June 22, 2025 • 24 mins
Miriama Kamo is a Christchurch-born journalist, author, and TV presenter of Ngāi Tahu and Ngāti Mutunga descent. She’s spent over two decades telling powerful stories on Sunday and Marae, earning top awards for her work in current affairs.
She’s also a celebrated children’s author, known for her Matariki-inspired books, and co-founder of Kotahi Rau Pukapuka, a project publishing 100 books in te reo Māori. Miriama is a proud advocate for te reo, the environment, and social change.
She lives in Auckland with her husband Mike Dreaver and children. Together, they run Kia Hono—helping organisations connect with te ao Māori in meaningful ways.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News talk S ed B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real life with John Cowen
on News talk S ed BAK.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm John Cowan, a very appropriate guest for real Life
this Mataiki Weekend is broadcaster and author Mariamacamo. Welcome, Mariama Yoda.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm lovely to speak to you, John.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Nice to talk to you again too, and how are
you doing?
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Very good?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Thank you been up for a very nice meal, which
is sort of an extension of Matiki's feasting. So yeah,
it's been lovely.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Oh that sounds like a great, great way to celebrate. Now.
I think any two human beings on the planet meeting
at the moment, the first thing to be talking about,
of course, is the big news news of the day.
And so I'm just wondering, do you have any take
on what's going down in the Middle East?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I don't suppose you've got any inside running on it.
But how is it striking you?
Speaker 5 (01:18):
No?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
No, what's an interesting weird to use. Hows it striking me?
It's extremely concerning, it's very worrying, and it's interesting to
see so many countries in the Middle East saying look,
this is a worry and what will it mean in
terms of destabilizing this region and could it lead to
(01:39):
all our wars? So it's very concerning, and I guess
we keep a watching brief.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, I'd like to come back to it a bit,
perhaps later on, because I know one of the dreams
you have is of people of different cultures walking alongside
each other, and I was just thinking that would be
a real dream for the Middle East. But we might
echo that a bit later on. But coming back to Marjoriki,
it's a particularly appropriate to talk to you because because
(02:08):
you've written a series of books, especially children books about Martaiki,
and one of them, Kai Stars of Martaiki, has just
been relate been translated into Terreo Mauri by Arianna Stevens,
and it's nominated for the Right Family Foundation Tikkurapona Award
for Terreo Mari. So congratulations on it doing very well,
and so obviously Martoiki looms huge in your world.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
It does, and I would first mehe to Ariana for
her incredible mahi. There are five books in the Stolen
Stars series that have written and she has translated them
all into to their and so it's really her mahi
that's being acknowledged in this award. And I'm really just
(02:52):
so thrilled and proud. And then there's the final book
comes out next year, so against she will well fingers cross,
she will be the one translating that one too.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Now I've read through three of them, and I know
that you spent time ealing down on Birdling Flat and
I'm just amazed at how how this theme comes back
time and time again. It was obviously something very very
important to you growing up the side this it was.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, but my my fa no has a well they
had batch there at the batch fell down after many decades.
It was an old railway cottage and so it's coincided
with the christ Which earthquake and my parents had to
move out of their place in South Brighton and so
because they had had this other place that had been
(03:41):
home for them out at Matha Haapuku Birdling's Flat, they
decided to move a house onto the ear So my
mum still lives out there. But yeah, it was ealing
was a huge thing for my family and it's we've
got a really long history in it because that is
what that area is known for for the incredible flora
(04:02):
and fauna there and the the eling, the fishing, you know,
the swining, there's flounder. It's just bountiful. And so my
family would taught each other down the generations how to heel.
So yeah, so I've started teaching my own daughter.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So you actually still get out there and do a
bit of eeling.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, Like, what I've tried to do is start a
new sorry John's so you know, I'm getting out of
an uber and I'm going to be walking inside my
home in a minute, So hopefully it'll be a better
you'll hear me a bit better. But my daughter is
thirteen now, and so we started going down a couple
of years ago just to teach her how to eel.
(04:49):
But she's been going there since she was you know,
since she was born. So yeah, it's are you going
to become a bit of a tradition for her as well?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Now my Maori grandmother will probably be rolling in her grave.
But I just don't like eel. Is there some way
that you prepare it that makes it somewhat take.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Look, I will be honest, I don't prepare it. I
still have it prepared, and so my father used to
roast it and it was beautiful. So there's all sorts
of different ways that you can prepare it. I'm unfortunately
the wrong person about good preparation, but smoking it is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yes, I have had smoked deal and that tiny amount
sort of cracker, yep, I can, I can. I can
resonate with that, but a whole plate covered and it
lightly boiled. I don't think I'd be a starter. But
in your in your books, there's all sorts of things.
There's the battles with the mischievous fairy people, the what
are there? The I can't be yes? And but also
(05:54):
there sends to be an environmental message there, and so yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
There is.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
I mean, I'm you know, I'm very concerned about the
challenges at our tail environment faces, and so have advocating
for more connection for people and planet and so yeah,
so the books are a way to hopefully get kids
(06:19):
interested in the tail and so making it fun, making
it a little bit magical. Yeah, getting them to relate
to things mildy, But yeah, as we say, on a
bigger scale, getting them to relate to the planet as
a whole.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Right, that is one of your big things, really, isn't it.
If we were making a list of things that are
big things in Miriamacamo's life, the concern for the planet
zero waste, it's got to be a big one name.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah, No, it is.
Speaker 6 (06:47):
It is.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
It's a really it's a wonderful passion. And I get
a lot of joy out of it because I used
to actually, if I'm honest about it, I had quite
crippling climate anxiety about ten years ago. Yeah, and you
know the thought where you sort of wake up something
heart in the chest, that sort of thing, and then
(07:08):
developed since then this notion that you know, you don't
get anxious, you get active. And that's the minute I
started doing that is when my anxiety lifted. So I
don't have climate anxiety. I am concerned, but not anxious,
and so that means that I can, you know, stay
engaged in the in the copappa, I.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Love it when you can boil life down into aphorisms
that sort of stick with you and that don't get anxious,
get active. I'll take that one. I'll keep great. Thank
you very much. Now, you also wrote Martariki around the World,
and so this this celebration of the rising of the
(07:49):
constellation of Martariki. That's something that has a wider application
than just New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
So the matamataka, the way that we the way that
our calendar was observed by maori so prey contact. There
are versions of that all around the world, and Matadiki
is part of that canon of martodnimal knowledge, and it's
a it's a beautiful way of I think of framing
(08:21):
the different challenges and the different wonderful parts of our lives. So,
for example, Matadichi, you know, as we know, it's the
it's the end of the of the year, it's the
beginning of a new year. And so what it callsed
us to do and what is useful for I think
is giving us a moment, particularly in winter, when a
(08:41):
little bit of joy is always a good thing, but
giving us a moment where we can reset our own
calendar and our own ideals for what we're going to
achieve going forward. But it also calls us to rest
and celebrate, to feast, and to acknowledge the great things
on this planet and in our lives far. No, So yeah,
(09:04):
I think there's there's a lot of beautiful frameworks that
we can you know, used to our benefit, whether we're
maldi or not.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So, how have you been as a family celebrating You
mentioned that you've just been out to a meal. Has
that just been part of what you've doing? Have been
doing doing other things as well?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
To Mark Marto Riqui, So I always I use it
as a time to reset. So I just announced on
social media because it's a great way of giving yourself
accountable that I'm going to do a health reset, and
Matadique is a really great time to do that, to
look at your own well being and take stock of
(09:43):
it and make changes that are necessary to secure your
health going into the future. So so I hate exercise,
if I'm honest, hate it or the passion, but I
have decided that that I've just got a woman do it.
I'm at an age now where I have to.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
And also I think you've got a trip to Antarctica
coming up that pers and you've got to get fit
for that. So hey, look, we'll talk about some of
those things after the break, because there's there's still a
lot more that we want to I want to talk
to you about. But so that idea of a health reset,
probably anytimes a good time to do a health reset.
But when something's telling you from the sky, like Marta Riki,
(10:26):
probably pays to listen to it. So I'm talking with
Maria Amacamo about Marto Riki and about the world of Miriamacamo.
We'll be back with real life in just a.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Minute, intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on
news Talk.
Speaker 6 (10:41):
ZB Well wellity waiter, waity, witemity.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Waitter, Welcome back to real life. My guest tonight, Mariamacamo.
Who's picked way Sorry Wai Waita by Maisie Rica, And
tell us about that song that you picked for us.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
White Sea and Waita are two songs are stars rather
in the Mutterlehi cluster, and they give clues about the
well being of salt water and fresh water and life
in it and what's sort of what you can expect
in terms of harvesting from them. And so Amazie is
a very well known and much loved Maudi singer, and
(11:43):
she has created the most beautiful songs, beautiful Wayeta and
this particular one I just love. Every time I hear it,
I just sort of sick into contentment.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
It's a it's a lovely song. You come from a
musical family, does that have those genes reached you, Oh.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Sadly not.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
No.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Yes, my dad was a double basist and my brother
he used to follows in my dad's footsteps. And yes,
and then right through my whole family. On both sides,
there are a lot of amazing singers and musicians. And no,
it's skip by Sandy John.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
It happens. It happens. But I'm sure you've got other
skills as well. You mentioned your dad being a double
basis and as part of looking back at Marto Riqui time,
he looms large in your mind.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
He does.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yeah, So dad passed away and lockdown so he never
got to have a tonguey And it was an enormous
heartbreak for Arson, for our Mariya l Ewi. But you know,
I talked before about mutdiha providing frameworks, and one of
the great things that provides a framework for is grief.
And so when I wrote MUTTDI here around the world
(13:02):
with Professor Atama, who is our godfather of Mutdi Heathern,
the guy who spearheaded the public home day in the
Return of the Marto Dunmer. So when we wrote this
book together about Matadiki, he said to me, I don't
want to put any acknowledgments in myself. I want to
leave that space for you to acknowledge your father, because
(13:23):
according to our matadiki traditions, your father will rise as
a star this matadiki. And so he left a page
in our book where I was able to acknowledge my father,
and you know, being able to acknowledge his passing during
that matadiki was really healing. It was the most beautiful thing.
(13:47):
And there were lots of ways that Dad was acknowledged
during that time, you know, including being mentioned in the
Prime Minister speech at the time when we launched the
public holiday, including articles and in various forms, he was acknowledged.
And so, although it didn't replace a tonguey matdik, in
(14:08):
that sense provided a beautiful framework within which I could
express that grief.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Oh it's lovely that he can be honored and lovely
also that it's walking you forward in that grief. And
it's interesting how Mari spirituality has this concept of you know,
the soul passing on this journey through after they die
and involving Marta Riki. I know your dad was a chaplain,
(14:35):
as was your mother, and they were Catholic and I'm
just I just sort of think, do these ideas of
Maori spirituality they sit comfortably alongside their Christian heritage as well.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Yeah, they have.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Mom and dad were you know, very staunch Catholics. But
Mama's Parker Hub but she was very Maldy minded, and
my father came from a very strong Mardi Farno, you know,
very deeply steeped in all things Mary. And so yeah, no,
(15:08):
these things actually worked beautifully together. I mean, I think
there's a sense that they could be seen as mutually exclusive,
but I think that would be an unfortunate way to
look at it. And if you thought that they had
to be mutually exclusive, I think you'd miss out a
lot on the beauty not only of religious belief, but
(15:28):
of spiritual belief and how they can work together.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yes, I think that things like they can run on
separate tracks, can't they? And it's a complimentary I think
when I've talked to you before, I think you've sort
of mentioned that that sort of Christian heritage that you
have has sort of deconstructed more into sort of like
a spiritual relationship with nature. Would that be right?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
I think that's fair to say. Yeah, I'm not a
practicing Catholic. My parents raised us to We had to
go to church every week until we were eighteen, and
then they sort of relaxed, and you know, they said,
you know, your faith is in your hands. And so
some of my siblings are very deeply and each still
(16:09):
in their faith and in the church, and some of
us not so much. I have a deep fondness for
the Catholic Church because of all the wonderful things that
brought into my life. And again in the way that
Matadiki provides a framework, I think, you know that the
Catholic Church was a wonderful framework for me to grow
up in, but it doesn't work for me anymore. So
(16:31):
I don't go to church, and I have probably an
interesting relationship with what we would call God, and so
I'm working through that relationship.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Looking back. You know, we're talking about looking back on
your dad. But also a grief that you've had in
the last year or so is losing your role with
Sunday and that was one after twenty two years, and
it must have been churning for you. Have you processed
that grief as well?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
I think I was. I think I managed to process
it pretty well because So the first thing I should
say is that we fought hard to keep Sunday because
it was still rating well. I was still making money,
so we fought hard for it because it is important
that we you know that what is a heartbreak for
me is watching our pillars of our industry falling over,
(17:25):
and Sunday fell over at a time where TB three,
you know, got rid of its news and fear Go
and Sunday and there were just so many things going
on at the same time. It's a pretty horrifying time.
As a journalist. I had a lot of grief for
the institution of Sunday and what it represented for our
audiences and you know, for the country, and for our industry,
(17:48):
and for my co workers and for people who loved
it most importantly for our audience, but for myself. I
didn't have a deep grief because I sort of went
I don't want to sound like a Pollyanna, but I
went to gratitude rather than grief. And my gratitude was
I got to do this job for twenty two years,
(18:10):
So that's amazing. How lucky am I and I still
think that I just can't believe how lucky I was
to do that job for so long and so and
that's still where my deepest feelings lie in gratitude.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Right, we know you first and foremost as a broadcaster
and journalist is did you know yourself in that role?
I mean, when you thought of yourself, did you think
I am Mariama, the person who does Sunday Or was
there enough no breadth and your knowledge of yourself so
that you didn't lose your identity as well? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
And in fact, it was a deliberate strategy which I
established very early in my career, because when I looked
around as a very young journalist at older journalists and
people in my industry that moved on and struggled, I thought,
I don't want that, and so I left TV in
Set as a as a salaried employee only two or
(19:06):
three years into my work and became a contractor. And
that provided me with just enough separation so that I
never became institutionalized. I never felt like I am Media
mccomare and this is my identity, you know, I am
x y z it. It's the strategy paid off because
(19:28):
I was able to extricate myself in a whole state
and feeling gratitude for what I got to do.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
That's a lot of wisdom there, probably for people that
are also looking at retirement, losing their sense of identity
through identifying overly with a role rather than who they
are themselves. So if you are more than just what
you do? What labels do you like to put on
your heart? You know? Who do you? Would you think
(20:00):
of yourself? What do you What are you most proud
of about yourself? What role?
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Is interesting question? I don't know that I've actually spent
much time, maybe not enough time, I should say, really
interrogating that. And I just get on with life. But
you know when people ask, well, what are you if
you're not doing Sunday, and I just I'm a storyteller,
so I find ways to tell stories, and you know,
(20:24):
through writing, through books, I'm still working on what I
which I am so proud of that I get to
continue working on our Malori Current Fears program, which is
such a tula, and through MC ing and speaking and yeah,
there's lots of different avenues, you know. So you know,
(20:46):
a bunch of us set up a production company after
Sunday Folded and we get to exercise our storytelling muscle
through that. We call it that we established too. So
there's Herd Productions and the Anonmous pretty putty productions, and
which means flower and Herd in particular. Is it's really
exciting because I get to work with my Sunday colleagues
(21:09):
and we are working hard across a lot of different
storytelling platforms and excited about those. And one of them,
as you mentioned earlier, was Antarctica. That one is actually
through pretty pretty productions, but that one, you know, it's
a great hope that we'll get to go. We're going
in winter, and so there's no guarantee we'll actually make it.
But the reason that we're going is that we're going
(21:31):
to be going to follow Ti Matama. So Langy is
we've discussed, you know, he's a mate of mine and
and so he said, I'm going to Antarctica. I'm going
to go and study the stars from down there. I
want to understand what it's like to establish a sense
of place, to transport Marto dung Amaldi into an unknown environment,
as our superin did when they arrived in Altiadawa. And
(21:54):
so I said, what I'd love to come to We'll
do a documentary. So we're going to follow him to
Antarctica to do that.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
In the middle of winter, and it's you realize it's
going to be dark with people. Yeah, winter Antarctica, but
I didn't see it that they.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Exactly well hung you will, that's the most important thing.
As long as he could see some stars, or he said,
if the stars are obscured, because he's just the attune
and optimist, he said, if the stars are obscured, then
I will study the clouds.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Mariama has been lovely talking to you, and I wish
you a very happy year ahead and happy celebrations of
Marta Riki to everyone. We're going out on another song.
You've picked you. What have you got chosen for us?
Speaker 3 (22:34):
What's another mating song? And this one's tongue and again
showcasing her incredible talent.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Thank you so much for being part of real life
and look forward to perhaps talking to you again sometime
making John this is real life on news Talk, sa'd be.
I'm John Cown. Looking forward to being back with you
again next Sunday Night.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Eat ZACKI doma. That's what.
Speaker 7 (23:18):
You tell me, Dad say had coming, but let's say
I forgot in.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
A sack dog. That's sama a na.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
In the nick about it, did Ay tap about in
a tap about?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
For more from Newstalk st B, Listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News talk S ed B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real life with John Cowen
on News talk S ed BAK.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm John Cowan, a very appropriate guest for real Life
this Mataiki Weekend is broadcaster and author Mariamacamo. Welcome, Mariama Yoda.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm lovely to speak to you, John.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Nice to talk to you again too, and how are
you doing?
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Very good?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Thank you been up for a very nice meal, which
is sort of an extension of Matiki's feasting. So yeah,
it's been lovely.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Oh that sounds like a great, great way to celebrate. Now.
I think any two human beings on the planet meeting
at the moment, the first thing to be talking about,
of course, is the big news news of the day.
And so I'm just wondering, do you have any take
on what's going down in the Middle East?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I don't suppose you've got any inside running on it.
But how is it striking you?
Speaker 5 (01:18):
No?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
No, what's an interesting weird to use. Hows it striking me?
It's extremely concerning, it's very worrying, and it's interesting to
see so many countries in the Middle East saying look,
this is a worry and what will it mean in
terms of destabilizing this region and could it lead to
(01:39):
all our wars? So it's very concerning, and I guess
we keep a watching brief.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, I'd like to come back to it a bit,
perhaps later on, because I know one of the dreams
you have is of people of different cultures walking alongside
each other, and I was just thinking that would be
a real dream for the Middle East. But we might
echo that a bit later on. But coming back to Marjoriki,
it's a particularly appropriate to talk to you because because
(02:08):
you've written a series of books, especially children books about Martaiki,
and one of them, Kai Stars of Martaiki, has just
been relate been translated into Terreo Mauri by Arianna Stevens,
and it's nominated for the Right Family Foundation Tikkurapona Award
for Terreo Mari. So congratulations on it doing very well,
and so obviously Martoiki looms huge in your world.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
It does, and I would first mehe to Ariana for
her incredible mahi. There are five books in the Stolen
Stars series that have written and she has translated them
all into to their and so it's really her mahi
that's being acknowledged in this award. And I'm really just
(02:52):
so thrilled and proud. And then there's the final book
comes out next year, so against she will well fingers cross,
she will be the one translating that one too.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Now I've read through three of them, and I know
that you spent time ealing down on Birdling Flat and
I'm just amazed at how how this theme comes back
time and time again. It was obviously something very very
important to you growing up the side this it was.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, but my my fa no has a well they
had batch there at the batch fell down after many decades.
It was an old railway cottage and so it's coincided
with the christ Which earthquake and my parents had to
move out of their place in South Brighton and so
because they had had this other place that had been
(03:41):
home for them out at Matha Haapuku Birdling's Flat, they
decided to move a house onto the ear So my
mum still lives out there. But yeah, it was ealing
was a huge thing for my family and it's we've
got a really long history in it because that is
what that area is known for for the incredible flora
(04:02):
and fauna there and the the eling, the fishing, you know,
the swining, there's flounder. It's just bountiful. And so my
family would taught each other down the generations how to heel.
So yeah, so I've started teaching my own daughter.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So you actually still get out there and do a
bit of eeling.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, Like, what I've tried to do is start a
new sorry John's so you know, I'm getting out of
an uber and I'm going to be walking inside my
home in a minute, So hopefully it'll be a better
you'll hear me a bit better. But my daughter is
thirteen now, and so we started going down a couple
of years ago just to teach her how to eel.
(04:49):
But she's been going there since she was you know,
since she was born. So yeah, it's are you going
to become a bit of a tradition for her as well?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Now my Maori grandmother will probably be rolling in her grave.
But I just don't like eel. Is there some way
that you prepare it that makes it somewhat take.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Look, I will be honest, I don't prepare it. I
still have it prepared, and so my father used to
roast it and it was beautiful. So there's all sorts
of different ways that you can prepare it. I'm unfortunately
the wrong person about good preparation, but smoking it is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yes, I have had smoked deal and that tiny amount
sort of cracker, yep, I can, I can. I can
resonate with that, but a whole plate covered and it
lightly boiled. I don't think I'd be a starter. But
in your in your books, there's all sorts of things.
There's the battles with the mischievous fairy people, the what
are there? The I can't be yes? And but also
(05:54):
there sends to be an environmental message there, and so yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
There is.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
I mean, I'm you know, I'm very concerned about the
challenges at our tail environment faces, and so have advocating
for more connection for people and planet and so yeah,
so the books are a way to hopefully get kids
(06:19):
interested in the tail and so making it fun, making
it a little bit magical. Yeah, getting them to relate
to things mildy, But yeah, as we say, on a
bigger scale, getting them to relate to the planet as
a whole.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Right, that is one of your big things, really, isn't it.
If we were making a list of things that are
big things in Miriamacamo's life, the concern for the planet
zero waste, it's got to be a big one name.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah, No, it is.
Speaker 6 (06:47):
It is.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
It's a really it's a wonderful passion. And I get
a lot of joy out of it because I used
to actually, if I'm honest about it, I had quite
crippling climate anxiety about ten years ago. Yeah, and you
know the thought where you sort of wake up something
heart in the chest, that sort of thing, and then
(07:08):
developed since then this notion that you know, you don't
get anxious, you get active. And that's the minute I
started doing that is when my anxiety lifted. So I
don't have climate anxiety. I am concerned, but not anxious,
and so that means that I can, you know, stay
engaged in the in the copappa, I.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Love it when you can boil life down into aphorisms
that sort of stick with you and that don't get anxious,
get active. I'll take that one. I'll keep great. Thank
you very much. Now, you also wrote Martariki around the World,
and so this this celebration of the rising of the
(07:49):
constellation of Martariki. That's something that has a wider application
than just New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
So the matamataka, the way that we the way that
our calendar was observed by maori so prey contact. There
are versions of that all around the world, and Matadiki
is part of that canon of martodnimal knowledge, and it's
a it's a beautiful way of I think of framing
(08:21):
the different challenges and the different wonderful parts of our lives. So,
for example, Matadichi, you know, as we know, it's the
it's the end of the of the year, it's the
beginning of a new year. And so what it callsed
us to do and what is useful for I think
is giving us a moment, particularly in winter, when a
(08:41):
little bit of joy is always a good thing, but
giving us a moment where we can reset our own
calendar and our own ideals for what we're going to
achieve going forward. But it also calls us to rest
and celebrate, to feast, and to acknowledge the great things
on this planet and in our lives far. No, So yeah,
(09:04):
I think there's there's a lot of beautiful frameworks that
we can you know, used to our benefit, whether we're
maldi or not.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So, how have you been as a family celebrating You
mentioned that you've just been out to a meal. Has
that just been part of what you've doing? Have been
doing doing other things as well?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
To Mark Marto Riqui, So I always I use it
as a time to reset. So I just announced on
social media because it's a great way of giving yourself
accountable that I'm going to do a health reset, and
Matadique is a really great time to do that, to
look at your own well being and take stock of
(09:43):
it and make changes that are necessary to secure your
health going into the future. So so I hate exercise,
if I'm honest, hate it or the passion, but I
have decided that that I've just got a woman do it.
I'm at an age now where I have to.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
And also I think you've got a trip to Antarctica
coming up that pers and you've got to get fit
for that. So hey, look, we'll talk about some of
those things after the break, because there's there's still a
lot more that we want to I want to talk
to you about. But so that idea of a health reset,
probably anytimes a good time to do a health reset.
But when something's telling you from the sky, like Marta Riki,
(10:26):
probably pays to listen to it. So I'm talking with
Maria Amacamo about Marto Riki and about the world of Miriamacamo.
We'll be back with real life in just a.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Minute, intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on
news Talk.
Speaker 6 (10:41):
ZB Well wellity waiter, waity, witemity.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Waitter, Welcome back to real life. My guest tonight, Mariamacamo.
Who's picked way Sorry Wai Waita by Maisie Rica, And
tell us about that song that you picked for us.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
White Sea and Waita are two songs are stars rather
in the Mutterlehi cluster, and they give clues about the
well being of salt water and fresh water and life
in it and what's sort of what you can expect
in terms of harvesting from them. And so Amazie is
a very well known and much loved Maudi singer, and
(11:43):
she has created the most beautiful songs, beautiful Wayeta and
this particular one I just love. Every time I hear it,
I just sort of sick into contentment.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
It's a it's a lovely song. You come from a
musical family, does that have those genes reached you, Oh.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Sadly not.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
No.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Yes, my dad was a double basist and my brother
he used to follows in my dad's footsteps. And yes,
and then right through my whole family. On both sides,
there are a lot of amazing singers and musicians. And no,
it's skip by Sandy John.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
It happens. It happens. But I'm sure you've got other
skills as well. You mentioned your dad being a double
basis and as part of looking back at Marto Riqui time,
he looms large in your mind.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
He does.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yeah, So dad passed away and lockdown so he never
got to have a tonguey And it was an enormous
heartbreak for Arson, for our Mariya l Ewi. But you know,
I talked before about mutdiha providing frameworks, and one of
the great things that provides a framework for is grief.
And so when I wrote MUTTDI here around the world
(13:02):
with Professor Atama, who is our godfather of Mutdi Heathern,
the guy who spearheaded the public home day in the
Return of the Marto Dunmer. So when we wrote this
book together about Matadiki, he said to me, I don't
want to put any acknowledgments in myself. I want to
leave that space for you to acknowledge your father, because
(13:23):
according to our matadiki traditions, your father will rise as
a star this matadiki. And so he left a page
in our book where I was able to acknowledge my father,
and you know, being able to acknowledge his passing during
that matadiki was really healing. It was the most beautiful thing.
(13:47):
And there were lots of ways that Dad was acknowledged
during that time, you know, including being mentioned in the
Prime Minister speech at the time when we launched the
public holiday, including articles and in various forms, he was acknowledged.
And so, although it didn't replace a tonguey matdik, in
(14:08):
that sense provided a beautiful framework within which I could
express that grief.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Oh it's lovely that he can be honored and lovely
also that it's walking you forward in that grief. And
it's interesting how Mari spirituality has this concept of you know,
the soul passing on this journey through after they die
and involving Marta Riki. I know your dad was a chaplain,
(14:35):
as was your mother, and they were Catholic and I'm
just I just sort of think, do these ideas of
Maori spirituality they sit comfortably alongside their Christian heritage as well.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Yeah, they have.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Mom and dad were you know, very staunch Catholics. But
Mama's Parker Hub but she was very Maldy minded, and
my father came from a very strong Mardi Farno, you know,
very deeply steeped in all things Mary. And so yeah, no,
(15:08):
these things actually worked beautifully together. I mean, I think
there's a sense that they could be seen as mutually exclusive,
but I think that would be an unfortunate way to
look at it. And if you thought that they had
to be mutually exclusive, I think you'd miss out a
lot on the beauty not only of religious belief, but
(15:28):
of spiritual belief and how they can work together.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yes, I think that things like they can run on
separate tracks, can't they? And it's a complimentary I think
when I've talked to you before, I think you've sort
of mentioned that that sort of Christian heritage that you
have has sort of deconstructed more into sort of like
a spiritual relationship with nature. Would that be right?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
I think that's fair to say. Yeah, I'm not a
practicing Catholic. My parents raised us to We had to
go to church every week until we were eighteen, and
then they sort of relaxed, and you know, they said,
you know, your faith is in your hands. And so
some of my siblings are very deeply and each still
(16:09):
in their faith and in the church, and some of
us not so much. I have a deep fondness for
the Catholic Church because of all the wonderful things that
brought into my life. And again in the way that
Matadiki provides a framework, I think, you know that the
Catholic Church was a wonderful framework for me to grow
up in, but it doesn't work for me anymore. So
(16:31):
I don't go to church, and I have probably an
interesting relationship with what we would call God, and so
I'm working through that relationship.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Looking back. You know, we're talking about looking back on
your dad. But also a grief that you've had in
the last year or so is losing your role with
Sunday and that was one after twenty two years, and
it must have been churning for you. Have you processed
that grief as well?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
I think I was. I think I managed to process
it pretty well because So the first thing I should
say is that we fought hard to keep Sunday because
it was still rating well. I was still making money,
so we fought hard for it because it is important
that we you know that what is a heartbreak for
me is watching our pillars of our industry falling over,
(17:25):
and Sunday fell over at a time where TB three,
you know, got rid of its news and fear Go
and Sunday and there were just so many things going
on at the same time. It's a pretty horrifying time.
As a journalist. I had a lot of grief for
the institution of Sunday and what it represented for our
audiences and you know, for the country, and for our industry,
(17:48):
and for my co workers and for people who loved
it most importantly for our audience, but for myself. I
didn't have a deep grief because I sort of went
I don't want to sound like a Pollyanna, but I
went to gratitude rather than grief. And my gratitude was
I got to do this job for twenty two years,
(18:10):
So that's amazing. How lucky am I and I still
think that I just can't believe how lucky I was
to do that job for so long and so and
that's still where my deepest feelings lie in gratitude.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Right, we know you first and foremost as a broadcaster
and journalist is did you know yourself in that role?
I mean, when you thought of yourself, did you think
I am Mariama, the person who does Sunday Or was
there enough no breadth and your knowledge of yourself so
that you didn't lose your identity as well? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
And in fact, it was a deliberate strategy which I
established very early in my career, because when I looked
around as a very young journalist at older journalists and
people in my industry that moved on and struggled, I thought,
I don't want that, and so I left TV in
Set as a as a salaried employee only two or
(19:06):
three years into my work and became a contractor. And
that provided me with just enough separation so that I
never became institutionalized. I never felt like I am Media
mccomare and this is my identity, you know, I am
x y z it. It's the strategy paid off because
(19:28):
I was able to extricate myself in a whole state
and feeling gratitude for what I got to do.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
That's a lot of wisdom there, probably for people that
are also looking at retirement, losing their sense of identity
through identifying overly with a role rather than who they
are themselves. So if you are more than just what
you do? What labels do you like to put on
your heart? You know? Who do you? Would you think
(20:00):
of yourself? What do you What are you most proud
of about yourself? What role?
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Is interesting question? I don't know that I've actually spent
much time, maybe not enough time, I should say, really
interrogating that. And I just get on with life. But
you know when people ask, well, what are you if
you're not doing Sunday, and I just I'm a storyteller,
so I find ways to tell stories, and you know,
(20:24):
through writing, through books, I'm still working on what I
which I am so proud of that I get to
continue working on our Malori Current Fears program, which is
such a tula, and through MC ing and speaking and yeah,
there's lots of different avenues, you know. So you know,
(20:46):
a bunch of us set up a production company after
Sunday Folded and we get to exercise our storytelling muscle
through that. We call it that we established too. So
there's Herd Productions and the Anonmous pretty putty productions, and
which means flower and Herd in particular. Is it's really
exciting because I get to work with my Sunday colleagues
(21:09):
and we are working hard across a lot of different
storytelling platforms and excited about those. And one of them,
as you mentioned earlier, was Antarctica. That one is actually
through pretty pretty productions, but that one, you know, it's
a great hope that we'll get to go. We're going
in winter, and so there's no guarantee we'll actually make it.
But the reason that we're going is that we're going
(21:31):
to be going to follow Ti Matama. So Langy is
we've discussed, you know, he's a mate of mine and
and so he said, I'm going to Antarctica. I'm going
to go and study the stars from down there. I
want to understand what it's like to establish a sense
of place, to transport Marto dung Amaldi into an unknown environment,
as our superin did when they arrived in Altiadawa. And
(21:54):
so I said, what I'd love to come to We'll
do a documentary. So we're going to follow him to
Antarctica to do that.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
In the middle of winter, and it's you realize it's
going to be dark with people. Yeah, winter Antarctica, but
I didn't see it that they.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Exactly well hung you will, that's the most important thing.
As long as he could see some stars, or he said,
if the stars are obscured, because he's just the attune
and optimist, he said, if the stars are obscured, then
I will study the clouds.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Mariama has been lovely talking to you, and I wish
you a very happy year ahead and happy celebrations of
Marta Riki to everyone. We're going out on another song.
You've picked you. What have you got chosen for us?
Speaker 3 (22:34):
What's another mating song? And this one's tongue and again
showcasing her incredible talent.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Thank you so much for being part of real life
and look forward to perhaps talking to you again sometime
making John this is real life on news Talk, sa'd be.
I'm John Cown. Looking forward to being back with you
again next Sunday Night.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Eat ZACKI doma. That's what.
Speaker 7 (23:18):
You tell me, Dad say had coming, but let's say
I forgot in.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
A sack dog. That's sama a na.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
In the nick about it, did Ay tap about in
a tap about?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
For more from Newstalk st B, Listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.