October 24, 2025 • 41 mins
Bumper to Bumper with Dan Barreiro!
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey Rubs.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
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Speaker 3 (00:24):
Dan, You've always hated the Gophers. You see my edge, Dan,
from a concerned Gopher. I'm concerned for the Brochmer people
and Gopher fans who have basically decided to invest everything
in this one belief. And as I said before, it's human.
He's an easy player to root for. He is undrafted,
(00:47):
he wasn't supposed to even reach this level. All of
that's true. I couldn't have been more complimentary of him
last year when he played, couldn't have been and was
extremely complimentary of what we'd heard about out of him
from training camp. That's not exactly being negative about a Gopher.
(01:07):
I'm just looking for a little bit of rationality here,
taking a little bit of the emotion out of it,
which I don't think we're unfortunately seeing all that much of.
Let's get to another Vikings talking point, you know, Let's
go to maybe this will unify us and calm everybody down,
(01:30):
Let's get to I think an area I'm hoping that
we can all agree on.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
This talking point is called the run defense. That it wasn't.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Second and ten Wentz comes out of the shotgun. He's
going to give it to showtime. Aaron Jones right up
the middle and Derwin j play action for Justin again.
He's back to pass, but you can run and there
he goes, heads out to his left to the twenty
(02:02):
five to twenty, gets to the fifteen. Justin Herbert scampers
out of bounds at the thirteen yard line. That is
a run of eighteen yards for Justin and another first
down for him. Bolts empty backfield for Justin Herbert. Six
year from Oregon Vikings rush four. Herbert steps up the middle,
(02:24):
pedal to the medal thirty five, forty hangles to the
right to the fifty blake cashman finally brings him down
at a forty nine. It's a seventeen yard run for
Justin Herbert. I don't know if people were listening about
ten minutes ago, Ben Leeber could not have laid out
any better. Justin Herbert's running nobility and how he sees
(02:45):
it and what he does with it, because that's exactly
what he just did. Justin Herbert, who takes the snap,
hands into the doll and he scoops up the middle
between the hash marks. For a game of five, make
it seven second in Courcus forty for the Charger.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
Yeah, if you're gonna go out unfortunately this is the
position for the Vikings defense. You're gonna go out and
give up five to seven yards per rush. The Chargers
with harball will just keep running the football. I mean
they don't. I don't think they're gonna want to put
it the ball at risk at all. They've come out
with some bigger personnel and they're just gonna keep running it.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Second and three offset I right behind Herbert, who goes
under center, puts Asid in the second in motion to
the left hand off the doll. Plenty of room up
the middle as he darts to the left across their
series gets to the forty five. Then he's finally hit
and stopped at about the forty eight. Effortless run of
eight maybe nine yards. Not by the day, not by
(03:39):
Chuck m Up, not by Omari and Hampton.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Kamani Vidal well done.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Second year from Troy, six round pick in twenty twenty four,
and that young man now has thirteen runs for thirty
nine yards and the first rushing touchdown of his career.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
And it's a.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
First down for the Chargers. They scrimmage from their own
forty eight yard line. Herbert unders painful, great eye behind him,
Vidal the tailback. Bradley Boseman snaps it to Herbert back
to Vidal, more room up the middle. Ivan Pace whipped
on a tackle as Vidal heads into Bikings territory across
the forty five and he's taken down at the forty eight.
(04:16):
A run of eight yards by Kamani, Vidal and Paul.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
That's that's just the lead Isola, right, I mean, that's
that's about as simple of a running play as you get.
And that's to you have a full back and a tailback,
eye formation, take a crow hop and then just let
the blocks in front of you develop. And there's absolutely
nobody playing on the Chargers side of the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
It's all just stuck at the line.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
That's I'm sure those plays were Carson Wentz's fault too,
I know if there's any question about that. So here
are the rushing yards of totals that matter that tell
you that this team is not. And this team, by
the way, spent major money to shore up the interior,
it's defensive line.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I've never even heard those players' names anymore.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Have you.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
One hundred and thirty yards rushing or more to four
opponents this year and the Chargers, and they ended up
rushing for two hundred and seven yards. And by the way,
that's not the most we've given up this year. Atlanta
got two hundred.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
And eighteen.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Five point four yards per play or per rush, I
guess we would say, And as Ben Gessling, our four
to thirty guest notes, Chargers were content to bully the
Vikings with fullbacks and tight ends, gaining five point four
yards per play with two tight ends and two running
backs on the field according to NFL Next Gen Stats.
That's Harbaugh football. Now, we said going into this game,
(05:51):
Hardball can't play Hardball football because he's down like three
running backs. He hasn't been able to do it against
anybody else. No way he's gonna be able to do
it against us.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Right, and he did.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
We got a problem that has nothing to do with
the quarterback, nothing to do with the depleted offensive line.
This defense has been exposed, and the word around the
campfire is that the Jackals are sharp, starting to sharpen
their knives. Wondering whether the league has caught up with
(06:30):
the B flow scheme. Now, I'm not ready to play
that card yet because I think it may have as
much to do with personnel as it does scheme. And again,
we see great shifts and performance from week to week.
But I'll bring up what I did the day of
the Eagles game and the day after the Eagles game.
(06:55):
How often do opposing team quarterbacks, when they are not
second teamers, when they are not kids starting their first game,
successfully dissect this defense? You can look it up. It's
substantial and yet another really good quarterback inconsistent of the postseason.
(07:19):
But a guy who's obviously highly skilled who diced them up.
Hurts diced them up, go down through the list as
we did. As I said a week or so ago,
who's the Rams quarterback Stafford diced them up? Golf clinic.
(07:39):
It's happening too often. And again, you know, it's harder
to look good against good quarterbacks and good offenses. I
get that, but it hasn't even been been close and
in this case, it's total system because at varying times,
I guess, and the KOC we played it live.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
He tried to hang his hat on.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Well, we did do a pretty good job off the
bye week handling the Eagles run better.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Then we'd handle the run previously.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah, but does anybody really going to give you a
banner for that if it comes at the expense of
the You know, the huge explosive plays that the Eagles
were able to come up with, right, the big plays
that they were able to come up with, they are endless.
I'll give you more defensively, twenty nine first downs for
(08:29):
the Chargers, no punts, thirty nine minutes ball possession, ten
plays of fifteen yards or more, seven of them, by
the way, in the first half, when you know, obviously
the game was pretty much much won. Four drives of
(08:51):
nine plays or more. That's pretty sustaining. And the biggest,
of course, was the second quarter of the ninety four
yard which ended rather badly for the Vikings. Herbert twenty
seven yard trow over Jeff Okudah. Okudah may represent the
(09:12):
personnel side of this from a Bflow and Viking stand
personnel standpoint, what are we hear in training camp has
been a struggle for him.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
But Bflow sees something in them. Man.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Bflow identifies this talent who fits into this defense, and
we got another good look here in Bflow we trust well.
I think what we're seeing. Analytically speaking, I think Okuda
is literally the worst ranked defensive back in football right now.
And again Pro Football Focus, we get it. Some people
(09:46):
believe in it, some people think it's a little simplistic,
depending on the system you play, but none of the
signs are very good on Okudah.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
And then that is where is.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
It the scheme with Bflow or is it some personnel decisions,
including the front the interior of the defensive line have
been made that are not panning out at all whatever
B flow is trying to implement. And by the way,
who do you play next? Detroit Lions. Another sharp quarterback
(10:23):
who's you know, sort of built his way into matured
into the perfect system for him in Detroit and has
been just just has just killed this defense. So we'll
see that doesn't exactly give you a warm and fuzzy feeling,
even though you have all this extra time now for
a number of people to get healthy health isn't the
(10:44):
issue on defense right now? I know we got one
defensive guy still out. He's a good Van Ginkle's good
Van Ginkle's good Gink. But come on, man, there's a
million teams that are on a weekly basis missing three
four five people from their defense. Else is allegedly back
and we just ain't playing. So that's why I say
total system failure. And I say regardless of what you
(11:06):
think should have been done or can be done at
the quarterback position, because this is gonna be McCarthy's team now,
there's no question about that. You're gonna have to get
a whole lot better defensively for me to take this
whole operation seriously again, a little late, we got bonus bucks.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
We do with a fan and two men and a
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Speaker 1 (11:25):
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Speaker 2 (11:27):
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Speaker 3 (12:05):
Some Anoka guy sent this text in about three thirteen,
so an hour ago. If you need a bright side
from last night's game, at least we don't have a
quarterback controversy anymore.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
So, an Oka.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Guy, I'm afraid you're wrong. I mean, you should be right,
but I am afraid you're wrong. There is still very
much now this one in this quarterback controversy.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
WinCE is eliminated.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
But believe me, there is amongst at least one element
of the population, a massive, massive quarterback controversy. Now I
said this before I say it again. This is all
in JJ McCarthy's control because it's his team. There's not
(12:52):
any question about that. That's why they took him where
they took him. You believe in the quarterback whisperer. You
believe in still in term of his ability to evaluate quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
He likes what he thinks McCarthy can be.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
But if McCarthy struggles mightily, if there aren't enough at
least flashes of oh, here's where this is going, it'll
get worse. And that's the nature of the position, especially
when let's be honest and be clear about it.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
You've been anointed the job. He didn't win the job.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
I mean you could say technically he won the job
in college, or he won the Vikings over enough to
draft him, But there was no meaningful competition.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
In training camp. This was the guy.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
If there had been any meaningful competition a possible then
Daniel Jones would probably be this team starting quarterback. I
do believe that. I think Jones understood no matter what
they told him, he probably understood that it's the way
teams tend to operate when they take a quarterback that high.
I mean, who was the Colts quarterback he beat out?
(14:01):
I can remember his name.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Richard, thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
So you could say, well the Colts said they Well,
the Colts had had a couple of years with their phenom.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
That's the difference.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
So they were already at a point where they said,
you know, we got to open it up.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
A little bit.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
So what the Vikings did is really the pattern most
teams follow, where you you anoint a guy who say
now is his time, et cetera. I've said this before,
We've talked about it, we will again. I'm sure when
Ben Gesling joins in just a couple of minutes. Part
of the pressure that the Vikings are feeling, whether it's
(14:37):
fair or not, or the KOC and the organization are feeling,
is that pretty much every other quarterback we had something
to do with last year is excelling, either in free
agency in the case of a roj or on quarterbacks
they had on the roster in the case of Darnold,
who we all understand was going to be tough to
(14:57):
bring back unless you franchised him, which they could done
at at a greater expense, which means other things can't
be done. I get that, or a more reasonable price
for Daniel Jones. And what have I said from the beginning.
If your quarterback is playing well too, that'll go away fast.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
But if you're if yours is.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Injured and not available, as has largely been the case,
that's my biggest gripe on McCarthy. He's just I mean,
the Vikings have had to do other things, consider other
things because he just hasn't been available to them. Then
you're gonna You're gonna it's gonna play out this way.
It's gonna be this way. It's gonna be agonizing and painful.
The rest of the uh the season as well. Let
(15:41):
me see if I have one other text here. You know,
Lovel's covering something right now. I wonder is he confirmed
for five point thirty? Do we know of you texted him?
That's what I've got. I mean, I can send him,
send him a text just to remind him. I think
he's covering a hockey game right now. He's he's he's
live tweeting hockey game, that's for sure. Real quick on
Bflow feels like the NFL in general may have figured
(16:02):
out Beflow's mysterious complex as a scheme. Is this the
way it usually goes? Someone does something new or different.
It's effective for a year, maybe two, But eventually with
all the other sexy coordinators, all the other savvy coordinators
could be sexy two. Either your scheme has to evolve
or you fall behind. Love b flow and many of
our pieces, but other teams seem to be easily solving
our defensive puzzle. That's from red Rover out of red Wing.
(16:25):
Well to that extent, you'd say you'd like to get
more solid and more fundamental and basic, although that's what
bflow said he was intending to do with our ability.
You know we're trying to stop the run now. I
think went into the Eagles game, which they did do,
but at a huge expense obviously, So then you start
to wonder about the pieces as well as the plane itself.
(16:46):
Ben Gesling Media Jackal back from Los Angeles, California. We'll
check in with him, get his reaction out. He's had
a little time to process it and think about it
to the current plight of the Minnesota Vikings and how
they go forward from here.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Questions for Ben.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Six four six eighty six is the Bradshaw and Bryant
Cafe and text line.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Bonus Box is back on kfan. We have nine chances
for you to win one thousand dollars every weekday. That's
every hour from nine am till five pm. Tenner keywords
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Speaker 3 (17:29):
Standard heating and air Conditioning brings us Ben Gestling each
and every week on the Bumper to Bumper program and
on the Paul Allen Project as well. Ben kind enough
to join us via the Connectico Water Systems hotline. Were
you participating in today's zoom presser?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
The day after.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
I was involved in it. Yes, I was mostly monitoring
as I was just getting back gotch but didn't ask
any questions. But yes, was all yours for it.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
I'm wondering if I want you to hear a bit
of sound from early in the presser, if you remember it,
and whether it at all made you WinCE a little bit.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Brett Blakemore, Let's play.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
That many things on the film are correctable.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
So for a lot of our listeners you might not
be shocked to learn it was a stunning, jarring throwback
moment that had them breaking out in hives and thinking
about the Christian ponder era.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I don't know if it hit you the same way.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I don't know if the coach has any understanding of that,
the use of that term, because it's not a new term.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
A lot of people use it.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
No, but here it seems it's almost like we need
some kind of a trigger warning anytime anybody in the
current administration gets anywhere near easily correctable.
Speaker 6 (18:50):
Yes, there are certain words, and my mind went there
as well. There are certain words in Viking's War that
just kind of have that evocative feeling that do have
that trigger, the easily correctable one with Ponder is certainly
there anytime somebody says anything about a tweak. I think
about the Neil Hunter and Mike Zimmer who thought a
hernia was just a tweak. So yeah, there are certain
(19:13):
words that when those come up, and it may be
completely unintentional, but people that weren't here for that. Certainly,
Kevin O'Connell was not here for Christian Pond. In fact,
I think was, you know, probably wrapping up his career
around the time that Christian Ponder was talking about things
that were easily correctable. But yeah, I my mind does
go there when I heard it, I think he said it.
(19:34):
He might have said it last night too, but yeah,
when I hear it, that's the first thing I think of,
it's too good.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
All right, I want to read you.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
A lot of texts have come in that I asked
for questions for you, and we're going to try to
get to some of them.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
And the first time I'm going.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
To read is going to sound I think a little
bit uh, sky is falling, and maybe a little bit uh.
It'll feel like an overreaction, but I do think it
leads to something I want to ask you. Here's the text,
Unpopular no that's Harrison Phillips related.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Where did it go? No, No, that's I thought I
favored it.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
It was.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Basically I can't find it now.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I thought I had saved it, But the basic premise
of it was, I gotta admit, you know, I'm always
going to be a Vikings fan, you know, through thick
and thin. That's never oh here it is. I'll always
root for the Vikings. But last night didn't bother me
a bit, as again shows that we should have hired
the quirky coach who wins everywhere and not the with it.
(20:39):
And while culture is everything coach now that may well
be an overreaction to what took place last night, but
there's an element of what I've received today a little
bit after the Eagles game that I think speaks to
something you and I have talked about before. This regime
has been together for a while now, this coach and
(20:59):
this general manager. There are no playoff victories on the
resume to fall back on. There's none of that equity,
even if there's a lot of regular season victories, and
I think part of the story going forward, especially if
they can't sort of, you know, right the ship at
least enough to either be back in the race or
at least to show here's why we invested in JJ McCarthy.
(21:23):
It's going to get louder, it's going to get a
little tougher and a little bit more difficult. And you Jackals,
I think, are going to be a little bit more
aggressive as well. And after a game like last night,
I'm not particularly surprised that that's the way it can.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
It can shift very quickly.
Speaker 6 (21:39):
Yeah, I have saw a lot of it last night
on social media. I mean it was the level of
anxiety and a level of angst to was not hard
to find. And yes, I think it is getting to
that point because this is your four of it. And
you know, they're in this ship a little bit because
(22:00):
they had success with kind of temporary quarterbacks, but those
didn't result in playoff wins. And those are the things
that when we talked about equity, those are the things
that get you some equity. And I think everybody over
there knows that. I think everybody is pretty clear eyed
about the fact that you need playoff success to lead
(22:23):
to sustainable goodwill and for people to feel good about,
you know, the regime going forward. You know, I've had
these conversations with people in that building and say, yeah,
but the regular season success is great, but it doesn't
mean a whole lot unless you can go deep in
the playoffs and probably do so with a quarterback that
you know is going to be your guy for the
long term. So yeah, I think all of that is
(22:45):
shifting a little bit, and I don't think anybody's terribly
surprised by it. I think, you know, some of the
irritation from the head coach lately, as we talked about,
has been this sort of narrative of whether McCarthy it's
actually injured, and people kind of saying, well, is this
actually a thing that has been keeping them out? Which
it is. But I think some of that's coming from there.
(23:06):
I don't know that the expectations are anything that they
are alarmed by or surprised by. That's part of this job,
and it's completely fair for people to say, you know what,
this is year four of this. It's you haven't seen
the level of payoff yet. I mean, you know by
this point, I mean, they've had more success in the
(23:27):
regular season than my Zimmer, but Mike Zimmer had been
to an NFC title game. I think at the end
of year four. So you do get to a point
where the playoff wins matter, and the fact that they're
not here yet people start to say, Okay, we need
to see some results here. Just gouttle everything down.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
What from last night should be at the top of
the concern list for your average Vikings fan?
Speaker 1 (23:53):
What was it for you?
Speaker 6 (23:55):
Well, well, both lines of scrimmage, to me are the
things that pop about. I'm actually written about that for
Sunday in the sense that you know, we heard all
offseason and they put a lot of money behind it
of fixing both of these lines, I mean the interior
offensive line with the big priority, and they also wanted
(24:15):
to add pass rush on the defensive line, and they
make the moves that they did for Bill Fries and
Ryan Kelly and drafting Donama Jackson. A Donoma Jackson I
think has been has been pretty solid to this point,
but you have a lot of questions with injuries in
that group. And then on the defensive side of it,
we have not seen much from Javon Hargrave. In fact,
(24:36):
I think last night he was on the field for
like forty some percent of the snaps and it was
one of his lower snap usages. Of the season Jalen Redmond.
I think it's taken a lot of his playing time.
But you have a lot of players that got a
lot of money, and it's going to put them back
in a tough cat situation after this year. So when
(24:59):
you've made those moves and those players aren't producing, and
a lot of them are not twenty five years old,
you have players who are in their early thirties or
in their late twenties when they are kind of staring
at a little bit of a tipping point with that group,
even after all of the investments they made. And that
(25:19):
is the piece to me that shows up because the
Chargers basically said, we can run the ball with heavy
personnel as much as we want. We're not afraid of
trying to play bullyball with you. And then on the
other side of it, the Chargers have been one of
the worst run defenses in the NFL. The Vikings basically
decided they couldn't do that with the number of guys
that they were missing, especially when Suja Ham's out, Josh
(25:42):
Oliver's out, and they said, okay, we've got to go
try to throw the ball and keep keep Carson Wentz
protected in the backfield. Obviously they weren't able to do
that either. So the fact that they got beat at
bad Lee, if they did up both lines from a
team that kind of hung it out on, We're going
to be better in both of these spots. That's the
(26:04):
part that stuck out, and I think as you go
forward with some of the questions that will come along
both of those lies the scrimmage. It makes it all
the more concerning for them into the future.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
I remain stunned by the decision to not bring Wentz
over to the bench, because obviously Wentz wasn't going to
take himself out. A lot of players pride themselves on that.
I think he has shown an incredible level of toughness,
but the head coach always has a right to say,
come on over, that's it for tonight. I'm still stunned
(26:38):
by it, not because I think Brosmer was going to
bring them back in the game, but to me, it
reached a point where you go, put the kid in hand,
the ball off, throw a few swing passes, let's go home.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
We're not We're done. We're not going to win this game.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
And I don't, for the life of me, understand that
a coach who's kind of made his whole persona. I'm
the humanitarian coach, right, I know how to treat players
the right way.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
I'm not old school in that regard.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
I guess I'm still kind of gobsmacked that he didn't
pull him, and I found his explanation last night a
little bit not very solid either.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
What did you make of that? What do you think
that's about?
Speaker 6 (27:17):
Well, I think you know what he alluded to was
with Brozmer. If you put him in there, you're setting
him up to have a pretty tough go of it
when the pressure had been as steady as it was
and you're trying to make decisions. That scenario does not
assume kind of what you're talking about, where you just say, hey,
let's punt it out and keep it simple and go
(27:38):
home and kind of wave the way flag. I don't
think he was looking at it, or at least because
I think I was the one that asked the questions.
But did you think about making the move independent of
Carson Wentz's injury on a performance basis? Did you think
about putting Max Bergmer in just feeling like maybe he
would have a better chance to move the offense and
you know, he was thinking about it at that point
(28:00):
from the standpoint of Okay, if I did it earlier
in the game, you're not probably just waving a white
flag at that point. But yeah, I think a lot
of it goes to the idea of am I going
to mess up a young quarterback. I think there's a
lot of that thought process that goes into his decisions
with certainly with JJ McCarthy and then with Max Brosmer.
(28:21):
You know that maybe to a point where you overcorrect.
I think that's certainly a fair argument that you could have.
I think a lot of his thought process is I
don't want to put a young quarterback in a situation
where it's basically all right, kid, you're in the deep end.
Try to, you know, bend for yourself or find a
life preserver somewhere. I think that went into a lot
of it, and Wentz kept saying I could go back
(28:43):
in it's just pain. I can make my way through it.
But yeah, when he was getting hit as much as
he was, and he was obviously in the pain that
he was, it was hard to watch. And I think
a lot of that as he comes through it, he
said he probably has not been in that much pain
in a game before, and O'Connell did wonder on the
interception if some of the injury and some of them
(29:05):
maybe to follow through mechanics because of that front shoulder
affected things there. So yeah, it is it was a
tough one to think about. I use the analogy a
number of times in the press box. It felt like
a starting pitcher that had gotten hit around, and you say, hey,
you just got to go out there and give us
a few mornings so we could say the bullpen. The difference,
of course, is that when you were doing that as
(29:26):
a quarterback in that setting, you are getting hit around
a different commutation and that becomes pretty difficult for the
guy that has to go out there.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
And do it.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Let me run by you.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
A theory that is gaining traction in golfer Land.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I'm kind of curious to get your view of. I
don't know. If you've heard it, and I think I've
heard it, okay, then.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
You kind of know where I'm The theory is, there's
only one rational reason for why the head coach did
not insert Rosmer fear that if Brozmer plays well, he's
then stuck with another quarterback controversy. That has nothing to
(30:08):
do with Carson Wentz that he was going to probably
had a chance to play so well that therefore we'll
find out the truth that as much cat draft capital
as if I can spend on on JJ, they actually
should have. Well, I guess they didn't need to do
the cat draft capital on the free agent quarterback.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
That's the beauty of it, that.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
That's really the guy better equipped right now to take
this team to the Promised Land.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
Your thoughts, well, yeah, I mean I've heard it. I've
seen it quite a bit, and I think we're you know,
we're kind of basing that on preseason football for the
most part. We're probably basing that on a little bit
of Robot skutty my Goo Gophers. But yeah, I've heard
a lot of it. I don't know that. I necessarily
think preseason football gives us enough of a window into
(30:56):
what the regular season would look like to say one
transfer to the other. I remember that with back in
the Kyle Flotter days, where people would say, boy, this
guy is tearing it up. Why isn't he a certain quarterback?
When he looks this good.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Gretta if you want to go back fair enough, yeah,
before your time Gino Tretta was unbelieved and he was
a Heisman Trophy guys, I recall, wasn't he and yeah,
and we all had fun with that.
Speaker 6 (31:17):
Yeah, yeah, So I think there's a little bit of that,
But yeah, I think it is. It's different in the
regular season when you're not getting the number of reps
in practice that you're getting in the preseason. I think
a lot of what Max Grosmer is doing is Yeah,
I've had the conversation with him. He's probably working, he's
(31:38):
off working on the side quite a bit. You're not
getting much other than maybe a little bit of scout
team stuff. But as the third quarterback in the regular season,
you're not getting prepped the way that the starter is
just because there aren't the number of reps in those
practices to do it. So I don't think it's necessarily anything.
We've had a lot of fun with JJ McCarthy related conspiracy,
(32:00):
whether it's injuries or whether it's Max Brosmer. I understand
the sentiment. I do think Max Brosmer has some promise,
but I don't know that that is the exact reason
that he's trying it up this much, Because if that
were the case, I think we've seen evidence with this
coaching staff where I mean Jalen Redmond's an example of this.
(32:21):
They signed Javon Hargrave. Redmond was an undrafted free agent.
He is playing better than just about anybody they have,
and he's taking staffs away from a guy. And they
gave a lot of money too. So I don't think
they are shy about saying, if you're the best one
out there, you're going to play. Yeah. I don't know
that the conspiracy theory, as much fun as it might be,
(32:41):
has legs on this one.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
No, I tend to agree with you. Is it again?
Speaker 3 (32:49):
The league is set up in a way where a
game like that that was so thorough as you laid
out very nicely in your game story in your analysis,
feels like more than one game, right, Yeah, but it
did feel so thorough to me that you're in this
this strange period where I don't think there's anything the
(33:10):
head coach can say.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Now.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
He goes tends to go word salad. He's the other
extreme of ZIM. I actually think here's what's odd. I
think as much as ZIM got ripped and fans are
ready to say good riddance, I think what they're looking
for right now is a little more zim you know,
fire and brimstone, and that's of course just not Koc's nature.
I mean, he did, I guess last night go with
(33:32):
the old you know, I didn't have the team ready
to play, which he doesn't usually play that card all
that often. But yeah, where do I mean is this season?
Do you view this in terms of being a credible
playoff threat? Do you think this is still salvageable here
or are we at pretty close to a point where look,
(33:53):
we know it's McCarthy's team now for sure. Wentz has
come back to the pack in a big way. So
this just play the thing out and if there's some
JJ struggles, at least we're gaining that experience and we
can try to, you know, really restart the clock at
the start of next season.
Speaker 6 (34:10):
Well, I mean, you look at the standings in the NFC,
it is getting a little harder to see a path
to the playoffs. To use the Steve Kornacki path to
victory sort of phrasing, they are twelve tied for twelve
the NFC right now. They're behind Atlanta, who they already
lost to. They're behind the Lions, who it'll play next week.
(34:34):
Obviously they'll play the Seahawks, and you know, trying to
just look to the standings that play the Packers here
in a couple of weeks. But the schedule is tough
enough that they'll have opportunities. Certainly they'll play a lot
of these teams that they would have to overtake to
get to the playoffs. But the flip side of that
is you're not looking at last year's schedule where it's
(34:56):
the AFC South and a lot of teams they can
beat up on. In fact, there aren't many teams left
on the schedule, probably other than the Giants that they're
going to go into a game as favorites. I think
that's gonna happen quite a bit where they are the
underdogs and they're gonna have to play with a level
of consistency we have not seen to this point if
they want to make a run. Because if you're probably
(35:18):
talking about I mean there are seven six teams in
the NFC already with five wins and one with four,
but call it four and a half with the Packers.
So you're sitting behind quite a large portion of the NFC,
and you're gonna have to play at a pretty high
level to overtake those teams, especially with two NFC losses
(35:39):
already on the Ledgers. So I think they would have
to play well enough to make a run and probably
do it with Jaj McCarthy is the quarterback that if
they do make a run, it's gonna make everybody feel
a lot better about a lot of things, in part
because the quarterback will have to play that well. But
to ask him to come back in and you know,
(36:01):
you've kind of gone from this thing of they wanted
it to be supportive for him. They wanted to be
kind of this smooth on ramp. Now he's going to
come back in and say, Okay, kid, we haven't won
in poor Field since twenty twenty eight. You've got to
come back in and be the igniter of some hope,
at least for the fan base. I don't know if
the team will be thinking about it that way, but
I think there's going to be some of that from
the fan base with McCarthy. So that's a lot to ask,
(36:24):
and it's a lot to expect from a team that
has not been consistent on either line of scrimmage. We've
seen issues on special teams, with the penalties we've seen,
coverage bucks, I mean, there's a lot of things that
have to get fixed for a large stretch of the
season against a very, very tough schedule that I think
if they're going to make a run, it's going to
(36:45):
take a level of play we haven't seen to this point,
and I don't have a lot right now to go
off of to say, yeah, they're gonna do that. I mean,
it's it's possible. You know, teams the NFL is weird.
Teams get hot and figure things out and prove people
along all the time. But just looking at what we've
seen to this point, it's hard to see an obvious
(37:05):
path for that to happen.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Somebody who's listening to us is frustrated, I guess, with
both of us, but suggesting that, you know, how, given
the injuries along the line of scrimmage, how can you
possibly expect anything better than the way it's gone for
the Vikings? And obviously I think I get it to
at least a degree on the offensive line side, But
that doesn't explain the defensive front, does it.
Speaker 6 (37:30):
No, it doesn't. I mean that would be where I
would come back to that too, is. This is a
team that was second in the league against the run
last year and they're twenty fourth right now, So that
is as big of an issue, I think as anything.
I mean, you look at the Chargers run for two
hundred and seven yard last night, and really Justin Herbert
was sacked twice, but otherwise had room to scramble, had
(37:51):
room to sit in the pocket. I think a lot
of the things that you hang your having with this
team are on the defensive side of the ball, and
they've had some things there. I think Van Ginkel being
out has been a big factor, and Blake Cashman being
out certainly as a factor as well. It's not anywhere
near to the level that they've faced it on the
(38:11):
offensive line, So I put a lot of it there. Yeah,
I understand what he's saying about the pressure and all
of the machinations they've had to come up with on
the offensive line. They still have not had a single
snap where the five starters they want have been on
the field together. So that's really really difficult for any
NFL team to work past. You never see NFL teams
(38:33):
with enough offensive line depth in this day and age
to survive that, and I think that's that's a valid point.
But the fact they've been as porous as they have
against the run and we've seen some coverage bucks in
the last couple of weeks. I don't know that that
is one you just pass off of injuries. I think
that's a deeper issue that comes down to a lot
(38:54):
of wider things than just health.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
So we're it Is it fair to say that we're not.
I mean you mentioned at the start, and you're going
to write about this for Sunday Line of Scrimmage again,
huge issue, both offensive line and defensive line. That the
early signs if and again we're almost we're getting close
to halfway through the season or will be fairly soon,
(39:19):
that the early signs regarding the acquisitions we made, The
signings that we made very disappointing, whether it's due to
injury in some cases or just invisible in the case
a couple of the defense interior defensive linemen.
Speaker 6 (39:33):
Correct, Yeah, I think that's right. I mean you had
it certainly with some of the injuries. Ryan Kelly obviously
is the most significant one at least of the new acquisitions.
On the offensive line, Will Prides has been the one
guy that's been on the field and stay healthy among
those offensive linemen. But yes, the defensive line. I mean
Javon Hargrave is as a cap number this year of nineteen.
(39:59):
Now that that my cat number almost eight million dollars
this year, and then next year it goes to twenty one,
and that'll be a larger discussion for later. I think
you're probably talking about them having to do something with
that contract. But the way he's played or the way
he's kind of played himself out of that rotation a
little bit, especially agains the run, Yeah, that's been disappointing.
(40:20):
And then Jonathan Allen's probably been a little bit better,
but not to the degree that I think they would
have hoped for when they gave him fifty one million
dollars or three years. I think both of those signings
have not been what they were hoping. They wanted interior
pass rush from those guys, and they've got a couple
of sacks at piece, but they certainly have not been
the consistent disruptors that they wanted, and against the run,
(40:44):
they have been part of the struggle. So yeah, I
think a lot of those things have not worked out
the way they hoped, and they're going to have a
lot of questions after this year because they've got I
think three hundred and forty seven million dollars of cap
commitments for next year already, and you're going to have
conversations pretty quickly on some of these players they signed
(41:04):
and saying is the second year of this contract worth it?
Or do we need to think about doing some other things?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Good work. Hopefully you can get some sleep.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
We'll look forward to what you're writing for Sunday and
we'll let chat next week.
Speaker 6 (41:16):
Thanks man, all right, sounds good.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Thanks Dom, Ben Gestling, Star Tribune and of course startobune
dot com. Brought to you by Standard Heating and Air Conditioning.
A Lavelle is tentatively scheduled for five thirty. Do we
have confirmation? He says he's in awesome between games, maybe
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Wild Wolves World Series
Hey Rubs.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
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Speaker 3 (00:24):
Dan, You've always hated the Gophers. You see my edge, Dan,
from a concerned Gopher. I'm concerned for the Brochmer people
and Gopher fans who have basically decided to invest everything
in this one belief. And as I said before, it's human.
He's an easy player to root for. He is undrafted,
(00:47):
he wasn't supposed to even reach this level. All of
that's true. I couldn't have been more complimentary of him
last year when he played, couldn't have been and was
extremely complimentary of what we'd heard about out of him
from training camp. That's not exactly being negative about a Gopher.
(01:07):
I'm just looking for a little bit of rationality here,
taking a little bit of the emotion out of it,
which I don't think we're unfortunately seeing all that much of.
Let's get to another Vikings talking point, you know, Let's
go to maybe this will unify us and calm everybody down,
(01:30):
Let's get to I think an area I'm hoping that
we can all agree on.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
This talking point is called the run defense. That it wasn't.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Second and ten Wentz comes out of the shotgun. He's
going to give it to showtime. Aaron Jones right up
the middle and Derwin j play action for Justin again.
He's back to pass, but you can run and there
he goes, heads out to his left to the twenty
(02:02):
five to twenty, gets to the fifteen. Justin Herbert scampers
out of bounds at the thirteen yard line. That is
a run of eighteen yards for Justin and another first
down for him. Bolts empty backfield for Justin Herbert. Six
year from Oregon Vikings rush four. Herbert steps up the middle,
(02:24):
pedal to the medal thirty five, forty hangles to the
right to the fifty blake cashman finally brings him down
at a forty nine. It's a seventeen yard run for
Justin Herbert. I don't know if people were listening about
ten minutes ago, Ben Leeber could not have laid out
any better. Justin Herbert's running nobility and how he sees
(02:45):
it and what he does with it, because that's exactly
what he just did. Justin Herbert, who takes the snap,
hands into the doll and he scoops up the middle
between the hash marks. For a game of five, make
it seven second in Courcus forty for the Charger.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
Yeah, if you're gonna go out unfortunately this is the
position for the Vikings defense. You're gonna go out and
give up five to seven yards per rush. The Chargers
with harball will just keep running the football. I mean
they don't. I don't think they're gonna want to put
it the ball at risk at all. They've come out
with some bigger personnel and they're just gonna keep running it.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Second and three offset I right behind Herbert, who goes
under center, puts Asid in the second in motion to
the left hand off the doll. Plenty of room up
the middle as he darts to the left across their
series gets to the forty five. Then he's finally hit
and stopped at about the forty eight. Effortless run of
eight maybe nine yards. Not by the day, not by
(03:39):
Chuck m Up, not by Omari and Hampton.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Kamani Vidal well done.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Second year from Troy, six round pick in twenty twenty four,
and that young man now has thirteen runs for thirty
nine yards and the first rushing touchdown of his career.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
And it's a.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
First down for the Chargers. They scrimmage from their own
forty eight yard line. Herbert unders painful, great eye behind him,
Vidal the tailback. Bradley Boseman snaps it to Herbert back
to Vidal, more room up the middle. Ivan Pace whipped
on a tackle as Vidal heads into Bikings territory across
the forty five and he's taken down at the forty eight.
(04:16):
A run of eight yards by Kamani, Vidal and Paul.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
That's that's just the lead Isola, right, I mean, that's
that's about as simple of a running play as you get.
And that's to you have a full back and a tailback,
eye formation, take a crow hop and then just let
the blocks in front of you develop. And there's absolutely
nobody playing on the Chargers side of the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
It's all just stuck at the line.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
That's I'm sure those plays were Carson Wentz's fault too,
I know if there's any question about that. So here
are the rushing yards of totals that matter that tell
you that this team is not. And this team, by
the way, spent major money to shore up the interior,
it's defensive line.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I've never even heard those players' names anymore.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Have you.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
One hundred and thirty yards rushing or more to four
opponents this year and the Chargers, and they ended up
rushing for two hundred and seven yards. And by the way,
that's not the most we've given up this year. Atlanta
got two hundred.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
And eighteen.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Five point four yards per play or per rush, I
guess we would say, And as Ben Gessling, our four
to thirty guest notes, Chargers were content to bully the
Vikings with fullbacks and tight ends, gaining five point four
yards per play with two tight ends and two running
backs on the field according to NFL Next Gen Stats.
That's Harbaugh football. Now, we said going into this game,
(05:51):
Hardball can't play Hardball football because he's down like three
running backs. He hasn't been able to do it against
anybody else. No way he's gonna be able to do
it against us.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Right, and he did.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
We got a problem that has nothing to do with
the quarterback, nothing to do with the depleted offensive line.
This defense has been exposed, and the word around the
campfire is that the Jackals are sharp, starting to sharpen
their knives. Wondering whether the league has caught up with
(06:30):
the B flow scheme. Now, I'm not ready to play
that card yet because I think it may have as
much to do with personnel as it does scheme. And again,
we see great shifts and performance from week to week.
But I'll bring up what I did the day of
the Eagles game and the day after the Eagles game.
(06:55):
How often do opposing team quarterbacks, when they are not
second teamers, when they are not kids starting their first game,
successfully dissect this defense? You can look it up. It's
substantial and yet another really good quarterback inconsistent of the postseason.
(07:19):
But a guy who's obviously highly skilled who diced them up.
Hurts diced them up, go down through the list as
we did. As I said a week or so ago,
who's the Rams quarterback Stafford diced them up? Golf clinic.
(07:39):
It's happening too often. And again, you know, it's harder
to look good against good quarterbacks and good offenses. I
get that, but it hasn't even been been close and
in this case, it's total system because at varying times,
I guess, and the KOC we played it live.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
He tried to hang his hat on.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Well, we did do a pretty good job off the
bye week handling the Eagles run better.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Then we'd handle the run previously.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah, but does anybody really going to give you a
banner for that if it comes at the expense of
the You know, the huge explosive plays that the Eagles
were able to come up with, right, the big plays
that they were able to come up with, they are endless.
I'll give you more defensively, twenty nine first downs for
(08:29):
the Chargers, no punts, thirty nine minutes ball possession, ten
plays of fifteen yards or more, seven of them, by
the way, in the first half, when you know, obviously
the game was pretty much much won. Four drives of
(08:51):
nine plays or more. That's pretty sustaining. And the biggest,
of course, was the second quarter of the ninety four
yard which ended rather badly for the Vikings. Herbert twenty
seven yard trow over Jeff Okudah. Okudah may represent the
(09:12):
personnel side of this from a Bflow and Viking stand
personnel standpoint, what are we hear in training camp has
been a struggle for him.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
But Bflow sees something in them. Man.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Bflow identifies this talent who fits into this defense, and
we got another good look here in Bflow we trust well.
I think what we're seeing. Analytically speaking, I think Okuda
is literally the worst ranked defensive back in football right now.
And again Pro Football Focus, we get it. Some people
(09:46):
believe in it, some people think it's a little simplistic,
depending on the system you play, but none of the
signs are very good on Okudah.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
And then that is where is.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
It the scheme with Bflow or is it some personnel decisions,
including the front the interior of the defensive line have
been made that are not panning out at all whatever
B flow is trying to implement. And by the way,
who do you play next? Detroit Lions. Another sharp quarterback
(10:23):
who's you know, sort of built his way into matured
into the perfect system for him in Detroit and has
been just just has just killed this defense. So we'll
see that doesn't exactly give you a warm and fuzzy feeling,
even though you have all this extra time now for
a number of people to get healthy health isn't the
(10:44):
issue on defense right now? I know we got one
defensive guy still out. He's a good Van Ginkle's good
Van Ginkle's good Gink. But come on, man, there's a
million teams that are on a weekly basis missing three
four five people from their defense. Else is allegedly back
and we just ain't playing. So that's why I say
total system failure. And I say regardless of what you
(11:06):
think should have been done or can be done at
the quarterback position, because this is gonna be McCarthy's team now,
there's no question about that. You're gonna have to get
a whole lot better defensively for me to take this
whole operation seriously again, a little late, we got bonus bucks.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
We do with a fan and two men and a
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Speaker 2 (11:27):
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Speaker 3 (12:05):
Some Anoka guy sent this text in about three thirteen,
so an hour ago. If you need a bright side
from last night's game, at least we don't have a
quarterback controversy anymore.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
So, an Oka.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Guy, I'm afraid you're wrong. I mean, you should be right,
but I am afraid you're wrong. There is still very
much now this one in this quarterback controversy.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
WinCE is eliminated.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
But believe me, there is amongst at least one element
of the population, a massive, massive quarterback controversy. Now I
said this before I say it again. This is all
in JJ McCarthy's control because it's his team. There's not
(12:52):
any question about that. That's why they took him where
they took him. You believe in the quarterback whisperer. You
believe in still in term of his ability to evaluate quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
He likes what he thinks McCarthy can be.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
But if McCarthy struggles mightily, if there aren't enough at
least flashes of oh, here's where this is going, it'll
get worse. And that's the nature of the position, especially
when let's be honest and be clear about it.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
You've been anointed the job. He didn't win the job.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
I mean you could say technically he won the job
in college, or he won the Vikings over enough to
draft him, But there was no meaningful competition.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
In training camp. This was the guy.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
If there had been any meaningful competition a possible then
Daniel Jones would probably be this team starting quarterback. I
do believe that. I think Jones understood no matter what
they told him, he probably understood that it's the way
teams tend to operate when they take a quarterback that high.
I mean, who was the Colts quarterback he beat out?
(14:01):
I can remember his name.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Richard, thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
So you could say, well the Colts said they Well,
the Colts had had a couple of years with their phenom.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
That's the difference.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
So they were already at a point where they said,
you know, we got to open it up.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
A little bit.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
So what the Vikings did is really the pattern most
teams follow, where you you anoint a guy who say
now is his time, et cetera. I've said this before,
We've talked about it, we will again. I'm sure when
Ben Gesling joins in just a couple of minutes. Part
of the pressure that the Vikings are feeling, whether it's
(14:37):
fair or not, or the KOC and the organization are feeling,
is that pretty much every other quarterback we had something
to do with last year is excelling, either in free
agency in the case of a roj or on quarterbacks
they had on the roster in the case of Darnold,
who we all understand was going to be tough to
(14:57):
bring back unless you franchised him, which they could done
at at a greater expense, which means other things can't
be done. I get that, or a more reasonable price
for Daniel Jones. And what have I said from the beginning.
If your quarterback is playing well too, that'll go away fast.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
But if you're if yours is.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Injured and not available, as has largely been the case,
that's my biggest gripe on McCarthy. He's just I mean,
the Vikings have had to do other things, consider other
things because he just hasn't been available to them. Then
you're gonna You're gonna it's gonna play out this way.
It's gonna be this way. It's gonna be agonizing and painful.
The rest of the uh the season as well. Let
(15:41):
me see if I have one other text here. You know,
Lovel's covering something right now. I wonder is he confirmed
for five point thirty? Do we know of you texted him?
That's what I've got. I mean, I can send him,
send him a text just to remind him. I think
he's covering a hockey game right now. He's he's he's
live tweeting hockey game, that's for sure. Real quick on
Bflow feels like the NFL in general may have figured
(16:02):
out Beflow's mysterious complex as a scheme. Is this the
way it usually goes? Someone does something new or different.
It's effective for a year, maybe two, But eventually with
all the other sexy coordinators, all the other savvy coordinators
could be sexy two. Either your scheme has to evolve
or you fall behind. Love b flow and many of
our pieces, but other teams seem to be easily solving
our defensive puzzle. That's from red Rover out of red Wing.
(16:25):
Well to that extent, you'd say you'd like to get
more solid and more fundamental and basic, although that's what
bflow said he was intending to do with our ability.
You know we're trying to stop the run now. I
think went into the Eagles game, which they did do,
but at a huge expense obviously, So then you start
to wonder about the pieces as well as the plane itself.
(16:46):
Ben Gesling Media Jackal back from Los Angeles, California. We'll
check in with him, get his reaction out. He's had
a little time to process it and think about it
to the current plight of the Minnesota Vikings and how
they go forward from here.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Questions for Ben.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Six four six eighty six is the Bradshaw and Bryant
Cafe and text line.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Bonus Box is back on kfan. We have nine chances
for you to win one thousand dollars every weekday. That's
every hour from nine am till five pm. Tenner keywords
to learn more ato kfan dot com. Bonus Box is
presented by two men in a junk truck.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Standard heating and air Conditioning brings us Ben Gestling each
and every week on the Bumper to Bumper program and
on the Paul Allen Project as well. Ben kind enough
to join us via the Connectico Water Systems hotline. Were
you participating in today's zoom presser?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
The day after.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
I was involved in it. Yes, I was mostly monitoring
as I was just getting back gotch but didn't ask
any questions. But yes, was all yours for it.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
I'm wondering if I want you to hear a bit
of sound from early in the presser, if you remember it,
and whether it at all made you WinCE a little bit.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Brett Blakemore, Let's play.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
That many things on the film are correctable.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
So for a lot of our listeners you might not
be shocked to learn it was a stunning, jarring throwback
moment that had them breaking out in hives and thinking
about the Christian ponder era.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I don't know if it hit you the same way.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I don't know if the coach has any understanding of that,
the use of that term, because it's not a new term.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
A lot of people use it.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
No, but here it seems it's almost like we need
some kind of a trigger warning anytime anybody in the
current administration gets anywhere near easily correctable.
Speaker 6 (18:50):
Yes, there are certain words, and my mind went there
as well. There are certain words in Viking's War that
just kind of have that evocative feeling that do have
that trigger, the easily correctable one with Ponder is certainly
there anytime somebody says anything about a tweak. I think
about the Neil Hunter and Mike Zimmer who thought a
hernia was just a tweak. So yeah, there are certain
(19:13):
words that when those come up, and it may be
completely unintentional, but people that weren't here for that. Certainly,
Kevin O'Connell was not here for Christian Pond. In fact,
I think was, you know, probably wrapping up his career
around the time that Christian Ponder was talking about things
that were easily correctable. But yeah, I my mind does
go there when I heard it, I think he said it.
(19:34):
He might have said it last night too, but yeah,
when I hear it, that's the first thing I think of,
it's too good.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
All right, I want to read you.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
A lot of texts have come in that I asked
for questions for you, and we're going to try to
get to some of them.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
And the first time I'm going.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
To read is going to sound I think a little
bit uh, sky is falling, and maybe a little bit uh.
It'll feel like an overreaction, but I do think it
leads to something I want to ask you. Here's the text,
Unpopular no that's Harrison Phillips related.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Where did it go? No, No, that's I thought I
favored it.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
It was.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Basically I can't find it now.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I thought I had saved it, But the basic premise
of it was, I gotta admit, you know, I'm always
going to be a Vikings fan, you know, through thick
and thin. That's never oh here it is. I'll always
root for the Vikings. But last night didn't bother me
a bit, as again shows that we should have hired
the quirky coach who wins everywhere and not the with it.
(20:39):
And while culture is everything coach now that may well
be an overreaction to what took place last night, but
there's an element of what I've received today a little
bit after the Eagles game that I think speaks to
something you and I have talked about before. This regime
has been together for a while now, this coach and
(20:59):
this general manager. There are no playoff victories on the
resume to fall back on. There's none of that equity,
even if there's a lot of regular season victories, and
I think part of the story going forward, especially if
they can't sort of, you know, right the ship at
least enough to either be back in the race or
at least to show here's why we invested in JJ McCarthy.
(21:23):
It's going to get louder, it's going to get a
little tougher and a little bit more difficult. And you Jackals,
I think, are going to be a little bit more
aggressive as well. And after a game like last night,
I'm not particularly surprised that that's the way it can.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
It can shift very quickly.
Speaker 6 (21:39):
Yeah, I have saw a lot of it last night
on social media. I mean it was the level of
anxiety and a level of angst to was not hard
to find. And yes, I think it is getting to
that point because this is your four of it. And
you know, they're in this ship a little bit because
(22:00):
they had success with kind of temporary quarterbacks, but those
didn't result in playoff wins. And those are the things
that when we talked about equity, those are the things
that get you some equity. And I think everybody over
there knows that. I think everybody is pretty clear eyed
about the fact that you need playoff success to lead
(22:23):
to sustainable goodwill and for people to feel good about,
you know, the regime going forward. You know, I've had
these conversations with people in that building and say, yeah,
but the regular season success is great, but it doesn't
mean a whole lot unless you can go deep in
the playoffs and probably do so with a quarterback that
you know is going to be your guy for the
long term. So yeah, I think all of that is
(22:45):
shifting a little bit, and I don't think anybody's terribly
surprised by it. I think, you know, some of the
irritation from the head coach lately, as we talked about,
has been this sort of narrative of whether McCarthy it's
actually injured, and people kind of saying, well, is this
actually a thing that has been keeping them out? Which
it is. But I think some of that's coming from there.
(23:06):
I don't know that the expectations are anything that they
are alarmed by or surprised by. That's part of this job,
and it's completely fair for people to say, you know what,
this is year four of this. It's you haven't seen
the level of payoff yet. I mean, you know by
this point, I mean, they've had more success in the
(23:27):
regular season than my Zimmer, but Mike Zimmer had been
to an NFC title game. I think at the end
of year four. So you do get to a point
where the playoff wins matter, and the fact that they're
not here yet people start to say, Okay, we need
to see some results here. Just gouttle everything down.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
What from last night should be at the top of
the concern list for your average Vikings fan?
Speaker 1 (23:53):
What was it for you?
Speaker 6 (23:55):
Well, well, both lines of scrimmage, to me are the
things that pop about. I'm actually written about that for
Sunday in the sense that you know, we heard all
offseason and they put a lot of money behind it
of fixing both of these lines, I mean the interior
offensive line with the big priority, and they also wanted
(24:15):
to add pass rush on the defensive line, and they
make the moves that they did for Bill Fries and
Ryan Kelly and drafting Donama Jackson. A Donoma Jackson I
think has been has been pretty solid to this point,
but you have a lot of questions with injuries in
that group. And then on the defensive side of it,
we have not seen much from Javon Hargrave. In fact,
(24:36):
I think last night he was on the field for
like forty some percent of the snaps and it was
one of his lower snap usages. Of the season Jalen Redmond.
I think it's taken a lot of his playing time.
But you have a lot of players that got a
lot of money, and it's going to put them back
in a tough cat situation after this year. So when
(24:59):
you've made those moves and those players aren't producing, and
a lot of them are not twenty five years old,
you have players who are in their early thirties or
in their late twenties when they are kind of staring
at a little bit of a tipping point with that group,
even after all of the investments they made. And that
(25:19):
is the piece to me that shows up because the
Chargers basically said, we can run the ball with heavy
personnel as much as we want. We're not afraid of
trying to play bullyball with you. And then on the
other side of it, the Chargers have been one of
the worst run defenses in the NFL. The Vikings basically
decided they couldn't do that with the number of guys
that they were missing, especially when Suja Ham's out, Josh
(25:42):
Oliver's out, and they said, okay, we've got to go
try to throw the ball and keep keep Carson Wentz
protected in the backfield. Obviously they weren't able to do
that either. So the fact that they got beat at
bad Lee, if they did up both lines from a
team that kind of hung it out on, We're going
to be better in both of these spots. That's the
(26:04):
part that stuck out, and I think as you go
forward with some of the questions that will come along
both of those lies the scrimmage. It makes it all
the more concerning for them into the future.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
I remain stunned by the decision to not bring Wentz
over to the bench, because obviously Wentz wasn't going to
take himself out. A lot of players pride themselves on that.
I think he has shown an incredible level of toughness,
but the head coach always has a right to say,
come on over, that's it for tonight. I'm still stunned
(26:38):
by it, not because I think Brosmer was going to
bring them back in the game, but to me, it
reached a point where you go, put the kid in hand,
the ball off, throw a few swing passes, let's go home.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
We're not We're done. We're not going to win this game.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
And I don't, for the life of me, understand that
a coach who's kind of made his whole persona. I'm
the humanitarian coach, right, I know how to treat players
the right way.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
I'm not old school in that regard.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
I guess I'm still kind of gobsmacked that he didn't
pull him, and I found his explanation last night a
little bit not very solid either.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
What did you make of that? What do you think
that's about?
Speaker 6 (27:17):
Well, I think you know what he alluded to was
with Brozmer. If you put him in there, you're setting
him up to have a pretty tough go of it
when the pressure had been as steady as it was
and you're trying to make decisions. That scenario does not
assume kind of what you're talking about, where you just say, hey,
let's punt it out and keep it simple and go
(27:38):
home and kind of wave the way flag. I don't
think he was looking at it, or at least because
I think I was the one that asked the questions.
But did you think about making the move independent of
Carson Wentz's injury on a performance basis? Did you think
about putting Max Bergmer in just feeling like maybe he
would have a better chance to move the offense and
you know, he was thinking about it at that point
(28:00):
from the standpoint of Okay, if I did it earlier
in the game, you're not probably just waving a white
flag at that point. But yeah, I think a lot
of it goes to the idea of am I going
to mess up a young quarterback. I think there's a
lot of that thought process that goes into his decisions
with certainly with JJ McCarthy and then with Max Brosmer.
(28:21):
You know that maybe to a point where you overcorrect.
I think that's certainly a fair argument that you could have.
I think a lot of his thought process is I
don't want to put a young quarterback in a situation
where it's basically all right, kid, you're in the deep end.
Try to, you know, bend for yourself or find a
life preserver somewhere. I think that went into a lot
of it, and Wentz kept saying I could go back
(28:43):
in it's just pain. I can make my way through it.
But yeah, when he was getting hit as much as
he was, and he was obviously in the pain that
he was, it was hard to watch. And I think
a lot of that as he comes through it, he
said he probably has not been in that much pain
in a game before, and O'Connell did wonder on the
interception if some of the injury and some of them
(29:05):
maybe to follow through mechanics because of that front shoulder
affected things there. So yeah, it is it was a
tough one to think about. I use the analogy a
number of times in the press box. It felt like
a starting pitcher that had gotten hit around, and you say, hey,
you just got to go out there and give us
a few mornings so we could say the bullpen. The difference,
of course, is that when you were doing that as
(29:26):
a quarterback in that setting, you are getting hit around
a different commutation and that becomes pretty difficult for the
guy that has to go out there.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
And do it.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Let me run by you.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
A theory that is gaining traction in golfer Land.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I'm kind of curious to get your view of. I
don't know. If you've heard it, and I think I've
heard it, okay, then.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
You kind of know where I'm The theory is, there's
only one rational reason for why the head coach did
not insert Rosmer fear that if Brozmer plays well, he's
then stuck with another quarterback controversy. That has nothing to
(30:08):
do with Carson Wentz that he was going to probably
had a chance to play so well that therefore we'll
find out the truth that as much cat draft capital
as if I can spend on on JJ, they actually
should have. Well, I guess they didn't need to do
the cat draft capital on the free agent quarterback.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
That's the beauty of it, that.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
That's really the guy better equipped right now to take
this team to the Promised Land.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
Your thoughts, well, yeah, I mean I've heard it. I've
seen it quite a bit, and I think we're you know,
we're kind of basing that on preseason football for the
most part. We're probably basing that on a little bit
of Robot skutty my Goo Gophers. But yeah, I've heard
a lot of it. I don't know that. I necessarily
think preseason football gives us enough of a window into
(30:56):
what the regular season would look like to say one
transfer to the other. I remember that with back in
the Kyle Flotter days, where people would say, boy, this
guy is tearing it up. Why isn't he a certain quarterback?
When he looks this good.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Gretta if you want to go back fair enough, yeah,
before your time Gino Tretta was unbelieved and he was
a Heisman Trophy guys, I recall, wasn't he and yeah,
and we all had fun with that.
Speaker 6 (31:17):
Yeah, yeah, So I think there's a little bit of that,
But yeah, I think it is. It's different in the
regular season when you're not getting the number of reps
in practice that you're getting in the preseason. I think
a lot of what Max Grosmer is doing is Yeah,
I've had the conversation with him. He's probably working, he's
(31:38):
off working on the side quite a bit. You're not
getting much other than maybe a little bit of scout
team stuff. But as the third quarterback in the regular season,
you're not getting prepped the way that the starter is
just because there aren't the number of reps in those
practices to do it. So I don't think it's necessarily anything.
We've had a lot of fun with JJ McCarthy related conspiracy,
(32:00):
whether it's injuries or whether it's Max Brosmer. I understand
the sentiment. I do think Max Brosmer has some promise,
but I don't know that that is the exact reason
that he's trying it up this much, Because if that
were the case, I think we've seen evidence with this
coaching staff where I mean Jalen Redmond's an example of this.
(32:21):
They signed Javon Hargrave. Redmond was an undrafted free agent.
He is playing better than just about anybody they have,
and he's taking staffs away from a guy. And they
gave a lot of money too. So I don't think
they are shy about saying, if you're the best one
out there, you're going to play. Yeah. I don't know
that the conspiracy theory, as much fun as it might be,
(32:41):
has legs on this one.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
No, I tend to agree with you. Is it again?
Speaker 3 (32:49):
The league is set up in a way where a
game like that that was so thorough as you laid
out very nicely in your game story in your analysis,
feels like more than one game, right, Yeah, but it
did feel so thorough to me that you're in this
this strange period where I don't think there's anything the
(33:10):
head coach can say.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Now.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
He goes tends to go word salad. He's the other
extreme of ZIM. I actually think here's what's odd. I
think as much as ZIM got ripped and fans are
ready to say good riddance, I think what they're looking
for right now is a little more zim you know,
fire and brimstone, and that's of course just not Koc's nature.
I mean, he did, I guess last night go with
(33:32):
the old you know, I didn't have the team ready
to play, which he doesn't usually play that card all
that often. But yeah, where do I mean is this season?
Do you view this in terms of being a credible
playoff threat? Do you think this is still salvageable here
or are we at pretty close to a point where look,
(33:53):
we know it's McCarthy's team now for sure. Wentz has
come back to the pack in a big way. So
this just play the thing out and if there's some
JJ struggles, at least we're gaining that experience and we
can try to, you know, really restart the clock at
the start of next season.
Speaker 6 (34:10):
Well, I mean, you look at the standings in the NFC,
it is getting a little harder to see a path
to the playoffs. To use the Steve Kornacki path to
victory sort of phrasing, they are twelve tied for twelve
the NFC right now. They're behind Atlanta, who they already
lost to. They're behind the Lions, who it'll play next week.
(34:34):
Obviously they'll play the Seahawks, and you know, trying to
just look to the standings that play the Packers here
in a couple of weeks. But the schedule is tough
enough that they'll have opportunities. Certainly they'll play a lot
of these teams that they would have to overtake to
get to the playoffs. But the flip side of that
is you're not looking at last year's schedule where it's
(34:56):
the AFC South and a lot of teams they can
beat up on. In fact, there aren't many teams left
on the schedule, probably other than the Giants that they're
going to go into a game as favorites. I think
that's gonna happen quite a bit where they are the
underdogs and they're gonna have to play with a level
of consistency we have not seen to this point if
they want to make a run. Because if you're probably
(35:18):
talking about I mean there are seven six teams in
the NFC already with five wins and one with four,
but call it four and a half with the Packers.
So you're sitting behind quite a large portion of the NFC,
and you're gonna have to play at a pretty high
level to overtake those teams, especially with two NFC losses
(35:39):
already on the Ledgers. So I think they would have
to play well enough to make a run and probably
do it with Jaj McCarthy is the quarterback that if
they do make a run, it's gonna make everybody feel
a lot better about a lot of things, in part
because the quarterback will have to play that well. But
to ask him to come back in and you know,
(36:01):
you've kind of gone from this thing of they wanted
it to be supportive for him. They wanted to be
kind of this smooth on ramp. Now he's going to
come back in and say, Okay, kid, we haven't won
in poor Field since twenty twenty eight. You've got to
come back in and be the igniter of some hope,
at least for the fan base. I don't know if
the team will be thinking about it that way, but
I think there's going to be some of that from
the fan base with McCarthy. So that's a lot to ask,
(36:24):
and it's a lot to expect from a team that
has not been consistent on either line of scrimmage. We've
seen issues on special teams, with the penalties we've seen,
coverage bucks, I mean, there's a lot of things that
have to get fixed for a large stretch of the
season against a very, very tough schedule that I think
if they're going to make a run, it's going to
(36:45):
take a level of play we haven't seen to this point,
and I don't have a lot right now to go
off of to say, yeah, they're gonna do that. I mean,
it's it's possible. You know, teams the NFL is weird.
Teams get hot and figure things out and prove people
along all the time. But just looking at what we've
seen to this point, it's hard to see an obvious
(37:05):
path for that to happen.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Somebody who's listening to us is frustrated, I guess, with
both of us, but suggesting that, you know, how, given
the injuries along the line of scrimmage, how can you
possibly expect anything better than the way it's gone for
the Vikings? And obviously I think I get it to
at least a degree on the offensive line side, But
that doesn't explain the defensive front, does it.
Speaker 6 (37:30):
No, it doesn't. I mean that would be where I
would come back to that too, is. This is a
team that was second in the league against the run
last year and they're twenty fourth right now, So that
is as big of an issue, I think as anything.
I mean, you look at the Chargers run for two
hundred and seven yard last night, and really Justin Herbert
was sacked twice, but otherwise had room to scramble, had
(37:51):
room to sit in the pocket. I think a lot
of the things that you hang your having with this
team are on the defensive side of the ball, and
they've had some things there. I think Van Ginkel being
out has been a big factor, and Blake Cashman being
out certainly as a factor as well. It's not anywhere
near to the level that they've faced it on the
(38:11):
offensive line, So I put a lot of it there. Yeah,
I understand what he's saying about the pressure and all
of the machinations they've had to come up with on
the offensive line. They still have not had a single
snap where the five starters they want have been on
the field together. So that's really really difficult for any
NFL team to work past. You never see NFL teams
(38:33):
with enough offensive line depth in this day and age
to survive that, and I think that's that's a valid point.
But the fact they've been as porous as they have
against the run and we've seen some coverage bucks in
the last couple of weeks. I don't know that that
is one you just pass off of injuries. I think
that's a deeper issue that comes down to a lot
(38:54):
of wider things than just health.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
So we're it Is it fair to say that we're not.
I mean you mentioned at the start, and you're going
to write about this for Sunday Line of Scrimmage again,
huge issue, both offensive line and defensive line. That the
early signs if and again we're almost we're getting close
to halfway through the season or will be fairly soon,
(39:19):
that the early signs regarding the acquisitions we made, The
signings that we made very disappointing, whether it's due to
injury in some cases or just invisible in the case
a couple of the defense interior defensive linemen.
Speaker 6 (39:33):
Correct, Yeah, I think that's right. I mean you had
it certainly with some of the injuries. Ryan Kelly obviously
is the most significant one at least of the new acquisitions.
On the offensive line, Will Prides has been the one
guy that's been on the field and stay healthy among
those offensive linemen. But yes, the defensive line. I mean
Javon Hargrave is as a cap number this year of nineteen.
(39:59):
Now that that my cat number almost eight million dollars
this year, and then next year it goes to twenty one,
and that'll be a larger discussion for later. I think
you're probably talking about them having to do something with
that contract. But the way he's played or the way
he's kind of played himself out of that rotation a
little bit, especially agains the run, Yeah, that's been disappointing.
(40:20):
And then Jonathan Allen's probably been a little bit better,
but not to the degree that I think they would
have hoped for when they gave him fifty one million
dollars or three years. I think both of those signings
have not been what they were hoping. They wanted interior
pass rush from those guys, and they've got a couple
of sacks at piece, but they certainly have not been
the consistent disruptors that they wanted, and against the run,
(40:44):
they have been part of the struggle. So yeah, I
think a lot of those things have not worked out
the way they hoped, and they're going to have a
lot of questions after this year because they've got I
think three hundred and forty seven million dollars of cap
commitments for next year already, and you're going to have
conversations pretty quickly on some of these players they signed
(41:04):
and saying is the second year of this contract worth it?
Or do we need to think about doing some other things?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Good work. Hopefully you can get some sleep.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
We'll look forward to what you're writing for Sunday and
we'll let chat next week.
Speaker 6 (41:16):
Thanks man, all right, sounds good.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Thanks Dom, Ben Gestling, Star Tribune and of course startobune
dot com. Brought to you by Standard Heating and Air Conditioning.
A Lavelle is tentatively scheduled for five thirty. Do we
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!