November 3, 2024 • 25 mins
Jonathan Ogilvie began his creative journey in the post-punk music scene of Christchurch, producing moody music videos for Flying Nun bands like The Jean-Paul Sartre Experience and Headless Chickens. His iconic 1987 video for Straitjacket Fits' "She Speeds," filmed on a truck in the Lyttelton tunnel, was made for just $250. After earning a Bachelor of Arts from Canterbury University, Ogilvie worked in special effects on Kubrick’s Full Metal Jacket before graduating from the Australian Film, Television and Radio School in the early 1990s.
Ogilvie's early career included directing music videos for Australian bands and commercials, along with award-nominated videos for Headless Chickens.
In 2024, Ogilvie's fourth feature, Head South, premiered at the International Film Festival in Rotterdam. The film reflects his roots in the late 1970s Christchurch music scene. As a long-time directing teacher at the Australian Film, Television, and Radio School, he also contributes as a reader and assessor for the New South Wales Film and Television Office.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed be
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real Life with John Cowen
on News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Today. Welcome to real life. Two things that most New
Zealanders like kiwis who become internationally successful and see New
Zealand reflected back to themselves on screen, so I know
you'll enjoy my guest tonight, filmmaker Jonathan Ogilvy. Welcome Jonathan,
Thank you, John.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Delighted to be here and congratulations on your fourth feature film.
Thank you very much. I'm just so thrilled to finally
get it out in cinemas in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I guess it's a long gestation from when you first
think of it and make it and then then see
it flickering on a screen.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
As a writer director, sometimes my screenwriting students ask me,
when did you first have the idea for this? And
I don't dare say how far back in time that was.
I mean, in the case of this one, we're talking
forty years because it's set in nineteen seventy nine. So
you know, these things percolate through your mind and then
you finally they take form in the screenplay.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Right now, the film's called Head South, and it's said
in your in your hometown of christ Church in nineteen
seventy nine, and you say it is autobiographical to some extent.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, OTATAI christ just nineteen seventy nine. It's as I
like to say when I introduced the film, everything that
you're about to see happened. Most of it happened to me.
And it's one of those rare things, of course, with
true life, is that the most unlikely things are the
things that actually happened, and the other stuff is is
(02:00):
maybe added on to joining up a little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Okay, Now, it's set around the punk rock or post
punk rock scene in that area, and that got your
heart beating.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
It did, it did, and I'm fond of it. I
know a lot of people don't see any distinction between
punk and post punk, but for me at the time,
it was punk rock came along and it sounded a
bit like pub rock to me. Fast played fast. As
these new bands came along and they were people talk
about punk being three chords and they couldn't play their instruments.
(02:31):
In my ears, they could play their instruments incredibly well
and much better than I could ever hope to play them.
But then this post punk came along, and genuinely it
was young people picking up instruments for the first time.
That's where it for me, it got very interested because
I started hearing a band like Public Image and kind
of understanding and thinking I could actually maybe do something
like this. It's not beyond the realms that I could
(02:54):
start a band, and that's what was so exciting about
that time.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And so the hero of your film, and you yourself,
you picked up a guitar and started playing.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I picked up a bass, Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
But I was thinking very much as I watched the
young protagonist picking up his guitar and basically learning on
stage as he was playing. A friend of mine played
for a band called Suburban Reptiles, one of the first
punk rock groups, and he's he basically learned to play
the saxophone while while performing on stage. You didn't have
(03:28):
a clue, but it didn't seem to matter too much.
There was a fairly low bar.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah. Well, Martin Chockash, who plays the father Gordon, says
at some time when he says he's playing playing a
gig or a show. He says, that's a bit quick,
isn't it. Aren't you supposed to learn to play first?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Perhaps perhaps we've bet to flesh out a little bit
more about what the film's about.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yees. So it's young boy Angus who's left for a
fortnight with his very well weary father. The mother's sort
of taken off for reasons a bit obscure, leaving, leaving
the father a bit bereft and having to sort of
have awkward conversations with his son. Meanwhile, son bumbles into
(04:14):
the world of that was an underground world of post
punk at the time, in this exciting world, and through
a number of deceits, gets himself in hotter and hotter
water to the point where he has to actually become
the musician that he pretended to be.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
No boy can't. The boy can't tell the truth to
save himself. He's lying about being in a band or
being able to play, and lies about whether something's marijuana
or not. He's fibbing all over the place. I hope
that aspect wasn't too buder biographical.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Well, you know, it's a desperate it's desperate time. Most teenagers,
I'm sure most of us as teenagers will remember desperately
trying to be cool, you know, and you know, the
means justifies the end to some extent in terms of
that pursuit.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, it's one of those things where you agonize with
the young man as he's you know, struggling with self esteem,
straggling to impress people, failing miserably in some in some
respects and things, and then basically, you know, getting getting there.
Other characters in the in the movie, like the dad
is a real hero. Actually, I know, he's out of
(05:27):
step with the current times and everything, and he's struggling
with his own marriage breakup, but he comes across he
comes across as a bit of a hero as he's
trying to set the boundaries, trying to be loving, not
understanding what's going on. But and but you know, does
(05:47):
he resonate with your own dad?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah. We had this discussion. Martin Chokosh, who plays who
plays the dad, We had the discussion early on that
we didn't want to go down the road necessary of
the bad dad, which was a bit bit of a
film stereotype where everything kind of blamed on this tyrannical dad,
And you're right, the guy is actually kind of trying
(06:11):
to set the boundaries. To me, it's it's all parents
will understand this. You pat yourself into corners, you know,
by setting boundaries, and it's really you end up putting
down laying down rules that you don't necessarily agree with,
but you feel like you have to. And for me,
the key clue for that character is at a point
(06:31):
in the film, he says to Angus, you can't go
out on a Sunday night, school night to see a band.
And then Angus sneaks out and Gordon's watching actually Scott
of the Antarctic on television, and he hears his son
go out, and he just just a smirk goes across
his face, very subtle, but he actually approves that his
(06:54):
son's sneaking out.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Right. Yeah, no, both as memories of a teenager and
being a dad, I can sort of understand that that
idea of we wanting to do the best, were not
too sure what it is and all so feeling sort
of culturally separated from our children.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
But yeah, for me writing it, writing it now and
older than the character, I was able to see it
from both points of view because because it's like, you know,
if I've written it if I've made this film then
I was much younger, probably would have been all from
the point of view of Angus. And then you write it,
(07:32):
and then you go, actually, the Dad has a point,
you know, so you start to It makes a nice
dynamic between the two of them because it almost becomes
a debating topic. Argue for and against should Angus go
to the show on a Sunday night on a school note?
Argue four and against? And so you get both of
them going because and they both the characters are strengthened
(07:54):
for that reason that you're able to play them both.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Well. You've got these strong characters, You've got the strong
theme of music. You've also got the strong theme of
christ Church and that particular particular era christ Church. And
I'm sure Cantabrians are going to love seeing the city
portrayed like this. So, I mean, even though it does
look a little bit grim in places and everything, the
(08:19):
idea of that pre earthquake christ Church, I'm sure clothes
in the hearts of Cantabrians. You must feel a strong
nostalgia for the place, even though you've lived away from
it a long time.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I do. It's one of those places that kind of
pulls you back at the truth of it. And of
course I'm biased, but I would suggest that it's a
bit overdetermined how much christ Church has contributed to the
culture of New Zealand as a wholes A lot of
and that might be because of very active university and
(08:52):
art school there, but it contributes a lot. Len Lai,
who's my film hero as far as I'm concerned that,
you know, one of the greatest film directors and certainly
out of New Zealand. You know, he grew up in
christ Church and that's the starting point of it. There's
all these real interesting for me growing up there. It
was full of ideas and that's that's really what I
(09:16):
wanted to capture, this idea that the music was aklathonic
gateway into the world of ideas and the world of
ideas being art, literature, all this stuff that opens up,
and particularly at that time time, people playing the music
were interested, were well read. You know, you would read
(09:38):
something and you'd read about you'd learn about Albert Camu
or you'd read about Eski through the lyrics of some songs,
and then you go and discover them and your world
would be opened up.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
It's amazing that they went out of their way to
look like they were sleeping under a bridge, but natural fact,
they probably came from good homes and were well educated
and thinking about stuff like this.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, to my mind, all the best bands were formed
at art school. Yep.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
And you hit it off the art school yourself or
was that not quite?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Not quite? I did a BA at the University of Canterbury.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Okay. But my guest tonight is Jonathan Ogilvie, who's just
released a new movie. We've been talking about that, but
we're going to talk a bit more about his career
after this break. This is real Life. I'm John Cowen.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
This is News Talks ed B Intelligent interviews with interesting people.
It's real life on News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Welcome back to real life. My guest tonight Jonathan Ogilvy filmmaker.
And what are we listening to there?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
We're listening to YFC featuring Estella Bennett otherwise known as Benny.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Right and that and that song is from the movie itself.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
That song is the closing song of the film.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
All Right, Head South. We were talking about the movie
that you've just released and interested that the backing band
is y OFC. You were part of that band, it was.
And interestingly we interviewed Ian Grant a while ago, who
headed up You for Christ in New Zealand, and apparently
he wasn't too keen on you using that name.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
No, it was we made the Sunday papers on that
because he didn't even even in the acronym. He wasn't
that keen on that we were using it. And yes,
that was probably the most Yeah, if you want to
be famous, get yourself banned. We almost got ourselves banned,
and we got into the Sunday paper that saying it.
(11:52):
It's an interesting article because it's me saying we need
we're neither atheists or agnostics, but we don't tend to
tend to change the name. I was very forthright about that.
The funny thing is, although Grant now in Norway and
Michael Daily, the drummer, now lives in christ Church and
(12:12):
nine eleven, Sydney, we never officially broke up. So the
band still plays and we're threatening to release a record
d out of Christmas, but we don't know which Christmas
that will be.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Oh well, I'll have to contact Dan Grunt and see
if he still wants to protest about you. But so
you were actually called Youth for Christ at the start too,
weren't you? And then I think you change it to
Youth for Youth from Christ Church or something just to
avoid too much legal backlash. It was obviously tongue in
(12:45):
cheek with the Christian organization. Wife. See you said you
weren't atheists or agnostic. Is there a spiritual dimension to yourself?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Well, there is. I'm very Catholic with my spiritualism. And
when I say Catholic, I mean Catholic the in lower
case rather than upper case, the universal sense, the universal
sense where I don't actually prioritie as any particular belief systems.
But for me, spiritualism comes down to the belief that
(13:15):
that there is another world beyond our physical world. And
I think most most people, certainly certainly artists and authors
like to believe that because it gives fuel for they
write about. And I think it's I think most people, actually,
unless the most cynical person, likes to believe that there
(13:39):
is there is a world beyond beyond our physical world.
And the film certainly deals with that dimension. Is that
I'm interested in that? In that I was just thinking
about have you have you been to the Sistine Chapel.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
John, No, but I've seen pictures of it.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah. So the famous one, of course, is is God
touching the finger of Adam? And what treagues me about this?
When you see it, it's very obvious. But the shroud
behind God is in the shape of the human brain,
complete with a brain stem of green that drops behind it,
(14:19):
which is quite extraordinary, and I think Michaelangelo, I'm surprised
that the Pope allowed Michaelangelo to actually do that, to
be able to draw that, because it is suggesting somehow
or other, if God doesn't exist, man needs or mankind
needs needs God to exist, which is an interesting idea.
But this idea of another, of another world beyond the
(14:43):
existing Lord intrigues me. Yes, I'm very much drawn to that.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Okay, are there any books or authors or philosophical frameworks
that have influenced you and that you take have taken
on board and thought, Yeah, that resonates with the ideas
that I've already come up with.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Well. In fact, Nick Cave is moving towards spiritual increasingly so.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
And I think by the way he liked your band,
didn't he He.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Didn't like that A fan of him look a lot
of you know, whether they like it or not. Stephen Hawkins,
you know when a Brief History of Time he talks
about God, you know it's not and it's it's a
shorthand for for for what he talks about. So I
(15:31):
think it's it's as I say, I'm not I'm a
very Catholic in the approach, but I'm not not dismissive.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Now back to your story and how you got into film.
You mentioned you had did the b a at at
christ Church and where'd you head after that?
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I went off to the big trip to New York,
or drove across across the country to New York and
did a short course film course there at the at
the University of A School of Visual Arts, and then
landed in London after that as you do, and went
to the job center job sent I said, Oh, I'd
(16:09):
like a job. I've been moving furniture in New York.
I'd like a job driving a van. I can do that. Also,
if there's any jobs going on a film set, I'd
love to do that. Of course, the guy laughed at me,
but as it happened he caught me on the weekends.
It actually there's a job painting Wardrobes on this film
in Elephant and Castle. They ended up being Death Wished three,
(16:31):
a terrible film.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
From that, I'm happy to say I missed it.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah you did, but you're very lucky. From that, I
managed to get on to Stanley Kubrick's for medal jacket.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
That's quite a leap from driving furniture vans or whatever
to working with Stanley Kubrick. You actually got within spitting
distance of them.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
I did, In fact, I did very much, so I'm
hard to believe now, but he pulled me out and
now was the model for the haircuts of the of
the young soldiers at the time, and he was. It
was funny because he was he was a recluse then,
and we were we'd be. I was working with a
special effects apartment. We were drilling holes to foot bullet hits,
and and this old geezer kept coming around in a
(17:16):
in an army jacket, and I said, who's that guy
that keeps coming and watching what we're doing. Oh, that's
the director. Stanley Kubrick went, oh, okay, that's what he
looks like.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Now it's a story, it's possibly apocryphal. I'm not too
sure that doing special effects and movies. You burnt off
some lead actor's eyebrows.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Martin, Matthew Modine's yes, and that was that was the
time I almost got fired by Stanley Kubrick. In fact, yes,
I had a smoke machine. The Terry Needham actually, who
originally from Wellington was the first a d and he
was waving as a gas firebar in front of my
smoke machine, and the smoke was so hot that it
(17:57):
became a flamethrower straight straight into the face of poor
Matthew Modin and bird off his eyebrows. And then Stanley's
going to my boss. He's going John whose name was
John as well, John, why did you let that happen?
And John Evans said, well, this is why I don't
like to rush stings Stanley. You know, because we're shooting.
(18:19):
We're shooting magic our, which is there's only magic. How
is the perfect time to shoot? There's no lights and
Kubrick always had quite small crews, and there's no it's
no artificial lighting. It's all natural lighting. But it's a
window that you can shoot, and so we're rushing around
doing all these shots. Anyway, I managed to stay. He didn't,
he didn't fire me. So I managed to stay and
(18:39):
he gave me a bottle of Glenn Felick for Christmas,
which was very nice.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Well that's good. I'm sure a bottle of single malt
says that you're forgiven and you could carry on in
your career. You made a lot of music videos and
I watched some of them. Had great fun, and it's
even more fun knowing that you did them on on
a shoe string budget, not shoot shot on bootlace film.
(19:04):
It was they had a great fun look to them.
Must have been a lot of fun to make.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
They were, and part of part of my approach with
Head South was to try and capture that sixteen mil
DIY look where you tape splice and sometimes you do it,
it's and you couldn't. You couldn't get rid of the
splice in the in the image, and it doesn't matter
how many times you cut it. And of course it's
reversal films. Every time you cut you're actually losing. It's
(19:31):
not negative, you actually lose the image every time you
do it. So there's a certain strajag efits she Speeds
as an example, where there's a shot of Chaine Carter
close up and there's a line that I could never
get out of.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
That's okay, that's the one where they're racing through the tunnel.
That's true, and it's and didn't they nearly freeze to
death doing that?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
It certainly looks like it doesn't. It does. The end
the childer my spine now to look at it, because
they're on an open trailer with no sort of safety whatsoever.
The idea that we're even allowed to do it surprises me,
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Probably you were allowed to do it, probably so you've
done now several films phill length movies and living in Australia.
Australia is an environment that cultivates movie culture better than
New Zealand, you.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Find, I actually don't find that. And it's very interesting
where now at a point cinema. Cinema was the greatest
art form of the twentieth century. Whether it's going to
be the great from the twenty first century, I'm not sure.
What I'm inspired by is that New Zealanders seem to
want to watch New Zealand stories, which I'm certainly hoping
(20:50):
that they will be drawn to this story because I
think it's really important that we fight against the idea
that America is colonizing our imaginations with all the Hollywood
films that come in. We need to be able to
be telling our own stories and that's actually getting harder
and harder to do.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Do you see it having a an international appeal? You've
shown this movie in Copenhagen and other places. Do they
actually get it? Do they actually? I mean they won't
know what Lane's emulsion is, by the way, I was
greatly stirred by seeing Lane's emulsion on a shelf in
that film, like a taste it in my mouth. But well,
(21:28):
people in Copenhagen, do they actually get this?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yes, there's a thing called hyper local, which is incredible.
It opened the Rotterdam Film Festival to a long standing
ovation fifteen hundred seater cinema. It's been playing in the
Netherlands since then, which is nine months. It's been playing
in Spain for the same time. People get it and
it's a weird thing. But the more specific you get
(21:52):
with a film world, somehow, the more universal it is.
Somehow we want to see things that are specific. So yes,
you're absolutely right, nothing about Lane's emulsion. Probably lucky for
them they can have something else, but they respond to it.
They respond to it in a big way because at
the end of the day, it's about a young person
(22:14):
finding themselves.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Right. Okay, musicians that you've got a lot of music
in the movie. Musicians keen to be part of the project.
Did you ring up your old mates in the music
industry or how did that work?
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yeah? Exactly. So Shane Carter has done the original soundtrack
and Shane of course from strat Jaga Fitz goes back
to the video for Sheet Speeds that we've been talking about.
So he was a great starting point. I wanted to
do a soundtrack that started in guitar and sort of
moved from that to process guitar rather than orchestral. So
(22:51):
keep the soundtrack close to the actual music that you're hearing.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Can I ask you what's next? What's next in the pipeline?
What's coming up for Jonathan Ogilvie.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Yeah, I have The g Bun Darts Club, which is
an old school heist film with some darts thrown in
septagenarian cast which I'm hoping to hope to grab some
household names from New Zealand and from Australia to make
that film.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Well, that sounds like there's going to be a lot
of fun. Yeah, And I think that'll be quite inspiring
to people of my age to think that we might
have a career ahead of us in bank robbery exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
I'm trying to make darts to new golf as well.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Oh well, you're already working to revive punk, and so
here you are reviving darts as well. You might have
quite a profound influence on culture. And is this something
you've written yourself as well?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Yes, it is. It's not something that's I've been intrigued
about for some time, and it all came about by
a mishearing. Someone said, this is a mishearing a script
about a bank robbery by some twenty somethings and some
miss hurd it and said some seventy somethings, and no,
(24:08):
but that would be a good idea for a film.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Reminds me the old Monty Python sketch of the little
old ladies beating up young people on the streets. But well,
all the best for that, and all the best for
Head South as it heads into cinemas. It's been great
talking with Jonathan Ogilvey, and make sure you catch Head South.
It's opening in cinemas from October thirty, first in New
(24:34):
Zealand and Jonathan fantastic talking to you and you will
go out another song you've picked, also by Benny What
are we going to be listening to?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Fam Fattelle written by Lou Reed.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Fantastic, great talking with you, Thanks for making time. This
is real life on news Talk z B. I'll look
forward to being back with you again next Sunday night.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Ms us the thing she does to this, She's just
a little.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Fit. See the way she walks.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
For more from News Talk set B. Listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed be
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real Life with John Cowen
on News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Today. Welcome to real life. Two things that most New
Zealanders like kiwis who become internationally successful and see New
Zealand reflected back to themselves on screen, so I know
you'll enjoy my guest tonight, filmmaker Jonathan Ogilvy. Welcome Jonathan,
Thank you, John.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Delighted to be here and congratulations on your fourth feature film.
Thank you very much. I'm just so thrilled to finally
get it out in cinemas in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I guess it's a long gestation from when you first
think of it and make it and then then see
it flickering on a screen.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
As a writer director, sometimes my screenwriting students ask me,
when did you first have the idea for this? And
I don't dare say how far back in time that was.
I mean, in the case of this one, we're talking
forty years because it's set in nineteen seventy nine. So
you know, these things percolate through your mind and then
you finally they take form in the screenplay.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Right now, the film's called Head South, and it's said
in your in your hometown of christ Church in nineteen
seventy nine, and you say it is autobiographical to some extent.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, OTATAI christ just nineteen seventy nine. It's as I
like to say when I introduced the film, everything that
you're about to see happened. Most of it happened to me.
And it's one of those rare things, of course, with
true life, is that the most unlikely things are the
things that actually happened, and the other stuff is is
(02:00):
maybe added on to joining up a little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Okay, Now, it's set around the punk rock or post
punk rock scene in that area, and that got your
heart beating.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
It did, it did, and I'm fond of it. I
know a lot of people don't see any distinction between
punk and post punk, but for me at the time,
it was punk rock came along and it sounded a
bit like pub rock to me. Fast played fast. As
these new bands came along and they were people talk
about punk being three chords and they couldn't play their instruments.
(02:31):
In my ears, they could play their instruments incredibly well
and much better than I could ever hope to play them.
But then this post punk came along, and genuinely it
was young people picking up instruments for the first time.
That's where it for me, it got very interested because
I started hearing a band like Public Image and kind
of understanding and thinking I could actually maybe do something
like this. It's not beyond the realms that I could
(02:54):
start a band, and that's what was so exciting about
that time.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And so the hero of your film, and you yourself,
you picked up a guitar and started playing.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I picked up a bass, Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
But I was thinking very much as I watched the
young protagonist picking up his guitar and basically learning on
stage as he was playing. A friend of mine played
for a band called Suburban Reptiles, one of the first
punk rock groups, and he's he basically learned to play
the saxophone while while performing on stage. You didn't have
(03:28):
a clue, but it didn't seem to matter too much.
There was a fairly low bar.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah. Well, Martin Chockash, who plays the father Gordon, says
at some time when he says he's playing playing a
gig or a show. He says, that's a bit quick,
isn't it. Aren't you supposed to learn to play first?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Perhaps perhaps we've bet to flesh out a little bit
more about what the film's about.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yees. So it's young boy Angus who's left for a
fortnight with his very well weary father. The mother's sort
of taken off for reasons a bit obscure, leaving, leaving
the father a bit bereft and having to sort of
have awkward conversations with his son. Meanwhile, son bumbles into
(04:14):
the world of that was an underground world of post
punk at the time, in this exciting world, and through
a number of deceits, gets himself in hotter and hotter
water to the point where he has to actually become
the musician that he pretended to be.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
No boy can't. The boy can't tell the truth to
save himself. He's lying about being in a band or
being able to play, and lies about whether something's marijuana
or not. He's fibbing all over the place. I hope
that aspect wasn't too buder biographical.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Well, you know, it's a desperate it's desperate time. Most teenagers,
I'm sure most of us as teenagers will remember desperately
trying to be cool, you know, and you know, the
means justifies the end to some extent in terms of
that pursuit.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, it's one of those things where you agonize with
the young man as he's you know, struggling with self esteem,
straggling to impress people, failing miserably in some in some
respects and things, and then basically, you know, getting getting there.
Other characters in the in the movie, like the dad
is a real hero. Actually, I know, he's out of
(05:27):
step with the current times and everything, and he's struggling
with his own marriage breakup, but he comes across he
comes across as a bit of a hero as he's
trying to set the boundaries, trying to be loving, not
understanding what's going on. But and but you know, does
(05:47):
he resonate with your own dad?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah. We had this discussion. Martin Chokosh, who plays who
plays the dad, We had the discussion early on that
we didn't want to go down the road necessary of
the bad dad, which was a bit bit of a
film stereotype where everything kind of blamed on this tyrannical dad,
And you're right, the guy is actually kind of trying
(06:11):
to set the boundaries. To me, it's it's all parents
will understand this. You pat yourself into corners, you know,
by setting boundaries, and it's really you end up putting
down laying down rules that you don't necessarily agree with,
but you feel like you have to. And for me,
the key clue for that character is at a point
(06:31):
in the film, he says to Angus, you can't go
out on a Sunday night, school night to see a band.
And then Angus sneaks out and Gordon's watching actually Scott
of the Antarctic on television, and he hears his son
go out, and he just just a smirk goes across
his face, very subtle, but he actually approves that his
(06:54):
son's sneaking out.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Right. Yeah, no, both as memories of a teenager and
being a dad, I can sort of understand that that
idea of we wanting to do the best, were not
too sure what it is and all so feeling sort
of culturally separated from our children.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
But yeah, for me writing it, writing it now and
older than the character, I was able to see it
from both points of view because because it's like, you know,
if I've written it if I've made this film then
I was much younger, probably would have been all from
the point of view of Angus. And then you write it,
(07:32):
and then you go, actually, the Dad has a point,
you know, so you start to It makes a nice
dynamic between the two of them because it almost becomes
a debating topic. Argue for and against should Angus go
to the show on a Sunday night on a school note?
Argue four and against? And so you get both of
them going because and they both the characters are strengthened
(07:54):
for that reason that you're able to play them both.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Well. You've got these strong characters, You've got the strong
theme of music. You've also got the strong theme of
christ Church and that particular particular era christ Church. And
I'm sure Cantabrians are going to love seeing the city
portrayed like this. So, I mean, even though it does
look a little bit grim in places and everything, the
(08:19):
idea of that pre earthquake christ Church, I'm sure clothes
in the hearts of Cantabrians. You must feel a strong
nostalgia for the place, even though you've lived away from
it a long time.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I do. It's one of those places that kind of
pulls you back at the truth of it. And of
course I'm biased, but I would suggest that it's a
bit overdetermined how much christ Church has contributed to the
culture of New Zealand as a wholes A lot of
and that might be because of very active university and
(08:52):
art school there, but it contributes a lot. Len Lai,
who's my film hero as far as I'm concerned that,
you know, one of the greatest film directors and certainly
out of New Zealand. You know, he grew up in
christ Church and that's the starting point of it. There's
all these real interesting for me growing up there. It
was full of ideas and that's that's really what I
(09:16):
wanted to capture, this idea that the music was aklathonic
gateway into the world of ideas and the world of
ideas being art, literature, all this stuff that opens up,
and particularly at that time time, people playing the music
were interested, were well read. You know, you would read
(09:38):
something and you'd read about you'd learn about Albert Camu
or you'd read about Eski through the lyrics of some songs,
and then you go and discover them and your world
would be opened up.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
It's amazing that they went out of their way to
look like they were sleeping under a bridge, but natural fact,
they probably came from good homes and were well educated
and thinking about stuff like this.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, to my mind, all the best bands were formed
at art school. Yep.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
And you hit it off the art school yourself or
was that not quite?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Not quite? I did a BA at the University of Canterbury.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Okay. But my guest tonight is Jonathan Ogilvie, who's just
released a new movie. We've been talking about that, but
we're going to talk a bit more about his career
after this break. This is real Life. I'm John Cowen.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
This is News Talks ed B Intelligent interviews with interesting people.
It's real life on News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Welcome back to real life. My guest tonight Jonathan Ogilvy filmmaker.
And what are we listening to there?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
We're listening to YFC featuring Estella Bennett otherwise known as Benny.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Right and that and that song is from the movie itself.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
That song is the closing song of the film.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
All Right, Head South. We were talking about the movie
that you've just released and interested that the backing band
is y OFC. You were part of that band, it was.
And interestingly we interviewed Ian Grant a while ago, who
headed up You for Christ in New Zealand, and apparently
he wasn't too keen on you using that name.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
No, it was we made the Sunday papers on that
because he didn't even even in the acronym. He wasn't
that keen on that we were using it. And yes,
that was probably the most Yeah, if you want to
be famous, get yourself banned. We almost got ourselves banned,
and we got into the Sunday paper that saying it.
(11:52):
It's an interesting article because it's me saying we need
we're neither atheists or agnostics, but we don't tend to
tend to change the name. I was very forthright about that.
The funny thing is, although Grant now in Norway and
Michael Daily, the drummer, now lives in christ Church and
(12:12):
nine eleven, Sydney, we never officially broke up. So the
band still plays and we're threatening to release a record
d out of Christmas, but we don't know which Christmas
that will be.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Oh well, I'll have to contact Dan Grunt and see
if he still wants to protest about you. But so
you were actually called Youth for Christ at the start too,
weren't you? And then I think you change it to
Youth for Youth from Christ Church or something just to
avoid too much legal backlash. It was obviously tongue in
(12:45):
cheek with the Christian organization. Wife. See you said you
weren't atheists or agnostic. Is there a spiritual dimension to yourself?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Well, there is. I'm very Catholic with my spiritualism. And
when I say Catholic, I mean Catholic the in lower
case rather than upper case, the universal sense, the universal
sense where I don't actually prioritie as any particular belief systems.
But for me, spiritualism comes down to the belief that
(13:15):
that there is another world beyond our physical world. And
I think most most people, certainly certainly artists and authors
like to believe that because it gives fuel for they
write about. And I think it's I think most people, actually,
unless the most cynical person, likes to believe that there
(13:39):
is there is a world beyond beyond our physical world.
And the film certainly deals with that dimension. Is that
I'm interested in that? In that I was just thinking
about have you have you been to the Sistine Chapel.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
John, No, but I've seen pictures of it.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah. So the famous one, of course, is is God
touching the finger of Adam? And what treagues me about this?
When you see it, it's very obvious. But the shroud
behind God is in the shape of the human brain,
complete with a brain stem of green that drops behind it,
(14:19):
which is quite extraordinary, and I think Michaelangelo, I'm surprised
that the Pope allowed Michaelangelo to actually do that, to
be able to draw that, because it is suggesting somehow
or other, if God doesn't exist, man needs or mankind
needs needs God to exist, which is an interesting idea.
But this idea of another, of another world beyond the
(14:43):
existing Lord intrigues me. Yes, I'm very much drawn to that.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Okay, are there any books or authors or philosophical frameworks
that have influenced you and that you take have taken
on board and thought, Yeah, that resonates with the ideas
that I've already come up with.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Well. In fact, Nick Cave is moving towards spiritual increasingly so.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
And I think by the way he liked your band,
didn't he He.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Didn't like that A fan of him look a lot
of you know, whether they like it or not. Stephen Hawkins,
you know when a Brief History of Time he talks
about God, you know it's not and it's it's a
shorthand for for for what he talks about. So I
(15:31):
think it's it's as I say, I'm not I'm a
very Catholic in the approach, but I'm not not dismissive.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Now back to your story and how you got into film.
You mentioned you had did the b a at at
christ Church and where'd you head after that?
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I went off to the big trip to New York,
or drove across across the country to New York and
did a short course film course there at the at
the University of A School of Visual Arts, and then
landed in London after that as you do, and went
to the job center job sent I said, Oh, I'd
(16:09):
like a job. I've been moving furniture in New York.
I'd like a job driving a van. I can do that. Also,
if there's any jobs going on a film set, I'd
love to do that. Of course, the guy laughed at me,
but as it happened he caught me on the weekends.
It actually there's a job painting Wardrobes on this film
in Elephant and Castle. They ended up being Death Wished three,
(16:31):
a terrible film.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
From that, I'm happy to say I missed it.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah you did, but you're very lucky. From that, I
managed to get on to Stanley Kubrick's for medal jacket.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
That's quite a leap from driving furniture vans or whatever
to working with Stanley Kubrick. You actually got within spitting
distance of them.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
I did, In fact, I did very much, so I'm
hard to believe now, but he pulled me out and
now was the model for the haircuts of the of
the young soldiers at the time, and he was. It
was funny because he was he was a recluse then,
and we were we'd be. I was working with a
special effects apartment. We were drilling holes to foot bullet hits,
and and this old geezer kept coming around in a
(17:16):
in an army jacket, and I said, who's that guy
that keeps coming and watching what we're doing. Oh, that's
the director. Stanley Kubrick went, oh, okay, that's what he
looks like.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Now it's a story, it's possibly apocryphal. I'm not too
sure that doing special effects and movies. You burnt off
some lead actor's eyebrows.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Martin, Matthew Modine's yes, and that was that was the
time I almost got fired by Stanley Kubrick. In fact, yes,
I had a smoke machine. The Terry Needham actually, who
originally from Wellington was the first a d and he
was waving as a gas firebar in front of my
smoke machine, and the smoke was so hot that it
(17:57):
became a flamethrower straight straight into the face of poor
Matthew Modin and bird off his eyebrows. And then Stanley's
going to my boss. He's going John whose name was
John as well, John, why did you let that happen?
And John Evans said, well, this is why I don't
like to rush stings Stanley. You know, because we're shooting.
(18:19):
We're shooting magic our, which is there's only magic. How
is the perfect time to shoot? There's no lights and
Kubrick always had quite small crews, and there's no it's
no artificial lighting. It's all natural lighting. But it's a
window that you can shoot, and so we're rushing around
doing all these shots. Anyway, I managed to stay. He didn't,
he didn't fire me. So I managed to stay and
(18:39):
he gave me a bottle of Glenn Felick for Christmas,
which was very nice.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Well that's good. I'm sure a bottle of single malt
says that you're forgiven and you could carry on in
your career. You made a lot of music videos and
I watched some of them. Had great fun, and it's
even more fun knowing that you did them on on
a shoe string budget, not shoot shot on bootlace film.
(19:04):
It was they had a great fun look to them.
Must have been a lot of fun to make.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
They were, and part of part of my approach with
Head South was to try and capture that sixteen mil
DIY look where you tape splice and sometimes you do it,
it's and you couldn't. You couldn't get rid of the
splice in the in the image, and it doesn't matter
how many times you cut it. And of course it's
reversal films. Every time you cut you're actually losing. It's
(19:31):
not negative, you actually lose the image every time you
do it. So there's a certain strajag efits she Speeds
as an example, where there's a shot of Chaine Carter
close up and there's a line that I could never
get out of.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
That's okay, that's the one where they're racing through the tunnel.
That's true, and it's and didn't they nearly freeze to
death doing that?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
It certainly looks like it doesn't. It does. The end
the childer my spine now to look at it, because
they're on an open trailer with no sort of safety whatsoever.
The idea that we're even allowed to do it surprises me,
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Probably you were allowed to do it, probably so you've
done now several films phill length movies and living in Australia.
Australia is an environment that cultivates movie culture better than
New Zealand, you.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Find, I actually don't find that. And it's very interesting
where now at a point cinema. Cinema was the greatest
art form of the twentieth century. Whether it's going to
be the great from the twenty first century, I'm not sure.
What I'm inspired by is that New Zealanders seem to
want to watch New Zealand stories, which I'm certainly hoping
(20:50):
that they will be drawn to this story because I
think it's really important that we fight against the idea
that America is colonizing our imaginations with all the Hollywood
films that come in. We need to be able to
be telling our own stories and that's actually getting harder
and harder to do.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Do you see it having a an international appeal? You've
shown this movie in Copenhagen and other places. Do they
actually get it? Do they actually? I mean they won't
know what Lane's emulsion is, by the way, I was
greatly stirred by seeing Lane's emulsion on a shelf in
that film, like a taste it in my mouth. But well,
(21:28):
people in Copenhagen, do they actually get this?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yes, there's a thing called hyper local, which is incredible.
It opened the Rotterdam Film Festival to a long standing
ovation fifteen hundred seater cinema. It's been playing in the
Netherlands since then, which is nine months. It's been playing
in Spain for the same time. People get it and
it's a weird thing. But the more specific you get
(21:52):
with a film world, somehow, the more universal it is.
Somehow we want to see things that are specific. So yes,
you're absolutely right, nothing about Lane's emulsion. Probably lucky for
them they can have something else, but they respond to it.
They respond to it in a big way because at
the end of the day, it's about a young person
(22:14):
finding themselves.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Right. Okay, musicians that you've got a lot of music
in the movie. Musicians keen to be part of the project.
Did you ring up your old mates in the music
industry or how did that work?
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yeah? Exactly. So Shane Carter has done the original soundtrack
and Shane of course from strat Jaga Fitz goes back
to the video for Sheet Speeds that we've been talking about.
So he was a great starting point. I wanted to
do a soundtrack that started in guitar and sort of
moved from that to process guitar rather than orchestral. So
(22:51):
keep the soundtrack close to the actual music that you're hearing.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Can I ask you what's next? What's next in the pipeline?
What's coming up for Jonathan Ogilvie.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Yeah, I have The g Bun Darts Club, which is
an old school heist film with some darts thrown in
septagenarian cast which I'm hoping to hope to grab some
household names from New Zealand and from Australia to make
that film.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Well, that sounds like there's going to be a lot
of fun. Yeah, And I think that'll be quite inspiring
to people of my age to think that we might
have a career ahead of us in bank robbery exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
I'm trying to make darts to new golf as well.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Oh well, you're already working to revive punk, and so
here you are reviving darts as well. You might have
quite a profound influence on culture. And is this something
you've written yourself as well?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Yes, it is. It's not something that's I've been intrigued
about for some time, and it all came about by
a mishearing. Someone said, this is a mishearing a script
about a bank robbery by some twenty somethings and some
miss hurd it and said some seventy somethings, and no,
(24:08):
but that would be a good idea for a film.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Reminds me the old Monty Python sketch of the little
old ladies beating up young people on the streets. But well,
all the best for that, and all the best for
Head South as it heads into cinemas. It's been great
talking with Jonathan Ogilvey, and make sure you catch Head South.
It's opening in cinemas from October thirty, first in New
(24:34):
Zealand and Jonathan fantastic talking to you and you will
go out another song you've picked, also by Benny What
are we going to be listening to?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Fam Fattelle written by Lou Reed.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Fantastic, great talking with you, Thanks for making time. This
is real life on news Talk z B. I'll look
forward to being back with you again next Sunday night.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Ms us the thing she does to this, She's just
a little.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Fit. See the way she walks.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
For more from News Talk set B. Listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
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