December 31, 2025 • 33 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's that time. Time, time, time, luck and load. The
Michael Verie Show is on the air.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I'm going to prepare to offend a number of folks
with what I'm about to say, and I want to
make sure you understand before you email me.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm okay that you're offending.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Okay, I'm okay if I tell you I think Earl
Campbell's the greatest running back in the history of the NFL.
Because I love my love you Blue, and you say
that's offensive. I love Walter Payton or OJ Simpson or
Jim Brown or whoever that might very Sanders, whoever that
might be. I didn't say that expecting you to like
(01:00):
what I had to say. You tuned in, and you
should hope. I'm honest. If you never disagree with the
opinion of a host and you listen to them every day,
I got news for you. If two people always agree,
one of them is not necessary.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
And I got more news for you.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
If you never disagree with a single person, I mean,
with a host on a single issue, and you think
that is an endorsement of how great they are.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
It's not.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
That is a sign that they are reading the wind.
They are reading the tea leaves. They are telling you
what you want to hear. So I will tell you this.
I believe that there is an attack coordinated not necessarily
across the religions, but by other religions against Christians in
(01:57):
this country. I believe that, and I believe it comes
from people feeling left out if we talk about Christ
or the Bible and our faith because they're not part
of it. Well, guess what if I find out at
(02:17):
the Spenzil Fest in Texas that they've been doing polka
dancing last weekend and maybe I wasn't invited, I don't
get my feelings hurt.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
That's what they do.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
If in a public gathering people want to celebrate their family,
their tradition, their alma mater, even though I'm not part
of any of those, That's okay.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I'm a big boy.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
And in a pluralistic society, which is what everybody claims
they want.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
So you don't have these problems in China.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
You don't have these problems in Japan where you have
complete homogeneity, got complete dominance by a single race culture.
And what little bit you look at the Wigers in China,
the Muslims, and how the China, how the problems they've
had there.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
But I want to get back to the point here.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
When I'm appreciative that the President has taken up this issue,
and I am tired of people who I think agree
with him but are too chicken to say it publicly.
If you feel the need to say, hey, if you're
Jewish and offended, Hey if you're Muslim and offended. Hey
if you're Atheist and offended. Hey if you're Hindu and offended.
I hope you're not offended, But why are you worried
(03:40):
whether they're offended? Do you believe what you believe only
as long as no one else is offended. So if
you're spending more time worried about offending people who believe
in the supremacy of their God then you do practicing
(04:01):
and expressing your own faith, then maybe they are bigger
believers than you are. It is not your job to
coddle those who do not share your beliefs. We don't
murder others for not sharing our beliefs. Do you think
(04:22):
there are any other religions in the world who do.
We don't rape the women of those who do not
share our beliefs when we conquer their lands or defeat
them on the battlefield. We worship our God in our way. Now,
there are a number of Christians. See when Christians are
in the majority, they're very guilt ridden. They're not comfortable
(04:48):
with this, kind of like the Republicans. They don't like
to be in power. They'd rather be out of power.
We are better when persecuted. But when you hear people
say President Trump shouldn't talk about the Christian faith, that's
a violation of church and state. If you ever learn
anything from me ever, in the time that you listen
(05:10):
for one year or one hundred, let it be this.
Everything you know about the separation of church and state
is wrong. Of the ten commandments the first and they're
laid out in Exodus twenty and Deuteronomy. I think it's
(05:31):
four five Deuteronomy five. The first commandment, thou shalt have
no other gods before me. Well, you're a white supremacist. No,
I'm not a white supremacist in the sense that I'm
trying to subjugate other people. But am I proud of
(05:54):
my people? Am I proud of people who look like me?
Am I proud of my heritage? Am I proud of
the culture? Yes, I am, And your attempt to make
me ashamed of it. That works on other people, not
on me. But here is let me get to this quickly.
The idea of the separation of church and state did
(06:16):
not mean that the church will not be involved in
the state. It meant that the state will not be
involved in the church. And what happened is that the
King of England was having problems in his marriage, couldn't
get what he wanted from the pope. So he declared,
I'm the King of the Church of England, my own church.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Pope begone.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I'll issue the rulings, I'll issue the indulgences in charge
for him.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
So here is.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Jefferson wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptist and they
were worried about this. And he says, believing with you
that religion is a matter which lies solely between man
and his God, that he owes account to none other
for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers
of government reach actions only and not opinions. I contemplate
(07:10):
with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people
which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting
an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,
thus building a wall of separation between church and state.
What he is saying is that Congress that in our
(07:33):
founding documents. In that founding document, we said, Congress shall
make no law respecting an establishment of religion. Congress shall
not determine who is and isn't a Christian, or a Jew,
or a Hindu or Muslim. Congress shall make no laws
relating to that, nor shall Congress prohibit the free expression thereof.
(07:57):
You are free to worship however you were, and government
shall not get in the way.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
But just as every other.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Organization APAC, the NRA, the Farmers Association, the Church is
more than able to be a part of our government,
and our founding documents have Christian biblical statements all over.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Be not a shamed Christians any law. The Michael Berrie
Show continues to live in the world of complete and
utter honist.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
You know, it's supposed to be a terrible thing to
find out that a white person is a racist.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
They don't like black people, But there are a lot
of black people that don't like white people.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Plenty of them are serving in government, plenty of or
university professors, plenty of them are presidents of universities. Nobody
should have to like other people. I want to make
that clear. You don't have to like me or anybody
who looks like me, or anybody who looks like anybody
in my family. You're not required to. That's dumb. What
(09:13):
you can't do is act on that basis unfairly. Unfairly,
so nobody gets mad at the head football coach that
he doesn't pick the fattest kid on the team, who
also has the slowest.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Forty time to be the quarterback. Nobody's mad at him
for that.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
He gets to make that decision right, because at the
end of the day, we're going to live with the consequences,
win or lose.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
You better put the best kid out there.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Nobody is required to like other people, but there has
to be consistency. If a black person is going to
call for riots, notice how ch any people won't say
a word about it, because everybody is afraid of being
(10:06):
called a racist. Sometimes people will tell me they'll send
an email it's a chain of where they got into
an argument. Or they'll say, you know, somebody at their
workplace said Michael Berry's a racist, and they'll say no,
he's not. His wife's from India and his kids are
from Africa. His wife is brown, his kids are black.
(10:29):
And I say, no, no, no, no, no no. Do
not defend me on the basis of the skin color
of my family members.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I'm either a racist or I'm not.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
As each person gets to decide, we each get to
pass judgment on other people. I either am or I'm not.
But the skin color of my family members is not
a get out of jail free cart because the minute
you buy into that nonsense, Oh, he can't be racist
his kids are black. Well what about the next guy
(11:06):
who says exactly what I say, but his kids are white?
Is he racist because he doesn't have black kids he
can use as a crutch. I don't need to have
family members to speak to what I feel and what
I say. And by the way, when people will say
makes me so mad to people in my office, think
(11:27):
you're a racist, Why do you care because you're not?
What is a racist? What does it mean? I am
a pursuer of truth. There are some black people I
do not like because they rape and murder. That's true.
(11:55):
So some white people I don't like. Hispanics I don't
like asians, that people, midgets, homos, you name it. But
who I like and don't like and why I like
and don't like them is of really no consequence. It
does not matter the idea that it does. You know,
(12:16):
you take this to its logical extreme. These trends, these
guys that become women, have been all over podcasts and
it's a couple of years ago this was a really
big story and they said that any man who doesn't
want to date a man who dresses as a woman
(12:37):
is a monster and an evil person. And they wanted
that to be the next big thing. Right, you would
have to say I would date one of those people.
And that was their big issue because you shouldn't be
allowed to decide what you like and don't like and
(12:58):
what turns you on and what doesn't. What they want
is here is the rule. You must like that, and
if you don't like that, then you're a bad person.
Once we can prove you're a bad person, it's very
easy to do. We put a mark on you, scarlet letter,
(13:19):
a brand, a star of David. Now we can keep
you from being elected to office, We can keep you
from getting a job. Anytime you do something, everybody will
have to take the other person's side. See, this is
what we do is call other ring people. You make
human beings into something other than a human being. It's
(13:41):
othering them. And that's what we've done with racism. See
what you do is you find some way to say
that someone is a racist, and once that is said,
you can't defend against it. And once you're a racist,
(14:02):
you've been othered. You don't have any rights. There is
no presumption of guilt, of innocence. You're just a bad person.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
See.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
The only reason Daniel Penny would ever defend the people
on that subway is because Jordan Neely is black. Because
he hates black blacks. And let's roll out the people
who all day, every day scream that everybody hates blacks.
Al Sharpton, blm Into LACP, the same lawyers, and that's
(14:38):
what they do. They actually make a good living doing that.
I mean, imagine waking up in the morning going all right,
I gotta go find out who I'm gonna call a
racist today, and it pays well. American society has decided
we're going to have certain people who are going to
run around screaming racism, and the media they're very useful
(15:02):
to the media. They are the first call for the
media to make anytime anything's happened. Anything happens. But this
is not how functioning societies work. This is a cancer
on our society. And I'm gonna go ahead and say
it again. George Floyd was not choked out. He said
(15:27):
I can't breathe long before anyone was near him. He
couldn't breathe because he had ingested the fentanyl that he
was taking when they came upon him as he was
committing the crime of passing counterfeit bills. Remember, there was
a call made that he was committing that felony and
(15:47):
he was a felonie.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
But who cares.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
We just send that white police officer to prison and
we all feel better about ourselves because we don't be.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Called a racist.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Southern Pride Southern Pride with Michael Berry Show, as some
of you know.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Because I talk about my personal life on the air,
It's all I got to talk about, and I share
how I interact with the policies and politics that we
talk about, because at the end of the day, these
aren't academic discussions. Right If the government takes over our
health care, that's going to affect you, and just because
(16:22):
you're young and healthy and haven't needed health care yet
or recently, you don't realize that, and you see it
as some sort of arcane or ethereal existential discussion.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
But that's not where it is for me.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I have a brother who died of the clot shot,
a perfectly able bodied law enforcement officer with over thirty
years who died of the clot shot January twenty twenty two.
My father is eighty four, and since he was twenty
years old and had to be discharged from the Coastguard
(16:58):
on his deathbed with a severe case of diabetes and
they didn't know how to treat it back then, they
sent him home to die, and he read.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
And experimented, and here we are.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
He's eighty four and still alive, still battling diabetes by
the day.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
He is.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
In constant contact with doctors, and many of them have
told me your dad knows more about diabetes than diabetes
doctors do, because in an era before we had proper insulin,
he was managing his blood sugar that's unheard of. And
he still has his vision in all ten of his
fingers and toes well. He's a man of great self
discipline and the willingness to experiment on himself and get
(17:38):
enough leap and not drink, and you know, do the
things they are necessary. And then, of course my mother,
five years younger than him. My father was supposed to
go first, and my mother would nurse him until the
end of his life. And she up and passes on us.
And she ended up having als that basically just eventually
(18:00):
took over her body and left her unable to breathe.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Her lungs just wouldn't function, and it was a horrible,
horrible way to go.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
She died in hospice at our home. I have been
in and out of hospitals just with these things so
many times over the last few years that I have
come to learn a lot about the medical care system.
You know, I had a minor stroke on August first,
(18:31):
twenty sixteen. I you know, we've all had our medical issues.
I'm much better now about taking care of my health
and getting my checkups and all that. But the policy
issue of how we deliver healthcare in a marketplace of
people trying to heal you and provide wellness and prevent
(18:52):
all these things, it's gotten. It's all messed up and
I don't think people really even understand why it's all
messed up, and so today I would like to step
back from the news of the day and address this.
There is a fellow who has been highly recommended when
(19:13):
I bring these questions up, named Charles Silver.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
He is the McDonald Endowed.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Chair of Civil Procedure at the University of Texas at
Austin School of Law.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
If he was there when I was there in the
mid nineties. I don't know him, but his work has
been widely widely discussed, particularly his book Overcharged, Why Americans
pay too much for healthcare. Professor Silver, welcome to the program.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Thank you, Michael, pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I must first ask you if you were on faculty
from ninety three to ninety six when I was there.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
I was started teaching at Texas in nineteen eighty seven.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Oh well, okay, Well, I was a Lino Graulia acolyte
and I was the first crop. There were two of
us that were sent to England to get an LLM degree,
So I was kind of checked out after my second year.
Once I had my offer, I was kind of checked out.
But I'm sorry that I never met you. I had
(20:26):
a wonderful experience at the University of Texas School of Law.
It's a great university law school, and I am the
better for it. So I think a lot of you
for being on faculty there. It's a great institution. Let's
thank you.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
I'm sorry I didn't get to meet you when you
were a student.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Indeed, the book overcharged why Americans pay too much for healthcare?
If somebody says, Michael, I'm going to come back and
listen on the podcast later, but give me the one
minute answer, and then let's get granular and dig into
the what's the one minute answer as to why we
pay too much for healthcare?
Speaker 4 (21:07):
The one minute answer we rely far too heavily on
third party payment arrangements, which means insurance companies, Medicare, Medicaid,
Trycare VA, whatever they happen to be, instead of paying
for health care directly, the same way we pay for
pretty much everything else.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Food, cars, housing.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
You know, we pay for the vast majority of things directly,
meaning we pay for them ourselves, and we don't have
the problem of excessive spending or inflation or costs, or
hidden bills or surprise bills or phony charges. All that
works really well. The one exception is the healthcare sector,
where we rely very very extensively on third parties to
(21:57):
pay for things, and.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
That just screws everything up.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Now, the other thing is we have way too much
governmental involvement in the healthcare sector. There are lots and
lots of regulations that make things worse for consumers. By
and large, the regulations have the purpose of protecting the producers,
not the consumers. So we should do a lot less
in that way.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
You did that. You were technically finished at fifty eight seconds.
You added an addendum to the end that I will admit,
I will it is admissible in this case. But you
achieved the fifty eight seconds. I'm quite impressed that you
did that. So let's start drilling down on these things.
(22:45):
I've got a minute left in this segment, but I
have dedicated some time to talk about this because I
think a lot of people are frustrated, especially when they
start getting all these bills and they go to the
emergency room and place is packed, and then they can't
get in to see a doctor, and then they wonder,
(23:06):
you know, why does something cost ten thousand dollars that
took twenty minutes. It just there's nothing else that requires this.
It all seems so frustrating to people, and I would
like to drill down and get into the actual reasons
why this works. Let me let me start by prefacing,
(23:29):
and we'll get to this.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
In the next segment, because I don't want to have
to cut you off.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I want to first talk about what if we were
to do a zero based budget, we were to go
back to John Locke's state of nature, and let's start
all over and have a cash only.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Health delivery system.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Let's do away with insurance, and let's talk about who
the winners and losers out of that would be. And
more importantly, if I'm if I'm a consumer of health services,
because I don't believe that healthcare is a right. If
I'm a consumer of health services, would this be better
or worse for me? So hang tight right there. Our
(24:09):
guest is Professor Charles Silver. I encourage you to read
the book Overcharged, Why Americans pay too much for healthcare?
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Coming up?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
This is the Michael Berry Show, Locked and loaded and loaded.
Professor Charles Silver is our guest, and as promised at
the end, I've given him a moment to consider. Professor,
what if we go back the book is overcharged? Why
(24:42):
Americans pay too much for healthcare? What if we did
away with all insurance and we went cash only, How
would that change things?
Speaker 4 (24:50):
It would change a lot of things for the better,
but some things for the worse. So a lot of
things would be better. You know, we wouldn't have to
worry about things like surprise medical bills where you don't
even know what something is going to cost when you
get the service delivered. There's actually a very large retail
health sector. So if you want to get layser by surgery,
(25:14):
for example, you have to pay for that yourself because
it's not covered by insurance typically. But you know what,
it's actually very affordable. And the price for laser surgery.
Are you ready for this? The price has substantially declined
since lasik was developed, and it's gotten much better too.
There are new forms of lasik and all that has
(25:36):
happened because there is no overlay of insurance. Where where
in the healthcare sector, except in the private payment sector
can one find prices that have declined. You know, there
are no hospital services, but I'm aware of that cost
less now than they used to. But in the private sector,
(25:57):
where we purchase cosmetic surgery and men and LASC. There's
also the Surgery Center of Oklahoma, which operates on a
cash basis. But there are lots of services that people
can buy directly, and those things that part of the
market works incredibly well with. As I said, we don't
have surprise bills. Everybody knows that they're going to pay
(26:17):
before the service is delivered, and nobody gets billed for
more than the price. The prices are posted, we don't
have to have a you know, in the hospital sector,
we have this federal Transparity rule transparency rule that hospitals
routinely ignore that's supposed to require them to post their prices.
But in the retail sector, we don't have that, and
(26:38):
everybody posts their prices anyway. So a lot of things
would work better if we did that, But the one
thing that would work worse would be emergencies where you're
facing a risk of a catastrophic cost that you know,
people just can't afford to bear on their own. That's
(26:58):
where insurance has a role to play. Catastrophic costs.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, Professor, I have long advocated that we should if
people would understand, for instance, I only have liability insurance
on my vehicles, and people say you have to No, no, no,
I pay cash for my vehicles. The only reason people
are over insured in most cases is because the person
holding the loan wants you to have insurance for more
(27:24):
than the value of what they're of what they've loaned
you money for in case the thing gets burned down
or trashed, they want their money once. You don't have
to do that. In my opinion, I'm a safe driver.
I've never met an insurance claim. In my opinion, it's
a bad business deal. So what I tell people to
do is get catastrophic health insurance so when it hits
(27:47):
fifteen thousand and up, it's good. And then pay cash
and you'll be shocked how many doctors will discount what
you get and they're happy to have the cash. I
go to a doctor named Mary Tally Boden for all
my upper rests, inspiratory stuff, and she's a cash only doctor, which,
as you know, a lot of people are going to.
And you go in and you make your payment and
(28:08):
it's insanely cheap, and then there's no documentation. Later there's
no you know, insurance letter arrives.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Do we pay this?
Speaker 4 (28:15):
No?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
We wait to pay this, she's happier. She doesn't have
to have a bunch of billing clerks. You literally pay
the same way if you bought yogurt there. I think
this is the answer, Professor, Well.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
I agree with you because I go to a doctor
who works on the same basis. So my doctor I
pay a monthly subscription fee too, But I can go
as many times as I want. You know, I don't
need to go all the time, fortunately, but if I
need to go, she usually can see me either that
day or the next day, and I get some tests
(28:48):
performed in house at no charge, and it's it's a
great working arrangement. Like you, I don't get it. I
don't worry about my insurance company, you know, not paying
for some So I.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Think I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
The cash payment is a very good approach for basic healthcare.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
So let's have a little history lesson. Professor Charles Silver
is our guest. The book is called Overcharged, Why Americans
paid too much for healthcare. Let's go back to wherever
the starting point is. You want it to be, nineteen
fifty or nineteen seventy, Where did it start going wrong?
Because we all know it's wrong now where did it
(29:29):
start going wrong?
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Oh, that's easy. It started going wrong in the mid
nineteen sixties when Medicare and Medicaid came online. In my book,
I show how doctors and hospitals fees changed after Medicare
and Medicaid took effect in nineteen sixty five. And basically,
both of those statutes initially let doctors and hospitals charge
(29:55):
whatever they wanted for services, and so, not surprisingly, they
started raising their rates immediately. I mean really immediately after
the enactment of those programs, we were set with health
care inflation that exceeded the real growth rate of the GDP,
and we have been struggling with healthcare inflation ever since.
(30:18):
But everything about the arrangement is wrong. I mean, who
in their right minds let's people who are selling things
set their own prices without any market constraints. I mean,
that's a recipe for disaster, right, And then, of course
that couldn't last forever. So the government eventually did get
into the price setting business in Medicare and Medicaid. But
(30:39):
of course we all know that government price setting is terrible.
It never works properly. It's really hard to set good prices.
To set prices accurately. And moreover, the government really doesn't
have the right set of interests. You know, I want.
It's not just the price that matters to me, it's
the convenience.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
How long do I have to wait to see my doctor?
How friendly is my doctor, how good is my doctor?
There are all these things. Different doctors should have different prices,
and markets can work all that stuff out, but governments
just are notoriously unable to do that, and so as
a result, we've had this terrible system. And because it's
(31:20):
so terrible, it's constantly in need of patching. I mean,
every time I turn around, there's a new bill, a
new proposal being put on the table for some kind
of regulation to fix a problem that only exists because
the government created it. It's never going to be fixed.
It's impossible to fix it. We really need to just
(31:43):
scrap these arrangements and go back to a simple cash
based system for fundamental care, and then things will start.
It will immediately be out of the spending crisis. The
prices will moderate because hospitals and doctors and drug companies
and all that will have to deal with the realities
of the limited budgets of consumers. They'll also have to
(32:06):
face competition. That's hugely important. You know, one I mentioned
the retail health sector. You know, one of the reasons
lasik is cheap is because there are a lot of
laser providers and any ophthalmologists can enter the field who
wants to. So there's a lot of competition, and competition
is good for consumers. So we need to get rid
(32:26):
of these competition frustrating regulations. Let's increase the supply. Let
you know, foreign doctors who can pass American exams come
in and treat people. We need to just open the
floodgates for providers because we have this artificially created shortage.
You know, that's one of the waves that doctors and
(32:47):
hospitals have increased their revenues. It's by preventing new entrants
from coming in and you know, out compete. So we
have to get rid of.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
All that stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Professor Charles Silver, University of Texas School of Law, my
alma mater, is our guest. His book is Overcharged, Why
Americans pay to dang much for healthcare? I added the dang,
but I think we all feel it more. With Professor
Silver coming up to
It's that time. Time, time, time, luck and load. The
Michael Verie Show is on the air.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I'm going to prepare to offend a number of folks
with what I'm about to say, and I want to
make sure you understand before you email me.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm okay that you're offending.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Okay, I'm okay if I tell you I think Earl
Campbell's the greatest running back in the history of the NFL.
Because I love my love you Blue, and you say
that's offensive. I love Walter Payton or OJ Simpson or
Jim Brown or whoever that might very Sanders, whoever that
might be. I didn't say that expecting you to like
(01:00):
what I had to say. You tuned in, and you
should hope. I'm honest. If you never disagree with the
opinion of a host and you listen to them every day,
I got news for you. If two people always agree,
one of them is not necessary.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
And I got more news for you.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
If you never disagree with a single person, I mean,
with a host on a single issue, and you think
that is an endorsement of how great they are.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
It's not.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
That is a sign that they are reading the wind.
They are reading the tea leaves. They are telling you
what you want to hear. So I will tell you this.
I believe that there is an attack coordinated not necessarily
across the religions, but by other religions against Christians in
(01:57):
this country. I believe that, and I believe it comes
from people feeling left out if we talk about Christ
or the Bible and our faith because they're not part
of it. Well, guess what if I find out at
(02:17):
the Spenzil Fest in Texas that they've been doing polka
dancing last weekend and maybe I wasn't invited, I don't
get my feelings hurt.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
That's what they do.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
If in a public gathering people want to celebrate their family,
their tradition, their alma mater, even though I'm not part
of any of those, That's okay.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I'm a big boy.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
And in a pluralistic society, which is what everybody claims
they want.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
So you don't have these problems in China.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
You don't have these problems in Japan where you have
complete homogeneity, got complete dominance by a single race culture.
And what little bit you look at the Wigers in China,
the Muslims, and how the China, how the problems they've
had there.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
But I want to get back to the point here.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
When I'm appreciative that the President has taken up this issue,
and I am tired of people who I think agree
with him but are too chicken to say it publicly.
If you feel the need to say, hey, if you're
Jewish and offended, Hey if you're Muslim and offended. Hey
if you're Atheist and offended. Hey if you're Hindu and offended.
I hope you're not offended, But why are you worried
(03:40):
whether they're offended? Do you believe what you believe only
as long as no one else is offended. So if
you're spending more time worried about offending people who believe
in the supremacy of their God then you do practicing
(04:01):
and expressing your own faith, then maybe they are bigger
believers than you are. It is not your job to
coddle those who do not share your beliefs. We don't
murder others for not sharing our beliefs. Do you think
(04:22):
there are any other religions in the world who do.
We don't rape the women of those who do not
share our beliefs when we conquer their lands or defeat
them on the battlefield. We worship our God in our way. Now,
there are a number of Christians. See when Christians are
in the majority, they're very guilt ridden. They're not comfortable
(04:48):
with this, kind of like the Republicans. They don't like
to be in power. They'd rather be out of power.
We are better when persecuted. But when you hear people
say President Trump shouldn't talk about the Christian faith, that's
a violation of church and state. If you ever learn
anything from me ever, in the time that you listen
(05:10):
for one year or one hundred, let it be this.
Everything you know about the separation of church and state
is wrong. Of the ten commandments the first and they're
laid out in Exodus twenty and Deuteronomy. I think it's
(05:31):
four five Deuteronomy five. The first commandment, thou shalt have
no other gods before me. Well, you're a white supremacist. No,
I'm not a white supremacist in the sense that I'm
trying to subjugate other people. But am I proud of
(05:54):
my people? Am I proud of people who look like me?
Am I proud of my heritage? Am I proud of
the culture? Yes, I am, And your attempt to make
me ashamed of it. That works on other people, not
on me. But here is let me get to this quickly.
The idea of the separation of church and state did
(06:16):
not mean that the church will not be involved in
the state. It meant that the state will not be
involved in the church. And what happened is that the
King of England was having problems in his marriage, couldn't
get what he wanted from the pope. So he declared,
I'm the King of the Church of England, my own church.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Pope begone.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I'll issue the rulings, I'll issue the indulgences in charge
for him.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
So here is.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Jefferson wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptist and they
were worried about this. And he says, believing with you
that religion is a matter which lies solely between man
and his God, that he owes account to none other
for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers
of government reach actions only and not opinions. I contemplate
(07:10):
with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people
which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting
an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,
thus building a wall of separation between church and state.
What he is saying is that Congress that in our
(07:33):
founding documents. In that founding document, we said, Congress shall
make no law respecting an establishment of religion. Congress shall
not determine who is and isn't a Christian, or a Jew,
or a Hindu or Muslim. Congress shall make no laws
relating to that, nor shall Congress prohibit the free expression thereof.
(07:57):
You are free to worship however you were, and government
shall not get in the way.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
But just as every other.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Organization APAC, the NRA, the Farmers Association, the Church is
more than able to be a part of our government,
and our founding documents have Christian biblical statements all over.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Be not a shamed Christians any law. The Michael Berrie
Show continues to live in the world of complete and
utter honist.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
You know, it's supposed to be a terrible thing to
find out that a white person is a racist.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
They don't like black people, But there are a lot
of black people that don't like white people.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Plenty of them are serving in government, plenty of or
university professors, plenty of them are presidents of universities. Nobody
should have to like other people. I want to make
that clear. You don't have to like me or anybody
who looks like me, or anybody who looks like anybody
in my family. You're not required to. That's dumb. What
(09:13):
you can't do is act on that basis unfairly. Unfairly,
so nobody gets mad at the head football coach that
he doesn't pick the fattest kid on the team, who
also has the slowest.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Forty time to be the quarterback. Nobody's mad at him
for that.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
He gets to make that decision right, because at the
end of the day, we're going to live with the consequences,
win or lose.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
You better put the best kid out there.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Nobody is required to like other people, but there has
to be consistency. If a black person is going to
call for riots, notice how ch any people won't say
a word about it, because everybody is afraid of being
(10:06):
called a racist. Sometimes people will tell me they'll send
an email it's a chain of where they got into
an argument. Or they'll say, you know, somebody at their
workplace said Michael Berry's a racist, and they'll say no,
he's not. His wife's from India and his kids are
from Africa. His wife is brown, his kids are black.
(10:29):
And I say, no, no, no, no, no no. Do
not defend me on the basis of the skin color
of my family members.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I'm either a racist or I'm not.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
As each person gets to decide, we each get to
pass judgment on other people. I either am or I'm not.
But the skin color of my family members is not
a get out of jail free cart because the minute
you buy into that nonsense, Oh, he can't be racist
his kids are black. Well what about the next guy
(11:06):
who says exactly what I say, but his kids are white?
Is he racist because he doesn't have black kids he
can use as a crutch. I don't need to have
family members to speak to what I feel and what
I say. And by the way, when people will say
makes me so mad to people in my office, think
(11:27):
you're a racist, Why do you care because you're not?
What is a racist? What does it mean? I am
a pursuer of truth. There are some black people I
do not like because they rape and murder. That's true.
(11:55):
So some white people I don't like. Hispanics I don't
like asians, that people, midgets, homos, you name it. But
who I like and don't like and why I like
and don't like them is of really no consequence. It
does not matter the idea that it does. You know,
(12:16):
you take this to its logical extreme. These trends, these
guys that become women, have been all over podcasts and
it's a couple of years ago this was a really
big story and they said that any man who doesn't
want to date a man who dresses as a woman
(12:37):
is a monster and an evil person. And they wanted
that to be the next big thing. Right, you would
have to say I would date one of those people.
And that was their big issue because you shouldn't be
allowed to decide what you like and don't like and
(12:58):
what turns you on and what doesn't. What they want
is here is the rule. You must like that, and
if you don't like that, then you're a bad person.
Once we can prove you're a bad person, it's very
easy to do. We put a mark on you, scarlet letter,
(13:19):
a brand, a star of David. Now we can keep
you from being elected to office, We can keep you
from getting a job. Anytime you do something, everybody will
have to take the other person's side. See, this is
what we do is call other ring people. You make
human beings into something other than a human being. It's
(13:41):
othering them. And that's what we've done with racism. See
what you do is you find some way to say
that someone is a racist, and once that is said,
you can't defend against it. And once you're a racist,
(14:02):
you've been othered. You don't have any rights. There is
no presumption of guilt, of innocence. You're just a bad person.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
See.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
The only reason Daniel Penny would ever defend the people
on that subway is because Jordan Neely is black. Because
he hates black blacks. And let's roll out the people
who all day, every day scream that everybody hates blacks.
Al Sharpton, blm Into LACP, the same lawyers, and that's
(14:38):
what they do. They actually make a good living doing that.
I mean, imagine waking up in the morning going all right,
I gotta go find out who I'm gonna call a
racist today, and it pays well. American society has decided
we're going to have certain people who are going to
run around screaming racism, and the media they're very useful
(15:02):
to the media. They are the first call for the
media to make anytime anything's happened. Anything happens. But this
is not how functioning societies work. This is a cancer
on our society. And I'm gonna go ahead and say
it again. George Floyd was not choked out. He said
(15:27):
I can't breathe long before anyone was near him. He
couldn't breathe because he had ingested the fentanyl that he
was taking when they came upon him as he was
committing the crime of passing counterfeit bills. Remember, there was
a call made that he was committing that felony and
(15:47):
he was a felonie.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
But who cares.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
We just send that white police officer to prison and
we all feel better about ourselves because we don't be.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Called a racist.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Southern Pride Southern Pride with Michael Berry Show, as some
of you know.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Because I talk about my personal life on the air,
It's all I got to talk about, and I share
how I interact with the policies and politics that we
talk about, because at the end of the day, these
aren't academic discussions. Right If the government takes over our
health care, that's going to affect you, and just because
(16:22):
you're young and healthy and haven't needed health care yet
or recently, you don't realize that, and you see it
as some sort of arcane or ethereal existential discussion.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
But that's not where it is for me.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I have a brother who died of the clot shot,
a perfectly able bodied law enforcement officer with over thirty
years who died of the clot shot January twenty twenty two.
My father is eighty four, and since he was twenty
years old and had to be discharged from the Coastguard
(16:58):
on his deathbed with a severe case of diabetes and
they didn't know how to treat it back then, they
sent him home to die, and he read.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
And experimented, and here we are.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
He's eighty four and still alive, still battling diabetes by
the day.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
He is.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
In constant contact with doctors, and many of them have
told me your dad knows more about diabetes than diabetes
doctors do, because in an era before we had proper insulin,
he was managing his blood sugar that's unheard of. And
he still has his vision in all ten of his
fingers and toes well. He's a man of great self
discipline and the willingness to experiment on himself and get
(17:38):
enough leap and not drink, and you know, do the
things they are necessary. And then, of course my mother,
five years younger than him. My father was supposed to
go first, and my mother would nurse him until the
end of his life. And she up and passes on us.
And she ended up having als that basically just eventually
(18:00):
took over her body and left her unable to breathe.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Her lungs just wouldn't function, and it was a horrible,
horrible way to go.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
She died in hospice at our home. I have been
in and out of hospitals just with these things so
many times over the last few years that I have
come to learn a lot about the medical care system.
You know, I had a minor stroke on August first,
(18:31):
twenty sixteen. I you know, we've all had our medical issues.
I'm much better now about taking care of my health
and getting my checkups and all that. But the policy
issue of how we deliver healthcare in a marketplace of
people trying to heal you and provide wellness and prevent
(18:52):
all these things, it's gotten. It's all messed up and
I don't think people really even understand why it's all
messed up, and so today I would like to step
back from the news of the day and address this.
There is a fellow who has been highly recommended when
(19:13):
I bring these questions up, named Charles Silver.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
He is the McDonald Endowed.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Chair of Civil Procedure at the University of Texas at
Austin School of Law.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
If he was there when I was there in the
mid nineties. I don't know him, but his work has
been widely widely discussed, particularly his book Overcharged, Why Americans
pay too much for healthcare. Professor Silver, welcome to the program.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Thank you, Michael, pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I must first ask you if you were on faculty
from ninety three to ninety six when I was there.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
I was started teaching at Texas in nineteen eighty seven.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Oh well, okay, Well, I was a Lino Graulia acolyte
and I was the first crop. There were two of
us that were sent to England to get an LLM degree,
So I was kind of checked out after my second year.
Once I had my offer, I was kind of checked out.
But I'm sorry that I never met you. I had
(20:26):
a wonderful experience at the University of Texas School of Law.
It's a great university law school, and I am the
better for it. So I think a lot of you
for being on faculty there. It's a great institution. Let's
thank you.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
I'm sorry I didn't get to meet you when you
were a student.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Indeed, the book overcharged why Americans pay too much for healthcare?
If somebody says, Michael, I'm going to come back and
listen on the podcast later, but give me the one
minute answer, and then let's get granular and dig into
the what's the one minute answer as to why we
pay too much for healthcare?
Speaker 4 (21:07):
The one minute answer we rely far too heavily on
third party payment arrangements, which means insurance companies, Medicare, Medicaid,
Trycare VA, whatever they happen to be, instead of paying
for health care directly, the same way we pay for
pretty much everything else.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Food, cars, housing.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
You know, we pay for the vast majority of things directly,
meaning we pay for them ourselves, and we don't have
the problem of excessive spending or inflation or costs, or
hidden bills or surprise bills or phony charges. All that
works really well. The one exception is the healthcare sector,
where we rely very very extensively on third parties to
(21:57):
pay for things, and.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
That just screws everything up.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Now, the other thing is we have way too much
governmental involvement in the healthcare sector. There are lots and
lots of regulations that make things worse for consumers. By
and large, the regulations have the purpose of protecting the producers,
not the consumers. So we should do a lot less
in that way.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
You did that. You were technically finished at fifty eight seconds.
You added an addendum to the end that I will admit,
I will it is admissible in this case. But you
achieved the fifty eight seconds. I'm quite impressed that you
did that. So let's start drilling down on these things.
(22:45):
I've got a minute left in this segment, but I
have dedicated some time to talk about this because I
think a lot of people are frustrated, especially when they
start getting all these bills and they go to the
emergency room and place is packed, and then they can't
get in to see a doctor, and then they wonder,
(23:06):
you know, why does something cost ten thousand dollars that
took twenty minutes. It just there's nothing else that requires this.
It all seems so frustrating to people, and I would
like to drill down and get into the actual reasons
why this works. Let me let me start by prefacing,
(23:29):
and we'll get to this.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
In the next segment, because I don't want to have
to cut you off.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I want to first talk about what if we were
to do a zero based budget, we were to go
back to John Locke's state of nature, and let's start
all over and have a cash only.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Health delivery system.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Let's do away with insurance, and let's talk about who
the winners and losers out of that would be. And
more importantly, if I'm if I'm a consumer of health services,
because I don't believe that healthcare is a right. If
I'm a consumer of health services, would this be better
or worse for me? So hang tight right there. Our
(24:09):
guest is Professor Charles Silver. I encourage you to read
the book Overcharged, Why Americans pay too much for healthcare?
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Coming up?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
This is the Michael Berry Show, Locked and loaded and loaded.
Professor Charles Silver is our guest, and as promised at
the end, I've given him a moment to consider. Professor,
what if we go back the book is overcharged? Why
(24:42):
Americans pay too much for healthcare? What if we did
away with all insurance and we went cash only, How
would that change things?
Speaker 4 (24:50):
It would change a lot of things for the better,
but some things for the worse. So a lot of
things would be better. You know, we wouldn't have to
worry about things like surprise medical bills where you don't
even know what something is going to cost when you
get the service delivered. There's actually a very large retail
health sector. So if you want to get layser by surgery,
(25:14):
for example, you have to pay for that yourself because
it's not covered by insurance typically. But you know what,
it's actually very affordable. And the price for laser surgery.
Are you ready for this? The price has substantially declined
since lasik was developed, and it's gotten much better too.
There are new forms of lasik and all that has
(25:36):
happened because there is no overlay of insurance. Where where
in the healthcare sector, except in the private payment sector
can one find prices that have declined. You know, there
are no hospital services, but I'm aware of that cost
less now than they used to. But in the private sector,
(25:57):
where we purchase cosmetic surgery and men and LASC. There's
also the Surgery Center of Oklahoma, which operates on a
cash basis. But there are lots of services that people
can buy directly, and those things that part of the
market works incredibly well with. As I said, we don't
have surprise bills. Everybody knows that they're going to pay
(26:17):
before the service is delivered, and nobody gets billed for
more than the price. The prices are posted, we don't
have to have a you know, in the hospital sector,
we have this federal Transparity rule transparency rule that hospitals
routinely ignore that's supposed to require them to post their prices.
But in the retail sector, we don't have that, and
(26:38):
everybody posts their prices anyway. So a lot of things
would work better if we did that, But the one
thing that would work worse would be emergencies where you're
facing a risk of a catastrophic cost that you know,
people just can't afford to bear on their own. That's
(26:58):
where insurance has a role to play. Catastrophic costs.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, Professor, I have long advocated that we should if
people would understand, for instance, I only have liability insurance
on my vehicles, and people say you have to No, no, no,
I pay cash for my vehicles. The only reason people
are over insured in most cases is because the person
holding the loan wants you to have insurance for more
(27:24):
than the value of what they're of what they've loaned
you money for in case the thing gets burned down
or trashed, they want their money once. You don't have
to do that. In my opinion, I'm a safe driver.
I've never met an insurance claim. In my opinion, it's
a bad business deal. So what I tell people to
do is get catastrophic health insurance so when it hits
(27:47):
fifteen thousand and up, it's good. And then pay cash
and you'll be shocked how many doctors will discount what
you get and they're happy to have the cash. I
go to a doctor named Mary Tally Boden for all
my upper rests, inspiratory stuff, and she's a cash only doctor, which,
as you know, a lot of people are going to.
And you go in and you make your payment and
(28:08):
it's insanely cheap, and then there's no documentation. Later there's
no you know, insurance letter arrives.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Do we pay this?
Speaker 4 (28:15):
No?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
We wait to pay this, she's happier. She doesn't have
to have a bunch of billing clerks. You literally pay
the same way if you bought yogurt there. I think
this is the answer, Professor, Well.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
I agree with you because I go to a doctor
who works on the same basis. So my doctor I
pay a monthly subscription fee too, But I can go
as many times as I want. You know, I don't
need to go all the time, fortunately, but if I
need to go, she usually can see me either that
day or the next day, and I get some tests
(28:48):
performed in house at no charge, and it's it's a
great working arrangement. Like you, I don't get it. I
don't worry about my insurance company, you know, not paying
for some So I.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Think I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
The cash payment is a very good approach for basic healthcare.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
So let's have a little history lesson. Professor Charles Silver
is our guest. The book is called Overcharged, Why Americans
paid too much for healthcare. Let's go back to wherever
the starting point is. You want it to be, nineteen
fifty or nineteen seventy, Where did it start going wrong?
Because we all know it's wrong now where did it
(29:29):
start going wrong?
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Oh, that's easy. It started going wrong in the mid
nineteen sixties when Medicare and Medicaid came online. In my book,
I show how doctors and hospitals fees changed after Medicare
and Medicaid took effect in nineteen sixty five. And basically,
both of those statutes initially let doctors and hospitals charge
(29:55):
whatever they wanted for services, and so, not surprisingly, they
started raising their rates immediately. I mean really immediately after
the enactment of those programs, we were set with health
care inflation that exceeded the real growth rate of the GDP,
and we have been struggling with healthcare inflation ever since.
(30:18):
But everything about the arrangement is wrong. I mean, who
in their right minds let's people who are selling things
set their own prices without any market constraints. I mean,
that's a recipe for disaster, right, And then, of course
that couldn't last forever. So the government eventually did get
into the price setting business in Medicare and Medicaid. But
(30:39):
of course we all know that government price setting is terrible.
It never works properly. It's really hard to set good prices.
To set prices accurately. And moreover, the government really doesn't
have the right set of interests. You know, I want.
It's not just the price that matters to me, it's
the convenience.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
How long do I have to wait to see my doctor?
How friendly is my doctor, how good is my doctor?
There are all these things. Different doctors should have different prices,
and markets can work all that stuff out, but governments
just are notoriously unable to do that, and so as
a result, we've had this terrible system. And because it's
(31:20):
so terrible, it's constantly in need of patching. I mean,
every time I turn around, there's a new bill, a
new proposal being put on the table for some kind
of regulation to fix a problem that only exists because
the government created it. It's never going to be fixed.
It's impossible to fix it. We really need to just
(31:43):
scrap these arrangements and go back to a simple cash
based system for fundamental care, and then things will start.
It will immediately be out of the spending crisis. The
prices will moderate because hospitals and doctors and drug companies
and all that will have to deal with the realities
of the limited budgets of consumers. They'll also have to
(32:06):
face competition. That's hugely important. You know, one I mentioned
the retail health sector. You know, one of the reasons
lasik is cheap is because there are a lot of
laser providers and any ophthalmologists can enter the field who
wants to. So there's a lot of competition, and competition
is good for consumers. So we need to get rid
(32:26):
of these competition frustrating regulations. Let's increase the supply. Let
you know, foreign doctors who can pass American exams come
in and treat people. We need to just open the
floodgates for providers because we have this artificially created shortage.
You know, that's one of the waves that doctors and
(32:47):
hospitals have increased their revenues. It's by preventing new entrants
from coming in and you know, out compete. So we
have to get rid of.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
All that stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Professor Charles Silver, University of Texas School of Law, my
alma mater, is our guest. His book is Overcharged, Why
Americans pay to dang much for healthcare? I added the dang,
but I think we all feel it more. With Professor
Silver coming up to
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