October 2, 2025 • 46 mins
Dan Barreiro opens the show revisiting the Sam Darnold Dilemma from last year and reviews a new piece that outlines how rare it is to move on from a winning quarterback like the Vikings did. Sean Salisbury makes his weekly appearance for more outstanding Vikings and NFL discussion.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is yr did we all miss out on the
darnld development leader fan Fan Radio Network and k f
a N dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Two minutes twenty nine seconds past three o'clock Central daylight time,
we welcome you back to a Thursday edition of the
Bumper to Bumper program on a fairly warm, fairly moist
Thursday afternoon here in October in the twin cities of
Minneapolis and Saint Paul. My name is Dan Barrero, host
of the program, guards he produces the show, and we
(00:40):
are going till six today?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Six o'clock three hour tour Gilligan's Island like three hour
tour today. Vikings programming will, of course, as this tradition,
follow us powerpack broadcast before you start to finish. I
don't think there's any doubt about that. It'll include at
the bottom of this hour the redoubtable Sean Salisbury and
then doctor Dan's inbox is scheduled.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
To be opened at.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Four point thirty today as well. The five o'clock hour
will include perhaps May section stuff. Kessler, by the way,
is still on vacation. That's why we've not had him
on this week. I haven't even heard from him. I Yeah,
I'm a little worried. Is he Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I hope he didn't, like, try to pick a fight
with the Pontiff because he was gonna he was working
on an audience in the Vatican.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
He wouldn't be that. Well, he's fighting with everybody, I know.
That's what worries me. I don't know he could.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I just don't think it'd be smart to pick a
fight with the Pontiff. I'm guessing security would be pretty tight,
don't you think. Yes, Plus, he's he's our guy, right,
he's Midwest. Well, yeah, exactly, that's what I mean. It's
close enough for me. You're one of those Minnesotans who
bristles at pretending Midwesterners, whether they come from Chicago area
(01:56):
or Minnesota, are all in the same big pot, aren't you.
You're one of those big distinction a little upper Midwest.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
No, we're not Midwestern. Don't even do Chicago.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I didn't realize that. So I'm looking at Kessie's Twitter, Okay,
as X. The last time he tweeted was September twenty ninth,
and it was actually a response to me. So September
twenty ninth, that was Monday. I think, well, maybe he's
doing this the healthy thing. He's shutting it down sake
(02:24):
of the vacation. His earlier tweets, not only was he
not shutting it down, he was so connected.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So he's got you.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Think he tweeted something that that raised freaky mcfree's got
him in trouble, sent him to the principal's office.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
So he's tweeting from underneath the pope's balcony. Then he writes,
September twenty seventh, are we the only ones? And I
missed this? This is nice? Are we the only ones?
Watching the Fox nine Gopher football pregame show at a
sidewalk cafe en Rome? And there's Pierre, there's Ron, and
there's me on his eyes show. That's very nice getting
ready for Gophers Rutgers. He's got the coliseum.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
No, but I would just have concentrated that, you know,
I might. I love you.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Well, you're not a fan, No, that's true. I'm not
a super fan, as Gerby would say, Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
And then.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I had tweeted that the news that Bad Bunny will
be the halftime performer for the Super Bowl in Santa Clara.
Bad Bunny, Bad bunny yep, And I wrote, already been
declared a great show by Pat Kessler, because that's what
he does, right the second that it starts, he's got
to let everybody know that he thinks the halftime show
is the greatest.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
And his response was great, but not his greatest, Prince
the greatest halftime show.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And that was three days ago. And that's it.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And we haven't heard from him in three days, so
I don't know. Maybe he's back. I don't know how
long it was going. We don't have any very many
kidnappings anymore. Do we have American tourists in Italy? I
think we have more than you want to know. Well,
we had him back in the day, we used to.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I think going back to this, there were there there
were a couple of Italian terror groups that I think
did that pretty regularly, but I thought they were largely
out of business.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So we'll see, we'll see if anyway, haven't heard from
other than those tweets the other thing in the five
o'clock hour.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I have a number of questions for you, in particular
as it pertains to the simmering WNBA war between the
players and it appears management specifically the commissioner of the
w of the Women's National Basketball Association. We'll save that
(04:27):
for I meant to get to some of it yesterday,
but obviously it was a very full powerpack program. I
think we'll have some time to breathe in the five
o'clock hour. The show Thursday Night Football on the fan tonight.
It is forty nine ers at RAMS and your guy
pretty not going to start. It's Jones again. Yeah, they
don't have anybody out of New England. Niners are three
(04:49):
and one. Rams are three and one. I think the
Niners are enjoying a very soft schedule, which has helped
them a little bit as well.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I don't but I don't know. Maybe I'm not crediting
them enough. I don't recall who they've beaten in or
three games. But that's the that's the Thursday night matchup,
which you can hear tonight on the fan.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I the problem is I I don't think I did
a good enough job coming up with the proper alliteration.
When I say Darnald development, I don't mean developments in
the Darnald story. I mean like the Donald real estate development,
because we like doing that with quarterbacks. What would have
been a better term to go with than development for
Donald as it pertains to real estate.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Is there one that comes to mind? I mean, what
did we do last year? We did Donald dwellings. I
think I'm procuring dwellings. Okay, I can't remember. This Development's
not horrible.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
And I bring it up because I'm curious if how
many in our audience have seen the piece that's getting
a lot of attention nationally and I assume locally in
various spots by Mike Sando of The Athletic.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Have you seen it or read it or heard about it?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Have not?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Here's the headline because it's all about us. The story
is all about us, us as in the Vikings. It's
far too early to question the Vikings quarterback decision, but
have you seen Sam Darnold? And Sando then sets it
up with, you know, the decision that the Vikings made,
(06:26):
the direction they decided to go after last season, which
started brilliantly, ended poorly last regular season game disaster, first playoff,
first and only playoff game close to a disaster as well.
But he's got some research, some reportage in this piece
that did I have to say, get my.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Attention, And.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
He notes that well, he's already noting that the Vikings
have already lost nearly as many times in their first
four games this season twice as they did in the
twenty twenty four regular season three times.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
You remember we were fourteen three last year. Correct.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
We had two veteran quarterbacks on our roster last year.
One was named Sam Darnold, the other Daniel Jones. He
notes that they are playing the best ball of their
careers for teams with three and one.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Records. He notes that the Vikings are.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Now starting Carson Wentz with McCarthy out hurt suffering an
ankle injury, and he notes also McCarthy might one day
develop into a top quarterback, but there is zero evidence
so far that he's capable of playing that way soon,
which again would be fine, except this team won fourteen
three last season, loaded up with aging veterans in free agency,
(07:46):
and is spending, according to over the Cap, a league
high three hundred and forty five million dollars in cash
this season. That's like five years worth of payroll for
the Twins. I think five or six years, but I digress.
Vikings have the NFL's ninth oldest defense, or should say offense,
and defense a snap weighted basis, even with McCarthy starting
(08:11):
two games. So here's the nugget that got my attention.
The twenty twenty four Vikings were one of ninety seven
teams since the nineteen seventy AFL NFL merger to win
at least eighty percent of the regular season games. That's
(08:32):
according to Pro Football Reference. We are one of ninety
seven teams to win that often in the regular season.
The nineteen ninety eight Denver Broncos, who were fourteen to two,
had to replace John Elway because he retired. Ninety four
of the remaining ninety six teams, ninety four of the
(08:53):
remaining ninety six teams brought their starting quarterbacks brought back.
I should say they're starting quarterbacks in some capacity. There
are two exceptions, and both times the Minnesota Vikings are
that team. You'll recall after the thirteen and three season
(09:14):
in twenty seventeen from one case, Keenum.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, we moved on. We didn't believe it.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You could say we've been vindicated because he never started
successfully any place after he left us. I will still
argue with you that we had the infrastructure that might
have made a second season of some level of success,
maybe not thirteen and three possible and just the vibes.
And we won a playoff game with we did the
Minneapolis miracle? Have we have won one since?
Speaker 4 (09:41):
We on one?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
We won one with Cousins, didn't we?
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I had to think about it. In New Orleans, New Orleans, yep,
the nineteen ninety eight Vikings. We're also on that list
of ninety seven teams. What did they do? They brought
back Randall Cunningham after a fifteen and one season. He
started six games and and then he got benched for
Life's Full of slappies. Jeff George?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Remember him? How can you forget Jeff George? Never will
forget Jeff George.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
So when you put it in that historical context, does
it feel different?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
He admits too early to second guess. It's not over
until it's over.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
But he points out you can play the history game
a little bit and not necessarily feel any less squeamish
about this. Dropping an affordable young quarterback onto a loaded
roster brought quick success for Seattle with Russell Wilson in
twenty twelve. That year, Wilson beat out unproven fellow newcomer
(10:47):
Matt Flynn, who'd come via the Packers if you were
a caall. But remember Seattle was coming off a seven
and nine season with Tavares Jackson, who of course had
a minute or two with the Vikings as the starting quarterback.
He notes, the Vikings this year were in no such
situation in moving on from Darnald and going with McCarthy.
(11:11):
They joined the twenty sixteen Denver Broncos as the only
team in the Rookie Wage Scale era to tab a
first time starter in Week one after winning at least
ten games the previous season. Those Broncos didn't have any
great choices because Peyton Manning had retired. Denver led backup
Brock Osweiler leave, which wound up looking like a wise decision.
Traded up to draft somebody named Paxton Lynch. Oh yeah,
(11:34):
that didn't work out very well. Not ready to play
early or as it turned out ever, only making our
four career starts. Darnald was far more productive for the
Vikings last season than Oswiler ever was with Denver. That's
what made Minnesota's decision to move on from him so fraud.
Now there's more history here, but I'm fascinated that I
guess I didn't realize how I knew it was rare.
(11:56):
I didn't realize just how rare it is. And then
it's when it has happened twice. We're the team who
did it.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
That's probably why it didn't phase us. Maybe that's true
because we had that in our bat. I know, we
talked about it, about the keenom phenomenon, and we were
ready to move on. And we obviously made Kirk the guy.
And we did not have a good year the first
year with Kirk, right, we didn't make They played.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Playoffs, right, Yeah, here's here's the I don't know how
you feel about anonymous quotes from league execs, but I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Give it to you. I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I thought it was absolutely crazy what they did, and
I thought it was crazy when they did it. To
take a quarterback Darnold who'd won that many games, and
to go to JJ, who you don't know can play.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I just don't get it.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
This is here's a quote from O'Connell koc did you
see the game? In what world do you go from
wearing a life vest and learning how to swim to
being thrown in the deep end in the middle of
a two hundred meter freestyle against Michael Phelps.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
The point there seems to be that you got to
be careful.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
I mean the.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Cliche from koc is organizations fail young quarterbacks more often
than young quarterbacks have failed organization. So the question is
whether at brute that is that going to come back
at any point to haunt him. Because coming off a
fourteen and three season, albeit as bad as it ended
you had, and all the moves you made in this offseason,
(13:31):
you decided now's the time on JJ. You didn't blink
an eye on Donald. You didn't blink an eye on
Daniel Jones either, right, who I presume would have been
cheaper than Donald. Correct, I don't remember what Darnald got.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Donald, wasn't it like three for a hundred? I mean
it was that much.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Yeah, it was the deal that we were all kind
of kicking around right during the season.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Would you do it for?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I remember back to if you got a quarterback making
that much money? How many of the free agency moves
that we made on the defense to add to the defense,
which by the way, has not looked any better what
we've been able to do, So that that's also got
to be put in the equation. I don't want to
get too far behind because we've got Salisbury at the
bottom of the hour. I might ask him about this
particular piece because it does interest me. Let's try to
get some bonus bucks going fan and two men and
(14:14):
a junk truck.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I want to give you a shot to win bonus
bucks with our National cash contest. And the first keyword
of the day Thursday is win. Go to kfean dot
com and enter the keyword win. Comedians Design and Ronnie Chang.
They hate each other and they're taking in public. You
can catch Hassan Hates Ronnie Ronnie Hates Hassan at the
Orpheum Theater Saturday, November First two Comedy Legends, one Epic
(14:37):
Ross Battle. Full details, kfan dot com keyword calendar. My
memory often fails me.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Maybe you will recall this in the Mike Sandos story
we're referring to via the Athletic laying out the history
the extraordinary nature of the Vikings making the office decisions
that they did when it comes to bringing back or
not bringing back a quarterback who led them, albeit a
bad ending, to winning eighty percent of their games. He
(15:12):
notes that the Vikings offered Daniel Jones fifteen million dollars
a year. Oh, but he took fourteen million from Indianapolis,
presumably on the thinking that he could beat out Anthony
Richardson easier that he could beat out McCarty. He's certainly
been validated there because he's the starter off to a
good start. Now again, weirder things have happened than getting
(15:33):
off to a three to one start and then coming
back to the pack. I'm not ready to give Daniel Jones.
You know, Danny Dimes the MVP award, but off to
a good start. I don't even remember that we offered
him fifteen mil. And if it was that much, that's considerable.
That almost sounds to me. Here's the question, though, when
you offer him the fifteen mil, do you say to
him or starting camp open, JJ McCarthy, we've drafted because
(15:59):
we believe it, but we're going to have an open
competition that and you have as much opportunity to win
that job in the preseason as JJ McCarthy did.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
I don't think we did that.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
No, And even if they did, he had to know
that the grease is the actacked against him, right, because
that I don't remember the fifteen million specifically, But I
remember they obviously tried to sign him, and I knew
that they offered him something right, and that's really good
backup money. Didn't Donald make ten last year? It was
something like that, That's right. It was ten minute right
(16:31):
around there. So it's more than more than him obviously, so,
but he saw it clearly that he had a better
chance to beat out Anthony Richardson than he did.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
When the Vikings were winning with Donald last season, I asked,
this is the writer of this piece asked a veteran
coach to watch the Vikings offense in hopes of learning
just how well Darnald was playing. The coach thought there
was a big gap between Donald's impress of twenty twenty
four stats and how well he was actually playing for Minnesota.
We found relatively few high level plays in the games
we watched. That same coach could not believe he was
(17:05):
watching the same quarterback when he flipped through the Seahawks
offensive plays with Darnold this season. The whole thing was
tier one. This coach said, No one we know is
throwing better than that. No one we know is throwing
better than that. He spent jittery in there, the coach said.
Now he stands in there and looks down the barrel.
(17:26):
A couple times he jumped them through like Aaron Rodgers does.
He dropped the three quarters delivery end quote. Again. Look,
it's water under the bridge, as the cliche goes, it's
just that things have gotten so messy so quickly, some
because of performance in the case of JJ McCarthy, and
(17:46):
some because of injury. Right, and you feel like the
season is kind of teetering. And I guess again, I
appreciate the research that Sando did here in sort of
laying out I knew it was rare. I guess I
didn't not understand how rare it was that the Vikings
did what they did. Now, knowing it's that rare, does
it give you any because let's be clear, neither one
(18:09):
of us was saying.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Horrific blunder, can't.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Let Donald walk, can't let Danny Dimes walk? I think
for the money and as we understood it on Donald
that you sort of had to do what you had
to do, right, But knowing that history how unusual it is,
and knowing that the only other time it happened was
with case Keenum and that did not end well the
(18:34):
next season. Does it give you any more pause that
it might have at the time when all of these
important decisions were made?
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Not really.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
No.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I remember during the year we talked about the bridge
two to three year deal for Sam Darnald. We talked
about it, and I remember saying, we would be at
least I was in favor. I would have been comfortable
with it. I have been fine with it. And then
the last two weeks happened and we really shifted. I
certainly did and said, man, because that was really bad,
especially the Lions game. Right, the Rams game, I think
(19:04):
a lot. I think more of it had to do
with the the offensive line, in the fact that he
got hit fifty two times in the first half, so
much so the KOC in very un KOC like fashion,
came out and said, we got to be better in
the middle.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
That's got to be our challenge here.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
But the Lions game, there were plenty of plays to
be made in that first quarter and he was not
even close.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
The Darnald deal. The year he played for US, right,
that was one year ten mil was it not?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
That's what I remember. Yeah, I'll look it up quick.
What if we had.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So if we'd let's say we'd have given him two
years twenty mil, he'd have taken it right under the
condition he was in. And if he was still playing
that second year, in other words, twenty twenty five season,
So at the time on a ten million dollar deal,
he's still quarterbacking here, right, you'd even with whatever you
(19:57):
think think about JJ, wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
You have to play that out?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah, and force JJ to sit another year if necessary,
or if he fades, if he follows up the terrible
postseason performance by not so much early this season, then
it's fairly easy to say, okay, we're going.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
To with the kid.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
It would have been and yes, it was a one year,
ten million dollar deal with the Vikings, and he signed
a three year, one ten with the Seahawks.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
So years one about thirty three a year.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
It's good money, which was Remember there was a time
when we were thinking it might have to be forty
a year. We were talking about for darn yes, yea yeah, right, yeah,
and not just three years either. We were thinking it
may have to be a bigger deal. And that's where
I think a lot of the conversations went.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Let's make this the bottom of the hour pause, we'll
get to some commentary on this particular juicy subject from
Shawn Salisbury. Get into some other stuff as well, help
preview Vikings Browns. Of course, Browns make a quarterback change
as well. Our guy shawnee his neck. It's Thursday, just
(21:10):
past three thirty. That means Sean Salisbury time, and indeed
he joined us via the Connectico Water Systems hotline.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
How have you been, sir?
Speaker 4 (21:17):
I'm doing very well. Dan, thank you. I'm glad.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I hope you really get a little bit of get
your sleep re sort of calibrated after the big red
eye return from Habaii a week ago. I got to
ask you about something we just discussed the first segment
of the program, and it's a it's an interesting piece
via the Athletic by I think Mike Sando is the
guy who wrote it, and it attempts to go back
(21:40):
and sort of revisit in a historical sense, the Vikings
decision to move on past Darnold and of course Daniel
Jones last year and to go with the kid. And
you could say, to a certain extent, this is all
moot because it's done. But I was fascinated by the
history part of it, and he writes that the twenty
twenty four Vikings are one of ninety seven teams since
(22:03):
the nineteen seventy AFL NFL merger to win at least
eighty percent of their regular season games. And in ninety
four of those ninety seven cases, I should add quickly,
John Elway retired, so obviously Denver had to move on
from him, so leaving him out, ninety four of the
(22:26):
remaining ninety six teams brought back their starting quarterbacks in
some capacity, and the two exceptions are the Vikings this
year and the Vikings in twenty seventeen, the case Keenum
year when the Vikings went thirteen and three, and it
lays out, I guess it acknowledges the obvious that it's
(22:47):
too early it's to know how it's going to end
up going with JJ McCarthy, but I guess I was
surprised when I saw that stat that it was that
what the Vikings ultimately chose to do was as rare
as it ends up being. And I know you and
I talked about it a lot through that whole process,
and I think you were on board ultimately with their
(23:08):
decision based on the Donald Price tag.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
But does that surprise you that it was that rare?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And it's just fascinating to me that it's your former club,
The Vikings are the teams that this is the same
franchise that did it twice.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Yeah, Dan, And it's the thing is too, I mean,
think about how they played last year here if you
remember last year and when you make a decision, Hell,
if they My thing was if they loved McCarthy that much, Okay,
I get it, But you and I had talked. I
said what I would do is franchise him. Yeah, I
(23:43):
would have franchise Sam Darnald. And we because you know
that's and when we say the price tag and we
ended up making what was he making about thirty thirty.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Five range yep?
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Yeah, and the twos and those guys are making twenty
million more than that and so and Kevin's been known
as a you know, if you call him the whisperer,
a guru, a guy who finds a way to get
the most out of him and does things that fit
their skill set. And he revitalized Darnold's career and it
wasn't just a two game wonder Sam for the most
(24:14):
part until the last two games played good. Now the
key is what if he'd have kicked ass in those
last two games? What would have happened?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Right then?
Speaker 5 (24:22):
One of hindsight, But you know, for me, you franchise him,
and you know the one year deal would have paid him,
probably even more than that for the one year you know, signing,
let's go long term. But Dani and you and I
had talked the way he was playing, what was the rush?
Now we all look back and say, and we're at
a time when we're so instant gratification coming off a
(24:43):
team that won that many games, was that close a
player to two and a quarterback did in the last
two games? He ran into a good Detroit team and
you know in the playoffs and didn't play well. But
what was the rush, especially now if you saw a
lot of body evidence with McCarthy and I still think
he's gonna be a hell of a player. But since
we're you know, going back and then hindsight, let's hindsight
(25:07):
it is.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
What was the rush for a guy coming off an
injury where he didn't get a snap in the regular season.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
So with that in mind, I can understand if you
had him and we'd seen him part time, Sam miss
double games, a guy who was lights out, and you say,
I think he's gonna be ready next year. But with
a team that's built like this, the one weakness, or
at least the one glaring if you want to caught
perception was going into this year was a quarterback.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Yes, and then you got rid of all your experience.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
He brought Carson Winson, but you got for a guy
who hadn't seen a snap, who doesn't come from a
throwing program, who is a winner and has great potential,
But why what was the rush? And then going back
to Darnold, you franchise him, and you and I talked
about let's let him, let's see if.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
He can do it again.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
And if he can do it again, then you revisit
the long term deal or do you trade him or
whatever however you do it, or franchise him. After you
franchise him, and you say, okay, you know, then you
got to let's say they go to deep in the
playoffs and Darnold's the pro bowler a second year.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Then you got the decision of well do we Aaron
Rodgers and Jordan Love keep him again?
Speaker 5 (26:16):
I mean, you have to go through those things, and
my old thing is, what was the rush? You put
all that time and effort into getting a guy who
wasn't expensive the year before or last year, and then
for a fifteen or twenty extra million bucks you decide
to let him go.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
What would have been the problem had you kept him?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Well, it doesn't.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Let's say he beats up my Now I know the bat.
Speaker 5 (26:38):
If Sam's the backup at at thirty million, I get
it or whatever it is. But my thing for a
super Bowl caliber team, I don't. It is fascinating to
think that how many people come out of a season
with that many wins.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
We saw the micro stuff what he said, but.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
That go on, and also commit to a guy who's
never played it now h never never played it down.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Hell, we didn't even see that.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
Hell when they had Aikman in Dallas, they went out
and drafted Steve Walsh and in the supple mission. So
I just in my and and I right exactly, and
I fall into the loving and the future of McCarthy.
But with the roster like that, I think it took
more guts to get rid of to let him walk,
(27:27):
than it did to keep it now that we look
at it. But hey, now they live with it, and
they got to go. And you know, Carson's played pretty well,
but I just and Donald's playing good in Seattle. I
just all that work and Donald finally looked at the
guy that everybody thought he was going to be when
he came out of a college. And so maybe it
was Kevin who got him. And then you and what
you did, You primed the guy for another team and
(27:47):
got him ready, and you're hoping, see one guy you
knew played well. We're still hoping that JJ McCarthy can
ever be that guy, and hopefully he will.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Well, there's people are mad at me for quoting from
this piece, which I just thought was an interesting historical perspective.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
So I wouldn't know there was that hiding.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I had that idea, but they're saying, look, Sean, you
know they're saying to me, and look, it were five
weeks in. You could just as easily I five if
at the five week mark Darnald was struggling this year,
you could turn the same way and say, well, why
did they do it?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
It's probably a little premature, but here's the reality. And
I think you know, this is how it works in
this league. The unusual circumstance of the Vikings quarterback condition
makes it inevitable that that's what Koc and this staff
and this administration is going to face. And here's why
you've got You had three other options that were released
(28:40):
in the hopper. Donald as expensive as that was going
to be, and that's going to cost you some free
agents that you otherwise than you otherwise probably couldn't have
brought here. You had him, his team is three and one.
I believe you had Daniel Jones on this roster. His
team is three and one this this so far, and
you had the flirtation, no question was going on with
(29:01):
Aaron Rodgers and his team is I believe they they're
three and one two. I think the Steelers are as
well after knocking off the Vikings. So this whole season
is gonna be a referendum that plays out that way.
Whether it's fair to anybody, you know, that's how it works.
If those were the other possibilities, and McCarthy either struggles
or is injured much of the season and they're just
(29:24):
trying to, you know, patch it up with Wentz.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
It's gonna be lurking.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
That story angle is just gonna be part of the
part of what the Vikings have to face.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
And it'll have to be Dan because you know, and
then we talk about not fair, Well, what is fair
the league? There's nothing fair about them and that's okay,
no going in. If you're a football player and you're
looking for fair or a coach, I would suggest you
take two weeks off and quit and find a different workplace,
because that's not that's not how it works in a league.
But a couple other things, and what makes you think, good, gracious,
(29:52):
they must have really did Kevin?
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Did they love.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
JJ so much that they were willing to part with
and or not sign any of them, any of them
especially knowing that I see. I'm a believer that if
Kevin would have had Daniel Jones, then Daniel Jones would
be like he's doing it.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
I believe the same with Sam that Sam might have
even gotten better and given you more because you uncovered
what everybody thought they were.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
And if you.
Speaker 5 (30:21):
Remember that tree of like McVeigh Shanahan, those two teams,
they loved Sam Donald and Kevin was in. They love
Sam Donald coming out of college, loved him. Shanahan loved him.
Hence why he went to San Francisco too and was there.
So there's all that, Yet here we are so and
I get why you'd love McCarthy and the temptation, and
(30:41):
it's like, what would have even been wrong with letting
them compete? But you go back to the money, Dan,
it's very valid and viable. But let me ask you this,
if they go this season or or and then they
don't go where they want to go, or if Donald
was here and they did, my point is, can you
go farther with average quarterback player decent? And it is premature,
(31:03):
but we do that. We're instant gratification. We do it
after one week. Who's the Super Bowl teams?
Speaker 4 (31:06):
We all do. But we're damn near. We're in October,
so we're going.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
To start to evaluate what do you have a better
chance at doing in this league? Failing because of a
bad quarterback or failing because you just didn't get a
couple extra bodies in free agency? No, No, that's I think,
you know, so if that guy under center's not there,
you better have Baltimore's to their defense. Back in the
day when Ray was there, you know, you just got
(31:32):
to have that guy that just doesn't plays good like
Dilford did at the right times and doesn't turn it over.
It protects it and you run it and you play
great defense and you win a Super Bowl. But normally
this position, at the end of the year, you can
look and say, well, offensive line wasn't good and quarterback.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
I'm talking about it.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
Any team, it'll come to fruition, say finesse team quarterback
played poorly. You Usually that's the way or average, right,
that didn't elevate. So listen, I'm pulling for JJ and
it we're all you know, we get criticism for doing
this and judging, but you write an article and we're
reacting to it. Yeah, and we still have the question
is when Sam's played that well? And I do believe
the last couple of games did leave it. I don't
(32:10):
want to say bitter, but left the Oh are we
worried that this is going to creep in next? You know,
the confidence all that, But listen, man, it's it's those
are decisions that make or break franchises or teams.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
And now we're in a hope phase. Now we are.
We're in to hope JJ comes back.
Speaker 5 (32:28):
You're in a hope that he's who we think he
is because we saw the guts in that fourth quarter
of the first game, or that you know the Carson
can hold it down because the Vikings are a good
football team and we've seen it. So but that what
what a what a precious and fragile position it is,
And don't we.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
All know when you have yeah, well you have this
many options that were at least available now in fairness,
we were reminded, I think in this piece that the
Vikings did offer Jones fifteen mil a year to stay.
He ends up taking fourteen mil from the Colts, probably
thinking he's got a better chance to win the job
as and he's been vindicated already on that than he
(33:05):
would have here. So I think the Vikings may have
at least attempted to kick Jones. The question should they
have gone a little bit higher?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Or you know that?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
But if you're that goes back to how committed are
you that we've got to play JJ right now as
opposed to all right, we're going to open up the
competition and let's just let this thing take its natural course.
Speaker 5 (33:24):
I can tell you this, Dave Cutcliff still will swear
by Daniel Jones. I talked to him before you know
who coached him at Duke Coach, the Mannings and all
that he still thinks Daniel Jones getting coach writes great,
and it's a it's bearing that fruit. And you know
when you said, Daniel Jones take less to go somewhere,
I can guarantee you he knew that.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
If I'm here with the love.
Speaker 5 (33:44):
They have of all the guys they've turned down JJ
starting and I look over at Indianapolis and that guy
completes forty eight percent of his passes. I'm going there
to reach all my incentives to make thirty two million
or whatever he's going to make, as opposed to you know,
the fourteen he's making. But you know, let's listen and
if it turns out, say see it told you so.
It's just that position, especially when you're young. It was
(34:05):
a curious decision because he hadn't played, But it also
should tell you how much loved the organization and how
Kevin feels about JJ McCarthy, at least his future and
what he's going to bring to the table.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Hopefully, maybe the current condition of the Vikings offensive line
renders all this mood.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
I'm curious to getting a reaction to the to a
very disappointing performance, I think against the Steelers, which I
thought is another one of those games where I thought
the tail was told that the line of scrimmage, the
Vikings defensive front was gashed early and often without the
Steelers even having their number one running back, especially in
the second half of the game. And then you know
(34:42):
the offensive line. There's injuries that are entering into this
as well. I thought Wentz actually as battered as he
was held in pretty well. So I don't know, maybe
we're worrying about the wrong position because they're they're clearly
not getting and they got injuries, you know, defense at
lineback and an offensive line considerable injuries, including the center
(35:04):
now having another concussion. But we're reminded of just how
important stuff has to happen to the line of scrimmage
or else.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
The rest of it doesn't really matter much.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
Dan, Well, you heard me mention about the quarterback, and
I will very much tell you I think that's the
next Well, first of all, that helps in the growth
of the position. It's a really hard position to play,
no matter how good you are, when you can't set
your feet or you're getting hit all the time. I've
seen the collateral damage that c. J. Stroud is stuffing through.
That's trying to get it back from the last year
(35:35):
and a half. It is and it was disappointing. And unfortunately,
whether we like it or not, when there's injuries, everybody
has them that you're hoping the guy behind them can
step in and do the job and hold off the punishment,
because the Vikings will never get where they want to
go if the quarterback's getting battered. And it won't matter
if it's Jj, You've got better feet as far as
(35:56):
getting out, it won't matter because you don't win championships
being a guy who escapes first and throws from the
pocket second. You win and pocket guy first, and then
the ability to escape and utilize the full bandwidth of
a field. So it was disappointing. Now we shouldn't sleep.
The Steelers are starting to look like something right and
so I give them that, and and you know, the
Vikings are making big plays.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
And you know, but as it gets precious and especially.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
When the offensive line is not moving the line of
scrimmage and they're playing on your side of the ball
and battering your team not only in the run game,
but also getting after the quarterback is did they start
to add up and what happens you becoming a chasment.
You're not going to get where you want to go.
And I don't care how good JJ or Carson play
the rest of the year, if that group doesn't get better.
(36:42):
I've seen the movie Man. Yeah, in Minnesota, we'd have
to deal with it because our guys were so good.
But I'm done about You see it in the league
every week. Teams that can't block simple protections are key
teams that just aren't physical and Dan, you know what
the craziest thing for me and I look around the
league now at a lot of average play by teams.
We see sloppy playerly, but there's a lot of average
play offensively. Defenses are a lot of times tearing up
(37:05):
offenses in the physical nature is when I watched I
think man the depth from one to two and maybe
that's all over the league with the money we paid
the starters. Now, the depth when you go from one
to two on a lot of teams, there's a major falloff.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
There's a major falloff.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
And if you don't secure the inside on a guy
who's a pocket passer, they'll be running for their life.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Whiles.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
They still hung in there and made some plays and
had chances, but you can't turn it over. And Aaron
Rodgers is looking closer to Aaron Rodgers. Pittsburgh's dangerous, especially
whether Baltimore's playing. And I'm gonna tell you it ain't
gonna get any easier defensively this week, Dan.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Nasty.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
If their offense was seventy five percent of their defense,
the Cleveland Browns would be they'd be in first place
with the Steelers.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
That they would be.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
Their Their offense is just putrid and their defense is
like eventually you get the point you start to stand
and say, are you guys gonna pull your weight where
they're hoping?
Speaker 4 (37:59):
With the move moveing to Dylan Gabriel, they get the same.
Speaker 5 (38:01):
Spark that the Giants got with with the d Yeah,
with Jackson Dart last week.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Let's talk a little bit more about Gabriel.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
The Cleveland, as you mentioned, makes the change Shoe Flacco
out and Dylan Gabriel in. He's plays one of those
guys who I felt like he was in college like
twelve years and played a bunch of games and was
very successful. I have no idea, you know, if he's
going to be ready. If it's too much to ask
it he he be ready. How much of a if
(38:30):
any of a threat do you think he might be
in his first game?
Speaker 5 (38:34):
I think, you know, obviously you lose the Flacco intelligence
and veteran stuff, but what you gain is a different energy.
And I know they have so much respect for Joe,
but Joe's limited on what the offense do because of
his legs. He just is get hell, I get it,
good gracious, I understand it. But he's you know, Joe's
a guy that doesn't need much practice. He can still
have something more to happen. Go back in the game,
(38:55):
make a few throws for you and keep you alive.
Here's what I believe. I know, I don't know how
the result's going to be in the game, but I
do know this and watching Gabriel a lot, and it
reminds me of our guy, Jim McMahon. When Jim played,
you know, Jim's one of my best friends. And when
I went on in Cleveland a couple of weeks ago
or during the preseason, I guess it's been over a month.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
As they were talking about, well he looks awful and
practice Sean.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
I went on with a couple buddies of mine in
Cleveland on their radio show, and I said, don't judge
him there. I said, Dylan Gabriel is gonna walk. You're
gonna walk and say he's not real fast, but he's
got good feet. He's he's he's not the greatest athlete.
He's small. The jersey's a little too big for him.
He did, you know, and he practice. The ball comes
off wobbly if everything's not perfect, But what's it going
(39:38):
to look like? Guy's a bad practice I said, just
in the preseason, I said, watch him play. I said,
he's he's the guy that's a practice field. Uh, but
a gamer And that's how he's been in his career
and Organ and you know, you saw all the speed Organ,
but his toughness and grit was a big part of
their success. And he it does feel like he's been
in college forever. But he's smart and I guarantee he's
(39:59):
put a nose to the grind soon. With all the
talk with when the third guy's getting more pubbed than
the first two guys, he's gone to work.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
Now is a result?
Speaker 5 (40:07):
You're playing against a good Vikings team, can you come
with a result? He's mentally sharp. I know that he
will be into the game, and the spark the great
the reason why this is good for the Browns. You
know Brian's going to give him some looks he's I
used to. And hey, listen when people say it's a
rookie ready, No rookie I've ever watched Now, not everybody.
(40:27):
Nobody's Marino, but even Dan had to go through it
because the next year you're like looking around saying I
didn't know anything as a rookie. I'm just pretty good
talent like Marino because he can throw it. But no
rookie's ever ready because you sit there and watch and
you're like, dude, this, I'm sorry. Even if it's the
SEC or when you were in the Pac twelve or
the SEC or the Big ten, it's a different level
when you get there and you look around say, ooh,
(40:49):
that is different because everybody's all the speed you had
at Orgon you were playing it. So he'll be prepared
mentally as much as he can his grit. He's going
to make some plays that a couple other guys that
run wouldn't have made.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
So I think he's a good player.
Speaker 5 (41:04):
You're never going to be wowed by his practice, but
you're going you'd be wild by his grind and with
Brian's looks, Flora's looks. When people say, well, it's the
wrong win a senate to he's got a travel in
London and play against a blitzer, I think it's the
other way. I think what he does. You go in
there and say, man, you can be a hero without
trying to be, but his legs may when you bliit
a guy like that and you miss. He's going to
(41:25):
give you what Flacco couldn't. The second guy can run
you down with Gabriel. He's just fast enough, he's just
strong enough with his arm, just moxie enough. And the
truth is, even though it was on college, he has
played a ton of football, which is an advantage because
reps those were game reps with eleven dudes moving and running,
so not a seven on seven leagues. So I actually
(41:45):
think that you're going to see some spark and he'll
make some plays that aren't there now. Whether the number
is going to look like and can he do it
for four quarters, who knows, but it is time they
needed to do it, and I would have done it
this week too, even though it's some Minnesota Vikings, because
you wouldn't have it chance. If Joe can't move and
they're not protecting the quarterback, it would not have been
fun to watch. If Brian's defense is doing what we
(42:08):
want him to do, you know, rushing the passer and
the looks, so you can count that Gabriel is going
to know more than most rookies do because of his experience,
and you're going to see a guy that you're gonna say,
how does he keep making these plays? I've seen the
movie on guys like him. Were you watch them practice?
Like I played with David Craig too. I got my
rookie year and I'm like, I went to my first
mini camp, I said, this dude can't play, and by
(42:30):
the end of it, by the end of the mean
and by the end for a million, by the end
of the first practice, I think I told that story.
I came out of the practice and I thought, Uh,
they nobody beating this cat out because he just when
he's a gamer. I feel like Dylan Gabriel is going
to have an idea how to play, and if he
does it right, you may not see the job giving
back to anybody.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
The rest of the year.
Speaker 5 (42:48):
But because all he has to do is play smart,
give them three touchdowns, you'll be in the game. Hell,
Cleveland's defense will keep you in every game, and we'll
see if that's the case.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
This one last quarterback question. Obviously, Wentz is starting this week.
The offensive line is still like I said in Tatters,
they may maybe using somebody at center who's literally never
played the position in an NFL game, a regular season game.
And so you know, the assumption is, Okay, you got
the bye week after this week, McCarthy, you'll have more
(43:17):
time to get healthy, and you gotta if he's your guy,
you gotta throw him out there, even if the next
game is against the Eagles.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
It's here.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
But then there's a part of me that says, well,
if the line is still messed up and still injury ravaged,
is that too dangerous? Are you actually more likely to
sacrifice Carson Wentz if you want to call it that
by by by you know, keeping him past the buy
and having him start another game, win or lose against
(43:45):
Cleveland this Sunday.
Speaker 5 (43:48):
My philosophy if I was coaching it, I know as
a player and looking at it, and we're sending your
time media member, I'm thinking, how would I approach this?
I guess there's a quarterback. I'm like, screw that. I
don't care who we're playing. JJ McCarthy. I'm going to play.
Going to see good teams anyway. But you've only seen
you know what, eight quarters of football or whatever less
than that. For the most part, I think it's been
so for in a regular season game this year. Here's
(44:11):
this game does have something to do if I if
Carson Wentz goes out and lights it up.
Speaker 4 (44:14):
Let's just say he does, right, and they win and
you get the bye week.
Speaker 5 (44:20):
You do have to ask your question if you're Kevin
and in that staff meeting, say who gives us the
best chance to win with a guy who will be
should be a little rusty, even though if he's healthy,
if he's one hundred percent healthy, You ask, do we
have a better chance to win against Philadelphia come out
of bye week with Carson Wentz? And remember, don't discount
what will it feel like for Carson Wentz against the
team that did that discarded him a couple of years ago.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
After after his struggles.
Speaker 5 (44:43):
Right, So those things can either work for you where
you're like, Okay, this revenge is gonna work good or
they can work against you. We see it both of
Oh my gosh, he's you don't like it, So I
would if he plays well, that is going to come
into play. Now Wentz goes out and you kind of
flounder around, but you'll win or you lose. I would
say one hundred percent. You're starting McCarthy. I don't think Dan.
You can say, well, man, are we throwing him to
(45:05):
the Wolves? Well, yeah, we got him to the Wolves
without any work as a rookie and coming in the
second year, so and I got to give my team
the best chance to win. And if he does that
out of the bie week, you absolutely have to play him.
But I'm keeping a close eye on this Wentz game
and see his command confidence with a new set, how
he handles this.
Speaker 4 (45:22):
And if he.
Speaker 5 (45:23):
Plays great, you say, man, we could at least wait
one more week and you can use it. We want
to see you give another week of practice of the
with the ones JJ and then we'll go. But if
McCarthy's gonna give you the best chance to win in
two weeks, I don't care who it's against, Philadelphia, Kansas City,
bal It wouldn't matter. To me Buffalo, I'm playing him.
But you're gonna have to ask that question. Based on
Carson Wentz's performance this week in JJ McCarthy's health Out
(45:45):
of the Bible, would.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
It be a good idea if you're a betting person
to take the under on the Vikings Browns matchup.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
I'm maybe six to three.
Speaker 5 (45:53):
You know, I was gonna I'm taking the under and
it's three and a half points, and I'm actually giving
the if I'm the I'm taking there because that hook matters. Yeah,
a three This is feels like the safest under in
the world. Dan and in Cleveland's hoping not. Yeah, but
and then it'll end up forty one to thirty eight
Billy Gabriels. But I would definitely take the under, and
(46:16):
I like the Browns to keep it within a field
goal just because you know you're you're on fore and soil.
You get a new guy the energy, so we'll see
what happens, but it'll still be a good game.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
May not be pretty.
Speaker 5 (46:26):
It's going to be an ugly one, i'd imagine, but
it'll be fun to watch if you like fistfights, because
that's what it's going to turn into.
Speaker 4 (46:31):
I would think.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Excellent work is always my friend. Thanks for the time,
we'll chat next week.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
Appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Marke Shawn Salisbury with a great half hour of football
analysis on a number of vikings related and quarterback related
to subjects. Don't forget Doctor Dan's inbox will be opened
up in about thirty minutes as well.
Speaker 4 (46:49):
Don't go
This is yr did we all miss out on the
darnld development leader fan Fan Radio Network and k f
a N dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Two minutes twenty nine seconds past three o'clock Central daylight time,
we welcome you back to a Thursday edition of the
Bumper to Bumper program on a fairly warm, fairly moist
Thursday afternoon here in October in the twin cities of
Minneapolis and Saint Paul. My name is Dan Barrero, host
of the program, guards he produces the show, and we
(00:40):
are going till six today?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Six o'clock three hour tour Gilligan's Island like three hour
tour today. Vikings programming will, of course, as this tradition,
follow us powerpack broadcast before you start to finish. I
don't think there's any doubt about that. It'll include at
the bottom of this hour the redoubtable Sean Salisbury and
then doctor Dan's inbox is scheduled.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
To be opened at.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Four point thirty today as well. The five o'clock hour
will include perhaps May section stuff. Kessler, by the way,
is still on vacation. That's why we've not had him
on this week. I haven't even heard from him. I Yeah,
I'm a little worried. Is he Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I hope he didn't, like, try to pick a fight
with the Pontiff because he was gonna he was working
on an audience in the Vatican.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
He wouldn't be that. Well, he's fighting with everybody, I know.
That's what worries me. I don't know he could.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I just don't think it'd be smart to pick a
fight with the Pontiff. I'm guessing security would be pretty tight,
don't you think. Yes, Plus, he's he's our guy, right,
he's Midwest. Well, yeah, exactly, that's what I mean. It's
close enough for me. You're one of those Minnesotans who
bristles at pretending Midwesterners, whether they come from Chicago area
(01:56):
or Minnesota, are all in the same big pot, aren't you.
You're one of those big distinction a little upper Midwest.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
No, we're not Midwestern. Don't even do Chicago.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I didn't realize that. So I'm looking at Kessie's Twitter, Okay,
as X. The last time he tweeted was September twenty ninth,
and it was actually a response to me. So September
twenty ninth, that was Monday. I think, well, maybe he's
doing this the healthy thing. He's shutting it down sake
(02:24):
of the vacation. His earlier tweets, not only was he
not shutting it down, he was so connected.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So he's got you.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Think he tweeted something that that raised freaky mcfree's got
him in trouble, sent him to the principal's office.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
So he's tweeting from underneath the pope's balcony. Then he writes,
September twenty seventh, are we the only ones? And I
missed this? This is nice? Are we the only ones?
Watching the Fox nine Gopher football pregame show at a
sidewalk cafe en Rome? And there's Pierre, there's Ron, and
there's me on his eyes show. That's very nice getting
ready for Gophers Rutgers. He's got the coliseum.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
No, but I would just have concentrated that, you know,
I might. I love you.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Well, you're not a fan, No, that's true. I'm not
a super fan, as Gerby would say, Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
And then.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I had tweeted that the news that Bad Bunny will
be the halftime performer for the Super Bowl in Santa Clara.
Bad Bunny, Bad bunny yep, And I wrote, already been
declared a great show by Pat Kessler, because that's what
he does, right the second that it starts, he's got
to let everybody know that he thinks the halftime show
is the greatest.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
And his response was great, but not his greatest, Prince
the greatest halftime show.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And that was three days ago. And that's it.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And we haven't heard from him in three days, so
I don't know. Maybe he's back. I don't know how
long it was going. We don't have any very many
kidnappings anymore. Do we have American tourists in Italy? I
think we have more than you want to know. Well,
we had him back in the day, we used to.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I think going back to this, there were there there
were a couple of Italian terror groups that I think
did that pretty regularly, but I thought they were largely
out of business.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So we'll see, we'll see if anyway, haven't heard from
other than those tweets the other thing in the five
o'clock hour.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I have a number of questions for you, in particular
as it pertains to the simmering WNBA war between the
players and it appears management specifically the commissioner of the
w of the Women's National Basketball Association. We'll save that
(04:27):
for I meant to get to some of it yesterday,
but obviously it was a very full powerpack program. I
think we'll have some time to breathe in the five
o'clock hour. The show Thursday Night Football on the fan tonight.
It is forty nine ers at RAMS and your guy
pretty not going to start. It's Jones again. Yeah, they
don't have anybody out of New England. Niners are three
(04:49):
and one. Rams are three and one. I think the
Niners are enjoying a very soft schedule, which has helped
them a little bit as well.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I don't but I don't know. Maybe I'm not crediting
them enough. I don't recall who they've beaten in or
three games. But that's the that's the Thursday night matchup,
which you can hear tonight on the fan.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I the problem is I I don't think I did
a good enough job coming up with the proper alliteration.
When I say Darnald development, I don't mean developments in
the Darnald story. I mean like the Donald real estate development,
because we like doing that with quarterbacks. What would have
been a better term to go with than development for
Donald as it pertains to real estate.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Is there one that comes to mind? I mean, what
did we do last year? We did Donald dwellings. I
think I'm procuring dwellings. Okay, I can't remember. This Development's
not horrible.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
And I bring it up because I'm curious if how
many in our audience have seen the piece that's getting
a lot of attention nationally and I assume locally in
various spots by Mike Sando of The Athletic.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Have you seen it or read it or heard about it?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Have not?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Here's the headline because it's all about us. The story
is all about us, us as in the Vikings. It's
far too early to question the Vikings quarterback decision, but
have you seen Sam Darnold? And Sando then sets it
up with, you know, the decision that the Vikings made,
(06:26):
the direction they decided to go after last season, which
started brilliantly, ended poorly last regular season game disaster, first playoff,
first and only playoff game close to a disaster as well.
But he's got some research, some reportage in this piece
that did I have to say, get my.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Attention, And.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
He notes that well, he's already noting that the Vikings
have already lost nearly as many times in their first
four games this season twice as they did in the
twenty twenty four regular season three times.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
You remember we were fourteen three last year. Correct.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
We had two veteran quarterbacks on our roster last year.
One was named Sam Darnold, the other Daniel Jones. He
notes that they are playing the best ball of their
careers for teams with three and one.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Records. He notes that the Vikings are.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Now starting Carson Wentz with McCarthy out hurt suffering an
ankle injury, and he notes also McCarthy might one day
develop into a top quarterback, but there is zero evidence
so far that he's capable of playing that way soon,
which again would be fine, except this team won fourteen
three last season, loaded up with aging veterans in free agency,
(07:46):
and is spending, according to over the Cap, a league
high three hundred and forty five million dollars in cash
this season. That's like five years worth of payroll for
the Twins. I think five or six years, but I digress.
Vikings have the NFL's ninth oldest defense, or should say offense,
and defense a snap weighted basis, even with McCarthy starting
(08:11):
two games. So here's the nugget that got my attention.
The twenty twenty four Vikings were one of ninety seven
teams since the nineteen seventy AFL NFL merger to win
at least eighty percent of the regular season games. That's
(08:32):
according to Pro Football Reference. We are one of ninety
seven teams to win that often in the regular season.
The nineteen ninety eight Denver Broncos, who were fourteen to two,
had to replace John Elway because he retired. Ninety four
of the remaining ninety six teams, ninety four of the
(08:53):
remaining ninety six teams brought their starting quarterbacks brought back.
I should say they're starting quarterbacks in some capacity. There
are two exceptions, and both times the Minnesota Vikings are
that team. You'll recall after the thirteen and three season
(09:14):
in twenty seventeen from one case, Keenum.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, we moved on. We didn't believe it.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You could say we've been vindicated because he never started
successfully any place after he left us. I will still
argue with you that we had the infrastructure that might
have made a second season of some level of success,
maybe not thirteen and three possible and just the vibes.
And we won a playoff game with we did the
Minneapolis miracle? Have we have won one since?
Speaker 4 (09:41):
We on one?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
We won one with Cousins, didn't we?
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I had to think about it. In New Orleans, New Orleans, yep,
the nineteen ninety eight Vikings. We're also on that list
of ninety seven teams. What did they do? They brought
back Randall Cunningham after a fifteen and one season. He
started six games and and then he got benched for
Life's Full of slappies. Jeff George?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Remember him? How can you forget Jeff George? Never will
forget Jeff George.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
So when you put it in that historical context, does
it feel different?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
He admits too early to second guess. It's not over
until it's over.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
But he points out you can play the history game
a little bit and not necessarily feel any less squeamish
about this. Dropping an affordable young quarterback onto a loaded
roster brought quick success for Seattle with Russell Wilson in
twenty twelve. That year, Wilson beat out unproven fellow newcomer
(10:47):
Matt Flynn, who'd come via the Packers if you were
a caall. But remember Seattle was coming off a seven
and nine season with Tavares Jackson, who of course had
a minute or two with the Vikings as the starting quarterback.
He notes, the Vikings this year were in no such
situation in moving on from Darnald and going with McCarthy.
(11:11):
They joined the twenty sixteen Denver Broncos as the only
team in the Rookie Wage Scale era to tab a
first time starter in Week one after winning at least
ten games the previous season. Those Broncos didn't have any
great choices because Peyton Manning had retired. Denver led backup
Brock Osweiler leave, which wound up looking like a wise decision.
Traded up to draft somebody named Paxton Lynch. Oh yeah,
(11:34):
that didn't work out very well. Not ready to play
early or as it turned out ever, only making our
four career starts. Darnald was far more productive for the
Vikings last season than Oswiler ever was with Denver. That's
what made Minnesota's decision to move on from him so fraud.
Now there's more history here, but I'm fascinated that I
guess I didn't realize how I knew it was rare.
(11:56):
I didn't realize just how rare it is. And then
it's when it has happened twice. We're the team who
did it.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
That's probably why it didn't phase us. Maybe that's true
because we had that in our bat. I know, we
talked about it, about the keenom phenomenon, and we were
ready to move on. And we obviously made Kirk the guy.
And we did not have a good year the first
year with Kirk, right, we didn't make They played.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Playoffs, right, Yeah, here's here's the I don't know how
you feel about anonymous quotes from league execs, but I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Give it to you. I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I thought it was absolutely crazy what they did, and
I thought it was crazy when they did it. To
take a quarterback Darnold who'd won that many games, and
to go to JJ, who you don't know can play.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I just don't get it.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
This is here's a quote from O'Connell koc did you
see the game? In what world do you go from
wearing a life vest and learning how to swim to
being thrown in the deep end in the middle of
a two hundred meter freestyle against Michael Phelps.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
The point there seems to be that you got to
be careful.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
I mean the.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Cliche from koc is organizations fail young quarterbacks more often
than young quarterbacks have failed organization. So the question is
whether at brute that is that going to come back
at any point to haunt him. Because coming off a
fourteen and three season, albeit as bad as it ended
you had, and all the moves you made in this offseason,
(13:31):
you decided now's the time on JJ. You didn't blink
an eye on Donald. You didn't blink an eye on
Daniel Jones either, right, who I presume would have been
cheaper than Donald. Correct, I don't remember what Darnald got.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Donald, wasn't it like three for a hundred? I mean
it was that much.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Yeah, it was the deal that we were all kind
of kicking around right during the season.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Would you do it for?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I remember back to if you got a quarterback making
that much money? How many of the free agency moves
that we made on the defense to add to the defense,
which by the way, has not looked any better what
we've been able to do, So that that's also got
to be put in the equation. I don't want to
get too far behind because we've got Salisbury at the
bottom of the hour. I might ask him about this
particular piece because it does interest me. Let's try to
get some bonus bucks going fan and two men and
(14:14):
a junk truck.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I want to give you a shot to win bonus
bucks with our National cash contest. And the first keyword
of the day Thursday is win. Go to kfean dot
com and enter the keyword win. Comedians Design and Ronnie Chang.
They hate each other and they're taking in public. You
can catch Hassan Hates Ronnie Ronnie Hates Hassan at the
Orpheum Theater Saturday, November First two Comedy Legends, one Epic
(14:37):
Ross Battle. Full details, kfan dot com keyword calendar. My
memory often fails me.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Maybe you will recall this in the Mike Sandos story
we're referring to via the Athletic laying out the history
the extraordinary nature of the Vikings making the office decisions
that they did when it comes to bringing back or
not bringing back a quarterback who led them, albeit a
bad ending, to winning eighty percent of their games. He
(15:12):
notes that the Vikings offered Daniel Jones fifteen million dollars
a year. Oh, but he took fourteen million from Indianapolis,
presumably on the thinking that he could beat out Anthony
Richardson easier that he could beat out McCarty. He's certainly
been validated there because he's the starter off to a
good start. Now again, weirder things have happened than getting
(15:33):
off to a three to one start and then coming
back to the pack. I'm not ready to give Daniel Jones.
You know, Danny Dimes the MVP award, but off to
a good start. I don't even remember that we offered
him fifteen mil. And if it was that much, that's considerable.
That almost sounds to me. Here's the question, though, when
you offer him the fifteen mil, do you say to
him or starting camp open, JJ McCarthy, we've drafted because
(15:59):
we believe it, but we're going to have an open
competition that and you have as much opportunity to win
that job in the preseason as JJ McCarthy did.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
I don't think we did that.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
No, And even if they did, he had to know
that the grease is the actacked against him, right, because
that I don't remember the fifteen million specifically, But I
remember they obviously tried to sign him, and I knew
that they offered him something right, and that's really good
backup money. Didn't Donald make ten last year? It was
something like that, That's right. It was ten minute right
(16:31):
around there. So it's more than more than him obviously, so,
but he saw it clearly that he had a better
chance to beat out Anthony Richardson than he did.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
When the Vikings were winning with Donald last season, I asked,
this is the writer of this piece asked a veteran
coach to watch the Vikings offense in hopes of learning
just how well Darnald was playing. The coach thought there
was a big gap between Donald's impress of twenty twenty
four stats and how well he was actually playing for Minnesota.
We found relatively few high level plays in the games
we watched. That same coach could not believe he was
(17:05):
watching the same quarterback when he flipped through the Seahawks
offensive plays with Darnold this season. The whole thing was
tier one. This coach said, No one we know is
throwing better than that. No one we know is throwing
better than that. He spent jittery in there, the coach said.
Now he stands in there and looks down the barrel.
(17:26):
A couple times he jumped them through like Aaron Rodgers does.
He dropped the three quarters delivery end quote. Again. Look,
it's water under the bridge, as the cliche goes, it's
just that things have gotten so messy so quickly, some
because of performance in the case of JJ McCarthy, and
(17:46):
some because of injury. Right, and you feel like the
season is kind of teetering. And I guess again, I
appreciate the research that Sando did here in sort of
laying out I knew it was rare. I guess I
didn't not understand how rare it was that the Vikings
did what they did. Now, knowing it's that rare, does
it give you any because let's be clear, neither one
(18:09):
of us was saying.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Horrific blunder, can't.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Let Donald walk, can't let Danny Dimes walk? I think
for the money and as we understood it on Donald
that you sort of had to do what you had
to do, right, But knowing that history how unusual it is,
and knowing that the only other time it happened was
with case Keenum and that did not end well the
(18:34):
next season. Does it give you any more pause that
it might have at the time when all of these
important decisions were made?
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Not really.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
No.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I remember during the year we talked about the bridge
two to three year deal for Sam Darnald. We talked
about it, and I remember saying, we would be at
least I was in favor. I would have been comfortable
with it. I have been fine with it. And then
the last two weeks happened and we really shifted. I
certainly did and said, man, because that was really bad,
especially the Lions game. Right, the Rams game, I think
(19:04):
a lot. I think more of it had to do
with the the offensive line, in the fact that he
got hit fifty two times in the first half, so
much so the KOC in very un KOC like fashion,
came out and said, we got to be better in
the middle.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
That's got to be our challenge here.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
But the Lions game, there were plenty of plays to
be made in that first quarter and he was not
even close.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
The Darnald deal. The year he played for US, right,
that was one year ten mil was it not?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
That's what I remember. Yeah, I'll look it up quick.
What if we had.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So if we'd let's say we'd have given him two
years twenty mil, he'd have taken it right under the
condition he was in. And if he was still playing
that second year, in other words, twenty twenty five season,
So at the time on a ten million dollar deal,
he's still quarterbacking here, right, you'd even with whatever you
(19:57):
think think about JJ, wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
You have to play that out?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah, and force JJ to sit another year if necessary,
or if he fades, if he follows up the terrible
postseason performance by not so much early this season, then
it's fairly easy to say, okay, we're going.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
To with the kid.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
It would have been and yes, it was a one year,
ten million dollar deal with the Vikings, and he signed
a three year, one ten with the Seahawks.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
So years one about thirty three a year.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
It's good money, which was Remember there was a time
when we were thinking it might have to be forty
a year. We were talking about for darn yes, yea yeah, right, yeah,
and not just three years either. We were thinking it
may have to be a bigger deal. And that's where
I think a lot of the conversations went.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Let's make this the bottom of the hour pause, we'll
get to some commentary on this particular juicy subject from
Shawn Salisbury. Get into some other stuff as well, help
preview Vikings Browns. Of course, Browns make a quarterback change
as well. Our guy shawnee his neck. It's Thursday, just
(21:10):
past three thirty. That means Sean Salisbury time, and indeed
he joined us via the Connectico Water Systems hotline.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
How have you been, sir?
Speaker 4 (21:17):
I'm doing very well. Dan, thank you. I'm glad.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I hope you really get a little bit of get
your sleep re sort of calibrated after the big red
eye return from Habaii a week ago. I got to
ask you about something we just discussed the first segment
of the program, and it's a it's an interesting piece
via the Athletic by I think Mike Sando is the
guy who wrote it, and it attempts to go back
(21:40):
and sort of revisit in a historical sense, the Vikings
decision to move on past Darnold and of course Daniel
Jones last year and to go with the kid. And
you could say, to a certain extent, this is all
moot because it's done. But I was fascinated by the
history part of it, and he writes that the twenty
twenty four Vikings are one of ninety seven teams since
(22:03):
the nineteen seventy AFL NFL merger to win at least
eighty percent of their regular season games. And in ninety
four of those ninety seven cases, I should add quickly,
John Elway retired, so obviously Denver had to move on
from him, so leaving him out, ninety four of the
(22:26):
remaining ninety six teams brought back their starting quarterbacks in
some capacity, and the two exceptions are the Vikings this
year and the Vikings in twenty seventeen, the case Keenum
year when the Vikings went thirteen and three, and it
lays out, I guess it acknowledges the obvious that it's
(22:47):
too early it's to know how it's going to end
up going with JJ McCarthy, but I guess I was
surprised when I saw that stat that it was that
what the Vikings ultimately chose to do was as rare
as it ends up being. And I know you and
I talked about it a lot through that whole process,
and I think you were on board ultimately with their
(23:08):
decision based on the Donald Price tag.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
But does that surprise you that it was that rare?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And it's just fascinating to me that it's your former club,
The Vikings are the teams that this is the same
franchise that did it twice.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Yeah, Dan, And it's the thing is too, I mean,
think about how they played last year here if you
remember last year and when you make a decision, Hell,
if they My thing was if they loved McCarthy that much, Okay,
I get it, But you and I had talked. I
said what I would do is franchise him. Yeah, I
(23:43):
would have franchise Sam Darnald. And we because you know
that's and when we say the price tag and we
ended up making what was he making about thirty thirty.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Five range yep?
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Yeah, and the twos and those guys are making twenty
million more than that and so and Kevin's been known
as a you know, if you call him the whisperer,
a guru, a guy who finds a way to get
the most out of him and does things that fit
their skill set. And he revitalized Darnold's career and it
wasn't just a two game wonder Sam for the most
(24:14):
part until the last two games played good. Now the
key is what if he'd have kicked ass in those
last two games? What would have happened?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Right then?
Speaker 5 (24:22):
One of hindsight, But you know, for me, you franchise him,
and you know the one year deal would have paid him,
probably even more than that for the one year you know, signing,
let's go long term. But Dani and you and I
had talked the way he was playing, what was the rush?
Now we all look back and say, and we're at
a time when we're so instant gratification coming off a
(24:43):
team that won that many games, was that close a
player to two and a quarterback did in the last
two games? He ran into a good Detroit team and
you know in the playoffs and didn't play well. But
what was the rush, especially now if you saw a
lot of body evidence with McCarthy and I still think
he's gonna be a hell of a player. But since
we're you know, going back and then hindsight, let's hindsight
(25:07):
it is.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
What was the rush for a guy coming off an
injury where he didn't get a snap in the regular season.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
So with that in mind, I can understand if you
had him and we'd seen him part time, Sam miss
double games, a guy who was lights out, and you say,
I think he's gonna be ready next year. But with
a team that's built like this, the one weakness, or
at least the one glaring if you want to caught
perception was going into this year was a quarterback.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Yes, and then you got rid of all your experience.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
He brought Carson Winson, but you got for a guy
who hadn't seen a snap, who doesn't come from a
throwing program, who is a winner and has great potential,
But why what was the rush? And then going back
to Darnold, you franchise him, and you and I talked
about let's let him, let's see if.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
He can do it again.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
And if he can do it again, then you revisit
the long term deal or do you trade him or
whatever however you do it, or franchise him. After you
franchise him, and you say, okay, you know, then you
got to let's say they go to deep in the
playoffs and Darnold's the pro bowler a second year.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Then you got the decision of well do we Aaron
Rodgers and Jordan Love keep him again?
Speaker 5 (26:16):
I mean, you have to go through those things, and
my old thing is, what was the rush? You put
all that time and effort into getting a guy who
wasn't expensive the year before or last year, and then
for a fifteen or twenty extra million bucks you decide
to let him go.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
What would have been the problem had you kept him?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Well, it doesn't.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Let's say he beats up my Now I know the bat.
Speaker 5 (26:38):
If Sam's the backup at at thirty million, I get
it or whatever it is. But my thing for a
super Bowl caliber team, I don't. It is fascinating to
think that how many people come out of a season
with that many wins.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
We saw the micro stuff what he said, but.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
That go on, and also commit to a guy who's
never played it now h never never played it down.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Hell, we didn't even see that.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
Hell when they had Aikman in Dallas, they went out
and drafted Steve Walsh and in the supple mission. So
I just in my and and I right exactly, and
I fall into the loving and the future of McCarthy.
But with the roster like that, I think it took
more guts to get rid of to let him walk,
(27:27):
than it did to keep it now that we look
at it. But hey, now they live with it, and
they got to go. And you know, Carson's played pretty well,
but I just and Donald's playing good in Seattle. I
just all that work and Donald finally looked at the
guy that everybody thought he was going to be when
he came out of a college. And so maybe it
was Kevin who got him. And then you and what
you did, You primed the guy for another team and
(27:47):
got him ready, and you're hoping, see one guy you
knew played well. We're still hoping that JJ McCarthy can
ever be that guy, and hopefully he will.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Well, there's people are mad at me for quoting from
this piece, which I just thought was an interesting historical perspective.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
So I wouldn't know there was that hiding.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I had that idea, but they're saying, look, Sean, you
know they're saying to me, and look, it were five
weeks in. You could just as easily I five if
at the five week mark Darnald was struggling this year,
you could turn the same way and say, well, why
did they do it?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
It's probably a little premature, but here's the reality. And
I think you know, this is how it works in
this league. The unusual circumstance of the Vikings quarterback condition
makes it inevitable that that's what Koc and this staff
and this administration is going to face. And here's why
you've got You had three other options that were released
(28:40):
in the hopper. Donald as expensive as that was going
to be, and that's going to cost you some free
agents that you otherwise than you otherwise probably couldn't have
brought here. You had him, his team is three and one.
I believe you had Daniel Jones on this roster. His
team is three and one this this so far, and
you had the flirtation, no question was going on with
(29:01):
Aaron Rodgers and his team is I believe they they're
three and one two. I think the Steelers are as
well after knocking off the Vikings. So this whole season
is gonna be a referendum that plays out that way.
Whether it's fair to anybody, you know, that's how it works.
If those were the other possibilities, and McCarthy either struggles
or is injured much of the season and they're just
(29:24):
trying to, you know, patch it up with Wentz.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
It's gonna be lurking.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
That story angle is just gonna be part of the
part of what the Vikings have to face.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
And it'll have to be Dan because you know, and
then we talk about not fair, Well, what is fair
the league? There's nothing fair about them and that's okay,
no going in. If you're a football player and you're
looking for fair or a coach, I would suggest you
take two weeks off and quit and find a different workplace,
because that's not that's not how it works in a league.
But a couple other things, and what makes you think, good, gracious,
(29:52):
they must have really did Kevin?
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Did they love.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
JJ so much that they were willing to part with
and or not sign any of them, any of them
especially knowing that I see. I'm a believer that if
Kevin would have had Daniel Jones, then Daniel Jones would
be like he's doing it.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
I believe the same with Sam that Sam might have
even gotten better and given you more because you uncovered
what everybody thought they were.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
And if you.
Speaker 5 (30:21):
Remember that tree of like McVeigh Shanahan, those two teams,
they loved Sam Donald and Kevin was in. They love
Sam Donald coming out of college, loved him. Shanahan loved him.
Hence why he went to San Francisco too and was there.
So there's all that, Yet here we are so and
I get why you'd love McCarthy and the temptation, and
(30:41):
it's like, what would have even been wrong with letting
them compete? But you go back to the money, Dan,
it's very valid and viable. But let me ask you this,
if they go this season or or and then they
don't go where they want to go, or if Donald
was here and they did, my point is, can you
go farther with average quarterback player decent? And it is premature,
(31:03):
but we do that. We're instant gratification. We do it
after one week. Who's the Super Bowl teams?
Speaker 4 (31:06):
We all do. But we're damn near. We're in October,
so we're going.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
To start to evaluate what do you have a better
chance at doing in this league? Failing because of a
bad quarterback or failing because you just didn't get a
couple extra bodies in free agency? No, No, that's I think,
you know, so if that guy under center's not there,
you better have Baltimore's to their defense. Back in the
day when Ray was there, you know, you just got
(31:32):
to have that guy that just doesn't plays good like
Dilford did at the right times and doesn't turn it over.
It protects it and you run it and you play
great defense and you win a Super Bowl. But normally
this position, at the end of the year, you can
look and say, well, offensive line wasn't good and quarterback.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
I'm talking about it.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
Any team, it'll come to fruition, say finesse team quarterback
played poorly. You Usually that's the way or average, right,
that didn't elevate. So listen, I'm pulling for JJ and
it we're all you know, we get criticism for doing
this and judging, but you write an article and we're
reacting to it. Yeah, and we still have the question
is when Sam's played that well? And I do believe
the last couple of games did leave it. I don't
(32:10):
want to say bitter, but left the Oh are we
worried that this is going to creep in next? You know,
the confidence all that, But listen, man, it's it's those
are decisions that make or break franchises or teams.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
And now we're in a hope phase. Now we are.
We're in to hope JJ comes back.
Speaker 5 (32:28):
You're in a hope that he's who we think he
is because we saw the guts in that fourth quarter
of the first game, or that you know the Carson
can hold it down because the Vikings are a good
football team and we've seen it. So but that what
what a what a precious and fragile position it is,
And don't we.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
All know when you have yeah, well you have this
many options that were at least available now in fairness,
we were reminded, I think in this piece that the
Vikings did offer Jones fifteen mil a year to stay.
He ends up taking fourteen mil from the Colts, probably
thinking he's got a better chance to win the job
as and he's been vindicated already on that than he
(33:05):
would have here. So I think the Vikings may have
at least attempted to kick Jones. The question should they
have gone a little bit higher?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Or you know that?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
But if you're that goes back to how committed are
you that we've got to play JJ right now as
opposed to all right, we're going to open up the
competition and let's just let this thing take its natural course.
Speaker 5 (33:24):
I can tell you this, Dave Cutcliff still will swear
by Daniel Jones. I talked to him before you know
who coached him at Duke Coach, the Mannings and all
that he still thinks Daniel Jones getting coach writes great,
and it's a it's bearing that fruit. And you know
when you said, Daniel Jones take less to go somewhere,
I can guarantee you he knew that.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
If I'm here with the love.
Speaker 5 (33:44):
They have of all the guys they've turned down JJ
starting and I look over at Indianapolis and that guy
completes forty eight percent of his passes. I'm going there
to reach all my incentives to make thirty two million
or whatever he's going to make, as opposed to you know,
the fourteen he's making. But you know, let's listen and
if it turns out, say see it told you so.
It's just that position, especially when you're young. It was
(34:05):
a curious decision because he hadn't played, But it also
should tell you how much loved the organization and how
Kevin feels about JJ McCarthy, at least his future and
what he's going to bring to the table.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Hopefully, maybe the current condition of the Vikings offensive line
renders all this mood.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
I'm curious to getting a reaction to the to a
very disappointing performance, I think against the Steelers, which I
thought is another one of those games where I thought
the tail was told that the line of scrimmage, the
Vikings defensive front was gashed early and often without the
Steelers even having their number one running back, especially in
the second half of the game. And then you know
(34:42):
the offensive line. There's injuries that are entering into this
as well. I thought Wentz actually as battered as he
was held in pretty well. So I don't know, maybe
we're worrying about the wrong position because they're they're clearly
not getting and they got injuries, you know, defense at
lineback and an offensive line considerable injuries, including the center
(35:04):
now having another concussion. But we're reminded of just how
important stuff has to happen to the line of scrimmage
or else.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
The rest of it doesn't really matter much.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
Dan, Well, you heard me mention about the quarterback, and
I will very much tell you I think that's the
next Well, first of all, that helps in the growth
of the position. It's a really hard position to play,
no matter how good you are, when you can't set
your feet or you're getting hit all the time. I've
seen the collateral damage that c. J. Stroud is stuffing through.
That's trying to get it back from the last year
(35:35):
and a half. It is and it was disappointing. And unfortunately,
whether we like it or not, when there's injuries, everybody
has them that you're hoping the guy behind them can
step in and do the job and hold off the punishment,
because the Vikings will never get where they want to
go if the quarterback's getting battered. And it won't matter
if it's Jj, You've got better feet as far as
(35:56):
getting out, it won't matter because you don't win championships
being a guy who escapes first and throws from the
pocket second. You win and pocket guy first, and then
the ability to escape and utilize the full bandwidth of
a field. So it was disappointing. Now we shouldn't sleep.
The Steelers are starting to look like something right and
so I give them that, and and you know, the
Vikings are making big plays.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
And you know, but as it gets precious and especially.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
When the offensive line is not moving the line of
scrimmage and they're playing on your side of the ball
and battering your team not only in the run game,
but also getting after the quarterback is did they start
to add up and what happens you becoming a chasment.
You're not going to get where you want to go.
And I don't care how good JJ or Carson play
the rest of the year, if that group doesn't get better.
(36:42):
I've seen the movie Man. Yeah, in Minnesota, we'd have
to deal with it because our guys were so good.
But I'm done about You see it in the league
every week. Teams that can't block simple protections are key
teams that just aren't physical and Dan, you know what
the craziest thing for me and I look around the
league now at a lot of average play by teams.
We see sloppy playerly, but there's a lot of average
play offensively. Defenses are a lot of times tearing up
(37:05):
offenses in the physical nature is when I watched I
think man the depth from one to two and maybe
that's all over the league with the money we paid
the starters. Now, the depth when you go from one
to two on a lot of teams, there's a major falloff.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
There's a major falloff.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
And if you don't secure the inside on a guy
who's a pocket passer, they'll be running for their life.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Whiles.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
They still hung in there and made some plays and
had chances, but you can't turn it over. And Aaron
Rodgers is looking closer to Aaron Rodgers. Pittsburgh's dangerous, especially
whether Baltimore's playing. And I'm gonna tell you it ain't
gonna get any easier defensively this week, Dan.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Nasty.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
If their offense was seventy five percent of their defense,
the Cleveland Browns would be they'd be in first place
with the Steelers.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
That they would be.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
Their Their offense is just putrid and their defense is
like eventually you get the point you start to stand
and say, are you guys gonna pull your weight where
they're hoping?
Speaker 4 (37:59):
With the move moveing to Dylan Gabriel, they get the same.
Speaker 5 (38:01):
Spark that the Giants got with with the d Yeah,
with Jackson Dart last week.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Let's talk a little bit more about Gabriel.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
The Cleveland, as you mentioned, makes the change Shoe Flacco
out and Dylan Gabriel in. He's plays one of those
guys who I felt like he was in college like
twelve years and played a bunch of games and was
very successful. I have no idea, you know, if he's
going to be ready. If it's too much to ask
it he he be ready. How much of a if
(38:30):
any of a threat do you think he might be
in his first game?
Speaker 5 (38:34):
I think, you know, obviously you lose the Flacco intelligence
and veteran stuff, but what you gain is a different energy.
And I know they have so much respect for Joe,
but Joe's limited on what the offense do because of
his legs. He just is get hell, I get it,
good gracious, I understand it. But he's you know, Joe's
a guy that doesn't need much practice. He can still
have something more to happen. Go back in the game,
(38:55):
make a few throws for you and keep you alive.
Here's what I believe. I know, I don't know how
the result's going to be in the game, but I
do know this and watching Gabriel a lot, and it
reminds me of our guy, Jim McMahon. When Jim played,
you know, Jim's one of my best friends. And when
I went on in Cleveland a couple of weeks ago
or during the preseason, I guess it's been over a month.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
As they were talking about, well he looks awful and
practice Sean.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
I went on with a couple buddies of mine in
Cleveland on their radio show, and I said, don't judge
him there. I said, Dylan Gabriel is gonna walk. You're
gonna walk and say he's not real fast, but he's
got good feet. He's he's he's not the greatest athlete.
He's small. The jersey's a little too big for him.
He did, you know, and he practice. The ball comes
off wobbly if everything's not perfect, But what's it going
(39:38):
to look like? Guy's a bad practice I said, just
in the preseason, I said, watch him play. I said,
he's he's the guy that's a practice field. Uh, but
a gamer And that's how he's been in his career
and Organ and you know, you saw all the speed Organ,
but his toughness and grit was a big part of
their success. And he it does feel like he's been
in college forever. But he's smart and I guarantee he's
(39:59):
put a nose to the grind soon. With all the
talk with when the third guy's getting more pubbed than
the first two guys, he's gone to work.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
Now is a result?
Speaker 5 (40:07):
You're playing against a good Vikings team, can you come
with a result? He's mentally sharp. I know that he
will be into the game, and the spark the great
the reason why this is good for the Browns. You
know Brian's going to give him some looks he's I
used to. And hey, listen when people say it's a
rookie ready, No rookie I've ever watched Now, not everybody.
(40:27):
Nobody's Marino, but even Dan had to go through it
because the next year you're like looking around saying I
didn't know anything as a rookie. I'm just pretty good
talent like Marino because he can throw it. But no
rookie's ever ready because you sit there and watch and
you're like, dude, this, I'm sorry. Even if it's the
SEC or when you were in the Pac twelve or
the SEC or the Big ten, it's a different level
when you get there and you look around say, ooh,
(40:49):
that is different because everybody's all the speed you had
at Orgon you were playing it. So he'll be prepared
mentally as much as he can his grit. He's going
to make some plays that a couple other guys that
run wouldn't have made.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
So I think he's a good player.
Speaker 5 (41:04):
You're never going to be wowed by his practice, but
you're going you'd be wild by his grind and with
Brian's looks, Flora's looks. When people say, well, it's the
wrong win a senate to he's got a travel in
London and play against a blitzer, I think it's the
other way. I think what he does. You go in
there and say, man, you can be a hero without
trying to be, but his legs may when you bliit
a guy like that and you miss. He's going to
(41:25):
give you what Flacco couldn't. The second guy can run
you down with Gabriel. He's just fast enough, he's just
strong enough with his arm, just moxie enough. And the
truth is, even though it was on college, he has
played a ton of football, which is an advantage because
reps those were game reps with eleven dudes moving and running,
so not a seven on seven leagues. So I actually
(41:45):
think that you're going to see some spark and he'll
make some plays that aren't there now. Whether the number
is going to look like and can he do it
for four quarters, who knows, but it is time they
needed to do it, and I would have done it
this week too, even though it's some Minnesota Vikings, because
you wouldn't have it chance. If Joe can't move and
they're not protecting the quarterback, it would not have been
fun to watch. If Brian's defense is doing what we
(42:08):
want him to do, you know, rushing the passer and
the looks, so you can count that Gabriel is going
to know more than most rookies do because of his experience,
and you're going to see a guy that you're gonna say,
how does he keep making these plays? I've seen the
movie on guys like him. Were you watch them practice?
Like I played with David Craig too. I got my
rookie year and I'm like, I went to my first
mini camp, I said, this dude can't play, and by
(42:30):
the end of it, by the end of the mean
and by the end for a million, by the end
of the first practice, I think I told that story.
I came out of the practice and I thought, Uh,
they nobody beating this cat out because he just when
he's a gamer. I feel like Dylan Gabriel is going
to have an idea how to play, and if he
does it right, you may not see the job giving
back to anybody.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
The rest of the year.
Speaker 5 (42:48):
But because all he has to do is play smart,
give them three touchdowns, you'll be in the game. Hell,
Cleveland's defense will keep you in every game, and we'll
see if that's the case.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
This one last quarterback question. Obviously, Wentz is starting this week.
The offensive line is still like I said in Tatters,
they may maybe using somebody at center who's literally never
played the position in an NFL game, a regular season game.
And so you know, the assumption is, Okay, you got
the bye week after this week, McCarthy, you'll have more
(43:17):
time to get healthy, and you gotta if he's your guy,
you gotta throw him out there, even if the next
game is against the Eagles.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
It's here.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
But then there's a part of me that says, well,
if the line is still messed up and still injury ravaged,
is that too dangerous? Are you actually more likely to
sacrifice Carson Wentz if you want to call it that
by by by you know, keeping him past the buy
and having him start another game, win or lose against
(43:45):
Cleveland this Sunday.
Speaker 5 (43:48):
My philosophy if I was coaching it, I know as
a player and looking at it, and we're sending your
time media member, I'm thinking, how would I approach this?
I guess there's a quarterback. I'm like, screw that. I
don't care who we're playing. JJ McCarthy. I'm going to play.
Going to see good teams anyway. But you've only seen
you know what, eight quarters of football or whatever less
than that. For the most part, I think it's been
so for in a regular season game this year. Here's
(44:11):
this game does have something to do if I if
Carson Wentz goes out and lights it up.
Speaker 4 (44:14):
Let's just say he does, right, and they win and
you get the bye week.
Speaker 5 (44:20):
You do have to ask your question if you're Kevin
and in that staff meeting, say who gives us the
best chance to win with a guy who will be
should be a little rusty, even though if he's healthy,
if he's one hundred percent healthy, You ask, do we
have a better chance to win against Philadelphia come out
of bye week with Carson Wentz? And remember, don't discount
what will it feel like for Carson Wentz against the
team that did that discarded him a couple of years ago.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
After after his struggles.
Speaker 5 (44:43):
Right, So those things can either work for you where
you're like, Okay, this revenge is gonna work good or
they can work against you. We see it both of
Oh my gosh, he's you don't like it, So I
would if he plays well, that is going to come
into play. Now Wentz goes out and you kind of
flounder around, but you'll win or you lose. I would
say one hundred percent. You're starting McCarthy. I don't think Dan.
You can say, well, man, are we throwing him to
(45:05):
the Wolves? Well, yeah, we got him to the Wolves
without any work as a rookie and coming in the
second year, so and I got to give my team
the best chance to win. And if he does that
out of the bie week, you absolutely have to play him.
But I'm keeping a close eye on this Wentz game
and see his command confidence with a new set, how
he handles this.
Speaker 4 (45:22):
And if he.
Speaker 5 (45:23):
Plays great, you say, man, we could at least wait
one more week and you can use it. We want
to see you give another week of practice of the
with the ones JJ and then we'll go. But if
McCarthy's gonna give you the best chance to win in
two weeks, I don't care who it's against, Philadelphia, Kansas City,
bal It wouldn't matter. To me Buffalo, I'm playing him.
But you're gonna have to ask that question. Based on
Carson Wentz's performance this week in JJ McCarthy's health Out
(45:45):
of the Bible, would.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
It be a good idea if you're a betting person
to take the under on the Vikings Browns matchup.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
I'm maybe six to three.
Speaker 5 (45:53):
You know, I was gonna I'm taking the under and
it's three and a half points, and I'm actually giving
the if I'm the I'm taking there because that hook matters. Yeah,
a three This is feels like the safest under in
the world. Dan and in Cleveland's hoping not. Yeah, but
and then it'll end up forty one to thirty eight
Billy Gabriels. But I would definitely take the under, and
(46:16):
I like the Browns to keep it within a field
goal just because you know you're you're on fore and soil.
You get a new guy the energy, so we'll see
what happens, but it'll still be a good game.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
May not be pretty.
Speaker 5 (46:26):
It's going to be an ugly one, i'd imagine, but
it'll be fun to watch if you like fistfights, because
that's what it's going to turn into.
Speaker 4 (46:31):
I would think.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Excellent work is always my friend. Thanks for the time,
we'll chat next week.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
Appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Marke Shawn Salisbury with a great half hour of football
analysis on a number of vikings related and quarterback related
to subjects. Don't forget Doctor Dan's inbox will be opened
up in about thirty minutes as well.
Speaker 4 (46:49):
Don't go
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