December 24, 2025 • 33 mins
Michael Berry continues his discussion with David Klingler on breaking down misconceptions about the Bible, the challenges facing today’s church, and the power of clear, faithful teaching.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's that time time, time, time, luck and load.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So Michael Verie Show is on the air.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
David Komler as our guest. He resides in the Greater
Brinham area. Now his sons the head football coach at
Somerville High School. His other son is the offensive coordinator there.
You probably remember the name if you've been in Houston
or followed football for very long. He was a star
quarterback at the University of Houston in the early nineties.
(00:40):
He was third runner up for second runner up for
the Heisman Trophy. First round draft pick of the Cincinnati
Bengals ended up going to the Raiders, but his elbow
was blown by then and came home and decided he
really wanted to learn the Bible, and now he teaches
others and teaches people how to learn well. He of course,
(01:00):
in the meantime, went and got a PhD in at
seminary in theology. David, let me ask you a question
you were talking earlier about theological studies and the types
of people who go there. I have heard it said
of people I've known who were Theologians that went to
Harvard Divinity School that there aren't actually any Christians there
(01:22):
that it's as if it's sort of like you go
to a literature school and there's no writers there, that
there are people who reduce it to something that does
not involve any faith.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Do you find that to be the case?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yes, well, yeah, we have in our desire to make
the Bible more acceptable because of what we were talking
in the last session that you know, the Bible calls
to suffering. You know, James is going to say, considered
(01:56):
all joy in my brethren, when you encounter various trials
knowing that the testing of your faith works for endurance,
and let endurance have it. That's not fun talk right, suffering,
you know. And so in our desire to make the
Bible more appealing, less offensive, more tolerant, more all accepting,
(02:19):
we water down the Gospel, We water down the teachings
of the Bible. And it's all around us today. But
it's not just today. That's always been the case, Paul,
from the very beginning. The all of the letters that
we see in the New Testament, we're actually in our
we're having a conference coming up in March fourteenth and
(02:40):
fifteenth where we're going to talk about the letters, but
all of the letters in the Bible whether it's Romans
or Ephesians or Galatians or whatever it is. These were
letters written to people or to the church to address
theological issues that have come up that are causing people
to change, to compromise. And so every school, Princeton, Harvard,
(03:04):
so many of our great schools, Yale, they all began
as theological institutions. And unfortunately we tend to wander from
the faith. And it wouldn't surprise me if even schools
that have historically been really good Dallas Seminary or you know,
(03:25):
all of these denominations we're seeing it. They all wander
from the faith and compromise, often under the guise of
being tolerant and more loving. But what happens is we
we change the definitions right of these words. And you
see it even in constitutional law and government and these
types of things, that if you're allowed to change the definitions,
(03:47):
you can make it mean whatever you want, right, And
so I.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Say it's the right that that's what new speakers about.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
He gave us the tools to understand this, that that
words have meaning, and that if you need to change
con you simply change words and change meaning. And it's
very powerful. You made a reference to the church. And
I'm never you know, people like to paint with a
broad brush and refer to the black community as if
all black people live in a certain neighborhood and make
(04:15):
the same amount of money and do the same things.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
And it's just not true. And so I'm going to
paint with a bit of a broad brush.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
But when you look at the church today organized Christianity
in the form most of us would identify with, where
do you see that as compared to where it was?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
And what would you most like to change?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I tell you know, when we walk down that that's
a great question when we walk down the trail of
church history. One of the things that we're doing at
our church, Champion Fellowship and Brenham is we are I'm
helping us think through the reality the distinction between the
church or a church. A church is simply a gathering
(04:59):
a believer and so you know, and so once a
you know, a group of believers gathers, we can call
the church. But the Body of Christ, the Body of
Christ is is all believers in all places, in all times.
At the end of the story, people from every nation,
every tribe, every people, every tongue. Uh, this is the
Body of Christ. And we have so divided the Body
(05:21):
of Christ. We've so you know, we have factions Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic, Baptist,
uh I.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Alst Of just referred to it as Southern Baptist and
the non Christians.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Well that's what everybody for me.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, that we're the only ones who are who are saved, right,
We're the only ones who are in And and I
love what Paul says to the Corinthians. You know that
this is uh, you know, very early one of uh,
one of the early letters that Paul writes. And there's
divisions in the church at Corinth And and they divide
over following. Some of them are following Paul, some of
(06:03):
them are following Apollos, who's the pastor of the church there.
Some of them are following Peter, who's the leader of
the of the Jews and the church in Jerusalem. And
I love what he says. He says, you know, I
hear that there are divisions among you. Some are saying
I'm of Paul, or I'm of Apollos, or I'm of
Peter or of Christ. And then he asked this question,
(06:25):
was Paul crucified for you or were you baptized in
the name of Paul. I, Thank god I didn't baptize
any of you, so none of you could say you
were baptized in my name right.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
And then he goes on.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
To say, and this is where it kind of makes us,
you know, Baptists uncomfortable. He says, the Lord didn't send
me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel. And so
he goes on to explain in this whole letter that
everything he does is to build up the body of Christ.
And so we do great error when we fail to
(06:58):
recognize that all believers in all places, in all times,
in all churches, and none of us have the you know,
we're all heretics in the sense that we all believe
false doctrine. We just don't know what the false doctrine
is that we're believing. And so that's what we've got
to go back to the scriptures all of the time
(07:19):
to make sure that what we're saying is So we've
got to be bereans. And I think that you've got
to have a lot of humility when you come to
the scriptures and put yourself under the authority of the text,
not under the authority of a teacher, a Bible teacher,
a ministry, even if it's teached me the Bible or
(07:39):
whatever it is. We all have to answer to the Lord.
And so so you know, the church has always been
in some ways a mess because human church is the
bride of Christ.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Sure, and you know the church is.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
The bride of Christ, and He gave himself for the church.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
And so one of the things David David Kleinler is
our guest, I'm going to ask him in his teach
Me the Bible dot com and Teach Me the Bible
podcast sort of way to teach me about one of
my favorite people.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
In the Bible, and that is the Apostle Paul, to
teach me what she said in Spinish. I just said
it to the judge in Spanish because I feel that
she forgets that we're Hispanic and that we're the people
that she targeted for a vote.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
The Michael Arry Show. David Kleanler is our guest. You
may remember him as a football star.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
He went on to get his PhD in theological studies
with an expertise in the Old Testament. You can go
to teach Me the Bible dot Com in a very
accessible way to learn about the Bible. He also has
a podcast those of you always looking for a fun
new podcast, and he's our guest, David Klingler.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
If you would teach me the Bible about Paul.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Saul of Sarsus, one of my favorite, one of my
favorite people in all the Bible is uh Saul of
Tarsus because of.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Well, for many reasons, but anyway, teach me the Bible
about Paul.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Uh what uh? You know, Paul was a he's a pharisee. Uh.
You know, he kind of lists his credentials in Philippians
chapter three. You know, he was of the tribe of Benjamin,
circumcised on the eighth to day. He was steadfast in
his holding to Judaism, persecution of the church and uh.
(09:30):
And so the thing about Paul is he knew the
Old Testament scriptures stone cold. I mean he knew uh,
he knew the Bible. He knew the Old Testament scriptures.
And when he comes to Christ, it just changes everything
for him. Uh and uh. And so he wholly devotes
himself to the Lord. And and we were talking in
the last segment about the Corinthians and and and everything
(09:53):
that he does is for the building up of the
body of Christ. He explains that we are members of
one another. And I love how he how he sets
that out that John says the same thing. It's all
bring a little bit of John here in first John.
But how can you say that you love Christ and
you haven't seen None of us have seen Jesus, none
(10:14):
of us have heard his voice. We talk about you know,
we use that kind of language. You know, I've heard
the voice. But you know, but how'd you know? Right,
Paul was going to say, Look, I don't care if
an angel appears in you know, in the room. If
if someone appears to you, if an angel appears to
you and presents a gospel different than that which I've preached,
let him be a cursed and you know. And so
(10:36):
if we haven't seen Jesus, don't tell me about your
love of Jesus. Show me your love of Jesus, for
your love of his body. That is the Church, the
body of Christ. And so we need to be about
building up the body of Christ. It's everything he does.
He sacrifices his whole life, all his credentials, to build
up the body of Christ, to take the gospel to
(10:57):
the Gentiles and and boy he is I mean, unbelievably
bold and ultimately goes to his death because of them.
Just an amazing character.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
What what I find interesting is that perhaps the verses
that that I have most really enjoyed diving into it,
really taking them apart. I like to put take things
apart and put them back together, not physical things, but
people and literature and the Bible. And I find that
with Paul's letters, h I do that. And I didn't
(11:33):
know until later that these were letters, that this was
a sort of an untraditional, unconventional portion of the Bible.
How do you think that affects the books that by
that that that are attributed to Paul because they were
a letter formed from prison to those those peoples, those churches.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Well, I think that that if we if we first
remember that they're letters, you'll interpret them correctly. Right we
go in. Let's take for example, Paul's letter to Timothy.
He writes two letters to Timothy, and he's going to
say things. He's going to tell Timothy to do things
like look out for Alexander the Coppers myth. Well, I'm
(12:12):
not worried about Alexander the Coppers myth. You know, and
and he says, bring me my cloak impartments before winner.
And I'm not trying to find Paul before winter. I'm
not praying for Paul, you know, Paul's you know. But
he tells Timothy to do other things that are very
applicable to today. And and so when we remember that Paul,
(12:33):
for example, was writing to the Romans the printin's Galatians Ephesians,
whoever was to address specific issues that had arisen in
that congregation, or with by Layman, or or with with Timothy,
or in the church at Thessalonica, then we can read
them and it makes sense. We see what he was
doing back then, and we can draw implications for today
(12:53):
because we're still in the church today and the you know,
the church still has its struggles in the world is
still the world. Nothing is new, as Solomon would say
in Ecclesiastics, is there's nothing new under the sign. It's
the same issues. People are still pursuing wealth in a
big name and fame and fortune, and then they die
(13:16):
and it's all vanity.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
David Klingler is our guest.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
David, let me ask you, you know, having gone to
law school and then getting another law degree when people
ask me questions about, you know, how do I learn
more about the law. I often say that you have
to begin by unlearning many things that were told to
you that are not true because they create blocks. And
how you understand, you know, how our legal code is written,
(13:41):
and how how our legal code is interpreted and applied
and precedent and case law and all these sorts of things.
What are some things that you think corrupt our general
understanding of the Bible in a conventional sense that you
have to undo to go in with a properly open mind.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Boy question, I think that, uh, our denominationalism doesn't help.
Our church history doesn't help, our Americanism doesn't help, and them.
You know, look, I I'm profoundly proud of our our
our American history and so many of the things there.
(14:18):
But but when we equate being American with being Christian,
or or being whatever it is with being Christian, that's
that's not helpful. And so, as you said, so many
of the things that we have learned, not only you know,
limit us from understanding the Bible.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
David Klingler is our guest. We had a momentary glitch.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
The devil was was working on our phone lines for
a moment, but throughout his career he has uh. He
has been perseverant and resilient, if if nothing else, and
and he will continue to be just a second before
we go to a quick break, and then we'll move
on to the next thing. What do you love most
about what you do now in addition to being a
(15:04):
dad and a husband and a friend. But this, I
don't want to call it a job per se, But
what do you love most about it.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
To watch people understand the Bible. It was the thing
that drove me. And in the Bible doesn't need to
be hard to understand. The churches don't need to be
set against each other. We need to all be pursuing truth.
And so when we understand the Bible becomes so simple,
and it's fun to watch students, you know, the kind
(15:35):
of that aha moment they get at they understand it,
and and it's just fun to watch. And then you
watch how it changes their lives and they devote themselves
to very different things than they had before. And and
so that's what I love, That's what I do. I'm
thankful for the ministry of teaching the Bible. So many
great people behind that thing that make that go. I
(15:57):
just say on the in the microphone what I teach
at the seminary. But just so thankful to be a
part of the Havan that the Lord can use any
of us. You know, you don't have to be a
retired football player with a big name. The Lord has
always used the smallest f.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
That's talently and it's good that you do use it.
David Clingley Cleaner is our guest most com.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And you listen to the Michael Berry Show that.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
David Kleaner is our guest football star turned PhD in theology.
Now teach me the Bible dot com. There's a podcast,
teach me the Bible dot Com. I noticed, let's talk
about your team. I notice you've got some folks. See
if I can pull the page back up here, You've
got some folks that are associated with churches who are
(16:53):
part of I guess this podcast team.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Tell me what this entity looks like that you are
a part of, looks like you run.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
It's it's actually just a very small group of very
committed people. We our budget is next to nothing. And
and you know you don't need a lot of money
to do ministry. Uh, you need just some passion and
care for people. And and so there's still Porter phil
Is Uh, he's our worship pastor at Champion Fellowship, Tim Webb.
(17:24):
Tim's the lead pastor at the church, and just a
wonderful guy. We've become just steadfast friends and and just
such a faithful a guy. Alex Wolfe is actually one
of our PhD students and also a pastor at the church.
And uh. And then there's several men who I've trained
through the PhD program who are pastoring at other churches
(17:46):
and and we all just have a passion to help
the people of God understand the Word of God. And
that's what brought us together and uh, and so that's
what we're what we're doing, will teach me the Bible.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
And when people engage in this and they want to
understand the Word of God, how do you think that
changes them? How what is their reaction after this? What
do you hear back?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Mostly just you know, thank you, it makes sense now.
And and I don't want any of the focus. I
always tell our students. I tell our you know, at
the seminay, we're training pastors, we're training professors, and say,
if anyone ever comes up to you after you've taught
or preached and say, boy, you're such a gifted speaker,
(18:33):
such a gifted communication care or you know, communicator or whatever.
You're doing something that's bringing attention to you. And our
job is to bring attention to the Lord and to
his word. And and so that's really it when they
come up and they say, man, I really thought that
I knew Jesus, but this this just is is just
(18:57):
so eye opening. It's, you know, thank you that that
makes it worth everything we're doing.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
You have a Bible conference coming up March fourteenth and fifteenth,
and I'm reading about it and it's to teach me
the Bible Conference twenty twenty five, and it says, this
was an interesting line.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I thought.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Our mission is to help the people of God understand
the Word of God. And when you leave this conference,
you will be able to open your Bible and understand
all the epistles. Is there a particular focus on the epistles?
Why do you mention that?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Well, last year we did the story of the scriptures,
and so what we're doing, we're always just taking a
section of scripture and say, let's understand what this section
of scripture is doing. And we're going to dive into
six specific epistles, three Pauline epistles, three what we call
general epistles, And so we'll be doing Ephesians and Philippians
(19:52):
James first, John first, Peter missing one of them. I
don't remember which one they'll running together. I think Philippians, Uh,
Feasans of Philippians and uh one morgg We'll we'll teach
six of them. But helping people understand, Oh, this makes sense.
(20:15):
I know what he's saying now, and it kind of
demystifies in some in some way what Paul's saying. Paul's
just writing to a historic group of people to address
a historic situation. Uh and uh, and they go, wait
a second, this makes sense. I understand this now, and
that's our goal. That that is simply our goal, Uh,
(20:36):
in everything that we're doing.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
What does your personal Bible study look like? Do you
have a time of day, do you have a place
where you go? Do you have and I know you
do to teach me the Bible in a year, which
I know a lot of people have done, if not,
your course courses and programs like that. You know, the
consistency seems to help folks. But what is your personal Bible,
study your personal wish.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
And you know, I tell people all the time, I
can't believe that I get to do what I do. Basically,
my day involves waking up and or reflecting on what
I was thinking about all night. You know how it
is things wake you up in the middle of the night. Recently,
I was trying to think through first Thessalonians five ten
(21:23):
in the middle of the night, trying to figure out
what's going on there. And so I get to wake
up and interest reflect on the Bible all day, I do,
you know, So I use the Greek Hebrew Aramaic text.
There's a few sections of Aramic in the Bible, and
just try to understand it better so that it changes
(21:45):
my life and hopefully changes the lives of those around us.
And boy, we need more people who handle the Word
of God will to lead the church. Were in desperate need.
We we we are losing pastors. Not many folks are
going into the ministry. Why is that, s Well, that's
(22:11):
a great question. I think that there's not a lot
of glitz to it. It's a hard job. People are
hard to deal with sometimes. I think one statistic I
heard was that about ten percent of our students are
our graduates that go into the full time ministry are
still in ministry within five to seven years.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
And well you know as well those times that pastoring
a church, tending a flock is a very different undertaking
and a more difficult undertaking than what might be more considerate,
you know, in the for a Joel Osting, preaching, whether
that be on TV or in a megachurch or whatever
is the concept of preaching is only one aspect of pastoring.
(22:50):
But the pastoring is tough because you are really as
tending a flock. And that's where the heavy live thing
comes in. In my opinion, go.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Sure, yeah, and you can't. You can't pastor the multitudes.
Doctor Swindall, Chuck Swindall, famous Bible teacher. I remember one
day I was talking with him. And there's so many
I've just benefited from, so many profoundly wise people. But
one day I was talking to him and I just
thanked him for his giant impact that he's had in ministry.
(23:24):
And I was thinking about, you know, his insight for
living ministry and radio ministry, and he stopped me. He said,
let me explain something to you. You know, kind of
like when you. You you take the little kid in
your under your arms. You let me explain something to
you very clearly, so you don't misunderstand this. He said,
you can impress from afar, but you can only impact
(23:44):
up cloth. And I think about that a lot. That
that that we've we live in this world and you know,
podcasts do it and radio does it, and you can
influence a lot of people, but the amount of time
that you can actually spend to get to know them
on and to to to get deep into their life,
(24:04):
and it's not many. And and that's the that's the
hard part of pastoring. We were so driven by this
megachurch model where we all want to have the giant,
biggest churches and the biggest ministries and you know, the
podcast that reaches millions and all that stuff. But you know,
but in doing that, you pass over the people that
(24:24):
are right in front of you, uh, that that you
should be caring for, and you're not. And and so
pastoring is hard work and and and it's not often
met with the all the praisers of the world, and
even the praises within the church. Often it's met with criticism.
And so it's it's hard work. But but it's very rewarding.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
One more segment with David Klingler, the King of Ding
and this other guy, Michael Barry.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
These are the kind of guys you like a smack
and Ann.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
I found out recently that David Klingler in a Where
Are They Now? Episode VH one style, who was the
star quarterback when I was at the University of Houston
for the Cougars.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
He was.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Nationally celebrated, a finalist for the Heisman Trophy, beloved following
Andrea Ware and numbers even more impressive than Andrea and
Andre to be the first State Heyday of UH football.
And I found out that he went to Theological Seminary.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Got his PhD.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
And now he's teaching in many different roles and one
of them is sort of a to the general public,
and it's called Teach Me Thebible dot Com.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
You can find them online and a.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Podcast, so if you would like to do that, they
do learn the Bible in a year. They have a
conference coming up. I noticed, let's talk about the dollars
and cents. And I know people are uncomfortable with that sometimes,
but it is a part of everything we do. It
doesn't appear to me that you're trying to make much,
if any money off of this thing, because I noticed
that the conference schedule of two day conference the is
(26:07):
a whopping twenty nine dollars and you have to defray
the costs of all sorts of things to even put
that on. Is that a conscious decision of you know
this this isn't a business enterprise.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yes, yes it is. And uh and again I think
that you know, I want to criticize churches. You know,
we do need somewhere to meet and all that, but
for the most part, ministry takes no money. It takes time.
And so you know when we said, well we need
to do a podcast, well how much does that does
(26:41):
that take? It takes some people who are committed in
some time. It takes a computer, It takes a couple
of microphones and in focus to sit in front of them.
And so really, you know, we can do this, this
whole ministry for a very very small amount. And I've
covered that expense. And and I love what Paul says.
It seems like we keep going back to the Corinthians,
(27:03):
but you know that Paul works in their midst and
and wasn't a burden to any of them. And the
reason why he does this is so that none of
them could say that his motivation was financial. His motivation
was for running. Everything that he was doing was for
the building up of the Body of Christ and to
benefit the church. And so our mission. So often mission
(27:26):
statements of an organization are our stated mission, but they're
not the real mission. Our real mission is to help
the people of God understand the Word of God. And
that's it, and we want to do it. It is
a labor of love, and we want to do it
for as cheaply as we can to benefit the church.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
So we don't.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
You know, if you want to give, great but you
know we don't. We don't need your gifts.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Let's talk about your life and how you arrived where
you are. And I'm not holding you up as perfect.
I know you would not be comfortable with that. It's
inconsistent with your teachings. But let's talk about decision making
in your life. Obviously, you've made some decisions that I
would consider to be very good decisions. To put yourself
(28:16):
the ledger of your decision making would be better than bad.
To put yourself in a position where you're proud of
your kids, you're happy, in your marriage. Your skills and
talents are being put to good use toward your faith
through your ministry. When you talk to young athletes, and
you've done that over the years, and you talk to
young people, what advice Looking back now where you are
(28:36):
in your fifties, do you say, I wish I'd learned this,
wish somebody told me this, or these are some things
that really seem to resonate with young people.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I was so thankful Jack Party back at our time,
at you of age. He was a man of such
unbelievable character. So many great men poured into my life,
and I really took what they said to hard and
and it troubles me today that we've kind of turned
our whole culture, specifically sports culture into free agency. You know,
(29:13):
everybody is is a free agent. They're all working for themselves.
We're seeing this in college football, certainly, it's been around
the NFL for you, even in the youth sports. You know,
you guys, you've got six year olds play on select teams,
and you know they act as a free agent. And
and somewhere in our culture we need to learn the
(29:33):
concept of individual sacrifice for mutual benefit, that there is
a mission and nothing worth achieving is going to be
achieved by yourself. It's going to take a bunch of people,
single minded in the mission to try to achieve something
greater than yourself. And frankly, I think that's that's why
(29:56):
Nick Saban, I think has left college football. I think that,
you know, increasingly, it's become difficult in our culture to
find these in these places. And so what we're not
interested in personal sacrifice, We're not interested in suffering. We're
not interested in doing anything that's hard, uh, and so
we suffer because of it. That everything that's great that
(30:18):
you want to achieve in life is going to cost
you to suffer. It's going to be hard, and it's
going to take the help of others to do it.
And and so I'm so proud of my two boys,
you know, coaching. You know, I'm not so sure that
pastoring is the most influential thing in our culture anymore.
Maybe at one time it was sports. I think is
(30:38):
probably right at the top of the list now And
at least in my life, my coaches had the biggest
influence on me. And so I'm so proud of what
they're doing. They're they have devoted their their lives, not
to teaching football x's and o's or run and shoot
or you know, some offense or something, but character. They're
(31:01):
in the character education business, absolutely, and I'm really proud
of them to that.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
You know, in my life, I think of the people
who have had the biggest influence and I still have
people like this. You know, it was obviously my parents,
but it was coaches and teachers and administrators and youth
pastors and pastors, and more of those were outside the
church than in. And I think if everybody understands the
(31:29):
role you have in raising young people, and we see
the results when we don't do our job. And maybe
that's an avuncular role because you know, our brother or
sisters kid needs somebody to talk to on occasion, or
maybe it's a grandparent who steps in on occasion. And
I think a lot of people have been afraid to
do that, and we could spend a lot of time
on why that is. I'm going to ask you as
(31:49):
we part, to give me one quick memory of play
and ball at the University of Houston. That is when
you will always fondly remember a moment, a game, something.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
There was a play and I've talked to Andrea about this.
It's his favorite play as well. You know, when we
were there together, we were there at the same time.
We were both fierce competitors, but through that became great friends,
lifelong friends. And so we were playing the University of Texas.
(32:20):
They played Manda Man almost every play, and so John Jenkins,
the offensive coordinator, he put in this play where Andre
was going to you know, as we were always at
the line calling the plays, and so he would kind
of wander out to the right and call the play
to the right, and then he would go to the
left and he would yell out to the receivers at
the left, and as he went out to the left,
(32:43):
we'd snap the ball and I would My job was
to sneak in with the crowd and replace Chuck Witherspoon,
who was the running back. And so I'm back there
in the shotgun and I catched this snap. And we
were pretty aware that Andre had a pretty good chance
to win the Heisman that year, and he was throwing
for all kinds of yard yards and touchdowns and then
(33:03):
if he could catch a touchdown pass that would just
be great. And and well, I was as nervous as
I could be because you know, I had to throw
this thing, and so off he goes down the sideline
and sure enough he's wide open and uh, thankfully through
a decent ball. If it'd been a little better, he
to score it. But but but he caught that thing
going down the sideline. It's just a you know, just
(33:26):
a great memory.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
That I that I had, And thank you for sharing
that really up against the clock, David Klingler. Thank you
for sharing a few hours of your time with us,
and thank you for your ministry
It's that time time, time, time, luck and load.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So Michael Verie Show is on the air.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
David Komler as our guest. He resides in the Greater
Brinham area. Now his sons the head football coach at
Somerville High School. His other son is the offensive coordinator there.
You probably remember the name if you've been in Houston
or followed football for very long. He was a star
quarterback at the University of Houston in the early nineties.
(00:40):
He was third runner up for second runner up for
the Heisman Trophy. First round draft pick of the Cincinnati
Bengals ended up going to the Raiders, but his elbow
was blown by then and came home and decided he
really wanted to learn the Bible, and now he teaches
others and teaches people how to learn well. He of course,
(01:00):
in the meantime, went and got a PhD in at
seminary in theology. David, let me ask you a question
you were talking earlier about theological studies and the types
of people who go there. I have heard it said
of people I've known who were Theologians that went to
Harvard Divinity School that there aren't actually any Christians there
(01:22):
that it's as if it's sort of like you go
to a literature school and there's no writers there, that
there are people who reduce it to something that does
not involve any faith.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Do you find that to be the case?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yes, well, yeah, we have in our desire to make
the Bible more acceptable because of what we were talking
in the last session that you know, the Bible calls
to suffering. You know, James is going to say, considered
(01:56):
all joy in my brethren, when you encounter various trials
knowing that the testing of your faith works for endurance,
and let endurance have it. That's not fun talk right, suffering,
you know. And so in our desire to make the
Bible more appealing, less offensive, more tolerant, more all accepting,
(02:19):
we water down the Gospel, We water down the teachings
of the Bible. And it's all around us today. But
it's not just today. That's always been the case, Paul,
from the very beginning. The all of the letters that
we see in the New Testament, we're actually in our
we're having a conference coming up in March fourteenth and
(02:40):
fifteenth where we're going to talk about the letters, but
all of the letters in the Bible whether it's Romans
or Ephesians or Galatians or whatever it is. These were
letters written to people or to the church to address
theological issues that have come up that are causing people
to change, to compromise. And so every school, Princeton, Harvard,
(03:04):
so many of our great schools, Yale, they all began
as theological institutions. And unfortunately we tend to wander from
the faith. And it wouldn't surprise me if even schools
that have historically been really good Dallas Seminary or you know,
(03:25):
all of these denominations we're seeing it. They all wander
from the faith and compromise, often under the guise of
being tolerant and more loving. But what happens is we
we change the definitions right of these words. And you
see it even in constitutional law and government and these
types of things, that if you're allowed to change the definitions,
(03:47):
you can make it mean whatever you want, right, And
so I.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Say it's the right that that's what new speakers about.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
He gave us the tools to understand this, that that
words have meaning, and that if you need to change
con you simply change words and change meaning. And it's
very powerful. You made a reference to the church. And
I'm never you know, people like to paint with a
broad brush and refer to the black community as if
all black people live in a certain neighborhood and make
(04:15):
the same amount of money and do the same things.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
And it's just not true. And so I'm going to
paint with a bit of a broad brush.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
But when you look at the church today organized Christianity
in the form most of us would identify with, where
do you see that as compared to where it was?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
And what would you most like to change?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I tell you know, when we walk down that that's
a great question when we walk down the trail of
church history. One of the things that we're doing at
our church, Champion Fellowship and Brenham is we are I'm
helping us think through the reality the distinction between the
church or a church. A church is simply a gathering
(04:59):
a believer and so you know, and so once a
you know, a group of believers gathers, we can call
the church. But the Body of Christ, the Body of
Christ is is all believers in all places, in all times.
At the end of the story, people from every nation,
every tribe, every people, every tongue. Uh, this is the
Body of Christ. And we have so divided the Body
(05:21):
of Christ. We've so you know, we have factions Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic, Baptist,
uh I.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Alst Of just referred to it as Southern Baptist and
the non Christians.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Well that's what everybody for me.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, that we're the only ones who are who are saved, right,
We're the only ones who are in And and I
love what Paul says to the Corinthians. You know that
this is uh, you know, very early one of uh,
one of the early letters that Paul writes. And there's
divisions in the church at Corinth And and they divide
over following. Some of them are following Paul, some of
(06:03):
them are following Apollos, who's the pastor of the church there.
Some of them are following Peter, who's the leader of
the of the Jews and the church in Jerusalem. And
I love what he says. He says, you know, I
hear that there are divisions among you. Some are saying
I'm of Paul, or I'm of Apollos, or I'm of
Peter or of Christ. And then he asked this question,
(06:25):
was Paul crucified for you or were you baptized in
the name of Paul. I, Thank god I didn't baptize
any of you, so none of you could say you
were baptized in my name right.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
And then he goes on.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
To say, and this is where it kind of makes us,
you know, Baptists uncomfortable. He says, the Lord didn't send
me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel. And so
he goes on to explain in this whole letter that
everything he does is to build up the body of Christ.
And so we do great error when we fail to
(06:58):
recognize that all believers in all places, in all times,
in all churches, and none of us have the you know,
we're all heretics in the sense that we all believe
false doctrine. We just don't know what the false doctrine
is that we're believing. And so that's what we've got
to go back to the scriptures all of the time
(07:19):
to make sure that what we're saying is So we've
got to be bereans. And I think that you've got
to have a lot of humility when you come to
the scriptures and put yourself under the authority of the text,
not under the authority of a teacher, a Bible teacher,
a ministry, even if it's teached me the Bible or
(07:39):
whatever it is. We all have to answer to the Lord.
And so so you know, the church has always been
in some ways a mess because human church is the
bride of Christ.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Sure, and you know the church is.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
The bride of Christ, and He gave himself for the church.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
And so one of the things David David Kleinler is
our guest, I'm going to ask him in his teach
Me the Bible dot com and Teach Me the Bible
podcast sort of way to teach me about one of
my favorite people.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
In the Bible, and that is the Apostle Paul, to
teach me what she said in Spinish. I just said
it to the judge in Spanish because I feel that
she forgets that we're Hispanic and that we're the people
that she targeted for a vote.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
The Michael Arry Show. David Kleanler is our guest. You
may remember him as a football star.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
He went on to get his PhD in theological studies
with an expertise in the Old Testament. You can go
to teach Me the Bible dot Com in a very
accessible way to learn about the Bible. He also has
a podcast those of you always looking for a fun
new podcast, and he's our guest, David Klingler.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
If you would teach me the Bible about Paul.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Saul of Sarsus, one of my favorite, one of my
favorite people in all the Bible is uh Saul of
Tarsus because of.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Well, for many reasons, but anyway, teach me the Bible
about Paul.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Uh what uh? You know, Paul was a he's a pharisee. Uh.
You know, he kind of lists his credentials in Philippians
chapter three. You know, he was of the tribe of Benjamin,
circumcised on the eighth to day. He was steadfast in
his holding to Judaism, persecution of the church and uh.
(09:30):
And so the thing about Paul is he knew the
Old Testament scriptures stone cold. I mean he knew uh,
he knew the Bible. He knew the Old Testament scriptures.
And when he comes to Christ, it just changes everything
for him. Uh and uh. And so he wholly devotes
himself to the Lord. And and we were talking in
the last segment about the Corinthians and and and everything
(09:53):
that he does is for the building up of the
body of Christ. He explains that we are members of
one another. And I love how he how he sets
that out that John says the same thing. It's all
bring a little bit of John here in first John.
But how can you say that you love Christ and
you haven't seen None of us have seen Jesus, none
(10:14):
of us have heard his voice. We talk about you know,
we use that kind of language. You know, I've heard
the voice. But you know, but how'd you know? Right,
Paul was going to say, Look, I don't care if
an angel appears in you know, in the room. If
if someone appears to you, if an angel appears to
you and presents a gospel different than that which I've preached,
let him be a cursed and you know. And so
(10:36):
if we haven't seen Jesus, don't tell me about your
love of Jesus. Show me your love of Jesus, for
your love of his body. That is the Church, the
body of Christ. And so we need to be about
building up the body of Christ. It's everything he does.
He sacrifices his whole life, all his credentials, to build
up the body of Christ, to take the gospel to
(10:57):
the Gentiles and and boy he is I mean, unbelievably
bold and ultimately goes to his death because of them.
Just an amazing character.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
What what I find interesting is that perhaps the verses
that that I have most really enjoyed diving into it,
really taking them apart. I like to put take things
apart and put them back together, not physical things, but
people and literature and the Bible. And I find that
with Paul's letters, h I do that. And I didn't
(11:33):
know until later that these were letters, that this was
a sort of an untraditional, unconventional portion of the Bible.
How do you think that affects the books that by
that that that are attributed to Paul because they were
a letter formed from prison to those those peoples, those churches.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Well, I think that that if we if we first
remember that they're letters, you'll interpret them correctly. Right we
go in. Let's take for example, Paul's letter to Timothy.
He writes two letters to Timothy, and he's going to
say things. He's going to tell Timothy to do things
like look out for Alexander the Coppers myth. Well, I'm
(12:12):
not worried about Alexander the Coppers myth. You know, and
and he says, bring me my cloak impartments before winner.
And I'm not trying to find Paul before winter. I'm
not praying for Paul, you know, Paul's you know. But
he tells Timothy to do other things that are very
applicable to today. And and so when we remember that Paul,
(12:33):
for example, was writing to the Romans the printin's Galatians Ephesians,
whoever was to address specific issues that had arisen in
that congregation, or with by Layman, or or with with Timothy,
or in the church at Thessalonica, then we can read
them and it makes sense. We see what he was
doing back then, and we can draw implications for today
(12:53):
because we're still in the church today and the you know,
the church still has its struggles in the world is
still the world. Nothing is new, as Solomon would say
in Ecclesiastics, is there's nothing new under the sign. It's
the same issues. People are still pursuing wealth in a
big name and fame and fortune, and then they die
(13:16):
and it's all vanity.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
David Klingler is our guest.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
David, let me ask you, you know, having gone to
law school and then getting another law degree when people
ask me questions about, you know, how do I learn
more about the law. I often say that you have
to begin by unlearning many things that were told to
you that are not true because they create blocks. And
how you understand, you know, how our legal code is written,
(13:41):
and how how our legal code is interpreted and applied
and precedent and case law and all these sorts of things.
What are some things that you think corrupt our general
understanding of the Bible in a conventional sense that you
have to undo to go in with a properly open mind.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Boy question, I think that, uh, our denominationalism doesn't help.
Our church history doesn't help, our Americanism doesn't help, and them.
You know, look, I I'm profoundly proud of our our
our American history and so many of the things there.
(14:18):
But but when we equate being American with being Christian,
or or being whatever it is with being Christian, that's
that's not helpful. And so, as you said, so many
of the things that we have learned, not only you know,
limit us from understanding the Bible.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
David Klingler is our guest. We had a momentary glitch.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
The devil was was working on our phone lines for
a moment, but throughout his career he has uh. He
has been perseverant and resilient, if if nothing else, and
and he will continue to be just a second before
we go to a quick break, and then we'll move
on to the next thing. What do you love most
about what you do now in addition to being a
(15:04):
dad and a husband and a friend. But this, I
don't want to call it a job per se, But
what do you love most about it.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
To watch people understand the Bible. It was the thing
that drove me. And in the Bible doesn't need to
be hard to understand. The churches don't need to be
set against each other. We need to all be pursuing truth.
And so when we understand the Bible becomes so simple,
and it's fun to watch students, you know, the kind
(15:35):
of that aha moment they get at they understand it,
and and it's just fun to watch. And then you
watch how it changes their lives and they devote themselves
to very different things than they had before. And and
so that's what I love, That's what I do. I'm
thankful for the ministry of teaching the Bible. So many
great people behind that thing that make that go. I
(15:57):
just say on the in the microphone what I teach
at the seminary. But just so thankful to be a
part of the Havan that the Lord can use any
of us. You know, you don't have to be a
retired football player with a big name. The Lord has
always used the smallest f.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
That's talently and it's good that you do use it.
David Clingley Cleaner is our guest most com.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And you listen to the Michael Berry Show that.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
David Kleaner is our guest football star turned PhD in theology.
Now teach me the Bible dot com. There's a podcast,
teach me the Bible dot Com. I noticed, let's talk
about your team. I notice you've got some folks. See
if I can pull the page back up here, You've
got some folks that are associated with churches who are
(16:53):
part of I guess this podcast team.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Tell me what this entity looks like that you are
a part of, looks like you run.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
It's it's actually just a very small group of very
committed people. We our budget is next to nothing. And
and you know you don't need a lot of money
to do ministry. Uh, you need just some passion and
care for people. And and so there's still Porter phil
Is Uh, he's our worship pastor at Champion Fellowship, Tim Webb.
(17:24):
Tim's the lead pastor at the church, and just a
wonderful guy. We've become just steadfast friends and and just
such a faithful a guy. Alex Wolfe is actually one
of our PhD students and also a pastor at the church.
And uh. And then there's several men who I've trained
through the PhD program who are pastoring at other churches
(17:46):
and and we all just have a passion to help
the people of God understand the Word of God. And
that's what brought us together and uh, and so that's
what we're what we're doing, will teach me the Bible.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
And when people engage in this and they want to
understand the Word of God, how do you think that
changes them? How what is their reaction after this? What
do you hear back?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Mostly just you know, thank you, it makes sense now.
And and I don't want any of the focus. I
always tell our students. I tell our you know, at
the seminay, we're training pastors, we're training professors, and say,
if anyone ever comes up to you after you've taught
or preached and say, boy, you're such a gifted speaker,
(18:33):
such a gifted communication care or you know, communicator or whatever.
You're doing something that's bringing attention to you. And our
job is to bring attention to the Lord and to
his word. And and so that's really it when they
come up and they say, man, I really thought that
I knew Jesus, but this this just is is just
(18:57):
so eye opening. It's, you know, thank you that that
makes it worth everything we're doing.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
You have a Bible conference coming up March fourteenth and fifteenth,
and I'm reading about it and it's to teach me
the Bible Conference twenty twenty five, and it says, this
was an interesting line.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I thought.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Our mission is to help the people of God understand
the Word of God. And when you leave this conference,
you will be able to open your Bible and understand
all the epistles. Is there a particular focus on the epistles?
Why do you mention that?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Well, last year we did the story of the scriptures,
and so what we're doing, we're always just taking a
section of scripture and say, let's understand what this section
of scripture is doing. And we're going to dive into
six specific epistles, three Pauline epistles, three what we call
general epistles, And so we'll be doing Ephesians and Philippians
(19:52):
James first, John first, Peter missing one of them. I
don't remember which one they'll running together. I think Philippians, Uh,
Feasans of Philippians and uh one morgg We'll we'll teach
six of them. But helping people understand, Oh, this makes sense.
(20:15):
I know what he's saying now, and it kind of
demystifies in some in some way what Paul's saying. Paul's
just writing to a historic group of people to address
a historic situation. Uh and uh, and they go, wait
a second, this makes sense. I understand this now, and
that's our goal. That that is simply our goal, Uh,
(20:36):
in everything that we're doing.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
What does your personal Bible study look like? Do you
have a time of day, do you have a place
where you go? Do you have and I know you
do to teach me the Bible in a year, which
I know a lot of people have done, if not,
your course courses and programs like that. You know, the
consistency seems to help folks. But what is your personal Bible,
study your personal wish.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
And you know, I tell people all the time, I
can't believe that I get to do what I do. Basically,
my day involves waking up and or reflecting on what
I was thinking about all night. You know how it
is things wake you up in the middle of the night. Recently,
I was trying to think through first Thessalonians five ten
(21:23):
in the middle of the night, trying to figure out
what's going on there. And so I get to wake
up and interest reflect on the Bible all day, I do,
you know, So I use the Greek Hebrew Aramaic text.
There's a few sections of Aramic in the Bible, and
just try to understand it better so that it changes
(21:45):
my life and hopefully changes the lives of those around us.
And boy, we need more people who handle the Word
of God will to lead the church. Were in desperate need.
We we we are losing pastors. Not many folks are
going into the ministry. Why is that, s Well, that's
(22:11):
a great question. I think that there's not a lot
of glitz to it. It's a hard job. People are
hard to deal with sometimes. I think one statistic I
heard was that about ten percent of our students are
our graduates that go into the full time ministry are
still in ministry within five to seven years.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
And well you know as well those times that pastoring
a church, tending a flock is a very different undertaking
and a more difficult undertaking than what might be more considerate,
you know, in the for a Joel Osting, preaching, whether
that be on TV or in a megachurch or whatever
is the concept of preaching is only one aspect of pastoring.
(22:50):
But the pastoring is tough because you are really as
tending a flock. And that's where the heavy live thing
comes in. In my opinion, go.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Sure, yeah, and you can't. You can't pastor the multitudes.
Doctor Swindall, Chuck Swindall, famous Bible teacher. I remember one
day I was talking with him. And there's so many
I've just benefited from, so many profoundly wise people. But
one day I was talking to him and I just
thanked him for his giant impact that he's had in ministry.
(23:24):
And I was thinking about, you know, his insight for
living ministry and radio ministry, and he stopped me. He said,
let me explain something to you. You know, kind of
like when you. You you take the little kid in
your under your arms. You let me explain something to
you very clearly, so you don't misunderstand this. He said,
you can impress from afar, but you can only impact
(23:44):
up cloth. And I think about that a lot. That
that that we've we live in this world and you know,
podcasts do it and radio does it, and you can
influence a lot of people, but the amount of time
that you can actually spend to get to know them
on and to to to get deep into their life,
(24:04):
and it's not many. And and that's the that's the
hard part of pastoring. We were so driven by this
megachurch model where we all want to have the giant,
biggest churches and the biggest ministries and you know, the
podcast that reaches millions and all that stuff. But you know,
but in doing that, you pass over the people that
(24:24):
are right in front of you, uh, that that you
should be caring for, and you're not. And and so
pastoring is hard work and and and it's not often
met with the all the praisers of the world, and
even the praises within the church. Often it's met with criticism.
And so it's it's hard work. But but it's very rewarding.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
One more segment with David Klingler, the King of Ding
and this other guy, Michael Barry.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
These are the kind of guys you like a smack
and Ann.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
I found out recently that David Klingler in a Where
Are They Now? Episode VH one style, who was the
star quarterback when I was at the University of Houston
for the Cougars.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
He was.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Nationally celebrated, a finalist for the Heisman Trophy, beloved following
Andrea Ware and numbers even more impressive than Andrea and
Andre to be the first State Heyday of UH football.
And I found out that he went to Theological Seminary.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Got his PhD.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
And now he's teaching in many different roles and one
of them is sort of a to the general public,
and it's called Teach Me Thebible dot Com.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
You can find them online and a.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Podcast, so if you would like to do that, they
do learn the Bible in a year. They have a
conference coming up. I noticed, let's talk about the dollars
and cents. And I know people are uncomfortable with that sometimes,
but it is a part of everything we do. It
doesn't appear to me that you're trying to make much,
if any money off of this thing, because I noticed
that the conference schedule of two day conference the is
(26:07):
a whopping twenty nine dollars and you have to defray
the costs of all sorts of things to even put
that on. Is that a conscious decision of you know
this this isn't a business enterprise.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yes, yes it is. And uh and again I think
that you know, I want to criticize churches. You know,
we do need somewhere to meet and all that, but
for the most part, ministry takes no money. It takes time.
And so you know when we said, well we need
to do a podcast, well how much does that does
(26:41):
that take? It takes some people who are committed in
some time. It takes a computer, It takes a couple
of microphones and in focus to sit in front of them.
And so really, you know, we can do this, this
whole ministry for a very very small amount. And I've
covered that expense. And and I love what Paul says.
It seems like we keep going back to the Corinthians,
(27:03):
but you know that Paul works in their midst and
and wasn't a burden to any of them. And the
reason why he does this is so that none of
them could say that his motivation was financial. His motivation
was for running. Everything that he was doing was for
the building up of the Body of Christ and to
benefit the church. And so our mission. So often mission
(27:26):
statements of an organization are our stated mission, but they're
not the real mission. Our real mission is to help
the people of God understand the Word of God. And
that's it, and we want to do it. It is
a labor of love, and we want to do it
for as cheaply as we can to benefit the church.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
So we don't.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
You know, if you want to give, great but you
know we don't. We don't need your gifts.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Let's talk about your life and how you arrived where
you are. And I'm not holding you up as perfect.
I know you would not be comfortable with that. It's
inconsistent with your teachings. But let's talk about decision making
in your life. Obviously, you've made some decisions that I
would consider to be very good decisions. To put yourself
(28:16):
the ledger of your decision making would be better than bad.
To put yourself in a position where you're proud of
your kids, you're happy, in your marriage. Your skills and
talents are being put to good use toward your faith
through your ministry. When you talk to young athletes, and
you've done that over the years, and you talk to
young people, what advice Looking back now where you are
(28:36):
in your fifties, do you say, I wish I'd learned this,
wish somebody told me this, or these are some things
that really seem to resonate with young people.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I was so thankful Jack Party back at our time,
at you of age. He was a man of such
unbelievable character. So many great men poured into my life,
and I really took what they said to hard and
and it troubles me today that we've kind of turned
our whole culture, specifically sports culture into free agency. You know,
(29:13):
everybody is is a free agent. They're all working for themselves.
We're seeing this in college football, certainly, it's been around
the NFL for you, even in the youth sports. You know,
you guys, you've got six year olds play on select teams,
and you know they act as a free agent. And
and somewhere in our culture we need to learn the
(29:33):
concept of individual sacrifice for mutual benefit, that there is
a mission and nothing worth achieving is going to be
achieved by yourself. It's going to take a bunch of people,
single minded in the mission to try to achieve something
greater than yourself. And frankly, I think that's that's why
(29:56):
Nick Saban, I think has left college football. I think that,
you know, increasingly, it's become difficult in our culture to
find these in these places. And so what we're not
interested in personal sacrifice, We're not interested in suffering. We're
not interested in doing anything that's hard, uh, and so
we suffer because of it. That everything that's great that
(30:18):
you want to achieve in life is going to cost
you to suffer. It's going to be hard, and it's
going to take the help of others to do it.
And and so I'm so proud of my two boys,
you know, coaching. You know, I'm not so sure that
pastoring is the most influential thing in our culture anymore.
Maybe at one time it was sports. I think is
(30:38):
probably right at the top of the list now And
at least in my life, my coaches had the biggest
influence on me. And so I'm so proud of what
they're doing. They're they have devoted their their lives, not
to teaching football x's and o's or run and shoot
or you know, some offense or something, but character. They're
(31:01):
in the character education business, absolutely, and I'm really proud
of them to that.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
You know, in my life, I think of the people
who have had the biggest influence and I still have
people like this. You know, it was obviously my parents,
but it was coaches and teachers and administrators and youth
pastors and pastors, and more of those were outside the
church than in. And I think if everybody understands the
(31:29):
role you have in raising young people, and we see
the results when we don't do our job. And maybe
that's an avuncular role because you know, our brother or
sisters kid needs somebody to talk to on occasion, or
maybe it's a grandparent who steps in on occasion. And
I think a lot of people have been afraid to
do that, and we could spend a lot of time
on why that is. I'm going to ask you as
(31:49):
we part, to give me one quick memory of play
and ball at the University of Houston. That is when
you will always fondly remember a moment, a game, something.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
There was a play and I've talked to Andrea about this.
It's his favorite play as well. You know, when we
were there together, we were there at the same time.
We were both fierce competitors, but through that became great friends,
lifelong friends. And so we were playing the University of Texas.
(32:20):
They played Manda Man almost every play, and so John Jenkins,
the offensive coordinator, he put in this play where Andre
was going to you know, as we were always at
the line calling the plays, and so he would kind
of wander out to the right and call the play
to the right, and then he would go to the
left and he would yell out to the receivers at
the left, and as he went out to the left,
(32:43):
we'd snap the ball and I would My job was
to sneak in with the crowd and replace Chuck Witherspoon,
who was the running back. And so I'm back there
in the shotgun and I catched this snap. And we
were pretty aware that Andre had a pretty good chance
to win the Heisman that year, and he was throwing
for all kinds of yard yards and touchdowns and then
(33:03):
if he could catch a touchdown pass that would just
be great. And and well, I was as nervous as
I could be because you know, I had to throw
this thing, and so off he goes down the sideline
and sure enough he's wide open and uh, thankfully through
a decent ball. If it'd been a little better, he
to score it. But but but he caught that thing
going down the sideline. It's just a you know, just
(33:26):
a great memory.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
That I that I had, And thank you for sharing
that really up against the clock, David Klingler. Thank you
for sharing a few hours of your time with us,
and thank you for your ministry
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