May 15, 2025 • 34 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's that time time, time, time, luck and load. So
Michael Verie Show is on the air.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Doctor Joe Digney is our guest. He's the pastor at
Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho. He's written eight books, the
aforementioned Sin of Empathy and now the book Leadership and
Emotional Sabotage. Take us back to why this is necessary?
What does emotional sabotage have to do with leadership.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Of agitation and angst the turmoil and disruption? Everybody, i think,
feels a sense that no one's in control and that
things are running all all different ways. And as a result,
the leaders who have meant to act as the shock
absorbers for society can easily begin to abdicate their responsibility
to steward their institutions. That happens in homes, it happens
(01:14):
in churches, it happens in schools, and it happens in nations.
And so in that book, I'm seeking to kind of
diagnose that problem, what are its roots? Why do we
feel like we're sitting on this powder keg? And then
to offer solutions, what does it mean to be courageous
and sober minded in the midst of this agitation? And
the basic paradigm I offer there is that we live
in a society.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
That has become drunk on passions.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Passions, our emotions are immediate and instinctive emotions. When you
see something good, you want it. When you see something scary,
you fear it. When you see something sad, you grieve it.
And our passions, we can become drunk on them, they
become in the driver's seat. And I instead want to
argue that one of the core virtues we have to
(01:57):
recover is sober mindedness. We need to be sober, We
need to sober up, which means that we have a
clarity of mind and that we're stable. We have a
stability in our souls that anchors us when these big
anxiety storms and social stampedes run across our path, and
we're ready to act. We're ready to lean in. We
don't advocate and are passive, but instead we step up
(02:18):
to the plate and we have the courage to follow
through and fulfill the responsibilities that God has given to us.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
What has been the reaction of leaders, whether in the church,
the corporate world, education, or politics, to this book. Have
there been people who said I didn't recognize I was
subjected to this. I didn't recognize this was a cancer
upon me. I disagree with you. What have folks said?
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
So this you know you mentioned that I mentioned I've
written about eight books. Leadership and Emotional Sabotage is by
far the best selling. It's it's really struck a nerve
and it's kind of taken on a life of its own.
It's surprising to me the places I've I've come across
that I have I've had I would have no connection
to otherwise. I'm a I'm a pastor in a small
town and a small Christian school.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
This was a book published.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
By a small Christian publisher, and I know that cabinet secretaries,
pastors of megachurches, Uh, you know, colonels and generals in
the military are reading it in order to help them
lead the institutions that they're a part of.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
So it's been it's been surprising.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
To me the places that this book has been able
to get because I think partly the title is catchy.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Thanks publisher.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
And it's a short book, It's only one hundred or
so pages, but it really tries to give a paradigm
shift for how you should lead in the face of
all of the attempts to steer and sabotage you when
you seek to be a faithful leader.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
That is very interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Wow, as you begin a project like this, I'm curious
to know your writing process. Is there is there a spark?
Is this a ministry? Is there an idea? Is is
it a question? You are often asked by parishioners or
people buy email?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And then how do how does that.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Work from from there to the very difficult task that
you have done, which is completing the work?
Speaker 6 (04:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Usually you know.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
So, I'm a teacher, professor by by trade, that's my
main vocation, and so I usually teach them reading things,
and I'm teaching them in classes and that's where I
kind of refined my ideas and they also get refined
in sermons and in counseling sessions with parishioners.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
And so that's where the that all bubbles up. And
eventually there's usually a spark, either a request or in
this case, the publisher said, Hey, would you be interested
in doing some videos for their website for their streaming
service called Cannon Plus. If you're lead listeners are interested,
it's called Cannon Plus. It's like a kind of a
(04:57):
combination of Audible and Netflix, but for wholesome Christian family content.
And then they asked I again of Yeah, Canon C A,
N O, N plus P l U S Canon plus
dot com and and they asked if I would do
a series of basically teachings lessons on things that I'd
(05:18):
done on leadership, and so I said sure, And so
I put together a series of six lessons. And as
I completed those and delivered them, I realized, you know,
if I think if I were to fill this out.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I'd have a nice little book, And so I did.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
I added about another ten thousand words or so, and
that became Leadership and Emotional Sabotage. So it's it's usually
that sort of process of coming out of my teaching
and then being refined, and then the spark of the
moment arises when I'm able to actually complete the project.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
What is your time? I asked all authors this, So
what is your time that you write? Is it just
when it comes to you or do you set usacific time?
And how long is that? I'm always curious everybody has
a different writing process.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Usually I let ideas germinate for a while, and I'll
usually do a kind of writing retreat.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
I'll walk off a few days.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Where I really try to immerse myself and I'll think
carefully about structure. Sometimes deadlines force things upon me, so
I have a chapter that I need to complete by
a certain time, or a sermon that I need to
complete by a certain day. Sometimes my speaking opportunities give
me opportunity, an opportunity to pull together content to deliver
in a forty five minute window, and that kind of
(06:34):
forces me to get everything together. So those are all
various ways that I'm kind of forced to pull things
together in order to deliver them to who needs them.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Ernest Himingway in talking about because it's such a prolific writer.
His advice to other writers was, every day, say one
honest thing, make one offer one honest sentence, and if
you have another honest sentence to add to it, great,
(07:08):
And as long as you can add an honest sentence.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
To that, you are writing.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
But he was clear that some days there may only
be one honest sentence. The woman walked into the room
and sat down and was beheld by all the people.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Okay, that's it.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I was curious with your writing process if that tends
to be in chunks or if that is the discipline,
Because we all have a book.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
In us right, whether we get it out or not.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
So many people journal Marcus Latrell, Dear Friend of Mine,
Lone Survivor was based on the fact that, thank goodness,
since he was eight years old, he'd kept a journal,
and he.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Did throughout his ordeal.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So this was a guy who made it a habit
to always write, and his writing became a bestseller and
a big movie and all sorts of things. I'm curious
about the discipline it takes to complete that process, and
not just yours, which which has a Christian perspective. We
all have a story to tell in writing Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
That you know what was about?
Speaker 6 (08:09):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
The idea that when the books are gone, the knowledge
is gone and then you can recreate you know, your
own truth. We'll continue our conversation with doctor Joe Rigney
don't you call me Hey, don't you call me?
Speaker 5 (08:29):
Doctor?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Joe Disney is our guest.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Was a fellow of theology at New Saint Andrew's Church
and he is a an author.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
We talked earlier about his book The.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Sin of Empathy, which which spoke to me and my
theory of the naive neighbor. We also talked about his book,
which is his best seller yet, Leadership and Emotional Savage
a sabotage, not savage. Leadership and emotional sabotage, something that
probably speaks to a number of you. His third book
going backward is Courage How the Gospel Creates Christian Fortitude.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
It feels like.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Christians today are being slapped around, particularly the very strong
influence of Islam into previously dominantly Christian nations, and it
feels that Christians are somewhat cowardly, afraid to stand up. Well,
we've had it so good, and we're from many of us,
we're so white that we don't want to be a
(09:24):
strong Christian. We're ashamed, we don't want to be the oppressor.
And that's not what my Bible commands me. That's not
taking up your cross, that is not suffering, that is
not going there for and preaching and witnessing and sharing
against the tides and against the shame. It's necessary, it's
part of the process. So tell me about Courage, How
(09:46):
the Gospel Creates Christian Fortitude.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yeah, well, that was the book that I was asked
to write because of various sermons that I've given, and
that way, it really is driven by the this reality
that living is Christ and dying is gain. And if
dying is gain, it means you have nothing to fear
and you can just go for it. And the Bible
is filled with these exhortations. Think of the beginning of
(10:11):
the Book of Joshua. Be strong and curatious, courageous. Why
because the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.
So God's presence is meant to be an empowerment for
our own strength and courage as we face the challenges
that are put before us, and we do with In
an age when which people are afraid, in which they're
cowardice is often it's masked in various ways. No one
(10:32):
wants to admit that they're a coward. It's shameful, but
we can find all sorts of ways to excuse our
cowardice in the name of prudence or wisdom. In fact,
that's all quote the other day where someone says when
courage is needed, the coward says that what's needed is prudence,
And I thought, that's that's pretty right. People often use
(10:52):
other good things as excuses to avoid doing hard things,
and so in that book, I'm simply trying to show
failures of courage. Play is where in the scriptures people
did fear and that courage. Both cowardice and courage are
are contagious. Which is why it really matters how many
people went along with all sorts of folly over the
last ten or fifteen years, say in their workplace, and
(11:14):
all it would have taken is one person standing up
and saying, I don't think this is right. I think
that this is crazy. I think that this is unjust,
and they would have discovered that there were a whole
lot of other people who were thinking that, but we're
afraid to say so. And I think that there's a
number of churches that discovered this through COVID, whose numbers
swelled as they were willing to resist the kind of
(11:35):
COVID tyranny that came down from a number of states.
And their simple willingness to say, you know what, we're
going to meet it matters, we need to worship God together.
And their willingness to simply plant a flag and say
we're going.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
To do this despite what the government is saying.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Rallied people to their banner, and whereas churches that compromised
and that we're kind of cowardly and went along with
a lot of folly and a whole post of ways
have found their numbers swindling.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
We had a pastor on Ramon.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Do you remember where he was somewhere in Canada, and
he was something like Albanian, so he had very heavily
accented English and he kind of yelled when he spoke.
He was very intense, he was older, and they can't.
They burst into his church and he started screaming at them,
and I think he was Jewish, and I think he
was basically saying, this is what the Nazis did, and
this is exactly when we're going to stand up to you.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
You're not going to do this, And they didn't know
what to do right.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
These these officers are real tough until somebody pushes back
and then they're not. And it was amazing the strength
of character and conviction this man, and we had him
on multiple times.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I think he has since died.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
But his point was, my Bible urges me to open
not despite COVID or not despite COVID. Because of COVID.
We need the church more now than ever and thought
it was a great point.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Right, that's absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
And we see this kind of example in the scriptures,
in both in Christ and in.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
The Apostle Paul. The Apostle Paul, everywhere.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
He went he ran into mobs, he ran into opposition
from the authorities, he ran into persecution, and he never
shrank from it. He welcomed it, and he saw it
as an opportunity to testify to what God had called
him to testify. And so there's a number of places
in which we see him. For example, at one point
in the Book of Acts, he's just been beaten by
(13:28):
a mob, and then when the cops show up, they
arrest him for getting beaten, which is how it typically goes,
and as he's being carried off, he actually pauses and
asks the Roman tribute, could I say something to the people.
So here you have a moment in which he's just
been beaten, he's being taken to jail, and what he's
thinking about is this is an opportunity for me to
address these people, to try to once again testify to
(13:50):
what Christ has done for me. And he gives his testimony,
and he end that testimony that you want.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
To kill him again? But the point is that he
took the shot.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
He was not afraid because of these circumstances, and it
didn't lead him to shrink back in fear, but instead
he stepped up to the play why because he knew
God is with me, God is for me, and this
is what God has called me to do, and he
will equip me to do it.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
And if God before me, who can be against me?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
And once you fully understand that you don't need to
fear anything else, it does not mean they're not going
to kill you. It does not mean they're not going
to stone you, or that you're not going to suffer,
but that suffering is sometimes righteous.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
And I believe that in my heart of hearts.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
It's probably why my three heroes growing up were all
killed for their conviction, one of whom was resurrected. But
I guess that message has always meant a lot to me,
and it's always meant I respect Trump for the fact
that no matter the more they push him, the harder
(14:49):
he comes back. And there are very few people who
would have done that. Most people would have taken the
message and gone away. Someone who can stay in the fight,
I'll tell you that I admire you've had some association
with Colorado is a masterpiece. Cake guy in Colorado. They
destroyed that man's business. They bankrupted him all because they
bake a cake boy. And he said, no, I can't.
(15:12):
I'll see you next door. I'll pay for the cake,
I'll do it, but I won't do it. And he
just stays in there and keeps going, and they keep
tormenting that poor man.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
That's absolutely right, and it's a in his case, it's
not allowed demanding courage. It's a simply quiet resolve to
do what's right. And the reality is that you're going
to fear somebody.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
The question is whom.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
So it's not that we don't have any fear. It's
that we fear God first, and then when we face
opposition from men, we may even feel some fear. But
one of the things I point out in that book
is that courage is not the absence of fear, it's
the mastery of it. The fear may be present and
maybe palpable, you can feel it rising up in your gut.
But what God calls us to do is to trust him,
and by entrusting him to have the fortitude of mind
(15:58):
to subdue our fears and continue to act for the
good that he's called us to, even in the face
of dangers and opposition. And you saw that, You see
that with Jack Phelps, you see that with a number
of other folks who have not gone looking for a fight.
They're not brawlers, they're not quarrelsome, and they're not looking
to be culture warriors of any sense. He just wanted
to bake his cakes, but God called him to it
(16:21):
by circumstances, and he was willing to be faithful at
his post.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
And you have been faithful as a guest for the truth,
and we have enjoyed having you.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
We will have you back again. Doctor Joe Rigney, you're wonderful.
Thank you, sermon.
Speaker 7 (16:37):
Doug King of Ding and this other guy, Michael Barry.
Speaker 6 (16:42):
These are the kind of guys.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
You're like a smack and air.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Doug Robinson, no relation to the great Charlie Robinson, at
least that we know of, is the natural resources founder
and CEO of a company we're about to hear about.
And it came to our attention because he's friends with
my dentist, doctor Guy Lewis, who owns Texas Cosmetic Dental,
and he told me you need to watch this interview
(17:10):
on Fox Business with Maria Barbiromo the following morning at
six am, because I have spoken at length about our
need to use the most efficient forms of energy that
are available and cost effective, and.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
One of those is nuclear. But people are scared of it.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
And he said, I know you'll be interested in it,
and I'll let you listen to what I heard with Maria,
and you tell me.
Speaker 8 (17:37):
Welcome a President Trump prioritizing American energy independence, making one
of his priorities in his first one hundred days, and
support for restoring nuclear energy as well. Fox Visits is
Jeff Flock is live in Abilene, Texas right now with more.
Speaker 7 (17:52):
Jeff, all of the above. Maria and I come to
you this morning from the future. I am surrounded by
four feet thick concrete walls.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
This.
Speaker 7 (18:01):
You know, we hear a lot about these modular nuclear reactors.
Well you're actually seeing one being built right now. It's
on the campus of Ablene Christian University, and a lot of.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
People think this is the future.
Speaker 7 (18:13):
They have made tremendous progress, as you see on the
other side of the screen there building this. There's only
two companies that now have a permit to build a
modular next generation nuclear reactor. And we're with a man
behind one of them, Doug Robinson, an unlikely fellows to
be deleting this and that you're a third generation oil man,
but you believe deeply in these small modular nuclear reactors.
(18:36):
Tell me why you're so.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
We have a proven technology one built in the sixties.
Small module nuclear is safe, affordable, clean, dispatchable, and we
have a permit from a new Conrogratory commission to construct
our reactor.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
And we have a.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Team here that is dedicated to making that happen as
quick clean sponsor.
Speaker 7 (18:55):
I want to show on the other side of the
screen again some of the research you're doing right now.
You're getting close and you use molten salt. This is
not a solid fuel reactor. This is a liquid fuel
And tell you about molten salt. How does hell work?
Speaker 5 (19:10):
So, if it's a generation for technology, the kulant where
you move the heat from the reactor core to where
you generate electricity, we use molten salt instead of water.
The advantage of that is that we operate at extremely
hot temperatures, which is very valuable. But we operated almost
no pressure because molten salt is not converted to a gas,
so we don't have the pressure to state this interesting or.
Speaker 7 (19:30):
Yeah, I want to show you the states now there
are trying to.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Lead away on this.
Speaker 7 (19:34):
You've got more than half of the country now passing laws.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
To help you.
Speaker 7 (19:39):
Despite that, you're not getting any money, no federal money,
no state money. You're self financing this project.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
We have privately financed this project from day one. Now
I did start on with go to rabbits Advanced Nuclear
Working Group that Texas legislature is considering along with other states,
how they can incentivize these businesses, these new industries in
their states.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
We'll see what happens here in Texas.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
But today we're being one hunder percent of public privately financed.
Speaker 7 (20:03):
Worry, before we get away, I just want to show
you one thing. There's only two of these that exists
now in the country. This is the multi salt reactor
approval from the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission. This could be
the future. A man who spent his career in the
oil industry says nuclear look out for it.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Absolutely, chat energy is everything, folks, It is everything. Military
historians will tell you that the single biggest impediment to
Hitler winning was he ran out of gas. It made
him do stupid things in Russia. He didn't learn the
lesson that Napoleon Bonaparte before him, that that was a
bad place to go in the winter. Energy is everything
(20:43):
to our quality of life, to our investments, to our transportation,
to everything. And I am delighted to see a man
with a lifetime in the oil business recognizing, promoting supporting nuclear.
Doug Robinson, thank you for being our guest. Welcome to
the program, pleasure, Thank you very much for having me.
(21:03):
So how did you get involved with nuclear?
Speaker 1 (21:06):
How does this end up on your desk?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And how do you go from because I know the
immediate reaction is I don't know nuclear, I know all.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
And that's probably still true to a great extent. There's
a little bit of a history to it. In two
thousand and four, Governor Rick Perry appointed me to the
Texans Energy Planning Council and I chaired the Energy Supply Committee.
So you have to go back twenty plus years.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
There was not a climate agenda.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
We had all of the energy we needed in the
form of primarily coal had always been the workhorse of
our grid and of course natural gas and oil and
other forms, including nuclear.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
But in the.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
Context of that work, there were some early claims being
made some of the early wind wind technology being deployed
in Texas that wind was going through place oil and
gas for power. And one of the findings of my
committee was there was really a pushback or a clarification
on that that if if we were going to get
(22:15):
rid of hydrocarbons, and again we're talking primarily about coal
and natural gas for power production, if we were going
to get rid of hydrocarbons, then the only technology, particularly
at the baseload level, that could step in and provide
that power was nuclear.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
Now, at the time, my company.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
Was developing the hydraulic fracturing technology that revolutionized the permium
basin and then spread to the other shell plates in
the country and ended up making the country energy independent.
Speaker 6 (22:47):
So we weren't thinking nuclear, it was it was kind
of a hypothetical argument.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
Anyway, fast fast forward, we do have a climate agenda,
and we did see coal and Texas is going to
lose lose a lot of coal generated power in the
coming years just because of the age of our facilities
and we have a growing demand. How are we going
to meet that. So that was the backstory. The way
(23:12):
I directly got involved is I heard about some research
being done to the Avenue Christian University on a technology
that had been demonstrated in the nineteen sixties that could
help meet some of the world's energy well, provide affordable
energy to lift the world out of poverty. Because they've
produced high process, he could desalinate water. Half the world
(23:32):
doesn't have safe drinking water. And because it's liquid fuel,
we have access to medical isotopes that can help image
and even treat in cure cancer. And so I thought, Wow,
these are pretty big things, and so I gave a
three million dollar gift to the university and said, this
is awesome research, please please push it forward.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
Well, that attracted the attention.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Of Governor Perry is now Secretary of Energy Pairy under
the first Trump administration, heard about the gift, heard about
the research, sent a team down from the Department of
Energy in.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
Twenty eighteen to tour.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
The labs the research being done, and their reaction was,
you guys have no idea how important it.
Speaker 6 (24:12):
Is you're working on.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
We need you to apply to DC.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
So doctor Tale, who was the head of the research
at Avelee Christian, doctor Schubert, the president of ACU, and
myself flu to d C in January of twenty nineteen
and they said, we need to beat China, we need
to beat Russia. The US has to capture this is
critical technology.
Speaker 6 (24:33):
We need you to build this reactor.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
And I held my hand up and said, okay, I'll
fund it, and Aveline Christian doctor Schubert held his hand
up and said, okay, we'll host it because we're looking
at deploying a research slash demonstration reactor on the Avenue
Christian campus. And so we walked down the hallway.
Speaker 6 (24:52):
Doctor Sherbert looked at me and said, Doug, do you
have any idea how we going to do this? And
suss they fail?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
That's how the best laid plans were not plans.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
We just figured out. Hold with me, douglemarchism nation that
can be defined in a single word. I was going
to foot him number nine.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Not only was it authentic frontier jibbery, Philix Presto, Courage, the.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Scene of This Day and the Michael Berry Show.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Nuclear energy, well, we all know about those horrible meltdowns,
we know about Chernobyl and nuclear is so dangerous we
don't want to touch.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Actually, quite the opposite.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Nuclear is clean and safe, it is efficient, it is
very effective, and unfortunately it's one of those things that
people have been afraid of pursuing that could make a
world of difference to so many aspects of our lives.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
This issue came to my attention. I've been a.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Proponent of nuclear because I've read a lot about it,
and I've had multiple interviews, some of you've heard them
on our show. We just can't seem to get it
off the ground because nobody wants to put their name
behind it, because everyone is scared of the of the
negative blowback, not of whether it'll work or not. Doug
Robinson is not scared. He is the founder and CEO
of Natural or Resources that's natural with no L on
(26:05):
the end. He's a third generation oil man and he
is our guest. So let's talk, if you would. Let's
talk to sixth graders who don't have a science background
but have a little snap and explain how this process
works in those terms.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
Generally vision and not just that someone knows how it
reactor actually functions, which I did not.
Speaker 6 (26:29):
Vision happens and when you have a pasion event, you have.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
A tremendous amount of heat that's released, and that happens
within the moderator. Chose me crap out that slows the
elements down so that they collide. When they collide, they
split and then they create more elements and that's a heat,
a tremendous amount of heat. So you have to move
that heat from that core, and that's how heat transfer. Fluid,
(26:55):
like your cooling system in your car does, reuse heat
from the engine blocked.
Speaker 6 (26:59):
To the radiator. That's all it's doing.
Speaker 5 (27:02):
So you take that heat from the core and you
transfer it to where you generate steam that turns the
turbine that makes electricity. It's a fairly simple process. The
two technologies involved are two aspects. Is what is the
fluid that you're going to remove the heat with a
lot water. The large reactors we are familiar with use water,
(27:24):
and that water flashes the steam at a very low temperature,
which is good for generating power. However, to get efficient,
you have to try to get that water as hot
as you can, which means you deal with extremely high
pressures and that's where the safety factor comes in. That's
what happened at Fukushima Nuclear reactors can't explode like a
(27:45):
nuclear bomb, but they can have a steam explosion because.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
Of the high pressure. We don't use water.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
We use molten salt, which has our salt melts at
four hundred and fifty degree C and we operated over
six hundred degrees. See, but salt never flashes to steam.
We never go to a gas, so.
Speaker 6 (28:06):
We never generate pressure.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
So that's the one big difference is why if you're coolant,
our cooling is salt, and so we operated atmosphere pressure,
which means we don't have to worry about the steam release.
And then the other is what form is your fuel?
A solid fueled reactor with again light water reactors, we're
familiar with that, they burn three to five percent of
the fuel in that fuel rod, and when that fuel
(28:31):
rod begins to decay, then you have to pull the
fuel rod because that's your first level of containment. And
now ninety five to ninety seven percent of the fuel
that is still in that fuel rod, still perfectly good fuel,
enters our waste stream and we have to figure out
where are we going to dispose of that fuel for
the next hundred thousand years. And that's a problem People
off identify our salt. Our fuel is melted in the salt,
(28:56):
which is our heat transfer fluid, the same that you
would say, melt sugar in your coffee. Sure, what that
means is we do not generate unspent on nuclear fuel.
We burned one hundred percent of the fuel in the reactor,
and so we don't generate that fuel.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
That you have to where we're going to dispose of this.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
In fact, molten salt reactors have the ability to take
those existing stockpiles of spent nuclear fuel and again ninety
five ninety seven percent of the good of the fuel
is still there and reutilize that in a molten salt
reactor and ternate into energy or heat.
Speaker 6 (29:33):
Or showing that what we're going to do with it.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
So in the traditional all patch, that's like taking your
flare and putting that to liquid natural gas or some
other purpose. You're you're basically, uh, you know, the ad
guys and the foody guys will tell you that's like
the Pewter to the Tutor movement, the whole hog the
you know that that's using everything right.
Speaker 5 (29:53):
That's right, that's right, yeah, And the best way to
understand when you refuil your car, your truck. You don't
empty your gas can and throw the gasoline in. Wait,
you just add new gas to it. Right, Well, that's
what we do about reactor. We never throw the field away.
We just keep adding fuel to it and operating.
Speaker 6 (30:10):
So those are the.
Speaker 5 (30:10):
Two big differences. Multa soft cooled liquid field reactor. That's
what makes it a generation for reactor, which was built
and demonstrated in the nineteen sixties at oak Ridge National Laboratory.
So it's a proven technology.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Which interestingly, the Oakridge Boys are famous for. They were
once the Georgia Cloudhoppers, but they were the house band
for folks that were there working for the United States government.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Little known fact. This is really interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
What are the challenges presumably regulatory but also capital requirements.
Where does this go as a financial vida? I how
do I get in early on the friends and family
early rays?
Speaker 6 (30:53):
Well two two.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Questions is the challenge is you identified it exactly?
Speaker 6 (30:57):
Regulatory? So part of the project.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
In twenty twenty, I was retiring from the only gas
industry I retired. I think it lasted seven months. I
say I retired long enough to buy a bass boat,
but I still haven't gotten any better at fishing because
I decided to do the nuclear mist.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
We'll leave that to build dance. He's already dominated it anyway.
Speaker 6 (31:18):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
I'll let others have fun doing that. So when we
started in twenty twenty, I formed in the Toural Resources
and we put together I put together in the Toural
Research Alliance, which the knowledge inlectual knowledge about advanced reactor
resides primarily at the universities. So I funded research at
(31:42):
the University of Texas, Texas A and m Georgia Institute
of Technology and Evening Christian University, and put thirty million
dollars from the tour into those universities to do the research,
but really to prepare the application the construction permit for
the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
Speaker 6 (32:00):
You cannot build a reactor in the United States.
Speaker 5 (32:02):
Without a construction permit from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. I'm
an only gask guy on how to get the production
as quickly as possible. Let's get that permit. So we
spent we had one hundred and fifty researchers. We spent
two years preparing the permit. We submitted that in August
of twenty to twenty two the NRC docketed, which means
they accepted the permit, and they spent fifteen thousand man
(32:24):
hours reviewing that application up to eighty examiners at the NRC,
which I considered the gold standard of safety in the world.
And then we answered over three hundred questions and we
did that successfully and we received our construction permit in
September of twenty and twenty four. The very first advanced
liquid fuel reactor ever licensed in the United States now
(32:48):
becomes and you also identified it capital and that's where
we are now. We just completed our current capital raids.
We've done everything that everything we've done so far been
with private funding, and so we're continuing to work with
private funding.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
But as we continue to d risk of this project.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
Which is part of the responsibility of the tour to
do is to show the financial community, can you get
a permit?
Speaker 6 (33:16):
Yes, we've got a permit. Do you know how much
is going to cost?
Speaker 5 (33:20):
We have a detailed engineering design, we're entering into the
EBT agreements, we're establishing supply chains and vendors. Yes, we
know how much does it cost to you? And how
you how long it's going to build it? So we're
answering all of those questions, and you get to the
point where you've got it d risked enough where the
financial community says, i'd say the financial community, the institutional
financial committee community says all right, we're ready to invest.
(33:42):
And that's when you build an industry. When you have
that level of money, get the table.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
We would like to have you back to discuss this further.
As this process progresses.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
We wish you the absolute best, not just through your
own investment of time, energy, passion, but this is good
for America. Doug Robinson, a CEO and founder of Natural Resources.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
Thank you, sir, great bulth.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
You give reflections that is left good.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Thank you, and good night
It's that time time, time, time, luck and load. So
Michael Verie Show is on the air.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Doctor Joe Digney is our guest. He's the pastor at
Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho. He's written eight books, the
aforementioned Sin of Empathy and now the book Leadership and
Emotional Sabotage. Take us back to why this is necessary?
What does emotional sabotage have to do with leadership.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Of agitation and angst the turmoil and disruption? Everybody, i think,
feels a sense that no one's in control and that
things are running all all different ways. And as a result,
the leaders who have meant to act as the shock
absorbers for society can easily begin to abdicate their responsibility
to steward their institutions. That happens in homes, it happens
(01:14):
in churches, it happens in schools, and it happens in nations.
And so in that book, I'm seeking to kind of
diagnose that problem, what are its roots? Why do we
feel like we're sitting on this powder keg? And then
to offer solutions, what does it mean to be courageous
and sober minded in the midst of this agitation? And
the basic paradigm I offer there is that we live
in a society.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
That has become drunk on passions.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Passions, our emotions are immediate and instinctive emotions. When you
see something good, you want it. When you see something scary,
you fear it. When you see something sad, you grieve it.
And our passions, we can become drunk on them, they
become in the driver's seat. And I instead want to
argue that one of the core virtues we have to
(01:57):
recover is sober mindedness. We need to be sober, We
need to sober up, which means that we have a
clarity of mind and that we're stable. We have a
stability in our souls that anchors us when these big
anxiety storms and social stampedes run across our path, and
we're ready to act. We're ready to lean in. We
don't advocate and are passive, but instead we step up
(02:18):
to the plate and we have the courage to follow
through and fulfill the responsibilities that God has given to us.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
What has been the reaction of leaders, whether in the church,
the corporate world, education, or politics, to this book. Have
there been people who said I didn't recognize I was
subjected to this. I didn't recognize this was a cancer
upon me. I disagree with you. What have folks said?
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
So this you know you mentioned that I mentioned I've
written about eight books. Leadership and Emotional Sabotage is by
far the best selling. It's it's really struck a nerve
and it's kind of taken on a life of its own.
It's surprising to me the places I've I've come across
that I have I've had I would have no connection
to otherwise. I'm a I'm a pastor in a small
town and a small Christian school.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
This was a book published.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
By a small Christian publisher, and I know that cabinet secretaries,
pastors of megachurches, Uh, you know, colonels and generals in
the military are reading it in order to help them
lead the institutions that they're a part of.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
So it's been it's been surprising.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
To me the places that this book has been able
to get because I think partly the title is catchy.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Thanks publisher.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
And it's a short book, It's only one hundred or
so pages, but it really tries to give a paradigm
shift for how you should lead in the face of
all of the attempts to steer and sabotage you when
you seek to be a faithful leader.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
That is very interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Wow, as you begin a project like this, I'm curious
to know your writing process. Is there is there a spark?
Is this a ministry? Is there an idea? Is is
it a question? You are often asked by parishioners or
people buy email?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And then how do how does that.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Work from from there to the very difficult task that
you have done, which is completing the work?
Speaker 6 (04:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Usually you know.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
So, I'm a teacher, professor by by trade, that's my
main vocation, and so I usually teach them reading things,
and I'm teaching them in classes and that's where I
kind of refined my ideas and they also get refined
in sermons and in counseling sessions with parishioners.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
And so that's where the that all bubbles up. And
eventually there's usually a spark, either a request or in
this case, the publisher said, Hey, would you be interested
in doing some videos for their website for their streaming
service called Cannon Plus. If you're lead listeners are interested,
it's called Cannon Plus. It's like a kind of a
(04:57):
combination of Audible and Netflix, but for wholesome Christian family content.
And then they asked I again of Yeah, Canon C A,
N O, N plus P l U S Canon plus
dot com and and they asked if I would do
a series of basically teachings lessons on things that I'd
(05:18):
done on leadership, and so I said sure, And so
I put together a series of six lessons. And as
I completed those and delivered them, I realized, you know,
if I think if I were to fill this out.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I'd have a nice little book, And so I did.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
I added about another ten thousand words or so, and
that became Leadership and Emotional Sabotage. So it's it's usually
that sort of process of coming out of my teaching
and then being refined, and then the spark of the
moment arises when I'm able to actually complete the project.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
What is your time? I asked all authors this, So
what is your time that you write? Is it just
when it comes to you or do you set usacific time?
And how long is that? I'm always curious everybody has
a different writing process.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Usually I let ideas germinate for a while, and I'll
usually do a kind of writing retreat.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
I'll walk off a few days.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Where I really try to immerse myself and I'll think
carefully about structure. Sometimes deadlines force things upon me, so
I have a chapter that I need to complete by
a certain time, or a sermon that I need to
complete by a certain day. Sometimes my speaking opportunities give
me opportunity, an opportunity to pull together content to deliver
in a forty five minute window, and that kind of
(06:34):
forces me to get everything together. So those are all
various ways that I'm kind of forced to pull things
together in order to deliver them to who needs them.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Ernest Himingway in talking about because it's such a prolific writer.
His advice to other writers was, every day, say one
honest thing, make one offer one honest sentence, and if
you have another honest sentence to add to it, great,
(07:08):
And as long as you can add an honest sentence.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
To that, you are writing.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
But he was clear that some days there may only
be one honest sentence. The woman walked into the room
and sat down and was beheld by all the people.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Okay, that's it.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I was curious with your writing process if that tends
to be in chunks or if that is the discipline,
Because we all have a book.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
In us right, whether we get it out or not.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
So many people journal Marcus Latrell, Dear Friend of Mine,
Lone Survivor was based on the fact that, thank goodness,
since he was eight years old, he'd kept a journal,
and he.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Did throughout his ordeal.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So this was a guy who made it a habit
to always write, and his writing became a bestseller and
a big movie and all sorts of things. I'm curious
about the discipline it takes to complete that process, and
not just yours, which which has a Christian perspective. We
all have a story to tell in writing Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
That you know what was about?
Speaker 6 (08:09):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
The idea that when the books are gone, the knowledge
is gone and then you can recreate you know, your
own truth. We'll continue our conversation with doctor Joe Rigney
don't you call me Hey, don't you call me?
Speaker 5 (08:29):
Doctor?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Joe Disney is our guest.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Was a fellow of theology at New Saint Andrew's Church
and he is a an author.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
We talked earlier about his book The.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Sin of Empathy, which which spoke to me and my
theory of the naive neighbor. We also talked about his book,
which is his best seller yet, Leadership and Emotional Savage
a sabotage, not savage. Leadership and emotional sabotage, something that
probably speaks to a number of you. His third book
going backward is Courage How the Gospel Creates Christian Fortitude.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
It feels like.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Christians today are being slapped around, particularly the very strong
influence of Islam into previously dominantly Christian nations, and it
feels that Christians are somewhat cowardly, afraid to stand up. Well,
we've had it so good, and we're from many of us,
we're so white that we don't want to be a
(09:24):
strong Christian. We're ashamed, we don't want to be the oppressor.
And that's not what my Bible commands me. That's not
taking up your cross, that is not suffering, that is
not going there for and preaching and witnessing and sharing
against the tides and against the shame. It's necessary, it's
part of the process. So tell me about Courage, How
(09:46):
the Gospel Creates Christian Fortitude.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yeah, well, that was the book that I was asked
to write because of various sermons that I've given, and
that way, it really is driven by the this reality
that living is Christ and dying is gain. And if
dying is gain, it means you have nothing to fear
and you can just go for it. And the Bible
is filled with these exhortations. Think of the beginning of
(10:11):
the Book of Joshua. Be strong and curatious, courageous. Why
because the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.
So God's presence is meant to be an empowerment for
our own strength and courage as we face the challenges
that are put before us, and we do with In
an age when which people are afraid, in which they're
cowardice is often it's masked in various ways. No one
(10:32):
wants to admit that they're a coward. It's shameful, but
we can find all sorts of ways to excuse our
cowardice in the name of prudence or wisdom. In fact,
that's all quote the other day where someone says when
courage is needed, the coward says that what's needed is prudence,
And I thought, that's that's pretty right. People often use
(10:52):
other good things as excuses to avoid doing hard things,
and so in that book, I'm simply trying to show
failures of courage. Play is where in the scriptures people
did fear and that courage. Both cowardice and courage are
are contagious. Which is why it really matters how many
people went along with all sorts of folly over the
last ten or fifteen years, say in their workplace, and
(11:14):
all it would have taken is one person standing up
and saying, I don't think this is right. I think
that this is crazy. I think that this is unjust,
and they would have discovered that there were a whole
lot of other people who were thinking that, but we're
afraid to say so. And I think that there's a
number of churches that discovered this through COVID, whose numbers
swelled as they were willing to resist the kind of
(11:35):
COVID tyranny that came down from a number of states.
And their simple willingness to say, you know what, we're
going to meet it matters, we need to worship God together.
And their willingness to simply plant a flag and say
we're going.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
To do this despite what the government is saying.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Rallied people to their banner, and whereas churches that compromised
and that we're kind of cowardly and went along with
a lot of folly and a whole post of ways
have found their numbers swindling.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
We had a pastor on Ramon.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Do you remember where he was somewhere in Canada, and
he was something like Albanian, so he had very heavily
accented English and he kind of yelled when he spoke.
He was very intense, he was older, and they can't.
They burst into his church and he started screaming at them,
and I think he was Jewish, and I think he
was basically saying, this is what the Nazis did, and
this is exactly when we're going to stand up to you.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
You're not going to do this, And they didn't know
what to do right.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
These these officers are real tough until somebody pushes back
and then they're not. And it was amazing the strength
of character and conviction this man, and we had him
on multiple times.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I think he has since died.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
But his point was, my Bible urges me to open
not despite COVID or not despite COVID. Because of COVID.
We need the church more now than ever and thought
it was a great point.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Right, that's absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
And we see this kind of example in the scriptures,
in both in Christ and in.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
The Apostle Paul. The Apostle Paul, everywhere.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
He went he ran into mobs, he ran into opposition
from the authorities, he ran into persecution, and he never
shrank from it. He welcomed it, and he saw it
as an opportunity to testify to what God had called
him to testify. And so there's a number of places
in which we see him. For example, at one point
in the Book of Acts, he's just been beaten by
(13:28):
a mob, and then when the cops show up, they
arrest him for getting beaten, which is how it typically goes,
and as he's being carried off, he actually pauses and
asks the Roman tribute, could I say something to the people.
So here you have a moment in which he's just
been beaten, he's being taken to jail, and what he's
thinking about is this is an opportunity for me to
address these people, to try to once again testify to
(13:50):
what Christ has done for me. And he gives his testimony,
and he end that testimony that you want.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
To kill him again? But the point is that he
took the shot.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
He was not afraid because of these circumstances, and it
didn't lead him to shrink back in fear, but instead
he stepped up to the play why because he knew
God is with me, God is for me, and this
is what God has called me to do, and he
will equip me to do it.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
And if God before me, who can be against me?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
And once you fully understand that you don't need to
fear anything else, it does not mean they're not going
to kill you. It does not mean they're not going
to stone you, or that you're not going to suffer,
but that suffering is sometimes righteous.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
And I believe that in my heart of hearts.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
It's probably why my three heroes growing up were all
killed for their conviction, one of whom was resurrected. But
I guess that message has always meant a lot to me,
and it's always meant I respect Trump for the fact
that no matter the more they push him, the harder
(14:49):
he comes back. And there are very few people who
would have done that. Most people would have taken the
message and gone away. Someone who can stay in the fight,
I'll tell you that I admire you've had some association
with Colorado is a masterpiece. Cake guy in Colorado. They
destroyed that man's business. They bankrupted him all because they
bake a cake boy. And he said, no, I can't.
(15:12):
I'll see you next door. I'll pay for the cake,
I'll do it, but I won't do it. And he
just stays in there and keeps going, and they keep
tormenting that poor man.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
That's absolutely right, and it's a in his case, it's
not allowed demanding courage. It's a simply quiet resolve to
do what's right. And the reality is that you're going
to fear somebody.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
The question is whom.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
So it's not that we don't have any fear. It's
that we fear God first, and then when we face
opposition from men, we may even feel some fear. But
one of the things I point out in that book
is that courage is not the absence of fear, it's
the mastery of it. The fear may be present and
maybe palpable, you can feel it rising up in your gut.
But what God calls us to do is to trust him,
and by entrusting him to have the fortitude of mind
(15:58):
to subdue our fears and continue to act for the
good that he's called us to, even in the face
of dangers and opposition. And you saw that, You see
that with Jack Phelps, you see that with a number
of other folks who have not gone looking for a fight.
They're not brawlers, they're not quarrelsome, and they're not looking
to be culture warriors of any sense. He just wanted
to bake his cakes, but God called him to it
(16:21):
by circumstances, and he was willing to be faithful at
his post.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
And you have been faithful as a guest for the truth,
and we have enjoyed having you.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
We will have you back again. Doctor Joe Rigney, you're wonderful.
Thank you, sermon.
Speaker 7 (16:37):
Doug King of Ding and this other guy, Michael Barry.
Speaker 6 (16:42):
These are the kind of guys.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
You're like a smack and air.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Doug Robinson, no relation to the great Charlie Robinson, at
least that we know of, is the natural resources founder
and CEO of a company we're about to hear about.
And it came to our attention because he's friends with
my dentist, doctor Guy Lewis, who owns Texas Cosmetic Dental,
and he told me you need to watch this interview
(17:10):
on Fox Business with Maria Barbiromo the following morning at
six am, because I have spoken at length about our
need to use the most efficient forms of energy that
are available and cost effective, and.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
One of those is nuclear. But people are scared of it.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
And he said, I know you'll be interested in it,
and I'll let you listen to what I heard with Maria,
and you tell me.
Speaker 8 (17:37):
Welcome a President Trump prioritizing American energy independence, making one
of his priorities in his first one hundred days, and
support for restoring nuclear energy as well. Fox Visits is
Jeff Flock is live in Abilene, Texas right now with more.
Speaker 7 (17:52):
Jeff, all of the above. Maria and I come to
you this morning from the future. I am surrounded by
four feet thick concrete walls.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
This.
Speaker 7 (18:01):
You know, we hear a lot about these modular nuclear reactors.
Well you're actually seeing one being built right now. It's
on the campus of Ablene Christian University, and a lot of.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
People think this is the future.
Speaker 7 (18:13):
They have made tremendous progress, as you see on the
other side of the screen there building this. There's only
two companies that now have a permit to build a
modular next generation nuclear reactor. And we're with a man
behind one of them, Doug Robinson, an unlikely fellows to
be deleting this and that you're a third generation oil man,
but you believe deeply in these small modular nuclear reactors.
(18:36):
Tell me why you're so.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
We have a proven technology one built in the sixties.
Small module nuclear is safe, affordable, clean, dispatchable, and we
have a permit from a new Conrogratory commission to construct
our reactor.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
And we have a.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Team here that is dedicated to making that happen as
quick clean sponsor.
Speaker 7 (18:55):
I want to show on the other side of the
screen again some of the research you're doing right now.
You're getting close and you use molten salt. This is
not a solid fuel reactor. This is a liquid fuel
And tell you about molten salt. How does hell work?
Speaker 5 (19:10):
So, if it's a generation for technology, the kulant where
you move the heat from the reactor core to where
you generate electricity, we use molten salt instead of water.
The advantage of that is that we operate at extremely
hot temperatures, which is very valuable. But we operated almost
no pressure because molten salt is not converted to a gas,
so we don't have the pressure to state this interesting or.
Speaker 7 (19:30):
Yeah, I want to show you the states now there
are trying to.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Lead away on this.
Speaker 7 (19:34):
You've got more than half of the country now passing laws.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
To help you.
Speaker 7 (19:39):
Despite that, you're not getting any money, no federal money,
no state money. You're self financing this project.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
We have privately financed this project from day one. Now
I did start on with go to rabbits Advanced Nuclear
Working Group that Texas legislature is considering along with other states,
how they can incentivize these businesses, these new industries in
their states.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
We'll see what happens here in Texas.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
But today we're being one hunder percent of public privately financed.
Speaker 7 (20:03):
Worry, before we get away, I just want to show
you one thing. There's only two of these that exists
now in the country. This is the multi salt reactor
approval from the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission. This could be
the future. A man who spent his career in the
oil industry says nuclear look out for it.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Absolutely, chat energy is everything, folks, It is everything. Military
historians will tell you that the single biggest impediment to
Hitler winning was he ran out of gas. It made
him do stupid things in Russia. He didn't learn the
lesson that Napoleon Bonaparte before him, that that was a
bad place to go in the winter. Energy is everything
(20:43):
to our quality of life, to our investments, to our transportation,
to everything. And I am delighted to see a man
with a lifetime in the oil business recognizing, promoting supporting nuclear.
Doug Robinson, thank you for being our guest. Welcome to
the program, pleasure, Thank you very much for having me.
(21:03):
So how did you get involved with nuclear?
Speaker 1 (21:06):
How does this end up on your desk?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And how do you go from because I know the
immediate reaction is I don't know nuclear, I know all.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
And that's probably still true to a great extent. There's
a little bit of a history to it. In two
thousand and four, Governor Rick Perry appointed me to the
Texans Energy Planning Council and I chaired the Energy Supply Committee.
So you have to go back twenty plus years.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
There was not a climate agenda.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
We had all of the energy we needed in the
form of primarily coal had always been the workhorse of
our grid and of course natural gas and oil and
other forms, including nuclear.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
But in the.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
Context of that work, there were some early claims being
made some of the early wind wind technology being deployed
in Texas that wind was going through place oil and
gas for power. And one of the findings of my
committee was there was really a pushback or a clarification
on that that if if we were going to get
(22:15):
rid of hydrocarbons, and again we're talking primarily about coal
and natural gas for power production, if we were going
to get rid of hydrocarbons, then the only technology, particularly
at the baseload level, that could step in and provide
that power was nuclear.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
Now, at the time, my company.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
Was developing the hydraulic fracturing technology that revolutionized the permium
basin and then spread to the other shell plates in
the country and ended up making the country energy independent.
Speaker 6 (22:47):
So we weren't thinking nuclear, it was it was kind
of a hypothetical argument.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
Anyway, fast fast forward, we do have a climate agenda,
and we did see coal and Texas is going to
lose lose a lot of coal generated power in the
coming years just because of the age of our facilities
and we have a growing demand. How are we going
to meet that. So that was the backstory. The way
(23:12):
I directly got involved is I heard about some research
being done to the Avenue Christian University on a technology
that had been demonstrated in the nineteen sixties that could
help meet some of the world's energy well, provide affordable
energy to lift the world out of poverty. Because they've
produced high process, he could desalinate water. Half the world
(23:32):
doesn't have safe drinking water. And because it's liquid fuel,
we have access to medical isotopes that can help image
and even treat in cure cancer. And so I thought, Wow,
these are pretty big things, and so I gave a
three million dollar gift to the university and said, this
is awesome research, please please push it forward.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
Well, that attracted the attention.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Of Governor Perry is now Secretary of Energy Pairy under
the first Trump administration, heard about the gift, heard about
the research, sent a team down from the Department of
Energy in.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
Twenty eighteen to tour.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
The labs the research being done, and their reaction was,
you guys have no idea how important it.
Speaker 6 (24:12):
Is you're working on.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
We need you to apply to DC.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
So doctor Tale, who was the head of the research
at Avelee Christian, doctor Schubert, the president of ACU, and
myself flu to d C in January of twenty nineteen
and they said, we need to beat China, we need
to beat Russia. The US has to capture this is
critical technology.
Speaker 6 (24:33):
We need you to build this reactor.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
And I held my hand up and said, okay, I'll
fund it, and Aveline Christian doctor Schubert held his hand
up and said, okay, we'll host it because we're looking
at deploying a research slash demonstration reactor on the Avenue
Christian campus. And so we walked down the hallway.
Speaker 6 (24:52):
Doctor Sherbert looked at me and said, Doug, do you
have any idea how we going to do this? And
suss they fail?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
That's how the best laid plans were not plans.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
We just figured out. Hold with me, douglemarchism nation that
can be defined in a single word. I was going
to foot him number nine.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Not only was it authentic frontier jibbery, Philix Presto, Courage, the.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Scene of This Day and the Michael Berry Show.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Nuclear energy, well, we all know about those horrible meltdowns,
we know about Chernobyl and nuclear is so dangerous we
don't want to touch.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Actually, quite the opposite.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Nuclear is clean and safe, it is efficient, it is
very effective, and unfortunately it's one of those things that
people have been afraid of pursuing that could make a
world of difference to so many aspects of our lives.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
This issue came to my attention. I've been a.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Proponent of nuclear because I've read a lot about it,
and I've had multiple interviews, some of you've heard them
on our show. We just can't seem to get it
off the ground because nobody wants to put their name
behind it, because everyone is scared of the of the
negative blowback, not of whether it'll work or not. Doug
Robinson is not scared. He is the founder and CEO
of Natural or Resources that's natural with no L on
(26:05):
the end. He's a third generation oil man and he
is our guest. So let's talk, if you would. Let's
talk to sixth graders who don't have a science background
but have a little snap and explain how this process
works in those terms.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
Generally vision and not just that someone knows how it
reactor actually functions, which I did not.
Speaker 6 (26:29):
Vision happens and when you have a pasion event, you have.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
A tremendous amount of heat that's released, and that happens
within the moderator. Chose me crap out that slows the
elements down so that they collide. When they collide, they
split and then they create more elements and that's a heat,
a tremendous amount of heat. So you have to move
that heat from that core, and that's how heat transfer. Fluid,
(26:55):
like your cooling system in your car does, reuse heat
from the engine blocked.
Speaker 6 (26:59):
To the radiator. That's all it's doing.
Speaker 5 (27:02):
So you take that heat from the core and you
transfer it to where you generate steam that turns the
turbine that makes electricity. It's a fairly simple process. The
two technologies involved are two aspects. Is what is the
fluid that you're going to remove the heat with a
lot water. The large reactors we are familiar with use water,
(27:24):
and that water flashes the steam at a very low temperature,
which is good for generating power. However, to get efficient,
you have to try to get that water as hot
as you can, which means you deal with extremely high
pressures and that's where the safety factor comes in. That's
what happened at Fukushima Nuclear reactors can't explode like a
(27:45):
nuclear bomb, but they can have a steam explosion because.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
Of the high pressure. We don't use water.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
We use molten salt, which has our salt melts at
four hundred and fifty degree C and we operated over
six hundred degrees. See, but salt never flashes to steam.
We never go to a gas, so.
Speaker 6 (28:06):
We never generate pressure.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
So that's the one big difference is why if you're coolant,
our cooling is salt, and so we operated atmosphere pressure,
which means we don't have to worry about the steam release.
And then the other is what form is your fuel?
A solid fueled reactor with again light water reactors, we're
familiar with that, they burn three to five percent of
the fuel in that fuel rod, and when that fuel
(28:31):
rod begins to decay, then you have to pull the
fuel rod because that's your first level of containment. And
now ninety five to ninety seven percent of the fuel
that is still in that fuel rod, still perfectly good fuel,
enters our waste stream and we have to figure out
where are we going to dispose of that fuel for
the next hundred thousand years. And that's a problem People
off identify our salt. Our fuel is melted in the salt,
(28:56):
which is our heat transfer fluid, the same that you
would say, melt sugar in your coffee. Sure, what that
means is we do not generate unspent on nuclear fuel.
We burned one hundred percent of the fuel in the reactor,
and so we don't generate that fuel.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
That you have to where we're going to dispose of this.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
In fact, molten salt reactors have the ability to take
those existing stockpiles of spent nuclear fuel and again ninety
five ninety seven percent of the good of the fuel
is still there and reutilize that in a molten salt
reactor and ternate into energy or heat.
Speaker 6 (29:33):
Or showing that what we're going to do with it.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
So in the traditional all patch, that's like taking your
flare and putting that to liquid natural gas or some
other purpose. You're you're basically, uh, you know, the ad
guys and the foody guys will tell you that's like
the Pewter to the Tutor movement, the whole hog the
you know that that's using everything right.
Speaker 5 (29:53):
That's right, that's right, yeah, And the best way to
understand when you refuil your car, your truck. You don't
empty your gas can and throw the gasoline in. Wait,
you just add new gas to it. Right, Well, that's
what we do about reactor. We never throw the field away.
We just keep adding fuel to it and operating.
Speaker 6 (30:10):
So those are the.
Speaker 5 (30:10):
Two big differences. Multa soft cooled liquid field reactor. That's
what makes it a generation for reactor, which was built
and demonstrated in the nineteen sixties at oak Ridge National Laboratory.
So it's a proven technology.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Which interestingly, the Oakridge Boys are famous for. They were
once the Georgia Cloudhoppers, but they were the house band
for folks that were there working for the United States government.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Little known fact. This is really interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
What are the challenges presumably regulatory but also capital requirements.
Where does this go as a financial vida? I how
do I get in early on the friends and family
early rays?
Speaker 6 (30:53):
Well two two.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Questions is the challenge is you identified it exactly?
Speaker 6 (30:57):
Regulatory? So part of the project.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
In twenty twenty, I was retiring from the only gas
industry I retired. I think it lasted seven months. I
say I retired long enough to buy a bass boat,
but I still haven't gotten any better at fishing because
I decided to do the nuclear mist.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
We'll leave that to build dance. He's already dominated it anyway.
Speaker 6 (31:18):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
I'll let others have fun doing that. So when we
started in twenty twenty, I formed in the Toural Resources
and we put together I put together in the Toural
Research Alliance, which the knowledge inlectual knowledge about advanced reactor
resides primarily at the universities. So I funded research at
(31:42):
the University of Texas, Texas A and m Georgia Institute
of Technology and Evening Christian University, and put thirty million
dollars from the tour into those universities to do the research,
but really to prepare the application the construction permit for
the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
Speaker 6 (32:00):
You cannot build a reactor in the United States.
Speaker 5 (32:02):
Without a construction permit from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. I'm
an only gask guy on how to get the production
as quickly as possible. Let's get that permit. So we
spent we had one hundred and fifty researchers. We spent
two years preparing the permit. We submitted that in August
of twenty to twenty two the NRC docketed, which means
they accepted the permit, and they spent fifteen thousand man
(32:24):
hours reviewing that application up to eighty examiners at the NRC,
which I considered the gold standard of safety in the world.
And then we answered over three hundred questions and we
did that successfully and we received our construction permit in
September of twenty and twenty four. The very first advanced
liquid fuel reactor ever licensed in the United States now
(32:48):
becomes and you also identified it capital and that's where
we are now. We just completed our current capital raids.
We've done everything that everything we've done so far been
with private funding, and so we're continuing to work with
private funding.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
But as we continue to d risk of this project.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
Which is part of the responsibility of the tour to
do is to show the financial community, can you get
a permit?
Speaker 6 (33:16):
Yes, we've got a permit. Do you know how much
is going to cost?
Speaker 5 (33:20):
We have a detailed engineering design, we're entering into the
EBT agreements, we're establishing supply chains and vendors. Yes, we
know how much does it cost to you? And how
you how long it's going to build it? So we're
answering all of those questions, and you get to the
point where you've got it d risked enough where the
financial community says, i'd say the financial community, the institutional
financial committee community says all right, we're ready to invest.
(33:42):
And that's when you build an industry. When you have
that level of money, get the table.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
We would like to have you back to discuss this further.
As this process progresses.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
We wish you the absolute best, not just through your
own investment of time, energy, passion, but this is good
for America. Doug Robinson, a CEO and founder of Natural Resources.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
Thank you, sir, great bulth.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
You give reflections that is left good.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Thank you, and good night
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