December 5, 2025 • 41 mins
Dan follows up some comments he made and were made to him about the Minnesota fraud conversation with Andy Luger yesterday before Ben Goessling makes his weekly appearance for some final thoughts on the Vikings week.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Lynnwood Township Guy formerly South Chicago Guy will be at
Lambeau Sunday. It's always who you know would love to
meet Gerby. If he's going to be there, well that
might be difficult to arrange, but maybe word can get
can filter to I'm sure he'll be there. The family. Yeah,
it's a matter the the the meet up, the meet
(00:34):
and greet might be a little bit difficult. Baked Ruffles, Chips, Vikings,
Running Games, slips for Brozemer Guards These Heart Skips, Wolves
and five another pretty good one, A standing one bears
(00:57):
when police So next Friday picks with Gerby as must
listen radio I sent out. I retweeted back to bat
just goes to show you that you know you can't
please everyone, so you got to please yourself. And if
you can't be with the one you love, honey, that's
the other part too, love the one you're with. H
This is from our h night. This Carl bit has
(01:20):
gotten old. Move on next year, please, or move on
next year please, John Malay, there's no better radio segment
anywhere than Barrero and Guards you with the real Carl
g change my mind, I retweeted them both. Yeah, it's
just I mean you can't get I mean, that's the
in and the hang of it right there, right, is
(01:40):
it not? It is? So I wonder if Carl will respond, Oh,
that's what I forgot to ask Carl, I retweeted, I
love these old still shots that we get of any
sport back in you know, ancient history, ancient days. So
a website called Twitter handle called Chicago History has a photo.
(02:05):
It's a terrific photo, really good quality. Bears Packers at
Wrigley Feel in nineteen thirty four. Nice the apartment buildings
in the background on Sheffield. It's a good shot of
basically you're looking out towards what would be right field.
And what's interesting is I think in those days the
(02:27):
photographers were allowed to be like almost right on the
play because the photographer it's a close up shot at
a line of scrimmage right before a play ball was
snapped and the quarterback is approaching the center. It looks
like And I asked, was great Grandpa Karl Gerbschmidt at
this game? I meant to ask him while he was
on because I think the gervischmid family goes way back
(02:49):
when it comes to Packer. I think that's how they
have a sick area. Yeah, yeah, I think it's been
in the family for a long time, so maybe I'll
ask him next time. The turf did the grass does
not look particularly good. And then there's a bunch of
players out in the bleachers way out there, and then
there's a sign.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I wonder what that.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I'm trying to close in get a close up with
a sign behind over the referee's head, but I can't
make it out. So if anybody else can make that
one out, I just retweeted it earlier today. I didn't
realize until the golfers played at Wrigley how long the
Bears actually played at Rigby. Yeah, it was like fifty years, right,
I mentioned I think it was the day, might have
been that Friday that you were gone. Because my memory
(03:36):
does fail me sometimes I go, yeah, you know, once
upon a time the Bears played at Wrigley Field. Never
saw him there, and then I had to stop myself.
I did see him there, and like it would have
been like sixty five or sixty six, Yeah, nineteen twenty
one to nineteen seventy. And what was unfortunate was I
don't know how my dad got the seats, but they
(03:59):
were literally like card table chairs on the field, like
it would be near I would say it would have
been just to the right of what would be the
third base dugout. Cool, but a terrible spot because at
least then the surface almost like curved downward, so you
(04:20):
almost felt like you were in a hole and you
had two or three rows in front of you. So
I don't know that we saw a play, but we
were there. We were at Wrigley Fields, so for whatever
that's worth, real quick, a lot of the reaction I
after admonishing Russo Radio for getting in way too many
X battles, I found myself going right down the rabbit
(04:43):
hole last night for an extended period of time. Thought
I had regrouped in the morning, and then made the
mistake of looking again, although I didn't respond any longer.
And I do want to read one tweet and it
had a lot to do. We had Andy Lueger in
studio for an hour, and the prevailing wisdom as I
(05:08):
attempt to capture it from people who were unhappy, and
those people might have been those potentially on the right
hand side of the aisle, was that they didn't they
wanted red meat from Andy, and they wanted him to
just pound away at the fraud, leaving out the fact
(05:34):
that he has done so previously, or we have talked
about it with him a multitude of times. But because
yesterday was that he was on, and because the Feeding
Our Future and other scandals are getting national attention via
the New York Times story, it's we want our red meat,
and we want it now. I have guests on each
(05:57):
of them. I may ask them questions, I may prod them.
Did prod him attempted to on the nonsense uttered by
the governor of the state of Minnesota during his Meet
the Press interview, But ultimately he gets to decide how
far he goes and what he wants to say, And
somehow that got extrapolated into well, you guys are afraid
(06:19):
of it. You guys, what you guys are? You guys
are are are glossing over the story. The reason we
had him on then and many other times before was
to hammer away at the story. The number of people
I've said this before. The one thing that does slay
me is inventing lies about what we discuss. It's fair
(06:43):
game to disagree one hundred percent, but when you pretend
because it it fits it suits your needs better. That
we have glossed over the subject of these scandals. That's
where you lose me. And but if you live in
that world, A, you might not really listen that much. B.
(07:04):
You're in a feeding frenzy yesterday, so you just want
to go for it. And so the thing that you
want to be angry. So the thing that will make
you most angry is they're glossing over it. They're letting
everybody off the hook, and they're not making as big
a deal of this as they would if it was
a Republican administration. Those are lies. I don't know how
to prove it to you other than go back if
(07:24):
you one to take the time podcast day after day
after day, but one there was one post in particular
that got my attention from a guy named Phil Dan
had a very well reasoned interview with the only only
person in Minnesota who did anything regarding the Somali fraud.
That's his term. You forget the state government not only
(07:48):
brought no charges, but told the DHS to ignore their
findings and keep funding the fraud. Luger filed the charges.
It's the great to this whole story. Luger is not
I mean in many ways, he's more interested in substance
(08:09):
over the style of rhetoric, you know, like I've got
to you know, not only am I going to prosecute
to the fullest extent of the law, I'm going to
pontificate on it over and over again. He doesn't like
to do his work that way. I respect that that's
up to him, but to forget that the only reason
(08:33):
you have this red meat, incredibly inviting red meat is
that Andy Lueger went to the FAD, went to his
bosses and said, we got something major going on in Minnesota.
I'm ready to tackle it, but I need a bunch
more people. I need to expand my office dramatically, and
(08:55):
they signed off on it. The only reason any of
this got done was is tenaciousness. So to make him
the object of your ire is just ludicrous in that
you don't have the story if he doesn't pursue it
as emphatically and tenaciously as he did. It's just so
(09:16):
I thought that tweet kind of handled it very very well.
Rhetoric is and you and I think what people also
have to understand you each one of us makes a
decision on how far is enough or angry enough? But
I can tell you I know myself pretty well, and
my level of vitriol and anger related to this story,
(09:38):
and my viciousness on air for many years, certainly the
last twelve to eighteen months as the thing has intensified,
is up there with.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Any of them.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
I mean it it. It may hurt the feelings of
those Well, he's a lefty. You can call me whatever
you like. I don't care anymore whatever label fits you.
Oh how you want to to describe me, fine, free country,
call me a hardcore lefty. But two things can be true.
(10:08):
If you think I'm a hardcore lefty, you can't accuse
me of going easy on this and the idea that
we mean harder on the Republicans. I can't get any
harder than yelling into the microphone, mocking and ridiculing over
and over again. The lack of accountability, the fact that
nobody has really paid any kind of a price, and
(10:28):
the hamhanded way the governor has swung and missed repeatedly
on this story, as recently as to meet the Press interview,
which I discussed yesterday on the show as well. In fact,
we're gonna come back with a little bit of sound
from our guy lou Goose. You're familiar with lou Ra
Goose Love look Trepid reporter Caro Levin guest on this
(10:49):
program many times. There's a video that he has set
out that also plays into much of this conversation. I'll
just say, though, if you want more from Andy Lueger,
I just I think you're wasting your time. I think
you're forgetting he's the one guy you go well, I
may want him to to speak more viscerally on the subject,
(11:12):
but you can't get any more visceral than making the
cases as effectively as he did, and then as his successor,
has followed that up very nicely as well to creating
the attention rightly deserved about how poorly this state has functioned.
For a number of reasons, he doesn't walk away from
(11:32):
the race issue. He's fearless on that issue, which is
exactly what you should be looking for. He's even fearless
on the issue of whether there's something in the culture
in the in the country in Somaia that is also
in some cases being driven back here. That as enters
into the number of individuals who have been convicted who
have that background. So I don't I know what you're
(11:56):
looking for. I know what you're looking for, but you
you need to I think, devote more of attention and
your anger at someplace else, as far as I'm concerned,
than the guy who set the whole damn thing in motion.
Almost from the beginning, we'll come back with the regoose
sound and then prepare for I should say, Ben Gesling,
he's gonna join us at fourth. I have gotten some
(12:30):
questions about, Okay, how do you think the local media
has done handling this story. I think it's mixed, To
be honest with you, I think some have handled it
pretty well. I believe that there is a lot more
meat on this bone from a reporting standpoint, if there
is a stomach for it and an interest in pursuing it.
(12:52):
I don't think there's any And a lot of it
is separating rhetoric. Like we mentioned the the the workers
at the one department that said, basically, but we don't
really know who is speaking, that made a number of
very serious allegations. We talked about that with with Andy,
(13:13):
and I agree with what he said, which is, it's
a lot of disturbing stuff there, But where is that
you know? That would have to be vetted who is speaking.
Have they come forward? He's He basically said, our office
was looking for, you know, people coming forward forever. So
I think there is much more to get to, and
(13:35):
I think one of the reporters who does try to
hold proper feet to the fire and follow the story
no matter which direction it might go is Lou Ragoseho.
We've had on many times over the years from Caro
leven and including on this story, including on this story.
From the title, that's exactly right, yep. So there's some
visual aspects to what he says here, but it's you
(13:55):
can follow it, just most of it via the audio.
This is something I think that Lou sent out via
x earlier today, raising questions on a number of things
that politicians have said regarding who was taking care of
the fraud, who stepped in, and who didn't.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Minnesota Governor Tim Walls and his political allies continued to
incorrectly claim that the state was responsible for stopping the
massive Feeding our Future fraud, despite the evidence that's come
out in each trial and the legislative audit that was
done proving that false. This week, at an event, Walls
claimed the state Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, which the governor
oversees investigated the case, then handed it over to the
(14:37):
federal authorities who charged it. The truth is the BCA
was not involved at all.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
It was the FBI.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Then on CNN SA Paul Mayor Melvin Carter said this, and.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
By the way, those fraud allegations were uncovered by local
law enforcement and our state attorney general press charges. Actually,
our state law enforcement presence is what caught That is
what how those folks accountable.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Again, it's not true that local law enforcement uncovered the
fraud and who prosecuted it. It was the US Attorney's office,
not the state attorney general. Look at the timeline here
from the legislative audit in February twenty twenty one, the
FBI actually first contacted the Minnesota Department of Education about
fraud allegations that they had heard about. Then in April
(15:22):
twenty twenty one, MD provided info to the FBI about
the fraud. Remember how there was also a lawsuit after
the Education Department did try to stop paying the fraudsters. Well,
in that case, the Attorney General's office in MDE did
not even tell the judge that fraud was the reason
they wanted to stop paying look at this damning deposition
of MDE Assistant Commissioner Darren Cordy during that civil case,
(15:44):
Feeding Our Future's lawyer asked, did you ever address with
the commission or the possibility of there being any fraud
in the meal programs? Corty answers no, not in those terms.
Then does MD to your knowledge have any reason to
suspect there's been intentional acts of fraud with respect to
the meal programs in Cordy answers no. At this point,
(16:05):
I've reported over one hundred stories on the Feeding Her
Future case. I know an untrue statement about this case
when I see one. If this talking point from the
governor continues, you can consider this the fact check. I'm
louver Goose follow for more news.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
That's uh, lou or goose. If you didn't tell oh,
very effective. And again, I you know a lot of
this there is still you can even in the comments
that he who was was kind of riffing on and
responding to and rejecting. That's part of the problem, pretending
(16:42):
that various individuals on the local level of the state
level stepped up when they didn't, and the the the
Democrats who are in positions of authority. They need to
come to grips with that and and have some willingness
to acknowledge it and offer greater accountability. There's absolutely no
(17:05):
question about it. You know, I've even heard you start debune.
We get into this little game of well, the Republicans
are using this as a political wedge. I'd be fine
with that as an observation if I'd ever heard it
regarding Democrats using a particular story as a political wedge.
There are times when the story itself should be about
(17:27):
more than the politics, even though politicians are going to
try to take advantage of it because that's what they do,
and believe me, they do it on the left side
of the aisle and the right side of the isle.
But the questions that are being raised here, the examples,
the contradictions offered up again in the Regose report of
many others says that you don't have to be on
(17:48):
one side of it. You don't have to be a
shark or a jet to say, what the hell's going
on here? And where is the willingness to look in
the mirror a little bit and not pretend that individual
agencies got involved and made a difference when they didn't
that's part of the problem. And the other thing, which
we talked about in depth with Andy the last two
times he's been on Minimum is that we had and
(18:11):
he said this flat out, we have to get over
the notion that an allegation of racism is a is
racism or automatically means that racism applies in a particular case.
Within the Democratic Party, there needs to be a come
to Jesus meeting that if you curl up in the
(18:33):
fetal position as soon as someone yells race because of
your concern that area, you're doing everybody a disservice, quite frankly,
including those who are really facing you know, racism as
a situation, a racist situation. You know, you end up
cheapening the real stories and the real examples. The idea
(18:54):
that that, and it was proven in court several times.
That was part of the leverage that many of these
criminals took to get the state to go belly up.
We're going to go after you publicly and we're going
to brand you all a bunch of racists. That can't
work anymore. And that's a problem I think within the
(19:16):
party that immediately says, oh my god, racism charges We
got to be sensitive about that. We have to realize
who's involved in this situation. The sensitivity should be following
the facts and following the story, not being bowed or
bowed immediately by that allegation. And over and over there
are indications that that's what drove the states. I guess
(19:41):
you could say decision making in this case, or unwillingness
to follow this particular story. That's a problem that should
be examined and discussed, not put, you know, behind closed doors,
but confront it and be honest about it. And there's
not anywhere near enough honesty about it, and there's not
enough discussion about it either. Bottom of the hour break,
(20:01):
we'll get to your guy, Ben Gessling, who's in who's
out for the vikings, and we'll ask for his interpretation
of what the head coach had to say about JJ McCarthy.
All that's coming up next. All right, maybe Ben Gasling
(20:41):
can be the ultimate arbiter of what sadly has become
sport in this town. This week the whisper whisperer, the
team is foreign eight. That means the playoffs are not
even a whisper. So we got to fill in the time.
So now it's a game of interpreting every single sentence,
(21:05):
every word, every inflection offered by the head coach on
the quarterback nine. JJ McCarthy. Ben Gessling joins us via
the Connectico via the Connetico Water Systems hotline thanks to
our good friends at Standard Heating and Air Conditioning. So
here's what's fascinating to me about the interpretation of Koc's dreams. Well,
(21:29):
actually it's not dreams. Actually what he said this week,
I took it guards he took it as well. Really, yeah,
that's what I think many of us, not second guessing,
but first guessing said all along that it might be
a better approach with JJ McCarthy, and is him maybe
kind of acknowledging that he put too much on the plate. However,
(21:50):
a dissenting opinion that I heard earlier today is from
Matthew Cooller. He interpreted the comments this week from the
head coach at Okay, go do it, man, I've done
I've done my due diligence. I'm the quarterback whisper. I've
done everything I can do for you. At some point
(22:11):
you're gonna sink or swim. You're just gonna have to
go play. Almost more of a I'm distancing myself from
you because I've done everything. It's on my plate, that's
my obligation, so go play some football. So where are
you on interpreting this all this stuff?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I think the idea that Kevin O'Connell, who talks as
much as he does about organizations failing quarterbacks, would be
distancing himself or washing his hands of J. J. McCarthy
after six starts is a little hard to believe. I
have a hard time thinking he would say that publicly.
(22:47):
I think a lot of this has been realizing, you know,
kind of like you said that he's probably put a
little too much on his plate in terms of changing
mechanics during the season they are at seeing him. I
was just having a good conversation about this in the
locker room today with a couple of people, in terms
of how much different he's being asked to play at
(23:08):
the NFL level. And this is just a matter of
trying to decipher defenses that are doing way more complex
thing than you are in college. It is a lot
to learn on the fly. And we can have the
conversation about should they have gone into this season assuming
or hoping that they could go as far with him
as they did, given how much of a learning curve
(23:28):
there was going to be to this. But I think
it's more of a realization that, Okay, we've tried it
and it's just going to take a little longer to
try to make it all work. So I think some
of this is him looking at what can I do
to help this player given the current state of things,
more so than it then you know, okay, I got
to just go out and have you been for yourself?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
You know this well, we talked about it at the
top of the show. The added pressure for McCarthy, I
think right now, despite the fact that the team pressure
is pretty much gone in terms of the postseason, is
that I believe the next three opponents rank all three
of them rank in the bottom five defensively in points allowed.
(24:12):
So to me, that is going to be the test
for JJ right because I think we're all looking for
some signs of progress, and if he comes close to
keep to continuing to struggle at the level he has
tended to struggle, I gotta believe there's even going to
be more alarm bells going off, given, at least on paper,
(24:32):
the defenses he is about to face.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
No doubt I would make the case that these five games,
I mean, the playoffs are probably not going to happen.
It would take them winning out and getting a lot
of help. It's not something I would expect to happen.
But I think these next five are as important for
the organization as a whole as anything we would see
in a playoff type season. And here's why I say
(24:56):
that they need to have something to hang their hat
on from this season. With regard to JJ McCarthy, I
remember my first year on the beat. Christian Ponder was
in the second year as a starter, and I know
everybody probably just had a little bit of a reaction
when I said that name. But the last game of
that season, which was his second full year in the league,
(25:16):
he goes out and plays well enough, you know, makes
the big throws. Didn't end up for three hundred and
sixty five yards like Aaron Rodgers did, but he makes
the complimentary throws to help them win the game, beat
the Packers in conjunction with Adrian Peterson going for one
hundred and ninetynine yards, and they go to the playoffs.
And obviously he didn't play in that playoff game, but
they spent that entire offseason talking about, well, if he
(25:38):
could bottle what he did in that Packers game, then
we see more of that. We feel like we have
something to go on here. And I think it's a
bigger deal with McCarthy because I think the hopes are
higher for him. I think there is more of a
ceiling that they see in terms of what he can be.
But you need something to say in March and April. Hey,
(26:01):
look back to what he did on December seventh against
the Commanders or December fourteenth against the Cowboys. We can
see where the progress is and we need to have
something to go on. I think it's really important for
them to see that. And the other thing to mention
here is that after Sunday they're back on National TV.
The Sunday after that, they are in the backyard of
(26:22):
the owners of the team, the team that they grew
up rooting for, and then after that they're on Netflix
on Christmas Day. So this is going to play out
in big audiences or in a couple of cases, national
TV audiences, and then then the other one in a
venue that is particularly important to the ownership of the team.
So I think all of this is extremely important for
(26:45):
the vision of this and what it means and how
much change they are kind of expected to make personnel
wise and possibly staffing wise.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
At the other year, Ben Gesling has always brought you by,
as I said, standard heating and air conditioning. In terms
of how all this might translate regarding game plan approach.
What have you picked up this week? What do you
sense in that regard?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Well, I mean when he's talked about simplifying things, I
asked Wes Phillips a little bit more this week about
what that means. And it's probably a little less volume
in the playbook. It's maybe a little more consistency in
formations because I think one of the things they've run
into is you have so many different pieces on the
offensive line that has not been together very much, and
you have people playing different spots, and there's just a
(27:36):
lot more room for mistakes when you have different formations
all of the time, and there's details to get lost
and maybe blocks and angles and leverage that you're not
hitting quite the right way. So some of this has
been in minutia in terms of the formations. Is facing
all of that stuff, You're going to probably see some
of those things transfer over a little bit more. And
(27:56):
that's you know, a pretty granular level. But in terms
of the play calling, I think it's going to be
you know, probably some more concepts to get him moving
quickly get the ball out of his hands. I wouldn't
be shocked if they see a little more play action.
You can kind of go back to some of the
bootleg stuff where it's a half field read. I wouldn't
be shocked if there's some things that have kind of
(28:18):
been you know, key concepts for him. I think some
of the times where he's getting the ball over the
middle of the field, you've seen him make those throws
probably a little bit better than when he's trying to
push it to the sidelines. So it's probably a matter
of trying to hit on concepts that he's been familiar
with and he's been comfortable with. And you know, the
touch throws have been in a struggled there's no doubt
about that. So maybe they're not leaning on those quite
(28:40):
as heavily. And then you have to get to the
point where he understands how to work in the pocket,
and I think if that line gets healthier, it's probably
an easier way to do that. Because some of the
plays where he's gotten hurt have been whether he's either
on the run or trying to extend the play. And
I think there's a little bit of a discussion too
of Hey, when you're going to do that, you've got
a slide. You got to protect yourself. But if you
(29:00):
could play within the pocket, you have to be able
to do that too.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Carl And Cottage Grove asks what if koc wanted Drake
May from the start, which I think we kind of
know and had to sell for nine and is now
beyond the point of exasperation and is symbolically telling Quasy
I told you he isn't the guy now. I would
be shocked if the Vikings selected JJ McCarthy despite the
(29:25):
protestations of Koc, right. I mean, we all know he
may not run the organization, but he's got a lot
of authority, and when it comes to the quarterback position,
I find it very hard to believe that a Quays
is going to do anything that the head coach doesn't
want to go along with.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah, I don't think there's any chance that that is
what happened. I mean, Kevin O'Connell was driving the bus
on that quarterback search, and it was very clear they
were going to take the player that Kevin O'Connell thought
would be a good fit for this offense. Now, Rick
By was certainly the guy at the top of their list,
and he's the guy that I think they would have wanted.
I mean, they had their eye on him back into
(30:07):
twenty twenty three. They knew how good he could be,
and they were very excited about the possibility of if
they don't take a quarterback in twenty three, they might
be able to come back and get him the next year.
The problem was when they won seven games, it put
them farther back in the quarterback order. I guess then
they would have wanted to be, and it just was
(30:27):
going to be very difficult to get up there. I think,
you know, if you want to Monday morning quarterback this
pardon the punt, it would be. Should they have spent
even more than they were offering to go up and
get Frake May, I mean, it would have been an
extremely high price to do it, and I don't know
if the Patriots would have done it even then. It
looks like the Patriots made the right decision to stick
and pick because Drake May has been fantastic this year.
(30:48):
But I think the idea that they took a player
that Kevin O'Connell did not want just not the case.
It doesn't make any sense. I think ultimately the reason
they said we can walk away from the Drake medial
with they've felt good enough about their other options that
they didn't need to give up quite as much to
go get him. So you know that decision will be
(31:10):
judged by history here. But I think Kevin O'Connell was
very much on board with getting JJ McCarthy, believing he
could win with him here.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
You know, we had a question asked much earlier in
the program that I want to run by you, and
it's kind of impossible to answer, but it's worth trying
to answer, I think, And he said, you know, if
the Vikings had had to this point in the season
even serviceable quarterback play, would they not be at least
in the playoff chase? And I think the answer to
(31:42):
that is they probably would. I mean, again, how many
games is it worth you win two more? You're still
only six and six, But there's been a number of
games this year where you go, well, you're getting nothing offensively,
especially the last several weeks. What do you think about
that is, if you get not great quarterback play, but
serviceable quarterback play, are you and I still talking about
a playoff opportunity at this point the season.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah, I think they probably are. I mean, just looking
back on it. They lost to the Steelers by three,
they lost to the Eagles by six. Ravens was an
eight point game, the Bears two point game, one that
they should have won because they had the lead there
at the end, and that was even on a day
where McCarthy did not play very well. So if you say,
you know, say three of those games go their way
(32:27):
in the kind of one score game department, then you're
talking about a team that's seven and five at this
point and they're right in the mix, or even if
two of those are in their favor at six and
six and they still have a chance. So yeah, I
think that is true. And you look at there was
a lot of issues with the fall starts in the
Ravens game, and I think McCarthy's probably part of that
with some of the Cadence stuff. And then certainly the
(32:48):
Bears game was and you know, the Eagles game would
have still been Carson Wentz and the Steelers game would
have been Carson Wentz. But you know you're talking at
that point about a guy that's still coming and I
think played relatively well, at least in the Steelers game
from what I remember that that morning in Dublin. But yes,
I think if they had had better quarterback play, particularly
(33:10):
not turning the ball that had been the single biggest issue. Yes,
I think they'd still be in the playoff.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Mixt do we have? So we got at least two
offensive linemen I think officially listed as questionable. Can you
update us on those injuries and any others?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yeah? Yeah, so Christian Darrisaw Donovan Jackson both questionable for Sunday.
Darrisaw was back to full participation today. O'Connell found it
optimistic about both of those guys today. I think Darrisaw
probably has a little better chance than Jackson, who was
limited again today and was a d NP on Wednesday.
(33:46):
So I wouldn't be surprised if think give Jackson another week,
but I think Darrisaw. It's I mean, none of this
is necessarily anything new at this point. It's just the
knee on the injury report. At this point, the ankle
is off of there doesn't mean it's completely healed, but
it's not causing him to land on the injury report
at this point, So I would think the assumption is
he plays, and they would be ready to have him
(34:09):
for as much of the game as they can get him.
Donovan Jackson will see. If it's not him, it's Blake Brendal,
who's out of the concussion protocol. So the three guys
that are questionable for Sunday or Jackson, Darrisaw and ty Chandler,
who's coming back from injury reserve, and then they will
be without Theo Jackson and Leviy Drake Rodriguez. Both those
guys were ruled out because of neck injuries today, and
(34:29):
then everybody else should be ready to go. No injury
designations for Ryan Kelly, for Josh Mattelis, JAMJ McCarthy is
obviously out of the concussion protocol. Jonathan Grenard should be
ready to go. So it's really those offensive line starters
that they have to make a decision on, and I
think we'll see more of that Sunday morning, but I
think Darriso probably has the better chance at least as
(34:50):
they sit here on Friday.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Is this a game in which the Vikings have to
quietly secretly worry about the crowd, I think so.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
I mean, they've lost four in a row, they got
shut out last week for the first time since two
thousand and seven, they haven't scored a touchdown since November sixteenth,
and the last time the crowd saw them at home,
they blew it at the end against the division rival.
So yes, I think they will be at risk of
getting booed and hearing about it pretty early if things
(35:23):
don't start well. I go, yeah, I think that's completely
the case. And I think Kevin O'Connell would say, hey,
it's fairer because I know it bothers him when they
don't win at home, because I think he feels it
in terms of the impact that it has in the fans.
They've lost three in a row at home, and they
don't like to lose in that building because it has
(35:46):
been a pretty good home field advantage for them. And
you know, this is the second time in three years
that they've struggled to win at home and that has
a lot to do with why they are where they are.
It's all been one score, gamplitly at home. So yeah,
I think if they don't come out well, especially against
the team that you should be able to move the
ball on. I would imagine the fans will get a
little bit restless. So how they get going on Sunday
(36:08):
could have a lot to do with how they're received
and what the pulse of that place is, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
The takeaway turnover differential, as you discussed earlier, is astonishing.
It's minus fifteen. There are only two teams I see
in double digits in the minus category, the Vikings and
the New York Jets, and obviously the other end of
the spectrum, and this is largely why the Bears are
in such a good position. They're plus seventeen. I mean,
(36:36):
that's a swing of thirty two between the Vikings on
one end and the Bears on the other. I mean
that as much as we examine so many other aspects
to this thing, you break it all down, really a
lot of it, eighty percent of it goes back to
that single statistic.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Correct, Yeah, it does. I mean was looking at it.
They've turned the ball over more than any team in
the NFL. They've thrown more interceptions than any team in
the NFL, I mean, nineteen interceptions in a season in
this day and age is almost unheard of. I'm trying
to think of the last time a Vikings team got
picked off this much in a year. I have to
(37:17):
think it's been a very long time. I'm actually looking
back on it. They got picked off as many times
in twenty three, which was the year that they went
through all the different quarterbacks, but they were still getting
a little bit more in terms of takeaways and certainly
more productive with Kirk Cousins the first half of that season.
So yeah, it is a astonishing number, especially with still
(37:39):
five games to go. It's going to go into the
twenties and now I'm curious to see the last time
that it's been this high. But I have to think
it's been a very long time because quarterbacks just don't
throw interceptions very much.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Now.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
It's much more you're not throwing the ball over the middle,
or at least putting yourself at risk when you do it.
Everything quarterbacks are just more precise, more accurate. I don't
think that that's something that you expect to see. I
mean that those numbers sound like something you have seen
in the nineteen seventies, I think, or maybe the eighties,
when you could kind of hang all over receivers and
(38:10):
do whatever you wanted to them, but yet to have
it to be that high in twenty twenty five is
a big deal. And then the takeaways. This defense last
year was the best in the league and it just
hasn't been anywhere near that. So yes, I mean that
is why they are where they are. I mean, the
numbers of how well they play when they win the
(38:31):
turnover battle under Kevin O'Connell are pretty clear, and it's
why that's the biggest reason they are pretty much waving
goodbye to the playoffs this year.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
In my mind, nineteen interceptions is five more than the
second worst total at fourteen. The Dolphins have thrown fourteen,
and I think the Raiders have thrown fourteen as well.
I mean, that is that is remarkably astonishing. In terms
of our our takeaway number at we're still only i
(39:02):
think at eleven for the year, and we got five
in the only home game we've won against the Bengals.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Correct, Yeah, yeah, it is. They just haven't been able
to get the same number of tips passes to turn
into picks. I think it's a lot of that. I mean,
they were able to force some humbles last year, but
a lot of it last year, which you got tips,
you got overthrows, you had cam by them back there
making a lot of plays. I do think they've missed
(39:29):
him in terms of coming down with interceptions. But Byron
Murphy had seven picks last year and I don't think
he has one yet this year. So it's in a
number of spots. But that pass rush gets enough pressure
that you should be able to turn some of those
plays into turnovers, and they haven't been able to do that.
And just looking back, it was digging through old stats
(39:49):
in the run up when you're asking the question. The
last time they threw more picks than this and a
season was twenty ten, which was the first the last
year with Brett Fa they've brought him back. He would
have eleven touchedout nineteen picks that year, and then Joe
Webb and t Jack added another seven. So that's what
we're talking about. It's been a very, very long time
(40:10):
since they have had this number of interceptions from the
quarterback position.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Thank you for the time, as always, have a great
Sunday and we'll chat.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Next week, all right, So good thanks Dan, Ben.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Gestling Star Tobune brought you by Standard heating and air
conditioning with some fairly sobering numbers there to discuss. So
if you have even I can do this math. If
you your defense has eleven takeaways for the entire season,
and you got five of them in a single game,
that means you've only had six in your other eleven games.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
That's not going to work no, very effectively, especially if
on the other end of the spectrum your e turnover machine,
which the Vikings have been nineteen interceptions with how many
games left to go in the season twelve five games.
I mean, that's that's hard to do. That's not taking
care of the ball. No, And we all talk about
(41:08):
Zim love taking care of the ball, didn't he He
thought he got mocked for it too. Well are they
mocking him? Now? What's Zim up to these days? Do
we know he's probably on his ranch? Probably true? Just
watching all the passing top five at five Wolves, Wild
Vikings and what time is our apology to the Minnesota
Twins
Lynnwood Township Guy formerly South Chicago Guy will be at
Lambeau Sunday. It's always who you know would love to
meet Gerby. If he's going to be there, well that
might be difficult to arrange, but maybe word can get
can filter to I'm sure he'll be there. The family. Yeah,
it's a matter the the the meet up, the meet
(00:34):
and greet might be a little bit difficult. Baked Ruffles, Chips, Vikings,
Running Games, slips for Brozemer Guards These Heart Skips, Wolves
and five another pretty good one, A standing one bears
(00:57):
when police So next Friday picks with Gerby as must
listen radio I sent out. I retweeted back to bat
just goes to show you that you know you can't
please everyone, so you got to please yourself. And if
you can't be with the one you love, honey, that's
the other part too, love the one you're with. H
This is from our h night. This Carl bit has
(01:20):
gotten old. Move on next year, please, or move on
next year please, John Malay, there's no better radio segment
anywhere than Barrero and Guards you with the real Carl
g change my mind, I retweeted them both. Yeah, it's
just I mean you can't get I mean, that's the
in and the hang of it right there, right, is
(01:40):
it not? It is? So I wonder if Carl will respond, Oh,
that's what I forgot to ask Carl, I retweeted, I
love these old still shots that we get of any
sport back in you know, ancient history, ancient days. So
a website called Twitter handle called Chicago History has a photo.
(02:05):
It's a terrific photo, really good quality. Bears Packers at
Wrigley Feel in nineteen thirty four. Nice the apartment buildings
in the background on Sheffield. It's a good shot of
basically you're looking out towards what would be right field.
And what's interesting is I think in those days the
(02:27):
photographers were allowed to be like almost right on the
play because the photographer it's a close up shot at
a line of scrimmage right before a play ball was
snapped and the quarterback is approaching the center. It looks
like And I asked, was great Grandpa Karl Gerbschmidt at
this game? I meant to ask him while he was
on because I think the gervischmid family goes way back
(02:49):
when it comes to Packer. I think that's how they
have a sick area. Yeah, yeah, I think it's been
in the family for a long time, so maybe I'll
ask him next time. The turf did the grass does
not look particularly good. And then there's a bunch of
players out in the bleachers way out there, and then
there's a sign.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I wonder what that.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I'm trying to close in get a close up with
a sign behind over the referee's head, but I can't
make it out. So if anybody else can make that
one out, I just retweeted it earlier today. I didn't
realize until the golfers played at Wrigley how long the
Bears actually played at Rigby. Yeah, it was like fifty years, right,
I mentioned I think it was the day, might have
been that Friday that you were gone. Because my memory
(03:36):
does fail me sometimes I go, yeah, you know, once
upon a time the Bears played at Wrigley Field. Never
saw him there, and then I had to stop myself.
I did see him there, and like it would have
been like sixty five or sixty six, Yeah, nineteen twenty
one to nineteen seventy. And what was unfortunate was I
don't know how my dad got the seats, but they
(03:59):
were literally like card table chairs on the field, like
it would be near I would say it would have
been just to the right of what would be the
third base dugout. Cool, but a terrible spot because at
least then the surface almost like curved downward, so you
(04:20):
almost felt like you were in a hole and you
had two or three rows in front of you. So
I don't know that we saw a play, but we
were there. We were at Wrigley Fields, so for whatever
that's worth, real quick, a lot of the reaction I
after admonishing Russo Radio for getting in way too many
X battles, I found myself going right down the rabbit
(04:43):
hole last night for an extended period of time. Thought
I had regrouped in the morning, and then made the
mistake of looking again, although I didn't respond any longer.
And I do want to read one tweet and it
had a lot to do. We had Andy Lueger in
studio for an hour, and the prevailing wisdom as I
(05:08):
attempt to capture it from people who were unhappy, and
those people might have been those potentially on the right
hand side of the aisle, was that they didn't they
wanted red meat from Andy, and they wanted him to
just pound away at the fraud, leaving out the fact
(05:34):
that he has done so previously, or we have talked
about it with him a multitude of times. But because
yesterday was that he was on, and because the Feeding
Our Future and other scandals are getting national attention via
the New York Times story, it's we want our red meat,
and we want it now. I have guests on each
(05:57):
of them. I may ask them questions, I may prod them.
Did prod him attempted to on the nonsense uttered by
the governor of the state of Minnesota during his Meet
the Press interview, But ultimately he gets to decide how
far he goes and what he wants to say, And
somehow that got extrapolated into well, you guys are afraid
(06:19):
of it. You guys, what you guys are? You guys
are are are glossing over the story. The reason we
had him on then and many other times before was
to hammer away at the story. The number of people
I've said this before. The one thing that does slay
me is inventing lies about what we discuss. It's fair
(06:43):
game to disagree one hundred percent, but when you pretend
because it it fits it suits your needs better. That
we have glossed over the subject of these scandals. That's
where you lose me. And but if you live in
that world, A, you might not really listen that much. B.
(07:04):
You're in a feeding frenzy yesterday, so you just want
to go for it. And so the thing that you
want to be angry. So the thing that will make
you most angry is they're glossing over it. They're letting
everybody off the hook, and they're not making as big
a deal of this as they would if it was
a Republican administration. Those are lies. I don't know how
to prove it to you other than go back if
(07:24):
you one to take the time podcast day after day
after day, but one there was one post in particular
that got my attention from a guy named Phil Dan
had a very well reasoned interview with the only only
person in Minnesota who did anything regarding the Somali fraud.
That's his term. You forget the state government not only
(07:48):
brought no charges, but told the DHS to ignore their
findings and keep funding the fraud. Luger filed the charges.
It's the great to this whole story. Luger is not
I mean in many ways, he's more interested in substance
(08:09):
over the style of rhetoric, you know, like I've got
to you know, not only am I going to prosecute
to the fullest extent of the law, I'm going to
pontificate on it over and over again. He doesn't like
to do his work that way. I respect that that's
up to him, but to forget that the only reason
(08:33):
you have this red meat, incredibly inviting red meat is
that Andy Lueger went to the FAD, went to his
bosses and said, we got something major going on in Minnesota.
I'm ready to tackle it, but I need a bunch
more people. I need to expand my office dramatically, and
(08:55):
they signed off on it. The only reason any of
this got done was is tenaciousness. So to make him
the object of your ire is just ludicrous in that
you don't have the story if he doesn't pursue it
as emphatically and tenaciously as he did. It's just so
(09:16):
I thought that tweet kind of handled it very very well.
Rhetoric is and you and I think what people also
have to understand you each one of us makes a
decision on how far is enough or angry enough? But
I can tell you I know myself pretty well, and
my level of vitriol and anger related to this story,
(09:38):
and my viciousness on air for many years, certainly the
last twelve to eighteen months as the thing has intensified,
is up there with.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Any of them.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
I mean it it. It may hurt the feelings of
those Well, he's a lefty. You can call me whatever
you like. I don't care anymore whatever label fits you.
Oh how you want to to describe me, fine, free country,
call me a hardcore lefty. But two things can be true.
(10:08):
If you think I'm a hardcore lefty, you can't accuse
me of going easy on this and the idea that
we mean harder on the Republicans. I can't get any
harder than yelling into the microphone, mocking and ridiculing over
and over again. The lack of accountability, the fact that
nobody has really paid any kind of a price, and
(10:28):
the hamhanded way the governor has swung and missed repeatedly
on this story, as recently as to meet the Press interview,
which I discussed yesterday on the show as well. In fact,
we're gonna come back with a little bit of sound
from our guy lou Goose. You're familiar with lou Ra
Goose Love look Trepid reporter Caro Levin guest on this
(10:49):
program many times. There's a video that he has set
out that also plays into much of this conversation. I'll
just say, though, if you want more from Andy Lueger,
I just I think you're wasting your time. I think
you're forgetting he's the one guy you go well, I
may want him to to speak more viscerally on the subject,
(11:12):
but you can't get any more visceral than making the
cases as effectively as he did, and then as his successor,
has followed that up very nicely as well to creating
the attention rightly deserved about how poorly this state has functioned.
For a number of reasons, he doesn't walk away from
(11:32):
the race issue. He's fearless on that issue, which is
exactly what you should be looking for. He's even fearless
on the issue of whether there's something in the culture
in the in the country in Somaia that is also
in some cases being driven back here. That as enters
into the number of individuals who have been convicted who
have that background. So I don't I know what you're
(11:56):
looking for. I know what you're looking for, but you
you need to I think, devote more of attention and
your anger at someplace else, as far as I'm concerned,
than the guy who set the whole damn thing in motion.
Almost from the beginning, we'll come back with the regoose
sound and then prepare for I should say, Ben Gesling,
he's gonna join us at fourth. I have gotten some
(12:30):
questions about, Okay, how do you think the local media
has done handling this story. I think it's mixed, To
be honest with you, I think some have handled it
pretty well. I believe that there is a lot more
meat on this bone from a reporting standpoint, if there
is a stomach for it and an interest in pursuing it.
(12:52):
I don't think there's any And a lot of it
is separating rhetoric. Like we mentioned the the the workers
at the one department that said, basically, but we don't
really know who is speaking, that made a number of
very serious allegations. We talked about that with with Andy,
(13:13):
and I agree with what he said, which is, it's
a lot of disturbing stuff there, But where is that
you know? That would have to be vetted who is speaking.
Have they come forward? He's He basically said, our office
was looking for, you know, people coming forward forever. So
I think there is much more to get to, and
(13:35):
I think one of the reporters who does try to
hold proper feet to the fire and follow the story
no matter which direction it might go is Lou Ragoseho.
We've had on many times over the years from Caro
leven and including on this story, including on this story.
From the title, that's exactly right, yep. So there's some
visual aspects to what he says here, but it's you
(13:55):
can follow it, just most of it via the audio.
This is something I think that Lou sent out via
x earlier today, raising questions on a number of things
that politicians have said regarding who was taking care of
the fraud, who stepped in, and who didn't.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Minnesota Governor Tim Walls and his political allies continued to
incorrectly claim that the state was responsible for stopping the
massive Feeding our Future fraud, despite the evidence that's come
out in each trial and the legislative audit that was
done proving that false. This week, at an event, Walls
claimed the state Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, which the governor
oversees investigated the case, then handed it over to the
(14:37):
federal authorities who charged it. The truth is the BCA
was not involved at all.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
It was the FBI.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Then on CNN SA Paul Mayor Melvin Carter said this, and.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
By the way, those fraud allegations were uncovered by local
law enforcement and our state attorney general press charges. Actually,
our state law enforcement presence is what caught That is
what how those folks accountable.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Again, it's not true that local law enforcement uncovered the
fraud and who prosecuted it. It was the US Attorney's office,
not the state attorney general. Look at the timeline here
from the legislative audit in February twenty twenty one, the
FBI actually first contacted the Minnesota Department of Education about
fraud allegations that they had heard about. Then in April
(15:22):
twenty twenty one, MD provided info to the FBI about
the fraud. Remember how there was also a lawsuit after
the Education Department did try to stop paying the fraudsters. Well,
in that case, the Attorney General's office in MDE did
not even tell the judge that fraud was the reason
they wanted to stop paying look at this damning deposition
of MDE Assistant Commissioner Darren Cordy during that civil case,
(15:44):
Feeding Our Future's lawyer asked, did you ever address with
the commission or the possibility of there being any fraud
in the meal programs? Corty answers no, not in those terms.
Then does MD to your knowledge have any reason to
suspect there's been intentional acts of fraud with respect to
the meal programs in Cordy answers no. At this point,
(16:05):
I've reported over one hundred stories on the Feeding Her
Future case. I know an untrue statement about this case
when I see one. If this talking point from the
governor continues, you can consider this the fact check. I'm
louver Goose follow for more news.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
That's uh, lou or goose. If you didn't tell oh,
very effective. And again, I you know a lot of
this there is still you can even in the comments
that he who was was kind of riffing on and
responding to and rejecting. That's part of the problem, pretending
(16:42):
that various individuals on the local level of the state
level stepped up when they didn't, and the the the
Democrats who are in positions of authority. They need to
come to grips with that and and have some willingness
to acknowledge it and offer greater accountability. There's absolutely no
(17:05):
question about it. You know, I've even heard you start debune.
We get into this little game of well, the Republicans
are using this as a political wedge. I'd be fine
with that as an observation if I'd ever heard it
regarding Democrats using a particular story as a political wedge.
There are times when the story itself should be about
(17:27):
more than the politics, even though politicians are going to
try to take advantage of it because that's what they do,
and believe me, they do it on the left side
of the aisle and the right side of the isle.
But the questions that are being raised here, the examples,
the contradictions offered up again in the Regose report of
many others says that you don't have to be on
(17:48):
one side of it. You don't have to be a
shark or a jet to say, what the hell's going
on here? And where is the willingness to look in
the mirror a little bit and not pretend that individual
agencies got involved and made a difference when they didn't
that's part of the problem. And the other thing, which
we talked about in depth with Andy the last two
times he's been on Minimum is that we had and
(18:11):
he said this flat out, we have to get over
the notion that an allegation of racism is a is
racism or automatically means that racism applies in a particular case.
Within the Democratic Party, there needs to be a come
to Jesus meeting that if you curl up in the
(18:33):
fetal position as soon as someone yells race because of
your concern that area, you're doing everybody a disservice, quite frankly,
including those who are really facing you know, racism as
a situation, a racist situation. You know, you end up
cheapening the real stories and the real examples. The idea
(18:54):
that that, and it was proven in court several times.
That was part of the leverage that many of these
criminals took to get the state to go belly up.
We're going to go after you publicly and we're going
to brand you all a bunch of racists. That can't
work anymore. And that's a problem I think within the
(19:16):
party that immediately says, oh my god, racism charges We
got to be sensitive about that. We have to realize
who's involved in this situation. The sensitivity should be following
the facts and following the story, not being bowed or
bowed immediately by that allegation. And over and over there
are indications that that's what drove the states. I guess
(19:41):
you could say decision making in this case, or unwillingness
to follow this particular story. That's a problem that should
be examined and discussed, not put, you know, behind closed doors,
but confront it and be honest about it. And there's
not anywhere near enough honesty about it, and there's not
enough discussion about it either. Bottom of the hour break,
(20:01):
we'll get to your guy, Ben Gessling, who's in who's
out for the vikings, and we'll ask for his interpretation
of what the head coach had to say about JJ McCarthy.
All that's coming up next. All right, maybe Ben Gasling
(20:41):
can be the ultimate arbiter of what sadly has become
sport in this town. This week the whisper whisperer, the
team is foreign eight. That means the playoffs are not
even a whisper. So we got to fill in the time.
So now it's a game of interpreting every single sentence,
(21:05):
every word, every inflection offered by the head coach on
the quarterback nine. JJ McCarthy. Ben Gessling joins us via
the Connectico via the Connetico Water Systems hotline thanks to
our good friends at Standard Heating and Air Conditioning. So
here's what's fascinating to me about the interpretation of Koc's dreams. Well,
(21:29):
actually it's not dreams. Actually what he said this week,
I took it guards he took it as well. Really, yeah,
that's what I think many of us, not second guessing,
but first guessing said all along that it might be
a better approach with JJ McCarthy, and is him maybe
kind of acknowledging that he put too much on the plate. However,
(21:50):
a dissenting opinion that I heard earlier today is from
Matthew Cooller. He interpreted the comments this week from the
head coach at Okay, go do it, man, I've done
I've done my due diligence. I'm the quarterback whisper. I've
done everything I can do for you. At some point
(22:11):
you're gonna sink or swim. You're just gonna have to
go play. Almost more of a I'm distancing myself from
you because I've done everything. It's on my plate, that's
my obligation, so go play some football. So where are
you on interpreting this all this stuff?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I think the idea that Kevin O'Connell, who talks as
much as he does about organizations failing quarterbacks, would be
distancing himself or washing his hands of J. J. McCarthy
after six starts is a little hard to believe. I
have a hard time thinking he would say that publicly.
(22:47):
I think a lot of this has been realizing, you know,
kind of like you said that he's probably put a
little too much on his plate in terms of changing
mechanics during the season they are at seeing him. I
was just having a good conversation about this in the
locker room today with a couple of people, in terms
of how much different he's being asked to play at
(23:08):
the NFL level. And this is just a matter of
trying to decipher defenses that are doing way more complex
thing than you are in college. It is a lot
to learn on the fly. And we can have the
conversation about should they have gone into this season assuming
or hoping that they could go as far with him
as they did, given how much of a learning curve
(23:28):
there was going to be to this. But I think
it's more of a realization that, Okay, we've tried it
and it's just going to take a little longer to
try to make it all work. So I think some
of this is him looking at what can I do
to help this player given the current state of things,
more so than it then you know, okay, I got
to just go out and have you been for yourself?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
You know this well, we talked about it at the
top of the show. The added pressure for McCarthy, I
think right now, despite the fact that the team pressure
is pretty much gone in terms of the postseason, is
that I believe the next three opponents rank all three
of them rank in the bottom five defensively in points allowed.
(24:12):
So to me, that is going to be the test
for JJ right because I think we're all looking for
some signs of progress, and if he comes close to
keep to continuing to struggle at the level he has
tended to struggle, I gotta believe there's even going to
be more alarm bells going off, given, at least on paper,
(24:32):
the defenses he is about to face.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
No doubt I would make the case that these five games,
I mean, the playoffs are probably not going to happen.
It would take them winning out and getting a lot
of help. It's not something I would expect to happen.
But I think these next five are as important for
the organization as a whole as anything we would see
in a playoff type season. And here's why I say
(24:56):
that they need to have something to hang their hat
on from this season. With regard to JJ McCarthy, I
remember my first year on the beat. Christian Ponder was
in the second year as a starter, and I know
everybody probably just had a little bit of a reaction
when I said that name. But the last game of
that season, which was his second full year in the league,
(25:16):
he goes out and plays well enough, you know, makes
the big throws. Didn't end up for three hundred and
sixty five yards like Aaron Rodgers did, but he makes
the complimentary throws to help them win the game, beat
the Packers in conjunction with Adrian Peterson going for one
hundred and ninetynine yards, and they go to the playoffs.
And obviously he didn't play in that playoff game, but
they spent that entire offseason talking about, well, if he
(25:38):
could bottle what he did in that Packers game, then
we see more of that. We feel like we have
something to go on here. And I think it's a
bigger deal with McCarthy because I think the hopes are
higher for him. I think there is more of a
ceiling that they see in terms of what he can be.
But you need something to say in March and April. Hey,
(26:01):
look back to what he did on December seventh against
the Commanders or December fourteenth against the Cowboys. We can
see where the progress is and we need to have
something to go on. I think it's really important for
them to see that. And the other thing to mention
here is that after Sunday they're back on National TV.
The Sunday after that, they are in the backyard of
(26:22):
the owners of the team, the team that they grew
up rooting for, and then after that they're on Netflix
on Christmas Day. So this is going to play out
in big audiences or in a couple of cases, national
TV audiences, and then then the other one in a
venue that is particularly important to the ownership of the team.
So I think all of this is extremely important for
(26:45):
the vision of this and what it means and how
much change they are kind of expected to make personnel
wise and possibly staffing wise.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
At the other year, Ben Gesling has always brought you by,
as I said, standard heating and air conditioning. In terms
of how all this might translate regarding game plan approach.
What have you picked up this week? What do you
sense in that regard?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Well, I mean when he's talked about simplifying things, I
asked Wes Phillips a little bit more this week about
what that means. And it's probably a little less volume
in the playbook. It's maybe a little more consistency in
formations because I think one of the things they've run
into is you have so many different pieces on the
offensive line that has not been together very much, and
you have people playing different spots, and there's just a
(27:36):
lot more room for mistakes when you have different formations
all of the time, and there's details to get lost
and maybe blocks and angles and leverage that you're not
hitting quite the right way. So some of this has
been in minutia in terms of the formations. Is facing
all of that stuff, You're going to probably see some
of those things transfer over a little bit more. And
(27:56):
that's you know, a pretty granular level. But in terms
of the play calling, I think it's going to be
you know, probably some more concepts to get him moving
quickly get the ball out of his hands. I wouldn't
be shocked if they see a little more play action.
You can kind of go back to some of the
bootleg stuff where it's a half field read. I wouldn't
be shocked if there's some things that have kind of
(28:18):
been you know, key concepts for him. I think some
of the times where he's getting the ball over the
middle of the field, you've seen him make those throws
probably a little bit better than when he's trying to
push it to the sidelines. So it's probably a matter
of trying to hit on concepts that he's been familiar
with and he's been comfortable with. And you know, the
touch throws have been in a struggled there's no doubt
about that. So maybe they're not leaning on those quite
(28:40):
as heavily. And then you have to get to the
point where he understands how to work in the pocket,
and I think if that line gets healthier, it's probably
an easier way to do that. Because some of the
plays where he's gotten hurt have been whether he's either
on the run or trying to extend the play. And
I think there's a little bit of a discussion too
of Hey, when you're going to do that, you've got
a slide. You got to protect yourself. But if you
(29:00):
could play within the pocket, you have to be able
to do that too.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Carl And Cottage Grove asks what if koc wanted Drake
May from the start, which I think we kind of
know and had to sell for nine and is now
beyond the point of exasperation and is symbolically telling Quasy
I told you he isn't the guy now. I would
be shocked if the Vikings selected JJ McCarthy despite the
(29:25):
protestations of Koc, right. I mean, we all know he
may not run the organization, but he's got a lot
of authority, and when it comes to the quarterback position,
I find it very hard to believe that a Quays
is going to do anything that the head coach doesn't
want to go along with.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah, I don't think there's any chance that that is
what happened. I mean, Kevin O'Connell was driving the bus
on that quarterback search, and it was very clear they
were going to take the player that Kevin O'Connell thought
would be a good fit for this offense. Now, Rick
By was certainly the guy at the top of their list,
and he's the guy that I think they would have wanted.
I mean, they had their eye on him back into
(30:07):
twenty twenty three. They knew how good he could be,
and they were very excited about the possibility of if
they don't take a quarterback in twenty three, they might
be able to come back and get him the next year.
The problem was when they won seven games, it put
them farther back in the quarterback order. I guess then
they would have wanted to be, and it just was
(30:27):
going to be very difficult to get up there. I think,
you know, if you want to Monday morning quarterback this
pardon the punt, it would be. Should they have spent
even more than they were offering to go up and
get Frake May, I mean, it would have been an
extremely high price to do it, and I don't know
if the Patriots would have done it even then. It
looks like the Patriots made the right decision to stick
and pick because Drake May has been fantastic this year.
(30:48):
But I think the idea that they took a player
that Kevin O'Connell did not want just not the case.
It doesn't make any sense. I think ultimately the reason
they said we can walk away from the Drake medial
with they've felt good enough about their other options that
they didn't need to give up quite as much to
go get him. So you know that decision will be
(31:10):
judged by history here. But I think Kevin O'Connell was
very much on board with getting JJ McCarthy, believing he
could win with him here.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
You know, we had a question asked much earlier in
the program that I want to run by you, and
it's kind of impossible to answer, but it's worth trying
to answer, I think, And he said, you know, if
the Vikings had had to this point in the season
even serviceable quarterback play, would they not be at least
in the playoff chase? And I think the answer to
(31:42):
that is they probably would. I mean, again, how many
games is it worth you win two more? You're still
only six and six, But there's been a number of
games this year where you go, well, you're getting nothing offensively,
especially the last several weeks. What do you think about
that is, if you get not great quarterback play, but
serviceable quarterback play, are you and I still talking about
a playoff opportunity at this point the season.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah, I think they probably are. I mean, just looking
back on it. They lost to the Steelers by three,
they lost to the Eagles by six. Ravens was an
eight point game, the Bears two point game, one that
they should have won because they had the lead there
at the end, and that was even on a day
where McCarthy did not play very well. So if you say,
you know, say three of those games go their way
(32:27):
in the kind of one score game department, then you're
talking about a team that's seven and five at this
point and they're right in the mix, or even if
two of those are in their favor at six and
six and they still have a chance. So yeah, I
think that is true. And you look at there was
a lot of issues with the fall starts in the
Ravens game, and I think McCarthy's probably part of that
with some of the Cadence stuff. And then certainly the
(32:48):
Bears game was and you know, the Eagles game would
have still been Carson Wentz and the Steelers game would
have been Carson Wentz. But you know you're talking at
that point about a guy that's still coming and I
think played relatively well, at least in the Steelers game
from what I remember that that morning in Dublin. But yes,
I think if they had had better quarterback play, particularly
(33:10):
not turning the ball that had been the single biggest issue. Yes,
I think they'd still be in the playoff.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Mixt do we have? So we got at least two
offensive linemen I think officially listed as questionable. Can you
update us on those injuries and any others?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yeah? Yeah, so Christian Darrisaw Donovan Jackson both questionable for Sunday.
Darrisaw was back to full participation today. O'Connell found it
optimistic about both of those guys today. I think Darrisaw
probably has a little better chance than Jackson, who was
limited again today and was a d NP on Wednesday.
(33:46):
So I wouldn't be surprised if think give Jackson another week,
but I think Darrisaw. It's I mean, none of this
is necessarily anything new at this point. It's just the
knee on the injury report. At this point, the ankle
is off of there doesn't mean it's completely healed, but
it's not causing him to land on the injury report
at this point, So I would think the assumption is
he plays, and they would be ready to have him
(34:09):
for as much of the game as they can get him.
Donovan Jackson will see. If it's not him, it's Blake Brendal,
who's out of the concussion protocol. So the three guys
that are questionable for Sunday or Jackson, Darrisaw and ty Chandler,
who's coming back from injury reserve, and then they will
be without Theo Jackson and Leviy Drake Rodriguez. Both those
guys were ruled out because of neck injuries today, and
(34:29):
then everybody else should be ready to go. No injury
designations for Ryan Kelly, for Josh Mattelis, JAMJ McCarthy is
obviously out of the concussion protocol. Jonathan Grenard should be
ready to go. So it's really those offensive line starters
that they have to make a decision on, and I
think we'll see more of that Sunday morning, but I
think Darriso probably has the better chance at least as
(34:50):
they sit here on Friday.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Is this a game in which the Vikings have to
quietly secretly worry about the crowd, I think so.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
I mean, they've lost four in a row, they got
shut out last week for the first time since two
thousand and seven, they haven't scored a touchdown since November sixteenth,
and the last time the crowd saw them at home,
they blew it at the end against the division rival.
So yes, I think they will be at risk of
getting booed and hearing about it pretty early if things
(35:23):
don't start well. I go, yeah, I think that's completely
the case. And I think Kevin O'Connell would say, hey,
it's fairer because I know it bothers him when they
don't win at home, because I think he feels it
in terms of the impact that it has in the fans.
They've lost three in a row at home, and they
don't like to lose in that building because it has
(35:46):
been a pretty good home field advantage for them. And
you know, this is the second time in three years
that they've struggled to win at home and that has
a lot to do with why they are where they are.
It's all been one score, gamplitly at home. So yeah,
I think if they don't come out well, especially against
the team that you should be able to move the
ball on. I would imagine the fans will get a
little bit restless. So how they get going on Sunday
(36:08):
could have a lot to do with how they're received
and what the pulse of that place is, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
The takeaway turnover differential, as you discussed earlier, is astonishing.
It's minus fifteen. There are only two teams I see
in double digits in the minus category, the Vikings and
the New York Jets, and obviously the other end of
the spectrum, and this is largely why the Bears are
in such a good position. They're plus seventeen. I mean,
(36:36):
that's a swing of thirty two between the Vikings on
one end and the Bears on the other. I mean
that as much as we examine so many other aspects
to this thing, you break it all down, really a
lot of it, eighty percent of it goes back to
that single statistic.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Correct, Yeah, it does. I mean was looking at it.
They've turned the ball over more than any team in
the NFL. They've thrown more interceptions than any team in
the NFL, I mean, nineteen interceptions in a season in
this day and age is almost unheard of. I'm trying
to think of the last time a Vikings team got
picked off this much in a year. I have to
(37:17):
think it's been a very long time. I'm actually looking
back on it. They got picked off as many times
in twenty three, which was the year that they went
through all the different quarterbacks, but they were still getting
a little bit more in terms of takeaways and certainly
more productive with Kirk Cousins the first half of that season.
So yeah, it is a astonishing number, especially with still
(37:39):
five games to go. It's going to go into the
twenties and now I'm curious to see the last time
that it's been this high. But I have to think
it's been a very long time because quarterbacks just don't
throw interceptions very much.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Now.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
It's much more you're not throwing the ball over the middle,
or at least putting yourself at risk when you do it.
Everything quarterbacks are just more precise, more accurate. I don't
think that that's something that you expect to see. I
mean that those numbers sound like something you have seen
in the nineteen seventies, I think, or maybe the eighties,
when you could kind of hang all over receivers and
(38:10):
do whatever you wanted to them, but yet to have
it to be that high in twenty twenty five is
a big deal. And then the takeaways. This defense last
year was the best in the league and it just
hasn't been anywhere near that. So yes, I mean that
is why they are where they are. I mean, the
numbers of how well they play when they win the
(38:31):
turnover battle under Kevin O'Connell are pretty clear, and it's
why that's the biggest reason they are pretty much waving
goodbye to the playoffs this year.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
In my mind, nineteen interceptions is five more than the
second worst total at fourteen. The Dolphins have thrown fourteen,
and I think the Raiders have thrown fourteen as well.
I mean, that is that is remarkably astonishing. In terms
of our our takeaway number at we're still only i
(39:02):
think at eleven for the year, and we got five
in the only home game we've won against the Bengals.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Correct, Yeah, yeah, it is. They just haven't been able
to get the same number of tips passes to turn
into picks. I think it's a lot of that. I mean,
they were able to force some humbles last year, but
a lot of it last year, which you got tips,
you got overthrows, you had cam by them back there
making a lot of plays. I do think they've missed
(39:29):
him in terms of coming down with interceptions. But Byron
Murphy had seven picks last year and I don't think
he has one yet this year. So it's in a
number of spots. But that pass rush gets enough pressure
that you should be able to turn some of those
plays into turnovers, and they haven't been able to do that.
And just looking back, it was digging through old stats
(39:49):
in the run up when you're asking the question. The
last time they threw more picks than this and a
season was twenty ten, which was the first the last
year with Brett Fa they've brought him back. He would
have eleven touchedout nineteen picks that year, and then Joe
Webb and t Jack added another seven. So that's what
we're talking about. It's been a very, very long time
(40:10):
since they have had this number of interceptions from the
quarterback position.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Thank you for the time, as always, have a great
Sunday and we'll chat.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Next week, all right, So good thanks Dan, Ben.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Gestling Star Tobune brought you by Standard heating and air
conditioning with some fairly sobering numbers there to discuss. So
if you have even I can do this math. If
you your defense has eleven takeaways for the entire season,
and you got five of them in a single game,
that means you've only had six in your other eleven games.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
That's not going to work no, very effectively, especially if
on the other end of the spectrum your e turnover machine,
which the Vikings have been nineteen interceptions with how many
games left to go in the season twelve five games.
I mean, that's that's hard to do. That's not taking
care of the ball. No, And we all talk about
(41:08):
Zim love taking care of the ball, didn't he He
thought he got mocked for it too. Well are they
mocking him? Now? What's Zim up to these days? Do
we know he's probably on his ranch? Probably true? Just
watching all the passing top five at five Wolves, Wild
Vikings and what time is our apology to the Minnesota
Twins
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