November 10, 2025 • 33 mins
Jonny Athletic makes his weekly appearance on the show with his thoughts on the Vikings loss including some troubling things he thought he saw from Justin Jefferson. Jonny also gives his opinion on the Ja Morant trade speculation we've seen in the last week.
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
It's time Johnny Johnny Johnny headache, I didn't be talking.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
About right now.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
RBC Wealth Management helps bring us Johnny Athletic to you.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Were you in Sacramento?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
No, you couldn't have been in Sacramento last night because
you were at the UH at the People Stadium downtown Minneapolis,
weren't you.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
That is correct.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I didn't have the private jet to get me UH
to sack right after fortunate least, so we watched it
from home.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
That's a matter of the time, all right.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
So something moved you in the JJ body language, and
it's created a lot of polarizing thought here because regarding
his response on the interceptions, there's some people were saying, well,
he knew on one of them that the player was down,
(01:21):
and ultimately he was going to the play was going
to be brought back there, and that there's too much
hyperventilation on it. You stand by your position, because it's
certainly appeared, based on what I read of your piece,
to disturb you greatly.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I do stand by it, Dan, I mean yet, and
I did point out in the piece about the first
interception that he did know that he hit the guy down,
and so there wasn't as much of a reason to
run after him. But the second interception, there's no excuse
at all, and he literally walked toward the defender, Marlon
(01:58):
Humphrey as he was heading up the field. And it
wasn't just that, but it was the way that he
was running routes. It was, you know, kind of not
holding onto the ball like he usually does. And this
all stems dan from Jefferson's brilliance for the first five
and a half years of his career, and how much
(02:19):
of that is based on his energy, his infectious attitude,
his constant positivity, and as I said in the piece,
there are actually some good reasons for him to be frustrated,
but we also have never seen him lay with that lifelessness.
(02:40):
I don't think, I mean it was glaring because you're
just not used to seeing it. And so there were
certainly many other reasons they lost the game, the penalties,
McCarthy's erratic throat, accuracy and all those things. But I
just was taken aback by the lack of energy that
we saw from Justin Jefferson because we are just so
(03:03):
used to seeing so much more of it.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
You know, it's fairly predictable.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I'm not necessarily at all surprised, despite the warnings that
I tried to lay out last August and even into September.
In fact, I think you and I talked about this
at the time, and the new game that's being played
by Vikings apologists and by the mcbulbos is the obvious. Well,
I'm gonna you know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna
(03:30):
do some research. I'm gonna check to see. I'm going
to compare what JJ McCarthy did in his first four
starts to every quarterback, every young quarterback in the history
to football, and what they did in their first four starts.
And of course, conveniently, they often leave out a couple
of things, not the least of which is what was
the relative condition of the team that the new young
(03:53):
quarterback inherited. They conveniently leave that out, that many of
those quarterbacks were were joining teams that only got them
because they were among the worst teams in football. But
I digress beyond that. We said, there's going, in my opinion,
and I stand by this an inherent unfairness to the
(04:15):
way JJ is going to be evaluated immediately, but that
the Vikings themselves set this up and you know. I mean,
if if you make the decision they made when they
had other quarterback options that they could have considered, they
could have worked through, and say we're going with him,
(04:37):
and we're still going to make all these other moves
because we think that's going to give him the best
chance to succeed immediately, and yeah, we intend to be
a team going for the playoffs immediately.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Then that's the way I think the team needs to
be graded.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Ultimately, JJ is going to have obviously plenty of time
to prove whether he can be the long term ance
or not. But this was set up by the Vikings
to where I believe it was absolutely fair degrade on
what if you want to classify it as an unfair
curve on the basis of the infrastructure around him, the
team that he was inheriting, compared to many of these
(05:15):
other situations going starting with Caleb Williams, Michael Pennix, a
number of others of those as well.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
I just.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
We still should be allowed to evaluate in real time
the way he looks. That's very different than saying cut him.
It's very different from saying give up on him. But
you can if it makes you people feel better to
play this game go ahead, But that has nothing to
do with the reality that the Vikings themselves set up.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Breck Dan and I'll say this yesterday, there's nothing that
was surprising to me about that performance from JJ McCarthy
because just given the context of he is making his
fourth start, he is still trying to figure this out.
(06:07):
This is what you signed up for when you decided
to put a young quarterback out there on a team
with playoffs aspirations. And what we have talked about the
whole time is there's two things that really stood out
about the Vikings plan and their beliefs that, hey, we
can be a team that does go into the playoffs,
(06:30):
that does have success in the playoffs with this quarterback
because of the well coached infrastructure, because of the guys
we are going to sign with the extra money that
we would have given Sam Darnold or someone else, and
that is what is going to allow us to expedite
the growth curve for JJ McCarthy and get into a
(06:52):
position where we're winning at a high level fairly quickly.
And what happened yesterday was you got a performance that
you should expect from a young quarterback. Some really nice
plays sometimes where he's breaking the pocket, where he's making
throws down the field really accurate, and some plays that
are like whoa, this is not nowhere close to where
it needed to be. This is erratic, he's making the
(07:13):
wrong decision, he's missing guys that are open, those types
of things. But the safety net was always supposed to
be we're going to be very well coached, very well schemed.
We're not going to beat ourselves, and we're going to
have Ryan Kelly, Will Fries, Javon Hargrave, Jonathan Allen, all
these guys that you know, Isaiah Rodgers that we're going
(07:34):
to sign that are going to make such a big
difference around JJ McCarthy that this is going to be really,
really good. And what we saw yesterday was a ton
of penalties pre snap all of those mistakes that were happening.
We saw jaj Justin Jefferson be a little bit lethargic.
For whatever reason. Hargrave and Allen have not really been
(07:55):
living up to the deals that they signed. Rogers had
a really good one game and that's it. You know,
Ryan Kelly's been injured, has been okay, But like all
of the things that we're supposed to be rock solid
around him. Have been hits and misses so far this season,
and that's kind of where they are why they are
where they are right now.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
In the old fashioned quarterback ratings, okay, not the new QBR,
but the old fashioned quarterback ratings, JJ McCarthy ranks dead
last in the National Football League through four games.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
He's forty fourth.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Now, I'll I'll say, even by the standards you laid out, well,
young quarterback going to take some time whatever, that's hideous
that that's to me, given the infrastructure, that's worse than
it should be, even for a young quarterback who's trying
to figure it out. He's literally in last place behind
(08:53):
Jake Browning.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
He is forty fourth in the league. You want to
go to the new new fangled QBR, I can't even
find he would be listed, I think just ahead of
cam Ward and behind Dylan Gabriel who is thirty second.
His QBR is in the twenties.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
So again we're keeping score, right, I mean, we're still
have to keep score, and because, believe me, if his
quarterback rating numbers were through the roof are surprisingly good,
we would be hearing about it, right.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
We would be hearing hey, look at this. This is unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So in a sense, what the mcbobos have set up
is he's teflon.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
He can't be ripped.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
If he does well, we have to praise him, which
many of us did as recently as as as a
week ago for some very nice stretches. But if he's bad,
now look at look at it. Well, remember what John
Elway did in his first couple of games, et cetera.
So's it's fine if it makes you feel better, but
it doesn't change the fact that they keep score at
(09:56):
an astro football league, and they keep stats.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
There is anything in the stats that says, well, let's.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Not even keep the stats QBR and an old fashioned
quarterback rating of first year quarterbacks or quarterbacks who are
playing in their first season, even though this is his
the second year of his career.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
That's just not that's just not realistic. That's not the
way it works.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
So we're going to watch, and we're going to see,
and I'll add I'll go one step further, you know,
and I know the number one reason they had eight
false starts. It's the quarterback's cadence that there's there's let's
just again be clear about this. There may have been
individual ones that had something to do with something else,
but there's a disconnect in terms of what they're asking
(10:36):
him to do or how they're asking him to do it,
or how he is trying to execute whatever they're asking
him to do. Is it another example of the head
coach as quarterback whisper trying to be too cute and
expecting too much from him. Hey, let's see if we
can draw people off sides when he can't even do
the basics right now. I don't know the answer to that,
but let's let's be clear. That's why his cadence is
(11:00):
throwing off people who ordinarily do not fall start as
often as they did.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, Brian O'Neil three times. I mean, that's just like
that never happens. The other thing that this brings up, Dan,
and I will preface this by saying, I remain a
believer that JJ McCarthy can be a good quarterback in
this league. I'm not hitting the alarm bellany yet, but yeah,
but I remember and I was playing as day, Dan
(11:25):
sitting in a conference room at the old Winter Park
headquarters with Rick Spielman and a bunch of our scribes
sitting around the table and Rix Spielman reciting Eli manning
early stacks to us as justification to that we were
panicking or that we were jumping the gun on Christian Ponder,
(11:45):
and you know, hey, I've just seen all this happen,
and look at what Eli did early, look at what
a few of these other young guys did early, and
Ponders even better than that, and so he's going to
be just fine. So history like that is very select
and you can find if you dig back far enough
and deep enough, you can find any numbers to support
whatever you believe, whether McCarthy is going to be totally
(12:07):
fine or going to he's a disaster. And so that's
a game that is very dangerous to play, especially when
you're saying, well, el way did this, that was one
of the very, very best of all time. Let's just
slow your role on on some of those as well.
So yeah, you know, McCarthy does have to be better.
You can't complete forty six percent of his passes be
(12:30):
airmail and Jefferson a few times like that, and but
again like that's these are the things that they signed
up for, and making the decision to do things the
way that they did let's do.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Some bonus bucks and then we'll get a little more
Johnny on the other side, Fan.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
And two men and a junk truck want to give
you a shot to win bonus bucks with our National
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Speaker 2 (12:53):
No curamous moments, stand up kicks, offense.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
JJ McCarthy is you have to throw a touchdown in
this building. He's under center, first down, first and ten
from the twenty. Oh my Gara saw and Hawkinson jump.
There's something with this cadence here that's getting them.
Speaker 6 (13:10):
I mean offense Mr nine and seventy one personal fasts
a five guard penalty of first.
Speaker 7 (13:17):
Down, go ahead Freudian slide there by the official No,
he McCarthy tried to check to a different play and
I don't know, you know, sometimes you're allowed that in
the play. Sometimes it's a play it, you know what
I mean, where you can't check it. And they were ready.
The whole entire offensive line was ready for the snap,
and they were a lot of them were moving. So
(13:38):
to me from the from from this angle, it looked
to me like it was a mistake made by McCarthy.
Speaker 8 (13:43):
Join us again for another famous moment in the gas offense.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's a play.
Speaker 8 (14:02):
Fall star by the offense number seventy five, five yard
penalty second down.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
It's gonna be a long year.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I can see that it might even be a long
three or four years. This is from five to one eight. Guy,
he won two games already. He's going to be elite.
How you people.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Can't see it? You're clueless.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
To come from behind factor is more important than putting
up a lot of yardage. Who said anything about yardage?
Qb our stats aren't just about yardage, and so is I.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
This is the beauty of being JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
He gets all the credit for the victories, but apparently
he'll he'll receive no blame whatsoever for the losses. Johnny,
let me ask you about something else. Let me find
the talking point here and see if we can get
to it. This one I classify as why doesn't KOC
(15:18):
like success? J. J.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
McCarthy in his second home regular season start, goes under
center first and ten from his own twenty one Jones
the tail back, and he gets the call. Nice hole
to the right side. He hits the twenty yard line
and Roekwan Smith and another raven or Able Koyer to
bring him down after a gain of six. Two tight
(15:40):
ends off to the right hand off Jones. He goes
that way past the line of scrimmers, gets to the
thirty Scots to the thirty five, No, the forty and
that's where he stopped at the forty one. Aaron Jones
speedy with that seventeen yard run.
Speaker 7 (15:55):
Hey Paul, what a shot in the arm. Come out
of halftime. You hand the football off one time and
get the first down. That's what Aaron Jones has been
given this offense the last couple of weeks. And despite
the shoulder being nicked up, he's out there just beautiful
cutback running.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
He's three of seven on third down.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
This is third and short. Two tight ends, they're balanced
offset I right McCarthy on third and One's gonna pass
from under center. He's gonna go deep.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Jeffer sue him well and.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Marlon Humphrey picked it up, picked it off at the
five yard line.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
The veteran Marlon.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
Humphrey heads up the field lazily to the fifteen. Now
he sprints twenty twenty five and JJ McCarthy has thrown
two interceptions. He's sprinting over to the sideline. Marthy's under center,
straight eye hand off to Jordan Mason. Good block by c. J.
Hamm Mason plows to the right across the forty and
he's finally stopped at.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
The forty five.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
It's a twelve yard run by Jordan.
Speaker 7 (16:54):
Mason, a little bit of a counterpower and that's that's
kind of the cool thing with the running game now,
is with Aaron Jones. You get in one style and
is that right back there you're getting another. And you
know the Ravens their front has not been all that
stout against the run, and we can't we can't just
abandon it.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
You know, it's a can tech thing as it is.
Speaker 7 (17:15):
Well, I think to throw the football in this case,
because the Ravens, after putting Kyle Hamilton in the box
and doing a number of different things trying to get
pressure on the quarterback, they've they've settled in to just
playing some softer underneath zones. You still need to run
the football. They feel an in motion to the left.
Two receivers right, Jefferson and Addison. Now Jordan's in motion
(17:37):
to the left third and three McCarthy back to pass
attempts to throw over the middle, put the balls batted
at the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I think by Kyle Hamilton, Johnny, you know the numbers.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
The Vikings averaged six point seven yards per carry. They
only ran eighteen times. They never ran I don't believe
even once on third or fourth down. Now, I don't
expect him to run on third and nine or there
are actually there are some teams who do run when
it's third and five or third and six or third
(18:10):
and seven. But we're back to helping out the kid
quarterback get on his feet. And I'll say again, there's
no one with a straight face who's going to tell
me that this head coach, with his stubbornness on wanting
to look like the cool quarterback coach, is doing that.
(18:31):
I don't believe that he is. And I thought we
saw it again with not one but two running backs
who are running very effectively. Now I get it, when
you're down fourteen or you're down fifteen, obviously everything kind
of changes at that point. Or But the truth is,
there are a lot of teams that will still insist
on we're still going to run the ball. Some we
(18:52):
may not run at four straight plays, but we're going
to continue to mix that in and that that's just
not anything that he's interested in doing.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, No, I mean, the one caveat I will give
him is that when you do have as many prestat
penalties as they did, it's a lot of first and fifteens,
and and that makes it more difficult. But the kind
of one of the hallmarks of Kevin O'Connell's tenure so
far as head coach, which has been successful. He's winning
(19:23):
games doing things, but he does he runs the ball begrudgingly,
like that's what it is. I mean, we remember his
first season where it was Alexander Madison basically like a
complete dismissal of the running game entirely. And and I
think that if he had a perfect day, they would
(19:44):
run twice and throw it sixty times and win the
game that way. That's just the way that he's wired,
the way that he has built. But you know, it
is going. It is damaging the Vikings champceons of winning,
especially when you look at in the context of a game.
I mean, Aaron Jones looks great right now. He really
(20:07):
has come off of that injury, is moving well. He's explosive.
He is making a difference in the running game when
the ball is in his hands. And I think that
JJ McCarthy is very erratic, and so it is kind
of confusing to me why you would put so much
pressure on McCarthy's shoulders to carry the load offensive when
(20:31):
you don't have to. If it was Alexander Madison it
was two yards in a cloud of dust, I would
understand it. But they are having real success in the
running game when they commit to it, and yet they
just go away from it time and time again.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
So there's a lot of discussion about the third and one.
This is in the first drive the second half. I
think that Guarzi had much of that drive covered the
runs early, because that drive indeed started with a seventeen
yard run by j Owns, then a five yard run
by Jones, then a four yard.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Pass to Addison.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
So it's now third and one at the fifty, and
I ordinarily, if you take the head coach at his word,
I ordinarily would say, I got no problem trying a
pass play on third and one as long as I'm
certain that you are going forward on fourth down. And
(21:26):
by the way, and this is the thing I don't
know that he owned up to you're going to run
the ball on the fourth one, because knowing him, he
was going to pass it on both plays. But I
will add this caveat to your point about the position
that the team is in at this point. The game
is getting shaky, right, the lead has been cut to one,
it's now ten to nine. They have a significant decent
(21:48):
amount of momentum. So as much as after the game
you heard the head coach say what we got to
you know, we got to balance this out. We still
got to let him learn and we got to try
to make some plays.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
I will continue to say, if.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
You want to do your quarterback in that situation a favor,
that's not the time you pick for that play. You
run it again, and I get it. It's it feels
like it's a wasted opportunity the way you like to
run offense. But I think you got to take pay
attention to time and place, and to me, the best
favor you do for your quarterback there is get another
first down and start the whole process over again.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
And that's why I I didn't even like that.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Call, even if I generally say, yeah, if you know
you're gonna have two downs to get the yard go
ahead fling it on one of those. But in that circumstance,
I'm not sure that I even would have done that then.
And I ultimately he doesn't know that the player that
JJ's gonna trip, right, Jefferson's gonna gonna stumble. But to me,
it's a it's another great illustration of where I just
(22:48):
don't trust his desire or enjoyment in just letting somebody
pound the ball for seven yards.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, I think that, you know, when you look at
that play, so much of it was right right. I mean,
you got Jefferson one on one, you all going down
the field, you have that fourth down, And I do
think today Kevin O'Connell did clarify that he at least
he said that he had a run in the chamber
basically down And of course, yeah, of course you're going
(23:20):
to say that. But you know, I'm with you on
that point of reading the game, reading your quarterback, and
reading the defense, all of those things to just say,
not to mention Dan that this has not been a
good short yardage team all season long. So you may
need two cracks at it to get the first down
(23:43):
on third and one and if you're just running it.
And so even if you go for it on fourth
and one, where the defense would presumably load up a
little bit more against the run, that might be hard
to pick up. So I think that at this stage
of JJ McCarthy's career, what you want is to build
(24:04):
successes throughout the game. Just get them feeling comfortable and
confident and keeping things simple. And if that means, well,
we don't want a baby him, sometimes you got you
might have to baby him early on, like and just
not give him too much to chew on and let
him find some success and some rhythm. The first drive
(24:25):
was really good, really impressive, but you still got to
build on that. And he has a a knack so
far for kind of going dormant through the second and
third quarters. And so when you have an opportunity to
extend the drive and when you're running the ball as
well as you are, you know, kind of leaning into
that I think is important just right now. There will
(24:45):
be times, hopefully in the future, where McCarthy has much
more command where everything is hitting on all cylinders, and
then you can get you know, you can get loose
with it and you can let him, let him let
it fly, But just right now, at this age of
his development, I don't know that he's ready for that.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
What is seventy two divided by thirteen.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I'm gonna do it. I got a calculator. I'm ready
because I don't trust my I don't trust myself. I
have that one seventy two divided by thirteen equals five
point five yards of carry. Those are the numbers related
to Jones and Mason, because McCarthy had five carries for
forty eight and a couple of people saying, well, the
numbers not as gaudy as you're making it sound. On
(25:27):
the ground game. By the way, I don't mind including
McCarthy in the ground game. I don't mind using his
legs on even on a on a third and one
or a third and three, because we had a bunch
of downs like that where we never even considered, we
don't even consider running the ball. But that's those are
good numbers for the two running backs, five point five
(25:47):
and again it's I think it's almost criminal that the
two running backs total thirteen carries. Its just you mean,
you look at the way now. I know Baltimore is
built different, but look what they did on They got
ahead in that game, they almost refused to throw the
ball until actually they I thought, did throw the ball
too much late to help give the Vikings that last chance.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
But they just kept pounding is what they did. And
here's another thing.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
If you have third and four or third and three,
you can run, and even if you get two that
it's fourth down.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
You have something to think about.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
But maybe that fourth and one is I think we're
afraid he has no interest in even throwing it on
running the ball on third and four. That's not illegal
in this league. You don't want to do it all
the time, but there are teams who do it actually
quite effectively.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
There is no one who can have a serious conversation
about that football game and say, well, you know, actually
Aaron Jones and Jordan Mason only average five point five,
so it's not that big. You watched that game and
the way that it was going, they were getting whatever
they wanted in the run game, and the way the
(26:58):
juice with which Aaron Jones was playing was palpable. You
could just see it. He was fast, he was explosive,
he was quick, he was ready. And if you want
to limit his pitches, if you're worried a little bit
about his injury. Jordan Mason is going to be fine,
especially in the third and one situations. So you know,
(27:18):
we can have debates about play calling and all those things,
but I really don't have a whole lot of time
for someone who says, well, actually, Aaron Jones and Mason
weren't all that good. It was mostly JJ McCarthy Patty
in that stat That's not what was happening in that game, no.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Question about that. We're very late. Thanks as always for
the time.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Wolves.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
We're going to get to next time we have you on.
I'll throw in one question for a thirty second answer.
There are Wolves fans who want to know if there's
any reason to think that there might be some John
Morant steam in the Minnesota Timberwolves future.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, not right now, Dan. I mean, I do think
that Tim Connelly's really aggressive. So if they are flailing around,
you know, late December, early January, they could revisit it.
They they are monitoring it, as stam Atic reported with
us with the athletic and I do think that they've
had some cursory stuff just thinking about it, but they're
(28:12):
starting to come.
Speaker 7 (28:13):
Around a little bit.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
They got to play a good team, but I don't
think they're ready to pull a trigger like that. And lastly,
a deal with for John Morant with all that money,
with the second aprons and stuff, is just very hard
to pull off if you don't have a ton of picks,
and the Wolves do not. So I wouldn't hold my
breath if I were Wolves fans. But we'll see if
it gets real, if things go off the table, you know,
(28:34):
late in December and they're and they're desperate for something.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Thank you, Johnny.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
We'll chat soon, all right, John Krasinski, Johnny Athletic quick
pause labor later this hour. And a thrifty traveler guy
in the five now Turmous Moments stand up kick offense.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
We've barely seen him since. All right, First down, first
and ten from the forty one flag, all start, Vikings
come in.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
That is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 6 (29:00):
Again for another famous moments, all right, Ben Leaver coming
(29:22):
up in just a few minutes, and thirty traveler guys.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I said in the five Lots of Vikings talking points
yet to comel that we've already offered up.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Several of them.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Like I said, I wish I could trust him more
because ordinarily, like I said, on a third and one,
if you've already decided we're going forward on fourth down,
I have no problem with trying to throw. You know,
it's like, okay, because it's not doesn't have to be
the If it doesn't work, you're not assuming there's gonna
be an I t obviously it's not gonna be the
(29:55):
end of the series. Now you do, I guess run
the risk of a sack where there's suddenly then you're
in a different position.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
But you can't play that way the whole game. I
just and you know, I'd like to.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Believe him when he says I had a run dialed
up for fourth than one if we didn't get the
first down. That's why I felt like we got, you know,
two downs to get this. Let's say, let's let's try something.
This is where you try to give any quarterback a
chance to sort of make a play.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I just don't trust him enough to do that.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Somebody had texted Shanahan and San Francisco developed the seventh
round QB and Brock party by allowing him to manage
the game, including short throws on a running game. O'Connor
last to justice lenses, he does not have Matt Stafford
under center. It's well put, I think, and eventually he
might I'm not kirk Cousins, right, Yeah. In the interim though,
I don't understand why it's that difficult to I mean,
(30:46):
accept four yards here, another first down, because in the end,
you're gonna there's gonna be time for McCarthy to to
prove he can fling. Right, There's always going to be
time for that. But there's no rush on that. So
in the meantime, because what is the head coach told us,
He has said, we're trying to do both.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
We're trying to develop this quarterback, but we want to
win right now.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
Right.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
So to me, the best way you thread that particular
needle is you are willing to go a little bit
even more conservative than you'd otherwise intended. Now, again, when
you're down fifteen, or were we down fourteen, whatever it
was at that point, obviously you're going to have to
start flinging it.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
That's just sort of the nature of the beast.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
But they even ran the ball a couple of times
on one of those drives when they were down fourteen
to kind of get him back.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
That's true. Sure, you're right, I mean it's not illegal.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
What you guys have made the point that Aaron Jones
looked really good yesterday, because he does look really good
at times, and he looks great yesterday. What's always funny
to me is they have and I was thinking of
this yesterday, they have really cool inventive running plays like
they do. Yes, they get him the ball and it's
the one cut thing that Mercers was talking about, and
it just looks effortless.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah, I forget us.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
You heard it from Yeah a couple of times before
the outcome was known, saying don't we can't forget about
the run, Paul. Last week they gave Atis in a carry, yeah, right,
and a huge play on third down and he picked
it up. There's so many different ways to move it.
It is crazy, though, how this has become such a thing. Yes,
the refusal.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Somebody had the numbers, you know, the you know, it's
like seven of twenty passing and like four times they've
run the ball in those situations.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
It's not that dramatic. But I'm not that far off. No,
not that far off. Are you losing your voice? By
the way, I might you got a little bit of
a little raspy. I mean it's you know, it's cold
in the air. Yeah, that's true. It's that time of year.
Load management. Ben Lieber will get.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
His reaction to yesterday's festivities. Maybe he'll help us prepare
for an interesting Monday night encounter involving an NFC North
opponent as well.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
No famous moments up kick offense.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
We've apparently seen him since. All right, first down, first
and tent from the forty one flag. All start vikings come.
That is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 8 (33:00):
Join us again for another famous moment in a guess
offense
It's time Johnny Johnny Johnny headache, I didn't be talking.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
About right now.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
RBC Wealth Management helps bring us Johnny Athletic to you.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Were you in Sacramento?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
No, you couldn't have been in Sacramento last night because
you were at the UH at the People Stadium downtown Minneapolis,
weren't you.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
That is correct.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I didn't have the private jet to get me UH
to sack right after fortunate least, so we watched it
from home.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
That's a matter of the time, all right.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
So something moved you in the JJ body language, and
it's created a lot of polarizing thought here because regarding
his response on the interceptions, there's some people were saying, well,
he knew on one of them that the player was down,
(01:21):
and ultimately he was going to the play was going
to be brought back there, and that there's too much
hyperventilation on it. You stand by your position, because it's
certainly appeared, based on what I read of your piece,
to disturb you greatly.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I do stand by it, Dan, I mean yet, and
I did point out in the piece about the first
interception that he did know that he hit the guy down,
and so there wasn't as much of a reason to
run after him. But the second interception, there's no excuse
at all, and he literally walked toward the defender, Marlon
(01:58):
Humphrey as he was heading up the field. And it
wasn't just that, but it was the way that he
was running routes. It was, you know, kind of not
holding onto the ball like he usually does. And this
all stems dan from Jefferson's brilliance for the first five
and a half years of his career, and how much
(02:19):
of that is based on his energy, his infectious attitude,
his constant positivity, and as I said in the piece,
there are actually some good reasons for him to be frustrated,
but we also have never seen him lay with that lifelessness.
(02:40):
I don't think, I mean it was glaring because you're
just not used to seeing it. And so there were
certainly many other reasons they lost the game, the penalties,
McCarthy's erratic throat, accuracy and all those things. But I
just was taken aback by the lack of energy that
we saw from Justin Jefferson because we are just so
(03:03):
used to seeing so much more of it.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
You know, it's fairly predictable.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I'm not necessarily at all surprised, despite the warnings that
I tried to lay out last August and even into September.
In fact, I think you and I talked about this
at the time, and the new game that's being played
by Vikings apologists and by the mcbulbos is the obvious. Well,
I'm gonna you know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna
(03:30):
do some research. I'm gonna check to see. I'm going
to compare what JJ McCarthy did in his first four
starts to every quarterback, every young quarterback in the history
to football, and what they did in their first four starts.
And of course, conveniently, they often leave out a couple
of things, not the least of which is what was
the relative condition of the team that the new young
(03:53):
quarterback inherited. They conveniently leave that out, that many of
those quarterbacks were were joining teams that only got them
because they were among the worst teams in football. But
I digress beyond that. We said, there's going, in my opinion,
and I stand by this an inherent unfairness to the
(04:15):
way JJ is going to be evaluated immediately, but that
the Vikings themselves set this up and you know. I mean,
if if you make the decision they made when they
had other quarterback options that they could have considered, they
could have worked through, and say we're going with him,
(04:37):
and we're still going to make all these other moves
because we think that's going to give him the best
chance to succeed immediately, and yeah, we intend to be
a team going for the playoffs immediately.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Then that's the way I think the team needs to
be graded.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Ultimately, JJ is going to have obviously plenty of time
to prove whether he can be the long term ance
or not. But this was set up by the Vikings
to where I believe it was absolutely fair degrade on
what if you want to classify it as an unfair
curve on the basis of the infrastructure around him, the
team that he was inheriting, compared to many of these
(05:15):
other situations going starting with Caleb Williams, Michael Pennix, a
number of others of those as well.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
I just.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
We still should be allowed to evaluate in real time
the way he looks. That's very different than saying cut him.
It's very different from saying give up on him. But
you can if it makes you people feel better to
play this game go ahead, But that has nothing to
do with the reality that the Vikings themselves set up.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Breck Dan and I'll say this yesterday, there's nothing that
was surprising to me about that performance from JJ McCarthy
because just given the context of he is making his
fourth start, he is still trying to figure this out.
(06:07):
This is what you signed up for when you decided
to put a young quarterback out there on a team
with playoffs aspirations. And what we have talked about the
whole time is there's two things that really stood out
about the Vikings plan and their beliefs that, hey, we
can be a team that does go into the playoffs,
(06:30):
that does have success in the playoffs with this quarterback
because of the well coached infrastructure, because of the guys
we are going to sign with the extra money that
we would have given Sam Darnold or someone else, and
that is what is going to allow us to expedite
the growth curve for JJ McCarthy and get into a
(06:52):
position where we're winning at a high level fairly quickly.
And what happened yesterday was you got a performance that
you should expect from a young quarterback. Some really nice
plays sometimes where he's breaking the pocket, where he's making
throws down the field really accurate, and some plays that
are like whoa, this is not nowhere close to where
it needed to be. This is erratic, he's making the
(07:13):
wrong decision, he's missing guys that are open, those types
of things. But the safety net was always supposed to
be we're going to be very well coached, very well schemed.
We're not going to beat ourselves, and we're going to
have Ryan Kelly, Will Fries, Javon Hargrave, Jonathan Allen, all
these guys that you know, Isaiah Rodgers that we're going
(07:34):
to sign that are going to make such a big
difference around JJ McCarthy that this is going to be really,
really good. And what we saw yesterday was a ton
of penalties pre snap all of those mistakes that were happening.
We saw jaj Justin Jefferson be a little bit lethargic.
For whatever reason. Hargrave and Allen have not really been
(07:55):
living up to the deals that they signed. Rogers had
a really good one game and that's it. You know,
Ryan Kelly's been injured, has been okay, But like all
of the things that we're supposed to be rock solid
around him. Have been hits and misses so far this season,
and that's kind of where they are why they are
where they are right now.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
In the old fashioned quarterback ratings, okay, not the new QBR,
but the old fashioned quarterback ratings, JJ McCarthy ranks dead
last in the National Football League through four games.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
He's forty fourth.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Now, I'll I'll say, even by the standards you laid out, well,
young quarterback going to take some time whatever, that's hideous
that that's to me, given the infrastructure, that's worse than
it should be, even for a young quarterback who's trying
to figure it out. He's literally in last place behind
(08:53):
Jake Browning.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
He is forty fourth in the league. You want to
go to the new new fangled QBR, I can't even
find he would be listed, I think just ahead of
cam Ward and behind Dylan Gabriel who is thirty second.
His QBR is in the twenties.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
So again we're keeping score, right, I mean, we're still
have to keep score, and because, believe me, if his
quarterback rating numbers were through the roof are surprisingly good,
we would be hearing about it, right.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
We would be hearing hey, look at this. This is unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So in a sense, what the mcbobos have set up
is he's teflon.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
He can't be ripped.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
If he does well, we have to praise him, which
many of us did as recently as as as a
week ago for some very nice stretches. But if he's bad,
now look at look at it. Well, remember what John
Elway did in his first couple of games, et cetera.
So's it's fine if it makes you feel better, but
it doesn't change the fact that they keep score at
(09:56):
an astro football league, and they keep stats.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
There is anything in the stats that says, well, let's.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Not even keep the stats QBR and an old fashioned
quarterback rating of first year quarterbacks or quarterbacks who are
playing in their first season, even though this is his
the second year of his career.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
That's just not that's just not realistic. That's not the
way it works.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
So we're going to watch, and we're going to see,
and I'll add I'll go one step further, you know,
and I know the number one reason they had eight
false starts. It's the quarterback's cadence that there's there's let's
just again be clear about this. There may have been
individual ones that had something to do with something else,
but there's a disconnect in terms of what they're asking
(10:36):
him to do or how they're asking him to do it,
or how he is trying to execute whatever they're asking
him to do. Is it another example of the head
coach as quarterback whisper trying to be too cute and
expecting too much from him. Hey, let's see if we
can draw people off sides when he can't even do
the basics right now. I don't know the answer to that,
but let's let's be clear. That's why his cadence is
(11:00):
throwing off people who ordinarily do not fall start as
often as they did.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, Brian O'Neil three times. I mean, that's just like
that never happens. The other thing that this brings up, Dan,
and I will preface this by saying, I remain a
believer that JJ McCarthy can be a good quarterback in
this league. I'm not hitting the alarm bellany yet, but yeah,
but I remember and I was playing as day, Dan
(11:25):
sitting in a conference room at the old Winter Park
headquarters with Rick Spielman and a bunch of our scribes
sitting around the table and Rix Spielman reciting Eli manning
early stacks to us as justification to that we were
panicking or that we were jumping the gun on Christian Ponder,
(11:45):
and you know, hey, I've just seen all this happen,
and look at what Eli did early, look at what
a few of these other young guys did early, and
Ponders even better than that, and so he's going to
be just fine. So history like that is very select
and you can find if you dig back far enough
and deep enough, you can find any numbers to support
whatever you believe, whether McCarthy is going to be totally
(12:07):
fine or going to he's a disaster. And so that's
a game that is very dangerous to play, especially when
you're saying, well, el way did this, that was one
of the very, very best of all time. Let's just
slow your role on on some of those as well.
So yeah, you know, McCarthy does have to be better.
You can't complete forty six percent of his passes be
(12:30):
airmail and Jefferson a few times like that, and but
again like that's these are the things that they signed
up for, and making the decision to do things the
way that they did let's do.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Some bonus bucks and then we'll get a little more
Johnny on the other side, Fan.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
And two men and a junk truck want to give
you a shot to win bonus bucks with our National
Cash Contest. The keyword is credit. Go to Cafe n
dot com and enter the keyword credit.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
No curamous moments, stand up kicks, offense.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
JJ McCarthy is you have to throw a touchdown in
this building. He's under center, first down, first and ten
from the twenty. Oh my Gara saw and Hawkinson jump.
There's something with this cadence here that's getting them.
Speaker 6 (13:10):
I mean offense Mr nine and seventy one personal fasts
a five guard penalty of first.
Speaker 7 (13:17):
Down, go ahead Freudian slide there by the official No,
he McCarthy tried to check to a different play and
I don't know, you know, sometimes you're allowed that in
the play. Sometimes it's a play it, you know what
I mean, where you can't check it. And they were ready.
The whole entire offensive line was ready for the snap,
and they were a lot of them were moving. So
(13:38):
to me from the from from this angle, it looked
to me like it was a mistake made by McCarthy.
Speaker 8 (13:43):
Join us again for another famous moment in the gas offense.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's a play.
Speaker 8 (14:02):
Fall star by the offense number seventy five, five yard
penalty second down.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
It's gonna be a long year.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I can see that it might even be a long
three or four years. This is from five to one eight. Guy,
he won two games already. He's going to be elite.
How you people.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Can't see it? You're clueless.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
To come from behind factor is more important than putting
up a lot of yardage. Who said anything about yardage?
Qb our stats aren't just about yardage, and so is I.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
This is the beauty of being JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
He gets all the credit for the victories, but apparently
he'll he'll receive no blame whatsoever for the losses. Johnny,
let me ask you about something else. Let me find
the talking point here and see if we can get
to it. This one I classify as why doesn't KOC
(15:18):
like success? J. J.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
McCarthy in his second home regular season start, goes under
center first and ten from his own twenty one Jones
the tail back, and he gets the call. Nice hole
to the right side. He hits the twenty yard line
and Roekwan Smith and another raven or Able Koyer to
bring him down after a gain of six. Two tight
(15:40):
ends off to the right hand off Jones. He goes
that way past the line of scrimmers, gets to the
thirty Scots to the thirty five, No, the forty and
that's where he stopped at the forty one. Aaron Jones
speedy with that seventeen yard run.
Speaker 7 (15:55):
Hey Paul, what a shot in the arm. Come out
of halftime. You hand the football off one time and
get the first down. That's what Aaron Jones has been
given this offense the last couple of weeks. And despite
the shoulder being nicked up, he's out there just beautiful
cutback running.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
He's three of seven on third down.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
This is third and short. Two tight ends, they're balanced
offset I right McCarthy on third and One's gonna pass
from under center. He's gonna go deep.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Jeffer sue him well and.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Marlon Humphrey picked it up, picked it off at the
five yard line.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
The veteran Marlon.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
Humphrey heads up the field lazily to the fifteen. Now
he sprints twenty twenty five and JJ McCarthy has thrown
two interceptions. He's sprinting over to the sideline. Marthy's under center,
straight eye hand off to Jordan Mason. Good block by c. J.
Hamm Mason plows to the right across the forty and
he's finally stopped at.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
The forty five.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
It's a twelve yard run by Jordan.
Speaker 7 (16:54):
Mason, a little bit of a counterpower and that's that's
kind of the cool thing with the running game now,
is with Aaron Jones. You get in one style and
is that right back there you're getting another. And you
know the Ravens their front has not been all that
stout against the run, and we can't we can't just
abandon it.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
You know, it's a can tech thing as it is.
Speaker 7 (17:15):
Well, I think to throw the football in this case,
because the Ravens, after putting Kyle Hamilton in the box
and doing a number of different things trying to get
pressure on the quarterback, they've they've settled in to just
playing some softer underneath zones. You still need to run
the football. They feel an in motion to the left.
Two receivers right, Jefferson and Addison. Now Jordan's in motion
(17:37):
to the left third and three McCarthy back to pass
attempts to throw over the middle, put the balls batted
at the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I think by Kyle Hamilton, Johnny, you know the numbers.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
The Vikings averaged six point seven yards per carry. They
only ran eighteen times. They never ran I don't believe
even once on third or fourth down. Now, I don't
expect him to run on third and nine or there
are actually there are some teams who do run when
it's third and five or third and six or third
(18:10):
and seven. But we're back to helping out the kid
quarterback get on his feet. And I'll say again, there's
no one with a straight face who's going to tell
me that this head coach, with his stubbornness on wanting
to look like the cool quarterback coach, is doing that.
(18:31):
I don't believe that he is. And I thought we
saw it again with not one but two running backs
who are running very effectively. Now I get it, when
you're down fourteen or you're down fifteen, obviously everything kind
of changes at that point. Or But the truth is,
there are a lot of teams that will still insist
on we're still going to run the ball. Some we
(18:52):
may not run at four straight plays, but we're going
to continue to mix that in and that that's just
not anything that he's interested in doing.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, No, I mean, the one caveat I will give
him is that when you do have as many prestat
penalties as they did, it's a lot of first and fifteens,
and and that makes it more difficult. But the kind
of one of the hallmarks of Kevin O'Connell's tenure so
far as head coach, which has been successful. He's winning
(19:23):
games doing things, but he does he runs the ball begrudgingly,
like that's what it is. I mean, we remember his
first season where it was Alexander Madison basically like a
complete dismissal of the running game entirely. And and I
think that if he had a perfect day, they would
(19:44):
run twice and throw it sixty times and win the
game that way. That's just the way that he's wired,
the way that he has built. But you know, it
is going. It is damaging the Vikings champceons of winning,
especially when you look at in the context of a game.
I mean, Aaron Jones looks great right now. He really
(20:07):
has come off of that injury, is moving well. He's explosive.
He is making a difference in the running game when
the ball is in his hands. And I think that
JJ McCarthy is very erratic, and so it is kind
of confusing to me why you would put so much
pressure on McCarthy's shoulders to carry the load offensive when
(20:31):
you don't have to. If it was Alexander Madison it
was two yards in a cloud of dust, I would
understand it. But they are having real success in the
running game when they commit to it, and yet they
just go away from it time and time again.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
So there's a lot of discussion about the third and one.
This is in the first drive the second half. I
think that Guarzi had much of that drive covered the
runs early, because that drive indeed started with a seventeen
yard run by j Owns, then a five yard run
by Jones, then a four yard.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Pass to Addison.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
So it's now third and one at the fifty, and
I ordinarily, if you take the head coach at his word,
I ordinarily would say, I got no problem trying a
pass play on third and one as long as I'm
certain that you are going forward on fourth down. And
(21:26):
by the way, and this is the thing I don't
know that he owned up to you're going to run
the ball on the fourth one, because knowing him, he
was going to pass it on both plays. But I
will add this caveat to your point about the position
that the team is in at this point. The game
is getting shaky, right, the lead has been cut to one,
it's now ten to nine. They have a significant decent
(21:48):
amount of momentum. So as much as after the game
you heard the head coach say what we got to
you know, we got to balance this out. We still
got to let him learn and we got to try
to make some plays.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
I will continue to say, if.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
You want to do your quarterback in that situation a favor,
that's not the time you pick for that play. You
run it again, and I get it. It's it feels
like it's a wasted opportunity the way you like to
run offense. But I think you got to take pay
attention to time and place, and to me, the best
favor you do for your quarterback there is get another
first down and start the whole process over again.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
And that's why I I didn't even like that.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Call, even if I generally say, yeah, if you know
you're gonna have two downs to get the yard go
ahead fling it on one of those. But in that circumstance,
I'm not sure that I even would have done that then.
And I ultimately he doesn't know that the player that
JJ's gonna trip, right, Jefferson's gonna gonna stumble. But to me,
it's a it's another great illustration of where I just
(22:48):
don't trust his desire or enjoyment in just letting somebody
pound the ball for seven yards.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, I think that, you know, when you look at
that play, so much of it was right right. I mean,
you got Jefferson one on one, you all going down
the field, you have that fourth down, And I do
think today Kevin O'Connell did clarify that he at least
he said that he had a run in the chamber
basically down And of course, yeah, of course you're going
(23:20):
to say that. But you know, I'm with you on
that point of reading the game, reading your quarterback, and
reading the defense, all of those things to just say,
not to mention Dan that this has not been a
good short yardage team all season long. So you may
need two cracks at it to get the first down
(23:43):
on third and one and if you're just running it.
And so even if you go for it on fourth
and one, where the defense would presumably load up a
little bit more against the run, that might be hard
to pick up. So I think that at this stage
of JJ McCarthy's career, what you want is to build
(24:04):
successes throughout the game. Just get them feeling comfortable and
confident and keeping things simple. And if that means, well,
we don't want a baby him, sometimes you got you
might have to baby him early on, like and just
not give him too much to chew on and let
him find some success and some rhythm. The first drive
(24:25):
was really good, really impressive, but you still got to
build on that. And he has a a knack so
far for kind of going dormant through the second and
third quarters. And so when you have an opportunity to
extend the drive and when you're running the ball as
well as you are, you know, kind of leaning into
that I think is important just right now. There will
(24:45):
be times, hopefully in the future, where McCarthy has much
more command where everything is hitting on all cylinders, and
then you can get you know, you can get loose
with it and you can let him, let him let
it fly, But just right now, at this age of
his development, I don't know that he's ready for that.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
What is seventy two divided by thirteen.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I'm gonna do it. I got a calculator. I'm ready
because I don't trust my I don't trust myself. I
have that one seventy two divided by thirteen equals five
point five yards of carry. Those are the numbers related
to Jones and Mason, because McCarthy had five carries for
forty eight and a couple of people saying, well, the
numbers not as gaudy as you're making it sound. On
(25:27):
the ground game. By the way, I don't mind including
McCarthy in the ground game. I don't mind using his
legs on even on a on a third and one
or a third and three, because we had a bunch
of downs like that where we never even considered, we
don't even consider running the ball. But that's those are
good numbers for the two running backs, five point five
(25:47):
and again it's I think it's almost criminal that the
two running backs total thirteen carries. Its just you mean,
you look at the way now. I know Baltimore is
built different, but look what they did on They got
ahead in that game, they almost refused to throw the
ball until actually they I thought, did throw the ball
too much late to help give the Vikings that last chance.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
But they just kept pounding is what they did. And
here's another thing.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
If you have third and four or third and three,
you can run, and even if you get two that
it's fourth down.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
You have something to think about.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
But maybe that fourth and one is I think we're
afraid he has no interest in even throwing it on
running the ball on third and four. That's not illegal
in this league. You don't want to do it all
the time, but there are teams who do it actually
quite effectively.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
There is no one who can have a serious conversation
about that football game and say, well, you know, actually
Aaron Jones and Jordan Mason only average five point five,
so it's not that big. You watched that game and
the way that it was going, they were getting whatever
they wanted in the run game, and the way the
(26:58):
juice with which Aaron Jones was playing was palpable. You
could just see it. He was fast, he was explosive,
he was quick, he was ready. And if you want
to limit his pitches, if you're worried a little bit
about his injury. Jordan Mason is going to be fine,
especially in the third and one situations. So you know,
(27:18):
we can have debates about play calling and all those things,
but I really don't have a whole lot of time
for someone who says, well, actually, Aaron Jones and Mason
weren't all that good. It was mostly JJ McCarthy Patty
in that stat That's not what was happening in that game, no.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Question about that. We're very late. Thanks as always for
the time.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Wolves.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
We're going to get to next time we have you on.
I'll throw in one question for a thirty second answer.
There are Wolves fans who want to know if there's
any reason to think that there might be some John
Morant steam in the Minnesota Timberwolves future.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, not right now, Dan. I mean, I do think
that Tim Connelly's really aggressive. So if they are flailing around,
you know, late December, early January, they could revisit it.
They they are monitoring it, as stam Atic reported with
us with the athletic and I do think that they've
had some cursory stuff just thinking about it, but they're
(28:12):
starting to come.
Speaker 7 (28:13):
Around a little bit.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
They got to play a good team, but I don't
think they're ready to pull a trigger like that. And lastly,
a deal with for John Morant with all that money,
with the second aprons and stuff, is just very hard
to pull off if you don't have a ton of picks,
and the Wolves do not. So I wouldn't hold my
breath if I were Wolves fans. But we'll see if
it gets real, if things go off the table, you know,
(28:34):
late in December and they're and they're desperate for something.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Thank you, Johnny.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
We'll chat soon, all right, John Krasinski, Johnny Athletic quick
pause labor later this hour. And a thrifty traveler guy
in the five now Turmous Moments stand up kick offense.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
We've barely seen him since. All right, First down, first
and ten from the forty one flag, all start, Vikings
come in.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
That is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 6 (29:00):
Again for another famous moments, all right, Ben Leaver coming
(29:22):
up in just a few minutes, and thirty traveler guys.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I said in the five Lots of Vikings talking points
yet to comel that we've already offered up.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Several of them.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Like I said, I wish I could trust him more
because ordinarily, like I said, on a third and one,
if you've already decided we're going forward on fourth down,
I have no problem with trying to throw. You know,
it's like, okay, because it's not doesn't have to be
the If it doesn't work, you're not assuming there's gonna
be an I t obviously it's not gonna be the
(29:55):
end of the series. Now you do, I guess run
the risk of a sack where there's suddenly then you're
in a different position.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
But you can't play that way the whole game. I
just and you know, I'd like to.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Believe him when he says I had a run dialed
up for fourth than one if we didn't get the
first down. That's why I felt like we got, you know,
two downs to get this. Let's say, let's let's try something.
This is where you try to give any quarterback a
chance to sort of make a play.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I just don't trust him enough to do that.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Somebody had texted Shanahan and San Francisco developed the seventh
round QB and Brock party by allowing him to manage
the game, including short throws on a running game. O'Connor
last to justice lenses, he does not have Matt Stafford
under center. It's well put, I think, and eventually he
might I'm not kirk Cousins, right, Yeah. In the interim though,
I don't understand why it's that difficult to I mean,
(30:46):
accept four yards here, another first down, because in the end,
you're gonna there's gonna be time for McCarthy to to
prove he can fling. Right, There's always going to be
time for that. But there's no rush on that. So
in the meantime, because what is the head coach told us,
He has said, we're trying to do both.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
We're trying to develop this quarterback, but we want to
win right now.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
Right.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
So to me, the best way you thread that particular
needle is you are willing to go a little bit
even more conservative than you'd otherwise intended. Now, again, when
you're down fifteen, or were we down fourteen, whatever it
was at that point, obviously you're going to have to
start flinging it.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
That's just sort of the nature of the beast.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
But they even ran the ball a couple of times
on one of those drives when they were down fourteen
to kind of get him back.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
That's true. Sure, you're right, I mean it's not illegal.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
What you guys have made the point that Aaron Jones
looked really good yesterday, because he does look really good
at times, and he looks great yesterday. What's always funny
to me is they have and I was thinking of
this yesterday, they have really cool inventive running plays like
they do. Yes, they get him the ball and it's
the one cut thing that Mercers was talking about, and
it just looks effortless.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah, I forget us.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
You heard it from Yeah a couple of times before
the outcome was known, saying don't we can't forget about
the run, Paul. Last week they gave Atis in a carry, yeah, right,
and a huge play on third down and he picked
it up. There's so many different ways to move it.
It is crazy, though, how this has become such a thing. Yes,
the refusal.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Somebody had the numbers, you know, the you know, it's
like seven of twenty passing and like four times they've
run the ball in those situations.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
It's not that dramatic. But I'm not that far off. No,
not that far off. Are you losing your voice? By
the way, I might you got a little bit of
a little raspy. I mean it's you know, it's cold
in the air. Yeah, that's true. It's that time of year.
Load management. Ben Lieber will get.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
His reaction to yesterday's festivities. Maybe he'll help us prepare
for an interesting Monday night encounter involving an NFC North
opponent as well.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
No famous moments up kick offense.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
We've apparently seen him since. All right, first down, first
and tent from the forty one flag. All start vikings come.
That is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 8 (33:00):
Join us again for another famous moment in a guess
offense
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