November 25, 2025 • 38 mins
Jon and Sam kick off the show describing a unique feature of the studio and master control booth. Jon looks at comments from a Democrat candidate running for office in Tennessee. Daveed Gartenstien Ross joins to discuss Federal legislation to regulate AI, different types of AI models, and the pitfalls of AI in children's toys.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
No, look, this is still Donald Trump's Republican party, and.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
We can see it here.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
They it's like a rock. To quote Bob Sieger, I mean.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Take a look here, Republicans who approve of Trump. Six
months ago, it was eighty seven percent.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Now, well, hello, it's the same number.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
It's eighty seven percent.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
He has not lost any support among Republicans compared to
six months ago. As I said at the beginning, he's
like a rock. He's like a rock. The Republican base
is sticking by Donald Trump.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
At this point, and he really is interesting to watch
his overall and go down, down, down, down.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
But see this be completely constant here.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
It is among independents, it is not among Republicans.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Okay, So how does this compare to past president's in
a second term?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, okay, I think this gives the game away, right,
which is Donald Trump? If you look at twenty first
century president's own party approval at this point in term two,
who leads the pack?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
It's Donald John Trump.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Eighty seven percent of Republicans approved Donald John Trump. You
go back to twenty thirteen, seventy eight percent of Democrats
supported b'roack Obama, and it was seventy eight percent of
Republicans who supported George W. Bush back in two thousand
and five. At this point, so Donald Trump has the
biggest own party highest own party approval of any president
who served their entire second term in the twenty first cents.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
He could look, there's one of two ways.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
He could say, obviously he's doing way better than past presidents,
or you could say there is still room to settle
if there is a reversion to the mean here. If
that does fall further, that could ship into his overall approval.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Radio Okay, good best pod awake in uh, there's no
wikramala last you.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Trump Morning, and I love your show.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
Twin City's News Talk Am eleven thirty one oh three
five FM live on the iHeartRadio app from the sixty
five to one Carpet plus.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Next Day Install studios. Some call me John J. Justice,
Others call me other things.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
And the Master Control booth next door is Sam the
Moran John Justice.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I just like calling it the Master Control Booth.
Speaker 6 (02:15):
I got that, and don't worry, I won't call you
other things.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
Well, it only just I only just realized, I mean,
I don't know, I'd only started calling it that. A
couple of months back, but I only now recognize that
we have, like the doors of the studios are all
adorned with stylistic letters, you know, of the of the
stations and all that, and it says master Control out there.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
That's that's cool. That's better than the saying the booth
next door.
Speaker 6 (02:43):
Did you write the nameplate by the way, I did? Okay,
I figured that was you.
Speaker 7 (02:47):
That was me.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
I am shocked that nobody's removed it yet.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
We have we have nameplates outside of all the studios
as well.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Like I'm looking right through our studio door and I.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Can see KADWB, Dave Ryan and then the heart logo.
I'm looking just looking right at it across the across
the hall through the little sliver of our of our
jail like door.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Because that's really what it is. It's like it's like
a jail door.
Speaker 6 (03:11):
It's heavy. I mean, they're really heavy doors.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
Yeah, but you know what's so funny about Well, let
me address your thing. You're what you said real quick
before I get completely off on a tangent. It's Thanksgiving week,
I don't care. But so we have these these placards
and they're usually done up nicely. Well, we never updated
the plaque outside because of the rotating cast of individuals
(03:33):
that work in the master control. But and I felt
bad about that, so I just grabbed a piece of
paper and a pen. Then I wrote the names of
of you, Devin and Brett, since you're the only ones
that ever go and help produce the show. And I
threw it in the little the little placard holder. So
you know what, maybe on my all my days off
this week, I'll you know, print something up a little
(03:53):
bit nicer.
Speaker 6 (03:55):
Well, I appreciate that, although I think you're giving too
much credit to the folks down the hall. I did.
I think I just forgot about forgot about us producers.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
For your hand.
Speaker 6 (04:03):
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean well i'll tell you not
to your story about that, Okay, I'll go.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
That's fascinating to talk to. Well, that's what I'm looking
forward to. No, it's funny about the door.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Just really quick, So any new guests that we have today,
Speaking of guests, good An a trail candidate phil Parish.
Philip Parish will be I.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Don't know, it's funny.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
I don't know if he goes by phil I think
he just goes by Philip. I mean have arbitrarily shortened
his name. I was up late last night. I went
and did Laura Ingram Pinky's up. He'll be joining us
at eight o'clock this morning, Devid Gartenstein Ross our ai
analyst at six point thirty this morning. But whenever we
(04:45):
have new guests into the studio, I have to tell
them when we when they leave, the door isn't locked.
It's just super heavy because it is what you would
expect to see like in like in a holding cell
at a police you know, at a police station.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
It's that thick.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
It has a very sliver and just a very small
sliver of a window made of metal. And what's funny
about it though? There is there's no lock, right like
I know why they I don't think they because they don't.
They don't want radio hosts barricading themselves in the studio.
Speaker 6 (05:21):
I'll buzzy out, John, you're off the air now that
that I right?
Speaker 5 (05:25):
That I completely understand, or vice versa locking us in studios. So,
you know, talk show hosts, in radio personalities in general,
we are a where a we are a volatile, volatile group.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
What does a being mean, Michael?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
What is a being mean?
Speaker 8 (05:42):
What does a mean.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
So we're gonna get into this coming up in just
a moment. I am fascinated with this Yahoo often being
running against the Republican Matt van EPs in a special
election next week on Tuesday, has been just presenting the
far left positions as frequently as she can, from past
(06:05):
audio to current audio. There was a video that's now
been released of Often being being hauled out of a
representative's office by capital law enforcement.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
I mean, the woman is just a psycho.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
We have here comments that I'll share with you coming
up of what her concern was in the aftermath of
the horrific School Christian School shooting. So we'll get into
this coming up in just a moment. I'll share the
audio with you also. Pete Hegseth the seditious six, pointing
(06:40):
to the six lawmakers to put the video out, trying
to wedge themselves between our nation's military and the commander
in chief. And we have more audio to share from
Texas Congressman Ruben Diego, who makes a really compelling argument
pushing back against the potential EMPs to go and investigate
(07:02):
Mark Kelly. So got a lot to get into in
a short period of time ahead of my conversation with
David Gartenstein Ross and his answering of any AI related
questions that you might have. Speaking of that, just a
quick preview. Trump did sign an order yesterday launching what
is being called a Manhattan Project for artificial intelligence, and
so we will get David's thoughts on that.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
As I mentioned, if you're listening on the iHeartRadio app,
leave us a talk back.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Those are brought to you by Lyndahl, a real team.
We'll also take your emails as well, Justice at iHeartRadio
dot com. Welcome to Tuesday show. I'm glad you're with us.
Don't go anywhere. It's Twin City's news Talk Am eleven
thirty and one oh three five FM.
Speaker 8 (07:53):
Hey john Sonya and Laura last night. Thanks for staying
up late for us, and I appreciate your efforts to
make the disgusting situation national news. You're a part of that,
and thank you so much. Have a great day.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
Thank you for that. Don't thank me too much. I
like driving around my car. Not a fan of going
to downtown Minneapolis at night, I'll tell you that much.
I don't think I've ever been more cognizant of my surroundings.
(08:29):
It's the driving down to the studio in downtown Minneapolis
last night. Let's go back to your talkbacks as we
continue to kick off Tuesday show here on Twin City's
News Talk from the six five to one carpet Next
Day install studios.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
That's heavy.
Speaker 9 (08:43):
Jail door wouldn't have anything to do with sound isolation,
would it?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Asking for a friend have a good day?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
I would guess.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
But I've worked in several studios throughout my career and
this door is the biggest and heaviest door that I
have ever that I have ever used for a studio before.
That would be my guess is that it would be soundproofing.
Doesn't do it fantastic. It doesn't do a great job.
You guys can't hear it on the air, but I
can't tell you how many times I can either hear
Katie w B essentially in front of me or Kfa
(09:17):
N and the Power Trip to the shares the wall
right right to the back of me. They bang on
a lot of things in there during their show. I
don't know what's going on.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
It's Fridays, but they're not as fun as we are,
that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Oh, that's kind of that's nice of you to say.
Speaker 9 (09:32):
Good morning, John Tam Kansas City.
Speaker 10 (09:34):
Uh.
Speaker 9 (09:35):
Yesterday I watched Fox Live Now Live Now for Fox
for almost an hour and listen to the entire Somali
community and all of the big cheeses in Minnesota except
Walls of course, lamenting about this.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Taking away this provision.
Speaker 9 (09:53):
And not one peep about the fraud that you never
mentioned the fraud, not one time, no with no, no.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
This is the this is the playbook, this is the tactic.
They're only going to go and focus on that which
is most politically viable.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
There there is what's the word I'm looking for.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
They're not rational about any of this whatsoever. If you
are a rational individual, you can do both. I mentioned
this yesterday. You can do both. You can you can
criticize the opposite, the opposition party, but you can also
focus on the concern to do something about it.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
But the Democrat Party.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
By and large is taking this position where we're going
to ignore the horrible thing and we're just we're just
going to focus solely on pushing back on the party
in power, the opposition party. That's the case with the
seditious six. There is no conversation on the left about
whether or not the those six members of Congress should
(11:02):
have done the video. This was all coordinated, this was
all planned and listen, they laid a trap. Trump took it.
But he had no choice but to set the trap
off because it simply can't be avoided. You know, I
was thinking, is there an argument to be made about
this video calling on our military to avoid illegal orders
(11:25):
even though they've all pretty much admitted there are no
illegal orders? Is there a scenario where you just ignore
the video and forget about it?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
And yeah, there is, but to do.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
So would be to your own demise because they shouldn't
be doing that.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
It's completely wholly inappropriate.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
It is teetering on seditious action, which is why there's
an investigation going on.
Speaker 11 (11:51):
Now.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Before I get to more of that, I do want
to talk a little bit about this psycho Aften Being,
which is a really good example and why I wanted
to with you this morning. Democrat Afton Bean said Covenant
To shooting made her fearful for trans communities. This is
in the aftermath of the Tennessee Covenant School Christian School shooting. Michael,
(12:15):
what does being now running to represent Nashville is probably
going to lose. They're calling her the AOC of Tennessee.
She's worse than that. Said in the aftermath of the shooting,
it was incredibly upsetting for her family because of the
anger directed at trans communities. Absolutely no commentary or sympathy
(12:36):
for the victims involved. Immediately they default to the identity
of the perpetrator.
Speaker 12 (12:44):
So, for those of you who don't know, my partner
has a trans son, and the month of April and
the final week of March was incredibly upsetting for us.
Speaker 13 (12:58):
In the wake of the Covenant shooting and the disclosure
that the Covenant shooter was trans, I was pulled into
a chat with other trans organizers and activists across the
state that were fearful of their lives. We identified threats
from white wing groups that they would show up at
these trans Day of Visibility events and threatening our trans kits,
(13:18):
and so I had a staffed moment where I decided,
we need more people talking about the protections for trans
kids in our trans communities at the legislature every day.
The first thing I would do is I want to
reiterate my first bill, which is to curb the expanded
state surveillance of our trans community. To the state is
(13:39):
going after they're criminalizing mutual aid funds. And for those
of you who don't work directly with mutual aid funds,
this is a primary monetary channel that a lot of
trans community members use to pay bills, and so the
state intends to fully go after that so that they
cut off any resources for trans folks. And third, every
legislative session, I've promise to carry a trans bill of riots.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
So I mean, there is no accounting for the victims
in any of this. I mean the fact that she
is focused on the murderer as a means to push
her agenda tells you all that you need to know
about this psychoe.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
What mean?
Speaker 11 (14:20):
What does A mean?
Speaker 3 (14:22):
There was another video going around.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
I didn't grab the audio for this one, but there
was another video actually was an audio piece of I.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Don't know where this was pulled from.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
I think was a podcast, but she was telling a
story of talking with her therapist and going on about
dreams that she has had wherein she didn't want to
be a mother, she just wanted power.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Again.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
Hopefully she's going to lose soundly in this election, but
she is very much indicative of where the Democrat Party
is right now, let me share one more with you.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
We'll get into more.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
Of this after my conversation with Davide Gartnstein Ross coming
up in just a moment. You have Secretary of War
Pete Hegseth calling those members of Congress the seditious six, despicable, reckless,
and false in the claims that they made in the video.
But you also had Rubin Gego, congressman out of California,
(15:23):
a part of that whole group of individuals, shooting a
video in his car laying out the reason why he's
upset at the investigation potentially into Mark Kelly. And a
hat tip to Sam for editing this because it needed
a lot of it.
Speaker 7 (15:41):
This is being insane. We shall point out how insane
this is.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Hey, this is Reben Diego.
Speaker 7 (15:46):
I'm traveling through Arizona right now and I just see
them use that Department Defense is starting investigation against my
seat mate, Mark Kelly. This is being insane. We shall
point out how insane this is. And you know, these
guys are trying to say that they're not acting like fascists,
They're not trying to give as much power to this
(16:08):
president as a king. They should start to stop acting
like it. Mark Kelly's a patriot. There's no reason why
they're going after him. He was doing his duty and
just reminding people about their rights as service members. And
you know, Secretary heiseth all these guys, You guys, you're
not gonna be able to scare us. We have a
right to defend the Consutsition United States. We have a
(16:28):
right to tell other service members that they have a
right to ignore illegal orders. And you're not going to
be able to intimidate us.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
There's no arguments there. He got into kings, he got
in fascists, but he didn't do a single thing to
explain his position. As a matter of fact, he went
so far to go and downplay what he was saying
of you know, it's just him passing on information. There's
nothing wrong with this. Well that's the case. And there
(16:56):
was no need to get six members of Congress draft
a script, coordinate the effort to put this video out
there if it wasn't that big of a deal, if
it was just common sense. But this is where the
party is right now. No arguments, nothing of substance in
(17:18):
terms of pushing back, just explitive leyden commentaries with the
typical tropes pointed at President Donald Trump and Republicans. Are
we you audio to Shriff Caroline Leve of the White
House Press Secretary regarding this issue again. We'll get to
that coming up after my conversation with Devid Gartenstein Ross.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
If you have any questions for David.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
Regarding artificial intelligence, leave them on the iHeartRadio app talkbacks.
We'll get to those in just a moment. A number
of different issues regarding Trump. According to a Washington Post article,
is there a rift between Trump and the MAGA bass
over AI as Trump signs an order launching what they're
saying is the Manhattan Project for Artificial intelligence. David Gartenstein Ross,
(18:02):
the CEO of Expert Theory, joins us next on Twinnesday's
News Talk Am eleven thirty and one to three five FM.
As we get ready to talk with David Gartenstein Ross,
the CEO of Expert Theory, I want to start here.
This would be Energy Secretary Chris Wright on Fox News
(18:25):
talking about President Donald Trump signing an executive order akin
to what they say is the Manhattan Project that will
deploy forty thousand United States scientists and engineers for the
rapid advancement of AI over our competitors.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
With this pen.
Speaker 14 (18:43):
Today President Trump signed an historic mission. This is reminiscent
of the Manhattan Project that brought World War Two to
an early and successful end, similar to the Apollo projects
that put a man on the Moon in nineteen sixty nine.
This is an all in national effort to take the
power of AI and pair it with the forty thousand
(19:07):
outstanding scientists and engineers at our national labs to use
the world's largest supercomputers to advance innovation and science, to
fix our rising energy costs, to give better economic opportunities
for our citizens, to make longer and help your lives possible.
Speaker 11 (19:26):
Today.
Speaker 14 (19:26):
Today was not incremental, Brett, it was transformative.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
The project will partner researchers at each of the United
states seventeen national Laboratories, with businesses and academic research centers
to work on AI development and models.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Joining us now again.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
CEO at Expert Theory David Gartzenstein Ross, David, Good morning,
and what are your thoughts on this executive order by
President Donald Trump. Oh, we're having audio problems currently. I'm
going to figure this out. So we've got to figure
this out, and okay, we'll look into it.
Speaker 7 (20:06):
Right now.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I think you can hear me.
Speaker 11 (20:07):
Now, John, there we go, There we go, go on, there
we go. It's good to be heard. Good morning, John,
it's great to hear you and great to be heard.
Apologies for the short audio problems.
Speaker 5 (20:18):
But right maybe we'll tak Maybe we'll take care of
it via Trump's executive order.
Speaker 11 (20:23):
Maybe so, maybe so, but I believe that however, you're
one hundred percent human, so you can't. This is true guarantee,
dum uh so. Look, it's it's a significant executive order.
A lot will come of this, Obviously, a lot of
thinking about AI today, with a growing divide between President
(20:48):
Trump and his base on artificial intelligence. Trump is all
in on the Manhattan Project for AI, which has the
which has a very cool name, Genesis Mission.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, that's like, it's very inspiring name. I like it.
Speaker 11 (21:03):
And at the same time, you know, rising concerns about
the impact of AI and people's jobs, rising impact about
the impact or rise a concern about the impact of
AI on people's children. And in the big picture, I
think that there's very few strategic thinkers who have their
heads wrapped around AI and how this AI arms race
(21:27):
between the US and China plays out how you you know,
how you can contain the downside while capturing the upside.
These are all big, big questions that it seems like
there's very little good thinking about.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Yeah, let's a little bit of the order here. I
wanted to share with the audience. The Genesis Mission will
dramatically accelerate scientific discovery, strength and national security SCCUR, secure
energy dominance, enhance workforce productivity, and multiply the return on
taxpayer investment into research and development, thereby furthering America's technological
(22:03):
dominance and global strategic leadership, according to the order. Now
with that, David, unbeknownst to the listener, Bruce lets us
a talk back, and it's kind of along the same line.
So let's go ahead and get to the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 15 (22:19):
This is kind of an inside baseball thing, But it's
just wondering when Devide comes on Wall Street Journal ran
an article about a kind of a minority report guy
on AI saying that all this pursuit of a large
language model is the wrong way to go and that
need to support something called a world model instead. Just
wondering if he read the article and what he thought
of it, If he did are.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
You familiar with that at all?
Speaker 11 (22:41):
David Gartenstein Ross, I haven't read the Wall Street Journal article.
I do know different models of AI as I think
you know, John, Your listeners probably don't. I have been
working on AI in a variety of ways for around
a decade to working on actually building.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Up AI models.
Speaker 11 (23:01):
If you look go back to twenty seventeen, I was
working on a model to predict the prevalence of terrorist
attacks in certain geographies, and for that we used a
completely different model than the current large language models. That
was called recurrent neural networks or RNNs, which today is
regarded as a little bit of a backwater, but at
(23:21):
the time was very much cutting edge. What I'll say
is that there are other models that people will look
to and we'll say are better than large language models.
Right now, obviously there's a lot of movement forward with
large language models, So overall, I think that there certainly
are other models that should be used.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
But given all the breakthroughs in LMS.
Speaker 11 (23:46):
In answer to Bruce's question, I don't think it's right
to say that the focus on LMS is misplaced. It's
clear that there are breakthroughs here and that we're clearly
scratching the surface, and a generation down the road there
may be a model that we utilize that is either
better or that is combined with lms to make lms
even better, but we're not there today.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
Well, that was my next question would be, can you
in vision a scenario wherein we do not have all
of these separate large language models and basically we just
have one, you know, one AI large language model to
rule them all that well, that we all utilize, or
(24:29):
maybe you know, I guess maybe is a more akin
to like a Google where most people just use this
particular one so it becomes the dominant one among others.
But I'm curious, you know, there would be just one
AI model that everybody would be using.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
It's possible.
Speaker 11 (24:46):
So to to get back to Bruce's question, the person
of being quoted in the Wall Street Journal is named
yan Lukun. This is an AI engineer and the argument
being made and again like I only skimmed the article,
but the the argument that he makes is that there's
a more comprehensive model called a world model. It's not
about Lacuda is not arguing that there are better large
(25:10):
language models than our current lms, but that there is
a more comprehensive AI world model that we can use
which gives AI a more grounded and causal understanding with
the world as opposed to LMS, which understand the world
by understanding language. Ultimately, like, there's a lot of different
things that go into the world model versus the LM model.
(25:32):
But going back to what I was talking about before,
to illustrate the difference between one LM versus LMS in
opposition to a world model, what recurrent neural networks tried
to do through artificial intelligence is mimic the pathways that
the human brain takes, right Like, in other words, it
wasn't trying to model language. It was trying to model
(25:52):
out the brain, which is really interesting and it's a
little bit inconsistent with using an LM. They're just different
models for how the artificial intelligence thinks. And so I
think that's what lacun is talking about. That being said,
what I do think we could have in the future
is integration of different models for logic or how to
understand the world with large language models. In other words,
(26:13):
the large language model could I realized by the way,
this is like way over the technical for your show.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
So I apologize for that.
Speaker 11 (26:21):
But what we could have as a situation where the
large language model provides the ability to think, the ability
to chat, while you have another model, such as a
world model, which provides it the ability to understand. Lakum's
big problem and so probably we all have, is that
llms have some understanding of the world. I think they
do yield insight, and I would argue that they have
(26:41):
a kind of intelligence. But everyone could point to areas
where lms just get things wrong or where you have
to correct them multiple times before they start to finally
understand the world. That's kind of this deep dive into
the talkback that Bruce sent to you.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
So with Trump and his Manhattan project, the Genesis mission,
this is being widely reported. What's not getting covered very
widely is there's a potential for some risks going on here.
And I don't know how much stock I put into
this Washington Post report. We'll talk about it in just
a minute. But out of the Hill, there was also
another report where Trump was considering an executive order to
(27:20):
block state AI laws as the White House pushes for
a federal framework on the technology. Now, there could be
a possibility that the announcement of the Genesis Mission might
include this here. I haven't done my own deep dive
to find that out or not, but from the reporting
on the Hill, they say this order would direct Attorney
General Pambondi to establish a task force focused on challenging
(27:45):
state AI measures and seek to restrict some federal fundings
to states who pass laws that are deemed erroneous, according
to a draft obtained by The Hill and in the
story and it's well if it talks about how the
President and like minded Republicans have strongly opposed to state
proposals meant to address the technological and societal risks of AI,
(28:09):
particularly those that have been enacted by California Governor Gavin Newsom.
There's obviously a political component in all of this, but
just your overall thoughts on the federal government reaching out
to the states and saying we don't want you blocking
these potential in their mind safeguards relating to the advancement
of AI.
Speaker 11 (28:28):
Technology, it's super interesting. I don't have a problem with
the executive order. I think it you know, a lot
of it would come down to the implementation. But to
get back to the keyword here, it's it's onerous, right,
It's that the task force that the Attorney General would
set up, Pam BONDI would challenge state AI measures and
(28:51):
restrict some federal funding the states that pass laws that
are deemed onerous. When I look at that, and I
look at the kind of laws that they would challenge,
it's not some of the laws that and so both
you and I are looking at an article on this in
the Hill about Trump's proposed or the executive order that
he is considering. And one of the things that's raised
(29:12):
in this regard has been different state level bills that
seek to protect children, you know, AI toys for example.
There's a number of articles on this have been really
creepy with children speak.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah yeah, I mean spoiler alert.
Speaker 11 (29:32):
Do not yet your chilled child an AI toy for
Christmas if you have a you know, a child who's
between ages three and twelve. No, no, no, not a
good Christmas present. But you know, when we look at
laws that are designed to create child safety, I don't
think those are the kind of laws that will be challenged.
(29:53):
And I'd much rather see those laws addressed to the
federal framework anyway, rather than having disparate state laws. What
the Executive Order points to is something that has long
been true that when you have a regulatory framework with
multiple states and very different policies from each state, it
creates a system where it's almost impossible for an AI
(30:15):
company to exist in a national marketplace.
Speaker 7 (30:18):
Right.
Speaker 11 (30:18):
One of the things that we tend to see as
advantageous commercially is when you have a certain set of
standards that you have to satisfy to get into all
fifty states as markets. If all fifty states are different markets,
it's really hard for an AI company to do national business.
So overall, when we look at the importance of AI
as a commercial sector and.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
The AI arms race with China, I do think.
Speaker 11 (30:42):
That what Trump is moulling makes a lot of sense
to try to limit the number of disparate regulations that
commercial AI companies have to deal with at the state level.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Talking with David Gartenstein, Ross are AI analyst and experts,
I's the CEO at Expert Theory, and you kind of
answer my question on the subsequent article in the Washington
Post where there are some reports coming out of DC
that there is a rift between some Republicans and the
Trump administration over what we were just discussing. My question
(31:17):
to you, Davide was going to be, you know, are
we balancing between the technological advancements and the potential need
for safeguards? And if I'm hearing you correctly, it sounds
like that we are. It sounds like we're doing that,
especially when you keyed in on looking at the more
onerous aspects of what states are trying to do versus
making sure that we were not putting products out there
that are going to put our children at risk. It
(31:39):
seems like we've got a bit of a balanced approach,
even though there's conflict involved in how we're achieving that
balance well, or.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
To be clear, I'm not even argue that we have
a balanced approach.
Speaker 11 (31:50):
Just when it comes to that executive order to challenge
state laws that are too onerous, I think this is
something like that is helpful. I think that states have
the tendance two, you know, especially with this new frontier,
to create laws that can stifle innovation. When you look
at all fifty states and they're differing regulations that they
(32:13):
put into place with respective balance, that's a much larger question,
right Like we're the Trump administrations all in on AI.
There's a lot of downsides. You know, AI companies, policy makers,
others are really only getting their heads wrapped around what
the downsides of ar of AI are as. I think,
(32:34):
as you know, and so your listeners will recall I
testified before Congress on AI and it's used by terrorist
groups earlier this year. And you know, this is an
area where even policy makers who are really interested in
the issue set like the expertise at a policy making
(32:54):
level just doesn't really exist. If you look at who
is heading up the White Houses policies on AI, they're
AI business bend. They're going to fall on the pro
AI side of that divide. So, to be very clear,
I don't think we have balance. And how to get
balanced is a really interesting question. And it's one of
(33:16):
those where technology in this area has far outstripped our
ability to legislate or regulate or think through implications. And
it's moving really quickly. When we look back on this period,
we won't regard it as a balanced period.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
Well, and it's interesting you say that too, because as
we talk about the concerns that are growing among these
consumer advocacy groups and the children's toys being released, the
fact is these toys are being released and they're already
out there for children to go on access, so there
hasn't been the safeguards put in place yet in Devid.
Just as as an example, less on a children's toy,
(33:55):
even though it kind of is. I was watching a
video montage and I had never seen this before, but
it was a tiny almost look like a I guess
the best way I could describe it to be like
a Ferbie size the Ferbies, and it was it was
a little like AI, you know, friendly looking AI alien
and you walk up to it and it would recognize
(34:16):
that you're standing in front of it. It would say,
speak a phrase to me, and I will create a
song for you.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
I mean, the jokes right themselves.
Speaker 5 (34:24):
The video montage was various people that were going and
doing every single imaginable, ridiculous and offensive thing they possibly
could and getting every single one of these toys to
all go and create songs that are playing inside of
the store.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Now that's more on a comical level.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
But what we're talking about here are these AI embedded
toys that children can have like Teddy Bears, wherein they
find out how to light matches or explanations on adult activities,
and we don't have any regulations in place keeping these
toys from heading to market. It's one of the few
times where I actually agree with these advocacy groups and
getting out ahead warning parents, Hey, don't purchase these for
(35:00):
your for your kids because you simply don't know what
they're gonna have access to. Yeah, I mean, I know
a lot to unpack.
Speaker 11 (35:09):
No, it's I'm not even laughing at the question, right,
It's it's more just the utter idiocy of having these
AI toys. Right Like, you understand the thousand things that
are gonna go wrong, and the thousand like humans are
not by their nature, holy benign creatures. Right, tell me
(35:29):
a phrase and I'll make you a song. Yeah, everyone
understands where that's gonna go. Right, Like, at the end
of the day, even if you try to put safeguards
in place for like toys talking to children about explicit
sexually explicit topics, and that's one of the issues that
have come up with these toys, there's always a workaround, right,
Like AI is like in part large language models are
(35:51):
logic models, and if for most AIS, I haven't spent
time on like the Chinese large language models for a
variety of reasons, but like for most AIS. If you
ask about something and it says it can't go there,
and you keep talking, there's a workaround, right, Like, at
the end of the day, somebody who wants to talk
(36:11):
about with an AI about something is going to be
able to do so unless you are really, really good
and confident in your ability. Like the damage that AI
has done to children already, including you know people, you know,
kids are using AI as their therapist, as their best friend.
(36:35):
You know, there's been there's one case with a suicide
where like there are horrible things that character AI ended
up saying to this child, Like you know, it's just
the amount of harm already is off the charts, right,
And that's where we get back to that there's not balance,
Like I agree with with the federal government trying to
(36:58):
override and not have fifty different state regulatory frameworks. But
right now we're plunging ahead and there are you know,
AI is doing damage and that's gonna that's going to accelerate.
So we're at this point where everyone's reacting in various ways.
(37:19):
There's a strategy to accelerate AI. There is no real
strategy to deal with the harms, and that's where I
think that both President Trump has a point and his
base certainly has a point about how we're pledging ahead
and pledging ahead in a way that will help us business,
(37:39):
which I think is generally good. But man, these harms
are happening. Yeah, we need to deal with them.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
David Gartenstein, Ross, CEO at Expert Theory, as always, thank
you so much for the time this morning. Let's do
it again soon and I hope you and your family
all have a fantastic thing Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Thanks so much for coming on.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
This morning to be likewise, John, Happy Thanksgiving to you
and your listeners.
Speaker 10 (38:06):
Hey John, with DGR talking about LM's and RNMS, I
have only thinking about Good morning Vietnam and how we're
all going to end up in KP when the VP
shows up for his VIP.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
They got there, There we go.
Speaker 5 (38:26):
Thank you for the talkback from the iHeartRadio Radio app.
We'll get to more of those coming up on Twin
Cities News Talk, including revisiting in a few of those
comments rolled in that we'll get back to. Hegseth coining
a new nickname for the Democrats pushing for military insurrection.
Any Dinah moves ahead and unveils their proposed city ordinance
that would ban many firearms and certain gun magazines. Are
(38:49):
they poised for a lawsuit from the Minnesota gun Owner's Caucus.
I will tell you next on Twin Cities News Talk
AM eleven thirty and one oh three five FM.
No, look, this is still Donald Trump's Republican party, and.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
We can see it here.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
They it's like a rock. To quote Bob Sieger, I mean.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Take a look here, Republicans who approve of Trump. Six
months ago, it was eighty seven percent.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Now, well, hello, it's the same number.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
It's eighty seven percent.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
He has not lost any support among Republicans compared to
six months ago. As I said at the beginning, he's
like a rock. He's like a rock. The Republican base
is sticking by Donald Trump.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
At this point, and he really is interesting to watch
his overall and go down, down, down, down.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
But see this be completely constant here.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
It is among independents, it is not among Republicans.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Okay, So how does this compare to past president's in
a second term?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, okay, I think this gives the game away, right,
which is Donald Trump? If you look at twenty first
century president's own party approval at this point in term two,
who leads the pack?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
It's Donald John Trump.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Eighty seven percent of Republicans approved Donald John Trump. You
go back to twenty thirteen, seventy eight percent of Democrats
supported b'roack Obama, and it was seventy eight percent of
Republicans who supported George W. Bush back in two thousand
and five. At this point, so Donald Trump has the
biggest own party highest own party approval of any president
who served their entire second term in the twenty first cents.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
He could look, there's one of two ways.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
He could say, obviously he's doing way better than past presidents,
or you could say there is still room to settle
if there is a reversion to the mean here. If
that does fall further, that could ship into his overall approval.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Radio Okay, good best pod awake in uh, there's no
wikramala last you.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Trump Morning, and I love your show.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
Twin City's News Talk Am eleven thirty one oh three
five FM live on the iHeartRadio app from the sixty
five to one Carpet plus.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Next Day Install studios. Some call me John J. Justice,
Others call me other things.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
And the Master Control booth next door is Sam the
Moran John Justice.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I just like calling it the Master Control Booth.
Speaker 6 (02:15):
I got that, and don't worry, I won't call you
other things.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
Well, it only just I only just realized, I mean,
I don't know, I'd only started calling it that. A
couple of months back, but I only now recognize that
we have, like the doors of the studios are all
adorned with stylistic letters, you know, of the of the
stations and all that, and it says master Control out there.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
That's that's cool. That's better than the saying the booth
next door.
Speaker 6 (02:43):
Did you write the nameplate by the way, I did? Okay,
I figured that was you.
Speaker 7 (02:47):
That was me.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
I am shocked that nobody's removed it yet.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
We have we have nameplates outside of all the studios
as well.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Like I'm looking right through our studio door and I.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Can see KADWB, Dave Ryan and then the heart logo.
I'm looking just looking right at it across the across
the hall through the little sliver of our of our
jail like door.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Because that's really what it is. It's like it's like
a jail door.
Speaker 6 (03:11):
It's heavy. I mean, they're really heavy doors.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
Yeah, but you know what's so funny about Well, let
me address your thing. You're what you said real quick
before I get completely off on a tangent. It's Thanksgiving week,
I don't care. But so we have these these placards
and they're usually done up nicely. Well, we never updated
the plaque outside because of the rotating cast of individuals
(03:33):
that work in the master control. But and I felt
bad about that, so I just grabbed a piece of
paper and a pen. Then I wrote the names of
of you, Devin and Brett, since you're the only ones
that ever go and help produce the show. And I
threw it in the little the little placard holder. So
you know what, maybe on my all my days off
this week, I'll you know, print something up a little
(03:53):
bit nicer.
Speaker 6 (03:55):
Well, I appreciate that, although I think you're giving too
much credit to the folks down the hall. I did.
I think I just forgot about forgot about us producers.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
For your hand.
Speaker 6 (04:03):
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean well i'll tell you not
to your story about that, Okay, I'll go.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
That's fascinating to talk to. Well, that's what I'm looking
forward to. No, it's funny about the door.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Just really quick, So any new guests that we have today,
Speaking of guests, good An a trail candidate phil Parish.
Philip Parish will be I.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Don't know, it's funny.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
I don't know if he goes by phil I think
he just goes by Philip. I mean have arbitrarily shortened
his name. I was up late last night. I went
and did Laura Ingram Pinky's up. He'll be joining us
at eight o'clock this morning, Devid Gartenstein Ross our ai
analyst at six point thirty this morning. But whenever we
(04:45):
have new guests into the studio, I have to tell
them when we when they leave, the door isn't locked.
It's just super heavy because it is what you would
expect to see like in like in a holding cell
at a police you know, at a police station.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
It's that thick.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
It has a very sliver and just a very small
sliver of a window made of metal. And what's funny
about it though? There is there's no lock, right like
I know why they I don't think they because they don't.
They don't want radio hosts barricading themselves in the studio.
Speaker 6 (05:21):
I'll buzzy out, John, you're off the air now that
that I right?
Speaker 5 (05:25):
That I completely understand, or vice versa locking us in studios. So,
you know, talk show hosts, in radio personalities in general,
we are a where a we are a volatile, volatile group.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
What does a being mean, Michael?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
What is a being mean?
Speaker 8 (05:42):
What does a mean.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
So we're gonna get into this coming up in just
a moment. I am fascinated with this Yahoo often being
running against the Republican Matt van EPs in a special
election next week on Tuesday, has been just presenting the
far left positions as frequently as she can, from past
(06:05):
audio to current audio. There was a video that's now
been released of Often being being hauled out of a
representative's office by capital law enforcement.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
I mean, the woman is just a psycho.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
We have here comments that I'll share with you coming
up of what her concern was in the aftermath of
the horrific School Christian School shooting. So we'll get into
this coming up in just a moment. I'll share the
audio with you also. Pete Hegseth the seditious six, pointing
(06:40):
to the six lawmakers to put the video out, trying
to wedge themselves between our nation's military and the commander
in chief. And we have more audio to share from
Texas Congressman Ruben Diego, who makes a really compelling argument
pushing back against the potential EMPs to go and investigate
(07:02):
Mark Kelly. So got a lot to get into in
a short period of time ahead of my conversation with
David Gartenstein Ross and his answering of any AI related
questions that you might have. Speaking of that, just a
quick preview. Trump did sign an order yesterday launching what
is being called a Manhattan Project for artificial intelligence, and
so we will get David's thoughts on that.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
As I mentioned, if you're listening on the iHeartRadio app,
leave us a talk back.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Those are brought to you by Lyndahl, a real team.
We'll also take your emails as well, Justice at iHeartRadio
dot com. Welcome to Tuesday show. I'm glad you're with us.
Don't go anywhere. It's Twin City's news Talk Am eleven
thirty and one oh three five FM.
Speaker 8 (07:53):
Hey john Sonya and Laura last night. Thanks for staying
up late for us, and I appreciate your efforts to
make the disgusting situation national news. You're a part of that,
and thank you so much. Have a great day.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
Thank you for that. Don't thank me too much. I
like driving around my car. Not a fan of going
to downtown Minneapolis at night, I'll tell you that much.
I don't think I've ever been more cognizant of my surroundings.
(08:29):
It's the driving down to the studio in downtown Minneapolis
last night. Let's go back to your talkbacks as we
continue to kick off Tuesday show here on Twin City's
News Talk from the six five to one carpet Next
Day install studios.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
That's heavy.
Speaker 9 (08:43):
Jail door wouldn't have anything to do with sound isolation,
would it?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Asking for a friend have a good day?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
I would guess.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
But I've worked in several studios throughout my career and
this door is the biggest and heaviest door that I
have ever that I have ever used for a studio before.
That would be my guess is that it would be soundproofing.
Doesn't do it fantastic. It doesn't do a great job.
You guys can't hear it on the air, but I
can't tell you how many times I can either hear
Katie w B essentially in front of me or Kfa
(09:17):
N and the Power Trip to the shares the wall
right right to the back of me. They bang on
a lot of things in there during their show. I
don't know what's going on.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
It's Fridays, but they're not as fun as we are,
that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Oh, that's kind of that's nice of you to say.
Speaker 9 (09:32):
Good morning, John Tam Kansas City.
Speaker 10 (09:34):
Uh.
Speaker 9 (09:35):
Yesterday I watched Fox Live Now Live Now for Fox
for almost an hour and listen to the entire Somali
community and all of the big cheeses in Minnesota except
Walls of course, lamenting about this.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Taking away this provision.
Speaker 9 (09:53):
And not one peep about the fraud that you never
mentioned the fraud, not one time, no with no, no.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
This is the this is the playbook, this is the tactic.
They're only going to go and focus on that which
is most politically viable.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
There there is what's the word I'm looking for.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
They're not rational about any of this whatsoever. If you
are a rational individual, you can do both. I mentioned
this yesterday. You can do both. You can you can
criticize the opposite, the opposition party, but you can also
focus on the concern to do something about it.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
But the Democrat Party.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
By and large is taking this position where we're going
to ignore the horrible thing and we're just we're just
going to focus solely on pushing back on the party
in power, the opposition party. That's the case with the
seditious six. There is no conversation on the left about
whether or not the those six members of Congress should
(11:02):
have done the video. This was all coordinated, this was
all planned and listen, they laid a trap. Trump took it.
But he had no choice but to set the trap
off because it simply can't be avoided. You know, I
was thinking, is there an argument to be made about
this video calling on our military to avoid illegal orders
(11:25):
even though they've all pretty much admitted there are no
illegal orders? Is there a scenario where you just ignore
the video and forget about it?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
And yeah, there is, but to do.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
So would be to your own demise because they shouldn't
be doing that.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
It's completely wholly inappropriate.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
It is teetering on seditious action, which is why there's
an investigation going on.
Speaker 11 (11:51):
Now.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Before I get to more of that, I do want
to talk a little bit about this psycho Aften Being,
which is a really good example and why I wanted
to with you this morning. Democrat Afton Bean said Covenant
To shooting made her fearful for trans communities. This is
in the aftermath of the Tennessee Covenant School Christian School shooting. Michael,
(12:15):
what does being now running to represent Nashville is probably
going to lose. They're calling her the AOC of Tennessee.
She's worse than that. Said in the aftermath of the shooting,
it was incredibly upsetting for her family because of the
anger directed at trans communities. Absolutely no commentary or sympathy
(12:36):
for the victims involved. Immediately they default to the identity
of the perpetrator.
Speaker 12 (12:44):
So, for those of you who don't know, my partner
has a trans son, and the month of April and
the final week of March was incredibly upsetting for us.
Speaker 13 (12:58):
In the wake of the Covenant shooting and the disclosure
that the Covenant shooter was trans, I was pulled into
a chat with other trans organizers and activists across the
state that were fearful of their lives. We identified threats
from white wing groups that they would show up at
these trans Day of Visibility events and threatening our trans kits,
(13:18):
and so I had a staffed moment where I decided,
we need more people talking about the protections for trans
kids in our trans communities at the legislature every day.
The first thing I would do is I want to
reiterate my first bill, which is to curb the expanded
state surveillance of our trans community. To the state is
(13:39):
going after they're criminalizing mutual aid funds. And for those
of you who don't work directly with mutual aid funds,
this is a primary monetary channel that a lot of
trans community members use to pay bills, and so the
state intends to fully go after that so that they
cut off any resources for trans folks. And third, every
legislative session, I've promise to carry a trans bill of riots.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
So I mean, there is no accounting for the victims
in any of this. I mean the fact that she
is focused on the murderer as a means to push
her agenda tells you all that you need to know
about this psychoe.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
What mean?
Speaker 11 (14:20):
What does A mean?
Speaker 3 (14:22):
There was another video going around.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
I didn't grab the audio for this one, but there
was another video actually was an audio piece of I.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Don't know where this was pulled from.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
I think was a podcast, but she was telling a
story of talking with her therapist and going on about
dreams that she has had wherein she didn't want to
be a mother, she just wanted power.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Again.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
Hopefully she's going to lose soundly in this election, but
she is very much indicative of where the Democrat Party
is right now, let me share one more with you.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
We'll get into more.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
Of this after my conversation with Davide Gartnstein Ross coming
up in just a moment. You have Secretary of War
Pete Hegseth calling those members of Congress the seditious six, despicable, reckless,
and false in the claims that they made in the video.
But you also had Rubin Gego, congressman out of California,
(15:23):
a part of that whole group of individuals, shooting a
video in his car laying out the reason why he's
upset at the investigation potentially into Mark Kelly. And a
hat tip to Sam for editing this because it needed
a lot of it.
Speaker 7 (15:41):
This is being insane. We shall point out how insane
this is.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Hey, this is Reben Diego.
Speaker 7 (15:46):
I'm traveling through Arizona right now and I just see
them use that Department Defense is starting investigation against my
seat mate, Mark Kelly. This is being insane. We shall
point out how insane this is. And you know, these
guys are trying to say that they're not acting like fascists,
They're not trying to give as much power to this
(16:08):
president as a king. They should start to stop acting
like it. Mark Kelly's a patriot. There's no reason why
they're going after him. He was doing his duty and
just reminding people about their rights as service members. And
you know, Secretary heiseth all these guys, You guys, you're
not gonna be able to scare us. We have a
right to defend the Consutsition United States. We have a
(16:28):
right to tell other service members that they have a
right to ignore illegal orders. And you're not going to
be able to intimidate us.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
There's no arguments there. He got into kings, he got
in fascists, but he didn't do a single thing to
explain his position. As a matter of fact, he went
so far to go and downplay what he was saying
of you know, it's just him passing on information. There's
nothing wrong with this. Well that's the case. And there
(16:56):
was no need to get six members of Congress draft
a script, coordinate the effort to put this video out
there if it wasn't that big of a deal, if
it was just common sense. But this is where the
party is right now. No arguments, nothing of substance in
(17:18):
terms of pushing back, just explitive leyden commentaries with the
typical tropes pointed at President Donald Trump and Republicans. Are
we you audio to Shriff Caroline Leve of the White
House Press Secretary regarding this issue again. We'll get to
that coming up after my conversation with Devid Gartenstein Ross.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
If you have any questions for David.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
Regarding artificial intelligence, leave them on the iHeartRadio app talkbacks.
We'll get to those in just a moment. A number
of different issues regarding Trump. According to a Washington Post article,
is there a rift between Trump and the MAGA bass
over AI as Trump signs an order launching what they're
saying is the Manhattan Project for Artificial intelligence. David Gartenstein Ross,
(18:02):
the CEO of Expert Theory, joins us next on Twinnesday's
News Talk Am eleven thirty and one to three five FM.
As we get ready to talk with David Gartenstein Ross,
the CEO of Expert Theory, I want to start here.
This would be Energy Secretary Chris Wright on Fox News
(18:25):
talking about President Donald Trump signing an executive order akin
to what they say is the Manhattan Project that will
deploy forty thousand United States scientists and engineers for the
rapid advancement of AI over our competitors.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
With this pen.
Speaker 14 (18:43):
Today President Trump signed an historic mission. This is reminiscent
of the Manhattan Project that brought World War Two to
an early and successful end, similar to the Apollo projects
that put a man on the Moon in nineteen sixty nine.
This is an all in national effort to take the
power of AI and pair it with the forty thousand
(19:07):
outstanding scientists and engineers at our national labs to use
the world's largest supercomputers to advance innovation and science, to
fix our rising energy costs, to give better economic opportunities
for our citizens, to make longer and help your lives possible.
Speaker 11 (19:26):
Today.
Speaker 14 (19:26):
Today was not incremental, Brett, it was transformative.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
The project will partner researchers at each of the United
states seventeen national Laboratories, with businesses and academic research centers
to work on AI development and models.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Joining us now again.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
CEO at Expert Theory David Gartzenstein Ross, David, Good morning,
and what are your thoughts on this executive order by
President Donald Trump. Oh, we're having audio problems currently. I'm
going to figure this out. So we've got to figure
this out, and okay, we'll look into it.
Speaker 7 (20:06):
Right now.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I think you can hear me.
Speaker 11 (20:07):
Now, John, there we go, There we go, go on, there
we go. It's good to be heard. Good morning, John,
it's great to hear you and great to be heard.
Apologies for the short audio problems.
Speaker 5 (20:18):
But right maybe we'll tak Maybe we'll take care of
it via Trump's executive order.
Speaker 11 (20:23):
Maybe so, maybe so, but I believe that however, you're
one hundred percent human, so you can't. This is true guarantee,
dum uh so. Look, it's it's a significant executive order.
A lot will come of this, Obviously, a lot of
thinking about AI today, with a growing divide between President
(20:48):
Trump and his base on artificial intelligence. Trump is all
in on the Manhattan Project for AI, which has the
which has a very cool name, Genesis Mission.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, that's like, it's very inspiring name. I like it.
Speaker 11 (21:03):
And at the same time, you know, rising concerns about
the impact of AI and people's jobs, rising impact about
the impact or rise a concern about the impact of
AI on people's children. And in the big picture, I
think that there's very few strategic thinkers who have their
heads wrapped around AI and how this AI arms race
(21:27):
between the US and China plays out how you you know,
how you can contain the downside while capturing the upside.
These are all big, big questions that it seems like
there's very little good thinking about.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Yeah, let's a little bit of the order here. I
wanted to share with the audience. The Genesis Mission will
dramatically accelerate scientific discovery, strength and national security SCCUR, secure
energy dominance, enhance workforce productivity, and multiply the return on
taxpayer investment into research and development, thereby furthering America's technological
(22:03):
dominance and global strategic leadership, according to the order. Now
with that, David, unbeknownst to the listener, Bruce lets us
a talk back, and it's kind of along the same line.
So let's go ahead and get to the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 15 (22:19):
This is kind of an inside baseball thing, But it's
just wondering when Devide comes on Wall Street Journal ran
an article about a kind of a minority report guy
on AI saying that all this pursuit of a large
language model is the wrong way to go and that
need to support something called a world model instead. Just
wondering if he read the article and what he thought
of it, If he did are.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
You familiar with that at all?
Speaker 11 (22:41):
David Gartenstein Ross, I haven't read the Wall Street Journal article.
I do know different models of AI as I think
you know, John, Your listeners probably don't. I have been
working on AI in a variety of ways for around
a decade to working on actually building.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Up AI models.
Speaker 11 (23:01):
If you look go back to twenty seventeen, I was
working on a model to predict the prevalence of terrorist
attacks in certain geographies, and for that we used a
completely different model than the current large language models. That
was called recurrent neural networks or RNNs, which today is
regarded as a little bit of a backwater, but at
(23:21):
the time was very much cutting edge. What I'll say
is that there are other models that people will look
to and we'll say are better than large language models.
Right now, obviously there's a lot of movement forward with
large language models, So overall, I think that there certainly
are other models that should be used.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
But given all the breakthroughs in LMS.
Speaker 11 (23:46):
In answer to Bruce's question, I don't think it's right
to say that the focus on LMS is misplaced. It's
clear that there are breakthroughs here and that we're clearly
scratching the surface, and a generation down the road there
may be a model that we utilize that is either
better or that is combined with lms to make lms
even better, but we're not there today.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
Well, that was my next question would be, can you
in vision a scenario wherein we do not have all
of these separate large language models and basically we just
have one, you know, one AI large language model to
rule them all that well, that we all utilize, or
(24:29):
maybe you know, I guess maybe is a more akin
to like a Google where most people just use this
particular one so it becomes the dominant one among others.
But I'm curious, you know, there would be just one
AI model that everybody would be using.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
It's possible.
Speaker 11 (24:46):
So to to get back to Bruce's question, the person
of being quoted in the Wall Street Journal is named
yan Lukun. This is an AI engineer and the argument
being made and again like I only skimmed the article,
but the the argument that he makes is that there's
a more comprehensive model called a world model. It's not
about Lacuda is not arguing that there are better large
(25:10):
language models than our current lms, but that there is
a more comprehensive AI world model that we can use
which gives AI a more grounded and causal understanding with
the world as opposed to LMS, which understand the world
by understanding language. Ultimately, like, there's a lot of different
things that go into the world model versus the LM model.
(25:32):
But going back to what I was talking about before,
to illustrate the difference between one LM versus LMS in
opposition to a world model, what recurrent neural networks tried
to do through artificial intelligence is mimic the pathways that
the human brain takes, right Like, in other words, it
wasn't trying to model language. It was trying to model
(25:52):
out the brain, which is really interesting and it's a
little bit inconsistent with using an LM. They're just different
models for how the artificial intelligence thinks. And so I
think that's what lacun is talking about. That being said,
what I do think we could have in the future
is integration of different models for logic or how to
understand the world with large language models. In other words,
(26:13):
the large language model could I realized by the way,
this is like way over the technical for your show.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
So I apologize for that.
Speaker 11 (26:21):
But what we could have as a situation where the
large language model provides the ability to think, the ability
to chat, while you have another model, such as a
world model, which provides it the ability to understand. Lakum's
big problem and so probably we all have, is that
llms have some understanding of the world. I think they
do yield insight, and I would argue that they have
(26:41):
a kind of intelligence. But everyone could point to areas
where lms just get things wrong or where you have
to correct them multiple times before they start to finally
understand the world. That's kind of this deep dive into
the talkback that Bruce sent to you.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
So with Trump and his Manhattan project, the Genesis mission,
this is being widely reported. What's not getting covered very
widely is there's a potential for some risks going on here.
And I don't know how much stock I put into
this Washington Post report. We'll talk about it in just
a minute. But out of the Hill, there was also
another report where Trump was considering an executive order to
(27:20):
block state AI laws as the White House pushes for
a federal framework on the technology. Now, there could be
a possibility that the announcement of the Genesis Mission might
include this here. I haven't done my own deep dive
to find that out or not, but from the reporting
on the Hill, they say this order would direct Attorney
General Pambondi to establish a task force focused on challenging
(27:45):
state AI measures and seek to restrict some federal fundings
to states who pass laws that are deemed erroneous, according
to a draft obtained by The Hill and in the
story and it's well if it talks about how the
President and like minded Republicans have strongly opposed to state
proposals meant to address the technological and societal risks of AI,
(28:09):
particularly those that have been enacted by California Governor Gavin Newsom.
There's obviously a political component in all of this, but
just your overall thoughts on the federal government reaching out
to the states and saying we don't want you blocking
these potential in their mind safeguards relating to the advancement
of AI.
Speaker 11 (28:28):
Technology, it's super interesting. I don't have a problem with
the executive order. I think it you know, a lot
of it would come down to the implementation. But to
get back to the keyword here, it's it's onerous, right,
It's that the task force that the Attorney General would
set up, Pam BONDI would challenge state AI measures and
(28:51):
restrict some federal funding the states that pass laws that
are deemed onerous. When I look at that, and I
look at the kind of laws that they would challenge,
it's not some of the laws that and so both
you and I are looking at an article on this in
the Hill about Trump's proposed or the executive order that
he is considering. And one of the things that's raised
(29:12):
in this regard has been different state level bills that
seek to protect children, you know, AI toys for example.
There's a number of articles on this have been really
creepy with children speak.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah yeah, I mean spoiler alert.
Speaker 11 (29:32):
Do not yet your chilled child an AI toy for
Christmas if you have a you know, a child who's
between ages three and twelve. No, no, no, not a
good Christmas present. But you know, when we look at
laws that are designed to create child safety, I don't
think those are the kind of laws that will be challenged.
(29:53):
And I'd much rather see those laws addressed to the
federal framework anyway, rather than having disparate state laws. What
the Executive Order points to is something that has long
been true that when you have a regulatory framework with
multiple states and very different policies from each state, it
creates a system where it's almost impossible for an AI
(30:15):
company to exist in a national marketplace.
Speaker 7 (30:18):
Right.
Speaker 11 (30:18):
One of the things that we tend to see as
advantageous commercially is when you have a certain set of
standards that you have to satisfy to get into all
fifty states as markets. If all fifty states are different markets,
it's really hard for an AI company to do national business.
So overall, when we look at the importance of AI
as a commercial sector and.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
The AI arms race with China, I do think.
Speaker 11 (30:42):
That what Trump is moulling makes a lot of sense
to try to limit the number of disparate regulations that
commercial AI companies have to deal with at the state level.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Talking with David Gartenstein, Ross are AI analyst and experts,
I's the CEO at Expert Theory, and you kind of
answer my question on the subsequent article in the Washington
Post where there are some reports coming out of DC
that there is a rift between some Republicans and the
Trump administration over what we were just discussing. My question
(31:17):
to you, Davide was going to be, you know, are
we balancing between the technological advancements and the potential need
for safeguards? And if I'm hearing you correctly, it sounds
like that we are. It sounds like we're doing that,
especially when you keyed in on looking at the more
onerous aspects of what states are trying to do versus
making sure that we were not putting products out there
that are going to put our children at risk. It
(31:39):
seems like we've got a bit of a balanced approach,
even though there's conflict involved in how we're achieving that
balance well, or.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
To be clear, I'm not even argue that we have
a balanced approach.
Speaker 11 (31:50):
Just when it comes to that executive order to challenge
state laws that are too onerous, I think this is
something like that is helpful. I think that states have
the tendance two, you know, especially with this new frontier,
to create laws that can stifle innovation. When you look
at all fifty states and they're differing regulations that they
(32:13):
put into place with respective balance, that's a much larger question,
right Like we're the Trump administrations all in on AI.
There's a lot of downsides. You know, AI companies, policy makers,
others are really only getting their heads wrapped around what
the downsides of ar of AI are as. I think,
(32:34):
as you know, and so your listeners will recall I
testified before Congress on AI and it's used by terrorist
groups earlier this year. And you know, this is an
area where even policy makers who are really interested in
the issue set like the expertise at a policy making
(32:54):
level just doesn't really exist. If you look at who
is heading up the White Houses policies on AI, they're
AI business bend. They're going to fall on the pro
AI side of that divide. So, to be very clear,
I don't think we have balance. And how to get
balanced is a really interesting question. And it's one of
(33:16):
those where technology in this area has far outstripped our
ability to legislate or regulate or think through implications. And
it's moving really quickly. When we look back on this period,
we won't regard it as a balanced period.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
Well, and it's interesting you say that too, because as
we talk about the concerns that are growing among these
consumer advocacy groups and the children's toys being released, the
fact is these toys are being released and they're already
out there for children to go on access, so there
hasn't been the safeguards put in place yet in Devid.
Just as as an example, less on a children's toy,
(33:55):
even though it kind of is. I was watching a
video montage and I had never seen this before, but
it was a tiny almost look like a I guess
the best way I could describe it to be like
a Ferbie size the Ferbies, and it was it was
a little like AI, you know, friendly looking AI alien
and you walk up to it and it would recognize
(34:16):
that you're standing in front of it. It would say,
speak a phrase to me, and I will create a
song for you.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
I mean, the jokes right themselves.
Speaker 5 (34:24):
The video montage was various people that were going and
doing every single imaginable, ridiculous and offensive thing they possibly
could and getting every single one of these toys to
all go and create songs that are playing inside of
the store.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Now that's more on a comical level.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
But what we're talking about here are these AI embedded
toys that children can have like Teddy Bears, wherein they
find out how to light matches or explanations on adult activities,
and we don't have any regulations in place keeping these
toys from heading to market. It's one of the few
times where I actually agree with these advocacy groups and
getting out ahead warning parents, Hey, don't purchase these for
(35:00):
your for your kids because you simply don't know what
they're gonna have access to. Yeah, I mean, I know
a lot to unpack.
Speaker 11 (35:09):
No, it's I'm not even laughing at the question, right,
It's it's more just the utter idiocy of having these
AI toys. Right Like, you understand the thousand things that
are gonna go wrong, and the thousand like humans are
not by their nature, holy benign creatures. Right, tell me
(35:29):
a phrase and I'll make you a song. Yeah, everyone
understands where that's gonna go. Right, Like, at the end
of the day, even if you try to put safeguards
in place for like toys talking to children about explicit
sexually explicit topics, and that's one of the issues that
have come up with these toys, there's always a workaround, right,
Like AI is like in part large language models are
(35:51):
logic models, and if for most AIS, I haven't spent
time on like the Chinese large language models for a
variety of reasons, but like for most AIS. If you
ask about something and it says it can't go there,
and you keep talking, there's a workaround, right, Like, at
the end of the day, somebody who wants to talk
(36:11):
about with an AI about something is going to be
able to do so unless you are really, really good
and confident in your ability. Like the damage that AI
has done to children already, including you know people, you know,
kids are using AI as their therapist, as their best friend.
(36:35):
You know, there's been there's one case with a suicide
where like there are horrible things that character AI ended
up saying to this child, Like you know, it's just
the amount of harm already is off the charts, right,
And that's where we get back to that there's not balance,
Like I agree with with the federal government trying to
(36:58):
override and not have fifty different state regulatory frameworks. But
right now we're plunging ahead and there are you know,
AI is doing damage and that's gonna that's going to accelerate.
So we're at this point where everyone's reacting in various ways.
(37:19):
There's a strategy to accelerate AI. There is no real
strategy to deal with the harms, and that's where I
think that both President Trump has a point and his
base certainly has a point about how we're pledging ahead
and pledging ahead in a way that will help us business,
(37:39):
which I think is generally good. But man, these harms
are happening. Yeah, we need to deal with them.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
David Gartenstein, Ross, CEO at Expert Theory, as always, thank
you so much for the time this morning. Let's do
it again soon and I hope you and your family
all have a fantastic thing Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Thanks so much for coming on.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
This morning to be likewise, John, Happy Thanksgiving to you
and your listeners.
Speaker 10 (38:06):
Hey John, with DGR talking about LM's and RNMS, I
have only thinking about Good morning Vietnam and how we're
all going to end up in KP when the VP
shows up for his VIP.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
They got there, There we go.
Speaker 5 (38:26):
Thank you for the talkback from the iHeartRadio Radio app.
We'll get to more of those coming up on Twin
Cities News Talk, including revisiting in a few of those
comments rolled in that we'll get back to. Hegseth coining
a new nickname for the Democrats pushing for military insurrection.
Any Dinah moves ahead and unveils their proposed city ordinance
that would ban many firearms and certain gun magazines. Are
(38:49):
they poised for a lawsuit from the Minnesota gun Owner's Caucus.
I will tell you next on Twin Cities News Talk
AM eleven thirty and one oh three five FM.
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