GEOFFREY GILSON Swings 'Maggie's Hammer' At Tyler Robinson

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Mister Gilson. Hell, how are you, sir? Welcome to the
Vinnie Penn Project.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
I appreciate you taking the time to come on, Jeffrey
Gilson once, this is unbelievable. This is actually unbelievable to me.
Once a speech writer for Margaret Thatcher herself, and a
seasoned attorney as well. That's quite the resume there. I
appreciate you take it. How do you spend your days nowadays, sir?

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Well, I'm reasonably happily retired a writing accurent.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
I went back to college late in life and spent
the last seven years getting some degrees, so I have
a little bit of a take on what life is
like on college campus, which is what inspired me to
apply the lessons I've learned in life too. What's been
going on so sadly with Charlie Kirk?

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Sure? Well, and of course you know a thing or
two about investigating mysterious deaths yourself, although there's not much
mystery here and we can't rely on the media necessarily
to give us everything that I think we need, not
even deserve, but need to know. As far as this

(01:12):
Tyler Robinson, who they did get a lot of questions
still abound as far as the murder of Charlie kirkus concern.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
What is your take on it, sir, Well, it's very difficult, Vinny,
and we obviously don't have much time to be able
to investigate all of this, which you're right, there is
this connection. In my mind.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
I spent thirty years investigating the death of my close
friend and political mentor, Hughes Summons in England. He died
in November nineteen eighty eight. I chronicle all of that
in my book Maggie's Hammer, and it turns out that
he was engaged in a huge operation in Great Britain,
laundering money for illegal arms sales abroad, big political connections.

(02:00):
Too much into that. What I will get into is
I was an ordinary person in a small town to
the west of London. His death to me didn't make sense.
And if you're going to investigate sensibly any death it's mysterious,
you have to have a starting point with you. It
didn't make sense. Attitude between whether it was a murder
or a suicide, and the establishment story of suicide didn't

(02:22):
make sense. With Charlie Kirk The establishment stories beginning to
coalesce around Tyler Robinson some radicalized transgender friends. They killed
Charlie Kirk. Is that the end of it? It could
well be the end of it, Vinny. The problem I
have utilizing the principles they used in Maggie Samma was

(02:42):
the proficiency of the operation itself. I am still struck
with all of the videos of this man in black
getting onto a campus, getting onto a roof, taking one shot.
It's a kill shot from one hundred and fifty yards.
I understand, he gets off the roof, he leaves the campus.
Seven years on a campus. You don't get onto roofs

(03:04):
that easily. You don't wander around campus in a dark,
glasses in with bags without being stopped by some sort
of security. There are cameras everywhere, and this next point
may be something that I simply have a misunderstanding about technically,
but everyone keeps talking about this video of this black

(03:25):
clad man leaving the site of the shooting, walking along
the roof and clambering down and moving off. I don't
know much about CCTV cameras, so maybe I'm completely wrong here.
In some of different radio shack or whatever will tell
me differently. But why is the camera panning CCTV cameras,
to me, are static. I've never heard of a CCTV

(03:48):
camera panning and this as an individual behind it. That's
a question. That's my starting point. It's not an answer,
it's a starting point. You have to have a starting point.
The next thing you have to do is collect information.
And here, Vinnie, we have all done ourselves at his service.
We have too many of us left to political conclusions

(04:10):
and then worked back. I had to learn this the
hard way because I was involved in the emotion of
the moment with my friend Hugh Summons. You have to
put the emotion aside. You have to look at the
information you've got. You have to be clear about when
it is fact and when it is presented by someone else,
and therefore secondhand and everything that you and I know

(04:31):
is second hand because we're not in the room with
Vinnie Robinson, we're not in his head, we're not in
the office with Charactertel and others. We are being fed
information and we don't know whether it's true, or whether
it's profitaganda, or whether it's slanted. But we have to
work with what we have. The next thing you do
is you build up a picture and you ask yourself,
does it make sense, does it have a ring of truth?

(04:53):
And then who benefits? Those are the questions you have
to keep asking yourself religiously in terms of what's happening
with the death of Charlie Kirk, what I will say,
and maybe I'm going out on a limb. Here is
has it yesterday with the release of these allegedly genuine
text messages amongst a group of people talking about and

(05:18):
death and hasn't yet occurred with a specific date, that
by definition makes the a conspiracy. End of it is
not one person, It's more than one person. Next question
is is it these people who undertook the assassination? I'm
going to go out on another limb. Thirty years of
investigating assassinations. Political organizations, political individuals do not commit assassination.

(05:43):
People with military and intelligence backgrounds commit assassinations. They may
well use false flags, they may well use fronts, but
political organizations do not commit assassinations. Antifa that I was
involved with the Occupy movement in twoy twelve. I met
the people who organize Antifa and anarchists nationally. Some of

(06:06):
them great senses of humor, but they engage in mass destruction,
mass destruction. They don't lead from the front. They need
from behind. They would never get involved in a one
on one political assassination. It's not what they do. And
I'm going to stop for a second opinion and say
this is what I say from thirty years of experience.

(06:26):
I may be wrong, but what people need to do
is actually research on to discuss and get facts and
hold them to the light of possibility, not just engage
in political speculation. I'm not sure how much time we have.
I'm going to leap to the end and then if
we have time, will come forward again. I do believe
Arlo Robinson was involved. I don't believe he necessarily. He

(06:50):
is the man in black shown on the videos. This
is too proficient. Maybe he was proficient enough. I don't know.
I believe he was radicalized in a few months before
he died into hating Charlie Kirk and wanting to do something.
I think there was a group of friends around him
who encouraged him. But I believe that behind a there

(07:11):
was a more sinister entity, and it is that entity
that did the planning. It may well have been that
entity that did the execution. And of all the possibilities
that are out there, The one that strikes me is
most possible is some entity that is deniable associated with
Israeli intelligence. Not because Charlie Kirk was talking about Gaza.

(07:32):
Donald Trump has come out and said he's unhappy with
what Israel is doing in Gaza. It comes back. I
hate to say this to my book, Maggie's Hammer, it
is because Epstein was involved with Mossad and that's what
Charlie Kirk was talking about. An Israeli intelligent entity. However,
Deniable would not take out Charlie Kirk because of Gaza.

(07:55):
But there is too much how our play and influence
involved in the arms dealing and the money laundering activities
of Epstein in London in the eighties and coming forward,
which also involved the subject of Mina mc hugh summons.
There is too much to allow that to continue. To
allow someone of Charlie Coach's stature to talk about other

(08:16):
people associated with trying to expose what I've just talked
about have also ended up dead, including Diana, Princess of Wales.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
You know, it's difficult to listen to a lot of
what you said right there, and again it's Jeffrey Gilson
appreciate no, no, I appreciate. No, I'm heading towards somewhere
and along with a lot of other people, but maybe
no one more than you. There's a lot of different conversations,
conversations that I've had that it's hard not to think

(08:47):
of Lee Harvey. There are shades of Lee Harvey in
this at times, and.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
You want absolutely and it's it.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Feels a little irresponsible of me to you know, I'm
a radio guy to put out there, but like I want,
I wonder when this guy, not if, but when Tyler
gets silenced, because much like Lee Harvey once, like, it
can't be found out. You were the fall guy for this. Yeah,
you pulled the trigger, you did the job, but you

(09:15):
did it you were a hired hand.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
I think, Vinnie, that's absolutely true. It's ironic because I
was shaving this morning and I stopped shaving her. I said, well,
of course, this is all very interesting. We'll find out
the truth and the trial. The first word to enter
my mind was Oswald. Well, I should imagine right now
the most difficult job in the United States of America
is keeping him alive.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, yes, I mean, which begs the question, then who's
the Jack Ruby? You know, have we gotten anywhere in
the last sixty some odd years that know, a Jack
Ruby can't pull it off a second time. I don't know.
I'd like to think we've come a long way since then,

(10:02):
but some you know, then something like what happened to
Charlie kirk happens and you think now on we haven't
at all.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
No. I totally agree, And this is leaving aside the
human tragedy. I mean, I will share with you, Vinny.
I describe myself as a liberal American. That's where my
politics are. And I didn't agree with Charlie Kirklin very much,
but I admired him considerably because he was prepared to

(10:29):
engage with other people. And Vinny, if at the end
of the day, let's say, at the end of the day,
the trial has held and we determined conclusively that it
was Tyler Robinson and a few friends, and he just
happened to have eight put it like this a good day,
and managed to bring off one shot that was the
kill shot. There is a whole different conversation along the

(10:52):
line of the how can a small group of twenty
year olds do something like this? Do we have to
provide secret service details to every political surrogate in the country.
Do we have to make our college campuses concentration.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Camps with watchtowers?

Speaker 3 (11:08):
What if that is where we end up and it's
not something sinister, but it is something a small group
of twenty year olds, where are we?

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (11:17):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (11:17):
And that was another area that I felt uncomfortable speaking
to in this past week. But you know I did
even prior to this tragedy taking places. You know, I
admired what he did too. It took a lot of guts,
and he could have had a bigger I wouldn't have
done appearances the way he did them with just two

(11:38):
people he had. You know, he's in shorts and a
T shirt and under a tent. I do radio appearances
for a small time show in New Haven, Connecticut, and
I've got more people on it, and I've got a
bigger team than Charlie Kirk. But I think that's the way.
I think he wanted to be accessible too. But look

(12:00):
what it cost him.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Well.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
I remember one time listening to one of his videos
and he was saying, come to the mike place. You
know you're out there shouting no, you come to the mic.
He didn't ignore the guy who's searching in whatever. We've
had to do this because one or two people rushed
the stage and you know, now he's dead, and it's like, well,
why shouldn't he someone be able to go on the

(12:25):
campus with one person to keep the crazies away and
engage with students. Yes, what have we become if that
is no longer possible?

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (12:33):
I agree. I've really enjoyed the conversation. Again, it's Jeff Gilson.
The book is Maggie's Hammer. I'm intrigued. When did that
come out?

Speaker 3 (12:43):
Actually, this came out in twenty fifteen. I thought it
was pretty much and I thought it was pretty much
an end to it. But so much of what I've
written about then, and I've been carrying it forward, following
the people and the money, so much of it has
come to the present, and names like Robert Maxwell not
killing Robert Maxwell are now being talked about. And I
was talking about this ten years ago. So little plug

(13:06):
well worked buying its irrelevant book.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Oh absolutely happy to plug it and to stay in
touch too.