Kevin Seifert! - Bumper to Bumper 11/25/25 Hour Two

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
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Speaker 2 (00:04):
You can join us live at Shields nad Prairie Tuesday,
December second, five thirty am to six thirty am. All Right,
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Speaker 1 (00:46):
Seafford is in studio Kevin Sifford, e s p N
dot com. On a day that well, it's it's a
it's a very challenging traffic day, and I don't you
often the Wednesday before Thanksgiving can be because people are
getting out of Dodge early, maybe more people are getting
out earlier, or even that coupled with the fact that

(01:09):
we got a lot of rain. Apparently snow coming means
whatever direction you're headed, it's it's not fun this afternoon.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Especially if you're coming from Egan to Saint Louis Park.
Apparently that was the traffic was flying in the other
direction for the most part on my way over here.
But whether it's rain or anticipation of snow tomorrow. There's
a lot of people out there.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
One hundred percent true, and I'm glad you made the effort,
nevertheless to get in here today because this is our
last day of the week. This is a good question
that I hadn't seen coming. But it's a good toss
up to start. Are we wasting the prime years years
of will rekerd Well? You can kick well.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Into your thirties and even into your forties. So he's
just getting started. But he's getting started very well. I
mean imagine we were talking about this yesterday.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Project him on any of a number of good, you know,
reasonably good Vikings teams to have him as a weapon.
I mean could count.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
And it's not just like the reliability which like normally
in Vikings history. If you could just have a reliable
guy that can hit a twenty seven yard field goal
when it's a little chili out, you'd be doing great.
Uh he has, I think, he said, as is it
an NFL record?

Speaker 1 (02:27):
The most?

Speaker 3 (02:27):
He said, four fifty nine plus yard field goals this year,
so two from fifty, three from fifty nine and one
from sixty one.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
The longest in Green Bay was what fifty nine Well
this was the second longest.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
There was a six old, but I'm just saying within
that game, Oh yeah, he had a fifty nine yard
and that one looked to me.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Like it was going to be good for it could
have been sixty five yards.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, And Matt Daniels was talking today they they working
towards that side of the field during the pregame, like
the furthest he could hit was from fifty five because
the wind was blown.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, that's where there was speculation on whether they'd even
even they know they'd been really good, that they were
going to chance putting him out there. They miss obviously
great field position. That's why I think the Packers took
a time out right.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Before the kick, right, and so they were having this
active discussion, and some people said it looked like a
riker was upset on the sideline. So I don't know
if the initial decision was no go, but they basically
decided the win wasn't as bad anymore as it had been.
O'Connell said let's go for it, and he drilled it.
So that's the the only There only been one other
field goal longer than that in the history of lambeau
Field that was made and so like that's even in

(03:29):
the nice time of the year in September or what
have you. And so that's awfully impressive. And just his
long distance accuracy, Like I said, four field goals already
this year from fifty nine plus. I mean that's just
five years ago. That would be unheard of. Crazy that
you're even attempting that many of that long.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Have you gotten any sort of reaction to or even
listened to the apparently the recent Kurt Warner YT podcast
show a little bit of it. I did see supposal.
I've not seen it. I know nothing about it. It's
being described here as pretty hard on not just the quarterback,

(04:07):
but on the scheming. The text right seven seven six
y three? Guy, are the Viking scheming plays to lose games?
Because after watching the recent Kurt Warner podcast it so
it's it seems so that that is indeed the case.
So what did he allege? Do you think there's any
viability to it? What do you make of it?

Speaker 3 (04:28):
I didn't see enough of it to accurately describe it,
but I think it was related to just so they
are they having enough quickly developing plays for for the
quarterback to hit the first guy. And so some people
just call that quick game, some people call it different things.

(04:48):
Kevin O'Connell has talked about quick game this year and
reminded everybody that if you're calling quick game, you got
to make that throw right away. And the implication is,
and we can see it with our own eyes, is
sometimes they're there's quick games that that JJ McCarthy kind
of hesitates on and that you know, then you're just
it's just a drop back pass with pass blocking that's
not as good as it would normally be. And so

(05:10):
there's a there's a push and pull there. You know,
there's and there's been I saw another one, J T.
O'Sullivan who was a quarterback here recently. I did watch
all of his video and he you know, he mentioned,
you know the fact that they're running a lot and
sometimes putting the quarterback in bad passing downs, like you
don't want to put the quarterback, you know, and only

(05:31):
throwing on third down.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
You want him to throw in neutral.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
But that that to me, like and that kind of
inspired the tweet that I had today about you know,
remembering like how pass happy this guy usually is and
if he.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Wasn't if he's yeah, the other direction.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
And so I think that you know very clearly that's
the approach that Kevin O'Connell and his staff thought they
needed to take to give themselves a chance to win.
And that's a reflection probably of the faith in the
quarterback as much as anything.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
This was I think the first game where I felt
that was, oh great, the fire light is going off.
We're gonna have to evacuate blakemore. What's going on with
the fire? Do we have a fire alarm? I think
regularly scheduled, So all good, stay here. I just want
to be sure. No, I mean you never to up here.
We're kind of high up. This was a good time.
We're doomed for Yeah, if there's the window, this window open.

(06:21):
I don't think those windows, well, maybe you can crash
them open.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
I mean, I'm not when when it's your life dependent
on I've been doing radio here for how many years.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
That's the first time in my memory that that the
fire light has gone. We've had tests, but I don't
remember it actually being in the building where that was
the case. But I think I got an email. I'll
take your word for it. Okay, I want to you,
this could be it. If it's If it's it, it's
on your conscience. Well, if you're if you'd be dead
too that I guess it wouldn't matter. Yeah, that's that's

(06:50):
the difference. There's no conscience for that.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
I'm looking for the hinges on this window. What floor
are we on?

Speaker 1 (06:55):
The fifth? We're on five. So, uh, this was first
game where I thought he literally said we're gonna try
to win thirteen to ten, and and so he probably
felt pretty good about it until the muffed punt. Like
you said, now, I still don't know that they would
have won, but playing it that's ten times closer to

(07:16):
the vest than he's ever played it before, and it
is the ultimate. Now. Part of that I kind of
liked because I thought he was not willing enough to
make these adjustments. But it was very clear when it's
it's second and two and he's handing the ball off
again to get the first down, that's very different than
anything he has done before. And he may have felt like, well,

(07:38):
this is you don't know, you have a chance in
this game, even if it doesn't mean we're really you know,
giving him the opportunity to prove what he's capable of doing.
We'll get to that later. Let's just try to stay
afloat for a game or two.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
That's what felt like, right, yeah, and that I mean
that had always been you know. The approach this year
is that there's this roster is talented enough to win
games without the quarterback carrying you. So like then, but
that's a big range of like what does it mean
for the quarterback to not be carrying you? And so
in this case, it was fifty eight percent design runs

(08:09):
in the first half, which for context, that was only
the third That was the highest that Kevin O'Connell's ever
had in the first half at any level, certainly since
he got to Minnesota in twenty twenty two, and they'd
only had two other games where they were a fifty percent.
So that tells you, like how much that deviated from
what he normally does and how he thinks ideally the

(08:29):
best way to win games is.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
This is from Saul and Blaying, a regular contributor. I'm
a bros Obo. I'll be having my wife order me
a Brosemer jersey for Christmas. The kid earned a spot
on this roster, busted his tail and look good in
preseason earn a spot. He was not annoyed to the
savior and given the keys to a fourteen win squad,
and theory made improvements that really are not paying off.
McCarthy is absolutely regressed and drove the sports car straight

(08:54):
into the ditch. There's a lot on that in that text.
I want to get to the McCarthy part in a minute,
but already people are playing out the obvious scenario. I'll
ask it this way. I mentioned this to Johnny Athletic yesterday.
I think a quarterback whisperer could make the case that

(09:16):
for right now, Max Brosmer might be better prepared to
play competently serviceably in a given game out right now
than McCarthy because he is older. His game is not
about athleticism at all. It apparently is very much about
I just I know my limitations. I'm gonna get the

(09:37):
ball out fast, whatever I have to do. But that's
still not the same thing as saying are assuming that
he has the higher upside because that cliche applies. It's
that's going to be the tricky part. If let's say
he goes to Seattle and plays pretty well, I don't
know if they win. Let's just say they lose by seven,
but he throws two touchdown passes, no picks, and the
offense does look better. At least there are going to

(09:58):
be people, as you know, they're going to say, that's it,
we got our guy. Yeah, let's just play this thing out,
and maybe Brosemer will end up being that one in
a million. You know, it's possible. I won't rule that out,
but you know, and I know, the tricky part of
the evaluation is it isn't just who's most ready to
play maybe to give you the best chance to win
a game today. It's who's got the potential to reach

(10:21):
that point where you know down the road he's a
guy who could make every play right. That's the tricky
part of this thing.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
And I wouldn't if you know, I know fans and
media probably too won't be able to help themselves. But
I wouldn't waste an ounce of brain energy on trying
to project what Max Brozmer can be based on what
he does Sunday one way or the other. You know,
what's a backup quarterback supposed to do. He's supposed to
come in and ideally be able to run your offense

(10:47):
while your starter is out and I think that in
that kind of low bar, you know, Brozmer is capable
of doing that.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
I agree.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
Look, they didn't intend for him to be on This
is not like a fighting a way to and I
know you know that, but like, but like people should know,
like like when they sign an undrafted rookie, there is
no intent to have him be on the field by
the end of the year, and if he does, something
has gone terribly wrong. And many things, multiple things that
that position have gone terrible wrong, terribly wrong, including the

(11:18):
Carson Wentz injury.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Because their decision in the off season for the who
the original backup QB was going to be, Yeah, and that.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
Was and you could even just you know, expanded into
like and this will be a big off season discussion too,
but like did they make did they judge was it
the right judgment to put JJ McCarthy in the spot
they put him in, because right now it doesn't look
like it. And so all those things happened, and that
has left Max Brozmer in this position and he might

(11:46):
well do what you ask a backup quarterback to do,
which is kind of the parameters you just gave. And
there's not a single thing you can project off of that,
other than that's what you hope from a backup quarterback
in this league?

Speaker 1 (11:58):
What made you I felt like there was You were
in Green Bay, obviously, yeah, and I felt like there
was something that you either saw or detected both during
the game and maybe even in the locker room after
that said to you that, Yeah, I can point to
a lot of other bad plays by a number of
other players. You could say, certainly Derisa did not have

(12:18):
a particularly distinguished day against Micah. You had the muff punt,
you had some other mistakes made by other people. But
the impression I had from what you wrote was that this,
more clearly than ever before, is about the quarterback. Yeah,
that's the problem right now. That absolutely is making everything
else look perhaps even worse than it is. So was

(12:41):
that about do you feel that watching it or did
you also sense something in the locker room that, despite
all the platitudes that the players are trying to hang
in and be patient, told you that they know this too. Yeah,
it was. It was a very morose locker room.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
And we walked in, you know, JJ McCarthy was kind
of like kind of blankly staring into his locker and
he looked well that, you know, it's interesting, like I'd
interpreted we all interpreted it as well. He's just really disappointed,
shock that it went this poorly, and like you know,
Lambeau Fields, this hallowed place, and he had come and
everybody was watching, and it was more of the same,
if not worse than what it had been in retrospect.

(13:20):
Quite possibly that was a sign that he was, you know, concussed.
But you know, justin Jefferson looked very morose, like it
was a very it was more than just like your
your veteran team is disappointed that they lost a game.
It just it just felt like a very morose thing.
And then we talked to Josh Mintelis, who was a
really upbeat guy. He's a team captain and and he's like, oh, no,

(13:42):
JJ's playing great. You know, it's you can you can't
blame the quarterback for everything like this. It's just like
a dB when a run play, you know, a running
back gets into the secondary and we miss a tackle
and it's all our fault. And I guess implying that,
like there's a lot of things that go have to
go wrong for running back to even get into the backfield,
and so and O'Connell brought up, you know, Ryan Kelly

(14:03):
stepping on O'Connell's McCarthy's feed a couple of times, or
one time he brought it up twice I think, and
mentioned the Miles Price thing, and I just felt like
it was just important and we don't get to write
analysis too much or even really write more than just
kind of straight you know what happened, but it was
just a good opportunity just to kind of like recenter
everything and make sure that like we're keeping our eye

(14:25):
on the ball in terms of what's happening here, and
that it's admirable to try to disperse the blame and say,
like if Miles Price doesn't you know, muff that pund
or Ryan Kelly doesn't step on the quarterbacks feed, or this.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Week ago few people missed drop passes, yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
Or the kickoff even the kickoff coverage isn't perfect against Chicago,
Like we like, this is what's happening. This is what's
consuming the team, consuming the coaches, consuming the franchise, consuming
a lot of the fans, and like, I just wanted
to make sure that despite the attempts I think to
just that, which I understand from a team perspective, if

(15:02):
I were in their shoes, I might try to do
the same thing that, Like, you know, it's not just
to bring the weight of the world on the quarterback
or to suggest that all of this is because of
the quarterback, but like, this is the main thing, and
like to keep your eye on the main thing here
in terms of telling the story of the twenty twenty
five Vicus.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
I couldn't agree with you more. I think it, and
I think what you know, it's human nature if especially
if for a McCarthy fan to want to disperse and
to say, yeah, well they're not helping them, and yes,
and so I heard it on the national broadcast say
they're not doing any favors and all that's true. But
is there a way to quantify or articulate whether it's
through the analytics or some other way that even by

(15:42):
first year quarterbacks, in other words, quarterbacks playing for the
first time as a starter in the league, even by
that standard, what we're seeing goes well beyond that. That's
why it's so troubling. It's not up and down. Yeah,
a couple of throws here, a couple throws you made,
and a bunch of throws that you don't. This is
on another level when it comes to that, which I

(16:03):
think is why it has to be explored. This isn't Yeah,
does that mean he might, you know, not discover electricity
at some point light bulb goes off in the head
and everything changes. Maybe, But this isn't just like your
average young promising quarterback having ups and downs over the
course of a game. This stuff is I just don't

(16:23):
think it was sustainable.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yeah, And I asked our guys to look at that
and tell me, give me a way to actually do
exactly what you're saying. And what they came up with
that on Sunday is if you go back ten years,
so basically a decade, there's been seventy one quarterbacks who
have made debuts that went as long as six games,
which is what he's done. So of the seventy one,

(16:44):
basically his any number you come up with QBR yards
per game, interception to touchdown ratio, completion percentage, they're all
in the sixty five to seventy one range. So at
the very bottom of all the quarterbacks over the past
decade who have debuted. There's another stat I think Alec

(17:06):
Lewis and some other people came up with that if
you use this analytic EPA, like yes, basically what they're doing.
And so there's like eight hundred and some and he's
like one from the bottom of the eight hundred and
some and JaMarcus Russell is the only one that's worse
and arguably the biggest bust in the history of the
NFL draft, at least in modern times.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
And so it's you're right. And I think that's another
important added is for EPA EPA just so for not
environmental protection agent so today.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
And so it's important for people to know this is
not this goes well beyond your basic quarterback is new
in the NFL, and it's going to take him some
time to catch up to the normal things. We haven't
even gotten to the discussion about what we normally talk
about when it comes down quarterbacks, which is reading the

(17:56):
defense and knowing like what's where the right throw is,
or like you know, anticipating blitzes or making audibles or
like doing it spitting out the plays, you know, acting
like those are like the things that are kind of
the normal things you talk about when a quarterback is
in his first year. Because because we're still talking about
is he in the right spot in the pocket when
he's throwing, or is he does he have is he

(18:18):
facing the right direction?

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Or does he.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
You know, is he is he seeing the open receiver
but not being able to you know until after three
two or three clutches, you know, hitches to to make
that throw. So it's a it's a it's we're kind
of at step minus one instead of step one, if
that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
And that's also concerning do you believe the assumption is
that when he comes back from the concussion he'll play
because you almost have to play him. But is there
any is it? Is it bad enough that you believe
there's enough in his body of work that, whether they

(18:58):
want to admit it or not, behind the scenes, they
might be starting the process of rethinking whether they can
anoint him again at the start of training camp next
year as the number one guy.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Or you say no, that's they're not there yet. I
think they were always in that spot. Like I don't
think that they entered the season like that. It's like
a given that next year he's going to be like
this this year was. I don't think and I don't
mean that as a negative. I like this year or
that they expected him to fail or that they thought
this was not going to go well. I just think
that they went into this year like this is, you know,

(19:32):
a year where we will, in theory, you know, in
all you know optimism, you know, develop him and get
him to a point where we can get to the
end of the year and say this is our guy.
But I don't think that they started the year, you know,
at that point, like that was what they were and
so they so they are doing that, but it's not
as a result of the way he's playing. It's just
as a result of like, you can't do that until

(19:54):
you see proof positive that that it can happen.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
All right, we got a lot more cover lit, but
we've gone along this segment, so let's get a pause
in for the bottom of the hour. I will continue
with Seafert. We'll not just talk a quarterback, but that's
going to be a big part of the conversation because
it has to be and it should be. So keep
the text coming. We may add Lavelle to the mix
because we are out on Friday as well, so Leavell
also apparently been stuck in traffic forever, might join us

(20:18):
at about five thirty today, we still have the top
five at five yet to get to I've not even
mentioned a word about another late Timberwolves meltdown last night
on the road against a not very good Sacramento Kings club,
and they're about to play. Is it Wednesday night? I
think the Wolves are in Oklahoma City to take on
the Thunder, a very serious franchise, a very serious basketball team.

(20:42):
So we'll get to that lead as well.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Man, do you want to win prizes while you watch
the purple in action?

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Hey?

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Ken, you just join the fans guardzy This Sunday, Gray's
Food Haul kick off at three pm, Minnesota versus Seattle.
Great food, cold drinks and prizes every quarter. Details k
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Speaker 1 (21:11):
Kevin Seffert is in studio with us on this rather
rainy Tuesday afternoon, apparently turning to snow. We might have
a snow nami if the forecasts are accurate. I think
we're supposed to be three to six inches as the
last I saw. Is that correct? Bret Brett Blackmore, Apple
Valley twelve twenty far we know about Apple Valley. That's

(21:31):
an old inside joke, okay, having to do with the
it's the old deal of when the forecast goes wrong,
but you find like one suburb that gets nailed, all
the coverage comes from there and say, well that happened.
It was just this one place.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
People are looking out there seeing their grass.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
That's it. Two flick, that's exactly it. One other nugget
regarding the analytics you laid out on McCarthy that it
again has to be factored in. Many of the other
quarterbacks you're talking about came to terrible teams. Yeah, right,
And in fact, many times it's there were number one

(22:09):
picks or number two picks or three picks, and he generally,
unless it's a bad trade that somebody made ahead of time,
you're talking about a team that might have come off
a three and fourteen season or whatever. And that's also
part of this story here, right. That doesn't mean the
Vikings are perfect, doesn't mean everybody has played as well
as they were projected to play. Yeah, but this isn't
the normal circumstance where you say, hey, look, everybody's bad.

(22:32):
Troy Aikman was terrible, but everybody was bad with the
Dallas Cowboys, Peyton Manning when he went to the Colts.
This was not a terrible team. It may have been,
we may have inflated how good they were on the
basis of the fourteen and three last year. Yeah, but
they were not a terrible team. No.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
There's a lot of talent on this team, for sure,
especially in positions where a quarterback would in theory rely
on terms of receivers, running backs, tight ends, and a
lot when they're healthy the offensive line. But I think
this also like brings into question whether that makes it
easier on the quarterback or makes it harder on the quarterback. Yeah,
because couple cam Ward, you know who's having like if

(23:11):
you like the only like, he's having a statistically worse
season than the only one JJ McCarthy in a lot
of ways. And I don't know that national discussion has
been cam Ward's bust or like cam Ward is like
playing below an NFL level because he's on a bad team.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
The coach has already even fired.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
Like the idea is he's developing and coming along a
lot like Drake may maybe last year. Uh, he did
not look like a world beater when he was on
a bad team last year. Nobody was that concerned about
it because that's a bad team, and so you know,
there's a little bit the context of JJ McCarthy's position

(23:50):
with the team that is otherwise stacked was presumed to
be a positive, but it also has brought a lot
more attention into his every move and to his every play.
And I'll be the first to admit we all focus
on the five or six really you know, rough plays
and not on the you know, thirty to forty other

(24:13):
plays that were that went off as they're supposed to
over the course, and that you really don't have to
have too many really bad plays to have a bad
game in the NFL, and that is often the difference
between you know, good quarterbacks and ones that don't make it.
But I wonder if what we thought was a positive
for him is actually not only worked against him from

(24:35):
a perception standpoint, but maybe just added a level of
pressure to every little question she's done yep, And maybe
that in you know, there was no way to know
ahead of time, but in retrospect we might view that
as part of what's.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Gone wrong as well. He was going to be even
by less rigorous standards. I think he was always going
to be judged unfairly because people were not going to
write off this season because we've been led to believe
the Vikings were not ready to just do a gap
season and let him make as many mistakes as possible.
Let me ask you, let's get into some conspiracy talk

(25:06):
for a moment. Does the sequencing work against him for
the second time in this way? So his first injury
was an ankle correct, Yes, And there was no indication
other than I think we saw him get retaped during
the game that anything was going on with his ankle

(25:27):
that afternoon, and all of a sudden the next day
was the next day or day after, we hear about
an ankle issue, and there were people immediately who said, huh,
really he finished the game. There was no sign of it.
There was no discussion about it. Is this the old
soft benching where there's an injury but they don't mind
making it a bigger injury than it really is because

(25:48):
they kind of want to sit him for a while
as well. Similarly, there's nothing about concussion the night of
the game. I don't think now Adam Feelin said it
came up on the plane ride back. Is that ok
as well? But you're hearing it again, well, okay, yeah,
this is convenient. Yeah, he's oh yeah, he's foggy. He's foggy.
That's the that's the issue. So I'm not saying I

(26:09):
agree with the notion that this is a made up
concussion protocol thing, but I think that's what's working against
him really two things. One he's been terrible, and two
both times in the injury they've kind of come after
the fact in a way where you go, wait a minute,
this doesn't add up when everybody's always communicating this stuff.
What do you think. It's a tough one, you know.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
I what I am one certain of is that he
came to them and said and reported that he had
concussion symptoms. And in today's NFL, if someone comes to
you and report, that's it like there's I mean, obviously
they die. They they examine you, and sometimes it's a
neck thing. Sometimes it's it's not like what you exactly

(26:52):
that the symptoms can be caused by other things, and
so they check on that as well, because it doesn't
you could have concussion symptoms that are caused by injuries
other than a concussion, and so like that's a real thing,
and so they check on that. And so I had
one hundred percent certain that they checked on those things.
And did not find that there was like a neck
injury or some shoulder or something that would affect your
balance or affect your.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
You know, acuity or anything like that.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
And so in the absence of you know, concussions are
often diagnosed in the absence of other injuries, and so
in the absence of those things, they they concluded that's
where he was at. And they have ways to check
his his uh uh. There's tests that they can take
and they do take and then they compare the results
of those to your baseline tests, which is what you

(27:36):
take before the season starts. So that's part of also
of diagnosing a concussion is are your are your baseline
results or the same as your current results in terms
of your acuity and the different tests that they do,
and so there's lots of there's there's lots of things
that go into it. So I'm convinced that they did
all those things and that when it came out, like

(27:57):
the conclusion of the medical group was that we're going
to him in the concussion protocol. There are lots of
different ways that a person can can function or not
function when they have been concussed. It's a real thing
that symptoms can be delayed. Sometimes it's a real thing
that you can see. Look look at somebody who has

(28:18):
concussion as they're walking through the locker room or walking
in wherever, and you wouldn't know it, and they actually do.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
And so.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
I have no reason to doubt, and I have a
lot of reasons to believe that that's the way it
went down.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
The hit that I think you guys wrote about or
at least offered some video via X was the one
where he scrambled to the left, as I recall it,
from near the end zone, right inside the twenty. And
then I remember the play at the time because I
didn't think it was a crushing hit, but he went
down in a way where then he just kind of
spread his arms out. Yeah, and he didn't really have

(28:57):
a chance to stay there because I think it was Hawkins.
Somebody tried to help him out, helped him out right away. Yeah,
But that he to me, he looked like something was
that he had gotten jarred on that play. Who knows,
you know what.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
The very next play, he is like a drop back
pass and he steps up and he throws it, I
think to Aaron Jones, and somebody hits him from behind
and he goes straight down.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
On his face.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah, yeah, and so like that, and then the tape
kind of the the all twenty two tape kind of
ends right there. But it didn't look like he immediately
jumped up from that either, if you look at the
TV copying. So that's two straight plays where I mean, again,
like a hundred different people, one hundred different things can
happen in the exact same actions, but two different plays

(29:44):
back to back where it was certainly a lot of
contact with his head.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
He's I think we've talked about this before. I'm not
sitting here saying I know his BMI. I'm not saying
he's not in the weight room. But he gets thrown around.
He gets knocked around a lot. I don't know what
his measurements are. If I think I've just said to
you that I think he's shorter than what the he's
listed as, but you've been next to him. I mean,
I'm not saying he's Doug Flutie. But but it does

(30:10):
strike me. There's a million problems right now, but the
one that does. One of the ones that strikes me
is that he doesn't appear strong when he gets nailed.
I mean, he can get thrown literally like thrown around.
They're like, he's not there, you know, And like that
came into play. There was a play near the goal
line where he was almost thrown into the end zone.
So and you know, he's he's not the biggest guy.

(30:31):
He's talked about that. You know, I'm not Josh Allen.
I'm not you know. And when Carson Wentz came in.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
I remember, like because the three quarterbacks, the four quarterbacks
they had this summer was JJ McCarthy, Sam Howe, Brett Ripping,
I said, Greasy Brett Ripping and h and Max and
Max Brosmer and they're all about the same size. And
when you but Carson Wentz comes in and like, oh.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, quarter that's true.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
This is I forgot, Like this is what a six
five two and thirty pound quarterback? So you know, what
is JJ McCarthy six one to twenty at the start
of the season. I think a lot of players lose
some weight over the course of a season, and so
like and there's nothing you can change that, you know,
you can you can certainly spend an off season boking up,

(31:17):
uh and this, you know, instead of you know, recovering
from a knee injury or the end recovery of a
knee injury, and so maybe that'll be in his future,
but his size is going to be a size all right.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
We got a lot of texts have come in reacting
to what we've gone over so far. Let's get one
more break in. We got Kevin Steffert until the top
of the hour, Top five at five yet to come,
as well as a bonus visit. Lavelle is going to
join us by telephone at about five thirty State Tu.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Colin, Oh Wolves fans join us for Michelobultra Wolves watch Party,
Wild Boar Bar and Grill Oakdale this Wednesday, coming out
with max O Max Fuller six thirty to eight thirty pm.
Play halftime trivia and when Austin Prize is like in
Anthony Edwards Jersey Plus. Enjoy food and drink specials while
you're on the Wolves. Don't miss out all the details.
KFA on dot com, keywor Calendar.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
It's funny how things change and how quickly they do,
because the text I'm about to read captures a sentiment
that when I was offering it up as recently as
two weeks ago, I was getting ripped for but now
it seems like all bets are off and now everybody's
piling on. I'll read it. I'll bet that most Vikings
fans hope rozemer lights to join up and wins the

(32:29):
starting job. There's something about McCarthy that makes it difficult
to get behind him. There's a phony televangelist vibe to
his nine act, which you and I have talked about
a little bit. I'm going to throw this out at you.
My theory is that, in all honesty, as much as
I've rolled my eyes about some of the things that

(32:50):
he has said and the effort to sort of build
the myth before you have the resume to back it up,
if you're going to be frustrated with anybody, I don't
think it should be with McCarthy. I think it should
be with the team. It's a chip wrote about this
a little bit, and we've talked about it a lot
in this show that it certainly looks to me right
now as if they did make a significant miscalculation on

(33:14):
believing they could do the hubris of both at the
same time. Yeah, as in, he's gonna be better and
you think right away you're not gonna be perfect but
good enough, and we're gonna be a factor this year.
And what I'm concluding is he's not ready. And that's
more on them in their evaluation to me, than it
is on him, because he only can be what he

(33:36):
can be at this particular point.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
Which is interesting because I don't I can't dispute any
of that, but I was telling somebody else this, like,
he did not look like this in training camp last year,
like he he I mean, he wasn't this. Maybe it
gets back to our discussion about when the pressure's on
and things are different and you don't know until it's on.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
But he looked like he was coming like he had
he would there.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
There's none of this, like you know, Ball's sailing or
accuracy issues that I noticed. You know, he was working
with the second team, so and and you don't pay
quite as much attention a second team, but he's the
number one pick, and so I was paying a lot
of attention relative to what I normally would with the
second team, and you just didn't see that. You saw
a lot of really you know, good throws and running

(34:22):
the offense. And then he comes out in that preseason
game against Oakland and he does throw an interception pretty early,
but the rest of the of that appearance was like
super positive, and he's he's throwing the ball in the
right spots, he's accurate, he's taken off and running when
he needed to like that. And I'm telling you, man,
like at the end of last summer, before the injury,

(34:44):
he it was not out of the question that he
could have won that starting job because they he had
had all what I just said had happened, and then
they were going to go to Cleveland to have a
few days of preseason practice and and if he had
unwell there and maybe done well in the next preseason
game like it was on and maybe the Sam Darnold

(35:04):
last year doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
And I say all that.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
To mean that that was the background the Vikings had
on him as well, Like that was the tape stop
for them too at that point, and when they had
to make the decision in March, that was where the
tape ended.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
And so maybe at that point you're more.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
Conservative you say, like, this was a really traumatic past
eight or nine months for JJ McCarthy in terms of
the injury and then the second surgery and then uh,
you know, really only getting back on the field to
start exercising and working out and regaining weight in the
in January and February, and that there's just too much
has happened for us to assume that the way he

(35:45):
left off is the way he's going to pick up,
and he just that's really where the gap is is
that he did and to me that he did not
pick up where he left off the previous summer. And
it's understandable, I think, when you have the kind of
injury he had in the layoff that he had and
just like all the changes in his life that were
happening all the same time, and not able to sort

(36:07):
of rely on the on the structure that he was
used to relying on. And so that I think is
where maybe things started to go wrong. And you know,
whether they you know, whether they misjudged the idea of
competing with a new quarterback or they misjudged where he
was going to be at, regardless of whether they were
competing or not. I think that like I can see

(36:30):
why they made the decision that they made given the alternatives,
you know, the one to me and I'll continue to
say it like the one clean answer would have been
the Aaron Rodgers one and we talked plenty about that,
and that would only have pushed him back one year,
and it would have given you the the leeway in

(36:50):
the event that he didn't pick up where he left off.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
But they decided against that.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
They wanted to They trusted their ability to bring him
along in a way that would keep them competitive, and
and that appears to have been a misjudgment.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
So the name that's already coming up because we can't
help but project is mac Jones, right, because he has
looked so good in San Francisco. It feels like he's
been reborn. So that's the name that comes. Well, you
know what, you bring him in and you let him
compete for the job. Here's what you have. I need
your help on can you get at a good price,

(37:24):
at a fair price for both sides, that sort of
quarterback without saying to him it's your job. I mean
you can.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
You can trade for him because he's he's got a
two year contract. So that's the Mac Jones quandary. That's true,
his name has come up, but you can't he's not
going to be a free agent, right, and they're not
gonna cut him because there's always gonna be if they
don't want to keep him. There's always gonna be teams
that want to trade for So now you have to
give up a draft pick to get a guy that's
that you hope is going to be like the babysitter

(37:53):
for for JJ or whatever the term would be in
terms of it's like that, like that's that's the other
issue is, you know, maybe this year they have to
go out and get last year's Daniel Jones. But who
is that going to be and how is that acquisition
going to be? You know, what sort of assets do
you have to devote to getting that acquisition? And so

(38:14):
like the idea of mac Jones in my head is
like that doesn't feel like a great answer, but there's not.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
You know, there's not there's no great answers.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
You know, good quarterbacks are not you know, I know
there's always a few surprises. And I know a couple
of weeks ago, Schefter Adam Schefter mentioned just in a
discussion about the future of the position, you know, what
if he said, what if Joe Burrow decides he doesn't
want to be in Cincinnati anymore and he doesn't always
just kind of bring So that was interesting to me,
and so like that's not to suggest the Vikings are

(38:44):
going to.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Go trade for Joe Burrow.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
But what it does mean remind me of is that
there's always a couple of quarterbacks that you don't foresee
being available for whatever reason, that in the offseason tend
to get into the mix.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
What is fair to expect of the Vikings in Seattle?
Very curious to know. I mean, do you think they're
already even though they won't acknowledge it, kind of checked out.
They know they're playing a good team, it's a tough
place to win. Their season is likely over in terms
of the playoffs. Well, we're three games out of third
place in the division right now, so or is it?

(39:18):
That's not the way these guys think, and they might,
you know, you might end up being surprise because the
expectations are so low. What do you what do you expect?

Speaker 3 (39:25):
I think for the most part, they'll play hard, and
I don't expect like to see a game where where
the energy level is so low that they don't have
a chance from.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
The opening kickoff.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
I but you know, there was there's definitely some players
in the previous game that in Green Bay who did
not who were usually play pretty well you mentioned Darisa
and just didn't have a good day, and so like
there's always the possibility of that, But I think I
get like, if I had to lean which way, I
don't think they're going to go and just get stomped.

(39:57):
I think they'll be competitive, but with a quarterback who's
never thrown a meaningful NFL pass, it's hard to know
exactly where that's going to go. But I do think
they'll be They'll be competitive, and I don't think that
there doesn't feel at this point like this is a
team that's like checked out and going making their their
Is it the NFL players also go to Cabo or

(40:17):
do they go somewhere else after just an NBA thing?
But I don't think that they've that that this has
quite happened. That maybe it never will. But I don't
sense that they're in that position quite despite.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
The approach that the head coach has taken thus far.
Is it fair to say you will be shocked if
Max Brozemer is not the starting quarterback on Sunday?

Speaker 3 (40:37):
Yeah, And I mean it's a and he it is
a medical thing, and like the only way the coach
steps in is if he gets medically cleared and then
the coach still says at that.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
Point, no, I don't want to play you.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
And if you were to get medically cleared on Saturday
and he hasn't gone through a full week of makes it. Yeah,
it just it's it's hard to unless we get there tomorrow,
you know, because Wednesday is like, so do the first
day practicae of practic this and and by the end
of the day, because you have to go through a
day of practice before you're done with it, you know,
with concussion protocol. And so if they unless at the

(41:09):
end of the day tomorrow they're able to say he's
cleared concussion protocol, it's hard to imagine that that that
becomes a real thing totally.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Are you a big planes, trains and omobiles? Guy? Are
you bored with No? I was glad, thank you.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
I was a little nervous where you were going to
go with your best Thanksgiving movie, but I was glad
that that's where you went.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Where did you think I didn't know going to try
to be goofy?

Speaker 3 (41:33):
Well, I didn't know if something Home alone a Thanksgiving
or is that a Christmas movie?

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Christmas? Ok, Yeah, that's definitely Christmas movie. Yeah, I love
that movie.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
And the funny thing is that it came out in
the eighties, right, So I when I was I was
a kid in the eighties, and I watched it purely
as a slapstick movie, like no, no, I'm sorry, Yeah,
I'm sorry, and so I and so I like all
the funny parts of It's not a pillow and yeah,
how would they know which way we're going? And like,
I still use that line, and I'm so appointed that

(42:00):
rooms of of millennials and gen z's don't even.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Know what that means.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
But only as I've gotten older, And I did watch
the doc that John Candy Dock on Amazon good.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Here's and and have now kind of leaned into the
sentimental parts of as well.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
But I'm a huge fan of that movie. Yeah, it's
uh for for like I'll say again, for pure expression.
The expression on Candy's face at the end. Two two expressions.
One when Steve Martin figures it out and he goes
back to the train stop, right and he sees him
it's the and it's the look on Candy's face there,

(42:37):
and then obviously the look that smile that he kind
of breaks out in when he's greeting.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
And then Steve Martin and then and I know Blakebore
mentioned this part of it, has never seen it, but
he mentioned the one part of like, oh yeah, he's
standing there in his pajamas and he's just getting absolutely
obliterated by Steve Martin for being a terrible human being
and he just managed and and like part of the
doc is like I think there is some real life
implications there that he was feeling or summoning to have

(43:03):
this look of like just how hurt he was to
be lambassad on such a personal level and just being
a terrible human being. And like, but the expression that
he brought up in that moment where and standing there
in his pajamas when Steve Martin is just haranguing him,
I'm just yep, an expression that I'll always think of

(43:24):
when I think of John Candy.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
But I heard Martin was magnificent in this doc talking
about the end of the movie, working with him in
that film, a number of other things that he was
just really good. Yeah, And I mean he's obviously loved
him as as a best friend. Right, Thanks, Happy Thanksgiving
to you and yours. Thanks for coming in. I do
appreciate the effort, because I do know traffic is a
pain in the butt and you didn't have to come
this direction. So we do what we really do. Appreciate
it and we'll we'll talk next week. Sounds good, thanks man.

(43:49):
Kevin seaffert EESPN dot com. Lovel is going to give
us some bonus time because we're not here Friday. He's
going to join us at five thirty. Top five will
include the Great Wall of Saint Paul.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Time now for the Vikings Report on the Fan, presented
by Miller Lyte. Vikings wide receiver Adam Thielen joins Dan
Burrero next