October 2, 2025 • 38 mins
Dan and Gaardsy review the Top 5 before Dan gets into a discussion about Napheesa Collier's statements this week about WNBA leadership and the fallout from the Cheryl Reeve suspension.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Just in case you missed it, it's the top five
sports talkers of the day. Now it's time for Dan
Barrero's Top five and five brought to you by Gutter
Helmet of Minnesota. Never clean your gutters again. Learn more
at Gutter Helmet.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'll give you two more.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
One of them offered up by an alert listener, Bernard Barrion,
that was well before your time. I thought, oh, yes
it was, and it was a disaster, yeah, because he
didn't he basically half the time he was multitasking, like
getting out of his car, eating, talking to somebody else
(00:39):
while I was on with us.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I remember if he listened at all.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
And the other one remember, and this was we assumed
this was going to be a can't miss her, Fred Smoot,
and I think that also died quickly.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Maybe we're on the love Boat. I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
But the Smoot one, I think we I think we
had originally Smoot was scheduled to be remember that weekly
regular as well.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
It was before my time on the show, but I
remember it. I was working here.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah, yeah, the love Boat anniversary is coming up to
by the way, it's in like four or five days.
I think how many years oh so this is twenty years.
Yeah year was it two thousand and five? Two thousand
and five? Yeah, so the big years that we got
to we probably have to do something with it. Then
we haven't in a while. Should we try Fred's Moon?
Can we afford to? I don't know what we'd have
(01:28):
to be by that.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
That's the problem is like what do you want to?
What are you going to ask them?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Any of them? I mean, it's it's it's going to
be r rated.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I think I want Miwelde more than most because I
think he would be the most surprised to find out
what happened on the boat, given that he was completely perplexed.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
If I remember.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Asking, is that it never it likely would have never
come to light if two or three of the players
or members of the folks who were on the on
the Love boat didn't pee in the bush exactly had
they just gotten out of there, wait, find a restroom, ye,
go to Maynard's yep, and go you know, and and
(02:08):
probably sunsets and why is that a back then? Yeah,
that's true, you're right, Yeah, sure, because I think Allen
almost was that way. Yeah, well whatever, that's what that's
what opened the door, right, Yeah, yeah it did because
the neighbors were wondering what the hell was going on.
Maybe Tysle'll come on to talk about it. I mean,
he already did the cheap show. He might actually, yeah,
he might be. He found out about it. He's the
(02:29):
guy that'd actually be interested in how it came to light,
what that phone call was like, what the next few
days were like. Yes, that's what I'd be interested in,
me to you and me both. But the Vikings have
a ball game to worry about against the Cleveland Browns
on Sunday. This one is in London. Christian Darris saw
another day of rest and load management today at practice.
(02:51):
Michael Jurgens did not participate. He's supposed to be the
backup center, so he's really not gonna be that with
his hamstring injury. Blake Brandell looks like he's going to
be the starting center. Here's a quote that Kevin Seffert
tweeted out about six hours ago.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
First of all seat rights.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Brandell confirmed that while he has had a lot of
practice reps at center, he has never played center in
a game. Here's the quote, never in a game, No,
but I've had a lot of practice reps, thankfully, whether
that's scout team or whatever. It's just one of those
things where I am at some point be a possibility
be so I'm excited. Hey, is you're all along the
offensive line. What's the big deal? Well, probably is a
(03:35):
pretty big deal. You got to identify things allegedly, although
maybe if you have a veteran quarterback it's a little
less of a big deal. But it's not good. It's
it's it's obviously not good. And we're assuming. I'm close
to assuming who would replace a regular right tackle.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I don't even know who it would be. I have
to pull up the All twenty two.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Cleveland's defense is better than Pittsburghsbury reminded, Yes, it is,
I know. And you know what's gonna happen. They're gonna
get a bump from this kid quarterback? Yeah is he
he can at least move.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
You know what I think is gonna happen. Do you
think we're gonna lose again? No?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I think Wwentz is gonna get knocked out of the game.
Your guy's going to be in and take over. Rosemer
Brownstones is going to show up dominate. The team has
already posted like multiple social media videos of him walking
around London with his family.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
You thinks you know something.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Some people are asking, is this a soft launch? Is
this a soft launch for the Brozemer era. Well, he
did a great job, by the way, talking about the
London Eye, I'm just gonna tell you, no question, it
was unbelievable. No one's ever talked about the London eye
like that has been done like that. Well, I somebody
asked me the other day, you know, what are the
odds that he would start the second half of the game.
I said zero, unless Wentz gets hurt. I think that's
(04:48):
the only way he plays, don't you. I don't think
there's any chance, because here's part of the deal. I
think there would be, especially if the line is a disaster.
You don't want to kill the So my belief is
the only way reason Wentz would be pulled from the
lineup would be not because of performance. It would be
(05:10):
he's just battered, and he got pretty battered enough last
week where I wondered even then whether there might be
something to it. Be a hell of a story, no
question about that. The only addition we tray JJ way
until he gets healthy. Yeah, I think he got a
showcase at some point.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, that's probably true. There was an addition to the
Vikings injury for today. What if the Vikings.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
The Vikings had no fewer than four options at quarterback
coming into this season, right, four viable options Darnold, Yep, Jones, Jones, Rogers,
Rogers and JJ. Yeah, what if they picked for this
season at least the worst of the four.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
It's possible.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
It's very possible, which has still always been the goofy
part about trying to win while he learns on the job,
because he does have to learn on the job. You
can't you there's no way to jump start that anyway,
you were saying. The only other addition to the injury
report today is Dallas Turner who was ill.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
She was sick today? What's that all about? Don't know.
He did not participate, had some bad uh fish and
chips or something. I don't even know who I can say,
because like.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I guess I could say, Justin's school was limited in
practice today, but not very nice.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I know it's not because it's not his fault, But
who do I say?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well, you know Salsbury made that point too, that that
and the Vikings are not along with this there's just
depth is a problem for a lot of teams, especially
if you're if you're if you're decimated along the offensive line,
you're in trouble.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I also heard Guestling earlier in the week with Nordo.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Guestling's you know back in the States, by the way,
so wherever he joins you from tomorrow. He only did
the Dublin games. I didn't realize, so he'll be with
you tomorrow. But he talked about the pro game is
starting to blame the college game for some of their
offensive line problems. Really because so few colleges run pro
style offenses. The linemen that they're getting, they do have
(07:06):
to be developed at a different speed and at in
a different game, and they're not asked to do a
bunch of things. It might be six five, three twenty
five and they can run a four to two forty.
They don't know what the hell they're doing because they're
doing all these up tempo.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
A lot of.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Quarterbacks very very much on working from the gun.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Everybody says, how much harder it is to be under center,
how much more value you know, how much more versatile
your your offense can be when you do it, but
that a lot of quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
It's it's just easy.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
You're sitting back there, whatever it is, seven yards, five yards,
and you're just surveying everything. You never have to turn
your back to the defense any of it. So if
you get a couple of injuries, you've been scraping it
together to find five legitimate pro offensive linemen, and it's
harder to find even guys that are on other teams
that can come in and just roll it like they
did with Cam Robinson last year. Have we ever had
(07:56):
in the modern era like the merger? Since the merger,
has there ever been a game that ended zero zero
after the overtime? I'm sure there had to have been.
The Vikings and Raiders were closed a few years ago.
If you remember were they it was like three to three.
Forever it was like three zero. I'm just telling you
this could be Yeah, I know, this could be that
(08:17):
kind of grimy game. The touchdown in field goal sponsors
might not get maid off this week, that's true. Detroit
got it done the Tigers six to three. They double
up Cleveland, they win that series two games to one.
Your Cubs have taken a two zero lead in Wrigley.
It looks like a great day at Wrigley. By the way,
it does look like an ice dog's got to be
living its best life today. Yeah, places packed. That's a
(08:38):
foul ball, fouw ball. They're up to nothing on Diego,
but they had they had basis loaded, nobody out and
only scored twice, which could come back to haunt them.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Got to get those through.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Well, turned three six three double play to get the
Padres out of trouble. But they are up to nothing
in the fourth Yankee Stadium tonight, Game three of that series.
The Red stock and Yankees, two teams that don't much
like each other, that's for sure. The latest chapter in
the rival You remember a Roldest Chapman. I do one
of the Cubs win the series sixteen twenty sixteen. Yeah,
(09:10):
so nine years ago, he's their closer right as they
win the thing.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yes, he's in the ninth inning of Game one.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Now with Cleveland, I should say, with Boston, first three
runners get on base in a one run game, basis loaded,
or may have been a two run game, basis loaded,
nobody out, he gets out of it.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
It's the Chapman experience.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
The oldest Chapman fifteen and he still throws the ball
one hundred and ten miles per hour.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I know. And he was, like you said, he was
World Series guy nine years.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Ago with the Cubs, and that even wasn't that wasn't
even his first stop.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
It's already been nine years. That's crazy. It is nuts.
That's crazy, all right.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
You want to put a grand in somebody's hands, I'd
love to help somebody with some bonus bucks. It is
our national cast contest and the final keyword of the
evening tonight is credit. Go to kfa n dot com
and enter the keyword.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I've got some.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Questions regarding the ongoing discussion the NAFISA Collier Savagery on
the w NBA commissioner, who has been a very, very
obviously easy target.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
She's made herself that over the years.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
But I do have some questions about a number of
things offered up that I think, for me at least,
are being too universally praised without at least some pushback
or perhaps a little bit of.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Shall we call it nuance. That's next.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Kate Almus has checked in that time of the year again,
the state of hockey is a buzz about the upcoming season,
and here we go jg ignoring our favorite.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Sport wants again in the top five. Buzz must be
a day that ends in wah a buzz? Is that
what we are? A buzz?
Speaker 3 (11:00):
And is that the real k fallness? Or is that
somebody doing the bit? Hang on, let me pull up
the text line. Do you know that that phone number?
You recognize it?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I got to hit the refreshment on the old text
line as much that is him?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah, okay, fair enough, funny that he missed. We talked
plenty of hockey.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I hope you got got a new set of staples
or staplerk. I'm still what he was staplaning, probably media
notes or something. Who knows? Good question? I have no
idea good question? Good?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Do you know the the you know what the the
first nickname assigned to me in my earliest years at
cafe in What that nickname was?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I don't think I do squeaky? Oh yes, yes, I
did know.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
There was the first that the person I think responsible
for calling me that just texted, Yeah, I'm gonna let
him remain anonymous, but yeah, that is true. That was
my very first Once upon a time I was accused
of having.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
A squeaky voice.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I don't think it's a week as it used to be,
but I think it's still got a little bit of
squeaking it.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I can get up there occasionally. Don't think you get
there as high. Russell makes a good point.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
What's that if we could fix the audio in his studio,
we would do more hockey talk. Yeah, that's that's from Russell. Yeah,
I think Russell's right. I don't disagree with that. Somebody's
bitter that we don't have He said, well, you guess what.
You had a regular Vikings guest. You had a regular
Wolves guest. By the way, I think Mike Conley's coming
in the studio. You remind me next Monday. On Monday, Yeah,
to start it all over again. We don't have a
(12:30):
regular wild guest, which is true. We have a lot
of regulars wild related we do. We have had right
wild regulars, including who is the goalie that we had
for years?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Wasn't that for more than one year? It was for
a while. Yeah, we had Dubnik. Yeah, I guess we
could talk about it. It was gonna be.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
It was gonna be Paris until I screwed up the
Paris Pontiac deal. That was the shortest regular guest stint
we ever had. That was shorter than Bernard Berry. And
I think it was that is the shortest, that's true. Yeah,
one apparent one appearance, that was it. I don't think
he ever appeared again. No, I don't remember him. And
I'm pretty sure Shooter never appeared on the show, and
he definitely didn't appear later when we were taking shots
(13:11):
at him.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
And no, he didn't appear as a player. Heard from
his dad though, didn't we Probably we did.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
We didn't hear from him as a player or when
he was the assistant GM as you called him.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, we didn't hear from him then either. That might
have been the time where it kind of went south.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
It's very very possible I think we have for not
having a regular wild guest. I don't know how you
do any better than Russo and lou Nanny. You don't
twice a week.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
You don't.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
That's that's my view on it. That's the comeback to it.
So you know, a humble opinion. Well I don't. I
don't disagree with that. And technically Fallness is a regular
because he texts in every day, so we talk about
whatever he wants us to talk about for at least
two minutes. Mission accomplished. Yeah, interesting, he gets us going.
All right, it's still the talk of the w NBA
(13:56):
and the WNB. The NBWA finals start. Is it tomorrow night?
Think it's Friday night. I don't even know where it starts. Vegas.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Well, Vegas was the two seed, so it has to
be Vegas. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
The NAFISA Klier evisceration, disembowlment of the w NBA commissioners,
no question. She was as vivid and as surgical as
one can imagine.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Probably unprecedented.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I don't remember in any sport, quite frankly, any professional
sport a star going as far as ANFISA callier went.
But I want to I do have some questions about
it that are to continue to kind of stick in
my craw and bug me a little bit, because there's
been I think the acclaim has been a little bit two.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Total.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I think there's some questions that we should be asking
here when it comes to the question of leadership and
message sending the last couple of years, et cetera. I
this program has not been a particularly a particularly huge
fan of Kathy Engelbert for a number of reasons. Although
(15:08):
I will say even folks who are critical of her
say that in terms of from the business side of
it is the fact is she's done exactly what she
was told to do, which is get really fat rich contracts. Yeah,
TV contracts, and so that may be the issue is
she's made more for the business side of it than
necessarily the understanding the basketball side of it, and perhaps
(15:31):
even the relationships between players and UH and and owner
of management, or you could say the commissioner's office, et cetera.
All right, Nafisa, I'm just going to quote this is
from the transcript and then and then ask you a
few questions here as as we go that struck me
as to this point having been unanswered. First of all,
(15:54):
I'd like to congratulate, she said the Mercury for advancing
to the finals. I want to be clear, this conversation
is now about winning or losing. It's about something much bigger.
I ain't buying it. I asked Johnny this question yesterday.
He ain't buying it either. That doesn't make her unique.
And by the way, there can be other things worthy
of discussion, but for Cheryl Reeve and for her best player,
(16:19):
I'm not buying that any different than any other app
player or coach. That what's I think, more than anything
stuck in your craw right now, is you blew a series.
You blew your best chance to get your fifth title
at least currently, and you did it in ways we've
(16:42):
already kind of laid down. I don't need to go
down that road. I think it's too easy to say no, no, no,
I'm above all of that. You're not above all that.
Your coach wasn't sure as hell wasn't above all that
with the way things went down in Game number three.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
She then goes on to talk about the officials.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Whether the league cares about the health of the players
is one thing, but also not care about the product
we be on the floor is truly self sabotage.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Year after year.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
The only thing that remains consistent is the lack of
accountability from our leaders, and she goes on in depth
on that particular issue. The question seems to be, again,
you're losing control of the games. That would seem to
indicate some difficulty with the physicality of the game being
out of control.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
And I'll just ask this question. It's kind of a
rhetorical one. I think.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Last year when Caitlin Clark was occasionally getting maimed. Where
was this frustration? What other players, instead of just making
it about the refts, were interested in going down this
particular road, you know we got instead. I mean, we
(18:05):
can find all the quotes, especially as it pertains to Clark.
She got to deal with it. It's a big leagues man, right,
a passage, right, a passage, These things it takes. There
are several steps involved here. Got to grow up.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
You got to learn exactly that this is a This
isn't a big boy league. This is a big girl league.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
And so what I guess what I'm saying is I
don't think she's wrong, but when she focuses so little
on other players, I don't trust it as being particularly consistent,
because that's what we heard over and over again, different league,
different level. And stop, we're not going to coddle just
(18:51):
because Caitlyn Clark is everybody's darling. We're not going to
coddle her. Very different message than what we're hearing from
Nafisa Klier. Now she goes on and this is this
to me was especially rich and it's getting He's gotten
all the attention in the world, not surprisingly and unrivaled.
This past February, she said, I sat across from Kathy
(19:13):
and asked how she planned to address the officiating issues
in our league. Her response was, well, only the losers
complain about the refs. I also asked how she planned
to fix the fact that players like Caitlin Angel and Page,
who are clearly driving massive revenue for the league, are
making so little for their first four years, and her
response was, Caitlyn should be grateful she makes sixty million
dollars off the court, because without the platform the WNBA
(19:36):
gives her, she wouldn't make anything. Now, two things there. One,
I get it, it's a sexy quote. It hits hard,
and it may be exactly what the commissioner said. But
I'm gonna ask you something. If a commissioner or a
(19:56):
reporter offered up the exis Zach quotes allegedly exact quotes
from a private conversation that in this case has to
do with a negotiations which are always going to be
bare knuckled, where people are going to say a lot
of things. I dare say there's probably a couple of
things the players side said that if we knew about them,
we'd go whoa are you serious? How do we feel
(20:17):
we're okay with it because we don't like the commissioner
that private conversations get revealed. Beyond that same question, now
we're worried about the fairness of what Caitlin Clark may
and some of the other young players makes.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
What did we hear a year ago. It's not about
Kaylen Clark.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
It doesn't matter that she's a popular She shouldn't be
making the money. The people who built this league, the
veteran players, should be making more money. So all I'm
asking from no FISA is a little little honesty about
looking within. Because we talked about this all last season.
(21:00):
We said there's a lack of leadership at the top.
But my opinion at least was what the leadership at
the top needs to have with players is a come
to Jesus meeting and say stop being jealous of this
movement and this situation because it's identified as Caitlin Clark mania.
Stop basically sabotaging yourselves. You can think whatever you think
(21:27):
about when she's overrated or she hadn't really done much yet,
and all that's true, but if you want to cross
over the way you say you want to cross over.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Then where are you? Why is this such a difficult deal? Now?
What are we hearing? Now? We're hearing from from her
and I'm not saying Collier.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I'm not sure. And THEFISA, ever was one of the
people who is that critical of Kaylin. I think she's
actually in fact, I think does she have the same representation.
I can't remember, but she I don't remember her actually
going to fire down that road. But the fact is
a lot of players, as you know this, they coaches.
I won't name them all, won't name all the coaches.
(22:03):
That's that was their mantra last year. They bristled a
lot of ex players bristled at the whole Clark thing.
So now it's when it's convenient we get to use
Caitlin Clark about what she wasn't getting. I'd accept it
more fully if the player in this case, NEFISA or
other players who are are jumping on her bandwagon, had
(22:26):
been more consistent with it, because I don't think they
were all that consistent with it at all. I mentioned
the off the record part, you know, the other thing
that that I'm stunned that people haven't pushed back on
it a little bit more. See if I can find
(22:49):
the other page. I thought I had the whole thing here,
but I can't find it. Now.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
It's not not page.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
There's an enre that was it is unrival rivaled related,
but I cannot I've lost my other page. And it's
when she's talking about the diametric opposites when it comes
to leadership that she's familiar with, and she describes she's
our you know, obviously very critical of the WNBA leadership.
(23:19):
I think there's probably reason to be in a number
of cases. But she uses as the opposite the unrivaled
league that she is an investor in and has done
very well to build it up, very very quickly. Her
husband runs exactly Now, she might be right, but I'm
just going to tell you if anybody else brings up
(23:42):
their significant other, no one is accepting it as easier
going to say, well that's kind of convenient. I mean,
you're you might be a little bit biased there too,
there might be a little bit of an objectivity issue.
And even on the on the on the question of
apparently she said that when anybody got in our the
(24:03):
unrival league gets hurt, he's the first one to make
a phone call. And I still haven't received a phone
call from the Commissioner's office from the commissioner at least
since the bad injury that that that she suffered.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Seriously unrivaled league.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
I don't know how many how many players are in it,
how many teams are in it.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
It's a little different than the WNBA, one hundred percent.
Even the WNBA is not as big as the NBA.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
But come on, man, and you can't leave out the
other little nugget. Maybe part of the reason you didn't
get the call that you say you earned or deserved
is the uncomfortable nature of the relationship right now between
the front the the the Commissioner's office, and the Minnesota
Lynx because the behavior of your own head coach ended
(24:55):
up resulting in an historic suspension that's never been done before.
That's the context of it. So for me, again, I'm
not here to shoot the messenger. I'm not here to
say that she doesn't have some legitimate points. I'm just
here to say there's some inconsistencies to this, and I
don't like the way the shift has taken place from
(25:17):
a year ago to when a lot of these same
subjects came up, and in terms of if NAFISA is
really trying to make several points to me about, you know,
holding individuals accountable in positions of authority, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
It's too easy to leave out the players, in my opinion, It's.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Too easy to say, well, we're going to make it
all about the commissioner's office when almost every point she
brought up was viewed in a one hundred and eighty
degree different context a year ago. Is that not fair well,
certainly on the physicality because Clark was basically beaten up
everything last year, and there was a lot of right
(25:57):
of passage talk for sure, and on the salaries too,
like those of those were all collectively bargained. Right, that's
and that's going to be part of this next thing.
I think we all understood that there's probably going to
be a jump, right. Rookie salaries are not very much.
We all knew that going in. We knew that they
were low enough that people actually thought, well, she might
stay in college because she'll make more money, which by
(26:18):
the way, was ludicrous because all of that money was
coming whether she was in Iowa City or she was
moving on to the w NBA. Right, But yeah, the
Clark thing is is the most interesting part, and I
don't remember in the FISA really having much of an
opinion on that in general, Like she's typically not agree
wading into those waters, I agree, which I think, by
(26:38):
the way, to her credit. It is to her credit.
But if the game is we're gonna hold, we're going
to confront. I'm saying I'm not blaming her because I
don't think she has been inconsistent, But those are issues
that have been talked about where people aren't afraid to
talk about them for over a year, right and and
and that's that's part of what uggs me. If you
(27:01):
leave all that out, I'm not buying exactly what you're selling,
because that's a component of this thing. And on the
money part, to your point, there's a rookie wage scale
in the NBA too. Now it's obviously on a much
higher level, but this is part of the to be
honest with you, among the things I thought where Clark
(27:25):
was being unfairly treated, salary wasn't at the top of
my list, even though it didn't make any sense given
the way she was driving ratings. But there was a
part of me saying, well, what are you gonna do?
Got you can't have a rookie wage scale except for
when Caitlin Clark comes right exactly di asterisk, You can't.
You may have to, I mean, that's what why she
(27:48):
represents something that was so different.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
But what do you do?
Speaker 3 (27:51):
The money has to be there to come from someplace,
and in fact, again from a TV contract standpoint. League
is blossoming, but it's done pretty damn well.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Now, is there.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Still more room that that should be coming the player's way. Probably,
I wouldn't doubt that that'd be the case, But I
just I don't know. I just think that there are
financial realities here that still have to do with the
league that's headed in the right direction, but still does
not even though valuations have gone up, is still not
making a ton of money in the conventional sense as
(28:27):
far as we know, correct?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Right? Did anything else hit you from? No? Now? Also?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Real quick, I'm sorry, Reeve. Did you hear Reeve after
in during that same session, because it was eye opening
Reeve to me, she didn't go far enough. Basically, she
didn't do enough of a mea culpa about her behavior.
But beyond that, did you hear what she said about
the physicality? She basically said she basically acknowledged that we're
(28:52):
not We know, we were aware that we're really not
made for those kinds of to beat those kinds of teams.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
That's part of the reason.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
And we made the trade for who was the injured player,
Carrington Carrington exactly.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
That's the reason.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
So I'm thinking, for all the people who are who
are bombed, just bombarding me, referees screwed them.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
They didn't have a chance. They got mugged.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Cheryl Reeve, in maybe a moment, maybe I misread the quote,
but I thought, in a in a rare moment of
candor on this issue, basically said we're not really made
that way. And my argument then is, well, while you're
fighting the battle for changing the officiating approach, you still
have to live in it. So isn't part of your
(29:37):
job to go about putting together a roster that is
going to be better equipped to do it?
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Now?
Speaker 3 (29:42):
I'm sure in their mind they thought they were fine
because they had the best record in basketball by six games, right,
but nevertheless dominant. I thought it was an interesting admission,
but go ahead. The Reeve comment that got my attention.
You mentioned that she didn't really go very far into
Maya culpa was when she kept reiter eating her situation
(30:02):
was an unprecedented situation, which basically to me was martyrdom, Like, well,
they've never done that before, you know what I mean? Like,
I don't think anyone's dropped multiple F bombs and called
it mal malpractice and they had to do something like you,
you were forcing their hand to do something. You bet
that they weren't going to suspend you because it is unprecedented.
(30:22):
Why is it unprecedented? Because I don't remember it ever
happening like that before, do you. I guess I could
go back and watch other press conference answered your own question. Yeah,
but I didn't like that because that's like, well, they
did something they'd never done before, and I couldn't coach
Game four. I couldn't coach Game four, and then at
the fan fest they had at the target Field train
station basically, so well, I guess I could also put
(30:43):
out a we have a suggestion box, what about a
collection box?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
From my fines.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
It's like, okay, yeah, you weren't able to coach in
game four, and I get it, you're trying to make
your point and everything, but you you weren't there for
a pivotal Game four, maybe it wouldn't have made a difference.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
That's not the point.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
So that bugged me because that's not because I said
it on the day. If to me it all goes
and I get it, there's and my overarching thing. If
Kathy Engelbert said what she said about Kaitlin Clark and
then the FISA Collier said, then that is like game
set match, like she has no clue.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
She's not equipped to run the league.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
If that's your stance on Clark, that she should be
feel lucky to have our play, Yes, which what we
we If you're a called we talked about last year
that Clark never came up, was not even named by
the commissioner press conference, right, So she she probably doesn't
doesn't get it. What's different though, was then it was, well,
(31:39):
her leadership is a problem, but part of the talk
she needs to have is with her own players. Right. So,
but if that's her stance, then yes, she's done. She
told she she clearly shouldn't be running the league. But
I said it the day after the game. If they're
if they're worried more about what happened in game four,
for games I guess games three, Game three as opposed
(32:01):
to what they contributed in Game two, which was just
a ridiculous way to lose a game, which and they've
been flirting with that, you know all year, you playing
with their food stuff that we use on the Timberwolves.
If they're more worried about that than their own culpability
on Game two, then then they're in trouble. Then they're
just not going to get it. And I don't think
(32:21):
they I don't think they have it. I think they
focused completely on what happened in Game three, and there's
not been enough accountability for Game two when that's when
they lost control of everything for no reason but their
own carelessness with the basketball. And here we are, and
I'll still say I do not think it was a foul.
I know it ends up being a bad injury, but
(32:43):
the regarding Reeve, yeah, it's unprecedented, it's but it's it's
it's as you say, what choice do they have you
when you even if you can't stand leadership, Okay, you
left leadership even if it's a poorly run organization with
no choice, or at the very least you made it
(33:05):
easy for them to go as far as they did.
Because I don't think there has been any behavior by
a coach at the professional level that matches the way
Cheryl Reeve conducted herself during that game, on her way
to the locker room and in the media scrum afterwards. Yeah,
(33:26):
it's all if the if the fine and suspension was unprecedented,
it's because the behavior was absolutely unprecedented as well. No
rap presented by American pressure commercial grade pressure washers since
nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
It's the bumper to bumper show rap Thursday Night football tonight.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Niners at Rams tomorrow will have picks Ben Gesling and
Lavelle as well. There's a decent number of Texters who
kind of I think missed the point that that happens
from time to time, people saying that at a majority
of that that the FISA believe speaks for the majority
(34:05):
of the WNB players.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I don't doubt that a minute.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
I've never, in anything I've said, suggested otherwise. What I
have suggested is that the arguments that are being made
now in this case to hammer the Commissioner's office have
never been, had never previously been used to hammer players
fellow players the way I think I certainly did feel
(34:30):
being consistent should have been a year ago, there weren't
There wasn't anybody championing Caitlin Clark's cause when it came
to money or physicality. And I just find that amusing
that now we're looking at a completely different way. That's
not my saying that they that the majority of players
don't agree. I will add, and you, I think, will
disagree with me on this.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Probably.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
I think it has become too easy to literally blame
everything on the boogeyman, and in this case, the boogyman
is the comission, all the foul calls, all the circumstances,
all the difficulties.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
I don't buy it.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
I think the more you do that, the more you
leave anything else out, any possibility of gray areas.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
And I just don't. That's just not where I reside.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
It's the easiest thing to do because she is the boogeyman,
she's been her own worst enemy. She deserves a lot
of the criticism. But for me, then it makes it
too easy to that's the crutch we lost. We blew
a twenty point lead, not our fault, commissioner's fault. They
blew it on the traveling call we didn't get a
year ago. That's what somebody else texted too that people
are still frustrated by that.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I'm sure they are.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
That had nothing to do with blowing the twenty point lead,
had nothing to do with as much as the fista.
Kllier is a great player. She scored five points in
the second half of Game two. She scored four points
in the second half of Game three, including zero in
the fourth quarter. That doesn't mean I want to cut her,
but I'm saying those things are basketball related. The other
(36:00):
team played better, maybe the other team figured out how
to play her. If you want to go excuse you can.
She got brutalized. It wasn't her fault. She was getting
mugged on every play, So you can go that route.
But if you leave all the basketball stuff out that
have has nothing to do with whether the league is
too cheap or whether players are getting enough money, or
(36:21):
whatever the case may be, and you just centered on
the basketball, then you can't deny that the entity responsible
for the Links underachieving in the playoffs this year is
the Minnesota Links and their head coach. It happens, doesn't
mean they're done forever. But the more you want to
(36:41):
go down those other roads, the more I get you.
The more I understand is if you divert, you don't
have to live with the likelihood that, man, we had it.
I mean, we're in great shape at home and we
blew it. But I don't want to talk about that
because that's internal. That means I have to accept the
possibility that at the moment of truth, team did not
keep its composure and did not handle itself all that well. Again,
(37:05):
on what she's saying, there's a lot of truth I
think to what she's saying. I'm just saying for me,
it's a little incomplete, and it completely subverts all the
stuff we heard last year, not by her, make that clear,
by other people, but other leadership people, other good players
in this league about Caitlyn's got to figure it out.
We're not here to Kyle Caitlyn. Yeah, they're gonna play
(37:27):
her hard, they're gonna guard her hard. Maybe they are
gonna follow follow her a little bit. But that's what
the best players in this league learned. Seemed that the
context was different. Now it's about the officiating. It wasn't
so much about the officiating.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Then.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Also want to thank our outstanding array of guests today,
which includes Sean Salisbury, and a very good mix of
inbox writers today as well, another great mix.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
It was a very good mix.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
They love the Pac Custler letters. Are you going to
text him just to see if he's okay. I'm going
to text him to see if he's okay. Maybe you
do that, Yeah, you do a welfare I just want
to be sure. And maybe he's like, maybe it's costing
too much money to use his text.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Line over there.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
I don't know, Freaky mcfreak said, freak. He said, enough,
I'm the only one working right now. Can you can
he's up a little bit. That's also possible for sure.
I think I'll watch a little Niners rams.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
How about you? Maybe?
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yeah, right, I'll see in and out is the words
might be the approach that we football is typically not electric. No,
that's uh said. I thought Monday night was awful. The
double header games are Tarta tomorrow picks. As I said,
Guestling and Lavelle hope to join us at three.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
You don't show us what you can do, a lot
of things that are easily crutchable.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
What the hell's going on out here?
Just in case you missed it, it's the top five
sports talkers of the day. Now it's time for Dan
Barrero's Top five and five brought to you by Gutter
Helmet of Minnesota. Never clean your gutters again. Learn more
at Gutter Helmet.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'll give you two more.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
One of them offered up by an alert listener, Bernard Barrion,
that was well before your time. I thought, oh, yes
it was, and it was a disaster, yeah, because he
didn't he basically half the time he was multitasking, like
getting out of his car, eating, talking to somebody else
(00:39):
while I was on with us.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I remember if he listened at all.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
And the other one remember, and this was we assumed
this was going to be a can't miss her, Fred Smoot,
and I think that also died quickly.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Maybe we're on the love Boat. I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
But the Smoot one, I think we I think we
had originally Smoot was scheduled to be remember that weekly
regular as well.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
It was before my time on the show, but I
remember it. I was working here.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah, yeah, the love Boat anniversary is coming up to
by the way, it's in like four or five days.
I think how many years oh so this is twenty years.
Yeah year was it two thousand and five? Two thousand
and five? Yeah, so the big years that we got
to we probably have to do something with it. Then
we haven't in a while. Should we try Fred's Moon?
Can we afford to? I don't know what we'd have
(01:28):
to be by that.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
That's the problem is like what do you want to?
What are you going to ask them?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Any of them? I mean, it's it's it's going to
be r rated.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I think I want Miwelde more than most because I
think he would be the most surprised to find out
what happened on the boat, given that he was completely perplexed.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
If I remember.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Asking, is that it never it likely would have never
come to light if two or three of the players
or members of the folks who were on the on
the Love boat didn't pee in the bush exactly had
they just gotten out of there, wait, find a restroom, ye,
go to Maynard's yep, and go you know, and and
(02:08):
probably sunsets and why is that a back then? Yeah,
that's true, you're right, Yeah, sure, because I think Allen
almost was that way. Yeah, well whatever, that's what that's
what opened the door, right, Yeah, yeah it did because
the neighbors were wondering what the hell was going on.
Maybe Tysle'll come on to talk about it. I mean,
he already did the cheap show. He might actually, yeah,
he might be. He found out about it. He's the
(02:29):
guy that'd actually be interested in how it came to light,
what that phone call was like, what the next few
days were like. Yes, that's what I'd be interested in,
me to you and me both. But the Vikings have
a ball game to worry about against the Cleveland Browns
on Sunday. This one is in London. Christian Darris saw
another day of rest and load management today at practice.
(02:51):
Michael Jurgens did not participate. He's supposed to be the
backup center, so he's really not gonna be that with
his hamstring injury. Blake Brandell looks like he's going to
be the starting center. Here's a quote that Kevin Seffert
tweeted out about six hours ago.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
First of all seat rights.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Brandell confirmed that while he has had a lot of
practice reps at center, he has never played center in
a game. Here's the quote, never in a game, No,
but I've had a lot of practice reps, thankfully, whether
that's scout team or whatever. It's just one of those
things where I am at some point be a possibility
be so I'm excited. Hey, is you're all along the
offensive line. What's the big deal? Well, probably is a
(03:35):
pretty big deal. You got to identify things allegedly, although
maybe if you have a veteran quarterback it's a little
less of a big deal. But it's not good. It's
it's it's obviously not good. And we're assuming. I'm close
to assuming who would replace a regular right tackle.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I don't even know who it would be. I have
to pull up the All twenty two.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Cleveland's defense is better than Pittsburghsbury reminded, Yes, it is,
I know. And you know what's gonna happen. They're gonna
get a bump from this kid quarterback? Yeah is he
he can at least move.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
You know what I think is gonna happen. Do you
think we're gonna lose again? No?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I think Wwentz is gonna get knocked out of the game.
Your guy's going to be in and take over. Rosemer
Brownstones is going to show up dominate. The team has
already posted like multiple social media videos of him walking
around London with his family.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
You thinks you know something.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Some people are asking, is this a soft launch? Is
this a soft launch for the Brozemer era. Well, he
did a great job, by the way, talking about the
London Eye, I'm just gonna tell you, no question, it
was unbelievable. No one's ever talked about the London eye
like that has been done like that. Well, I somebody
asked me the other day, you know, what are the
odds that he would start the second half of the game.
I said zero, unless Wentz gets hurt. I think that's
(04:48):
the only way he plays, don't you. I don't think
there's any chance, because here's part of the deal. I
think there would be, especially if the line is a disaster.
You don't want to kill the So my belief is
the only way reason Wentz would be pulled from the
lineup would be not because of performance. It would be
(05:10):
he's just battered, and he got pretty battered enough last
week where I wondered even then whether there might be
something to it. Be a hell of a story, no
question about that. The only addition we tray JJ way
until he gets healthy. Yeah, I think he got a
showcase at some point.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, that's probably true. There was an addition to the
Vikings injury for today. What if the Vikings.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
The Vikings had no fewer than four options at quarterback
coming into this season, right, four viable options Darnold, Yep, Jones, Jones, Rogers,
Rogers and JJ. Yeah, what if they picked for this
season at least the worst of the four.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
It's possible.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
It's very possible, which has still always been the goofy
part about trying to win while he learns on the job,
because he does have to learn on the job. You
can't you there's no way to jump start that anyway,
you were saying. The only other addition to the injury
report today is Dallas Turner who was ill.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
She was sick today? What's that all about? Don't know.
He did not participate, had some bad uh fish and
chips or something. I don't even know who I can say,
because like.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I guess I could say, Justin's school was limited in
practice today, but not very nice.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I know it's not because it's not his fault, But
who do I say?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well, you know Salsbury made that point too, that that
and the Vikings are not along with this there's just
depth is a problem for a lot of teams, especially
if you're if you're if you're decimated along the offensive line,
you're in trouble.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I also heard Guestling earlier in the week with Nordo.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Guestling's you know back in the States, by the way,
so wherever he joins you from tomorrow. He only did
the Dublin games. I didn't realize, so he'll be with
you tomorrow. But he talked about the pro game is
starting to blame the college game for some of their
offensive line problems. Really because so few colleges run pro
style offenses. The linemen that they're getting, they do have
(07:06):
to be developed at a different speed and at in
a different game, and they're not asked to do a
bunch of things. It might be six five, three twenty
five and they can run a four to two forty.
They don't know what the hell they're doing because they're
doing all these up tempo.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
A lot of.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Quarterbacks very very much on working from the gun.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Everybody says, how much harder it is to be under center,
how much more value you know, how much more versatile
your your offense can be when you do it, but
that a lot of quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
It's it's just easy.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
You're sitting back there, whatever it is, seven yards, five yards,
and you're just surveying everything. You never have to turn
your back to the defense any of it. So if
you get a couple of injuries, you've been scraping it
together to find five legitimate pro offensive linemen, and it's
harder to find even guys that are on other teams
that can come in and just roll it like they
did with Cam Robinson last year. Have we ever had
(07:56):
in the modern era like the merger? Since the merger,
has there ever been a game that ended zero zero
after the overtime? I'm sure there had to have been.
The Vikings and Raiders were closed a few years ago.
If you remember were they it was like three to three.
Forever it was like three zero. I'm just telling you
this could be Yeah, I know, this could be that
(08:17):
kind of grimy game. The touchdown in field goal sponsors
might not get maid off this week, that's true. Detroit
got it done the Tigers six to three. They double
up Cleveland, they win that series two games to one.
Your Cubs have taken a two zero lead in Wrigley.
It looks like a great day at Wrigley. By the way,
it does look like an ice dog's got to be
living its best life today. Yeah, places packed. That's a
(08:38):
foul ball, fouw ball. They're up to nothing on Diego,
but they had they had basis loaded, nobody out and
only scored twice, which could come back to haunt them.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Got to get those through.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Well, turned three six three double play to get the
Padres out of trouble. But they are up to nothing
in the fourth Yankee Stadium tonight, Game three of that series.
The Red stock and Yankees, two teams that don't much
like each other, that's for sure. The latest chapter in
the rival You remember a Roldest Chapman. I do one
of the Cubs win the series sixteen twenty sixteen. Yeah,
(09:10):
so nine years ago, he's their closer right as they
win the thing.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yes, he's in the ninth inning of Game one.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Now with Cleveland, I should say, with Boston, first three
runners get on base in a one run game, basis loaded,
or may have been a two run game, basis loaded,
nobody out, he gets out of it.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
It's the Chapman experience.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
The oldest Chapman fifteen and he still throws the ball
one hundred and ten miles per hour.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I know. And he was, like you said, he was
World Series guy nine years.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Ago with the Cubs, and that even wasn't that wasn't
even his first stop.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
It's already been nine years. That's crazy. It is nuts.
That's crazy, all right.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
You want to put a grand in somebody's hands, I'd
love to help somebody with some bonus bucks. It is
our national cast contest and the final keyword of the
evening tonight is credit. Go to kfa n dot com
and enter the keyword.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I've got some.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Questions regarding the ongoing discussion the NAFISA Collier Savagery on
the w NBA commissioner, who has been a very, very
obviously easy target.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
She's made herself that over the years.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
But I do have some questions about a number of
things offered up that I think, for me at least,
are being too universally praised without at least some pushback
or perhaps a little bit of.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Shall we call it nuance. That's next.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Kate Almus has checked in that time of the year again,
the state of hockey is a buzz about the upcoming season,
and here we go jg ignoring our favorite.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Sport wants again in the top five. Buzz must be
a day that ends in wah a buzz? Is that
what we are? A buzz?
Speaker 3 (11:00):
And is that the real k fallness? Or is that
somebody doing the bit? Hang on, let me pull up
the text line. Do you know that that phone number?
You recognize it?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I got to hit the refreshment on the old text
line as much that is him?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah, okay, fair enough, funny that he missed. We talked
plenty of hockey.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I hope you got got a new set of staples
or staplerk. I'm still what he was staplaning, probably media
notes or something. Who knows? Good question? I have no
idea good question? Good?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Do you know the the you know what the the
first nickname assigned to me in my earliest years at
cafe in What that nickname was?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I don't think I do squeaky? Oh yes, yes, I
did know.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
There was the first that the person I think responsible
for calling me that just texted, Yeah, I'm gonna let
him remain anonymous, but yeah, that is true. That was
my very first Once upon a time I was accused
of having.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
A squeaky voice.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I don't think it's a week as it used to be,
but I think it's still got a little bit of
squeaking it.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I can get up there occasionally. Don't think you get
there as high. Russell makes a good point.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
What's that if we could fix the audio in his studio,
we would do more hockey talk. Yeah, that's that's from Russell. Yeah,
I think Russell's right. I don't disagree with that. Somebody's
bitter that we don't have He said, well, you guess what.
You had a regular Vikings guest. You had a regular
Wolves guest. By the way, I think Mike Conley's coming
in the studio. You remind me next Monday. On Monday, Yeah,
to start it all over again. We don't have a
(12:30):
regular wild guest, which is true. We have a lot
of regulars wild related we do. We have had right
wild regulars, including who is the goalie that we had
for years?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Wasn't that for more than one year? It was for
a while. Yeah, we had Dubnik. Yeah, I guess we
could talk about it. It was gonna be.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
It was gonna be Paris until I screwed up the
Paris Pontiac deal. That was the shortest regular guest stint
we ever had. That was shorter than Bernard Berry. And
I think it was that is the shortest, that's true. Yeah,
one apparent one appearance, that was it. I don't think
he ever appeared again. No, I don't remember him. And
I'm pretty sure Shooter never appeared on the show, and
he definitely didn't appear later when we were taking shots
(13:11):
at him.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
And no, he didn't appear as a player. Heard from
his dad though, didn't we Probably we did.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
We didn't hear from him as a player or when
he was the assistant GM as you called him.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, we didn't hear from him then either. That might
have been the time where it kind of went south.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
It's very very possible I think we have for not
having a regular wild guest. I don't know how you
do any better than Russo and lou Nanny. You don't
twice a week.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
You don't.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
That's that's my view on it. That's the comeback to it.
So you know, a humble opinion. Well I don't. I
don't disagree with that. And technically Fallness is a regular
because he texts in every day, so we talk about
whatever he wants us to talk about for at least
two minutes. Mission accomplished. Yeah, interesting, he gets us going.
All right, it's still the talk of the w NBA
(13:56):
and the WNB. The NBWA finals start. Is it tomorrow night?
Think it's Friday night. I don't even know where it starts. Vegas.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Well, Vegas was the two seed, so it has to
be Vegas. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
The NAFISA Klier evisceration, disembowlment of the w NBA commissioners,
no question. She was as vivid and as surgical as
one can imagine.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Probably unprecedented.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I don't remember in any sport, quite frankly, any professional
sport a star going as far as ANFISA callier went.
But I want to I do have some questions about
it that are to continue to kind of stick in
my craw and bug me a little bit, because there's
been I think the acclaim has been a little bit two.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Total.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I think there's some questions that we should be asking
here when it comes to the question of leadership and
message sending the last couple of years, et cetera. I
this program has not been a particularly a particularly huge
fan of Kathy Engelbert for a number of reasons. Although
(15:08):
I will say even folks who are critical of her
say that in terms of from the business side of
it is the fact is she's done exactly what she
was told to do, which is get really fat rich contracts. Yeah,
TV contracts, and so that may be the issue is
she's made more for the business side of it than
necessarily the understanding the basketball side of it, and perhaps
(15:31):
even the relationships between players and UH and and owner
of management, or you could say the commissioner's office, et cetera.
All right, Nafisa, I'm just going to quote this is
from the transcript and then and then ask you a
few questions here as as we go that struck me
as to this point having been unanswered. First of all,
(15:54):
I'd like to congratulate, she said the Mercury for advancing
to the finals. I want to be clear, this conversation
is now about winning or losing. It's about something much bigger.
I ain't buying it. I asked Johnny this question yesterday.
He ain't buying it either. That doesn't make her unique.
And by the way, there can be other things worthy
of discussion, but for Cheryl Reeve and for her best player,
(16:19):
I'm not buying that any different than any other app
player or coach. That what's I think, more than anything
stuck in your craw right now, is you blew a series.
You blew your best chance to get your fifth title
at least currently, and you did it in ways we've
(16:42):
already kind of laid down. I don't need to go
down that road. I think it's too easy to say no, no, no,
I'm above all of that. You're not above all that.
Your coach wasn't sure as hell wasn't above all that
with the way things went down in Game number three.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
She then goes on to talk about the officials.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Whether the league cares about the health of the players
is one thing, but also not care about the product
we be on the floor is truly self sabotage.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Year after year.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
The only thing that remains consistent is the lack of
accountability from our leaders, and she goes on in depth
on that particular issue. The question seems to be, again,
you're losing control of the games. That would seem to
indicate some difficulty with the physicality of the game being
out of control.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
And I'll just ask this question. It's kind of a
rhetorical one. I think.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Last year when Caitlin Clark was occasionally getting maimed. Where
was this frustration? What other players, instead of just making
it about the refts, were interested in going down this
particular road, you know we got instead. I mean, we
(18:05):
can find all the quotes, especially as it pertains to Clark.
She got to deal with it. It's a big leagues man, right,
a passage, right, a passage, These things it takes. There
are several steps involved here. Got to grow up.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
You got to learn exactly that this is a This
isn't a big boy league. This is a big girl league.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
And so what I guess what I'm saying is I
don't think she's wrong, but when she focuses so little
on other players, I don't trust it as being particularly consistent,
because that's what we heard over and over again, different league,
different level. And stop, we're not going to coddle just
(18:51):
because Caitlyn Clark is everybody's darling. We're not going to
coddle her. Very different message than what we're hearing from
Nafisa Klier. Now she goes on and this is this
to me was especially rich and it's getting He's gotten
all the attention in the world, not surprisingly and unrivaled.
This past February, she said, I sat across from Kathy
(19:13):
and asked how she planned to address the officiating issues
in our league. Her response was, well, only the losers
complain about the refs. I also asked how she planned
to fix the fact that players like Caitlin Angel and Page,
who are clearly driving massive revenue for the league, are
making so little for their first four years, and her
response was, Caitlyn should be grateful she makes sixty million
dollars off the court, because without the platform the WNBA
(19:36):
gives her, she wouldn't make anything. Now, two things there. One,
I get it, it's a sexy quote. It hits hard,
and it may be exactly what the commissioner said. But
I'm gonna ask you something. If a commissioner or a
(19:56):
reporter offered up the exis Zach quotes allegedly exact quotes
from a private conversation that in this case has to
do with a negotiations which are always going to be
bare knuckled, where people are going to say a lot
of things. I dare say there's probably a couple of
things the players side said that if we knew about them,
we'd go whoa are you serious? How do we feel
(20:17):
we're okay with it because we don't like the commissioner
that private conversations get revealed. Beyond that same question, now
we're worried about the fairness of what Caitlin Clark may
and some of the other young players makes.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
What did we hear a year ago. It's not about
Kaylen Clark.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
It doesn't matter that she's a popular She shouldn't be
making the money. The people who built this league, the
veteran players, should be making more money. So all I'm
asking from no FISA is a little little honesty about
looking within. Because we talked about this all last season.
(21:00):
We said there's a lack of leadership at the top.
But my opinion at least was what the leadership at
the top needs to have with players is a come
to Jesus meeting and say stop being jealous of this
movement and this situation because it's identified as Caitlin Clark mania.
Stop basically sabotaging yourselves. You can think whatever you think
(21:27):
about when she's overrated or she hadn't really done much yet,
and all that's true, but if you want to cross
over the way you say you want to cross over.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Then where are you? Why is this such a difficult deal? Now?
What are we hearing? Now? We're hearing from from her
and I'm not saying Collier.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I'm not sure. And THEFISA, ever was one of the
people who is that critical of Kaylin. I think she's
actually in fact, I think does she have the same representation.
I can't remember, but she I don't remember her actually
going to fire down that road. But the fact is
a lot of players, as you know this, they coaches.
I won't name them all, won't name all the coaches.
(22:03):
That's that was their mantra last year. They bristled a
lot of ex players bristled at the whole Clark thing.
So now it's when it's convenient we get to use
Caitlin Clark about what she wasn't getting. I'd accept it
more fully if the player in this case, NEFISA or
other players who are are jumping on her bandwagon, had
(22:26):
been more consistent with it, because I don't think they
were all that consistent with it at all. I mentioned
the off the record part, you know, the other thing
that that I'm stunned that people haven't pushed back on
it a little bit more. See if I can find
(22:49):
the other page. I thought I had the whole thing here,
but I can't find it. Now.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
It's not not page.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
There's an enre that was it is unrival rivaled related,
but I cannot I've lost my other page. And it's
when she's talking about the diametric opposites when it comes
to leadership that she's familiar with, and she describes she's
our you know, obviously very critical of the WNBA leadership.
(23:19):
I think there's probably reason to be in a number
of cases. But she uses as the opposite the unrivaled
league that she is an investor in and has done
very well to build it up, very very quickly. Her
husband runs exactly Now, she might be right, but I'm
just going to tell you if anybody else brings up
(23:42):
their significant other, no one is accepting it as easier
going to say, well that's kind of convenient. I mean,
you're you might be a little bit biased there too,
there might be a little bit of an objectivity issue.
And even on the on the on the question of
apparently she said that when anybody got in our the
(24:03):
unrival league gets hurt, he's the first one to make
a phone call. And I still haven't received a phone
call from the Commissioner's office from the commissioner at least
since the bad injury that that that she suffered.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Seriously unrivaled league.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
I don't know how many how many players are in it,
how many teams are in it.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
It's a little different than the WNBA, one hundred percent.
Even the WNBA is not as big as the NBA.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
But come on, man, and you can't leave out the
other little nugget. Maybe part of the reason you didn't
get the call that you say you earned or deserved
is the uncomfortable nature of the relationship right now between
the front the the the Commissioner's office, and the Minnesota
Lynx because the behavior of your own head coach ended
(24:55):
up resulting in an historic suspension that's never been done before.
That's the context of it. So for me, again, I'm
not here to shoot the messenger. I'm not here to
say that she doesn't have some legitimate points. I'm just
here to say there's some inconsistencies to this, and I
don't like the way the shift has taken place from
(25:17):
a year ago to when a lot of these same
subjects came up, and in terms of if NAFISA is
really trying to make several points to me about, you know,
holding individuals accountable in positions of authority, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
It's too easy to leave out the players, in my opinion, It's.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Too easy to say, well, we're going to make it
all about the commissioner's office when almost every point she
brought up was viewed in a one hundred and eighty
degree different context a year ago. Is that not fair well,
certainly on the physicality because Clark was basically beaten up
everything last year, and there was a lot of right
(25:57):
of passage talk for sure, and on the salaries too,
like those of those were all collectively bargained. Right, that's
and that's going to be part of this next thing.
I think we all understood that there's probably going to
be a jump, right. Rookie salaries are not very much.
We all knew that going in. We knew that they
were low enough that people actually thought, well, she might
stay in college because she'll make more money, which by
(26:18):
the way, was ludicrous because all of that money was
coming whether she was in Iowa City or she was
moving on to the w NBA. Right, But yeah, the
Clark thing is is the most interesting part, and I
don't remember in the FISA really having much of an
opinion on that in general, Like she's typically not agree
wading into those waters, I agree, which I think, by
(26:38):
the way, to her credit. It is to her credit.
But if the game is we're gonna hold, we're going
to confront. I'm saying I'm not blaming her because I
don't think she has been inconsistent, But those are issues
that have been talked about where people aren't afraid to
talk about them for over a year, right and and
and that's that's part of what uggs me. If you
(27:01):
leave all that out, I'm not buying exactly what you're selling,
because that's a component of this thing. And on the
money part, to your point, there's a rookie wage scale
in the NBA too. Now it's obviously on a much
higher level, but this is part of the to be
honest with you, among the things I thought where Clark
(27:25):
was being unfairly treated, salary wasn't at the top of
my list, even though it didn't make any sense given
the way she was driving ratings. But there was a
part of me saying, well, what are you gonna do?
Got you can't have a rookie wage scale except for
when Caitlin Clark comes right exactly di asterisk, You can't.
You may have to, I mean, that's what why she
(27:48):
represents something that was so different.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
But what do you do?
Speaker 3 (27:51):
The money has to be there to come from someplace,
and in fact, again from a TV contract standpoint. League
is blossoming, but it's done pretty damn well.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Now, is there.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Still more room that that should be coming the player's way. Probably,
I wouldn't doubt that that'd be the case, But I
just I don't know. I just think that there are
financial realities here that still have to do with the
league that's headed in the right direction, but still does
not even though valuations have gone up, is still not
making a ton of money in the conventional sense as
(28:27):
far as we know, correct?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Right? Did anything else hit you from? No? Now? Also?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Real quick, I'm sorry, Reeve. Did you hear Reeve after
in during that same session, because it was eye opening
Reeve to me, she didn't go far enough. Basically, she
didn't do enough of a mea culpa about her behavior.
But beyond that, did you hear what she said about
the physicality? She basically said she basically acknowledged that we're
(28:52):
not We know, we were aware that we're really not
made for those kinds of to beat those kinds of teams.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
That's part of the reason.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
And we made the trade for who was the injured player,
Carrington Carrington exactly.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
That's the reason.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
So I'm thinking, for all the people who are who
are bombed, just bombarding me, referees screwed them.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
They didn't have a chance. They got mugged.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Cheryl Reeve, in maybe a moment, maybe I misread the quote,
but I thought, in a in a rare moment of
candor on this issue, basically said we're not really made
that way. And my argument then is, well, while you're
fighting the battle for changing the officiating approach, you still
have to live in it. So isn't part of your
(29:37):
job to go about putting together a roster that is
going to be better equipped to do it?
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Now?
Speaker 3 (29:42):
I'm sure in their mind they thought they were fine
because they had the best record in basketball by six games, right,
but nevertheless dominant. I thought it was an interesting admission,
but go ahead. The Reeve comment that got my attention.
You mentioned that she didn't really go very far into
Maya culpa was when she kept reiter eating her situation
(30:02):
was an unprecedented situation, which basically to me was martyrdom, Like, well,
they've never done that before, you know what I mean? Like,
I don't think anyone's dropped multiple F bombs and called
it mal malpractice and they had to do something like you,
you were forcing their hand to do something. You bet
that they weren't going to suspend you because it is unprecedented.
(30:22):
Why is it unprecedented? Because I don't remember it ever
happening like that before, do you. I guess I could
go back and watch other press conference answered your own question. Yeah,
but I didn't like that because that's like, well, they
did something they'd never done before, and I couldn't coach
Game four. I couldn't coach Game four, and then at
the fan fest they had at the target Field train
station basically, so well, I guess I could also put
(30:43):
out a we have a suggestion box, what about a
collection box?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
From my fines.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
It's like, okay, yeah, you weren't able to coach in
game four, and I get it, you're trying to make
your point and everything, but you you weren't there for
a pivotal Game four, maybe it wouldn't have made a difference.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
That's not the point.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
So that bugged me because that's not because I said
it on the day. If to me it all goes
and I get it, there's and my overarching thing. If
Kathy Engelbert said what she said about Kaitlin Clark and
then the FISA Collier said, then that is like game
set match, like she has no clue.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
She's not equipped to run the league.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
If that's your stance on Clark, that she should be
feel lucky to have our play, Yes, which what we
we If you're a called we talked about last year
that Clark never came up, was not even named by
the commissioner press conference, right, So she she probably doesn't
doesn't get it. What's different though, was then it was, well,
(31:39):
her leadership is a problem, but part of the talk
she needs to have is with her own players. Right. So,
but if that's her stance, then yes, she's done. She
told she she clearly shouldn't be running the league. But
I said it the day after the game. If they're
if they're worried more about what happened in game four,
for games I guess games three, Game three as opposed
(32:01):
to what they contributed in Game two, which was just
a ridiculous way to lose a game, which and they've
been flirting with that, you know all year, you playing
with their food stuff that we use on the Timberwolves.
If they're more worried about that than their own culpability
on Game two, then then they're in trouble. Then they're
just not going to get it. And I don't think
(32:21):
they I don't think they have it. I think they
focused completely on what happened in Game three, and there's
not been enough accountability for Game two when that's when
they lost control of everything for no reason but their
own carelessness with the basketball. And here we are, and
I'll still say I do not think it was a foul.
I know it ends up being a bad injury, but
(32:43):
the regarding Reeve, yeah, it's unprecedented, it's but it's it's
it's as you say, what choice do they have you
when you even if you can't stand leadership, Okay, you
left leadership even if it's a poorly run organization with
no choice, or at the very least you made it
(33:05):
easy for them to go as far as they did.
Because I don't think there has been any behavior by
a coach at the professional level that matches the way
Cheryl Reeve conducted herself during that game, on her way
to the locker room and in the media scrum afterwards. Yeah,
(33:26):
it's all if the if the fine and suspension was unprecedented,
it's because the behavior was absolutely unprecedented as well. No
rap presented by American pressure commercial grade pressure washers since
nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
It's the bumper to bumper show rap Thursday Night football tonight.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Niners at Rams tomorrow will have picks Ben Gesling and
Lavelle as well. There's a decent number of Texters who
kind of I think missed the point that that happens
from time to time, people saying that at a majority
of that that the FISA believe speaks for the majority
(34:05):
of the WNB players.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I don't doubt that a minute.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
I've never, in anything I've said, suggested otherwise. What I
have suggested is that the arguments that are being made
now in this case to hammer the Commissioner's office have
never been, had never previously been used to hammer players
fellow players the way I think I certainly did feel
(34:30):
being consistent should have been a year ago, there weren't
There wasn't anybody championing Caitlin Clark's cause when it came
to money or physicality. And I just find that amusing
that now we're looking at a completely different way. That's
not my saying that they that the majority of players
don't agree. I will add, and you, I think, will
disagree with me on this.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Probably.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
I think it has become too easy to literally blame
everything on the boogeyman, and in this case, the boogyman
is the comission, all the foul calls, all the circumstances,
all the difficulties.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
I don't buy it.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
I think the more you do that, the more you
leave anything else out, any possibility of gray areas.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
And I just don't. That's just not where I reside.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
It's the easiest thing to do because she is the boogeyman,
she's been her own worst enemy. She deserves a lot
of the criticism. But for me, then it makes it
too easy to that's the crutch we lost. We blew
a twenty point lead, not our fault, commissioner's fault. They
blew it on the traveling call we didn't get a
year ago. That's what somebody else texted too that people
are still frustrated by that.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I'm sure they are.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
That had nothing to do with blowing the twenty point lead,
had nothing to do with as much as the fista.
Kllier is a great player. She scored five points in
the second half of Game two. She scored four points
in the second half of Game three, including zero in
the fourth quarter. That doesn't mean I want to cut her,
but I'm saying those things are basketball related. The other
(36:00):
team played better, maybe the other team figured out how
to play her. If you want to go excuse you can.
She got brutalized. It wasn't her fault. She was getting
mugged on every play, So you can go that route.
But if you leave all the basketball stuff out that
have has nothing to do with whether the league is
too cheap or whether players are getting enough money, or
(36:21):
whatever the case may be, and you just centered on
the basketball, then you can't deny that the entity responsible
for the Links underachieving in the playoffs this year is
the Minnesota Links and their head coach. It happens, doesn't
mean they're done forever. But the more you want to
(36:41):
go down those other roads, the more I get you.
The more I understand is if you divert, you don't
have to live with the likelihood that, man, we had it.
I mean, we're in great shape at home and we
blew it. But I don't want to talk about that
because that's internal. That means I have to accept the
possibility that at the moment of truth, team did not
keep its composure and did not handle itself all that well. Again,
(37:05):
on what she's saying, there's a lot of truth I
think to what she's saying. I'm just saying for me,
it's a little incomplete, and it completely subverts all the
stuff we heard last year, not by her, make that clear,
by other people, but other leadership people, other good players
in this league about Caitlyn's got to figure it out.
We're not here to Kyle Caitlyn. Yeah, they're gonna play
(37:27):
her hard, they're gonna guard her hard. Maybe they are
gonna follow follow her a little bit. But that's what
the best players in this league learned. Seemed that the
context was different. Now it's about the officiating. It wasn't
so much about the officiating.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Then.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Also want to thank our outstanding array of guests today,
which includes Sean Salisbury, and a very good mix of
inbox writers today as well, another great mix.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
It was a very good mix.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
They love the Pac Custler letters. Are you going to
text him just to see if he's okay. I'm going
to text him to see if he's okay. Maybe you
do that, Yeah, you do a welfare I just want
to be sure. And maybe he's like, maybe it's costing
too much money to use his text.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Line over there.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
I don't know, Freaky mcfreak said, freak. He said, enough,
I'm the only one working right now. Can you can
he's up a little bit. That's also possible for sure.
I think I'll watch a little Niners rams.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
How about you? Maybe?
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yeah, right, I'll see in and out is the words
might be the approach that we football is typically not electric. No,
that's uh said. I thought Monday night was awful. The
double header games are Tarta tomorrow picks. As I said,
Guestling and Lavelle hope to join us at three.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
You don't show us what you can do, a lot
of things that are easily crutchable.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
What the hell's going on out here?
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Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.