June 29, 2025 • 24 mins
Nicola Toki is a New Zealand conservationist and Chief Executive of Forest & Bird since 2022. Born in Invercargill, she grew up exploring the South Island, moving often for her father’s work as a ski-plane pilot.
With a background in zoology, ecology, and natural history filmmaking, Nicola has held various roles at the Department of Conservation, including Threatened Species Ambassador and Eastern South Island Operations Director.
She also co-hosts Critter of the Week on RNZ and presents Endangered Species Aotearoa on TVNZ, using storytelling to connect people with nature.
Nicola lives in North Canterbury with her husband and son and is a proud stepmother and grandmother.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real Life with John Cowen
on News Talk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good Day, Welcome to Real Life. I'm John Cowen.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I was asked some time ago who I'd like to
have a meal with someone living or dead the most
favorite person in the world, and instantly I said David
Attenborough because he is a real hero of mine and
the only person I can think of who had been
the same category in New Zealand is my guest tonight,
Nikola Talkie. Welcome Nicola, who are an absolute legend in
(00:58):
nature and advocacy for our beautiful country.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So it's great to have you on the show.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Okay, George on that that's super kind and I would
be right there with you in terms of, you know,
if we could sit around.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
The table with sit over Nett Brh.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
I saw him when he came to Auckland a few
years ago. Yeah, and you know, to me that was
like the equivalent of I don't know someone else going
to a Beance concert.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'm deeply envious. I'm deeply envious.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
So if you get the chance of jacking up a
meal with him, and you can have me as a
gooseberry along on the date.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'd be so so stoked.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
I once throw it to him and in anticipation of
him coming to New Zealand and kind of went, you know, please,
you know you've inspired my whole career, of my whole life,
and I'd do anything, and I'd love to meet with you.
And he couldn't, but he wrote me the loveliest letter back,
which I keep stowed in my copy of Life on Earth,
just as we remind.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Us it's fantastic. I'd have it framed on the wall.
Getting we're getting ahead of ourselves for our listeners. My
guest tonight is CEO of Forest and Bird, who spent
her lifetime dedicated to New Zealand's wildlife, and Nate Juresey's
worked and dark. She's done movies and TV shows and
it is on radio regularly, and she is you know,
(02:15):
if you were a wetter or a Kiwi or a Tuatara,
your biggest fan and champion was is Nikola TALKI. In fact,
every picture I've ever seen of you, you have used
to go to wetter on your hair or penguin pool
on your shoes.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Or something like that.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
It's so you've literally spent your whole life doing this.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Yeah, I have, and you're quite correct and a sneaky
little secret. I'm not particularly comfortable having, particularly having my
photo taken, and mostly that's because I talk all the
time and say, you know, there's my photos always not
ridiculous because my lips are but always moving.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
So and I find it quiet.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
I'm not sure if you do, but you know, you
get your official work photo taken, it's always somewhat.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
Forced and awkward.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
However, if I have a wetter in my hand, or
you know, I can tuck a cockapool into my arm,
it's an instant kind of relaxing into the I can
have this by day. So there's a tip for anyone
who ever wants to do publicity with me. As long
as this wild life involved, I'll probably be a better subject.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I think that's a tip for all of us that
are camera shy. I think if you, if you're nervous
of having your picture taken, just grab a wetter or
exactly and they go. So I mentioned that you've been
doing it all your life, but I mean, you really
did immerse yourself in nature right from your earliest days
with your dad and in the up in the mountains
(03:41):
and things.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
Yeah, I did, and I guess.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
I was really lucky because I had a childhood. We
moved around a lot around the South Island. I'm from
the Deep South. I was born in inver Cargol.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
We'll watch how you pronounce your ass exactly when I.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Go down there, it comes back.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I'm not sure if I'm right up there with you know,
purple work shirt, but it's close. So I grew up
in a cargo, spent a lot of time on my
nana's farm in the Catlans, and then my dad desperately
wanted to and my family we were never really into tramping,
and I'm still not, which is slightly awkward when I'm
(04:20):
talking to like, you know, real keen conservation are so
often trampers I and I tend to say, I don't
like shared accommodation. And further than that, if you're the
person that wakes up at five in the morning and
wrestles your scrogen, you're the reason.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
I'm not not just.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
But we were in wrestling scrog and here on radio very.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Often, but we were really into going out and camping
and fishing and you know, shooting rabbits and all that.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Yeah, I've continued that at least so uh.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
And then my dad, all he really wanted to do
was he was a fitter world by trade at Teaway
and he really wanted to fly ski planes at Mount
Cook at Artiki Mountcok National Park, and so he initially
he took a role as a top dresser loader for
a sort of civil you know, for a playing outfit
the own by Mount Cook. We moved to Mount Cook
(05:18):
and I had this incredible immersion right in the nature,
you know, Keir on the roof every morning, learning the
hard way not to leave my BMX outside because the key.
I thought that was great fun and ripped it to pieces.
And as a kid, you're not necessarily thinking about, oh
I love the environment and I love nature and whatever.
But it really resonated and it just never went away.
And part of that is two things. Because I've had
(05:42):
all these amazing experience at such a formative age, I
think in nature, and was supported by my family and
my wider family to do so. In big because I
don't think I've ever really grown up, so I'm still
that kid that loves nature and still gets really excited
when I come across it.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Well, I think you could be the biggest.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Advocate and best example of follow your passion because you
study and you went on and did the zoology and
law and actually that's a lot combo, yes, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Laura Laura and zoology.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
And I was repeatedly told at university that I would
never get a job with that combo, and I reckon
pretty much since I started in the workforce, and certainly
the last few jobs I've had, I used both of
those disciplines nearly every day and due to this day,
and I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
People would you would have confirmed people's ideas that you
were going to be chronically unemployable by doing media studies
as in postgraduate life you did a what is it
film production or something? Yeah, I was read, So you
rendered completely unemployable.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Totally, which is probably why I ended up selling the
fleece that came me into for the first year after
six years of university.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
But I was really lucky.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
I did the very first year that they ran the
postgraduate Diploma and Naturalistry Filmmaking, which was partnership within actual Ze,
which of course was the Naturalistry Unit, which I grew
up watching their films on a.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
Sunday, Wild South and Wild.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
South and the stories of the Black World, Robin and
the Carackopul and all of that, and so it just
all coalesced to, well, this is the thing I need
to do.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
So I was lucky, Yes.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
And since then you've been alternating between Doc and Forest
and Bird. You've had a stint in both, haven't you.
And then we've got done one, then gone to the other,
then gone back to the other, and bounce back, but
you come back at a higher rung each time.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
I'm the recidibus defender, and I did a stint in
Fonterra as well. And I also work for Osprey, which
was the Animal Health Board on pest control advocacy.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
And you know, poor old Doc.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
I think I've left it four times now, and every time,
you know, I get to the point where.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
I go that's it.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
I'm leaving and I'm never coming back, and it's like
a revolving door and then I find something else.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
I might like to do.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
But for now I'm pretty pretty happy with where I am.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Gosh, the next time you go back working for the
government will probably have to be as Prime minister, but
perhaps to talk about the politics later on. But as
part of that, you seem to have had a lot
of fun. I've been watching through some of your videos
and things that you've done, and you can barely stop grinning.
I mean, you're having so much much fun. You must
(08:16):
have enjoyed a lot of the stuff that you've done. Well,
go and give us some highlights. Let listeners in on
some of the fun that you've had.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Well.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
I guess that is something that I'm really passionate about too,
is having fun, because I think as we get into
the workforce, and I've definitely seen this in my career,
I've seen people give me the side eye and other
managers kind of look at me and kind of be
you know, what is she doing. She can't be working,
she's having fun. And I hate that we kind of
get that stamped out of us. It's perfectly okay to
(08:47):
have fun and still be highly productive and general, we
should be enjoying what we're doing, especially at work. West
need more time aga than with our families. So I'm
a big proponent of having fun. Loudly and in terms
of some of the fun that I've had I mean,
you can guarantee that I've been bitten by.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
Oh, I've got a great story to tell you.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
I once did a little I was filming a serious
called Meet the Locals, which was back when TVNZ had
six and seven were launched, which is coming up twenty.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Years ago now.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
And they were little four minute clips, and my favorite
one I ever did, even though I got to go
to places and see cockapool and bats and all that
kind of sish, we filmed two hundred episodes over a
three year period of these little four minute clips.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Right.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
The best one that I did, I reckon was in
the suburban backyard in Auckland, and I had sort of
maybe five seven year olds with me, and I borrowed
some tree wetter and I was showing these kids we
had to make wetter motels, and how to make a
lizard garden, how to bring nature to your backyard right
still back connection. And as I brought this wetter out,
it pinched me. It got me with its massive, big jewels.
(09:52):
It was one of those big, male, big jawed wetters,
and it got me.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Oh, take your word for it.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I'm never going to get that close to ones, but
you care crawling on.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
The handley, you know, which I'm quite happy with, especially Giantwinter,
because that just like perambulating kind of machines, they're pretty docile.
Wet are a fiery ass. And so this thing pinched
me right, probably the softest passed part of the inside
of my wrist, and it drew blood, and you know,
the kids started they saw it happen, and they were
sort of starting to freak out. And I didn't want
the kids to be afraid of nature or hate nature.
(10:23):
And you know, all I really wanted to do was
squash it on the table. By I just decided not to,
and the kids were kind of, it's biting you, and
I was like, h it's fine. It just it's just
telling me it loves me. So I've been bitten by many,
many things, and I consider that a privilege. My favorite
wildlife moment of all time, even though I've been able
(10:44):
to see Cuckaboard and Q and all that stuff, was
sitting in the mist nearly the rain in central North
Island with a bat in a little calico bag tucked
down my shirt while we caught more bats to be
able to process them and put.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
Little tags on them.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
And it just sat there and wriggled around and then
settled down. And then ultimately when we went to let
it go and I had it in my hand, it
ran up my arm, sat on my head and would
not leave. Had a bat hat for a little while,
and I thought that was amazing, a little.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Pecker pecker on your head.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yes, I mean a lot of people wouldn't even know
we had bats.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
No, And I think that's part of the that's probably
the greatest conservation challenge that we face at the moment
in New Zealand, which is no then the proportion of
people who believe that our wildlife is doing okay is
going up while it's a massive decline, and fundamentally people
just don't know what we've got here. And so my
kind of life goal is to shine a light on
(11:39):
these things so that people want to protect them.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
If you've just joined us, my guest tonight is the
CEO of Forest and Bird, and I'll be talking to
Nikolatokey after the break about more of her adventures with
what New Zealand Wildlife, and also a bit about where
she got her passion and how we can all share
in that as well. This is real life on Newstalk
ZEDB back in just a.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Minute, intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on
Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
If there's one thing in my life that's missing, it's
the time that I spend.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Long sailing on the cool.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
And Bradcue water. The loves of those friend Libbo.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Showing me ways to go, but I never want lose
their inspiration.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Welcome back to real life.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
My guess tonight is Nikola Talkie and she's chosen that
music for us.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Why.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
I mean, you just need to listen to the lyrics, John,
I am. My parents subjected me to a fair amount
of yacht rock when I was a kid, uh and rocky,
but I do love Little Riverband. But you know that
those lyrics about you know, if there's one thing in
my life that's missing, it's the time that I spent
alone and then on about dolphins and wales and albatros.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
That's that's my arouse Raison datra So.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
I thrashed that song far too much when I'm out
with friends and family, and it's good to give it
another airing.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I'm talking with Nikola Turkie, who's the CEO of Forest
and Bird, and she comes with a lot of experience
working with nature, but also talking with government and talking
with people and business and farmers and people that have
a steak in our beautiful country. And sometimes well sometimes
people are on your side. One of the people that
(13:45):
I was amazed that was so very much on your side.
I actually accused you of pushing him off a cliff
and that was our future king.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
Oh yeah, I was wondering where you were going with it.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yes, me, mate, Israel Highness Will.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Well, yeah, Prince Will and you.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Took him upper path I did.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
That is a very funny story, so I'm happy to
share it.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
So he was coming out to New Zealand or early
twenty ten. His team came out six months before and said, look,
he's coming to open the Supreme Court. I think he
was having a barbecue the then Prime Minister John keyeshouse.
He wanted to official engagements, but he loves like me,
he loves the nature, and he just wanted to go
(14:36):
somewhere and hang out in nature and not official, not
the kind of circus, right, And so we initially when
his team came out, when scoped out, had a look
at Carpodi Island, which is actually that's interesting because that brings.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
Me full circle to the forest and bird story, which
we'll get to a minute.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
And for whatever reason, I was chosen to take him
on a walk, and so we commenced on the walk,
and inevitably there was a circus. The prime Minister and
a whole lot of ministers came out initially, and we
had a little ceremony with some kids in a kiwi,
and then they all got put on a boat and
sent back to the mainland. And he and I wandered.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Off a fantastic idea putting them all on a boat
and sending them off.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
Couldn't possibly content.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
And you know, we were just like two little kids,
so we just started. He was spotting more wildlife than me,
probably because I was talking too much, and so you know,
we saw tucker hair, We saw a family of ruder
or more pork on a branch above us in the
middle of the day.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
And then we got to the top.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
And we were looking, oh, come on, how do you
get to see more pork in the middle of the day,
and nailed them to a branch just so well could
see them.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
I couldn't see anything because I was blah blah blah blah,
and he kind of clocked it and went, oh, well,
one are those birds And I was like, wow, okay,
so those are rude. And so we got to the
top and I was explaining about how early Mari and
then European whalers used the stretch between the island and
Carpany Coast as a sort of whaling you know, highway
(16:12):
if you like, and he kind of went, oh, yeah,
imagine if I fell off and from up here, and
I was like, no, thanks, because that would be.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
The end of my job.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
And then we kind of had to laugh, and we
carried out back down the hill and I could see
the Director General of Conservation and some very nervous looking
doc officials waiting where there was a helicopter waiting to
take him to John Keat's house for a barbecue. And
as we started walking out down the path out of
the bush and into the clearing, he very exaggeratedly started
(16:41):
limping and he yelled out to everyone.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
She pushed me, she pushed me.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
He thought that was the greatest trick ever.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
So it would I mean, and he has gone by.
He could have got to beheaded, but not very likely
these days.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
But no, but it was wonderful.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
He just and this makes me sound like such a
big note, but I had actually previously met his father
when I had been responsible for kind of looking after
the media at Tyro Ahead when I first started in
my dog job, where they and Prince Charles came to
look at the Albatross colony there and so my job
(17:21):
was to sort of corral these hardened fleet street journals.
And so we talked about that a little bit when
I was on Cobdy Island and generally just took how
much we love nature, and like I say, we were
like two little kids.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
It was great fun.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
It's great that our future king does that, but I
just thought it wish New Zealanders appreciated their country a
little bit more. And can I just remind listeners that
you own about one and a half football fields of
New Zealand, we share it.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
There's about a third.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Of New Zealand in the in the conservation estate, and
so that means each of us has about four and
a half acres.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Isn't that a nice idea?
Speaker 5 (18:03):
It's a lovely idea.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
And you're speaking my language because I think you know,
there are a lot of concerning statistics to me in
my role and in my previous roles that give me
the made me nervous, you know, make me really worried.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
And one is, of course, New.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Zealand has the highest proportion of threatened species of any
country in the world. And we are you know, we
love to be number one, the first to give woman
the vote, and we were the first to get the
man on everest. And the we're the worst.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
It's thritten species.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
The more concerning statistic is the one about New Zealander
is not realizing that our wildlife is in trouble.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
And so so there's.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
A real disconnect in terms of the story that we're
telling ourselves. And it's interesting because the flip side to
that is there are some really compelling research that's been
done around how New Zealanders consider themselves people of nature
and people of the bush and the mountains and the sea.
And at a time when eighty seven percent of us
live in towns. What worries me at the moment is
that the sort of cumulative impact of death by a
(19:03):
thousand cuts of just oh, we'll just take a little
bit more over here, and we'll just destroy this little
piece over here. And it's okay that we wreck this
bit because there's some more over there means actually we're
losing exactly right, all of our collective ownership and responsibility
and future generations access to these places that we love.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I know that you took part in a march back
and was at twenty ten ten thousand New Zealanders campaigning
forty thousand.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I beg your pardon, you know, and.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
John Key listened yes and reverse decisions about mining on
conservation land. But we're back there again, aren't we.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Yeah, we are, and it's really concerning, and we're back
there in a really sneaky way because the avalanche of
regulatory and legislative reform at the moment. And you know,
I'm not going to pack on governments because I'm in
the privileged position where for us who doesn't pick favorites,
we don't mind what flavor government jersey you.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Wear, as long as we can work with you on
shared outcomes.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I bet I could lean on you to share your
favorite carry on.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
But what's happening is the scale and the speed of
the regulatory reforms being struck back in terms of protections
for nature is so fast and so massive that no
New Zealander can keep up, let alone us who are
kind of you know, perfectly positioned and record. You know,
it's our job to give nature a voice in that context.
I've told my team it's like drinking coke from a
(20:30):
fire hose, just trying to keep on top of all
that reform. And I'm worried that new Zealanders out there
every day, who may live in cities and not get
out in the nature as much, but really like knowing
that it's there to be protected, might not have eyes
on the things that we're losing.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
And yeah, what are we doing.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
We're back to trying to dig up conservation land in
the very places that John Key backtracked on.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
It's silly.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
People don't have that shorter memory.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Maybe they do, maybe they do.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
Well, maybe they shouldn't. It's remind them.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Okay, well that's your role, and I'm glad that you're
doing that so well. And So in Forest and Bird,
how do you get your message out there? What's the
what's the mode of operation of Forest and Bird?
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Yeah, a great question.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
So we've been around for one hundred years and our
strap line, if you like, is, you know, to give
nature a voice, and we do that in a number
of ways. So one of the things our founder was
really strong on was two things. He said that we
were to be not I won't say apolitical, because we
kicked politicians and missions depending on what's going on, depending
(21:40):
on you know, and of all governments if we are
trying to protect nature, but we are non partisan. And
the other thing was he was adamant that kids should
be included in nature and he created and paved the
way for our Kiwi Conservation Club, which is like little Kids,
and now we have a youth network. And interestingly, everywhere
I go, particularly when I'm working with business is one
(22:01):
of my big big bosses. When I worked at Fonterra
said to me, oh, you came from Forest and Bird
because this is my second nmera. She was like as
a cacc kid, And that happens often, right. So we
do it through active participation with people out there on nature.
We own a bunch of we own a lot of
land and we do conservation projects on that. People most
know us for our advocacy and so giving nature a voice,
(22:23):
whether it's through protests, through through kind of quirky fun
educated educate educational stuff like for example, Bird of the
Year or Bird of the Century, which went bonkers.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
And we do it.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
I meet with Prime Minister regularly and other cabinet ministers
and we get around the table and try and find
it a common way forward for the things that New
Zealanders love. And to give you a good example, this week,
I have been at the primary Industry's big flash conference
at the invitation of federated farmers. Now often for some burden,
federated farmers are, you know, jerking it out in court.
(22:57):
And we increasingly have worked on always the middle of
the end diagram and how can we work together for
these things that both farmers and conservationists love.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I'm sure clever farmers realize that they're industry depends on
clean water and a healthy biosphere and everything. But unfortunately
sometimes those that grab the mic don't seem to understand that.
Nikola has been great talking with you. Thank you so
much for your passion on behalf of every New Zealander
and every fantail and every two atara. I just want
(23:26):
to say thank you for the work that you're doing
and I wish you and Forrest and Bird every success.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Gilder, thanks so much for having means has been lovely.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
We'll go out on another song that you've picked, which is.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Homeland, Homeland and Sea by Trinity Roots.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
It's lovely.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Thank you very much, Nicola, and I look forward to
being back with everyone next Sunday Night. Versus John Cown
on Real Life on Newstalk seid B
Speaker 1 (24:20):
For more from News Talks at B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real Life with John Cowen
on News Talk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good Day, Welcome to Real Life. I'm John Cowen.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I was asked some time ago who I'd like to
have a meal with someone living or dead the most
favorite person in the world, and instantly I said David
Attenborough because he is a real hero of mine and
the only person I can think of who had been
the same category in New Zealand is my guest tonight,
Nikola Talkie. Welcome Nicola, who are an absolute legend in
(00:58):
nature and advocacy for our beautiful country.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So it's great to have you on the show.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Okay, George on that that's super kind and I would
be right there with you in terms of, you know,
if we could sit around.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
The table with sit over Nett Brh.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
I saw him when he came to Auckland a few
years ago. Yeah, and you know, to me that was
like the equivalent of I don't know someone else going
to a Beance concert.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'm deeply envious. I'm deeply envious.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
So if you get the chance of jacking up a
meal with him, and you can have me as a
gooseberry along on the date.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'd be so so stoked.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
I once throw it to him and in anticipation of
him coming to New Zealand and kind of went, you know, please,
you know you've inspired my whole career, of my whole life,
and I'd do anything, and I'd love to meet with you.
And he couldn't, but he wrote me the loveliest letter back,
which I keep stowed in my copy of Life on Earth,
just as we remind.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Us it's fantastic. I'd have it framed on the wall.
Getting we're getting ahead of ourselves for our listeners. My
guest tonight is CEO of Forest and Bird, who spent
her lifetime dedicated to New Zealand's wildlife, and Nate Juresey's
worked and dark. She's done movies and TV shows and
it is on radio regularly, and she is you know,
(02:15):
if you were a wetter or a Kiwi or a Tuatara,
your biggest fan and champion was is Nikola TALKI. In fact,
every picture I've ever seen of you, you have used
to go to wetter on your hair or penguin pool
on your shoes.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Or something like that.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
It's so you've literally spent your whole life doing this.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Yeah, I have, and you're quite correct and a sneaky
little secret. I'm not particularly comfortable having, particularly having my
photo taken, and mostly that's because I talk all the
time and say, you know, there's my photos always not
ridiculous because my lips are but always moving.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
So and I find it quiet.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
I'm not sure if you do, but you know, you
get your official work photo taken, it's always somewhat.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
Forced and awkward.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
However, if I have a wetter in my hand, or
you know, I can tuck a cockapool into my arm,
it's an instant kind of relaxing into the I can
have this by day. So there's a tip for anyone
who ever wants to do publicity with me. As long
as this wild life involved, I'll probably be a better subject.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I think that's a tip for all of us that
are camera shy. I think if you, if you're nervous
of having your picture taken, just grab a wetter or
exactly and they go. So I mentioned that you've been
doing it all your life, but I mean, you really
did immerse yourself in nature right from your earliest days
with your dad and in the up in the mountains
(03:41):
and things.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
Yeah, I did, and I guess.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
I was really lucky because I had a childhood. We
moved around a lot around the South Island. I'm from
the Deep South. I was born in inver Cargol.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
We'll watch how you pronounce your ass exactly when I.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Go down there, it comes back.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I'm not sure if I'm right up there with you know,
purple work shirt, but it's close. So I grew up
in a cargo, spent a lot of time on my
nana's farm in the Catlans, and then my dad desperately
wanted to and my family we were never really into tramping,
and I'm still not, which is slightly awkward when I'm
(04:20):
talking to like, you know, real keen conservation are so
often trampers I and I tend to say, I don't
like shared accommodation. And further than that, if you're the
person that wakes up at five in the morning and
wrestles your scrogen, you're the reason.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
I'm not not just.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
But we were in wrestling scrog and here on radio very.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Often, but we were really into going out and camping
and fishing and you know, shooting rabbits and all that.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Yeah, I've continued that at least so uh.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
And then my dad, all he really wanted to do
was he was a fitter world by trade at Teaway
and he really wanted to fly ski planes at Mount
Cook at Artiki Mountcok National Park, and so he initially
he took a role as a top dresser loader for
a sort of civil you know, for a playing outfit
the own by Mount Cook. We moved to Mount Cook
(05:18):
and I had this incredible immersion right in the nature,
you know, Keir on the roof every morning, learning the
hard way not to leave my BMX outside because the key.
I thought that was great fun and ripped it to pieces.
And as a kid, you're not necessarily thinking about, oh
I love the environment and I love nature and whatever.
But it really resonated and it just never went away.
And part of that is two things. Because I've had
(05:42):
all these amazing experience at such a formative age, I
think in nature, and was supported by my family and
my wider family to do so. In big because I
don't think I've ever really grown up, so I'm still
that kid that loves nature and still gets really excited
when I come across it.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Well, I think you could be the biggest.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Advocate and best example of follow your passion because you
study and you went on and did the zoology and
law and actually that's a lot combo, yes, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Laura Laura and zoology.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
And I was repeatedly told at university that I would
never get a job with that combo, and I reckon
pretty much since I started in the workforce, and certainly
the last few jobs I've had, I used both of
those disciplines nearly every day and due to this day,
and I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
People would you would have confirmed people's ideas that you
were going to be chronically unemployable by doing media studies
as in postgraduate life you did a what is it
film production or something? Yeah, I was read, So you
rendered completely unemployable.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Totally, which is probably why I ended up selling the
fleece that came me into for the first year after
six years of university.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
But I was really lucky.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
I did the very first year that they ran the
postgraduate Diploma and Naturalistry Filmmaking, which was partnership within actual Ze,
which of course was the Naturalistry Unit, which I grew
up watching their films on a.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
Sunday, Wild South and Wild.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
South and the stories of the Black World, Robin and
the Carackopul and all of that, and so it just
all coalesced to, well, this is the thing I need
to do.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
So I was lucky, Yes.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
And since then you've been alternating between Doc and Forest
and Bird. You've had a stint in both, haven't you.
And then we've got done one, then gone to the other,
then gone back to the other, and bounce back, but
you come back at a higher rung each time.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
I'm the recidibus defender, and I did a stint in
Fonterra as well. And I also work for Osprey, which
was the Animal Health Board on pest control advocacy.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
And you know, poor old Doc.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
I think I've left it four times now, and every time,
you know, I get to the point where.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
I go that's it.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
I'm leaving and I'm never coming back, and it's like
a revolving door and then I find something else.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
I might like to do.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
But for now I'm pretty pretty happy with where I am.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Gosh, the next time you go back working for the
government will probably have to be as Prime minister, but
perhaps to talk about the politics later on. But as
part of that, you seem to have had a lot
of fun. I've been watching through some of your videos
and things that you've done, and you can barely stop grinning.
I mean, you're having so much much fun. You must
(08:16):
have enjoyed a lot of the stuff that you've done. Well,
go and give us some highlights. Let listeners in on
some of the fun that you've had.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Well.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
I guess that is something that I'm really passionate about too,
is having fun, because I think as we get into
the workforce, and I've definitely seen this in my career,
I've seen people give me the side eye and other
managers kind of look at me and kind of be
you know, what is she doing. She can't be working,
she's having fun. And I hate that we kind of
get that stamped out of us. It's perfectly okay to
(08:47):
have fun and still be highly productive and general, we
should be enjoying what we're doing, especially at work. West
need more time aga than with our families. So I'm
a big proponent of having fun. Loudly and in terms
of some of the fun that I've had I mean,
you can guarantee that I've been bitten by.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
Oh, I've got a great story to tell you.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
I once did a little I was filming a serious
called Meet the Locals, which was back when TVNZ had
six and seven were launched, which is coming up twenty.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Years ago now.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
And they were little four minute clips, and my favorite
one I ever did, even though I got to go
to places and see cockapool and bats and all that
kind of sish, we filmed two hundred episodes over a
three year period of these little four minute clips.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Right.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
The best one that I did, I reckon was in
the suburban backyard in Auckland, and I had sort of
maybe five seven year olds with me, and I borrowed
some tree wetter and I was showing these kids we
had to make wetter motels, and how to make a
lizard garden, how to bring nature to your backyard right
still back connection. And as I brought this wetter out,
it pinched me. It got me with its massive, big jewels.
(09:52):
It was one of those big, male, big jawed wetters,
and it got me.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Oh, take your word for it.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I'm never going to get that close to ones, but
you care crawling on.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
The handley, you know, which I'm quite happy with, especially Giantwinter,
because that just like perambulating kind of machines, they're pretty docile.
Wet are a fiery ass. And so this thing pinched
me right, probably the softest passed part of the inside
of my wrist, and it drew blood, and you know,
the kids started they saw it happen, and they were
sort of starting to freak out. And I didn't want
the kids to be afraid of nature or hate nature.
(10:23):
And you know, all I really wanted to do was
squash it on the table. By I just decided not to,
and the kids were kind of, it's biting you, and
I was like, h it's fine. It just it's just
telling me it loves me. So I've been bitten by many,
many things, and I consider that a privilege. My favorite
wildlife moment of all time, even though I've been able
(10:44):
to see Cuckaboard and Q and all that stuff, was
sitting in the mist nearly the rain in central North
Island with a bat in a little calico bag tucked
down my shirt while we caught more bats to be
able to process them and put.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
Little tags on them.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
And it just sat there and wriggled around and then
settled down. And then ultimately when we went to let
it go and I had it in my hand, it
ran up my arm, sat on my head and would
not leave. Had a bat hat for a little while,
and I thought that was amazing, a little.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Pecker pecker on your head.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yes, I mean a lot of people wouldn't even know
we had bats.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
No, And I think that's part of the that's probably
the greatest conservation challenge that we face at the moment
in New Zealand, which is no then the proportion of
people who believe that our wildlife is doing okay is
going up while it's a massive decline, and fundamentally people
just don't know what we've got here. And so my
kind of life goal is to shine a light on
(11:39):
these things so that people want to protect them.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
If you've just joined us, my guest tonight is the
CEO of Forest and Bird, and I'll be talking to
Nikolatokey after the break about more of her adventures with
what New Zealand Wildlife, and also a bit about where
she got her passion and how we can all share
in that as well. This is real life on Newstalk
ZEDB back in just a.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Minute, intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on
Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
If there's one thing in my life that's missing, it's
the time that I spend.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Long sailing on the cool.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
And Bradcue water. The loves of those friend Libbo.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Showing me ways to go, but I never want lose
their inspiration.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Welcome back to real life.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
My guess tonight is Nikola Talkie and she's chosen that
music for us.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Why.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
I mean, you just need to listen to the lyrics, John,
I am. My parents subjected me to a fair amount
of yacht rock when I was a kid, uh and rocky,
but I do love Little Riverband. But you know that
those lyrics about you know, if there's one thing in
my life that's missing, it's the time that I spent
alone and then on about dolphins and wales and albatros.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
That's that's my arouse Raison datra So.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
I thrashed that song far too much when I'm out
with friends and family, and it's good to give it
another airing.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I'm talking with Nikola Turkie, who's the CEO of Forest
and Bird, and she comes with a lot of experience
working with nature, but also talking with government and talking
with people and business and farmers and people that have
a steak in our beautiful country. And sometimes well sometimes
people are on your side. One of the people that
(13:45):
I was amazed that was so very much on your side.
I actually accused you of pushing him off a cliff
and that was our future king.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
Oh yeah, I was wondering where you were going with it.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yes, me, mate, Israel Highness Will.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Well, yeah, Prince Will and you.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Took him upper path I did.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
That is a very funny story, so I'm happy to
share it.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
So he was coming out to New Zealand or early
twenty ten. His team came out six months before and said, look,
he's coming to open the Supreme Court. I think he
was having a barbecue the then Prime Minister John keyeshouse.
He wanted to official engagements, but he loves like me,
he loves the nature, and he just wanted to go
(14:36):
somewhere and hang out in nature and not official, not
the kind of circus, right, And so we initially when
his team came out, when scoped out, had a look
at Carpodi Island, which is actually that's interesting because that brings.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
Me full circle to the forest and bird story, which
we'll get to a minute.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
And for whatever reason, I was chosen to take him
on a walk, and so we commenced on the walk,
and inevitably there was a circus. The prime Minister and
a whole lot of ministers came out initially, and we
had a little ceremony with some kids in a kiwi,
and then they all got put on a boat and
sent back to the mainland. And he and I wandered.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Off a fantastic idea putting them all on a boat
and sending them off.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
Couldn't possibly content.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
And you know, we were just like two little kids,
so we just started. He was spotting more wildlife than me,
probably because I was talking too much, and so you know,
we saw tucker hair, We saw a family of ruder
or more pork on a branch above us in the
middle of the day.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
And then we got to the top.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
And we were looking, oh, come on, how do you
get to see more pork in the middle of the day,
and nailed them to a branch just so well could
see them.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
I couldn't see anything because I was blah blah blah blah,
and he kind of clocked it and went, oh, well,
one are those birds And I was like, wow, okay,
so those are rude. And so we got to the
top and I was explaining about how early Mari and
then European whalers used the stretch between the island and
Carpany Coast as a sort of whaling you know, highway
(16:12):
if you like, and he kind of went, oh, yeah,
imagine if I fell off and from up here, and
I was like, no, thanks, because that would be.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
The end of my job.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
And then we kind of had to laugh, and we
carried out back down the hill and I could see
the Director General of Conservation and some very nervous looking
doc officials waiting where there was a helicopter waiting to
take him to John Keat's house for a barbecue. And
as we started walking out down the path out of
the bush and into the clearing, he very exaggeratedly started
(16:41):
limping and he yelled out to everyone.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
She pushed me, she pushed me.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
He thought that was the greatest trick ever.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
So it would I mean, and he has gone by.
He could have got to beheaded, but not very likely
these days.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
But no, but it was wonderful.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
He just and this makes me sound like such a
big note, but I had actually previously met his father
when I had been responsible for kind of looking after
the media at Tyro Ahead when I first started in
my dog job, where they and Prince Charles came to
look at the Albatross colony there and so my job
(17:21):
was to sort of corral these hardened fleet street journals.
And so we talked about that a little bit when
I was on Cobdy Island and generally just took how
much we love nature, and like I say, we were
like two little kids.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
It was great fun.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
It's great that our future king does that, but I
just thought it wish New Zealanders appreciated their country a
little bit more. And can I just remind listeners that
you own about one and a half football fields of
New Zealand, we share it.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
There's about a third.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Of New Zealand in the in the conservation estate, and
so that means each of us has about four and
a half acres.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Isn't that a nice idea?
Speaker 5 (18:03):
It's a lovely idea.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
And you're speaking my language because I think you know,
there are a lot of concerning statistics to me in
my role and in my previous roles that give me
the made me nervous, you know, make me really worried.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
And one is, of course, New.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Zealand has the highest proportion of threatened species of any
country in the world. And we are you know, we
love to be number one, the first to give woman
the vote, and we were the first to get the
man on everest. And the we're the worst.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
It's thritten species.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
The more concerning statistic is the one about New Zealander
is not realizing that our wildlife is in trouble.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
And so so there's.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
A real disconnect in terms of the story that we're
telling ourselves. And it's interesting because the flip side to
that is there are some really compelling research that's been
done around how New Zealanders consider themselves people of nature
and people of the bush and the mountains and the sea.
And at a time when eighty seven percent of us
live in towns. What worries me at the moment is
that the sort of cumulative impact of death by a
(19:03):
thousand cuts of just oh, we'll just take a little
bit more over here, and we'll just destroy this little
piece over here. And it's okay that we wreck this
bit because there's some more over there means actually we're
losing exactly right, all of our collective ownership and responsibility
and future generations access to these places that we love.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I know that you took part in a march back
and was at twenty ten ten thousand New Zealanders campaigning
forty thousand.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I beg your pardon, you know, and.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
John Key listened yes and reverse decisions about mining on
conservation land. But we're back there again, aren't we.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Yeah, we are, and it's really concerning, and we're back
there in a really sneaky way because the avalanche of
regulatory and legislative reform at the moment. And you know,
I'm not going to pack on governments because I'm in
the privileged position where for us who doesn't pick favorites,
we don't mind what flavor government jersey you.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Wear, as long as we can work with you on
shared outcomes.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I bet I could lean on you to share your
favorite carry on.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
But what's happening is the scale and the speed of
the regulatory reforms being struck back in terms of protections
for nature is so fast and so massive that no
New Zealander can keep up, let alone us who are
kind of you know, perfectly positioned and record. You know,
it's our job to give nature a voice in that context.
I've told my team it's like drinking coke from a
(20:30):
fire hose, just trying to keep on top of all
that reform. And I'm worried that new Zealanders out there
every day, who may live in cities and not get
out in the nature as much, but really like knowing
that it's there to be protected, might not have eyes
on the things that we're losing.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
And yeah, what are we doing.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
We're back to trying to dig up conservation land in
the very places that John Key backtracked on.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
It's silly.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
People don't have that shorter memory.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Maybe they do, maybe they do.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
Well, maybe they shouldn't. It's remind them.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Okay, well that's your role, and I'm glad that you're
doing that so well. And So in Forest and Bird,
how do you get your message out there? What's the
what's the mode of operation of Forest and Bird?
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Yeah, a great question.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
So we've been around for one hundred years and our
strap line, if you like, is, you know, to give
nature a voice, and we do that in a number
of ways. So one of the things our founder was
really strong on was two things. He said that we
were to be not I won't say apolitical, because we
kicked politicians and missions depending on what's going on, depending
(21:40):
on you know, and of all governments if we are
trying to protect nature, but we are non partisan. And
the other thing was he was adamant that kids should
be included in nature and he created and paved the
way for our Kiwi Conservation Club, which is like little Kids,
and now we have a youth network. And interestingly, everywhere
I go, particularly when I'm working with business is one
(22:01):
of my big big bosses. When I worked at Fonterra
said to me, oh, you came from Forest and Bird
because this is my second nmera. She was like as
a cacc kid, And that happens often, right. So we
do it through active participation with people out there on nature.
We own a bunch of we own a lot of
land and we do conservation projects on that. People most
know us for our advocacy and so giving nature a voice,
(22:23):
whether it's through protests, through through kind of quirky fun
educated educate educational stuff like for example, Bird of the
Year or Bird of the Century, which went bonkers.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
And we do it.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
I meet with Prime Minister regularly and other cabinet ministers
and we get around the table and try and find
it a common way forward for the things that New
Zealanders love. And to give you a good example, this week,
I have been at the primary Industry's big flash conference
at the invitation of federated farmers. Now often for some burden,
federated farmers are, you know, jerking it out in court.
(22:57):
And we increasingly have worked on always the middle of
the end diagram and how can we work together for
these things that both farmers and conservationists love.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I'm sure clever farmers realize that they're industry depends on
clean water and a healthy biosphere and everything. But unfortunately
sometimes those that grab the mic don't seem to understand that.
Nikola has been great talking with you. Thank you so
much for your passion on behalf of every New Zealander
and every fantail and every two atara. I just want
(23:26):
to say thank you for the work that you're doing
and I wish you and Forrest and Bird every success.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Gilder, thanks so much for having means has been lovely.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
We'll go out on another song that you've picked, which is.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Homeland, Homeland and Sea by Trinity Roots.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
It's lovely.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Thank you very much, Nicola, and I look forward to
being back with everyone next Sunday Night. Versus John Cown
on Real Life on Newstalk seid B
Speaker 1 (24:20):
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air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
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Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com