SPOILERS: Talking The Bear with Chef Gavin Kaysen

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the Power Trip Afterparty Podcast. I'm Corey Cove. There's Meat Sauce,

(00:03):
paul Aambert, Hi Sauce, HiDaddy. Well, we're the in
the box questions too hard. Theythought I was you were gonna hate me
for those questions. No, theyweren't. I just I wanted to switch
it up a little bit, makelike challenges kind of can he do this?
And yeah, ikes himount of time. I should have got the fireman
bit. That was stupid of me. But yeah, no, they weren't

(00:24):
tour Okay, just check in.They're like, he's gonna hate you.
I don't know why I did thatin your voice anyway, This is the
Power Trip After Party Podcast. Sauce. You invited chef Gavin Cason in for
a couple of reasons. Hi Gavin, Hey, Hey. Number one,
we love having you on. Eventhough I like I'm six, I still
think your world is fascinating. Numbertwo, we've both watched The Bear season

(00:44):
two, so we had a wholebunch of chef related questions based on what
we saw in season two. Yeah, and then also the taste of the
tour is right around the corner,and you're a huge part of that.
Yeah, yeah, I'm happy tobe back. Thanks for having me.
All right, let's let's start withthe taste of the tour. Okay,
tell us what's happening, how you'reinvolved. I know you're gonna be out
of the country for part of it, it sounds like, But walk us
through what tasta the tour is.We've talked about it for years on this

(01:07):
show, but if people haven't heardit in the past, what is it?
So it's an organization that raises moneyfor VEEP. It's on July twenty
fourth and then so every year Iinvite a group of chefs and we do
a dinner for a couple hundred people. They have incredible auction items. There's
great celebrities, sports celebrities, youknow Jason's obviously, there are so many.
But you have Jamie Malone from theParis Dining Club, Yevang from Union

(01:30):
Munk Kitchen, Tony Yang and MartineMorelli who are both from Four Seasons.
Tony's the chef of Mara and Martinezexecutive chef of the hotel. And David
Fema from FEMA's and his newly openedMason Marco. Desserts are provided by my
team at Cook's Bellcore. It's agreat event. We've done it every single
year. We do an interlocking countryclub. I have a blast. Unfortunately

(01:53):
this year I'll be out of thecountry so I can't be there, but
we're sending our teams to go inand do some cooking and uh, honestly,
it's like it's it's one of thoseevents a it sells out quick.
But also the auction items are incredible. That's super cool. Yeah, there's
always great auction items. I thinkone of them last year a couple of
years ago, Andrew Zimmern was onand he was talking about how like you

(02:13):
could come watch him like record oneof his shows. Like it's it's not
auction items. You see it likeevery single charity, it's sweet items.
Yeah. The way that I mean, the way that they get these are
unbelievable. I always love the picturein the beginning too. We do this
big photo like group photo of allthe chefs and all these sports celebrities,
and it's like, you know,one year they put like Ben Liebert to

(02:34):
my left and Devin Dude it tomy right. It's like, guys,
could you be more cruel? Right? Five six six or something? But
then who was the guy that wasjust in that crazy game of hockey?
Seen this guy and there was thislittle kid out there who won the face
off and went through his legs.Yeah it was sweet. Yeah, that

(02:54):
was a great, great, greatbit. Yeah. All right, So,
Gavin, you've been on our showa bunch of times. But if
people don't know your restaurants or whyyou're widely known here in the Twin Cities
and obviously well beyond that, giveus all your list of restaurants here in
the Twin Cities. Yeah. Iowned Spoon and Stable, Demi Mara in
the Four Seasons and cookspell Core.We have three locations, one in North
Loop, one in Saint Paul,and one we just opened up any Dina.

(03:15):
So how often do Rosen and Karenshow up in their bathrobes? I'm
telling you that needs to be aT shirt. Yeah. See, I
you text me everybody would buy thathundred percent, And I think the T
shirt should be that photo and onthe bottom I should say snuggle up with
cafan in the morning. Yeah really, And I don't know. I mean,

(03:36):
it's like, this is the StateFair T shirt. He texts me
that I was in Chicago, andI'm like, this is fucking brilliant.
It has to be airt it sauce. You and I have known Rosie for
a long time. Here's exactly howthis would go down. Yea for twenty
four to forty eight hours. Whenhe finds out that's a T shirt,
he would lose his shit, likeyou're not fucking doing that. He would

(03:58):
yell at Avid. He hit upmy dad. Yeah, he would threaten
like this is bullshit. He wouldbe so pissed, and then thousands of
shirts would sell and everybody at thefair to be like Rosie Rosie, and
it would be all eyes on him, and he'd be like, Okay,
it's a pretty good shirt. Everyyear he complains about a shirt and it
takes him two days and then heloves it. He hated the fraud Father's

(04:20):
shirt last year until he found outthat it was what maybe the best selling
State Fair T shirt of all timelasting pipeline. Yeah, he hated that.
Love him a sound narcissistic. Correctyou at all bath robes at a

(04:40):
spa for Remember when he told methat that was going to happen. And
I think he and Karen were havingdinner and he was telling me that this
was going down, and I waslike, why would you? You know
what's like, you understand what's gonnahappen, right, you know, like
you know what's gonna happen when thisall goes public. And he's like,
yeah, I just don't think it'llget out there. He gets out there,
we all find out about wait tillwe shot that. Hey when?

(05:04):
And I'm not I don't need youto name names, but I'm leading in
a certain direction. If let's saya giant celebrity is in town and they
want to go to your restaurant,how do they like, like, are
there big celebrities? And I knowwe've kind of asked you this before that
we'll just eat. I don't carewhere you sit me. I'll come there
and just eat. Or do youhave something that are like, is there

(05:26):
like an area where my team cancome eat. We can come in maybe
in the back, and come outand then never be really seen. I
think there's only been that I canrecall at Spoon and Stable. I think
there's probably only been two celebrities whohave ever come in the back door.
Kevin Garnett was one when he cameback for his first Timberwolves game in Forever.

(05:46):
Yep. He sat in the privatedining room with his whole family and
it was great. The other onethat came in was Mick Jagger when the
Stones were in town. Ye,and I cooked for him a lot in
New York City, so I knewhis security detail pretty well. And the
way that they go into the restaurantis so smart, Like nobody knew that
he was in the restaurant. Nobody. And then there was this moment about

(06:09):
an hour and a half into hismeal where somebody at his table. I
mean it's the entire Stones band,right, so like if you don't know
anybody in the band, you don'tknow that anybody is at that table.
And then there was this there wassort of like a hush in the restaurant
for whatever reason, and somebody hashis table laughed really loud, and so
naturally you just kind of like lookover at the laugh, and Mick just

(06:29):
happened to turn his head and hisface and so everybody in the dining room
could see it was him, andI could. I was standing there,
and I could feel the whole diningroom go, that's Mick Jagger. Wow.
And then like nobody moved and likeeverybody who's down to eating, they're
like, we don't want the check. We're fine, We're just gonna sit
here. Yeah, yeah, there'snothing you can do. Yeah. At
my second favorite restaurant downtown other thanSpooning Stable Manny's, he was in there.

(06:51):
Yeah, and he the only requesthe had was I'm not taking any
pictures, and well, you canput my picture on the wall, but
it can't be a in the restaurant. He was like. But he came
in, sat with like one otherguy in one of the boosts in the
back. No one knew he was. He's little to little, and he
just walked out. But he said, no, I don't. We're not
taking any pictures with the staff becausethen that draws attention exactly. Yeah,

(07:14):
no, he was. He wasalways pretty even in New York when I
cooked for him a lot, hewas. I mean in New York,
it didn't he wouldn't. He wouldjust come in the front door. Yeah.
You know, um, I thinkhe shares an art collection with John
McEnroe. So he used to eatdinner a lot with John McEnroe, which
was always kind of odd, whata rich guy thing. Yet Yeah,
it's like Okay, it's funny.I don't know if it's I don't know
if it's chefs or if it's justyou. But I've always said that I

(07:36):
think gamblers have the best stories becauseit's just the roller coasters of finances,
right. It's people are betting theirlivelihood. So I love living vicariously through
a couple of my friends who arebig time gamblers love gambling stories. But
I don't know if it's just youor chefs. I love listening to your
stories because I think when you talkabout specifically celebrities and how they treat the

(08:00):
staff or how they want to betreated, you get to see like little
idiosyncrasies like how some people are willingto walk through the front door. Yeah,
you've mentioned some people who like todo a lap right to show the
whole restaurant that they are there,security detail, what they like to eat,
how they treat the staff, howthey treat the chef like I don't
know. I could listen to thechef stories all day just for the human

(08:22):
element of of I don't know howpeople treat other people. But now that
I've watched both seasons of The Bear, I'm I'm learning the craft more.
Yeah, in a fictional sense.Yeah, it's it's you know, it's
there's a lot of realism there andthe game of not only do you have
to have world class food, youhave to be so freaking detailed. Every

(08:46):
inch of your kitchen, every inchof your restaurant, every fork. As
we learned in season two, everythinghas to be detailed. And that includes
all right, this is Mick Jagger. This isn't meat sauce, that's you
know, going to Demi or Spoonand stable. This is Mick Jagger who
wants This is Mick Jagger, whohas a team with him, And now

(09:07):
the whole staff has to be analert man. The dynamics in the detail
are just it kind of blows mymind. But that's your entire life.
Like this is so weird. Nowthat I've watched season two, I'm surprised
you're here because I feel like youshould be working, you know what I'm
saying. I feel like we arewasting your time when you should be doing
something else that makes sense. Imean, the food business is nuts,

(09:31):
but like the Bear season two specifically, they did a really good job.
I mean it's a very triggering ifyou're in the restaurant, hospitality industry.
Like, it's a very triggering show. I mean, there are certain parts
of it. Where as an examplein that one, it's the last episode
when he gets locked into the coolerand he looks up and he sees all
of the tape ripped and not cut. So that's something I pick up on.

(09:54):
But if you look at that,he's looking at all of these containers
that have vegetables in it, andit's green tape, which is very classic
UM tribute to a restaurant and NAPAcalled the French laundry. Tom, is
that where he learned? That's wherehe learned. And so Thomas always bought
green painters tape because it was cheaperthan buying blue blue painter tape. But
now it's kind of all a wash. But nonetheless the tape is ripped.

(10:15):
Why would you rip the tape.If you ripped the tape, that means
you're wasting portions of the tape becauseyou're ripping it on a weird angle.
If you cut it all perfectly withstraight edges, you have absolutely no waste
and you're not defining mediocrity. Whywould you wake up every day and say
I'm gonna rip the tape and bemediocre. Why wouln't you just take the
tape and cut it and make itperfect? And of course this is spoilers.

(10:37):
This is all spoilers, of course, So if you're listening to this,
don't don't. If you haven't seenseason two, you probably shouldn't be
listening to this exactly. But thatwas I'm glad, you know. I
didn't mention I didn't notice the tapepart. But obviously the main message in
that getting trapped in the freezer isthat he feels that he has to have
a perfect mindset to be a perfectright, so he realized the girlfriend is

(11:01):
distracting him and that if his tapeI didn't catch that part, but if
his tape is off, that's hisfault. So that's what it is.
It's his fustraction he sees. Andyou know, it's funny. I had
a guest in at spoon last nightand I was working on the pass and
and she she looked at me andshe said, why are you you know?
She's like, are you just alwayskind of calm in the kitchen?
And I said, no, I'mnot always calm, but you know I'm

(11:22):
I mean honestly, like, myday can be filled with meetings and radio
and whatever a million things. Butthe second I'm in service and I've got
two hundred and fifty people that I'mcooking for in front of me, it's
the most peaceful part of my day. It's like when I am at the
most zen of my day. AndI've always recognized that if if, if
your team is going down, it'sreally a reflection on how you got them

(11:46):
ready to go, right. Imean, ultimately, you're the chef.
You're the one with the most experiencein the kitchen, So theoretically you should
be able to go to them andand sort of foreshadow that this cook is
going to go down in the shipbecause they don't have their prep ready to
go. I mean I walked ontoa station the other day and I could
tell just by the way that itwas organized that they weren't ready for service

(12:07):
thirty minutes out. And so Iwalked up to the SUX chef and I
said, can you go please jumpout of that station because they're not going
to be ready in thirty minutes.You know, they're like, yeah,
su and they know like they understand, yeah, Chef, I'll go and
I'll just make sure that it's likeit's organized, it's ready to rock and
roll, and we're ready to doservice. But it's just so funny because
those little things that they picked upon in the show, you know,
like they like when Richie did allthat training at that restaurant as a waiter.

(12:30):
That was a restaurant called Ever.That's a real restaurant. That was
my friend Curtis Duffy's restaurant. Ohyeah, for sure, that's a real
rest that's his real kitchen. Soit's he had a restaurant called Grace.
And actually I don't think that there'sI don't think his documentaries out anymore,
but he had a documentary out calledfour Grace and it was it was on
I think it was on Netflix.Anyways, his story is insane. He

(12:54):
was as a little boy, he'she's growing up. I think he grew
up in um Indiana, Ohio.I can't remember, but anyways, both
of his parents were murdered in anattempted break in and robbery to his house
and he was a little boy andso he goes this. The whole documentary
is like how he worked through thisincredibly horrific and traffic and trauma triggering experience

(13:16):
as a child, and how thateventually shaped him as a person and as
a dad and as a chef lateron in life. And I met Curtis
probably it was probably nineteen years agowhen he was the pastry or he was
a sux chef at a restaurant calleda Lenia in Chicago. A guy named
Grant Achets as the owner of thatone. So Curtis was working there for
a long time. He ended upleaving opened up Grace. He closed Grace,

(13:39):
he had an issue with his investors, and then he opened up Ever.
And the whole purpose of Ever islike there's no walls. Every no
wall has a sharp angle. Everywall is curved. And you see that
when rich like when Richie like walksinto the restaurant, Like you see all
these curved walls. Everything's very intentional, and so it's crazy to just sort
of see that that restaurant in thatmoment. But like when she's expediting and

(14:03):
she's like and all of that's goingon, like that's exactly, that's one
hundred percent reality when you expedite arestaurant, All right, let me let
us. She let me throw abunch of things that I saw in season
two, and I just want toget your take on the reality factor.
Yeah, how close it is andhow how you've experienced things like this?
Uh, when Richie goes through histraining, right, he kind of understands

(14:24):
now what it takes to be worldclass. And he finally realizes, like,
I can't I can't half ass thiseither if I want to get up
off my ass, since you knowhe's losing the wife's gonna remarry, like
his life's fallen apart. He's like, if I'm gonna be serious, I
gotta go all in. And hegets gets back to Karmi's restaurant and he's
like, all right, now thisis serious and he does that interview and
he basically says, we can't hireher because she didn't realize that the napkin

(14:46):
or whatever was in the wrong spot. How do you how you know the
fork was missed placed on the napkinright? And he was like, how
can you see it for twenty minutesand not change that? Couldn't agree more
so, you've you've have you everfucked with somebody and had a test like
that? Like I do it allthe time, all the times. I
tape blue tape. I put bluetape on the floor, So the blue
tape that we label things. I'lljust take a stick or a blue tape
and I'll put it on the floorand see how many people walk past it

(15:07):
and not pick it up. Whywouldn't you pick up the blue tape?
You know what doesn't belong on thefloor, Just pick it up and throw
it away. So is that inthe interview process or is that just you
see how many people don't see Andit's not a test or it's not like
it's not like a threat to testhim. It's just like what do we
you know, what are we doinghere? Like how how do we how
do we want how do we wantto make sure that we are getting better

(15:28):
collectively as a group. What Iloved about his character in particular was once
he puts on the suit, hekind of becomes Superman. Yeah, and
that's also like a very real,like restaurant thing, like you have two
personas. You have your personas whoyou are, but like when you put
on your chef code or you puton your suit and then you're in service,
like it's a it's a show,like the show must go on the

(15:50):
act is there, everything's about itand it's it's so true. But I
thought that that was such a greatpoint out of like how did they not
fix the net akin with the fork? Like it's been there for twenty minutes
And it is a very true detailbecause we've all been out to eat where
like, you know, you're outof water and four people walk past you
at the water pitcher, but theydon't stop and fill up your water and

(16:11):
you're just like, I'm just youknow, I'm thirsty, right, like
can I just get some water?And it's those little what's the thing with
the restaurant businesses, it's all ofthose little things with that add up to
a much bigger thing. So evenwhen we get complaints at our restaurant,
I'll read the complaints and it's likeit starts with one thing and it's just
this domino effective issues. But itwas the one thing that triggered it,

(16:33):
and then we failed on six otherthings and it happens like you know,
you're gonna open up every day andsomebody's gonna walk out and say it's not
worth the hype. It wasn't thatgood. It was this and it's like,
but you just got to try todo better. But it's it's a
little bit like the fly in BreakingBad right, Walter White did not want
the fly in his methroom because ifthe fly gets into his batch, the
whole batch is fucked. Right.You can't do that. So I love

(16:56):
the concept of even a piece ofblue tape on the floor. It doesn't
mean that the meals gonna suck.It's just the principle of we have to
be ultra ultra detailed, just howdo we be better? And that's and
the other A couple of the otherscenes that I thought were fascinated was when
when Richie is sitting in on thatmeeting and they are sitting around the table
breaking down tonight's meal like it's afootball game, right, it's we have

(17:19):
these people, this people, youknow this. They're celebrating this, they're
going through it like they've broken downfilm. And it's fifteen of them sitting
in there, going all right,are we all freaking ready? Here's the
game plan? You know, breakgo yep, And Richie's kind of overwhelmed,
like, holy shit, you guysare unbelievably prepared. And then of
course when he gets back to theother restaurant. It's all right, no
more messing around. I wear suits. Now let's go talk about that free

(17:44):
meal meeting. I assume you havethose every night at every restaurant you own.
Yeah. Yeah, pre shifts,um, so we do a couple
of things. I mean, wehave a pre shift meeting. So you
have that before dinner service. Everybody'sin the in the room, you're going
through every reservation, You're walking throughthe names, you're communicating notes that you
have on the guests, their preferences, you know, so and so sitting
down they want, you know,the gentleman requires sparkling water, that the

(18:07):
lady requires still, and they're writingthat down. So then that way you're
not going to the table and sayingwould you like still water? Sparkling water?
You already know ye that okay,the gentleman like sparkling and the lady
like still. So just bring thatman all those all those little finite details
of what you know that they want. And then we have a whole other
program what's called dream weaving, whichyou saw a little bit in the story

(18:27):
too, or a little bit inthe show as well about the pizza bit.
Yeah, and so will Godera therewas the book that says an unreasonable
hospitality that he opens up at onepoint. That's a book written by Will
Gadera who's a dear friend and hewas an owner of a restaurant in New
York City. And his whole hiswhole point of the book even when he
wrote it, was like, howdo you come up with these really unreasonable

(18:48):
opportunities of hospitality that a guest hasno idea that they want and you exceed
though, So he does the pizzayep. And I remember, I mean
I remember being in New York oncewe had these four guests. They were
sitting on table end, which wasthe table right right when you walked into
the restaurant, not from New York. The captain overheard them say, God,
we have so many incredible experiences whilewe hear in New York City.
The one thing we forgot to getis one of those street hot dogs.

(19:11):
Yeah. And so he came backand he said, Chef, they they
want a street hot dog. AndI said, okay, Madu, who
was one of my runners, Isaid, run down to the corner,
grab four street hot dogs for me, real quick, hold on entrees.
So instead of them getting their maincourse, I walked out there with four
hot dogs wrapped in foil and theysaid, what is this. I said,
it's the street hot dogs you forgotto get. Let's have those before
them. And it's like their mindis kind of blowing, like wait a

(19:32):
minute, because it's not about yougoing this extra mile or whatever. It's
about the fact that you're listening,you're paying attention. Happens as well.
Yeah, yeah, we call it. It's called a chit. We called
a swan ya um. And soall of the information is on is on
these little notes, and so youknow what's going on. Everybody sort of
has these different moments. There's arestaurant in in outside of DC where they

(19:55):
actually rate the guests. So it'sone out of I think. I think
the scale is one out a ten, ten being obviously the best, you
know. And so it's about yourmood, how do you walk in,
how's your energy? So, likelet's say Sauce walks in and it's like,
okay, his energy is a four. Everyone's gonna everyone's gonna be everyone's
gonna go yeah, having a goodday. Rosie walks in like he's a

(20:18):
two because someone's wearing a T shirt. Yeah, And up the town's one.
He's not even there. If he'sgonna pick up the town, he's
not even there. No, right, but they they'll they'll rate you.
So they'll say, Okay, Sauceis a four, and then everybody goes
around his heart. How do webring the four to the eight? What
do we have to do? Whatare the what are the little things,
the little moments of hospitality, thelittle majestic moments that can bring this guest

(20:41):
there. So it's it was just, I mean, it's crazy to those
parts of that show are like deadon. So I think I told you
the story in the past. Butas a guy that eats like I'm five
and again, that's offensive, whichbecause I'm on this show with you often,
I have to like explain to peoplebecause they asked me in the restaurants
after I do these shows, peoplelike, oh, I love when you're
on ky Fan, They'll like,Discord really not. I'm like, listen,

(21:02):
yep, I'm like, he doesn't, but this is he doesn't eat
this way. But you have tounderstand, this is not like a bit,
It's not like no, it's psychological, psychological reality. I'm like,
you know, this is not likehim just saying it on radio because he
thinks it's funny. And they're like, oh, we thought it was,
and I was like, no,I understand that, but it's not.
I used to people accused me ofdoing this because they thought I was cool.

(21:22):
Ye, like, who thinks thisis cool? This is like the
douchiest persona ever to eat, likem so. But again, as a
guy that in general have not Ihaven't spent a lot of time in world
class restaurants because that menu doesn't fitmy style right. But since I've been
dating my girlfriend's slash wife now forthe fourteen years, uh, I don't
know, a long time, tenyears ago almost now, she wanted to

(21:44):
go to Travail and I'm like,I don't know what I'm gonna eat there,
but it's for you. Let's go. Yeah. So, And I
think I've told you this story,but the pizza's scene in Bear season two
reminded me of this. So theystart, you know, bringing the choruses
one at a time, and ofcourse after about three times where the play
gets dropped off, I don't touchit and they take it clearly like you're
just talking about the server had saidto the chef, he's not eating anything

(22:07):
right, the guy seat two ontable four is like, oh for three.
So they walked back to me,They're like, you know, is
there anything wrong or and I'm like, no, I just eat like I'm
five. Don't worry about man,I'm just here to drink. And they
asked me what I liked, andI'm like, look, I'm a chicken
finger and fry guy, so don'tworry about me. And even though I
only ate about half of them,because the presentation freaked me out a lot,

(22:29):
he spent the rest of the night. When other waves of food came
out, it was chicken fingers kindof like on like sticks. Yea.
Then it was like cut up almostlike chicken, like popcorn chicken. Like
every wave had a different kind ofchicken finger and some of them honestly just
grossed me out, just but theytried like it was like a challenge.
It was how can I make chickenfingers fun? The rest of the night

(22:53):
loved the attempt, and I toldhim that I'm like, dude, you
didn't have to do that. Thatwas super cool. Yeah, And I've
had that in my head now forten years. It's awesome. Even though
it wasn't my favorite chicken they tried. I liked about half of it,
and I told India, like,this is unbelievable. I'm like, is
this how the world works for normalpeople? This is awesome? So when
I saw the pizza scene in Bareseason two, not only did the chef

(23:17):
just you know, take the pizza, like made art out of it,
right, Like, how do wehow do I make this pizza mind?
But still give them that Chicago deepdish that they I thought that was super
cool. Yeah, I mean,and that's that's the that's kind of the
fun part of that is the funpart of our business. Yeah, you
know, because you get creativity.Yeah, and you get a lot of
people that come up and they're justlike, look, I'm here, I'm
surrendering to you, you know,like I want you to cook for us,

(23:40):
and I want you to do whatyou do. And then you get
some people that come in and they'relike, you know, I don't I
don't want I don't want any ofthat chicken tender. Yeah, they're like,
Okay, what are we gonna do? How are we gonna change this?
How do we make this part ofours? And how do we make
this part of their experience? Andit's just like those little tiny moments that
like somebody remembers that for ten years. That's amazing. Yeah, you know,
I mean you'll never forget that aslong as you live. And so

(24:03):
now you now you now correlate thatrestaurant with that experience, and for that
reason, it's an incredible space togo to. And you'll always say,
no, it's really cool. They'refun, they're creative, they got out
of their way, they care yep. So one of the things that I
wanted to mention that I just assumed, I guess I never assumed it happened
until I saw A Season two wasthe when they were struggling to get the

(24:23):
staff hired. Yeah, the thepoaching um where you know, they're they're
in the alley and obviously he's like, hey, get you know, basically
get out of you're no poaching.Yeah yeah. How often is that an
issue where where maybe not because there'sa problem staffing, but how often is

(24:45):
it almost like NBA free agency whereyou know, Gavin, you know,
either it's a chef or a frontof restaurant staffer that's there's talent somewhere else
in the Twin Cities and you're like, how do we steal them and get
them here? That's the kind ofperson I need on my team. I
mean, it certainly happens. Ithappens less, thankfully, it happens less

(25:07):
than it seems a lot of ushave so much respect for each other that
like, we'll get a resume andwe'll see that, oh, they're working
at X restaurant right now, andwe'll call and say. You know,
like when Bachelor Farmer was open,as an example, in Eric Dayton and
his team owned that. Eric andI kind of had this like pack,
like, listen, we're not goingto poach from each other. We're across
the street from one another. Soif somebody applies from Spoon to Bachelor Farmer

(25:30):
or vice versa, just give acourtesy call and say, hey, so
and so applied. I just wantedto give you a heads up. Is
everything okay? And they'll say,oh, I didn't know that they were
applying, or yeah, no,it's good. We've encouraged them to go
and work work somewhere else, andthis is a good spot for them because
they've been here for three years andthey're not gonna go up the ladder.
Whatever it might be. And soit's just honestly, it's a matter of

(25:52):
communication. I've never gone into analleyway or I've never gone into a restaurant
and been like, wow, I'mgonna poach this person. I've definitely gone
to restaurants and having credible service bypeople and said, whenever you're interested in
moving on, we would love tohave you apply at Spoon and Sable.
But we're not hiring now. Imean, I would say that for sure,
because there are some people that arejust they get it and they're so
amazing at what it is that theydo. But that's a fine line though,

(26:15):
right, it's almost like a greatarea of Yeah, I'm not making
you an offer, but I'm extendingan arm, extending my hospitality to you
that you know, like whenever wheneveryou feel it's as though it's time to
find something else. Great But alot of plus a lot of servers work
usually two jobs, like maybe threedays at one restaurant, two days at
another restaurant or something like that,just to kind of mix it up,

(26:37):
right, And so maybe you canpick them up for that. I don't
know, but it's in those finedining, super high end echelon restaurants,
um DEMI being one of them forsure, and spoon to a degree on
that. It's hard to have thosetwo jobs. I mean we require a
lot of we require you to knowa lot of knowledge. Wow. Um,

(26:57):
what are parts of the show thataren't realistic? Or did they do
such a good job that, likeI'm I would assume that they had some
maybe people who work in the restaurant. Well that one guy, hold on,
I had his name right here,uh, Maddie Mathinson, Right,
he actually owns a bunch of restaurant. Yeah, a big guy. Yeah

(27:17):
he list in Toronto. Yeah,which guy, A fat tattooed guy.
Yeah. Yeah, he's a realchef. Yeah yeah, yeah, I
think you weren't here, but hebrought that up when we Yeah he um
so I met him in Toronto.He is he has to help, right,
Like he's probably like dude that doesn'tand they haven't really good I don't.
They just did an article it waseither in Vanity Fair or GQ.

(27:41):
They just did an article on theirfood stylist, who I think came from
the restaurant ever in Chicago, whohelped with a lot of stuff. The
one thing that's definitely not realistic ishow do they spend half a million bucks
and get that restaurant? Because they'relike, oh, it was half a
million dollars, I'm like, costway way more than right, Listen,
I can sell you. I've donea lot of construction stuff. Yeah,
that's not a half note, butit's a way more. I mean that

(28:02):
was that was one that you're justlike, there's no way. But otherwise
they did a really good job.I mean that, you know, the
the the intentionality of like sending outThey sent out that one chef to Copenhagen
to do the stage. Is thata real place? The restaurant. I
don't know the restaurant that he wasat, but he walked through a restaurant

(28:22):
called Noma, if you remember that, and he just kind of like looked
around. Nomah's owned by a guynamed Renee rod Zeppi who worked at the
French launder years ago, probably twentyfive years ago. And Nomah has been
the number one restaurant in the worldthree different times. And it was interesting
that they went to Copenhagen for thatbecause in our business, Copenhagen has had

(28:45):
a lot of controversial things written aboutit, specifically in Wall Street Journal and
I think Financial Times wrote an articleabout how these young cooks go to Copenhagen
to do what's called an educational stageand they end up working for free for
months, and so the whole articlekind of blew up, like, wait
a minute, is our culinary professionin Copenhagen being supported by free labor?

(29:06):
Yeah? Right? And what doesthat mean and why? So there was
this huge article written about it.So I know a lot of people wrote
after they saw that episode, like, wait a minute, why are they
going to Copenhagen knowing that this cameout, So that was a little bit
like, you know, kind ofokay, that's interesting, but like that
whole part is really you know,that's true. I mean, the whole
idea of like going out doing astage, getting this education from somebody else.

(29:27):
I mean I did that certainly whenI was a young cook, and
we do that for a lot ofpeople now. All right, So,
by the way, again back toyour time. I have no idea how
much time you have, so youlet us know when you have to go.
But I have a bunch of otherquestions, So specifically that pastry chef
guy who's in Copenhagen, whose character'sname is completely escaping me right now with
the mother who's dying. There werea bunch of times in the first two

(29:51):
seasons he'll try something right and krmitaste it and then give them a look
like god damn, you got somethinghere, and again as a guy that
and eat normally, it looks likeit's an invention, right, not just
like a variation, Like Carmine hasthe look on his face like this has
never been done before. How isthat realistic as well, where people are

(30:14):
literally saying, I'm gonna try somethingthat's never been done or I think his
reaction is probably more to the factof like you nailed it, like you
like you've like you've nailed acidity tofat to solidity, like you've got all
of those flavors right, so likeit's acidically perfect. It's it's got enough
fat to it, you seasoned itcorrectly, textually, it's right, And

(30:34):
I think you know that like whenwe're cooking, or when when someone's cooking
behind me and then they play orpass the food up for me to plate
it. You know, I'll tasteit and it's like you know, within
a second, like putting it inyour mouth, like Okay, it needs
more acid, it needs more salt, Like it's just your palette becomes so
hyper aware. That's why before Igo into tastings with my team, I

(30:56):
always eat lunch. I never gointo a tasting hunt, you know,
starving, because if you go toa tasting starving, it's no different than
going grocery shopping hungry. You're like, I'm gonna buy everything. I'm so
hungry, Like the donuts look great, the chips look great. Um.
So you go to the restaurant andyou do a tasting You're like, Okay,
I'm very hyper aware. So that'sreally what it is. It's and
be like, yeah, you nailedthat. I thought that part was fascinating.

(31:18):
Just again, He's like he comesback from Europe, so probably like
I have this yeah, And thenI just I'm like, Mike, did
he just reinvent the wheel? Yeah? But I guess it's more of just
again Carmine finally be like that wasworth the time over in Europe. That
was worth the money, Like younailed it. Yeah. Um. The
other thing that they have really hammeredon in the first two seasons are is
the dynamic between uh what is hername now? I haven't watched it in

(31:41):
two weeks, and I'm blanking onthe main female name. What's her name?
Her name is Sydney, Sydney.Yeah. So when Sid and Carmine
are constantly arguing or fighting, youknow, they get that like sign language,
like I love you symbol. Inseason two, it's like, all
right, we're mad right now.But it's this is just about the business.
This is not personal. I assumethat's in all walks of life.

(32:06):
I think our shows kind of shitit that we like to be very insecure
and and uh and I don't know, defensive. Yeah, how how do
you as the head guy? That'syour job, right, Kevin is you're
you're the leader, You're Carmine inthis situation? How do you deal with
employees where it ultimately they know it'syour vision, but you respect their vision.

(32:28):
But you you guys got to battleit out and and and hash that
out in the moment. How doesthat work? Sometimes it's a balance where
you just don't do it in themoment, you know, and you just
pull away and you say, Okay, I know what it's like to be
on the other side of this,because I've worked for the guy too.
Yep. You know. So I'mjust gonna take a deep breath, I'm
gonna come back to them and aday I'm gonna come back to them at
five hours and talk to them aboutit and say, like, think about

(32:52):
it, you know, and andand what you're trying to do in that
time is you're trying to explain thatthe thirty thousand foot view of the business
detail. Yeah, and and andof what you're trying to create. It's
like, look, I know thisone dish that you thought of, you
think is lights out, but noneof the guests like it. So what
can we do to change it?Like we've got to rip apart our ego
a little bit, tear it downand say, like, I mean,

(33:14):
and there there are dishes that I'vecreated where I'm like, oh my god,
I love this dish. It's sogood. You put it on the
menu, and people just don't likeit and they don't order, and you're
like, oh, really, likewhere did I drop the ball on that
one? And sometimes it's just likeit's either too cheffy, right, it's
like just kind of over everybody's head, or sometimes it's just like it's really
just not that great and that's okayto make the mistake. The difficulty is

(33:36):
when you make that mistake, thenyou don't have anybody that like edits it,
you know, you you I lookat my job kind of as an
editor in a way where they'll cometo me with a menu, they'll come
to me with a dish, They'llcome to me with whatever it is,
and they'll say, Okay, whatdo you think, and it's you have
to sort of edit thinking about allof the different type of people you're cooking
for and experiences that you're gonna havebecause you're gonna have somebody like Sauce will

(33:57):
show up, you know, threetimes a week and get this dish,
you know, so they'll understand theconsistency, or you'll have somebody that'll save
up six months for that one dish, right, and so like you want
to be able to deliver for thatfor that person that's there on the six
month and the person that's there threedays a week, and so it's a
it's a fucking balance. Wow,It's just a balance. So it's NonStop.
I would argue the thesis statement thepoint of season two was was really

(34:22):
laid out at the end that youhave to love this or you're in the
wrong business, right, Yeah,you have to love serving other people the
same way Jamie Lee Curtis, eventhough she fucking complains, was unbelievable.
That's one of the best episodes ofany TV show I've ever seen, Like
If If, If Who, Likethat was the most triggering episode for so

(34:45):
many people. Yeah, Like,it doesn't matter who you are, what
kind of family you're raised or whatever, part of the family, part of
the family, like watch it.You're just like everybody's had that moment in
their life. Is like, holyfuck, Like this is really happening.
Yeah, but yes, you haveto love it. And what I what
I loved about the last episode thatit really told you was the what the
camaraderie of this business can give you, Like you look at all of these

(35:06):
people in that kitchen, were like, at one moment, Sydney's got it,
she's got it under control, andthen she loses it. It's gone.
She can't handle it. Carmen's stuckin the fucking freezer so he can't
fix anything, so he's completely outof control. And then Richie comes in
and steps up the big brother outof nowhere, who you think is a
total shiit case and he puts everythingtogether and all of a sudden, you

(35:27):
see the whole kitchen just stop,and it's like you you can feel,
like as somebody who knows what thatfeeling is like, to like pull yourself
out of the weeds and get througha successful service. We had that at
Spoon a couple of years ago.We had a New Year's Eve service that
was like that. It was justlike chaotic, difficult. It was one
of the hardest services and I justremember the grabbing the past and I was

(35:49):
like, Okay, I got it, let's go. And a couple of
the employees came up to me afterit It's like, how did you get
through that? So calm? AndI'm like, there's only one option to
get through. You have to that'sit. That's your only option. If
you walk and starts screaming and yellingand throwing shit, what do you expect
everybody to do over it's over.They're gonna be like fuck this, I'm
out of here. And I don'tblame him, I'm with him. So
that was a huge reality of thatshow. It's like, Okay, let's

(36:09):
get into the camaraderie of it too. Yeah, you gotta be built for
it. It's just weird. I'mjust I'm just loving learning about the game
theory of restaurant tours, yeah,right, the minutia, like every detail,
the strategy, the teamwork. It'sjust I felt so naive before these
last two seasons of understanding how itworks. It's like, sure, you

(36:31):
gotta have good food, you gottahave a good chef, hospitality. I
had no idea it was this deep. If this is close to reality,
and it sounds like it is,yeah, because they picked up a whole
lot of insecurities too. Yeah,like the one person you know, it's
like Carm Camm kind of has thatI don't remember the guy in the corner
who told him that his food wasterrible whatever, and he like envisioned.
Yeah, that guy there, Likethose insecurities are real. I mean Joel

(36:51):
McHale right, yeah, former hewas the boss of that one restaurant that
Carm worked out super high season,like world class restaurant. Yeah, and
it's like that's you know, it'strue. It's like, you know,
you're putting yourself out there every singlenight, and you know you have to
accept like people are gonna walk outand say it wasn't good. You know,

(37:12):
how are you gonna react to that? But you gotta believe you're good
enough too, right. And that'sthe older gentleman in season two, right,
that starts to doubt himself when he'sat school and he's like, I
don't know if I want to dothis anymore, and that I think it
is the kind of the point ofthe end of the season is if your
heart's not in it, you're notgonna be able to keep up with the
rest of the team that still cares. Right, they still have drive.
The dude's missing the death of hismother. Yeah right, Karmy's willing to

(37:34):
potentially throw away his die hard longterm crush, like yeah, you know
Sid's dad who initially sounded like hewasn't thrilled about her going into field because
it wasn't a career. He's startingto come around because he sees that she's
all in and he respects the allin factor, even if it's not the
choice he would have made. Everybody'sall in except for older guys like,

(37:55):
I don't know if I want todo this anymore. I don't know if
I can I don't know if Ican clean forks at five o'clock in the
morning. Right, and it's notmy life style anymore. Man, it's
season two. I told Sauce,I was a little not bored. I
was a little concerned the first halfof the season. I'm with you,
you were too. I was thefirst the first three episodes, I was
like, I don't know, I'mnot I'm not. I wasn't into because

(38:16):
it didn't have that it didn't havethat high energy pace and sort of that
stress. It just felt like HGTV. It felt like I was watching a
renovation of a kitchen. I'm like, I don't know if I care.
And then and then all of asudden, and I mean yeah, once,
once Jamie Lee Curtis is a totallycame in. It was like,
all right, this whole season justshifted. That's I can't and everything made

(38:37):
sense. Right. You saw whyRichie's the way that he is, why
Carmy's the way that he is,Why Jamie Lee Curtis was the way that
she is, why he cares somuch about perfection and attention to detail.
Just absolute home run. Final whatfourish or five ish episodes nailed it at
the end, even the scene whereI think the guy the it's the it's

(38:59):
the his sister husband who's in allthose don't Tune into your Parents commercials where
he meets Jamie Lee Curtis outside ofthe restaurant and she's so fucking self conscious
because her kids have finally done something. But she, like you said,
like you get into this. Somany weird things have happened in their life
that she doesn't want to fuck itup by showing up. That's so heartbreaking.

(39:21):
Like she's proud, but she can'tbe proud because like she's let them
down so many times and wrecked everyfucking Christmas they've ever had, and she's
been such a disaster to them,and their brother's dead. She can't bring
herself into the restaurant. That's sucha heartbreaking scene. And even the brother
in law like he can't get over. It's like it's like she realizes she's

(39:42):
the kryptonite. Correct, Yes,you know she walks in that door.
It's almost her aura is gonna likeit's over everything down. Yeah, when
in all reality, all they wantto do is see her just walk through
the door. Yeah. They justwant her to sit down and enjoy it.
They do in respect, how farthey've come right. Yeah, yeah,
one of the things that I shouldhave asked you half an hour ago
because it was earlier in the season. But the obsession with like the gas

(40:06):
leak or the potential gas leak,right or the obviously they highlighted a lot
like we have to get this upto code before the restaurant opens, or
we're never going to get the permit. Do you do you constantly deal with
rules and regulation? Are you alwaysyou have to be concerned about every single
code almost daily? Or how oftendoes that jump into your head? Well,
I mean the code stuff is basicallydone once you once you build it,

(40:30):
because you go through all of thatstuff when you build it. So
when you're going through preconstruction phase,construction phase, and then final sign off,
yeah, one hundred percent, you'reworried about every little detail, like,
you know, is that floor okay? Is the is the trim on
the baseboard it's gonna be okay?Is that washable? Scrubbable? Like all
of these little tiny things that arejust so fascinating. And what's really difficult

(40:51):
is that every city has a differentcode. So if I build a restaurant,
and why is that a that's differentthan building a restaurant in Minneapolis terms
of its code, so you're dealingwith two different codes. Wow, you
know, and so you're learning onthe fly a little bit as well.
Yeah, well your contractors helping you. Okay, if you have a good
contractor, which we're grateful to havealways had, you know, they help

(41:12):
you and they're like, this isexactly how you follow the code. And
then once you're open, it's justa matter of you know, following what
you already know in terms of likehealth codes and you know, food safety
and things like that. But youknow, like me and the team,
I mean they take we take classeson that stuff. So in my lame
day or and a half or soof just sitting in my hotel room in
Las Vegas working on initials, Icaught a little bit of Oceans thirteen.

(41:35):
Ever seen it? Maybe I feellike I have on a plane. I'll
give you the short of it.But Al Pacino is opening a new casino
called The Bank, and he's obsessedwith winning a five diamond award. Basically,
yeah, just for class top tobottom, from rooms down to restaurants.
Right. And part of the scamthat the Ocean's crew runs is ruining

(41:59):
the guy who who's there to actuallyreview it, right, he's trying,
They're trying to make his experience asworse as possible. And then they have
an imposter that Pacino thinks is theactual reviewer. Right, So of course
once Pacino identifies him, it's basicallywhat can I do for you? Right,
lays out like the red carpet forthe five diamond reviewer. Guy.
Do you do you get heads upsat all when restaurant critics or any kind

(42:23):
of I don't know if consumer reportsit's the right phrase, but do you
know when people are in the restaurantspecifically to judge you? Not always,
but sometimes yeah, I mean,you know, we'll have I mean I
remember in New York, I meanthis is year, this is over ten
years ago, the critics were anonymous. Then they're kind of like they're less

(42:44):
anonymous now, just based on thefact that social media is out there.
But there was a huge wave ofcritics sort of having this coming out party
all over the country years ago tobasically say like we're done being anonymous.
We're just gonna show up the oneanonymous guy that still exists as the Michelin
guy, which we don't have herein Minnesota. New York has it,
California has it, three cities inFlorida have a Chicago has it. I

(43:06):
think DC has it. Why isit limited to those areas? The tours
and board of those states and citiespay for the offset of the labor to
do it, to rate you becauseit's a tourism guide. I mean,
the whole reason that book was createdin France in the in the nineteen hundreds
was because Michelin, the tire company, gave you a book of where to
eat all around in France with yourbrand new tires on your car, so

(43:27):
you could drive around France and eatit all the places that they rated excellent
and then come back and buy newtires. Pretty smart, pretty smart.
So you know, it's it's atourism thing. And I wish if anybody's
listening from the state of Minnesota thatthey would pay for this because it would
be important for our for our stateand for our city. That's probably the
only guy that's really still anonymous.It is the only guy, and it's
literally one man. It's one guy, or you don't know, it's hundreds

(43:52):
and hundreds of hundreds, hundreds ofpeople around the country. That that will
that will go in and eat atyour restaurant, and you can either get
one star, are two stars orthree stars to attain I don't know.
We could look up how many threestar Michelin restaurants there are in the world.
I'm gonna guess there might be eightyin the world. Think how many
restaurants are in the world. Sothree stars to give three star Michelin,

(44:15):
it's the most difficult rating to toachieve. Ever, and it's one hundred
and thirty seven. Yeah, where'sthe closest one to us? Chicago where
Millennia has three stars and every whichis in the shower. Rosie basically said,
get lost. I think Ever's gottwo Earth, I think it has

(44:37):
three. Actually, so Chicago hasgot some stars that you can feed at
um. But it's I mean thatthat that system. And I remember being
in New York and you know,you'd get like a single diner to show
up and the captain would come backor the waiter and say, you know,
chef, um single diner on tableeleven. We're gonna I think it's
Michelin. It's okay, guys,everybody, Michelin's on table eleven. Please

(44:58):
just on the odd chance that I'mjust on the odd chance that it's mischially,
you have no idea. But it'slike, so single diners almost always
a red flag. I mean somethingmight be time. At that time,
it was like that was the redflags super rare yep. And so we're
like, all right, single diner, it's gonna be Michlin, take care
of extra extra PPX, extra VIP. You know, you don't send extra
things per se. But you're juststaying focused. And you know, instead

(45:19):
of cooking if you order a halibit, instead of cooking one fish, we
cooked two, and then you takethe more perfect of the two and throw
the other one away. You know, things like that. Wow, you
know it's all those I'm gonna startshow it up to your restaurant us just
by myself, dressed as I shouldthe actual mask. Just sit there and

(45:43):
eat. He shows up as themission. We get it, Paul,
Yeah, we get it, Paul. We know no, you're not shut
up, Sit down, sit downand just enjoy. Yeah, quickly,
because we've gone almost fifty minutes onthis. What are some non restaurants you
own around the area that you recommend? Oh, I like young Joni Jon's
great. What do they do?What kind of food she does? So

(46:07):
it's it's Korean influence, but herpizzas are really good good. Um,
I loved her. I love hersweet potato dishes. She's she does upfront.
I don't know if she's still doingthe whole fish, but she does
a whole fish that's always been deliciousthat I love. Um, I've been
to where did I just go?Uh? Guy know which is in Lauren
Park and on med just open thatuh really really delicious. While you're listening,

(46:30):
let me stop you. I'm sorryto interrupt, but so you know
the the the restaurant that you mentionedin Chicago, that's real, but they
let Richie train there and say therewas kind of that understanding like no,
we're trying to help you out becausewe like you. We've always liked you.
Yeah. So when you go toYoung Jonie and it sounds like you
love that place, do you goout of your way before you leave to
say like, hey, I'm here. If they didn't know that you were

(46:52):
here there, and if they don'tknow who you are or that you were
there, do you say like,hey, by the way, I'm Gavin
and I do this and you guysare phenomenal or do you just get out
of there and leave? No,I just got If I'm walking past the
kitchen, I just say thank youand give them a head nod and say
thanks for dinner. It's delicious.And if they know you, they know
you in a fatal they don't,and it's okay. But you ever,
do you ever reach out to otherrestaurants in the Twin Cities and be like,
by the way, just heads up, I was there last. There's

(47:13):
a phenomenal service. Phenomenal. Yeah, that happens often. Yeah, we
get that team mentality. Yeah yeah. And I mean do you feel pretty
common to show up in restaurants especially? I mean it's a small town,
right, So, like, youshow up into a restaurant in our community
here, it's pretty common that they'llknow who you are when you walk in,
just just based on on everything thatwe've sort of done and so then

(47:34):
and then and it's not that necessarilythings change or or get different for you,
um, but it's just it's justa it's just a way to experience
a beautiful space. See, becauselike you know, I'm just trying to
make weird analogies. So my mindcan understand how this stuff works. But
if if I'm a restaurant in theTwin Cities and you walk into my restaurant,
I start shitting my pants. Right, it would be like golfing with

(47:55):
Tiger Woods. If you're an amateurgolfer, It'll almost be like, fuck,
Gavin's here, Yeah, all right. You would be the Michelin guy
from my restaurant. I'd be like, all right, we gotta give Gavin
the world class tream and otherwise he'sgonna say this restaurant sucks. Ass.
Yeah, let's let's go get himthe deep dish pizza in the street wants
the works. Yeah, I wouldfeel like, if they know who you

(48:16):
are, it's a little bit ofextra pressure. It's it's we got a
pro here. Let's let's show themwhat we can do. Yeah, I
mean I yeah, I don't goout of ton To to necessarily notice it
per se um. But sometimes,you know, I'll go out and I
can hear people saying like, oh, you know, Gavin's on table whatever,
and I can hear them talking aboutit and what they're saying. And

(48:36):
you know, my kids are muchmore um uh outspoken when it comes to
being like, you know, mydad's here. Ohtant. We were to
a restaurant and we're in Palm Springs. I think we're at the Ace Hotel.
And we sat down for lunch andwe ordered lunch and it took forever
to get apt like I'm talking anhour and fifteen minutes were just fucking appetizers.

(48:57):
And I was like, okay,listen, I'm you know my kids
are they were younger at the time, my two older boys, and I'm
you know, they're starving. Andwhen kids are starving, there's nothing no
worse them, right, and thenyou're starving as a parent, You're like,
I can't keep the ship together.The server comes up and says,
listen, I'm really sorry. Thekitchen's backed up, the pool's super busy,
there's an event they're just they're tryingto get out of. And my
middle son, Julius, looks upat the servant says, you know,

(49:20):
my dad's a really good chef.Would you like him to go help?
And he's seven, like he saysit in such an innocent ways. All
he was like help, like there'ssomething we can do to health awesome,
And the server was like, you'rea chef, and I said, yes,
in Minnesota, I have a coupleof restaurants there. I said,
I said, listen, could youjust give me a favor? Can you
just grab like three or four carrotsout of the walking and just bring them

(49:43):
to my kids? They're gonna eatsomething. She's like, you got it.
She brought out like a plate fullof you know, raw vegetables.
But it was just like, yougotta be kidding me. A lastly,
this is the last one for me. So uh, my brother is a
huge fan of diners, drive ins, and dives. And the one thing
guy Fiery won't eat. He doesn'tlike eggs. He doesn't like any form
of egg and like there was anepisode where like the woman made something extremely

(50:07):
good that had eggs in it andhe ate it. Is there something you
don't like? Um, I don'tknow if there's anything necessarily I don't like.
No, honest honestly, I don'thave like a repulsive reaction to that.
Like I know Andrew zimmer And hecannot eat walnuts. Well really he'll

(50:30):
eat I mean he eats like bugs, yeah he does. But shirt yeah,
and zimmer and will eat why eatgo to maybe we can? Yeah?
He probably he eats like it's crazyshit. But he will not eat
walnuts. Weird. That's weird.So it's not like an allergy or anything.

(50:51):
It's just he just doesn't like it. Like my old chef, he
won't eat bananas. All right.One, that's kind of variation. Because
we've had you almost an hour,we're wasting your time. You gotta get
back to the detail of the bluetake I go pick up the tape.
Um. Yeah, you mentioned earlierthat you know you you you once in
a while you have to be selfaware and realized that a dish that you
try didn't work right, and yougotta start over from scratch. Um.
What is the ingredient that you thinkyou try the most, that gets rejected

(51:15):
from the masses, that you thinkis better than the masses? Usually sardines.
Sardians are anchovies that you love them, but you you just can't find
like most people like I love freshsardines, you know, sounds awful.
I love fresh stardians and grilled andthen you put them on like a piece
of toast that's got like an eggplantcap and on the bottom sauce. You're

(51:37):
kicked out of the rest kick themout what do you mean you wouldn't need
it? You would for sure tryit. I try it, but my
so long story, shop, Ididn't tell you what it was. No,
I would try it for sure,but like my mom's dad fucking loved
sardians, which she was a kid, but it was probably the can of
course. Yeah that's that sh It'sterrible. Yeah, like a fresh sardine,

(51:57):
Sardians on Caesar salad an trophies,say ye think this is it?
This is what it's like this andI get it, like we all grew
up with that shit, like theanchovies and the sardines and the can or
the jar, the tin, anddon't you think it's also this is it's
like ingrained in our cartoon culture,right, those were always the stereotypical like
bugs, bunny, like gross food. So I wonder how much of it's

(52:19):
just like you said, if youhad just given it the sauce and said,
this is some you make up withsome other fish name that's exotic from
Thailand, try this sauce, Iwould mean if you say sardines, I
want to stay reaction as sauce aboutsardines. Before I had a fresh sardine
out of the water, grilled andthen put on. Then I was like,
holy shit, this is a sardine. So how often does sardines end

(52:42):
up on any of your menus?Never? Almost never literally never literally like
never almost never. Yeah, Imean it's we live in the middle of
the country, we're laying locked andso we eat cartoon ors. Not like
we grew up thinking like I don'tneed a ton of fish, you know,
like I love meats, I likebeef, I like pork, you
know things like I mean, Iremember my first complaint. It's been in
stables. You don't cook with enoughpork. And I'm like, okay,
sorry, you know, like youneed to cook with more meat. You're

(53:04):
in the Midwest. Now, I'mlike, God, and I get it,
one hundred percent get it. Butman, fresh stardines on toast,
lights out, dude, there's anhour of your time. Man, I
really appreciate it. I can talkto you. I don't even and I
still love asking about it. It'scrazy. You're the best guy. Sorry.
Where the restaurants again? What arethe names and where can people find
them? Spoon and Stable, Demimar At, the Four Seasons and any

(53:25):
of cookspell Cores, Saint Paul NorthLoop and Market Street. Any Dinah,
anything else in the works. Yougot anything else you want to maybe break
anything? I got nothing, Igot nothing to break. I got new
restaurants, I got a lot ofthings in the air. Were just gotta
see what's gonna stick. Awesome.I love it, dude. Thanks,
dude, I guess you're thanks.