrunning our country.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
This is horrible and.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I'm not for accosting people in public, but nobody got
up in his space. They simply booed him the way
you booed Tim Walls when you see it. For so long,
people were afraid to speak out in defense of nationalism
for a number of different reasons. Progressives are very effective
(02:36):
at using shame and guilt and actual clubbings.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
They get people.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Fired, but they're very rarely the one doing the firing.
They're getting someone to fire us. If I can't tell
you how many people over the years have done the
wrong thing by giving in to the progressive mob, knowing
it was the wrong thing. But what they want to
do is keep the heat off of themselves, kick the
can down the street. And if that continues in Europe.
(03:10):
So we went to Japan at Christmas, and the folks
there were telling me that Japan has had an absolute
boom of tourism. And when you drill down, you find
out that the thing that they hear from people is
we used to go to Europe. Now we come here,
(03:31):
or they're coming for the first time and it's prohibitively distant.
It's a brutal flight. I was surprised I posted about
being there, and I was surprised how many of our
listeners email me that they go to Japan more than
once a year. There were people who go every other week.
(03:52):
I my wife just got back from India and for
ten days she was jetlaged. For ten days, she was
not herself trying to get back on the system. Today's
her birthday, so she's fifty seven today. There is no
doubt that adjusting to jet lag at fifty seven is
(04:14):
much harder than it was when we were in our twenties.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
There's a lot of things like that.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Hangovers, workouts, a long wall, I mean, there's a lot
of things fit into that. Your body doesn't respond the
way it used to. But the reason people are going
to Japan is that the crime rate is so insanely low,
insanely low in addition to cleanliness. And part of the
(04:41):
reason is Japan does not feel guilt at how poor
and broken and violent and inbred some other countries are,
and they don't feel the need to bring those problems
to their country. But England does, Denmark does, Ireland does,
(05:04):
Germany does, France does. And if you haven't been to
Europe in the last few years, and you ever went before,
you're going to be shocked.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
That that is an overused word.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Not in this case. You're going to be gobsmacked. You're
going to want to leave. You walk to Chacelyse tomorrow
and you are not in Paris any longer. You are
in a different country with different behaviors. It is the
(05:44):
charm of London is lost to me now, and it
only gets worse. It only gets worse because you brought
in in these two cases, you brought in Middle Eastern
cultures where you've brought in so many people in such
a short period of time that there's no assimilation. So
(06:08):
the dominant home culture, which would normally kind of enforce itself,
is lost. So now you're basically just relocating broken countries
in London and Paris and Berlin and now Dublin, and
that doesn't work. It doesn't work here. You look at
(06:31):
Mogod issue in Minnesota used to be Minneapolis. There are
parts of Mogod issue that are more Somalia than they
are the United States. And all the problems you had
in Somalia are brought here.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Now.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Nobody wants to say that because we don't want to
believe people are different.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Okay. Can we agree that people speak different languages? Okay,
all right, we can let's start there. All right, We've
we've found common ground.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
All right, So we can agree that people from this
region speak a different language and people from Kentucky. Okay,
we're gonnagree with people from Louisiana speak different than people
from miss Yes, we can agree with that.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Can we agree that people may have different religious practices?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Okay, but I'm feeling uncomfortable.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Can we agree let's make a leap that won't be
as offensive but is undeniably true. Can we agree that
different cultures have different views on how women are to
be treated in public? For instance, whether women can go
out in public without their head covered, whether women can drive,
(07:47):
whether women can hold positions, can can work, whether men
can cat call women. These are social It's very hard
to write laws for these sorts of things. But culture
is maintained very loosely, but definitely by these sorts of
(08:12):
by the dominant culture said no, no, we don't do that,
So people would come to this country or Europe, and
they'd say, oh, when I'm here, I have to act
this way.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
They don't have to do that again. If you're listening
to Michael Berryscouse Lifeless Black Eyes like a dousand.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
January twenty seventeen, President Trump has, in the most improbable
win in the modern era, won the White House and
he's going in and the battle really begins now because
half the people there can't be trusted. Half the people
there are working against him. It has taken all these
(08:53):
years to really find out what was going on, but
there were some loyal folks who were in the trenches
with him, and I think back now, you know, this
has been a really soaring administration because President Trump learned
you can't trust those people you got and he's gone
in with all the momentum. Right, It wasn't like that
(09:14):
back in January twenty seventeen. One of the guys, probably
the guy who was getting beat up the worst, through
no fault of his own. He was just taking the
beating and getting back up with Sean Spicer, the Press
Secretary and Communications director, and he's our guest.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Welcome to the programs.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Huh hi, Michael Good be with you. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
You got to be thinking, as you see Carolyn Levitt
up there, going, hey, I didn't have it this easy.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Well, you know, it's funny when you say that. I
had a conversation with the President a couple of weeks back,
and he was asking me. He said, you know, this
is just how he operates. He always says, how do
you think it's going, how's everyone doing? And I said
to him, sir, I'm a little jealous. He started laughing
and he said, why do you see that. I said,
because you know, we came in He was very magnanimous,
and he said, oh, that's nice in that, and I said, well,
(10:02):
it's true. I think we we went in for, you know,
with all the best intentions, and to your point in
your introduction, there were some people that didn't share that,
and they thought that they either were there to serve
their own agenda or to resist his. And I think
a lot of it was new and I've said to
folks before, you know. Part of the thing for me
(10:23):
was I I actually had this very fun conversation with
him at one point, and we're talking about traditions and
how the White House operates. That he looks at me
and he said, Sean, I'm going to be the most
traditional president ever. And I was like, oh, cool, I
know tradition. I can I that guy got this that
and and that clearly wasn't the case. And and you know,
he beats to his own drum and he has his
(10:45):
own style in his way, and and it's just it
was it was a learning experience for a lot of us.
And and like I said, so I I was so
super proud to have been part of that. And uh,
but but it's different. And here's the thing, Michael. I've
identified three things, the people, the process, and the policies.
(11:06):
And you touched on this at the beginning at the
beginning of your segment. And what I mean by the
people is, let's have he ex trusted a lot of
people that they said, oh I want to serve in
the Trump administration where they were recommended by somebody, and
so he took their workforce and they weren't people that
were there for the right necessarily intentions. This time, the
people that he's front on board, he knows, he trusts,
they understand the goal at hand, and that's a very
(11:28):
different dynamic. Okay, So that's number one. Then we go
to the policies. He knows exactly what he wants to
do and how to do it. He knows what he
wants to fight for, what he wants to accomplish. And
the last is the process, which is he knows how
to do it now not only the levers of government
to pull, but where the resistance is going to come from. Okay,
and that is important because he sort of if you
(11:51):
think about it, day one, Tom Holme is doing all
of these immigration roundups. He knew what cities to go to,
where to find them. They didn't just think of this
out of thin air. It wasn't just you know, maybe
we should go to Boston, maybe we should go to Chicago.
They knew where to go because they had been spending
four years plotting and planning exactly what they would do
if they got back in office.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And you see it.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
It is a well executed strategy, brilliant in its in
its plan and flawless in the execution. I also think
that he brought in you were a guy that was
willing to withstand slings and arrows. I think there were
some folks who weren't. They were a little more retiring,
a little more reticent, a little more reserved. Mike Pence
(12:32):
was not really you know, a battle weary partner for him.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
He's got guys that really.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Enjoy going into into the fire, you know, jd Vance
and Pete Hegseeth and Toolsey and in each one of
them ready to take on the battle. And I feel
like that allows him, you know, like like a leader,
a president with his generals. It allows him to dissipate
some of that, to spread some of that. Elon takes
(13:01):
a lot of that hatred. And I think that I'd
be curious to know your thoughts, but I think that
has helped him a lot as well.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Look at the thing that the media gets wrong Michael
is They keep saying, oh, he's surprouted himself with loyalists.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
A dog can be loyal.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
That's not nothing that these people are disruptors. These are
people who understand the agenda and what the president wants
to accomplish and are like, great, I got it. So
whether Paulsey, RFK or Pete hegseth uh, you know Lee
Delvin at the EPA, these guys are coming in and saying, Okay,
we got it, we got the mission, We're ready to execute.
And frankly you're seeing the results. I mentioned Tom Holman,
(13:38):
another guy who's going in there to do this. But
there's one thing that I keep warning Republicans on, which is,
guys that we've now seen. You know, Trump got elected,
he made a lot of great things happen. He helped
secure the border, get US energy independent, and what's Biden
to Biden undoes all of that through executive order. And
then what is Trump do? He undoes the Biden and
(13:59):
reinstitutes a lot of stuff, then builds on it. And
my message to Republicans, especially in the area of immigration,
is if you like what President Trump is doing, then
we need to codify law. Because if you look at
where President Trump has gotten pushback, it's not this resistance
that we had in the first term.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
It's the courts.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
And what are the courts saying. They're saying, well, the
law is clear that X or not clear that why.
And so my point to my fellow Republicans is, if
you like what President Trump did, if you like what
he accomplished, then don't let another president do it. Codify
immigration stuff in law. Figure out how many visiness we want,
how many judges, how many CBP or ice agents we
(14:40):
want set new limits on making us more of a meritocracy.
So we figure out what kind of immigration system we want.
But we keep fudging along and hoping that President Trump's
going to stay in office forever. It's just not you know,
as much as we may want that to happen, it's
not going to happen while we have majority. And this
is the other point that I try to make to
(15:01):
Republicans is I would love to believe that we're just
going to get judged by, you know, putting points on
the board and delivering for the American people. But we've
seen what it takes to get legislation passed, and God forbid,
we lose the House Republican majority, which is you know,
tenuous at best. We got two more seats last week
(15:23):
because that's somehow everybody felt like, oh that was great,
and I'm like, that's just two more down to We're
up to a four seat majority. Yay. But if you
really want to ensure that things are going to happen,
then use these next eighteen plus months to actually codify
the Trump agenda, especially in immigration in law.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
I agree the long term reforms, I think, and that's
how you bring real change instead of an overnight win.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
That's the war, not the battle thing.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
We'll continue our conversation with Sean Spicer, former Press secretary
and communications direct in the first trumpets, I don't care
if somebody this restakes you, you can shoots. John Spicer
was Press secretary and communications director under President Trump in
(16:19):
the early days, the tough days, the time when UH
general's loyal to the president were being entrapped by the FBI,
at a time when Jim Comey was working very hard
to try to put Donald Trump in prison, at a
time when the security in deep state apparatus was working
(16:39):
against the president and doing things that are unspeakable. He
has some memories, shall we say, he's our guests. Let's
talk about the border. Obviously, something that y'all worked on
very hard. I have been, I must admit, I have
been delighted and at the same time surprised at the
(17:00):
the effectiveness and the swiftness with which this thing has
happened and how successful it has been.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Your thoughts, Yeah, I mean there's two things.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Just one.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
It proved to me that if you focus on something anything,
it's not necessarily easy, but you can get results. Right. So,
I mean, whether you trying to get in shape or
sell something or in this.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Case secure of the border.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
What happened under Biden is they allow they made the
border open. People came in. They gave incentives to people
to come. I tell this story all the time. I
got a buddy of mine that does a lot of
federal contracting with the State Department. And in the Trump
first term, they had assigned throughout America that said, you
know the borders, clothes, don't come. When Biden came into office,
they changed the billboards and it said need help, here's
the phone number. Right. They literally it was a magnet
(17:50):
to come into this country. Kamala Harris might have told
people don't, but the reality is that if you're told,
if you do, though, we're gonna give you a hotel room,
a gift card, free phones, etc. You're gonna come. They
understood they wouldn't get kicked out, they wouldn't be stopped,
and so they came. President Trump changed that in a heartbeat,
and you know, Tom Holman and everyone's rounding people up,
making it clear that this is a priority of this president.
(18:13):
But you know, it just showed you how much we
were gas lit by the Biden administration, right, who told us, oh,
we can't do anything, there's nothing wrong, there's no criminals here. Well,
if there were no criminals here, how did President Trump
just round up all those Trendady Dagua people and the
NS thirteen gangbaggers, Because you know, under the Biden administration,
they told us our border was secure, nothing was wrong,
(18:34):
and it was clearly a lie.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
It's it's quite interesting. Sean Spicer is our guess. He
was the first Press secretary of Communications director for President Trump.
Let me pull back for our moment on Trump. Let's
talk about Sean Spiccer. How has life changed for you?
What does what does life look like for you today?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
That's a great question.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
So when I walked into the White House, I'd been
the community cation structor and the chief strategies for the
Republican National Committee for six years. I've been around Washington
working for members of Congress. I'd just come actually off
on active duty deployment. Uh so, I you know, I
was just your typical staffer and then walked in the
Trump White House and got thrown, you know, into the
(19:17):
deep end real quick. And it was a challenging yet
honorific opportunity to serve the country and to President Trump
and then look, it was funny afterwards I did stuff
that I mean, I have had some pretty cool moments
since I left the White House. I still stay in
touch with President Trump. As I mentioned, I talked to
one in the Fund the other day. He appointed me
to the Naval Academy Board of Visitors. You know, I've
(19:39):
got two shows. The Shawn Spicer Show, airs every night
six pm Eastern on YouTube. So I'm doing stuff, Michael,
for the first time. I was always somebody else's spokesman,
and now I get to talk about what I think
and why I think things need to get downe on
what the priorities. I've written four books, you know, I
may announce a fifth one soon. It's been fun to
do something when you when you're My whole life professionally
(20:01):
was focused on you know, even in the military as
a public affairs officer, right, and I've always spoken for
other people and entities, and when you leave and get
the opportunity to, you know, launch shows. I have a
show every morning, a live show on my YouTube channel
called The Morning Meeting, where we talk about the issues
of the day. And it's fun to be able to
give people my opinion, my thought, my insights from thirty
(20:22):
years of politics, and that's a very different place than
I've ever been.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
But I got to imagine with all of that and
enjoying a little more, you know, taking an extra thirty
minutes onto your cup of coffee, or making one more
lap on your morning walk if you so choose, or
sleeping in on occasion if you want. I gotta imagine
for guys like you, having been in it myself, you
have to miss the adrenaline. It's a drug, and I
(20:49):
know there are days that you are missing that and
wishing you were in there in the battle.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
You know, what's the funny thing about you saying that? One?
I used to when I left Capitol Hill and went
to different places, I would always say I always I
think that I found it like, I don't know if
it's because I have kids now they're teenagers. It's like,
I think my priorities are a little bit different, having
to want to spend time. And I know it's always
like this cliche Washington thing. I love it, don't get
(21:17):
me wrong. I will never I'm so honored that President
Trump had me serves as the White House pres Secretary
but now when I get to do stuff like I
wake up, Like I said, I have the show every
morning it's live for an hour on YouTube where I
walk through with Mark Alper and a guy named Dan
Turntine that we call it the Morning Meeting. It's very
(21:38):
it's just continues to grow in popularity. Then I do
my show that airs at six o'clock on YouTube, And
like I said, I do a lot of writing. I
write commps, so I don't It's almost like I've kind
of pivoted my my love for politics into into different ways.
So now I can actually openly opine about what I
like to do and what I like to say. And
so I'm fired up. I get your point. Like I
(22:01):
if ten it was a ten year Yeah, ten years ago,
I wouldn't know what to do. I used to work
crazy hours at the RNC, and I have people tell
me all the time, you know, wow, you work crazy
hours and how do you ever find time? And it's
because I love it. I love politics, I love the
back and forth. I love you know that no day
is ever the same. That I had a great team
to work with. I mean, but there's something about like
(22:23):
the last few years where I've enjoyed, like getting to
do things like I've had the I've had the I
was on a reality shows you might recall the stars.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I did a back movie.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
There's stuff that is a kid from Rhode Island that
my dad sold votes for a living. And to be like,
I can't believe I opened the Emmys for goodness sake
in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
You seem to do having fun.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
I mean, and yeah, you survived because as you know,
a lot of guys don't walk away from this thing
able to hold their head up. A lot of guys,
it chews you up and spits you out. Let me
ask you. You said it's about people, But do.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
You know why though? Here here's why though, because I honestly,
I don't mean to sound like I'm not the best
at a lot of things, but I have my priorities straight.
And when the opportunity came to get an off ramp,
and I said this to the President because he had
been very gracious he wanted me to stay in the
White House. I was communications director and White House pres secretary.
(23:21):
And I said it was the President, you need you
need a fresh start, and and I knew that that
was my offering I honestly believe that God had said
to me, Sean, I'm telling you right now, like this
is this is our off ramp, and and and and
I knew if I stayed longer, it wouldn't And and
like I said, here we are eight years later. I
(23:41):
call him, he calls me. He was kind enough to
reappoint me to the Naval Academy Board. He's endorsed all
four of the books that I've written. He literally voted
for me on a reality television show when he was
President United. Say that is a guy who you know,
he's had my back, and and and I just it
is so to your point, Like part of the thing
(24:03):
is that I feel like I knew when a lot
of people in Washington can't walk away from power. And
I knew the second the day that I said that
I was stepping down, that that was going to change forever.
I would it would never be the same again. But
I also knew that if I stayed, it wouldn't be
the same, and it was not going to go.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
It's me of the world as we know it. Michael
Barry Hugh Ends of the World.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
John Spicer is our guest. Sean, you know, when I
assess what the president's been able to do.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
It's it's in a sort of.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Nixon's first term Imperial presidency sort of manner. And and
because he has the House and the Senate, both of
them with a tenuous, delicate, dangling majority that could change,
and a lot of folks that if they have the chance,
would stab him in the back, but right now have
to play along. It concerns me because if things have
(25:12):
to go through the House or the Senate, we've had
We've had pretty good luck so far. But it does
concern me. What concerns you the most for the continued
success of this president in this country, which I know
you care so deeply about.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Is it the tariffs? Is it? Is it the financial folks?
Is it Chinese intervention?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
What are the things that you see on the horizon
and you say, let's just keep an eye on that.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Well, I think the greatest threat we face is from China.
And I think that if we don't like I think
President Trump needs him majority. We watched this for this
first term when he lost the House majority, they spend
all their time in teaching him, obstructing him, and attacking him.
And so I think that people have to understand he
needs to be able to have the runway. As I
mentioned to you a moment ago, like not just to like.
I love what he's doing now, the tax cuts, getting
(25:57):
the border focused, but if we don't codify some of
these things in legislation before, you know, and maintain a
House and Senate majority, I feel good about the Senate,
less so about you know, so anyway, I actually worry
that if he doesn't keep the majority, it's the it
stunts the uh, the progress that we've made.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
And and you know, it happened so fast that the
momentum he with which he started and as you said,
it was it was having a plan that you execute.
You know, you have kids. I don't know if you've
been to youth sports, but I've coached youth sports. And
when the other team is better than your team and
you show up on the first day and you go, oh,
those kids, they've been playing together for years.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
And I got a bunch of kids.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
In their first year and you know, oh, well, we
came to the battle and got whipped. He did that
to them, and it was a blitzkreag. He came in
and he just rolled over them. And now I worry.
You know, we've got to keep that momentum going. And
that's my concern. And I know you've been in that
room where you talk about how to jump start that momentum,
get it going again.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
One hundred percent. And that's the key is that stay focused.
And I think the president has a focus. You know
that he didn't And again it's not that he didn't,
it's not. I don't feel like this is a slight
to say, but I think he is so much more
driven now. Four years out of office has given him
such different perspective about how to get the job done.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah, I've never seen anything quite like this.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
I mean, you know, we had We've had very few
presidencies separated in this way.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
And I think once you're in the White House, you
don't get better.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
We've seen a decline in presidents in the in the
second term and you're just fending off.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
But it's like those years in Siberia.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
It's much like when Nixon leaves the vice presidency in
sixty and loses the governor's race in California in sixty two,
and from sixty two to sixty eight, he got better
and he got stronger, and he understood his support and
he understood where his voters were.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And I think those four years, oddly enough, even though being.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Dragged to court, I think Trump did some very deep
thinking and I think he sought some good input. Oh
and he's a different man today, and he's a better
leader because of He's more effective for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, no question about it, No question about it. And
so I think the time away, the assassination attempts were
all critical in not thinking.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
When you look at the American public's reaction to Trump,
you know, when y'all came in, he was still a
shock in all guy. People were still sort of frightened
of him. I think people have come to understand, hey,
he can say something, he can threaten something, he can
promise something, he can insult somebody from being fat, it's
gonna be okay. Is it interesting or what's your reaction
(28:45):
to how America has learned to process Trump and understand
that's just who he is.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Well, this goes to the point you are making. I
think one of the things we've only had at one
time previously in history is that when you're able to
contrast like so normally, you know, president gets two consecutive
terms and you know, maybe you have some you know,
you go, gosh, I wish we had them back or whatever.
But Trump, when he ran against Biden, they contrasted their policies.
You know, Biden got into office and then when Trump
(29:14):
came in back and off it where Trump was running again.
I think people said, Okay, maybe we didn't like some
of the style thing, but we really saw the difference
in policies between Trump and Biden, and we need them back.
And that was what I think was critically different, is
that the American people had a contrast that was so different.
So I was excited. I think it's it can't be
(29:36):
overstated how impactful it is. Having four years between was yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
And but what's amazing is, you know, unlike Reagan, who
comes onto the scene seventy six, Ford holds onto the
nomination in eighty. He comes back stronger, but he spends
those four years in relative peace and quiet and meetings
and this sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Those weren't four quiet years.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
I mean, those were four tough years of being dragged
at court and insulted and threatened. And yet all the
while he was he was reloading. And I think that
I've never seen anything like this it's a it's a
juggernaut the likes of which I've never seen. You've been
around politics, you know, at the highest levels, but I've
never seen a candidate like this, and I don't see
a candidate in the offing like this. Let me ask
(30:16):
you this, do you think the president is able to
hold his coalition through the entirety of his president and presidency?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Obviously the midterms are going to be important.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Who out there worries you as a break in in
the facade or breaking in the the consensus?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Well, I don't think any. I mean, look, I think
it's it's rock solid. You've seen some of these folks.
We didn't have that case in the Trump flavor. The
Freedom Caucus when we're trying to repeal healthcare was was
Trump's biggest opponent. And so now having like you watch
just this budget resolution that passed, you know, the Freedom Caucuss, Andy,
(30:58):
Andy Harris and Chip Roy Texas all you know eventually
came on board. That was huge.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Yeah, And I what I see is that there his
support is so deep and so committed and so zealous
that you can't just oppose him if you are a
Republican without being punished for it.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
His support says.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Hey, I got it, bossy, you got your high minded position,
but we're going to punish you. And I think they've
learned from that and that that's a real impressive way
to govern. It's a consensus government.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Well, but see, it's not just the person. Back when
I was on the hill for a while in the
early two thousands, Tom Delay with the majority whip, and
people knew not to cross Tom because you know he
would exact political revenge. Donald Trump, it's not even that.
I think people understand the movement will get you. It's
not Donald Trump. People will will you know, your your
constituents will come after you. And that's that's I think
(31:59):
the big differen right.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Yeah, I've never seen at any level of government an
officeholder or candidate whose supporters are so willing to go
to bat for him. And you know, I've seen that
with foreign leaders, but certainly none. And his is such
a deep committed relationship and he knows it and he
(32:22):
puts it to good use.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
John Spicer, you are the best. You're welcome back anytime.
Thank you, my man, Thank you appreciate it. Take care
of me, he gentleman.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Elvis has let for Ji, thank you, and good night.
It's that time, time, time, time, luck and load.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
So Michael Verie Show is on the air. Interesting things
happening in Poland.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
They have a presidential election in a month, and we're
seeing European countries.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Who are at an inflection point.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Either they take back their country in a nationalist populist
movement the way we have in this country, or it
will be so far gone that it will be impossible
to get it back. Last night, the Conservative candidate for
president walked across the debate stage beginning of the debate.
(01:03):
It looked very similar to a debate here presidential debate,
same set up, just the white on top of the
red under the bottom of the colors of the Polish flag.
He walks across, He puts the Polish flag on his lectern,
(01:23):
and he takes the rainbow flag and walks it over
to his opponent and says, here, here is your flag,
making the point that you are not serving the people
of Poland, you are serving the politics of progressivism. You're
(01:43):
seeing this in Germany, you're seeing it in the UK.
The Irish Prime Minister was walking on a street in
Dublin over the weekend and a crowd of people random
lee as he came out of a back alley started
screaming at him that Muslims are killing our children, They're
(02:08):
overrunning our country.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
This is horrible and.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I'm not for accosting people in public, but nobody got
up in his space. They simply booed him the way
you booed Tim Walls when you see it. For so long,
people were afraid to speak out in defense of nationalism
for a number of different reasons. Progressives are very effective
(02:36):
at using shame and guilt and actual clubbings.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
They get people.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Fired, but they're very rarely the one doing the firing.
They're getting someone to fire us. If I can't tell
you how many people over the years have done the
wrong thing by giving in to the progressive mob, knowing
it was the wrong thing. But what they want to
do is keep the heat off of themselves, kick the
can down the street. And if that continues in Europe.
(03:10):
So we went to Japan at Christmas, and the folks
there were telling me that Japan has had an absolute
boom of tourism. And when you drill down, you find
out that the thing that they hear from people is
we used to go to Europe. Now we come here,
(03:31):
or they're coming for the first time and it's prohibitively distant.
It's a brutal flight. I was surprised I posted about
being there, and I was surprised how many of our
listeners email me that they go to Japan more than
once a year. There were people who go every other week.
(03:52):
I my wife just got back from India and for
ten days she was jetlaged. For ten days, she was
not herself trying to get back on the system. Today's
her birthday, so she's fifty seven today. There is no
doubt that adjusting to jet lag at fifty seven is
(04:14):
much harder than it was when we were in our twenties.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
There's a lot of things like that.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Hangovers, workouts, a long wall, I mean, there's a lot
of things fit into that. Your body doesn't respond the
way it used to. But the reason people are going
to Japan is that the crime rate is so insanely low,
insanely low in addition to cleanliness. And part of the
(04:41):
reason is Japan does not feel guilt at how poor
and broken and violent and inbred some other countries are,
and they don't feel the need to bring those problems
to their country. But England does, Denmark does, Ireland does,
(05:04):
Germany does, France does. And if you haven't been to
Europe in the last few years, and you ever went before,
you're going to be shocked.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
That that is an overused word.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Not in this case. You're going to be gobsmacked. You're
going to want to leave. You walk to Chacelyse tomorrow
and you are not in Paris any longer. You are
in a different country with different behaviors. It is the
(05:44):
charm of London is lost to me now, and it
only gets worse. It only gets worse because you brought
in in these two cases, you brought in Middle Eastern
cultures where you've brought in so many people in such
a short period of time that there's no assimilation. So
(06:08):
the dominant home culture, which would normally kind of enforce itself,
is lost. So now you're basically just relocating broken countries
in London and Paris and Berlin and now Dublin, and
that doesn't work. It doesn't work here. You look at
(06:31):
Mogod issue in Minnesota used to be Minneapolis. There are
parts of Mogod issue that are more Somalia than they
are the United States. And all the problems you had
in Somalia are brought here.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Now.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Nobody wants to say that because we don't want to
believe people are different.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Okay. Can we agree that people speak different languages? Okay,
all right, we can let's start there. All right, We've
we've found common ground.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
All right, So we can agree that people from this
region speak a different language and people from Kentucky. Okay,
we're gonnagree with people from Louisiana speak different than people
from miss Yes, we can agree with that.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Can we agree that people may have different religious practices?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Okay, but I'm feeling uncomfortable.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Can we agree let's make a leap that won't be
as offensive but is undeniably true. Can we agree that
different cultures have different views on how women are to
be treated in public? For instance, whether women can go
out in public without their head covered, whether women can drive,
(07:47):
whether women can hold positions, can can work, whether men
can cat call women. These are social It's very hard
to write laws for these sorts of things. But culture
is maintained very loosely, but definitely by these sorts of
(08:12):
by the dominant culture said no, no, we don't do that,
So people would come to this country or Europe, and
they'd say, oh, when I'm here, I have to act
this way.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
They don't have to do that again. If you're listening
to Michael Berryscouse Lifeless Black Eyes like a dousand.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
January twenty seventeen, President Trump has, in the most improbable
win in the modern era, won the White House and
he's going in and the battle really begins now because
half the people there can't be trusted. Half the people
there are working against him. It has taken all these
(08:53):
years to really find out what was going on, but
there were some loyal folks who were in the trenches
with him, and I think back now, you know, this
has been a really soaring administration because President Trump learned
you can't trust those people you got and he's gone
in with all the momentum. Right, It wasn't like that
(09:14):
back in January twenty seventeen. One of the guys, probably
the guy who was getting beat up the worst, through
no fault of his own. He was just taking the
beating and getting back up with Sean Spicer, the Press
Secretary and Communications director, and he's our guest.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Welcome to the programs.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Huh hi, Michael Good be with you. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
You got to be thinking, as you see Carolyn Levitt
up there, going, hey, I didn't have it this easy.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Well, you know, it's funny when you say that. I
had a conversation with the President a couple of weeks back,
and he was asking me. He said, you know, this
is just how he operates. He always says, how do
you think it's going, how's everyone doing? And I said
to him, sir, I'm a little jealous. He started laughing
and he said, why do you see that. I said,
because you know, we came in He was very magnanimous,
and he said, oh, that's nice in that, and I said, well,
(10:02):
it's true. I think we we went in for, you know,
with all the best intentions, and to your point in
your introduction, there were some people that didn't share that,
and they thought that they either were there to serve
their own agenda or to resist his. And I think
a lot of it was new and I've said to
folks before, you know. Part of the thing for me
(10:23):
was I I actually had this very fun conversation with
him at one point, and we're talking about traditions and
how the White House operates. That he looks at me
and he said, Sean, I'm going to be the most
traditional president ever. And I was like, oh, cool, I
know tradition. I can I that guy got this that
and and that clearly wasn't the case. And and you know,
he beats to his own drum and he has his
(10:45):
own style in his way, and and it's just it
was it was a learning experience for a lot of us.
And and like I said, so I I was so
super proud to have been part of that. And uh,
but but it's different. And here's the thing, Michael. I've
identified three things, the people, the process, and the policies.
(11:06):
And you touched on this at the beginning at the
beginning of your segment. And what I mean by the
people is, let's have he ex trusted a lot of
people that they said, oh I want to serve in
the Trump administration where they were recommended by somebody, and
so he took their workforce and they weren't people that
were there for the right necessarily intentions. This time, the
people that he's front on board, he knows, he trusts,
they understand the goal at hand, and that's a very
(11:28):
different dynamic. Okay, So that's number one. Then we go
to the policies. He knows exactly what he wants to
do and how to do it. He knows what he
wants to fight for, what he wants to accomplish. And
the last is the process, which is he knows how
to do it now not only the levers of government
to pull, but where the resistance is going to come from. Okay,
and that is important because he sort of if you
(11:51):
think about it, day one, Tom Holme is doing all
of these immigration roundups. He knew what cities to go to,
where to find them. They didn't just think of this
out of thin air. It wasn't just you know, maybe
we should go to Boston, maybe we should go to Chicago.
They knew where to go because they had been spending
four years plotting and planning exactly what they would do
if they got back in office.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And you see it.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
It is a well executed strategy, brilliant in its in
its plan and flawless in the execution. I also think
that he brought in you were a guy that was
willing to withstand slings and arrows. I think there were
some folks who weren't. They were a little more retiring,
a little more reticent, a little more reserved. Mike Pence
(12:32):
was not really you know, a battle weary partner for him.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
He's got guys that really.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Enjoy going into into the fire, you know, jd Vance
and Pete Hegseeth and Toolsey and in each one of
them ready to take on the battle. And I feel
like that allows him, you know, like like a leader,
a president with his generals. It allows him to dissipate
some of that, to spread some of that. Elon takes
(13:01):
a lot of that hatred. And I think that I'd
be curious to know your thoughts, but I think that
has helped him a lot as well.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Look at the thing that the media gets wrong Michael
is They keep saying, oh, he's surprouted himself with loyalists.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
A dog can be loyal.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
That's not nothing that these people are disruptors. These are
people who understand the agenda and what the president wants
to accomplish and are like, great, I got it. So
whether Paulsey, RFK or Pete hegseth uh, you know Lee
Delvin at the EPA, these guys are coming in and saying, Okay,
we got it, we got the mission, We're ready to execute.
And frankly you're seeing the results. I mentioned Tom Holman,
(13:38):
another guy who's going in there to do this. But
there's one thing that I keep warning Republicans on, which is,
guys that we've now seen. You know, Trump got elected,
he made a lot of great things happen. He helped
secure the border, get US energy independent, and what's Biden
to Biden undoes all of that through executive order. And
then what is Trump do? He undoes the Biden and
(13:59):
reinstitutes a lot of stuff, then builds on it. And
my message to Republicans, especially in the area of immigration,
is if you like what President Trump is doing, then
we need to codify law. Because if you look at
where President Trump has gotten pushback, it's not this resistance
that we had in the first term.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
It's the courts.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
And what are the courts saying. They're saying, well, the
law is clear that X or not clear that why.
And so my point to my fellow Republicans is, if
you like what President Trump did, if you like what
he accomplished, then don't let another president do it. Codify
immigration stuff in law. Figure out how many visiness we want,
how many judges, how many CBP or ice agents we
(14:40):
want set new limits on making us more of a meritocracy.
So we figure out what kind of immigration system we want.
But we keep fudging along and hoping that President Trump's
going to stay in office forever. It's just not you know,
as much as we may want that to happen, it's
not going to happen while we have majority. And this
is the other point that I try to make to
(15:01):
Republicans is I would love to believe that we're just
going to get judged by, you know, putting points on
the board and delivering for the American people. But we've
seen what it takes to get legislation passed, and God forbid,
we lose the House Republican majority, which is you know,
tenuous at best. We got two more seats last week
(15:23):
because that's somehow everybody felt like, oh that was great,
and I'm like, that's just two more down to We're
up to a four seat majority. Yay. But if you
really want to ensure that things are going to happen,
then use these next eighteen plus months to actually codify
the Trump agenda, especially in immigration in law.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
I agree the long term reforms, I think, and that's
how you bring real change instead of an overnight win.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
That's the war, not the battle thing.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
We'll continue our conversation with Sean Spicer, former Press secretary
and communications direct in the first trumpets, I don't care
if somebody this restakes you, you can shoots. John Spicer
was Press secretary and communications director under President Trump in
(16:19):
the early days, the tough days, the time when UH
general's loyal to the president were being entrapped by the FBI,
at a time when Jim Comey was working very hard
to try to put Donald Trump in prison, at a
time when the security in deep state apparatus was working
(16:39):
against the president and doing things that are unspeakable. He
has some memories, shall we say, he's our guests. Let's
talk about the border. Obviously, something that y'all worked on
very hard. I have been, I must admit, I have
been delighted and at the same time surprised at the
(17:00):
the effectiveness and the swiftness with which this thing has
happened and how successful it has been.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Your thoughts, Yeah, I mean there's two things.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Just one.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
It proved to me that if you focus on something anything,
it's not necessarily easy, but you can get results. Right. So,
I mean, whether you trying to get in shape or
sell something or in this.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Case secure of the border.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
What happened under Biden is they allow they made the
border open. People came in. They gave incentives to people
to come. I tell this story all the time. I
got a buddy of mine that does a lot of
federal contracting with the State Department. And in the Trump
first term, they had assigned throughout America that said, you
know the borders, clothes, don't come. When Biden came into office,
they changed the billboards and it said need help, here's
the phone number. Right. They literally it was a magnet
(17:50):
to come into this country. Kamala Harris might have told
people don't, but the reality is that if you're told,
if you do, though, we're gonna give you a hotel room,
a gift card, free phones, etc. You're gonna come. They
understood they wouldn't get kicked out, they wouldn't be stopped,
and so they came. President Trump changed that in a heartbeat,
and you know, Tom Holman and everyone's rounding people up,
making it clear that this is a priority of this president.
(18:13):
But you know, it just showed you how much we
were gas lit by the Biden administration, right, who told us, oh,
we can't do anything, there's nothing wrong, there's no criminals here. Well,
if there were no criminals here, how did President Trump
just round up all those Trendady Dagua people and the
NS thirteen gangbaggers, Because you know, under the Biden administration,
they told us our border was secure, nothing was wrong,
(18:34):
and it was clearly a lie.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
It's it's quite interesting. Sean Spicer is our guess. He
was the first Press secretary of Communications director for President Trump.
Let me pull back for our moment on Trump. Let's
talk about Sean Spiccer. How has life changed for you?
What does what does life look like for you today?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
That's a great question.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
So when I walked into the White House, I'd been
the community cation structor and the chief strategies for the
Republican National Committee for six years. I've been around Washington
working for members of Congress. I'd just come actually off
on active duty deployment. Uh so, I you know, I
was just your typical staffer and then walked in the
Trump White House and got thrown, you know, into the
(19:17):
deep end real quick. And it was a challenging yet
honorific opportunity to serve the country and to President Trump
and then look, it was funny afterwards I did stuff
that I mean, I have had some pretty cool moments
since I left the White House. I still stay in
touch with President Trump. As I mentioned, I talked to
one in the Fund the other day. He appointed me
to the Naval Academy Board of Visitors. You know, I've
(19:39):
got two shows. The Shawn Spicer Show, airs every night
six pm Eastern on YouTube. So I'm doing stuff, Michael,
for the first time. I was always somebody else's spokesman,
and now I get to talk about what I think
and why I think things need to get downe on
what the priorities. I've written four books, you know, I
may announce a fifth one soon. It's been fun to
do something when you when you're My whole life professionally
(20:01):
was focused on you know, even in the military as
a public affairs officer, right, and I've always spoken for
other people and entities, and when you leave and get
the opportunity to, you know, launch shows. I have a
show every morning, a live show on my YouTube channel
called The Morning Meeting, where we talk about the issues
of the day. And it's fun to be able to
give people my opinion, my thought, my insights from thirty
(20:22):
years of politics, and that's a very different place than
I've ever been.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
But I got to imagine with all of that and
enjoying a little more, you know, taking an extra thirty
minutes onto your cup of coffee, or making one more
lap on your morning walk if you so choose, or
sleeping in on occasion if you want. I gotta imagine
for guys like you, having been in it myself, you
have to miss the adrenaline. It's a drug, and I
(20:49):
know there are days that you are missing that and
wishing you were in there in the battle.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
You know, what's the funny thing about you saying that? One?
I used to when I left Capitol Hill and went
to different places, I would always say I always I
think that I found it like, I don't know if
it's because I have kids now they're teenagers. It's like,
I think my priorities are a little bit different, having
to want to spend time. And I know it's always
like this cliche Washington thing. I love it, don't get
(21:17):
me wrong. I will never I'm so honored that President
Trump had me serves as the White House pres Secretary
but now when I get to do stuff like I
wake up, Like I said, I have the show every
morning it's live for an hour on YouTube where I
walk through with Mark Alper and a guy named Dan
Turntine that we call it the Morning Meeting. It's very
(21:38):
it's just continues to grow in popularity. Then I do
my show that airs at six o'clock on YouTube, And
like I said, I do a lot of writing. I
write commps, so I don't It's almost like I've kind
of pivoted my my love for politics into into different ways.
So now I can actually openly opine about what I
like to do and what I like to say. And
so I'm fired up. I get your point. Like I
(22:01):
if ten it was a ten year Yeah, ten years ago,
I wouldn't know what to do. I used to work
crazy hours at the RNC, and I have people tell
me all the time, you know, wow, you work crazy
hours and how do you ever find time? And it's
because I love it. I love politics, I love the
back and forth. I love you know that no day
is ever the same. That I had a great team
to work with. I mean, but there's something about like
(22:23):
the last few years where I've enjoyed, like getting to
do things like I've had the I've had the I
was on a reality shows you might recall the stars.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I did a back movie.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
There's stuff that is a kid from Rhode Island that
my dad sold votes for a living. And to be like,
I can't believe I opened the Emmys for goodness sake
in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
You seem to do having fun.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
I mean, and yeah, you survived because as you know,
a lot of guys don't walk away from this thing
able to hold their head up. A lot of guys,
it chews you up and spits you out. Let me
ask you. You said it's about people, But do.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
You know why though? Here here's why though, because I honestly,
I don't mean to sound like I'm not the best
at a lot of things, but I have my priorities straight.
And when the opportunity came to get an off ramp,
and I said this to the President because he had
been very gracious he wanted me to stay in the
White House. I was communications director and White House pres secretary.
(23:21):
And I said it was the President, you need you
need a fresh start, and and I knew that that
was my offering I honestly believe that God had said
to me, Sean, I'm telling you right now, like this
is this is our off ramp, and and and and
I knew if I stayed longer, it wouldn't And and
like I said, here we are eight years later. I
(23:41):
call him, he calls me. He was kind enough to
reappoint me to the Naval Academy Board. He's endorsed all
four of the books that I've written. He literally voted
for me on a reality television show when he was
President United. Say that is a guy who you know,
he's had my back, and and and I just it
is so to your point, Like part of the thing
(24:03):
is that I feel like I knew when a lot
of people in Washington can't walk away from power. And
I knew the second the day that I said that
I was stepping down, that that was going to change forever.
I would it would never be the same again. But
I also knew that if I stayed, it wouldn't be
the same, and it was not going to go.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
It's me of the world as we know it. Michael
Barry Hugh Ends of the World.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
John Spicer is our guest. Sean, you know, when I
assess what the president's been able to do.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
It's it's in a sort of.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Nixon's first term Imperial presidency sort of manner. And and
because he has the House and the Senate, both of
them with a tenuous, delicate, dangling majority that could change,
and a lot of folks that if they have the chance,
would stab him in the back, but right now have
to play along. It concerns me because if things have
(25:12):
to go through the House or the Senate, we've had
We've had pretty good luck so far. But it does
concern me. What concerns you the most for the continued
success of this president in this country, which I know
you care so deeply about.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Is it the tariffs? Is it? Is it the financial folks?
Is it Chinese intervention?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
What are the things that you see on the horizon
and you say, let's just keep an eye on that.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Well, I think the greatest threat we face is from China.
And I think that if we don't like I think
President Trump needs him majority. We watched this for this
first term when he lost the House majority, they spend
all their time in teaching him, obstructing him, and attacking him.
And so I think that people have to understand he
needs to be able to have the runway. As I
mentioned to you a moment ago, like not just to like.
I love what he's doing now, the tax cuts, getting
(25:57):
the border focused, but if we don't codify some of
these things in legislation before, you know, and maintain a
House and Senate majority, I feel good about the Senate,
less so about you know, so anyway, I actually worry
that if he doesn't keep the majority, it's the it
stunts the uh, the progress that we've made.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
And and you know, it happened so fast that the
momentum he with which he started and as you said,
it was it was having a plan that you execute.
You know, you have kids. I don't know if you've
been to youth sports, but I've coached youth sports. And
when the other team is better than your team and
you show up on the first day and you go, oh,
those kids, they've been playing together for years.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
And I got a bunch of kids.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
In their first year and you know, oh, well, we
came to the battle and got whipped. He did that
to them, and it was a blitzkreag. He came in
and he just rolled over them. And now I worry.
You know, we've got to keep that momentum going. And
that's my concern. And I know you've been in that
room where you talk about how to jump start that momentum,
get it going again.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
One hundred percent. And that's the key is that stay focused.
And I think the president has a focus. You know
that he didn't And again it's not that he didn't,
it's not. I don't feel like this is a slight
to say, but I think he is so much more
driven now. Four years out of office has given him
such different perspective about how to get the job done.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah, I've never seen anything quite like this.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
I mean, you know, we had We've had very few
presidencies separated in this way.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
And I think once you're in the White House, you
don't get better.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
We've seen a decline in presidents in the in the
second term and you're just fending off.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
But it's like those years in Siberia.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
It's much like when Nixon leaves the vice presidency in
sixty and loses the governor's race in California in sixty two,
and from sixty two to sixty eight, he got better
and he got stronger, and he understood his support and
he understood where his voters were.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And I think those four years, oddly enough, even though being.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Dragged to court, I think Trump did some very deep
thinking and I think he sought some good input. Oh
and he's a different man today, and he's a better
leader because of He's more effective for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, no question about it, No question about it. And
so I think the time away, the assassination attempts were
all critical in not thinking.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
When you look at the American public's reaction to Trump,
you know, when y'all came in, he was still a
shock in all guy. People were still sort of frightened
of him. I think people have come to understand, hey,
he can say something, he can threaten something, he can
promise something, he can insult somebody from being fat, it's
gonna be okay. Is it interesting or what's your reaction
(28:45):
to how America has learned to process Trump and understand
that's just who he is.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Well, this goes to the point you are making. I
think one of the things we've only had at one
time previously in history is that when you're able to
contrast like so normally, you know, president gets two consecutive
terms and you know, maybe you have some you know,
you go, gosh, I wish we had them back or whatever.
But Trump, when he ran against Biden, they contrasted their policies.
You know, Biden got into office and then when Trump
(29:14):
came in back and off it where Trump was running again.
I think people said, Okay, maybe we didn't like some
of the style thing, but we really saw the difference
in policies between Trump and Biden, and we need them back.
And that was what I think was critically different, is
that the American people had a contrast that was so different.
So I was excited. I think it's it can't be
(29:36):
overstated how impactful it is. Having four years between was yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
And but what's amazing is, you know, unlike Reagan, who
comes onto the scene seventy six, Ford holds onto the
nomination in eighty. He comes back stronger, but he spends
those four years in relative peace and quiet and meetings
and this sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Those weren't four quiet years.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
I mean, those were four tough years of being dragged
at court and insulted and threatened. And yet all the
while he was he was reloading. And I think that
I've never seen anything like this it's a it's a
juggernaut the likes of which I've never seen. You've been
around politics, you know, at the highest levels, but I've
never seen a candidate like this, and I don't see
a candidate in the offing like this. Let me ask
(30:16):
you this, do you think the president is able to
hold his coalition through the entirety of his president and presidency?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Obviously the midterms are going to be important.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Who out there worries you as a break in in
the facade or breaking in the the consensus?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Well, I don't think any. I mean, look, I think
it's it's rock solid. You've seen some of these folks.
We didn't have that case in the Trump flavor. The
Freedom Caucus when we're trying to repeal healthcare was was
Trump's biggest opponent. And so now having like you watch
just this budget resolution that passed, you know, the Freedom Caucuss, Andy,
(30:58):
Andy Harris and Chip Roy Texas all you know eventually
came on board. That was huge.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Yeah, And I what I see is that there his
support is so deep and so committed and so zealous
that you can't just oppose him if you are a
Republican without being punished for it.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
His support says.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Hey, I got it, bossy, you got your high minded position,
but we're going to punish you. And I think they've
learned from that and that that's a real impressive way
to govern. It's a consensus government.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Well, but see, it's not just the person. Back when
I was on the hill for a while in the
early two thousands, Tom Delay with the majority whip, and
people knew not to cross Tom because you know he
would exact political revenge. Donald Trump, it's not even that.
I think people understand the movement will get you. It's
not Donald Trump. People will will you know, your your
constituents will come after you. And that's that's I think
(31:59):
the big differen right.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Yeah, I've never seen at any level of government an
officeholder or candidate whose supporters are so willing to go
to bat for him. And you know, I've seen that
with foreign leaders, but certainly none. And his is such
a deep committed relationship and he knows it and he
(32:22):
puts it to good use.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
John Spicer, you are the best. You're welcome back anytime.
Thank you, my man, Thank you appreciate it. Take care
of me, he gentleman.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Elvis has let for Ji, thank you, and good night.
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