November 21, 2025 • 38 mins
Bumper to Bumper with Dan Barreiro!
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
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(00:22):
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Speaker 2 (00:37):
Good callback from a good memory from Texter Todd. Carl
called Moss a great player, and mister fun cold called Carl,
pretending to be then president of football Operations mister Ted
Thompson and forced Carl to say Randy Moss is a
great player, and of course Carl believed Ted Thompson actually
called him. I forgot about that. That's really good recall,
(01:00):
that is for sure. Bretchawn Brian Kavn text line is
open at six four six eight six. Can we get TJ.
Rubley to start for the Packers again? When was that?
Do you remember? TJ?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Rubley?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I don't be too young. Yeah, listen to the station though.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
TJ. Rubley was a good one as as well. So
we got the while tonight on the fan. Correct, that
is correct. We've got the Wolves on the Timberwolves channel. Later,
they're in Phoenix. I don't know the start time on
that game, but they're eighth Central. Okay, the Phoenix Sun.
(01:39):
By the way, the Phoenix Sun's actually off to a
better start. I think they're above five hundred. Actually not
here to say they're great, but they're not. They don't
look to be pushovers. And we're still waiting for the
Wolves to win their first game against a team with
a winning record as well. That continues to be a
bit of an issue. I'll add that I now view well,
(02:04):
we know the Vikings game is a must win game
for the Purple right. I'll add that I think the
Gopher game at Northwestern actually technically at Wrigley Field against
Northwestern is also a must win situation for the Gophers.
(02:25):
And you say, well, Dan, what do you mean must
win and what's going to happen if they lose? Well,
if you lose, you can't get to eight victories, which
means you're at seven. I can even do that math, right,
If you take care of Wisconsin next week and you're
going to go to a mean even in the meaningless
Bowl on the meaningless Bowl list, the meaningless ball pecking
(02:49):
order they are, that would be then a completely meaningless
game that you would play. At seven victories, you might
be able to move up a little bit with eight
because it looks like there's gonna be three Big Ten
teams that make the postseason tournament Indiana, Ohio State, and Oregon. Right,
So that's one reason it's a must win. But I'll
(03:11):
give you another one. It's now official that Indiana University,
for the first time in forever, is no longer the
losingest college football program in American football history. They've had
that distinction for a long time. The problem is they
(03:34):
keep winning undefeated this year, and Northwestern is losing enough
that for the moment right now, Northwestern has replaced Indiana
as the losingest college football program regardless of conference. So
the Gophers in twenty twenty five don't want that on
(03:56):
their resume, do they. You are required to go to
Wrigley Field and win that game, or among your losses,
one will be to the worst in terms of losses
program in the history of college football, right, I mean
that that should I think that pretty much explains it.
(04:17):
And it would also mean that we would drop to
zher to five I think on the road. Right. So
all those reasons, I think are make it a a
as every bit as much a must win situation for
the Gophers as it is for the Vikings. Now we
(04:37):
looked it up, I think you told me Northwestern was
three or four point favorites in this game. I don't
know if the movement, if the line has moved at
all since then. So we'll have to see. Somebody's saying TJ.
Rubley was around nineteen hundred and ninety four. I've got
(04:57):
bad news that's moved even more. Northwestern now four point
fit really four point favorites?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Huh?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Interesting, So we'll see where it goes. I guess what
I'm saying is it's a big weekend for both of
our favorite football teams. The Gophers on Saturday game you
can hear on the fan pregame of nine, and Vikings
on Sunday Green Bay pregame ten kickoff just past high noon?
(05:26):
What time do the is Bear Steelers? Is that also
a noon start? Will you double check it is okay,
and do we have the update on a ROJ Is
he expected to start for the Steelers? He said, You
know he had famously the quote I own you taunting
Bears fans a while back. That was several years ago.
(05:47):
Listen is questionable, So listen to this questionable and it's
left is it's his left wrist. I think so we'll
see where that goes. But I think that is a
as you said you looked at. That's a noon start
as well. Let's get a pause in don't forget. Ben
Gesling is going to join at the bottom of the hour.
Interesting pick by Ben at stardibute dot com for this game.
(06:10):
He has to pick a game every week, the Vikings
game every week and an interesting conclusion he reaches, which
we'll talk about with him at four point thirty, and
we'll get the very latest on a puck with Russo
Radio that is scheduled for five.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
O'clock one night, one stage one Epic Band, My Chemical
Romance target Field, August twenty fourths driver tickets for their
Gone Hell details today KFA dot com. Kee Recountered.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Is losing this based on percentage or number of losses.
That's a very fair question. I can't remember, but we'll
try to find it. I thought it was timely just
because obviously Indiana is having this breakthrough back to back seasons,
and I guess I didn't realize until this year that
(07:14):
Indiana was the losingest. I mean, I knew it was
inept and it was bad, but I guess I was unaware.
And I think maybe some of that has to do
with how far back you go and how many games
you play. That that's a big part of it as well. Wow,
there's some angry Northwestern fans checking in.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Dan.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Northwestern has gone to the Rose Bull and won the
Big Ten a couple times in my lifetime. The Gophers
have never gotten close. That's there's some more viciousness there
that is. That is for sure. Game means nothing for
either team. They are what they are now. Does he
mean the Packers Vikings game or does he mean the
(07:56):
Gophers Northwestern? Northwestern, by the way, still need one more
victory to get a bowl game, and I can't remember
who they Oh, they play Illinois next week, so I'm
sure they're figuring they're the more desperate team, because technically,
if you care about meaningless bowl games, the Gophers are
(08:18):
are already there, and Northwestern needs to get there with
with another one more victory, either this week or or
next as well. You get to a couple of other
texts via the Bradshawn Bryant KFE and text line. I'll
mention again if you have other vikings, packers memories from Lambeau,
(08:40):
because that's where the game is played, keep them coming.
I think we've covered a lot of the good ones
and the infamous ones. The weather forecast continues to be
very promising, sort of like here. Right it's supposed to
be in the fifties, pretty ballmy and and I don't
think a lot of win that. I don't think pre
sip is going to be an issue right there has
there is no indication that there's any going to be
(09:02):
any kind of a precipitation problem as well, so I
guess it would be called good football weather. I actually
like it to be a little chillier than that. But
that's the forecast that we're getting kind of similar to here,
because I think we're supposed to be in the fifties
(09:23):
all weekend correct, before the by Thanksgiving, I think we're
much colder again again. Here is PJ coaching for Coyle's
job and therefore his own. That's an interesting way to
put it. I don't. I don't have any knowledge of that.
I wonder if that Texter does. I don't think I
(09:48):
doubt it, but maybe there is something I don't know
about the way Mark Coyle is viewed that that would,
you know, be a better probably better question for for
guards you. I'm not aware of anything there. And to
pair the two, I get it. You're saying, well, that's
the guy who brought him here again. I'll continue to
(10:08):
say I don't think. Here's what's changed. I think with
PJ a little bit. I was talking to a source,
so she'll remain nameless about this issue. I think one
of the things that's changed is that I no longer
believe that PJ is a fashionable choice for other jobs.
(10:32):
I'm not saying he couldn't get another job someplace else,
but I don't think for whatever reason, he's viewed as
let's put this way, when his name gets speculated upon
this year, I think it's just been habit by media
jackals who are just looking for the list. Oh yeah,
put PJ on the list, because he's usually on the list.
I don't sense that he's a hot commodity. I guess
(10:56):
is what I'm trying to say at this point. Doesn't
mean he's a bad coach. He's not a bad coach,
but I don't get the feeling that. But this way,
if he gets another contract extension, it's going to be
one of those one year ones that are kind of
meaningless without a lot of money involved. I don't it's
I don't think it's like, Okay, look at he's he's
(11:17):
on the short list. I don't since he's on a
lot of short lists. And one of the issues that
we haven't really talked probably very much about, but I'm
even hearing from from from Gopher Rubes, is whether this
team has capitalized on its nil, spent the nil on
the right people. Have they maximized their how have they
(11:41):
done in the portal? We know they don't have the resources.
Don't text me, I know of schools like Ohio State
or Oregon. Although again, as as Glenn Mason pointed out
to us, Minisso has always been at a disadvantage, but
we are still I think we still evaluate and one
of the issues we get into it's a very sportsy
(12:02):
addition of enough set tonight, which by the way, will
be on regular time on Fox nine at nine thirty.
They tell me, I think after a college basketball game,
it's that we're at a point now where I feel
as if the people who say, how can we compete
(12:23):
with Oregon? How can we compete with Ohio State? Most
of us aren't even asking him to win those games,
but we are asking him to hang in for a quarter,
a quarter and a half. Make it interesting. Maybe you
shock the world, or maybe you you bring a game,
you you compete enough to make the game still seem
(12:45):
viable in the third quarter. And they're not doing any
of those things. The quote, what was the quote from
that got my attention? I think it was I just
saw this. I think this was from earlier this week.
Let me see if I can I can find it
here on the fly, because it definitely got my attention,
(13:05):
and I'm not sure that I completely understood it. Here's
the quote from PJ, and I think this is it's
his attempt to sort of explain away the blowout losses
on the road. We've been edged on the road one
fifty two to thirty three. Our scars remind us of
(13:27):
where we've been and that sounds high falutin that it
really does, and it sounds very philosophical. But in your
ninth year, aren't we supposed to kind of be passed
having to be scarred one fifty two to thirty three
in the road games? The old well remember where you were,
(13:49):
because you know you have to be sometimes you got
to go to the depths to then dig deep, plant
your feet and appreciate when you hit when you headed
in the other direction. I just don't think that level
of scars. I thought we were supposed to be passed,
which is very different than saying we got to go
(14:11):
ahead and win two of those three games. I'm not
going to ask you to win one of those three games.
I'm asking to be competitive in one of those three.
And they weren't. And then the first game was at Cal,
which they ended up losing by fourteen. A little deceptive
on the score. They weren't out of that game totally,
but they really didn't come very close to it to
winning it as well. So I know what concerns me
(14:32):
is if they beat Northwestern, it's going to be well.
Right of the Ship responded nicely to what took place
in Oregon. You beat a mediocre team on the road,
finally got a road win. That's great, but I don't
think it should change anything about what has largely taken
place this season. And that's what I would be if
I'm a Gopher ube, That's what would concern me. There's
ups and downs, we get it. But this is about
(14:55):
more than, you know, winning more games one year losing
a few more games the next year. This is about
not even being in the same stratosphere in any of
those four road games, certainly the three against Oregon, Ohio State,
and Iowa. And Iowa is a good team, but they're
not an unbeatable team. I mentioned this last week in
(15:16):
fact Oregon. I think Wisconsin went to Oregon lost by fourteen,
wasn't it twenty one to seven? So the idea that
you can't, I mean, how do they play with them now? Again,
Oregon's had a worse season. I get that, but it's
just too easy to say, well, Phil Knight, it's Oregon.
You know what are we going to do? Well, show up,
(15:38):
throw some wrinkle in surprise some people for at least
a quarter or a quarter and a half, and that
has not happened, not even one they've I guess you
could say they surprised us with the totality of their
victory against Nebraska. But I don't know how much you
can take that to the bank if you don't build
on it, and you don't then follow up with something
(15:58):
else that makes that scene more real than it feels today.
Ben Gooseling, that's what Gerbschmidt calls him. His real name
is Ben Gesling. He's going to join us next. If
you have Vikings questions National Football League questions, hit the
bratch on Brian cafean text line. That's six four, six
eighty six.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Time now for the Vikings Report on the Fan, presented
by Miller Lyte.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Vikings wide receiver Adam Thielend joins Dan Burrero Next and
peer up for a Peer Up four Winter at the
Satan Paul Ice Fishing and Winter Sports Show December fifth
through the seventh at the River Center. Over one hundred
(16:42):
and ninety exhibitors, huge giveaways including a twenty four thousand
dollars ice castle and expert seminars, and for your chance
to win a family four pack of tickets today on
our contest page kfan dot com. Keewer Contest apologies in
order to our next guest, Ben Gesling, joining us via
the Medico Water Systems hotline.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Forgot we had a big fat break at the bottom
of the hour, so I went a little bit lengthy.
We'll try to make it up to him. Of course,
Standard Heating and air Conditioning brings us Ben every week,
or as Gerby calls him Ben Gooseling, but we'll go
with Gasling. The proper pronunciation. How often in your lifetime
has your last name been mispronounced?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I would put it this way. It is a rare
occasion when people get it right. Really interests happened so
frequently that I have a text shortcut set up in
my phone so that when I'm going on a radio
show for the first time, the text the producer just
as an FYI, my last name is pronounced, and I
put it Guestling, like with the U instead of it oh,
(17:48):
so that it looks phonetically like Guessling. So usually people say.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Gospeling, Gostling. Yeah that I figured, not Gooseling. That's Gurby.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
So you related to Ryot Gosling. Yeah, No, it's called different.
I'll take it, I guess yeah, that's very fall take it.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, fair enough. Uh, yeah, that's I guess Gurby's the
only one. I think it calls you Gooseling or mostly
I could see where Gosling would be the one people
would kind of default to. That That probably makes sense,
makes more Uh makes more sense. All right, here's the deal.
We've got questions coming in early to the bransh On
(18:24):
Brian kfan text line for Ben keep them coming. That's
six four six eight six, A lot of projecting and
you know, you could say overreaction the last week or
two regarding the McCarthy saga, but it's the nature of
the business. And we talked about this that it was
(18:44):
probably inherently fair what was going to be expected of
JJ from the beginning. But that's the reality that to
a certain extent, I think the Vikings put him in.
So we're getting text like, all right, how many years
do you's a patient with him? And the larger question
he has is this is I believe nine to five
(19:06):
to two guy, is does the leash automatically become longer
because he's only twenty two years old? Because you know
and I know there are times where it is literally
a three year process for a young quarterback before you
figure out exactly what he's got. Can the Vikings afford
(19:26):
to wait that long or do you think the leash
does get longer simply because he's as young as from
a you know, chronological chronological age standpoint, he's as young
as he is.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Well, the thing that's going to change this a little bit,
and I wrote about this in my newsletter today, is contract.
I mean, they really are coming to a decision point
at the end of twenty twenty six already where they
have to make a call on his fifty year option.
Basically by May of I think twenty twenty seven, they
(19:58):
will have to decide if they're picking that up, and
that is fully guaranteed for his fifth season if they
do pick it up, So they will have to make
that decision based on what they see the rest of
this year and then all of next year. So in
terms of how long the leash is, the contract does
kind of stipulate some level of a decision point. They
can always pick up the option and say we're going
(20:20):
to give it one more year, but I think you
have to at least give him this year the rest
of next year before you know much of anything, both
because of that contract and just because it takes a while.
I mean, if people keep sending me questions about are
they going to bring in somebody to compete with him
for the job this year, I mean, I think you
could look at having another option at the position. But
(20:42):
I think if you're talking about a guy that they
draft the tenth overall, knowing that he was coming from
a system where he didn't throw the ball as much
as a lot of quarterbacks, knowing he was as young
as he was, and then you're going to say, Okay,
before it starts six, we have to start thinking about,
you know, pulling up the stakes. I just that's not realistic.
I mean, this is a longer process than that, and
(21:03):
there are a lot of things we've seen and continue
to see that need a lot of work. But I
don't think that's unusual for somebody in this spot, and
I don't think they were necessarily expecting it to be
a completely finished product right away. I mean, a lot
of the people you talk to in the building, it's, hey,
we know there are going to be some moments that
are pretty rough, and the hope is to kind of
(21:25):
keep a and even deal with the whole thing, and
then you're not reacting to the highs and the lows,
and that obviously is more important for the people on
the inside than the people on the outside. But when
all of that stuff it's floating, you have to interact
a little bit with the outside perceptions. I just think
that they understand this is going to take a while,
and I don't think anybody is going to pull up
(21:46):
stakes on it after this.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Well, I let me ask you this, though. I you're
there every day, so you speak to folks a lot
more than I do, so I'll trust your instincts on
this for sure. But my gut at least tells me
that they didn't expect it to be this rough, because
I honestly believe I'd agree with that because it's it's
(22:11):
you know, it's funny because I have hammered pretty hard
on JJ for a number of reasons, But in truth,
I think the Vikings are more rippable than he is.
If in fact, he's one of those highly unfinished quarterbacks
who's gonna need as much time as now people are projecting,
(22:32):
because then it's like, well, he is what he is,
and he didn't get the practice last year because he
was hurt. He hasn't had the reps so to a
certain extent, it's it's say, well, it's more a miscalculation
on the part of the Vikings that we can pull
this off. We might not win a super Bowl this year,
but we can pull this off immediately enough that that's
(22:53):
what we're gonna go with with all the other moves
we made, thinking that we had a pretty good core
of plays to put around him in the end, I
think that's really more a miscalculation on the team than
it is necessarily an indictment on what JJ McCarthy can become.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, I think all of that is fair. And when
I say it's a long process, I think there are
stages to that. I think to expect that he was
going to look this rough where we're talking about mechanics
every week, you know, a topic that's near here, you're
in Garthey's hearts, I know, when we're doing it that much,
I think that's probably a little bit more than they
(23:32):
expected they'd be doing that at this stage of it.
And you can talk about, you know, was there Hubrist
and saying we can pull this off, or was it
just a bigger project than they thought it was going
to be. I think all of those things are fair. Questions.
The piece of it that gets tricky is when you
are going to do the Jordan Love style apprenticeship with
(23:56):
let's sit him for three years. It gets hard to
do that because by the end of year three, like
we say, you're already making something of a decision. So
the contracts force you to speed up the timetable a
little bit. And they probably could have tried it for
another year. I mean, they could have gone out and said, hey,
Daniel Jones will give you the one year deal. We'll
(24:17):
tell you you're coming in as the guy, and then
maybe you make McCarthy sit one more year and get
that full kind of redshra year, more so than he
would have gotten last year with the injury. I suppose
they could have done that, but it also takes two
to tango. For that. Daniel Jones would have had to say, yes,
I believe I'm going to get the chance to start here.
I'm going to get the year that I want to
go out and get on the open market after this year.
(24:38):
So there's a lot of complicating factors that go into
trying to do it that way as well, And I
think there's certainly a lot that if they went back
on it. You wonder if they you know, knowing what
they know now, it's obviously easier to say that, But yes,
I think there's been a level of not elementary, but
(24:58):
a level of fundamental stuff. There's been more attention to
than probably they thought they were gonna have to pay.
I think that's probably fair a couple people.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
There have been two strains from people in terms of
their theories about how to in the short run, best
proceed with him, to give him the best chance to
be successful, and this team to perhaps recover a little
bit and try to get back in something resembling the
play a playoff chase. The first is, well, you saw
(25:29):
how you finished the game, and it was there's less
to think about. Then, he's just looking for open people.
We're in and out of the huddle, if we huddle
at all. And the second strain is roll him out.
You guys aren't rolling him out enough. He's athletic, Just
get him out of the pocket. Do more boots that
sort of thing. Do either of those arguments, you know,
(25:51):
carry weight with you? Is that in both cases oversimplifying?
What do you think.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
I think? Two minutes? Thing is I always do this
where it's well, they look so great in the two
minute drow, I don't they just do that the whole time.
I think that's harder to pull off in reality than
it is in theory, because you're talking about a limited menu,
probably both for the offense and for the defense. And
I suppose if you did it the whole time, you're
forcing the defense to play in a limited menu and
(26:17):
not being able to sub as much as you want.
But then you also have to be able to work
off of that menu for the quarterback and for the offense.
So I think that can work in one setting for
a short amount of time. I'm more skeptical about whether
it can work for a full game when you have
to run sixty some plays off of it. And the
other thing with that is at the end of games,
(26:38):
you're often in situations where defenses are playing back a
little bit because they don't want anything over their heads. Yeah,
they don't want to give up any big plays, So
you're not getting as tight a coverage, you're maybe not
getting quite the same degree of pass rush as you
might get another setting. So the transferability of that, I
think is always a little bit hard to estimate. As
far as the rollouts and bootlegs. I do think they're
(27:00):
there's more to do there. I think his athleticism is
something that you see him used to an advantage. If
you can roll him away from some of the pressure,
maybe you're tiring people out, you simplify the read so
it's a little more of a half field situation for him.
I do think that's been part of the plan. I
think that's something they've wanted to probably do more than
they have. And this discussion of can he go to
(27:24):
his left, I think is maybe what limits some of that.
Because you're going to just roll him to his right
all the time. People are going to start to sit
on that too, so there is some of the complicating
factor there if he is struggling to go to his left,
and we've certainly seen some of that where when he
goes to his left, he's not as natural as when
he moves to his right. So they have to figure
all of that out as well. But I do think
(27:45):
moving the pocket, moving him away from the pass rush
can be a useful thing and can simplify some things
and put his mobility to work. So I think that's
more of a likely option than going two minute. As
much as some people would maybe talk about them wanting
to do.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Ben Gessling joining us on the fan as he does
every Friday Russel Radio from the X coming up at
the top of the hour. Grenard, what do we think
he's listed? I think officially as questionable. What are we
hearing on his availability for Sunday in Lambeau.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah, I think he has a pretty good chance to play.
I think he was optimistic about the possibility this week.
We'll see how he comes through the weekend. They'll go
through probably a little more of a walkthrough tomorrow before
they hit the road for green Bay. But yeah, I
think he'll have a good chance to get back, and
if he does, that's a big factor because you know
we saw last week. I think Dallas Turner did some
good things, but they are different when they have him,
(28:39):
and they put a lot of pressure on Jordan Love
and a couple of those games last year. They got
after him at Lambo and they blitzed him a lot
at the game at us Bank Stadiums. So you add
Grenard to that pass rush, I do think that's a
big deal. I think they'll have a pretty good chance
to have him out there.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Something you picked via Startibute dot Com, it's already up.
You picked the Packers to win in a low scoring game.
What was your what's your thinking?
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Yeah, I mean, as I thought through this, I thought
there's a chance that the Vikings take this one because
of how banged up the Packers are. I mean with
Josh Jacobs being questionable because of that knee. The Packers
have another game on Thanksgiving Day against the Lions, so
they may be thinking a little bit about that is
they make decisions on injured players. You've got a number
of receivers that are banged up. Elton Jenkins, their centers
(29:25):
out for the year after getting hurting his knee a
couple of weeks ago. So I think the Vikings are
the healthier team, and they are more desperate than the Packers.
But in the end, I thought that defense for the
Packers is going to be a lot for the Vikings.
They have to deal with Micah Parsons having to know
where he is all the time. For Shawn Garry. They'll
have some other pieces. You know, Edrin Cooper the linebacker
(29:46):
has been awfully good, and I think their corners Carrington
Valentine has played better than a lot of people would
have expected too. So I think it's low scoring. But
the Packers have been a team that doesn't turn the
ball over very much. In fact, the games they've lost
have been some of the rare opportunities or rare occasions
that should say, where they've had turnovers. So if the
Vikings aren't able to create those, which they haven't done
(30:08):
a great job of lately, and if they turn it
over a couple of times, which they've done a lot,
I think that shape shapes the game. I think the
Packers win it most scoring. I think it's kind of
an ugly defensive struggle. But the Packers at home, especially
if they get enough out of Josh Jacobs to kind
of send the game that way, I've got them winning in.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
A close One text came in listening to our conversation
about JJ. He writes this, honestly, talk about how they're
going to give McCarthy all of this year next year
is nonsense. If he doesn't show improvement the rest of
the year, they're not going to let him waste another
year for the rest of the team. To quote your
guest Bill garn from yesterday, this is not a developmental
leg He was referring to the NHL but same is
(30:48):
true here. I would assume that you agree that there
is a certain level at which they might have to
reconsider everything if they don't see enough sign All right,
he's not the finished product. But we've seen some things
over the course of the last couple of months of
the season to say we think we can get there.
(31:10):
We see some signs. There's always, I guess, the possibility
that if he's continuing to play at the level he's
played to this point, that they might have to have
a come to Jesus meeting in the offseason.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Do you agree, Yeah, I mean there's always that possibility
that they see something that they think this is not fixable.
We've got to pull up stakes. I mean, you've seen
teams do that.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
I think of like Josh Rosa with the Cardinals in
the past. Yeah, you may see that happen. I just
think if we're gonna do the developmental quarterback thing, the
idea that five or six games or nine or ten
games by the end of the season, you know whatever,
we're gonna be probably twelve games and be going the
rest of the way, it is hard to feel like
(31:51):
there's a finished product there. We just see so much
evidence of this position, especially at the NFL level, taking
a long time to learn, master and perfect. And the
evidence of that is some of these quarterbacks that bust
with their first teams and then they figure it out
a little bit later in their careers. The Sam Donalds
Baker mayfield those types of guys who were Daniel Jones,
(32:14):
who are playing awfully well when they have fallen out
of favor in their initial market. In some cases, in
Donald's case, you know five or six teams by this point.
So it is a really tough position to learn at
a high end level at this stage of it. So
the tricky part of it is that you end up
with this short timetable to get a guy ready to
(32:36):
play on that rookie contract, and it makes it really
difficult to pull off. I just think if a team
is committing to a young quarterback and developing him, it
just feels too soon for them to pull up the
states completely unless it's so bad and it looks so
unredeemable that they say there's no coming back from this.
(32:58):
I don't think we're going to end up, and I
think there's been moments of indications that he can play.
He just has to get better with the accuracy, has
to get better at reading things out. But if they
see enough of those signs the rest of this year,
I do think they're going to say we need to
continue to commit to this thing and see where it goes.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Let's face it. I mean, to a certain extent, the
Viking's curse was finishing fourteen and three last year. To
this extent, once you want to, you know, hand the
keys over to the young guy. That's where they were
kind of stuck. Because it's hard after fourteen and three,
even if it ended badly in the postseason, to say
we're pulling up stakes and we're rebuilding and we're starting
(33:40):
over and we're taking them off yere. You know, that's
really hard to sell as probably hard as competitors for
them to you know, to sell that to themselves, let
alone to the public.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah. I think that's right. I mean, it's just really
interesting how this has gone because I think about that
team last year, they were predicted to win seven games.
I was among those that was not that enamored with
what they were doing, in part because of the questions
a quarterback. So they go out and play as well
as they do, and then that sort of reshapes the
it's the old Bud Grant thing. I think he used
to tell. I think he told Mike Zimmer this, or
(34:12):
maybe told Kevin O'Connell this as well, because he and
Kevin o'connall got pretty tight. Bud told them don't win
too quick because they the expectations really high, right, And
then that first year they win thirteen games, and so
there's been a couple of these back and forth type things.
Where is this for real? Is this sustainable? They kind
of felt after the first one in twenty two like
it was not. I think they certainly thought with the
(34:33):
moves they made this year, yes, we can go in
and win. But you do end up in that spot
where you say it's a fourteen win team or a
move or two away, and we could pull it off
with a young quarterback if we build everything up around
him enough to have everything else working as well as
it possibly could. So, yeah, I agree. It is a
(34:53):
tricky situation to be in when you go out and
have the unexpected success like they did, and then you're
there kind of talking yourself into yes, this can happen
for us. Now. It's always been a tough thing to
pull off, and I think you know, kind of where
you set expectations, the floor you set for yourself always
has a lot to do with how a season is perceived.
Kind of where you started and where you finished relative
(35:15):
to what you thought it would be makes a very
big difference in the final accounting of it.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
At the risk of being laid for the next segment
and annoying another one of our guests, I'm gonna throw
one other question because I think it's a good one,
and it's it's got nothing to do with JJ McCarthy. Hello,
Dan Ben, This is from J d H. Why does
b Flow keep only three or four corners? Also, clearly
d Turner can play Grenard's edge spot much better than
(35:40):
Van Ginkle's. Will this change the longer term plan? Or
was Turner only on a VG spot due to the injury?
Is Flow generally happy with Dallas Turner? A lot to
chew on there?
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Yeah, there's a few different threats to the question. I'll
try to hit them quickly so as not to I
guess there's a hot so we'll pay attention to that
if we need to. I suppose, but sorry fall in
this the chief shot there. But as far as Van
Ginko goes. He does a lot of things that are
pretty unique, and they've gotten Dallas Turner doing some of
those things. But yes, I do think he's been better
(36:15):
at the Grenard spot. I think playing on that side
is a better spot for him, and I think that's
probably where the long term fit is and you have
to figure out how long it takes to get him
ready to do that. But the sooner they can do that,
the more it helps them out financially in the long term.
And then the corners thing, yeah, I mean the move
to get rid of White mcglooy in this week, I
think they needed that spot for Ryan Kelly. That's where
(36:36):
that spot is going to go. But it is an
indication that they haven't felt good enough about his progress
and they do need to figure out depth there. I
think that is a major concern both the rest of
this year going forward Baby and Moreau is going to
have to play again. So I think that's a big
question for them in the rest of this year and
then going into the following years from that and what
(36:59):
was the Brian Flores pit after that?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
The why uh only keeping three or four is so
generally happy with Dallas Turner? Why keep only three or
four corners.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Yeah, yeah, so I think they are seeing progress with Turner.
I think they've wanted to see more probably, yeah, a
lot consistency and then yeah, the corner depth. The other
piece of it, I'd say really quickly is that when
they play three safeties as much as they do, they
kind of look at their nickel package and say, we
don't always have to have corners there as well. So
that plays into it. But certainly corner depth is a
big question going forward.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Excellent work, safe travels to Green Bay. Well chat at
some point next week, although we're obviously off late in
the week. Well, so we'll figure something out.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Thank you, We will negotiate.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Thanks Dan, appreciate you. Ben Gestling. Brought to you by
Standard Heating and air Conditioning Straight to the X. Well
it used to be called the X Now is it
called Was it Grand Casino Arena? Yes? And what is
the shortthand version of that? What are we preferring? Do
we have set? Asked Russo if he's got an opinion
on that and on the state of his favorite hockey team.
(38:03):
All of that is now
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Speaker 2 (00:37):
Good callback from a good memory from Texter Todd. Carl
called Moss a great player, and mister fun cold called Carl,
pretending to be then president of football Operations mister Ted
Thompson and forced Carl to say Randy Moss is a
great player, and of course Carl believed Ted Thompson actually
called him. I forgot about that. That's really good recall,
(01:00):
that is for sure. Bretchawn Brian Kavn text line is
open at six four six eight six. Can we get TJ.
Rubley to start for the Packers again? When was that?
Do you remember? TJ?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Rubley?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I don't be too young. Yeah, listen to the station though.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
TJ. Rubley was a good one as as well. So
we got the while tonight on the fan. Correct, that
is correct. We've got the Wolves on the Timberwolves channel. Later,
they're in Phoenix. I don't know the start time on
that game, but they're eighth Central. Okay, the Phoenix Sun.
(01:39):
By the way, the Phoenix Sun's actually off to a
better start. I think they're above five hundred. Actually not
here to say they're great, but they're not. They don't
look to be pushovers. And we're still waiting for the
Wolves to win their first game against a team with
a winning record as well. That continues to be a
bit of an issue. I'll add that I now view well,
(02:04):
we know the Vikings game is a must win game
for the Purple right. I'll add that I think the
Gopher game at Northwestern actually technically at Wrigley Field against
Northwestern is also a must win situation for the Gophers.
(02:25):
And you say, well, Dan, what do you mean must
win and what's going to happen if they lose? Well,
if you lose, you can't get to eight victories, which
means you're at seven. I can even do that math, right,
If you take care of Wisconsin next week and you're
going to go to a mean even in the meaningless
Bowl on the meaningless Bowl list, the meaningless ball pecking
(02:49):
order they are, that would be then a completely meaningless
game that you would play. At seven victories, you might
be able to move up a little bit with eight
because it looks like there's gonna be three Big Ten
teams that make the postseason tournament Indiana, Ohio State, and Oregon. Right,
So that's one reason it's a must win. But I'll
(03:11):
give you another one. It's now official that Indiana University,
for the first time in forever, is no longer the
losingest college football program in American football history. They've had
that distinction for a long time. The problem is they
(03:34):
keep winning undefeated this year, and Northwestern is losing enough
that for the moment right now, Northwestern has replaced Indiana
as the losingest college football program regardless of conference. So
the Gophers in twenty twenty five don't want that on
(03:56):
their resume, do they. You are required to go to
Wrigley Field and win that game, or among your losses,
one will be to the worst in terms of losses
program in the history of college football, right, I mean
that that should I think that pretty much explains it.
(04:17):
And it would also mean that we would drop to
zher to five I think on the road. Right. So
all those reasons, I think are make it a a
as every bit as much a must win situation for
the Gophers as it is for the Vikings. Now we
(04:37):
looked it up, I think you told me Northwestern was
three or four point favorites in this game. I don't
know if the movement, if the line has moved at
all since then. So we'll have to see. Somebody's saying TJ.
Rubley was around nineteen hundred and ninety four. I've got
(04:57):
bad news that's moved even more. Northwestern now four point
fit really four point favorites?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Huh?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Interesting, So we'll see where it goes. I guess what
I'm saying is it's a big weekend for both of
our favorite football teams. The Gophers on Saturday game you
can hear on the fan pregame of nine, and Vikings
on Sunday Green Bay pregame ten kickoff just past high noon?
(05:26):
What time do the is Bear Steelers? Is that also
a noon start? Will you double check it is okay,
and do we have the update on a ROJ Is
he expected to start for the Steelers? He said, You
know he had famously the quote I own you taunting
Bears fans a while back. That was several years ago.
(05:47):
Listen is questionable, So listen to this questionable and it's
left is it's his left wrist. I think so we'll
see where that goes. But I think that is a
as you said you looked at. That's a noon start
as well. Let's get a pause in don't forget. Ben
Gesling is going to join at the bottom of the hour.
Interesting pick by Ben at stardibute dot com for this game.
(06:10):
He has to pick a game every week, the Vikings
game every week and an interesting conclusion he reaches, which
we'll talk about with him at four point thirty, and
we'll get the very latest on a puck with Russo
Radio that is scheduled for five.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
O'clock one night, one stage one Epic Band, My Chemical
Romance target Field, August twenty fourths driver tickets for their
Gone Hell details today KFA dot com. Kee Recountered.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Is losing this based on percentage or number of losses.
That's a very fair question. I can't remember, but we'll
try to find it. I thought it was timely just
because obviously Indiana is having this breakthrough back to back seasons,
and I guess I didn't realize until this year that
(07:14):
Indiana was the losingest. I mean, I knew it was
inept and it was bad, but I guess I was unaware.
And I think maybe some of that has to do
with how far back you go and how many games
you play. That that's a big part of it as well. Wow,
there's some angry Northwestern fans checking in.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Dan.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Northwestern has gone to the Rose Bull and won the
Big Ten a couple times in my lifetime. The Gophers
have never gotten close. That's there's some more viciousness there
that is. That is for sure. Game means nothing for
either team. They are what they are now. Does he
mean the Packers Vikings game or does he mean the
(07:56):
Gophers Northwestern? Northwestern, by the way, still need one more
victory to get a bowl game, and I can't remember
who they Oh, they play Illinois next week, so I'm
sure they're figuring they're the more desperate team, because technically,
if you care about meaningless bowl games, the Gophers are
(08:18):
are already there, and Northwestern needs to get there with
with another one more victory, either this week or or
next as well. You get to a couple of other
texts via the Bradshawn Bryant KFE and text line. I'll
mention again if you have other vikings, packers memories from Lambeau,
(08:40):
because that's where the game is played, keep them coming.
I think we've covered a lot of the good ones
and the infamous ones. The weather forecast continues to be
very promising, sort of like here. Right it's supposed to
be in the fifties, pretty ballmy and and I don't
think a lot of win that. I don't think pre
sip is going to be an issue right there has
there is no indication that there's any going to be
(09:02):
any kind of a precipitation problem as well, so I
guess it would be called good football weather. I actually
like it to be a little chillier than that. But
that's the forecast that we're getting kind of similar to here,
because I think we're supposed to be in the fifties
(09:23):
all weekend correct, before the by Thanksgiving, I think we're
much colder again again. Here is PJ coaching for Coyle's
job and therefore his own. That's an interesting way to
put it. I don't. I don't have any knowledge of that.
I wonder if that Texter does. I don't think I
(09:48):
doubt it, but maybe there is something I don't know
about the way Mark Coyle is viewed that that would,
you know, be a better probably better question for for
guards you. I'm not aware of anything there. And to
pair the two, I get it. You're saying, well, that's
the guy who brought him here again. I'll continue to
(10:08):
say I don't think. Here's what's changed. I think with
PJ a little bit. I was talking to a source,
so she'll remain nameless about this issue. I think one
of the things that's changed is that I no longer
believe that PJ is a fashionable choice for other jobs.
(10:32):
I'm not saying he couldn't get another job someplace else,
but I don't think for whatever reason, he's viewed as
let's put this way, when his name gets speculated upon
this year, I think it's just been habit by media
jackals who are just looking for the list. Oh yeah,
put PJ on the list, because he's usually on the list.
I don't sense that he's a hot commodity. I guess
(10:56):
is what I'm trying to say at this point. Doesn't
mean he's a bad coach. He's not a bad coach,
but I don't get the feeling that. But this way,
if he gets another contract extension, it's going to be
one of those one year ones that are kind of
meaningless without a lot of money involved. I don't it's
I don't think it's like, Okay, look at he's he's
(11:17):
on the short list. I don't since he's on a
lot of short lists. And one of the issues that
we haven't really talked probably very much about, but I'm
even hearing from from from Gopher Rubes, is whether this
team has capitalized on its nil, spent the nil on
the right people. Have they maximized their how have they
(11:41):
done in the portal? We know they don't have the resources.
Don't text me, I know of schools like Ohio State
or Oregon. Although again, as as Glenn Mason pointed out
to us, Minisso has always been at a disadvantage, but
we are still I think we still evaluate and one
of the issues we get into it's a very sportsy
(12:02):
addition of enough set tonight, which by the way, will
be on regular time on Fox nine at nine thirty.
They tell me, I think after a college basketball game,
it's that we're at a point now where I feel
as if the people who say, how can we compete
(12:23):
with Oregon? How can we compete with Ohio State? Most
of us aren't even asking him to win those games,
but we are asking him to hang in for a quarter,
a quarter and a half. Make it interesting. Maybe you
shock the world, or maybe you you bring a game,
you you compete enough to make the game still seem
(12:45):
viable in the third quarter. And they're not doing any
of those things. The quote, what was the quote from
that got my attention? I think it was I just
saw this. I think this was from earlier this week.
Let me see if I can I can find it
here on the fly, because it definitely got my attention,
(13:05):
and I'm not sure that I completely understood it. Here's
the quote from PJ, and I think this is it's
his attempt to sort of explain away the blowout losses
on the road. We've been edged on the road one
fifty two to thirty three. Our scars remind us of
(13:27):
where we've been and that sounds high falutin that it
really does, and it sounds very philosophical. But in your
ninth year, aren't we supposed to kind of be passed
having to be scarred one fifty two to thirty three
in the road games? The old well remember where you were,
(13:49):
because you know you have to be sometimes you got
to go to the depths to then dig deep, plant
your feet and appreciate when you hit when you headed
in the other direction. I just don't think that level
of scars. I thought we were supposed to be passed,
which is very different than saying we got to go
(14:11):
ahead and win two of those three games. I'm not
going to ask you to win one of those three games.
I'm asking to be competitive in one of those three.
And they weren't. And then the first game was at Cal,
which they ended up losing by fourteen. A little deceptive
on the score. They weren't out of that game totally,
but they really didn't come very close to it to
winning it as well. So I know what concerns me
(14:32):
is if they beat Northwestern, it's going to be well.
Right of the Ship responded nicely to what took place
in Oregon. You beat a mediocre team on the road,
finally got a road win. That's great, but I don't
think it should change anything about what has largely taken
place this season. And that's what I would be if
I'm a Gopher ube, That's what would concern me. There's
ups and downs, we get it. But this is about
(14:55):
more than, you know, winning more games one year losing
a few more games the next year. This is about
not even being in the same stratosphere in any of
those four road games, certainly the three against Oregon, Ohio State,
and Iowa. And Iowa is a good team, but they're
not an unbeatable team. I mentioned this last week in
(15:16):
fact Oregon. I think Wisconsin went to Oregon lost by fourteen,
wasn't it twenty one to seven? So the idea that
you can't, I mean, how do they play with them now? Again,
Oregon's had a worse season. I get that, but it's
just too easy to say, well, Phil Knight, it's Oregon.
You know what are we going to do? Well, show up,
(15:38):
throw some wrinkle in surprise some people for at least
a quarter or a quarter and a half, and that
has not happened, not even one they've I guess you
could say they surprised us with the totality of their
victory against Nebraska. But I don't know how much you
can take that to the bank if you don't build
on it, and you don't then follow up with something
(15:58):
else that makes that scene more real than it feels today.
Ben Gooseling, that's what Gerbschmidt calls him. His real name
is Ben Gesling. He's going to join us next. If
you have Vikings questions National Football League questions, hit the
bratch on Brian cafean text line. That's six four, six
eighty six.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Time now for the Vikings Report on the Fan, presented
by Miller Lyte.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Vikings wide receiver Adam Thielend joins Dan Burrero Next and
peer up for a Peer Up four Winter at the
Satan Paul Ice Fishing and Winter Sports Show December fifth
through the seventh at the River Center. Over one hundred
(16:42):
and ninety exhibitors, huge giveaways including a twenty four thousand
dollars ice castle and expert seminars, and for your chance
to win a family four pack of tickets today on
our contest page kfan dot com. Keewer Contest apologies in
order to our next guest, Ben Gesling, joining us via
the Medico Water Systems hotline.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Forgot we had a big fat break at the bottom
of the hour, so I went a little bit lengthy.
We'll try to make it up to him. Of course,
Standard Heating and air Conditioning brings us Ben every week,
or as Gerby calls him Ben Gooseling, but we'll go
with Gasling. The proper pronunciation. How often in your lifetime
has your last name been mispronounced?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I would put it this way. It is a rare
occasion when people get it right. Really interests happened so
frequently that I have a text shortcut set up in
my phone so that when I'm going on a radio
show for the first time, the text the producer just
as an FYI, my last name is pronounced, and I
put it Guestling, like with the U instead of it oh,
(17:48):
so that it looks phonetically like Guessling. So usually people say.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Gospeling, Gostling. Yeah that I figured, not Gooseling. That's Gurby.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
So you related to Ryot Gosling. Yeah, No, it's called different.
I'll take it, I guess yeah, that's very fall take it.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, fair enough. Uh, yeah, that's I guess Gurby's the
only one. I think it calls you Gooseling or mostly
I could see where Gosling would be the one people
would kind of default to. That That probably makes sense,
makes more Uh makes more sense. All right, here's the deal.
We've got questions coming in early to the bransh On
(18:24):
Brian kfan text line for Ben keep them coming. That's
six four six eight six, A lot of projecting and
you know, you could say overreaction the last week or
two regarding the McCarthy saga, but it's the nature of
the business. And we talked about this that it was
(18:44):
probably inherently fair what was going to be expected of
JJ from the beginning. But that's the reality that to
a certain extent, I think the Vikings put him in.
So we're getting text like, all right, how many years
do you's a patient with him? And the larger question
he has is this is I believe nine to five
(19:06):
to two guy, is does the leash automatically become longer
because he's only twenty two years old? Because you know
and I know there are times where it is literally
a three year process for a young quarterback before you
figure out exactly what he's got. Can the Vikings afford
(19:26):
to wait that long or do you think the leash
does get longer simply because he's as young as from
a you know, chronological chronological age standpoint, he's as young
as he is.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Well, the thing that's going to change this a little bit,
and I wrote about this in my newsletter today, is contract.
I mean, they really are coming to a decision point
at the end of twenty twenty six already where they
have to make a call on his fifty year option.
Basically by May of I think twenty twenty seven, they
(19:58):
will have to decide if they're picking that up, and
that is fully guaranteed for his fifth season if they
do pick it up, So they will have to make
that decision based on what they see the rest of
this year and then all of next year. So in
terms of how long the leash is, the contract does
kind of stipulate some level of a decision point. They
can always pick up the option and say we're going
(20:20):
to give it one more year, but I think you
have to at least give him this year the rest
of next year before you know much of anything, both
because of that contract and just because it takes a while.
I mean, if people keep sending me questions about are
they going to bring in somebody to compete with him
for the job this year, I mean, I think you
could look at having another option at the position. But
(20:42):
I think if you're talking about a guy that they
draft the tenth overall, knowing that he was coming from
a system where he didn't throw the ball as much
as a lot of quarterbacks, knowing he was as young
as he was, and then you're going to say, Okay,
before it starts six, we have to start thinking about,
you know, pulling up the stakes. I just that's not realistic.
I mean, this is a longer process than that, and
(21:03):
there are a lot of things we've seen and continue
to see that need a lot of work. But I
don't think that's unusual for somebody in this spot, and
I don't think they were necessarily expecting it to be
a completely finished product right away. I mean, a lot
of the people you talk to in the building, it's, hey,
we know there are going to be some moments that
are pretty rough, and the hope is to kind of
(21:25):
keep a and even deal with the whole thing, and
then you're not reacting to the highs and the lows,
and that obviously is more important for the people on
the inside than the people on the outside. But when
all of that stuff it's floating, you have to interact
a little bit with the outside perceptions. I just think
that they understand this is going to take a while,
and I don't think anybody is going to pull up
(21:46):
stakes on it after this.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Well, I let me ask you this, though. I you're
there every day, so you speak to folks a lot
more than I do, so I'll trust your instincts on
this for sure. But my gut at least tells me
that they didn't expect it to be this rough, because
I honestly believe I'd agree with that because it's it's
(22:11):
you know, it's funny because I have hammered pretty hard
on JJ for a number of reasons, But in truth,
I think the Vikings are more rippable than he is.
If in fact, he's one of those highly unfinished quarterbacks
who's gonna need as much time as now people are projecting,
(22:32):
because then it's like, well, he is what he is,
and he didn't get the practice last year because he
was hurt. He hasn't had the reps so to a
certain extent, it's it's say, well, it's more a miscalculation
on the part of the Vikings that we can pull
this off. We might not win a super Bowl this year,
but we can pull this off immediately enough that that's
(22:53):
what we're gonna go with with all the other moves
we made, thinking that we had a pretty good core
of plays to put around him in the end, I
think that's really more a miscalculation on the team than
it is necessarily an indictment on what JJ McCarthy can become.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, I think all of that is fair. And when
I say it's a long process, I think there are
stages to that. I think to expect that he was
going to look this rough where we're talking about mechanics
every week, you know, a topic that's near here, you're
in Garthey's hearts, I know, when we're doing it that much,
I think that's probably a little bit more than they
(23:32):
expected they'd be doing that at this stage of it.
And you can talk about, you know, was there Hubrist
and saying we can pull this off, or was it
just a bigger project than they thought it was going
to be. I think all of those things are fair. Questions.
The piece of it that gets tricky is when you
are going to do the Jordan Love style apprenticeship with
(23:56):
let's sit him for three years. It gets hard to
do that because by the end of year three, like
we say, you're already making something of a decision. So
the contracts force you to speed up the timetable a
little bit. And they probably could have tried it for
another year. I mean, they could have gone out and said, hey,
Daniel Jones will give you the one year deal. We'll
(24:17):
tell you you're coming in as the guy, and then
maybe you make McCarthy sit one more year and get
that full kind of redshra year, more so than he
would have gotten last year with the injury. I suppose
they could have done that, but it also takes two
to tango. For that. Daniel Jones would have had to say, yes,
I believe I'm going to get the chance to start here.
I'm going to get the year that I want to
go out and get on the open market after this year.
(24:38):
So there's a lot of complicating factors that go into
trying to do it that way as well, And I
think there's certainly a lot that if they went back
on it. You wonder if they you know, knowing what
they know now, it's obviously easier to say that, But yes,
I think there's been a level of not elementary, but
(24:58):
a level of fundamental stuff. There's been more attention to
than probably they thought they were gonna have to pay.
I think that's probably fair a couple people.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
There have been two strains from people in terms of
their theories about how to in the short run, best
proceed with him, to give him the best chance to
be successful, and this team to perhaps recover a little
bit and try to get back in something resembling the
play a playoff chase. The first is, well, you saw
(25:29):
how you finished the game, and it was there's less
to think about. Then, he's just looking for open people.
We're in and out of the huddle, if we huddle
at all. And the second strain is roll him out.
You guys aren't rolling him out enough. He's athletic, Just
get him out of the pocket. Do more boots that
sort of thing. Do either of those arguments, you know,
(25:51):
carry weight with you? Is that in both cases oversimplifying?
What do you think.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
I think? Two minutes? Thing is I always do this
where it's well, they look so great in the two
minute drow, I don't they just do that the whole time.
I think that's harder to pull off in reality than
it is in theory, because you're talking about a limited menu,
probably both for the offense and for the defense. And
I suppose if you did it the whole time, you're
forcing the defense to play in a limited menu and
(26:17):
not being able to sub as much as you want.
But then you also have to be able to work
off of that menu for the quarterback and for the offense.
So I think that can work in one setting for
a short amount of time. I'm more skeptical about whether
it can work for a full game when you have
to run sixty some plays off of it. And the
other thing with that is at the end of games,
(26:38):
you're often in situations where defenses are playing back a
little bit because they don't want anything over their heads. Yeah,
they don't want to give up any big plays, So
you're not getting as tight a coverage, you're maybe not
getting quite the same degree of pass rush as you
might get another setting. So the transferability of that, I
think is always a little bit hard to estimate. As
far as the rollouts and bootlegs. I do think they're
(27:00):
there's more to do there. I think his athleticism is
something that you see him used to an advantage. If
you can roll him away from some of the pressure,
maybe you're tiring people out, you simplify the read so
it's a little more of a half field situation for him.
I do think that's been part of the plan. I
think that's something they've wanted to probably do more than
they have. And this discussion of can he go to
(27:24):
his left, I think is maybe what limits some of that.
Because you're going to just roll him to his right
all the time. People are going to start to sit
on that too, so there is some of the complicating
factor there if he is struggling to go to his left,
and we've certainly seen some of that where when he
goes to his left, he's not as natural as when
he moves to his right. So they have to figure
all of that out as well. But I do think
(27:45):
moving the pocket, moving him away from the pass rush
can be a useful thing and can simplify some things
and put his mobility to work. So I think that's
more of a likely option than going two minute. As
much as some people would maybe talk about them wanting
to do.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Ben Gessling joining us on the fan as he does
every Friday Russel Radio from the X coming up at
the top of the hour. Grenard, what do we think
he's listed? I think officially as questionable. What are we
hearing on his availability for Sunday in Lambeau.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah, I think he has a pretty good chance to play.
I think he was optimistic about the possibility this week.
We'll see how he comes through the weekend. They'll go
through probably a little more of a walkthrough tomorrow before
they hit the road for green Bay. But yeah, I
think he'll have a good chance to get back, and
if he does, that's a big factor because you know
we saw last week. I think Dallas Turner did some
good things, but they are different when they have him,
(28:39):
and they put a lot of pressure on Jordan Love
and a couple of those games last year. They got
after him at Lambo and they blitzed him a lot
at the game at us Bank Stadiums. So you add
Grenard to that pass rush, I do think that's a
big deal. I think they'll have a pretty good chance
to have him out there.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Something you picked via Startibute dot Com, it's already up.
You picked the Packers to win in a low scoring game.
What was your what's your thinking?
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Yeah, I mean, as I thought through this, I thought
there's a chance that the Vikings take this one because
of how banged up the Packers are. I mean with
Josh Jacobs being questionable because of that knee. The Packers
have another game on Thanksgiving Day against the Lions, so
they may be thinking a little bit about that is
they make decisions on injured players. You've got a number
of receivers that are banged up. Elton Jenkins, their centers
(29:25):
out for the year after getting hurting his knee a
couple of weeks ago. So I think the Vikings are
the healthier team, and they are more desperate than the Packers.
But in the end, I thought that defense for the
Packers is going to be a lot for the Vikings.
They have to deal with Micah Parsons having to know
where he is all the time. For Shawn Garry. They'll
have some other pieces. You know, Edrin Cooper the linebacker
(29:46):
has been awfully good, and I think their corners Carrington
Valentine has played better than a lot of people would
have expected too. So I think it's low scoring. But
the Packers have been a team that doesn't turn the
ball over very much. In fact, the games they've lost
have been some of the rare opportunities or rare occasions
that should say, where they've had turnovers. So if the
Vikings aren't able to create those, which they haven't done
(30:08):
a great job of lately, and if they turn it
over a couple of times, which they've done a lot,
I think that shape shapes the game. I think the
Packers win it most scoring. I think it's kind of
an ugly defensive struggle. But the Packers at home, especially
if they get enough out of Josh Jacobs to kind
of send the game that way, I've got them winning in.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
A close One text came in listening to our conversation
about JJ. He writes this, honestly, talk about how they're
going to give McCarthy all of this year next year
is nonsense. If he doesn't show improvement the rest of
the year, they're not going to let him waste another
year for the rest of the team. To quote your
guest Bill garn from yesterday, this is not a developmental
leg He was referring to the NHL but same is
(30:48):
true here. I would assume that you agree that there
is a certain level at which they might have to
reconsider everything if they don't see enough sign All right,
he's not the finished product. But we've seen some things
over the course of the last couple of months of
the season to say we think we can get there.
(31:10):
We see some signs. There's always, I guess, the possibility
that if he's continuing to play at the level he's
played to this point, that they might have to have
a come to Jesus meeting in the offseason.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Do you agree, Yeah, I mean there's always that possibility
that they see something that they think this is not fixable.
We've got to pull up stakes. I mean, you've seen
teams do that.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
I think of like Josh Rosa with the Cardinals in
the past. Yeah, you may see that happen. I just
think if we're gonna do the developmental quarterback thing, the
idea that five or six games or nine or ten
games by the end of the season, you know whatever,
we're gonna be probably twelve games and be going the
rest of the way, it is hard to feel like
(31:51):
there's a finished product there. We just see so much
evidence of this position, especially at the NFL level, taking
a long time to learn, master and perfect. And the
evidence of that is some of these quarterbacks that bust
with their first teams and then they figure it out
a little bit later in their careers. The Sam Donalds
Baker mayfield those types of guys who were Daniel Jones,
(32:14):
who are playing awfully well when they have fallen out
of favor in their initial market. In some cases, in
Donald's case, you know five or six teams by this point.
So it is a really tough position to learn at
a high end level at this stage of it. So
the tricky part of it is that you end up
with this short timetable to get a guy ready to
(32:36):
play on that rookie contract, and it makes it really
difficult to pull off. I just think if a team
is committing to a young quarterback and developing him, it
just feels too soon for them to pull up the
states completely unless it's so bad and it looks so
unredeemable that they say there's no coming back from this.
(32:58):
I don't think we're going to end up, and I
think there's been moments of indications that he can play.
He just has to get better with the accuracy, has
to get better at reading things out. But if they
see enough of those signs the rest of this year,
I do think they're going to say we need to
continue to commit to this thing and see where it goes.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Let's face it. I mean, to a certain extent, the
Viking's curse was finishing fourteen and three last year. To
this extent, once you want to, you know, hand the
keys over to the young guy. That's where they were
kind of stuck. Because it's hard after fourteen and three,
even if it ended badly in the postseason, to say
we're pulling up stakes and we're rebuilding and we're starting
(33:40):
over and we're taking them off yere. You know, that's
really hard to sell as probably hard as competitors for
them to you know, to sell that to themselves, let
alone to the public.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah. I think that's right. I mean, it's just really
interesting how this has gone because I think about that
team last year, they were predicted to win seven games.
I was among those that was not that enamored with
what they were doing, in part because of the questions
a quarterback. So they go out and play as well
as they do, and then that sort of reshapes the
it's the old Bud Grant thing. I think he used
to tell. I think he told Mike Zimmer this, or
(34:12):
maybe told Kevin O'Connell this as well, because he and
Kevin o'connall got pretty tight. Bud told them don't win
too quick because they the expectations really high, right, And
then that first year they win thirteen games, and so
there's been a couple of these back and forth type things.
Where is this for real? Is this sustainable? They kind
of felt after the first one in twenty two like
it was not. I think they certainly thought with the
(34:33):
moves they made this year, yes, we can go in
and win. But you do end up in that spot
where you say it's a fourteen win team or a
move or two away, and we could pull it off
with a young quarterback if we build everything up around
him enough to have everything else working as well as
it possibly could. So, yeah, I agree. It is a
(34:53):
tricky situation to be in when you go out and
have the unexpected success like they did, and then you're
there kind of talking yourself into yes, this can happen
for us. Now. It's always been a tough thing to
pull off, and I think you know, kind of where
you set expectations, the floor you set for yourself always
has a lot to do with how a season is perceived.
Kind of where you started and where you finished relative
(35:15):
to what you thought it would be makes a very
big difference in the final accounting of it.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
At the risk of being laid for the next segment
and annoying another one of our guests, I'm gonna throw
one other question because I think it's a good one,
and it's it's got nothing to do with JJ McCarthy. Hello,
Dan Ben, This is from J d H. Why does
b Flow keep only three or four corners? Also, clearly
d Turner can play Grenard's edge spot much better than
(35:40):
Van Ginkle's. Will this change the longer term plan? Or
was Turner only on a VG spot due to the injury?
Is Flow generally happy with Dallas Turner? A lot to
chew on there?
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Yeah, there's a few different threats to the question. I'll
try to hit them quickly so as not to I
guess there's a hot so we'll pay attention to that
if we need to. I suppose, but sorry fall in
this the chief shot there. But as far as Van
Ginko goes. He does a lot of things that are
pretty unique, and they've gotten Dallas Turner doing some of
those things. But yes, I do think he's been better
(36:15):
at the Grenard spot. I think playing on that side
is a better spot for him, and I think that's
probably where the long term fit is and you have
to figure out how long it takes to get him
ready to do that. But the sooner they can do that,
the more it helps them out financially in the long term.
And then the corners thing, yeah, I mean the move
to get rid of White mcglooy in this week, I
think they needed that spot for Ryan Kelly. That's where
(36:36):
that spot is going to go. But it is an
indication that they haven't felt good enough about his progress
and they do need to figure out depth there. I
think that is a major concern both the rest of
this year going forward Baby and Moreau is going to
have to play again. So I think that's a big
question for them in the rest of this year and
then going into the following years from that and what
(36:59):
was the Brian Flores pit after that?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
The why uh only keeping three or four is so
generally happy with Dallas Turner? Why keep only three or
four corners.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Yeah, yeah, so I think they are seeing progress with Turner.
I think they've wanted to see more probably, yeah, a
lot consistency and then yeah, the corner depth. The other
piece of it, I'd say really quickly is that when
they play three safeties as much as they do, they
kind of look at their nickel package and say, we
don't always have to have corners there as well. So
that plays into it. But certainly corner depth is a
big question going forward.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Excellent work, safe travels to Green Bay. Well chat at
some point next week, although we're obviously off late in
the week. Well, so we'll figure something out.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Thank you, We will negotiate.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Thanks Dan, appreciate you. Ben Gestling. Brought to you by
Standard Heating and air Conditioning Straight to the X. Well
it used to be called the X Now is it
called Was it Grand Casino Arena? Yes? And what is
the shortthand version of that? What are we preferring? Do
we have set? Asked Russo if he's got an opinion
on that and on the state of his favorite hockey team.
(38:03):
All of that is now
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