Ben Goessling! - Bumper to Bumper 10/3/25 Hour Two

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Kfan welcomes Trans Siberian Orchestra for two amazing shows at
Target Center December twenty eighth at three pm and seven
thirty pm. Tickets on sale now. Get complete show details,
including a link to buy tickets. Kfa n dot com, keywrecounter.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Brash On Bryant Kfan text line is available at six
four six eight six. Lots of texts to get to.
We're going to include them in our conversation the rest
of the way. Ben Gestling is scheduled for four point
thirty and Leavel at five thirty this evening. The talkback
line is always available to you as well. A couple

(00:56):
leftover items regarding the Purple and their Sunday morning date
with Destiny as opposed to the Gophers date with Destiny
in Columbus, Ohio. That's a Saturday night game I have
in front of me. The National Football League QBR rankings.

(01:16):
This is ESPN thinks it has more accurate and a
more accurate measure of quarterback excellence than the traditional National
Football League sanctioned rating.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
The ESPN folks.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Have put together something called QBR.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
And the list is interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
The top ranked quarterback in all of football by QBR
is a former Viking named Danny Dimes. Daniel Jones is
at seventy nine point one. That's his QBR. That is
almost that's a point and a half ahead of Josh Allen,

(02:06):
who is number two. Ninth ranked quarterback National Football League QBR,
Sam Darnold, Seattle sixty five point nine for the record,

(02:26):
Blake Morrall, try to keep you interested in this segment
at least a little more than usual. Jordan Love is
ranked thirteenth currently in QBR, just ahead of the fast
rising Caleb Williams, and Williams is one ahead of Baker Mayfield.
Going a little bit further down the list, Carson Wentz

(02:49):
Minnesota Vikings is the twenty eighth ranked quarterback in QBR.
So if I'm reading this right, and by the way,
let me find Aaron Rodgers for the record is twenty
two So if I have this right, one, two, three, yeah, Actually, well,

(03:15):
technically four former Vikings quarterbacks or quarterbacks who might have
joined the team are all ranked higher than the current
Vikings quarterback Carson Wentz.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
And for the record, JJ McCarthy.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
His QBR rating is one and a half points worse
than the quarterback currently ranked dead last thirty two cam
Ward cam Ward's twenty two point eight. JJ McCarthy's twenty
one point two. By the way, Joe Flacco just demoted

(04:02):
by the Cleveland Browns is second to last in QBR rating.
I said this yesterday and I stand by it. There's
a lot of season yet to go. I get that,
but this whole season is going to be a very
unique referendum on the Vikings quarterback situation because they had

(04:28):
they had they, I mean, they were rich with options
coming off last season, at least on paper right now.
Some of the options might not have been as practical
as others. But there was the JJ McCarthy option, which
they obviously took and believed in. There was the Danny
Dimes option. They allegedly offered him more money than he

(04:51):
ended up taking within Indianapolis, but he probably realized the
wheels were greased that JJ was going to be the starter,
better chance to get the winning win the j in Indianapolis,
and he's already been vindicated in that regard. Sam Darnald
aren't coming from a year ago off to a very
good start with Seattle. We're sitting three and zero and

(05:14):
Aaron Rodgers, who looked really good in a sort of
controlled passing environment last week. But what did he do
against the Vikings in Dublin? Made the right read, got
rid of the ball quick, negated whatever ideas that b
Flow had about pressuring him at the line of scrimmage, which,

(05:36):
by the way, the Vikings had done swimmingly when Rodgers.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
Was with the Jets a year ago.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Right and so right now, all three of those other options, Donald,
Dimes and Rogers looked better measured against JJ McCarthy's start
of the year. And fair or unfair, that's going to
be the game this whole season. It can get taken

(06:06):
care of. If McCarthy emerges, it won't matter, right, But
if he doesn't, you're going to hear it.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
And it's all fair. I think it's as.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
We talked about Sean Salisbury yesterday. That's the way this
thing indeed works. Now we know Wentz is starting on Sunday,
and my well, I won't say I am certain that
he will start against the Eagles. I think it's possible
that Wentz starts again even after the bye. But I

(06:38):
said this a few weeks ago. These things have a
way of taking care of themselves. If Wentz plays great,
I think it's actually more likely he'll play and the
Vikings win. If the Vikings win and he's mediocre, probably
opens the door to a quick return for JJ McCarthy.
All the variables I think will be taken under consideration here,
and it may well depend and not It should depend

(07:03):
not just on whether the Vikings win, but as I said,
how Wentz plays.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
Put this way. If Wentz plays is up and down.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
As he did last week, I think it becomes a
little easier to go come back with McCarthy. The question
is whether you're going to want to come back with
McCarthy if your offensive line is still bent or damaged
or injured or screwed up.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
That's the other X factor to consider.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
Trial ref Guy was a trail ref Guy should say
was listening to our first couple of segments, which I
think we're basically themed. You know, go play win the game,
because I thought we've reached a point of critical mass
when it comes to the fear and loathing about what
challenges the Vikings face on Sunday morning. The crippled offensive line,

(07:52):
crippled linebacker corps, the fact that the Browns have one
of the best defenses in football, and my basic cremise
was I understand not having a great deal of confidence
in the club right now, but at some point you're
either good enough you're not. And I don't have a
lot of sympathy for the Vikings and their injuries because

(08:14):
of how they played around with even their first home
game against the Atlanta Falcons. And I'm not gonna believe
that that's all injury related what took place in that game,
any more than the head coaches accepting it. At this point,
regarding the myriad penalties that we have committed, people are acting. Look,
it's coming perilously close to the notion that if the

(08:37):
Vikings beat the Browns on Sunday, it will be one
of the great upsets in the history of the National
Football League. And as trailer ref Guy points out or
reminds us and we, I guess we have confirmation based
on our last prediction segment. The Vikings are three and
a half point favorites. They're supposed to win the game.
That's not act like this would be a miracle. Go

(08:57):
play like they're capable of and win like they're supposed to.
It's not that difficult. Well, it shouldn't be. And I'll
say again, if it is, then you're not what you
thought you were, at least not at this particular juncture
in the still relatively young season, but about to become
more than young season. Five games in, we're, you know,
approaching the one third mark, and we've all, i think

(09:20):
agreed that the first five games were the most inviting
section of the entire schedule. You come out of that
two and three, it's hard to believe that you're a
very good team. But again, to pretend that we are
the only team that's ever had its offensive line crippled,

(09:42):
I mean, there are teams with crippled offensive lines that
still find a way to win. Believe it or not,
they do and sooner or later, you do it or
you don't. And so let's again stop pretending that this
should be too much to ask. That's what I'm almost
what I'm hearing from people. That's too much to ask.
I mean, if that's true, then you're not close to
what you thought you were.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
I don't care who you have out.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
And I'll say again, we faced several teams with significant injuries,
and no one cares about whatever those situations are. For
the other team, Nor should anybody care about the current
predicament of your club. And if you, by the way,
take care of business. For example, in the Atlanta game,

(10:22):
you're okay here. If you start the game earlier against Pittsburgh,
even with the offensive line issues, if your defense comes,
you know, prepared to play, then you've given yourself more
margin for error. So to put this all on, what
are you gonna do just one of those years? That's

(10:43):
way too easy. That's letting the club, I would say
off the hook too easily. And I even think koc,
even though he's apparently battling with the Jackals these days,
would agree to that as well.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
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Speaker 2 (11:04):
Didn't the Niners just win without their starting quarterback and
without their two best receivers? Just you gotta buck up
at some point and win a damn game.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
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Speaker 2 (12:01):
What has the Minnesota Timberwolves karma already been shattered before
they have played a single preseason game, let alone regular

(12:25):
season game?

Speaker 3 (12:25):
Is it over for your Minnesota Timberwolves?

Speaker 2 (12:30):
That is the question on the table in the wake
of a startling development today at one Male Clinic Square.
Do you know who stopped by to visit during Timberwolves workout?
Don't The oppressor? Tom Thibodeaux was there. He was even

(12:57):
seen chatting with Dante Di Vincenzo and Julius Randall. Now,
what are the chances that whatever chemistry we've developed, whatever
good karma we have going, could survive the return to
Minnesota of the oppressor? Most recently? It's funny how things work.

(13:22):
The New York Knickerbockers had their best season in two decades,
got to the conference finals, and his reward, Tibbs reward,
was his dismissal. So now he's bored, got nothing to do.
So what he does is he just goes from camp
to camp. In fact, I think last week or earlier

(13:44):
this week, he was out West hanging out with the Warriors. No,
it might have been the Clippers, maybe both, because this
is what he does when TIBs gets fired. He did
this when the Wolves got rid of him. He's got
nothing else going, you know, He's it's just basketball is
his life. So he just visits people he knows and

(14:04):
hangs out of various camps. And he was at our
camp today. I'm shocked we didn't bar him, knowing what
bad karma he brought. Remember how bad? Remember do you
remember the demonization of Tibbs on his way out the door.
He was the root of all of our evils all.
It wasn't just that he engineered a big trade that ultimately,

(14:29):
you know, blew up in their faces, the Jimmy Butler deal.
It was his karma was off. Nobody had any fun,
nobody liked playing with them, nobody liked playing for him.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
Remember there were.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Accusations that he was throwing computer terminals through windows. It
was just, I mean, it got to the point where
stuff that happened before he even coached here, he was
being held responsible for it got that ridiculous here.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
Everything was his fault.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Everybody was terrified by nobody could have any fun with him.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
And we bring him here back when we didn't have to.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
So I hope when we look back on the twenty
twenty five twenty six Wolves season, we don't trace our difficulties.
Our struggles are unexpected challenges to not barring him at
the one Male Clinic square door.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
That's all I'm gonna ask, That's all'm gonna say.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
My question is what is worse Tibbs sitting in on
Wolves training camp or if Mike Zimmer sit in on
that JJ McCarthy workout.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
I mean, that's right up there.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
It's very similar, one hundred percent right, that's very very true. Well,
like we said this week, we apparently we saw it coming.
I've described this week as the Zimmerization of Koc with
the comments he made to Pa, very impatient comments about
the penalty mistakes.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
What are we doing?

Speaker 2 (16:02):
How does this happen? No excuse for it? And then
we come to find out he's warring with the media.
Jackals over there, unhappy with some things that have been written.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Shut down, the locker.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Room closed, it apparently to the jackals today is what
we have been told as well. So we'll see if
I'm hoping that the wolves have enough going that they
can indeed rise above it. We've talked about this that
I mean here the one exception to the rule.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
The rule is.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Generally on the way out the door, when a manager
gets fired, or a coach gets fired, or a general
manager president of the operation gets fired, if they're not popular,
then the piling on is endless, right, It's it's well,

(16:55):
now he's out the door. Now we can really say
what we think, and we can maybe even go with
some stories that we did know how accurate they were,
but what the hell's the difference at this point, Let's
just go with it because that's.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
What everybody wants to hear.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
And so individuals who might have you know, not done
their jobs great end up getting blamed for stuff that
had nothing to do with them as well. It's just like,
that's the guy that's leaving, so let's blame every thing
on him. It's human nature, and it happens in the
sports business all the time. Here's the exception. The exception
is the guy who got dismissed earlier.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
This week. Rocco.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
Now there are Roco haters they text me every week
during the baseball season, but generally because in this case,
ownership is much more despised than Roco, at least in
terms of the numbers, the number of people who feel
that way. He's not being demonized on his way out

(17:49):
the door. In fact, there's a lot of people being
sympathetic to him, like, this is Roco. You don't even
know this yet, but this is the this is the worst.
I mean, this is the best for you, because this
is the worst situation for any manager, right and so
they actually did you a favor freeing you from this madness.

(18:12):
But he's the guy who's not getting piled on anywhere
near as much as most coaches or managers tend to.
As a result, by the way, a couple of people
are saying that we were we're on the road. In fact,
we have our first preseason game in San Diego, so
that's where the Wolves were practicing, and that's where Tibbs
visited the Wolves practice. That's a distinction with a lot

(18:36):
of difference.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
To me, you could.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
Say better than Mayo clinic square, because then you don't
have to rebless that facility. Once he leaves, it's not
our home facility, but as still he's still there polluting
our players.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
He's still around our players.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
So bad Karma's bad karma, whether it's San Diego or
in Minnesota as well. He visited the team exactly, it
doesn't matter where it took place. The Timbers allowed the
oppressor to hang out with the current roster. And we've
been told over and over again, Man, can't I just

(19:12):
I'll never forget it, just some of the conspiracy theories
that were spun out about just how evil he was.
He was so evil, like I said, as he led
the Knicks to their best season in decades, and the
rest is kind of history. Now, Ben Gesling, you might
think would still be across the pond with the Vikings.

(19:32):
Turns out no, he was across the pond for the
Dublin game. He's now back. He'll explain why he split
the difference and also his own views on the big
Sunday Morning the game between the Vikings and the Cleveland Browns. Again,
I'm sure an injury update from him will see if
he buys my accepts my theory of sometimes, no matter

(19:54):
what the situation is, you just got to go win
a damn game and whether he indeed is confidence that
the Vikings can take care of business, even if it's
a close game as most expect, or a low scoring
game as everybody expects. He's in fourteen minutes, and of
course lovel will join and will name the new Twins
manager at about five thirty. Stay tuned, Man, Country's Outlaws

(20:17):
coming to Minneapolis. Don't mix, Eric church Livak, Grand Casino Arena,
February seventh. The Chief brings the fire and you don't
want to miss it. Take us on sale now, Giffle details,
kfan dot Com.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Keyer calendar.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Randy Moss said it a long time ago, man, he
was right. Some people just can't handle the truth. They
just they get triggered by it. They just can't accept it.
They can't deal with it. They don't want to be
reminded of it, and so they make stuff up as
they go along, as is the case of several textures

(20:52):
as we speak, but we'll leave the textures aside for
the moment. Lavelle will join at about five thirty this evening.
Ben Gesling is joining us now via the Kinectical Water
Systems Hotline brought to you by our good friends at
Standard Heating and Air. So I get you probably told
me this and I wasn't listening, as I occasionally forget

(21:14):
to do. You're back, so you never were going to
cover both games across the pond. You are back in
the continental United States?

Speaker 3 (21:23):
Correct?

Speaker 4 (21:24):
That is correct? I am. I did Dublin and came
back to the US. Was planning to come back to
the US the day after the game, but my connecting
flight from Dublin to Amsterdam was delayed by about four hours,
and I think I was on a flight with like
seventy Vikings fans and then a couple of team officials
as well that we all got delayed to the point

(21:45):
where the connection miss and then it's kind of choose
your own adventure after that. So I had an extra
night in Amsterdam, where I had never been, so figured
out how to get myself downtown and rented a bicycle
and did the whole bike around Amsterdam thing for a
couple hours and made the best of it and then
came home Tuesday. We were on a kind of a
running back by committee beat writer by committee planned for
this one. Andrew Kramer is doing a London Dutch and

(22:06):
Jim Suhanna is over there as well, but yes I'm
back in the US.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
So describe for me the symbolism and the message you
were attempting to deliver in the photo you you tweeted
out after this era, after this airline mishap, we shall say,
this scheduling disaster. What was the scene in the Netherlands
that you showed and was that your bike that you

(22:30):
had rented?

Speaker 4 (22:32):
Yes, that was the bike I had rented. I figured
out there, you know, there's like the rent by the hour,
get it with your bluetooth, scanned the QR code, like
the scooters you'd get anywhere else. Found one of those,
and I was at the Rix Museum. I'm sure I'm
mispronouncing that, but the famous museum you see all the
postcards of in Amsterdam. So it was trying to be artsy,

(22:52):
lined the bike up and then basically made it so
that that would stand against that lamp post and could
get the museum in the background. I just biked around
to get a feel for the city, you know, all
the museums obviously were closed, but kind of saw a
lot of the postcard sites and got a feel for
what it was like to bike around Amsterdam, and I
mean anybody that's been there knows this that bikes are

(23:14):
like basically cars, and then there's bike lanes everywhere, and
you see bike traffic just about everywhere. So it was
fun to get a little experience of that. But yeah,
it was my attempt to be a little bit artsy
with it. But yeah, it had been one of those
days where between the delay and then trying to get
things rescheduled and on the phone with six or seven
different customer service people, it seemed like and is the

(23:35):
flight going to get held? Is it not? What do
we do? Yeah, it was quite a long day trying
to get back, but you know, you try to just
make the best of it and have some fun with
the layot wor because there's really nothing else you can
do other than just accept it and roll with it.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
I'm going to try my working theory on you regarding
the Vikings in their game on Sunday, a Sunday morning,
of course, eight thirty opening kickoffs, six thirty pregame show
right here on the fan, and there will not be
a five am Sunday sermons. As much as I'm attempted
to do it, I don't think I'm going to here's what.
Let me back up. I think I'd have to reconsider

(24:12):
my position. If Minnesota University of Minnesota, your University of Minnesota,
the football team goes to Columbus and shocks the world
and beats the Buckeyes for the first time in twenty
five years, then I guess then I would probably have
to do a Sunday sermons at five am. But that's
going to take a lot. Maybe that'll be my pledge.

(24:34):
Now my Vikings theory, I understand the fear and loathing.
You were there for the Pittsburgh game. They did not
play very well. We've heard, I thought during the week
a crankier, more direct, almost zimmerized version of the head
coach when it comes to calling out individual breakdowns in

(24:55):
terms of the penalties. That to me tells me he's frustrated,
like in a big time way. And we know, and
you've laid it out beautifully, You've chronicled all their offensive
line issues. But there's a part of me that says,
sooner or later, you just got to go win a game.
The idea, I mean, the odds, the folks who put

(25:15):
the odds together. Still the vikings favored by three and
a half, no matter what burdens that we're dealing with here,
and so at some point, even if it means rising
up or somebody doing something better than they're capable of doing.
It is the Cleveland Browns that you're playing, and I
think you either you're either good enough to get to
get a victory. I guess steal a victory if you
want to call it that, even though we're favored, or

(25:36):
you're not. And sometimes that's just kind of what you
have to do.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
Yeah, I think that's all correct. I think the fact
that they are I think they're favored by a half
point more than they were last week, and they're getting
a rookie quarterback who has no rookie quarterback has beaten
the Vikings while Brian Flores, it's been the defensive coordinator.
That is the reason offensive line war and all that.
I take them to win this game because I think

(26:03):
that group is in a strong enough position even with
Andrew van Ginkel out. I think that group can carry
this defense through. And you have to find ways to
win games like this because the schedule, we all know
what it looks like after the buye and I think
there was a hope that you could be a little
more productive than they've been able to be with this

(26:25):
first stretch. But these are the types of games that
if you want to be in it at the end
and have this thing go or they hoped it could,
or at least be in the mixt to make the
playoffs and then see what happens after that, you have
to beat some of these teams. I mean, this is
not a game that should be beyond their reach. Even
with the offensive line issues and trying to figure out

(26:45):
how to block Miles Garrett. They have Christian darras aw back,
there are other people to deal with on that line,
and it's going to be a tough defensive assignment. But
it's also going to be tough for the Browns to
try to move the ball on this defense and deal
with all the different pressures that Brian Flores is going
to row at them. So I think this is one
where whether it's the defense getting the play that turns

(27:07):
things around or Carson Wentz just making enough things happen
for them to strain a couple of drives together, this
is one that I think, Yeah, I think it's totally
fair to say they need to win it and it's
one that if they're going to go anywhere they probably
need to have.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
They probably do to come back here two three with
a buy. And again, you know.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
We've seen it. It's not like they couldn't beat the Eagles.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
The Eagles are good, but you're at home and we
see weirdness take place every week in the National Football League,
but obviously not put them in a very tenable position now.
I also mentioned earlier in the show that my sources
say that there may be the first media battle brewing
between the head coach and you, Jackals, and you're back here,

(27:51):
so I can't really blame you, I don't think for this.
But I was told there was great angst from the
head coach regarding the Jim Suhan column today, which I
wasn't all that. I didn't really think was all that controversial.
The column, for those who missed it, played out the
conspiracy theory that I think you and I have talked

(28:13):
about on air, that is it possible that you know
that some fans believe that perhaps JJ's not that injured
and that he was quote unquote benched and they're using
the injury to kind of protect him. Now, I believe
su Han tended to dismiss that as being likely that
the coach would do it. But I'm being told the

(28:35):
coach did not like that piece, or did not like
that aspect of it, didn't like some comments about well
sometimes KOC speaks in his words salad sentences which we've
all i think said or written from time to time
as well, and that the Jackals didn't have access or
as much access to the players in the locker room

(28:55):
today earlier today than they have in the past. Could
this be the first zimmerized brawl media related between KOC
and you guys, the media Jackals.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
Yeah, I don't have all of the details of everything
that happened, but yeah, I think there there's been some
tension over there. I think that's accurate to say. And
this whole idea of is this a quote unquote soft
benching or is he actually injured? I mean that has
been something that the head coach is not enjoying very much. So,
I mean, I think Jim's column today was saying, Okay,

(29:29):
everybody's talking about this, let's address it right, and then
I think it ended basically saying I believe the team
that they're an injury and I've said it there is
an injury here that he's dealing with. I think that's
completely true. So I think some of it is this
when this keeps coming up and the questions keep coming up,
it's a little bit of the well, why are you
guys still asking about this when I've said that there

(29:52):
is an injury and that this is the timetable love
it and he's told us to detail what it is
and all of those things. And I think some of
it is we keep hearing from fans and there was
I think more of it today on social media just
about well this is obviously, you know, them trying to
hide McCarthy behind this injury that they're claiming he has.
So I mean there's a lot of this chatter, and

(30:13):
then it's always the question of do you address it
or is addressing it just giving more oxygen to something
that he isn't worth giving attention to in the first place.
So I think it's always that debate about these things.
And yes, I think the notion that there is a
soft benching is not true, and I think the fact

(30:34):
that it keeps coming up is. Yeah, I think it's
fair to say that the head coach is not enjoying
that exchange continuing to.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Happen, and I think that may speak to the larger
issue that he's feeling it a little bit. You know,
his comments earlier in the week to PA and I
think to you guys as a group, and I don't
know if you were still there by that point where
he's he's again talking about some of the penalties that
negated drives. There was a reception that you aj May

(31:01):
was gonna be first and goal at the seven. It
was the first drive and that got nullified by illegal
man downfield, and ultimately on that drive, the Vikings had
to settle for three. If you'll recall he brought that up.
I think he brought up the Darrisaw false start, and
he got pretty specific about how does this happen? You know,
this can't be happening more frontal than we have heard

(31:22):
him before. So I think, you know, again, I'm not
saying he's about to curl up in the fetal position,
but I think maybe all this indicates he's feeling it
a little bit more a little bit cranky, and maybe
he understands what's at stake this week that if they
come back two and three, it's going to be an
uphill climb.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (31:40):
I mean if you're two and three and you look
at its Eagles at Chargers, at Lions, Ravens after the bye,
and then there's a Packers in there a couple of
weeks after all of that, so it is going to
be really tough. And then it's that question of when
do you put JJ McCarthy back in he's healthy enough
to go, do you do it against the Eagles? I

(32:01):
mean all of the and I know people are going
to hear that and say, well, you just said it's
an injury and it's not a soft benching. That's true,
But I think there's also a thing of how do
you set him up for success? Because I do think
exactly the point of this season still needs to be
figuring out what you have in JJ McCarthy, Because I
don't care if they go ten and seven, seven and ten,

(32:22):
eleven and six, six and eleven with Carson Wentz. If
you're still doing this year to year quarterback thing, right,
you're not in any better spot than you want to
than you were last year. And that's not where they
want to be long term. It's not why they picked
JJ McCarthy. So I think the point of where you
put him back in and give him the best chance
to have a long runway of success here. That is

(32:45):
a question. But I don't think that this injury is
in I think the injury is true. I think the
injury is you're trying to figure out how do you
put him back on the field to make sure his mechanics,
his footwork, all of those things are sturdy enough that
he's able to do the job consistently, especially when he's
had a hard time just being protected. I mean, they'll

(33:06):
have Christian Darisaw if he's, you know, barring another injury,
they'll have Christen Darasaw when McCarthy gets back, which he
hasn't had yet. But with all these offensive line changes,
you want a quarterback who's able to stan on his
own two feet, deliver, protect himself. All of those kinds
of things go into it as well. So wherever you're
doing that, if you're doing it coming out two and

(33:26):
three out of the buy, it just makes it a
lot harder. I think it's hard to build much momentum
if you've lost three of four into that stretch and
you've gone on this grueling trip internationally and you're trying
to just kind of keep everybody's morale up. I mean,
a win this weekend I think is awfully important for them.

(33:47):
And I also think, I mean, the NFL is not
going to say this, but I have to imagine the
NFL would not mind them winning because when they get
asked by other teams in the future, hey, what did
you guys think of doing this for the first time. Yeah,
they'll probably want the Vikings to get a little better
endorsement of it than they might if it was well,
we went on too and we lost our center, we

(34:07):
lost our right tackle, and we had to do all
these different things and it was kind of chaotic, and
we didn't win a game in the process. So I
think for all of those reasons, this is a pretty
big one for the Vikings.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
On Sunday, Ben gesling adjoins us every Friday. He's with
us now, brought to you by Standard Heating and Air Conditioning.
What I think is conceivable is that the Vikings and
Koc might be relieved that he is injured to a
point where he's not able to practice, not able to
get into groove. As long as this offensive line is

(34:39):
as much in flux as it is. I don't think
that's crazy. I think that's very, very possible. Even if,
as you said, sooner or later, if you believe in
him as much as you say you have, you got
to throw him out there against whoever, right including the
Philadelphia Eagles after the buye because you've decided, no, we
know what we're talking about regarding the position, but as

(35:00):
the line gets more and more vulnerable, to the point
where basically you've got what three backups playing, including a
guy at center who's never played the position, then I
wouldn't be at all shocked that they said, well, he
actually it's probably better that he sits through this, and
we kind of, for want of a better cliche, throw

(35:21):
Carson Wentz our backup quarterback to the Wolves.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
If we have to throw anybody to the Wolves.

Speaker 4 (35:26):
Yeah, I think that's right. And if you look at
the way this could go after the buy I would
expect they'll probably have Donovan Jackson back at left guard.
They may have Brian O'Neill back at right tackle. We'll
see how that goes with the mcl Will Fries has
been healthy, Christian Darisaw will continue to get healthier. Ryan
Kelly is the question with all the concussions and that's
a larger question that I think. I wouldn't expect that

(35:49):
they're going to be in a rush for that, And
it will also be a discussion of what is he
comfortable with, what is it family comfortable with. I think
all of those things get a lot bigger when you're
talking about these number of concussions. But at the very
least they will be in a better position coming out
of the buy health wise on the offensive line then
they probably have been in a while. And the center
question is a big one, especially with McCarthy is still

(36:12):
only play two games in the NFL. But having Darisaw
back with Donovan Jackson, I think does make things quite
a bit easier. So yeah, I think there is I
think it's a valid thought that if he comes back
after the buye and this offensive line is healthier and
sturdier than it is right now, that's probably a better
situation for him because we have seen it those first

(36:33):
couple of games where he's trying to read things through
and then it's pressure coming and you're trying to figure
out how much do I need to speed up my clock?
Can I stand in here? When you have a left
tackle of Christian Daroso's caliber on your blind side again,
I think that makes everything a little easier to say,
I can hang in here, the pockets clean, I can
read this out and make my throw. So all of
that is helpful for his development, and I think it's

(36:56):
completely valid to say that that would be a preferable
situation to what he walk into.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
Right now, let's talk a little bit about the defense.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
There was fairly pointed commentary from the b flow, the
defensive coordinator, saying, look, we can talk about takeaways and
fancy stuff and all that. We got to go back
to just being more fundamentally sound. We got to do
the basic stuff, the meat and potato stuff better. And
I'm assuming, among other things, he's referring to stopping the run,

(37:23):
which the Vikings did quite nicely in the Cincinnati game.
But in between Atlanta they got shredded against a backup
running back. They got shredded I think in the second
half of ninety four yards rushing by one runner alone.
So is there is it too much to ask that
this defense be more fundamentally sound as long as Cashman

(37:46):
and gink are still out, I know they matter, But
what do you think is going on with the defense
right now.

Speaker 4 (37:54):
I think they need to be better tackling and better
against the run. I think that is something we've seen
come up over the last couple of weeks, those Javon Hargrave,
Jonathan Allen, that new look defensive interior has gotten gashed
on some things in a run game, and we saw
it last week. There were a number of moments where
Kenneth Gamwell got a few extra yards. Some of that

(38:16):
was after contact, some of that was just sucond effort stuff,
but he did have enough success to help the Steelers
sustained drives and give them chances to score points, kept
the Vikings ultimately just a little too far out of reach,
or kept them out of reach for the Vikings, I
should say so. I think they have to be better
at whether it's gap integrity, whether it's tackling, whether it's

(38:38):
winning one on one matchups, all of that stuff. When
Brian Flores talks about fundamentals, and I think that's what
we're talking about, is do you know, play your assignment,
play your technique, close things off and wrap up when
you have opportunities to do it. We have seen enough
times where that hasn't happened that you're not putting people
in the stressful situations that they want so that they

(38:58):
can come after those quarters. And I think you're going
to see it again on Sunday. The Browns are going
to lean on Quinchin Judgskins and try to probably string
out the game and make it so that the Vikings
don't have the ball as much and just make it
a little easier for Dylan Gabriel. I think that will
be very much part of their plan to support him,
and the Vikings have to be able to stop it.

(39:20):
And I think a lot of that is just fundamental
football in terms of closing off gaps and winning blocks,
defeating blocks, and making tackles. It's nothing fancy, but if
they don't have that intact, it's harder to do the
things they want to do in passing situation.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Now, let's finish up with a depth question, because I
think it's one of the interesting debate points. I've heard
some people say, look what's going on in the Vikings
offensive line.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
There's no team.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
There are very few teams that can withstand losing that
many that the idea that there are a number of
teams that have great depth evovently on their starters along
in the line of scrimmage, but especially the offensive line,
is foolhardy. In fact, Sean Salisbury is of the opinion that,
in general, he thinks there are some significant depth issues,

(40:10):
especially at that position all over the league. The other
side of it is no, no, Actually, there are some
teams that do a better job of having backup strength
so that even if it's not as good as their starters,
they're not going to fall off the end of the
earth in terms of protection. So what's fair regarding what
looks to be like not much professional depth for the

(40:31):
vikings along the offensive line.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
I think I would say this, there is a general
shortage of NFL ready lineman because of the way college
football gets played. And I'm sure Sean got into some
of this where yep, the spread offenses and it's the
I'm going to make one read and get the ball
out of my hand in less than two seconds. You're
not asking lineman to protect for long enough that a
quarterback would need to make a full field read or

(40:55):
downfield concepts that are a seven step drop. It's just
not played that way in college football very much. The
linemen aren't being trained that way, which means when you're
developing them, you have a whole new set of things
to teach them. And then when you're scouting them, there
aren't as many that you can map what they did
in college directly into the NFL. So it is harder,
I think, in general, to find those players. And you've

(41:16):
heard that lament from coaches and scouts and front office
people around the league for a long time. But it
makes it important to have the depth because you just
if you have it, you're going to be one of
the few teams that does, I think, and you've seen
the Eagles do this really well. I think the Lions
in general have done this pretty well over the years,

(41:37):
where they've continued to find guys and develop them, and
they've they've hit on some picks that make it so
that you can stay in that spot for eight or
nine years and you don't have to think about it
as much. But that job of drafting and developing linement
is harder than it used to be. But I think
it's all the more reason to say if we can
kind of, you know, put a stake in the ground

(42:00):
here at this spot and be one of the teams
with an advantage one to not just one to five,
maybe one to eight on the offensive line. We're going
to be at a big advantage from a lot of
the teams that we see because it's just it is
a hard thing to have, and we see how important
it is over and over and over, and you know,
I think that's it's one thing I'm interested in this draft.

(42:22):
As they come up to it, they're like, they're going
to have ten picks, and they're going to have more
top one hundred picks than that had in the last
couple of years, And how many of those go toward
an offensive lineman that may be a little bit of
a project, but they say, he's got some traits that
we like, we can coach him up, we can develop this,
And it's important to have depth beyond just those first five,
especially as you're going to have questions with Ryan Kelly

(42:43):
in the future. Brian O'Neil turns thirty, he's going to
have a big number on his contract. I mean, that's
a spot that needs continued reinforcement and investment. And I
think the issues you see and the fact that there
are teams like the Eagles that have been successful over
and over and over in part because of their offensive
lines only underscores the need to invest in that spot.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
One other offensive question, actually, as it comes into my head,
can we or should we throw short more often the
way it seems Aaron Rodgers did for Pittsburgh a week ago,
or the offense is just so different that that doesn't
necessarily compute well.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
I think there are opportunities to do it, and you
did see Carson Wentz have some opportunities last week where
he was throwing quicker game stuff, and certainly that happened
in the Bengals game. I think you'll see some of
that on Sunday, especially as they're trying to figure out
how to keep Miles Garrett from doing what he does
in wrecking the game. Possibly, but there are I think
it is different in the sense that this is an

(43:47):
offense that likes to push the ball downfield. They like
to look for chunks, and there are a lot of
times those plays need a little longer to develop, which
means you need a little more protection. But I think
having some of the quick game stuff, having concepts that
get the ball out of Carson Wentz's hand quickly are
going to be important for the Vikings on Sunday because
this is not an easy front to deal with. Miles

(44:09):
Garrett is as good as they come. I think he's
had at least fourteen sacks each of the last four years.
And then Mason Grant, the first round pick, is in there,
and they've got a number of guys ma Leie Collins
that are going to be difficult for them to deal with.
I think some of the quick game stuff, if you
can do it, it takes timing, it takes coordination with receivers,
but Jordan Addison should help there as well. I think

(44:30):
having some of those options will probably see Savior Scott
involved in some of those things too. I think it's
important for them to hit on a little more of
it than they have, and I'm curious with screens if
that becomes part of it, is Scott gets a little
more involved, kind of playing the Aaron Jones role. I
think there are some things they can hit there, and
it will be interesting to see if they can do
more of it than they have. At least in the
last couple of weeks. They've had some of those concepts,

(44:50):
but they need to hit them more than they have.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
Excellent work.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Welcome back to the United States of America and we
will chat next week.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
All right, sounds good.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Thanks Sam, Ben gestling by Standard Heating and air Conditioning
back from across the pond. He is taking this game off,
but I'm sure he'll be watching or listening. On Sunday morning,
All the action begins with the pregame show right here
on the fan on the Vikings Audio Network, beginning at
six point thirty.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
Top five will

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Include NFL News, preseason talkers, and the Gophers date with Destiny.