Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yesterday, we were having a whole conversation about what about
what scares people and not like phobias, like I'm afraid.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Of snakes or sharks or clowns or something like that.
And remember number.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
The number one answer by like seventy percent of people
was like government corruption.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
There was becoming disabled.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I can't remember what else was on the list, but
there was like a whole string of things on the.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
List, pollution, pollution.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
World War III, RUSS ears and nuclear attacks, the drought anyway.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Anyway, one of the things that was on there was.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
The fear or one of the things that people are
scared of is someone that they love or someone very
close to them dying more so than themselves, somebody close
to them dying. So somebody sent me something yesterday, and listen,
I don't I don't don't have OCD, so I didn't
(01:01):
put two and two together. But this thing is about
I'll just read it you ready. My cat died in
twenty thirteen. Fine, everyone everyone said that I always treated
my cat like it was one of my children. The
cat got so sick, so suddenly it freaked me out
(01:21):
pretty badly. That's fine. People lose pets. I understand that.
Then my dad died out of nowhere in twenty eighteen.
I just want I just wanted to die to be
with him. He was my best friend. I also understand
that feeling. Of course, now I'm afraid I'll lose anyone
(01:44):
at any time. I have OCD, and all of my
rituals are focused around keeping my mom, my sister, my spouse,
my current cats, and everybody that I love alive. I
text my mom constantly, and if she doesn't answer for
a few hours, I panic. I started crying and hyperventilating.
(02:11):
If I don't get her usual I'm ok morning text
to the point where I'm ready to drive to her apartment,
and in my head, I am prepared that.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I will see her dead body. Got is that common
for somebody? For two things?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Number one for somebody with OCD, right, and OCD could
be everything. But if you are OCD and you lose
a loved one, if I mean, listen, we learned that yesterday.
That's one of the top ten fears or or things
that most people are afraid of, is losing someone someone
near them dying.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
If you have OCD, does that.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
And I don't mean this, this is gonna come out
bad and I don't mean it that way. Does that
spin you into like a badspiral?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Well, Diane, no.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
But you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I do know what you mean.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Yeah, it must Now will it automatically? I'm not saying that,
but it's cairly it can.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And I would assume. I would assume, and again I
don't have a CHRISTI will you do me a favor?
Will you find me a couple of OCD ers. I
would assume that there are people who have OCD and
that's already their thing.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, where it's.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Like I have to hear from my mom, my dad,
my wife, my husband, my kid, whatever it is, every
day at whatever. And if I don't hear from them
by eight, eight thirty nine, whatever everybody's routine is, I
(03:49):
am not good for the rest of the day. I
would assume that those people already exist. If that's not
your what did they call it, ritual?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Whatever? But then somebody does die? Does that? Does that
spin you?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Or are you aware from talking to people maybe being
in support groups? Are you not suffering from this element yet?
But but you're going to worry about this happening?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Oh, where people have said, oh, this is common get ready.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
It's almost like this disorder complicates everything seriously whenever LCD
comes up. You remember a few months ago we were
just talking about like cooking, like recipes.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Oh, they got to keep starting everything over.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Oh that was a pain. Yeah that was this. Yeah,
this would be bad.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Oh. I think Jackie and I knew somebody and I
can't remember who it was, but they were like this,
don't I don't maybe it was OCD. I have no idea,
but like if like the whole family did I don't know,
if it was like wordle or some game with streaks,
and if somebody in the family didn't post their score
(05:08):
or whatever it was, oh, well they must be dead, right,
it'd be like no, or like maybe they just woke
up late or they just didn't do it today or whatever.
But in their mind it was something bad. I don't
know if it sprung to death, but it was something bad.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Yeah, there's catastrophizing and then there's these examples.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yes, m M, how do you manage that the story
you read gummies, I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
No, I don't know, Like, I don't know how you don't.
I don't know how anybody would do that. Like I'm
I don't have OCD, Thank god. I don't know how
you would manage any of it. Wow, I wouldn't be
able to manage the light on, light off, light on,
light off, light on light that's a different light off.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, it's completely different. But that's also an OCD.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
And he's also speaking from the perspective of partner that
he couldn't manage it as someone in their life.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Oh no, no, no, oh my god, Jackie Jesus Christ,
let's go. Oh yeah, no, I would not be I'm
not cut out for that. And listen, I'm sure I
do things that annoy people, but not like that.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
It would probably be your why are we starting the
meal over?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Because I didn't. I can't follow the recipe. That's that's it. Off. Yeah,
I would not be good in that environment. Where am
I going? Line? Fo Hi Ellie of the morning.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Hey, I have similar issues with OCD, not focused around
keeping everybody safe and alive, and it did get significantly
worse after I had a string of family death and
then a string of two of my dogs dying unexpectedly
(07:05):
that really kind of ramped everything up. So it's it's
very much like it's not just like switching a light
on and off. It's the thought process that your brain
leads you down where it's like, Okay, if I don't
make sure that this light is on and off and
I have to test it multiple times, then there's going
to be an electrical fire and my house is going
(07:25):
to burn down, and my husband's going to die and
all my dogs are going to die. So OCD kind
of leads your brain down that path of everything that
could go wrong. If you're not hyper vigilant about checking
on your surroundings constantly, checking in on your family constantly,
you just go to this place, do.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
You check in? Can I can? I? Can I have? Where?
Where do you live?
Speaker 5 (07:49):
So I right now I live about forty five minutes
outside of Boston.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Okay, where do where does your like your family live?
Speaker 5 (07:58):
So all of our family is back in the DFD area.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
So does that does that like if you don't hear
from like, I know you said there was a string
of family deaths.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I don't know who died. But if you.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
If you like, if you don't, if you like, if
if you don't hear from your dad in the morning, like,
it's not like you could just get in the car
and drive over like that you're in Boston.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Yeah, So luckily I went through treatment after it kind
of came to a head and I ended up having
to quit a previous job and everything. So luckily, now
I'm doing better, and you know, I went on medication
for a while, I went through you know, therapy for
a while. So now I have the ability to kind
(08:42):
of try to talk myself out of that thought. But yeah,
if it, you know, if it's really bad on a
particular day for whatever reason, it just I have to
very consciously be aware of my actions to not kind
of overreact to that thought. But yeah, I'll just like
(09:03):
kind of send a text message or a call, you know,
and just like be very like glued to my phone
for a response.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Right.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
But it's been it's been better with you know, going
through treatment, getting on medication, and doing those in conjunction
to giving yourself the tools to be able to walk
yourself down from that ledge. Because previously, when it was
really bad, luckily I still lived in Virginia, I would
absolutely just randomly show up at people's places, right.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
And I get Yeah, I get it. I don't get it,
but I get it, you know what I mean, Like
I understand No, like I would never get that, but
I understand for someone like you that you would.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I get that, I get.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
That, I get yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
Yeah, it's hard to fully understand unless like you're living
under this, like fear in this like feeling so real
to you, like I've I've had to leave my my
job early to go back home too, because I didn't
check the front door enough. And I'm like, Okay, if
(10:13):
you know the door is going to be open, my
dogs are going to open it. They're going to run
into the roads, they're going to get hit. So I've
had to leave my job before just to go home
to double check doors, double check the oven, like all
these types of things.
Speaker 6 (10:26):
So it's it's.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Like I have to listen to Elliott every day like
that would help me.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
I don't need OCD about it.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
It's perfect, perfect, perfect, I'll take it. I'll take it
all right, very good, Thank you, ma'am, Thank you, Boston.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
So she sort of brings up another perspective, which is
where it's as if a domino effect is perceived right
where death could happen if something on the surface that
seems very unrelated.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Right.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
There was a DM that said when they were growing up,
if they didn't open the microwave before it beeped, their
whole family would die. Oh god, that was what the
moment they realized they had obsessive compulsive disas.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Wait, so if they didn't open them, like if they
got down to one, if they didn't open it, the
microwave would beep and the whole family would die.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Correct, Okay, okay, let's not do that. No, no, I'm.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Saying, but like that, they know, but they that person
knows rationally that's not going to happen, but they can't
they can't help that.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, I'm not mocking that.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
So that's sort of what the caller was saying. With
things affecting others going to lead to them dying, yeah, pets.
But then at the same time, we're working with people
sharing stories similar to the one you first read.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well, she said it got worse when they died.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
And this was another DM. I was the same way
as Elliott's person. I would hyperventilate and have to leave
work to go check on my dad because he was
older and had diabetes. So do you see how there's
kind of two lanes. It's event diagram. I'm sure there's
a shared space. Sure, but it does seem like we're
(11:59):
getting you get both from Yeah, sure, Wow, I.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Go months I don't talk to my mom.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, but doesn't your sister talk to her quite a bit?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
So if if I bet yourself.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
It's something happened.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, but I don't have to leave work and be like, well,
I haven't heard from my mom.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Hold on, I just have to update the people here.
It was about nine minutes before he made it about himself.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
No, I just I can't imagine that. I can't live
in that world, but I do understand it.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Hi, elliot in the morning, is there an understanding and understand?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Hello?
Speaker 7 (12:44):
Hey, how's it going?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah? Hi? Who's this?
Speaker 7 (12:47):
This is Mackenzie.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
How are you guys?
Speaker 7 (12:48):
Why Stacy, how you're doing so?
Speaker 8 (12:51):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Is that part of your thing? You have to ask
me the same question twice? Yes?
Speaker 7 (12:58):
So No, I think it's also not only OCD, but
like severe anxiety issues as well, Like I have suffered
from them for almost my whole life, and my sisters
and I do the same thing with my mom that
if none of us hear from her, we'll go over
and we all have to see a house and we'll
go in sort of like sorceraw who has to go
(13:20):
over But also like my husband and I will text
each other in the morning even though we see each other.
If you don't hear from each other throughout the day,
you know, we'll call and be.
Speaker 6 (13:29):
Like, hey, you know what's going on?
Speaker 7 (13:31):
Is everything all right? Son?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
But like, can I ask a question without making this
about myself? Like but but plenty, ma'am, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
No, but plenty plenty of people do that.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Like I'll send Jackie a note before she wakes up,
and it's not like I'm but not because of like
she dead.
Speaker 9 (13:51):
Yeah, but if you didn't hear from her for a
few hours, wouldn't panic, No, you wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
No, I would just think she's busy.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
If I didn't hear from jack a couple hours, no,
I'd be like, okay, wouldn't well, But.
Speaker 7 (14:04):
Like don't you Like if I don't hear from my husband,
I'm like, oh, did he get in an accident? Did
like something happen or you know, like my my mind,
there's in my alphabet of my head to go from
A to Z. There are no other letters.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah to be Oh she's busy, Yeah, okay, I'm with her.
Can you slip out if you don't hear from Scott in.
Speaker 9 (14:23):
The morning, especially with Marley too. If I if I
don't hear for she checks in quite a bit. If
I don't hear from her, I start to freak out.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Do you really? Yes, this may be you.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
In fact, when we were on vacation over the summer.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Here we go, No, go ahead, No, I'm saying, here
we go, like I'm me.
Speaker 9 (14:41):
In and you know, follow her on life through sixty
I could see she was at my.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Stop doing that.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I could see she was at her.
Speaker 9 (14:48):
Apartment, but she was not responding to text and not
picking up the phone. We called Savannah police and had
a welfare check on her.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Wow, this is so much better than Diane. Was she
like in the shower and didn't pick sleeping heavy?
Speaker 7 (15:08):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, all right, that's cool.
Speaker 9 (15:10):
But meanwhile I'm I'm practically on the phone with the
airlines getting ready to come home because she's asleep and
saying like, okay, where where would we fly into? Where
can where can we get closest to Savannah? Well, I
mean there is an airport there, but the yeah, because
she wasn't like repeatedly repeated, I can't even tell you
how many times I texted her, tried calling her. It
goes straight to voicemail. I was panting, I'm like, this
(15:32):
is not this is not like her. What's happening? What's happening?
And the we called?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Did the police go over there?
Speaker 9 (15:39):
Well, first we called the front desk at the apartment
building and they said, we can't go in there. I'll
go knock on the door for her, right, but we
can't go in legally, we can't go in. So they
knocked on the door, no response. So they called us back,
So we called the called.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
We called, what police do?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
She woke up to a deputy at her door, mat Ram, what.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Was there still a door? Yes? Damn if I like
into the apartment.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
She woke up like, I can see with fine mine,
I can see where the boys are. If they don't,
I just assume either Ei're ignoring me, be hungover or something. Yeah,
I'd have to go a long while before I do.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I'd start calling.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
And that was the day we got a welfare check.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
You see the difference, though, Hey, thank you, ma'am. Feel
better about yourself.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
You said that, you said that you have a system
where she's checking in quite a bit These people are
developing these fears after somebody or something.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Nobody close to them have died.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
They don't have these existing check ins multiple times a
day with these family members. They just need to now
start checking in with them. It's not born out of
oh we always.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Always did this.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Therefore, right now respond because yeah, no, exactly exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Damn was she angry with you?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
No, we were angry.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Why were you angry? She would because she was asleep.
Speaker 9 (17:06):
Okay, it was later in the day and she didn't
have a class that day and she didn't have to
work till later.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Perfect, So that's why.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I'm sleeping now. Yeah, you know what, My back's gonna hurt.
It's three pm, but I ain't up yet.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
It's like you do sleep hard.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Where am I going? Line seven?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Hi?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Elliott in the morning.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Hey, hey who Yeah, By the way, can I make
it like one of my kids slept through a class
this week? I'm gonna put you in charge of tracking
them totally.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I'm sorry? Who's this? Yes? What can I do for you?
Speaker 8 (17:45):
So it wasn't death that started that for me. It
was the birth, when my oldest child was born. Your
new mom, you know you're scared of everything already because
you know you have to now.
Speaker 6 (17:56):
Something you're so responsible for.
Speaker 8 (17:58):
And like I can remember driving down the road in
a car, like swerving in my lane and correcting itself,
but it started that whole like running mind panic, Like
oh my.
Speaker 6 (18:10):
Gosh, where if that car had run into us and
killed us? What if it had killed him and not me?
Speaker 1 (18:15):
That's interesting spin and I and I can appreciate it.
Where when if you use the original case, it's somebody
that died and it triggered this whole thing of like,
I can't let this happen to anybody else, but it's
it's it's essentially the same thing. It's somebody's born and
I can't let anything happen.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
That makes total sense.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
I mean, if you have OCD, that makes total sense
to me, totally.
Speaker 8 (18:38):
I mean it would it would be so bad that
I would end up having to pull over on the
side of the road because it was happened to panic
attack and I couldn't breathe in the bar anymore. And
then you know, I have to take I have to
take a minute, and it just would be a lot, because.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Hey, do you still how old is how old is that?
How old is that?
Speaker 8 (18:56):
Kid, he's twenty eight now sitting an arm ten years.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Do you still go the way? How did you deal
with him in the army?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Going away?
Speaker 8 (19:09):
So that was difficult to begin with, but I had
I was a police officer for many years, so I
couldn't really. He's like, don't be a hypocrite, right, yeah, no, no, I.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Get that, But I'm just thinking of the like during
boot camp, that's six weeks.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
You got no communication, deployments. It's not like there's any
kind of schedule.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I just feel like that would get you'd be on
the side of the road huffing and puffin every day.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
But you know what happens.
Speaker 8 (19:38):
You have a second baby, okay, and so now your
mind has to go.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
The younger one says, thanks, all right, very good, very good.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Thank you, ma'am.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
Yes, Tyler from a DIA. I listen to you guys
every morning. It's part of my routine because my mom
works in Annapolis and my dad lives and works in Fredericksburg.
So if you guys talk about a car crash in
those areas, I call them both.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
No.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
That that is no, that's good, that's definitely. That's o.
CD one hundred percent. But I like that they're listening
to us to make that determination. So everyone's ritual it.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, I'm not calling you or texting you every day.
But now all I'm going to think of is if
there's an accident in Annapolis, I know what this person
it's going to freak out, well, not freak out.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I don't like saying that, Diane, they're going to call.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
But now another listener says, my cat, mom, and dog
all die within two months. Suddenly I couldn't leave the house.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I hope the reception was good in there. Yeah, no kidding,
I hope you got strong WiFi. Listen on the app.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
They actually could not look at their phone. Why oh,
because of what's learning?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Bad news?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Oh then you know what, I'll send you a clock
radio gotta listen.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Daypoint. That medication did help them.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I would have met Yeah, I mean you would have to.
You would have to line one Hi elliot in the morning?
Is this?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (21:14):
Hi?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Who's this?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Hi?
Speaker 10 (21:17):
I am a psychologist and I also had.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
OCD Ooh how do you do that?
Speaker 7 (21:24):
Take medication? Do therapy?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Oh? Wow? So like are you like?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
But you have to go see somebody else, right, it's
not like doctor heal by herself, right, you're like the
divers marriage counselor.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Correct.
Speaker 11 (21:38):
But yeah, I had it as a young a kid
and a teen, and through that therapy and prozac really
managed it much better to where I wouldn't meet criteria
for it.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Now, I got you, I understand.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
But do you see that a lot like as a
therapist or it's like whatever you are the where it is? No, No,
I'm sure you see a lot of OCD, but where
there's a death and that their rituals become related to
doing everything to try to make sure that loved ones
are alive.
Speaker 10 (22:11):
Yeah, so that can be so a traumatic event such
as that, or even birth, as that woman was discussing,
Just a stressor can sort of uncover something. So I
imagine some.
Speaker 11 (22:24):
Of these folks may have had just baseline anxiety and
then experiencing a stressor like those things sure sort.
Speaker 6 (22:31):
Of just uncovers this disorder.
Speaker 10 (22:33):
So they may have a sort of free disposition for it.
But really only the stressor is what uncovered it.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Gotcha, gotcha? Interesting? All right? Very yeah, very good. Yeah,
thank you, ma'am, thank you. Wow.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Everyone has a story, including the therapist.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I like hearing that that.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
The therapists need therapy too, not.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
That they well, yes, that that well, that they're that
they're getting it, no, but that they're flawed.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Also, of course, hi Ellie in the morning, Hey.
Speaker 6 (23:06):
I've got it. Uh, at least my therapist thinks I
had it. And my son, my son year old has it.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Wait, you're your seven year old has it?
Speaker 6 (23:15):
Yeah, So for him and me, it leans more on
the obsessive part, where it's sort of like the intrusive thoughts,
like the stuff they're talking about right with, you know,
fearing the worst.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (23:27):
And but for him it's sort of the thing like
when he I've yanked out three of his teeth that
are weakly because he's at like, you know, two o'clock
in the morning because he can't sleep because he's afraid
he's gonna swallow him. So we're we're looking at medication.
But I'll say this conversation is take an interesting turn
because I the reason I don't think I have it
(23:50):
anymore is because I went I lost a child, and
now that I've lived through the worst thing, I don't
like fixed some of that wiring in my brain or
rewired something. What's going through that trauma to be like, oh,
well I've already been through that and I'm still here.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
You know what?
Speaker 6 (24:11):
What what what's going to happen now?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
You can't?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
You know, you're right.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
That's fascinating to me because you're right. What else is
going to get handed to you? That's worse than that?
Absolutely nothing?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Right?
Speaker 6 (24:23):
And I mean I definitely still have intrud the thoughts,
but nothing like there's something about it now that does
not spiral anymore. And I don't know it's no. I
still have anxiety and the punk other issues, but no,
you know.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
What, but that is that makes total again just as
an outsider, that.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Makes total sense. That makes total sense to me.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
Yeah, yeah, so interesting. One way to fix it everyone, Okay,
I'm allowed to.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Joke about it, yes, exactly exactly, so like make sure
you keep listening, all right, very good, very good.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Center. I don't know, maybe that's part of it. Maybe
that's part of it. Oh that's right. You still need
the ritual of it. Oh you don't want him, no,
just teetering, teetering a little bit
Yesterday, we were having a whole conversation about what about
what scares people and not like phobias, like I'm afraid.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Of snakes or sharks or clowns or something like that.
And remember number.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
The number one answer by like seventy percent of people
was like government corruption.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
There was becoming disabled.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I can't remember what else was on the list, but
there was like a whole string of things on the.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
List, pollution, pollution.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
World War III, RUSS ears and nuclear attacks, the drought anyway.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Anyway, one of the things that was on there was.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
The fear or one of the things that people are
scared of is someone that they love or someone very
close to them dying more so than themselves, somebody close
to them dying. So somebody sent me something yesterday, and listen,
I don't I don't don't have OCD, so I didn't
(01:01):
put two and two together. But this thing is about
I'll just read it you ready. My cat died in
twenty thirteen. Fine, everyone everyone said that I always treated
my cat like it was one of my children. The
cat got so sick, so suddenly it freaked me out
(01:21):
pretty badly. That's fine. People lose pets. I understand that.
Then my dad died out of nowhere in twenty eighteen.
I just want I just wanted to die to be
with him. He was my best friend. I also understand
that feeling. Of course, now I'm afraid I'll lose anyone
(01:44):
at any time. I have OCD, and all of my
rituals are focused around keeping my mom, my sister, my spouse,
my current cats, and everybody that I love alive. I
text my mom constantly, and if she doesn't answer for
a few hours, I panic. I started crying and hyperventilating.
(02:11):
If I don't get her usual I'm ok morning text
to the point where I'm ready to drive to her apartment,
and in my head, I am prepared that.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I will see her dead body. Got is that common
for somebody? For two things?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Number one for somebody with OCD, right, and OCD could
be everything. But if you are OCD and you lose
a loved one, if I mean, listen, we learned that yesterday.
That's one of the top ten fears or or things
that most people are afraid of, is losing someone someone
near them dying.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
If you have OCD, does that.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
And I don't mean this, this is gonna come out
bad and I don't mean it that way. Does that
spin you into like a badspiral?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Well, Diane, no.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
But you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I do know what you mean.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Yeah, it must Now will it automatically? I'm not saying that,
but it's cairly it can.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And I would assume. I would assume, and again I
don't have a CHRISTI will you do me a favor?
Will you find me a couple of OCD ers. I
would assume that there are people who have OCD and
that's already their thing.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, where it's.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Like I have to hear from my mom, my dad,
my wife, my husband, my kid, whatever it is, every
day at whatever. And if I don't hear from them
by eight, eight thirty nine, whatever everybody's routine is, I
(03:49):
am not good for the rest of the day. I
would assume that those people already exist. If that's not
your what did they call it, ritual?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Whatever? But then somebody does die? Does that? Does that
spin you?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Or are you aware from talking to people maybe being
in support groups? Are you not suffering from this element yet?
But but you're going to worry about this happening?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Oh, where people have said, oh, this is common get ready.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
It's almost like this disorder complicates everything seriously whenever LCD
comes up. You remember a few months ago we were
just talking about like cooking, like recipes.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Oh, they got to keep starting everything over.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Oh that was a pain. Yeah that was this. Yeah,
this would be bad.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Oh. I think Jackie and I knew somebody and I
can't remember who it was, but they were like this,
don't I don't maybe it was OCD. I have no idea,
but like if like the whole family did I don't know,
if it was like wordle or some game with streaks,
and if somebody in the family didn't post their score
(05:08):
or whatever it was, oh, well they must be dead, right,
it'd be like no, or like maybe they just woke
up late or they just didn't do it today or whatever.
But in their mind it was something bad. I don't
know if it sprung to death, but it was something bad.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Yeah, there's catastrophizing and then there's these examples.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yes, m M, how do you manage that the story
you read gummies, I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
No, I don't know, Like, I don't know how you don't.
I don't know how anybody would do that. Like I'm
I don't have OCD, Thank god. I don't know how
you would manage any of it. Wow, I wouldn't be
able to manage the light on, light off, light on,
light off, light on light that's a different light off.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, it's completely different. But that's also an OCD.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
And he's also speaking from the perspective of partner that
he couldn't manage it as someone in their life.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Oh no, no, no, oh my god, Jackie Jesus Christ,
let's go. Oh yeah, no, I would not be I'm
not cut out for that. And listen, I'm sure I
do things that annoy people, but not like that.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
It would probably be your why are we starting the
meal over?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Because I didn't. I can't follow the recipe. That's that's it. Off. Yeah,
I would not be good in that environment. Where am
I going? Line? Fo Hi Ellie of the morning.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Hey, I have similar issues with OCD, not focused around
keeping everybody safe and alive, and it did get significantly
worse after I had a string of family death and
then a string of two of my dogs dying unexpectedly
(07:05):
that really kind of ramped everything up. So it's it's
very much like it's not just like switching a light
on and off. It's the thought process that your brain
leads you down where it's like, Okay, if I don't
make sure that this light is on and off and
I have to test it multiple times, then there's going
to be an electrical fire and my house is going
(07:25):
to burn down, and my husband's going to die and
all my dogs are going to die. So OCD kind
of leads your brain down that path of everything that
could go wrong. If you're not hyper vigilant about checking
on your surroundings constantly, checking in on your family constantly,
you just go to this place, do.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
You check in? Can I can? I? Can I have? Where?
Where do you live?
Speaker 5 (07:49):
So I right now I live about forty five minutes
outside of Boston.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Okay, where do where does your like your family live?
Speaker 5 (07:58):
So all of our family is back in the DFD area.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
So does that does that like if you don't hear
from like, I know you said there was a string
of family deaths.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I don't know who died. But if you.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
If you like, if you don't, if you like, if
if you don't hear from your dad in the morning, like,
it's not like you could just get in the car
and drive over like that you're in Boston.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Yeah, So luckily I went through treatment after it kind
of came to a head and I ended up having
to quit a previous job and everything. So luckily, now
I'm doing better, and you know, I went on medication
for a while, I went through you know, therapy for
a while. So now I have the ability to kind
(08:42):
of try to talk myself out of that thought. But yeah,
if it, you know, if it's really bad on a
particular day for whatever reason, it just I have to
very consciously be aware of my actions to not kind
of overreact to that thought. But yeah, I'll just like
(09:03):
kind of send a text message or a call, you know,
and just like be very like glued to my phone
for a response.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Right.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
But it's been it's been better with you know, going
through treatment, getting on medication, and doing those in conjunction
to giving yourself the tools to be able to walk
yourself down from that ledge. Because previously, when it was
really bad, luckily I still lived in Virginia, I would
absolutely just randomly show up at people's places, right.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
And I get Yeah, I get it. I don't get it,
but I get it, you know what I mean, Like
I understand No, like I would never get that, but
I understand for someone like you that you would.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I get that, I get.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
That, I get yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
Yeah, it's hard to fully understand unless like you're living
under this, like fear in this like feeling so real
to you, like I've I've had to leave my my
job early to go back home too, because I didn't
check the front door enough. And I'm like, Okay, if
(10:13):
you know the door is going to be open, my
dogs are going to open it. They're going to run
into the roads, they're going to get hit. So I've
had to leave my job before just to go home
to double check doors, double check the oven, like all
these types of things.
Speaker 6 (10:26):
So it's it's.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Like I have to listen to Elliott every day like
that would help me.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
I don't need OCD about it.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
It's perfect, perfect, perfect, I'll take it. I'll take it
all right, very good, Thank you, ma'am, Thank you, Boston.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
So she sort of brings up another perspective, which is
where it's as if a domino effect is perceived right
where death could happen if something on the surface that
seems very unrelated.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Right.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
There was a DM that said when they were growing up,
if they didn't open the microwave before it beeped, their
whole family would die. Oh god, that was what the
moment they realized they had obsessive compulsive disas.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Wait, so if they didn't open them, like if they
got down to one, if they didn't open it, the
microwave would beep and the whole family would die.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Correct, Okay, okay, let's not do that. No, no, I'm.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Saying, but like that, they know, but they that person
knows rationally that's not going to happen, but they can't
they can't help that.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, I'm not mocking that.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
So that's sort of what the caller was saying. With
things affecting others going to lead to them dying, yeah, pets.
But then at the same time, we're working with people
sharing stories similar to the one you first read.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well, she said it got worse when they died.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
And this was another DM. I was the same way
as Elliott's person. I would hyperventilate and have to leave
work to go check on my dad because he was
older and had diabetes. So do you see how there's
kind of two lanes. It's event diagram. I'm sure there's
a shared space. Sure, but it does seem like we're
(11:59):
getting you get both from Yeah, sure, Wow, I.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Go months I don't talk to my mom.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, but doesn't your sister talk to her quite a bit?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
So if if I bet yourself.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
It's something happened.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, but I don't have to leave work and be like, well,
I haven't heard from my mom.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Hold on, I just have to update the people here.
It was about nine minutes before he made it about himself.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
No, I just I can't imagine that. I can't live
in that world, but I do understand it.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Hi, elliot in the morning, is there an understanding and understand?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Hello?
Speaker 7 (12:44):
Hey, how's it going?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah? Hi? Who's this?
Speaker 7 (12:47):
This is Mackenzie.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
How are you guys?
Speaker 7 (12:48):
Why Stacy, how you're doing so?
Speaker 8 (12:51):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Is that part of your thing? You have to ask
me the same question twice? Yes?
Speaker 7 (12:58):
So No, I think it's also not only OCD, but
like severe anxiety issues as well, Like I have suffered
from them for almost my whole life, and my sisters
and I do the same thing with my mom that
if none of us hear from her, we'll go over
and we all have to see a house and we'll
go in sort of like sorceraw who has to go
(13:20):
over But also like my husband and I will text
each other in the morning even though we see each other.
If you don't hear from each other throughout the day,
you know, we'll call and be.
Speaker 6 (13:29):
Like, hey, you know what's going on?
Speaker 7 (13:31):
Is everything all right? Son?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
But like, can I ask a question without making this
about myself? Like but but plenty, ma'am, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
No, but plenty plenty of people do that.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Like I'll send Jackie a note before she wakes up,
and it's not like I'm but not because of like
she dead.
Speaker 9 (13:51):
Yeah, but if you didn't hear from her for a
few hours, wouldn't panic, No, you wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
No, I would just think she's busy.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
If I didn't hear from jack a couple hours, no,
I'd be like, okay, wouldn't well, But.
Speaker 7 (14:04):
Like don't you Like if I don't hear from my husband,
I'm like, oh, did he get in an accident? Did
like something happen or you know, like my my mind,
there's in my alphabet of my head to go from
A to Z. There are no other letters.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah to be Oh she's busy, Yeah, okay, I'm with her.
Can you slip out if you don't hear from Scott in.
Speaker 9 (14:23):
The morning, especially with Marley too. If I if I
don't hear for she checks in quite a bit. If
I don't hear from her, I start to freak out.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Do you really? Yes, this may be you.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
In fact, when we were on vacation over the summer.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Here we go, No, go ahead, No, I'm saying, here
we go, like I'm me.
Speaker 9 (14:41):
In and you know, follow her on life through sixty
I could see she was at my.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Stop doing that.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I could see she was at her.
Speaker 9 (14:48):
Apartment, but she was not responding to text and not
picking up the phone. We called Savannah police and had
a welfare check on her.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Wow, this is so much better than Diane. Was she
like in the shower and didn't pick sleeping heavy?
Speaker 7 (15:08):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, all right, that's cool.
Speaker 9 (15:10):
But meanwhile I'm I'm practically on the phone with the
airlines getting ready to come home because she's asleep and
saying like, okay, where where would we fly into? Where
can where can we get closest to Savannah? Well, I
mean there is an airport there, but the yeah, because
she wasn't like repeatedly repeated, I can't even tell you
how many times I texted her, tried calling her. It
goes straight to voicemail. I was panting, I'm like, this
(15:32):
is not this is not like her. What's happening? What's happening?
And the we called?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Did the police go over there?
Speaker 9 (15:39):
Well, first we called the front desk at the apartment
building and they said, we can't go in there. I'll
go knock on the door for her, right, but we
can't go in legally, we can't go in. So they
knocked on the door, no response. So they called us back,
So we called the called.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
We called, what police do?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
She woke up to a deputy at her door, mat Ram, what.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Was there still a door? Yes? Damn if I like
into the apartment.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
She woke up like, I can see with fine mine,
I can see where the boys are. If they don't,
I just assume either Ei're ignoring me, be hungover or something. Yeah,
I'd have to go a long while before I do.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I'd start calling.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
And that was the day we got a welfare check.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
You see the difference, though, Hey, thank you, ma'am. Feel
better about yourself.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
You said that, you said that you have a system
where she's checking in quite a bit These people are
developing these fears after somebody or something.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Nobody close to them have died.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
They don't have these existing check ins multiple times a
day with these family members. They just need to now
start checking in with them. It's not born out of
oh we always.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Always did this.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Therefore, right now respond because yeah, no, exactly exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Damn was she angry with you?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
No, we were angry.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Why were you angry? She would because she was asleep.
Speaker 9 (17:06):
Okay, it was later in the day and she didn't
have a class that day and she didn't have to
work till later.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Perfect, So that's why.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I'm sleeping now. Yeah, you know what, My back's gonna hurt.
It's three pm, but I ain't up yet.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
It's like you do sleep hard.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Where am I going? Line seven?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Hi?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Elliott in the morning.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Hey, hey who Yeah, By the way, can I make
it like one of my kids slept through a class
this week? I'm gonna put you in charge of tracking
them totally.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I'm sorry? Who's this? Yes? What can I do for you?
Speaker 8 (17:45):
So it wasn't death that started that for me. It
was the birth, when my oldest child was born. Your
new mom, you know you're scared of everything already because
you know you have to now.
Speaker 6 (17:56):
Something you're so responsible for.
Speaker 8 (17:58):
And like I can remember driving down the road in
a car, like swerving in my lane and correcting itself,
but it started that whole like running mind panic, Like
oh my.
Speaker 6 (18:10):
Gosh, where if that car had run into us and
killed us? What if it had killed him and not me?
Speaker 1 (18:15):
That's interesting spin and I and I can appreciate it.
Where when if you use the original case, it's somebody
that died and it triggered this whole thing of like,
I can't let this happen to anybody else, but it's
it's it's essentially the same thing. It's somebody's born and
I can't let anything happen.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
That makes total sense.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
I mean, if you have OCD, that makes total sense
to me, totally.
Speaker 8 (18:38):
I mean it would it would be so bad that
I would end up having to pull over on the
side of the road because it was happened to panic
attack and I couldn't breathe in the bar anymore. And
then you know, I have to take I have to
take a minute, and it just would be a lot, because.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Hey, do you still how old is how old is that?
How old is that?
Speaker 8 (18:56):
Kid, he's twenty eight now sitting an arm ten years.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Do you still go the way? How did you deal
with him in the army?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Going away?
Speaker 8 (19:09):
So that was difficult to begin with, but I had
I was a police officer for many years, so I
couldn't really. He's like, don't be a hypocrite, right, yeah, no, no, I.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Get that, But I'm just thinking of the like during
boot camp, that's six weeks.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
You got no communication, deployments. It's not like there's any
kind of schedule.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I just feel like that would get you'd be on
the side of the road huffing and puffin every day.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
But you know what happens.
Speaker 8 (19:38):
You have a second baby, okay, and so now your
mind has to go.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
The younger one says, thanks, all right, very good, very good.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Thank you, ma'am.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
Yes, Tyler from a DIA. I listen to you guys
every morning. It's part of my routine because my mom
works in Annapolis and my dad lives and works in Fredericksburg.
So if you guys talk about a car crash in
those areas, I call them both.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
No.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
That that is no, that's good, that's definitely. That's o.
CD one hundred percent. But I like that they're listening
to us to make that determination. So everyone's ritual it.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, I'm not calling you or texting you every day.
But now all I'm going to think of is if
there's an accident in Annapolis, I know what this person
it's going to freak out, well, not freak out.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I don't like saying that, Diane, they're going to call.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
But now another listener says, my cat, mom, and dog
all die within two months. Suddenly I couldn't leave the house.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I hope the reception was good in there. Yeah, no kidding,
I hope you got strong WiFi. Listen on the app.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
They actually could not look at their phone. Why oh,
because of what's learning?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Bad news?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Oh then you know what, I'll send you a clock
radio gotta listen.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Daypoint. That medication did help them.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I would have met Yeah, I mean you would have to.
You would have to line one Hi elliot in the morning?
Is this?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (21:14):
Hi?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Who's this?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Hi?
Speaker 10 (21:17):
I am a psychologist and I also had.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
OCD Ooh how do you do that?
Speaker 7 (21:24):
Take medication? Do therapy?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Oh? Wow? So like are you like?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
But you have to go see somebody else, right, it's
not like doctor heal by herself, right, you're like the
divers marriage counselor.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Correct.
Speaker 11 (21:38):
But yeah, I had it as a young a kid
and a teen, and through that therapy and prozac really
managed it much better to where I wouldn't meet criteria
for it.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Now, I got you, I understand.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
But do you see that a lot like as a
therapist or it's like whatever you are the where it is? No, No,
I'm sure you see a lot of OCD, but where
there's a death and that their rituals become related to
doing everything to try to make sure that loved ones
are alive.
Speaker 10 (22:11):
Yeah, so that can be so a traumatic event such
as that, or even birth, as that woman was discussing,
Just a stressor can sort of uncover something. So I
imagine some.
Speaker 11 (22:24):
Of these folks may have had just baseline anxiety and
then experiencing a stressor like those things sure sort.
Speaker 6 (22:31):
Of just uncovers this disorder.
Speaker 10 (22:33):
So they may have a sort of free disposition for it.
But really only the stressor is what uncovered it.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Gotcha, gotcha? Interesting? All right? Very yeah, very good. Yeah,
thank you, ma'am, thank you. Wow.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Everyone has a story, including the therapist.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I like hearing that that.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
The therapists need therapy too, not.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
That they well, yes, that that well, that they're that
they're getting it, no, but that they're flawed.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Also, of course, hi Ellie in the morning, Hey.
Speaker 6 (23:06):
I've got it. Uh, at least my therapist thinks I
had it. And my son, my son year old has it.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Wait, you're your seven year old has it?
Speaker 6 (23:15):
Yeah, So for him and me, it leans more on
the obsessive part, where it's sort of like the intrusive thoughts,
like the stuff they're talking about right with, you know,
fearing the worst.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (23:27):
And but for him it's sort of the thing like
when he I've yanked out three of his teeth that
are weakly because he's at like, you know, two o'clock
in the morning because he can't sleep because he's afraid
he's gonna swallow him. So we're we're looking at medication.
But I'll say this conversation is take an interesting turn
because I the reason I don't think I have it
(23:50):
anymore is because I went I lost a child, and
now that I've lived through the worst thing, I don't
like fixed some of that wiring in my brain or
rewired something. What's going through that trauma to be like, oh,
well I've already been through that and I'm still here.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
You know what?
Speaker 6 (24:11):
What what what's going to happen now?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
You can't?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
You know, you're right.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
That's fascinating to me because you're right. What else is
going to get handed to you? That's worse than that?
Absolutely nothing?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Right?
Speaker 6 (24:23):
And I mean I definitely still have intrud the thoughts,
but nothing like there's something about it now that does
not spiral anymore. And I don't know it's no. I
still have anxiety and the punk other issues, but no,
you know.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
What, but that is that makes total again just as
an outsider, that.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Makes total sense. That makes total sense to me.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
Yeah, yeah, so interesting. One way to fix it everyone, Okay,
I'm allowed to.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Joke about it, yes, exactly exactly, so like make sure
you keep listening, all right, very good, very good.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Center. I don't know, maybe that's part of it. Maybe
that's part of it. Oh that's right. You still need
the ritual of it. Oh you don't want him, no,
just teetering, teetering a little bit
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