Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Carl Chin, the president of the Faith Based Security Network.
I appreciate you taking time to come on this morning.
It's important work that you do, and unfortunately it's tied
to NonStop what feels like NonStop tragedy.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, yeah, that's if not NonStop, it's certainly far too frequent.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
And as I was promoting you this morning that you'd
be on and what you do. You know, as a
guy who went to Catholic school, you know, a Catholic
school kid at heart, you know, reading the measures that
I have here that institutions could urgently implement, and you
know they're great, it's heartbreaking. I think of the church
(00:49):
that I you know, my parish when I was a kid,
and thinking of the clergy. We won't be here today.
We're going to be getting trained, We're going to be
having drills, thinking about reinforcing building entry points and these beautiful,
you know, houses of worship. It's heartbreaking. But as I
put it, I guess necessary it is.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
It is. There's there's in my mind, there's no question. Uh.
You know, we've we've seen attacks on all kinds of
places increase through the years, over the past several decades
and for several of those years, the churches and the
faith based organizations were saying, Oh, it won't happen here.
(01:33):
I mean, we've got a cross on our roof and
a nice scripture under our sign, and God will protect us.
And you know, I often refer to the sixth chapter
of Matthew Denny where Jesus told us not to worry
about what we eat, drink and wear. But I've never
met anybody that sets up in the morning and closed
(01:56):
fall down on them. We still have to be intentional
about the management and procurement of the things we eat,
drink and wear. And security is the same way. I
do believe God protects us, but I do believe as
well that it takes some intentionality on our part.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
You know, as I was describing the scene again, in
so many ways, I'm just repeating myself. But the fact
that you know, this twenty three year old didn't come
through the doors and head for the pews. The firing
came right through the windows. And I'm thinking of that
beautiful stained glass that you know, as a little kid,
(02:37):
you drift off and you stare at the glass, and yeah,
is your suggest is one of your suggestions? You know,
as the president of the faith based Security network to
make that beautiful glass, you know, make it bulletproof.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
No, interesting, No, it's not. What I urge churches of
all kinds to do is to be intentional about watching,
to have people that are stationed ready to act and
are there to prevent something, to respond to something. You know,
(03:22):
we've studied these attacks at faith based organizations, and it
may surprise some of your listeners to learn that in
twenty two years of that study, and this is the
stuff that doesn't hit the news, Anny, we have documented
(03:43):
two thousand, three hundred and sixty one cases of deadly
forced violence at faith based organizations between nineteen ninety nine
and the end of twenty twenty one. Two thousand, three
hundred and sixty one. Very very few of those had
(04:04):
this type of attack where he's shooting inside from the outside. Now,
one thing to keep in mind on this particular killer
is he was an absolute copycat. He studied Brevic, the
Norway killer, he studied others, He referenced them on the
(04:29):
ridiculous notes that he wrote on all of his firearms.
He was a copycat, and then copying what happened at
Sutherland Springs, Texas on November fifth, twenty seventeen. In that case,
the killer shot through the walls and windows, but primarily
(04:52):
through the walls of the church as people were setting inside,
and killed twenty six people.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I mean, it's a coward thing that it's a cowardly
act just to walk through the doors of people in prayer,
sitting in pews, never mind, you know, classrooms. It's a
cowardly act. But from outside, through windows and through walls,
that's twice as cowardly. It's just the epitome of cowardly.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, it's cowardly to kill another human being period, Well,
true enough, but to shoot at children from the age
of pre k through eighth grade setting in mass is despicable.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I agree, and through the glass too. So tell me
more about fbs n's mission.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
What we are as we are a professional membership association okay,
of those in this country through work to protect their
faith based organizations and the law enforcement officers who support
that mission. So we've got just under a thousand members
(06:07):
in forty seven states now, and the membership helped each other.
It's members helping members. We believe in collective acumen more
than single opinions, you know, And I and some of
the others in this are experienced in this. We've seen
(06:30):
the shots and the blood and the death in church.
We've experienced. Others haven't. But we all come together to
share our experiences with others so that they can protect
their churches and their faith based organization schools, et cetera better.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And how long has FBSN How long have you been around?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Well, I got introduced to this whole world of security
and faith based organizations in nineteen ninety six. I wanted
nothing to do with security prior to that, and I
didn't think it was that big of a deal until
a gunman walked into our ministry one day and took hostages,
(07:18):
and I was one of the hostages. And that was
a focus on the family's headquarters, doctor James Dobson's headquarters
in Colorado Springs, Colorado, And that incident changed my life.
It reached up the course of my life, and I've
been studying this and helping others prepare ever since. And
(07:40):
then I was at a church in two thousand and seven,
serving at my home church when a killer came there
and killed two people in the parking lot before our
team met him in the hallway. And stopped him with
deadly force. And through those experiences I went on to
establish the Faith Based Security Network in August of twenty sixteen.
(08:05):
So it's kind of there's a lot of answers to
that question. How long have you been doing that?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Do you? I didn't know what to say there to that.
Traumatized twice or blessed twice, I don't know which it is.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, I say it called twice.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
And you know, I've never bought into the victim mentality.
I'm not a victim. I just happened to have a
front row seat at two of the primary incidents that
launched this discussion of faith based security, which was you know,
(08:46):
we didn't hear the term church security too much in
the twentieth century. It really wasn't in that until after
two thousand, but the term began to be even used.
So I've been with the I call it a great endeavor.
I've been with this great endeavor since nineteen ninety six
(09:11):
and watching it grow, and we're trying to do our
best to help others know how to do the right
thing the right way.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
It's God's work. It kind of goes without saying. The
website is Fbsnamerica dot com,
Carl Chin, the president of the Faith Based Security Network.
I appreciate you taking time to come on this morning.
It's important work that you do, and unfortunately it's tied
to NonStop what feels like NonStop tragedy.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, yeah, that's if not NonStop, it's certainly far too frequent.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
And as I was promoting you this morning that you'd
be on and what you do. You know, as a
guy who went to Catholic school, you know, a Catholic
school kid at heart, you know, reading the measures that
I have here that institutions could urgently implement, and you
know they're great, it's heartbreaking. I think of the church
(00:49):
that I you know, my parish when I was a kid,
and thinking of the clergy. We won't be here today.
We're going to be getting trained, We're going to be
having drills, thinking about reinforcing building entry points and these beautiful,
you know, houses of worship. It's heartbreaking. But as I
put it, I guess necessary it is.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
It is. There's there's in my mind, there's no question. Uh.
You know, we've we've seen attacks on all kinds of
places increase through the years, over the past several decades
and for several of those years, the churches and the
faith based organizations were saying, Oh, it won't happen here.
(01:33):
I mean, we've got a cross on our roof and
a nice scripture under our sign, and God will protect us.
And you know, I often refer to the sixth chapter
of Matthew Denny where Jesus told us not to worry
about what we eat, drink and wear. But I've never
met anybody that sets up in the morning and closed
(01:56):
fall down on them. We still have to be intentional
about the management and procurement of the things we eat,
drink and wear. And security is the same way. I
do believe God protects us, but I do believe as
well that it takes some intentionality on our part.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
You know, as I was describing the scene again, in
so many ways, I'm just repeating myself. But the fact
that you know, this twenty three year old didn't come
through the doors and head for the pews. The firing
came right through the windows. And I'm thinking of that
beautiful stained glass that you know, as a little kid,
(02:37):
you drift off and you stare at the glass, and yeah,
is your suggest is one of your suggestions? You know,
as the president of the faith based Security network to
make that beautiful glass, you know, make it bulletproof.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
No, interesting, No, it's not. What I urge churches of
all kinds to do is to be intentional about watching,
to have people that are stationed ready to act and
are there to prevent something, to respond to something. You know,
(03:22):
we've studied these attacks at faith based organizations, and it
may surprise some of your listeners to learn that in
twenty two years of that study, and this is the
stuff that doesn't hit the news, Anny, we have documented
(03:43):
two thousand, three hundred and sixty one cases of deadly
forced violence at faith based organizations between nineteen ninety nine
and the end of twenty twenty one. Two thousand, three
hundred and sixty one. Very very few of those had
(04:04):
this type of attack where he's shooting inside from the outside. Now,
one thing to keep in mind on this particular killer
is he was an absolute copycat. He studied Brevic, the
Norway killer, he studied others, He referenced them on the
(04:29):
ridiculous notes that he wrote on all of his firearms.
He was a copycat, and then copying what happened at
Sutherland Springs, Texas on November fifth, twenty seventeen. In that case,
the killer shot through the walls and windows, but primarily
(04:52):
through the walls of the church as people were setting inside,
and killed twenty six people.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I mean, it's a coward thing that it's a cowardly
act just to walk through the doors of people in prayer,
sitting in pews, never mind, you know, classrooms. It's a
cowardly act. But from outside, through windows and through walls,
that's twice as cowardly. It's just the epitome of cowardly.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, it's cowardly to kill another human being period, Well,
true enough, but to shoot at children from the age
of pre k through eighth grade setting in mass is despicable.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I agree, and through the glass too. So tell me
more about fbs n's mission.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
What we are as we are a professional membership association okay,
of those in this country through work to protect their
faith based organizations and the law enforcement officers who support
that mission. So we've got just under a thousand members
(06:07):
in forty seven states now, and the membership helped each other.
It's members helping members. We believe in collective acumen more
than single opinions, you know, And I and some of
the others in this are experienced in this. We've seen
(06:30):
the shots and the blood and the death in church.
We've experienced. Others haven't. But we all come together to
share our experiences with others so that they can protect
their churches and their faith based organization schools, et cetera better.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And how long has FBSN How long have you been around?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Well, I got introduced to this whole world of security
and faith based organizations in nineteen ninety six. I wanted
nothing to do with security prior to that, and I
didn't think it was that big of a deal until
a gunman walked into our ministry one day and took hostages,
(07:18):
and I was one of the hostages. And that was
a focus on the family's headquarters, doctor James Dobson's headquarters
in Colorado Springs, Colorado, And that incident changed my life.
It reached up the course of my life, and I've
been studying this and helping others prepare ever since. And
(07:40):
then I was at a church in two thousand and seven,
serving at my home church when a killer came there
and killed two people in the parking lot before our
team met him in the hallway. And stopped him with
deadly force. And through those experiences I went on to
establish the Faith Based Security Network in August of twenty sixteen.
(08:05):
So it's kind of there's a lot of answers to
that question. How long have you been doing that?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Do you? I didn't know what to say there to that.
Traumatized twice or blessed twice, I don't know which it is.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, I say it called twice.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
And you know, I've never bought into the victim mentality.
I'm not a victim. I just happened to have a
front row seat at two of the primary incidents that
launched this discussion of faith based security, which was you know,
(08:46):
we didn't hear the term church security too much in
the twentieth century. It really wasn't in that until after
two thousand, but the term began to be even used.
So I've been with the I call it a great endeavor.
I've been with this great endeavor since nineteen ninety six
(09:11):
and watching it grow, and we're trying to do our
best to help others know how to do the right
thing the right way.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
It's God's work. It kind of goes without saying. The
website is Fbsnamerica dot com,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.