August 30, 2025 • 12 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Michael Berry Show. When we think of the American Revolution,
we think about a historical event that changed the world forever.
By the way, Welcome to the Weekend Podcast. For the
first time in history, a government was founded around the
principle that the individual reigns supreme, not the government, That
(00:21):
government is constructed by the people for the people, that
government serves the people, not the other way around. These
are terms and phrases you've heard your entire life so
often that you probably take them for granted. But the
amazing thing about this is that these were revolutionary when
they were uttered. We hold these truths to be self evident.
(00:46):
That all men are created equal, that they are endowed
by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among those
are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These rights
were not bestowed upon us at the whim of a king.
(01:08):
We believe in what are called natural rights, and that
is that our rights come from God himself. That government
is entrusted to protect those rights, but that government did
not give us those rights. That those rights natural rights,
were given by God himself. That man has a dignity
(01:28):
God has given him, and that it is the role
of government to get out of the way and not
strip him of it. You see, this forms the underpinning
of our founding documents, that all government can do is
protect what God already gave you. This is an important
understanding most people don't have. Have you ever wondered how
(01:50):
the American Revolution was viewed by the rest of the world,
because these were not only revolutionary, these were ridiculous ideas.
You can't possibly believe that, but we did. In a
fascinating Hillsdale College video and of Vincenzi, an assistant professor
of Modern European history. And by the way, Hillsdale College
(02:12):
does amazing work. They're not a show sponsor. They should be,
they're not, but they do amazing work. I encourage you
to financially support them, and I encourage you to consume
their content because there's a lot of it and it's very,
very good. Ana Vincenzi examines how Italian perceptions of the
American Revolution evolved over time. She explains that at first
(02:37):
Italian saw it less as a profound revolutionary movement and
more as a British civil war, but this perspective would
shift dramatically after the French Revolution. Now that might sound
crazy to you. Why would they think it's a British
Civil war? Because it was, Because it was. The American
(02:58):
colonists were Englishmen who decided they would no longer be
English Englishmen. They decided they would construct their own government
that was sovereign, not subjects of a king. Today, of
course that's the case, but that was revolutionary literally at
(03:21):
that time.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
This question of how revolutionary was the American Revolution has
been the most interesting aspect of my research. The aspect
of the research that I found was compelling has been
really retracing how Italian views of the American Revolution evolved
between the years when the American Revolution is happening and
(03:45):
after the outbreak of the French Evolution. Italians don't see
the American Revolution as a revolution until the French Evolution happens,
not at least in the way we understand the term
revolution today. The most interesting story here is the remaking
(04:07):
of the concept of revolution and really the birth of
the idea of an age of revolution. Initially, the American
Evolution doesn't play very much of a role. Italians are
not particularly shocked by what's happening in the American colonies.
They perceive it very much as a British issue, as
(04:29):
a civil war and something that is not that novel,
So they don't perceive it as something that is radically unprecedented.
They don't perceive it as a watershed movement. Largely, Italians
perceive what's happening in the American colonies as an expression
of theories of resistance, of the legitimacy of resistance that
have been circulating in Europe for centuries at this point,
(04:54):
and I think that's interesting in it of itself. As
the American Revolution happens, Italians think about it as a
revolution in the old sense of the term. Because what
happens in the seventeen nineties, in the last decade of
the eighteenth century, is that the word revolution itself changes meaning.
(05:21):
If you go through dictionaries in English, in French, in Italian,
before this moment, before the last decade of the eighteenth century,
just revolution meant something different than what we mean today.
Revolution was at two meanings. Mainly, one was going back
to an initial, to an origin, or in an astronmica sense,
(05:44):
the revolution of the earth from the soul. The second
meaning was that of a sudden change vicissitude, something that happened,
not necessarily a political and certainly not a political project.
One of my sources is this woman from Venice. She's
a journalist, and I've found an article where she talks
(06:06):
about revolution, referring to some marital problems that she's having.
She's been fighting with her husband, and she talks about
that as a revolution. I have found articles that talk
about what's happening in America as a revolution, but not
with the connotation that we give the word today of
a radical political change. I think you could say that
(06:29):
the French Revolution really remakes the notion of revolution itself.
It gives the world a new meaning that it didn't
have before. In this context republicanism, there is a pre
modern tradition of republicanism that doesn't link strictly to anti.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Monarchical forms of government.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Republic means the public thing, and in Aristotelian and Sister
also talks about the respublica as something that could be
a government of the one, a government of the few,
a government of the many. John Adams as late as
seventeen eighty nine talks about the British monarchy as a
(07:16):
monarchica republic. Thomas Jefferson, in I think seventeen eighty eight
talks about the King of Poland as the head of
a monarchica republic. So republicanism wasn't perceived as inherently necessarily
anti monarchical.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
After the French evolution, that becomes really.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Unthinkable, just like revolution, the word revolution, I think republicanism.
The nature of republicanism changes pretty dramatically, and that affects
the way Italians retrospectively re understand the meaning of the
American Revolution, and they really come to see it as
(07:56):
the beginning of an age of revolutions. As the American
Revolution happens, Italians don't see it as something that is
establishing a model for how to fix the problems, the
maladies of the origin in Europe, and like during the
seventeen nineties, as they look back, especially as supporters of
(08:17):
the French Revolution in the Italian state, especially those Italians,
start looking back, they start seeing the American Revolution as
the mother of the French evolution, as the beginning of
these liberation of humanity from the oppressive structures of the regime.
European monarchy is the church, and so they make it
(08:40):
into something more evolutionarily than they initially saw it, and
a model that has been more fully applied in France
and should work as an invitation to people everywhere in
Europe to topple existing regimes and build a new society
on a blank slates that will truly.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Restore the natural rights of men.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Over the course of the especially the seventeen eighties, they
observe they read about people like Washington Franklin, and they
start praising them consistently as examples of patriotism, selflessness.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
And especially of prudence.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
They recognize that in the American system of government there's
actually a lot that is in continuity, even though there
isn't a crown, a lot that is in continuity with
the British tradition of this government, that is learning from
the best of.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
That constitutional tradition.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
And so you have in Italy people who recognize that
continuity and praise Americans for their prudence and for not
claiming not trying to do something radically new. There's a
strong sense in the framers of the Constitution that human
(10:04):
nature is messy, is complicated. It's this complicated, messy mix
of good and evil impuses of being made in the
image of God. Therefore, the political constitution is a work
of complexity that involves a lot of prudence that needs
(10:25):
to account for the complexity of human nature itself, and
that there's wisdom in building on the wisdom of the
past and the ways in which the wisdom of the
past has tried to deal with that complexity.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
If you like the Michael Berry Show and Podcast, please
tell one friend, and if you're so inclined, write a
nice review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions, and interest
in being a corporate sponsor and partner can be communicated
directly to the show at our email address, Michael at
(11:03):
Michael Berryshow dot com, or simply by clicking on our website,
Michael Berryshow dot com. The Michael Berry Show and Podcast
is produced by Ramon Roebliss, The King of Ding. Executive
producer is Chad Nakanishi. Jim Mudd is the creative director.
(11:27):
Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery and Shenanigans are provided by Chance McLean.
Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily Bull is our
assistant listener and superfan. Contributions are appreciated and often incorporated
into our production. Where possible, we give credit, where not,
(11:50):
we take all the credit for ourselves. God bless the
memory of Rush Limbaugh, Long live Elvis, be a simple
man like Leonard Skinnard told you, and God bless America. Finally,
if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD, call Camp
Hope at eight seven seven seven one seven PTSD and
(12:15):
a combat veteran will answer the phone to provide free
counseling
The Michael Berry Show. When we think of the American Revolution,
we think about a historical event that changed the world forever.
By the way, Welcome to the Weekend Podcast. For the
first time in history, a government was founded around the
principle that the individual reigns supreme, not the government, That
(00:21):
government is constructed by the people for the people, that
government serves the people, not the other way around. These
are terms and phrases you've heard your entire life so
often that you probably take them for granted. But the
amazing thing about this is that these were revolutionary when
they were uttered. We hold these truths to be self evident.
(00:46):
That all men are created equal, that they are endowed
by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among those
are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These rights
were not bestowed upon us at the whim of a king.
(01:08):
We believe in what are called natural rights, and that
is that our rights come from God himself. That government
is entrusted to protect those rights, but that government did
not give us those rights. That those rights natural rights,
were given by God himself. That man has a dignity
(01:28):
God has given him, and that it is the role
of government to get out of the way and not
strip him of it. You see, this forms the underpinning
of our founding documents, that all government can do is
protect what God already gave you. This is an important
understanding most people don't have. Have you ever wondered how
(01:50):
the American Revolution was viewed by the rest of the world,
because these were not only revolutionary, these were ridiculous ideas.
You can't possibly believe that, but we did. In a
fascinating Hillsdale College video and of Vincenzi, an assistant professor
of Modern European history. And by the way, Hillsdale College
(02:12):
does amazing work. They're not a show sponsor. They should be,
they're not, but they do amazing work. I encourage you
to financially support them, and I encourage you to consume
their content because there's a lot of it and it's very,
very good. Ana Vincenzi examines how Italian perceptions of the
American Revolution evolved over time. She explains that at first
(02:37):
Italian saw it less as a profound revolutionary movement and
more as a British civil war, but this perspective would
shift dramatically after the French Revolution. Now that might sound
crazy to you. Why would they think it's a British
Civil war? Because it was, Because it was. The American
(02:58):
colonists were Englishmen who decided they would no longer be
English Englishmen. They decided they would construct their own government
that was sovereign, not subjects of a king. Today, of
course that's the case, but that was revolutionary literally at
(03:21):
that time.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
This question of how revolutionary was the American Revolution has
been the most interesting aspect of my research. The aspect
of the research that I found was compelling has been
really retracing how Italian views of the American Revolution evolved
between the years when the American Revolution is happening and
(03:45):
after the outbreak of the French Evolution. Italians don't see
the American Revolution as a revolution until the French Evolution happens,
not at least in the way we understand the term
revolution today. The most interesting story here is the remaking
(04:07):
of the concept of revolution and really the birth of
the idea of an age of revolution. Initially, the American
Evolution doesn't play very much of a role. Italians are
not particularly shocked by what's happening in the American colonies.
They perceive it very much as a British issue, as
(04:29):
a civil war and something that is not that novel,
So they don't perceive it as something that is radically unprecedented.
They don't perceive it as a watershed movement. Largely, Italians
perceive what's happening in the American colonies as an expression
of theories of resistance, of the legitimacy of resistance that
have been circulating in Europe for centuries at this point,
(04:54):
and I think that's interesting in it of itself. As
the American Revolution happens, Italians think about it as a
revolution in the old sense of the term. Because what
happens in the seventeen nineties, in the last decade of
the eighteenth century, is that the word revolution itself changes meaning.
(05:21):
If you go through dictionaries in English, in French, in Italian,
before this moment, before the last decade of the eighteenth century,
just revolution meant something different than what we mean today.
Revolution was at two meanings. Mainly, one was going back
to an initial, to an origin, or in an astronmica sense,
(05:44):
the revolution of the earth from the soul. The second
meaning was that of a sudden change vicissitude, something that happened,
not necessarily a political and certainly not a political project.
One of my sources is this woman from Venice. She's
a journalist, and I've found an article where she talks
(06:06):
about revolution, referring to some marital problems that she's having.
She's been fighting with her husband, and she talks about
that as a revolution. I have found articles that talk
about what's happening in America as a revolution, but not
with the connotation that we give the word today of
a radical political change. I think you could say that
(06:29):
the French Revolution really remakes the notion of revolution itself.
It gives the world a new meaning that it didn't
have before. In this context republicanism, there is a pre
modern tradition of republicanism that doesn't link strictly to anti.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Monarchical forms of government.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Republic means the public thing, and in Aristotelian and Sister
also talks about the respublica as something that could be
a government of the one, a government of the few,
a government of the many. John Adams as late as
seventeen eighty nine talks about the British monarchy as a
(07:16):
monarchica republic. Thomas Jefferson, in I think seventeen eighty eight
talks about the King of Poland as the head of
a monarchica republic. So republicanism wasn't perceived as inherently necessarily
anti monarchical.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
After the French evolution, that becomes really.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Unthinkable, just like revolution, the word revolution, I think republicanism.
The nature of republicanism changes pretty dramatically, and that affects
the way Italians retrospectively re understand the meaning of the
American Revolution, and they really come to see it as
(07:56):
the beginning of an age of revolutions. As the American
Revolution happens, Italians don't see it as something that is
establishing a model for how to fix the problems, the
maladies of the origin in Europe, and like during the
seventeen nineties, as they look back, especially as supporters of
(08:17):
the French Revolution in the Italian state, especially those Italians,
start looking back, they start seeing the American Revolution as
the mother of the French evolution, as the beginning of
these liberation of humanity from the oppressive structures of the regime.
European monarchy is the church, and so they make it
(08:40):
into something more evolutionarily than they initially saw it, and
a model that has been more fully applied in France
and should work as an invitation to people everywhere in
Europe to topple existing regimes and build a new society
on a blank slates that will truly.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Restore the natural rights of men.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Over the course of the especially the seventeen eighties, they
observe they read about people like Washington Franklin, and they
start praising them consistently as examples of patriotism, selflessness.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
And especially of prudence.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
They recognize that in the American system of government there's
actually a lot that is in continuity, even though there
isn't a crown, a lot that is in continuity with
the British tradition of this government, that is learning from
the best of.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
That constitutional tradition.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
And so you have in Italy people who recognize that
continuity and praise Americans for their prudence and for not
claiming not trying to do something radically new. There's a
strong sense in the framers of the Constitution that human
(10:04):
nature is messy, is complicated. It's this complicated, messy mix
of good and evil impuses of being made in the
image of God. Therefore, the political constitution is a work
of complexity that involves a lot of prudence that needs
(10:25):
to account for the complexity of human nature itself, and
that there's wisdom in building on the wisdom of the
past and the ways in which the wisdom of the
past has tried to deal with that complexity.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
If you like the Michael Berry Show and Podcast, please
tell one friend, and if you're so inclined, write a
nice review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions, and interest
in being a corporate sponsor and partner can be communicated
directly to the show at our email address, Michael at
(11:03):
Michael Berryshow dot com, or simply by clicking on our website,
Michael Berryshow dot com. The Michael Berry Show and Podcast
is produced by Ramon Roebliss, The King of Ding. Executive
producer is Chad Nakanishi. Jim Mudd is the creative director.
(11:27):
Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery and Shenanigans are provided by Chance McLean.
Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily Bull is our
assistant listener and superfan. Contributions are appreciated and often incorporated
into our production. Where possible, we give credit, where not,
(11:50):
we take all the credit for ourselves. God bless the
memory of Rush Limbaugh, Long live Elvis, be a simple
man like Leonard Skinnard told you, and God bless America. Finally,
if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD, call Camp
Hope at eight seven seven seven one seven PTSD and
(12:15):
a combat veteran will answer the phone to provide free
counseling
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