June 27, 2024 • 37 mins
Mark Vette is an internationally renowned animal behaviourist, trainer, educator, author and TV personality.
He’s also the founder of Dog Zen, a dog training programme.
Mark joins Francesca Rudkin on Newstalk ZB to take your calls about your pet’s behaviour.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the carry Wood and Morning's podcast from
Newstalk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Good morning, Welcome to this mars Adiki Morning show here
on news Talks dB. I'm Francisco Vudkin with you until
midday to day. We have got a holiday special for
you coming up on the show. After eleven, I'll be
joined by brain Fit coach Jude Walter to talk us
through staying on top of our brain health. We spend
a lot of time looking after our health, don't we,
(00:33):
But how often do we actually think about looking after
our brains. We're going to talk about whether it really
is a case of use it or lose it when
it comes to our brains, and spoiler alert, it is yeah,
gotta use it at all ages. So we're going to
be talking about that after eleven at ten are familiar
voices back with us, Allison Gofton. Now we are constantly
(00:56):
talking about the cost of living and grocery prices going up,
So Allison is going to have some tips and tricks
to make your dollars go further at the supermarket and
answer any questions that you have. Kicking us off this holthough,
we have Mark Vetti. Mark is an internationally renowned animal behaviorist, trainer, educator,
author and TV personality and founder of Dogs in a
(01:17):
Dog Training program. Mark is here to take your calls
about your pet's behavior. So you can call now on
eight hundred eighty ten eighty or text on ninety two
ninety two. And good morning to you Mark.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Hi, Francesca, how are you.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I'm really good, so good to have you with us.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Great, great to be here on Marto Riki weekend. A
lovely day down here at waa Bee is just exquisite.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Oh fantastic. It is a beautiful day in Auckland. I
hope it is the same around the country. A friend
of mine, it's really interesting that I'm talking to you.
I feel like it's a sign, because a friend of
mine sent through some photos of these absolutely adorable puppies
that her dog has just had. I mean, you know,
it's hard not to photograph for puppy well right, but
(02:03):
you know they get you, and so then of course
I'm just sitting there going, oh, you know, how am
I going to convince the rest of the family. Well,
it actually be very easy to convince the rest of
the family to get a puppy. It's just my partner
who was well aware of the fact that all our
hedges don't have you know, fences in them, and and
he loves his lawn. But I was thinking, actually, is
(02:23):
winter a good time to get a puppy because they
do require to be inside a little bit, don't they?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Or yeah, well, it varies a little bit in terms
of it's probably easier in many ways to do it
in the summer because the weather issues, you know, getting
out in the mudin and all that other stuff. But
really it's not so critical as exactly when you do it.
It's more important to do it at the right time
and the puppies life, you know, you know, get the
(02:51):
puppy at the right time in their life. And of
course that's eight weeks and so you know, the most
important thing is make sure you get your puppy at
the right time. You can kind of deal with weather
and other issues, but it's what you do in that
first two months, the forwarded period of the dog's life
that is absolutely critical. And you know, eighty percent of
the brain wires up through that time, so that's the
(03:12):
time when you want to be wirying it up in
other words, training them and socializing them and just just
moving on from there then into teenagehood and adultthood. But
it's just making sure you get them at the right
time in that early stage, do the right things that
need to be done at that time, and that's basically
most importantly socialization and some basic training and then yeah,
(03:35):
then you're going to have a great pup and how
you fit them into your life and into your weather,
in your yard and so on. Then we go into
great detail and our books and training schools about how
to set them up. It's not rocket science, but really
good to do it the right way.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And of course you're here to help our callers today
as well. If you do happen to have a pup
and you are but worried about the training and the socializing,
do feel free to give us a call. I wait,
one hundred eighty ten eighty Tex ninety two ninety two.
That's what Mark's here for. So Mark, get them around
the eight week mark. The next two months that you
have them is crucial, as you say, how you train
(04:10):
them and how you socialize them. So what kind of
training and socializing is going on there?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Well, I mean the important thing is if you think
back to the ancestral wolf, you know, that was the
ancestor to the dog and co evolved with us for
forty thousand years and became the dog. And and so
we're always looking back at what the ancestral behaviors were
during that period and the ancestral wolf's life and then
later the dog's life, and that's the most important thing
(04:37):
that's happening in the two to four month period. They've
just let mum and come out to the pack and
that's you, the family, and so they're bonding and joining
up with you during that two to four month period,
and that's exactly what they're doing with their pack and
the wild. And by four to five months they head
off because the wolf was a migratory hunter, so they
(05:00):
hunker down to have the letter, and then at the
end around four months, they all head off again and
their life is about migratory hunting. So that's the way
it evolved. And of course that's over many millions of years,
so what we now so now we should know that
this is the time when they're socializing and learning who
(05:21):
their extended family is. That's the most important job during
that two to four month period, and of course it's
exactly what we want them to do is to learn
who their extended family is. And we want to make
sure that that extended family includes lots of different people,
different races, different age classes, all of those things. If
you isolate them, they'll become discriminating and they'll only like
(05:43):
what they've grown up with. So make sure you extend
them out into a broader group of people and dogs
and other species. You've got three jobs with socialization, people, dogs,
and other species, and so that's really your focus on
that first part. And building a bond with the family
and particularly their initial the main owner or trainer if
(06:05):
there's one, and it's always good to have a broad
family group that are training, not just one, but they
will bond tend to bond with one more strongly, and
so that's really your main job. And then building what
I call a shared language over that time, which are
your commands. You know, your cues that you're going to
use to relate to the dog and relate them to
the world. So that's really what your main job is.
(06:28):
We go through with our Puppy School in great detail
all the different most important things, how to house train,
how to develop bite inhibition, how to learn to bond
with you how to you know, the type of richment
products you should have, right through to sound desensitization and
(06:49):
avoiding phobias and you know, those types of things. They're
trying to really broaden the dog's ability to learn. I
hear you. You've got a neuroscientist sign of it later
talking about the brain. Well, the brain is very much
what we're working with as a pup to really broaden
their ability to deal with the world, to deal with
novel things, to deal with noise, to deal with traffic.
(07:12):
You know, these aren't things dogs evolved to learn about,
but they're very capable to learn about them.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And that's why Mike everybody says it's like having another
child when you get that. Puffy leads into the phone, Lee,
good morning.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
Good morning. How are you. We've We've got a four
year old golden lab. He's a lovely dog, very athletic,
does everything right, except he pulls on the lead all
the time, and we just we've been trying all sorts
of things to try and stop them doing that, but
he just pulls all the time when you're taking him
for a walk. So yes, difficult, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Really really for that. Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely it's a
classic problem. I mean labs, of course, being so highly
social and normally anyway and keen and interested in rushing
up to people and other dogs, you know that that
everything and anything. And of course there's a strong scent
dog there being one hundred.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Breed, also very athletic. He's a very strong dog too, yes.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yes, well, I mean on the school, what we teach
in particular is the joining up technique right from the start,
right from and that doesn't matter what age you start that.
So joining up is my signature technique about building the bond.
And what I did was looked at the ancestral wolf.
I studied wolf behavior for a long time, and when
you look at the way they bond with their pack
(08:38):
and their and their family, what I've done is mimic
those techniques. And one of the main things that happens
for a mammal as they're developing in the early stages
is what's called the follower response. The follower response, I
mean you can see it even in a sheep walking
over the hill with the lamb at heel, you know,
And so that's exactly what we're after to build a
(08:58):
heel command on a dog, and so I use click
of training as my main tool. Obviously we go on onto.
We also have leads. We'll have a slip lead, and
we might in this case for him, look at whether
we use a halty collar or a gentle leader. If
he's a real puller. That's a good way to gain control.
And it's more a management tool, but it's a really
(09:21):
useful tool in the interim while you're trying to teach
a dog like that to walk at hell, but getting
on you've got to hold that effect. Do you find
that effect?
Speaker 6 (09:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (09:33):
It does. Yeah, you just got to keep going for
a long time whether it do or yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Well, I mean if if you pair that with a clicker,
you'll see, you know. And I've offered a an opportunity
for to jump on the school if they want to
punch in Facebook fifty as your code and you can
jump on for fifty percent for the first month, and
what you can do is follow that. So in that case,
what we're doing with lead walking is want you to
(10:00):
do the joining up technique and you'll you'll learn that
very quickly, and that's a very effici way to get
the heel command. But then I move to what I
call the embolical work, the mbolicas where I clip the
lead to my hip, doing this inside and a controlled
environment initially because he will pull you over outside of
the moment, and using the clicker. I use the clicker
(10:21):
to shape his behavior to move with me, stop, lie
down when I stop, look to me for direction. I
use what's called a bond gaze as well, where they
look up at your eyes you click and reward them.
I don't know whether you know what a clicker is.
With a clicker as a noise making little noise making gadget,
you hold your hand and you always pair food with that.
(10:42):
And when you use a clicker, it just increases the
learning ability of a dog five to ten times. So
it's a very rapid way for the dog to stay
in learning state and for you to accurately mark the
behavior that you want them to do. And therein lies
the problem for most dogs. Two things. For a labrador,
they're out of learning state when they're hyper excited like that.
(11:03):
And so if they're not learning state, they're to learn
how to do that thing and change their behavior. So
we want them in learning state, so we use a clicker.
We've got a pouch on, we've got a slip collar
and or a faulty depending on which one helpfully the
dog is, and we work with that clicker tool. We've
got that nice what it call onmbolical response where they're
(11:24):
moving with you. After a little while, you won't need
the lead. The dog moves with you, stots some new stock,
lies down, looks up at you, and the dog's in
learning state while he's doing those behaviors, which is the
critical issue about three teaching a new behavior. We're teaching
this behavior to get control. So the other thing is
I use in eighty twenty rule when I'm walking, I
(11:44):
normally run a dog like that on a long line
or a retractable lead as well, And so it makes
a lot About eighty percent of the time the dog
gets to sniff and check things out, and do you
know what a labrador is going to want to do,
And the most importantly, you know, with a million to
two million times better sense of smell. And we've got
obviously old faction and the desire to smell things is
(12:05):
really high and a dog and so let them let
them manifest that and express it and do it. But
at the same time, twenty percent of the time you're
working them when you get near roads, when you get
near to situation, you put them into work and make
sure they're doing what you need them to do when
you need that control. So it's often a good idea
to alternate between those two things, not just you know,
(12:28):
you see a lot of people just working, working, working,
and they sour their dog of the work and the
dog doesn't get to express itself as a dog. So
you know, those are the tools and techniques that I use. Initially,
you'll notice that we use a slip line and a clicker.
So with the slip lead, it's pressure on it's a
bit uncomfortable as they pull out on it. When they
(12:50):
come off the pressure, when we ask them to come
off the pressure, we click and reward them. That's called
contrast training. So you're always offering a dog contrast for
it to learn something new. And so by doing that
you'll learn the dog will learn much better to walk
on lead calmly and with those techniques. And there's several
others that go in relation to the heel command, but
(13:15):
that's certainly something that's worth getting good control over. And
typical lab that they're going to be bully, that's not.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Unusual it's amazing help. Thank you so much, Mike Hope.
That is helpful. Lee, nobody wants a sour dog. We're
going to be back with your cause in just a moment.
I wait hundred and eighty ten eighty, or you can
text on ninety two ninety two. Yes, it is good
to have you with us. And my guest is Mark Vetti.
We're heading to the phones now, Laura, good morning.
Speaker 7 (13:38):
I don't know no, Laura, Hi, how can Mark help?
I've got a fifteen year old Purdle b Jeon dreques fustle.
Her anxiety is getting worse as she's getting older, but
she spends hours licking. She's got a few skin tags
which she has licked raw. So I've got medicine for that.
(14:02):
But she locks the Ford furniture, just has always instantly
looking and I'm wondering if that's okay or should I
be getting something.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yeah, So it's a good question. At fifteen, obviously that
we poodle crosses as geometric by now, and that's a
good age, actually a really good age for a dog.
So obviously we're getting into normally by that time, you
start to see symptoms similar to what we see in
human dementia. And so what's happening, of course, is the
(14:36):
you know, the systems we're in out a little bit.
You know, it's equivalent you know to you know, eighty
eighty five plus type age, so you know you're up
in that age class. So licking is often a behavior
that they do as a a kind of anxiety relief
kind of behavior. So that's always worth just thinking about,
(14:57):
is there some type of anxiety that's underpinning And oftentimes
as the world kind of closes down and their senses
get weaker and less able to inform the brain as
to what's going on, then of course things start getting reactive.
I had a Jack Russell who died just last year,
and he was similer and that he's starting any hype
(15:18):
sens of to noises like my phone beeps and you know,
all those type of things. So things totally out of
character for him. And this is a bit like what
we see as we see older people become much more
dependent on their family and the people around them, their
visual duties less, so they start closing their world down.
So all of that's what's happening for your little one.
(15:40):
And so the main thing with that is really to
get veterinary advice with regard to the tags. If are
the tags irritating, are they? And they can often take
tags off quite easily and if that's the point, But
then they won't do that unless they really believe it's
going to solve that problem. Normally, what I try and
(16:01):
do is I try and include quite a few more
enrichment toys, little techniques to get them, you know, finding
and eating their food with having to use their their
thinking a little bit, and so you can get There's
a company called Richmond Toys is come to me in
(16:23):
a minute, outward hound, that's right, And they make enrichment
toys for older dogs. And so what you're trying to
do is give them more stimulation, give them something to
outlet and do that uses their licking and uses those
kind of behaviors that can become obsessive. And the worst
worry about that is they become self mutilating. You know,
(16:44):
it starts calling injury and then they get infection and
so on. So the other thing you might have a
chat to that about is there are some slight anti
anxiety drugs just that you can either use natural ones
or other ones that just take the edge off that
anxiety and it's more than likely slightly anxiety inducing that's
causing those sense of kind of licking behaviors.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Thank you so much for your call, Laura make VITTI
is my guest. This our international renowned animal behaviorist and trainer.
I wait one hundred and eighty ten eighty is able
to call. Feel free to text on ninety ten eight two.
Were getting some really good text Mark. I'm going to
get to those just a moment, but we'll go to
Julie first. Hi, Julie, no.
Speaker 8 (17:26):
Question him Mark. Just a question for Mark is I've
got a little extra rescue pound dog and she has
her create is her safe haven, and sometimes she has
an acident in it, and when I go to clean
it up, she'll come up to me when I'm on
(17:48):
my hands and needs and she'll put her nose right
against my eye, lashes urgently does it on the other side.
And they've never come across anything met before and a
dog just wondering what it could be.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
That's that's certainly affection. And yeah, I mean what happens
when you get down to a dog's level in any context.
We could talk about why she's stalling in a crape,
but we'll talk about that later. But what happens is
when you get down onto all fours for a dog,
that's where the actually would like you to be, because
that's what they think all animals should be doing, is
(18:24):
walking on fours. And you'll notice that the first thing
they do is they get in around your face. And
if you watch a puppy run up to an adult,
they come in and they lick the jowls and roll
over in front of them and then jump all over
their heads and all that type of stuff. So that
licking the jowls is very much the puppy to mother
(18:46):
type behavior. So what's happening is they lick those gews
to appease and to solicit and to love you, you know,
So those licking that around because since she probably has
learned that, she probably don't want her to lick around
your face and into your mouth, which is what they
want to do because they're trying to get you to
regurgitate the food in the ancestral context, So what's happening
(19:07):
is they don't need to do that, but they're the
licking around your face. Normally, they'll learn where you kind
of accept them to do it. And they'll wind back
that licking, but they really can't help themselves. They will.
It's it's a love it's like kissing. You know, they're
kissing you for because they love you and they're engaging
with you. So that's what's happening. Then it's it's as
soon as you get down on fours, first thing is
(19:29):
they want to come in under your face and into
your face and smooch and lick you. That's a very
doggy thing to do, you know.
Speaker 8 (19:36):
That's time. I certainly love her, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, it's an affectionate thing. And just just to remember,
just you're really trying to you don't want your Normally
dogs won't sail in their crate, and that's why you
use great nest crate an ambition, what we call nest
sauling in ambition. And so you put your dog in
your crate, they won't saw in the crate, and then
you can take them out where you set the crate
up so they can get out from a pen out
(20:00):
into the garden. So what you what you're trying to
make sure is that they don't sal their create and
make sure they've got freedom to get out and toilet
whenever they need to. But yeah, that's what that licking
the face means, though she is.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
It's quite sweet, isn't it. Thank you, Julie Mark. I'm
getting a lot of texts that all read like this Mark,
Dogs and cats ideas on how to help them bond Morning,
Can puppies be trained to live with cats?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Cure.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
We have a delightful three year old jack Russell. She
is not bonded with our cats. She likes to chase
three of them. The fourth one does not run, so
she treats him with respect. So there seems to be
this theme here of dogs cats getting on together and
bonding them, especially I suppose obviously if you're bringing one
or the other in when one's already established in the family.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Definitely. Well, one of the good news thing is about
a dog is a is they co evolved with us
over that excuse me, thirty to forty thousand years. Is
you know, in that time they were around our villages
and our settlements, and so one of the things that
by necessity, if they didn't socialize with the other species
in around our villages like our pigs are now, you know,
(21:11):
all the different species, then they wouldn't have lasted long.
So the beauty of it is in that two to
four month period, that exact same window, what we call
their formative period, is the time when you want them
to learn who their extended family is. So you mentioned
a puppy in a village growing up with you know,
pigs and cats and everything else around them, and if
they grow up to that during that two to four
(21:33):
month period properly, then they'll include them in their family
and they'll like them. So it's all about the timing
in regard to socialization with other species, because by the
time you get to four to five months, that socialization
is closing down and then they're determining, well, if something's
not part of my family, then it's fair game to hunt,
(21:54):
you know, and so their predatory behavior starts building, particularly
in the terreas and the hunting breeds of course. But
so the absolutely critical thing in our puppy school, I
have a technique and a video on cross fostering onto
other species. So it's actually a formal part of training
that you need to do and a lot of people
don't really understand this, but it's to understand if you've
(22:16):
got cats in particular, but also other species and so
what I do through that early formative period using a
clicker and a check lead. I use this cross fostering
technique which teaches them to get on and if you
do that in that first two to four months, then
you're honky dory. They'll love the cat and they'll be
a very much part of the family. But it's very
(22:38):
easy to think that you've got that going well, and
then as the pup matures a little bit, there hasn't
been enough contact, and now the cat's running and now
they want to chase it. So this is very typical
of this issue, and it's a common issue, and it's
not just your cat, and you've got to be careful
they can socialize with your cap, you've got to generalize
it to other cats so they don't, you know, harm
(23:02):
the neighbor's cats, and when you're on walks, so you
know obviously that a cat's a prey item for a
dog in the ancestral wild context. So you've got to
cross foster them through that formative period. For those who
have missed that period, then it's worth getting back to me.
I do virtual concerts as well. It gets harder the
(23:23):
longer you leave it, and It doesn't mean it's not treatable,
but it gets harder and it's important to get some
help on that because the cat is at risk. If
you've got a dog, there's a balance between the level
of predatory behavior. Some dogs are just a little bit
pushy with their cats, and some of them only chase
them a little bit when they run, but don't do
(23:45):
anything about it. That's okay, and you can improve that,
but you don't want that dog that as soon as
the cat gets on the run, they're really chasing and
are after them. And so very important issue is cross fostering.
And it's not just the cats. I always do it
to chickens and sheep and horses and go and try
and generalize their ability to socialize with lots of different
(24:07):
things through that formative period. So when you go to
your mate's you know, farmland or whatever, you know, they're
not chasing the sheep or they get out into the
neighborhood in some way, they're not going to chase stock.
So you know, it's really important cross fostering. It's called
and it's to be done in that formative period.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Thanks Mike Blair, thank you so much for waiting.
Speaker 9 (24:27):
Good morning Yeah, good morning, guys. How's it going, Yeah, Adma, Yeah, Hey,
my wife and I've got a seven year old dog.
We've had him since he was a pup. He's a
bit of lab, bit of betty and probably a lot
of scoundrel, you could say. We're looking at moving overseas
(24:48):
or troving overseas for between twelve to six months, and
I just want to know we're the best way to
prepare him for us being away because we are a
quite tight family unit. Are there any ideas you've got?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, yeah, So it's an interesting thing about dogs as
they are really adaptable and they can, you know, do
that type of that type of thing. But you're right,
it's really good to prepare them. And the best thing
to do is to start start with kind of a
day or two and then a weekend and then maybe
(25:22):
a week with them, you know, just just so so
try and find that person before you go and try
and see if you can have a similar kind of
family structure helps, you know, and and obviously the better
the environment that the dog has in terms of space
to exercise and do things. Seven years old starting to
get a little bit older, so it's probably not so
(25:43):
critical that it's you know, really doing a huge amount
of exercise because it's getting a little bit older, mid
age plus past middle age now. So but it really
comes down to the quality of the person and the
ability of them to understand what a dog needs and
just making sure that they're going to understand the needs
of your dog. Let them, Let them spend you know,
(26:06):
just a day or two, just initially, see how that goes,
See how everyone matches up, see if it works. Make
sure they've got a safe environment and they understand basic
dog care rules, you know, how to maintain a dog.
And then it's then I do a couple of days
and then a week and then okay, now it's looking good.
I'm happy with that. Then that the dog normally will
(26:28):
adjust very well. Typically got a bit of lab and
bearding in them. They were both very malieable, lovely, sociable breeds,
so there's a very good chance that the breed contribution
will fit in well and they should adapt to new
people very easily. So it's really the quality of the
person and the quality of the environment that they're going
(26:48):
into and understanding what dogs need. That you're always kind
of testing out to make sure you're not giving it
to a naive dog owner, and you know they don't
understand about traffic and you know, the basic issues of
managing a dog. So those are the main points i'd
say you need to think about just to prepare the
way for your boy to have a happy stay while
you're away.
Speaker 6 (27:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (27:10):
Great.
Speaker 9 (27:10):
Are there any agencies out there with the contact that
would have professionals that would do this?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
I think probably the best thing that is just to
put it out there on I always prefer to try
and put it out into people that know me or
would would be more likely to know me, out into
your own social media, you know, so you've got ideally
friends of family or family would be best. But otherwise,
(27:37):
you know, you can there's lots of platforms that you
can get that message out there. It's really how you
vet those people, you know, that's most important. And it's
important to see them go and see their environment, talk
to them about their dog experience, and make sure that
the bond between the dog and the people is good
(27:57):
from the start. And I always start with a bit
of click and rewarding with a person. I do a
meet and greet technique that I teach, and that and
great technique assures that the first couple of interactions with
that person is going to go well and they're going
to like that person, and then from there it's just
letting them build that bond. The more you've done and
the preparation you've done with the dog and what their
(28:19):
commands are and how they live their life, of course,
make sure that's all recorded for them and they follow
similar types of routines. Dogs are very routine normally and
they do like to have similar kind of routines and
it's worth them knowing what your routines are as well.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Thank you so much for your cool Blair, best of
luck news dog z'db. James, thank you so much for waiting.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Good morning, Good morning James.
Speaker 6 (28:46):
How you done.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Look?
Speaker 6 (28:47):
My question is like, my parents have a sixteen year
old Maltese dog and he seems to be blind and
deaf and he just wanders around, bumps into things. He
still eats, some goes to the trus fine, but whether
(29:09):
or not we need to take them to the vet
and see that quality of life or what needs to
happen from there, I guess.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. It's a tough, tough
question when you get into those latter geriatric years. And
certainly sixteen is a good a really good age for
a dog, and anything over fifteen is exceptional, and so
that's a good going for the little one. But yeah,
you're right, you can see what happens. Just like with humans,
(29:41):
our sensors start to deterior particularly our vision and our
sound and our hearing. Their sense of smell normally goes last,
you know, and that's good news.
Speaker 7 (29:54):
Out.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Yeah, so they use their sense of smell.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
Now.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
The main thing to think about this, there's two issues there. Really.
One is when to make that decision on how to
make it, and that's always a difficult one. But the
most important people there, because it's physiologic mainly, is get
to get that veterinary advice. And it's really important to
rely on their ability to they'll do lots of assessments
(30:21):
on his senses and on as other issues, you know,
the organs and how they're all operating, and you know,
how whether he's having a good quality of life or not.
And so that's very much a veterinary decision. And the
good thing is we can rely on our vets to
help us to make those decisions. But what you can
do to extend their life effectively and to make sure
(30:42):
you get to enjoy them for as long as you
can and them to enjoy life as long as they can.
Is what we tend to do with geriatrics dogs is
to simplify their environment right down, because as you can see,
you know, walking into things and so on. So don't
move things around. Keep the environment very simple and don't
change it. Teach them where things are that are obstacles,
(31:04):
that are risky, and I'll often use a bit of
click and rewarding while I'm teaching them where to go
and how to follow a little route, you know, and
I normally set up a route for them to go
to their food, to go to their bed, to go
to the bedroom, or whatever it is that they're allowed
to do. Keep it really simple. Less than their kind
(31:28):
of expectations on the dog now, you know, because they'll
be wanting less exercise and less kind of stimulation in
one sense, but you know, as much love and attention
and care of course as you can give them, because
they still very much appreciate and enjoy that. And so
it's very much about that intimate contact for these latter years,
rather than getting out on big walks and doing. You know,
(31:50):
obviously that's becomes untenable now, it is.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
It is really difficult, isn't it.
Speaker 9 (31:55):
Mark.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
We had another text from someone and said, look, I
know that this isn't Mark's field, but they're grieving over
the loss of a dog suddenly that had to prematurely
been put down after getting sick and that decision was made,
and they're just they've just got this terrible sort of
guilt and grief as well. It is really tricky to know.
And you're right, you just have to take that advice,
you know from the vets, don't you.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Well, it's the same, but it's very much similar to
the grief that we experience, you know, particularly when you're
really attached to your pet and it becomes a central
part of your life. You absolutely, we know that the
oxytocin that's produced, which is the bonding hormone or the
love hormone when we engage with our dogs is very similar,
in fact, almost exactly the same concentration as with our
(32:38):
kids and family. So they are our family, you know,
there's no doubt about it biologically and hormonally, so so
what we're you know, when we when we suffer that
loss and of course the big problem with dogs at
such a short period of time, isn't it compared to
a human life And so so yeah, you are. We
are grieving, and grief it has to be treated just
(33:00):
like any other grief. It takes time, you need to
work through it. The beauty of the vets and other
support workers around you, you know, we're here to help
and help you get through those types of things. And
that's a significant part of what I do, is working
through grief with people and so on. And that's one
of those things that has been a part of what
(33:23):
I work with humans in dying situations as well, you know,
in hospital and or have done over the years. So
it's very similar. You go through a very similar process.
And for some people, you know, that dog may be
the only thing in their life. You know, it's a
real challenge for some people, and it's recognize it that
it's grief and that needs to go through a process.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Definitely, we're going to come We're going to quick break
and we're going to come back and try and get
a couple of quick calls and Liz, good morning.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Oh good morning, Thanks very much for having me on.
I've just got a little Snauzer. She's sixteen months old,
and she's a cage dog, you know, and not that
she's on new much of the time. But when will
come to the door, you know, when I have visitors,
she's bark, of course, because she's a good watch dog.
But she jumps up on people here on earth. Do
I stop doing that?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, Well, that's a very common problem, and I mean
it's a problem than the aggression problem that can happen
with some dogs that aren't socialized. So that's good that
she's socialized well, and she's at least being positive and
pro social in the way she's relating. But you're right,
people don't like the pups, the dogs jumping up on them.
(34:36):
And when you've got a snauzer, of course, they're a
bit smaller too, and so they're down there and they
want to be up here, you know, up in your face,
loving you, and so that's that's their driver. Of course,
their way of asking to relate and engage is to
jump up and lick and you know, and love you
in that sense. And so that's that's of course, that
(34:58):
asking behavior is doing. What I teachers is a meet
and Greek technique, and that meet and greet techniques formula.
It's on lead initially using your click and reward tools.
You've got your slip collar on and you talk and
your click and reward and so we're working through a
simple little meat and greet technique that allows them to sit,
(35:21):
look up use I use what's called a zen sit
where they look and bond gays or look up into
the eyes of the visitor and we click and reward.
We then get the visitor put their hand out and
we teach them a touch target, so we teach them
to touch the hand with their nose. So we get
them to engage, you know, physically without jumping on them,
and we click and reward that. And we're also of
(35:44):
course clicking rewarding fore feet on the ground, so we
want them to keep their feet on the ground during
that interaction. So that's a big part of what we're
doing generally when we're training them, as we're teaching them
four feet on the ground at all times and engage
and socially without jumping all over us. But it's just
like anything, you need to run them through a sequence
(36:08):
of experiences and training experiences where you do a formal
way of meeting and greeting, so they learn technique. It's
not difficult to learn, and that keeps them in learning states,
so they're actually listening to you. And then we're click
and rewarding when they stay off the visitor and interact
in the appropriate way. And then slowly we start to
(36:28):
teach them how we want them to engage. So when
we say nicely we meet a person, they sit, they
engage with them, they interact with them, keeping their feet
on the ground. We try and get the visitors squad
down and engage with them rather than stay standing. And
you should see things starting to improve if you do
that technique.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Hope that helps. Liz, Mike, thank you so much for
your time this morning. How do people find you?
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Yeah, so the best best way to probably find you
is jump onto my Facebook page, Mark Very Animal Behavior
is Facebook and that's my professional one, and on there
you can if you jump on and put in Facebook
fifty you'll get access to our one of our schools,
Puppy School, Teenage, Puppy School, re Adults School fifty percent
of the first month and jump on there and I
(37:14):
do Facebook live weekly for wonderful.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Thank you so much, thank you, thank you so much.
Mark lovely to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news
talks it'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the carry Wood and Morning's podcast from
Newstalk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Good morning, Welcome to this mars Adiki Morning show here
on news Talks dB. I'm Francisco Vudkin with you until
midday to day. We have got a holiday special for
you coming up on the show. After eleven, I'll be
joined by brain Fit coach Jude Walter to talk us
through staying on top of our brain health. We spend
a lot of time looking after our health, don't we,
(00:33):
But how often do we actually think about looking after
our brains. We're going to talk about whether it really
is a case of use it or lose it when
it comes to our brains, and spoiler alert, it is yeah,
gotta use it at all ages. So we're going to
be talking about that after eleven at ten are familiar
voices back with us, Allison Gofton. Now we are constantly
(00:56):
talking about the cost of living and grocery prices going up,
So Allison is going to have some tips and tricks
to make your dollars go further at the supermarket and
answer any questions that you have. Kicking us off this holthough,
we have Mark Vetti. Mark is an internationally renowned animal behaviorist, trainer, educator,
author and TV personality and founder of Dogs in a
(01:17):
Dog Training program. Mark is here to take your calls
about your pet's behavior. So you can call now on
eight hundred eighty ten eighty or text on ninety two
ninety two. And good morning to you Mark.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Hi, Francesca, how are you.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I'm really good, so good to have you with us.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Great, great to be here on Marto Riki weekend. A
lovely day down here at waa Bee is just exquisite.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Oh fantastic. It is a beautiful day in Auckland. I
hope it is the same around the country. A friend
of mine, it's really interesting that I'm talking to you.
I feel like it's a sign, because a friend of
mine sent through some photos of these absolutely adorable puppies
that her dog has just had. I mean, you know,
it's hard not to photograph for puppy well right, but
(02:03):
you know they get you, and so then of course
I'm just sitting there going, oh, you know, how am
I going to convince the rest of the family. Well,
it actually be very easy to convince the rest of
the family to get a puppy. It's just my partner
who was well aware of the fact that all our
hedges don't have you know, fences in them, and and
he loves his lawn. But I was thinking, actually, is
(02:23):
winter a good time to get a puppy because they
do require to be inside a little bit, don't they?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Or yeah, well, it varies a little bit in terms
of it's probably easier in many ways to do it
in the summer because the weather issues, you know, getting
out in the mudin and all that other stuff. But
really it's not so critical as exactly when you do it.
It's more important to do it at the right time
and the puppies life, you know, you know, get the
(02:51):
puppy at the right time in their life. And of
course that's eight weeks and so you know, the most
important thing is make sure you get your puppy at
the right time. You can kind of deal with weather
and other issues, but it's what you do in that
first two months, the forwarded period of the dog's life
that is absolutely critical. And you know, eighty percent of
the brain wires up through that time, so that's the
(03:12):
time when you want to be wirying it up in
other words, training them and socializing them and just just
moving on from there then into teenagehood and adultthood. But
it's just making sure you get them at the right
time in that early stage, do the right things that
need to be done at that time, and that's basically
most importantly socialization and some basic training and then yeah,
(03:35):
then you're going to have a great pup and how
you fit them into your life and into your weather,
in your yard and so on. Then we go into
great detail and our books and training schools about how
to set them up. It's not rocket science, but really
good to do it the right way.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And of course you're here to help our callers today
as well. If you do happen to have a pup
and you are but worried about the training and the socializing,
do feel free to give us a call. I wait,
one hundred eighty ten eighty Tex ninety two ninety two.
That's what Mark's here for. So Mark, get them around
the eight week mark. The next two months that you
have them is crucial, as you say, how you train
(04:10):
them and how you socialize them. So what kind of
training and socializing is going on there?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Well, I mean the important thing is if you think
back to the ancestral wolf, you know, that was the
ancestor to the dog and co evolved with us for
forty thousand years and became the dog. And and so
we're always looking back at what the ancestral behaviors were
during that period and the ancestral wolf's life and then
later the dog's life, and that's the most important thing
(04:37):
that's happening in the two to four month period. They've
just let mum and come out to the pack and
that's you, the family, and so they're bonding and joining
up with you during that two to four month period,
and that's exactly what they're doing with their pack and
the wild. And by four to five months they head
off because the wolf was a migratory hunter, so they
(05:00):
hunker down to have the letter, and then at the
end around four months, they all head off again and
their life is about migratory hunting. So that's the way
it evolved. And of course that's over many millions of years,
so what we now so now we should know that
this is the time when they're socializing and learning who
(05:21):
their extended family is. That's the most important job during
that two to four month period, and of course it's
exactly what we want them to do is to learn
who their extended family is. And we want to make
sure that that extended family includes lots of different people,
different races, different age classes, all of those things. If
you isolate them, they'll become discriminating and they'll only like
(05:43):
what they've grown up with. So make sure you extend
them out into a broader group of people and dogs
and other species. You've got three jobs with socialization, people, dogs,
and other species, and so that's really your focus on
that first part. And building a bond with the family
and particularly their initial the main owner or trainer if
(06:05):
there's one, and it's always good to have a broad
family group that are training, not just one, but they
will bond tend to bond with one more strongly, and
so that's really your main job. And then building what
I call a shared language over that time, which are
your commands. You know, your cues that you're going to
use to relate to the dog and relate them to
the world. So that's really what your main job is.
(06:28):
We go through with our Puppy School in great detail
all the different most important things, how to house train,
how to develop bite inhibition, how to learn to bond
with you how to you know, the type of richment
products you should have, right through to sound desensitization and
(06:49):
avoiding phobias and you know, those types of things. They're
trying to really broaden the dog's ability to learn. I
hear you. You've got a neuroscientist sign of it later
talking about the brain. Well, the brain is very much
what we're working with as a pup to really broaden
their ability to deal with the world, to deal with
novel things, to deal with noise, to deal with traffic.
(07:12):
You know, these aren't things dogs evolved to learn about,
but they're very capable to learn about them.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And that's why Mike everybody says it's like having another
child when you get that. Puffy leads into the phone, Lee,
good morning.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
Good morning. How are you. We've We've got a four
year old golden lab. He's a lovely dog, very athletic,
does everything right, except he pulls on the lead all
the time, and we just we've been trying all sorts
of things to try and stop them doing that, but
he just pulls all the time when you're taking him
for a walk. So yes, difficult, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Really really for that. Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely it's a
classic problem. I mean labs, of course, being so highly
social and normally anyway and keen and interested in rushing
up to people and other dogs, you know that that
everything and anything. And of course there's a strong scent
dog there being one hundred.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Breed, also very athletic. He's a very strong dog too, yes.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yes, well, I mean on the school, what we teach
in particular is the joining up technique right from the start,
right from and that doesn't matter what age you start that.
So joining up is my signature technique about building the bond.
And what I did was looked at the ancestral wolf.
I studied wolf behavior for a long time, and when
you look at the way they bond with their pack
(08:38):
and their and their family, what I've done is mimic
those techniques. And one of the main things that happens
for a mammal as they're developing in the early stages
is what's called the follower response. The follower response, I
mean you can see it even in a sheep walking
over the hill with the lamb at heel, you know,
And so that's exactly what we're after to build a
(08:58):
heel command on a dog, and so I use click
of training as my main tool. Obviously we go on onto.
We also have leads. We'll have a slip lead, and
we might in this case for him, look at whether
we use a halty collar or a gentle leader. If
he's a real puller. That's a good way to gain control.
And it's more a management tool, but it's a really
(09:21):
useful tool in the interim while you're trying to teach
a dog like that to walk at hell, but getting
on you've got to hold that effect. Do you find
that effect?
Speaker 6 (09:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (09:33):
It does. Yeah, you just got to keep going for
a long time whether it do or yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Well, I mean if if you pair that with a clicker,
you'll see, you know. And I've offered a an opportunity
for to jump on the school if they want to
punch in Facebook fifty as your code and you can
jump on for fifty percent for the first month, and
what you can do is follow that. So in that case,
what we're doing with lead walking is want you to
(10:00):
do the joining up technique and you'll you'll learn that
very quickly, and that's a very effici way to get
the heel command. But then I move to what I
call the embolical work, the mbolicas where I clip the
lead to my hip, doing this inside and a controlled
environment initially because he will pull you over outside of
the moment, and using the clicker. I use the clicker
(10:21):
to shape his behavior to move with me, stop, lie
down when I stop, look to me for direction. I
use what's called a bond gaze as well, where they
look up at your eyes you click and reward them.
I don't know whether you know what a clicker is.
With a clicker as a noise making little noise making gadget,
you hold your hand and you always pair food with that.
(10:42):
And when you use a clicker, it just increases the
learning ability of a dog five to ten times. So
it's a very rapid way for the dog to stay
in learning state and for you to accurately mark the
behavior that you want them to do. And therein lies
the problem for most dogs. Two things. For a labrador,
they're out of learning state when they're hyper excited like that.
(11:03):
And so if they're not learning state, they're to learn
how to do that thing and change their behavior. So
we want them in learning state, so we use a clicker.
We've got a pouch on, we've got a slip collar
and or a faulty depending on which one helpfully the
dog is, and we work with that clicker tool. We've
got that nice what it call onmbolical response where they're
(11:24):
moving with you. After a little while, you won't need
the lead. The dog moves with you, stots some new stock,
lies down, looks up at you, and the dog's in
learning state while he's doing those behaviors, which is the
critical issue about three teaching a new behavior. We're teaching
this behavior to get control. So the other thing is
I use in eighty twenty rule when I'm walking, I
(11:44):
normally run a dog like that on a long line
or a retractable lead as well, And so it makes
a lot About eighty percent of the time the dog
gets to sniff and check things out, and do you
know what a labrador is going to want to do,
And the most importantly, you know, with a million to
two million times better sense of smell. And we've got
obviously old faction and the desire to smell things is
(12:05):
really high and a dog and so let them let
them manifest that and express it and do it. But
at the same time, twenty percent of the time you're
working them when you get near roads, when you get
near to situation, you put them into work and make
sure they're doing what you need them to do when
you need that control. So it's often a good idea
to alternate between those two things, not just you know,
(12:28):
you see a lot of people just working, working, working,
and they sour their dog of the work and the
dog doesn't get to express itself as a dog. So
you know, those are the tools and techniques that I use. Initially,
you'll notice that we use a slip line and a clicker.
So with the slip lead, it's pressure on it's a
bit uncomfortable as they pull out on it. When they
(12:50):
come off the pressure, when we ask them to come
off the pressure, we click and reward them. That's called
contrast training. So you're always offering a dog contrast for
it to learn something new. And so by doing that
you'll learn the dog will learn much better to walk
on lead calmly and with those techniques. And there's several
others that go in relation to the heel command, but
(13:15):
that's certainly something that's worth getting good control over. And
typical lab that they're going to be bully, that's not.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Unusual it's amazing help. Thank you so much, Mike Hope.
That is helpful. Lee, nobody wants a sour dog. We're
going to be back with your cause in just a moment.
I wait hundred and eighty ten eighty, or you can
text on ninety two ninety two. Yes, it is good
to have you with us. And my guest is Mark Vetti.
We're heading to the phones now, Laura, good morning.
Speaker 7 (13:38):
I don't know no, Laura, Hi, how can Mark help?
I've got a fifteen year old Purdle b Jeon dreques fustle.
Her anxiety is getting worse as she's getting older, but
she spends hours licking. She's got a few skin tags
which she has licked raw. So I've got medicine for that.
(14:02):
But she locks the Ford furniture, just has always instantly
looking and I'm wondering if that's okay or should I
be getting something.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yeah, So it's a good question. At fifteen, obviously that
we poodle crosses as geometric by now, and that's a
good age, actually a really good age for a dog.
So obviously we're getting into normally by that time, you
start to see symptoms similar to what we see in
human dementia. And so what's happening, of course, is the
(14:36):
you know, the systems we're in out a little bit.
You know, it's equivalent you know to you know, eighty
eighty five plus type age, so you know you're up
in that age class. So licking is often a behavior
that they do as a a kind of anxiety relief
kind of behavior. So that's always worth just thinking about,
(14:57):
is there some type of anxiety that's underpinning And oftentimes
as the world kind of closes down and their senses
get weaker and less able to inform the brain as
to what's going on, then of course things start getting reactive.
I had a Jack Russell who died just last year,
and he was similer and that he's starting any hype
(15:18):
sens of to noises like my phone beeps and you know,
all those type of things. So things totally out of
character for him. And this is a bit like what
we see as we see older people become much more
dependent on their family and the people around them, their
visual duties less, so they start closing their world down.
So all of that's what's happening for your little one.
(15:40):
And so the main thing with that is really to
get veterinary advice with regard to the tags. If are
the tags irritating, are they? And they can often take
tags off quite easily and if that's the point, But
then they won't do that unless they really believe it's
going to solve that problem. Normally, what I try and
(16:01):
do is I try and include quite a few more
enrichment toys, little techniques to get them, you know, finding
and eating their food with having to use their their
thinking a little bit, and so you can get There's
a company called Richmond Toys is come to me in
(16:23):
a minute, outward hound, that's right, And they make enrichment
toys for older dogs. And so what you're trying to
do is give them more stimulation, give them something to
outlet and do that uses their licking and uses those
kind of behaviors that can become obsessive. And the worst
worry about that is they become self mutilating. You know,
(16:44):
it starts calling injury and then they get infection and
so on. So the other thing you might have a
chat to that about is there are some slight anti
anxiety drugs just that you can either use natural ones
or other ones that just take the edge off that
anxiety and it's more than likely slightly anxiety inducing that's
causing those sense of kind of licking behaviors.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Thank you so much for your call, Laura make VITTI
is my guest. This our international renowned animal behaviorist and trainer.
I wait one hundred and eighty ten eighty is able
to call. Feel free to text on ninety ten eight two.
Were getting some really good text Mark. I'm going to
get to those just a moment, but we'll go to
Julie first. Hi, Julie, no.
Speaker 8 (17:26):
Question him Mark. Just a question for Mark is I've
got a little extra rescue pound dog and she has
her create is her safe haven, and sometimes she has
an acident in it, and when I go to clean
it up, she'll come up to me when I'm on
(17:48):
my hands and needs and she'll put her nose right
against my eye, lashes urgently does it on the other side.
And they've never come across anything met before and a
dog just wondering what it could be.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
That's that's certainly affection. And yeah, I mean what happens
when you get down to a dog's level in any context.
We could talk about why she's stalling in a crape,
but we'll talk about that later. But what happens is
when you get down onto all fours for a dog,
that's where the actually would like you to be, because
that's what they think all animals should be doing, is
(18:24):
walking on fours. And you'll notice that the first thing
they do is they get in around your face. And
if you watch a puppy run up to an adult,
they come in and they lick the jowls and roll
over in front of them and then jump all over
their heads and all that type of stuff. So that
licking the jowls is very much the puppy to mother
(18:46):
type behavior. So what's happening is they lick those gews
to appease and to solicit and to love you, you know,
So those licking that around because since she probably has
learned that, she probably don't want her to lick around
your face and into your mouth, which is what they
want to do because they're trying to get you to
regurgitate the food in the ancestral context, So what's happening
(19:07):
is they don't need to do that, but they're the
licking around your face. Normally, they'll learn where you kind
of accept them to do it. And they'll wind back
that licking, but they really can't help themselves. They will.
It's it's a love it's like kissing. You know, they're
kissing you for because they love you and they're engaging
with you. So that's what's happening. Then it's it's as
soon as you get down on fours, first thing is
(19:29):
they want to come in under your face and into
your face and smooch and lick you. That's a very
doggy thing to do, you know.
Speaker 8 (19:36):
That's time. I certainly love her, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, it's an affectionate thing. And just just to remember,
just you're really trying to you don't want your Normally
dogs won't sail in their crate, and that's why you
use great nest crate an ambition, what we call nest
sauling in ambition. And so you put your dog in
your crate, they won't saw in the crate, and then
you can take them out where you set the crate
up so they can get out from a pen out
(20:00):
into the garden. So what you what you're trying to
make sure is that they don't sal their create and
make sure they've got freedom to get out and toilet
whenever they need to. But yeah, that's what that licking
the face means, though she is.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
It's quite sweet, isn't it. Thank you, Julie Mark. I'm
getting a lot of texts that all read like this Mark,
Dogs and cats ideas on how to help them bond Morning,
Can puppies be trained to live with cats?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Cure.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
We have a delightful three year old jack Russell. She
is not bonded with our cats. She likes to chase
three of them. The fourth one does not run, so
she treats him with respect. So there seems to be
this theme here of dogs cats getting on together and
bonding them, especially I suppose obviously if you're bringing one
or the other in when one's already established in the family.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Definitely. Well, one of the good news thing is about
a dog is a is they co evolved with us
over that excuse me, thirty to forty thousand years. Is
you know, in that time they were around our villages
and our settlements, and so one of the things that
by necessity, if they didn't socialize with the other species
in around our villages like our pigs are now, you know,
(21:11):
all the different species, then they wouldn't have lasted long.
So the beauty of it is in that two to
four month period, that exact same window, what we call
their formative period, is the time when you want them
to learn who their extended family is. So you mentioned
a puppy in a village growing up with you know,
pigs and cats and everything else around them, and if
they grow up to that during that two to four
(21:33):
month period properly, then they'll include them in their family
and they'll like them. So it's all about the timing
in regard to socialization with other species, because by the
time you get to four to five months, that socialization
is closing down and then they're determining, well, if something's
not part of my family, then it's fair game to hunt,
(21:54):
you know, and so their predatory behavior starts building, particularly
in the terreas and the hunting breeds of course. But
so the absolutely critical thing in our puppy school, I
have a technique and a video on cross fostering onto
other species. So it's actually a formal part of training
that you need to do and a lot of people
don't really understand this, but it's to understand if you've
(22:16):
got cats in particular, but also other species and so
what I do through that early formative period using a
clicker and a check lead. I use this cross fostering
technique which teaches them to get on and if you
do that in that first two to four months, then
you're honky dory. They'll love the cat and they'll be
a very much part of the family. But it's very
(22:38):
easy to think that you've got that going well, and
then as the pup matures a little bit, there hasn't
been enough contact, and now the cat's running and now
they want to chase it. So this is very typical
of this issue, and it's a common issue, and it's
not just your cat, and you've got to be careful
they can socialize with your cap, you've got to generalize
it to other cats so they don't, you know, harm
(23:02):
the neighbor's cats, and when you're on walks, so you
know obviously that a cat's a prey item for a
dog in the ancestral wild context. So you've got to
cross foster them through that formative period. For those who
have missed that period, then it's worth getting back to me.
I do virtual concerts as well. It gets harder the
(23:23):
longer you leave it, and It doesn't mean it's not treatable,
but it gets harder and it's important to get some
help on that because the cat is at risk. If
you've got a dog, there's a balance between the level
of predatory behavior. Some dogs are just a little bit
pushy with their cats, and some of them only chase
them a little bit when they run, but don't do
(23:45):
anything about it. That's okay, and you can improve that,
but you don't want that dog that as soon as
the cat gets on the run, they're really chasing and
are after them. And so very important issue is cross fostering.
And it's not just the cats. I always do it
to chickens and sheep and horses and go and try
and generalize their ability to socialize with lots of different
(24:07):
things through that formative period. So when you go to
your mate's you know, farmland or whatever, you know, they're
not chasing the sheep or they get out into the
neighborhood in some way, they're not going to chase stock.
So you know, it's really important cross fostering. It's called
and it's to be done in that formative period.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Thanks Mike Blair, thank you so much for waiting.
Speaker 9 (24:27):
Good morning Yeah, good morning, guys. How's it going, Yeah, Adma, Yeah, Hey,
my wife and I've got a seven year old dog.
We've had him since he was a pup. He's a
bit of lab, bit of betty and probably a lot
of scoundrel, you could say. We're looking at moving overseas
(24:48):
or troving overseas for between twelve to six months, and
I just want to know we're the best way to
prepare him for us being away because we are a
quite tight family unit. Are there any ideas you've got?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, yeah, So it's an interesting thing about dogs as
they are really adaptable and they can, you know, do
that type of that type of thing. But you're right,
it's really good to prepare them. And the best thing
to do is to start start with kind of a
day or two and then a weekend and then maybe
(25:22):
a week with them, you know, just just so so
try and find that person before you go and try
and see if you can have a similar kind of
family structure helps, you know, and and obviously the better
the environment that the dog has in terms of space
to exercise and do things. Seven years old starting to
get a little bit older, so it's probably not so
(25:43):
critical that it's you know, really doing a huge amount
of exercise because it's getting a little bit older, mid
age plus past middle age now. So but it really
comes down to the quality of the person and the
ability of them to understand what a dog needs and
just making sure that they're going to understand the needs
of your dog. Let them, Let them spend you know,
(26:06):
just a day or two, just initially, see how that goes,
See how everyone matches up, see if it works. Make
sure they've got a safe environment and they understand basic
dog care rules, you know, how to maintain a dog.
And then it's then I do a couple of days
and then a week and then okay, now it's looking good.
I'm happy with that. Then that the dog normally will
(26:28):
adjust very well. Typically got a bit of lab and
bearding in them. They were both very malieable, lovely, sociable breeds,
so there's a very good chance that the breed contribution
will fit in well and they should adapt to new
people very easily. So it's really the quality of the
person and the quality of the environment that they're going
(26:48):
into and understanding what dogs need. That you're always kind
of testing out to make sure you're not giving it
to a naive dog owner, and you know they don't
understand about traffic and you know, the basic issues of
managing a dog. So those are the main points i'd
say you need to think about just to prepare the
way for your boy to have a happy stay while
you're away.
Speaker 6 (27:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (27:10):
Great.
Speaker 9 (27:10):
Are there any agencies out there with the contact that
would have professionals that would do this?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
I think probably the best thing that is just to
put it out there on I always prefer to try
and put it out into people that know me or
would would be more likely to know me, out into
your own social media, you know, so you've got ideally
friends of family or family would be best. But otherwise,
(27:37):
you know, you can there's lots of platforms that you
can get that message out there. It's really how you
vet those people, you know, that's most important. And it's
important to see them go and see their environment, talk
to them about their dog experience, and make sure that
the bond between the dog and the people is good
(27:57):
from the start. And I always start with a bit
of click and rewarding with a person. I do a
meet and greet technique that I teach, and that and
great technique assures that the first couple of interactions with
that person is going to go well and they're going
to like that person, and then from there it's just
letting them build that bond. The more you've done and
the preparation you've done with the dog and what their
(28:19):
commands are and how they live their life, of course,
make sure that's all recorded for them and they follow
similar types of routines. Dogs are very routine normally and
they do like to have similar kind of routines and
it's worth them knowing what your routines are as well.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Thank you so much for your cool Blair, best of
luck news dog z'db. James, thank you so much for waiting.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Good morning, Good morning James.
Speaker 6 (28:46):
How you done.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Look?
Speaker 6 (28:47):
My question is like, my parents have a sixteen year
old Maltese dog and he seems to be blind and
deaf and he just wanders around, bumps into things. He
still eats, some goes to the trus fine, but whether
(29:09):
or not we need to take them to the vet
and see that quality of life or what needs to
happen from there, I guess.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. It's a tough, tough
question when you get into those latter geriatric years. And
certainly sixteen is a good a really good age for
a dog, and anything over fifteen is exceptional, and so
that's a good going for the little one. But yeah,
you're right, you can see what happens. Just like with humans,
(29:41):
our sensors start to deterior particularly our vision and our
sound and our hearing. Their sense of smell normally goes last,
you know, and that's good news.
Speaker 7 (29:54):
Out.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Yeah, so they use their sense of smell.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
Now.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
The main thing to think about this, there's two issues there. Really.
One is when to make that decision on how to
make it, and that's always a difficult one. But the
most important people there, because it's physiologic mainly, is get
to get that veterinary advice. And it's really important to
rely on their ability to they'll do lots of assessments
(30:21):
on his senses and on as other issues, you know,
the organs and how they're all operating, and you know,
how whether he's having a good quality of life or not.
And so that's very much a veterinary decision. And the
good thing is we can rely on our vets to
help us to make those decisions. But what you can
do to extend their life effectively and to make sure
(30:42):
you get to enjoy them for as long as you
can and them to enjoy life as long as they can.
Is what we tend to do with geriatrics dogs is
to simplify their environment right down, because as you can see,
you know, walking into things and so on. So don't
move things around. Keep the environment very simple and don't
change it. Teach them where things are that are obstacles,
(31:04):
that are risky, and I'll often use a bit of
click and rewarding while I'm teaching them where to go
and how to follow a little route, you know, and
I normally set up a route for them to go
to their food, to go to their bed, to go
to the bedroom, or whatever it is that they're allowed
to do. Keep it really simple. Less than their kind
(31:28):
of expectations on the dog now, you know, because they'll
be wanting less exercise and less kind of stimulation in
one sense, but you know, as much love and attention
and care of course as you can give them, because
they still very much appreciate and enjoy that. And so
it's very much about that intimate contact for these latter years,
rather than getting out on big walks and doing. You know,
(31:50):
obviously that's becomes untenable now, it is.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
It is really difficult, isn't it.
Speaker 9 (31:55):
Mark.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
We had another text from someone and said, look, I
know that this isn't Mark's field, but they're grieving over
the loss of a dog suddenly that had to prematurely
been put down after getting sick and that decision was made,
and they're just they've just got this terrible sort of
guilt and grief as well. It is really tricky to know.
And you're right, you just have to take that advice,
you know from the vets, don't you.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Well, it's the same, but it's very much similar to
the grief that we experience, you know, particularly when you're
really attached to your pet and it becomes a central
part of your life. You absolutely, we know that the
oxytocin that's produced, which is the bonding hormone or the
love hormone when we engage with our dogs is very similar,
in fact, almost exactly the same concentration as with our
(32:38):
kids and family. So they are our family, you know,
there's no doubt about it biologically and hormonally, so so
what we're you know, when we when we suffer that
loss and of course the big problem with dogs at
such a short period of time, isn't it compared to
a human life And so so yeah, you are. We
are grieving, and grief it has to be treated just
(33:00):
like any other grief. It takes time, you need to
work through it. The beauty of the vets and other
support workers around you, you know, we're here to help
and help you get through those types of things. And
that's a significant part of what I do, is working
through grief with people and so on. And that's one
of those things that has been a part of what
(33:23):
I work with humans in dying situations as well, you know,
in hospital and or have done over the years. So
it's very similar. You go through a very similar process.
And for some people, you know, that dog may be
the only thing in their life. You know, it's a
real challenge for some people, and it's recognize it that
it's grief and that needs to go through a process.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Definitely, we're going to come We're going to quick break
and we're going to come back and try and get
a couple of quick calls and Liz, good morning.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Oh good morning, Thanks very much for having me on.
I've just got a little Snauzer. She's sixteen months old,
and she's a cage dog, you know, and not that
she's on new much of the time. But when will
come to the door, you know, when I have visitors,
she's bark, of course, because she's a good watch dog.
But she jumps up on people here on earth. Do
I stop doing that?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, Well, that's a very common problem, and I mean
it's a problem than the aggression problem that can happen
with some dogs that aren't socialized. So that's good that
she's socialized well, and she's at least being positive and
pro social in the way she's relating. But you're right,
people don't like the pups, the dogs jumping up on them.
(34:36):
And when you've got a snauzer, of course, they're a
bit smaller too, and so they're down there and they
want to be up here, you know, up in your face,
loving you, and so that's that's their driver. Of course,
their way of asking to relate and engage is to
jump up and lick and you know, and love you
in that sense. And so that's that's of course, that
(34:58):
asking behavior is doing. What I teachers is a meet
and Greek technique, and that meet and greet techniques formula.
It's on lead initially using your click and reward tools.
You've got your slip collar on and you talk and
your click and reward and so we're working through a
simple little meat and greet technique that allows them to sit,
(35:21):
look up use I use what's called a zen sit
where they look and bond gays or look up into
the eyes of the visitor and we click and reward.
We then get the visitor put their hand out and
we teach them a touch target, so we teach them
to touch the hand with their nose. So we get
them to engage, you know, physically without jumping on them,
and we click and reward that. And we're also of
(35:44):
course clicking rewarding fore feet on the ground, so we
want them to keep their feet on the ground during
that interaction. So that's a big part of what we're
doing generally when we're training them, as we're teaching them
four feet on the ground at all times and engage
and socially without jumping all over us. But it's just
like anything, you need to run them through a sequence
(36:08):
of experiences and training experiences where you do a formal
way of meeting and greeting, so they learn technique. It's
not difficult to learn, and that keeps them in learning states,
so they're actually listening to you. And then we're click
and rewarding when they stay off the visitor and interact
in the appropriate way. And then slowly we start to
(36:28):
teach them how we want them to engage. So when
we say nicely we meet a person, they sit, they
engage with them, they interact with them, keeping their feet
on the ground. We try and get the visitors squad
down and engage with them rather than stay standing. And
you should see things starting to improve if you do
that technique.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Hope that helps. Liz, Mike, thank you so much for
your time this morning. How do people find you?
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Yeah, so the best best way to probably find you
is jump onto my Facebook page, Mark Very Animal Behavior
is Facebook and that's my professional one, and on there
you can if you jump on and put in Facebook
fifty you'll get access to our one of our schools,
Puppy School, Teenage, Puppy School, re Adults School fifty percent
of the first month and jump on there and I
(37:14):
do Facebook live weekly for wonderful.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Thank you so much, thank you, thank you so much.
Mark lovely to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news
talks it'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow the
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