July 8, 2025 • 33 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's that time, time, Time, Time, Luck and Load from
Michael Very Show is on the air.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Disturbing allegations about a Q sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein and
members of his social circle. Those allegations come from newly
unsealed documents from a now settled court case against Epstein
associate Elaine Maxwell. A woman claims that Maxwell groomed her
to be a sex slave to Epstein and was trafficked
to some of his most powerful associates.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
The training started immediately, give Jeffrey what he wants.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
A lot of this training came from Helen herself and
being a woman.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
It kind of surprises you that a woman could actually
let stuff like that happen, but not only let it happen,
but to groom you into doing it.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
These power players a priority for us right now. Can
we even touch them?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
No?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
It's like everything you know, we hides and planes fight.
Epstein was hiding in plane side. We all knew about.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Him, we all knew what he was doing, but we
had no one that would go after him.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
They were afraid of him. For whatever reason, they were afraid.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
The airplane that we flew on for this humanitarian mission
was owned by Jeffrey Epstein and to then learn, oh,
he was actually on some of those flights, and this
Maxwell woman was on some of those flights. I didn't
know him. I've never spent any time with him. I
was with the Clinton Foundation people, That's who I was with.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
She told me everything, she had pictures, she had everything.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
She wasn't hiding for twelve years.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
We convinced her to come out. We convinced her to
talk to us. It was unbelievable what we had Clinton,
We had everything. There's no question executives at ABC protected
Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Why do you think they did that well because their
star anchor's name is George Stepanopolis. And of course George
Stepanopolis worked as Bill Clinton's communications director at the White House.
And when was all of this information being given to
Amy worback at ABC? When did she bring all of
this to her executives to say we should put this
on the air.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Oh, right before our.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Twenty sixteen presidential election, when Hillary Clinton was running on
the Democratic ticket.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
At the time. Amy Robach took this story to her
superiors and they said, I don't know who Jeffrey Epstein is.
His name was already all over the news is a
convicted saxophone.
Speaker 6 (02:17):
Yeah, one of the things you've been talking about on
your show is your allegation that government officials are aiding
in Paracelia child trafficking and the gree of job right.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
You may like what Jeffrey Epstein, there is a disturbing
feeling in the land. Dan Bongino, I don't know him personally,
but I've always thought it was very worthright, straightforward, effective
talk show host, interesting past, which makes him an interesting
(02:53):
voice based on his life experience, now says there is
no Epstein list. After five years of saying there was
often cash Bettel now says no, no Epstein list. The
(03:13):
two of them together say Epstein killed himself, there's nobody else.
Wait a second, we know that the officers weren't around,
they're supposedly asleep. We know the cameras were just saying
we know all these things, and now you're just you're
gaslighting us. Why are they doing this? Who is making
(03:37):
this decision? If there is no Epstein list, then there
are no criminals. Why is Gielane Maxwell still in prison?
There are, of course, lots of rumors, allegations, fears, conspiracies
(04:00):
that there are foreign countries and organizations behind this effort.
Who was really running Jeffrey Epstein, who was really profiting
off of compromising pictures and videos of powerful people who
(04:24):
could be lured with the drug that gets most every man,
and that is sex with beautiful young ladies illegal too
young by the laws of any nation. You may have
this forbidden fruit. We will provide it to you, but
(04:50):
there will be a cost. And Jeffrey Epstein was the
smiling hell fellow well met who led people to believe
there would be no cost, but there was. So now
we're told, yeah, Epstein, no big deal. So why did
(05:10):
Pam Bondy say she had all the documents on her desk?
And then they brought the influencers down, and the influencer
were walking out, folks we all know, and they're holding
this binder full of documents. It's the Epstein List. And
then we find out that it's just a bunch of
(05:32):
pages with black blotches on it. There's literally nothing on it.
It's a bunch of pages that took a lot of
inat because there's just black boxes. Nothing is on the page.
And now we find out we're not going to find
out anything. This was one of the great conspiracies that
we all knew to be true and we all still
know to be true. And now we're being told by
(05:55):
the top members of the administration though, focus on the Democrats. Wow.
The President over the weekend speaking and saying we're going
to leave deportations of farm workers to the farmers because
(06:16):
they know better than the other people.
Speaker 7 (06:17):
And the right wing, the cranky right wing, won't like it.
Wait what, Wait, what we're going to Wait, We're just
supposed to swallow that. I know I'm going to get
primary now. I know I'm not helping the president like
(06:38):
I'm supposed to.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I know I'm being a bad guy. I know this.
You shouldn't do this, folks. Are we just supposed to trust?
And no matter what happens today we find out we're
sending more weapons to Ukraine? Are we just supposed to
Is that what we're going to do? Is that everybody's
going to do this? And if you dare question, if
(07:02):
you dare question, and you're not on the Trump train anymore,
You're not maga, You're not a bad You're not a
good person. This, folks, Is this Tim phiel right aim
of the Gulf of Mexico to the golf of Michael Berry,
which has a beautiful way. The reason I spend so
much time reading emails is because of emails like this, Well,
(07:28):
it keeps me in touch with you. I get a
lot of feedback on the show. Little things you like,
where you live, what you do, your perspective, things I
hadn't thought about, books, movies. Here's a clip of a
speech you need to hear, a Ted talk on this.
Have you ever considered this? I found this interesting. I
think you're wrong on this, and I find that engagement
(07:49):
to be very fulfilling. And I think in the process
we've created something of a community. So from Friday, with
the horrible storms in central Texas, in the Texas Hill Country,
I was getting a lot of messages from mothers and
fathers and grandparents and aunts and uncles and teachers and
coaches who knew this or that person involved, whether it
(08:12):
was a counselor or a camper or a staffer, or
just people who were in that community who were also
affected law enforcement, and it gets to be makes you know,
and it gives you a foreboding sort of exhausting sense
because you can't do anything about it. Where you're sitting
(08:35):
and you're hoping for good news, and all you can
imagine is a grief. There's an empathy toward a parent
that's having to go through this, and then you start
thinking about the little girls and what they went through.
And as a parent, as I told you yesterday, Crockett
my youngest, and Michael, my oldest, they're eighteen and nineteen.
They've for the last couple of years gone to a
(08:56):
youth camp with a group called Young Life, which is
a Christian youth group, and they go to Colorado and
they do Bible study in the mountains and they sleep
outdoors and it's a wonderful, wonderful experience and they really
really get close to the Lord and they read their
Bible and it's a journey spiritually as well as physically,
and they both come back very strong, and I enjoy it.
(09:19):
I enjoy it for them, but I also worry they're
out on the side of a mountain. I hike mountains
in Colorado. I know what's out there, and so you
just want your precious little ones to come home. And yeah,
my eighteen and nineteen year olds are still precious little
ones to me. So with everything going on, with the
floods and the little girls there. I got an email
(09:40):
that kind of stuck out. It was a little different,
and I would like to read it to you, it
said Michael. As the coverage around the floods continues to
shift toward politics and agendas, I keep thinking about the families,
the ones quietly carrying the deep personal grief behind the headlines.
It's something I know all too well. I'm Carly McCord's mom, Carly,
(10:05):
who was an ESPN reporter that you can easily pull
up on the internet. That day changed my life, my families.
That day changed my family's life forever. The Today Show,
as well as many national and international news outlets, covered
this story back in December of twenty nineteen. I'm reaching
out to ask if you'd be interested in doing a
story about this topic oneting rooted in compassion and honesty.
(10:29):
Not to promote my recent book Only Rainbows, the Carly
McCord Story, but simply to talk about what it's like
to live through a public tragedy from the inside out,
the part that no one sees, the grief that lingers
after the cameras are gone. So Karen McCord is our
guest Karen. First of all, thank you for reaching out.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Oh thank you. I appreciate it, love your show, and
I do.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Want to talk about your efforts or your daughter. With
Only Rainbow was your book before we were done, so
I'm giving you carte blanche that I do want to
get to that in a moment. Let's start with something
I'm sure you've had to tell a thousand times, but
I can't imagine it ever gets easier. Tell me about
(11:15):
the LSU football game where your daughter the ESPN reporter
who I actually met. I don't know if you saw
my email I did. I I was m seeing an
event for the Louisiana Pediatric Cardiology Association at the request
of Michael Hudson, my friend who ran our radio station
at the time, and he had a daughter, Charlie, who
(11:35):
had a hole in her heart. So every year I
would m see that thing. And Steve Imsminger was there,
the offensive coordinator for the LSU at the time, and
his son and your daughter, and they were dancing, and
he brought them over and we talked, and it was
it was a great evening. It wasn't a deep conversation,
but it was a neat story and Lsu was riding
(11:56):
high and that was a lot of fun. Talk me
through that horrible day and how it all happened.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Okay, well, you know what, Michael. The first thing is
you said, I was shopping at fresh Market and I
was doing my grocery shopping and that sort of thing.
And I had checked out my grocery store from the
grocery store, and I looked at the lady and I said, oh,
I have a coffee and she said, oh, no, the
coffee's on me. You're going to need it. And I
(12:27):
didn't know what she meant by that. And as I
walked to my car, I was looking at the time
and I realized that Carley had not called me, because
she had promised to call me, you know, when she
had got there and when she had arrived. And I said, oh,
it's getting a little late, but she's probably running into
the press box and doing her thing, and so I'll
just text her in a few minutes. At that time,
(12:48):
and this is where the story does get public and
gets kind of purple to us. At that time, one
of her friends called me up and said, Karen, tell
me it's not true. And I said, what are you
talking about? It's not true. And she hung up on me,
and then all of a sudden, I called it back.
She goes, please tell me, it's not true the plane crash,
(13:09):
and then she hung up on me again, and at
that time, you know, I called her back and she
told me, she said, there there's one survivor, but there's
been a plane crash and four people have died. And
so I realized at this point everybody, you know, it
had hit media and all over the uh, you know,
(13:31):
the airwaves and that sort of thing. But my husband
and I had no idea what was going on. And
so I called Tracy, who is my husband, and we
ran over to his mom's to tell her, you know,
that Carly had probably passed away or there was a
plane crash, and but we will holding on to hope
(13:51):
because the hope was is that there was one survivor,
and for some reason, you know, I was holding out
hope that that one survival was Carly. But the rest
of the world knew it wasn't Carly because she was
the first one to be identified. But you know, I
look back on that, Michael, and to realize, you know,
(14:12):
you think that people call or you know, they don't
hit the airwaves before you know, the family is notified.
Those days are over because of social media and you know,
news being in the you know, traveling so quickly. It was,
like I said, all over the place before we knew it.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I was not aware of all that. I'm just processing,
you know that there's so many layers to grief. I
don't know how much you've watched of the floodwaters in Houston,
I mean in Purville, but you know, first you get
the news your daughter's missing, and then oh, they're bringing
(14:54):
them in. They found her, and then oh, no, they haven't,
and then she's still missing, and the hours linger on
and just linger and linger, and with each new development
you want to be notified your daughter was found, but
not among the perished. And it's just losing a child
(15:15):
is enough to deal with. To have to deal with
that level as well. Karen McCord is our guest. Her
daughter was the ESPN reporter married to the offensive coordinator
for LSU, and on the way to a game where
she was working as a sports reporter, the plane crash
and she died. We're talking about the grief therefore, listen
(15:36):
to the Michael Berry Show podcast if you dare. Aaron
McCord is our guest. Her daughter was Carly McCord. She
was on her way to an LSU football game in
that amazing twenty nineteen season, and she would find out
(15:58):
after everyone else, because he'd been on national television, that
her daughter had perished in a plane crash. The story
is available on the internet. You can find it rather easily.
You'd probably remember it at the time, but we're talking
about the grief of a parent, with so many of
my neighbors in Houston losing loved ones in the floodwaters
(16:21):
of Kerrville in these floods of late and everybody's affected
in one way or another by natural disaster, violence, accident,
and it's a position we're all going to go through
one way or another. Karen McCord offers some ways that
she dealt with that. So you get the news and
(16:42):
you and your husband realize, Okay, your daughter is not
one of this is not the loan survivor. She has perished.
What happens to you physically and mentally at that moment,
to the extent you remember.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
You know, it's so interesting, And the reason is is
because you got to remember everybody in Baton rouge. Not everybody,
of course, but you know, most people in that ruge
are celebrating because this is a big deal, you know
in Tiger country, is that we're this close to the
national championship plus the Heisman Trophy. Joe Burrough, you know,
the whole season was a dream team. And you know, Michael,
(17:19):
the first thing I thought to myself was is, oh
my god, I've been pulling for the wrong team this
whole season, because if Alabama had been in this position
and had won, you know, the SEC championship or the
semi finals, you know, this crash wouldn't have happened. But
at that moment, I, first of all, we were planning.
(17:43):
The reason why I was at the grocery store was
is we were planning this huge party, so all of
a sudden, it was like a big crash. And then
I can remember looking at the television and looking at
Carly's father in law, who was Stevens at the time,
and he was wiping tears from his eyes, and he
(18:04):
looked and I thought, I had this strange thought about
how this was the one of the highest or if
not the highest point of his career, yet it was
the greatest tragedy that had ever happened, probably in his life.
You know, his son lost his wife of almost two years,
(18:26):
and I could just remember, you know, thinking that the
high of the day turned into the lowest part of
the day, and as the days progressed. This is where
people don't understand.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
It's like all of a sudden, social media, you know,
started to come into play, and this is what's going
to happen with the flood victims. It's probably already happened
with the flood victims. But you know, stories come out
under the social media. Is like Carly was pregnant. Well, no,
she wasn't pregnant, but at the time when I read
it and heard it, I'm like, oh my god, that
(19:03):
adds even another layer. Or you know, how dare her
father in law coach in that game? Well, Carly and
coach Steve Ensminger know that in sports, you play the game.
You get out there and play the game, and then
you deal with your personal emotions afterwards. Currently would have
(19:24):
wanted Steve to go out there and coach that game.
It wouldn't have been an option for her, and it
wasn't an option for him.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And I saw that coach Orgeron, who I adore. We're
not best friends, but I got the opportunity to spend
some time with him and interview him, and we were
texting buddies for a while. I think Orgeron is a
fascinating cat. I think he's a great week he is.
But I saw after the game where he was asked
(19:54):
about that, and you could tell he was for klemped.
He didn't know how to deal with it, and he said,
that's the kind of guy Steve Ensminger is. He's called
maybe the best game of his life after that bad
news because he owed that to the team. And then
and then Burrow didn't know. They go to Joe Burrow
and he says, he says, I'll have to talk to
(20:16):
coach about that. I wasn't aware. I guess some of
the players knew that he didn't and you didn't.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
And you know, Michael, I'm going to stop you there
because one of the announcers at the very end said
he turned to Joe Burrow after that emotional thing and
he says, hey, get me a T shirt, and you know,
you're like what you know? And that was piercing to us.
You know what I'm saying the whole interview wasn't piercing
to us, because those things happen when you're in the media.
(20:44):
But when I turns to him and says, oh, and
by the way, Joe, don't forget me to get me
a T shirt when you get a chance, and I'm
like a T shirt. My daughter died. You know, wow,
it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
It was So let's talk about the stages of grief
for you. And you know, there's lots written about it,
there's lots of therapist who's spoken about it. But let's
talk about how when you got this tragic news and
it's very public and it's being carried and she's an
ESPN reporter and LSU and all and her father in laws,
(21:17):
Let's talk about how you dealt with that grief, what
you did right and what you did wrong?
Speaker 7 (21:22):
Right?
Speaker 3 (21:23):
And there were a lot of things I did right
and there are a lot of things, you know, that
we could have done better. The first thing is is
that people don't realize that even though everybody's still talking
about the tragedy and talking about the National Championship, we're
picking Paul Bearrys out, We're picking Earns out for my
daughter we're making funeral arrangements, and so while the internet
(21:45):
is going crazy and that sort of thing, you know,
we are behind the scenes doing all the things that
parents have to do to prepare for their child's deaf
And that's the things people don't see. They don't see
that behind the scenes where we're calling Mike to Tellier
to read at Carly's funeral because two years ago, two
(22:08):
years earlier, as he read for the wedding, And so
that was one of the first things that was just
heartbroaking and piercing. But the second thing is is that
all of a sudden we realized that we were and
I used this word but it's probably not the correct words,
but we were celebrities. And the fact that we could
not go anywhere without without having the look, a look
(22:34):
of sadness from people or how are you doing? Or
we couldn't go we couldn't go to the grocery store
without being bombarded with lots of questions. And people mean well,
they truly truly do mean well. But looking back on it,
I probably would have gone more incognito to places, but
(22:54):
I had no idea that I was my family was
going to be bombarded with this publicity, So that was
something that I learned in grief. I also I had
this need, an overwhelming need to make something positive come
out of this tragedy. Even at that moment, I kept
(23:17):
thinking to myself, I need to do something. I can't
make this so negative. I have to make it positive.
But as I was going through that, my husband was
going inward, as I wanted to go outward. My daughter
started her scholarship, Carly's scholarship at Northwestern State quickly, and
(23:42):
my son became the rock. We all took a different role,
and so my outward and my need to make something
positive come from the tragedy really upset Tracy because he
wanted to stay.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Inward in his and we all believe differently. I have
experienced this, we all grieve different But everybody knows who
this guy is.
Speaker 6 (24:09):
Come on, man with.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
The Michael Berry, come on. Sharon McCord is our guest.
If you google the name Carly McCord, you will see
that she was an ESPN reporter, a beautiful young lady
well known in the sports world. She was on a
private jet flying into Lafayette, Louisiana, and the jet crashed
(24:35):
and she perished and her mother is sharing some perspectives
on what it was like to have the loss of
a young one way too early, much like these these
floods in Texas, and how you deal with the layers
of grief, and how different that was for her and
her husband to go through. Karen, I'll just pick up
where we were. Your husband wanted to kind of retreat
(24:58):
and heal, and you I wanted to make something good
come of it, which is perfectly understandable for each of you.
How did that work itself out?
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Well? I wrote the book. My husband has yet to
read it, but now I have learned that I need
to go ahead and to respect his prophecy. He doesn't
have to listen to this to the Michael Berry Show,
although he loves you so much, he probably will, but anyway,
but you know, he has not read the book. My
(25:28):
son hasn't read the book. My daughter hasn't read the book.
Because I now realized that as public as I want
to go, they don't have to take the journey with me.
They can take their own journey. However, I am going
to say this sounds very easy, but there were many, many,
many days that I felt as though we were all
walking on shards of glass and we were going to
(25:51):
just stick ourselves and bleed out. We were hanging on
as a family by a thread. The good word is
is a family. We really started to we really learned
how to define the word family and that we were
going to get through this. But it wasn't without trials,
(26:12):
tribulations and piercing heartbreaks. You know, right after Carly died,
COVID hit and so the world shut down and Tracy
and I were in isolation. So my need for seeing
people and being with my mom was so great. But
(26:34):
my mom was in a nursing home and she had
Alzheimer's and so by the time I got to see
her again, you know, I'm like, Mom, I needed you,
And she looked at me and she said, I love you, Gloria.
She had not even remembered my name. And I can
remember just feeling so deeply depressed because, you know, I
(26:57):
needed my mom during that time, and she was there,
even if it was even if she I needed her
just to talk about it and tell her mom Carly
died and you know, just spill my goods to her.
You know, I couldn't. And when I finally did see her,
you know, like I said, I did not remember her.
Tracy actually began experiencing physical illness and he would run
(27:22):
one hundred and five grades of fever. They would think
he was dying of COVID. They took COVID tests over
and over again, and finally the doctor looked at Tracy
and said, Tracy, you don't have COVID. You're dying. You're
not dying, but you have a broken heart and it's
killing you slowly. And so we had to deal with
things like that. And you know, like I said, the
(27:45):
COVID didn't help, and it didn't help with the sports
world either because you know, the next year or the
next fall when sports was going to kick back up,
we you know, the sports world was so different. I
couldn't look at football. I couldn't look at baseball, you know,
(28:06):
I couldn't look at basketball, because she covered all those sports.
And even though everybody was in isolation, I still couldn't
even begin to fathom twenty people in the stadium and
how Carly would have reacted to the COVID season. And
so there were so many layers of this, and that's
(28:30):
one of the reasons why I reached out to you. Michael,
was is that. You know, I have insight into the
journey of ahead of these people that are going to experience,
These people who lost their children and lost loved ones
in this flood, I know what they're going to go through,
and I would like to ask the audience to please
(28:53):
not put agendas to this. Stop blaming Donald Trump because
of this, and please don't think I'm politicizing this. But
this is this is mother nature. Let them deal with it,
you know, and your opinions, yes, that's part of social media.
(29:13):
But when you write your opinions and social media, when
you write your opinions on the internet, remember there are
other people on the other side that are grieving and
they don't want to hear that it was a political
reason because it was a mother nature thing. Yes we
could learn from this, Yes we could grow from this.
(29:34):
But to place blame and to place blame so quickly,
it's painful for the people who are grieving.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
You know, like most things in society, and social media
only becomes a reflection of this. It doesn't cause it.
It becomes a reflection of it. Most people see everything
through the lens of their own experience. They are offended
or I died by what someone says in a public speech,
in a movie, in writing based on whether they feel
(30:07):
it complements or insults their own life decisions and journey.
And I think that that's a natural tendency, but I
think it can be frustrating to other people. I don't
think that most people consider when they write something that's
going to on a public wall, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, that
(30:27):
they consider that the mother of that child's going to
read it. And I say that with a very with
a very specific set of life experiences, and that being
that people will send me an email that I'm an
sb mf awful person, hater did it. And I will
send back and say, I probably am all of those things,
but could you give me the specific reason you're saying.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
That, so that at least I know, And often I
don't get yea.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Often I don't get the response until the next morning,
where I am informed that they shouldn't be aren't texting,
or I'll get the I'll get the response that you
know what, I never expected you to read it, and
so it becomes this sort of I don't think people
consider the consequence that you're putting something in the middle
(31:16):
of the street and you just never know who's going
to drive by. I have about thirty seconds and that's
too little time. But can you tell me about the book,
Karen McCord, I want to make sure we do that
and how to get it.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yes, it is only Rainbows to Carlee McCord story. It
is on Amazon and it is on Barnes and Nobles,
and hopefully it's going to be going national real soon.
We're real excited about that. If you know. One of
the things is that one of the things that helped
me was is people gave me books and I read them.
One of them was The Shack beautifully written book, and
(31:48):
I kept referring back to it over and over again.
So when people are breathing, a book is a really
nice gift to give. And so hopefully that's one of
the ways that I can give back. And if I
can share a quick story, let me see if I
can get it in within ten seconds. I went to
a Greek counselor and she said, Karen, she said, what
(32:09):
was the worst day of your life? And I looked
at her and I said December eighth, twenty nineteenth, of course,
And she says, we'll stay with me, and she said,
what would you have done differently. And I said I
would have stopped that plane, whether or not I had
to jump on the wings of the plane, I would
have stopped that plane. And she looked at me and
she said, ah, so you would have played God. And
(32:30):
I said no, I would have played a mom loving
her daughter, stopping from her plunging from her death. And
she said, Karen, don't you think God could have stopped
it as well? And I said yes, but I'm not God.
And she goes, Karen, but God didn't stop it because
and he didn't stop you from stopping it, because it
(32:52):
wasn't yours to change. It was her time, and Michael's deep, deep,
deep in my soul, I knew she was right. It
was Carly's time. As hard as that was to realize,
I realized that God took her because that was as
long as she needed to live.
It's that time, time, Time, Time, Luck and Load from
Michael Very Show is on the air.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Disturbing allegations about a Q sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein and
members of his social circle. Those allegations come from newly
unsealed documents from a now settled court case against Epstein
associate Elaine Maxwell. A woman claims that Maxwell groomed her
to be a sex slave to Epstein and was trafficked
to some of his most powerful associates.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
The training started immediately, give Jeffrey what he wants.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
A lot of this training came from Helen herself and
being a woman.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
It kind of surprises you that a woman could actually
let stuff like that happen, but not only let it happen,
but to groom you into doing it.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
These power players a priority for us right now. Can
we even touch them?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
No?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
It's like everything you know, we hides and planes fight.
Epstein was hiding in plane side. We all knew about.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Him, we all knew what he was doing, but we
had no one that would go after him.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
They were afraid of him. For whatever reason, they were afraid.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
The airplane that we flew on for this humanitarian mission
was owned by Jeffrey Epstein and to then learn, oh,
he was actually on some of those flights, and this
Maxwell woman was on some of those flights. I didn't
know him. I've never spent any time with him. I
was with the Clinton Foundation people, That's who I was with.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
She told me everything, she had pictures, she had everything.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
She wasn't hiding for twelve years.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
We convinced her to come out. We convinced her to
talk to us. It was unbelievable what we had Clinton,
We had everything. There's no question executives at ABC protected
Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Why do you think they did that well because their
star anchor's name is George Stepanopolis. And of course George
Stepanopolis worked as Bill Clinton's communications director at the White House.
And when was all of this information being given to
Amy worback at ABC? When did she bring all of
this to her executives to say we should put this
on the air.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Oh, right before our.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Twenty sixteen presidential election, when Hillary Clinton was running on
the Democratic ticket.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
At the time. Amy Robach took this story to her
superiors and they said, I don't know who Jeffrey Epstein is.
His name was already all over the news is a
convicted saxophone.
Speaker 6 (02:17):
Yeah, one of the things you've been talking about on
your show is your allegation that government officials are aiding
in Paracelia child trafficking and the gree of job right.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
You may like what Jeffrey Epstein, there is a disturbing
feeling in the land. Dan Bongino, I don't know him personally,
but I've always thought it was very worthright, straightforward, effective
talk show host, interesting past, which makes him an interesting
(02:53):
voice based on his life experience, now says there is
no Epstein list. After five years of saying there was
often cash Bettel now says no, no Epstein list. The
(03:13):
two of them together say Epstein killed himself, there's nobody else.
Wait a second, we know that the officers weren't around,
they're supposedly asleep. We know the cameras were just saying
we know all these things, and now you're just you're
gaslighting us. Why are they doing this? Who is making
(03:37):
this decision? If there is no Epstein list, then there
are no criminals. Why is Gielane Maxwell still in prison?
There are, of course, lots of rumors, allegations, fears, conspiracies
(04:00):
that there are foreign countries and organizations behind this effort.
Who was really running Jeffrey Epstein, who was really profiting
off of compromising pictures and videos of powerful people who
(04:24):
could be lured with the drug that gets most every man,
and that is sex with beautiful young ladies illegal too
young by the laws of any nation. You may have
this forbidden fruit. We will provide it to you, but
(04:50):
there will be a cost. And Jeffrey Epstein was the
smiling hell fellow well met who led people to believe
there would be no cost, but there was. So now
we're told, yeah, Epstein, no big deal. So why did
(05:10):
Pam Bondy say she had all the documents on her desk?
And then they brought the influencers down, and the influencer
were walking out, folks we all know, and they're holding
this binder full of documents. It's the Epstein List. And
then we find out that it's just a bunch of
(05:32):
pages with black blotches on it. There's literally nothing on it.
It's a bunch of pages that took a lot of
inat because there's just black boxes. Nothing is on the page.
And now we find out we're not going to find
out anything. This was one of the great conspiracies that
we all knew to be true and we all still
know to be true. And now we're being told by
(05:55):
the top members of the administration though, focus on the Democrats. Wow.
The President over the weekend speaking and saying we're going
to leave deportations of farm workers to the farmers because
(06:16):
they know better than the other people.
Speaker 7 (06:17):
And the right wing, the cranky right wing, won't like it.
Wait what, Wait, what we're going to Wait, We're just
supposed to swallow that. I know I'm going to get
primary now. I know I'm not helping the president like
(06:38):
I'm supposed to.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I know I'm being a bad guy. I know this.
You shouldn't do this, folks. Are we just supposed to trust?
And no matter what happens today we find out we're
sending more weapons to Ukraine? Are we just supposed to
Is that what we're going to do? Is that everybody's
going to do this? And if you dare question, if
(07:02):
you dare question, and you're not on the Trump train anymore,
You're not maga, You're not a bad You're not a
good person. This, folks, Is this Tim phiel right aim
of the Gulf of Mexico to the golf of Michael Berry,
which has a beautiful way. The reason I spend so
much time reading emails is because of emails like this, Well,
(07:28):
it keeps me in touch with you. I get a
lot of feedback on the show. Little things you like,
where you live, what you do, your perspective, things I
hadn't thought about, books, movies. Here's a clip of a
speech you need to hear, a Ted talk on this.
Have you ever considered this? I found this interesting. I
think you're wrong on this, and I find that engagement
(07:49):
to be very fulfilling. And I think in the process
we've created something of a community. So from Friday, with
the horrible storms in central Texas, in the Texas Hill Country,
I was getting a lot of messages from mothers and
fathers and grandparents and aunts and uncles and teachers and
coaches who knew this or that person involved, whether it
(08:12):
was a counselor or a camper or a staffer, or
just people who were in that community who were also
affected law enforcement, and it gets to be makes you know,
and it gives you a foreboding sort of exhausting sense
because you can't do anything about it. Where you're sitting
(08:35):
and you're hoping for good news, and all you can
imagine is a grief. There's an empathy toward a parent
that's having to go through this, and then you start
thinking about the little girls and what they went through.
And as a parent, as I told you yesterday, Crockett
my youngest, and Michael, my oldest, they're eighteen and nineteen.
They've for the last couple of years gone to a
(08:56):
youth camp with a group called Young Life, which is
a Christian youth group, and they go to Colorado and
they do Bible study in the mountains and they sleep
outdoors and it's a wonderful, wonderful experience and they really
really get close to the Lord and they read their
Bible and it's a journey spiritually as well as physically,
and they both come back very strong, and I enjoy it.
(09:19):
I enjoy it for them, but I also worry they're
out on the side of a mountain. I hike mountains
in Colorado. I know what's out there, and so you
just want your precious little ones to come home. And yeah,
my eighteen and nineteen year olds are still precious little
ones to me. So with everything going on, with the
floods and the little girls there. I got an email
(09:40):
that kind of stuck out. It was a little different,
and I would like to read it to you, it
said Michael. As the coverage around the floods continues to
shift toward politics and agendas, I keep thinking about the families,
the ones quietly carrying the deep personal grief behind the headlines.
It's something I know all too well. I'm Carly McCord's mom, Carly,
(10:05):
who was an ESPN reporter that you can easily pull
up on the internet. That day changed my life, my families.
That day changed my family's life forever. The Today Show,
as well as many national and international news outlets, covered
this story back in December of twenty nineteen. I'm reaching
out to ask if you'd be interested in doing a
story about this topic oneting rooted in compassion and honesty.
(10:29):
Not to promote my recent book Only Rainbows, the Carly
McCord Story, but simply to talk about what it's like
to live through a public tragedy from the inside out,
the part that no one sees, the grief that lingers
after the cameras are gone. So Karen McCord is our
guest Karen. First of all, thank you for reaching out.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Oh thank you. I appreciate it, love your show, and
I do.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Want to talk about your efforts or your daughter. With
Only Rainbow was your book before we were done, so
I'm giving you carte blanche that I do want to
get to that in a moment. Let's start with something
I'm sure you've had to tell a thousand times, but
I can't imagine it ever gets easier. Tell me about
(11:15):
the LSU football game where your daughter the ESPN reporter
who I actually met. I don't know if you saw
my email I did. I I was m seeing an
event for the Louisiana Pediatric Cardiology Association at the request
of Michael Hudson, my friend who ran our radio station
at the time, and he had a daughter, Charlie, who
(11:35):
had a hole in her heart. So every year I
would m see that thing. And Steve Imsminger was there,
the offensive coordinator for the LSU at the time, and
his son and your daughter, and they were dancing, and
he brought them over and we talked, and it was
it was a great evening. It wasn't a deep conversation,
but it was a neat story and Lsu was riding
(11:56):
high and that was a lot of fun. Talk me
through that horrible day and how it all happened.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Okay, well, you know what, Michael. The first thing is
you said, I was shopping at fresh Market and I
was doing my grocery shopping and that sort of thing.
And I had checked out my grocery store from the
grocery store, and I looked at the lady and I said, oh,
I have a coffee and she said, oh, no, the
coffee's on me. You're going to need it. And I
(12:27):
didn't know what she meant by that. And as I
walked to my car, I was looking at the time
and I realized that Carley had not called me, because
she had promised to call me, you know, when she
had got there and when she had arrived. And I said, oh,
it's getting a little late, but she's probably running into
the press box and doing her thing, and so I'll
just text her in a few minutes. At that time,
(12:48):
and this is where the story does get public and
gets kind of purple to us. At that time, one
of her friends called me up and said, Karen, tell
me it's not true. And I said, what are you
talking about? It's not true. And she hung up on me,
and then all of a sudden, I called it back.
She goes, please tell me, it's not true the plane crash,
(13:09):
and then she hung up on me again, and at
that time, you know, I called her back and she
told me, she said, there there's one survivor, but there's
been a plane crash and four people have died. And
so I realized at this point everybody, you know, it
had hit media and all over the uh, you know,
(13:31):
the airwaves and that sort of thing. But my husband
and I had no idea what was going on. And
so I called Tracy, who is my husband, and we
ran over to his mom's to tell her, you know,
that Carly had probably passed away or there was a
plane crash, and but we will holding on to hope
(13:51):
because the hope was is that there was one survivor,
and for some reason, you know, I was holding out
hope that that one survival was Carly. But the rest
of the world knew it wasn't Carly because she was
the first one to be identified. But you know, I
look back on that, Michael, and to realize, you know,
(14:12):
you think that people call or you know, they don't
hit the airwaves before you know, the family is notified.
Those days are over because of social media and you know,
news being in the you know, traveling so quickly. It was,
like I said, all over the place before we knew it.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I was not aware of all that. I'm just processing,
you know that there's so many layers to grief. I
don't know how much you've watched of the floodwaters in Houston,
I mean in Purville, but you know, first you get
the news your daughter's missing, and then oh, they're bringing
(14:54):
them in. They found her, and then oh, no, they haven't,
and then she's still missing, and the hours linger on
and just linger and linger, and with each new development
you want to be notified your daughter was found, but
not among the perished. And it's just losing a child
(15:15):
is enough to deal with. To have to deal with
that level as well. Karen McCord is our guest. Her
daughter was the ESPN reporter married to the offensive coordinator
for LSU, and on the way to a game where
she was working as a sports reporter, the plane crash
and she died. We're talking about the grief therefore, listen
(15:36):
to the Michael Berry Show podcast if you dare. Aaron
McCord is our guest. Her daughter was Carly McCord. She
was on her way to an LSU football game in
that amazing twenty nineteen season, and she would find out
(15:58):
after everyone else, because he'd been on national television, that
her daughter had perished in a plane crash. The story
is available on the internet. You can find it rather easily.
You'd probably remember it at the time, but we're talking
about the grief of a parent, with so many of
my neighbors in Houston losing loved ones in the floodwaters
(16:21):
of Kerrville in these floods of late and everybody's affected
in one way or another by natural disaster, violence, accident,
and it's a position we're all going to go through
one way or another. Karen McCord offers some ways that
she dealt with that. So you get the news and
(16:42):
you and your husband realize, Okay, your daughter is not
one of this is not the loan survivor. She has perished.
What happens to you physically and mentally at that moment,
to the extent you remember.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
You know, it's so interesting, And the reason is is
because you got to remember everybody in Baton rouge. Not everybody,
of course, but you know, most people in that ruge
are celebrating because this is a big deal, you know
in Tiger country, is that we're this close to the
national championship plus the Heisman Trophy. Joe Burrough, you know,
the whole season was a dream team. And you know, Michael,
(17:19):
the first thing I thought to myself was is, oh
my god, I've been pulling for the wrong team this
whole season, because if Alabama had been in this position
and had won, you know, the SEC championship or the
semi finals, you know, this crash wouldn't have happened. But
at that moment, I, first of all, we were planning.
(17:43):
The reason why I was at the grocery store was
is we were planning this huge party, so all of
a sudden, it was like a big crash. And then
I can remember looking at the television and looking at
Carly's father in law, who was Stevens at the time,
and he was wiping tears from his eyes, and he
(18:04):
looked and I thought, I had this strange thought about
how this was the one of the highest or if
not the highest point of his career, yet it was
the greatest tragedy that had ever happened, probably in his life.
You know, his son lost his wife of almost two years,
(18:26):
and I could just remember, you know, thinking that the
high of the day turned into the lowest part of
the day, and as the days progressed. This is where
people don't understand.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
It's like all of a sudden, social media, you know,
started to come into play, and this is what's going
to happen with the flood victims. It's probably already happened
with the flood victims. But you know, stories come out
under the social media. Is like Carly was pregnant. Well, no,
she wasn't pregnant, but at the time when I read
it and heard it, I'm like, oh my god, that
(19:03):
adds even another layer. Or you know, how dare her
father in law coach in that game? Well, Carly and
coach Steve Ensminger know that in sports, you play the game.
You get out there and play the game, and then
you deal with your personal emotions afterwards. Currently would have
(19:24):
wanted Steve to go out there and coach that game.
It wouldn't have been an option for her, and it
wasn't an option for him.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And I saw that coach Orgeron, who I adore. We're
not best friends, but I got the opportunity to spend
some time with him and interview him, and we were
texting buddies for a while. I think Orgeron is a
fascinating cat. I think he's a great week he is.
But I saw after the game where he was asked
(19:54):
about that, and you could tell he was for klemped.
He didn't know how to deal with it, and he said,
that's the kind of guy Steve Ensminger is. He's called
maybe the best game of his life after that bad
news because he owed that to the team. And then
and then Burrow didn't know. They go to Joe Burrow
and he says, he says, I'll have to talk to
(20:16):
coach about that. I wasn't aware. I guess some of
the players knew that he didn't and you didn't.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
And you know, Michael, I'm going to stop you there
because one of the announcers at the very end said
he turned to Joe Burrow after that emotional thing and
he says, hey, get me a T shirt, and you know,
you're like what you know? And that was piercing to us.
You know what I'm saying the whole interview wasn't piercing
to us, because those things happen when you're in the media.
(20:44):
But when I turns to him and says, oh, and
by the way, Joe, don't forget me to get me
a T shirt when you get a chance, and I'm
like a T shirt. My daughter died. You know, wow,
it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
It was So let's talk about the stages of grief
for you. And you know, there's lots written about it,
there's lots of therapist who's spoken about it. But let's
talk about how when you got this tragic news and
it's very public and it's being carried and she's an
ESPN reporter and LSU and all and her father in laws,
(21:17):
Let's talk about how you dealt with that grief, what
you did right and what you did wrong?
Speaker 7 (21:22):
Right?
Speaker 3 (21:23):
And there were a lot of things I did right
and there are a lot of things, you know, that
we could have done better. The first thing is is
that people don't realize that even though everybody's still talking
about the tragedy and talking about the National Championship, we're
picking Paul Bearrys out, We're picking Earns out for my
daughter we're making funeral arrangements, and so while the internet
(21:45):
is going crazy and that sort of thing, you know,
we are behind the scenes doing all the things that
parents have to do to prepare for their child's deaf
And that's the things people don't see. They don't see
that behind the scenes where we're calling Mike to Tellier
to read at Carly's funeral because two years ago, two
(22:08):
years earlier, as he read for the wedding, And so
that was one of the first things that was just
heartbroaking and piercing. But the second thing is is that
all of a sudden we realized that we were and
I used this word but it's probably not the correct words,
but we were celebrities. And the fact that we could
not go anywhere without without having the look, a look
(22:34):
of sadness from people or how are you doing? Or
we couldn't go we couldn't go to the grocery store
without being bombarded with lots of questions. And people mean well,
they truly truly do mean well. But looking back on it,
I probably would have gone more incognito to places, but
(22:54):
I had no idea that I was my family was
going to be bombarded with this publicity, So that was
something that I learned in grief. I also I had
this need, an overwhelming need to make something positive come
out of this tragedy. Even at that moment, I kept
(23:17):
thinking to myself, I need to do something. I can't
make this so negative. I have to make it positive.
But as I was going through that, my husband was
going inward, as I wanted to go outward. My daughter
started her scholarship, Carly's scholarship at Northwestern State quickly, and
(23:42):
my son became the rock. We all took a different role,
and so my outward and my need to make something
positive come from the tragedy really upset Tracy because he
wanted to stay.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Inward in his and we all believe differently. I have
experienced this, we all grieve different But everybody knows who
this guy is.
Speaker 6 (24:09):
Come on, man with.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
The Michael Berry, come on. Sharon McCord is our guest.
If you google the name Carly McCord, you will see
that she was an ESPN reporter, a beautiful young lady
well known in the sports world. She was on a
private jet flying into Lafayette, Louisiana, and the jet crashed
(24:35):
and she perished and her mother is sharing some perspectives
on what it was like to have the loss of
a young one way too early, much like these these
floods in Texas, and how you deal with the layers
of grief, and how different that was for her and
her husband to go through. Karen, I'll just pick up
where we were. Your husband wanted to kind of retreat
(24:58):
and heal, and you I wanted to make something good
come of it, which is perfectly understandable for each of you.
How did that work itself out?
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Well? I wrote the book. My husband has yet to
read it, but now I have learned that I need
to go ahead and to respect his prophecy. He doesn't
have to listen to this to the Michael Berry Show,
although he loves you so much, he probably will, but anyway,
but you know, he has not read the book. My
(25:28):
son hasn't read the book. My daughter hasn't read the book.
Because I now realized that as public as I want
to go, they don't have to take the journey with me.
They can take their own journey. However, I am going
to say this sounds very easy, but there were many, many,
many days that I felt as though we were all
walking on shards of glass and we were going to
(25:51):
just stick ourselves and bleed out. We were hanging on
as a family by a thread. The good word is
is a family. We really started to we really learned
how to define the word family and that we were
going to get through this. But it wasn't without trials,
(26:12):
tribulations and piercing heartbreaks. You know, right after Carly died,
COVID hit and so the world shut down and Tracy
and I were in isolation. So my need for seeing
people and being with my mom was so great. But
(26:34):
my mom was in a nursing home and she had
Alzheimer's and so by the time I got to see
her again, you know, I'm like, Mom, I needed you,
And she looked at me and she said, I love you, Gloria.
She had not even remembered my name. And I can
remember just feeling so deeply depressed because, you know, I
(26:57):
needed my mom during that time, and she was there,
even if it was even if she I needed her
just to talk about it and tell her mom Carly
died and you know, just spill my goods to her.
You know, I couldn't. And when I finally did see her,
you know, like I said, I did not remember her.
Tracy actually began experiencing physical illness and he would run
(27:22):
one hundred and five grades of fever. They would think
he was dying of COVID. They took COVID tests over
and over again, and finally the doctor looked at Tracy
and said, Tracy, you don't have COVID. You're dying. You're
not dying, but you have a broken heart and it's
killing you slowly. And so we had to deal with
things like that. And you know, like I said, the
(27:45):
COVID didn't help, and it didn't help with the sports
world either because you know, the next year or the
next fall when sports was going to kick back up,
we you know, the sports world was so different. I
couldn't look at football. I couldn't look at baseball, you know,
(28:06):
I couldn't look at basketball, because she covered all those sports.
And even though everybody was in isolation, I still couldn't
even begin to fathom twenty people in the stadium and
how Carly would have reacted to the COVID season. And
so there were so many layers of this, and that's
(28:30):
one of the reasons why I reached out to you. Michael,
was is that. You know, I have insight into the
journey of ahead of these people that are going to experience,
These people who lost their children and lost loved ones
in this flood, I know what they're going to go through,
and I would like to ask the audience to please
(28:53):
not put agendas to this. Stop blaming Donald Trump because
of this, and please don't think I'm politicizing this. But
this is this is mother nature. Let them deal with it,
you know, and your opinions, yes, that's part of social media.
(29:13):
But when you write your opinions and social media, when
you write your opinions on the internet, remember there are
other people on the other side that are grieving and
they don't want to hear that it was a political
reason because it was a mother nature thing. Yes we
could learn from this, Yes we could grow from this.
(29:34):
But to place blame and to place blame so quickly,
it's painful for the people who are grieving.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
You know, like most things in society, and social media
only becomes a reflection of this. It doesn't cause it.
It becomes a reflection of it. Most people see everything
through the lens of their own experience. They are offended
or I died by what someone says in a public speech,
in a movie, in writing based on whether they feel
(30:07):
it complements or insults their own life decisions and journey.
And I think that that's a natural tendency, but I
think it can be frustrating to other people. I don't
think that most people consider when they write something that's
going to on a public wall, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, that
(30:27):
they consider that the mother of that child's going to
read it. And I say that with a very with
a very specific set of life experiences, and that being
that people will send me an email that I'm an
sb mf awful person, hater did it. And I will
send back and say, I probably am all of those things,
but could you give me the specific reason you're saying.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
That, so that at least I know, And often I
don't get yea.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Often I don't get the response until the next morning,
where I am informed that they shouldn't be aren't texting,
or I'll get the I'll get the response that you
know what, I never expected you to read it, and
so it becomes this sort of I don't think people
consider the consequence that you're putting something in the middle
(31:16):
of the street and you just never know who's going
to drive by. I have about thirty seconds and that's
too little time. But can you tell me about the book,
Karen McCord, I want to make sure we do that
and how to get it.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yes, it is only Rainbows to Carlee McCord story. It
is on Amazon and it is on Barnes and Nobles,
and hopefully it's going to be going national real soon.
We're real excited about that. If you know. One of
the things is that one of the things that helped
me was is people gave me books and I read them.
One of them was The Shack beautifully written book, and
(31:48):
I kept referring back to it over and over again.
So when people are breathing, a book is a really
nice gift to give. And so hopefully that's one of
the ways that I can give back. And if I
can share a quick story, let me see if I
can get it in within ten seconds. I went to
a Greek counselor and she said, Karen, she said, what
(32:09):
was the worst day of your life? And I looked
at her and I said December eighth, twenty nineteenth, of course,
And she says, we'll stay with me, and she said,
what would you have done differently. And I said I
would have stopped that plane, whether or not I had
to jump on the wings of the plane, I would
have stopped that plane. And she looked at me and
she said, ah, so you would have played God. And
(32:30):
I said no, I would have played a mom loving
her daughter, stopping from her plunging from her death. And
she said, Karen, don't you think God could have stopped
it as well? And I said yes, but I'm not God.
And she goes, Karen, but God didn't stop it because
and he didn't stop you from stopping it, because it
(32:52):
wasn't yours to change. It was her time, and Michael's deep, deep,
deep in my soul, I knew she was right. It
was Carly's time. As hard as that was to realize,
I realized that God took her because that was as
long as she needed to live.
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