The Dutchman (2025) | Amiri Baraka's Explosive Racial Confrontation - Black on Black Cinema | Black Movie Reviews

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Mama, give you a lesson about the villager right now,
you find the last down before me. Change and let's
wrap the chase on it.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
You know.

Speaker 4 (00:20):
Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Black
on Black Cinema. I'm your host, Jay, I'm here with
my co host Micah Hey Terrence's antiar. Okay, all right, guys,
we are back all of us. This is episode two
ninety four, The Dutchman. This is the twenty twenty five
psychological thriller directed by Andre Gaines, starring Andre Holland, Kate Mara,

(00:46):
Stephen McKinley, Henderson, Zazzi Beats, and Elvis Hodge. The logline
here is a successful black businessman, haunted by his crumbling
marriage and identity crisis, is drawn into a sexualized game
of cat and mouse with a mysterious white woman on
a subway that leads to a violent conclusion. So this

(01:07):
is based somewhat on the play The Dutchman from the
nineteen sixties, and there was also a movie in the
nineteen sixties.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Of the same title.

Speaker 4 (01:18):
So I'll go first because none of us have seen
this movie. Look, I thought everyone was great in this.
I am shocked that I hadn't heard of this movie,
which was really fucking weird. I thought Andre Holland was great,
as he always is, to be honest, I've never seen
him bad in anything. Kate Marraw was very good. I

(01:39):
believe Micah. You're going to refer to her as being
effective in her role, which is correct. She made you
feel exactly how she was meant to. Stephen McKinley Henderson
has never bad in anything as far as I can.
As far as I'm concerned, this is no exception of that.
Zazzi Beats is not in the movie a lot, but
I thought she was. She was pretty good. And then

(02:00):
Elvis Hodges in it just a little bit, which I
thought he was fine. This is a because I didn't know.
I didn't I wasn't aware of the play or sort
of any of the history of this. This is way
more in your face black of a movie than in
like message wise then I thought it was going in.
I thought this was going to be more of a

(02:20):
like generic look out for that white woman type story,
but it wasn't, which I actually appreciated. But yeah, I
really liked it. I would highly recommend it. So there's
a lot more there than just like white woman is
the devil, so that message is clear. But yeah, I
enjoyed it quite a lot. I will go to Tiara.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
I knew it. I just knew. I knew you were
coming this way.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yeah, I didn't know anything about about this movie. I
didn't know it was a play. I didn't know anything.
In fact, actually the I think it was the first
scene with the therapy stuff I was I was watching,
I was like, why does this feel like a play?
I feel like I'm watching like a stage play, and
lo and behold because it is. Yeah, I thought everyone

(03:07):
was great. I would say I would agree with Mica
that Kate Maarra does exactly what she's supposed to be doing,
almost a little too well. But I thought Andre Holland
I feel like I haven't seen him in anything in
a long time. I feel like the last thing I

(03:27):
saw him in was.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
We did a movie.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
We did a movie with him. It's like Reasonable Forgiveness
or something like that a couple of months ago.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Okay, this is pretty much like a better version of Obsession,
which I think you guys did.

Speaker 5 (03:48):
It's slightly that, just a little bit.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
But yeah, thoroughly enjoyed it. Yeah. I also hadn't, like
I said, hadn't heard anything about it, but yeah, great belly,
all right, uh.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
Turn, so I will go to you.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Well, it's fine.

Speaker 6 (04:17):
Everybody was fine, Like you said the first thing you said,
everybody was great in it. The movie itself, I think
it suffers from the fact that if you don't if
you don't know the play, you don't know the source material,
and it kind of suffers because I'm like, what the
fuck is Okay, we understand that You're like, I'm not

(04:37):
black enough for black people, I'm not white enough for
white folks kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
He kind of says.

Speaker 6 (04:41):
I think he says that in the beginning of the
movie or something like that. Yeah, imight have made that up.
But other than that, I'm like, I don't. To me,
the message was like, don't trust these white women. That's
what I got completely, That's it. I didn't see the
other the messaging until I went back to read up
on the play, because once I finished the movie, I'm like,

(05:04):
what the fuck was that? And then I watched and
then I went to to look at what the play
was about, and I'm like, oh, okay, this makes more
sense now. It's an adaptation in the In the play,
the characters are very different and it's only it only
takes place on the train station in the train. Everybody
was fine, it was shot competently, but like, I didn't

(05:24):
get it. I mean I got it, but didn't. It
kind of was all over the place, and I don't
think it got it's message across to me. I'm honestly,
you know, I would actually look up what the play
was first before watching this, because it doesn't really make
a lot of sense without without the prior.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Knowledge of the play. Okay, Mike, get your thoughts. Uh yeah,
look I go uh everything that everyone has said, I
think I think the biggest one of the biggest issues
for me is that while I enjoy Andre Holland in
everything he's in, I think he's a little too old

(06:02):
for this role. I think this role and even the play,
you know, the play, the character is much younger. And yeah,
like Andre Holland is like in his mid forties, right,
and they they try their best to kind of adapt
this story to fit andre Holland as a person. But

(06:26):
I think this would be a little more effective if
this character was like fifteen years younger at least, right
to be like fresh out of college and you know,
like a wonderkin, right, but trapped in this like world
where like he you know, is he's not black enough

(06:51):
but too black, right, Like I believe it in a
younger character.

Speaker 6 (06:56):
Yeah, I didn't believe that.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
A man in his man in his mid forties. You know,
you are firmly like I know what these people are.
I know what I am, And you know they try
to you know, they try to change the story to
make it so that it's like, oh, well, you know,
the infidelity is the reason why he's he's kind of

(07:23):
shaken and stuff like that. But no, I don't think
you need to do all that. I think you need to. Yeah,
I just think Andre Holland was miscast, but he was.
It's a double edged sword because like he's really really good.
But if you were to give me somebody like, what's
the dude that that everyone's that's he says he's not

(07:44):
going to be black panther, but like he's going to
be black was Yeah, if you get him to do this,
I think I think this movie is a little more effective.
And if you don't know the source material, like I
didn't know the source material, I was texting J I
was watching. I was like, why is everybody talking like

(08:05):
their offences?

Speaker 7 (08:06):
He was like, yeah, okay, well there's like a lot
of soliloquies and yeah, a lot of like I'm just
waiting for a spotlight, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
And while I I could appreciate that, but but you
can tell that this was like tr she didn't know
anything about it, but she's like, it feels like a play.
The problem is it feels like a short play, like
a very short play, very short, and they have to
extend it like this movie was like Riching for ninety minutes, right,

(08:41):
And a lot of that is a lot of that
is I don't want to say paanning because I didn't
feel like I wasn't bored with it. But at the
same time, like the beats, the stuff that it really

(09:02):
wants to talk about, it's kind of interspersed between things
to kind of pad it out, and the things that
patted it out infuriated me, like like right back here,
right back here on the back and the neck, like
that's when that shit got tense anytime. Man. Kate marrale
boy I was look, I had a little fun with

(09:23):
her last weekend. Our preview episode, and she was like, oh,
all right, bet you're gonna call me a four. Bet
I'm gonna piss you off. And I got a little
shit like I got mad, bro, I got I was
I was heated, man, I was heated.

Speaker 6 (09:38):
Jesus, I should pist turns off in fifteen minutes because
I was tight.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
I'm like every first I feel like, I felt like
every time she had a scene, like, I just felt
myself on, Like, Jesus, what the fuck? Why would you
say something like that?

Speaker 2 (09:57):
That's horrible?

Speaker 1 (09:59):
You know, that's interesting thought Micah of like Andree Holland
being a bit too old for this role, I didn't
even think of it that way. I think someone probably
in their thirties probably would have been a good, a
good person in this in this role, particularly because it
feels like almost like a coming of age story for

(10:21):
for a black man in this in this movie. And
you're right like at fort and with forties, you're like,
you're like you like.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
People are established.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
I would hope, so I would hope you were established.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Like like you could even keep them, you could even
keep the marriage angle, right, like it even the marriage
angle works better for a younger person, right.

Speaker 4 (10:44):
I would say the marriage angle. I actually agree with
you on the age thing, Like I hadn't thought about
that until you mentioned it. But I think that I
think the marriage part works at at like mid forties
two because that is a time that people are like,
you get a lull in your marriage and they they
fuck up and they do dumb ship right like, like

(11:05):
that's that's that's very much a thing, right because because
they even mentioned about like them holding off and having
kids because of their career, so there's like there's some
like undercurrent of resentment and ship like that. So I
can understand the mid forties aspect for the marriage kind
of falling apart, like just statistically that's that's accurate. But

(11:26):
but I do agree like at forty five, like I
very much know my relationship with white America, Like I
know it very clearly, like, oh, this is why Woe's
gonna come sit close to me.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
I'm gonna get my black I'm gonna get that.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
I'm when I when I when I when I tell
you I had my umar face, I was like I
was like, I was like I would I would be
like I beg a pardon.

Speaker 4 (12:00):
Yeah, it's so Yeah, I do agree the age, because
there needs to be a level of sort of naivete
in that where it's just like, oh, this woman's coming
on to me and like, oh, she legitimately likes me,
where like I'm like, what the fuck is the I mean,
he's like, yeah, what's the scam here? Like like he
immediately thinks it sons and bullshit, where I think a

(12:21):
younger guy might just be like, I mean, i'm hands like,
of course, of course.

Speaker 6 (12:26):
He's right, and she's in her thirties and she's like fifteen.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Years Yeah, yeah, that's the Yeah, that's the dynamic that
you need to have to pull this off.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
But I still I still think it still works with
him at that age because there's a line where he
says like I've never fucked up, and he's like, I've
never fucked up. I'm like a machine. So it felt
like he was having like a mint life crisis. Like
so you have this this attractive white woman in like

(13:00):
really like skippy dressed and.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
Continu Jesus was God damn it.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
She's like she's she's wearing his low cut dresses New
York and he everybody else is wearing like winter clothes
and she's dressed like it's summertime outside, which I thought
was weird, and she's just like hitting on him and
like being really aggressive and he can't say no, and
then that's aided by the infidelity too. So I do
feel like it was believable that you could have this

(13:35):
mid forties man do exactly what he did because he
just he's you know, he was cheated on. And I
had thoughts about that too, because I was like, I
still feel like there should be another ending here, but whatever,
But then he gets some sort of weird validation by
this uh white woman who gave him, who gives him

(13:55):
an apple or whatever.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, yeah, biblical imagery right right behind it.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah, right there, break the cycle in the diagram with arrows.
I'll have one more thing is that I actually felt
like there were parts. Actually I felt like when I
was watching it, I was kind of afraid of being like,
oh is this it is there like nothing else. I'm

(14:32):
not going to see any of the other consequences of
his actions because you know, with Augus character and that
whole event thing, and no, it was. It was filmed
just like how a play would be. You get no
extra context. You just kind of have to take what
you get, I mean, and and I felt like kind
of something from that.

Speaker 4 (14:52):
I mean, it's it's a bottle film, like bottle plus, right,
Like there's there's like just slightly to many people to
be a bottle film, but not that many, right, Like
it's just it's just not that it's not that much
going on. And so yeah, I think if you're looking
forward to be a more not like grand sweeping, but

(15:13):
like just like a regular movie type of like environment,
yeah it does. It feels very small in a lot
of ways. Yeah, it's it's I enjoy the film quite
a bit, but I do think I think Mike's point
about the ages is a really good one actually. All right,
so let's get into it. So the movie kind of
starts out with this idea of Andre Hollins's character Clay.

(15:37):
He's in therapy and you're sort of hearing this voiceover
from his therapist and just about this idea of being
a person of two bodies, right, like kind of like
what society expects of you and who you are as
a black man, right, which again I was like, oh,
this is like, this is an actual movie that's talking

(15:59):
about race, not sort of touching on the peripherals, which
I thought, I found that to be nice. Then we
see a lot of footage of Clay and his wife
played by Zazi Beats what is her name?

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Kya?

Speaker 4 (16:15):
Thank you, and it's just kind of it's almost like
found footage imagery of their relationship, and it looks like
an I'll take from Atlanta, and so you know, they
seem like a happy couple. Geez, so very good here,
more on that later. But then you see them in
therapy and you've come to find out Kaya slept with

(16:37):
somebody else. I don't know how.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Recent they kept a flash yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
Uh see see. I was like, I don't see the
problem probably.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
His Actually I was, I was gonna ask you which
I thought about that little therapy session and their interactions.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
And look, as much as Tarence said that the movie
for him was about stay away from these white women,
I and I definitely got that. I also think the
movie was like go to therapy, nigga. I think that's
a big part of it too, Like talk about your
feelings with you know, more than just you know, the
inside of your own head. I thought this therapy scene

(17:23):
is good. I don't like cheaters, so I immediately hated
Zazi beats his character like off the rip because like
she gets, she gets, she gets a lot of like
she gets a lot of like extra boost because she's
not a piece of shit like hate Mar's character. But
I'm like, you're not a hero either, Like she's like, well,

(17:45):
you weren't talking to me, so I just sucked this
other guy's dick. That's not an excuse, but that's a
wild excuse.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
You need a good therapy before you just fall on
a dick.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Jesus Christ, is that not?

Speaker 4 (18:01):
What with the with the with the with the sex
and the and the heaving and the hoeing right like
like but I'm sorry, I don't like that, Like you
didn't you didn't talk enough, so I just went and
cheated on you. No, no, no, no, no, that'sn't unacceptable.
Go to therapy together then, like get the fuck.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Out of here now.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
After the fact, don't betray me.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, I mean, do I need to say? Boy? What
the this is it? Man? Like we're we're getting a divorce?
Uh No, Nor amount of therapy is gonna nor amount
of therapy is I'm just I guess I'm weird like that,
But no amount of therapy is gonna. It's gonna, you know,
if I can. If I can do it, you can

(18:47):
do it. Like it's I don't, I don't, I don't
get I. I didn't necessarily feel sorry for as he
beats his character, and I didn't really feel like her
character was like you could tell like this character was
not meant to be in the play because like it's
not a very fully fleshed out character. But the therapy, look,

(19:11):
I'm off for therapy. If you want to go to therapy, go,
I think you Most people probably should nowadays. I've only
been once, but it was with my previous engagement, and
you know a lot of says done it.

Speaker 6 (19:28):
They and like, damn near twenty years Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Because because when we will, Oh my god, I was fun.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
I wasn't.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Perfect. I'm the catch guys, uh, but it was. It
was enlightening. It was It was also one of those
things that that you know, hey, this is a red
flag that this probably isn't going to work. But it

(19:59):
was one of those things that I just didn't see,
so maybe I needed to go back, right. But as
far as the scene in this particular movie, look, it
seemed very uh, you know, kind of bog standard as
you know. It felt like every other therapy session that

(20:19):
I've seen in movies. So you know, look, I ain't
got no problem with therapy. Do it. All of you
should do it. Talk to somebody, you know, get a friend.
Is it?

Speaker 1 (20:36):
Is it okay to cheat? If you thought your partner
was about to cheat?

Speaker 2 (20:39):
No, I just know.

Speaker 4 (20:45):
That's some that's some bullshit that you used to justify
you can't you can't fuck somebody else on some minority
report bullshit. I thought it was coming like, no, I
don't know, I got a red ball, so I decided
to jump on some black balls, like no, that's not
how it works.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
I just I just feel like I should ask because
I look, she seemed very convincing and her no, don't
do that. I mean, how mean? I mean, if you
don't talk to me, then why can't I just go
out and find someone who will not only talk to me,
but also you know, has sex with me too? So

(21:26):
all right, that's her logic.

Speaker 4 (21:30):
Look, all right, we're gonna go ahead and put a
big red flag on Tiara's box over there so people know.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
I have another question, if you if your partner cheats, it,
is it okay if you're if your friend. If your
best friend says she got one, you got so you
get one.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Whatever he wants.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yeah, you don't do TIF for tat Like that's that's
a terrible idea.

Speaker 6 (21:58):
Okay, it depends on what happened.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
Nah, I can tell you what to of y'all and
fucking married, get the fuck out, insane.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
I was going, I was going up with the movie said,
I'm not saying these are my beliefs because I don't
like cheaters, because I mean, I feel like this movie
would have been over for me. Actually we're not even
going to therapy. It's like, oh, wow, that's what you did. Well,
that's a rat.

Speaker 4 (22:22):
I wouldn't make it to the Yeah, I wouldn't make
it to the opening credits. Yeah, it'd be like one
of those like Hi, I'm Jay, you're wondering how I
how I got here? I'm newly divorced, like what the
end of the movie credits.

Speaker 6 (22:37):
So that's so that's the line for you, Mike, because
you said, Michael, You've said, like a hundred percent, you
stick things out, like if you're marriage gets tough, you
know you don't want to you don't want to automatically
go for divorce.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
But like cheating is that's it? That's a rat, that's it.
That's the line. That's the line. You were there. I
made a promise to all of y'all that I wouldn't
step out on my wife, and she made it to
me and I would kill all the spiders for her
and all that. Right. That's so, that's that's the that's
the that's the line.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
Is emotional cheating? Does that?

Speaker 3 (23:14):
Is that?

Speaker 4 (23:14):
Does that cross the line?

Speaker 2 (23:17):
First of all? What's emotional cheating?

Speaker 4 (23:19):
Okay? Emotional cheating? Example would be if you found out
your spouse was texting someone and was like talking about
like how unhappy they are in the relationship and how
they're a good person, and like that's the opposite or
whoever you want to fuck.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Whoever, whoever you want emotion.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
That's when we need to go to therapy. That's when
we need to go to therapy.

Speaker 4 (23:41):
Emotional cheating, that's what we need to do.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
It's bad. But I don't know, man, there's something about
Is there something about physical cheating? Yes?

Speaker 4 (23:53):
Look, look yes I have heard some stories of people
what they have talked to other people about. And I
don't know, man, I'd be pretty fucking mad. I'd be
pretty mad, would be Yeah, I'd be pretty mad.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
But that's what I'm talking about, sticking it out and
going to therapy and ship like that, right, Like that's
what you do. But you know, once you cross the line, like.

Speaker 4 (24:13):
That's it physical cheating. That is a that is a
fucking that is a zero something game. For me, I'm out, like,
I don't.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
Know if I'd ever be able to get over emotional cheating,
Like this is how I know. I don't know if
I'm if I'm suited for marriage because I'm like, I
don't know if I can go to therapy over that,
Like that's I don't know if I find that she's
texting someone at your job and being like man, like,
my wife is such a bit. She just gets on
my nerves and she got so fat.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
And you know, running throw you out the window.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Aking you find, you find, you find a little find,
a little little waste. Asked about how the day is,
sending the pictures and be like, oh, what's you thinking about?

Speaker 2 (25:00):
You absolutely not? What are the replies like first of all.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Like I'm so, I'm so sorry this is happening to you.
I'm here to talk, you know, do you want you
want to go get coffee? Oh wow, you look so
good at your pictures. Have you been working out? Fuck that?

Speaker 2 (25:22):
No?

Speaker 4 (25:23):
No, wow, while you've been working out, your back looks great.
Would you like me to blow it out? Like no, no,
absolutely not. I don't think i'm but that's what I'm saying. Yeah,
you're like, no, is it different? Somehow? Somehow it's not worse,
but like, somehow it feels worse. It feels because it's

(25:45):
like a level of portrayal, Like like it's a level
of betrayal.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
You're just like.

Speaker 4 (25:52):
I'm stab you on the train, Like that's how I
feel about it. Like, no, no, that's that's a line
for me. I would I would be Just go to reddit.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Just go go to there. There are plenty of stories
like this on Reddit, and and you'll want to get
angry on behalf of the person who is posting about it,
and you'll be like, oh, wow, why aren't you guys
like divorce shit? Why have you not you know, out
of doors? Can you? I hope? I hope, I hope
your finances are not all tied up into this person.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
So sucks for you.

Speaker 4 (26:25):
Ye, get out of there.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
All right?

Speaker 4 (26:28):
So from there, like they're they're going back and forth.
He obviously reveals that she that Kaya cheated on him,
and she's like, you didn't talk to me somehow? Is
your fault that I fucked this other dude?

Speaker 2 (26:41):
No?

Speaker 4 (26:44):
And then this is when he gets the like the
like the I'm too Yeah, I'm too black for some people,
not black enough for other people. And then Kaya is like,
that's being manipulative. And then the therapist is like, would
it make you feel any better if you got to
step out there and get a little yo tad on
some tip like, and.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Clay was like, nigga, what the fuck are you?

Speaker 4 (27:12):
Yeah, that's a that's a wild thing for a therapist
to say. I'm like, we need when we step out
of like, we're kinda need to get a new therapist
because his nigga is wild.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
I feel like that was a good I felt like
that was a legitimate question to ask.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Put it.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
It's quite yes, yes, tell the tell the truth.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
This is.

Speaker 4 (27:36):
No, it's not your wife is sitting there. It's not
a safe space. He don't like to talk anyway, that's
why she cheated it to begin with. Yeah, that's a
that's a wild question. But he did not answer, clearly
he had other thoughts. So then he he had like
forgotten his bag or whatever. He goes back into the

(27:57):
therapist's office after his wife leaves, and the therapist is like, hey,
I'd like to give you something, and he goes to
give him a copy of the play The Dutchman, Right,
and he's like, nah, no, I'm good, and he's like, look,
sometimes you know we can find healing and you know, literature, like,

(28:18):
you know, this could be beneficial to you. And so
then he says, yeah, no, I'm good, and so then
he walks away. He walks out, and he realizes that
his watch stops working, which is curious. Then he walks
He's like trying to go to this party, calls his
buddy Aldice Hodge. He's supposed to be speaking at this

(28:40):
party because Alice Hodge's character is running for office, and
so he's kind of like gonna kind of bring him
to the stage with this you know, beloved speech, I guess.
And so then he goes and he hops on the
on the subway and he sees this. He sees Kate
Morris's character, this Lula, and she is standing outside of

(29:04):
the train.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (29:05):
And then we also are getting flashes at the therapist's office,
like he's got a little like a little figure of
a man standing on stage of a play. Right, And
so we see Clay looking at Lula, this white woman that.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Described for a minute, just a second when.

Speaker 6 (29:29):
When he's looking out the window at her and she's
staring at him, and I'm like, first of all, that
that whole situation, I'm like, what the fuck are you
staring at? It would be my my initial reaction, but
in my mind as I'm watching this, I'm like, this
is this is being me, me being very mean'd letting
you know that now, I said, you staring at Pennywise,

(29:54):
I'm sorry the red hair and the smile he was given.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
I was like, thanks, that's all Like that one thanks,
that wouldn't have.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Worked on you.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Oh no, not with her, Absolutely not.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
I don't think Kate mar said looking up a person
that's fucked up though, But now I only see Penny watch,
So thanks for that.

Speaker 6 (30:16):
You're no, But like this is this is the part
that pissed me off. I'm like you, First of all,
like you said, I would have got off, I would
have got off the train. Second of all, it's her,
not attractive. I'm not attracted to her.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Now what if it?

Speaker 4 (30:30):
What if it is Black on Black Cinema's favorite white woman,
Lady Kaka, who.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Got maybe possibly better shot, better shot than this woman.
I'll tell you that ship.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
Oh that's so funny.

Speaker 6 (30:47):
Maybe an asshole, but yeah, I'm you.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Know, Look, I couldn't help you.

Speaker 4 (30:51):
I don't. I didn't mind Kate mar in this role.
I do have a problem with sitting on a train
and a white woman sitting next to me and taking
off her shoes. I'm immediately out. I don't give a
I don't give a funk. What's happening next? Why are
you taking your shoes off your feet? You wear in public?
It's gross and it's on a subway subway yuck. You

(31:14):
clearly don't have the sense.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
That's not so. I have a question. You would, for
the record, if you were single, you would not go
home with the woman who took off her shoes and.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Comments in New York subway station. Yeah that means you dirty, yo,
you dirty. No.

Speaker 4 (31:35):
Look, I take any advancement of of a single attractive woman.
I think any advancement of of that person onto me.
With the knowledge of an episode of Seinfeld where George
hooked up with a woman the subway and she had
cuffed that pig to a.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Band eight dollars.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
Absolutely not. I'd be terrified. And look he had the
same the same response. He was like, what kind of
scam is this? I know what's gonna happen to me? Yeah,
you're gonna end up laying in a fucking bathtub and
he stole your kidneys. Absolutely not, absolutely not.

Speaker 6 (32:18):
If you decide to drink something, eat something they give you,
that's that's what you're fuck up.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Like what are you doing?

Speaker 6 (32:24):
Or like let them handcuff you to a bed. First
of all, No, that's too much, Like.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Absolutely no playing those games ever, Like.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
It's twenty twenty six.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, still not no, still still not far enough removed
from slavery.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
Nope, sorry, not into it. Yeah, I'm not like, look,
uh Clay. Clay gets up and he's just like she
sits not near him, next to him on a train
that has plenty of empties. Heats, absolutely not, and so
she's like, hey, you were staring at me, and he's like,

(33:07):
what what do you talk?

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Like?

Speaker 4 (33:09):
Leave me alone? And he literally gets up and goes
and sits on the other side of the train was
literally the sign behind him is says break the cycle.
I did not notice that at first.

Speaker 6 (33:19):
That's very funny.

Speaker 4 (33:21):
She pulls out a knife and she's like like the
Latin dude next her is like the fuck, like what's
about to happen? And she starts cutting cutting an apple
and then she's like she's talking to him in like
really kind of weird way. She's like, I was over

(33:44):
people's flesh, and he was like, chill out.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
It was at this point I was like, yo, nobody
talks like this. Yeah, like what the fuck is going on?
Like nobody nobody talks like this. Yeah, this was but
but yeah, but it makes sense when you know what
what this is based off of.

Speaker 4 (34:09):
But yeah, no, you know, I don't this.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
And this is where this is the first time the
distant the disconnect comes in with the age, right, like
Andre Holland, I didn't know how old he was, but
I figured he was around our age, right, And yeah,
I get it right, But like if fucking Becky White
just sits next to me on the subway train, I'm

(34:34):
getting the fuck off of there, Like I'm not going
to let this woman do what she does in here
and I get it, right, like if if you if
this was a younger man, then yeah, I get it.
But it just it just wasn't It took me a

(34:55):
minute to kind of get over it.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
But I would say I see it as like, what's
that of the movie with the Chris Rock movie with
Kerry Washington. That's what he that's who he kind of
reminded me of. Yeah, yeah, that.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
Would be equally is frustrating in a lot of ways too, because.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
I'm just like that was emotional cheating by the way, but.

Speaker 4 (35:25):
One thousand percent it was worse because he was like
he was he was right right about to dive in. Now, yo,
she coming to your job, and I'm like mm hmmm
mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
But like, it just it just seemed like that Auree
Holland's character, Clay just seemed like a man who has
never been like the ladies man like Zazzy beats is
gorgeous and it's one hundred to catch, but it just
seems like he's never been the guy that's been approached
like that before and this is my this is my

(36:00):
he doesn't know what he wants to.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
Do than him and I have a lot in common,
except I don't cheat on my wife, nor does she
cheat on me. But yeah, I'm a loser whose wife
is way above my pay grade.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Absolutely well.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
And he's fresh on therapy, so and so he's not
in the best emotional state. And he was asked a question,
wouldn't it make you feel better if you if you
got some payback to.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Again, wild question asked, And here.

Speaker 5 (36:33):
He has, uh.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Wherever I think, uh, where cheating can happen is if
you put yourself in a position where a cheating can happen,
and he did, mm hmmm.

Speaker 4 (36:44):
I would never get off the train with this white woman, never,
like it'd be fine if she was just like.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Things.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
I'd be like, that's cool. I'm to get off of
the next stop, get the funk out of here.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
That's what pissed me off, the fact that he got
off with him. I'm like, what's up with you, yo?
What you got going on?

Speaker 6 (37:01):
I mean, I know what you got going on. Your
wife cheated on you with therapy, but again with her.
That was that was the thing that pissed me up
the most about this movie.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
I think that I think that's just that's you, me
and you. But I think if it was again, if
it was Lady Gaga whatever other like, I feel like
you couldn't get me to do that just I'm not
I'm not trusting of other human beings enough that I wouldn't.
Like I just assume I'm gonna get fucking stabbed, Like

(37:32):
I just assume that's what would happened to me, Like
I just would.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Why did she.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Why did you? Like?

Speaker 1 (37:56):
Let me if if if this character, if this was
Scarlett Johansson or.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
Yep, yep, what I don't what train stop we're getting
off on?

Speaker 8 (38:08):
Like I don't need to be am I going to
be the odd man out here.

Speaker 6 (38:12):
I don't think she's super attractive.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
Yeah, you're the odd man out here.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
That's fine. I think she's attractive.

Speaker 6 (38:16):
Yes, I think she's I mean she's attracted, but she's
not like drop dead gorgeous to me, Like no, I
think I think it's because I kind of hate white
people at this point that I don't think anything.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
I guess.

Speaker 4 (38:25):
Yeah, I feel like that's that's a lot of this filter.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
That's it makes sense.

Speaker 6 (38:29):
It's like it's a filter that're like, y'all all get
my fucking nerves and you're less attractive because of your race.

Speaker 4 (38:36):
To me jesus.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
I mean, it is what it is. Look at the
country right now.

Speaker 4 (38:43):
Look look when you know, just like any like Instagram filters,
when Tarancey is white people, they all have maga hats on.
But like he's just like, I can't I can't not
see it.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
I'm sorry. Who did you vote for? Is my first question?

Speaker 4 (38:55):
Jill stein funk Off, I like, in this, what's that?

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Who she vote for?

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Who she vote for?

Speaker 4 (39:09):
The character?

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Definitely Trump? Yeah, I'm talking about the character. I'm not
talking about Kate I'm talking about.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
But definitely, you know what, she don't even vote that.
She's a She's a it doesn't matter type of person,
which is even more irritating.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
But she does what she was black, she did say
that or whatever.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, I don't like that.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
No, I didn't care. Didn't care for that. Audrey Holland
didn't care for that line either.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
He was like, what the fuck the biggest told the night?

Speaker 4 (39:41):
Yeah he got black as sucking that scene too.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Which was crazy.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
She fetishized him. He was like, I was still hit.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
I mean, I feel like that's that's not that crazy
of a comment. I think a lot of dudes.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Welcome to be.

Speaker 4 (39:57):
I don't like what you're saying. You can still take
the clothes off. That's fine. I can be angry later
ten minutes.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Even even after the fetishization that she was clearly.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
Have you not seen pornography again her?

Speaker 2 (40:12):
No, but like again someone else, you know what I watched?

Speaker 1 (40:17):
I washed them.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
I'm washing them, just saying it's it's I can't, I can't.

Speaker 4 (40:25):
Let's say it's not Kate mar Let's say it's not
a white woman at all. Let's say it's a black
woman and you know she's she's like enticing you on
the on this train ride.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
No, she can't be black.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
It has it has doesn't work this movie.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Okay, fine, yeah, like sama hyak or whatever.

Speaker 4 (40:42):
Oh I'm getting off the train. I'm not. I'm not
even going to the party. Fucking alder.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
Good. Have my wife already cheated on me?

Speaker 4 (40:52):
Yeah, same scenario.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Yeah I don't. I don't like cheat it either. But
like if my wife already cheated on me, it's selm
like she's crazy. I will take sixty however old she is.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
Now some Yeah, exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
So yeah, it.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
Depends on like I said, person from from dust till
all the way to all the way to Eternals doesn't
matter whole timeline. Yeah, so she she does it. She
already took her shoes off, which is pretty disgusting on
a New York subway. Then she takes her panties off
and puts it in his Yeah again, what are you doing?
I need you to relax?

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Oh oh, I didn't. I didn't see that part.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
She took her panties and put him in this fucking
pal part like it.

Speaker 4 (41:36):
He didn't. He didn't say no, thank you, He left
them in there, which is crazy. That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Time he was wildin that. Nigga was wildless. I don't
know what he Yeah, he was pissing me off too, Like,
what are you doing?

Speaker 4 (41:48):
She offers him an apple directly after giving him the panties,
and he's like, no, no, no, that's a bridge too far.
Her steak ass underwear are in your jacket.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
That it's worse m h.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
M hmmm mm hmm mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Unexcitable. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:10):
She And she also says like, would you like to
be down with me?

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Mister man?

Speaker 4 (42:13):
I didn't care for that. I didn't.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
I didn't really pissed me. I didn't like that. Every
word came out of her mouth. Yo, every word that
came out of her mouth. It's like when you watch
an interracial poorn and a white woman is calling the
black dude, then I know I don't care for that
ship at all. Get the fun I do not recommend.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
I didn't think.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
I'm gonna watch this for three more minutes and I'm
gonna turn it off not pleased about it. Yeah, yeah,
that's that I did.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
I did think she was gonna call him one, because
that was way for it, and she didn't. I was like, oh, well.

Speaker 6 (42:58):
That was that was fantasy and she didn't call him
a nigga at least once.

Speaker 4 (43:02):
I'm surprised she didn't say it while they were having sex,
where you're like, ah.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
They probably I wouldn't. I wonder if it was in
the script and Kate Marvel was probably like, I can't
do this, you can't do that.

Speaker 4 (43:12):
Like I was a fantastic for it. That was really bad.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
I'm not gonna white people, white people jump into white
people jump at the chance to say fucking nigga. She
would have said it if it was a script. Well.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Actually, fun fact, one of the actors on Stranger Things
who played who played a racist dude was supposed to
call the black kid a nigga, right, and he refused
to say it. Yeah, he refused to do it. He
was he saw and he was like, I can't.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
He saw his career flash in front of them. He
saw those fucking YouTube smash like mashup clips and him
just saying nigga forty five.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
He's like, nah, they're the only two people who get
to do it and have the career survive. Watson Goggins
and Quentin Tarantuna.

Speaker 4 (43:56):
Yeah, that's pretty much it.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
And combined the two right exactly, that's like.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
A million times in Hateful eight, Like god damn so
so they So when they're on the they get off
the subway together. Mistake number one. Actually it's like mistake
number seven. She takes her shoes off again. I cannot
stress this enough.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Do not do that.

Speaker 6 (44:23):
She kept switching shoes.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Yeah, two pairs of shoes.

Speaker 4 (44:26):
Yeah, no, I understand what was going on. I understand
that's gross and weird. So a black woman falls down
the stairs a little ways from them. Andre Holland's character
Clay runs over, helps her pick up pick up her things,
and it's like, oh, let me help you, and she's like, oh,
you're so nice, and this this black queen forever. So

(44:56):
he helps her and she says, you look like you're
searching for salvation. He the warnings before you your fake
can be different. It will be and then she whispers
to him, trust me, you'll see and then he hands
her back her phone, and then Kate Mar's character comes up,
and it's like, what was that all about. He's like,

(45:17):
I do not know.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
That's just how black people are. We just get along.

Speaker 4 (45:22):
And so she's like, hey, why don't you come into
my apartment? My apartment's right here, and he's like, I
don't really want to. And then he sees the psychologist
for a second, or at least he thinks he does,
but it turns out it's it's another guy who's looking
at him like, nig go, what are you doing going
to that white woman's apartment. It's like, shut up, Bill Cosby,

(45:45):
keep going. And so Clay and Lula they go up
to her apartment. It's got chains and masks everywhere, and
they proceed to have what I would.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
Argue literally descending into hell. Guys.

Speaker 6 (46:04):
When she said four flights down, I'm.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
Like, what.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Me?

Speaker 4 (46:12):
Well, well, maybe she lived in that sex apartment or
that that sex club, right, that's where she lives. They
have what I would argue is pretty terrible sex. She
she asked him, She's like, hey, I need you to
like throw me on the bed because like I'm into that.

(46:32):
And he was like all right, bet and he does.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yeah, I'm not No, don't do that.

Speaker 4 (46:40):
Don't trust it. Don't trust it. So if those are
on the bed, they start, they start having sex again,
it looks very.

Speaker 8 (46:49):
Bad.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
And the way he put but if something something in
that scene when they showed the condom, I was like, oh,
that's interesting. And I was like, well, I guess it's
a good thing. He's using protection because heaven forbid he
comes inside of her. And I was like and I
was like, oh right, yeah, they they never show and movies,
so so the practice I.

Speaker 4 (47:10):
Was like yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Then I was like, guys, yeah, but uh, you should
use them.

Speaker 4 (47:18):
So like, yeah, you should use them. I'm married, the Yeah,
married people who use condoms are that's.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
The whole point of getting married.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yeah, they don't want to get pregnant.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
Yeah all right, yeah, well we passed that now.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Well anyway, I was surprised that they showed it and
then my dems was like, oh, this is why never.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
She was like oh He's like he was like, yeah,
thanks for the memories. I'm out going to this party,
got my little workout and she was like, no, you
should take me. And he's like, uh no, this party
is black as fuck and you are you and I
don't fucking know you. By the way, she keeps talking
about how she lies all the time, right, like that

(48:13):
that is that's a that's a big part of her character.
And so she he goes to leave and she just screams, nigga.
I was like, no, in a world of trouble, dog you.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
I had to I had to pause the movie. I
had to pause. I had to take a quick walk
around out and I had to blow off some steam
man because this ship is this is this is this
is what I be talking about, Yo, this is what
I'm talking about. How long we've been doing this show.
This is what ninety four fifteen years saying the same shit.

(48:52):
Don't trust them?

Speaker 4 (48:54):
Oh I could do isquaw? Like what the oh?

Speaker 2 (49:00):
When I look at that, when I scream, the world stops,
I'm like, yeah, buddy, I was like there, I mean, yo,
look I get like, I get like hitting nails on
the head, but sometimes you need to really fucking nail
that fucking you need to beat the ship out of
it nail. And that line right there, I mean you

(49:22):
took a sledgehammer to a to a to a nail
with that line, Man, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
When I screamed the world stops, it's like uh. And
he like when he closed that door, walked back in,
all of his blackness was on his face. He was like, God,
damn it. I fucked up.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
He knew, he knew.

Speaker 4 (49:40):
He And she's like, oh, look, I have a bruise
on my arm. And he's like, yo, what the And
she's like, and I have DNA.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
It was like, oh no.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
And the DNA was was his semen in the condom
and she tied it up put in her bag because
remember because leading up to this, she was like, you're
gonna take it, take it to the party. He was like,
He's like, I can't take it to the party. And
I think she also was like you love me or whatever,
so she's.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Like, yeah, tell me you love me. He's like, I
don't lie. Yeah at it.

Speaker 4 (50:17):
I just met you nineteen minutes ago on the.

Speaker 6 (50:19):
Ages like you don't have to mean it, you just
I just want to hear you say it.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
What why?

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (50:26):
And also like before why he was getting ready, you
see like that quick flashback and it's like her true form,
which is like this old, this creepy, old, old white lady,
because like, oh you know what, because because like when
they were talking before, she's and she she was talking

(50:47):
about gray hairs and she was like, yeah, like one
gray hair for every years of experience or whatever. And
he was like, you're talking like you're old. And I
was like, that's super interesting. Why would you say that?
And then and then when they start having sex, he
tries to take off her top and she's like no,
and I was like, huh, why is that? And then
and then and then of course when you see her

(51:07):
shoe form, you see that she's like she's like this
super old, chrome looking lady. And I was like, oh,
that's party why all of this is. But everything else is.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
That I was looking at him like what the are
you doing exactly?

Speaker 1 (51:24):
And he and he's also seeing the therapist like he's
or he's seeing like the therapists in one shine, and
it's like another guy in like in like the next shot,
and he's like, am I seeing things while am I
seeing the guy in my in my therapy session? So
I thought that was very creepy. I did like the
super like the somewhat supernatural elements of this movie.

Speaker 4 (51:44):
Did you Okay, So how did you see those characters?
Because I saw them as like God and the devil
right like that, That's how.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
I saw it. Oh, the therapist was the was God
and she was the devil. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (51:57):
Well the therapist name was a Mary, which is I
don't know, man, I don't know what then was going on.
I was just like, to me, she was the devil
straight up, like the white devil.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Sure, angel and demon.

Speaker 4 (52:18):
Yeah, I mean just the idea of I lie all
the time. That that's a Luciferian ideal, right, like the
devil constantly. So so maybe that's it, but.

Speaker 6 (52:30):
They usually lie and tell you what you want to hear, like,
she wasn't telling anything this nigga.

Speaker 4 (52:34):
He was just like Jesus fucking fun. Yeah, just straight
fucking so they're in it. So he's like, so she
had screamed to the apartment. He's like, all right, all right,
I'll take you to the party. Please stop screaming, you
don't get me killed?

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Would you state?

Speaker 6 (52:51):
I mean I would Again, you wouldn't have been in
this situation to begin with. But if she when she screamed,
would you would going back in the apartment, I'd be like,
I do what you gotta do. I'm not fucking There
was a witness. Yeah, bro, you're kind of yeah, the witness.
The witness just looked at him as he was walking
out of the apartment.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
She screamed, right, but but but but she was out
of it, like can you believe this bitch?

Speaker 6 (53:20):
And like you would have to face the consequences later,
like I had sex with her. I didn't, fucking but again, it's.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
A white woman want her word against yours.

Speaker 6 (53:29):
So and she knew that my chances that I can't.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
I couldn't know.

Speaker 4 (53:35):
And and so he takes her to the party and
they're in the cab and then he's like nah, like
I'm out, Like this is this is crazy. He gets
out of the cab to try to leave her. She
literally gets out and goes to stands on the street
and then just starts screaming, And all these people are like,
white woman, white woman, are you okay? Did that nigger
hurt you. And then next they're headed to the party.

(53:58):
She's like, don't walk too far away.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
This entire scene was like Micah messaged me. He's like, yeah,
I'm watching it now, and I said, where are you
in the movie. He goes, they just got to the party.
I was like, Oh, it's about to get crazy. Like yo,
this whole scene is nuts. He shows up is black
as fuck. Everybody there is like super black and like

(54:24):
politically connected and all this other ship. And he shows
up with Penny Wise and uh, I hate you so much, Terrence.
I swear to god. He shows up with uh Lula,
and every black person is like, like, what the fuck.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Are you doing?

Speaker 6 (54:49):
That we would all have showing up with some white women.

Speaker 4 (54:54):
Yeah, that would be That would be nuts. That would
be Terran showing up to a party with Lady Gaga.
I'd been like, what the fuck is going on?

Speaker 2 (55:01):
This is crazy?

Speaker 4 (55:04):
And and so like she's doing, She's like saying all
these all this ship to like some of the guests
that are like kind of a bit racially inappropriate. She's like, oh,
this black guy is like a neurosurgeon. She's like, you
you're a doctor, Like doctor I don't think it looks

(55:27):
like you. I was like, oh, this ship was this
was maddening, Like I I was, you had to take
it out of the break.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Yeah, man, like what the fuck? Like she was pissing
me off Man, Like Jesus Christ, bitch, Like what the fuck?
Because it's because it's it's it's it's literally there's a
lot of there's a lot of evidence of people just
walking around with this mentality and carnal you literally, you

(56:01):
literally got it's literally the talented tenth are in this party.
And here's this dumb white woman like you're a doctor?
What huh? You don't look like a doctor. You've got
hair on your head or some dumb ship you don't
look like a doctor, like the ship pisces me off man.

Speaker 4 (56:21):
Yeah. And then and then.

Speaker 8 (56:26):
I'm telling you it didn't feel that much because I'm
just I'm just figuring that's how they're fucking face dude.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
So I'm just like a par for the course.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
But but but you know, you know, whats so you
know what's interesting about this character? Right? Because this character
is just straight up evil and she does not give
a fuck about what she's saying, and she knows and
she knows that she's just toying with them. When uh,
I think the other woman was like what, like, what
do you what kind of question is that?

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Like?

Speaker 1 (56:50):
Like what is the that do supposed to look like?
She's like, well, I mean what do you think?

Speaker 2 (56:54):
I mean?

Speaker 1 (56:54):
What what do you imagine? Was he a doctor clearly
clearly playing like this this racial cat and mouse with them,
knowing that end of the day, she's she's doing it
like on purpose, and it's so insidious and and and
which makes you know that when they do it in
real life it's intentional.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Stop beating around a fucking bush and just say what
the fuck you mean, bitch? Like just say say it.

Speaker 4 (57:19):
Well, it's because it's because it pisses you off that
much more, right, Like the Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
They know what they're doing, they know what they know,
they know it, they know it. Stop treating like I'm like, yo,
I don't they're trying to gas Is it fun to
be gas lit? Is it fun to make people go insane?
I don't think it's fun. That's why I don't do it.
This is it's hilarious that this movie is because because

(57:49):
like I think that way right, I just I'm just
not I'm just not as vocal about it as as
as Terrence is. Like I really do try. I really
do try, and that's my thing. I don't want to
have to stop trying. But god damn y'all, Like they're
really making it hard man, especially nowadays. Nowadays, it's really
real hard, real hard. I go to Florida every year

(58:14):
and I got to put up with her fucking dumb
ass friends and ship, and like it's real, it's it's
getting real difficult to to to treat people with respects,
getting real difficult.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
To be you know, you know, you know what, you
know what it is, because this is clearly like a
white woman who looks like she's mediocre and hasn't accomplished
a damn thing in her life except to just be
what she is. And then here she has the nerve
to go into this space of black excellence, and they're

(58:51):
trying to rebuild the city of Harlem, and here she
is questioning having having the goal to act, surprised that
that someone could be accomplished. But that's real life. Though
they like they they look they wh white people can
do next to nothing, and then and then look at
a black person who does everything and has had to

(59:13):
work quite hard to do everything, gets where they are
and still be like, huh wow, I'm surprised you you
you made it this far. Do they know what you
look like? Because I know what you look like, So
I'm surprised that you got this far.

Speaker 4 (59:25):
It was me.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
I'm mediocre, and I still feel more deserving than you
to have the life that you've clearly worked so hard
to build.

Speaker 6 (59:34):
No notes, Yeah, you're not wrong. And then and then
they have them and then have the temerity to say,
why are always bringing up racing and ship I'm like,
I to throw you through a fucking window. It's like, well,
first of all, like I always say, my identity in
this country is already fucking it's political, and it's racial,
like it's always based on race.

Speaker 4 (59:54):
It is, it's just everything.

Speaker 6 (59:55):
Unfortunately, unfortunately I wish it wasn't. I really wish it wasn't.
But that's not the case in this In this country,
especially me, being black is a political statement without even
doing anything.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Why are you so focused on identity politics? You just
need to focus on the economy and when and winning
and winning back to working class.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
I just watched Don Lemon had an interview with Sam
Harris on today.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
I don't know Harris.

Speaker 6 (01:00:23):
I don't know like that nigga either. He had a
conversation about and he was talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Like Harris, he's a nerve.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Like philosophy psychologist.

Speaker 4 (01:00:35):
Or something that like some philosophy and debate and.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Yeah he was, he was.

Speaker 6 (01:00:41):
He was having a conversation with and Don Lemon pushback,
He's like, not, that's a bunch of bullshit because he's
like this whole woke ship is what is what's causing
what's going on in in this country today, like identity
politics and all this other stuff, and got elected and
this I'm like, okay, man, okay, And that one was
like no, we're not not fuck that, that's not true.

(01:01:07):
But yeah, that shit drives me crazy. But this these
are the people that we have to deal with. Yep,
just mediocre folks, the people on your side, right, I
was gonna say, And Sam right, even the people even
he considers himself a fucking like a leftist.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
I'm like, so if you are, if you are, how
do you not see the ship? I mean you're not.

Speaker 6 (01:01:30):
You're white, so you don't actually see what we go through.

Speaker 4 (01:01:33):
But like come on, no, no, like Sam Harris, and
many people who think like Sam Harris, like and and
I normally have the tendency. And it's not really fair
to think that when I hear people say opinions that
like I vehemently disagree with, like just for shorthand, like
this person's a fucking idiot, Like Sam Harris is not.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
An idiot, right, He's not dumb.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
No, he's not dumb. He's a very smart guy. But
he has what a lot of intelligence white people still have,
which are blinders on and they are not willing to
work to take them off. And that, to me is
a level of sort of intellectual laziness that really kind
of pisses me off. He doesn't see it, and other

(01:02:15):
white people don't see it, like Bernie Sanders. I don't
think Bernie Andrews is like a stupid person either, but
he doesn't see it either. Oh, we gotta worry about
the working class. Everything in America is tied to race.
We don't have healthcare because of race, right, because white
people don't want to have, you know, they don't want
to have to pay into a system that benefits other

(01:02:36):
people who don't look like that, like that, you know,
and if you're a white person like I don't mind it, Yeah,
you don't mind it, but there are a lot of white.

Speaker 6 (01:02:42):
People who do mind it. Like the people that voted minded.

Speaker 4 (01:02:46):
Absolutely minded, right, don't We don't have those things. We
don't have you know, advanced fucking you know, trains and
shuff like that, because God forbid these people will be
able to get up and move around and do all
these things, and my money would have to go to that,
and like this equal you know, sort of egalitarian society
and everything else. They do not want those things. And

(01:03:08):
people like Sam Harris have lived in a world where
white men have dominated for so long, and he has
probably worked his ass off to get where he is.
I'm sure he has, right, he's a very smart guy.
So he just assumes that in a world where there's
no slavery in the United States, that if you just
work hard, you can get there too. And you're worried

(01:03:28):
about all this woke stuff because that's that's stuff at
the margins, No, bitch, that's everyday life for people, Like
it's everyday life. And the idea of like people not
being paid the right amount, people not getting jobs, people
you know, being you know, groups of people black people,
specifically being incarcerated at higher rates, and then when they
try to get a job because of the things like

(01:03:49):
you know, having to check the box on applications, that
affects us. So it's not just about money. It affects us.
There are policies or lack thereof, that affect black people
and people of color very specifically, that do not affect
white people nearly to the same numbers. They just simply don't.
And that's why those things exist. It's easy to say, well,

(01:04:09):
this group has more money and this group doesn't have
more money. The question is why do these groups have
more money for what? Do you think white people working
harder than black people? You think white people are working
harder than Latin folks in America? Get the fuck out
of here. They're not, but they have a leg up
and they don't largely want to give up that that
ability to be on top. Yeah, so Sam Harris is

(01:04:32):
like or not even full of shit. You're just completely
ignorant to how the other half lived, and you're not
trying to understand because it doesn't benefit you to understand.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Yeah, I was gonna say, I think they do see it.
I think they absolutely know that that these that these
issues are a problem. I just don't think they care
like I mean white for white leftists, and I don't
identify as a leftist. I will call myself a progressive,
but these left are completely insane me. But they have
blinder is on to anything that's not white or actually

(01:05:04):
know what they have. They especially have blinder on to
when it comes to the things that that affect black people.
No shade to my other folks of color, y'all are
also very important. But when it comes to to black
issues and that this country is found on slavery and
that this country has tried to remind us that we

(01:05:25):
were property and not people, they do not want to
deal with the fact that they have people in their
lives who also consider us still as property. Which is
why it's easy to look at at the at the
white farmer who's like Trump took my farm again, even
I voted for him three times, like fuck you Trump,
and I'm still to both of you though I couldn't

(01:05:45):
I couldn't find a way to vote Kamala Harris. But whatever,
They know that that that the issue is racism, but
they don't want to deal with that. So I think
what you see is them to just be like, well,
fuck whatever those white people have to say, we're going
to ignore it and we're going to go for the
real progressives, which they think are the Trump voters who
want everything Democrats want, but they really just want the

(01:06:08):
racism instead. So they've absolutely seen it. They just don't
care about us, and if anything, if anything, I think
there's resentment towards us in our progress because because we
won't seed our position of the party, we're not going
to just go away and we're not going to vote
for whoever whatever white PROGRESSI they're gonna throw on our

(01:06:28):
face just because just because they like them so much.

Speaker 6 (01:06:31):
Yeah, it's still about fucking Bernie Sanders.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
I literally yeah, they are all over thirst today for
whatever reason.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:06:40):
I literally went back and forth with somebody on Reddit
like just yesterday about the twenty sixteen race and they're like, well,
the DNC, the super delegates or whatever. I was like,
they never even got to the super delegates. Bernie lost, Yeah,
he lost outright, Like what are you talking about? Well,
it right, and they're like, well, they the DNC leaned, yeah,
because they want Hillary whatever. I was like, Hey, what

(01:07:01):
party is Bernie Sanderson? What party is Hillary Clinton. Gee,
you're telling me Bernie Sanders didn't win the Democratic nominee
in the Democratic primary. Shocking news.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
Who's the base of the Democratic Party?

Speaker 4 (01:07:16):
People and black women?

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Then there you go. They hate that. I'm saying, they
can't stand that. They don't, they don't they sorry story.
If you want to build a coalition, you you better
get your ass down to South Carolina and North Carolina
and all of them. And they don't want to do that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:34):
And look, you can you can like it, you can
hate it. You can think he was good or bad,
and I'm not I'm not even debating any of that.
But that's why Biden beat Bernie Sanders. They're like, well,
all the all the Democrats got in line behind Biden
once he got to South Carolina. Yeah, because that's where
the base of the party is, you dumb fucks.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
That's why Gavin Newson was down there last year.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
Yeah, you better get down there and start eating some
hogmarks or whatever the fuck they're eating down there, trying
to connect. You're not gonna win the nomination, But.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
You know, it's something something about that Jazz mc crockett,
though I don't know what it is about her, that
makes me not want to vote for her.

Speaker 4 (01:08:10):
Yeah, right, she did say something the other day. I
was like, that's not a good look. Like I wouldn't
have said that. That was what she said. She's she
had some statement they were talking about. I forget the
woman's name. She's a black representative. She's a Democrat. Maybe
she was Republican, I don't remember, but she's a she

(01:08:30):
was a she's a black representative. And she was a
representative for the Virgin Islands. And she was texting with
Jeffrey Epstein like during one of the like like one
of the hearings, and he was like feeding her questions
and they asked jazz A Crockett about that. Well, you know,
maybe she wasn't, you know, that's one of her constitutions.
I was like, nah, Yo, don't just offend her just

(01:08:52):
because she's another black woman. That's a terrible look. Like
you're taking your you're getting fed answers from a pedophile.
Just just be like yeah and ship I don't know
her like.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
With us.

Speaker 4 (01:09:04):
Yeah, Like, yo, that was insane.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
It was It was just nuts.

Speaker 4 (01:09:08):
It did not make her look good.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
But I will tell you I saw some some of
the some of the pole Data and saw the demographics
very interesting. Down a lot of white people, a lot
of the white Democratic voters. It will be Democratic voters
voter mostly for Tallerico.

Speaker 4 (01:09:23):
Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. I don't care whichever
one of them wins, because I ail support both. I
like both of them. But yeah, no, it does not
It does not shock me that it's going to be
pushed down on racial lines. By the way, the way
you win Texas is through Houston. So just the thought,

(01:09:44):
just the thought. You know, we tried the white guy before.
Didn't exactly work, but bet okay close?

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
All right?

Speaker 4 (01:09:54):
Anyway, so back to this, Yeah, my the party continues.
H Kaya is there. She sees him with Lula and
immediately she was she was this, like, you motherfucker, because
he made some comment like, oh, you're gonna bring this

(01:10:16):
to get you was with the party, you'll bring bad
bunny with you to the party. She was like, no,
what the fuck? Wow, he's the most famous Puerto Rican
right now besides the Paul brothers, I guess, and uh,
and she was like no, get the fuck out of here.
And then here he comes with Lula. She's like, look,

(01:10:38):
something's going on, Like what the fuck. And then we
see Lula talking to the bartender, who is the same
actor as the therapist, and so this is the this
is the whole supernatural element where you know, she's like, oh,
I like him, you know, I'm gonna take him or whatever,
and he's like, no, he's something special, Like yo, kind

(01:11:00):
of leave him alone. And this is kind of the
the god versus devil kind of complex that I got
from us. But you find out a little bit more
about these characters later on. And she's like, oh, just
wait for the fireworks. And then she starts drinking a
lot and starts like kind of dancing dancing around. Uh,

(01:11:21):
nobody's dancing. This is a serious ass fucking event. And
here she is getting super wasted.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:11:28):
He tries to talk to her and she does something
that was fucked up. He was like, you know, the
situation is crazy, and she starts raising the voice. She's like,
don't call me fucking crazy. He's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
he's your voice. He's your voice, Like slow down, which
I thought was hilarious. And then he tries to take
a purse because it's got the uh, the used condomy,

(01:11:58):
and and so she's like she's was kind of freaking out. Uh,
he goes up there, he gives, he gives his speech.
He realizes that he has no notes because he was
gonna make notes on the train, but he got distracted
by a she devil and so he looks down. His
hand has blood on it, foreshadowing on some Lady Macbeth

(01:12:21):
ship and uh, then he just kind of wings it.
And I gotta assume that this speech is also given
in the play. Maybe feels like it probably was, I
don't think so, Yeah, that's why. Yeah, he's talking about
Harlem and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
That's true.

Speaker 4 (01:12:43):
I thought Andre helland delivered his speech very well. Yeah,
it was a good moment. And so you know, then
he brings Aldus Hodge to the stage, who then is like,
watch my new show. And so he gets off stage
and then Lula it's like she's pretty drunk. She goes,
I'm gonna go up there and say something. I got

(01:13:04):
something to say, and I was like, Yo, don't fuck
up these black people's day. Please don't do that. And
so he was just like all right, bet, and he
just ripped the purse right out of her hand and
ran out the ran out the party, and she she
yelled at him and chased after him, Uh, you know,
saving his friend. Yeah, but he's trying to get the
purse open. He can't get it open. She runs out.

(01:13:27):
She's screaming that this black man stole the purse. He
of course, is immediately arrested, because when white cops hear
a black man doing something, they show right the fuck up,
except for all the other times that black people are control.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
Cops just do cops just patrol to beat New York.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:13:50):
There's a lot of people there.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
I don't know. I'm assuming they might they still.

Speaker 6 (01:13:54):
I guess they beat cops in US like riding and
not walking around. Maybe they would get a hot dog
some ship.

Speaker 4 (01:14:03):
I don't know from Grace Papaya, probably right they uh yeah,
there are There's two cops on a beat walking around
like uh like Mormons together. He gets arrested, He sees
the uh, he sees the therapist in in jail, and
the therapist is like, look like, I you know the book,

(01:14:27):
like I was trying to tell you, you know, like
really look into the book. You know, you gotta you
gotta figure out what's happening to you. And you know,
he's He's basically like, look, all of this ship is fate.
You need to get to this book, right, there's Salvation
at He gets bailed out by Kaya and she's like,
what the fuck is going on? You are wiling and

(01:14:51):
he's like, I don't know. I'm it's raining and I'm
scared and I'm tired. He goes, he tries to get
a cab. I just noticed that he tries to get
a cab but the cab driver is faceless.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:15:10):
So he eventually, uh gets to this apartment building and
he goes. He goes in and it's it's it's basically
like a theater and he walks up onto the stage
and it's the theater.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
It's the.

Speaker 6 (01:15:27):
The therapist's apartment. It's the therapist building, the therapist office.

Speaker 4 (01:15:31):
Oh yeah, yeah, you're right. And so he's like looking
through all the books and he eventually sees the same
mask that was at Lola's or Lula's apartment, and.

Speaker 6 (01:15:44):
He gave me I think that I think they was like,
give me something an analog to the Shining for this
fucking scene, because the music was very similar. If you
watch the Shining, like, this music is incredibly similar. I
did like the shot when he was walking into the theater.

Speaker 4 (01:15:59):
Oh, not very much. So he pulls a bookshelf down
to get to where the mask is, and when the
books all fall, they all become copies of the Dutchman
play and by Ami Baraka, And so he sits and
he reads it and he realizes it's just what's happening

(01:16:20):
to him, like word for word, and so he realizes
that he gets stabbed to death in the end.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
What do you think about what do you think about
the now that you've seen the movie and now that
you know what the play is about and how the
play ends, what do you think about this adaptation of this? Right? Like,
it's not a straight adaptation of the play because it
would be a half an hour long, right, but I

(01:16:54):
think a movie of it. I don't know how long
the movie is. Yeah, yeah, Jay was talking about that
we got on. I'm curious all the.

Speaker 4 (01:17:02):
Scenes you see, I'm black and white of the that's
from the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
Yeah, yeah, But what do you think of this idea
of how this is, of this this of a way
to adapt something using the source material in a meta way.
I don't think I've seen an adaptation like this before.

Speaker 4 (01:17:25):
No, I certainly haven't. I didn't mind. I thought it
was actually clever. Right, It's it's it's like a it's
like a rushing nesting doll sort of thing. Right, it's
like the play inside of a movie that's referencing the
movie that is based on the play. Right, Like, there's
there's very interesting layers in that. I like the idea

(01:17:48):
of that is that the play, while it's determining what's happening,
he has the ability to change the kind of the
narrative there. But yeah, I thought I thought that was cool.
I thought it was interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
I think to in the beginning to reinforce yeah, I
was well said, I think to reinforce Terrence's sentiment, if
you don't know you know that this is a play,
that this is an aptic I feel like you can
easily get lost and like, what the fuck is going on?
I'm going to check.

Speaker 6 (01:18:20):
Out, right, And after watching it, I was kind of
like when I said, I'm like, what the fuck was that?
And then I read what the play was. I read
the synopsis of the play, I'm like, Okay, the movie
makes a lot more sense. Now makes way more sense,
So I understand it. So now that I know what
it's about. I get it, and it's not as I

(01:18:40):
didn't think it was bad at all. I didn't think
it was bad. I just kind of like, what with
the point type of type shit. But now at knowing
what the play is, I'm like, Okay, that's not that bad.
But again, you have to know, it's like you, it's
like he did the he did the movie hoping people
wouldn't know what the play was, right, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
If you asked a lot, you asked a lot. Is
this like, hey, do you know what this obscure play
on race relations and what it feels like to be
off Broadway?

Speaker 6 (01:19:13):
Play Brittain in nineteen sixty five?

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
What? Like?

Speaker 1 (01:19:18):
You know what I do?

Speaker 4 (01:19:19):
I've seen it's seven it seems odd.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:19:24):
The the the film, the nineteen sixty six film based
on the play, it's only fifty five minutes long.

Speaker 6 (01:19:31):
Oh well, so not that just one something.

Speaker 4 (01:19:35):
Yeah, they didn't they didn't want to.

Speaker 2 (01:19:39):
Just stabbing a black man, folks.

Speaker 4 (01:19:44):
Alfred Alfredman Jr. He had a he had a pretty
story career as well. So yeah, I so you know
this this entire scene where he's kind of learning about
what's going on is kind of kind of interesting. And
that's when the therapist shows up and says, hey, I'm
actually I'mari Baraka. You know, I wrote the play. And

(01:20:09):
you know, he's like he's like, look, I created Lula
through this play, Like she just kind of came to life.
And this is what she does, is she finds these
men and like and kills them. And but you can
break the cycle. Now that you know that and you
have this information, you can break you can break the
cycle and and not be killed. And so Clay is like,

(01:20:33):
all right, bet, I'm gonna just go to the subway.
It's like you could just not do that, Like you
can just break the cycle by just not going on
the subway ever again. And whenever you see her, he
just run. But he gets on the subway. He as
he's getting on, he sees her getting on the same train.

(01:20:53):
Interestingly enough, the white woman that is sitting on the
train when he sits down, it's not Lula, it's another
one woman. She's the same white woman that was sitting
on the train when in the beginning, Lula shows up
and she's like, hey man, let's.

Speaker 2 (01:21:11):
Like, yeah, this this is the worst version of the
Matrix ever. Yo, Like this is the matrix that the
machines made for black people.

Speaker 4 (01:21:20):
Yo, just torturing you on a train for the rest
of U. That's pretty good. She's just like, oh, come on,
let's have sex. Let's like, let's fuck right here. And
then she starts she starts saying like, she starts singing, uh,
that's how the blues was born in this like black scent.

(01:21:40):
And I was like, listen, Iggy Azalea, you need to
fucking cos I don't care for this. She says things like, hey, Clay,
let's do the nasty again.

Speaker 2 (01:21:51):
I don't. I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:21:53):
I don't care for this language.

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
I mean a bitious like, what are you talking about again?
This was written in nineteen sixtyes, the Old Woman.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
So it's kind of like, well, I was about to
I was about to make that remark. I was gonna
say that because I Sister was written in the sixties,
and this is taking place I guess in modern times.
Like I just I was like, is this is this
another way for us to know that she's been alive
for a really long time? And she's like this old

(01:22:28):
ass cron lady.

Speaker 4 (01:22:34):
She shows up every seven years or.

Speaker 1 (01:22:36):
Something like that, you know, And I guess and I
guess she's she's done this several times, right, because the
therapist was like at the party with therapist was like,
oh he's he's different. Yeah, So I guess she comes
around every now and then stabs a black man named
Clay in the chest.

Speaker 6 (01:22:56):
She comes, she comes up every twenty seven years and
stabs a nigga.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
Is what I'm saying. I mean, that's that's what happens
in the play. Like in the play, like that's the cycle.
She she kills this dude and then she waits to
find another one. Yeah, m hmm.

Speaker 4 (01:23:14):
She calls him a black bastard. She says, you ain't
no real black man, You're just a dirty white man.

Speaker 6 (01:23:25):
Which yeah, she was saying, it's a wowd ship.

Speaker 2 (01:23:27):
I'm like what.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
She was Basically, he's using like like white people terms,
called him uncle Tom.

Speaker 4 (01:23:38):
Yeah, I don't. I don't care for that. Like it's
like that that white dude calling that black ice cop,
you know, like house like.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
Like like knock that ship off.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
A white man called a black cap a house nigga.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
Yeah, yes, this is.

Speaker 4 (01:24:08):
Look sometimes be complicated, like like.

Speaker 1 (01:24:13):
You can't I feel like saying you can't say that
I can can say that, but exactly, don't even think it.
Don't even think it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
You can think it, like I get that you can't
say it.

Speaker 6 (01:24:27):
We're gonna let you have to hook this one time.

Speaker 2 (01:24:29):
You say it again, knock your teeth out, all.

Speaker 4 (01:24:31):
Right, don't make me defend this nigga. I hate motherfucker,
but we are not on the same side here. Yeah,
and then Clay goes off on this whole rant, which
I have to imagine is from the original play, which is, yeah,
it was like I could kill you, I could kill
all these white people like and it's and this to

(01:24:51):
me is the moment where the therapist says, like, basically,
don't let your rage like to find you right like that.
That is kind of the whole point of the cycle
is that white people do fucked up ship we react
in a most human response, which is like, all right, bitch,
I'll kill you, and then it gives them like justification

(01:25:16):
in their mind to bring bring upon violence on us,
though they generally need very little in the way of excuses,
and so so this is this is her trying to
goad him into like that anger, and you can see
him like getting pulled into him and pulled into him
and pulled into it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:39):
And.

Speaker 4 (01:25:40):
Like she she's acting like she feels kind of bad
about all the ship that he's like saying to her
because he's laying the ship out like you don't know
shit about me.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
Just actually actually, like the poet of the movie, right,
just as.

Speaker 4 (01:25:56):
You fucked me, doesn't mean you know what it is
to be black. You don't know ship.

Speaker 2 (01:26:02):
I heard. Look another another fucking sledge hammer on a
nail that needs to be driven into the foreheads of
people that look like Pennywise, because look, I get it, bro,
like you you that black tar gotcha, But like, don't
think that you know what it's like to be down

(01:26:22):
or whatever you like it just all right?

Speaker 6 (01:26:28):
Yet that ship irritates my soul, kisses.

Speaker 2 (01:26:30):
Me off to know I'm right there with your right Terrence. No, no, like, no,
you're not. What are you talking about?

Speaker 4 (01:26:40):
I listened to hip hops? Isn't that enough?

Speaker 2 (01:26:43):
I under.

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
This scene was giving me so much anxiety because you see,
because you see how Clay is stabbed like in the
like I guess in that TV thing that from early
in the movie, and the way he kept walking around and.

Speaker 4 (01:26:56):
Reaching like.

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
Wow close, I'm like I.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Was like I was like, can you like to stand
back it would the other side of the train and
stop walking near her and you know, crowding over her
where she could just go right there in you're in
your chest, please otherwise grace speech, Great grace speech, O Clay.

Speaker 4 (01:27:21):
Yeah, I didn't. I didn't like it. I like, I
like the speech. I'm just saying I didn't like how
fucking close he was. I was like, you have protective
armor on, like you know, some phone books under your
shirt something, some jail shit, like come on, man, don't
stand too close. And then he's like, yeah, you could
end all this if you just thrust a knife into me, right, Like,

(01:27:44):
isin't that what you want to do.

Speaker 2 (01:27:47):
Every twenty seven years? As bitch, get out here.

Speaker 4 (01:27:51):
And so then like he has this really great line
about like great intellectual legacy of white men being pushed
on black people and but you better watch yourself because
they'll they'll end up taking on this world that you want,
but they'll still kill you anyway, and all like it's
a really.

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
Great speech, by the way.

Speaker 4 (01:28:09):
It's it's just it's it's really well written and it's
very well delivered. And so he's like he's at the
train door, and she just takes out a knife and
instead of stabbing him, she like kind of cuts his side.
What she fucked up? Like, now you gotta you gotta
go right for the juggular immediately.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
Why did you try it? Back to her? Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:28:34):
Yeah, never. And so they're on a train. You get
like flashes of what she likes. Looks like like an
old white woman. You know, the lights keep going on
and off, and eventually, you know, lights come on, and uh,
he stabbed her right in her dumb stomach. And then

(01:28:57):
of course the the cops get on the train and uh,
nobody you know, yeah, the black woman that he helped
from earlier, this black queen. Uh, she was like no,
he's the victim, like this woman was trying to kill
him and everything else like, and they're like no, we're

(01:29:18):
going down of the station, sit down, like shut up,
and we don't believe you. And then she hit his
ass with the fucking four k sell footage. She was like, wow,
there it is on tape, and and they were like, oh, ship,
I guess we got to let him go.

Speaker 2 (01:29:36):
Because uh, black women saving another nigga. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:29:41):
Again, by the way, not exactly how a murder case
would work. They're not just gonna let you go, still
just going, don't We gotta have buddy. And then we
see that the the train is run by I am
the therapist. He is, he is everywhere and nowhere, He

(01:30:04):
is whoever he needed him to be, is what he
says to him earlier. And then when he looks down,
like even his cut is it's gone. So he's he's fine,
and Lula is dead and she looks like an old
white woman.

Speaker 2 (01:30:21):
That's revealed, which really puts into context that whole party scene.

Speaker 3 (01:30:29):
Yeah, everybody know what the fuck is that they were? Yeah,
I like to think that that's what they were. White woman, Yeah,
say you love me now.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
Out of here.

Speaker 6 (01:30:46):
So that's what Zazzy Beats was seeing when she was
in that fucking party.

Speaker 8 (01:30:49):
I would be like, NI were getting in the divorce,
but like Nicka, you know, I almost loved it, Like
you know what I fucked up first, but like I'm
f that's why.

Speaker 2 (01:31:07):
You saw terrible decisions. Bro, This is coming from somebody
that broke up on marriage first.

Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
Well you saw like Altus hodges characters reaction. He looked
he was like He's like, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:31:24):
Nigga, what they're like did you take something? He was like,
did they give you drugs? Like what is going on?

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
You know what that you know, that could be why
the reaction of everyone else was just like it was
like a side eye, but it wasn't like completely like
oh hell no, no, he did not bring like this
woman here like it was my grandma.

Speaker 2 (01:31:48):
Yeah, poor woman.

Speaker 1 (01:31:53):
Yeah that that that makes that makes sense now, like
that because their reaction could have been much stronger, because
because if if they had seen what he had seen,
like a younger woman, he probably wouldn't have been able
to go up and give that speech that night. So
they probably just saw an older woman and was like,
I guess something is weird here, all.

Speaker 4 (01:32:13):
Right, bro, Like everybody's got a fetish yuck.

Speaker 1 (01:32:19):
And and it could also make sense why when she
started screaming and dancing all weird, like people were like like, bro,
she gotta go. But if she's an old lady, people
are there's only so much you know, if we were
gonna do about an old lady, Yeah, yeah, maybe like
oh you're her.

Speaker 2 (01:32:38):
Yeah. It was like because like I gotta imagine that
woman that was standing next to that neurosurgeon would have
beat the ship out of somebody if she looked like
you know what I mean, right, you don't you don't
think my friend is a goddamn doctor because he's black nigga?
Like what the fuck right?

Speaker 4 (01:32:57):
And it doesn't make it doesn't make sense if you
think about like the things in what she's saying are
the words of an old they're they're the thoughts and
words of an old white woman. So you're just kind
of like, okay, I oh, what do you think of
when you see a doctor? Like, yeah, that's exactly what
an old white woman would say, Like that's fucking wild.

(01:33:20):
Oh they're let negroes be doctors in hospitals, all rights.
And so yeah, he he does what any uh, what
any nigga does. When he sucks up, He goes back
to his black wife and is like please, baby, please
take me back, and he's like, we need to talk.

(01:33:41):
What do you mean, No, she cheated on him first,
She owes him an apology.

Speaker 1 (01:33:46):
He was like, no, no, I know, I mean for him, Hilda,
I'm sorry, No, I mean well actually for both of them.
The answer is no, like there's no, well there's no
in my opinion, but whatever, break up.

Speaker 4 (01:34:01):
Noah, you got you got you gotta let him back. Then,
that ain't his fault, got said, And so he slept.
He slept with some like ninety seven year old white woman.

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
You didn't know, But MI said, do you do you
think that marriage is salvageable? You see them making it past?

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
Uh this, My marriage wouldn't. So that's all that matters
to me. I don't know. Some people, you know, they
put up Some people put up with that ship.

Speaker 4 (01:34:31):
I do not. I wouldn't have if I was hurt.
I wouldn't have answered the door. How about that. I
would have kept the door going, what do you want?
Yelling through the class like, wow.

Speaker 1 (01:34:40):
Jay Jake, would you but you were the one who
broke you well, you would have been the one who
broke your vouse first.

Speaker 4 (01:34:45):
No, no, no, no, no no no, I'm a hypocrite
above everything else. No, you can't come in. Get out
of here, no. Like, So he goes up to the
he goes up to the house and he's like, can
we tell? And she's like about what? And his answer,
which is the correct one? Everything? First off, you cheat

(01:35:09):
at first, and then you start from there like that's
that's how the conversation has to go. And then she
hugs him, and then she's like, yeah, like you fucked
up first. And so he goes into the house and
he sees that he's got the Dutchman play in his pocket.

(01:35:30):
I think it would have been funnier if if he
went to reach board and the panties fell out the
other pocket, Like oh, but but because he's now seeing
her for who she is, is just a pair of
fucking bloomers, like some old lady like, oh, he's on
sexy at all. And so he sees the book and

(01:35:53):
then he realizes that he was being hypnotized as the
pages were being turned by the by the That's that
was what was happening. And so like he looks in
the mirror, but his reflection moves slightly at a different
speed than he does, and I guess that represents like
the both versions of himself, right, but now they're they're

(01:36:17):
kind of synced up.

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
I kind of saw the whole thing as like the
you know, the whole movie is the whole movie was
a fever dream based off of this like hypnosis that
he was like, hey, let me show you something, and
then he flips through it and then like he's mesmerized
or whatever, and then the whole movie plays out and

(01:36:39):
then he's like, now you you that's how this therapist
is able to deal with his patience. He takes them
on a wild fucking journey for an hour ago and
it it's like, all right, now you know you you you,
you know what you gotta do now right, So now
now that you know what you got to do, now

(01:37:01):
that you've seen what can happen and you know how
to fight through it, now go talk to you woman,
and you know, make sure she apologizes to you first,
because she fucking cheated on you based on a fucking hunch.
You can jump into conclusion.

Speaker 6 (01:37:17):
Man, it would be a fucking trillionaire by.

Speaker 4 (01:37:23):
Terrible idea. This is a terrible idea, Like you know,
it's not turns out that's how Zazzy beats lives her
entire life. That's how our marriage is devised.

Speaker 2 (01:37:36):
All right.

Speaker 4 (01:37:37):
That is it for episode two ninety four The Dutchman.
Check it out wherever you can rent movies and we
will see you guys next week for another prefere episode.

Speaker 1 (01:37:46):
See ye peace, yeah yeah, yeah you

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The Dutchman (2025) | Amiri Baraka's Explosive Racial Confrontation

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Dutchman (2025) | Amiri Baraka's Explosive Racial Confrontation