February 26, 2025 • 34 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
David Kleanler as our guest. He resides in the Greater
Brinham area. Now. His son's the head football coach at
Somerville High School. His other son is the offensive coordinator there.
You probably remember the name if you've been in Houston
or followed football for very long. He was a star
quarterback at the University of Houston in the early nineties.
(00:21):
He was third runner up for second runner up for
the Heisman Trophy. First round draft pick of the Cincinnati
Bengals ended up going to the Raiders, but his elbow
was blown by then and came home and decided he
really wanted to learn the Bible, and now he teaches
others and teaches people how to learn the Bible. He,
(00:41):
of course, in the meantime, went and got a PhD
at Seminary in theology. David, let me ask you a question.
You were talking earlier about theological studies and the types
of people who go there. I have heard it said
of people I've known who were Theologians that went to
Harvard School that there aren't actually any Christians there, that
(01:04):
it's as if it's sort of like you go to
a literature school and there's no writers there that there
are people who reduce it to something that does not
involve any faith. Do you find that to be the case.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes, well, yeah, we have a in our desire to
make the Bible more acceptable because of what we were
talking in the last session that you know, the Bible
calls to suffering. You know, James is going to say,
(01:37):
considered all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials
knowing that the testing of your faith works for endurance,
and let endurance have it. That's not fun talk right suffering,
you know. And so in our desire to make the
Bible more appealing, less offensive, more tolerant, more all accepting,
(02:00):
we water down the Gospel, We water down the teachings
of the Bible. And it's all around us today. But
it's not just today. That's always been the case, Paul,
from the very beginning. The all of the letters that
we see in the New Testament. We're actually in we're
having a conference coming up in March fourteenth and fifteenth
(02:22):
where we're going to talk about the letters. But all
of the letters in the Bible, whether it's Romans or
Ephesians or Galatians or whatever it is, these were letters
written to people or to the church to address theological
issues that have come up that are causing people to change,
to compromise. And so every school Princeton, Harvard, so many
(02:47):
of our great schools, Yale, they all began as theological institutions.
And unfortunately we tend to wander from the faith. And
it wouldn't surprise me if even schools that have historically
been really good Dallas Seminary or you know, all of
(03:07):
these denominations, we're seeing it. They all wander from the
faith and compromise, often under the guise of being tolerant
and more loving. But what happens is we we change
the definitions right of these words. And you see it
even in constitutional law and government and these types of things,
that if you're allowed to change the definitions, you can
(03:30):
make it mean whenever you want right. And so I
see it's.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
The ultimate O right. That's what New Speakers about. He
gave us the tools to understand this, that words have meaning,
and that if you need to change concepts, you simply
change words and change meaning. And it's very powerful. You
made a reference to the church, and I'm never you know,
people like to paint with a broad brush and refer
(03:53):
to the black community as if all black people live
in a certain neighborhood and make the same amount of
money and do the same things. And it's just not true.
And so I'm going to paint with a bit of
a broadbrush. But when you look at the church today,
organized Christianity in the form most of us would identify with,
where do you see that as compared to where it was?
(04:16):
And what would you most like to change?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I tell you know, when we walk down that that's
a great question. We walk down the trail of church history.
One of the things that we're doing at our church,
Champion Fellowship and Brenham is we are I'm helping us
think through the reality the distinction between the church or
a church. A church is simply a gathering of believers,
(04:42):
and so you know, and so once a you know,
a group of believers gathers, we can call it a church.
But the Body of Christ, the Body of Christ, is
all believers in all places, in all times. At the
end of the story, people from every nation, every tribe,
every people, every tongue. This is the Body of Christ.
And we have so divided the Body of Christ. We've
(05:04):
so you know, we have factions Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic, Baptist, UH.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I prefer to just refer to it as Southern Baptist.
And the non Christians, well, that's.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, that we're the only ones who are who are saved, right,
We're the only ones who are in And and I
love what Paul says to the Corinthians. You know that
this is UH, you know, very early one of UH,
one of the early letters that Paul writes. And there's
divisions in the church at Corinth And and they've divided
over following. Some of them are following Paul, some of
(05:46):
them are following Apollos, who's the pastor of the church there.
Some of them are following Peter, who's the leader of
the of the Jews and the church in Jerusalem. And
and I love what he says. He says, you know,
I hear that there are divisions among you. Some are
saying I'm of Paul, or I'm of Apollos, or I'm
of Peter or of Christ. And then he asks this question,
(06:08):
was Paul crucified for you or were you baptized in
the name of Paul. I thank god I didn't baptize
any of you, so none of you could say you
were baptized in My name right. And then he goes
on to say, and this is where the it kind
of makes us, you know, Baptists uncomfortable. He says, the
Lord didn't send me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel.
(06:29):
And so he goes on to explain in this whole
letter that everything he does is to build up the
body of Christ. And so we do great error when
we fail to recognize that all believers in all places,
in all times, in all churches, and none of us
have the you know, we're all heretics in the sense
(06:52):
that we all believe false doctrine. We just don't know
what the false doctrine is that we're believing. And so
that's what we've got to go back to the scripture
all of the time to make sure that what we're
saying is So we've got to be bereans. And I
think that you've got to have a lot of humility
when you come to the scriptures and put yourself under
(07:13):
the authority of the text, not under the authority of
a teacher, a Bible teacher, a ministry, even if it's
teached me the Bible or whatever it is. We all
have to answer to the Lord. And so so you know,
the church has always been in some ways a mess.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Because it's human.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Church is the bride of Christ, sure, and the church
is the bride of Christ, and He gave himself for
the Church. And so so one of the.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Things that David Cuiller is our guest, I'm going to
ask him in his teach Me the Bible dot com
and teach Me the Bible podcast sort of way to
teach me about one of my favorite people in the Bible,
and that is the apostle part which she said in Spinish.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I just said it's the judge in Spanish, because I
feel that she forgets that we're Hispanic and that we're
the people that she targeted for.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
A book The Michael Verie Show. David Klingler is our guest.
You may remember him as a football star U He
went on to get his pH d in theological studies
with an expertise in the Old Testament. You can go
to teach Me the Bible dot com in a very
accessible way to learn about the Bible. He also has
a podcast those of you always looking for a fun
(08:30):
new podcast, and he's our guest of David Klingler, if
you would teach me the Bible about Paul. Saul of Tarsus.
One of my favorite, one of my favorite people in
all the Bible is Uh Saul of Tarsus because of well,
for many reasons. But anyway, teach me the Bible about Paul.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Uh. What an You know, Paul was a he's a pharisee.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
You know, he kind of lists his credentials in Philippians
chapter three. You know, he was of the tribe of Benjamin,
circumcised on the eighth day. He was steadfast in his
holding to Judaism, persecution of the church. And uh. And
so the thing about Paul is he knew the Old
Testament scriptures stone cold. I mean, he knew, he knew
(09:21):
the Bible. He knew the Old Testament scriptures. And when
he comes to Christ, it just changes everything for him.
Uh and uh. And so he wholly devotes himself to
the Lord. And and we were talking in the last
segment about the Corinthians and and and everything that he
does is for the building up of the body of Christ.
(09:42):
He explains that we are members of one another. And
I love how he how he sets that out that
John says the same thing. It's all bringing a little
bit of John here in first John. But how can
you say that you love Christ and you haven't seen Uh,
none of us have seen Jesus. None of us have
heard his voice. We talk about, you know, we use
(10:05):
that kind of language. You know, I've heard the voice,
but you know, but how would you know? Right, Paul
was going to say, Look, I don't care if an
angel appears in you know, in the room. If if
someone appears to you, if an angel appears to you
and presents a gospel different than that which I preached,
let him be a cursed And you know. And so
if we haven't seen Jesus, don't tell me about your
(10:27):
love of Jesus. Show me your love of Jesus through
your love of his body. That is the Church, the
body of Christ. And so we need to be about
building up the body of christis everything he does. He
sacrifices his whole life, all of his credentials, to build
up the Body of Christ, to take the gospel to
the gentiles. And and boy, he is bold, I mean
(10:49):
unbelievably bold, and ultimately goes to his death because of it.
Just an amazing character.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
What I find interesting is that perhaps the verses that
that I have most really enjoyed diving into and really
taking them apart. I like to put take things apart
and put them back together, not physical things, but people
and in literature and the Bible. And I find that
with Paul's letters, h I do that. And I didn't
(11:22):
know until later that these were letters, that this was
a sort of an untraditional, unconventional portion of the Bible.
How do you think that affects the books that by
that that that are attributed to Paul because they were
a letter formed from prison to those those peoples, those churches.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Well, I think that that if we if we first
remember that they're letters, you'll interpret them correctly. Right we
go in. Let's take for example, Paul's letter to Timothy.
He writes two letters to Timothy, and he's going to
say things. He's going to tell Timothy to do things
like look out for Alexander the coppers myth. Well, I'm
(12:02):
not worried about Alexander the coppers myth, you know. And
and he says, bring me my cloak imparchments before winter.
And I'm not trying to find Paul before winter. I'm
not praying for Paul, you know, Paul's you know, but
he tells Timothy to do other things that are very
applicable to today. And so when we remember that Paul,
(12:24):
for example, was writing to the Romans, the Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians,
whoever was to address specific issues that had arisen in
that congregation, or with by Layman, or or with with Timothy,
or in the church at Thesalonaika, then we can read
them and it makes sense. We see what he was
doing back then, and we can draw implications for today
(12:45):
because we're still in the church today, and the you know,
the church still has its struggles, and the world is
still the world. Nothing is new, as Solomon would say
in Ecclesiastices, there's nothing new under the sun. It's the
same issues. People are still pursuing wealth and a big
name and fame and fortune and that then they die
(13:08):
and it's all vanity.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
David Klinger is our guest. David, let me ask you,
you know, having gone to law school and then getting
another law degree. When people ask me questions about, you know,
how do I learn more about the law, I often
say that you have to begin by unlearning many things
that were told to you that are not true because
they create blocks, and how you understand, you know, how
(13:33):
our legal code is written, and how how our legal
code is interpreted and applied and precedent and case law
and all these sorts of things. What are some things
that you think corrupt our general understanding of the Bible
in a conventional sense that you have to undo to
go in with a properly open mind.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Boy, what a great question. I think that our denominationalism
doesn't help. Our church history doesn't help, Our Americanism doesn't help.
And I'm you know, look, I I'm profoundly proud of
our our our American history and so many of the
(14:12):
things there. But but when we equate being American with
being Christian or or being whatever it is with being Christian,
that's that's not helpful. And so, as you said, so
many of the things that we have learned, not only
you know, limit us from understanding the Bible.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
David Klingler is our guest. We had a momentary glitch.
The devil was was working on our phone lines and
took it down for a moment. But yeah, throughout his career,
he has uh, he has been perseverant and resilient if
if nothing else, and and he will continue to be
just a second before we go to a quick break,
and then we'll move on to the next thing. What
(14:57):
do you love most about what you do now in
addition to being a dad and a husband and a friend.
But this, I don't want to call it a job
per se. But what do you love most about it.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
To watch people understand the Bible. It was the thing
that drove me. And in the Bible doesn't need to
be hard to understand. The churches don't need to be
set against each other. We need to all be pursuing truth.
And and so when we understand the Bible becomes so simple.
It's fun to watch students. They're you know, the kind
(15:31):
of that aha moment, they get it, they understand it,
and and it's just fun to watch. And then they
you watch how it changes their lives and they devote
themselves to very different things than they had before. And
and so that's what I love, That's what I do.
I'm thankful for the ministry of teaching the Bible. So
many great people behind that thing and make that go.
(15:53):
I just say on the in the microphone, what I
teach at at the seminary. But but just so thankful
to be a part of that, and that the Lord
can use any of us. You know, you don't have
to be a retired football player with a big name.
The Lord has always used the smaller.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Now that's a talent and it's good that you do
use it. David Clingley Clinger is our guest more than comm.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
And you listen to the Michael Berry Show.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Not David Cleanler is our guest football star turned PhD
in theology. Now, teach me the Bible dot com. There's
a podcast, teach me the Bible dot Com. I noticed,
let's talk about your team. I notice you've got some folks.
(16:45):
See if I can pull the page back up here,
You've got some folks that are associated with churches who
are part of I guess this podcast team. Tell me
what this entity looks like that you are a part of.
It looks like you.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Run it's it's actually just a very small group of
very committed people. We Our budget is next to nothing.
And and you know you don't need a lot of
money to do ministry. Uh, you need just some passion
and care for people. And and so there's still Porter
phil Is h He's our worship pastor at Champion Fellowship,
(17:23):
Tim Webb. Tim's the the lead pastor at the church,
and just a wonderful guy. We've become just steadfast friends
and and just such a faithful guy. Alex Wolfe is
actually one of our PhD students and also a pastor
at the church. And uh. And then there's several men
who I've trained through the PhD program who are pastoring
(17:46):
at other churches and and we all just have a
passion to help the people of God understand the Word
of God. And that's what brought us together and uh,
and so that's what we're what we're doing, will teach
me the Bible.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
And when people engage in this and they want to
understand the Word of God, how do you think that
changes them? How? What is their reaction after this? What
do you hear back?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Mostly just you know, thank you, it makes sense now.
And and I don't want any of the focus. I
always tell our students. I tell our you know, with
the seminary, we're training pastors, we're training professors, And say
if anyone ever comes up to you after you've taught
or preached and say, boy, you're such a gifted speaker,
(18:34):
such a gifted communication or or you know, communicator or whatever.
You're doing something that's bringing attention to you. And our
job is to bring attention to the Lord and to
his word. And so that's really it when they come
up and they say, man, I really thought that I
(18:55):
knew Jesus, but this just is is just it's so
eye opening. It's you know, thank you. That's that makes
it worth everything we're doing.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
You have a Bible conference coming up March fourteenth and fifteenth,
and I'm reading about it and it's to teach me
the Bible Conference twenty twenty five and it says, this
was an interesting line.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I thought.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Our mission is to help the people of God understand
the Word of God. And when you leave this conference,
you will be able to open your Bible and understand
all the epistles. Is there a particular focus on the epistles?
Why do you mention that?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Well, last year we did the story of the scriptures,
and so what we're doing, we're always just taking a
section of scripture and say let's let's understand what this
section of scripture is doing. And we're going to dive
into six specific epistles three, Pauline epistles three, what we
call general epistles. And so we'll be doing Ephesians and
(19:55):
Philippians James First, John First, p lead missing the missing
one of them. I don't remember which ones. They're all
running together. I think Philippians, Uhphesians of Philippians and uh,
one more. Well, we'll teach six of them. But but
(20:15):
helping people understand, Oh, this makes sense. I know what
he's saying now, and it kind of demystifies in some
in some way what Paul's saying. Paul just writing to
historic group of people to address a historic situation. Uh
and uh, and they go, wait a second, this makes sense.
(20:36):
I understand this now, and that's our goal. That that
is simply our goal. Uh, in everything that we're doing.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
What does your personal Bible study look like? Do you
have a time of day, do you have a place
where you go? Do you have and I know you
do to teach me the Bible in a year, which
I know a lot of people have done. If not,
your course of courses and programs like that, you know,
the consistency seems to help folks, But what is your
personal Bible still? Your personal nourishment.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I'm you know, I tell people all the time, I
can't believe that I get to do what I do.
Basically my day involves waking up or reflecting on what
I was thinking about all night. You know how it
is things wake you up in the middle of the night. Recently,
I was trying to think through first Thessalonians five ten
(21:30):
in the middle of the night, trying to figure out
what's going on there. And so I get to wake
up and inter just reflect on the Bible all day,
I do, you know, So I use the Greek Hebrew
Aramaic text. There's a few sections of Aramic in the Bible,
and just try to understand it better so that it
(21:52):
changes my life and hopefully changes the lives of those
around us. And boy, we need more people handle the
word of God will to lead the church. Were in
desperate need. We are losing pastors. Not many folks are
(22:13):
going into the ministry. Why is that, Well, it's a
great question. I think that there's not a lot of
glitz to it. It's a hard job. People are hard
to deal with sometimes. I think one statistic I heard
was that about ten percent of our students are our
graduates that go into the full time ministry are still
(22:35):
in ministry within five to seven years.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
And well, you know as well as I do, that
pastoring a church, tending a flock is a very different
undertaking and a more difficult undertaking than what might be
more considerate, you know, in the for a Joel Ostin preaching,
whether that be on TV or in a megachurch or
whatever it is, the concept of preaching is only one
(22:58):
aspect of pastoring. Pastoring is is is is tough because
you are really as tending a flock. And that's that's
where the heavy lifting comes in in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Oh sure, yeah, and you can't. You can't pastor the multitudes.
Doctor Swindall, Chuck Swindall, famous Bible teacher. I remember one
day I was talking with him, and and there's so
many I've just benefited from so many profoundly wise people.
But one day I was talking to him and I
just thanked him for his giant impact that he's had
(23:32):
in ministry. And I was thinking about, you know, his
insight for living ministry and radio ministry. And he stopped
me and he said, let me explain something to you,
you know, kind of like when you you you take
the little kid in your und your arms. You let
me explain something to you very clearly, so you don't
misunderstand this. He said, you can impress from afar, but
you can only impact up cloth. And I think about
(23:55):
that a lot. That uh that that we've we live
in this world then, and you know, podcasts do it
and video does it, and you can influence a lot
of people, But the amount of time that you can
actually spend to get to know someone and to to
to get deep into their life, and it's not many.
And and that's the that's the hard part of pastoring.
(24:18):
We were so driven by this megachurch model where we
all want to have the giant, biggest churches and the
biggest ministries and you know, the podcast that reaches millions
and all that stuff. But you know, but in doing that,
you pass over the people that are right in front
of you, uh that that you should be caring for
and you're not. And and so pastoring is hard work
(24:40):
and and and it's not often met with the all
the praises of the world, and even the praises within
the church. Often it's met with criticism. And so it's
it's hard work. But but it's very rewarding.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
One more, one more segment with David Klingler. It's from
the King of Ding and this other guy, Michael Barry.
This is the kind of guy you'd like to smack
an as. I found out recently that David Klingler in
a Where Are They Now? Episode VH one style, who
(25:17):
was the star quarterback when I was at the University
of Houston for the Cougars.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
He was.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Nationally celebrated, a finalist for the Heisman Trophy, beloved following
Andrea Ware and numbers even more impressive than Andrea and
Andre to be the first data Heyday of UH football.
And I found out that he went to theological seminary,
got his PhD. And now he's teaching in many different
(25:46):
roles and one of them is sort of a to
the general public, and it's called Teach Me Thebible dot Com.
You can find them online and a podcast, so if
you would like to do that, they do learn the
Bible in a year. They have a conference. Come yep,
I noticed, let's talk about the dollars and cents. And
I know people are uncomfortable with that sometimes, but it
is a part of everything we do. It doesn't appear
(26:08):
to me that you're trying to make much, if any
money off of this thing, because I noticed that the
conference schedule, a two day conference bee is a whopping
twenty nine dollars and you have to defray the costs
of all sorts of things to even put that on.
Is that a conscious decision of you know this this
isn't a business enterprise.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yes, yes it is. And again I think that you know,
I want to criticize churches. You know, we do need
somewhere to meet and all that, but for the most part,
ministry takes no money. It takes time. And so you
know when we said, well we need to do a podcast,
(26:51):
well how much does that does that take? It takes
some people who are committed in some time. It takes
a computer, It takes a couple of of microphones and
and focus to sit in front of them. And so really,
you know, we can do this, this whole ministry for
a very very small amount, and I've covered that expense,
(27:11):
and and I love what Paul says. It seems like
we keep going back to the Corinthians, but you know
that Paul works in their midst and and wasn't a
burden to any of them. And the reason why he
does this is so that none of them could say
that his motivation was financial. His motivation was for money.
Everything that he was doing was for the building up
(27:35):
of the Body of Christ and to benefit the church.
And so our mission. So often mission statements of an
organization are are stated mission, but they're not the real mission.
Our real mission is to help the people of God
understand the Word of God. And that's it, and and
we want to do it. It is a labor of love,
and we want to do it for as cheaply as
(27:57):
we can to benefit the church. Let's so we don't
you know, if you want to give, great but you
know we don't need your gifts.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Let's talk about your life and how you arrived where
you are. And I'm not building you up as perfect
I know you will. You would not be comfortable with that.
It's inconsistent with your teachings. But let's talk about decision
making in your life. Obviously, you've made some decisions that
I would consider to be very good decisions. To put
(28:31):
yourself the ledger of your decision making would be better
than bad. To put yourself in a position where you're
proud of your kids, You're happy in your marriage. Your
skills and talents are being put to good use toward
your faith through your ministry. When you talk to young athletes,
and you've done that over the years, and you talk
to young people, what advice Looking back now where you
(28:53):
are in your fifties, do you say, I wish I'd
learned this, wish somebody told me this, or these are
some things that really seem to insonate with young people.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I was so thankful Jack Party, you know, back at
our time at u of H. He was a man
of such unbelievable character. So many great men poured into
my life, and I really took what they said to
hart and and it troubles me today that we've kind
of turned our whole culture, specifically sports culture into free agency.
(29:30):
You know, everybody is is a free agent. They're all
working for themselves. We're seeing this in college football, certainly,
it's been around the NFL for you, even in the
youth sports. You know, you got you got six year
olds play on select teams, and you know they act
as a free agent. And in somewhere in our culture,
(29:51):
we need to learn the concept of individual sacrifice for
mutual benefit. That there is a mission, and nothing worth
achieving is going to be achieved by yourself. It's going
to take a bunch of people, uh single minded in
the mission to try to achieve something greater than yourself.
(30:12):
And and frankly, I think that's that's why Nick Saban,
I think has left college football. I think that that,
you know, increasingly it's become difficult in our culture to
find use in these places, and so we're not interested
in personal sacrifice, We're not interested in suffering. We're not
(30:33):
interested in doing anything that's hard, and so we suffer
because of it. That everything that's great that you want
to achieve in life is going to cause you to suffer.
It's going to be hard, and it's going to take
the help of others to do it. And and so
I'm so proud of my two boys, you know, coaching.
You know, I'm not so sure that pastoring is the
(30:55):
most influential thing in our culture anymore. Maybe at one
time it was sports. I think is probably right at
the top of the list now And at least in
my life, my coaches had the biggest influence on me.
And so I'm so proud of what they're doing. Uh,
they're they have devoted their their lives not to teaching
(31:16):
football x's and o's or bun and shoot or you know,
some offense or but teaching character. They're They're in the
character education business, absolutely, and I'm really proud of them
for that.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
You know, in my life, I think of the people
who have had the biggest influence, and I still have
people like this. You know, it was obviously my parents,
but it was coaches and teachers and administrators and youth
pastors and pastors and and and more of those were
outside the church than in. And I think if everybody
(31:51):
understands the role you have in raising young people, and
we see the results when we don't do our job.
And maybe that's an avuncular role because you know, our
brother or sister's kid needs somebody to talk to on occasion,
or maybe it's a grandparent who steps in on occasion.
And I think a lot of people have been afraid
to do that. And we could spend a lot of
time on why that is. I'm going to ask you
(32:13):
as we part, to give me one quick memory of
play and ball at the University of Houston. That is
one you will always fondly remember a moment, a game something.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
There was a play and I've talked to Andre about this.
It's his favorite play as well. You know, when we
were there together, we were there at the same time.
We were both fierce competitors, but through that became great friends,
lifelong friends. And so we were playing the University of Texas.
(32:46):
They played Manda Man almost every play, and so John Jenkins,
the offensive coordinator, he put in this play where Andre
was going to you know, as we were always at
the line calling the plays, and so he would kind
of wander out to the right and call to play
to the right, and then he would go to the
left and he would yell out to the receivers at
the left and and as he went out to the left,
(33:08):
we'd snap the ball and I would My job was
to sneak in with the crowd and replace Chuck Witherspoon,
who was the running back. And so I'm back there
in the shotgun and I catched this snap. And you know,
we were pretty aware that Andre had a pretty good
chance to win the Heisman that year, and he was
thrown for all kinds of of yards and touchdowns, and
(33:29):
if he could catch a touchdown pass. That would just
be great. And well, I was as nervous as I
could be, because you know, I had to throw this thing,
and so off he goes down the sideline and sure
enough he's wide open and uh, thankfully through a decent ball.
If it'd been a little better, he to score it.
But but but he caught that thing going down the sideline.
(33:49):
It's just a you know, just a great memory that
I that I had.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
And thank you for sharing that, David Klingler. Thank you
for sharing a few hours of your time with us,
and thank you for your ministry
David Kleanler as our guest. He resides in the Greater
Brinham area. Now. His son's the head football coach at
Somerville High School. His other son is the offensive coordinator there.
You probably remember the name if you've been in Houston
or followed football for very long. He was a star
quarterback at the University of Houston in the early nineties.
(00:21):
He was third runner up for second runner up for
the Heisman Trophy. First round draft pick of the Cincinnati
Bengals ended up going to the Raiders, but his elbow
was blown by then and came home and decided he
really wanted to learn the Bible, and now he teaches
others and teaches people how to learn the Bible. He,
(00:41):
of course, in the meantime, went and got a PhD
at Seminary in theology. David, let me ask you a question.
You were talking earlier about theological studies and the types
of people who go there. I have heard it said
of people I've known who were Theologians that went to
Harvard School that there aren't actually any Christians there, that
(01:04):
it's as if it's sort of like you go to
a literature school and there's no writers there that there
are people who reduce it to something that does not
involve any faith. Do you find that to be the case.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes, well, yeah, we have a in our desire to
make the Bible more acceptable because of what we were
talking in the last session that you know, the Bible
calls to suffering. You know, James is going to say,
(01:37):
considered all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials
knowing that the testing of your faith works for endurance,
and let endurance have it. That's not fun talk right suffering,
you know. And so in our desire to make the
Bible more appealing, less offensive, more tolerant, more all accepting,
(02:00):
we water down the Gospel, We water down the teachings
of the Bible. And it's all around us today. But
it's not just today. That's always been the case, Paul,
from the very beginning. The all of the letters that
we see in the New Testament. We're actually in we're
having a conference coming up in March fourteenth and fifteenth
(02:22):
where we're going to talk about the letters. But all
of the letters in the Bible, whether it's Romans or
Ephesians or Galatians or whatever it is, these were letters
written to people or to the church to address theological
issues that have come up that are causing people to change,
to compromise. And so every school Princeton, Harvard, so many
(02:47):
of our great schools, Yale, they all began as theological institutions.
And unfortunately we tend to wander from the faith. And
it wouldn't surprise me if even schools that have historically
been really good Dallas Seminary or you know, all of
(03:07):
these denominations, we're seeing it. They all wander from the
faith and compromise, often under the guise of being tolerant
and more loving. But what happens is we we change
the definitions right of these words. And you see it
even in constitutional law and government and these types of things,
that if you're allowed to change the definitions, you can
(03:30):
make it mean whenever you want right. And so I
see it's.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
The ultimate O right. That's what New Speakers about. He
gave us the tools to understand this, that words have meaning,
and that if you need to change concepts, you simply
change words and change meaning. And it's very powerful. You
made a reference to the church, and I'm never you know,
people like to paint with a broad brush and refer
(03:53):
to the black community as if all black people live
in a certain neighborhood and make the same amount of
money and do the same things. And it's just not true.
And so I'm going to paint with a bit of
a broadbrush. But when you look at the church today,
organized Christianity in the form most of us would identify with,
where do you see that as compared to where it was?
(04:16):
And what would you most like to change?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I tell you know, when we walk down that that's
a great question. We walk down the trail of church history.
One of the things that we're doing at our church,
Champion Fellowship and Brenham is we are I'm helping us
think through the reality the distinction between the church or
a church. A church is simply a gathering of believers,
(04:42):
and so you know, and so once a you know,
a group of believers gathers, we can call it a church.
But the Body of Christ, the Body of Christ, is
all believers in all places, in all times. At the
end of the story, people from every nation, every tribe,
every people, every tongue. This is the Body of Christ.
And we have so divided the Body of Christ. We've
(05:04):
so you know, we have factions Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic, Baptist, UH.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I prefer to just refer to it as Southern Baptist.
And the non Christians, well, that's.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, that we're the only ones who are who are saved, right,
We're the only ones who are in And and I
love what Paul says to the Corinthians. You know that
this is UH, you know, very early one of UH,
one of the early letters that Paul writes. And there's
divisions in the church at Corinth And and they've divided
over following. Some of them are following Paul, some of
(05:46):
them are following Apollos, who's the pastor of the church there.
Some of them are following Peter, who's the leader of
the of the Jews and the church in Jerusalem. And
and I love what he says. He says, you know,
I hear that there are divisions among you. Some are
saying I'm of Paul, or I'm of Apollos, or I'm
of Peter or of Christ. And then he asks this question,
(06:08):
was Paul crucified for you or were you baptized in
the name of Paul. I thank god I didn't baptize
any of you, so none of you could say you
were baptized in My name right. And then he goes
on to say, and this is where the it kind
of makes us, you know, Baptists uncomfortable. He says, the
Lord didn't send me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel.
(06:29):
And so he goes on to explain in this whole
letter that everything he does is to build up the
body of Christ. And so we do great error when
we fail to recognize that all believers in all places,
in all times, in all churches, and none of us
have the you know, we're all heretics in the sense
(06:52):
that we all believe false doctrine. We just don't know
what the false doctrine is that we're believing. And so
that's what we've got to go back to the scripture
all of the time to make sure that what we're
saying is So we've got to be bereans. And I
think that you've got to have a lot of humility
when you come to the scriptures and put yourself under
(07:13):
the authority of the text, not under the authority of
a teacher, a Bible teacher, a ministry, even if it's
teached me the Bible or whatever it is. We all
have to answer to the Lord. And so so you know,
the church has always been in some ways a mess.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Because it's human.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Church is the bride of Christ, sure, and the church
is the bride of Christ, and He gave himself for
the Church. And so so one of the.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Things that David Cuiller is our guest, I'm going to
ask him in his teach Me the Bible dot com
and teach Me the Bible podcast sort of way to
teach me about one of my favorite people in the Bible,
and that is the apostle part which she said in Spinish.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I just said it's the judge in Spanish, because I
feel that she forgets that we're Hispanic and that we're
the people that she targeted for.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
A book The Michael Verie Show. David Klingler is our guest.
You may remember him as a football star U He
went on to get his pH d in theological studies
with an expertise in the Old Testament. You can go
to teach Me the Bible dot com in a very
accessible way to learn about the Bible. He also has
a podcast those of you always looking for a fun
(08:30):
new podcast, and he's our guest of David Klingler, if
you would teach me the Bible about Paul. Saul of Tarsus.
One of my favorite, one of my favorite people in
all the Bible is Uh Saul of Tarsus because of well,
for many reasons. But anyway, teach me the Bible about Paul.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Uh. What an You know, Paul was a he's a pharisee.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
You know, he kind of lists his credentials in Philippians
chapter three. You know, he was of the tribe of Benjamin,
circumcised on the eighth day. He was steadfast in his
holding to Judaism, persecution of the church. And uh. And
so the thing about Paul is he knew the Old
Testament scriptures stone cold. I mean, he knew, he knew
(09:21):
the Bible. He knew the Old Testament scriptures. And when
he comes to Christ, it just changes everything for him.
Uh and uh. And so he wholly devotes himself to
the Lord. And and we were talking in the last
segment about the Corinthians and and and everything that he
does is for the building up of the body of Christ.
(09:42):
He explains that we are members of one another. And
I love how he how he sets that out that
John says the same thing. It's all bringing a little
bit of John here in first John. But how can
you say that you love Christ and you haven't seen Uh,
none of us have seen Jesus. None of us have
heard his voice. We talk about, you know, we use
(10:05):
that kind of language. You know, I've heard the voice,
but you know, but how would you know? Right, Paul
was going to say, Look, I don't care if an
angel appears in you know, in the room. If if
someone appears to you, if an angel appears to you
and presents a gospel different than that which I preached,
let him be a cursed And you know. And so
if we haven't seen Jesus, don't tell me about your
(10:27):
love of Jesus. Show me your love of Jesus through
your love of his body. That is the Church, the
body of Christ. And so we need to be about
building up the body of christis everything he does. He
sacrifices his whole life, all of his credentials, to build
up the Body of Christ, to take the gospel to
the gentiles. And and boy, he is bold, I mean
(10:49):
unbelievably bold, and ultimately goes to his death because of it.
Just an amazing character.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
What I find interesting is that perhaps the verses that
that I have most really enjoyed diving into and really
taking them apart. I like to put take things apart
and put them back together, not physical things, but people
and in literature and the Bible. And I find that
with Paul's letters, h I do that. And I didn't
(11:22):
know until later that these were letters, that this was
a sort of an untraditional, unconventional portion of the Bible.
How do you think that affects the books that by
that that that are attributed to Paul because they were
a letter formed from prison to those those peoples, those churches.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Well, I think that that if we if we first
remember that they're letters, you'll interpret them correctly. Right we
go in. Let's take for example, Paul's letter to Timothy.
He writes two letters to Timothy, and he's going to
say things. He's going to tell Timothy to do things
like look out for Alexander the coppers myth. Well, I'm
(12:02):
not worried about Alexander the coppers myth, you know. And
and he says, bring me my cloak imparchments before winter.
And I'm not trying to find Paul before winter. I'm
not praying for Paul, you know, Paul's you know, but
he tells Timothy to do other things that are very
applicable to today. And so when we remember that Paul,
(12:24):
for example, was writing to the Romans, the Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians,
whoever was to address specific issues that had arisen in
that congregation, or with by Layman, or or with with Timothy,
or in the church at Thesalonaika, then we can read
them and it makes sense. We see what he was
doing back then, and we can draw implications for today
(12:45):
because we're still in the church today, and the you know,
the church still has its struggles, and the world is
still the world. Nothing is new, as Solomon would say
in Ecclesiastices, there's nothing new under the sun. It's the
same issues. People are still pursuing wealth and a big
name and fame and fortune and that then they die
(13:08):
and it's all vanity.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
David Klinger is our guest. David, let me ask you,
you know, having gone to law school and then getting
another law degree. When people ask me questions about, you know,
how do I learn more about the law, I often
say that you have to begin by unlearning many things
that were told to you that are not true because
they create blocks, and how you understand, you know, how
(13:33):
our legal code is written, and how how our legal
code is interpreted and applied and precedent and case law
and all these sorts of things. What are some things
that you think corrupt our general understanding of the Bible
in a conventional sense that you have to undo to
go in with a properly open mind.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Boy, what a great question. I think that our denominationalism
doesn't help. Our church history doesn't help, Our Americanism doesn't help.
And I'm you know, look, I I'm profoundly proud of
our our our American history and so many of the
(14:12):
things there. But but when we equate being American with
being Christian or or being whatever it is with being Christian,
that's that's not helpful. And so, as you said, so
many of the things that we have learned, not only
you know, limit us from understanding the Bible.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
David Klingler is our guest. We had a momentary glitch.
The devil was was working on our phone lines and
took it down for a moment. But yeah, throughout his career,
he has uh, he has been perseverant and resilient if
if nothing else, and and he will continue to be
just a second before we go to a quick break,
and then we'll move on to the next thing. What
(14:57):
do you love most about what you do now in
addition to being a dad and a husband and a friend.
But this, I don't want to call it a job
per se. But what do you love most about it.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
To watch people understand the Bible. It was the thing
that drove me. And in the Bible doesn't need to
be hard to understand. The churches don't need to be
set against each other. We need to all be pursuing truth.
And and so when we understand the Bible becomes so simple.
It's fun to watch students. They're you know, the kind
(15:31):
of that aha moment, they get it, they understand it,
and and it's just fun to watch. And then they
you watch how it changes their lives and they devote
themselves to very different things than they had before. And
and so that's what I love, That's what I do.
I'm thankful for the ministry of teaching the Bible. So
many great people behind that thing and make that go.
(15:53):
I just say on the in the microphone, what I
teach at at the seminary. But but just so thankful
to be a part of that, and that the Lord
can use any of us. You know, you don't have
to be a retired football player with a big name.
The Lord has always used the smaller.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Now that's a talent and it's good that you do
use it. David Clingley Clinger is our guest more than comm.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
And you listen to the Michael Berry Show.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Not David Cleanler is our guest football star turned PhD
in theology. Now, teach me the Bible dot com. There's
a podcast, teach me the Bible dot Com. I noticed,
let's talk about your team. I notice you've got some folks.
(16:45):
See if I can pull the page back up here,
You've got some folks that are associated with churches who
are part of I guess this podcast team. Tell me
what this entity looks like that you are a part of.
It looks like you.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Run it's it's actually just a very small group of
very committed people. We Our budget is next to nothing.
And and you know you don't need a lot of
money to do ministry. Uh, you need just some passion
and care for people. And and so there's still Porter
phil Is h He's our worship pastor at Champion Fellowship,
(17:23):
Tim Webb. Tim's the the lead pastor at the church,
and just a wonderful guy. We've become just steadfast friends
and and just such a faithful guy. Alex Wolfe is
actually one of our PhD students and also a pastor
at the church. And uh. And then there's several men
who I've trained through the PhD program who are pastoring
(17:46):
at other churches and and we all just have a
passion to help the people of God understand the Word
of God. And that's what brought us together and uh,
and so that's what we're what we're doing, will teach
me the Bible.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
And when people engage in this and they want to
understand the Word of God, how do you think that
changes them? How? What is their reaction after this? What
do you hear back?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Mostly just you know, thank you, it makes sense now.
And and I don't want any of the focus. I
always tell our students. I tell our you know, with
the seminary, we're training pastors, we're training professors, And say
if anyone ever comes up to you after you've taught
or preached and say, boy, you're such a gifted speaker,
(18:34):
such a gifted communication or or you know, communicator or whatever.
You're doing something that's bringing attention to you. And our
job is to bring attention to the Lord and to
his word. And so that's really it when they come
up and they say, man, I really thought that I
(18:55):
knew Jesus, but this just is is just it's so
eye opening. It's you know, thank you. That's that makes
it worth everything we're doing.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
You have a Bible conference coming up March fourteenth and fifteenth,
and I'm reading about it and it's to teach me
the Bible Conference twenty twenty five and it says, this
was an interesting line.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I thought.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Our mission is to help the people of God understand
the Word of God. And when you leave this conference,
you will be able to open your Bible and understand
all the epistles. Is there a particular focus on the epistles?
Why do you mention that?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Well, last year we did the story of the scriptures,
and so what we're doing, we're always just taking a
section of scripture and say let's let's understand what this
section of scripture is doing. And we're going to dive
into six specific epistles three, Pauline epistles three, what we
call general epistles. And so we'll be doing Ephesians and
(19:55):
Philippians James First, John First, p lead missing the missing
one of them. I don't remember which ones. They're all
running together. I think Philippians, Uhphesians of Philippians and uh,
one more. Well, we'll teach six of them. But but
(20:15):
helping people understand, Oh, this makes sense. I know what
he's saying now, and it kind of demystifies in some
in some way what Paul's saying. Paul just writing to
historic group of people to address a historic situation. Uh
and uh, and they go, wait a second, this makes sense.
(20:36):
I understand this now, and that's our goal. That that
is simply our goal. Uh, in everything that we're doing.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
What does your personal Bible study look like? Do you
have a time of day, do you have a place
where you go? Do you have and I know you
do to teach me the Bible in a year, which
I know a lot of people have done. If not,
your course of courses and programs like that, you know,
the consistency seems to help folks, But what is your
personal Bible still? Your personal nourishment.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I'm you know, I tell people all the time, I
can't believe that I get to do what I do.
Basically my day involves waking up or reflecting on what
I was thinking about all night. You know how it
is things wake you up in the middle of the night. Recently,
I was trying to think through first Thessalonians five ten
(21:30):
in the middle of the night, trying to figure out
what's going on there. And so I get to wake
up and inter just reflect on the Bible all day,
I do, you know, So I use the Greek Hebrew
Aramaic text. There's a few sections of Aramic in the Bible,
and just try to understand it better so that it
(21:52):
changes my life and hopefully changes the lives of those
around us. And boy, we need more people handle the
word of God will to lead the church. Were in
desperate need. We are losing pastors. Not many folks are
(22:13):
going into the ministry. Why is that, Well, it's a
great question. I think that there's not a lot of
glitz to it. It's a hard job. People are hard
to deal with sometimes. I think one statistic I heard
was that about ten percent of our students are our
graduates that go into the full time ministry are still
(22:35):
in ministry within five to seven years.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
And well, you know as well as I do, that
pastoring a church, tending a flock is a very different
undertaking and a more difficult undertaking than what might be
more considerate, you know, in the for a Joel Ostin preaching,
whether that be on TV or in a megachurch or
whatever it is, the concept of preaching is only one
(22:58):
aspect of pastoring. Pastoring is is is is tough because
you are really as tending a flock. And that's that's
where the heavy lifting comes in in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Oh sure, yeah, and you can't. You can't pastor the multitudes.
Doctor Swindall, Chuck Swindall, famous Bible teacher. I remember one
day I was talking with him, and and there's so
many I've just benefited from so many profoundly wise people.
But one day I was talking to him and I
just thanked him for his giant impact that he's had
(23:32):
in ministry. And I was thinking about, you know, his
insight for living ministry and radio ministry. And he stopped
me and he said, let me explain something to you,
you know, kind of like when you you you take
the little kid in your und your arms. You let
me explain something to you very clearly, so you don't
misunderstand this. He said, you can impress from afar, but
you can only impact up cloth. And I think about
(23:55):
that a lot. That uh that that we've we live
in this world then, and you know, podcasts do it
and video does it, and you can influence a lot
of people, But the amount of time that you can
actually spend to get to know someone and to to
to get deep into their life, and it's not many.
And and that's the that's the hard part of pastoring.
(24:18):
We were so driven by this megachurch model where we
all want to have the giant, biggest churches and the
biggest ministries and you know, the podcast that reaches millions
and all that stuff. But you know, but in doing that,
you pass over the people that are right in front
of you, uh that that you should be caring for
and you're not. And and so pastoring is hard work
(24:40):
and and and it's not often met with the all
the praises of the world, and even the praises within
the church. Often it's met with criticism. And so it's
it's hard work. But but it's very rewarding.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
One more, one more segment with David Klingler. It's from
the King of Ding and this other guy, Michael Barry.
This is the kind of guy you'd like to smack
an as. I found out recently that David Klingler in
a Where Are They Now? Episode VH one style, who
(25:17):
was the star quarterback when I was at the University
of Houston for the Cougars.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
He was.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Nationally celebrated, a finalist for the Heisman Trophy, beloved following
Andrea Ware and numbers even more impressive than Andrea and
Andre to be the first data Heyday of UH football.
And I found out that he went to theological seminary,
got his PhD. And now he's teaching in many different
(25:46):
roles and one of them is sort of a to
the general public, and it's called Teach Me Thebible dot Com.
You can find them online and a podcast, so if
you would like to do that, they do learn the
Bible in a year. They have a conference. Come yep,
I noticed, let's talk about the dollars and cents. And
I know people are uncomfortable with that sometimes, but it
is a part of everything we do. It doesn't appear
(26:08):
to me that you're trying to make much, if any
money off of this thing, because I noticed that the
conference schedule, a two day conference bee is a whopping
twenty nine dollars and you have to defray the costs
of all sorts of things to even put that on.
Is that a conscious decision of you know this this
isn't a business enterprise.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yes, yes it is. And again I think that you know,
I want to criticize churches. You know, we do need
somewhere to meet and all that, but for the most part,
ministry takes no money. It takes time. And so you
know when we said, well we need to do a podcast,
(26:51):
well how much does that does that take? It takes
some people who are committed in some time. It takes
a computer, It takes a couple of of microphones and
and focus to sit in front of them. And so really,
you know, we can do this, this whole ministry for
a very very small amount, and I've covered that expense,
(27:11):
and and I love what Paul says. It seems like
we keep going back to the Corinthians, but you know
that Paul works in their midst and and wasn't a
burden to any of them. And the reason why he
does this is so that none of them could say
that his motivation was financial. His motivation was for money.
Everything that he was doing was for the building up
(27:35):
of the Body of Christ and to benefit the church.
And so our mission. So often mission statements of an
organization are are stated mission, but they're not the real mission.
Our real mission is to help the people of God
understand the Word of God. And that's it, and and
we want to do it. It is a labor of love,
and we want to do it for as cheaply as
(27:57):
we can to benefit the church. Let's so we don't
you know, if you want to give, great but you
know we don't need your gifts.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Let's talk about your life and how you arrived where
you are. And I'm not building you up as perfect
I know you will. You would not be comfortable with that.
It's inconsistent with your teachings. But let's talk about decision
making in your life. Obviously, you've made some decisions that
I would consider to be very good decisions. To put
(28:31):
yourself the ledger of your decision making would be better
than bad. To put yourself in a position where you're
proud of your kids, You're happy in your marriage. Your
skills and talents are being put to good use toward
your faith through your ministry. When you talk to young athletes,
and you've done that over the years, and you talk
to young people, what advice Looking back now where you
(28:53):
are in your fifties, do you say, I wish I'd
learned this, wish somebody told me this, or these are
some things that really seem to insonate with young people.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I was so thankful Jack Party, you know, back at
our time at u of H. He was a man
of such unbelievable character. So many great men poured into
my life, and I really took what they said to
hart and and it troubles me today that we've kind
of turned our whole culture, specifically sports culture into free agency.
(29:30):
You know, everybody is is a free agent. They're all
working for themselves. We're seeing this in college football, certainly,
it's been around the NFL for you, even in the
youth sports. You know, you got you got six year
olds play on select teams, and you know they act
as a free agent. And in somewhere in our culture,
(29:51):
we need to learn the concept of individual sacrifice for
mutual benefit. That there is a mission, and nothing worth
achieving is going to be achieved by yourself. It's going
to take a bunch of people, uh single minded in
the mission to try to achieve something greater than yourself.
(30:12):
And and frankly, I think that's that's why Nick Saban,
I think has left college football. I think that that,
you know, increasingly it's become difficult in our culture to
find use in these places, and so we're not interested
in personal sacrifice, We're not interested in suffering. We're not
(30:33):
interested in doing anything that's hard, and so we suffer
because of it. That everything that's great that you want
to achieve in life is going to cause you to suffer.
It's going to be hard, and it's going to take
the help of others to do it. And and so
I'm so proud of my two boys, you know, coaching.
You know, I'm not so sure that pastoring is the
(30:55):
most influential thing in our culture anymore. Maybe at one
time it was sports. I think is probably right at
the top of the list now And at least in
my life, my coaches had the biggest influence on me.
And so I'm so proud of what they're doing. Uh,
they're they have devoted their their lives not to teaching
(31:16):
football x's and o's or bun and shoot or you know,
some offense or but teaching character. They're They're in the
character education business, absolutely, and I'm really proud of them
for that.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
You know, in my life, I think of the people
who have had the biggest influence, and I still have
people like this. You know, it was obviously my parents,
but it was coaches and teachers and administrators and youth
pastors and pastors and and and more of those were
outside the church than in. And I think if everybody
(31:51):
understands the role you have in raising young people, and
we see the results when we don't do our job.
And maybe that's an avuncular role because you know, our
brother or sister's kid needs somebody to talk to on occasion,
or maybe it's a grandparent who steps in on occasion.
And I think a lot of people have been afraid
to do that. And we could spend a lot of
time on why that is. I'm going to ask you
(32:13):
as we part, to give me one quick memory of
play and ball at the University of Houston. That is
one you will always fondly remember a moment, a game something.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
There was a play and I've talked to Andre about this.
It's his favorite play as well. You know, when we
were there together, we were there at the same time.
We were both fierce competitors, but through that became great friends,
lifelong friends. And so we were playing the University of Texas.
(32:46):
They played Manda Man almost every play, and so John Jenkins,
the offensive coordinator, he put in this play where Andre
was going to you know, as we were always at
the line calling the plays, and so he would kind
of wander out to the right and call to play
to the right, and then he would go to the
left and he would yell out to the receivers at
the left and and as he went out to the left,
(33:08):
we'd snap the ball and I would My job was
to sneak in with the crowd and replace Chuck Witherspoon,
who was the running back. And so I'm back there
in the shotgun and I catched this snap. And you know,
we were pretty aware that Andre had a pretty good
chance to win the Heisman that year, and he was
thrown for all kinds of of yards and touchdowns, and
(33:29):
if he could catch a touchdown pass. That would just
be great. And well, I was as nervous as I
could be, because you know, I had to throw this thing,
and so off he goes down the sideline and sure
enough he's wide open and uh, thankfully through a decent ball.
If it'd been a little better, he to score it.
But but but he caught that thing going down the sideline.
(33:49):
It's just a you know, just a great memory that
I that I had.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
And thank you for sharing that, David Klingler. Thank you
for sharing a few hours of your time with us,
and thank you for your ministry
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